i made medic's overheal limitless

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  • Опубликовано: 21 май 2022
  • Music: BananaSlug - Isolation & Dusk ( / user-426347780 )
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    [ hud / crosshairs / hitsound / killsound / gfx cfg ]
    big thanks to:
    doomy for plugin!
    old title:
    "what if medic overheals had no limit? tf2 gameplay experiment"
    FAQ:
    Q: How did you make that? What editing software do you use?
    A: I use Adobe Photoshop, Premiere Pro & After Effects. Photoshop for image editing and thumbnails. Premiere Pro for compositing and After Effects for motion graphics (the fancy animations).
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Комментарии • 1,1 тыс.

  • @shounic
    @shounic  2 года назад +2409

    (the experiment is over, you can't play it anymore. there is no server)

    • @rappah.experience
      @rappah.experience 2 года назад +4

      Nice

    • @Vex2not
      @Vex2not 2 года назад +2

      Nice

    • @hamstreak5591
      @hamstreak5591 2 года назад +9

      Hey Shounic, I have an idea. How would I go about talking to you about this idea?

    • @douk3395
      @douk3395 2 года назад

      no i won't play your shitty server

    • @gamainiax
      @gamainiax 2 года назад +1

      Nice

  • @willstob
    @willstob 2 года назад +5215

    "The Spy wound up being a support class, trying to take people down with sneaky backstabs."
    So, a Spy?

    • @hunlepto2239
      @hunlepto2239 2 года назад +165

      Unless it would be Swipez.

    • @sposeidon2374
      @sposeidon2374 2 года назад +290

      @@hunlepto2239 or any other spy main that actually knows how players move

    • @vivelespatat2670
      @vivelespatat2670 2 года назад +62

      @@hunlepto2239 Swipez the power class

    • @NetworkSneed
      @NetworkSneed Год назад +201

      Hmm yes. The spy here is made out of spy.

    • @megumin9020
      @megumin9020 Год назад +91

      Tf2 player remarking that spy is actually a class that is not agresive

  • @MyWaifuNow
    @MyWaifuNow 2 года назад +1669

    "he ended up being a support role that would come in for surprise backstabs"
    ah yes the spy is made of spy

    • @realdragon
      @realdragon Год назад +152

      Spy tactics changed drastically from sneaky backstabs to sneaky backstabs

    • @Jeffrey_LOL-vi9wy
      @Jeffrey_LOL-vi9wy 6 месяцев назад +7

      Sneaky-er backstab

    • @TinyDeskEngineer
      @TinyDeskEngineer 2 месяца назад +1

      They have to be sneakier due to the decreased amount of enemy players busy being dead

  • @Jpmrocks7
    @Jpmrocks7 2 года назад +5231

    To be honest, I'm not too surprised by the phlog being on top. The phlog's biggest weakness is that the pyro cant defend himself. He has no airblast, or he essentially has to facetank everything, or stealth as hard as spy. Taking away the concern of HP makes the phlog easily the best choice. This is also why phlog pyros usually are always with a medic, because they really struggle when alone.

    • @henryambrose8607
      @henryambrose8607 2 года назад +362

      Quick fix was also unsurprising. Its downside was the overheal cap, and with how important knockback becomes with high-health pyros, the quick fix uber is more important than invuln.

    • @bruschetta7711
      @bruschetta7711 2 года назад +100

      In Pub phlog is genuelly one of the strongest weapons and can make pyro easily the best for uber pushes
      Only counter would be knockback, surprised there weren't many Demoman with loose cannon, it is great for pushing back enemies, coupled with a barrage of bullets coming from sentries they could make a wall
      However the quickfix specifically negates knockback, so as soon as a medic uses the charge it's over

    • @WafflesMoguMogu
      @WafflesMoguMogu 2 года назад +4

      I didn't know u play Tf2 jpmrocks

    • @SpectreSkirt
      @SpectreSkirt 2 года назад +4

      i honestly thought soldier or demo would be on top, both having high mobility at the cost of HP and insane blast damage.

    • @Dark_Slayer3000
      @Dark_Slayer3000 2 года назад +15

      @@bruschetta7711 it's because the quick fix übers deny knockback

  • @DaxMarko
    @DaxMarko 2 года назад +3243

    "If people look at you, you can't backstab them"
    Spy mains: "Hon hon that's where you're wrong sir"

    • @davisdf3064
      @davisdf3064 2 года назад +358

      TF2's hitboxes: FUCK IT! I am looking back now.

    • @jamesbourbon5129
      @jamesbourbon5129 2 года назад +39

      you just bad lol, facestab almost never happen , except of bad ping or interp

    • @joeyjonquantaviusjr9927
      @joeyjonquantaviusjr9927 2 года назад +297

      @@jamesbourbon5129 well done, you’ve described every interaction I had with a
      Spy “main”. Bad ping and cl interp

    • @sektaxd
      @sektaxd 2 года назад +67

      @@joeyjonquantaviusjr9927 you know some trickstabs dont need any ping or interp abuse to pull off so i think it just depends what spy main you are talking to

    • @zappodude7591
      @zappodude7591 2 года назад +51

      Actually what I've found more common than straight facestabs is "scalp-stabs" or "shoulder-stabs" where the spy is definitely not behind you, with even the backstab animation visible when you die, but maybe it wouldn't be with the default FOV of 70. It's possible the janky hit detection is partially due to valve testing the game at 70 FOV.

  • @MartinGenerations
    @MartinGenerations 2 года назад +3901

    Also, Quick-fix has immunity to knockback, so Pyros cannot airblast you at all.

  • @azse8524
    @azse8524 2 года назад +324

    "he ended up being a support class that came in for surprising backstabs"
    HMMM ALMOST AS IF THAT WAS HIS INTENDED ROLE

  • @bernardonegri5416
    @bernardonegri5416 2 года назад +1951

    Phlog pyro also has a major advantage over heavy: he is faster. Pyro's normal limitation of not being able to approach without getting wrecked by anyone with hitscan is fixed because he has thousands of hp. Since everyone has thousands of hp, charging the phlog is super easy.

    • @Markiz93
      @Markiz93 2 года назад +18

      Imagiene what if the Heavy use Natascha and he will be able to slow down a Pyro.

    • @bernardonegri5416
      @bernardonegri5416 2 года назад +29

      @@Markiz93 Then another pyro shows up.

    • @asan4628
      @asan4628 2 года назад

      Pyro>Heavy

    • @shoeofobama6091
      @shoeofobama6091 2 года назад +1

      also, demo probably should have taken precedence, demo has the higher EFFECTIVE dps

    • @bernardonegri5416
      @bernardonegri5416 2 года назад +23

      @@shoeofobama6091 In normal TF2, he has the highest damage output. His long reload means he might not be able to get anything done, even after using and hitting all 12 explosives. No reload weapons are where it is at.

  • @yoshifan2334
    @yoshifan2334 2 года назад +704

    Also something that should be noted is the oft overlooked stats of flamethrowers that decreases healing recurved while on fire, so in a realistic situation of two combos running into each other, the phlog has the additional advantage of hamstringing enemy regeneration during the fight

    • @VagueCastle649
      @VagueCastle649 2 года назад +2

      It also bonks vacc ubers.

    • @luigifan4585
      @luigifan4585 2 года назад +10

      @@VagueCastle649 it's still resisting damage since the penalty doesn't completely negate Vacc res

    • @mr.pickle6487
      @mr.pickle6487 2 года назад +2

      @@gab936 but there's no limit, even the quick fix has an overheal penalty.

    • @warden6290
      @warden6290 2 года назад +11

      @@mr.pickle6487 the problem is that vac builds overheal EXTREMELY slow

    • @cewla3348
      @cewla3348 Год назад +1

      @@luigifan4585 while vacc normally ignores phlog like "why is there an angry child" you do not have permanent vacc uber

  • @ryandunham3951
    @ryandunham3951 2 года назад +540

    One thing not considered that affected this meta was that fire damage applies a passive penalty to all healing beams, limiting the ammount of incoming health. Slowing input of overheal in general allows for a quicker kill time for the side with a pyro in a situation with two identical med combos fighting alongside non-identical teammate comps.

    • @-RandomStranger-
      @-RandomStranger- 3 месяца назад

      Is there actually a penalty? Or is it just because afterburn is the opposite of healing

    • @pointyyou
      @pointyyou 2 месяца назад +5

      ​@@-RandomStranger- pretty sure healing from medi-guns is decreased after having taken damage recently, so afterburn sorta keeps that decrease active for much longer

    • @-RandomStranger-
      @-RandomStranger- 2 месяца назад +1

      @@pointyyou yeah, that what I meant

    • @AAAAAAAAAAAA44
      @AAAAAAAAAAAA44 2 дня назад

      ​@pointyyou nah, if you're afterburned, then its a flat 50% healing decrease

  • @aneasteregg8171
    @aneasteregg8171 2 года назад +822

    I feel like the spy's impact is being underrated here. Sure, they may not always get kills, but every time they did made a huge difference since they were instantly deleting thousands of HP that would have taken far longer to do for anyone else, during which time they'd be dealing damage back themselves.

    • @rainchopper898
      @rainchopper898 2 года назад +252

      Also all the clips he showed he was literally trying to facestab people, in a match with competent players, wound up heavy will always get trickstabbed, and phlog taunt will always get trickstabbed. Also kunai steals health. If there is no heal limit from backstab, 1 backstab and spy becomes literally unkillable again.

    • @twohomiesplayingjojogames6748
      @twohomiesplayingjojogames6748 2 года назад +71

      Kunai cloak and dagger. Sit in a corner wait for an overhealed enemy to pass and BAM

    • @kubaGR8
      @kubaGR8 2 года назад +94

      Spy really does not seem good in a gamemode where everyone is playing Pyro.

    • @yapflipthegrunt4687
      @yapflipthegrunt4687 2 года назад +8

      @@rainchopper898 x10 spy

    • @abicto
      @abicto 2 года назад +22

      @@rainchopper898 the kunai didnt break the overheal cap
      only mediguns did

  • @d4cto
    @d4cto 2 года назад +574

    I wonder, if the sniper's rifle charge meter was removed as well, would everyone charge the rifle for two minutes to be able to oneshot bodyshot a heavy or would everyone use and charge huntsman for a few seconds before shooting?

    • @kerbonaut2059
      @kerbonaut2059 2 года назад +200

      Sit for 2 minutes
      Anti materiel rifle

    • @somerandomgamer8504
      @somerandomgamer8504 2 года назад +55

      I'll get my Pro Killstreak Classic out! It's hunting season!

    • @widecat1404
      @widecat1404 2 года назад +15

      @Aidan Eaglesfield that's true, but the huntsman charges significantly faster than any other sniper primary so it would still probably be the best

    • @connor2094
      @connor2094 2 года назад +26

      2 min build up and then miss...

    • @he3004
      @he3004 2 года назад +17

      Sydney sleeper would be the meta as charge would increase both the damage and the jarates duration and it also charges 25% faster, and you also wouldn't have to wait much even with other rifles
      Idk how long is the charge but let's assume 5 seconds, in 5 seconds you increase your damage from 50 to 150, so in theory you would need to sit in place for only 12.5 seconds to oneshot any class without a medic and 20 seconds to oneshot a full overheal heavy, if they go vac and steel fist you would need to wait 375 seconds, so you can oneshot anything in about 6 minutes but average vacc uber lasts about 3-4 seconds so this is very extreme
      Note: I also don't remember the exact resistance vac gives so feel free to correct me

  • @appliedatoms7066
    @appliedatoms7066 2 года назад +1113

    Yes, this is complete hell. But on the upside sniper is completely neutered. So it's not all bad.
    Now I just want this comboed with the last experiment.

    • @Octobeann
      @Octobeann 2 года назад +72

      phlog+quick fix+ubersaw/knife scout

    • @gabriel4lyfeanimations497
      @gabriel4lyfeanimations497 2 года назад +1

      100th like

    • @vinnae
      @vinnae 2 года назад +48

      Worth it for that Kiwi to get relegated to nothingness.

    • @redline841
      @redline841 2 года назад +4

      And Medic has more game

    • @Llortor
      @Llortor 2 года назад

      Quake 1 Ranger vs Davoth

  • @jvbutalid8316
    @jvbutalid8316 2 года назад +97

    "I held my viewers at gunpoint and politely asked them to participate in the experiment."
    - shounic, 2022
    providing context is prohibited lol

  • @josephrichardson7254
    @josephrichardson7254 2 года назад +260

    Being one of the participants, that end clip of everyone dousing the middle point in fire, scrambling around to make something work was the perfect embodiment of this experiment. But it was honestly one of the most fun things I've done in TF2. Maybe it's because I'm braindead, that is a possibility.

    • @Simboiss
      @Simboiss 2 года назад +24

      This experiment have shown that changing just one single variable can completely disrupt the delicate balance between TF2 classes.

    • @tappajaav
      @tappajaav Год назад +3

      @@Simboiss Cue warowl "negev became the meta"

  • @brocksteele7475
    @brocksteele7475 Год назад +39

    Interesting how, in a meta FULL of pyros, the Spy still manages to carve a niche for himself.

  • @Mabra51
    @Mabra51 2 года назад +69

    "backstabs only work if you stab their back"
    If only it were that simple...

    • @MrJohn8apie
      @MrJohn8apie Год назад +7

      ikr, I was waiting for the gag clip the whole time he circled the pyro

    • @Soapromancer
      @Soapromancer Месяц назад

      Most trickstabs boil down to moving weirdly to get people to walk in front of you.

    • @Mabra51
      @Mabra51 Месяц назад

      @@Soapromancer I was referring to facestabs and stabbing the air 1 meter in front of your target.
      It just works.

  • @lacerda5081
    @lacerda5081 2 года назад +240

    Idea: Everyone can use the Spy's disguise kit

    • @pogobod2128
      @pogobod2128 2 года назад +46

      Well bruh just use pyro

    • @StilvurBee
      @StilvurBee 2 года назад +49

      i'm picturing fan'o'war scouts disguising as enemy scouts and instantly melee and meatshotting every class

    • @BasicallyGoblin
      @BasicallyGoblin 2 года назад +3

      @shounic we need this.

    • @Rodrigo-kq3js
      @Rodrigo-kq3js 7 месяцев назад +2

      now everyone can use the weakest, most useless feature of spy, and on top of that, its now even more useless because everyone knows everyone has it! ricetong

  • @adamdahlstrom2095
    @adamdahlstrom2095 2 года назад +139

    Seeing a Brass Beast with 2k HP would be SCARY

    • @funny_starman
      @funny_starman 2 года назад +58

      ''You can't hurt me Jack''

    • @GewelReal
      @GewelReal 2 года назад +9

      Then Phlog renders it completely useless

    • @Nyxael5845
      @Nyxael5845 2 года назад +16

      MvM Heavy Giants: *Am I a joke to you?*

    • @temkin9298
      @temkin9298 2 года назад

      @@GewelReal If a coordinated spy team of 2 is there phlog's taunt would result in a immediate neutralization.

  • @octzed
    @octzed 2 года назад +5

    hey ma I'm on camera! 5:13
    this was as fun as it was unfun. thanks for hosting ridiculous alternative universe tf2 scenarios though!

  • @LyritZian
    @LyritZian 2 года назад +89

    You should have mentioned that afterburn also reduces direct Medic healing by 20%, making it easier to fight the overheal buildup.

  • @StickMaster500
    @StickMaster500 2 года назад +311

    This experiment just turns any class into a Saxton Hale Boss

  • @JillofTrades
    @JillofTrades 2 года назад +15

    0:37 Spy: *8k health*
    Pyro: Letme fix that *airblasts off cliff*

  • @dclc
    @dclc 2 года назад +41

    ... then tf2 becomes hell itself

    • @moronichybrid
      @moronichybrid Год назад +3

      Why are you implying that this experiment made TF2 hell?
      It always was.

  • @botboy3603
    @botboy3603 11 месяцев назад +15

    I can imagine the Kunai being absolutely overpowered in this mode. The more stabs he gets, the more health he gets, and everyone has more health to give to him

    • @soundrogue4472
      @soundrogue4472 10 месяцев назад +1

      Actually Kunai Spy isn't that powerful in this mode.

  • @SirPembertonS.Crevalius
    @SirPembertonS.Crevalius 2 года назад +40

    I'd love to see an all melee battle with just pans where everyone has 1k+ health lol.

  • @Sangheilitat117
    @Sangheilitat117 2 года назад +8

    That spy gameplay at 3:00 is physically painful to watch lmao

  • @SnipingIsAGoodJobMate
    @SnipingIsAGoodJobMate 2 года назад +23

    5:15
    The game devolved into a regular casual match

    • @appliedatoms7066
      @appliedatoms7066 2 года назад +9

      nowhere near enough snipers

    • @vivelespatat2670
      @vivelespatat2670 Год назад

      Lies, the 4000h Sniper and the 6 gibus spies aren't present

    • @blacklight683
      @blacklight683 Год назад

      @@appliedatoms7066 ok now that you said that it seems that this makes the game more balanced

    • @appliedatoms7066
      @appliedatoms7066 Год назад +4

      @@blacklight683 balanced? No. More fun without instant death from across the map because you moved toward the objective? Yes.

    • @blacklight683
      @blacklight683 Год назад +1

      @@appliedatoms7066 indeed, I hate sniper and this makes dealing with him much eazier

  • @bbdanny
    @bbdanny 2 года назад +35

    i was expecting airblast to be total meta just for the sheer area denial it had, anyone with basic knowledge or airblast mechanics can could easily defend the last point on attack defend and to an extent on payload

    • @comrademuds1951
      @comrademuds1951 2 года назад +25

      Problem is quick fix negates airblast

    • @bbdanny
      @bbdanny 2 года назад +3

      @@comrademuds1951 oh yeah, i totally forgot about that

    • @kubaGR8
      @kubaGR8 2 года назад +5

      That, and the flamethrower's flame-throwing range is longer than the airblast's air-blasting range.

    • @Chorismos
      @Chorismos 2 года назад

      @@kubaGR8 this isn't true.

    • @kubaGR8
      @kubaGR8 2 года назад +4

      @@Chorismos The video showed otherwise. Flamethrower range is longer by a few hammer units.

  • @TheL0rd0fSpace
    @TheL0rd0fSpace 2 года назад +25

    I wonder how this experiment would work, if it were tweaked a bit (to make it more like a deliberate decision Valve might've made).
    Like, what if the overheal was uncapped, but starting at 150% health, slowed down linearly, so while you could heal indefinitely, it would eventually be weaker than an enemy's damage? Obviously, you'd have to plateau the slope at some point, or you'd just effectively create a new health cap.
    The slope doesn't need to be steep, just enough so that 12 Quick Fix medics all healing each other don't effectively tank everything in the game.

    • @syrelian
      @syrelian 6 месяцев назад

      Being On Fire already penalizes healing, which is another factor in the Phlog's prominence, its does obscene damage and stunts healing effectively

  • @AzNZinc
    @AzNZinc 2 года назад +25

    i would've thought being able to safely drain hp from a range via demoman or kritzing a demo would still be good strategy due to high damage output and knockback.
    phlog is a no brainer as insane hp covers 90% of the weaknesses of phlog

    • @mr.pickle6487
      @mr.pickle6487 2 года назад +1

      Crit Scottish resistance. Mvm style.

  • @EzioAuditore9655
    @EzioAuditore9655 2 года назад +138

    Impressive. I thought most kills would be done with airblast into fall.

    • @femboyvincent2917
      @femboyvincent2917 2 года назад +30

      @@gab936 environmental kills

    • @the8bitclicker_193
      @the8bitclicker_193 2 года назад +15

      @@gab936 environmental kills, like cliffs in Higher Tower or Upward, those are instant-killers, he wasn't talking about fall damage.
      Though I can't blame you for misunderstanding, I read this comment and couldn't understand at first

    • @scantyer
      @scantyer 2 года назад +4

      most good maps don't have cliffs sadly

  • @Artician
    @Artician 2 года назад +7

    1:25 What playing spy looks like

  • @plasticballs
    @plasticballs 2 года назад +5

    3:45 the zombie escape players must've had a field day with this one

  • @rickywalters7717
    @rickywalters7717 2 года назад +3

    4:16 God i just love this clip. I don't know why, but I love it.

  • @ismJoboi
    @ismJoboi 25 дней назад +1

    0:26 loved your honesty there ❤

  • @harvuy3817
    @harvuy3817 2 года назад +17

    Here is an experiment idea:
    Only crit and mini-crit attacks can deal damage
    I think it would be interesting to see how this change will affect the role of each class

    • @sasatofe7707
      @sasatofe7707 2 года назад +3

      bye demoknight
      hi sniperknight

    • @bruschetta7711
      @bruschetta7711 2 года назад +2

      Random crits on or off?

    • @NotSnak
      @NotSnak 2 года назад +14

      Piss rifle jarate snipers are now the ultimate support

    • @harvuy3817
      @harvuy3817 2 года назад +3

      @@bruschetta7711 off

    • @e-cap1239
      @e-cap1239 2 года назад +10

      -Crit-a-cola and Fan-o-war Scout
      -Kritzkreig or Uber or Vaccinator Medic
      -Trolldier with the buff banner
      -Spy with Ambassador
      -Sniper with Jarate and either stock or the Sydney sleeper
      -Pyro, using either the Phlog or the Backburner along with the Scorch shot or Flare gun (provided there is afterburn that deals no damage so he can combo)
      -Heavy with the Buffalo Steak Sandwich and KGB
      -Engineer's buildings are immune to crit damage and the sentry will still cause knockback
      -Demoknight might be useful?

  • @thelegalsystem
    @thelegalsystem 2 года назад +28

    I'm curious how this would go if everything was the same BUT Medics couldn't receive overheal (and maybe if overheal decayed faster)

    • @rainboroad
      @rainboroad 2 года назад +5

      if you can recall how overwatch was on release, it would be like that. everyone on the enemy team dives onto the medic, and they die, lest, the medic will simply live and that wins by default

  • @aqua2k210
    @aqua2k210 2 года назад +6

    2:15 something important to note about game metas is that metas are defined by 2 things.
    1. Is is easy to do?
    2. Is it a guaranteed win against other strategies?

  • @kronkrian100
    @kronkrian100 2 года назад +6

    I feel like demo could have a niche role in this gamemode, if your aim is good enough that is. You can use pipes and stickies in a defensive situation to knock up Pyros and Medics in the air and waste their time. This combines nicely with a sentry - demo lifts the enemy up and the sentry blasts them away. There is also the sticky trap, which despite doing relatively insignificant damage at uncapped overheal is still a nice source of burst, especially if the stickies are critzed.
    Alternatively you could run demoknight with the Chargin Targe for that 50% resistance to fire damage and the Skullcutter with a pocket vaccinator medic on your ass 24/7.
    Admittedly a very niche pick overall, but I am surprised no one thought of trying it.

    • @BComet
      @BComet 2 года назад +6

      Sadly, the quickfix neutralizes knockback, so pushing folks around with stickies is out of question.
      However, I think that fully critted stickbomb traps could have a chance of killing someone.

  • @H.A.L9000
    @H.A.L9000 2 года назад +8

    0:26 medigun point

  • @fortnitesexman
    @fortnitesexman 2 года назад +3

    1:19
    never heard of face stabs eh? the sheer amount of times i've been backstabbed while looking at the spy rivals the run time of "empire" from 1964

  • @rodakdev
    @rodakdev 2 года назад

    I loved to try this out, thanks for the experience!!

  • @GreatFox42
    @GreatFox42 2 года назад

    I love these videos where you change one thing about the game design or code, just to see what happens and subsequently discover why it was made the way it was.

  • @Degenerate04
    @Degenerate04 2 года назад +4

    What's funny to me is that in every single one of these types of videos, the phlog always finds a way to be involved in the meta somehow.

  • @itchylol742
    @itchylol742 2 года назад +7

    Don't forget the part where phlog pyros could get thousands of health then spawncamp enemies who only spawned with default health 🔥

  • @knightsolaire5351
    @knightsolaire5351 3 месяца назад +1

    I love the recurring theme of if you change anything at all the phlog becomes broken

  • @quadconjures
    @quadconjures 2 года назад +3

    Interesting to see the plog so consistently come up in these extreme experiments

  • @whereami.
    @whereami. 2 года назад +5

    damn, this experiment would’ve been really fun to play as spy

  • @GraveUypo
    @GraveUypo 2 года назад +10

    but what if overhealing slowly tappered off after 150%. like, healing got slower in a log curve that effectively flattened at 600% hp (at this point heals are just 1 hp per second)

  • @TheAweDude1
    @TheAweDude1 2 года назад +2

    I really love these types of experiments. It does make me wonder about other things like:
    1) What if Engineer could build an unlimited number of buildings?
    2) What if every weapon in their respective slot was combined (Medic has a melee weapon with -32.5% swing speed, -10 max health, but allowed you to see enemy HP, build uber on hit and retain uber when dead)?
    3) Everybody had infinite double jumps?
    4) All weapons had reversed damage fall off, like the Crusader's Crossbow?

  • @johannesneumayer6041
    @johannesneumayer6041 Год назад +1

    „Backstabs only work if you stab their back.“
    Yes, the floor is made out of floor.

  • @cameronballz6154
    @cameronballz6154 Год назад +9

    0:51 viewers guess what the meta would be without overheal limit.
    Me: medic...because overheal

  • @sluggknight7130
    @sluggknight7130 Год назад +4

    Hey shounic, maybe you could try an experiment that replaces the dead ringer activation noise to when you kill the spy instead of when he decides to decloak after the activation

  • @MeesterTweester
    @MeesterTweester 2 года назад

    I love these meta experiments

  • @FireThePyroYT
    @FireThePyroYT Год назад

    learning that all these experiments return to the plog is like learning that animals keep evolving into crabs

  • @dasuperbeefman
    @dasuperbeefman 10 месяцев назад +6

    "this pyro is at full health. if i heal hi-"
    "nuh uh *equips back scratcher* "
    "well shi- *video ends* "

  • @henrybadger785
    @henrybadger785 2 года назад +19

    I’m 1:19 in and I’m gonna guess the best class to overheal will be engineer. Considering he can pick up his sentry, protecting it.
    Edit: *oh.*

  • @rainsf0rd
    @rainsf0rd 2 года назад

    Awesome video man

  • @RioManegos
    @RioManegos 2 года назад

    I like these experimental 'what if we change or removing a mechanic' ideas.

  • @peakwoop
    @peakwoop 2 года назад +3

    Comp players boutta go nuts

  • @BecCallow1471
    @BecCallow1471 2 года назад +5

    So the ultimate takeaway from this is, if any class could use any weapon then Scout + Phlog is so strong it warps the meta around it, and if overheal isn't capped then Phlog becomes the core of the meta.
    I'll let everyone else come to their own conclusions, but this tells me that the Pyro's limitations are what holds the Phlog back.

    • @KopperNeoman
      @KopperNeoman 2 года назад +3

      Shocking.
      Almost like how Scout speed is overpowered on Heavy.
      Almost as if classes are deliberately balanced or something.

    • @BecCallow1471
      @BecCallow1471 2 года назад +2

      @@KopperNeoman That refers to class abilities, though. My point is that the Phlog is should probably be nerfed to mini-crits, if it's so precariously balanced.

    • @thebushbros6626
      @thebushbros6626 Год назад

      @@BecCallow1471 The fact that you think mini crits on the phlog is balanced just shows that you have no idea how balance works.

  • @meowmix_tv
    @meowmix_tv 11 месяцев назад

    man this looks so fun

  • @apxprdtr_mge
    @apxprdtr_mge 2 года назад +5

    I'd like to think I have decent aim. Much better at flicking than tracking though. But I just can't fathom how the heavy loses that mge match, with the health buffed for both. Stock minigun does about as much as kritz phlog, how is this even a contest. Maybe you should have tried some pro heavy players for this experiment. Interesting nevertheless.

    • @calsalitra4689
      @calsalitra4689 2 года назад +2

      Despite the the Heavy being good at close range, it's becomes a pain to hit an enemy at point-blank range. I've experienced this personally with Scouts, once they get into melee range a good Scout can make it almost impossible to see them, let alone hit them. While Pyro's aren't as fast as Scouts are, they're still easily fast enough to make a Heavy miss most of their shots, maybe half of the Heavy's shots at least. When the Pyro keeps their full DPS while the Heavy loses most of it, the Pyro can easily come out on top.
      Still, I agree that it would be interesting to see how a professional Heavy would do against a professional Pyro. I assume that the Heavy's improved aim would scale better than a Pyro's improved movement, but I just don't see what a Heavy can do against a Pyro that starts hugging them.
      EDIT: Thinking about it, it would also be interesting to do a test between 6 2000 HP Heavy's and 6 2000 HP Pyro's. That kind of experiment would give a more concrete conclusion on which one wins.

    • @kubaGR8
      @kubaGR8 2 года назад +1

      They're both buffed to the same health, so the Heavy no longer has an advantage, while still being very, very slow and having a larger hitbox.
      The Pyro has the same 2k health, but a smaller hitbox and a much better movement speed, allowing him to dodge better.

    • @tragedyplustime8271
      @tragedyplustime8271 2 года назад

      Ngl, that Heavy sucks at tracking. I could understand if the other player was a Scout, but there's a reason Heavy counters Pyro: If a Heavy KNOWS how to track, Pyro is toast.
      So really, Heavy should be meta (As he is with Medic normally), it's just shounic couldn't find good Heavy players.

    • @kubaGR8
      @kubaGR8 2 года назад

      @@tragedyplustime8271 the reason Heavy counters Pyro is because he has twice as much health and much more DPS than the Pyro
      When both have 2000 HP, the health advantage is gone, and with the Phlog, so is the DPS advantage. But the Heavy also is much slower and has a bigger hitbox, putting him at a further disadvantage because the Pyro can easily get max flamethrower ramp-up.

    • @tragedyplustime8271
      @tragedyplustime8271 2 года назад

      @@kubaGR8 The Phlog doesn't have a dps close to the Natacha, let alone Stock or Brass Beast.
      Hitbox doesn't matter if the Heavy ACTUALLY knows how to track. His speed doesn't matter because the minigun's aiming speed is the same as any other weapon.

  • @SunshineAIC
    @SunshineAIC 2 года назад +3

    You dont have to "brute force" a "facestab," you can move correctly to get a backstab the same way you can dodge as scout or juke as medic or use any melee for that matter.

    • @habl844
      @habl844 2 года назад

      @@VioletSteel13 Everyone has their own definition of what a facestab is. Most spies just call stabs trickstabs, unless it looked like it shouldn't have been a stab, at which point it's a facestab. But in technical terms, those facestabs don't exist since hitreg is consistent even if it doesn't always look like it to the naked eye.

    • @habl844
      @habl844 2 года назад

      @@VioletSteel13 What is it is legit on the spy's end? Facestab implies it shouldnt have counted, but that definition is really meaningless since every stab which counted should have counted if you define backstab the same as hitreg does.

    • @habl844
      @habl844 2 года назад

      @@VioletSteel13 but it has nothing to do with hitboxes. it's lag compensation working as intended

    • @habl844
      @habl844 2 года назад

      ​@@VioletSteel13
      What does it mean to look? Looking requires the dimension of time, which due to how the game is networked only really has a meaning when you observe it from the perspective of a defined observer. If you go to a different observer, their perception of time is different. That's how lag works. Time becomes relative and players see different things.
      Valve made the intentional design choice to calculate hitreg based on the attacker's view, which is why "facestabs" are fully intentional game design. It would be much more unfair if the attacker had to predict to what to them is in the future.

    • @habl844
      @habl844 2 года назад

      @@VioletSteel13 You can't have both. You can either have hitreg based on the attacker's view or the opponent's view. Valve intentionally chose to go with the attacker's view, which makes facestabs intentional game design.

  • @blacklight683
    @blacklight683 2 года назад +1

    Ah yes I hold them at gun point and politely in the same sentence what a polite man

  • @kayceeS219
    @kayceeS219 2 года назад +1

    ‘I held my viewers at gun point and politely asked them to participate in the experiment’ me: I agree, holding a person at gunpoint and then proceeding to politely say ‘participate in the experiment’ while still being held at gun point is crazy

  • @trbz_8745
    @trbz_8745 2 года назад +9

    Kritzkrieg Brass Beast probably would have been a really strong niche strat since it can far outrange and outdamage phlog, if only for 8 seconds

    • @octzed
      @octzed 2 года назад +4

      I tried (you can see me in the video using the kritzkrieg). It doesn't work because phlog crits charge MUCH faster than kritzkrieg, and also heavy's low mobility makes it difficult to chase down pyros and do optimal damage.

  • @AndrewChumKaser
    @AndrewChumKaser 2 года назад +7

    It's worth mentioning that pyro's flames also reduce healing, effectively cutting down the ammount of HP the classes have.

  • @akirakaminari8161
    @akirakaminari8161 2 года назад

    these videos are incredibly interesting to see how the meta instantly shifts when game mechanics change.

  • @17raysplays29
    @17raysplays29 2 года назад

    The way you talk about Spy makes it sound like you've never encountered a competent Spy.

  • @otherwasp
    @otherwasp 2 года назад +6

    i wonder if a spy disguised as a medic on his own team, using the kunai would be very good, since people might not expect it to be a spy since medics are trying to do melee a lot and the enemy would be able to burn a medic normally. also, if the kunai gives you 3000 overheal for killing an overhealed enemy, it could be pretty good

  • @XDRosenheim
    @XDRosenheim 2 года назад +5

    00:09 - "This temporary health, is capped at 850%"
    Are you sure about that?

    • @M22_locust3
      @M22_locust3 8 месяцев назад +2

      "A hundred and fifty percent" not "eight hundred and fifty percent"

  • @0m7_
    @0m7_ 8 месяцев назад +1

    As a quick-fix medic main, this would be a dream come true

  • @mikhail8851
    @mikhail8851 2 года назад

    "i held my veiwers at gunpoint and politely asked to to participate in the experiement"
    - shounic 2022

  • @MersenneTwister
    @MersenneTwister 2 года назад +8

    With all the grief people give heavy players about how easy he is, it's kind of hilarious that the biggest problem was that no one was any good at tracking with heavy :)

    • @edcellwarrior
      @edcellwarrior Год назад +1

      That wasn’t what the problem was :)

  • @battlefork4625
    @battlefork4625 2 года назад +3

    neat.

    • @edohanma
      @edohanma 2 года назад

      bro just watched 6 minutes in 1 minute

    • @battlefork4625
      @battlefork4625 2 года назад

      @@edohanma im from the future dw

  • @ChronoSquare
    @ChronoSquare 2 года назад

    oh man I missed this experiment time. Very interesting with the flames vs airblast distances.

  • @blukat9903
    @blukat9903 2 года назад

    This is so beautiful

  • @lukabakker8527
    @lukabakker8527 2 года назад +3

    0:11 260*

    • @blackgoose87
      @blackgoose87 6 месяцев назад

      No, he said 150%.

    • @lukabakker8527
      @lukabakker8527 6 месяцев назад

      *that was a year ago*

    • @fabiosonhandogrande1697
      @fabiosonhandogrande1697 6 месяцев назад

      ​@@lukabakker8527 *ERRORS SHALL NOT BE FORGOTTEN NO MATTER WHAT, AS LONG AS THEY STAY*

    • @lukabakker8527
      @lukabakker8527 6 месяцев назад

      I don't even play tf2 anymore😭😭😭

  • @tinkant5210
    @tinkant5210 2 года назад +3

    Great vid overall but a little confused on the Spy perspective of things.
    Yeah, you won't get backstabs if you just run up to people and start slashing. That's true in vanilla TF2, just that here, you won't get mauled down instantly.
    Spy's whole thing is flanking and trickstabs, I don't get why you excluded the latter.

    • @stitchfinger7678
      @stitchfinger7678 2 года назад +5

      Its hard to do when the fights are so chaotic because almost nobody dies on a second-to-second basis; like he said, you can really only shuffle into a big fight and hope to land a facestab in the confusion, otherwise you'll get burned out or just fail to score points.
      And with Pyro being the meta, Spy is all the less effective.

    • @zappodude7591
      @zappodude7591 2 года назад

      Trickstabs are only useful against gullible players or when latency favors you.

  • @W3tPaint
    @W3tPaint 2 года назад

    this is a pretty cool idea

  • @gregorykopylov5633
    @gregorykopylov5633 2 года назад +2

    4:23 I love how the scout shrugs as if saying that the crit revolver shots don't do anything to him.

    • @AnderJaxi
      @AnderJaxi Год назад +1

      Scout: This is fine.

  • @UserIsGlassed
    @UserIsGlassed 2 года назад +10

    I would call this the over oven
    Stats
    +60% more over heal on team mates
    +20% hp on health packs etc
    +10 more dmg on melees etc
    - 20 melee swing speed
    Medics healing team mates has 20% more dmg to every thing (except for plogs)
    It's quite fair tho i mean
    P.S: I edited this 4 times

    • @LoraLoibu
      @LoraLoibu 2 года назад +2

      60% more overheal is the main gimmick
      +20% health pack hp? why?
      melee stats are just... why?
      is the 20% more damage the ubercharge? if not, what would it be?

    • @deftheocelot9125
      @deftheocelot9125 2 года назад

      I agree with the other commenter
      Strip everything but the overheal.
      Uber Effect: damage resistance for targets with overheal, rapid overheal for you, but if their overheal drains then they lose it.

    • @LoraLoibu
      @LoraLoibu 2 года назад

      @@deftheocelot9125 So, a kind of a mix of the vaccinator and quickfix ubers? Sounds intresting

    • @UserIsGlassed
      @UserIsGlassed 2 года назад

      i wrote the health pack hp as a refrence to another spin off of tf2, Typical Colours 2 on roblox its ok i mean just way more tryhards then tf2 (the weapon is the stock weapon for doctor its just called saw and its a 50% health pack on that game)

    • @UserIsGlassed
      @UserIsGlassed 2 года назад

      but no one asked for this sooooo

  • @lukamtc9188
    @lukamtc9188 2 года назад +31

    "The problem with spy is that you have to stand behind them, which is hard when people are looking at you"
    The solution there, it seems to me, is to play the fucking class as its supposed to be played.

    • @henryambrose8607
      @henryambrose8607 2 года назад +17

      I think the point is that while spy can work, it's not going to be the main combat class, and still serves the same role it always did, with the added difficulty of there being pyros everywhere.

    • @M4x_P0w3r
      @M4x_P0w3r 2 года назад +6

      Alright. Try to do that in a server full of pyros

    • @endlesstrash4718
      @endlesstrash4718 2 года назад +2

      @@henryambrose8607 in addition because people have so much health fights last longer and and up as blobs when normally people end up dying and moving around and running to the fights more. This means the chance of finding a lone player or group that doesn't have a pyro flame-checking player drops significantly meaning you have way less potential lone or unprotected targets even if you're looking for them.

    • @GabrielAKAFinn
      @GabrielAKAFinn 2 года назад

      How are you going to do that when hydrocephalus pyro players are holding down m1 and spinning their view like monkeys?

    • @calsalitra4689
      @calsalitra4689 2 года назад

      @@endlesstrash4718 Blobs of players also offer an opportunity, since with a large number of players running around the same space, a Spy can slip in easily and get a few stabs in, especially if that blob is distracted by a fight. Pyro flames would make that hard, but with a little time overhealing 1000 HP would be more than enough to get the job done.

  • @e5858
    @e5858 26 дней назад +1

    Huh. And here I was thinking the Medic would be the most popular class

  • @BP-bq9uz
    @BP-bq9uz Месяц назад

    “you have to be behind someone to stab them” is a very funny sentence to say about Spy Teamfortresstwo

  • @microsoftpowerpoint4731
    @microsoftpowerpoint4731 2 года назад

    I love these theoretical gameplay videos

  • @julesedelweiss
    @julesedelweiss 2 года назад

    "i held my viewers at gunpoint and politely asked them to partake in the experiment" is a perfect summary of the vibe that shounic gives off, and why i find his passive aggressive tone fucking hilarious

  • @OdaySaidIbra
    @OdaySaidIbra Год назад

    "i held my viewers at gun point ant politely asked them to participate"
    "politely"

  • @alphabetgoop35
    @alphabetgoop35 2 года назад

    I’m commenting to give your video an algorithm boost
    Love your videos tho

  • @nuoza
    @nuoza 2 года назад +1

    pyro: use phlog
    sentry: look at me im the airblast now

  • @MedicMainDave
    @MedicMainDave 2 года назад

    I approve.
    I really gotta get myself one of these mediguns!

  • @TestedRobbie
    @TestedRobbie 13 дней назад

    “Backstabs only work when you stab their back”
    I wish that was true

  • @skyeshoe.223
    @skyeshoe.223 Год назад

    That was wxtremely interesting.

  • @guyoestreich
    @guyoestreich 8 месяцев назад +1

    Suppressed that scout didn't get used more since he is specifically given low health to balance his high damage and mobility.

  • @DJL3G3ND
    @DJL3G3ND Год назад +1

    of course its the pyro, its always the pyro, EVERYTHINGS THE PYRO

  • @buddyisbored2355
    @buddyisbored2355 2 года назад

    Cant wait for the Cactus Canyon experiment video

    • @shounic
      @shounic  2 года назад +1

      no...........

  • @AnonymasFox
    @AnonymasFox Год назад

    00:15
    "And no matter what i do, i cant overheal them"
    *proceeds to shoot two crossbow bolts into eye sockets

  • @Gideon_the_Seraph
    @Gideon_the_Seraph Год назад +1

    “For the most part, spy was pretty useless.”
    Yup. Most spy players