An Interview with ERIC SMITH [CHAD DAYBELL'S FRIEND]
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- Опубликовано: 1 окт 2024
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In an incredibly honest and forthcoming 2-hour interview, Eric Smith talks to Lauren Matthias about his and Chad Daybell's belief system which includes living past lives. We discuss his relationship with Julie Rowe, visions, zombies, deception and more.
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BIOS
Dr. John Matthias is a licensed clinical and forensic psychologist with twenty-five years’ experience in both clinical and forensic work. He has performed over 500 forensic and psychological evaluations and risk assessments for the courts since 1996, assessing the risks for violent and sexual recidivism for both adults and juveniles. He serves as an expert witness for the federal government and he has consulted on numerous high-profile cases for District Attorney’s offices and defense attorneys in several states. He is a certified court evaluator in several Western states, and he has forensic evaluation contracts with the federal government. He recently started a podcast, Hidden: A True Crime Podcast, with his journalist wife, Lauren, to present forensic psychology to a broad audience. The current season of the podcast explores the psychological dynamics behind the Vallow/Daybell case.
In the forensic area, Dr. Matthias has developed expertise in personality assessments, hidden behavioral motivations, complex trauma and criminal psychology. In the clinical realm, he has worked with numerous victims of abuse and trauma, including with survivors of the Las Vegas shooting massacre in 2017. He also received his Master’s degree in Marriage, Family and Child counseling from the University of Southern California and he has worked with hundreds of families, couples and children over the years. He supervises UNLV doctoral students on forensic assessments, clinical case formulation, and various therapeutic approaches to clinical work.
Dr. Matthias graduated with honors in philosophy from Princeton University, and won the prestigious McCosh Thesis prize while there. In high school he graduated valedictorian from a large public high school in Chicago where he was chosen to participate in a ground-breaking valedictory study that continues to this day. He received his doctorate from the University of Southern California.
Lauren Matthias aworked as an anchor and reporter for ABC, NBC, and FOX News in East Idaho, Boise, Idaho and Salt Lake City, Utah. She spent a decade reporting on a diverse range of topics from high profile crimes to Presidential visits. Most recently, she reported for Salt Lake City’s ABC affiliate News4Utah. In 2015 she received the Idaho State Broadcaster’s Association Best Reporter award in addition to receiving the best report of the year in 2015 based upon a short documentary she did on LGBTQ rights. She was hired by Milwaukee’s ABC affiliate to be their lead reporter in 2015. She recently left the reporting world to stay home with her son and to produce and edit, Hidden: A True Crime Podcast. She currently works as the executive producer of the Hidden podcast
The beauty of having only one life on this earth is that it becomes infinitely more precious. Perhaps if Lori and Chad had believed in only one probation, only this one precious life on this earth, they would not have so callously thrown away children and spouses life. Instead they believed there would be chance after chance to live. There isn’t. There is one precious chance at life, don’t throw it away!
Well said ! Agreed!
VERY well said!
PREACH it girl! 🤍
They twisted that (lori&Chad) how scary.
Amen 💯🙏💯
The fact that he still believes Chad to be a visionary, is terribly scary. Those people are thick as a stone wall.
That is really scary, Diana!
I think you meant Chad not Charles. And yeah it is scary. He has gifts? He can talk to spirits? Why didn't the spirits warn him that this was going to happen?
These people are fruit loops….
Did you mean Chad???
All this stuff about "probations" is completely and totally NOT biblical. The whole thread of his talk is based on their own writings and their own books. That is breaking God's 1st Commandment that says, "Thou shall have NO other Gods before Me." They are doing the opposite by trying to elevate themselves to be their own gods. We can't become gods. What he said about being "stuck" in Heaven after death is incomprehensible to me because that is where those who have put their faith in Jesus Christ as their Savior, will be in our Creator's presence filled by His pure love. Something so wondereful that we can't even imagine. On the other hand, those who are trying to be their own gods, will be sent away from His presence with the total weight of their own sins since they have no way to pay for their sin debt since they rejected God's gift of love, grace and mercy, His Son, Jesus Christ. Jesus paid our sin debt in full for those who put their faith in Him. Praying that he will turn away from these dangerous and false beliefs and give his life to Christ as his Savior before it is too late.
The Bible specifically teaches that:
2 Corinthians 5:8 - "We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord."
These people are so untethered to reality, it’s scary.
You never hear any of these fruit loops say they were a ditch digger or bar maid in another probation. They were always were Isiah, a priest or an angel. Anything but an ordinary man or woman. They cannot handle the ordinary nature of their lives and create bullshit to make them relevant. This inability to tolerate who they truly are has led to horrible consequences in the loved ones for Chad and Lori.
Complete narcissist
You are so right on! It is outlandish.
Lori is a hairdresser. She mostly lived off her husbands.
I watched this guy a while back. He is lost. He has no grip on what real truth is. He can’t back up what he believes so he twists the Holy Bible to answer questions. This guy is egocentric. He thinks he is owed an answer to all questions.
This is frightening!!! Stay away!
A bible verse that I think people forget about:
Beware of false prophets, who come to you in
sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravening wolves.
Right it's crazy they read a million books but charlatans but not the book their own faith is based on
I want to compliment Lauren - this was a showcase of her interview skills. She was deft and probing while maintaining compassion and asking tough questions. Well done.
Very well done! Agree!
I agree! I would not be able to do it.
The fact that after finding the dead children in Chad's yard that this man thinks Chad has "gifts" is unconscionable.
Agree. He is a madder than a bag of frogs
Ya agreed
Super prideful. It is very very hard to admit when we are wrong and our discernment fails us.... why I am still married to my second husband🤣🤣🤣 Seriously though, once we know we are wrong it is hard to make that public. He is saying he knew the "humble" Chad. Dude, I have been married to a womanizer. Do you think the first lady Chad used the "I was married to you In a past life" took the bait?? Lori may have been the first to take the bait, but no doubt Chad was throwing out the bait to other women.
@@ivory8581 ….what I don’t understand is that people bought it. If someone says “Hey Wyatt, you were Jesus in another life and I was your wife Mary”. I would not be able to not laugh at them and tell them they are insane. Who believes that BS?
His gifts landed him in jail.
@@WyattRyeSway madder than a bag of frogs 😅😂
Keep an eye on Eric. I have a feeling his name will come back up as he's still touting the same ideologies and hosting secret meetings.
The fact that Chad talked about Tammy dying for 2 years prior to her death sounds like he's been planning the outcome.
Given that Mr. Smith is really, really vague about dates (even years - "it was in late 2016... maybe laye 2017"), his guesstimate of two years might well end up being six months.
Since they "prophesied" of her death for years.... My question is did Tammy know this? Or was it kept secret from her? I'm very curious if she bought into Chad's beliefs or if things were kept hidden from her. If I knew my death had been prophesied and my husband upped my life insurance, I'd be scared.....
@@lizzyham Emma, Chad's daughter, asked Julie Rowe whether Chad foresaw Tammy's death. That would indicate he kept that particular "prophesy" a secret from his family.
@Heather H Of course. Biblical prophets didn't foretell the future, but warned people of consequences if they didn't turn from the path they were on. Prophets were judges, leaders by the power of their argument & example. Fortune-telling is not prophesy no matter how many people claim someone can see the future. It is, in fact, biblically prohibited in the extreme. What is currently called "prophesy" is either a bet placed on the odds, or a commitment to action (self-fulfillment).
No one can see the future, because a single future doesn't exist, but infinite possibilities. To believe someone can see the future is to believe there is only one possible future to see, which is to believe in a single predestined fate, in which, therefore, no one has free will.
Chad himself used this fact as an excuse whenever his predictions failed. "They chose a different option than the one I saw."
@@lizzyham OMG RIGHT?!
As a person who grew up in a Buddhist household, we don't seek our past lives. Who we were does not matter. We know and accept that our current sufferings are from past life karma and should inspire us to be better people in the present. To break the vicious cycle of rebirth and death to reach enlightenment.
People do a huge disservice when they cherry pick religious concepts to "fill the gap" as Eric put it.
I have to agree here, picking and choosing half concepts of other religions for small group acceptance and small mind validation.
Christians also believe in inherited sins but just trough our past generations,but the consequences are the same,to try to do better.The way this bunch views that just defies free will and has no purpose other than decreasing the value of the present life
21:26 I don't think Eric understands that even a broken clock is right twice a day....
What I like to know is
What exactly has Chad
done that these people still think he’s such a visionary ?
When speaking of an extreme narcisist people will say he's so charming and so on. Narcisists study other people their whole life and be only an actor. They learn you weak points and strong points then they'll play on those things to get your head space right where they want you
He told them what they wanted to hear. That they were the chosen ones. That they are the gods and saints who will lead humanity to whatever the fk cr@zy afterlife Mormons are taught to believe exists. Their egos can't bear to admit he's just a fat, horny fraud because then they'd have to face the fact that they themselves have no extraordinary claims to a spiritual destiny or whatever the flock it is they think they have.
I'd honestly like to know the answer to that too.
@@serendpity3478 EXACTLY that!!!!!
@@serendpity3478 Well said, spot on. Found Eric so condescending forgiving and understanding all who disagree with him. No tears for the murdered children or adults and their other relatives, but tears for himself and a lost friendship with the Daybell children. As one of the chief architects and salesmen of the beliefs that ruined their family how is he surprised they reject him ? Is the demeanor an act ? is he in complete denial of the repercussions his teachings have contributed too ? Does he believe he is some deep thinker and this is how he thinks deep thinkers behave ? Move over Lori predict some sort of breakdown coming for Eric when he finally listens to other voices (including Daybell children) and takes some responsibility for the role his teachings have had in this tragedy. Suspect his end times coming faster than he thinks in form of mental health breakdown. Given events, he is just to passive and calm for it to last or to be real.
Chad was gifted at conning & manipulating people……. This guy is desperately looking for something/ anything to hang on to….. look inside yourself… be happy/ content with your self…. Stop idolizing human beings! There are real con artists out there… ….Chad( a good hearted, humble guy???????!!!) that was all an act! He’s a murderer of children & women!!!!!
Very true!
And Men!!
This! This is it! 💜
exactly!
@Scruffy Topaz are y’all talking about Chad or Eric?
*⏩ I've got to say, this all sounds very narcissistic and self-serving.* As a Christian, I don't recognize the motivation of these people. It seems they are driven by what is in it for them. They've completely missed the point and lost the plot as to what Christianity is all about.
Lauren, very good job on this interview.
I agree, very selfish in my opinion...
Everybody, millions and billions all got it wrong for centuries, but not them.
I have a small thought, about the necklace that Chad "found". The necklace was found by Chad on the floor at his church. You would think that Chad being a self-thought righteous man(and I say that sarcastically) would have done the right thing, and turned the necklace into the church's lost and found. The necklace was found at his church on the floor, it was not his necklace to keep so I would consider that to be stealing. This necklace would, in part and aid as a divining tool to him on which he would decide a person to be light or dark. So, for me, I can deduce that his personal truths and revelations are derived from a necklace that he stole and felt no conviction in keeping. Hmmm, I'm just sayin
Yeah, for a stolen necklace to tell you truth….maybe it’s another demonic door he opened. He opened many doors to boost himself up in his selfish mind of carnal desires. Pride and lust are not of the Father, but are of the world. And yet Chad boasted about how spiritual and unworldly he was. Masquerading as some holy man though he was probably the very “dark” thing he accused others of. Projecting onto his victims. Lori too. All the people she called “dark” was her projecting the deep darkness that was inside her actually. Their creepy rituals sound like straight up witchcraft creepiness.
Yes that is stealing especially in Church you find it you can turn it in.
Yes, an honest and humble man of God would have turned it in. It could be very meaningful to someone, like a special gift or inheritance. The true act of a narcissist!!
Interesting coincidence that Tylee Ryan's own necklace was found in a floor drain at the scene of her murder...which would be an outbuilding on chad's property~ seems he missed THAT one. It was a key piece of evidence, from what I understand.
God told him to keep it
Its taken me a LONG time to rewatch this. My first watch made me angry but after over a year of looking into LDS, COTFB, and Chad's teachings I think Eric is another naive victim. Chad, Lori even Julie hand pick these people and know the most vulnerable. Eric was clearly questioning his faith as he stated and what a PERFECT target. Its always the same story. It's the Erics, the Melanie's, the naive people who are experiencing a point in their life where they need more from their faith.... these people are predators, they are the Jim Jones, the Warren's and its terrifying.
I had no idea normal adults who lead otherwise regular lives, could be so naive. It’s very very shocking.
Oh my goodness. He's reading fiction and taking it as gospel.
Exactly!
Frightening
Very strange
It's amazing what people believe.
Religion is nonsense. Haha
Personal responsibility, logic, common sense.
Save me ... Religion?
But the gospels are fiction 🤣
I’m not a religious person but hey…’By their fruits shall ye know them’. Thanks for your great work Lauren, the more exposure this death cult gets, the better.
Blessed be the fruit
The interview Chad's neighbor gave, said her deputy son told her that it was a 1000 people exodus out of the area after the bodies were discovered and that the might be more deaths! I wonder where they are now?
Same here, and thought exactly what you said.
The Mormon religion seems to be a hot bed of cults Scary 😨
These grifters and their crazy beliefs are embarrassing 😳
Agree. They should be ashamed of themselves, but no.
It's hard to be ashamed when you are full of yourself..
Exactly 💯%
Bingo
Hucksters and grifters keeps popping into my mind. Also the pure EGO is beyond, beyond.
Rowe: I travel the Galaxy.
Also Rowe: the kids are safe.
And the world is ending in June / July of 2023, 2024 or is it 2050? She’s a complete mess
Why are people believing Rowe? How Julie Rowe talks reminds me of my dad who has schizophrenia. I hope she gets help.
This is literally like a time machine interview with a guy in the Middle Ages.
Here watching from May 2024, Lori is traveling to Arizona to catch more consecutive life sentences and Chad is in the Court Room, trying to dodge a lethal injection
What a complete waste of time and energy.... to sit around and contemplate your own "greatness" throughout time... when you could be using your human talents to help real, needy, suffering people who live in the here and now. The narcissism is beyond compare. The lack of feeling for those slaughtered by this cult is stunning. It's as if this man doesn't see life as precious at all because you get an endless supply of "do-overs." Most religions that teach reincarnation... still revere life as precious, but not these whackos.
i so agree!!!!
What horrified me is Julie Rowe spouting that she KNOWS the kids were fine and that she knows Chad's heart. Now that we know they were dead and buried on his property at that point listening to her makes me so disgusted. She should be ashamed of herself!
I think in Julie's mind, the kids were "fine" in that they were "beyond the vail" and better for it. So very sad.
Too much church can be dangerous. They were all living in an alternate universe. The Bible is a book... among millions. It has stories, but they were written by superstitious men many years ago. It has lessons but should not to be taken literally.
@@polarbearsrus6980 They aren't going by the Bible, but Joseph Smith. Which constantly refutes & twists the Bible. Which has repeatedly been proven to be accurate! Dead Sea Scrolls, science, archeology, etc all confirm it! It's about relationship with our CREATOR, not a man made religion!
In a way she was right. The kids are fine because they are in heaven, they are safe, but it is still sad that their experience was cut short, sad that they were so horrifically betrayed by the ones that should have loved them. She said that she knows Chad's heart but did not specify weather it was good or bad. Sometimes when a person is vague with their responses they can be hedging and more likely being deceptive.
@@polarbearsrus6980
Your understanding and description of the Bible is very ignorant. Describing in such terms demonstrates your lack of knowledge on the subject. Even in a non religious context. It makes other atheists look bad. Learn something before spouting opinions on subjects you don't know about.
As soon as he said he believed Chad was gifted, he lost all credibility with me
"Gift" is short for "Grift" in this case, I feel.
This interview makes sense if you replace the word gift with GRIFT.
There is something very peculiar in the water of Eastern Idaho. It seems to be killing off brain cells in some, adding delusional ideas in others, and having zero negative affect on others. The concentration of these people with such ideas-centered in such a small area of the world-really makes me curious... bizarre is what it is.
They are a dangerous cullt.The temper tantrums Julie throws on her site are horrible & the cussing is not cool.A fake b ch!
The real scare thing is that it is not confined to SE Idaho
Mormons
Birds of a feather, flock together.
It’s called LDS.
⏩ I don't know if it's more INFURIATING or HORRIFYING that NO ONE bothered to talk to Tammy, given they all "knew she was going to die!"
What a magnet for narcissists this group was. Everyone was SURE they knew who they were in their past life. Conveniently, everyone is someone well-known. Isn't it INTERESTING that NO ONE was a lowly stable boy, or chamber maid! Even if it were true, it would totally defy statistics.
In truth, these people all lack HUMILITY, a necessary component of Christianity.
With zero sarcasm: that whole aspect reminds me of children playing pretend.
It's almost like a group of adults who had complicated and unresolved childhoods who now reenact them in their middle age. But this time instead of the Pink Ranger and the Black Ranger, they're Isaiah and Moroni.
As children, obviously, no one ever consented to being the Ninja Turtles' pizza delivery guy. Everyone was assigned one of the protagonists. And remember how strongly we would then go on to identify with that protagonist?
As adults, to justify this type of a game, you'd obviously have to set up some pretty adult justifications. In this case, it's scriptural perversion and reinterpretation. But everything else about it feels the same as it did when we were kids playing pretend, and it's honestly so reality-bending watching a group of adults do it with their whole hearts.
EXACTLY!! If the husband of my friend said
to me she will die.. I'd freak out and run to her to tell her to watch Out .. for the gusband.🙄
Yes!!! I sure hope this guy reads and re-reads these comments. I’ve been saying all along what kind of person doesn’t tell a friend that people are predicting you are going to die IN A CAR ACCIDENT or otherwise within a short time. Who says those things and then keeps it a secret BEHIND HER BACK WITH OTHERS??? That’s unforgivable on every level and you r no Christian.
@@ssxu1168 the group was too busy just picking out their next mate to hook up with! don't bother telling the present mate they're going to die soon!!
Exactly. Why is it that cult leaders are always someone very special and the chosen ones? Eric is still attempting to bring the sheep to his followings. If he believes that Chad a Lori are innocent and above the people they killed or ordered to be killed then he is a very dangerous man.
Wow! The delusion is real! And it's scary! Lord, help us all!
Thank you, Lauren, for this interview! 💜
Thankfully, we don't actually need the Lord to help us, we just need to recognise what humans are in all their complexity and stay attached to reality, however tough that is at times, rather than running after fantasies....
No : No, science and reason help us all. Enough with magic beans and gods in the skies .
Just because he believes it, doesn't make it so. Some label it "visionary" some label it "mentally ill".
Sadly I could not finish this one, which is upsetting because I really been enjoying all the videos available. But these beliefs differ from mine so much that I see this is an unhealthy mentality. 3-4, 6 times a year is a huge jump by my definition.
Eric filling up with tears about not seeing or getting any response from Chad's children But not a tear in sight about the terrible murders his friend Chad participated in 💔
His friend Chad took two lives those kids will never graduate ,marry,or even breath! But what about Cjads poor kids thats breating and still has a life to live....maybe if his kids had a soical security check or they all had insurance and made out to Dad they wouldnt be here either! Go ahead and boo hoo for your friends kids! This man is as mental as his friend Chad!
@@deboraadkins-smith2092 well in January 2023 hopefully justice will be served
That part
Heaven has got to be a better place than Earth and death has always been felt most by those left behind. The dead feel not human flesh pain. Maybe they are saddened on the other side but I would hope it is more of a learning/awareness soul set for I am not sure we have a mind set when seperated from the flesh.
@@brendarobson322 what’s happening Jan 2023?
As always, Hidden True Crime does not claim to support or share the views of anyone we interview on our channel and podcast.
Sorry this guy is from another planet.
He and others like Julie Roe, Melanie Gibbs could have saved those kids. You believe in his Necklace? Unbelievable. Everyone in Chads cult has to be mentally ill. Including this but.
@@kimberlynance2711 I hope I made it clear we do NOT claim to support the views of anyone we interview. No, we do not believe in anyone’s necklace.
I’m fairly sure @kimberly was inferring that Eric believes in the necklace and not Hidden True Crime.
@@jamesstephens1979 this makes sense. Just reread it. Thank you.
@@HiddenTrueCrime 😆
I would love for you to interview the wives of joe and Eric. I would love to see their point on all this. Also Julie Rowe’s ex.
Hey girl….. I know there is only 1 Michie Hokanson!!! 👍🏼 r u into true crime? Or do u know the players? I grew up next door to The Daybells… (went on a date with Chad in Highschool). His dad, mom and brothers are great people. I knew Tammy really well in Highschool FHA presidency and seminary VP. Chad has been sick for many years….we all tried to help get him help for years and years. So sad. Great comment by the way. I have wondered what the wives feel? I know Tammy did not agree with Chad but she supported some things.
Julie Rowe is divorced
@@toniakilman9451 She just got married to someone else. Bet anything she was having an affair and that's why she left her first husband. Her divorce was just finalized in like May or June.
I would love to see these but I highly doubt they want media attention of any kind. Especially after hearing what Girl on Fire said about Jeff. I think he’s just trying to keep his head down for those (kids and extended fam) effected by the changes Julie seems to be publicly going through.
@@angelinaanderson481 what do you mean by him being sick. I was wondering if he had mental health issues
When you make up an entire religion….(Joseph Smith)
Very hard to listen to this when you know what has happened to those who lost their lives because the people they loved believed this stuff too.
I came across Eric's interviews with Julie Rowe in the wake of Daybell and Vallow's disappearance. I was staggered at what I heard. He and Julie has some crazy beliefs that no sane person would tolerate. I remember Rowe's excitement at her visits to England and possibly Australia (I'm pretty sure of the latter) in 2020. For such a self proclaimed visionary, she sure got that wrong. Her crystal ball must have been dirty because she never saw Covid on the horizon. It was pure comedy for me until I learned of all the murders.
@Scruffy Topaz did he see folks killing their kids?
That women flew well over the cuckoo's nest!!!!🤣🤣🤣
@Scruffy Topaz He didn't. All fake visionaries claim to see a black death or something similar. It can be exclaimed away by the winter flu, an outbreak of measles or whatever. It can be a flood or fire. Whatever suits their narrative will suffice.
same
Plus her proclamations about the Wasatch earthquakes have all been wrong. Now all she says is, "they're coming." 🤣🤣🤣
This guy is just as big of a kook as JR, just more soft spoken
Exactly. JR's voice sounds like a rusty dump truck.
Religion is full of kooky stuff and even mainstream Mormonism has tons of kooky bits. I don't understand all the negativity aimed at this guy. He doesn't seem to have done anything wrong. He trusted the wrong people. Every exmormon knows that feeling.
It's called
Drinking Your Own
Bath Water.
@@annwood6812 could say the same to areligious.
In other words this crazy cult continues to exist without Chad and Lory. Too bad he doesn't even know how he sounds crazy. He just jumped from one crazy cult to another one.
With the trial starting it has renewed my interest in this rabbit hole of convoluted beliefs. Listening to this interview tells me one thing, if my spouse starts predicting my demise, I'm going to the authorities and then running away from him. Holy cow!
Man I love a good Holy Cow comment! Haha. I am way delayed reading this. But this guy is wicked!
I meant to say he is wacked! Haha
Yes! There is a lot more cases like this in the LDS and cultures where divorce is looked down on. The spouses just conveniently die.
How do you know they had spiritual gifts?
They told me so themselves
😂😂
This guy is as whackadoodle crazy as Vallow & Daybell!!!
It sad that this poor man still thinks Chad’s near death experiences were real! The rest of us can just see that Chad was a big wussy!
⏩ Near death experiences require you be *near death* when you have the experience. Getting winded from being hit by a wave is not being near death. That is utterly ridiculous. Further, Chad told no one until 2015. I think it's clear Chad is big on fiction.
He has been deceived big time!
@@tallgirlhappyme My father a devote Catholic he died for 10min. And had a exp. He didn't talk about for long long time except to the surgeon one time a day or so after he told the Dr "you bought your father the book God and Country for his bday" Dr "yes" then my dad said "you cheap bastard you read it first!" The look on that Dr face I still remember like it was yesterday!! And it was 32yrs ago! He went on to tell us about his near death exp. But he didn't have special gifts!!
@@tchili1 HE chooses to be decieved just as THIS guy..he will end up suffering unhappy the rest of his days
@@TheForestCrone This happened to my father 30yrs ago and he past 13yrs ago. He really never talked about it. He actually talked to our priest first then little by little he told us everything. He sure wouldn't talk to strangers or write a book. It was a very personal thing and very spiritual but not in a crazy obsessed way he way already religous. These people are crazy! Do you think I could open portals since my Dad had a clinical death exp written by his Drs in his charts! Not I was laying in bed and the angels came. Nah that's a dream!! 🤯🤮
This poor man has been playing make believe.. he needs serious mental rehabilitation
He has been groomed into this cult.
@@raye271 he still needs serious help. Therapy will be the easiest part of what he will need to get away from this.
It's called
*Drinking Your Own Bath Water*
He’s brainwashed poor guy.
I must agree with the good Doctor John....these folks can't cope with "ordinary".
Yet there's beauty all around us,our earth and the wonders of our universe. ❤
ok..wow. Good on you Lauren for doing over 2 hours and reading these books. I'm 50 minutes in and struggling not to tap out bc my blood pressure is getting so high. I would probably be banned from RUclips if I posted what I'm yelling in my house right now so I'll just say wow..
Oh no, he’s so cut up about Chad’s children (mmm memories of Emma started him crying…) and having no contact, but no emotion throughout the interview about the, like, actual graphic heartless real murders of children he didn’t know, and adults who didn’t deserve their spouse’s selfish, murderous “journeys”. Fault shmolt. He sounds like Melanie Gibb and Red, it’s apparently all about forgiveness and some journey and healing, and benefit of the doubt (forensics be damned). Unity but he leaves his LDS church. Pointing fingers but he writes books on being the First Born. His contradictions and delusions just overflow.
Exactly 💯%
Who is Red ?
@@blazefairchild465 Red is the same person as Girl On Fire, she called herself Red in her Little Red Riding Hood “parable”
@@marionrosannaanna4590 thank you 🙏🏼
This case is potentially worth billions. It can expose the criminal bloodline brit joseph smith and the mormon church...
How does he know Chad didn't just make up the entire near death experience and lie about having gifts to attract followers?
SO interesting he didn't tell anyone they were a maid or slave in a previous life. They were always Isaiah or a great leader. Please!
I saw in another video done by a body language expert he DID get it from another woman who really DID have a near death experience. He basically took her story and adopted it according to him. It was an interview from 2011.
Chadstone family know he made up his near death experiences (brother & sister in law)
Any one of these guys could have gone to Tammy and said Chad thinks you're going to die. They could have given her the chance to confront Chad and divorce the schmuck. Were they afraid if they told her then she wouldn't die? Hypocrites, not one let her know Chad sees a death revelation.
Charles & Joe Ryan tried to tell the police & on Joes part the court that cute little Lori threatened their lives & they were genuinely in fear of her crazy mind. No one listened as with most domestic cases. I had to go to court 5x over a matter of months to get a life time restraining order on a very dangerous squatter who had them convinced they had rented & lived in my home for 4 months. After doing a total clean up of the attic ,I found their suitcase with their name on the tag & the date was only 2 weeks before they came to the state from Florida. She acted like the victim & sued me for theft of her non working laptop & meds & bag of clothing, which had been turned over to her the first night. She then sat across the street for weeks waiting for her mail every day because she had applied for welfare & food stamps at my rental property a total nut case that came at me with a knife when she broke in a second time. I spent most of that summer wrapped up in lawyers & court ,she stalked me & the judge called it a domestic case, even though I had never met the lady until she was sitting in my house after being away for my job for 2 weeks. Lori has the cute little girly giggle that continues to make men believe she is the victim & everyone around her are the bad guys. Here’s hoping that the jury can see through all the fakeness although she hasn’t even been charged with half of the things she has done in her lifetime of home wrecking and going off on vacation with her family to vacations in Hawaii so they didn’t have to watch her sister die. No one though putting the suicidal sister in a mental hospital,until her sugars were leveled off ? Anyone who cared enough about sister’s condition would have seen unmediated diabetes leaves the person unable to think straight duh what a careless family the whole lot of them. I wonder how much life insurance sis had? Did her credit cards fund the family vacation? Look back Loris dad has scammed his whole life as well ,starting with his declaration of being a lawyer .
@@blazefairchild465 Alex got into legal trouble for using her credit cards.... and possibly killed her with an insulin overdose; possibly because she saw him and Lori together doing the dirty... the whole thing stinks of a generational curse, top to bottom.
@@blazefairchild465 I can’t imagine what you went through. Couldn’t the court see that she was nuts
@@kimsmith5083 no, because she never came to court she slept in the woods across the street from me & waited for her mail in my mailbox. The judge would extend my restraining order by a month ,giving her a chance to come plead her case but she did never show up. I brought in photos of her sitting with a friend across the street. Also in the woods of my neighbors private property. Also on two sides of my property that boarder a bird sanctuary,she was truly a nightmare . Finally the judge gave me the order & told me to post private property on and around the fences etc.
Chad had told Tammy that she was going to die young.
He loves selling books, getting paid for seminars and speaking engagements...and feeling important. He's the same as a 'psychic'... the religious version, telling a good story to gullible people to make a living. Gross.
This breaks my heart. I’m not religious but I can certainly tell when someone is deluded. Death is scary and no one “knows” what if anything awaits us. But the way this group feeds into itself, is troubling. I mean I had a near death experience when I was 6 I fell off my bike and scraped my knee… maybe I should write a book… 🤦♂️ it’s all literally that ridiculous.
I don’t trust anyone who thinks they have all the answers, it’s laughable and so ignorant.
@Jess Stone Arrogant. That's the exact word that I thought.
Julie Rowe is just another whack a doodle from this tragedy .She sounds like the rest of them, all desperately wanting to b famous.Excited to watch ✌️
She got butt hurt..bc Chad didn't choose her to be his queen..I'm not getting positive vibes..sorry but I am unsubscribing this channel..
@@indigohalo3421this is investigative journalism. not Lauren espousing these crazy blasphemous imo beliefs.
@@indigohalo3421 Lauren is just giving him enough rope to hang himself like the other journalist who interviewed Melanie Gibb. He could have hung her out to dry at any point. But you’re right. This is some messed up maniacal BS
@@indigohalo3421 Don't kill the messenger. Lauren is an interviewer and is being cordial someone willing to express themselves. I want to hear their stories and I don't think we should blame anyone for Chad and Lori's crimes. Lauren is not condoning nor judging the individual, she is only allowing us to listen this person's experience.
@@Cali-Girl Agreed. Hearing the thoughts and beliefs of those involved, directly from their mouths and not third or fourth hand, is invaluable, even if what’s spoken is bizarre and horrifying.
One overriding theme here: MAGICAL THINKING!!
This guys interview answers are like real life lesson on confirmation bias. From the beginning, it seems that anything that brings him comfort is welcomed and given the benefit of the doubt while anything that doesn't do that is dismissed. I think this mindset is especially intense in the Mormon church, as they teach that getting a "burning in the bossom/heart" is how they can confirm the message of Joseph Smith is true, so many of them seem to believe they can confirm ANYTHING is true in this manner. If you pay attention to the testimony of those involved, it's one thing they all share in common. They speak as though they have the ability to discern truth from lies using this technique.
I am liking this because I am Mormon and I think you are right. Actually we are meant to use our minds and hearts, I mean hell my burning bossom fooled me into marrying a loser...twice! Haha. The reality is life is unpredictable. I think God is real. Nevertheless, life is hard. And sometimes it is amazing. I was never taught to blindly believe.
His wife is on thin ice. If the marriage becomes unhappy, he may just go to one of his past life wives. The door is always open in this way of thinking.
I think you get all of these interviews because you are so good at remaining dispassionate (I think that’s the word I’m looking for but if I think of a better one I’ll let you know). I’m so angry, frustrated, amazed at the things that have happened. People are dead and kids for sure were murdered. They may have some question as to Tammy and even Alex. And I guess there are those people who will say Charles wasn’t murdered even though of course he was. But the kids were for sure without a doubt murdered. And they are on chads property! How do these people get passed that?
Anyway - my point was that you are very good at talking to people when for me, you wouldn’t even be able to see my pupils since my eyes would have rolled so far to the back of my head at some of these comments. So I appreciate your interviews a lot.
Kudos to you Lauren for keeping a straight face through all of this because I had to take a break. He was giving to much crazy for one sitting for me.
Amen to that.
My thoughts EXACTLY! I'm surprised my eyes haven't gotten stuck from all the eye rolls. He sounds like a loon just like his buddies Chad and Julie!
@@jennadyan , I had to stop watching for fear of WHIPLASH from saying NO NO NO !!!!!!!
@@tinazamora6409 👍🤣😂🤣 Right!
Same
Man he sounded so cold and dismissive regarding Tammy.. sick
They all sound as if it is acceptable. Melanie Gibb about Charles and kids. I will have sleepless nights of people around me speak like that about death, zombies etc.
This guy was in tears over CD's kids... But when it came to the two kids who were *murdered* he didn't seem to care in the slightest!!!
Remember, he knows Chad and Tammy’s children personally. He never met the murdered children. That’s the only reason I can think of for why he reacted that way.
This guy proves how pervasive beliefs can be and it’s absolutely terrifying. So many have committed atrocities in the name of religion and deeply held damaging beliefs.
So right. It’s time for science , reason and acknowledging we are all we have and we hold our now and our kids future in our hands . Otherwise ? We’re leaving our problems unaddressed and wishing things would change . When people say they’ll pray about whatever ? I ask they get up and do something about it after their finished praying .
Not just off the rail religion but also fascism, communism and atheism - think North Korea, Stalin, Hitler etc. In fact any ideology that does not have compassion at the centre (the true Jesus) can be used to excuse many atrocities.
This person may have good intentions but is also himself free of critical thinking skills, almost bereft of reason. Very hard to talk to someone who confirms truth through his own intuition and satisfaction with his perception of the "holy spirit" and just rides with that.
Yep. Half of America.
he is very mixed up and scripture teaches that God is not the author of confusion and also that the bible is not for private interpretation
Even if you just go by the 10 commandments, look at 7 and 10. Do not commit adultery and do not covet your neighbor’s wife or belongings.
If you want to follow Jesus and the teachings of the Bible you can not believe in reincarnation.
@@SusieQUnleashed (news alert, it’s all fake, the Jesus stuff too)
Dark voices and light makes me thinks of chads rating system. His belief system seems dangerously close to Chad’s.
Oh my! And Julie Rowe’s soul trafficking sounds very much like the Zombie idea. At least it’s not far from that.
Yeah, he places too much importance on gifts a man has, as if gifts inflate that person's worth. It is easy to be deceived. Many people want to "fill the holes", as he put it and will accept false doctrine to make it fit the story they want. The truth is not always as easy to accept, and God's truth is an act of faith, not meant to make is feel better about the plot.
Others have said Eric started this belief system and Eric is the one who taught Chad. He is dangerous because he still doesn't take accountability or realize how off track he is.
Agree 100%
Exactly. Lock him up already.
He keeps saying he loves truth. So sad. So deluded
I recently heard someone say that they only believed things that were "facts". Yet, when they explained their "facts" to me, they were based upon someone else's opinion.
I really believe there are different truths for different people. Last US election and Covid vaccines speak to this. I’m not saying his truth is my truth. But, it works for him and gives him comfort. The only part I couldn’t live with was Donna Seraphina, Chad Daybell, and Julie Rowe being “talented”. My truth believes that any talent these individuals have is manipulative, evil, and to be avoided.
These people do not know the truth at all. The LDS church was founded on lies and they are constantly in the news for abuse of children and now all this. More crimes are committed by this horrible religion.
@@jijic3447 so true.
But this is part of the human condition., and could be said of ANY organization of people.
Religious, Military, Education, Corrections,
Social, Political... Etc.
Omg just now getting caught up on your old Daybell shows, Lauren... how in the world were you able to conduct these interviews and not come unglued at these people??! This guy Eric is gonna need a ton of counseling someday. I can't hardly stand listening, he's still so in the mindset, so egotistical, "I know church history that very few people know," "most Christians evade these scriptures" etc. etc. yet so quick to distance himself from the cult chaos he actually helped create. He keeps saying "when the media started spreading all this" as though the media's to blame for murdered kids and murdered spouses??? Ewwwww gimme a break!
"gave him answers HE WAS LOOKING FOR "is very telling.
Right? Gave him answers to accommodate his narrative. No critical thinking involved!
This is so heartbreaking on the mental illness of this group of people. :'( This is so disturbing to me how mixed up these people are. They are going down the wrong the path. .
How professional is Lauren? I could not hold it together like her with some of the things he is saying!
Totally agree. She is a total professional!
One thing I agreed with him about was how Lori brought her murdering skills into this “dream team.” Chad was egotistical and lusting, but Lori had know-how after already killing Joseph Ryan, getting his social security, etc. Chad just wanted in her pants and to be this all powerful leader of the 144,000. Lori wanted to be a translated being and warrior - and I suppose was lusting for Chad too (yuck) - and was able to bring Alex in to be the avenging angel to do all the dirty work. It’s unfortunate you have all these other players that are so desperate to be part of the cult.
Eric… when people disagree with you… they aren’t being honest with themselves?
What if you aren’t being honest with yourself and don’t want to admit you were fooled by a sociopathic con man? Nothing to be ashamed of, those personality types are very gifted at conning people. In my opinion… that’s the only thing he’s gifted at… most of what he “visioned” was made up… in my opinion.
As in his statement it says that they "Pitched" this ideal. I think it's sounds as if they are making up ideals for more "books" and to make them sound important and interesting 🙄
OMG, Julie can see all the kids who are being trafficked!! She should get with the FBI and put a total end to human trafficking.
Julies ego is unbelievable..! everything she does comes from ego and not her heart. not a pleasant woman
Yeah right...she...Julie... didn't see Tylee and JJ DECEASED either. Wake up Eric Smith. You should listen to yourself. Man you are sad.
Corruption is EVERYWHERE!
My initials are vjs too
Do people believe Julie ??
I am not anti american, but how can the 144000 be all americans? What about the rest of the world?
Of course. I’m with you on this. How prideful to think that only a small group of people in the USA in Idaho are to be spared. What a laugh. We in the UK and the rest of Europe, Middle East, Africa and Australasia regions beg to differ…. But then in America, the rest of the world doesn’t exist.
The Book of Revelation says that those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel.
From the tribe of Judah 12,000 were sealed,
from the tribe of Reuben 12,000,
from the tribe of Gad 12,000,
from the tribe of Asher 12,000,
from the tribe of Naphtali 12,000,
from the tribe of Manasseh 12,000,
from the tribe of Simeon 12,000,
from the tribe of Levi 12,000,
from the tribe of Issachar 12,000,
from the tribe of Zebulun 12,000,
from the tribe of Joseph 12,000,
from the tribe of Benjamin 12,000. CHAD AND ALL WHO THOUGHT THEY WERE THE 144,000 ARE SO HIGH ON THEMSELVES (and obviously didn't/don't read the Bible)! Sad that I share my nationality with those kooks.
@@corinnewinterrousset these kooks probably don't think the rest of us Americans exist. They are in their own sick little world.
You’re not supposed to notice that
Hahahahaha so true!! And out of billions of human beings there are 144,000 and these cool guys know like 30 of them????
This is incredibly sad. I’m grateful he came forward and was brave to speak - however he is still clearly deeply entrenched in these cultish beliefs. It was like listening to Melanie Gibb who still called Chad “kind” and “gifted.” Important and insightful interview. Now if you can just get Julie Rowe…
He’s likely schizotypal
What I see are a group of people who have a need to feel important and greater than people outside their group and to influence (manipulate) those around them.
Exactly! And how high on your own self would you have to be to proclaim you were Isaiah. They manipulate people into believing by telling them they were Joan of Arc, or Mary Magdelene. Make someone feel special to draw them in. Do they ever just say haaayyyy there bud! You were Karen. You lived in 1978 and no one gives a crap about you and you did nothing cool.
The longer he talks the more convinced I'm getting that this guy is more likely to be at the top of this cult's pyramid than Chad. 👀
About 11-12 minutes in and I'm laughing so hard. I can't decide if this guy is a shyster or a kook.
He’s a self deluded charlatan
In my day (and I’m old) we would call him a snake oil salesman. He speaks with forked tongue.
@@marideathydeelz914 Yes! Perfect description that he speaks with a forked tongue!
😂 😂 😂 💜💜💜
He's BOTH!
I appreciate Eric's willingness to speak about many aspects of his experience, the evolution of his understanding and to share his evolving viewpoints. It was an interesting interview- Lauren, thank you and Eric too, for your time and attention to the thinking and beliefs that informed and became deformed to create the horrible, despicable series of events- that, to quote Eric 'will continue to effect' deeply family, friends, and communities. Lauren, the open safe space you provide is helpful for me and I see here and through other videos too, it is helpful for many others. Gratitude:)
Hahaha this guy is still drinking the koolaid. Hes still believing Chad's BS.....
*Years later--the owner of Chad’s stolen necklace from the church parking lot watching this now.*
👁️👄👁️
😭😭😭😭
Makes you wonder WTH is going on with the LDS church.
There will always be "unexplained" things--it requires faith. I find this horrifying, these folks are so lost.
We are all lost until found. Any gifts are from the Father, not from man.
I think Eric and all of these in this cult have low self-esteem which is why they feel the need to give themselves so much ego/credibility, that they were all these great people in past lives and that they think they are so prophetic and can predict the future (yet they are always wrong). And they call them "gifts." It feels very evil and wrong to me, and it makes me question their sanity that they actually believe this stuff!! 😳 Yeah, explaining Chad as quirky and odd seems accurate.
Oh yes. Hit the nail on the head.
You have got it. People with healthy self esteem have no need to belong to groups or to be pridefully raised above others in status etc. They are secure in themselves, in their beliefs and their healthy self esteem allows them to listen to others opinions without being threatened or thinking everyone else is wrong. Chad has most likely always felt like a loser, hence his need to be special within his religion, that’s the only captive audience he could muster. He couldn’t get it from his profession. Dead people don’t engage with the living. Just with Chad…. Ok. See where this is going? Sorry to be so cynical but these people’s beliefs have zero to do with Jesus Christ and everything to do with his adversary. Thou shalt not murder.
He thinks he was an exalted angel and great leaders but came back as a nobody. Talk about a demotion. Funny how no one was previously a joe schmoe.
How could he have seen all this death and zombies, and not see what his true life was turned into. It’s all BS sex, money and power.
Did you write the Opening Statement for the Prosecution? Spot on !
There was a gal named Julie (not Julie Rowe) in Lauren’s lunch live last week at the courthouse who said she would be telling her story soon. And she mentioned Eric Smith too as being a “good person”. So these people have had a change of heart? Would love to see an update on Eric’s beliefs 2 years after this interview.
The fact that this guy entertains the idea that he possibly is/was Isaiah of the Old Testament among a multitude of hypocritical and contradictory statements speaks volumes. He uses statements about Chad’s “ego”…but doesn’t ever acknowledge his own or take any kind of responsibility for his personal teachings and nonsense.
This interview makes me feel so sad for Eric. He comes across as someone who’s so lost and is trying to make sense of his own “hard” life by looking at ghosts. I really hope he can get some legitimate help.
Google how people end up in a cult as a follower. It states those people are at their lowest low, craving to belong somewhere, believe they are loved and too weak to find their own safe path. These things are what cult leaders look for to bring in new members. It's very sad.
I wonder what Dr. John thinks of this guy. He reminds me very much of my major depressive disordered son who is looking for anything to fill his empty soul.
So condescending.
@@Fluidx808 who is condescending? I mean Eric is obviously not right in the head..of course people are going to be condescending towards him 🤣
Definitely
Eric keeps banging on about how bloated ego is a problem, but he is suffering from that condition. He has no humility and is sure he's right and everybody who doesn't share his view is wrong.
Yes, he is elevating himself to be a god in his mind, thus breaking God's 1st commandment!
Exactly 💯%
Eric can't see that he is part of the problem .
Agreed!! Humble brag much?
I keep thinking why would these people still follow Julie after she's admitted being off her medication. Now my thoughts are wandering to is Julie crazy?? Or crazy like a fox maybe? Was she just covering her butt?!? I don't think she is involved in murder but she 200% took people's money! Especially the elderly I feel like hurting the old and children is a huge sin in my eyes!! 💔🙏😓💜💙🕊️🕊️🕊️🕊️🕊️ 👩⚖️👨⚖️🧑⚖️⚖️ Justice for the victims!!
Right ? !
The true christian church which is called the Bride of Christ does teach the scriptural teaching of casting out demons and the taking up of believers which is referred to as the rapture. Joseph Smith was a false prophet
The beauty of Christianity not Mormonism is that it stays the same. You don’t have to stray from the Bible. Heaven is described so you know what is ahead. It is more simple. I like Hidden True Crime but Mormonism is way out there. I suggest reading the Bible. I worry with all these different versions of what they say the “Lord” has told them. I suggest that more needs to be questioned about who everyone is listening to. In Christianity, we say the Holy Spirit which is God.
He needs deprogrammed
Watching him ‘tear up’ when talking about Chad’s kids .. and shows NO EMOTION when discussing the BRUTAL HEINOUS MURDER OF TYLEE! What in the hell is wrong with this guy. I am disgusted. Speaks of satanic ritual with out emotion .. but cries because Chad’s kids won’t be his friend!
To be fair he didn't know any of the others.
@@terintiaflavius3349 That scapegoat doesn't excuse lack of empathy!
And Tylee was dismembered! That made ME tear up!
They are all satanic. When I was a Christian we would often refer to LDS as satanic , ritualistic and feeling they were better than anyone else.
I find it endlessly irritating how these cult followers keep calling “telling eachother fake stories about reality” ….learning. These aren’t teachers and you aren’t “learning” anything. You are all lying to eachother and making up daydreams to attempt to make a hard life easier or more easy. When you go to school and learn something unquestionable like mathematics, that’s actually learning.
So the guy is making judgments about not making judgments. You really can’t make this up. He actually believes he is intelligent. So does Chad.
"Chad's gifts' are the basis for all good con artists. Manipulation, reading people's needs, etc. why they say even Charles Manson had the gift of 'reading people' very well!
I am sorry, I will never understand how it is people are so easily led by others. So many of these people were sucked into the Dumbbell Vallow vortex and they are still having problems letting go of their 'dream' of being part of the exclusive 144,000. Thanking my parents for teaching me that self reliance beats blindly following others!
(Relative to being married to Julie Rowe in a past live & his response) Oh good grief!! Can they all just accept that they can & are attracted to other people besides their spouses!! It’s call being human and normal! Whether you act on that or not is determines by your character.
“This (my) belief system fills in ALL the gaps.” How very omnipotent this guy is. He thinks he knows more than “mere mortals”…which is how he rates anyone who does not follow the doctrine of Eric Smith. Does this rating system remind anyone else of Chad’s light/dark? Zombie or allowed to live? This guy needs a trigger warning. In my opinion, he speaks for a completely different spirit. And, he can see other’s EGO, but he has no mirror to observe his own?
DING! DING! DING! 🔔🔔🔔 🙄
Truth.Hes an idiot!
One can fill even a cavernous gap with garbage; that Eric is satisfied means nothing. Yes, reincarnation is an extremely common belief the world over. That does not make it 6rue or false. It does not follow that the believing life is a "probation", or that all are married, or that some are "sealed", or that any of Eric's beliefs accompany those of people who believe in reincarnation -- any more than it means that Eric shares their beliefs that slugs have souls, or that sex/gender/attraction varies lifetime to lifetime, or that cannabis is a vehicle to join the mind of the gods, or that bathing in the Ganges could never spread the germs of the sewage floating in it.
On the other handover, people ARE prejudiced against any new belief system. There is no reason for that; it has stunted humanity's spiritual growth since the invention of writing in stone. When any scripture references the "Word of God", it is NEVER referencing the scripture; scripture cannot self-reference, for it did not exist as it was written. Therefore, it has to be referring to something else -- something not in the fire, not in the whirlwind, not in the Bible or any writing -- but in the still, small voice... (1 Kings 19:11-13).
Perhaps people can't hear God's Word anymore, because they have Bibles stuffed in their ears.
The highest teaching of the LDS is to listen to that still, small voice in one's heart, for each must work out their own salvation (Phillipians 2:12).
Well said…
Um
Dude! What scriptures are you reading???
He’s “filling in the gaps” ( with his own whims ) lol lol
Not the historical Bible. Doctrine matters. My heart breaks for the demonic deception of these people.
Chad: "Lori, you're special. In fact, we were married in a past life! We are soul mates, destined to be cosmic companions for all time."
Lori: "Wow! I'm so blessed to know that, but I'm married now to another man and you're married now to another woman."
Chad: "True, but these marriages are temporary, while ours is eternal and supersedes our current unions."
Lori: "So, if we make love, we're not committing adultery?"
Chad: "Absolutely! In fact, when we make love to our current spouses we're committing adultery against our eternal union."
Lori: "How could our current spouses deceive and seduce us into such unholiness?"
Chad: "Lori, my love, my light, it's because they are dark, and need to be removed unto the light. We need to take care of this separately; I'll remove Tamara for us and you remove Charles for us, sealing our love!"
Lori: "Chad, my darling, our love is pure, holy, everlasting! I will do what needs to be done to prove my undying devotion for you! The Lord will protect and exalt us. Our mission is just."
Jesus specifically said there is NO marriage in heaven when asked the question about whose wife a woman would be in heaven if she was married to multiple men