I would have them be able to unhinged and hyper extend their limbs to get out of grapples and reverse into pinning a creature, as well as grapple even larger creatures. While a creature or object is grappled at the start of their turn, the monk can choose to inflict 2 rolls of their martial arts dice to them as bludgeoning damage. A lot of things to figure out, but I really like the flavor. Also if someone misses them with a melee attack they can use a reaction pull them into a grapple with advantage.
If you were interested in 3rd party materials I know that the “Way of the Noble Serpent” exists in the Compendium of Forgotten Secrets. I played that subclass during a one-shot and really enjoyed it. It’s a snake-themed grappler monk.
Maybe use a ki point for this: have them be able to use the grappler feat bullet point for pinning. But instead make it that while the monk is restrained, the target is incapacitated instead. That way they are grappled and completely locked down in return for the monk's vulnerability to being attacked. That way you actually get something for it. Maybe even they remain incapacitated after release for a number of rounds equal to how many rounds you held on to them.
Everyone keep an eye out for the giff in Spelljammer! Giff will apparently get advantage on Strength checks (which should apply to this), so maybe we’ll have another option, with some free Gunk synergy on the side. The Plasmoid may also be quite good.
@@Adurnis A Warlock / Ranger would be adding some Reallllly silly damage numbers, considering you're pulling 4 (Attack *2, Flurry *2) attacks most rounds, 6 with Surge.
Maybe the grappling fighting style can be used to damage the creatures you're grappling every attack you make with the attack option. So like an 11th level fighter could Attack( grab, shove, attack) and deal +2d4 damage. Maybe protection could let you use a bonus action with a shield to give you half cover at 5 which ends the start of your next turn or if you use a reaction. At 11 make it 3/4 and 20 full?
@@SilvrSavior That is how the UA version of Unarmed Fighting Style worked, applying the bonus 1d4 bludgeoning damage when you grappled and with each weapon attack. Which, admittedly, made it way too powerful compared to the other fighting styles. I'd say just giving back the bonus damage when initiating a grapple alongside the current bonus damage each turn to grappled targets would be the better middle ground, given my personal experience on how seldom creatures remain grappled for multiple turns. They either die or get movement effected out the grapple before the grappler's next turn so often (which, in turn, makes it harder to even remember the start of turn damage, since the unarmed fighter sees it come up only occasionally). Honestly, instead of making Fighting Styles scale/upgrade with Extra Attack (especially just for the Fighter, since it's not the only class that gets them), the better homebrew would probably be to just give the Fighter an additional base class fighting style. I'd say probably just at level 5 alongside Extra attack number one. All the martial classes should have something or another to pair with getting Extra Attack at level 5 to flavor themselves, and that's basically just the Fighter that doesn't get that. With how few Fighting Styles there were in the PHB, it was understandable why that bone wasn't thrown to them originally, but makes a lot of sense now.
My favorite race for grapple builds is SIMIC HYBRID. They get grappling appendages and nothing is more satisfying that tying up SIX dudes in one fight. (Yea I know Astral Arms technically don't grapple but I've never had a DM say no, even in AL). Only other difference in my own grapple builds is I like to go Echo Knight for fighter. When you're using your fists, the Echo just makes an awesome JoJo reference. This can also be a good get-out-of-jail-free card if your dogpile gets a bit too dangerous. Oh, and you can't forget grabbing a handful of people and then jumping off a cliff, just to Echo swap to safely. I call this the unvaxxed kid.
Another great thing with giants might and way of astral activation. By becoming larger the area you affect with the activation goes up meaning you can actually get a decent number of people to be hit by the astral arm activation.
This monk could be a specialist of the dragon pinion power bomb. Use a reaction to invoke slow fall to reduce your own fall damage. (Narratively rolling so that The dragon lands underneath while you elbow drop of course)
I wanted to shout out the Charger feat for grapplers. I'm playing currently playing a Rune Knight 11/Genie Lock 3 (Dao) and I'm able to drag people and reliably get an attack in to make the most out of the "First attack to hit on your turn" features from Rune Knight/Genie.
i think a half elf would work. You could get two 16 and a 17 in your stat and instead of increasing wisdom at level 4 you take skill expert. that way you get expertise in athletics which while not as good as advantage is pretty good until you get giant's might
The first 5e character I was able to play (forever DM) was a monk/barbarian grappler, and it was a lot of fun. Looking forward to see what you come up with.
One of the greatest contributions a monk has ever given in one of my games was when we were fighting a vampire like monster, I had paralyzed it but we had no way to permanently kill it and had no idea where his coffin was. So we had the monk use his semi infinite movement to grapple the fucker and bring him two floors up to the surface in the sun before the paralysis could end, was incredible.
Instead of Kenku I think grabbing Fey Touched for a boost to wisdom and access to the Hex spell is a stronger option. This lets us give the enemy disadvantage on the opposed check while letting us smack them for more damage at the same time. It is also able to stack with giving ourselves advantage with Rune Knight later on.
That or early skill expert(advantage gets way less important as you level up you'll have a +9 difference in modifiers on a 24 strength creature by level 13) and if you did go feytouched a 1 lvl cleric dip or a druid dip instead of rune Knight(for enlarge when you need it) would be my take, so you get more than one hex and some other useful utility (like shillelagh at early levels).
A neat trick is to grapple two opponents and repeatedly run up a wall before falling back to ground level, they take the fall damage, you don't thanks to slow fall. You also get to attack them with advantage since they're prone.
Some interesting choices but there's a glaring problem: grappling an enemy puts a big target on your head for attacks from them. And there's nothing which gives this character the ability to tank hits. This is why barbarians work so well, they can start a grapple and survive being that target. Best approach in my opinion is to accept lower Dex or wisdom and invest in barbarian.
Put them Prone, they have disadvantage to attack, which also sets you up to beat on them while they are down. Mid level you could "Grapple", "Push", Action Surge, (With Advantage) Attack, Attack, Flurry, Flurry. Which is kind of Horrifying... Then your opponent either Attack you with Disadvantage, or Breaks out of the Grapple (which still leaves him Prone, as his move = 0)
@@lokithecat7225 This is true, although it still leaves you in the frontline and requires you succeed two consecutive grapple/shoves so there's risk to it. Better to go with patient defence, but even then monk AC isn't scaling that quickly and their hit points still aren't fantastic. Also still in the frontline so other enemies can cause problems. Idk, grapple and tanking work, but grapple and damage dealing aren't a fantastic combination, felt like a weird choice to try to maintain baseline damage.
@@dungeondr You can also drag the dude off the "Front Lines" in a party setting... Like the Tank goes "Up Front" with you, you "Yoink" someone and drag him back 20" and the rest of the Party Ganks him... Probably situational, but compared to high level "Crowd Control" it's hard to deal with, especially as your "Legendary Resists" can't shrug off a Grapple / Restrain. Probably not optimal "DPS" build, but for a Crowd Control specialist, it's probably a Solid Choice.
@@bozieu Nope, the Arms can't Grapple. They only have the extra 5" Reach when you make an Unarmed Strike with them. They "Help you" with the stat swap, but they can't Grab things for you.
25:57 The wording for Savage Attacker is that is must be a melee weapon attack. An unarmed strike is not an attack with a melee weapon, but I do believe that they are melee weapon attacks. I remember seeing a discussion about this with regards to an unarmed Paladin, and why fists don't count for smites (requiring attacks with a melee weapon) but do count for other things
The issue actual comes with the line, "you can reroll the weapon's damage die" (PHB, pg. 169) as unarmed strike is a melee weapon attack made without a weapon, "Instead of using a weapon to make a melee weapon attack, you can use an unarmed strike" (PHB, pg. 195 One could argue for the Monk and Savage attacker that since an unarmed strike is taking the place of a weapon it would be applicable for Savage Attacker. The same logic could be applied to the Paladin's Divine Smite as it states "when you hit a creature with a melee weapon attack, you can expend one spell slot to deal radiant damage to the target, in addition to the weapon's damage" (PHB, pg. 85)
One setting specific race that could also be strong for this character is Simic Hybrid from Ravnica. With Grappling Appendages, you have even more arms to grapple with. Also, there's the Manta Glide tech that doubles your movement since you can jump 1 feet into the air and glide 2 feet forwards. That combined basically means you have huge mobility and can carry up to 6 huge sized creatures at the same time.
Something to note is that Fire Rune requires you to make an "attack with a weapon" so you can't use it with Unarmed Strikes. Not a problem to pull out the quarterstaff and then drop it if you have a free hand, but it can cause a conflict if you already have two creatures grappled.
@@andrewnorth1471 They are melee weapon attacks, but they are not attacks with a weapon. This is why Crawford says you can't smite with Unarmed Strikes, because while they are weapon attacks, smite requires an attack with a weapon. I know it sounds silly, and something as a DM I'd probably have no problem changing, since it almost exclusively hurts monks and no one else, but RAW it does not work.
The DM on the Rolling with Difficulty podcast had a fun interpretation of the rules here. He allowed the astral self monk to use wisdom for all the barbarian class features, including the multiclassing requirements. It's definitely not RAW but with how relatively weak monks are it's probably not a bad homebrew rule to use, and it's definitely thematic. The monk/barbarian player ended up going for a tank playstyle with the ancestral guardian, but there's probably a fun grappling giant barbarian/astral self monk build in there, if you buy your DM a pizza :3
I made a custom subclass that focuses on Judo-style grappling where you grab and throw your opponents around the battlefield. Adding throwing to grappling makes grappling so much more useful. Instead of being tied up with one opponent, which comes in handy only during boss battles where there is one big bad with no minions, grappling gets turned into a form of battlefield control where you're throwing enemies into other enemies and creating piles of prone enemies around the battlefield.
I have always felt that although a powerful build race like an orc or Goliath isn’t essential, it does allow for counting one size larger to drag your opponents when grappled. My personal favourite is an orc rune knight for second wind after relentless endurance and multi attack with giants might grappling combined with skill expert for expertise in athletics
I think there's an argument to take 1st level in fighter. Proficiency in CON saving throws is going to help you more than proficiency in DEX saving throws until you get diamond soul. And you do end up with 1 more point of HP. Granted, I would mostly do this if joining a campaign at level 6+. This decision will make you drop notably below the baseline at level 1 (be slightly better 2-4 thanks to the fighting style) and then once again drop below baseline at level 5. And you also won't be able to grapple until character level 4 instead of character level 3.
This is probably the ultimate monk grappler in a solo scenario, but in a group advantage is often simple to get. Chris gives so many options, and reiterates his thinking so clearly! Love the astral self monk.
When I saw your precursor video, I fiddled with it and came up with Tabaxi Rune Knight and Psi-Knife. The rogue Steady Aim optional rule to move 0 and get advantage works with the Tabaxi need to stop. You have expertise for athletics, psi-bolstered knack to add to your grapple check, advantage on the grapple check and large size through Giant's Might, and Cunning Action to get a Dash. All of this comes online at level 6.
My monk's career high was when he stunned an aboleth out of the sky and rode it Strangelove style crashing to the sea. The ruling we arrived at was the aboleth takes its own fall damage, automatically fails the save against being landed on by my monk, taking half of my fall damage, and then Slow Fall reduced the damage I took. Like you said, this is best case scenario, and the aboleth effectively took 30d6 falling damage while my monk took none. We went with the rule of cool and didn't worry about it being OP or exploited, partly because it was only one of many strong creatures in that days-long battle, and partly because I had no intention of trying to replicate it
Monk/Barbarian is pretty fun, but you are right that it's MAD. If you are rolling for stats, that's when you wanna try and go for it. I've done it, and Mercy monk/Beast Barbarian has lead to a crazy strong and deep character to play with. A classic fight for control with the beast within.
now hear me out, squeeze in fey touched (wisdom) for a BA teleport, grapple and run setup. and also get access to hex, which can nuke the targets STR or DEX ability checks, as well as add damage since it's whenever you hit with an attack.
I'm excited to see how the new hadozzee race works when spelljammer comes out. WOTC were talking about how they can use their feet as well as they can their hands, so I'm wondering if you could make a build where you grapple with your feet and climb with your hands and then drop creatures for fall damage + prone condition then fail on them with your hands
Climbing doesn't require Hands Free... But a creature with Climb Speed would still have an easier time in general (until you can Monk up Vertical Surfaces).
The description of Slow Fall doesn't actually say you fall slower. It just says you reduce the damage, like you're martial arts make you good at tumbling or distributing the impact.
I’ve always wondered about exactly how slow fall works: when I read the Feather Fall spell, it specifies even the rate at which the target’s fall speed is reduced. But when they wrote Slow Fall, they could’ve written it similarly to Feather Fall, but they didn’t. It doesn’t mean even mention the monk’s fall speed, but just says that the monk doesn’t take fall damage from (X) height. So I can’t tell if it was an oversight or not, so I’ve been ruling it as a controlled fall, like parkour, or in some cases, just a cool looking 3-point landing.
Excellent video. Pretty sure this is your definition of an excellent tank. Like you have all saving throws that you specifically want, you have the ability to move bad guys away from the squishy's in 1 turn. All you need is more hit points.
I love it! One day the possibilities will be exhausted and then we can rest assured Treantmonk had the last word! This is effective and absolutely hilarious. I WILL play this build next time I don’t have to DM. Thank you Treantmonk!
I created a backup character just like this. It's very All-Might in nature. Glad the concept have you a reason to try the subclass considering your review of it. Way more interesting to grapple than do the usual flurry and stuns.
For my monk, I started with fighter for unarmed fighting style (1d8 per punch), and got a battle master maneuver and picked the grappling strike which gives a bonus action grapple using the maneuver dice to add to the athletics check, which picked as a proficiency.
This Video really shows me that there should be a sage advice, to say that monks can use features that require attacks using a weapon, with their unarmed strikes.
Slow fall doesnt actually slow your fall, it just make you take less damage, so its more of a special landing than an actual slow fall like feather fall spell.
It should be noted, if allowed, Plane Shift: Amonkhet has the Naga race, probably the spiciest thing in all the PS books- In addition to being to immune to poison, It has an unarmed body attack: If you hit with your constrict attack, you deal bludgeoning damage equal to 1d6 + your Strength modifier, and the target is grappled (escape DC 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Strength modifier). Until this grapple ends, the target is restrained, and you can't constrict another target. Monk 1, can make the constrict attack using dex. Also could hold 3 dudes in Cloudkill, one being restrained (hand holds would require str or something though)
Bless you kind sir for all your monk fan service. You've helped make my favored class much more playable and fun. (credit goes to Dm as well for allowing your fix). Have you considered the somewhat limited grapple rules and how they may be given flavor without becoming overly complex? The rules neglect things like chokes, joint locks and using grappling leverage al la MMA to break bones, disable? What do you think? Too complex/OP?
Wouldn't Variant human skill expert be better than Kenku? Expertise in athletics is only really worse than advantage at levels 3-4 when you don't have extra attack yet anyway. And once you get Rune Knight at level 8 you're golden as your racial benefit is synergizing with your class features rather than becoming kinda redundant.
I was thinking that too, but the key here is being able to move and drag grappled targets around, not just hold them still. The idea of moving two squares, initiating a grapple, and pulling a target back four squares while giving your allies better positioning can be better than just making yourself and an opponent "stuck"
I'm actuality surprised he didn't mention Dhampir. Your bite is a monk weapon and you can use it to get advantage on your str checks easily, not to mention spider climb is a great way to drag enemies up walls
Hadozee grappler monk... With jump-glide shenanigans, unarmored movement, and bonus action dash, even though your movement is HALVED you can drag two enemies 160ft at level 5. Bring on that spike growth ;)
I’m playing a shadow monk multiclassed into rogue for expertise and cunning action. Not optimized to any crazy degree, but it creates an incredibly versatile action economy, and expertise in athletics to isolate, lockdown, and shut an enemy out of combat is a blast
In regards to Slow Fall, nothing in the mechanical description says that you literally fall slower, like Feather Fall does. So I would assume that the grappled enemy takes full damage.
So I did a grappler build a few weeks ago. I went barbarian/rune knight strength constitution as the focus. I did a tortle an bugbear. Tortle have claws and the bugdear reach. The tortle with it's AC and claws was just a dominate force. I picked the grappler feat and unarmed combat. Even naked this caricature is armed and dangerous. lol
26:50 You could also use Skill expert and Resilient feats both for wisdom to get 20 Wis and Wis saving throw prof. Then boost Dex with different ASI. That is if not going to Monk 14.
a grapple build i've had in mind is rune knight 5/rogue 2(for cunning action and experties)/ fighter x. This way you get superb grappling and the extra mobility from the rogue, and you are basically a straight fighter and we know that those aren't bad
This is very interesting! I would have done this completely different. Tortle takes the weight off your dex and wisdom, and allows you to build on strength, and then multiclass into barbarian. This also allows you to grapple from level 1. I would have gone monk 5 (since we no longer need astral self, probably mercy, but open hand also works for knocking prone with flurry of blows), barbarian 1, rune knight 3.
I have a build in mind for a few day now, trying to make the shield master useful as a tank character. The ideia is using loxodon rune knight, getting shield master at level 4 and skill expert at level 6 for expertise in atletics. So i can atk grapple, bonus action shove to prone, and 1 normal atk per turn, using the rune knight features as needed. This way i can get a good AC, pin 1 creature per turn, usually the nastiest one, and still control the battle with rune features. (also thinking in flavor changing the elephant for a insectoid, switching the trunk for a pair of arms or a scorpion tail)
If I were the DM and a monk had someone grappled and jumped off a cliff, I would let them use Slow Fall to halve their damage while the enemy takes full damage and flavor it as the monk landing on top of the enemy and using them as a cushion.
I have a personal ruling for monks that want to grapple. They make a Dexterity (Athletics) check instead of a Strength (Athletics) check like you usually would.
I know I'm late to the comments (and this could have already been stated), but I think that a Variant Human Armorer could be arguably a better grappler Athletics: Skill Expert + Enlarge + armor strength bonus (just rediculous) Movement: Long strider + Mobile + Haste! Armor class: no comparison (23 easy on armorer) DPR: likely where fighter/monk wins
The minor and temporary bump to DPR with unarmed fighting is possibly offset by Blind fighting style since this limits conditions that may give you disadvantage.
I would like to point out, that your baseline is actually what many tables consider to be fairly good. So reaching baseline at a casual table is good for many players
If the Giff race gets published unedited in the upcoming Spelljammer book there will exist a race that has advantage on strength checks that should work well with this build
Prediction now before watching: astral self monk, perhaps CL to get Fey touched for the Hex spell so you can have a capped WIS at level 4 and with Hex they have disadvantage on escaping your grapples if you guess right, plus basically doubling your damage output
If they have a +5 to STR and +3 to DEX and you guess right with Hex, they can still use the +3 Acrobatics without disadvantage. It's borderline metagaming, but a PC would 100% do that if the roles were switched.
Yeah. That is a bit of a problem. But especially at low-mid levels, unless.you are like a boss most monsters don't have both a good STR and DEX. And I would prefer using my +7 or +8 against a +3 than a +5
dnd beyond just gave a preview of the giff stats today in an article. With them having advantage on strength checks and strength saving throws might be a good choice for this when it's released in a few weeks depending on if its always on or limited use. Not to mention those insane firearm abilities making them perfect for Gunks.
@@SANSd20 Actually, now that I think about it they probably are setting agnostic. The spelljammer academy prequel adventure WoTC put out is set in the current dnd world and spelljammers let you go anywhere. Also Giff were first introduced in 5e in Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes which is also setting agnostic. Unless Spelljammer is stated as being in an alternate universe then I see no reason they should not be available to use.
I think you *should* be able to use your Astral Arms to Grapple additional targets, or to use a two-handed weapon while grappling. The Grapple Rules simply state that you need at least one free hand to grapple. The Arms of the Astral Self allow you to determine the appearance of your Astral Arms, which you could easily determine as having hands. So, while your Arms are out, you, by RAW, have two additional free hands. Or more, if you want to be really cheeky and make em have extras. In short, I believe the rules support using Astral Arms as additional hands for grappling, and I don't see anything that would make a reasonable DM rule otherwise.
Ya they basically are saying that because the rules don't specifically say you can, you can't. Which is lame logic, I say you should be able to use the arms to pick up whatever you want. It's not much if a power increase and is cooler.
RAW the arms can have all the hands you want since you choose the appearance, but the ability to grab something with them or otherwise use them as free hands is not one of the listed benefits of using the Arms of the Astral Self feature. It'd be like saying that since nothing stops you from making the arms look like cannons, the feature actually gives you shoulder mounted cannons if you want, capable of firing projectiles. I'd probably allow the arms to at least grapple, but that is more because monks need all the help they can get and also that it is rather thematic, not because I think the feature intended you to be able to do so.
@@Greg-gg2zj While there are no rules supporting the use of cannon arms to make ranged attacks, there are rules which support using hands to make grapple attempts. That's what I'm getting at here. The grapple rules simply state that you need a free hand to grapple. If your arms have hands, then it's RAW that you can use them to grapple, even if the rules of the ability itself doesn't explicitly state as such. Essentially, the absence of a ruling in the ability itself means we default to the "normal" rules. In this case, the standard rules simply state "got a free hand? You can grapple."
@@flandarz1 Like you said yourself, nothing limits these astral arms from having only one hand each. That is the danger of playing as, "Well, it doesn't say they aren't free hands, so they must count as free hands." Because that argument leads to them counting as 12 hands each, if you want. The feature says you can choose the appearance exactly because your choice of appearance isn't supposed to have mechanical impact. There is more to something being a free hand for grappling and other actions than just looking like a hand, the same way you don't have a free hand just because you attach a fake arm to your armor. The normal rule is that a character has only two hands unless a feature gives them extra appendages to perform actions. These features are very explicit about what they can and cannot do. The Thri-keen UA says their extra arms function like their primary arms with a couple exceptions. The key is that the feature established that they function like the character's "normal" arms in general, with a few exceptions. Arms of the Astral Self does not have this. None of the text indicates that they function as fully functional arms or can be used in the same way as your arms. Just that there is an explicit list of benefits your character has while they are active, and "hands to use as grappling" is not one of those benefits. Like I said, I'd probably allow grappling, at the least, but "the rules don't say a dog can't play basketball" is a dangerous baseline when making rulings. The idea that they intended astral arms to be fully functional arms, but neglected to mention that in the text is a big stretch.
@@Greg-gg2zj There's a bit of precedent in 5e about implicit vs explicit things that can be done. For example, the Mage Hand Cantrip, and Unseen Servant Spell (and pretty much any of the Summon spells) don't explicitly state "you can use these to activate traps", but they're often used for just those purposes. In most cases, the rules are looked at as "if it doesn't say you can't do it, then you can do it". The Astral Arms feature doesn't state "you can't use these to grapple", which it likely would if the designers didn't want you to do it, as they show in the mentioned Thri-Kreen Secondary Arms feature, when they say they can't be used to hold a shield or use any weapons that aren't Light. Obviously, there's got to be some give and take with the DM as well, since multiple hands, or useless hands attached to your armor, would probably piss them off. I think any reasonable DM would certainly view it your way though, that Astral Arms are, well, arms. And probably have hands. And that those hands should be able to do normal hand stuff.
In terms of falling off a bridge rules, I think RAW you fall at the same speed since there's no rule contradicting the falling rules speed specifically. If you were grapple pushing them off the ledge in theory you are one square behind them and follow them off the bridge, putting you one square above them as you both fall. This part is subject to grapple interpretation as it depends how position is ruled when you drag a grappled target. If all that is the case the enemy falls and takes damage then you fall on them and both if you take half that damage. I'm not sure RAW whether the tashas split fall damage or the Monk slow fall applies first, but either you reduce the damage then split it or you split it then reduce your portion. Logically speaking the Monk should fall at a slower rate, breaking the grapple but having the same falling damage result.
Hear me out. Goliath for increased carrying capacity. Strength build so focus on Str- Wis, lower Con, low dex, dump rest. (Point buy). Bear barbarian for damage resistances, advantage on Athletics, Rage bonus on STR strikes. Long death Monk for temp HP per kill (lower because of multiclass and possibly not as high Wis mod but count as double due to damage resistance). I know there might be something more optimal but I like this and I think it works like I want it to. Also, high speed and advantage on initiative and dex saves, which kind of makes up for the sub par dex, and paired with evasion, you're pretty good. Plus you can spend 1 ki to stay conscious on death monk's 11th level (I'd go for 9 barb, 11 monk). Maybe you could squeeze a skill expert feat in there for expertise, if you're satisfied with your stats. Otherwise you can go straight strength based monk and get expertise through skill expert. Strength based might mean lower AC but hey. Who wants to live up to level 20, amiright.
3:56 - The RAW specifically says the grapple is an attack. It's referenced as a special melee attack. ('Special' isn't an official term in 5e, so we can assume it's just saying it's a different form of attacking). And the very next sentence says "If you are able to make multiple attacks, THIS ATTACK replaces one of them. So a grapple has to be ruled as an attack. And it is certainly not considered an armed attack with a melee weapon because you can't do a grapple if you are holding a weapon. I can respect that that this is a 'GM has to rule' scenario, but RAW it seems like the most obvious ruling is that monks can replace STR with DEX when grappling. ____________________________________________- And then there's the question of holding the grapple. (This is what lead me to this video). The RAW says the grappled person can use DEX or STR to try to escape against the grappler's STR. Why wouldn't DEX vs DEX be an option (especially if the grappler is a monk)? Again, GM will have to rule, but it seems really silly that they can use DEX to escape but I can't use DEX to hold. A grapple isn't the same as vines holding someone in place. It's a person who's very capable of adjusting to the movements of the person they are grappling.
i think this build might work better on a monkbarian. You can take the unarmored defense of the barbarian instead of the monks, and you can use strength for your unarmed attacks too, making it less reliant on good wisdom score and making you tougher. You could be a bear totem barbarian for the damge reduction to last longer, but since this is more about move grappled enemies, you might want to go for elk insteadd, bringing your final speed to a whoppong 70 feet( or 80 feet if you are a centaur!)
I built a grapple drag build, that I think works better. 3 levels rune knight, 3 levels scout rogue, 3 levels daolock. You'll certainly want fighter until at least 5 at some point. I chose Duergar for enlarge / reduce. Also, at fighter 4 I'd grab Dwarven Fortitude which works well with gift of the ever living ones (which I'd also grab). So round 1: Action, cast spike growth. Action surge, grapple. use your move to drag 15', bonus action dash 15', and when the grappled creatures turn ends you reaction drag another 15'. So that's 45' of drag on round one. Remaining rounds you can use your move to drag, action dash, bonus action dash, and reaction move for a total of 60' per round. Also unarmed, like your monk, so has 2 free hands. Unarmed fighting style give another d4 damage per round as well.
Just watching the "Full Plate Monk" now... Given "Shield Expert" feels like we still have further ways we could improve this build. Although "Monk Movement" is a big part of the "Dragger" idea, you could always just Drop the Shield once you've got someone.
I made a similar build to this, with the exception that, provided I get dm buy in, I'll be going moon druid to grapple as a direwolf and dragging along spike growth. Can also continue as druid for better wildshapes and spells.
Forced movement ends grapples (I'm fairly certain at least) so if you can sacrifice an ASI, Crusher can push those pesky enemies that refuse to let go from a drop.
Isn't dragging based on you strength score? Carrying Capacity. Your carrying capacity is your Strength score multiplied by 15. This is the weight (in pounds) that you can carry, which is high enough that most characters don't usually have to worry about it. Push, Drag, or Lift. You can push, drag, or lift a weight in pounds up to twice your carrying capacity (or 30 times your Strength score). While pushing or dragging weight in excess of your carrying capacity, your speed drops to 5 feet. so with a strength of 8, your carrying capacity is 120lbs. if the creature weighs more than that then your speed is reduced to 5 feet.
In chapter 9 of PHB: Moving a Grappled Creature. When you move, you can drag or carry the grappled creature with you, but your speed is halved, unless the creature is two or more sizes smaller than you. I think this is what most people assume for dragging a grappled creature. Definitely some ambiguity in the rules though.
RAW you are technically correct -the best kind of correct. This is a very overlooked rule, but moving a grappled creature is supposed to be capped at your drag capacity. *Moving a Grappled Creature* : When you move, you can *drag or carry* the Grappled creature with you, but your speed is halved, unless the creature is two or more sizes smaller than you. Given that the game designated values for those terms, well you shouldn’t be able to move something that is beyond your capacity to move. This also gives value to things like Powerful Build, Aspect of the Bear, Enhance Ability, Giant’s Might, Enlarge/Reduce, etc.
JC has tweeted that the intent was for the specific grappling rule to override the more general drag/carry/lift capacity. His justification was mostly that it simplifies combat by not having to work out weights for every creature in the game. So if you want to implement a weight based limit for more detail, that can be reasonable, but I would not just implement the 30 x strength limit for dragging. Remember the standard is that any medium creature can grapple and drag any large creature. But if you limit it to 30 x strength, you can't move a warhorse even if you have 29 strength from a belt of storm giant strength. Even with a powerful build type feature and high strength, many large creatures would still be too heavy to drag. 5e has a simple linear relationship between strength and weight capacity, but this leaves high strength characters much more limited than they probably should be. So if you want a limit because you don't want the 8 strength wizard that got a lucky roll (or used portent) to drag on ogre around, just keep in mind that actual martials don't need to be more limited than they already are when working out what that limit should be. Here is a quick and dirty way that doesn't require calculating weights. "You can drag a grappled creature if it is your size or smaller. Your speed is halved unless the creature is two or more size categories smaller than you. If your strength is at least 16, you can drag creatures up to one size category larger at half speed." Powerful build type features could remove the strength limit, and if let you move creatures of one size category smaller at full speed if you have it and high strength.
Keep in mind that when applying the Fire Rune damage, that their is also a CC rider on the rune text as well; "...it must succeed on a Strength saving throw or be restrained for 1 minute. While restrained by the shackles, the target takes 2d6 fire damage at the start of each of its turns. The target can repeat the saving throw at the end of each of its turns, banishing the shackles on a success..." Restrained: Creatures speed is zero (free grapple). "Attack rolls against the creature have advantage, and the creature's attack rolls have disadvantage." (free prone). The creature has disadvantage on Dexterity saving throws (debuff favoring group synergy).
I play a Luchador in Pathfinder and I always wondered what it would be like to make him in D&D 5e. Hopefully we can get some more Lucha/Wrestlers in the game. Just don't get too lost in the white void simulation of character building. Do not forget in the real game you have a party to work with and they can cast stuff on you.
My homebrew grappler monk subclass lets me use Dex in grapple and shove checks, and treats grapple and shove as unarmed strikes - at level 3. Astral Self is cool, too. Thanks for doing this build, Monk's action economy and theme is perfect for a grappling specialist, but the RAW doesn't make it as easy bass it should be. Also, Skill Expert, FTW.
@@andrewnorth1471 a feat is a neat idea, that could open up a few other classes to use grappling mechanics. I did a homebrew whipmaster feat that turns Dex-based characters into good grapplers - and lets them stay 10 ft away from the grappled target.
People sleep on an Armorer Artificer for grappling. Bugbear Armorer Artificer with Tavern Brawler and Grappler. All Int and Con, defensive field, I mean what else do you need? I mean you can get warcaster and then cast spells while in there too.
Interesting concept; any thoughts on a Fairy, 8 Swarmkeeper Ranger, 6 Rune Knight Fighter, and 6 Way of the Astral Self Monk build. Alternatively, a Dhampir, 8 Hunter Ranger, 6 Rune Knight Fighter, and 6 Way of the Kensei Monk build. Great video as always. Fairy = Free Enlarge/Reduce, Squat Nimbleness Feat access, and Flight. Swarmkeeper = Free Damage, Utility Movement (self/your opponent), Free Fighting Style, Favored Foe, and Expertise. Way of the Astral Monk = Movement, Flurry of Blows, Magical Unarmed Attacks, and Extra Arms (Arms of the Astral Self). Dhampir = 40 ft. Movement (Small size and the Squat Nimbleness Feat), Spider Climb, and Vampiric Bite. Hunter Ranger = Movement, Free Fighting Style, Expertise, and Extra damage to Vampiric Bite (Hunter's Prey - Colossus Slayer/Favored Foe). Way of the Kensei Monk = Movement, Kensei Weapons (for Vampiric Bite), Deft Strike (can be used on Vampiric Bite), Magical Unarmed Attacks, and Flurry of Blows. 1 Ranger, 6 Rune Knight, 6 Monk, 7 Ranger
I'm considering straight Astral Self Monk with the Plasmoid that's coming out in a few days. In the UA version, at least, plasmoids got advantage on grappling and escaping grapples, so I believe that will get around the need to multi class into Rune Knight Fighter (which you said was to get advantage on strength checks for grappling).
I was under the impression that dragging/carrying an opponent still fell under the encumbrance rules. Wouldn’t a Strength score of 8 allow a character to only drag 120 pounds, or up to 240 pounds with a speed lowered to 5? Using your Wisdom modifier instead of Strength modifier for Strength checks shouldn’t change that.
The intent is that the push/drag/lift rules don't matter for moving a grappled opponent, so you'd only be encumbered if you were already encumbered by your own gear. That said, many DMs might still apply them if you try to use a flying speed to lift a grappled opponent into the air, or do high jumps.
Encumbrance rules are optional, don't know many who play with them. Even if you were, I think it would be odd to override the specific grappling rules which are size based with the general (and optional) encumbrance rules which are weight based. They're pretty clearly for different scenarios, one in combat and one out of combat.
@@trombonegamer14 Encumbrance is a variant, but push/drag/lift limits are actually separate and are not listed as a variant or optional rule. That said, you are correct that the intent is that moving a grappling opponent is not supposed to invoke push/drag/lift rules.
My mistake for writing encumbrance instead of drag/carry rules. Either way, this clarification makes some sense. I suppose that’s why monster stat blocks don’t list weights. That said, there might be situations where a STR-8 monk dragging two 2000 lb creatures might hurt the game immersion.
@Hagen024 RAW you are technically correct -the best kind of correct. This is a very overlooked rule, but moving a grappled creature is supposed to be capped at your drag capacity. *Moving a Grappled Creature* : When you move, you can *drag or carry* the Grappled creature with you, but your speed is halved, unless the creature is two or more sizes smaller than you. Given that the game designated rules for the values of drag and carry, well you shouldn’t be able to move something that is beyond your capacity to move. This also gives value to things like Powerful Build, Aspect of the Bear, Enhance Ability, Giant’s Might, Enlarge/Reduce, etc.
Fire Rune specifically states that Fire Rune active effect activates on attacks using a weapon and not weapon attacks, therefore unfortunatelly it wouldnt activate from unarmed strikes since they count as weapon attacks and not weapons. RAW Fire Rune wouldnt activate from unarmed strikes. My DM would allow it but that would depend on DM. Correct me if Im wrong ofc.
Grapples count as a type of unarmed attack so you can grapple with astral arms but I suggest that you grapple 3 arms so that you can use Deflect missile not only that you can use fury of blows to grapple so that's 1 ki point for 3 grapple chances Dhampir is super deadly 35 ft base movement Spider climb= hands free climbing up the walls to the roof and if they escape from your grasp while on the ceiling its fall damage and letting go of your victims is a free action so fall damage. Vampiric bite the real reason to pick Dhampir on demand healing and buff to the next attack roll or ability check so long as the victim isn't a construct or undead. Attacking without the need for hands even while spider climbing. You do need dedicated weapon and Ki-Fueled Attack but that's not much of a hinderance so at level five if all 3 of your attacks hit the average damage is 27.5 Here's the math 3d6+ (con mod x 3)+ (proficiency x3) Average 1d6 because the teeth are now monk weapons which is 3 + a 3 to con + the proficiency being 3 9 times 3 successful attacks which is 27 And something dumb but extra fun at level 9 and there's water nearby you can take your victims for a swim and by that I mean drown them and you don't need to worry because your a Dhampir and they have deathless nature which mean you DON'T need to breathe.
Would blind fighting style be an ok alternative? It misses out on the occasional amazing 1d4 damage but it means it's easier to grapple anything invisible?
I just wanna say, if you're fighting something with force resistance, you're quite screwed. The arms of the astral self are the ones that deal force damage and can use wisdom. Your regular ones don't do either. So, if you gotta slap with your regular hands, you're attacking with dexterity, which is lower.
I don't see any mentions of this in the comments but Fire Rune is mostly useless to this character. The rune states it can only be used "when you hit a creature with an attack using a weapon" which I think disqualifies unarmed strikes. I would probably take Stone Rune instead for a possible incapacitation effect.
I don’t really understand the value of kenku over vuman or CL for lucky, you only get more kenku advantage than luck points late game and by that point you would already have rune knight anyway. Also luck points work better with grapples than kenku advantage due to when you need to declare that you are going to use it.
With a Kenku you also get proficiencies, mimicry, and the ability to create Expert Duplicates. With so many "optimized" builds going Vuman, it's definitely not a bad thing to deviate from that when you can. Vuman is obviously always a good option. Basically in all scenarios.
A grappling monk is a fighter with 1 level of barbarian. Unarmed Fighting style, battle master, grappling strike, disarming attack. Unarmored from the barbarian. After level 4, pick whatever levels you want and enjoy crushing the life out of your foes!
Dm's please allow the astral arms to grapple!😁 I think the dpr here will be higher in game play then on paper. Its quite likely there will be a spirit guardians, spike growth, moonbeam or wall of fire to drag creatures into. If you are coordinating with party members the dpr on this build can be really good.
You can still choose to use a Monk Weapon (although it would limit the number of Grappled Targets) without any loss of damage to use "Savage Attack", Martial Arts lets you use your "Martial Arts" die as the Damage die for Unarmed Strikes or MONK weapons. This would also up all of your damage Numbers, as you can (basically) always get some sort of Magical Weapon.
I haven’t finished the video yet for the. full context, but Astral’s wisdom based attacking is limited to unarmed strikes, so accuracy/dmg would be reduced until you start increasing dex.
@@elliotbryant3459 There were so many "Bonus Damage Dice" bouncing around... but if the ones he was talking about when he mentioned Savage Attack is the (Level 11) Astral Self one, then you're right.
I think a reborn owlin would be the best race choice now, you get that Uber powerful fly speed plus among other thing the knowledge of past life that let's you add a d6 to skill checks prof per long rest times. Not quite as strong as the kenkus advantage but I think the over all gains more than make up for it.
hey Chirs, I'll be playing some grapplers soon, so it was a nice coincidence having those vids now! I'll be doing it with a homebrew class, The Pugilist (from Sterling Vermin), and this got me thinking,: Did you ever analysed a HB class? since this class has a lot of similarities with monks, but by reading it I think they perform better. How do you analise if a content is good or not? My guess is you didn't since you'll not be using it, as most likely it won't be allowed in optimized tables, also usually having to pay just to check stuff is a big turn down on looking for any good homebrew content (you're not sure if it's actually good before paying it, and can't even be sure if you'll use it). still, doesn't hurt to ask. Love your Channel, been learning a lot with you, d4 and others since last year
I think the Strength vs Wisdom check issue is actually a non-issue. Reading the Variant entry re: skills with other abilities, I think the astral arms entry is a specific invocation of this rule variant since it’s an Athletics check. despite it being cited as a strength check, because you’re using Athletics, since the wisdom modifier is used they become wisdom checks, so shifting or starsdruid dragon form apply normally. This is my interpretation.
Feels like you forgot about Tortles. They make fantastic STR based monks and you don't have bump dex at all. This would allow you to build a better subclass.
This really makes me want to create the way of the constrictor sub class for monks. Having a monks strangler grappler just feels right thematically.
The BJJ Monk!
I would have them be able to unhinged and hyper extend their limbs to get out of grapples and reverse into pinning a creature, as well as grapple even larger creatures.
While a creature or object is grappled at the start of their turn, the monk can choose to inflict 2 rolls of their martial arts dice to them as bludgeoning damage.
A lot of things to figure out, but I really like the flavor.
Also if someone misses them with a melee attack they can use a reaction pull them into a grapple with advantage.
If you were interested in 3rd party materials I know that the “Way of the Noble Serpent” exists in the Compendium of Forgotten Secrets. I played that subclass during a one-shot and really enjoyed it. It’s a snake-themed grappler monk.
Awesome! I knew there had to be a lot of people who’d want this kind of subclass!
Maybe use a ki point for this: have them be able to use the grappler feat bullet point for pinning. But instead make it that while the monk is restrained, the target is incapacitated instead. That way they are grappled and completely locked down in return for the monk's vulnerability to being attacked. That way you actually get something for it.
Maybe even they remain incapacitated after release for a number of rounds equal to how many rounds you held on to them.
Everyone keep an eye out for the giff in Spelljammer! Giff will apparently get advantage on Strength checks (which should apply to this), so maybe we’ll have another option, with some free Gunk synergy on the side. The Plasmoid may also be quite good.
Also, a level of ranger has some good synergy here.
The ooze creature also has advantage on initiating and escaping grapples
@@Adurnis A Warlock / Ranger would be adding some Reallllly silly damage numbers, considering you're pulling 4 (Attack *2, Flurry *2) attacks most rounds, 6 with Surge.
@@Siennarchist If true, plasmoid could also be good! Doesn’t make a huge amount of sense to me that it would apply to the arms but I’ll take it.
@@lokithecat7225 What does warlock add?
It really seems like every fighting style should get an upgrade every time the fighter gets their upgraded extra attack.
Maybe the grappling fighting style can be used to damage the creatures you're grappling every attack you make with the attack option. So like an 11th level fighter could Attack( grab, shove, attack) and deal +2d4 damage.
Maybe protection could let you use a bonus action with a shield to give you half cover at 5 which ends the start of your next turn or if you use a reaction. At 11 make it 3/4 and 20 full?
@@SilvrSavior That is how the UA version of Unarmed Fighting Style worked, applying the bonus 1d4 bludgeoning damage when you grappled and with each weapon attack. Which, admittedly, made it way too powerful compared to the other fighting styles. I'd say just giving back the bonus damage when initiating a grapple alongside the current bonus damage each turn to grappled targets would be the better middle ground, given my personal experience on how seldom creatures remain grappled for multiple turns. They either die or get movement effected out the grapple before the grappler's next turn so often (which, in turn, makes it harder to even remember the start of turn damage, since the unarmed fighter sees it come up only occasionally).
Honestly, instead of making Fighting Styles scale/upgrade with Extra Attack (especially just for the Fighter, since it's not the only class that gets them), the better homebrew would probably be to just give the Fighter an additional base class fighting style. I'd say probably just at level 5 alongside Extra attack number one. All the martial classes should have something or another to pair with getting Extra Attack at level 5 to flavor themselves, and that's basically just the Fighter that doesn't get that. With how few Fighting Styles there were in the PHB, it was understandable why that bone wasn't thrown to them originally, but makes a lot of sense now.
My favorite race for grapple builds is SIMIC HYBRID. They get grappling appendages and nothing is more satisfying that tying up SIX dudes in one fight. (Yea I know Astral Arms technically don't grapple but I've never had a DM say no, even in AL).
Only other difference in my own grapple builds is I like to go Echo Knight for fighter. When you're using your fists, the Echo just makes an awesome JoJo reference. This can also be a good get-out-of-jail-free card if your dogpile gets a bit too dangerous.
Oh, and you can't forget grabbing a handful of people and then jumping off a cliff, just to Echo swap to safely. I call this the unvaxxed kid.
Another great thing with giants might and way of astral activation. By becoming larger the area you affect with the activation goes up meaning you can actually get a decent number of people to be hit by the astral arm activation.
This monk could be a specialist of the dragon pinion power bomb. Use a reaction to invoke slow fall to reduce your own fall damage. (Narratively rolling so that The dragon lands underneath while you elbow drop of course)
Judging by the recent build videos, I think Treantmonk is starting to secretly, and despite his better judgement, like monk.
I wanted to shout out the Charger feat for grapplers. I'm playing currently playing a Rune Knight 11/Genie Lock 3 (Dao) and I'm able to drag people and reliably get an attack in to make the most out of the "First attack to hit on your turn" features from Rune Knight/Genie.
i think a half elf would work. You could get two 16 and a 17 in your stat and instead of increasing wisdom at level 4 you take skill expert. that way you get expertise in athletics which while not as good as advantage is pretty good until you get giant's might
Half drow to get the darkness spell to use with astral sight
The first 5e character I was able to play (forever DM) was a monk/barbarian grappler, and it was a lot of fun. Looking forward to see what you come up with.
One of the greatest contributions a monk has ever given in one of my games was when we were fighting a vampire like monster, I had paralyzed it but we had no way to permanently kill it and had no idea where his coffin was.
So we had the monk use his semi infinite movement to grapple the fucker and bring him two floors up to the surface in the sun before the paralysis could end, was incredible.
Instead of Kenku I think grabbing Fey Touched for a boost to wisdom and access to the Hex spell is a stronger option. This lets us give the enemy disadvantage on the opposed check while letting us smack them for more damage at the same time. It is also able to stack with giving ourselves advantage with Rune Knight later on.
That or early skill expert(advantage gets way less important as you level up you'll have a +9 difference in modifiers on a 24 strength creature by level 13) and if you did go feytouched a 1 lvl cleric dip or a druid dip instead of rune Knight(for enlarge when you need it) would be my take, so you get more than one hex and some other useful utility (like shillelagh at early levels).
A neat trick is to grapple two opponents and repeatedly run up a wall before falling back to ground level, they take the fall damage, you don't thanks to slow fall. You also get to attack them with advantage since they're prone.
Some interesting choices but there's a glaring problem: grappling an enemy puts a big target on your head for attacks from them. And there's nothing which gives this character the ability to tank hits. This is why barbarians work so well, they can start a grapple and survive being that target. Best approach in my opinion is to accept lower Dex or wisdom and invest in barbarian.
Can always go with a strength and con based ranger
Put them Prone, they have disadvantage to attack, which also sets you up to beat on them while they are down.
Mid level you could "Grapple", "Push", Action Surge, (With Advantage) Attack, Attack, Flurry, Flurry. Which is kind of Horrifying...
Then your opponent either Attack you with Disadvantage, or Breaks out of the Grapple (which still leaves him Prone, as his move = 0)
@@lokithecat7225 This is true, although it still leaves you in the frontline and requires you succeed two consecutive grapple/shoves so there's risk to it. Better to go with patient defence, but even then monk AC isn't scaling that quickly and their hit points still aren't fantastic. Also still in the frontline so other enemies can cause problems. Idk, grapple and tanking work, but grapple and damage dealing aren't a fantastic combination, felt like a weird choice to try to maintain baseline damage.
@@dungeondr You can also drag the dude off the "Front Lines" in a party setting... Like the Tank goes "Up Front" with you, you "Yoink" someone and drag him back 20" and the rest of the Party Ganks him...
Probably situational, but compared to high level "Crowd Control" it's hard to deal with, especially as your "Legendary Resists" can't shrug off a Grapple / Restrain.
Probably not optimal "DPS" build, but for a Crowd Control specialist, it's probably a Solid Choice.
@@bozieu Nope, the Arms can't Grapple. They only have the extra 5" Reach when you make an Unarmed Strike with them.
They "Help you" with the stat swap, but they can't Grab things for you.
25:57 The wording for Savage Attacker is that is must be a melee weapon attack. An unarmed strike is not an attack with a melee weapon, but I do believe that they are melee weapon attacks. I remember seeing a discussion about this with regards to an unarmed Paladin, and why fists don't count for smites (requiring attacks with a melee weapon) but do count for other things
he talked about it himself in one of his recent videos
The issue actual comes with the line, "you can reroll the weapon's damage die" (PHB, pg. 169) as unarmed strike is a melee weapon attack made without a weapon, "Instead of using a weapon to make a melee weapon attack, you can use an unarmed strike" (PHB, pg. 195
One could argue for the Monk and Savage attacker that since an unarmed strike is taking the place of a weapon it would be applicable for Savage Attacker. The same logic could be applied to the Paladin's Divine Smite as it states "when you hit a creature with a melee weapon attack, you can expend one spell slot to deal radiant damage to the target, in addition to the weapon's damage" (PHB, pg. 85)
One setting specific race that could also be strong for this character is Simic Hybrid from Ravnica.
With Grappling Appendages, you have even more arms to grapple with. Also, there's the Manta Glide tech that doubles your movement since you can jump 1 feet into the air and glide 2 feet forwards.
That combined basically means you have huge mobility and can carry up to 6 huge sized creatures at the same time.
Something to note is that Fire Rune requires you to make an "attack with a weapon" so you can't use it with Unarmed Strikes. Not a problem to pull out the quarterstaff and then drop it if you have a free hand, but it can cause a conflict if you already have two creatures grappled.
Crawford quoted that unarmed attacks are weapon attacks
@@andrewnorth1471 They are melee weapon attacks, but they are not attacks with a weapon. This is why Crawford says you can't smite with Unarmed Strikes, because while they are weapon attacks, smite requires an attack with a weapon. I know it sounds silly, and something as a DM I'd probably have no problem changing, since it almost exclusively hurts monks and no one else, but RAW it does not work.
The DM on the Rolling with Difficulty podcast had a fun interpretation of the rules here. He allowed the astral self monk to use wisdom for all the barbarian class features, including the multiclassing requirements. It's definitely not RAW but with how relatively weak monks are it's probably not a bad homebrew rule to use, and it's definitely thematic.
The monk/barbarian player ended up going for a tank playstyle with the ancestral guardian, but there's probably a fun grappling giant barbarian/astral self monk build in there, if you buy your DM a pizza :3
I made a custom subclass that focuses on Judo-style grappling where you grab and throw your opponents around the battlefield. Adding throwing to grappling makes grappling so much more useful. Instead of being tied up with one opponent, which comes in handy only during boss battles where there is one big bad with no minions, grappling gets turned into a form of battlefield control where you're throwing enemies into other enemies and creating piles of prone enemies around the battlefield.
I have always felt that although a powerful build race like an orc or Goliath isn’t essential, it does allow for counting one size larger to drag your opponents when grappled.
My personal favourite is an orc rune knight for second wind after relentless endurance and multi attack with giants might grappling combined with skill expert for expertise in athletics
I think there's an argument to take 1st level in fighter. Proficiency in CON saving throws is going to help you more than proficiency in DEX saving throws until you get diamond soul. And you do end up with 1 more point of HP.
Granted, I would mostly do this if joining a campaign at level 6+. This decision will make you drop notably below the baseline at level 1 (be slightly better 2-4 thanks to the fighting style) and then once again drop below baseline at level 5. And you also won't be able to grapple until character level 4 instead of character level 3.
This is probably the ultimate monk grappler in a solo scenario, but in a group advantage is often simple to get. Chris gives so many options, and reiterates his thinking so clearly! Love the astral self monk.
Quick note, you can grapple with both hands and still make unarmed strikes (headbutts, kicks etc.)
When I saw your precursor video, I fiddled with it and came up with Tabaxi Rune Knight and Psi-Knife. The rogue Steady Aim optional rule to move 0 and get advantage works with the Tabaxi need to stop. You have expertise for athletics, psi-bolstered knack to add to your grapple check, advantage on the grapple check and large size through Giant's Might, and Cunning Action to get a Dash. All of this comes online at level 6.
Hello again! Just finished this video! On to the Hexadin we go!
My monk's career high was when he stunned an aboleth out of the sky and rode it Strangelove style crashing to the sea. The ruling we arrived at was the aboleth takes its own fall damage, automatically fails the save against being landed on by my monk, taking half of my fall damage, and then Slow Fall reduced the damage I took.
Like you said, this is best case scenario, and the aboleth effectively took 30d6 falling damage while my monk took none. We went with the rule of cool and didn't worry about it being OP or exploited, partly because it was only one of many strong creatures in that days-long battle, and partly because I had no intention of trying to replicate it
Monk/Barbarian is pretty fun, but you are right that it's MAD.
If you are rolling for stats, that's when you wanna try and go for it.
I've done it, and Mercy monk/Beast Barbarian has lead to a crazy strong and deep character to play with. A classic fight for control with the beast within.
now hear me out, squeeze in fey touched (wisdom) for a BA teleport, grapple and run setup. and also get access to hex, which can nuke the targets STR or DEX ability checks, as well as add damage since it's whenever you hit with an attack.
Thanks Chris I have made a grappler for the campaign I’m in. Look forward to the next video.
If you have a DM that enforces carrying rules for grappling, races with powerful build is a must
I'm excited to see how the new hadozzee race works when spelljammer comes out. WOTC were talking about how they can use their feet as well as they can their hands, so I'm wondering if you could make a build where you grapple with your feet and climb with your hands and then drop creatures for fall damage + prone condition then fail on them with your hands
Apparently Giff will just get advantage on Strength checks, so they could be a contender as well.
Climbing doesn't require Hands Free...
But a creature with Climb Speed would still have an easier time in general (until you can Monk up Vertical Surfaces).
The description of Slow Fall doesn't actually say you fall slower. It just says you reduce the damage, like you're martial arts make you good at tumbling or distributing the impact.
I’ve always wondered about exactly how slow fall works: when I read the Feather Fall spell, it specifies even the rate at which the target’s fall speed is reduced. But when they wrote Slow Fall, they could’ve written it similarly to Feather Fall, but they didn’t. It doesn’t mean even mention the monk’s fall speed, but just says that the monk doesn’t take fall damage from (X) height. So I can’t tell if it was an oversight or not, so I’ve been ruling it as a controlled fall, like parkour, or in some cases, just a cool looking 3-point landing.
Excellent video. Pretty sure this is your definition of an excellent tank. Like you have all saving throws that you specifically want, you have the ability to move bad guys away from the squishy's in 1 turn. All you need is more hit points.
I love it! One day the possibilities will be exhausted and then we can rest assured Treantmonk had the last word! This is effective and absolutely hilarious. I WILL play this build next time I don’t have to DM. Thank you Treantmonk!
I created a backup character just like this. It's very All-Might in nature. Glad the concept have you a reason to try the subclass considering your review of it. Way more interesting to grapple than do the usual flurry and stuns.
For my monk, I started with fighter for unarmed fighting style (1d8 per punch), and got a battle master maneuver and picked the grappling strike which gives a bonus action grapple using the maneuver dice to add to the athletics check, which picked as a proficiency.
I think Plasmoid makes an interesting choice here. It may only be for initiating the grapple, but for early levels that should still help
This Video really shows me that there should be a sage advice, to say that monks can use features that require attacks using a weapon, with their unarmed strikes.
Slow fall doesnt actually slow your fall, it just make you take less damage, so its more of a special landing than an actual slow fall like feather fall spell.
In the case of grappling, you could "slow" your fall by using your grappled creature as a landing cushion
It should be noted, if allowed, Plane Shift: Amonkhet has the Naga race, probably the spiciest thing in all the PS books-
In addition to being to immune to poison, It has an unarmed body attack:
If you hit with your constrict attack, you deal bludgeoning damage equal to 1d6 + your Strength modifier, and the target is grappled (escape DC 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Strength modifier). Until this grapple ends, the target is restrained, and you can't constrict another target.
Monk 1, can make the constrict attack using dex.
Also could hold 3 dudes in Cloudkill, one being restrained (hand holds would require str or something though)
Cool build. I really thought it'd be a strength based Tortle Monk/Barb multiclass so you don't have to have dex over 13 but this is cool too.
Bless you kind sir for all your monk fan service. You've helped make my favored class much more playable and fun. (credit goes to Dm as well for allowing your fix). Have you considered the somewhat limited grapple rules and how they may be given flavor without becoming overly complex? The rules neglect things like chokes, joint locks and using grappling leverage al la MMA to break bones, disable? What do you think? Too complex/OP?
Wouldn't Variant human skill expert be better than Kenku?
Expertise in athletics is only really worse than advantage at levels 3-4 when you don't have extra attack yet anyway. And once you get Rune Knight at level 8 you're golden as your racial benefit is synergizing with your class features rather than becoming kinda redundant.
I was thinking that too, but the key here is being able to move and drag grappled targets around, not just hold them still. The idea of moving two squares, initiating a grapple, and pulling a target back four squares while giving your allies better positioning can be better than just making yourself and an opponent "stuck"
@@Spectrulus I'm missing how Kenku has more movement speed than a V-human?
I'm actuality surprised he didn't mention Dhampir. Your bite is a monk weapon and you can use it to get advantage on your str checks easily, not to mention spider climb is a great way to drag enemies up walls
Hadozee grappler monk... With jump-glide shenanigans, unarmored movement, and bonus action dash, even though your movement is HALVED you can drag two enemies 160ft at level 5. Bring on that spike growth ;)
I’m playing a shadow monk multiclassed into rogue for expertise and cunning action. Not optimized to any crazy degree, but it creates an incredibly versatile action economy, and expertise in athletics to isolate, lockdown, and shut an enemy out of combat is a blast
In regards to Slow Fall, nothing in the mechanical description says that you literally fall slower, like Feather Fall does. So I would assume that the grappled enemy takes full damage.
So I did a grappler build a few weeks ago. I went barbarian/rune knight strength constitution as the focus. I did a tortle an bugbear. Tortle have claws and the bugdear reach. The tortle with it's AC and claws was just a dominate force. I picked the grappler feat and unarmed combat. Even naked this caricature is armed and dangerous. lol
The fact so many class features and feats just don't work with unarmed strikes is vexing in the extreme.
26:50 You could also use Skill expert and Resilient feats both for wisdom to get 20 Wis and Wis saving throw prof. Then boost Dex with different ASI. That is if not going to Monk 14.
a grapple build i've had in mind is rune knight 5/rogue 2(for cunning action and experties)/ fighter x. This way you get superb grappling and the extra mobility from the rogue, and you are basically a straight fighter and we know that those aren't bad
This is very interesting! I would have done this completely different. Tortle takes the weight off your dex and wisdom, and allows you to build on strength, and then multiclass into barbarian.
This also allows you to grapple from level 1.
I would have gone monk 5 (since we no longer need astral self, probably mercy, but open hand also works for knocking prone with flurry of blows), barbarian 1, rune knight 3.
I have a build in mind for a few day now, trying to make the shield master useful as a tank character.
The ideia is using loxodon rune knight, getting shield master at level 4 and skill expert at level 6 for expertise in atletics.
So i can atk grapple, bonus action shove to prone, and 1 normal atk per turn, using the rune knight features as needed.
This way i can get a good AC, pin 1 creature per turn, usually the nastiest one, and still control the battle with rune features.
(also thinking in flavor changing the elephant for a insectoid, switching the trunk for a pair of arms or a scorpion tail)
If I were the DM and a monk had someone grappled and jumped off a cliff, I would let them use Slow Fall to halve their damage while the enemy takes full damage and flavor it as the monk landing on top of the enemy and using them as a cushion.
I have a personal ruling for monks that want to grapple. They make a Dexterity (Athletics) check instead of a Strength (Athletics) check like you usually would.
When you mentioned killing the familiar with the Cloud Rune I remembered that I did exactly the same thing with my Rune Knight at one point lol
I know I'm late to the comments (and this could have already been stated), but I think that a Variant Human Armorer could be arguably a better grappler
Athletics: Skill Expert + Enlarge + armor strength bonus (just rediculous)
Movement: Long strider + Mobile + Haste!
Armor class: no comparison (23 easy on armorer)
DPR: likely where fighter/monk wins
The minor and temporary bump to DPR with unarmed fighting is possibly offset by Blind fighting style since this limits conditions that may give you disadvantage.
I would like to point out, that your baseline is actually what many tables consider to be fairly good. So reaching baseline at a casual table is good for many players
It's baseline because it takes little effort. Your not a good damage dealer if you do less damage then a warlock casting eldritch blast with hex.
If the Giff race gets published unedited in the upcoming Spelljammer book there will exist a race that has advantage on strength checks that should work well with this build
Prediction now before watching: astral self monk, perhaps CL to get Fey touched for the Hex spell so you can have a capped WIS at level 4 and with Hex they have disadvantage on escaping your grapples if you guess right, plus basically doubling your damage output
If they have a +5 to STR and +3 to DEX and you guess right with Hex, they can still use the +3 Acrobatics without disadvantage. It's borderline metagaming, but a PC would 100% do that if the roles were switched.
Yeah. That is a bit of a problem.
But especially at low-mid levels, unless.you are like a boss most monsters don't have both a good STR and DEX. And I would prefer using my +7 or +8 against a +3 than a +5
dnd beyond just gave a preview of the giff stats today in an article. With them having advantage on strength checks and strength saving throws might be a good choice for this when it's released in a few weeks depending on if its always on or limited use. Not to mention those insane firearm abilities making them perfect for Gunks.
But isn't the giff a setting specific race: Spelljammer? He stated he wanted to stay a way from them.
@@SANSd20 Granted. But there are many tables where it would be setting agnostic. Just another option you could go with at some point.
@@SANSd20 Actually, now that I think about it they probably are setting agnostic. The spelljammer academy prequel adventure WoTC put out is set in the current dnd world and spelljammers let you go anywhere. Also Giff were first introduced in 5e in Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes which is also setting agnostic. Unless Spelljammer is stated as being in an alternate universe then I see no reason they should not be available to use.
I think you *should* be able to use your Astral Arms to Grapple additional targets, or to use a two-handed weapon while grappling. The Grapple Rules simply state that you need at least one free hand to grapple. The Arms of the Astral Self allow you to determine the appearance of your Astral Arms, which you could easily determine as having hands. So, while your Arms are out, you, by RAW, have two additional free hands. Or more, if you want to be really cheeky and make em have extras.
In short, I believe the rules support using Astral Arms as additional hands for grappling, and I don't see anything that would make a reasonable DM rule otherwise.
Ya they basically are saying that because the rules don't specifically say you can, you can't. Which is lame logic, I say you should be able to use the arms to pick up whatever you want. It's not much if a power increase and is cooler.
RAW the arms can have all the hands you want since you choose the appearance, but the ability to grab something with them or otherwise use them as free hands is not one of the listed benefits of using the Arms of the Astral Self feature. It'd be like saying that since nothing stops you from making the arms look like cannons, the feature actually gives you shoulder mounted cannons if you want, capable of firing projectiles.
I'd probably allow the arms to at least grapple, but that is more because monks need all the help they can get and also that it is rather thematic, not because I think the feature intended you to be able to do so.
@@Greg-gg2zj While there are no rules supporting the use of cannon arms to make ranged attacks, there are rules which support using hands to make grapple attempts. That's what I'm getting at here. The grapple rules simply state that you need a free hand to grapple. If your arms have hands, then it's RAW that you can use them to grapple, even if the rules of the ability itself doesn't explicitly state as such.
Essentially, the absence of a ruling in the ability itself means we default to the "normal" rules. In this case, the standard rules simply state "got a free hand? You can grapple."
@@flandarz1 Like you said yourself, nothing limits these astral arms from having only one hand each. That is the danger of playing as, "Well, it doesn't say they aren't free hands, so they must count as free hands." Because that argument leads to them counting as 12 hands each, if you want. The feature says you can choose the appearance exactly because your choice of appearance isn't supposed to have mechanical impact. There is more to something being a free hand for grappling and other actions than just looking like a hand, the same way you don't have a free hand just because you attach a fake arm to your armor.
The normal rule is that a character has only two hands unless a feature gives them extra appendages to perform actions. These features are very explicit about what they can and cannot do. The Thri-keen UA says their extra arms function like their primary arms with a couple exceptions. The key is that the feature established that they function like the character's "normal" arms in general, with a few exceptions. Arms of the Astral Self does not have this. None of the text indicates that they function as fully functional arms or can be used in the same way as your arms. Just that there is an explicit list of benefits your character has while they are active, and "hands to use as grappling" is not one of those benefits.
Like I said, I'd probably allow grappling, at the least, but "the rules don't say a dog can't play basketball" is a dangerous baseline when making rulings. The idea that they intended astral arms to be fully functional arms, but neglected to mention that in the text is a big stretch.
@@Greg-gg2zj There's a bit of precedent in 5e about implicit vs explicit things that can be done. For example, the Mage Hand Cantrip, and Unseen Servant Spell (and pretty much any of the Summon spells) don't explicitly state "you can use these to activate traps", but they're often used for just those purposes. In most cases, the rules are looked at as "if it doesn't say you can't do it, then you can do it". The Astral Arms feature doesn't state "you can't use these to grapple", which it likely would if the designers didn't want you to do it, as they show in the mentioned Thri-Kreen Secondary Arms feature, when they say they can't be used to hold a shield or use any weapons that aren't Light.
Obviously, there's got to be some give and take with the DM as well, since multiple hands, or useless hands attached to your armor, would probably piss them off. I think any reasonable DM would certainly view it your way though, that Astral Arms are, well, arms. And probably have hands. And that those hands should be able to do normal hand stuff.
Just finished watching Baki the grappler so this video comes as a perfect follow up
In terms of falling off a bridge rules, I think RAW you fall at the same speed since there's no rule contradicting the falling rules speed specifically. If you were grapple pushing them off the ledge in theory you are one square behind them and follow them off the bridge, putting you one square above them as you both fall. This part is subject to grapple interpretation as it depends how position is ruled when you drag a grappled target. If all that is the case the enemy falls and takes damage then you fall on them and both if you take half that damage. I'm not sure RAW whether the tashas split fall damage or the Monk slow fall applies first, but either you reduce the damage then split it or you split it then reduce your portion. Logically speaking the Monk should fall at a slower rate, breaking the grapple but having the same falling damage result.
Hear me out.
Goliath for increased carrying capacity.
Strength build so focus on Str- Wis, lower Con, low dex, dump rest. (Point buy).
Bear barbarian for damage resistances, advantage on Athletics, Rage bonus on STR strikes.
Long death Monk for temp HP per kill (lower because of multiclass and possibly not as high Wis mod but count as double due to damage resistance).
I know there might be something more optimal but I like this and I think it works like I want it to.
Also, high speed and advantage on initiative and dex saves, which kind of makes up for the sub par dex, and paired with evasion, you're pretty good. Plus you can spend 1 ki to stay conscious on death monk's 11th level (I'd go for 9 barb, 11 monk).
Maybe you could squeeze a skill expert feat in there for expertise, if you're satisfied with your stats.
Otherwise you can go straight strength based monk and get expertise through skill expert. Strength based might mean lower AC but hey. Who wants to live up to level 20, amiright.
3:56 - The RAW specifically says the grapple is an attack.
It's referenced as a special melee attack. ('Special' isn't an official term in 5e, so we can assume it's just saying it's a different form of attacking). And the very next sentence says "If you are able to make multiple attacks, THIS ATTACK replaces one of them.
So a grapple has to be ruled as an attack. And it is certainly not considered an armed attack with a melee weapon because you can't do a grapple if you are holding a weapon.
I can respect that that this is a 'GM has to rule' scenario, but RAW it seems like the most obvious ruling is that monks can replace STR with DEX when grappling.
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And then there's the question of holding the grapple. (This is what lead me to this video).
The RAW says the grappled person can use DEX or STR to try to escape against the grappler's STR. Why wouldn't DEX vs DEX be an option (especially if the grappler is a monk)? Again, GM will have to rule, but it seems really silly that they can use DEX to escape but I can't use DEX to hold.
A grapple isn't the same as vines holding someone in place. It's a person who's very capable of adjusting to the movements of the person they are grappling.
i think this build might work better on a monkbarian. You can take the unarmored defense of the barbarian instead of the monks, and you can use strength for your unarmed attacks too, making it less reliant on good wisdom score and making you tougher. You could be a bear totem barbarian for the damge reduction to last longer, but since this is more about move grappled enemies, you might want to go for elk insteadd, bringing your final speed to a whoppong 70 feet( or 80 feet if you are a centaur!)
I built a grapple drag build, that I think works better. 3 levels rune knight, 3 levels scout rogue, 3 levels daolock. You'll certainly want fighter until at least 5 at some point. I chose Duergar for enlarge / reduce. Also, at fighter 4 I'd grab Dwarven Fortitude which works well with gift of the ever living ones (which I'd also grab). So round 1: Action, cast spike growth. Action surge, grapple. use your move to drag 15', bonus action dash 15', and when the grappled creatures turn ends you reaction drag another 15'. So that's 45' of drag on round one. Remaining rounds you can use your move to drag, action dash, bonus action dash, and reaction move for a total of 60' per round. Also unarmed, like your monk, so has 2 free hands. Unarmed fighting style give another d4 damage per round as well.
Been waiting for this video! Hopefully this can give Monks some use 🥺
Just watching the "Full Plate Monk" now...
Given "Shield Expert" feels like we still have further ways we could improve this build.
Although "Monk Movement" is a big part of the "Dragger" idea, you could always just Drop the Shield once you've got someone.
Maybe not great, Bonus Action economy is rough on monks.
I made a similar build to this, with the exception that, provided I get dm buy in, I'll be going moon druid to grapple as a direwolf and dragging along spike growth. Can also continue as druid for better wildshapes and spells.
Forced movement ends grapples (I'm fairly certain at least) so if you can sacrifice an ASI, Crusher can push those pesky enemies that refuse to let go from a drop.
Isn't dragging based on you strength score?
Carrying Capacity. Your carrying capacity is your Strength score multiplied by 15. This is the weight (in pounds) that you can carry, which is high enough that most characters don't usually have to worry about it.
Push, Drag, or Lift. You can push, drag, or lift a weight in pounds up to twice your carrying capacity (or 30 times your Strength score). While pushing or dragging weight in excess of your carrying capacity, your speed drops to 5 feet.
so with a strength of 8, your carrying capacity is 120lbs.
if the creature weighs more than that then your speed is reduced to 5 feet.
In chapter 9 of PHB:
Moving a Grappled Creature. When you move, you can drag or carry the grappled creature with you, but your speed is halved, unless the creature is two or more sizes smaller than you.
I think this is what most people assume for dragging a grappled creature. Definitely some ambiguity in the rules though.
@@michaelondic5884 speed is halved assuming the creature doesn't exceed your carrying capacity.
But, it is up to the DM in the end.
RAW you are technically correct -the best kind of correct. This is a very overlooked rule, but moving a grappled creature is supposed to be capped at your drag capacity.
*Moving a Grappled Creature* : When you move, you can *drag or carry* the Grappled creature with you, but your speed is halved, unless the creature is two or more sizes smaller than you.
Given that the game designated values for those terms, well you shouldn’t be able to move something that is beyond your capacity to move. This also gives value to things like Powerful Build, Aspect of the Bear, Enhance Ability, Giant’s Might, Enlarge/Reduce, etc.
JC has tweeted that the intent was for the specific grappling rule to override the more general drag/carry/lift capacity.
His justification was mostly that it simplifies combat by not having to work out weights for every creature in the game. So if you want to implement a weight based limit for more detail, that can be reasonable, but I would not just implement the 30 x strength limit for dragging.
Remember the standard is that any medium creature can grapple and drag any large creature. But if you limit it to 30 x strength, you can't move a warhorse even if you have 29 strength from a belt of storm giant strength. Even with a powerful build type feature and high strength, many large creatures would still be too heavy to drag. 5e has a simple linear relationship between strength and weight capacity, but this leaves high strength characters much more limited than they probably should be.
So if you want a limit because you don't want the 8 strength wizard that got a lucky roll (or used portent) to drag on ogre around, just keep in mind that actual martials don't need to be more limited than they already are when working out what that limit should be.
Here is a quick and dirty way that doesn't require calculating weights. "You can drag a grappled creature if it is your size or smaller. Your speed is halved unless the creature is two or more size categories smaller than you. If your strength is at least 16, you can drag creatures up to one size category larger at half speed."
Powerful build type features could remove the strength limit, and if let you move creatures of one size category smaller at full speed if you have it and high strength.
Stumbled on this video 1 year later, and if the grapple changes are confirmed for One DND Monks will be great grapplers without juggling the build!
Keep in mind that when applying the Fire Rune damage, that their is also a CC rider on the rune text as well; "...it must succeed on a Strength saving throw or be restrained for 1 minute. While restrained by the shackles, the target takes 2d6 fire damage at the start of each of its turns. The target can repeat the saving throw at the end of each of its turns, banishing the shackles on a success..."
Restrained: Creatures speed is zero (free grapple). "Attack rolls against the creature have advantage, and the creature's attack rolls have disadvantage." (free prone). The creature has disadvantage on Dexterity saving throws (debuff favoring group synergy).
I play a Luchador in Pathfinder and I always wondered what it would be like to make him in D&D 5e. Hopefully we can get some more Lucha/Wrestlers in the game. Just don't get too lost in the white void simulation of character building. Do not forget in the real game you have a party to work with and they can cast stuff on you.
My homebrew grappler monk subclass lets me use Dex in grapple and shove checks, and treats grapple and shove as unarmed strikes - at level 3. Astral Self is cool, too. Thanks for doing this build, Monk's action economy and theme is perfect for a grappling specialist, but the RAW doesn't make it as easy bass it should be. Also, Skill Expert, FTW.
There should be a feat or class feature that allows you to use dex instead of str for athletics
@@andrewnorth1471 a feat is a neat idea, that could open up a few other classes to use grappling mechanics. I did a homebrew whipmaster feat that turns Dex-based characters into good grapplers - and lets them stay 10 ft away from the grappled target.
Was thinking the same thing with whip. Indiana Jones style
People sleep on an Armorer Artificer for grappling. Bugbear Armorer Artificer with Tavern Brawler and Grappler. All Int and Con, defensive field, I mean what else do you need? I mean you can get warcaster and then cast spells while in there too.
Interesting concept; any thoughts on a Fairy, 8 Swarmkeeper Ranger, 6 Rune Knight
Fighter, and 6 Way of the Astral Self Monk build. Alternatively, a Dhampir, 8 Hunter Ranger, 6 Rune Knight Fighter, and 6 Way of the Kensei Monk build. Great video as always.
Fairy = Free Enlarge/Reduce, Squat Nimbleness Feat access, and Flight. Swarmkeeper = Free Damage, Utility Movement (self/your opponent), Free Fighting Style, Favored Foe, and Expertise. Way of the Astral Monk = Movement, Flurry of Blows, Magical Unarmed Attacks, and Extra Arms (Arms of the Astral Self). Dhampir = 40 ft. Movement (Small size and the Squat Nimbleness Feat), Spider Climb, and Vampiric Bite. Hunter Ranger = Movement, Free Fighting Style, Expertise, and Extra damage to Vampiric Bite (Hunter's Prey - Colossus Slayer/Favored Foe). Way of the Kensei Monk = Movement, Kensei Weapons (for Vampiric Bite), Deft Strike (can be used on Vampiric Bite), Magical Unarmed Attacks, and Flurry of Blows.
1 Ranger, 6 Rune Knight, 6 Monk, 7 Ranger
I'm considering straight Astral Self Monk with the Plasmoid that's coming out in a few days. In the UA version, at least, plasmoids got advantage on grappling and escaping grapples, so I believe that will get around the need to multi class into Rune Knight Fighter (which you said was to get advantage on strength checks for grappling).
I was under the impression that dragging/carrying an opponent still fell under the encumbrance rules. Wouldn’t a Strength score of 8 allow a character to only drag 120 pounds, or up to 240 pounds with a speed lowered to 5? Using your Wisdom modifier instead of Strength modifier for Strength checks shouldn’t change that.
The intent is that the push/drag/lift rules don't matter for moving a grappled opponent, so you'd only be encumbered if you were already encumbered by your own gear. That said, many DMs might still apply them if you try to use a flying speed to lift a grappled opponent into the air, or do high jumps.
Encumbrance rules are optional, don't know many who play with them. Even if you were, I think it would be odd to override the specific grappling rules which are size based with the general (and optional) encumbrance rules which are weight based. They're pretty clearly for different scenarios, one in combat and one out of combat.
@@trombonegamer14 Encumbrance is a variant, but push/drag/lift limits are actually separate and are not listed as a variant or optional rule. That said, you are correct that the intent is that moving a grappling opponent is not supposed to invoke push/drag/lift rules.
My mistake for writing encumbrance instead of drag/carry rules.
Either way, this clarification makes some sense. I suppose that’s why monster stat blocks don’t list weights.
That said, there might be situations where a STR-8 monk dragging two 2000 lb creatures might hurt the game immersion.
@Hagen024 RAW you are technically correct -the best kind of correct. This is a very overlooked rule, but moving a grappled creature is supposed to be capped at your drag capacity.
*Moving a Grappled Creature* : When you move, you can *drag or carry* the Grappled creature with you, but your speed is halved, unless the creature is two or more sizes smaller than you.
Given that the game designated rules for the values of drag and carry, well you shouldn’t be able to move something that is beyond your capacity to move. This also gives value to things like Powerful Build, Aspect of the Bear, Enhance Ability, Giant’s Might, Enlarge/Reduce, etc.
Would like to see some end of build damage calculations of pulling two enemies in/out or through a damaging effect to see how that compares
Fire Rune specifically states that Fire Rune active effect activates on attacks using a weapon and not weapon attacks, therefore unfortunatelly it wouldnt activate from unarmed strikes since they count as weapon attacks and not weapons. RAW Fire Rune wouldnt activate from unarmed strikes. My DM would allow it but that would depend on DM. Correct me if Im wrong ofc.
Grapples count as a type of unarmed attack so you can grapple with astral arms but I suggest that you grapple 3 arms so that you can use Deflect missile not only that you can use fury of blows to grapple so that's 1 ki point for 3 grapple chances
Dhampir is super deadly
35 ft base movement
Spider climb= hands free climbing up the walls to the roof and if they escape from your grasp while on the ceiling its fall damage and letting go of your victims is a free action so fall damage.
Vampiric bite the real reason to pick Dhampir on demand healing and buff to the next attack roll or ability check so long as the victim isn't a construct or undead.
Attacking without the need for hands even while spider climbing. You do need dedicated weapon and Ki-Fueled Attack but that's not much of a hinderance so at level five if all 3 of your attacks hit the average damage is 27.5
Here's the math
3d6+ (con mod x 3)+ (proficiency x3)
Average 1d6 because the teeth are now monk weapons which is 3 + a 3 to con + the proficiency being 3
9 times 3 successful attacks which is 27
And something dumb but extra fun at level 9 and there's water nearby you can take your victims for a swim and by that I mean drown them and you don't need to worry because your a Dhampir and they have deathless nature which mean you DON'T need to breathe.
Would blind fighting style be an ok alternative? It misses out on the occasional amazing 1d4 damage but it means it's easier to grapple anything invisible?
Grapple doesnt require attack roll so being invisible does nothing. As the disadvantage only apply to Attack roll.
Stupid invisible condition...
Astral sight makes blind fighting even more niche too
I just wanna say, if you're fighting something with force resistance, you're quite screwed. The arms of the astral self are the ones that deal force damage and can use wisdom. Your regular ones don't do either. So, if you gotta slap with your regular hands, you're attacking with dexterity, which is lower.
but there are almost no enemies with force resistance, so its hardly an issue.
I don't see any mentions of this in the comments but Fire Rune is mostly useless to this character. The rune states it can only be used "when you hit a creature with an attack using a weapon" which I think disqualifies unarmed strikes. I would probably take Stone Rune instead for a possible incapacitation effect.
I don’t really understand the value of kenku over vuman or CL for lucky, you only get more kenku advantage than luck points late game and by that point you would already have rune knight anyway. Also luck points work better with grapples than kenku advantage due to when you need to declare that you are going to use it.
With a Kenku you also get proficiencies, mimicry, and the ability to create Expert Duplicates. With so many "optimized" builds going Vuman, it's definitely not a bad thing to deviate from that when you can. Vuman is obviously always a good option. Basically in all scenarios.
A grappling monk is a fighter with 1 level of barbarian. Unarmed Fighting style, battle master, grappling strike, disarming attack. Unarmored from the barbarian. After level 4, pick whatever levels you want and enjoy crushing the life out of your foes!
Dm's please allow the astral arms to grapple!😁
I think the dpr here will be higher in game play then on paper. Its quite likely there will be a spirit guardians, spike growth, moonbeam or wall of fire to drag creatures into. If you are coordinating with party members the dpr on this build can be really good.
You can still choose to use a Monk Weapon (although it would limit the number of Grappled Targets) without any loss of damage to use "Savage Attack", Martial Arts lets you use your "Martial Arts" die as the Damage die for Unarmed Strikes or MONK weapons.
This would also up all of your damage Numbers, as you can (basically) always get some sort of Magical Weapon.
I haven’t finished the video yet for the. full context, but Astral’s wisdom based attacking is limited to unarmed strikes, so accuracy/dmg would be reduced until you start increasing dex.
@@elliotbryant3459 There were so many "Bonus Damage Dice" bouncing around... but if the ones he was talking about when he mentioned Savage Attack is the (Level 11) Astral Self one, then you're right.
Ho, ho, the grapplin' monk, the monk down in the valley oh
Rare monk, the grapplin' monk, the monk down in the valley OH!
I think a reborn owlin would be the best race choice now, you get that Uber powerful fly speed plus among other thing the knowledge of past life that let's you add a d6 to skill checks prof per long rest times. Not quite as strong as the kenkus advantage but I think the over all gains more than make up for it.
finally, the fourth okay monk build has been discovered: the gunk, strunk, munk (mercy monk), and now the grunk
hey Chirs, I'll be playing some grapplers soon, so it was a nice coincidence having those vids now!
I'll be doing it with a homebrew class, The Pugilist (from Sterling Vermin), and this got me thinking,: Did you ever analysed a HB class? since this class has a lot of similarities with monks, but by reading it I think they perform better. How do you analise if a content is good or not?
My guess is you didn't since you'll not be using it, as most likely it won't be allowed in optimized tables, also usually having to pay just to check stuff is a big turn down on looking for any good homebrew content (you're not sure if it's actually good before paying it, and can't even be sure if you'll use it).
still, doesn't hurt to ask. Love your Channel, been learning a lot with you, d4 and others since last year
I think the Strength vs Wisdom check issue is actually a non-issue. Reading the Variant entry re: skills with other abilities, I think the astral arms entry is a specific invocation of this rule variant since it’s an Athletics check.
despite it being cited as a strength check, because you’re using Athletics, since the wisdom modifier is used they become wisdom checks, so shifting or starsdruid dragon form apply normally. This is my interpretation.
The Gramonkaler!
Feels like you forgot about Tortles. They make fantastic STR based monks and you don't have bump dex at all. This would allow you to build a better subclass.
when the plasmoid comes out that will work well as a race with advantage on grapples.