Personally have enjoyed taking Fey Touched feat to grab my Arcane Archer, not only Misty Step but, Hex. The latter spell alows you to use a bonus action to give the target disadvantage on the Grasping Arrow Strength ability check (+1d6 dmg), prior to you taking the attack action.
I like it a lot, since you feel like a Ranger anyways, so you get an (for this occasion) improved Hunter's Mark. I thought about taking the Telekinetic feat for triggering the Grasping Arrow slashing damage. While your DC won't be amazing, it's a free use of the bonus action you lose by not being able to go Crossbow Expert and you get a Wisdom increase and invisible Mage Hand on top, which is never bad.
@@buraeen5735 I guess that's better, but it is also a higher investment with a lvl AND a feat which you will get later through taking that warlock level. The question is: Does the extra damage from the Dao feat count as being part of the attack itself in RAW?
@@0ff5PR1NG I agree it is harder to get to. I'm assuming it works RAW, but not entirely sure. Thought I remembered TM using it for spike growth before which seems the same to me, but I didn't do any checking to make sure.
Big brain time: When you miss, use Curving Shot to turn the arrow back at yourself, then use the Monk Reflect Projectiles to throw it again as a reaction
If it only didn't cost a bonus action, a reaction, a ki point and the possibility of not reducing all damage at all and just damage yourself I think it could be a good idea
1:40 Opinions like this are why I hate Hand Crossbows (or rather bonus action attack part of Crossbow Expert). When anyone thinks of a ranged build, Hand Crossbow is assumed automatically. Any other option is just unviable for them. And the worst is, in most cases they're right. Glad you've decided to defend the proud name of Longbow here.
I mean, I think you have to take a hard look at what you consider "viable" is. A baseline fighter without subclass is viable in most campaigns. The worst monk subclass is still viable in 95% of most campaigns. I like to optimize the characters I make, but I like starting or having an idea rather than just a weapon and a feat.
I loathe the hand crossbow, not least because it didn't even exist until the late 70s and has no place in a medieval fantasy game. But I also have no interest in a "ranged" weapon with an effective range of 30 feet ... and unlike the sling (I used to hit tin cans with a sling at 40 or so yards back when I was a teenager-and I was no expert marksman), the range on the hand crossbow is fairly accurate in the game.
Hand crossbows should be 1d4 damage like in previous editions. Especially if they basically net you the bonus action attack that pole arm master gives. Would they still be good? Yes, would more players think hard on a two die drop on damage. I think so.
@@jamesbolt1003 Nah, Hand Crossbows themselves are fine. What needs nerf is the bonus action attack. I personally would remove it completely, turning Crossbow Expert into a half-feat almost exactly like Gunner. I get that people may like the flavor of rapidly firing hand crossbows, but I don't see how you can nerf it while keeping the flavor.
@@antongrigoryev6381 but it's shooting a tiny bolt from a toy gun looking crossbow. A thrown dagger is only 1d4. How does this toy earn 1d6? The point on it looks to be the size of a caltrop.
I’ve said it before and i’ll likely say it again, i never get tired of being mentioned in Chris’ videos. This is content i am more than happy to support.
I feel like it's worth noting that Shadow Arrow, if they fail the save, sets you up to have advantage for the rest of your attacks this turn. A great time to Action Surge and lay down some Sharpshooter hits, especially if you got Elven Accuracy.
It's also beneficial for everyone else on your team. You're giving advantage to other ranged combatants like the rogues, rangers, and spellcasters using attack roll spells and cantrips. It's also going to benefit e.g. the Paladin who took polearm master and sentinel to try and tank for the party, as he can just stand 10' away and poke the bad guy with advantage for free.
@@alanschaub147 yeah, I think so. That teleport will also help you get in position, and get away if they get in melee. Plus, since Arcane Archer can't use Crossbow Expert, you don't have as much competition for your bonus action
I feel like a Samurai does the Sharpshooter + Elven Accuracy thing better. No saves involved and if you drop your target before running out of attacks (which could happen while action surging) you still have advantage against any other targets you switch to since it's a buff on you, not a debuff on them.
Grasping Arrow also works on literally everything. Immune to grappled condition? This isn't the grappled condition. Incorporeal? Doesn't matter. It still works. Throw in enemies with a legendary action that involves moving? Sure you can use that... But you eat damage for it. I'd save this one for big, scary enemies with a lot of health. Most fights go 2-3 rounds, so it would hardly affect things unless you're dealing with a damage sponge.
Nonstandard spells and effects that dodge traditional immunities are invaluable late-game. Which ironically makes game effects that are kind of pants like Confusion suddenly valuable to have as a backup.
The AA really only needs one fix, scaling uses as prof bonus instead of a flat 2. Although some of the weaker shots could use a damage increase before level 18; maybe at level 11?
Yeah, 1d8 at 11th level and another 1d8 at 18th sounds like it would even out the progression, just like either using Proficiency Bonus or, as Cris suggests, adding a shot at 7th, 11th and 15th or 18th would even out progression as well. But if a DM were to add shots using either of these methods, I'd suggest dumping Ever-Ready Shot, as these features really are quite powerful. But the thing is, the Arcane Archer doesn't really need to be more *powerful.* It just needs to even out its progression a bit. ;-)
@@morganpetros9635 Well I was think of d6s not d8s. Evening out the power progression was exactly my point. Instead of doubling the bonus damage at 18, gradually increase it by one die until doubled at 18. Tracking and piecing shots might get an extra d6 that way, but they are the weakest options anyways.
I would disagree with regards to increasing available shots, because I see the AA more like a 1/3 warlock, looking at their ranged shots equating to eldritch blast and the arcane shots like their pact slots. This would then lead to damage increases at lvl 10 and 15.
While Peircing arrow is quite weak, it's worth noting that if your DM gives you specialized magic arrows, such as an arrow of slaying. Piercing arrow allows you to apply their effects to multiple creatures.
Sometimes, I feel like I'm the only person that just hates the hand crossbow. I wish it didn't exist, except maybe as a 1-2 dmg ranged poison delivery system ( with no static modifiers). My suspension of disbelief isn't strong enough to accept it being the super weapon 5e has made it.
That's fair, that tiny little weapon is somehow better to use than a longbow. But I suppose you could flavour it to be a shortbow instead, and keep the benefits of the hand crossbow
My DM has banned the things entirely. But then he, like myself is a medieval longbow archer, and both of us have shot hand crossbows. We were not impressed to say the least. Someone trying to claim a piddly little toy crossbow could have anything close to the impact of a 160+ lb at 36 draw weight War Bow has no idea what they are talking about. Hell a medieval longbow had serious difficulty penetrating even the weak points in full plate historically, the guy wearing that armour is not even going to notice the bolt from a hand crossbow. Even worse, a hand crossbow is no faster to cock and fire than a big war bow. So no, you are not the only person who hates the things, and I hate even more that min maxers have made it the weapon of choice for so many archer builds in AD&D.....
Certainly not the only one. It's one of the biggest Suspension of Disbelief plinkers in the game--more than Fireball, honestly. If going for a CBE build, I think it makes a tonne of sense to do what im hulki suggests and calling it a Short Bow, but using the Hand Crossbow stats and range and such. If it's all make believe (it is) who's to say it has to look like a Hand Crossbow? So long as someone doesn't do things which require a bow and not a hand crossbow, so long as there's no actual rules advantage and just gets less silly, should be fine.
Completely agree. I don’t think I have ever considered giving any of my characters a crossbow. Even though CBE is a great feat, actual bows just look cooler.
I honestly think that 1-2 dmg is a bit of an overkill as a nerf, as you're basically saying a mechanically drawn bolt is the equivalent delivery system compared to someone's lungs. (A Blowgun already deals 1 + Dex Mod in damage.) Though I do agree that the damage should be reduced a bit, turning that d6 into a d4. As you stated, the Hand Crossbow is more intended to deliver poisons rather than raw damage. So I think a d4 fits well into its constructed (and expensive, 75gp) nature, while not encroaching on other superior (and cheaper) ranged options. In addition, the Range on the Hand Crossbow should be reduced from 30/120 to 20/80. (Watching a few videos of them, the Hand Crossbow has a dubious accuracy at 30ft and has issues penetrating at 100+ feet.) The Hand Crossbow definitely shouldn't be a high pick for a Fighter or Ranger, but even with these changes, the Hand Crossbow would and should still feel at home in the hands of the Rogue. If these reductions still arent enough, you're honestly better off either banning or regulating what weapons the Sharpshooter Feat allows +10 damage bonus applies to or to the Crossbow Expert Feat.
An important thing to remember about longbow vs handcrossbow is range. Sure, in a dungeon crawl it may not matter much, but bonus action attack or not, if you're getting two or more rounds of free attacks before the enemy can even begin to threaten you because you're several hundred feet away, in those situations longbow easily outperforms handcrossbow.
Both are very reasonable. My games - both the ones I DM and the ones I play in - tend to have 0 combat on most days, or maybe one unusual one (usually meaning there were a bunch of ways to handle a thing and the players woke up and chose violence). But then you hit your 'dungeon crawl' days where they're in enemy territory and then a lot of encounters can certainly make sense.
i for sure run the game with 3 to 4 encounters in a busy day. 1 on a rest day. I sometimes get to 6 when the “pressure is on” and the “clock is ticking.” You should see those PCs sweat, but they are selling themselves short.
I think a telekinetic arcane archer could be good. Gives you something to do with your BA if all your sharpshooter shots hit. Plus it gives an intelligence boost
Dunno. It only has a range of 30 feet. If I'm a ranged character, I probably would want to take full advantage of the range and stay as far as I can from the enemies. Doubly so considering that we don't have CE and can't shoot if we get into melee, in which case we'll need to spend a whole turn to disengage if enemies get to us.
@@antongrigoryev6381 Your still a fighter with a d10 hit die, and the monsters speed will be reduced by 10 feet automatically and you can push it 5 feet away. Even assuming your the only one with forced movement it is still a strong move.
@@MarcLucksch Oh, *YES.* This is a great way to get Hex without dipping into warlock and having to improve your CHA on a build that's already pretty MAD. After all, you can improve your INT and use that for the spell's DC instead of Charisma. Only problem is, you could only cast it once per long rest unless you multiclassed into a spellcaster class, but then you could go Wizard ... and I love the Shield spell for lightly armored builds ... ;-)
I love the concept of an arcane archer! I want to make it work well, I considered multiclassing with arcane trickster, 2 attacks, consistent damage, and more spells and utility.
Battlesmith is a reasonable way to go; I also considered dipping into it on my Hexbow. It wouldn’t have been until really high levels, though; too much good Hexblade stuff before then.
@@adamkaris Battlesmith also gives you a pet that can take the Help action, giving you Advantage on one attack ... which helps offset the -5 you're going to take using Sharpshooter. Or possibly two if you choose to learn to build a homunculus.
@@adamkaris I think battlesmith works best the other way around, dipping into arcane archer rather than an arcane archer dipping into battlesmith. Because you are building with Int as your primary stat, you would want battlesmith as soon as possible so you start there. But if after level 3 you go arcane archer, you're not getting extra attack until level 8, and that's rough. So arcane archer dipping into battlesmith is only good if you build with int as your primary stat and start close to level 8.
Yeah, not getting more uses of the special shots at 7 and 10 does suck. You are getting diminishing returns on your arcane shot choices, because (unlike spells) you don’t get access to new options. Battlemaster has that problem too, technically, but has more maneuvers to choose from and gets more uses of the maneuvers earlier. Still, I agree that the arcane archer is not bad overall, and is underrated. Good video, as usual.
@@bodbyss It is absolutely impossible for me to image a shortbow that can be fired one handed. Of course, I can imagine firing a crossbow one handed, but my mind stops when I try to explain how a crossbow can be reloaded one handed.
After some brainstorming, I can imagine how to fire a shortbow one-handed. you have a belt around your torso, you have a hook on that belt to hold the bowstring next to the arrow . You move your arm close to your body and catch the arrow and the string. then you push the bow out. You have a thumb ring that attaches near the head of the arrow. with the arrow nocked, you can unhook, aim the bow, and release the arrow with a flick of the thumb. But this is a stunt, not a practical way to gain an extra attack with your off-hand every six seconds. But I still have no idea how to reload a crossbow one-handed.
@@shishkabobby RAW you need to have a free hand to load a bolt into the hand crossbow (not cause of loading, but because of ammunition) so you can't fire a hand crossbow more than once if you don't have a free hand. So just use the shortbow normally and have your other hand empty.
Piercer feat plus heavy crossbow I just did some math for Fighters, so I thought I'd share. People often say the hand crossbow with crossbow expert is the best combination at low levels, but I just found some love for the heavy crossbow and piercer feat. With custom lineage you start with an 18 dex, instead of a 16 or 17. I'm not going to show all calculations, but the average damage for a regular hit with a d10 and piercer is 6.75 instead of the average 5.5. This leaves the hand crossbow with a hefty 13 average damage to 10.75 average damage lead on regular hits. This is where most people stop doing their homework, so I will continue with some damage per round calculations for you. Hand Crossbow Expert Heavy Crossbow Piercer Average Regular Damage 13 10.75 Average Critical Damage 20 22.75 To Hit AC 13 average damage 9.45 8.66 Crossbow Expert still wins right. 9.45 vs 8.66 is better. Let's dig a little deeper and remember a couple things. The Heavy Crossbow Piercer has one better AC, initiative, dexterity saves and skill checks, and doesn't use up your bonus action. So what happens in a 4 round fight when you have to start using your resources. I'll look at first and second/third levels. 4 round fight using second 8.27 8.66 wind 4 round fight using second 9.45 10.25 wind and action surge My conclusion is that the hand crossbow expert is better in generic fights, but when it hits the fan, the Heavy Crossbow Piercer pulls in the lead. Now, depending on your dm's style, the 0 foot range of the hand crossbow expert might be better than the 100 foot short range of the heavy crossbow. A fighter can always pull out a rapier and shield at 0 feet, while still being able to utilize the benefits of the piercer feat. Between 30 and 100 feet, there is no contest as the heavy crossbow won't be at disadvantage. I hope you found this interesting, Chris
I'm always impressed with your analysis. I finally joined your Patreon. Thank you for making me a more fun player at the table and a better dungeon master.
Off topic, but Prestidigitation is amazing, especially for evil or anti-establishment characters. Nothing cleans up a crime scene like Prestidigitation!
I played a necromancer that used prestidigitation to clean up after his skeleton minions murdering a poor drunk dude. Naturally the body did not go to waste and my army increased that night...
@@kibbo86 I didn't murder him. My skeletons murdered him. They were told to kill any intruders in my room at the inn and the DM concluded a drunk guy wandering in and getting shanked would be funny. She was correct.
The combo Arcane Archer with Grasping Arrow + a Warlock with Hex and repulsive blast, cursing Strength checks, has really too many synergies! It can really be devastating - likely is just a win.
I think its bad on its own, as a 3 level fighter splash it might actually not be terrible because it gets very little meaningful from levels 4+ compared to other fighters. So take 3 levels of it (maybe 4 for the ASI) then take an archery based ranger for the rest of your career. You'll only have 2 arcane shot options, but you can pick the 2 most iconic to your character concept. A disgusting combination for an Arcane Archer/Ranger would be to take the archery style with ranger, and the martial adept style with fighter, take the intimidating battlemaster maneuver (frightened condition) and when you use the Grasping Arrow ALSO apply the frightened condition, which disadvantages ability checks. Now if they want to remove the vines its not just an athletics check its a disadvantaged athletics check.
I think it's completely the opposite. It's so niche if you are going to do it you might as well solo class so you get the benefits of being a full fight like that third extra attack. Going ranger you will be delaying extra attack and require intel and Wis.
thing is, fighters also peak in power from 4 to 6 because of feats You don't get more shots but you get two feats if you want, and than you can move to another class if you desire. If you're starting fighter there is no sense in not going straight to 5 for extra attack anyway so it's easy to imagine another lvl for a feat. I like the combo you mentioned, and tbh this subclass pairs well with most rangers (gloomstalker, fey wanderer and swarmkeeper notably)
@@Booklat1 if you are playing a martial, you should choose which you want to focus on imho. otherwise you are having wasted features in duplicated extra attack. For the treantmonk testcase sort of campaign, I would start 1 level in fighter - I like con save and multiclassing into ranger gives you a skill, 5 into ranger, then my last 2-3 levels into fighter before going back to ranger. Missing out action surge until later sucks, but you have to choose whether you want consistent or bursty damage and the consistent extra attack is probably better than 1 action surge. For bonus action, I might suggest you actually go beastmaster ranger so you get a personal "tank" and a way to weaponize your bonus action without having to go crossbow expert.
I like it the other way around. A two, three, or four level dip in Ranger would give you both the Archery fighting style plus Defense or Superior Technique without using a feat, not to mention a limited suite of first level spells. You might as well concentrate on one of those if you're focused primarily on being a Fighter and they could feel like additional arcane options beyond your two arrows. 17 levels of Arcane Archer with 3 levels of Monster Slayer added in the mid game is basically Hawkeye.
Also if you're trying to focus on Grasping Arrow, Rangers can also learn Spike Growth. Difficult terrain minus ten feet of movement could be crippling, and is a natural fit for a party planning on abusing forced movement.
One thing that feels kinda bad about Arcane Archer: you get two magic shots per short rest. Contrast an Eldritch Knight or Bladesinger, who gets a magical sword attack every round with cantrips like Booming Blade and Green Flame Blade, plus various spells to use a few times per day for big control effects. If the Arcane Archer had a few cantrip-level options you could use at will (maybe even at the cost of multiple attacks) or minor augments to attacks (like Eldritch Blast invocations, or Way of the Open Hand monk effects), it'd help the class overall feel more special. Even if the peaks of the Arcane Archer are worthwhile, it's important to do cool things in the valleys as well, so that you actually feel *ARCANE*.
yea it really sucks. What I, and other DMs in my group, have done is moved it to prof/day for magic shot. Still not a ton of uses but it helps and doesnt let it get crazy out of control.
@@vaalnailo5789 I guess I mind less having few "spell slot" style abilities, but it'd be wonderful to have some Cantrip-style ones, too. Warlocks spend most of their career with 2 spell slots. But they've got invocations and Eldritch Blast to feel special. Many "magic martial" characters have Booming Blade and Green Flame. Arcane Archer having something like those without resource cost would be sweet, and you'd feel ARCANE all the time.
@@thebitterfig9903 Yea, even if it's something as small as an extra d4 (since fighters get so many attacks) of an elemental damage type per arrow or something like that. Just that lil bit extra can make it *feel* magical. Just that extra spice.
I would argue save DC is the biggest downside to the arcane archer, because if it scaled with dex like the battlemaster, I could see the justification for only 2 shots as opposed to maneuvers. For a ranged character, the arcane shots effects are better than maneuvers.
If you think about it? The AA subclass makes the Fighter MAD. It was probably on purpose to make it seem more balanced. But I took it and ran with it, multiclassed into Wizard.
@@snazzyfeathers that's a great idea, shield and absorb elements can balace less investment into constitution (or at least that's how i would do it because you are already far away from the enemies being a ranged character). Also teleportation effects
I think you'll get a lot more out of Ranger where the core attack and defence is the same for most levels of play. Action Surge may be quite powerful but the flexibility of spells AND ranger class features are just so much fun and can be powerful even if not as obviously powerful as Action Surge.
I'd homebrew the addition, that, at the appropriate levels and in addition to the various Arcane Shots, the Arcane Archer gets Cordon of Arrows, Melf's Acid Arrow, Flame Arrows, Lightning Arrow, and Swift Quiver. Lean into the "arcane" a little more.
Yea, I'm a big Grasping Shot is awesome preacher. One thing I think is neat about Piercing Arrow is that it applies the damage to targets as if they were hit by the arrow. In our games, magic arrows with extra damage are common enough. So a +3 arrow, for example, does its bonus damage on all targets. Toss in something like Divine Favor and that applies too. It's still not close to beating Grasping Shot, but I think it gives it an edge on Bursting Arrow at my table.
I kinda wish Arcane Archer had another feature that scales of intelligence (maybe your arcane shot uses or a limited bonus to damage/attack roll equal to int). That way increasing your intelligence wouldn't feel like chore just to keep your shots effective.
this is what hurts me with AA too. I guess it's nice that AA doesn't need Int for, say, AC or something, but it still FEELS like you're losing out because of the MAD.
@@youtubeisawebsite7484 Say... an alternate AC of 10 + Dex + Int could be nice. At +2 int (an easy enough starting value) you've basically got free Studded Leather. Things just get better from there. Dumping Int would be no worse than status quo (you could still wear armor and function, unlike a Monk), but investing those many Fighter ASIs into stats rather than feats at a high level would eventually pay off.
Grasping arrow forces the target to make ability checks to try and remove the arrow? Pair that with the hex spell, and make the target even less likely to succeed on that strength check.
I think that an 8 encounter day with only one short rest is incredibly unlikely. It would balance it on a 5 encounter day with 2 short rests. That’s what usually happens in my experience.
I believe that's kind of the point. These numbers are intentionally the worst case scenario (or close to it) so pretty much everyone can depend on seeing these numbers, or better, at their table. Anything else and, since this is the internet, you end up with people saying a build doesn't work at a serious table, or that TM is fudging the numbers to make things look better then they would be in play. ...That's my take at least
@@mozartdminor It's the worst case scenario for a short rest class, sure, but we're talking about a lot more than short rest classes. If we're comparing classes and subclasses, as TM is, this will have the effect of boosting long rest classes above short rest classes, since the short rest classes suffer so much having only a single short rest for 8 encounters. So TM *is* fudging the numbers to make things better then they would be in play, just for the other classes.
I use 6 encounters and 2 short rests with 3 rounds per encounter. I think this one is the most fair to DPR, Long Rest and Short Rest classes. There is worse case scenarios for all of them, but none of them should ever be more than a 25% difference. And if there is, it'll be quickly visible.
At our table we rarely take 2 short rests, 1 or none is more likely because there’s almost always a time limit or chase component at our table - straight exploration, dungeon crawling is atypical.
For piercing arrow, it would depend on how your DM rules, but it specifically states that creatures take damage as if hit by an arrow. You might be able to convince your DM that RAI you could apply sharpshooter - especially if the alternative is you just always use grasping arrow. Another reason to take piercing arrow over bursting arrow or others is that it lets you shoot through objects and, since it states creatures take damage as if hit by an arrow, you could reason that allows you to apply banishing arrow or grasping arrow. I don't know how a DM would adjudicate it, but you could pull off things like shooting a piercing arrow through a wall of force or a wall of stone and banishing the caster on the other side?
I agree, my immediate thought when I saw that wording was you declare you are making an attack with an arrow, declare it is a sharpshooter attack, and then apply your arcane shot to the arrow. Your dm may claim thats not the way the shot is intended to work which is totally fair but I think considering how limited the shots are used taking advantage of a feat in this situation is just as fair
Another cool thing is, if you can get +3 arrows or even arrows with extra effects on them (e.g., Divine Favor), you can apply that extra damage across all enemies hit.
one dirty necromancer combo if the party can pull it off, is one ally casting elemental bane [fire] onto an enemy, while the wizard casts flame arrows and distributes them to to the skeleton archers -and any other bow user in the mix. 12 arrows that once per creature's turn deals 4d6+Modifiers (+Prof for undead minions) and bypasses fire resistance on a hit. Granted it helps if the target is lower AC since skeletons only have +4 to hit]. And should the wizard-archer get a kill with their shot using one of these arrows they also regain 6hp lol!
As someone playing an Arcane Archer, thanks for defending the merits of the subclass. Yeah, there are more optimal damage dealers. I'm at lvl 6 right now and I started with grasping arrow and bursting arrow. Having an early AOE option at range has come in handy, and I'm glad I hadn't take banishing arrow that early. Also shadow arrow is(for most but not all enemies) a good way to give yourself advantage if you can get it to proc on your first shot because you can take advantage of being unseen for your shots and the shots of your allies until your next turn. But then again, the likelihood of passing the save until you get your INT higher is the challenge.
Prestidigitation does give the Arcane Archer access to the Eldritch Adept feat, though, which can provide some very tangible benefits to practically any build. I mean, Devil's Sight is an option, and it's *really* powerful.
That's... an interesting interaction I hadn't thought of before. Now I'm thinking that things like Armor of Shadows, Fiendish Vigor, and Mask of Many Faces might be worth a feat for certain character concepts, especially on a Fighter.
Arcane Archer grants the fighter the ability to cast a cantrip, but it doesn't give the fighter the Spellcasting feature. For Eldritch Adept to be a feat the fighter is eligible for, they have to have spell slots of some sort, like an Eldrirch Knight.
Thank you SO much for doing a longbow build. I’m all for optimizing, but for me it’s more about how do I make a character I want to build turn out viable. It doesn’t need to be the ultimate min-maxed build. So bring on the longbows, the Dex-based fighters, the dual welders and the fairy enchanter mind-control builds!
For Bursting Arrow, I would have also pointed out the friendly fire. You can't choose to avoid allies with this one - if they're within 10ft of the target, they get hurt automatically, no save.
I had an arcane archer in a campaign, and he did absolutely insane amounts of damage. Especially at 11+, between 3 attacks/ round, action surge, and sharpshooter, he and the barbarian could often do 200-250 dmg to a foe in one round of combat. I literally had to balance encounters by giving bosses hordes of minions just so the archer couldn't burn the boss in 1 or 2 rounds.
Ah, but that only works if the Arcane Archer can't see the BBEG and the rest of the party doesn't have any kind of ranged forced movement to use on it ... ;-)
@@ericmunnisjr4763 in fact, samurais and battlemasters can do it better than AAs AA's gameplan: enemy fails Shadow Arrow save, Sharpshooter, death Samurai Gameplan: fighting spirit, sharpshooter, Death
I saw some suggestions somewhere to tune up arcane archer without giving them more shot uses. The suggestions were to let you concentrate for one minute on the Beguiling, Banishing, Enfeebling, and Shadow arrows. This gives some more value for your shots without giving you more uses, kinda like how warlock can make their pact slots more impactful by choosing good concentration options. *And* to learn a 1st level wizard/druid spell corresponding to the magic school of each magic shot option you know, which you can cast each once for free per Long Rest. So at 3rd level if you choose Banishing Arrow and Bursting Arrow, you could choose to learn Absorb Elements (Abjuration) and Faerie Fire (Evocation). This gives you the option to choose some damaging spells if you want, or go for more utility. And potentially gives you a reason to choose one of the weaker arcane shots because you might want to learn a certain 1st level spell, like choosing Beguiling Arrow because you want to learn Silvery Barbs.
Back in the day when this was a prestige class I would roll them as a wizard mostly. The result was a wizard that relied on arrows for saving spell slots, but when a spell was needed I had them ready. Plenty of utility and solid ranged attacks. Some would argue it was a less powerful wizard or an underperforming archer, but I felt pretty capable compared to the other party members.
My first ever character was an Arcane Archer, I didn’t know much about the game though so I don’t know if it was good or bad. Nostalgia will always make me like it though. :)
Hang on, hand crossbows only have THIRTY FEET OF NORMAL RANGE? Why haven't I heard about this before, and why don't hand crossbow builds ever mention this? I guess sharpshooter lets you attack normally from 120 feet away but oof until you get sharpshooter at level 4 or 8 or whatever you're probably going to be within walking distance of an enemy if you actually try to use your hand crossbows to attack (you could be 45 feet away, then move to 30 feet away, shoot, and then back up to 45, but oof you are still really close to the enemy)
The Hand Crossbow builds I see always take Variant Human or Custom Lineage with Sharpshooter, so it never matters because from level 1 they can fire at the max range without disadvantage. I think they should include a disclaimer if they don't take Sharpshooter at character creation, though I can't explicitly recall any.
I love this, but I feel like comparing Arcane Archer's DPR to a straight Crossbow Expert + Sharpshooter build without adding the battlemaster maneuvers into the equation is disingenuous. You even mention in the level 3 comparison that they don't get anything at level 3 (since they don't get sharpshooter until 4), but they should be getting quite a bit, whether it's Precision Attack increasing the chances of landing a sharpshooter attack, or using any of the maneuvers that let's you deal additional damage after knowing that you hit the target. Just at level 3, they should be adding 14 damage per short rest to your calculator (4x 1d8 extra damage), which I imagine means they come out ahead at level 3 and probably for a while past that. I only mention this because at the beginning of your video you talk about how Arcane Archer can be stronger than BM. I love the arcane archer's theme and feel though, and I'm grateful you're giving it some love.
Is it just me or creatures hit by Grasping Arrow can only take the slashing dmg once per turn? It is written "the first time on each turn it moves" ...
I think Grasping Arrow definitely has a lot of potential, but personally I think if you're trying to build around it, you really need to coordinate with party members to make sure they're actually going to be able to synergize with it. The game I'm currently in, for example, no one has forced movement abilities. Seems like just getting 2d6/round (or 0 if they're already next to their target) in this case wouldn't scale all that well. Late game I'd think monsters would be fine just tanking it over spending their actions.
Good reason to take Telekinetic then, or multiclass to Swarmkeeper ranger or maybe Dao patron warlock and take Repelling Blast and Grasp of Hadar to go with your Eldritch Blast, Hex and Spike Growth spells. But yeah, getting other party members to cooperate and coordinate is definitely a good idea.
Unknowingly brought banishing arrow into a particular place where spells to get "out" of the dungeon such as teleportation, indeed to move to another plane would be redirected to a certain room. That was interesting and boosted it up a bit in power.
My arcane archer was really bored with his abilities as he levelled up, due to the limited uses of arcane shot. I gave him a feature at level 10 to be able to cast Lightning Arrow and Flame Arrow up to his INT modifier number of times per long rest, and he can change the damage type to Acid, Cold, Fire, Lightning, Poison or Thunder. At 15th level both spells upcast to 4th level, and at level 18 they upcast at to 5th level. He also gets at level 18 the ability to cast Swift Quiver once per long rest, and while concentrating on SQ enemies have disadvantage on saves against his Arcane Shots. He's level 14 rn, expected to hit 15 by the end of Descent into Avernus and from there the campaign can go anywhere.
I think the most elegant solution to their problem is having their arcane shots per short rest be based on their Proficiency Bonus, replace their Everready Shot with a new once per short rest ability, maybe something like Heart-rending Arrow, which is a guaranteed hit/crit with an extra 2d6 damage, and then make some tweaks to other shots to make them worthy of use. It's sad when you have many options and only one of them stands out.
sharpshooter says: Before you make an attack with a ranged weapon that you are proficient with, you can choose to take a -5 penalty to the attack roll. If that attack hits, you add +10 to the attack's damage. piercing arrow says: On a failed save, a creature takes damage as if it were hit by the arrow, plus an extra 1d6 piercing damage. When you use this option, you don’t make an attack roll for the attack. On a successful save, a target takes half as much damage. Since i declare the penalty before the option to not make an attack roll, and after that a creature takes damage as if it were hit by the arrow, i would assume this piercing shot works with every single creature you hit with it.
If you want the poison damage from grasping arrow to be reliable, Multiclass into Horizon Walker Ranger and use Planar Warrior to turn all that attack's damage to force, plus the additional 1d8(2d8) force damage. Also access to Ranger spells like Zephyr Strike, Hunter's Mark, and Absorb Elements. Or use Favored Foe if it's the first turn of combat or if you aren't concentrating on something, since it can be applied, on hit.
So, what you're SAYING is, I should start with a Grasping Arrow, Action Surge to cast _Tasha's caustic brew_ (by feat or multiclass, doesn't matter too much), and laugh as they have to take two separate actions to end two separate instances of extra damage on them?
@@imhulki463 even better, I recently realized an 11th level artificer of any kind (with access to _find familiar_ ) can imbue a sling with _web_ and tie it to their familiar who uses it. Meanwhile, you cast _Tasha's caustic brew,_ with higher level slots even, on enemies within the _web._ It's an action to break free of _web_ (which they could fail) and an action to get rid of the acid. I'm playing an artificer right now, but I'm only 10th level. I'm really looking forward to level 11.
Too bad crusher has only +1 to con or str because that and a single level dip in Dao Lock would net you a Hex per short rest for str check disadvantage, no save forced movement (so a free 2D6 from grasping shot on your turn), PB damage added once per attack from bottled respite. So with that and hex that is 4D6+3 extra damage. If you dip Dao at lvl 7. Also what would stop you from pulling out a finesse weapon on turn and hitting with booming blade when you can't disengage. You can stow the weapon for free next turn to go back to ranged stuff. This would push them away (Dao crusher) and they would have to take booming damage to close the gap.
Couldn't you stack Grasping Arrow with the Poisoner feat to get even more mileage out of it? Poisoner allows you to ignore poison resistance. Since the poison you can make gives the target disadvantage on Ability saving throws (assuming they fail it, of course - it IS a Con ST), it would be less likely for them to remove the effect.
this is probably the best use i've seen to poisoner along with using it for green dragonborn I think the feat is underpowered either way tbh, for more than a few reasons even, but it is an interesting combo that I could see being used if you can spend the 50 gold. At least it gives the feat something cool to be used with.
Seeking arrow is a good counter for invisibility. It's a bit niche to encounter it. But when you do, you want something like seeking arrow. Something fighters won't normaly get (save maybe a 8th level eldritch knight picking up see invisible)
I think you've underrated shadow arrow in a group with more ranged players. Just as grasping excels in a group with more forced movement, shadow is amazing in a ranged attack group. Yourself included. Shadow arrow is burst time, it's when you'd action surge and focus fire something down. It also excels against your ranged or spellcaster enemy. Let's not forget how many spells require sight to work, it doesn't merely impose disadvantage on spell attacks, it negates many spells entirely. For these reasons, I rate shadow arrow higher, 2nd to grasping, if a little bit group dependent. It is competing for 2nd place with banishing arrow imo. I'd also emphasize telekinetic as a feat a bit more for this subclass, it fills out your turn, giving you a reliable bonus action, lets Force that movement each of your turns for grasping arrow damage, and as we're not taking crossbow expert, we're worried about things getting into mellee with us and imposing disadvantage on our ranged attacks. Telekinesis shove lets us push them off us first, before firing. All while being a half feat. Yes curved shot uses some bonus actions, coming online at 7, but that is late, and not always needed.
This has some of my favorite flavor for any subclass. My only issue with it is the hard limit to the arcane arrows, as it doesn't feel great to only have two uses of something and essentially be out of all of your subclass's unique features. Earlier this year I designed an entirely non-magic archer martial archetype, and the core of that design was the idea that you could expend a certain number of attacks to use different types of arrows. For one example, you could use two attacks to create and fire a tether arrow, and bind yourself or a creature or object in place. I've found that it works pretty well!
Arcane archer/ battle Smith artificer combo. Infuse your weapon and all attacks are made with intelligence bonus now. You get a steel defender which can take aggro in the frontlines while you sit in the back making solid damage between your attacks and bonus action attack from the defender. Use warding bond to make its health go farther as you split its damage with yourself. Take sharpshooter with variant human and archery fighting style and rush intelligence ASI. At level 5 you have +7 to hit easily and can start sharpshooting with more confidence. Battle field control, accuracy, damage output, crafting, utility spells....
lol, I literally just made an Arcane Archer for a new campaign that started yesterday. Except I homebrewed all of this to be non-magical and use boomerangs and bolas instead of bows.
I like the concept of a Battle Smith with a 3 Lvl dip into arcane archer. fey touched with hex and the steel defender and you turn into a cyber ranger. after you hit with grasping arrow you can order your defender (with a bonus action) to grab and shove the target. I envision him/her as a Tortle who was damaged by an explosion and replaced parts of the body/shell with tinkered gimmicks and the the Defender is a spider-like creature, that is wrapped around the shell. I would also pick the seeking arrow and combine that with branding smite to fight invisible enemies. I would talk to the DM first but assume, the seeking arrow always hits, so the branding smite can reveal the enemy. What do you think ?
When you mentioned forced movement and it dealing damage for forced movement per turn, not per round, I realised why this was so good. Until then, I didn't really see HOW MUCH DAMAGE this can really deal. If you have 6 players, and let's say half of them can inflict forced movement, then this deals 6d6 damage automatically and another 2d6 on turns where the target moves themself. This may only work until a successful strength athletics check is made, but there are many target with low strength
@@TreantmonksTemple You don't even need Hex. 5E D&D monsters are actually really crappy at Athletics checks. Hill Giants have a score of +5 and they're on the high end. There are some outliers like the Korred and the Fire Giant, but it's not out of the question for something like a 1st-level Barbarian to successfully outgrapple a Pit Fiend.
@@TreantmonksTemple I was wondering why you didn't mention Hex! Hex has incredible synergy with Fighter already, and actually being able to utilize the disadvantage on an ability check portion is just gravy on top. I was thinking the best time to pick up Hex would be instead of Piercer by taking Magic Initiate (Warlock), and you even get the advantage of picking up some excellent utility from cantrips like Minor Illusion and Mage Hand.
@@adonyx1 This is ... problematic ... with a build that has CHA 8. Probably better to let an actual warlock, or maybe an Aberrant Mind sorcerer, cast this spell for you.
oh, i miss the times of 3.5e, Arcane archer was a prestige class and had requirements a) be able to cast 1 lvl arcane spells, b) basic attack bonus, that is reached at ~ 4 lvl fighter or 11 lvl wizard, c) be an elf. most often ArAr were made of elf bards, as they meet requirements at about 6 lvl, but i liked to make them out of scorcerers. so you still are an 11 scorserer, but now you have +2 to attack and damage with a bow and 5 extra fireball arrows, which isuseful in loong fights without rest
I know folks keep suggesting "proficiency bonus shots" but I'm not necessarily into it. There's something unique about having a character who has to pick the right moment to use sparing resources. What if Ever-Ready Shot was just baseline, though? Two shots per short rest, but you get one back each time you roll initiative. That maintains the feel as distinct from Battlemaster, doesn't allow burst damage to get carried away, but it means that you'll never have an encounter where you don't feel like you can do something special. I think it might be more fun than PB Shots.
Beguiling arrow struck me as quite interesting, it's a charm effect where another creature is designated as the charmer, not yourself. Still very circumstantial, but as a backline archer this gives you a way to protect a spellcaster being targeted by an enemy. Still not very powerful, but I can see the situation coming up where it could be useful!
Take a 1 level daolock dip to get bludgeoning damage added and then pick up the crusher feat so that grasping arrow forced movement damage happens on your turns (including when you hit) too.
You definitely turned my mind around on this one, and in particular on how a combination of an arcane archer and a Warlock with hex and repelling blast could be incredible--particularly considering that repelling blast can be used on every shot, and hex can give them disadvantage on the athletics check to escape.
I could see a build like this, especially since Grasping Shot and Burst Shot don't allow saving throws, and thus the Arcane Archer doesn't really need the highest INT for a multiclass warlock Of course, if you go Warlock you're losing out on a lot of extra attacks ... but I guess the big thing there is whether the campaign is going to 20th level or ending at 10th or 11th. But of course, there are other (and likely more efficient) ways to use forced movement for a warlock (cough DAOLOCK cough), but this is certainly a nice gimmick. I wonder, though, if I was going to multiclass an Arcane Archer, whether going wizard for a few levels wouldn't be a better idea just so I could take the Shield spell. I grant you, it wouldn't do much for DPR (would likely even reduce it or delay it quite a bit), but I like having more than just a pair of metal-studded leather skivvies between me and the enemy. :-D
@@morganpetros9635 Oh I meant a team of two characters, a warlock and an arcane archer, but yes, the multiclass would be solid as well--although in that case I think I'd rather just stay fighter and grab Hex via Fey Touched.
@@ColinKillick Only problem with that is you only get to cast the spell once per day. That can be useful, but it's a very limited resource. However, taking just a few levels of wizard could alleviate that problem ... at the cost of your 4th attack and likely the 18th-level damage boosts. But it all depends on how long the campaign is going to last. If it's going to 20th, I would likely not multiclass this build at all. But if it was ending between 10th-14th, I'd likely take a few levels of wizard along with Fey Touched so I could not only have Hex in my arsenal, but (as I said) Shield as well. In fact, I think Hex from Fey Touched alone would likely add more DPR to the build than Piercer, and getting it even one more time daily would likely improve things dramatically. The only other multiclass I could see as decent (and again, only if the campaign was going to end before 15th level) would be taking only the two no-save Arcane Shots, dumping INT and multiclassing to ranger after 3rd level so I could use Hunter's Mark and Spike Growth. Hunter's Mark offers a mild damage bonus like Hex, and Spike Growth would add pretty dramatically to the forced-movement pain. ;-)
The extra 2d6 damage only applies once during the Warlock's turn no matter how many shots they get, btw. It's still good, the Hex can keep the effect active for longer, and an extra 2d6 damage per round (4d6 if the enemy still tries to move anyway) is pretty great when you're basically just getting it on top of what you'd normally be doing, though.
i played an arcane archer in a ToA game and it completely dominates early game, and even when casters hit level 5 and they catch up a bit. Even then, it still holds its weight. With sharpshooter and elven accuracy it makes you sooo strong. At level four you can give yourself advantage and do anywhere from 30 to 40 damage in a single round without even using your arcane shots. At level five you can effectively double that and can put out 60 to 80 damage in a single round with good rolls, which are in your favor with elven accuracy. Put in a bursting arrow in a mob of enemies or a more single target oriented shot like shadow shot you can do even more! I was one shotting creatures at low levels and trivialized a fight with two girallions that was supposed to be very challenging by dropping one myself in two rounds.
@@thomaskirk9380 all you need is one multiclass level into rogue for sneak attack. And then you basically always have advantage cause your allies are usually going to be next to enemies especially your martial fighters
The evil cackle that escaped me when I realised that Grasping Arrow is worded to apply per _turn_ and not per _round_ was perhaps unbecoming of a lady. Too excited to care.
This is a great video! Arcane Archer is much better than people realize. As an additional note, you can use banishing arrow as an escape for allies. It’s not the best option but if your barbarian is swarmed getting them out of the way for a turn can be great.
I can already hear the outraged howls of my party's barbarian now as someone shoots him in the backside so the wizard can fireball all the bugbears while he's out of the way. I wonder if you can voluntarily fail a save like that. I'd allow it, but with the presence now of at least one spell for which the description specifically tells you whether or not voluntarily failing the save is possible, I one must wonder ... ;-)
When we first did this was in a three party brawl and to help our sorcerer out our barbarian took got in the way of the most of the mele fighters for the other two groups. Our Druid was helping but needed to go attack the casters of one of the parties. The barbarian held out a round or two more but then was close to dropping while still surrounded. The Dm ruled that the bad guys didn’t know what banishing arrow did so they moved when he disappeared and he was fairly safe when he came back.
@@morganpetros9635 If I'm not mistaken, you cannot willingly fail a saving throw unless it specifically states it, but in the end its up to the DM. I typically allow players to willingly fail any Strength or Dexterity saving throw as well as many Intelligence, Charisma, or Wisdom saves, but Constitution is typically your body naturally fighting things off so my group has agreed those cannot be willingly failed outside of a spell or effect specifically stating you can. One side note to this is something Jeremy Crawford stated, that being incapacitated or dominated would effect this. I don't allow someone under either of these effects to willingly fail any saving throw unless the thing dominating them wishes for them to do so.
Honestly I think if they just updated the number of times per day usage to coincide with the newer classes and using the proficiency bonus to determine that, that would probably make a massive impact in the plaability of some of these older less powerful classes
I always like the idea of the arcane Archer but I ended up using a Eldritch Knight that used a bow instead. But I tell you what this actually looks like fun to play excellent breakdown of analysis by the way as usual
Sharpshooter really does help with range on a Hand Crossbow but I've been in fights where having even more range was very helpful. In a dungeon-heavy game I'd agree it's not a big deal, but in a wilderness, nautical, or even a city game, it can matter. Anyway, nice analysis, I really changed my mind about Arcane Archer from it. I think short rest type classes generally have a problem with not getting enough power refreshes given most "work days"... this is true for the Monk, Warlock, and often the Fighter.
Feels like Arcane Archer 5 levels + Swords Bard levels would be pretty solid? If you hit with an attack use your Grasping shot, for 2d6 poison + 2d6 Slashing per 1ft it moves on each turn. On the same hit expend a bardic inspiration for a mobile blade flourish. Mobile blade flourish adds a d8 of damage, and allows you to move the creature 5ft + the D8 rolled. That should trigger the slashing damage from grasping arrow, and at minimum the creature takes 12d6 damage(from 6ft of movement) and a maximum of 26d6 (13ft movement). you could pick up hex some where to add some damage and give the creature disadvantage on the strength check to break out. Of if you level up in bard take greater invisibility and give yourself advantage on attacks. Fun multi class!
Grasping Arrow is definitely under-valued. I was skeptical until an Arcane Archer joined one of my games and I actually read the effect. We admittedly didn't have many forced movement options (though the Bard occasionally tore it up with Dissonant Whispers) but even then it was an immensely valuable tool. In the action economy, effects that require a turn in order to ATTEMPT to shake an effect tend to be amazing. Similarly, I think Wrathful Smite tends to be under-valued. I made a grappling-focused Paladin once that would fear a creature and then make sure it couldn't escape. It was at perma-disadvantage unless it ate its action to attempt a Wisdom CHECK (not a saving throw) to stop being scared. And if it managed, Wrathful Smite is only a 1st level slot. Obviously, unlike Wrathful, Grasping doesn't allow a saving throw at the start, but fear is a good debuff and if it sticks it sticks hard. Bonus points if you're Conquest, which I actually wasn't. Footnote: Wrathful is also concentration, which Grasping is not. Not that I think the two should be compared straight across, because they're incredibly different. It's just that effects of this sort are VERY RARE and I think Wrathful should have more attention than it gets. Not all the attention in the world, mind, but more than it gets.
I played in a game that averaged 6 combats no Short Rests. We had a GM who was not a fan of Warlocks and we had one, so he basically punished the Party because he let one in.
I'd about say Seeking Arrow can be good, but likely only against certain targets. Namely those that like to hide during combat, mages casting Invisibility for instance, or a Drow shrouded in the Darkness spell. An invisible or unseen opponent imposes disadvantage on attacks against, assuming they are even attacking the space the opponent is even in. Seeking Arrow, not only ignores cover, but also any form of concealment, and upon taking damage (even if halved and assuming there hiding via concentration spell) they have to make a concentration save as well as the Dex Save. On a failed Dex save, you know where the hiding creature is and thus, point it out to your party as you pepper that space with your Extra Attacks and possible Action Surge if needed.
Arcane archer could have unlocked full access to all arrow options at level 3 and almost nothing would happen balance wise, but all players would probably feel better about the subclass. Even other party members. I think the ability score used for DC should be able to be chosen between intelligence and wisdom.
A party with a blaster warlock and an Arcane archer can really make Grasping arrow scary. Warlock casts hex (strength) and you are going to have reliable damage over multiple turns. What choice do you the DM make? Use the turn to roll strength (athletics) at disadvantage or move and take 2d6 damage. What is the better choice? This is really powerful combo with a single big bad enemy with room for the party to move as you can stay at range and if this is a melee enemy it is at a real disadvantage given its slowed movement and a warlock will likely have repelling blast if not at level 2 at least by level 5 so it is never going to catch anyone in the party that doesn't want to be caught and that assumes limited forced movement which isn't hard to gain in game. This can take a really tough fight and make it a cake walk and it does so with two "weaker" class/subclass builds. While you can get hex as an arcane archer with cross classing and or feats it is important to note that characters in a party should work together and if you have a warlock already in the party don't waste a feat or level to get hex yourself. Also getting hex for your arcane archer is less effective a separate character who is a warlock can move on a separate turn and thus reliably add 2d6 extra damage on its turn that a single arcane archer that used a level or feat to gain hex. Another factor is that if you plan well with the boss fight you could have more than one use of grasping arrow for the fight so if the boss gets lucky you can do it again. I am not sure if I would swap out hex in a party that had an arcane archer with grasping arrow. Yes hex is meh at higher levels but casting hex for a boss fight and you know your arcane archer has charges for their arcane shots available means you are creating a major debuff on an enemy that the party can exploit for multiple dice of damage with no saves over multiple turns/rounds. Anytime the DM moves instead of trying to remove the effect at disadvantage means you and the arcane archer are the ones responsible for that damage. Anytime the DM fails the roll there is a significant change that fail was because of your hex which means you and the archer are the reason the boss wasted its turn. yeah hex normally sucks and you want to swap it out at higher levels but in this party make up it becomes a keeper "situational" spell and as you level up you can "exploit" hex durations by casting before a short rest and have it up with all your spell slots. An elf with a long rest of 4 hours or warforged with a long rest at 6 hours can take a long rest and then when the party is at hour 7 of their long rest cast the hex spell and take a short rest. This gives you the hex up for hours and all your spells slots are usable and you are not inconveniencing the rest of the party. This scales with level too, sort of, as the duration increases. Sure you will cast other concentration spells and loose the hex spell but it is there at the start of the day for some extra damage for some fights and when you really need to exploit grasping arrow you have a reason to keep hex as a situational spell. Which isn't that bad as warlocks are nothing but situational spell casters. This is why evaluating spells and subclasses isn't as easy as a simple numbers crunch, sure hard cold numbers are vital for comparisons but mediocre abilities on their own can become S tier abilities when used in combo with other class features or spells. Teamwork can make a meh build far better than number suggest in isolation.
The thing i hate about this sub is not that its not powerful, its that you get so few options and uses that for the majority of the time if feels like you dont even have a subclass. Honestly there should have been a constantly usable archery based feature. Something like changing damage type or an pseudo huntersmark type feature where hitting a guy plants a mark that can do something on a bonus action.
grasping arrow So on a failed save the target gets wrapped in thorny vines and their movement speed is reduced by 10 ft and they take 2d6 slashing DMG per FOOT that they move and that can result in some crazy DMG at lvl 3 and at 18th lvl the DMG increases to 4d6. a little over 9k DMG if a great wyrm red dragon gets entangled and moves is full 190 ft fly speed and dash meaning you do 190*2*4=1520d6 slashing dmg
I tried pointing out that grasping arrow was the best arrow, but a big name(I won't call them out)youtuber, kept saying Banashing arrow was better. I couldn't convince them otherwise." The creature is gone for a round" but so what? your allies can't attack any enemy that isn't there, and they get a save and can have nothing happen, and grasping has no save.. Burtsing arrow is a good pick for low level encounter with weak enemies , but quickly loses its alure as your monsters get much stronger. They should make your uses your proficiency modifier, or maybe that +1. Start with 3 and have 4 at 5th as your proficiency bonus goes up it goes up too. A question we never got an official answer to is: If an Arcane archer takes sharpshooter and uses the -5 and misses, then uses curving arrow to target another monster, does the curved shot have to be -5 , OR can you choose to make it a regular shot before you roll your next hit? My dm said it made it too strong , if you can choose to make it a regular hit since your odds of hitting then is much better.(and I know in this case, the dm's world, the dm's rule) but I was wanting an "official" answer for it in general
Never trust tier rankings. People rank them based on their personal play style. Someone with a different play style can take an "F tier" sub class and wipe the floor with a person playing an "S tier" People like you, who treat TTRPs like MMOs, and look for ways to optimize instead of focusing on the CHARACTER aspect of a character are part of why people end up posting D&D horror stories :(
the difference between the usefulness of grasping arrow and all the other ones is just shocking to me, and would be a no-brainer if i were to create an arcane archer. no initial save required, and if the creature uses it's ACTION to remove the effect, it still has to beat the DC
Also, forced movement is a hugely underrated tactic and I'm surprised at how many players don't take more advantage of it. It's so underrated that 4E D&D literally rewrote most of its powers so that Murder Pinball wouldn't be as dominating. Graviturgists get to be a top-tier wizard just from their level 6 feature, turning spells like Eldritch Blast (if they can swing the stats), Magnify Gravity, Jim's Magic Missile, Scorching Ray, and even Magic Stone (with the help of Crusher) into easy 'you don't get to attack this round, you poor melee-dependent peasant'.
Come to think, you could probably do a whole video on the evil and hilarious things you can do with reliably access to Forced Movement. It's really hard to get, especially if we're talking about 10-foot forced movement -- where the real magic happens -- but it's oh-so-worth it. A Graviturgist and a Sorlock can keep entire enemy bruiser teams from taking a meaningful turn in T2, without even relying on stuff that requires saves.
In the D&D community’s defense, forced movement was a lot less common when this subclass was printed. If you don’t assume the party has easy access to forced movement then Grasping Arrow doesn’t look nearly as powerful.
ealry in the video he says that arcane archers get an increase of shots at 15th level this is false as they never do recieve this upgrade, what they recieve at level 15 is the ability to generate an arcane shot at the begining of combat if they didnt already have one, nothing else.
I think the simple solution to subclass is simply allow the Arcane shot to be used once per round, then at level 15 twice per round. Done. Maybe make the Save be 8 plus PB +STR Mod.
Super late, but I found a build for Arcane Archer after my character died last weekend; the core concept is battlesmith artificer and arcane archer to scale int and fighter save DC but i made some changes for the sake of cool flavor. Variant Human; take War Caster for feat. Artificer for levels 1 to 3; take Battle Smith so you can attack off of Intelligence and Repeating Shot infusion onto Longbow (no more ammo) Fighter for levels 4 to 9; pick up arcane archer and Magic Initiate (Wizard) for two damaging cantrips and a 1st level at Fighter 4; and Fighter 6 can be a personal choice Now, your firebolt and Ray of Frost essentially only require verbal components and can be fired from your bow :) plus you get some nice utility spells like Faerie Fire and Grease Seemed like a bit fun and fitting flavor - considering magic archer? Edit; Pretty sure, this is by no means is this "optimal" though lol
Really think the Arcane Shot uses should be Proficiency Bonus times per day, with half recovering on a Short Rest. That would make them a lot more useful and scaling better in comparison with spell caster classes.
Personally have enjoyed taking Fey Touched feat to grab my Arcane Archer, not only Misty Step but, Hex. The latter spell alows you to use a bonus action to give the target disadvantage on the Grasping Arrow Strength ability check (+1d6 dmg), prior to you taking the attack action.
Ohhhhh that's dirty, I like your style.
I like it a lot, since you feel like a Ranger anyways, so you get an (for this occasion) improved Hunter's Mark. I thought about taking the Telekinetic feat for triggering the Grasping Arrow slashing damage. While your DC won't be amazing, it's a free use of the bonus action you lose by not being able to go Crossbow Expert and you get a Wisdom increase and invisible Mage Hand on top, which is never bad.
Crusher and 1 level dip daolock. Pick up hex, get a free movement when you hit, some more extra damage....
@@buraeen5735 I guess that's better, but it is also a higher investment with a lvl AND a feat which you will get later through taking that warlock level. The question is: Does the extra damage from the Dao feat count as being part of the attack itself in RAW?
@@0ff5PR1NG I agree it is harder to get to. I'm assuming it works RAW, but not entirely sure. Thought I remembered TM using it for spike growth before which seems the same to me, but I didn't do any checking to make sure.
Big brain time: When you miss, use Curving Shot to turn the arrow back at yourself, then use the Monk Reflect Projectiles to throw it again as a reaction
That is honestly a really interesting idea
If it only didn't cost a bonus action, a reaction, a ki point and the possibility of not reducing all damage at all and just damage yourself I think it could be a good idea
LOL @@facundoperez2766
But consider: funny
@@AlexMunz-bg3bc I like the way you think
1:40
Opinions like this are why I hate Hand Crossbows (or rather bonus action attack part of Crossbow Expert). When anyone thinks of a ranged build, Hand Crossbow is assumed automatically. Any other option is just unviable for them. And the worst is, in most cases they're right.
Glad you've decided to defend the proud name of Longbow here.
I mean, I think you have to take a hard look at what you consider "viable" is. A baseline fighter without subclass is viable in most campaigns. The worst monk subclass is still viable in 95% of most campaigns. I like to optimize the characters I make, but I like starting or having an idea rather than just a weapon and a feat.
I loathe the hand crossbow, not least because it didn't even exist until the late 70s and has no place in a medieval fantasy game. But I also have no interest in a "ranged" weapon with an effective range of 30 feet ... and unlike the sling (I used to hit tin cans with a sling at 40 or so yards back when I was a teenager-and I was no expert marksman), the range on the hand crossbow is fairly accurate in the game.
Hand crossbows should be 1d4 damage like in previous editions. Especially if they basically net you the bonus action attack that pole arm master gives. Would they still be good? Yes, would more players think hard on a two die drop on damage. I think so.
@@jamesbolt1003 Nah, Hand Crossbows themselves are fine. What needs nerf is the bonus action attack. I personally would remove it completely, turning Crossbow Expert into a half-feat almost exactly like Gunner. I get that people may like the flavor of rapidly firing hand crossbows, but I don't see how you can nerf it while keeping the flavor.
@@antongrigoryev6381 but it's shooting a tiny bolt from a toy gun looking crossbow. A thrown dagger is only 1d4. How does this toy earn 1d6? The point on it looks to be the size of a caltrop.
I’ve said it before and i’ll likely say it again, i never get tired of being mentioned in Chris’ videos. This is content i am more than happy to support.
I feel like it's worth noting that Shadow Arrow, if they fail the save, sets you up to have advantage for the rest of your attacks this turn. A great time to Action Surge and lay down some Sharpshooter hits, especially if you got Elven Accuracy.
It's also beneficial for everyone else on your team. You're giving advantage to other ranged combatants like the rogues, rangers, and spellcasters using attack roll spells and cantrips. It's also going to benefit e.g. the Paladin who took polearm master and sentinel to try and tank for the party, as he can just stand 10' away and poke the bad guy with advantage for free.
Would an Eladrin make a good choice for an elven subrace, if you want Elven Accuracy?
@@alanschaub147 yeah, I think so. That teleport will also help you get in position, and get away if they get in melee. Plus, since Arcane Archer can't use Crossbow Expert, you don't have as much competition for your bonus action
I feel like a Samurai does the Sharpshooter + Elven Accuracy thing better. No saves involved and if you drop your target before running out of attacks (which could happen while action surging) you still have advantage against any other targets you switch to since it's a buff on you, not a debuff on them.
@@yhnujmik987 You're right that it does that better, so Arcane Archer would be more about versatility than specialization
Grasping Arrow also works on literally everything. Immune to grappled condition? This isn't the grappled condition. Incorporeal? Doesn't matter. It still works. Throw in enemies with a legendary action that involves moving? Sure you can use that... But you eat damage for it.
I'd save this one for big, scary enemies with a lot of health. Most fights go 2-3 rounds, so it would hardly affect things unless you're dealing with a damage sponge.
Nonstandard spells and effects that dodge traditional immunities are invaluable late-game. Which ironically makes game effects that are kind of pants like Confusion suddenly valuable to have as a backup.
Honestly, the number of special shots you could take should've been based on the character's PB bonus instead of having the 2 pact slot dilemma again.
That makes sense. Talk to a DM and see if they would allow this in a Homebrew campaign
The AA really only needs one fix, scaling uses as prof bonus instead of a flat 2. Although some of the weaker shots could use a damage increase before level 18; maybe at level 11?
Yeah, 1d8 at 11th level and another 1d8 at 18th sounds like it would even out the progression, just like either using Proficiency Bonus or, as Cris suggests, adding a shot at 7th, 11th and 15th or 18th would even out progression as well. But if a DM were to add shots using either of these methods, I'd suggest dumping Ever-Ready Shot, as these features really are quite powerful.
But the thing is, the Arcane Archer doesn't really need to be more *powerful.* It just needs to even out its progression a bit. ;-)
And maybe let it's features work with all ranged/thrown weapons
@@morganpetros9635 Well I was think of d6s not d8s. Evening out the power progression was exactly my point. Instead of doubling the bonus damage at 18, gradually increase it by one die until doubled at 18. Tracking and piecing shots might get an extra d6 that way, but they are the weakest options anyways.
@@devildham Nah, I think that makes crossbow expert too powerful.
I would disagree with regards to increasing available shots, because I see the AA more like a 1/3 warlock, looking at their ranged shots equating to eldritch blast and the arcane shots like their pact slots. This would then lead to damage increases at lvl 10 and 15.
While Peircing arrow is quite weak, it's worth noting that if your DM gives you specialized magic arrows, such as an arrow of slaying. Piercing arrow allows you to apply their effects to multiple creatures.
Sometimes, I feel like I'm the only person that just hates the hand crossbow. I wish it didn't exist, except maybe as a 1-2 dmg ranged poison delivery system ( with no static modifiers). My suspension of disbelief isn't strong enough to accept it being the super weapon 5e has made it.
That's fair, that tiny little weapon is somehow better to use than a longbow.
But I suppose you could flavour it to be a shortbow instead, and keep the benefits of the hand crossbow
My DM has banned the things entirely. But then he, like myself is a medieval longbow archer, and both of us have shot hand crossbows. We were not impressed to say the least. Someone trying to claim a piddly little toy crossbow could have anything close to the impact of a 160+ lb at 36 draw weight War Bow has no idea what they are talking about. Hell a medieval longbow had serious difficulty penetrating even the weak points in full plate historically, the guy wearing that armour is not even going to notice the bolt from a hand crossbow. Even worse, a hand crossbow is no faster to cock and fire than a big war bow.
So no, you are not the only person who hates the things, and I hate even more that min maxers have made it the weapon of choice for so many archer builds in AD&D.....
Certainly not the only one. It's one of the biggest Suspension of Disbelief plinkers in the game--more than Fireball, honestly.
If going for a CBE build, I think it makes a tonne of sense to do what im hulki suggests and calling it a Short Bow, but using the Hand Crossbow stats and range and such. If it's all make believe (it is) who's to say it has to look like a Hand Crossbow? So long as someone doesn't do things which require a bow and not a hand crossbow, so long as there's no actual rules advantage and just gets less silly, should be fine.
Completely agree. I don’t think I have ever considered giving any of my characters a crossbow. Even though CBE is a great feat, actual bows just look cooler.
I honestly think that 1-2 dmg is a bit of an overkill as a nerf, as you're basically saying a mechanically drawn bolt is the equivalent delivery system compared to someone's lungs. (A Blowgun already deals 1 + Dex Mod in damage.)
Though I do agree that the damage should be reduced a bit, turning that d6 into a d4. As you stated, the Hand Crossbow is more intended to deliver poisons rather than raw damage. So I think a d4 fits well into its constructed (and expensive, 75gp) nature, while not encroaching on other superior (and cheaper) ranged options.
In addition, the Range on the Hand Crossbow should be reduced from 30/120 to 20/80. (Watching a few videos of them, the Hand Crossbow has a dubious accuracy at 30ft and has issues penetrating at 100+ feet.)
The Hand Crossbow definitely shouldn't be a high pick for a Fighter or Ranger, but even with these changes, the Hand Crossbow would and should still feel at home in the hands of the Rogue.
If these reductions still arent enough, you're honestly better off either banning or regulating what weapons the Sharpshooter Feat allows +10 damage bonus applies to or to the Crossbow Expert Feat.
An important thing to remember about longbow vs handcrossbow is range. Sure, in a dungeon crawl it may not matter much, but bonus action attack or not, if you're getting two or more rounds of free attacks before the enemy can even begin to threaten you because you're several hundred feet away, in those situations longbow easily outperforms handcrossbow.
The battle master is standing 400' away doing maneuvers
"8 encounters a day"
"Nah man, 5 encounters a day"
Me, a DM who sometimes runs an entire session without having any combat *laughs nervously*
Imo, 8 or 5 encounters a day is a fighting game, not a roleplaying game.
You're right.
I usualy do only 2 or 3.. deadlyer and fewer combats..
Both are very reasonable. My games - both the ones I DM and the ones I play in - tend to have 0 combat on most days, or maybe one unusual one (usually meaning there were a bunch of ways to handle a thing and the players woke up and chose violence). But then you hit your 'dungeon crawl' days where they're in enemy territory and then a lot of encounters can certainly make sense.
Wargamers are a minority. MOST people are running combats caused by narrative. They don't just bash on enemies all day. It's boring.
i for sure run the game with 3 to 4 encounters in a busy day. 1 on a rest day. I sometimes get to 6 when the “pressure is on” and the “clock is ticking.” You should see those PCs sweat, but they are selling themselves short.
I think a telekinetic arcane archer could be good. Gives you something to do with your BA if all your sharpshooter shots hit. Plus it gives an intelligence boost
I like this, kind of seems like a natural extension of their other abilities like redirecting arrows and such
Dunno. It only has a range of 30 feet. If I'm a ranged character, I probably would want to take full advantage of the range and stay as far as I can from the enemies. Doubly so considering that we don't have CE and can't shoot if we get into melee, in which case we'll need to spend a whole turn to disengage if enemies get to us.
@@antongrigoryev6381 Your still a fighter with a d10 hit die, and the monsters speed will be reduced by 10 feet automatically and you can push it 5 feet away. Even assuming your the only one with forced movement it is still a strong move.
Fey Touched with Hex works well as well, give them disadvantage on their athletic checks and more damage per shot? Yes please
@@MarcLucksch Oh, *YES.* This is a great way to get Hex without dipping into warlock and having to improve your CHA on a build that's already pretty MAD. After all, you can improve your INT and use that for the spell's DC instead of Charisma. Only problem is, you could only cast it once per long rest unless you multiclassed into a spellcaster class, but then you could go Wizard ... and I love the Shield spell for lightly armored builds ... ;-)
I love the concept of an arcane archer! I want to make it work well, I considered multiclassing with arcane trickster, 2 attacks, consistent damage, and more spells and utility.
Battlesmith artificer to attack with int and get the repeating shot infusion for your longbow!
@@adamkaris ooooh didnt think about the artificer touch! I like that!
Battlesmith is a reasonable way to go; I also considered dipping into it on my Hexbow. It wouldn’t have been until really high levels, though; too much good Hexblade stuff before then.
@@adamkaris Battlesmith also gives you a pet that can take the Help action, giving you Advantage on one attack ... which helps offset the -5 you're going to take using Sharpshooter. Or possibly two if you choose to learn to build a homunculus.
@@adamkaris I think battlesmith works best the other way around, dipping into arcane archer rather than an arcane archer dipping into battlesmith.
Because you are building with Int as your primary stat, you would want battlesmith as soon as possible so you start there. But if after level 3 you go arcane archer, you're not getting extra attack until level 8, and that's rough.
So arcane archer dipping into battlesmith is only good if you build with int as your primary stat and start close to level 8.
Yeah, not getting more uses of the special shots at 7 and 10 does suck. You are getting diminishing returns on your arcane shot choices, because (unlike spells) you don’t get access to new options. Battlemaster has that problem too, technically, but has more maneuvers to choose from and gets more uses of the maneuvers earlier.
Still, I agree that the arcane archer is not bad overall, and is underrated. Good video, as usual.
I'm especially happy with this because, when I'm building an actual archer, I generally don't like the flavor of a crossbow.
Solution: reflavor your hand crossbow as a shortbow with shittier range than normal
@@bodbyss It is absolutely impossible for me to image a shortbow that can be fired one handed. Of course, I can imagine firing a crossbow one handed, but my mind stops when I try to explain how a crossbow can be reloaded one handed.
After some brainstorming, I can imagine how to fire a shortbow one-handed. you have a belt around your torso, you have a hook on that belt to hold the bowstring next to the arrow . You move your arm close to your body and catch the arrow and the string. then you push the bow out. You have a thumb ring that attaches near the head of the arrow. with the arrow nocked, you can unhook, aim the bow, and release the arrow with a flick of the thumb. But this is a stunt, not a practical way to gain an extra attack with your off-hand every six seconds. But I still have no idea how to reload a crossbow one-handed.
@@shishkabobby RAW you need to have a free hand to load a bolt into the hand crossbow (not cause of loading, but because of ammunition) so you can't fire a hand crossbow more than once if you don't have a free hand.
So just use the shortbow normally and have your other hand empty.
Piercer feat plus heavy crossbow
I just did some math for Fighters, so I thought I'd share. People often say the hand crossbow with crossbow expert is the best combination at low levels, but I just found some love for the heavy crossbow and piercer feat. With custom lineage you start with an 18 dex, instead of a 16 or 17. I'm not going to show all calculations, but the average damage for a regular hit with a d10 and piercer is 6.75 instead of the average 5.5. This leaves the hand crossbow with a hefty 13 average damage to 10.75 average damage lead on regular hits. This is where most people stop doing their homework, so I will continue with some damage per round calculations for you.
Hand Crossbow Expert Heavy Crossbow Piercer
Average Regular Damage 13 10.75
Average Critical Damage 20 22.75
To Hit AC 13 average damage 9.45 8.66
Crossbow Expert still wins right. 9.45 vs 8.66 is better. Let's dig a little deeper and remember a couple things. The Heavy Crossbow Piercer has one better AC, initiative, dexterity saves and skill checks, and doesn't use up your bonus action. So what happens in a 4 round fight when you have to start using your resources. I'll look at first and second/third levels.
4 round fight using second 8.27 8.66
wind
4 round fight using second 9.45 10.25
wind and action surge
My conclusion is that the hand crossbow expert is better in generic fights, but when it hits the fan, the Heavy Crossbow Piercer pulls in the lead. Now, depending on your dm's style, the 0 foot range of the hand crossbow expert might be better than the 100 foot short range of the heavy crossbow. A fighter can always pull out a rapier and shield at 0 feet, while still being able to utilize the benefits of the piercer feat. Between 30 and 100 feet, there is no contest as the heavy crossbow won't be at disadvantage.
I hope you found this interesting,
Chris
I'm always impressed with your analysis. I finally joined your Patreon. Thank you for making me a more fun player at the table and a better dungeon master.
Idk why exactly but this post just made me want to go to his Patreon too haha
Off topic, but Prestidigitation is amazing, especially for evil or anti-establishment characters. Nothing cleans up a crime scene like Prestidigitation!
I played a necromancer that used prestidigitation to clean up after his skeleton minions murdering a poor drunk dude. Naturally the body did not go to waste and my army increased that night...
An old ninja assasin character of mine always kept a wand of this cantrip for pretty much that purpose.
@@napoleontheclown Why would you murder a poor drunk dude?!?
@@kibbo86 I didn't murder him. My skeletons murdered him. They were told to kill any intruders in my room at the inn and the DM concluded a drunk guy wandering in and getting shanked would be funny. She was correct.
@@kibbo86 it's what my character would do
The combo Arcane Archer with Grasping Arrow + a Warlock with Hex and repulsive blast, cursing Strength checks, has really too many synergies! It can really be devastating - likely is just a win.
Just take fey touched
I think its bad on its own, as a 3 level fighter splash it might actually not be terrible because it gets very little meaningful from levels 4+ compared to other fighters. So take 3 levels of it (maybe 4 for the ASI) then take an archery based ranger for the rest of your career. You'll only have 2 arcane shot options, but you can pick the 2 most iconic to your character concept.
A disgusting combination for an Arcane Archer/Ranger would be to take the archery style with ranger, and the martial adept style with fighter, take the intimidating battlemaster maneuver (frightened condition) and when you use the Grasping Arrow ALSO apply the frightened condition, which disadvantages ability checks. Now if they want to remove the vines its not just an athletics check its a disadvantaged athletics check.
I think it's completely the opposite. It's so niche if you are going to do it you might as well solo class so you get the benefits of being a full fight like that third extra attack. Going ranger you will be delaying extra attack and require intel and Wis.
thing is, fighters also peak in power from 4 to 6 because of feats
You don't get more shots but you get two feats if you want, and than you can move to another class if you desire. If you're starting fighter there is no sense in not going straight to 5 for extra attack anyway so it's easy to imagine another lvl for a feat.
I like the combo you mentioned, and tbh this subclass pairs well with most rangers (gloomstalker, fey wanderer and swarmkeeper notably)
@@Booklat1 if you are playing a martial, you should choose which you want to focus on imho. otherwise you are having wasted features in duplicated extra attack. For the treantmonk testcase sort of campaign, I would start 1 level in fighter - I like con save and multiclassing into ranger gives you a skill, 5 into ranger, then my last 2-3 levels into fighter before going back to ranger. Missing out action surge until later sucks, but you have to choose whether you want consistent or bursty damage and the consistent extra attack is probably better than 1 action surge. For bonus action, I might suggest you actually go beastmaster ranger so you get a personal "tank" and a way to weaponize your bonus action without having to go crossbow expert.
I like it the other way around. A two, three, or four level dip in Ranger would give you both the Archery fighting style plus Defense or Superior Technique without using a feat, not to mention a limited suite of first level spells. You might as well concentrate on one of those if you're focused primarily on being a Fighter and they could feel like additional arcane options beyond your two arrows. 17 levels of Arcane Archer with 3 levels of Monster Slayer added in the mid game is basically Hawkeye.
Also if you're trying to focus on Grasping Arrow, Rangers can also learn Spike Growth. Difficult terrain minus ten feet of movement could be crippling, and is a natural fit for a party planning on abusing forced movement.
Grasping arrow + hex (str penalty)+ eldrichblast /(repeling blast) looks really nice. Arcane archer / warlock team combo can be awesome.
And genie warlock with crusher can force movement on a hit.
@@BittyVids Oh yeah, and have spike growth for more damage instead of hex.
Hex is there to give disadvantage on the Athletics check to escape the grasping arrow
One thing that feels kinda bad about Arcane Archer: you get two magic shots per short rest. Contrast an Eldritch Knight or Bladesinger, who gets a magical sword attack every round with cantrips like Booming Blade and Green Flame Blade, plus various spells to use a few times per day for big control effects. If the Arcane Archer had a few cantrip-level options you could use at will (maybe even at the cost of multiple attacks) or minor augments to attacks (like Eldritch Blast invocations, or Way of the Open Hand monk effects), it'd help the class overall feel more special. Even if the peaks of the Arcane Archer are worthwhile, it's important to do cool things in the valleys as well, so that you actually feel *ARCANE*.
yea it really sucks. What I, and other DMs in my group, have done is moved it to prof/day for magic shot. Still not a ton of uses but it helps and doesnt let it get crazy out of control.
@@vaalnailo5789 I guess I mind less having few "spell slot" style abilities, but it'd be wonderful to have some Cantrip-style ones, too.
Warlocks spend most of their career with 2 spell slots. But they've got invocations and Eldritch Blast to feel special. Many "magic martial" characters have Booming Blade and Green Flame. Arcane Archer having something like those without resource cost would be sweet, and you'd feel ARCANE all the time.
@@thebitterfig9903 Yea, even if it's something as small as an extra d4 (since fighters get so many attacks) of an elemental damage type per arrow or something like that. Just that lil bit extra can make it *feel* magical. Just that extra spice.
I would argue save DC is the biggest downside to the arcane archer, because if it scaled with dex like the battlemaster, I could see the justification for only 2 shots as opposed to maneuvers. For a ranged character, the arcane shots effects are better than maneuvers.
If you think about it? The AA subclass makes the Fighter MAD. It was probably on purpose to make it seem more balanced. But I took it and ran with it, multiclassed into Wizard.
@@snazzyfeathers that's a great idea, shield and absorb elements can balace less investment into constitution (or at least that's how i would do it because you are already far away from the enemies being a ranged character). Also teleportation effects
I think you'll get a lot more out of Ranger where the core attack and defence is the same for most levels of play. Action Surge may be quite powerful but the flexibility of spells AND ranger class features are just so much fun and can be powerful even if not as obviously powerful as Action Surge.
Shadow Arrow works on creatures that are immune to the Blinded condition.
I'd homebrew the addition, that, at the appropriate levels and in addition to the various Arcane Shots, the Arcane Archer gets Cordon of Arrows, Melf's Acid Arrow, Flame Arrows, Lightning Arrow, and Swift Quiver.
Lean into the "arcane" a little more.
Yea, I'm a big Grasping Shot is awesome preacher.
One thing I think is neat about Piercing Arrow is that it applies the damage to targets as if they were hit by the arrow. In our games, magic arrows with extra damage are common enough. So a +3 arrow, for example, does its bonus damage on all targets. Toss in something like Divine Favor and that applies too. It's still not close to beating Grasping Shot, but I think it gives it an edge on Bursting Arrow at my table.
I kinda wish Arcane Archer had another feature that scales of intelligence (maybe your arcane shot uses or a limited bonus to damage/attack roll equal to int). That way increasing your intelligence wouldn't feel like chore just to keep your shots effective.
this is what hurts me with AA too. I guess it's nice that AA doesn't need Int for, say, AC or something, but it still FEELS like you're losing out because of the MAD.
@@youtubeisawebsite7484 Say... an alternate AC of 10 + Dex + Int could be nice. At +2 int (an easy enough starting value) you've basically got free Studded Leather. Things just get better from there. Dumping Int would be no worse than status quo (you could still wear armor and function, unlike a Monk), but investing those many Fighter ASIs into stats rather than feats at a high level would eventually pay off.
Grasping arrow forces the target to make ability checks to try and remove the arrow? Pair that with the hex spell, and make the target even less likely to succeed on that strength check.
I think that an 8 encounter day with only one short rest is incredibly unlikely. It would balance it on a 5 encounter day with 2 short rests. That’s what usually happens in my experience.
I believe that's kind of the point. These numbers are intentionally the worst case scenario (or close to it) so pretty much everyone can depend on seeing these numbers, or better, at their table. Anything else and, since this is the internet, you end up with people saying a build doesn't work at a serious table, or that TM is fudging the numbers to make things look better then they would be in play.
...That's my take at least
@@mozartdminor It's the worst case scenario for a short rest class, sure, but we're talking about a lot more than short rest classes. If we're comparing classes and subclasses, as TM is, this will have the effect of boosting long rest classes above short rest classes, since the short rest classes suffer so much having only a single short rest for 8 encounters. So TM *is* fudging the numbers to make things better then they would be in play, just for the other classes.
I use 6 encounters and 2 short rests with 3 rounds per encounter. I think this one is the most fair to DPR, Long Rest and Short Rest classes. There is worse case scenarios for all of them, but none of them should ever be more than a 25% difference. And if there is, it'll be quickly visible.
At our table we rarely take 2 short rests, 1 or none is more likely because there’s almost always a time limit or chase component at our table - straight exploration, dungeon crawling is atypical.
Well, that's your experience.
For piercing arrow, it would depend on how your DM rules, but it specifically states that creatures take damage as if hit by an arrow. You might be able to convince your DM that RAI you could apply sharpshooter - especially if the alternative is you just always use grasping arrow.
Another reason to take piercing arrow over bursting arrow or others is that it lets you shoot through objects and, since it states creatures take damage as if hit by an arrow, you could reason that allows you to apply banishing arrow or grasping arrow. I don't know how a DM would adjudicate it, but you could pull off things like shooting a piercing arrow through a wall of force or a wall of stone and banishing the caster on the other side?
But you can only do 1 arcane shot per turn
@@adamkaris Good catch.
I agree, my immediate thought when I saw that wording was you declare you are making an attack with an arrow, declare it is a sharpshooter attack, and then apply your arcane shot to the arrow. Your dm may claim thats not the way the shot is intended to work which is totally fair but I think considering how limited the shots are used taking advantage of a feat in this situation is just as fair
Rai?
Another cool thing is, if you can get +3 arrows or even arrows with extra effects on them (e.g., Divine Favor), you can apply that extra damage across all enemies hit.
I don’t often remember to comment but thank you! Your videos are amazing!
I've paired the AA with a Necromancer Wizard. The idea was to send out the minions and then sit back and fire arrows.
one dirty necromancer combo if the party can pull it off, is one ally casting elemental bane [fire] onto an enemy, while the wizard casts flame arrows and distributes them to to the skeleton archers -and any other bow user in the mix. 12 arrows that once per creature's turn deals 4d6+Modifiers (+Prof for undead minions) and bypasses fire resistance on a hit. Granted it helps if the target is lower AC since skeletons only have +4 to hit]. And should the wizard-archer get a kill with their shot using one of these arrows they also regain 6hp lol!
As someone playing an Arcane Archer, thanks for defending the merits of the subclass. Yeah, there are more optimal damage dealers. I'm at lvl 6 right now and I started with grasping arrow and bursting arrow. Having an early AOE option at range has come in handy, and I'm glad I hadn't take banishing arrow that early. Also shadow arrow is(for most but not all enemies) a good way to give yourself advantage if you can get it to proc on your first shot because you can take advantage of being unseen for your shots and the shots of your allies until your next turn. But then again, the likelihood of passing the save until you get your INT higher is the challenge.
Take fey touched feat for hex
Prestidigitation does give the Arcane Archer access to the Eldritch Adept feat, though, which can provide some very tangible benefits to practically any build. I mean, Devil's Sight is an option, and it's *really* powerful.
That's... an interesting interaction I hadn't thought of before. Now I'm thinking that things like Armor of Shadows, Fiendish Vigor, and Mask of Many Faces might be worth a feat for certain character concepts, especially on a Fighter.
Having Prestidigitation doesn't give you the "Spellcasting" feature or the "Pact Magic" feature though, so it doesn't meet the prerequisite.
Arcane Archer grants the fighter the ability to cast a cantrip, but it doesn't give the fighter the Spellcasting feature. For Eldritch Adept to be a feat the fighter is eligible for, they have to have spell slots of some sort, like an Eldrirch Knight.
@@dylandugan76 you're right, i was looking at Elemental Adept's requirements. That's my bad x(
Thank you SO much for doing a longbow build. I’m all for optimizing, but for me it’s more about how do I make a character I want to build turn out viable. It doesn’t need to be the ultimate min-maxed build. So bring on the longbows, the Dex-based fighters, the dual welders and the fairy enchanter mind-control builds!
For Bursting Arrow, I would have also pointed out the friendly fire. You can't choose to avoid allies with this one - if they're within 10ft of the target, they get hurt automatically, no save.
I was also going to mention Friendly Fire. Bursts are very dangerous.
I had an arcane archer in a campaign, and he did absolutely insane amounts of damage. Especially at 11+, between 3 attacks/ round, action surge, and sharpshooter, he and the barbarian could often do 200-250 dmg to a foe in one round of combat. I literally had to balance encounters by giving bosses hordes of minions just so the archer couldn't burn the boss in 1 or 2 rounds.
Ah, but that only works if the Arcane Archer can't see the BBEG and the rest of the party doesn't have any kind of ranged forced movement to use on it ... ;-)
Everything you listed is great but not arcane archer exclusive. Any fighter can do it
@@ericmunnisjr4763 in fact, samurais and battlemasters can do it better than AAs
AA's gameplan: enemy fails Shadow Arrow save, Sharpshooter, death
Samurai Gameplan: fighting spirit, sharpshooter, Death
I saw some suggestions somewhere to tune up arcane archer without giving them more shot uses. The suggestions were to let you concentrate for one minute on the Beguiling, Banishing, Enfeebling, and Shadow arrows. This gives some more value for your shots without giving you more uses, kinda like how warlock can make their pact slots more impactful by choosing good concentration options.
*And* to learn a 1st level wizard/druid spell corresponding to the magic school of each magic shot option you know, which you can cast each once for free per Long Rest. So at 3rd level if you choose Banishing Arrow and Bursting Arrow, you could choose to learn Absorb Elements (Abjuration) and Faerie Fire (Evocation).
This gives you the option to choose some damaging spells if you want, or go for more utility. And potentially gives you a reason to choose one of the weaker arcane shots because you might want to learn a certain 1st level spell, like choosing Beguiling Arrow because you want to learn Silvery Barbs.
Back in the day when this was a prestige class I would roll them as a wizard mostly. The result was a wizard that relied on arrows for saving spell slots, but when a spell was needed I had them ready. Plenty of utility and solid ranged attacks.
Some would argue it was a less powerful wizard or an underperforming archer, but I felt pretty capable compared to the other party members.
42:30 note if you choose goblin then you can't use longbow effectively as the heavy property causes disadvantage for small creatures
Eh, shortbow is only 1 point average less per hit so it's not that significant. Fury of the small makes up for it, IMO.
@@napoleontheclown I agree, just an addition I thought I'd make
Could you do a bard summoner. Cause if you can get the arcane archer working. I know you can make this playstyle work
All you have to do is become underage to summon a bard
My first ever character was an Arcane Archer, I didn’t know much about the game though so I don’t know if it was good or bad. Nostalgia will always make me like it though. :)
15:00 Arcane shots are magical effects it even lists which school it's from.
Hang on, hand crossbows only have THIRTY FEET OF NORMAL RANGE? Why haven't I heard about this before, and why don't hand crossbow builds ever mention this? I guess sharpshooter lets you attack normally from 120 feet away but oof until you get sharpshooter at level 4 or 8 or whatever you're probably going to be within walking distance of an enemy if you actually try to use your hand crossbows to attack (you could be 45 feet away, then move to 30 feet away, shoot, and then back up to 45, but oof you are still really close to the enemy)
Ehh who cares, your still a fighter with a d10 hit dice. You can fight in melee with a hand crossbow if you wanted
The Hand Crossbow builds I see always take Variant Human or Custom Lineage with Sharpshooter, so it never matters because from level 1 they can fire at the max range without disadvantage. I think they should include a disclaimer if they don't take Sharpshooter at character creation, though I can't explicitly recall any.
Beguiling arrow can actually be really good. The charm effect helps pull enemies of your Frontline.
I love this, but I feel like comparing Arcane Archer's DPR to a straight Crossbow Expert + Sharpshooter build without adding the battlemaster maneuvers into the equation is disingenuous. You even mention in the level 3 comparison that they don't get anything at level 3 (since they don't get sharpshooter until 4), but they should be getting quite a bit, whether it's Precision Attack increasing the chances of landing a sharpshooter attack, or using any of the maneuvers that let's you deal additional damage after knowing that you hit the target. Just at level 3, they should be adding 14 damage per short rest to your calculator (4x 1d8 extra damage), which I imagine means they come out ahead at level 3 and probably for a while past that. I only mention this because at the beginning of your video you talk about how Arcane Archer can be stronger than BM. I love the arcane archer's theme and feel though, and I'm grateful you're giving it some love.
Is it just me or creatures hit by Grasping Arrow can only take the slashing dmg once per turn? It is written "the first time on each turn it moves" ...
You're correct. Once per turn, potentially many times each round.
I think Grasping Arrow definitely has a lot of potential, but personally I think if you're trying to build around it, you really need to coordinate with party members to make sure they're actually going to be able to synergize with it. The game I'm currently in, for example, no one has forced movement abilities. Seems like just getting 2d6/round (or 0 if they're already next to their target) in this case wouldn't scale all that well. Late game I'd think monsters would be fine just tanking it over spending their actions.
Good reason to take Telekinetic then, or multiclass to Swarmkeeper ranger or maybe Dao patron warlock and take Repelling Blast and Grasp of Hadar to go with your Eldritch Blast, Hex and Spike Growth spells. But yeah, getting other party members to cooperate and coordinate is definitely a good idea.
Unknowingly brought banishing arrow into a particular place where spells to get "out" of the dungeon such as teleportation, indeed to move to another plane would be redirected to a certain room. That was interesting and boosted it up a bit in power.
My arcane archer was really bored with his abilities as he levelled up, due to the limited uses of arcane shot. I gave him a feature at level 10 to be able to cast Lightning Arrow and Flame Arrow up to his INT modifier number of times per long rest, and he can change the damage type to Acid, Cold, Fire, Lightning, Poison or Thunder. At 15th level both spells upcast to 4th level, and at level 18 they upcast at to 5th level. He also gets at level 18 the ability to cast Swift Quiver once per long rest, and while concentrating on SQ enemies have disadvantage on saves against his Arcane Shots.
He's level 14 rn, expected to hit 15 by the end of Descent into Avernus and from there the campaign can go anywhere.
I think the most elegant solution to their problem is having their arcane shots per short rest be based on their Proficiency Bonus, replace their Everready Shot with a new once per short rest ability, maybe something like Heart-rending Arrow, which is a guaranteed hit/crit with an extra 2d6 damage, and then make some tweaks to other shots to make them worthy of use. It's sad when you have many options and only one of them stands out.
sharpshooter says: Before you make an attack with a ranged weapon that you are proficient with, you can choose to take a -5 penalty to the attack roll. If that attack hits, you add +10 to the attack's damage. piercing arrow says: On a failed save, a creature takes damage as if it were hit by the arrow, plus an extra 1d6 piercing damage. When you use this option, you don’t make an attack roll for the attack. On a successful save, a target takes half as much damage. Since i declare the penalty before the option to not make an attack roll, and after that a creature takes damage as if it were hit by the arrow, i would assume this piercing shot works with every single creature you hit with it.
If you want the poison damage from grasping arrow to be reliable,
Multiclass into Horizon Walker Ranger and use Planar Warrior to turn all that attack's damage to force,
plus the additional 1d8(2d8) force damage.
Also access to Ranger spells like Zephyr Strike, Hunter's Mark, and Absorb Elements.
Or use Favored Foe if it's the first turn of combat or if you aren't concentrating on something, since it can be applied, on hit.
So, what you're SAYING is, I should start with a Grasping Arrow, Action Surge to cast _Tasha's caustic brew_ (by feat or multiclass, doesn't matter too much), and laugh as they have to take two separate actions to end two separate instances of extra damage on them?
Bahaha that's evil
@@imhulki463 even better, I recently realized an 11th level artificer of any kind (with access to _find familiar_ ) can imbue a sling with _web_ and tie it to their familiar who uses it.
Meanwhile, you cast _Tasha's caustic brew,_ with higher level slots even, on enemies within the _web._
It's an action to break free of _web_ (which they could fail) and an action to get rid of the acid.
I'm playing an artificer right now, but I'm only 10th level. I'm really looking forward to level 11.
@@clarkside4493 BRUH
Too bad crusher has only +1 to con or str because that and a single level dip in Dao Lock would net you a Hex per short rest for str check disadvantage, no save forced movement (so a free 2D6 from grasping shot on your turn), PB damage added once per attack from bottled respite. So with that and hex that is 4D6+3 extra damage. If you dip Dao at lvl 7.
Also what would stop you from pulling out a finesse weapon on turn and hitting with booming blade when you can't disengage. You can stow the weapon for free next turn to go back to ranged stuff. This would push them away (Dao crusher) and they would have to take booming damage to close the gap.
Couldn't you stack Grasping Arrow with the Poisoner feat to get even more mileage out of it? Poisoner allows you to ignore poison resistance. Since the poison you can make gives the target disadvantage on Ability saving throws (assuming they fail it, of course - it IS a Con ST), it would be less likely for them to remove the effect.
this is probably the best use i've seen to poisoner along with using it for green dragonborn
I think the feat is underpowered either way tbh, for more than a few reasons even, but it is an interesting combo that I could see being used if you can spend the 50 gold. At least it gives the feat something cool to be used with.
Seeking arrow is a good counter for invisibility. It's a bit niche to encounter it. But when you do, you want something like seeking arrow. Something fighters won't normaly get (save maybe a 8th level eldritch knight picking up see invisible)
I picked it up right off the bat because my character is a bounty hunter and the flavor just felt too perfect.
I think you've underrated shadow arrow in a group with more ranged players. Just as grasping excels in a group with more forced movement, shadow is amazing in a ranged attack group. Yourself included. Shadow arrow is burst time, it's when you'd action surge and focus fire something down. It also excels against your ranged or spellcaster enemy. Let's not forget how many spells require sight to work, it doesn't merely impose disadvantage on spell attacks, it negates many spells entirely. For these reasons, I rate shadow arrow higher, 2nd to grasping, if a little bit group dependent. It is competing for 2nd place with banishing arrow imo.
I'd also emphasize telekinetic as a feat a bit more for this subclass, it fills out your turn, giving you a reliable bonus action, lets Force that movement each of your turns for grasping arrow damage, and as we're not taking crossbow expert, we're worried about things getting into mellee with us and imposing disadvantage on our ranged attacks. Telekinesis shove lets us push them off us first, before firing. All while being a half feat. Yes curved shot uses some bonus actions, coming online at 7, but that is late, and not always needed.
This has some of my favorite flavor for any subclass. My only issue with it is the hard limit to the arcane arrows, as it doesn't feel great to only have two uses of something and essentially be out of all of your subclass's unique features. Earlier this year I designed an entirely non-magic archer martial archetype, and the core of that design was the idea that you could expend a certain number of attacks to use different types of arrows. For one example, you could use two attacks to create and fire a tether arrow, and bind yourself or a creature or object in place. I've found that it works pretty well!
Arcane archer/ battle Smith artificer combo. Infuse your weapon and all attacks are made with intelligence bonus now. You get a steel defender which can take aggro in the frontlines while you sit in the back making solid damage between your attacks and bonus action attack from the defender. Use warding bond to make its health go farther as you split its damage with yourself. Take sharpshooter with variant human and archery fighting style and rush intelligence ASI. At level 5 you have +7 to hit easily and can start sharpshooting with more confidence. Battle field control, accuracy, damage output, crafting, utility spells....
lol, I literally just made an Arcane Archer for a new campaign that started yesterday. Except I homebrewed all of this to be non-magical and use boomerangs and bolas instead of bows.
Beguiling arrow with a glamour bard in the party is amazeballs.
I like the concept of a Battle Smith with a 3 Lvl dip into arcane archer.
fey touched with hex and the steel defender and you turn into a cyber ranger. after you hit with grasping arrow you can order your defender (with a bonus action) to grab and shove the target.
I envision him/her as a Tortle who was damaged by an explosion and replaced parts of the body/shell with tinkered gimmicks and the the Defender is a spider-like creature, that is wrapped around the shell.
I would also pick the seeking arrow and combine that with branding smite to fight invisible enemies. I would talk to the DM first but assume, the seeking arrow always hits, so the branding smite can reveal the enemy.
What do you think ?
When you mentioned forced movement and it dealing damage for forced movement per turn, not per round, I realised why this was so good. Until then, I didn't really see HOW MUCH DAMAGE this can really deal. If you have 6 players, and let's say half of them can inflict forced movement, then this deals 6d6 damage automatically and another 2d6 on turns where the target moves themself. This may only work until a successful strength athletics check is made, but there are many target with low strength
And I didn't mention the hex spell, but I should have. Add the hex spell we can give disadvantage on that check with no saving throw.
Party member warlock with repelling blast and disadvantage on strength checks from hex?
@@TreantmonksTemple You don't even need Hex. 5E D&D monsters are actually really crappy at Athletics checks. Hill Giants have a score of +5 and they're on the high end. There are some outliers like the Korred and the Fire Giant, but it's not out of the question for something like a 1st-level Barbarian to successfully outgrapple a Pit Fiend.
@@TreantmonksTemple I was wondering why you didn't mention Hex! Hex has incredible synergy with Fighter already, and actually being able to utilize the disadvantage on an ability check portion is just gravy on top. I was thinking the best time to pick up Hex would be instead of Piercer by taking Magic Initiate (Warlock), and you even get the advantage of picking up some excellent utility from cantrips like Minor Illusion and Mage Hand.
@@adonyx1 This is ... problematic ... with a build that has CHA 8. Probably better to let an actual warlock, or maybe an Aberrant Mind sorcerer, cast this spell for you.
oh, i miss the times of 3.5e, Arcane archer was a prestige class and had requirements a) be able to cast 1 lvl arcane spells, b) basic attack bonus, that is reached at ~ 4 lvl fighter or 11 lvl wizard, c) be an elf.
most often ArAr were made of elf bards, as they meet requirements at about 6 lvl, but i liked to make them out of scorcerers. so you still are an 11 scorserer, but now you have +2 to attack and damage with a bow and 5 extra fireball arrows, which isuseful in loong fights without rest
I know folks keep suggesting "proficiency bonus shots" but I'm not necessarily into it. There's something unique about having a character who has to pick the right moment to use sparing resources. What if Ever-Ready Shot was just baseline, though? Two shots per short rest, but you get one back each time you roll initiative. That maintains the feel as distinct from Battlemaster, doesn't allow burst damage to get carried away, but it means that you'll never have an encounter where you don't feel like you can do something special. I think it might be more fun than PB Shots.
Beguiling arrow struck me as quite interesting, it's a charm effect where another creature is designated as the charmer, not yourself. Still very circumstantial, but as a backline archer this gives you a way to protect a spellcaster being targeted by an enemy. Still not very powerful, but I can see the situation coming up where it could be useful!
Take a 1 level daolock dip to get bludgeoning damage added and then pick up the crusher feat so that grasping arrow forced movement damage happens on your turns (including when you hit) too.
and hex to give disadvantage against the strength check
You definitely turned my mind around on this one, and in particular on how a combination of an arcane archer and a Warlock with hex and repelling blast could be incredible--particularly considering that repelling blast can be used on every shot, and hex can give them disadvantage on the athletics check to escape.
I could see a build like this, especially since Grasping Shot and Burst Shot don't allow saving throws, and thus the Arcane Archer doesn't really need the highest INT for a multiclass warlock Of course, if you go Warlock you're losing out on a lot of extra attacks ... but I guess the big thing there is whether the campaign is going to 20th level or ending at 10th or 11th.
But of course, there are other (and likely more efficient) ways to use forced movement for a warlock (cough DAOLOCK cough), but this is certainly a nice gimmick. I wonder, though, if I was going to multiclass an Arcane Archer, whether going wizard for a few levels wouldn't be a better idea just so I could take the Shield spell. I grant you, it wouldn't do much for DPR (would likely even reduce it or delay it quite a bit), but I like having more than just a pair of metal-studded leather skivvies between me and the enemy. :-D
@@morganpetros9635 Oh I meant a team of two characters, a warlock and an arcane archer, but yes, the multiclass would be solid as well--although in that case I think I'd rather just stay fighter and grab Hex via Fey Touched.
@@ColinKillick Only problem with that is you only get to cast the spell once per day. That can be useful, but it's a very limited resource. However, taking just a few levels of wizard could alleviate that problem ... at the cost of your 4th attack and likely the 18th-level damage boosts. But it all depends on how long the campaign is going to last. If it's going to 20th, I would likely not multiclass this build at all. But if it was ending between 10th-14th, I'd likely take a few levels of wizard along with Fey Touched so I could not only have Hex in my arsenal, but (as I said) Shield as well. In fact, I think Hex from Fey Touched alone would likely add more DPR to the build than Piercer, and getting it even one more time daily would likely improve things dramatically. The only other multiclass I could see as decent (and again, only if the campaign was going to end before 15th level) would be taking only the two no-save Arcane Shots, dumping INT and multiclassing to ranger after 3rd level so I could use Hunter's Mark and Spike Growth. Hunter's Mark offers a mild damage bonus like Hex, and Spike Growth would add pretty dramatically to the forced-movement pain. ;-)
The extra 2d6 damage only applies once during the Warlock's turn no matter how many shots they get, btw.
It's still good, the Hex can keep the effect active for longer, and an extra 2d6 damage per round (4d6 if the enemy still tries to move anyway) is pretty great when you're basically just getting it on top of what you'd normally be doing, though.
i played an arcane archer in a ToA game and it completely dominates early game, and even when casters hit level 5 and they catch up a bit. Even then, it still holds its weight. With sharpshooter and elven accuracy it makes you sooo strong. At level four you can give yourself advantage and do anywhere from 30 to 40 damage in a single round without even using your arcane shots. At level five you can effectively double that and can put out 60 to 80 damage in a single round with good rolls, which are in your favor with elven accuracy. Put in a bursting arrow in a mob of enemies or a more single target oriented shot like shadow shot you can do even more! I was one shotting creatures at low levels and trivialized a fight with two girallions that was supposed to be very challenging by dropping one myself in two rounds.
How were you getting advantage? I love Elven accuracy if you can get advantage reliably.
@@thomaskirk9380 all you need is one multiclass level into rogue for sneak attack. And then you basically always have advantage cause your allies are usually going to be next to enemies especially your martial fighters
The evil cackle that escaped me when I realised that Grasping Arrow is worded to apply per _turn_ and not per _round_ was perhaps unbecoming of a lady. Too excited to care.
This is a great video! Arcane Archer is much better than people realize.
As an additional note, you can use banishing arrow as an escape for allies. It’s not the best option but if your barbarian is swarmed getting them out of the way for a turn can be great.
I can already hear the outraged howls of my party's barbarian now as someone shoots him in the backside so the wizard can fireball all the bugbears while he's out of the way. I wonder if you can voluntarily fail a save like that. I'd allow it, but with the presence now of at least one spell for which the description specifically tells you whether or not voluntarily failing the save is possible, I one must wonder ... ;-)
When we first did this was in a three party brawl and to help our sorcerer out our barbarian took got in the way of the most of the mele fighters for the other two groups. Our Druid was helping but needed to go attack the casters of one of the parties. The barbarian held out a round or two more but then was close to dropping while still surrounded.
The Dm ruled that the bad guys didn’t know what banishing arrow did so they moved when he disappeared and he was fairly safe when he came back.
@@morganpetros9635 If I'm not mistaken, you cannot willingly fail a saving throw unless it specifically states it, but in the end its up to the DM. I typically allow players to willingly fail any Strength or Dexterity saving throw as well as many Intelligence, Charisma, or Wisdom saves, but Constitution is typically your body naturally fighting things off so my group has agreed those cannot be willingly failed outside of a spell or effect specifically stating you can. One side note to this is something Jeremy Crawford stated, that being incapacitated or dominated would effect this. I don't allow someone under either of these effects to willingly fail any saving throw unless the thing dominating them wishes for them to do so.
I approve of the use of Vivien Reid art to demonstrate Arcane Archer ^_^
Honestly I think if they just updated the number of times per day usage to coincide with the newer classes and using the proficiency bonus to determine that, that would probably make a massive impact in the plaability of some of these older less powerful classes
I always like the idea of the arcane Archer but I ended up using a Eldritch Knight that used a bow instead.
But I tell you what this actually looks like fun to play excellent breakdown of analysis by the way as usual
Sharpshooter really does help with range on a Hand Crossbow but I've been in fights where having even more range was very helpful. In a dungeon-heavy game I'd agree it's not a big deal, but in a wilderness, nautical, or even a city game, it can matter.
Anyway, nice analysis, I really changed my mind about Arcane Archer from it. I think short rest type classes generally have a problem with not getting enough power refreshes given most "work days"... this is true for the Monk, Warlock, and often the Fighter.
Feels like Arcane Archer 5 levels + Swords Bard levels would be pretty solid? If you hit with an attack use your Grasping shot, for 2d6 poison + 2d6 Slashing per 1ft it moves on each turn. On the same hit expend a bardic inspiration for a mobile blade flourish. Mobile blade flourish adds a d8 of damage, and allows you to move the creature 5ft + the D8 rolled. That should trigger the slashing damage from grasping arrow, and at minimum the creature takes 12d6 damage(from 6ft of movement) and a maximum of 26d6 (13ft movement). you could pick up hex some where to add some damage and give the creature disadvantage on the strength check to break out. Of if you level up in bard take greater invisibility and give yourself advantage on attacks. Fun multi class!
Grasping Arrow is definitely under-valued. I was skeptical until an Arcane Archer joined one of my games and I actually read the effect. We admittedly didn't have many forced movement options (though the Bard occasionally tore it up with Dissonant Whispers) but even then it was an immensely valuable tool. In the action economy, effects that require a turn in order to ATTEMPT to shake an effect tend to be amazing.
Similarly, I think Wrathful Smite tends to be under-valued. I made a grappling-focused Paladin once that would fear a creature and then make sure it couldn't escape. It was at perma-disadvantage unless it ate its action to attempt a Wisdom CHECK (not a saving throw) to stop being scared. And if it managed, Wrathful Smite is only a 1st level slot. Obviously, unlike Wrathful, Grasping doesn't allow a saving throw at the start, but fear is a good debuff and if it sticks it sticks hard. Bonus points if you're Conquest, which I actually wasn't.
Footnote: Wrathful is also concentration, which Grasping is not. Not that I think the two should be compared straight across, because they're incredibly different. It's just that effects of this sort are VERY RARE and I think Wrathful should have more attention than it gets. Not all the attention in the world, mind, but more than it gets.
I played in a game that averaged 6 combats no Short Rests. We had a GM who was not a fan of Warlocks and we had one, so he basically punished the Party because he let one in.
I'd about say Seeking Arrow can be good, but likely only against certain targets. Namely those that like to hide during combat, mages casting Invisibility for instance, or a Drow shrouded in the Darkness spell. An invisible or unseen opponent imposes disadvantage on attacks against, assuming they are even attacking the space the opponent is even in.
Seeking Arrow, not only ignores cover, but also any form of concealment, and upon taking damage (even if halved and assuming there hiding via concentration spell) they have to make a concentration save as well as the Dex Save. On a failed Dex save, you know where the hiding creature is and thus, point it out to your party as you pepper that space with your Extra Attacks and possible Action Surge if needed.
Arcane archer could have unlocked full access to all arrow options at level 3 and almost nothing would happen balance wise, but all players would probably feel better about the subclass. Even other party members.
I think the ability score used for DC should be able to be chosen between intelligence and wisdom.
A party with a blaster warlock and an Arcane archer can really make Grasping arrow scary. Warlock casts hex (strength) and you are going to have reliable damage over multiple turns. What choice do you the DM make? Use the turn to roll strength (athletics) at disadvantage or move and take 2d6 damage. What is the better choice? This is really powerful combo with a single big bad enemy with room for the party to move as you can stay at range and if this is a melee enemy it is at a real disadvantage given its slowed movement and a warlock will likely have repelling blast if not at level 2 at least by level 5 so it is never going to catch anyone in the party that doesn't want to be caught and that assumes limited forced movement which isn't hard to gain in game. This can take a really tough fight and make it a cake walk and it does so with two "weaker" class/subclass builds. While you can get hex as an arcane archer with cross classing and or feats it is important to note that characters in a party should work together and if you have a warlock already in the party don't waste a feat or level to get hex yourself. Also getting hex for your arcane archer is less effective a separate character who is a warlock can move on a separate turn and thus reliably add 2d6 extra damage on its turn that a single arcane archer that used a level or feat to gain hex.
Another factor is that if you plan well with the boss fight you could have more than one use of grasping arrow for the fight so if the boss gets lucky you can do it again. I am not sure if I would swap out hex in a party that had an arcane archer with grasping arrow. Yes hex is meh at higher levels but casting hex for a boss fight and you know your arcane archer has charges for their arcane shots available means you are creating a major debuff on an enemy that the party can exploit for multiple dice of damage with no saves over multiple turns/rounds. Anytime the DM moves instead of trying to remove the effect at disadvantage means you and the arcane archer are the ones responsible for that damage. Anytime the DM fails the roll there is a significant change that fail was because of your hex which means you and the archer are the reason the boss wasted its turn. yeah hex normally sucks and you want to swap it out at higher levels but in this party make up it becomes a keeper "situational" spell and as you level up you can "exploit" hex durations by casting before a short rest and have it up with all your spell slots. An elf with a long rest of 4 hours or warforged with a long rest at 6 hours can take a long rest and then when the party is at hour 7 of their long rest cast the hex spell and take a short rest. This gives you the hex up for hours and all your spells slots are usable and you are not inconveniencing the rest of the party. This scales with level too, sort of, as the duration increases. Sure you will cast other concentration spells and loose the hex spell but it is there at the start of the day for some extra damage for some fights and when you really need to exploit grasping arrow you have a reason to keep hex as a situational spell. Which isn't that bad as warlocks are nothing but situational spell casters.
This is why evaluating spells and subclasses isn't as easy as a simple numbers crunch, sure hard cold numbers are vital for comparisons but mediocre abilities on their own can become S tier abilities when used in combo with other class features or spells. Teamwork can make a meh build far better than number suggest in isolation.
The thing i hate about this sub is not that its not powerful, its that you get so few options and uses that for the majority of the time if feels like you dont even have a subclass.
Honestly there should have been a constantly usable archery based feature. Something like changing damage type or an pseudo huntersmark type feature where hitting a guy plants a mark that can do something on a bonus action.
There's a few magic abilities that can be found on any weapon. The main one I see given for hand crossbows is weapon of warning.
grasping arrow
So on a failed save the target gets wrapped in thorny vines and their movement speed is reduced by 10 ft and they take 2d6 slashing DMG per FOOT that they move and that can result in some crazy DMG at lvl 3 and at 18th lvl the DMG increases to 4d6. a little over 9k DMG if a great wyrm red dragon gets entangled and moves is full 190 ft fly speed and dash meaning you do 190*2*4=1520d6 slashing dmg
Yup, been there, done that, it's pretty fun, but a short lived fun.
I tried pointing out that grasping arrow was the best arrow, but a big name(I won't call them out)youtuber, kept saying Banashing arrow was better. I couldn't convince them otherwise." The creature is gone for a round" but so what? your allies can't attack any enemy that isn't there, and they get a save and can have nothing happen, and grasping has no save.. Burtsing arrow is a good pick for low level encounter with weak enemies , but quickly loses its alure as your monsters get much stronger. They should make your uses your proficiency modifier, or maybe that +1. Start with 3 and have 4 at 5th as your proficiency bonus goes up it goes up too. A question we never got an official answer to is: If an Arcane archer takes sharpshooter and uses the -5 and misses, then uses curving arrow to target another monster, does the curved shot have to be -5 , OR can you choose to make it a regular shot before you roll your next hit? My dm said it made it too strong , if you can choose to make it a regular hit since your odds of hitting then is much better.(and I know in this case, the dm's world, the dm's rule) but I was wanting an "official" answer for it in general
Combining Grasping Arrow with Slasher feat would be pretty unexpected combination.
Seeking Arrow seems like it would be handy to use with certain magic arrows.
Never trust tier rankings.
People rank them based on their personal play style.
Someone with a different play style can take an "F tier" sub class and wipe the floor with a person playing an "S tier"
People like you, who treat TTRPs like MMOs, and look for ways to optimize instead of focusing on the CHARACTER aspect of a character are part of why people end up posting D&D horror stories :(
I'm a little surprised you didn't like shadow arrow. If they fail their save, you can action surge and get adv on the remaining attacks.
I think more monsters/enemies are going to be proficient in wisdom saves than others so it makes this one’s impact slightly smaller
the difference between the usefulness of grasping arrow and all the other ones is just shocking to me, and would be a no-brainer if i were to create an arcane archer.
no initial save required, and if the creature uses it's ACTION to remove the effect, it still has to beat the DC
Also, forced movement is a hugely underrated tactic and I'm surprised at how many players don't take more advantage of it. It's so underrated that 4E D&D literally rewrote most of its powers so that Murder Pinball wouldn't be as dominating. Graviturgists get to be a top-tier wizard just from their level 6 feature, turning spells like Eldritch Blast (if they can swing the stats), Magnify Gravity, Jim's Magic Missile, Scorching Ray, and even Magic Stone (with the help of Crusher) into easy 'you don't get to attack this round, you poor melee-dependent peasant'.
Come to think, you could probably do a whole video on the evil and hilarious things you can do with reliably access to Forced Movement. It's really hard to get, especially if we're talking about 10-foot forced movement -- where the real magic happens -- but it's oh-so-worth it. A Graviturgist and a Sorlock can keep entire enemy bruiser teams from taking a meaningful turn in T2, without even relying on stuff that requires saves.
In the D&D community’s defense, forced movement was a lot less common when this subclass was printed. If you don’t assume the party has easy access to forced movement then Grasping Arrow doesn’t look nearly as powerful.
ealry in the video he says that arcane archers get an increase of shots at 15th level this is false as they never do recieve this upgrade, what they recieve at level 15 is the ability to generate an arcane shot at the begining of combat if they didnt already have one, nothing else.
assuming 4 combats per day and you use them up in each combat you get 2+1+1+1 so it is more shots across an adventuring day at 15+
I think the simple solution to subclass is simply allow the Arcane shot to be used once per round, then at level 15 twice per round. Done. Maybe make the Save be 8 plus PB +STR Mod.
Super late, but I found a build for Arcane Archer after my character died last weekend; the core concept is battlesmith artificer and arcane archer to scale int and fighter save DC but i made some changes for the sake of cool flavor.
Variant Human; take War Caster for feat.
Artificer for levels 1 to 3; take Battle Smith so you can attack off of Intelligence and Repeating Shot infusion onto Longbow (no more ammo)
Fighter for levels 4 to 9; pick up arcane archer and Magic Initiate (Wizard) for two damaging cantrips and a 1st level at Fighter 4; and Fighter 6 can be a personal choice
Now, your firebolt and Ray of Frost essentially only require verbal components and can be fired from your bow :) plus you get some nice utility spells like Faerie Fire and Grease
Seemed like a bit fun and fitting flavor - considering magic archer?
Edit; Pretty sure, this is by no means is this "optimal" though lol
Really think the Arcane Shot uses should be Proficiency Bonus times per day, with half recovering on a Short Rest. That would make them a lot more useful and scaling better in comparison with spell caster classes.