NEW Goths Strategy
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- Опубликовано: 23 авг 2024
- The Goths have always been about their infantry spam, but recently "free loom" has given them something to take advantage of at a much earlier stage. Most high level players haven't done much with the bonus yet, but I've played against this player who has a cool strat nailed down! The idea? Send a villager forward!
➣ / t90official
➣ / t90official
➣ / t90official
➣ / t90official
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This video was created under Microsoft's "Game Content Usage Rules" using assets from Age of Empires II: Definitive Edition, © Microsoft Corporation.
Really curious to hear your thoughts on the strategy and if you’ve toyed around with this yourself! Let me know in the comments. (Also I’ve already completed my move and all is good, thanks for asking!)
blame lack of scouting not on pushing deer? oboi
Nice that your move worked well
Now you only have to survive the US these days :D
Goths have amazing throwing axe-men apparently. 2:12
T90 I want to share a thought about this game that will sound very bad, but hear me out: I think when playing the franks against the goths 1vs1 it was a big mistake to go hand canoneer. I think the game would have been MUCH closer without them.
You kept questioning us in the replay about what we thought throwing axemen would do against huskarls, and I already knew how it would turn out: throwing axemen are AWESOME against huskarls, but just like ANY other counter you can get easely overwhelmed by the creation speed of them, hence you need to be extremely carefull (especially later in the game) to have very decent numbers of them to kill them fast enough that you at least win for a while (because anything loses against the creation train eventually).
Axemen cost half the gold of a hand canoneer, but perform just as well in large numbers as canons. Inmagine you having teched into champion as you mentioned was in your mind this game already. Again a low cost gold unit that would have made your axemen behind it so much stronger. You would have kept up production longer with your goldpiles and the combination would stop him in his tracks at the locations u would want it to happen, maybe even taking his extra golds.
Curious what you think, but it was a very nice game to watch. Always happy when you show your own great gameplay.
So, should you have walled late feudal early castle, or what's your rationale behind not?
Other AOE pros: Upload all wins
T90: Upload only loses
the greatest teacher failure is
just as you said, all the PROS upload wins....
AniMangoVideo smart !
plot twist: T90 never wins
Karel Jílek he won against Viper so ...
Another fun strat with the Goth loom bonus.
A loomed villager can safely lure a boar from over half a small map so you can send a vill to your opponents base, kill off their dear and the lame one of their boars and your vill will survive the journey back to your tc unless they get attacked by something else.
Didn't mbl did this in a ranked game at some point. I don't know anymore mbl probably have done all the laming strategies at some point or another 11
That is evil.
Could go well with berbers as well, they can run from boars for a while
Giant Otter Yeah but they have to actually research loom, with Goths you can send your starting vill to lame your opponent.
Don’t know if that would be a good idea but Goths can do it a lot quicker and their boar damage bonus means you don’t need as many vills to kill the boar than other civs.
@@NikozBG Yeah, against bipah, but didnt work out perfectly
I think this is a "Spiritofthelaw"-situation as I like to call them. The Axemen should counter the Huskarls with equal numbers. However with equal recources the number of the Huskarls gets so overwhelming that they equalize the disadvantage. Take in the faster reinforcements and you are done for.
That's the huge problem with Huskarls. They don't have a single counter that's cost effective except for some unique units. So against a civ that doesn't have that unique counter the Goth player just has to pressure enough to get to castle and they'll basically win by default.
@@Orudaiken Do you think that going the Cavalier/Paladin route instead of throwing axemen would have been the better move?
@@Shero1337 IMO Cavaliers and Paladins are too little too late and teching to them is more expensive as a whole.
Clash infantry vs infantry, abuse your stronger eco and creep into his base with siege + infantry, generally his base will be weaker than yours, abuse that, just as much as he abuses his cheap units
@@Nexsyana Infantry vs infantry vs goths just seems like you always would lose. You would need an food/gold eco that is 35% better than your opponent's just to match their infantry. Seems like that would be tough to do.
@@Shero1337 It does seem that way, but dont forget supplies...That plus your better eco *COULD* make it less goth sided, still not a perfect counter by any means of the imagination.
As it seems for me, right now you either cavalry push early or infantry stall late with siege and/or gunpowder being your lifeline.
I remember playing with a friend and i said "why would I defend my base by walking my army back? I can teleport them from the front for a small fee
You a WC3 player or what 11
@@NikozBG Could also definitely be starcraft 2, I believe you had the mothership teleport ability
reminds me of protoss from starcraft lol
@@nickvanwalderveen425 He's referring to letting his units die and then make them again.
@@raynmanshorts9275 izi
Based on SpiritoftheLaw, Goths' gameplan is always infantry spam...
And when they failed, add more infantries
20 forwards and no goalie.
Goths: Never - Enough - lnfantry!
Villager walks all the way to the other side of the building to repair😂
you have to start with repairing the door.
Classic aoe ai
Gotta love it
There is a villager between me and the building. Let me pick a bit of building on the same side that I am close to.
I will just walk around this wall
the 6:45 bug does also apply to rams, incredibly alloying when you rightclick a castle with 2 rams, 1 goes straight to work, 1 is like oh this side is taken, I'll 180 around and start work like 8 seconds late (unless a single Cavalier makes me crumble before)
Teutons counter Goths the best.
At 29:43 : At least you don't have a lonely "What is that farm?!" present.
At 31:32 : And there is a lonely "What is that farm?!" present. I stand corrected.
If this is about the Teutonic Knights, they are still incredibly slow and Goths have Hand cannons/Heavy Scorp which counter them if you happen to invest in a large TK push
I think Japanese and Aztecs have the better matchup cause of their Uniques and fully upgraded Champions with anti inf bonus
@@DuckieMcduck You've also got Champions with 6 melee armor, and can mix in Onagers to kill Hand Cannons and Heavy Scorpions.
@@DuckieMcduck There are Teutonic Paladins (which are second to Lithuanian Paladins, and Lithuanian Paladins are the best if you can get 3+ relics) and their Champion line, which have +2 free melee armor by the time they reach the Imperial Age. So mix those in with Teutonic Knights, and you have a good chance at dealing with Goths. Also, Teutons get hand cannons, bombard cannon, heavy scorpions, siege onagers, and halbs (which also get +2 free melee armor) as well. Should note ALL barracks and stable units get +2 free melee armor total upon reaching the Imperial Age (+1 in Castle Age and +1 in Imperial Age).
There is no way in hell the goth player can even reach imp let alone hc if you have a lot of teutonic knights in castle and stonewalled your base hard. That huskarl mobility is simply irrelevant if they're forced to defend their base and can't sneak into yours.
@@Wadusher
Teutonic Knights really are the best defense a Castle can use against Goths. Ordinarily Goth Huskarls and Longswordsmen can brute force demolish a castle, but Teutonic Knights are essentially impervious to these units, and Rams as well should they try that.
For me, the problem was having the axe men always split into two groups, especially because they are slow. The more unit you have in the same place, the more you can abuse the range advantage.
One or two trebs as soon as you can and 50-60 axemen going into a corner when a fight begins, and lets go! When only 15-30 huskarl will be able to engage at the same time, it will be a massacre. In fact that's what T90 wanted to do (and tried to do at the end), but he tried to much to control the map, you can't do that if you want a death ball of slow units. But in the action, I understand why he wasn't able to do it.
I played Goths once on random civ. I felt like I was playing the game on easy mode. I just spammed units into my opponent until they all resigned. No skill required (in my case). I lost a ton of units but in the end it didn't matter. I can definitely see why they're a top civ.
Top civ? Their win rate is below average.
"good fight I killed most of his maa"
He killed 2 maa
Wouldn't m@a be better abbreaviation?
@@Shrapnel57 ya. But ya know I'm lazy
LuNi.Fi man at arms
He got all of them pretty low tho
ma'arms
Throwing axemen feel like the warrior class from the 80's arcade game Gauntlet! :)
Thank you for the giant red arrows in the thumb nail, I would never have seen the Barracks or villager otherwise
Oh T90 is playing?
The farms are not horrible?
Must be an imposter.
Didn't you see his big announcement? He actually learned to farm
@@shigekisun3922 Neh, it was Lorena who placed those farms
*cries in **29:43*
How many archery ranges did he build?
Must have not watched the whole video then, cuz the last half of the game is full of T90Farms 😂
Thanks so much for the vid T90. I watch a lot of sc2 as well, and i am really amused that a proxy rax opener is a new strat 20 years into a games life. Love it.
2:12 Goth have a new unique unit from the new patch
Lol....This should be top comment.
11111111111111111
I missed it at the first time!
funny xD, but he was talking about the Franks :b. "Franks aren't a bad civ to face off against the goths, they have the amazing throwing axemen."
@@iLuvHinata360 omg 11 lol! You are right!😂
20:22 he didn't notice the sick spinning the ram did :D
Beyblade time
"Look like this is fifth town center now what a boomer " oh i laughted
Goths are by far my least-favorite civ to play against.
I actually groan out loud when my opponent is goths because I know I have to go aggressive Feudal into all-in castle or there's no chance - especially since I usually go Mayans.
@@ajbdkla3652 I usually go Mayans as well. I have never won a game against a Goth player as Mayans.
@@ajbdkla3652 Definitely.
20:21 the legend of the spinning Ram is real.
21:06
Is it really fair to say they counter Axemen just because they won a heavily favored engagement where they had almost 50% more troops?
well huskarls also cost basicially nothing compared to axemen
@@ausintune9014
Not really, axemen aren't that expensive. If I googled correctly they're about the same, 55f25g (axemen) vs 52f26g (huskarl) .
@@NivMizzet89 Absolutely, I'm not sure why T90 kept saying throughout the video "but my units are expensive".
Throwing Axemen have one advantage over Huskarls, and it's their range. When you keep sending 20 Axemen at a time into a Goth base in a post-imp game, how do you ever expect to win a fight when the Goth player can simply surround you with 40 Huskarls?
@@ComeRestusFX that's fair, although i think his point is also that huskarl spam is still gonna beat it because they are fast enough to zerg the axemen pretty effectively instead of getting kited or whatever, so it winds up not being that bad to overwhelm the axemen eventually no matter what. agree that he took bad enough fights to undermine his point, but i still feel like i'd rather be on the Goths side in this fight...
@@NivMizzet89 Yeah, huskarls actually have a pretty high base cost.
"Help I've been flooded and I can't eco!"
33:53 T90: "The game is going to go one way or the other"
Me: "Phhhh...105"
I believe this used to be the original aztec/mayans drush, invented by a player called Mozart_ on Zone a billion years ago (before the drush we do today was a thing 11). You're supposed to fc behind and go mass archers
Huskarls are fun. I usually play Goths, and in one game, while I was building up an army to attack with, my opponent called GG. I looked at what happened and it turns out a bunch of my Husks had somehow ended up following one of his units into his base and taken out his TCs and most of his vils!
So broken LMAO
Nice comment, lol
34:47 This reminds me of lion king, i feel like i should Simba up over here. XD
I’ve lost to this exact strat so many times now, usually it’s gg before castle age. It seems like playing goths faster is the only counter.
T90: my goal is to make siege and force a fight.
enemy: forces a fight at T90's base
T90: surprised pikachu face
The walls at ~23:10 when the castle was denied. That could have been a 4 tile wall instead of a 9 tile wall if you had walled to the right instead of to the north. Even without more villagers, the wall would have at least been complete before the Huskarls arrived
Gotta Love the spinning RAM at 20:21
I played goths vs Malians on Acropolis. The Malians guy walled himself and the Gbeto melted the Huskarl train... as Goths despite all the map control and res, I lost so much I couldn't come back.. @T90Official - Just brainstorming... Could you have gone for Franks Paladin? Wouldn't that be better and with stables, you would have massed more of those boys?
The problem is that Goths can spam halbs just as fast as huskarls and they're dirt cheap, while paladins cost way more gold than axemen, and he was running out of gold. Not saying it wouldn't work, but it would be hard to sustain against an endless flood of halberdiers
You should have added siege to take out the walls and rush the gbetos, preferably bombard cannons.
@@christophercappiello9788 I agree. The best T90 could have tried would be hussar raids while defending at the base. Paladins would only be a waste of resources due to halbs spam.
"people love goths"
That's one way to start a video.
2:12 Ahhh yess, Goths with their amazing Throwing Axeman.. Good job T90 :P
0:16 boar pushes the deer xd
6:50 shit like this happens to me EVERY SINGLE GAME..... it really stops me from enjoying the game as much as i would normally....
I really like these videos where you review your own videos! Please make more of these! Also definitely think the vil can do something!
nice T90 farms @12:50
23:20 feels more like daut walls, not 10 tiles in front to protect gold, but 10 tiles in back, where 3 tiles in back could do it.
23:27 That denied castle hurt my soul so bad
ENGLISH: THIS STRATEGY IS CALLED, THE TUKANETA, and it was invented by a caster in Spanish called NACHO AOE, over there he has his channel, the thing is that they send a villager forward to make a militia, and to put a tower in some economic point, that's basically the toucanet.
ESPAÑOL: ESTA ESTRATEGIA SE LLAMA, LA TUKANETA, y fue inventada por un caster en español llamado NACHO AOE, por ahi tiene su canal, la cosa esta q mandan a un aldeano adelante a hacer milicia, y a poner una torre en algun punto economico, eso es basicamente la tucaneta.
*That rocky outcrop is Jon Snow and friends north of the wall with a captured wight.*
I personally would have gone scorp+paladin. Really expensive, but Paladinos shred huskarls. If he mixed in halbs, I've had mixed in skirms and archers
7:00 LOL the militia following the woman XDDD also, never use less than 10 barracks if you really want to overwhelm your opponent. If your eco can take it that is.
That one Goth Villager in the Dark Age that built the Barracks is the MVP.
I tried this today. It works, even against the AI!
I have no idea why you made hand cannon against huskarls - huskarls kill hand cannons in 2 hits (vs 6 hits to kill a throwing axemen). Hand cannons also cost twice as much gold to produce.
What would jesus do?
haha what a fun watch!! Thanks for sharing and the commentary was spot on!!! And he sure did have a great strategy. I'm currently trying to get better w Goths
I've done some terrible scout rushes as goths, the food eco makes it very easy to go castle and imperial quickly without suffering eco
Should've:
- walled yourself with stone
- protected your eco in mid-game
- spammed monks
- said GG after the first Elite Huskarl showed up.
Those farms at 29:45 tho :D
One thing ive not seen people understand is that huskarls arent cheap. Base price is 80-40, nearly DOUBLE the price of an equivalent champion. That makes them 56/28-52/26 in castle-imperial. For reference axemen throw 55/25 of resources at the opponent so effectively huskarls & axemen are equal in price.
I'll never make fun of people falling for mind games. Had a game where I was on the verge of loosing to dozens of hand cannoneers when I thought about giving up. Then he messaged me wether I would give up or he should destroy my base. See from my point of view there was a huge number still incoming but after I gave up and saw the map I realized how he made me give up and there was barely any army left. I couldn't fathom I'd been done like that.
Damn, imagine if he mixed in Onagers!
Further on that, Onager+Huskarl makes much more sense than Trebuchet+Huskarl. Huskarls already counter castles and arrow fire, hence the range of a Trebuchet would not matter. Onager would counter Throwing Axemen and Hand Cannoneer, and force them to remain in staggered formation or get flattened, allowing them to be more easily picked off by Huskarl. This would force Cavalier/Paladin to be used from the Franks, which would be countered by cheap Goth Halberdier; Light Cav and Bombard Cannon both get soft countered by Huskarl.
When I checked about the unit I saw Huskarl had 0.9 speed before any expansion. They have 1.05 now.
Maybe it could be good to go back to the 0.9 speed. Of course, in the end the spam would be the same but you would have more time to react and range melee damage like throwing axemen would be a real counter to the Huskarls because of the micro.
Hey @T90official just a quick comment sounds like your audio sampling rate or bitrates has been reset lower on your mic, there's some noticeable compression aliasing not usually there.
GG! What a game! I'm Noob and goths are my fav civ.
Why I clicked on this video! Let's start a club lol
0:28 I honestly thought this (edit: the chime) was the start of "Mad World" by Gary Jules to set the tone for the story lol
32:42 : T90, researching Champions -- against *Goths*.
It's alright man, we all have our moments. Goths are about the only Civ that can execute that initial vision of what infantry are supposed to be: cheap, massable, and murder buildings. Seriously, when killing a TC, I don't usually go any less than 15 Longswords (even then, I want 20), but maybe 8 Huskarls will bring one down.
Why didn’t you wall his barracks in with 5 villagers while it was being built?
Cause that's massive idle time, and like losing a villager anyway.
@@Walkop It would be for the Goth player too if the barracks is useless. 175 wood "down the pooper," as T90 says, and also the forward vil that isn't acomplishing anything.
Thats how old legends dealt with forward racks and it worked, now is rare to see it
Yeah honestly. This was my first reaction. Why not just wall in the barracks?
Thanoskarl: You should have gone for the head...
I was wondering why this video got recommended to me out of so many but then I realized, today is April 1st, 2021. Its because the goth guy made an April fool out of T90 which is why RUclips recommendation was like, here you go!
Ive played this game for so long, but ive only ever played against bots so seeing how actual people play is mind boggling. My mouth literally dropped when i seen a villager surround itself in walls when it was getting attacked. Hope i never go up against that lol
Is Frank light cav not a nice counter to huskarls? I know there is no bonus dmg, but 1 think 1 light cal will kill one huskarl. Frank have more HP and faster build time for light cav units and you spend no gold. Hussars could also be a good counter. I don't play AOE2 often so I'm very curious if this could work. Someone shoud test this. (dont know how the scenario editor work)
I played Alaric campaign literally yesterday and the axemen were pretty hard to handle, i had to invest into hussars to get rid of them, because huskarls weren't enough and the halb flood was taking too long
14:37 Why the hell is there a cliff, it has no sense, at least it would be a good idea to make a tower there, but its useless at the end
That's what I do all the time with those cliffs. Throw in some archers and plug it up with a wall. Even better with Yasama towers or Korean towers.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Huskarls actually dominate hand cannons despite what you would think.
I like this new strategy. But there is something else about this game that I would like to know:
At about 25:00 (after your castle went down) I would have slowed down with the attack as the goth player and would have
tried to add handcannons. Handcannon + Infantry combination for the goth seems like a good play to me vs the Franks.
But since I don't play on such a high level there probably is a good reason why the goth player just continued with pure infantry here, but I can't find it.
Because Hand canoners take way longer to produce and are way more expensive
0:41 : is he using the scout to make the deer move towards his town centre?? That's a thing you can do?? :O
That's been a thing since the game first released.
Aw dang. Am such a newb xD
Lol love the name Puerco Prieto hahahha
Meaning please
@@rajeswarbanerjee2578 Basically N word Pig
@@PhillKaggitz omg 11
the only thing that makes sense of the game is repairing the building on different sides. villagers can't stand only at one side and renovate whole building, that's too lazy. they have to travel around the building and repair every damage. good job aoe de
Throwing Axeman you fight with archers or you die. It's a really underrated unit.
The goths can rush them down, they can charge at a high speed and have extreme level of reinforcements that a castle only units can never match.
hey t-90 you should just get like a minor visual graphic of a thumbs up that pops up in a corner once random in videos just to remind us to like, we wont mind. I keep forgetting
You should've defended your base with knights. Huskarls have no base armor, and knights start with 2. And you're Franks, you have so much HP. I know you're probably afraid of halb spam but if that forces him to use less huskarls, your castles can actually help defend. I reckon you'd have held onto your base way easier stationing knights under your castles. If he's spamming halbs instead of huskarls, you have conned the goth into playing your game instead of you playing his.
That's my 2c from a low elo legend :D thanks for the upload mate glad the move went well
I tried to make throwing axemen work, I really did ... but it's only ok in specific situations. my take on it, just spam heavy cavalry combined with crossbows or champion against trash and halberdiers against camels
Someone out there has to make a mod where animals reproduce (based on numbers nearby), trees regrow (based on how many used cells), and a cycle of day/night.
So, Rimworld?
Hey @T90Official I had one crazy game like you there, but me as goths and behind ag. paladin+axe throwers. Still won after recovering and raiding. Like you always say, some civs should fight in 1 spot and others not. I improve a lot from your vids how to adapt even though i dont play often. Sadly my friends at 1300 elo hd are hard to educate 11
I got the repair bug last night. A villager refused to move, was stuck, 20 right clicks later nothing, had to get it to do something else and then to repair again for him to repair. I killed him after the repair.
just a man felt the power of Goths well
that ram is a war hero
I don't necessarily think TA counter Huskarls, but that they trade well vs. them, but would be most effective with a cheap meat shield in front (pike/halb or light cav/hussar depending on castle/imp)
another great episode of low elo keep it up !
I think this forward barracks strat is risky thing because it only works if the guy delays militia production. Forward barracks cost effective only if you will pump a lot of man at arms from it. so correct answer for this is just go as fast as you can to feudal and make archers i guess instead of mirroring militia. But then again it depends on how much of good use he would be able to get from this one forward vil. I wanna try it.
Ghots don't have the throwing axemen , those are the Franks
"I hope you don't miss me too much".
we do.
Maybe you should play safe and hold the axemans together. So that you dont lose too many of them. So you yould make paladin in front of them :)
iirc goths don't get infantry discount in dark age anymore. It should start from feudal as it was before the big buff
I fear no man, but that thing. THE SPAM IT SCARES MEE
0:04 "People love goths"
I really hate goths. In low level games they are really OP, it's just not fun to play against them.
Ok, 2 things T90.
First, you should have raided eith your militia instead of taking a fight against men-at-arms. The militia is always going to loose that fight, but they could easily take out a villager or two at his base at this time.
Secondly, the moment you pushed away the first wave of goth you should have put a single treb behind your axemen in one big blob insted of running them in seperate groups around the map. That way you could push him and dictate the fight instead of letting him roam around with units for so long before you tried thr blob approach. Once you did it was too late. Eventhough you might not take anything out with that treb it would be worth it just because you would be forcing his units into your blob.
@33:00 you should have just walked your axemen in after taking down the castle.
Also, T90 farms cost you here bud. Cool vid though!
Next Video : you dare use my own spells against me?
@t90 you are inthe process of moving? didn't you just move recently?
I'm like 900-1000 elo and I've done this before as goths! at that elo it's easy because any pressure is stressful
Goths vs Franks
Literally just spam pikemen with Huskarls and watch the panic XD
Just get champions and kill everything? Works for me usually
Lol what is that silly wololo sound, and how do I get it 🤣🤣
You dare use my own spells against me Potter?
I'm in love with this strategy
Oh, a new episode of Low Elo Legends? Thanks, that's my favourite series, keep it going!
You said in your announcement that your farms got better... :D