Daniel Barenboim & Christoph Waltz on the meaning of music
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- Опубликовано: 1 окт 2024
- In Part 1 of his conversations with Christoph Waltz, Daniel Barenboim tackles the question of what music should or can mean. Here both artists discuss the difference between profession and professionalism, and the importance of one’s own life experiences when playing works by Beethoven.
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Almost four years after “Parallels & Paradoxes” Daniel Barenboim and Christoph Waltz meet again for an interdisciplinary discourse at Pierre Boulez Saal in Berlin. Back then both discussed a wide range of topics revealing multiple parallels and paradoxes between the arts, philosophical standpoints and the understanding of music. In the brand-new series “Conversations with Christoph Waltz” the world-renowned musician and award-winning actor focus on music and its contribution to the world, but also on music as a world in itself, trying to define the meaning of music by relating to Beethoven every now and then.
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![Critic & Musical Career | Daniel Barenboim Replies To Comments No.3 [subtitled]](/img/1.gif)
What does music mean to you?
Music means the sublimation of emotions through the synergy of melody, harmony, phrasing, rhythm, timbre, texture, and tempo.
Para mí significa un refugio incondicional cuando el mundo se vuelve humanamente difícil de soportar
It's a way of living.
A way of Life
Hello Daniel,
music is the root for everything I ever admired from the bottom of my heart.
As in a musician, dancer, athlete, artist, performer, choreographer and teacher.
I believe for everything that surrounds us too, I try to explain that with an example.
It begins with a simple rhythm, those waves inspire a body to vibrate and sparks micro chemical/physical reactions that visualises in forms and shapes to the outside. Absorbing and repeating this process will eventually lead to a transformation of the simple rhythm into a melody and here, we are evolving our structures into more complexity and hopefully more beauty.
sincerely Mr. Valeri
EDIT: Is a beating heart music?
“You don’t become a musician because you can but you become a musician because you cannot without” what a great distinguishing fact!
Seven yağlı yorumu
Daniel Barenboim best Beethoven interpreter in my opinion
A surprise to be sure, but a welcome one
as a composer one of the things i love most about music is the simple fact that creating a new melody almost seems like introducing a new flower, or tree or animal onto the planet that no one has ever seen or experienced before - of course abstract painters and sculptors broke the bounds of expressing reality in a representational way, i think, precisely to enjoy this same kind of creativity - at any rate, all life is art as all good living comes from a creative place - for example, almost everyone can identify with the experience of having a wonderful conversation with a good friend where neither person is aware where the conversation is going or what topics will arise or who will talk less or more than the other - but it all flows beautifully because it is simply allowed to happen and create itself - the so-called 'artist' is engaged in the same kind of 'dance' with life - and ultimately it is really about the 'dance' with oneself - therein lies true wisdom
I hope that you understand how much I love this comment. It is so beautiful, and it is such a wonderful description of... music... of creating melodies... Thank you for your comment.
As a non-composer I am curious if you think the same way about the end product? And if you always see it that way? As a casual uninformed listener there are some pieces where my experience of listening to them is entirely like what you describe. The music seems like a natural phenomena that is just there, and it changes and morphs in front of me as I listen, and although I have an emotional reaction to it I don't feel a need to necessarily construct a concrete explanation for it like an overarching story or tie it to a real world experience or think about other things that could trigger a similar set of emotions.
And I can understand how for a composer finding themes might always be like that, because a theme really is just an abstract unit, once one is found you can manipulate it to bring out different characteristics and change it and then combine it with other elements that accentuate or contrast with it, and place it with related themes it sits well with.
But then at the end of it you have a finished product, which sometimes seems quite tied to reality. If you have something like "The Ox Cart" from Mussorgsky's pictures at an exhibition, can you really interpret that as anything else other than an ox cart travelling past the listener? Or even bigger pieces like Shostakovich's 1905 symphony, can you interpret that as anything other than a protest that is violently and tragically squashed, before eventual triumph over the oppressors? (obviously which oppressor you have in mind may differ).
How can you answer "what does music mean" in a unified way that deals with both cases? Or are they different sub-classes of music (which raises the question of where the dividing line is)
Smartness and humility. Winning combo
Interesting interview. Love it when different profession respect each others like this.
I didn't understand anything from all of this, but this topic is important
It's a lot of self important nonsense.
@@stefanbernhard2710Because you’re a musical expert, aren’t you? One does get second hand embarrassment when people like you advertise their ignorance by being insulting.
Mr. Waltz is quite wrong about non-expert listeners being ignorant and knowing nothing. During my childhood so-called classical music did not exist and was disliked. On my own I, aged ten to twelve, discovered a bottom drawer with records my grandfather left.. I started listening and loving this music ever mnore. I played it to friends and said listen to what happens here and here. I had a long way to go but I knew something and that something eas important, eternal. At first I played the records of Schubert's piano Trio in B falt in any order, than I realised there was an order and a relatioship between the movements. That first experience has remained with me forever even after I studied music Unforgettable the ineffable simple beauty of the second theme in the first movement, not to mention the slow movement.
I have long thought Herr Waltz to be a snob, and he keeps on confirming that (part) presumption I had bit by bit. In fact, I doubt he is as knowledgeable on these subjects as he claims to be, as Maestro Barenboim is clearly carrying most of the conversation here.
true experts know what they do not know more than what they know...
@@nelsonang - That remark makes no sense. You would have to explain better.
@@felixdevilliers1 my bad... typo error... true experts know what they do not know more than what they know... :)
Name a more iconic duo, I will wait. He should have played some waltzes though.
Make 1.25 in daniels talk
Gracias Maestro Daniel por tener a tan gran Actor ! Saludos desde 🇦🇷 Argentina
Where can I find part 2 of this conversation ? But Barenboim says much more when he plays music than when he talks about it.
How wonderful to discover this channel. Thank you Maestro!
Thank you, Maestro. These days I feel like I’m witnessing the end of all arts, not just performing arts ( stage arts) but altogether.
Today’s kids are exposed to the world much earlier than ever. Before they enjoy fully “to be a kids”, they have to see things we use to experience in our adult life.
We all benefit from this pandemic, for example to be able to hear your performance online, at the same time “free or charged webinar” everywhere where people talk about things like we used to have conversations with our friends or even someone who at the next table at the coffee shop. Metropolitan museum might have to sell their own collection to finance themselves ( it hasn’t finalized yet) . I’ve already seen some concert hall in Europe sold their own arts in the hall to pay their employees. On the other hand, we already know “ who “ made billions on this pandemic. It is crazy. If we replace “music” to “life” in your question, we can see your point really clearly. SNS became new monotheism.....
Music most fundamentally is any sort of arranged sounds in time. To ascribe "meaning" to it is rather pointless, it just is what it is. The only reason it's to tempting to talk about "meaning" in it is because music can include
A. SINGING with WORDS, which takes it completely outside the realm of just "arranged sounds" and can then relate to nothing BUT "meanings" and their relation to things,
B. Singing and the relationship with our natural linguistic tendencies and relatively universal sounds associated with all the various states of being (happy sad excited romantic playful funny fearful stressful nervousness expressing pain or joy etc etc etc) and
C. the fact that music is intertwined with other media and potentially any particular moment or activity in people's lives, particularly movies and television, that do in fact ascribe direct objective meanings to music based on what the meaning of the thing it is associated with or associated with to you
(FACTS OVA FEELINGS). MUSIC IS WATT TELLS US THA THE HUEMAN RACE IS GREATER THAN WEE REAL-EYE
What a pleasant surprise to better my day!
As a pianist, aficionado of these two fine artists and a lover of a good philosophical conversation, I'm gonna go out and say it: The conversations between these two are more complex than a nuclear power plant wiring system. I even dare to say it doesn't make sense most of the time or go somewhere in a meaningful way, but by leaving my conscious plane, it sounds like music to me. Which means I have arrived at the theme of this conversation, pondering what does music mean to me.
Ah! So it doesn't make sense not only for me 😆
"Music is the melody whose text is the world." - Arthur Schopenhauer
People become musicians not because they can, but because they must.
This is one of those rare cases where you press "Like" before the video starts.
Barenboim is a treasure for the whole mankind.
I find this conversation fascinating
...not for the reasons one might suppose. Were listening to two educated men discuss a subject which in the case of the maestro is the substance of his professional life...and yet the observations are soooo dreadfully narcissistic and frankly uninsightful. If music must be heard live...poor Ludwig apparently never really appreciated music or....whatever. Right now...in my head I can hear Edvard Grieg's piano concerto...in my head...sans Daniel. No orchestra...not live...it is bona fide stupidity to make the claims that are made. They are only the vacuous assumptions of a technocrat. Music exists independent, apart and independent of musicians in a music hall. It has an exist that is in the truest sense eternal and substantive...without the accidens of batons, or cadences or slurs...Danny you somehow think that Rembrandt is just brush strokes on a particular canvas at a particular moment and place. Wow. So freaking stupid.
You don't need to know facts. Just listen intently and the music will do something to you, whether you like it or not. If you don't like it, it has affected you, if you do like it, it has done more than that!
Hola Maestro Baremboin me daría un consejo para memorizar las obras.
Solo me gussta tocar el Piano y lo disfruto mucho.
Agradecería su Respuesta lo admiro mucho y le tengo gran cariño s pesar que no le conosco.
Creo que el universo nos conecta a todos
De una forma o otra todo esto es muy extraño.
I'm quite frankly not impressed by the non sequiturs of Christoph Waltz. Much of what he says is meant to sound intellectual without being so. It's the artifice of the actor that is being constructed here. Waltz is twisting himself into verbal knots and Barenboim is composed and logical.
¡¡Bravo Daniel !!
¡¡ De ❤ muchísimas gracias Sr. Daniel Barenboim por tan simples y bellas palabras sobre el significado de la Música !!
Hermosa su frase: "You don't become a musician because you can, but you become a musician because you can not without". Cuando un piano y un pianista, cuando un músico y la música 🎶🎵🎶🎶🎵🎶 se unen en un sólo alma eso pasa...
❤🎶🎵🎶🎶🎵🎶... magia...,
es difícil describirlo con palabras ...
es sentimiento puro...
¡¡ Muchísimas gracias también por todas sus interpretaciones !!
Desde Buenos Aires, ¡¡ Qué Dios lo bendiga con muy buena salud !!
👍💯💯💯💯💯👏👏👏🎶🎵🎶🎶❤🎶🎵🎶👏👏👏👏💐🌹🌸💮🏵🌹🌸💮🏵💐🍀🍀🍀🍀🤗
Music - which is just a name at the end of the day - means everything. It seems to transcend everything else. We have musical theory, which helps us to understand, write and perform music to some extent but it is nontheless just theory. Music can not fully be explained away by science. It suggests something more, something greater as it can express what can be spoken or written or shown. However, you can not capture what music expresses in writing, speech or visuals.
I would like to be able to speak or write to Mr. Barenboim just for a second or two just to tell him that his interpretation on CD of the Bach 48 Peeludes and Fugues is one of the greatest gifts I have ever received. I had the good fortune to hear him play live several times in London, indescribably wonderful experiences: Schumann, Beethoiven Sonatas more meaningful than ever -one felt the relationship between the movements and every trill had a real significance.. I thought I didn't like Liszt but he converted me with Liszt's big Sonata. Once when I went backstage he was very rude to me. He was alone speaking to a woman who was a friend. I asked him whether he intended to record the Schumann Sonatas and he replied with a forceful NO which also dismissed me from his presence. Of course I have forgiven him. The Schumann Sonatas contain some of the most beautiful music written for the piano, unique, miraculous works.
One thing I really don't like about this is that Daniel Barenboim acts as though he's giving facts when he is really just talking philosophy. There are many different kinds of music, and if one is being honest, most musicians cannot make a living off of music, so it isn't really a "privilege".
As someone who got an undergraduate degree in music, I play a lot of music in community ensembles and at home alone in the form of etudes, but I don't make enough money with it to pay for even 1/3 of my rent, and I live in relatively cheap housing (rent is $1,020/month). The money I do make in music comes from being in an Army National Guard band.
I am just about to pursue a second career in cyber security by going back to college for a second undergraduate degree in computer science, and then a Masters in cyber security. I feel that music has given me nothing but personal growth. It is not an ideal career choice for the majority of musicians that cannot make a decent living in it. Daniel Barenboim is the exception, not the norm.
He is the exception yes, but he deserves to be- he has the talent.
He says it is a privilege because you always have something new to learn or feel when playing music. Unlike other activities where you end up in a routine. In the way I see it money do not play a role when defining music
I'm guessing the experience of being a professional musical in the US is different than being one in Europe: orchestras in the US primarily support themselves with ticket sales, and European orchestras are well-supported by the State, no? (To our detriment as Americans!) I also think Europeans are largely more knowledgeable abt and interested in classical music than Americans. These two cultural differences must certainly make it much more difficult to be a professional musician in the US
Very similar experience here. I feel almost useless as a music teacher, although I enjoy playing very much. And that activity has kept me isolated and quite lonely...but, I cannot live without.
Cheers...
The thing is that the “meaning “ of music , it will only be explained with music itself, not in words.
Indeed.
Why - we have words!
@@MartinSmithMFM Yes I know, I mean the great composers , classical, don’t need to explain in words what they have done, also he didn’t put titles, they put “numbers “, today composers need , in the first pages of the work, to explain what they want to do, the “meaning “ is not in the “music “ as always in history. It sounds like Ludwig in his 5* , pa-pa-Pam and explain “a friend of mine had a heart attack, the second Pa-pa-pan , his soul is elevated to heaven. Sounds ridiculous, and if his is alive, maybe he kills me. Nothing to explain, here is the score just play it. The “meaning “ is there. Sorry about the comparation.
@@marcelorago8522 Well that was neither too fluent not too eloquent. Wonderful words can explain wonderful things. Read Hesse's charcters about music.
Martín, you are right, I am talking not of the point of view of a listener, on the point of view of composers. That is what I try to said.
invitation to beauty & mystery of existence
Everyone is hating on Christoph but I think not everyone understands what he meant. We are seeing a musician and an actor talk about their approaches to music. Of course the musician will give a point of view in which music is different, rare, unique and changeable depending on the context and situation, and thus you learn different things even if you play the same piece over and over again. And you learn even more if you ignore routine and attach yourself to the abstract part of music, which has millions of combinations and words and notes and rythms and intentions. On the other side, what I think Waltz meant is that, when you work in films, theatre or any other dramatic art, music is neccesary, even if you don't know anything about it theorically, because it can help to express the feeling, situation or mood of the scene or film it is included in, or it can even help predict events that will occur.
Music is exploration of our unconscious psyche.
Passion? Depth and intense. It must carry the spirit through performance.
fan of both
NEGLECT THE BOIM AND ITS DISSIDENT PRECEPTS
Familiarity blinds.
the arch enemy of music is routine 🤯
The arch enemy of *life* is routine
Cannot live without.
Web connection is giving us the huge opportunity to let them our most beloved celebrities how much we care, how much they mean to us and ... it's a very classical feeling, making smart promotion, those who need to discover the classical music from now on, because... it's worthy, big loving hug Maestro Barenboim, never stop believe in, you are doing a great job indeed
More significantly we live in the Covid period, rather than 1771+250. And of course music exists elsewhere, eg in our minds. We are one of him, he one of us - yes. Along with the spiritual base.
Hallo. Schönen Abend ihr beiden. This was very cool. I have been listening to quite a bit of symphony again and been loving it. Especially some Bruckner, Chopin and also some Mahler. Music means a whole lot, and I could come up with my own words, but I thought, like it or not, I would paraphrase what I once heard from Celibidache -- "The goal of music is not necessarily to be beautiful. It is, however, the ultimate truth." That is something like Bruckner's music. It is somewhat God-like because it represents sort of what is inhuman; not down-to-earth, instead of the more human qualities of a Chopin, Beethoven or Mahler. That is what makes Bruckner's music, for example, almost quite revelatory in ways.
I appreciate both gentlemen extremely and I have also observed their art, but please, hopefully the following parts are less monologue. In the end, Christoph Waltz got to the point, which I have been thinking about for myself for a very long time. The childlike innocence - I am now 54 - with which I began to love classical music and especially Beethoven as much as one can love from the age of 13, tears flowed when listening to his pieces and exuberant, overwhelming deep feelings came to light, the imagination a deep understanding with a devotion like a Werther shortly before his suicide, I miss this “carefree” depth of emotions today sometimes. And it was, just as Mr. Waltz put it, innocent and certainly still “little” knowing at the time, but therefore not less intense or less valuable, just a child with his enthusiasm. The extensive knowledge about and dealing with a piece can, like a poem in school, detach it from its magic when it is discussed. Like a piece that you have to listen to all the time in the chocolate or mobile phone advertising, something like that should actually be forbidden to protect the music and our person. I am probably a very typical Libra, if you can believe the zodiac sign here in the basic character. Greetings from Bonn, Germany.
hello pradas
💛
@Daniel Barenboim : please hear my french canadien supplications : Quelle plus beau chant du cygne pourriez vous chanter que la sonate de Julius Reubke? Pourquoi ne pas tout abandonner de la vie publique et vous vouer corps et âme pour une utilme dédicace à cette génération? Je me place devant vous les genoux au sol, en ces temps de confusion et d'aliénation générationnel... Je vous ai connu par mon père qui avait de vos enregistrements de Schubert dans les années 70, mais tout cela est derrière nous. La sonate de Reubke synthétise une expression ultime de l'oppression que subissent nos contemporains dans ce monde superficielle. Si Wagner à été perçu comme le chant du cygne de la décadence occidentale, Reubke ne demande qu'à être interprété par un maître de Beethoven tel que vous. Je m'humilie à l'extrême à vous supplier de vous plonger dans le texte de cette sonate. Ne serait-ce pas l'œuvre la plus abilité pour vous, à transmettre un dernier cri, un chant d'alarme pour les âmes qui sont victimes de l'abrutissement générationnelle? Je ne suis qu'un enfant de 47ans ayant un père né en 1931, et qui se meurt de voir notre cilivisation sécher dans le marasme du consumérisme. Monsieur Barenboim, considérez, malgré votre âge, de donner au monde cette sonate. Votre Tristan und Isolde de 1995 fut un moment historique pour porter jusqu'à nous le génie du 19eme siècle. Lisez le texte de la sonate de Reubke, je vous en supplie. Pour le reste et les raisons du pourquoi je vous supplie à ce point... Lisez le texte, je n'ai pas d'autres mots. C'est pour l'amour de la vie, c'est plus que la fatalité wagnériennes, je vous propose votre lègue ultime. Un chant du cygne ultime.
Je suis un simple père de 6 enfants, québécois. Paix à vous. frederic.pageau@yahoo.com (bien que je ne désire rien pour moi-même, voici mon adresse, pour prouver l'authenticité de ma suplication)
What is Waltz doing there? Barenboim could as well have had a monologue or a podcast for himself talking about music
It's a conversation. I know it's been a long year, but you should try it some time!
9:00
Daniel Barenboim what did you mean by musics arch enemy is routine????
What does music mean to me? A dream never to be reached! Yet, I like to listen to it. My consolation is that the big Freud was atone also.
Dear Maestro Daniel (from Buenos Aires) I agreed with you, I think was Stravinsky who said “Music must be seen “. Perhaps in that moments are what the “meaning “ comes to us.
yikes, he must of been nervous talking to the jew hunter...
bruh
Bravo!
YOU SHOULD MAKE A VIDEO ON THE PERSON THAT IS RELATED TO FRANZ LIST. HIS NAME IS MICHAEL ANDREAS.
I'm not particularly impressed by this Waltz guy. Rather Barenboim talk to other musicians or intellectuals in other fields.
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Worse still, career
Music means transcending oneself
In spanish please 🤷🏼♂️
The intro and outro piece names should be in the description :)
Diabelli Variations, Beethoven
Hans Landa and a Jewish...
Thank you thank you!!!
Or does.
Fantastic!!!
hello Daniel, very well said.
Golden Words
❤️ thank you
Love him!!!
What is the intro piece?
@M. Piedrasanta Thank you
Nonsense, why does the listener know nothing! This is the inverse of the Ashkenazy interview. Fasle dichotomy, expert expertise.
Barenboim is full of himself. I wonder if he was poor and didn’t go to school what kind of hobo he would have ended up being.
Barenboim eloquent, intelegent and interesting. Waltz just trying too hard to look and sound smart. Acting will not help you with this one boy