DB fantastic! Your summarizing the paradox of preparing and performing music is spot on!! “You need an excessive dose of modesty in trying to understand the piece...but then we walk on stage and you need an excessive amount of assurance...these two extremes are humanly not easy.”
First of all I want to express my gratitude to both of you for this extraordinary discussion. I feel as though I was very thirsty and I have drunk a glass of water and all is well again. I am a Zimbabwean from a society not cultured in western music. From an early age I developed an interest in western music whenever I heard it. I have become a self taught musician of western music. I have not performed any of my pieces in concerts because not many people at all have interest in it. And I appreciate what you said in the discussion that a musician must play not for impressing listeners but play because their very life depends on it. The musician cannot afford not play. I found that very profound. In public performances I play pop music covers but in private I play Bach, Mozart, and Beethoven and the satisfaction is better than the applause of the crowd. Thank you again.
Thank you, Maestro Barenboim for addressing the trend of superficiality. Far too often it seems like the marketing of an artist and how “showy” they perform is given precedence over what they deliver and communicate THROUGH the music. Excessive modesty when studying and excessive assurance when performing is a great explanation too.
This is the first of these conversations that I've listened to (certainly won't be the last!) Thank you for an exchange of ideas which seem both self-evident and a revelation at the same time. I've never had the pleasure of being in a live audience listening to Mr Barenboim (not for lack of trying) but his were the first recordings of Beethoven sonatas to expose me to that shock of enlightenment as a young teen, and 50 years later I can play a recording from among his many Beethoven cycles which does that to me all over again. Mr Barenboim's first HMV Beethoven sonata cycle is an emotional rollercoaster of one such shock after another (as are his later cycles). The musical insights of that impossibly young Barenboim still leave me gasping for breath! As an example, looking at the little Opus 54 sonata, nestled between two giants, one could read the 2nd movement as a finger exercise (sadly many have!)... until overwhelmed by the gentle romantic drama which Barenboim releases to your ears and mind.
An interesting point Mr Waltz spoke about is the actual approach of the music, may be with lot more marketing than before. We reach a point where pianists play faster and faster some masterpieces and unfortunately, we loose a lot of aspects like musicality, emotions, etc, etc... One exemple: Bach and his inventions. These are really interesting small pieces but there're most of the time played like simple studies: really too fast. Therefore you can't listen to the melody anymore. It looks instead like a marmelade of notes without no more emotions to feel...
Das war wirklich sehr lustig, besonders bei der Minute 2:45. Dieses Interview, wie viele anderen, die mir bereits bekannt sind, ist ein gutes Beispiel für die Bedeutungslosigkeit des Gesprächs im Vergleich zum Werk, das ein Mensch während seines ganzen Lebens erschafft hat, denn das Werk spricht ja immer für sich selbst und alles was man dazu sagt oder erwähnt ist nur Plauderei, die als Bestimmung nur, was Titeln, Ruf und Geld betriff, hat. Also, was der Philosophie angeht, ist die Wahrheit immer zwischen den Streiter und wenn einer der Beiden den anderen mit Gewagt dazu zwingt, die Stellung aufzugeben, redet man von dem Streit nicht mehr. Doch von den beiden hat jeder ein bisschen Recht. Und es ist üblich, dass derjenige, der mehr Recht als der andere hat, im Vergänglichen auch schneller untergeht. Doch nur im Vergänglichen. Schubert, Schumann, Mozart, Wagner, … sind gute Beispiele. Es sind durchaus nicht nur deutsche Musiker und Komponisten, die als Beispiel dienen, sondern auch Wissenschaftler, Künstler, Mahler, Historiker, Politiker, … der ganzen Welt, aber insbesondere diejenigen, die Deutsch waren. Es ist kein Zufall, dass die besten immer Deutsch gewesen sind, aber auch keine Regel, insbesondere Heute, da die Welt von den schlimmsten Kapitalisten zerstört worden ist. Bald kommt für alle das Ende auch im Vergänglichen und somit bleiben nur diejenigen, die im Vergänglichen Ewig sind.
We like barenboim's conducting style symphony of Beethoven and Mozart and Wagner and Tchaikovsky and French Carmen and others composer's symphony very much.
Excessive modesty and excessive confidence! - Obviously, this is also part of the magic through which Maestro Barenboim leads us to the composer, inside the music.
Is only my personal opinion, but I think Beethoven made a very detail “path” in his works, and you Maestro have to walk through, and invited the listeners to walk with you. But is your “soul” that conquest them, not Beethoven. Like an “actor” playing theater., Shakespeare is nothing without them. Please is only my humble opinion.
@DanielBarenboim I think, perhaps, the balance of excessive modesty in approach to playing the music and assuredness, or confidence, of going on stage and performing is to approach things as a child does: unselfconsciously. Hmmm… something like that, yes?
Even me and I am universes far away of being a professional musician. My succes and I am succesfull as a street musician is based on being with and in the music I do without any percentage looking for public effects.
I do not agree when Barenboim says you need both extremes. When I do serve in a non egoistic way the music it's alright. It's not a question of the moment, it's a question of my character. PS: it's true it's HUMANLY not easy, it's impossible, because the human being is eitel (I do not know the word in english, it's german)
You can't make a rule about appeances. Everything is possible. You can see an ugly fat old man go to the piano and produce miracles. Yoiu can see a beautiful and very affected young man or woman go to the piano and also produce miracles. The young Liszt was spectacularly affected on the stage but this did not detract from his musicality. It is what the fingers do that captivates you.
Mr. Waltz off track as before when he says,"You do all the work." The listener also has work to do, to concentrate on the music, what is hapopening in it, and to recreate this in his own mind. Most of the public is sadly lacking in musical education. Just to give one of many examples, I heard Radu Lupu giving a wonderful performance of Schumann's Davidsbuendler Dances. The friends next to me were glowing with enthusiasm and one got up and said, "And it all ends with a happy marriage." I asked, "Didn't you hear the sad W altz at the end that goies into darkness?" She hadn't. The happy marriage was the mock Finale in a minor key which poreceded this.
Clara Schumnann was a very popular pianist. In later years she wrote in her diary, "Who of those people who applaud me so much understand the music I am playing?"£ her sad answer was "No-one." I think she was exaggerating but there is some truth and what she thought.
@@felixdevilliers1 Interesting comment. Then again you could say Clara schumann didn't understand much about music herself. She certainly was a brilliant player and underrated composer. Yet she called liszts sonata "blind noise". A piece that is nowadays considered one of the most important pieces of the romantic era. I hope my comment makes any sense. What I want to get across, is that in fact knowledge, appreciation and understanding of music will always vary across time, culture and lastly across the human mind.
@@leonardmartin6048 -Your remark about Clara Schuamnn is absurd You should see the essay Liszt wrote about her playing. He was over the moon about her musicality. So was Chopin who said, "She is the only woman in Germany who can play my music." To a friend who asked about Clara, Chopin wrote, "Nothing better exists." The Mendelssohns, Felix and Fanny were swept off their feet by her perfromances. When they were together at a private gathering, Mendelssohn played the Beethoven Appassionata,stopped at the end of the second moivement anf insisted that Clara play the last one. Her playing of the greats from Bach and Beethiven oinwards was apparently sublime I don't want to take up too much space here with descriptions of which there are plenty But Leonard are you not aware of the fact that people have their prejudices? Chopin thoroughly disliked both Schumann and Liszt and late Beethoven. This certainly doesn't justify anyone saying he didn't know much about music. Wagner disliked both Schumann and Brahms. Oscar Wilde wrote that it was right for such artists to be prejudiiced against each other because they were so involved in following their own path. I love the way great conposers exclude each other when I listen to their works. Among the greats Schumann and Liszt were the two who were more generous about other composers. I thought I disliked Liszt until I heard Barenboim play that Sonata. I find it sad that the Schumanns didn't appreciate Liszt's music more. They complained about continual tinkling in high registers and growling in low regusters and didn't hear how infinitely moving Liszt's middle voices can be.
@@felixdevilliers1 Im sorry for making an absurd statement. Im fully aware about how incredibly capable Clara schumann must have been. Probably more capable than Robert, at least she is said to be more successful on several concert occasions. However I thought her comment about the liszt sonata showed that even in the past prejudice and preference caused to leave out some gems of music or to not appreciate them. Im just 23 years old, I guess I don't know too much about all of the music history (even though I study normal history in university and visited a music school). But in playing piano - which I do for 18 years - I have seen my very own prejudices getting stronger. I used to play a lot of Bach and beethoven as my great music teacher told me too. Now that im an Autodidakt i want to learn liszt. He just fascinates me, I love for example to play hungarian rhapsody no 6 or his liebestraum no 3 and I'm mind blown whenever I listen to Cziffra or Trifonov playing for example a transcendental etude. So I guess I'm part of the problem u described
@@leonardmartin6048 - i think it is wonderful that you are enjoying Liszt so much. I also do. i also played the Liebestraum, no. 3. A woman sitting next to me told me she knew a professor who said that the Romantics were wonderful but that Liszt made the moon sing
What is your favourite quote from this episode?
"And then... and then..." - Christoph Waltz
Definitely Mr. Fischer Dieskau's "We'll bring the 27th row to us on the stage"
"You need an excessive dose of modesty learning the piece."
Yes, Sensei.
DB fantastic! Your summarizing the paradox of preparing and performing music is spot on!! “You need an excessive dose of modesty in trying to understand the piece...but then we walk on stage and you need an excessive amount of assurance...these two extremes are humanly not easy.”
Christoph Waltz - "you did the work for me, because I get the shock".
First of all I want to express my gratitude to both of you for this extraordinary discussion. I feel as though I was very thirsty and I have drunk a glass of water and all is well again. I am a Zimbabwean from a society not cultured in western music. From an early age I developed an interest in western music whenever I heard it. I have become a self taught musician of western music. I have not performed any of my pieces in concerts because not many people at all have interest in it. And I appreciate what you said in the discussion that a musician must play not for impressing listeners but play because their very life depends on it. The musician cannot afford not play. I found that very profound. In public performances I play pop music covers but in private I play Bach, Mozart, and Beethoven and the satisfaction is better than the applause of the crowd. Thank you again.
Daniel understands the heart of the piece for his detailed analysis... True músical genius
Thank you, Maestro Barenboim for addressing the trend of superficiality. Far too often it seems like the marketing of an artist and how “showy” they perform is given precedence over what they deliver and communicate THROUGH the music. Excessive modesty when studying and excessive assurance when performing is a great explanation too.
This is the first of these conversations that I've listened to (certainly won't be the last!)
Thank you for an exchange of ideas which seem both self-evident and a revelation at the same time. I've never had the pleasure of being in a live audience listening to Mr Barenboim (not for lack of trying) but his were the first recordings of Beethoven sonatas to expose me to that shock of enlightenment as a young teen, and 50 years later I can play a recording from among his many Beethoven cycles which does that to me all over again.
Mr Barenboim's first HMV Beethoven sonata cycle is an emotional rollercoaster of one such shock after another (as are his later cycles). The musical insights of that impossibly young Barenboim still leave me gasping for breath! As an example, looking at the little Opus 54 sonata, nestled between two giants, one could read the 2nd movement as a finger exercise (sadly many have!)... until overwhelmed by the gentle romantic drama which Barenboim releases to your ears and mind.
To me he is one of the greatest pianists ever. I listen to him every night to help me unwind and get my mind ready for sleep.
C’est prétentieux de donner son avis au sujet du discours d’un génie comme Barenboim, j’ose toute de même dire ma gratitude.
Oh yes we get the shock with you Daniel Barenboim !!
This is the interview I never knew that I always needed!
Hermosa charla! muy didactica y profunda. Gracias a ambos!.
Thank you very much for this! It was very interesting to listen to.
amazing conversation! a masterclass for every artist and performer.thank You Maestro, you are always such an ispiration .
To understand the emotional shock intellectually! - it's part of the performer's magic.
Maestro Barenboim necesitamos subtítulos en español, por favor, conversaciones tan valiosas como esta deben llegar a los países hispanoparlantes.
Hay una alternativa hasta entonces: elegir uno de los subtítulos disponibles y poner la opción "Traducir automáticamente"
Thank you again and again!!
An interesting point Mr Waltz spoke about is the actual approach of the music, may be with lot more marketing than before. We reach a point where pianists play faster and faster some masterpieces and unfortunately, we loose a lot of aspects like musicality, emotions, etc, etc... One exemple: Bach and his inventions. These are really interesting small pieces but there're most of the time played like simple studies: really too fast. Therefore you can't listen to the melody anymore. It looks instead like a marmelade of notes without no more emotions to feel...
First reaction: shock
Shock beceeeeuz, in aur maind,...
Das war wirklich sehr lustig, besonders bei der Minute 2:45.
Dieses Interview, wie viele anderen, die mir bereits bekannt sind, ist ein gutes Beispiel für die Bedeutungslosigkeit des Gesprächs im Vergleich zum Werk, das ein Mensch während seines ganzen Lebens erschafft hat, denn das Werk spricht ja immer für sich selbst und alles was man dazu sagt oder erwähnt ist nur Plauderei, die als Bestimmung nur, was Titeln, Ruf und Geld betriff, hat.
Also, was der Philosophie angeht, ist die Wahrheit immer zwischen den Streiter und wenn einer der Beiden den anderen mit Gewagt dazu zwingt, die Stellung aufzugeben, redet man von dem Streit nicht mehr. Doch von den beiden hat jeder ein bisschen Recht. Und es ist üblich, dass derjenige, der mehr Recht als der andere hat, im Vergänglichen auch schneller untergeht. Doch nur im Vergänglichen.
Schubert, Schumann, Mozart, Wagner, … sind gute Beispiele.
Es sind durchaus nicht nur deutsche Musiker und Komponisten, die als Beispiel dienen, sondern auch Wissenschaftler, Künstler, Mahler, Historiker, Politiker, … der ganzen Welt, aber insbesondere diejenigen, die Deutsch waren.
Es ist kein Zufall, dass die besten immer Deutsch gewesen sind, aber auch keine Regel, insbesondere Heute, da die Welt von den schlimmsten Kapitalisten zerstört worden ist. Bald kommt für alle das Ende auch im Vergänglichen und somit bleiben nur diejenigen, die im Vergänglichen Ewig sind.
Oh, Dios mío cuánta verdad Maestro!!!
The great magician Daniel Barenboim!
Amazing Interviú as Always!
Thanks!
BACH shows us with every single composition how it works. EVERY single composition is signed with the words "Solo Deo gloria"
THAT'S THE point 😉😉😘😘
Thank you for this great inspiration 💜
We like barenboim's conducting style symphony of Beethoven and Mozart and Wagner and Tchaikovsky and French Carmen and others composer's symphony very much.
Excessive modesty and excessive confidence! - Obviously, this is also part of the magic through which Maestro Barenboim leads us to the composer, inside the music.
Christoph. Have we come to the end on the Canon?
Is only my personal opinion, but I think Beethoven made a very detail “path” in his works, and you Maestro have to walk through, and invited the listeners to walk with you. But is your “soul” that conquest them, not Beethoven. Like an “actor” playing theater., Shakespeare is nothing without them. Please is only my humble opinion.
en mi caso me resulta muy fácil participar y sentirme transportada a ese mundo tan enriquecedor que nos proporciona y nos une que es
el fenómeno musical
heureusement qu'il existe une traduction. Cette conversation est des plus intéressante.
Podrían traducir porfavor para toda Latinoamérica!!!
The goal of music is to be shared
👌👏👏👏
The main point is, is there only technic or is there music in the air?
Incredible, Christoph Waltz's musical appreciations much more interesting than Barenboim's.
Wie gehen sie mit Tristan und Isolde um?
@DanielBarenboim I think, perhaps, the balance of excessive modesty in approach to playing the music and assuredness, or confidence, of going on stage and performing is to approach things as a child does: unselfconsciously. Hmmm… something like that, yes?
❤
❤️
Even me and I am universes far away of being a professional musician. My succes and I am succesfull as a street musician is based on being with and in the music I do without any percentage looking for public effects.
I do not agree when Barenboim says you need both extremes. When I do serve in a non egoistic way the music it's alright. It's not a question of the moment, it's a question of my character. PS: it's true it's HUMANLY not easy, it's impossible, because the human being is eitel (I do not know the word in english, it's german)
Listening music is far better than listening this art of speaking english about playing music.
Playback speed 1.75x
That was good advice!;-)
You can't make a rule about appeances. Everything is possible. You can see an ugly fat old man go to the piano and produce miracles. Yoiu can see a beautiful and very affected young man or woman go to the piano and also produce miracles. The young Liszt was spectacularly affected on the stage but this did not detract from his musicality. It is what the fingers do that captivates you.
Mr. Waltz off track as before when he says,"You do all the work." The listener also has work to do, to concentrate on the music, what is hapopening in it, and to recreate this in his own mind. Most of the public is sadly lacking in musical education. Just to give one of many examples, I heard Radu Lupu giving a wonderful performance of Schumann's Davidsbuendler Dances. The friends next to me were glowing with enthusiasm and one got up and said, "And it all ends with a happy marriage." I asked, "Didn't you hear the sad W altz at the end that goies into darkness?" She hadn't. The happy marriage was the mock Finale in a minor key which poreceded this.
Clara Schumnann was a very popular pianist. In later years she wrote in her diary, "Who of those people who applaud me so much understand the music I am playing?"£ her sad answer was "No-one." I think she was exaggerating but there is some truth and what she thought.
@@felixdevilliers1 Interesting comment. Then again you could say Clara schumann didn't understand much about music herself. She certainly was a brilliant player and underrated composer. Yet she called liszts sonata "blind noise". A piece that is nowadays considered one of the most important pieces of the romantic era. I hope my comment makes any sense. What I want to get across, is that in fact knowledge, appreciation and understanding of music will always vary across time, culture and lastly across the human mind.
@@leonardmartin6048 -Your remark about Clara Schuamnn is absurd You should see the essay Liszt wrote about her playing. He was over the moon about her musicality. So was Chopin who said, "She is the only woman in Germany who can play my music." To a friend who asked about Clara, Chopin wrote, "Nothing better exists." The Mendelssohns, Felix and Fanny were swept off their feet by her perfromances. When they were together at a private gathering, Mendelssohn played the Beethoven Appassionata,stopped at the end of the second moivement anf insisted that Clara play the last one. Her playing of the greats from Bach and Beethiven oinwards was apparently sublime I don't want to take up too much space here with descriptions of which there are plenty
But Leonard are you not aware of the fact that people have their prejudices? Chopin thoroughly disliked both Schumann and Liszt and late Beethoven. This certainly doesn't justify anyone saying he didn't know much about music. Wagner disliked both Schumann and Brahms.
Oscar Wilde wrote that it was right for such artists to be prejudiiced against each other because they were so involved in following their own path. I love the way great conposers exclude each other when I listen to their works. Among the greats Schumann and Liszt were the two who were more generous about other composers.
I thought I disliked Liszt until I heard Barenboim play that Sonata.
I find it sad that the Schumanns didn't appreciate Liszt's music more. They complained about continual tinkling in high registers and growling in low regusters and didn't hear how infinitely moving Liszt's middle voices can be.
@@felixdevilliers1 Im sorry for making an absurd statement. Im fully aware about how incredibly capable Clara schumann must have been. Probably more capable than Robert, at least she is said to be more successful on several concert occasions. However I thought her comment about the liszt sonata showed that even in the past prejudice and preference caused to leave out some gems of music or to not appreciate them.
Im just 23 years old, I guess I don't know too much about all of the music history (even though I study normal history in university and visited a music school). But in playing piano - which I do for 18 years - I have seen my very own prejudices getting stronger. I used to play a lot of Bach and beethoven as my great music teacher told me too. Now that im an Autodidakt i want to learn liszt. He just fascinates me, I love for example to play hungarian rhapsody no 6 or his liebestraum no 3 and I'm mind blown whenever I listen to Cziffra or Trifonov playing for example a transcendental etude. So I guess I'm part of the problem u described
@@leonardmartin6048 - i think it is wonderful that you are enjoying Liszt so much. I also do. i also played the Liebestraum, no. 3. A woman sitting next to me told me she knew a professor who said that the Romantics were wonderful but that Liszt made the moon sing
Out of spite that he made it difficult ? I don't think so....
Talking in riddles for their own amusement
Bzw. mit musikalischen Verweigerern oder Wagner Leugnern die kann man ja alle nicht ernst nehmen!?