"Quick" Ashfur Addendum
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- Опубликовано: 3 окт 2024
- I've gone through and removed some recent comments about Ashfur being better than Brambleclaw from my other video in preparation for posting this one, so don't worry if you've recently, uh, expressed the sentiment that inspired this video over there.
I wanted to make tis months ago, but put it off because of the anger and hateful messages I received for Bramblestar is Worse.
Correction: Goldenflower lives past Starlight. Bramblestar is the only warrior cat allotted a mother
Yeah but she dies off screen and never has any screen time with her son even though Warriors has now put an emphasis on family relations sooooo.
It's like she might as well be dead.
What about Frostfur?
@@WonderOfAnArachnid. Yeah, with Speckletail, Loudbelly, and Shadepelt
what about sandstorm?
@@wolfie8954 not a warrior at the start of the books
"bumblestripe & ashfur have something else in common"
ah yes they're both grey
*That’s what I said*
They both didnt talk about their feelings being hurt? Idk i never read the books ;w;
Dovewing 🤝 Squirrelflight
Having green eyes
I thought that said gay
I thought you said
“ah yes they’re both gay”
I spent like 5 minutes of this trying to decide what was wrong with the Ashfur until i realised he had no blonde hair.
ive been trying to figure out why she didn't give him the hair too
@@sapphanimates
I guess it was meant to be more serious :,)
@@StinginqNettle ':)
"the ashfur" omg
“I’m a 28 year old woman who doesn’t have any dental insurance and make warrior cat videos” -moonkitti 2021
Feel like people forget that shes a person
@@RingoA yeah, it’s really sad.
@@Rain_fawn
It is. Seems like most forget that we are all humans.
Same
could be worst lol
Having a guy try to murder your kids and torture you because you rejected him, only to come back after he died as a ghost by possessing your husband is straight up the plot of a horror novel.
Yeah like dude...it's been years at this point. Move on pls.
It's rlly just annoying, I agree with you
I agree completely.
Like??
“Who’s the better choice?”
Shrewpaw. It’s always Shrewpaw.
poor dude was taken out by Starclan since they knew he would have been Squilf's only healthy relationship
@@slashercat8649 he got nerfed just for her character arc
Or Crowfeather sorry I live for an au like that now lol
@@slashercat8649 I bet you were met at firestar for bringing back sky clan
@@starvoltnexus3139 also a better option
Squirrelflight doesn’t need a mate, she needs some damn respect
She needs to go climb a mountain to get away from everyone.
Squirrelflight sucks
@@ENTP2323 For being in an abusive relationship that wasn't her fault? Yeah right.
@@VisceralFossa for existing
@@ENTP2323 Haha very funny
If Ashfur had gotten with Squirrelflight, he would probably have reacted EXTREMELY badly and violently to discovering that she'd hidden Jay, Holly and Lion's true parentage from him.
oh yeah totally
Is it just me
Or does, jay, lion, and holly look more believable as squirrelflights and ashfurs kits
Then squireelflights and brambleclaws kits 👀
I mainly say this because of jayfeather
@@Peikkey yeah they do. lionblaze could've gotten his looks from firestar (which he probably did) idk where hollyleaf would've tho
@@ashie7261 The tiny evil kitty man forgot his name
@@ashie7261 Hollyleaf probably got her black fur from Crowfeather. But then again, Scourge was a black cat. And Scourge was Firestar's half brother. So it's possible she got it from him
Imagine how different the whole series would be if shrewpaw was still alive
Who?
@@golden_cheese_cookie1562 Shrewpaw, some apprentice who died and would have been a better mate to Squirrelflight if he was alive.
@@stuffshadow528 SOMEONE NEEDS TO MAKE A SHREW AND SQUIRREL AU NOW!!
i’ve been writing a squirrel x shrew fanfic forever
Seriously, Shrew and Squilf had such a nice relationship!! I wish the Erins didn’t kill him off, they would’ve been wonderful together
I was an Ashfur apologist for a while, and I still like him more than Brambleclaw, but honestly both of the dudes were bad for Squilf. Once the Erins had to make him try to kill 4 cats to make him worse is when I stopped being invested at all.
AshFur is way better than Brambleclaw though
@@snowherd2457 HOW
@@snowherd2457 In what way? He's much more intresting as a character espically in the new arc
Yeah ashfurs at least an interesting villian (plus his abusive ways were meant to be seen as abusive while Bramblestar is abusive without the Erin’s knowledge somehow)
I was also one to also believe Ashfur was “better” then Bramblestar when I was younger. It definitely shows young children aren’t able to tell what’s abusive and what’s natural, it’s really sad and kinda scary that many kids believe that it was natural for both cats to act that way
I prefer single Squirrelflight over Squirrelflight with Ashfur or Bramblestar but the timeline would be messed up if she never got in a romantic relationship
Edit: I just realized that squirrelflight could claim the 3 as her own even without a mate because in arc 1 it's stated at some point that the queens can decide whether to reveal the father of their kits or not.
Just don't make Squilf go through these guys jeez
AU where Squirrel joins the sister and dates Moonlight
@@Addiebella Yes
Tawnypelt x Squirrelf 😎👍
Shrewsquirrel or SingleSquirrel is the best option honestly, completely unproblematic with anything. Squilfdaisy maybe, but I don't know if Daisy would want a mate anymore.
The drawings don’t have Ashfurs blond hair and it’s seriously disorienting
What if it’s a wig?…
@@thishuman1621 HE NEEDS TO PUT IT BACK ON
EXACTLY
@@thishuman1621 DUN DUN DUNNN
Or anime hair
I'm sorry for the harassment but I really wanna say, your bramblestar is worse video made me realise my ex was abusive and inspired me to take the steps to get away. 10 months later and I feel so much happier and am doing far better, even if it brought an onslaught of twitter drama I'm so grateful you posted it :]
I feel the need to add that on the Warrior Cats Reddit Discord, discussion of 'Bramblestar is Worse' was banned because of arguments apparently, It doesn't help that an Administrator named 'Bramble Stan' might be the person who made that Rule, it *might* of come from there.
I tried to look for the Argument, I could not find them, and I've discussed the Video in the past (More then once) and no Arguments have come of it, infact, we had an argument/discussion about whether or not Ashfur is a Incel or a Simp. And nobody batted an Eyelash (Everyone came to the realization that Ashfur was a Simp.) And nobody really cared.
It doesn't help, and it's really unhealthy when you agree with what a villain does, it shows who you are as a person, and seeing as Moonkitti's video shows with little doubt that Bramblestar is a bad person, it doesn't help that his 'Stans' aren't that much better.
Warrior cats videos can save lives
I'm so happy for you!
@@isabellp.5730 thank you
Omg it did the same thing for me, hope youre doing better now :)
There isn’t anything wrong with liking morally bad characters, as long as you don’t try to justify their actions. There are plenty of fictional villains that I absolutely adore, but that doesn’t mean what they did was okay. There isn’t anything wrong with liking Ashfur or Bramblestar, as long as you acknowledge that their canonical treatment of Squirrelflight was not okay.
Agreed
fucking THANK YOU
I wish people said this about Mapleshade... I'm sick of people justifying her actions but I think she's an awesome villain.
Yea. I honestly like ash more than bramble. But ash was bad. Bramble was bad leader and mate. (Just my opinion. I dont really want any replies cuz i know theyre both bad)
Exactly, thanks
Some characters are awesome _characters,_ and as long as you don’t think that what they did was good, it’s fine to like them
“So Brambleclaw now that we’re even do you wanna date me?”
I like this, this is funny.
they're both bad mates so it would be interesting to see how that would work out
Though it's nice to imagine a world like that where nothing goes wrong and everything works out non the less
Considering the bramble star is like it when his temper flares I see that ending with Ashfur disemboweled
toxic yaoi
Can we all just stop trying to decide if Squilf’s psychotic uncle or abusive jock boyfriend would be better and ship squirrelshrew
Shrewflight?
Idk
yeah I hate both of them
I ship Squirrelflight X Good mental health
@@janeoathdragon5793 the best Squilf ship✨
i was about to make a joke about Ashfurs mom being killed by a pack of Dalmations as his tragic backstory before I remembered that's almost exactly what actually happened
he’s the female joker holy shit
@@deerprynce joker, Cruella da Ville (he has nice hair), Hal from megamind. My mans everywhere
@@slashercat8649
spoilers ig
he also has notes of Simon from infinity train
Not exactly, Bluestar was the one that got pushed off a cliff by dogs but Ashfur's mom was killed by Tigerstar
Singing killed his grandma okay
Ashfur is a great example of “breaking up with your Roblox girlfriend and hearing your uncle cry in the other room”
@@TheSlipperyNUwUdle 🤦♀️
But like aren’t all those cats distantly related that’s a yikes.
I love Ashfur as a character. he's a trashbag, but he's SO interesting to read about and causes great drama. He needs to stay away from Squilf. :) And yes I wish Bramblestar would actually get called out on his bull. It sometimes gets referenced, but they'll brush over it.
A+ video! Love the Ashfur art tho omg his big uwu face
Agreed. My own personal head cannons that Bramblestar is not aware of how bad his actions towards Squilf are
I know, he’s a brilliant villain, as long as people see him AS a villain
TBH the reason Bramblestar does shitty things and isn't called out on them is probably because of bad writing.
same!!! i love ashfur, i get tyat hes a total peice of crap though
It’s almost as if people trying to moralize why they like or dislike characters is really counterproductive and harmful. It’s okay to just like the characters you enjoy, warts and all. 👍
Hawkfrost is my favorite character but yeah he’s a terrible little fruity man
Couldn't have said it better myself
Exactly, as a pro-Zeon Gundam fan I know this well.
Exactly. Like no one likes the JOKER because hes a GOOD GUY 😂 liking a villain is fine everyone has top 10 villains and they live for marvel writing their villains with more complexity instead of being one note but LIKING a villain and agreeing with them are two separate things
Looks away at me liking ashfur, but not because of his current actions, just because he's super memorable and I loved all the amvs he has/ had
Squirrelflight and Dovewing both deserve better. The fandom treats them like crap because Dove has a power she never asked for and is basically a burt out gifted kid while Squirrel is seen as evil for being in an abusive relationship 🙄
i relate to dovewing too heavily as a burnt out gifted kid
Dovewing is still recovering from fandom treatment. When I reread OOTS it really disturbed me how Ivypool pretty much would do anything to hurt Dovewing out of spite. I am so glad Dovewing left to join ShadowClan and be with the cat she wanted. Bumblestripe constantly pushing for a girl who doesn’t love him is gross. My girl Dovewing deserved better.
I just find Dovewing to be an insipide and dumb character. Sorry.
Okay, probable crack ship, *Dove’flight*
@@Synchronisedstumbling _no_
Ashfur never loved too much, he hated too much. He told Squirrelflight "my quarrel is with you." He said he wanted her to hurt because she didn't love him. He hated her for not dating him. He hated too much. He resented her for years while the Three grew up. She moved on and he didn't. If Ashfur and Squirrelflight dated, and the truth came out, Ashfur would have become very violent.
@BlueGoldGacha Literally. He didn't still love her. He hated her! He wanted her to hurt because he was hurt by the breakup. If you actually love somebody, you aren't willing to kill people they care about just so they have to go through the pain of loss, all because you were hurt by the breakup. It wasn't even a long term relationship. He just couldn't (or wouldn't) think of anything else and move on. He felt anger and pain seeing Squilf and "her" kits with "Brambleclaw" because he couldn't let go of the bitterness in his heart. What he tried to do to Firestar by conspiring with Hawkfrost was terrible, but at the very least, the breakup was recent. The fire scene shows how much resentment and hatred was truly in his heart, to spend so much time being angry and never letting go that he still hated Squirrelflight after the Three were born and grew up.
On behalf of all OG Warriors fans, we would not like to be reminded that The Broken Code is basically entirely Yellowfang's fault for not kicking Ashfur's ass into the Dark Forest.
they need to get Hollyleaf to come down from cat heaven and smite him where he stands
I'm convinced that Yellowfang has been replaced by an evil clone of herself somewhere in arc 3.
@@slashercat8649 ngl that would be awesome if hollyleaf killed ashfur again
@@clawcakes my man spoilers ahead..
She is dead forever because of hawkfrost
@@kyong-jae no. i am erin hunter i make the rules
Ashfur possessing Bramblestar to GET with Squirrelflight IS THE SAME LEVEL OF CREEPY as WONDER WOMAN sleeping with SOME GUY who is WEARING THE FACE OF HER BOYFRIEND.
Period. Point blank.
Ashfur is a creepy SOB "nice guy" thats all there is to it.
Omg that movie was amazing tho it was like a care bears movie on crack lol
@@finnsnow2495 i loved it for how like....INSANE it was but THAT is just gross. Imagine if it was a guy, using a woman to get with his dead girlfriend. People would lose their minds.
@@TheRibottoStudios True I cant help but think the writer or director was just trolling to get a reaction espically by the ending. Either way it was a pocket of insanity and I don't think anyone took it seriously. Even so I'd like to hear the actual reason they wrote that into he script because it's so unnessiary
@@finnsnow2495 Eh, romance probably. I doubt the producers put any thought into it. It’s one of those things that takes a bit of critical thinking; I didn’t even notice that until other people mentioned it.
How long after the great battle does this happen???!
I’ve unfortunately had many run-ins with Ashfur apologists. Saying he just “made a small mistake” and whatnot.
All the times I’ve had to deal with them, I’ve had to put it in the perspective of people to try to tell people how BAD this cat was.
Like, imagine if these weren’t cats. Some dude is jealous because the person he liked is dating someone else. She then has three children. In rage, the man breaks into their house, sets fire to it, and tries/threatens to kill her and the three children trying to escape the house fire.
Ashfur’s actions were never good, and as someone who had to put up with my abuser’s actions being seen as “little oopsies” and being told “it’s just tough love” really strikes a nerve. Like yeah these are fictional cats but it has potential dangerous real life consequences if you defend that sort of behavior, even in fiction.
Just adding my own experience with Ashfur apologists who have gotten upset with me for saying he’s bad lol
I know most of them are children, so I try really hard not to engage in any conversations I see about Ashfur just making little misguided mistakes.
Yes, but as Moonkitti said, he is a great villian!
@@talkingfez1265 Yes, I very much agree. I only have issues with those who think he did nothing wrong.
He’s a typical ‘nice’ guy. He acts all sweet, and then as soon as he’s rejected, his true colours show. And if you say yes to a nice guy..
@@thishuman1621 Yes, he absolutely falls under that category
Moonkitti! It's horrible to hear what was happening to you after the Bramblestar vid and I want you to know - you quite possibly saved my life with it. I am a few years older than you are now, and I was just on the verge of breaking free from my 7 year relationship when your Bramblestar vid went live. If not for that vid, I don't think I could have broken free. I have to go light on the details because it's STILL ongoing to do this day (but now I have help from the courts to protect me at least!) but had it not been for your "dumb cat video" I don't think I would ever have seen what was really happening. . It was YOUR video that gave me a way to process what was going on. It was your video about fictional cat relationships that let me hold me own experience at enough 'distance' to recognise things like the cycle of abuse in action. I can't count the number of times I've re-watched it.
THANK YOU.
I suspect those who are harassing you have never truly seen these same dynamics play out, and what REALLY happens in real life as a result of them. I hope it gives you a little strength to know that however many petty harassments you are getting, I have NO doubt I am not the only one for whom that video was life-altering.
good luck!! so proud of you for breaking free
Yes, I feel bad for Moonkitti.
Congrats!! Good luck, and I hope you’re doing alright
Message to Moonkitti: Don't let other people make you feel bad if their logic is worse than yours! People love you! Just like urbanvixen! Helping the world in a small way, your fanness! Keep up the work!
I would love an hour long video of sexism and gender roles in Warriors books. That aside, this was a good video.
given how much harrassment moonkitti got after the bramble bad video, that may only insight more harrassment. but yes, i agree that this is a good video. also i'm not trying to be passive aggressive or anything, sorry if i came off that way.
@@glucosegremlin7972 No problem. I completely understand how making such a video could cause more negative reactions.
yes please
honestly I’d love for a large content creator to tackle issues like misogyny, racism, and ableism in Warriors but the way people act when someone criticizes minor aspects of the books is just…insane
@@deerprynce yeah.
I can't believe anyone would want to harass Moon. She's so talented, and deserves only love and respect from her fans.
@Cornbread why does that person sound more ablest?
@There's Corn in my Bread, help yes, cause its normal for an autistic person to commit multiple attempted murders because of a hot girl
@@tawnypelt69420 I have autism and what the actual hell was that person taking about lmao
@There's Corn in my Bread, help damn, y’know what’s ableist? Not holding autistic people responsible for their actions because “oh they can’t help it, they’re just like that uwu”
@There's Corn in my Bread, help I'm Autistic and have medical trauma and I see this used in a bunch of media, the same can be applied to people thinking SU is an accurate portrayal to PTSD because "everyone experiences it differently". There's a difference to "experiencing it differently" and a literal copy-pasted horribly inaccurate fear-mongering stereotype that's been around since the 1930s.
I seriously hated the fandom for demonizing the female characters for deciding not to be with someone romantically. It made me seriously afraid for how other women and I would be treated in real life for similar things.
And now people simp for Mapleshade instead.
Hum, no one does that. I've seen no one doing this. And if female characters are hated, it's either for stupid reasons unrelated to this (which, I agree, is still bad) or hate characters for actually good reasons (cough, Rainflower)
@@vixxdaemon3874 just because you haven’t seen it happen, doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. Thankfully the fandom has changed a lot for the better, but there was a lot of people that hated Squirrelflight back in the day for rejecting Ashfur.
Can you give some examples of this happening with characters other than Squirrelflight?
@@Keznen Dovewing and Bluestar
I apologize for everyone who gave you rude comments for Bramblestar is worse. I agree with your opinions and I apologize for the people who have opinions on Bramblestar that differ than yours and have expressed that in rude ways. Again. Sorry. And also thank you very much for such an entertaining and insightful perspective on Bramblestar and Ashfur.
I was one of those rude commenters I apologize
I wanted to write something, but stopped. Bcs I understood right in time, that having alternative opinion on some of the chapters showed in Moon's video and starting conversation about in comments under this video would lead to nothing
So I had a nice dialog with some people who have the same opinion as mine, kinda cried about everyone hating my comfort character and tried to move on👍
Ashfur be like:
"There is no Easter Bunny, there is no Tooth Fairy, AND THERE IS NO QUEEN OF ENGLAND"
megamind ref?
incel team-up
@@arythest397 indeed
Imagine if someone rewrote the fire scene to be that scene from Megamind XD
@@coffeewolfproductions9113 if someone doesn't animate it, i will
I want a she-cat that just wants high authority and respect. Some cat could hit on her, and she states she doesn't want a family. Maybe her parents or sibling says she should have kits and settle down for a while, but it just makes her drive to work more. Asexual cats for the win!
The only cat that vaguely fits that is Leopardstar, but then people like to joke she was in love with Tigerstar smh.
hollyleaf?
magneticsharks Isn't it confirmed in the ultimate guide that she did love tigerstar though
LOUSWE FOR THE PEOPE IN THE BACK
Aromantic cats for the win! :D
4 series. FOUR SERIES SINCE ASHFUR AND BRAMBLECLAW’S RIVALRY? and he still wants revenge. Yeah, Ashfur is crazy.
Dude needs a hobby
@@TDIdialgagirl No kidding XD
@@TDIdialgagirl Hey! I do have a hobby twoleg! Going to the hair salon 🙄
Honestly I think the Warrior Cats books are pretty toxic. Between the blatant sexism against female characters and the piss poor handling of serious issues like mental illness and abusive behaviors, the books are perpetuating a lot of terrible messages for kids, and it's the main reason I've almost completely rejected reading any more of the books. Now I don't want to accuse the writers or the editing team of purposefully putting in these problematic aspects due to their own beliefs, but they really should be more aware of how they portray these things in the books themselves. It could just be a coincidental symptom of poor writing, though the fact that the writers fail to fix or even acknowledge these issues is what makes me suspicious of their true intentions. Idk this is just how I feel.
I feel like it’s worth pointing out that the books have abt 20 writers who basically don’t communicate and aren’t allowed to deviate from the outline that Harper Collins gives them so yeah. This is definitely just. A byproduct of poor communication and people who don’t care controlling the story.
@@pharoahcaraboo9610 Jesus I didn't know they had 20 writers for these things! But with that in mind, I actually watched a video where this woman explained that the books weren't intended to be a long running series. Apparently, the original hunters were just aiming to write one book about a society of feral cats, but realized that the amount of details they wanted to add in would be too much for one story. So they stretched it out into a six book series. This kinda tells me that the books weren't even written with a clear plan/ real interesting story to tell. The books (originally) were more about outlining an interesting concept, instead of portraying an intricate world or 3 dimensional characters. Now take the previous sentence with a grain of salt, but yeah that's what I think.
Don't forget about the abuse towards disabled characters!
@@janeoathdragon5793 O god yeah I almost forgot! I think the one instance of ableism that pisses me off the most is Alderheart. From the way he was treated by his mentor to him being forced into the med job really presented a toxic stereotype of people with anxiety. Along with the fact that his anxious nature just vanished without any real development also perpetuates the idea that anxious people/people with anxiety issues are useless to society and are too high strung and indecisive to make their own decisions. As someone with anxiety disorder, it felt almost like an insult, and really displays just how little the writers/ the team really care anymore. It's pretty callous in my opinion, and it's sad I don't see more people complaining about how Alder should have stayed a warrior compared to Jayfeather.
I think that having several authors and consequently a lack of clear vision results in storytelling that reflects the ideas that exist in our current society- many of them subconsciously when they’re written into books. This has the ability to really reinforce the status quo, but it also give us the opportunity as adults to recognize and share with others parts of our society that need to be recognized and changed. We need to continue to make videos like this one and leave comments like yours, so the younger impressionable people getting into the series from RUclips understand how damaging it is that the clans treat ‘different’ cats like they do.
Even Warriors who seem beacons of the opposite are still playing inside the lines. Bluestar who fiercely defended her clan as a deputy instead of settling down to be the queen her clan expected, still was forced to give up her kits to get the job when she desperately wanted to have them. Jayfeather may be blind, but he also has super powers that allow him to see and go back in time? The hardest part is because there’s always the question: these are wild cats, living in a hostile environment, not humans. Briarlight missing an eye, for example, is actually pretty important for depth perception. But when there are millions of young adults identifying with your characters, you have an obligation not to put them in a harmful state of mind.
I stopped purchasing warriors because I fell out of the series around the same time I physically ran out of space- and became invested in other stories. And it was roght at the end of the so called ‘great battle’ so the books felt over too. I’m pretty sure I won’t ever be buying more physical copies, but I just read a synopsis of the next two arcs and I’m terribly curious. I might borrow them from a library sometime.
Really quick comparison: Ashfur stans are like Mapleshade stans who say that her murders are justified.
You can still be a fan as Ashfur and feel bad for him, but going “he’s justified in his actions!” is just wrong. Same with Mapleshade. You’re allowed to feel bad for her losing her kits and having Appledusk call her a mistake, but saying that he and the others deserve to be murdered, like how Ash tried to kills Squif, is just wrong. (Not to mention it’s treated as that in the books so you can’t even use THAT as a justification for thinking that- and yes it is treated bad in Maple’s, it’s just easy to forget with all the discourse surrounding her stans.)
It's honestly worse, since at the very least you could argue that Mapleshade wasn't mentally stable when she didn't what she did (she was hallucinating her dead kits talking to her).
But Ashfur? He didn't hallucinate at all. He was perfectly lucid. He's just an evil incel.
I liked Ashfur but god that doesnt excuse his actions. I like William Afton from fnaf too and hes a murderer but I don't support him either. Just because theyre your favourite it doesnt mean you can justify everything they do because ""theyre my sweet lovely baby"". Neither Brambleclaw or Ashfur wouldve made a good mate for her tbh
I think Ashfur in the long term would be better than Brambleclaw. Bramblestar is worst off a mate, even when he’s not possessed. Ashfur might be controlling but Bramblestar is too and even worse. And if Squirrelflight chose Ashfur Bramblestar wouldn’t be possessed, the fires scene wouldn’t take place and Hollyleaf, Lionblaze and Jayfeather would have never have to know it, or been told too this way. I think Leafpool and Squirrelflight would have told them. And so many things could have changed, mostly for the better. This is my opinion and I absolutely don’t say it’s right what he did. Squirrelflight just had to pick no mate.
@@raven_2911 Some things would be better, yes, but that doesn't mean he'd be a "good" mate. Squirrelflight wouldve been a lot better off rejecting them both and going with another cat
ngl, having fnaf come right after a sentence abt a warrior cats is like having my hand shook well then punched in the face. but in a good way
If you remember, Ashfur was pretty controlling of Squirrelflight too in the second arc, and extremely overprotective of her. So I think Ashfur would have been a controlling mate if Squirrelflight had chosen him. If he can't handle a simple rejection, I don't think he could handle Squirrelflight disagreeing with her.
@@lgbtqiarights I compare my William and Ashfur a lot because like. god. they dealt with their love life terribly
I cant believe that 10 years later, ashfur is still here to haunt this god forsaken fandom
I think an important lesson people in this fandom need to remember is that if you are in a situation where two people claim to love you but treat you like shit, you absolutely do not have to chose either one. Walking away from both is always an option.
*sigh* Why do people harrass people over cat books?
ikr, its literally fictional, talking mAgical cats
People harass other people over ANY fictional things that exists. What did you expect?
@@eve123princess9 still not an excuse
@@cookiecat2899 EXACTLY!!!!
it makes me genuinely so upset that moomkiti felt scared to make more videos about bramblestar bc of the harassment she got from that video....
The problem nowadays from what I see is that when people get too deep in a fandom they feel it becomes a part of their identity so if someone says something negative about the thing they like it's almost like an attack on them. Fandoms are great things to be a part of but they shouldn't define who you are as a person.
The thing that always gets me the most is after reading Squirrelflights Hope with her wanting more kits, then with Ashfur possessing Bramblestars body.. like the off chance she talks to him about having kits again, and Bramblestar (who is actually now Ashfur) being like "heck yeah I want kits too". That's terrifying lmao
Although Ashfur's quarrel was with Squirrelflight for the most part, it's also worth noting that he may have started hating Bramblestar in Oots off-screen. When Hollyleaf was about to reveal her crime, Bramblestar twisted the story to make it seem like Ashfur was the one attacking her even though it was the other way around. This effectively ruined Ashfur's reputation in ThunderClan, and I feel that's something to take into account about his hatred towards Bramblestar in the recent arc.
One of Bramblestar's best actions, tbh.
@@legrandliseurtri7495 hell yeah, bramble bein a good dad!!!
"Mom said it's my turn on the bad relationship drama!" -Ashfur, who promptly steals it and doesn't give it back for 5+ arcs
Hey guys remember when Stormfur liked Squirrelflight? Stormfur, the loyal tom who drinks his respect women juice and is a lovely mate and father who would just dip from the Clans to make his mate happy? I say it should have been Stormfur. You could even have had some interesting character moments with at least Jayfeather and Feathertail before the reveal. I just think Stormfur would have been the best option for her since we know how he treats his mate. Bbl, writing an AU about this
Send the au link when you finish, I wanna read that :0
can we can we see your au :)
i would love to see ur au when you're done with it
Ooooooo, did they have kits in the au?
Men who drink their respect people juice 🤝
I feel awful for Squirrelflight, she doesn’t deserve neither Ashfur or Bramblestar… kinda wish she ended up with Shrewpaw or even Stormfur.
Yeah I agree squilf deserved so much better.
and yes while stormfur would be another forbidden romance, he still would've been better than both of them
stormfur wouldve been great for squilf tbh
@@mothermusic2549 Yeah I agree. And does anyone notice that the forbidden relationships in the series tend to be more healthy than the ones within their own clans?
@@coffeewolfproductions9113 yes
I just wish that Squirrelflight could find someone that would just be right for her, I do like Squirrelflight and Ashfur better than Bramblestar but none of them were good couples. Most of the relationships are some what wacky in a way, in my opinion, lol. Bumblestripe and Dovewing shouldn’t have been a couple, personally. Bumblestripe shouldn’t have pushed her into that relationship. Ashfur is WAY to OBSESSED with Squirrelflight, it’s very toxic. Along with Bramblestar too. Seeing this video makes me just feel like Squirrelflight should just be a single old lady in the future and stay that way. I still personally like Ashfur as a character but not in a relationship. *I love you’re point on this, thank you 💖*
Thank you so much Moon. You do so much good for the warrior cats community as a whole when you call out problematic opinions like "Ashfur would be better," and when you explain the sexism, grossness, and abusive behaviors the books are unintentionally excusing that kids would miss. Your videos aren't just mindlessly entertaining, they make the world a better place!
Shrewpaw or Tawnypelt are the only good Squirrelflight shipping options.
Oh and Moonlight.
Lmao
Tawnyflight sounds nice
I liked Stormfur but he loves Brook
i like squirrelflight x crowfeather too, and all those ships are also great
@@sunkelking shoot I forgot, that ship is also a real winner
*Moonkitti:* _makes a follow up video to Bramble Bad_
*toxic people in the fandom:* here we go again boyzzz
*Civil people in the fandom:* where's my holy water?
*wheeze*
Bold of you to assume civil people exist in the universe anymore.
If you have to remove every solid piece of characterization from a character to make them the morally superior great guy you have in your head...you might have to acknowledge that you are not dealing with the canon version of the character anymore.
Liking villains is absolutely and entirely fine. But excusing their actions, especially by hoisting the guilt off on other characters who genuinely didn't do anything wrong, is not.
Deeply rooted misogyny?
In MY warrior cat books?
It’s more likely than you’d think.
this reference LOL
I’ll admit, I was (strong emphasis on the word ‘was’) an ashfur apologist, I thought he would be much better than Bramblestar, but that phase is long over. I am notoriously bad at reading between the lines and picking up on these kind of things, and I genuinely thought that Ashfur would be kinder, and just treat her better overall. I’m not trying to defend myself, I am very ashamed of that phase, because SquirrelFlight is my favourite warrior.
I am very, very glad Moon has made this video, but I am almost horrified by the people going around harassing Moon for making a video covering the actual *abuse* going on with bramblestar. Stop Harassing her, she is allowed to have an opinion, and she is by no means ignorant for making these videos.
I worry people that defend Ashfur as a "good" or "better" option for Squirrelflight may fail to recognize abusive behavior in real world relationships. You should never pick someone because they're not **as** abusive as someone else.
Let’s be real, if he was willing to try to ruin Squirrelflight over getting “dumped,” he probably would have been just as vengeful if she dumped him at all at any other point. He was already obsessing over Squirrelflight to begin with. People don’t realize that saying “Ashfur would have been a better cat if Squirrelflight didn’t dump him” is pretty much blaming Squirrelflight for Ashfur’s own actions, blaming her for Ashfur conspiring to kill her father and threatening to kill her kits, *victimblaming* her. He was already doomed because he depended solely on her for his happiness. How can we be sure that Ashfur would *not* attempt to reveal her kits’ true heritage when he was already willing to do so without being Squirrelflight’s mate? He already treated Squirrelflight like fox dung while impersonating as Bramblestar, in a “second chance” to be a “better mate” than Bramblestar was.
I can’t believe people where so against the video about Squirrelflights and Bramblestars video. It was the best explanation ever, and I agreed whit every single thing you went through. My biggest flex watching that video is that I also never skipped forward a second >:)
Regarding the "AU" where Ashfur corners Brambleclaw instead, I feel Bramble would just straight up kill him ngl
I mean he kills Hawkfrost(again) in the Last Hope for killing Hollyleaf
Yeah Squilf was badly hurt so he would be too(unless it just happens that he tells her to go and that he'll save them) but Bramble is also bigger than Ash *and* trained under Evil McTigerdaddy.
assume Brambleclaw's wound is double infected or something
Poor Squilf. I wish she just had Shrewpaw 😕
Me too! I would even accepted anyone else except for Bramblestar and Ashfur. anyone! Lol
I would have preferred if she got with tawnypelt tbh
@@tinyleap8922 honestly Sootfur, Stornfur, Crowfeather, Rainwhisker, Tawnypelt, Moonlight
@@thenyan3095 yes I also ship them :)
Stormfur may have been bland... and they definitely should have waited until squirrelflight was a warrior, but at least he actually cared about her, and didn't hurt her.
I grew up in a household with an abusive family member. Trust me when I say, it does not matter how nice they seem under average circumstances. If they are capable of beating or abusing their significant other when said other makes them upset, they're capable of it at ANY TIME. So, no, Ashfur would not have just 'been good' if Squilf had picked him. He just would have been differently abusive. (Clarification, this is aimed at Ashfur apologists.)
Exactly!!
Your dad?
@@piretiris8223None of your business?
@@Dreamy_Shy did I ask YOU?
@@piretiris8223 Mind your own damn business. Is that to hard for you?
wait are you telling me that people attacked moon over a kitty cat book series? my lord
Ashfur has always been my favorite villain. He was so well written in PO3. What always annoyed me was the people who denied that Ashfur was even a villain. Everyone at least acknowledged that he wanted to kill the three, but people would still deny that the foxtrap thing was an evil act, or that he was trying to and willing to destroy ThunderClan at the gathering. I remember having massive debates at the forums about him, going back and forth on multiple occasions with people who insisted that Ashfur was in love.
I feel like no one cares about the age gap between Squilf and Bramble; he was a warrior when she was newly born.
I just remembered how squirrelflight and stormfur were sortof a ship at the beginning of arc 2. Brook stormfur and squirrelflight probably would've been a better attempt at a love triangle
At least I don't think any of them would have tried to murder the other and their kits lol
👏 stop 👏 victim 👏 blaming 👏 Squirrelflight 👏
Trust me, there are plenty of abuse sympathizers in this fandom and it’s really scary.
*coughs in thissleclaw defenders*
Let's just put it this way- if Ashfur was a real person and literally threatened to kill your children to make you feel the pain he felt when you broke up with him, he'd be classified as abusive and problematic, to say the very least.
Honestly that sucks that Squilf is stuck between two abusive cats with no other love interest. I would love to see her happier it sucks
They missed the chance to make a super edition called. "Ashfur's fire."
They could _maybe_ make a novella but i don’t think there’s really enough story for a whole super edition lol
Yeah XD, I just find it hilarious.
Ashfur's a brilliant villain but people who act like his behaviour was in ANY way justifiable make me so uncomfortable. Like, I'm sorry - if you believe that Ashfur had a right to be so angry, I'm pretty concerned about what your own perception of love is. Ashfur is a disgusting person who felt entitled to a girl - that's it. Even if Squirrelflight and Ashfur had been mates for years, even if she had like, cheated on him or something, or actually used him to make Brambleclaw jealous, none of this would justify Ashfur's behaviour. He overreacted so so much. He didn't ever love Squirrelflight - he just loved the idea of Squirrelflight and loved her as a possession. It's so weird to me when people say that Ashfur would have been a better mate than Brambleclaw because it's simply not true. Brambleclaw is a pretty terrible mate, but he's nowhere near as bad as Ashfur. Imagine how Ashfur would have reacted if he had found out the three were his kits - he wouldn't have reacted better than Brambleclaw, he would have reacted so much worse and I wouldn't have been surprised if we would have ended up with 'fire scene 2.0' in this scenario. This is why I'm actually so happy Ashfur turned out to be the imposter because he's finally being shown as the horrible person that he is rather than some 'uwu I just loved too much!' boy
Oops I wrote a whole essay... Ashfur apologists just make me mad 😭 I've hated this stinky man since I was like 8 years old ok
i read this as "quick ashfur animation" and was very confused to see it was 17 minutes long before I reread the title
Gonna watch it through anyways I love Moonkitti commentaries just as much as Moonkitti animation
I think that if Shrewpaw had lived, he and Squirrelflight would've been adorable together. Or maybe Stormfur joining ThunderClan to be with Squirrelflight (it was confirmed that he fell in love with her during the sun-drown-place journey). But out of the all four cats, I think that Shrewpaw would've been the best tom for her. If not, she could be an independent single she-cat
I find it absolutely horrible that people have harassed you because of the bramblestar video. It’s really just you sharing your opinion on a fictional character and then some people decide to be really mean because they don’t share your opinion. I don’t know exactly what the harassers have done but I can imagine it because well, that’s how the internet is, unfortunately.
@@lumeanoastra1252Going a little overboard when stating an opinion makes harrassment justified and deserved, of course.
@@lumeanoastra1252 the things she went over were actually pretty accurate
@@lumeanoastra1252 Not really. Especially when she uses the text the back it up.
Ikr! Why should people harrass others over FICTIONAL CHARACTERS?? It's ridiculous! There's no real problem, these characters aren't even real and people are allowed to have opinions on them
I despise Bramblestar (bramblePAW supremacy tho) and I find Ashfur to be a much better character that I do enjoy but that's it. He's a better character not a better moral desicion or even really mate. He's clingy and obsessed and while that's what I like about him I can't say what he's done is anything near ok. As a character, I think he's great. But morally I don't understand how you could possibly justify his actions.
Anyways squirrelcrow is the superior ship here (shrew is good as well)
Erin Hunter: I’m gonna write an interesting book about the perspective of cats!
Erin Hunter makes Squirrelflight: I’m gonna turn this into some teen drama!
Moon: They are bias
Me: Ah yes three of the four characters on screen are Gray
Ashfur is crazy obsessed, its pretty creepy. Bramblestar was never the best guy, but its clear he does really love Squirrelflight. Of course I am very mad at what he did after he learned the three were not his kits and in Squirrelflight's Hope. It made me a bit sad because I liked Bramble as a character.
The Entire Series Would Be Different If
1. Ashfur and Squilf Got Together
2. Yellowfang Did Eat Babies
3. Dovewing Loved Bumblestripe
"Bumblestripe doesn't acknowledge Dovewing's feelings or lack of enthusiasm and keeps asking to date her as long as they're in the same Clan, but at least he doesn't kill anyone"
THE BAR FOR MEN IN WARRIOR CATS IS ON THE FLOOR
Still cant believe Eren's killed off Shrewpaw just to give our girl Squirrelflight these terrible relationship issues ):
Moonkitti: Talks about Ashfur’s behavior
Ash stans: *So you’ve chosen death*
As a person who has been in an incredibly unhealthy relationship online and was emotionally abused quite a bit in it, it absolutely pains me to my stomach to see people defending Ashfur when he is clearly in the wrong.
(Sensitive topics ahead, as well as bit of venting. Reason is for anecdotal evidence/experience to support my views)
Basically, someone online told me they were suicidal and because of some stuff going on in our friend group and them telling me false information that painted my friends in a bad light, I believed them and felt bad for them. They then "confessed" their "love" for me, and I was worried that if I said no they would cut contact. So I said yes. That was a terrible mistake. If I ever did something that upset them by accident (like killing someone in a game), they would freak out and tell me how I am "difficult", but how they still "love" me. This really hurt, but I never bothered to tell them because I didn't want to seem like a whiny little b#%ch. A lot more sh*t happened, and eventually they at some point sent my friends sus material of one of them (mind you, we are all MINORS), which got them kicked out of the friend group. That so-called "lover" of mine then ghosted me at some point, but I was able to confront them in a chat and yeah, they really didn't care about me or my friends. That whole experience really hurt, and I even lost the ability to properly emote after it for a bit.
The reason this makes me so upset is that there is quite a bit of correlation between my ex and Ashfur. For one, Ashfur seemed to be a completely normal cat from the outside and acted fairly nice, you wouldn't have guessed that he was so obsessive. But the thing is, that's what the abuser WANTS you to think. They want you to think they are good people, so they can manipulate you to their liking.
Ashfur also got overly upset if Squirrelflight accidentally made him mad from what I remember, which is also a huge red flag. If someone accidentally does something that makes someone upset, they shouldn't freak out about it and should just explain how that makes them feel.
My point from before is even more prominent when the forest catches on fire, and Ashfur, instead of helping a poor woman and her kits, decides to have a full blown temper tantrum over his emotions and tries to *BURN 3 CATS ALIVE BECAUSE OF A SMALL PROBLEM THAT THEY WEREN'T EVEN INVOLVED IN. LIONBLAZE, JAYFEATHER, AND HOLLYLEAF DID NOTHING WRONG HERE! HE WAS TRYING TO MURDER THEM FOR NO REASON, OTHER THAN HIS WITTLE "hEaRtBrEaK"!*
It was also definitely justifiable for Hollyleaf to kill Ashfur. He was dangerous and tried to kill her and her siblings, and was going to attempt to *DESTROY THUNDERCLAN.* You could argue that it's "against the Warrior Code" to kill another cat, but the Warrior Code says that if they are outside of the code and you must do it to protect others, you can. And Hollyleaf was doing just that, saving others from a dangerous cat that could have destroyed ThunderClan.
It just makes me so mad seeing people moralize Ashfur's actions, say that SQUIRRELFLIGHT is in the wrong for BEING IN AN ABUSIVE RELATIONSHIP, and they don't even know how harmful this is. Guys, I don't *care* if this is just "fictional", these books are marketed to CHILDREN, and the community reacting oversympathetically towards a creepy obsessive freak isn't helping! If anything, this might teach kids that relationships like this are okay and normal, and that it's the victim's fault if they are abused, which is NEVER TRUE! *IF YOU ARE BEING ABUSED, IT IS NEVER, AND I REPEAT, NEVER, YOUR FAULT! TELL SOMEONE ABOUT IT IMMEDIATELY!*
This stuff can harm REAL people in abusive relationships and give others the wrong idea. It's just not good, and I'm so tired of seeing all these simps try to justify abuse. It makes me feel ashamed to be apart of the Warriors fandom, because there are so many people that think just because someone broke your heart means you can be a despicable, vile person about it.
I wish that those who shipped Ash and Squirrel realized how fucked up the two are together. He would and WILL destroy God and Satan to gain dominance over Squirrelflight, all because she didn’t love him back.
“Oh boy! These two are meant for each other because he was so nice to her from the beginning!” No, that doesn’t mean anything. I don’t get how hardly any of these shippers acknowledge the fact that Ashfur would’ve been way more controlling than Brambleclaw/star if the two were to get together.
If she were to lie about their kits, he would be more dumbfounded and angry at Squirrel, possibly enough to hurt her because the kits aren’t his(I can just see it). This guy has some serious issues with thinking he can blindly take control over someone he loves, that is not love. He was obsessed with her, so obsessed with her that he’ll posses her own husband and act like a piece of shit towards her. PHYSICALLY harming her as well.
Loving too much is not StarClan worthy, he should’ve gone to hell and rotted in there.
I don’t hate Ashfur, I just don’t like the ship and people defending his actions then blaming Squirrelflight for all the mess he’s caused
(Having someone who likes you be nice to you from the start and suddenly become all mean and hostile because you won’t date them isn’t a good sign. If they “cope” with that rejection by constantly harassing the person they felt interest in, that’s also not a good sign. A very bad one in fact. Yeah, I don’t think it should matter if Ashfur was nice to Squirrelflight from the beginning and his outcome is suddenly being evil because she rejected him. Just remember that all his actions afterward were to get back at Squirrelflight, no one else. His main target was Squirrelflight. And at the same time when he’s constantly hurting her and yelling at her through Bramblestar’s body, he still wants her and that’s why it’s even more messed up if you call back to the many times he’s hurt her)
I think the worst part is the authors will most likely never let Squirrelflight be free of either of these cats (mainly Bramblestar cause Ashfur is double dead)
Did everyone forget how StormFur loved her too? Maybe he would have treated her great if he haven’t met brook
Let's look at Thanos.
EVERYONE loved his character. They loved his complexity, his reasoning seemed sound and logical despite it being ABSOLUTELY MORALLY WRONG. Killmonger is another marvel villain people hella sympathize with. The solo Joker movie with Phoenix as the Joker had people sympathizing with the Joker BUT able to still point out he's a villain. Severus Snape is another great example of someone whom you can sympathize with but can't necessarily agree with his actions.
The same should be done with warriors. Its harder done than said since we grew up on these books and kids can't decipher nuances but Ashfur is a bad cat. Bramblestar is a bad cat. Bramblestar is NOT a villain but still a bad cat and THAT'S what people can't seem to comprehend. That people on the good side can still be bad. Or that they feel attacked for liking bramblestar or Ashfur or mapleshade. So they lash out. Its okay to like these characters. But if you can't see that they aren't wholly good, or if you agree with their actions you need to look inside yourself and ask why.
Honestly I think every kid thought Squirrel was evil. We were to young to realize everyone has more than two or one love interests. It’s natural to change boyfriends and break up with them after awhile. It’s also natural to be attracted to more than one person. I feel like since kids are forced to learn stories that always have the “one true love” trope. They often don’t realize that just because you like someone it doesn’t mean you will end up with them in the end and the person they love will often not share their love.
Nah, I never thought she was evil, I never thought she was interested in Ashfur at all. To me she was just hanging out with him as a friend because I am completely blind about badly written relationship, especially when I was younger.
I don’t think they cared about how the cats work but rather just the trope of “oooh powerful righteous leader’s daughter gets with evil villain’s Son oooooh”
YESSS A LONG VIDEO
I hate that there are so many insecure little people getting upset when their favorite RUclipsrs, fellow fans, and other strangers don't have the same opinions that they do about their favorite series. We need to start handing out the tiny fiddles.
Who Squirrelflight should have really been with:
Absolutely nobody.
Nobody:
Vicky Holmes: His only mistake was falling in love with a cat that did not love him back, and we have all done that-
Yeah we all definitely fell in love with a cat...
Yeah we all attempted to commit murder...
Good job Vicky
I want to hear moonkitti talk about cat gender politics for 2 hours.
Me too!
stormfur was honestly the best option she had, too bad he left for the mountain cats
How dare you forget our lord and savior Shrewpaw
@@yawninglion1677 shrewpaw escaped my mind, too bad he couldnt escape his death 😌
I'm sorry but, WHERE ARE HIS FLOWING GOLDEN LOCKS?!?
IKR?!
2:02
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3:18
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12:54
17:06
Just because Bramble was bad, doesn't mean Ash was better. And vise versa.
For a children's books Warriors cats always has some really bad messages sometimes. Like when they wanted to believe that loving someone too much is a forgivable excuse, like great thats how get obsessive stalkers
I think what people mean to say when they make apologist comments about Ashfur, deep down, is: "I miss the person I thought this character was before the third arc happened." Which I feel, man. But that's just not who he ended up being. Same with Bramblepaw vs Bramblestar, sadly.
For real.
I also find something really fascinating about Ashfur going from Cloudtail's adoptive brother that admired him more than anything and going to avenge his murdered, made-into-dog-bait mother, to the incel that becomes one of the biggest and most popular villains in the series
I just want to say I love this art style so much!
thank you for the part at the end about fandom ^-^
i am a huge ashfur fan but omfg, so many people immediately conclude i like him because i approve of his amoral nature in an irl context and i reaaally don't want to make disclaimers every time i express my enjoyment of his character- i feel like people should trust others more rather than assume the worst!
The only reason I ever liked Ashfur was because I found the fire scene to be hillarious 😂
And also I laughed when he died for some weird reason.
Lmao.
I can relate.
I feel bad for Squirrelflight, she has so many awful choices and awful things happen to her that it’s bitterly hilarious