UPDATE! You can now preorder Robert Fitzpatrick's book Ponzinomics HERE! Coming out on December 15th! www.amazon.com/Ponzinomics-Untold-Story-Multi-Level-Marketing-ebook/dp/B08NHWBSZ2/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=ponzinomics&qid=1607036577&sr=8-1 Smash Like To Defeat the Huns
The sad thing is, my mom is in it like 10 years, and it feels like it is now too late to tell because it became her world. I don't want to ruin her world. She is already old. But the bad thing is I can't even communicate with my mom because of Amway, she is always in a sale mode. If I say I have a headache take this vitamin from Amway, she is trying to sell me things, I know her intentions are good but still. Hate Amway, they ruined our family.
Dear Coffee, I’d like to express my heartfelt thanks for this video and the kind of content you put out. I was suckered into an MLM when I was about 20. Bought into the whole deal of “law of attraction” and “you can be a millionaire and retire by 30” schtick. I could hardly make any money doing it, and all the while I was alienating friends and family . when I finally dropped out, I felt a lot of shame and guilt because I believed I had failed and it was my fault I hadn’t worked hard enough. This video that you’ve put up and others on your channel have helped me deal with those feelings of shame and guilt I’ve carried all these years at my perceived failure. Thanks again, and I hope you keep at it exposing these unscrupulous business practices and sociopathic fake gurus who will stop at nothing to separate ordinary hardworking folks from their hard earned money and savings.
Bro try the stock market already making some cash and it’s been a week but always do your research and never invest if you don’t believe in the company
You are not a failure. Don’t worry we all fail at things and make mistakes. It’s part of what makes us human. You still have plenty of time to succeed at different things and I’m sure that you already have succeeded at many things in your life. Keep going, you got this!
It happens, been there. I think that feeling like a failure part is why people stick around longer than they should. The sad reality a lot of people that are in pyramid schemes are good people, just misguided or uninformed.
@@victormendoza3295 law of attraction definitely can work. But what about the people who use it & fail? It's always the person's fault? Also fake gurus use it to sell their BS course
I saw some kids giving a MLM pitch at a cafe to some kids looked like they were no older than 18. I said just in case there was any doubt in their minds, the guy was a scam artist and they should not give him any money and either go to college or get a real job. The guy was livid, called me a doubter and a hater in some biblical sense. His reaction was priceless.
@@user-fh9qt6eo1h Report the ads when you see them. AdSense has strict rules. The thing is AdSense make the same amount no matter what product is promoted, as long as the ad does its job (wether it's a click, a sell, a print, whatever) so they only care about staying in business. If you encounter an ad that break the acceptable uses of the service it's because not enough people have reported it. It could be because the campaign is fresh or because it has been poorly setup and the ad hasn't been shown to enough people.
My late father had been made redundant,got divorced and had to sell his home.This was 20years ago ..he fell into a mlm trap selling water filters,he went to a meeting and explained the car park was full of expensive cars...I think he was rinsed for £26,000. Bless him it was only after two or so months and having only sold a few filters did he realized he'd been ripped off. He confronted the man one place above him...he simply said we have e new product.. children's learning aids.. ? I tell you these people are sick..it took my dad years to get his confidence back...and he was a former managing director. Mlm are destroying people's lives and peoples confidence..
Every Gullible fool is very confident in their ignorance. Confidence doesn't mean shit. Sounds like your dad was a proud sucker and just wasn't humble enough to admit he was fooled
This is such a great point. MLM promoters will even try to tell you why it’s not a pyramid well before you ask about it being one. It’s pretty disgusting
@@w花b Are Mary Kay and Avon pyramid schemes? I think they are, but I’m not sure because they overwhelmingly focus on selling products over trying to recruit more sellers. Well, at least that’s what I recall of Avon when my mom sold their stuff back in the ‘80s. She wasn’t trying to recruit people to sell the stuff. I’m not as sure about Mary Kay - I have a girlfriend who’s into it, and I forget if she asked me if I wanted to sell the stuff myself or just buy some make-up.
Yeah I really felt it when he talked about what people would say if you tried to discuss it. You just don't like to see people be successful stuff like that haha
@@berekexer8158 You'd be wrong, but you can really almost apply anything to anything. I can apply mustard to my hard drive, that doesn't mean my hard drive is a hotdog now.
Steven deserves an award for this interview. That was brilliant and he handled it like those classic interviewers. (Larry King for example) This guy is going places.
Now he no longer has to do these from exotic locations like the pyramids in Egypt (obviously because he’s talking about pyramid schemes/MLMs. Now he has a $10M studio to do these investigations from!
This stuff took over my high school senior class. I felt like an outcast because I wasn’t in on the MLM stuff and I wasn’t attending the gatherings and presentations in peoples basements. So glad I steered clear but so many people chose MLMs over education
@@anti-ethniccleansing465 Don;t know about the other guy ,but i'm pro because an ethnically homogeneous environment is much better ,especially if it is white.
@@cristristam9054 You aren’t making any sense. My name is in defense of the same people you’re talking about, which is why I’m _AGAINST_ the cleansing that’s happening. Are you implying the only solution is to go on a death march or something? Lmfao.
My mom: Avon and Herbalife. Tried them for years, both faded away eventually. I hate those evil companies for selling fraudulent dreams to mothers trying to be financially productive in addition to raising kids and running a household. Those failures cost a lot more than a couple years and some thousands of dollars. They cause the victims to lose self esteem and to lose confidence in their ability to ever succeed. Terrible, evil companies.
I think the number 1 thing that actually drives people into these schemes is that they feel powerless in their own lives. They either can't find a good job, or they hate the job they're in, and they'll grasp at any branch that they can get.
Thing is.. the City of Utah... the "Mormon Capital"... is also the capital of MLM... and people in Utah are pretty well off! Powerlessness is certainly a Huge factor... but I believe the # 1 is essentially Social Camaraderie, or Group Love if we try to put a name on it. Nothing like MLM gives the (false) hope to make money on a large scale with your entire community... with leaving no one behind! The Herbalife documentary shows how it spread like wildfire in the Latino community... and when u combine it with Powerlessness... then it's a deadly Combo!!
I work on Wall Street and love this channel because it exposes so much of the corporate BS that happens behind closed doors the public never sees. I had a friend who I was lucky enough to save out of this because of this interview a few years ago. Never got to say thanks!
This is your best interview yet in my humble opinion. Outstanding, good sir! You are doing a truly commendable public service by calling out and exposing these predatory scammers.
Not to mention every recruit of an MLM scheme has to pay a fee to join MLM. I've saved several people from MLMs. I did my own investigations when a random person befriended me to recruit me. It's a very cult like atmosphere, I knew something was up because normal people don't act like these people.
not even just a fee, they usually have to make a certain amount of sales to stay being a rep, and most can't actually sell that much and have to buy the products themselves just to keep rank. you literally have to spend your own money just to keep your "job"
@@themischief420 My mom sold Avon in the 80s when she was a stay-at-home mom, and Amway in the 90s as a side thing to her full time job. I do recall Amway products popping up all over the house in the 90s (probably due to the reason you stated), but that didn’t happen with Avon. I don’t recall her ever trying to recruit people either. I’m wondering if Avon can really be considered an “MLM” since it doesn’t have such aspects to it.
@@anti-ethniccleansing465 I don't know about Avon in the 80s, but if you search, you'll see that they made some major changes in 2005. they now have a major focus on recruitment, and you also have to fill your quota to be able to keep your "rank"... so your garage is going to just be filling up with avon products.
@Sarosh the biggest MLM investigation ever (which involved Herbalife) was done under the Obama administration when Bill Ackman was pushing for it. They basically set the precedent that MLM is ok. This has nothing to do with trump
@Sarosh I was speaking in legal context of government supporting them as the original comment said. Trump got paid like 11 million by acn waaaay before he was president to basically advertise. You make it sound like he was involved as president Ironic you call me partisan when your seething so much partisanship you can’t even read
@Sarosh trump ran for president around 2015, before that he had zero involvement in politics, that’s my whole point. He just used his name to advertise a company that paid him, that’s all
MLM Are very calculating. They purposely donate large sums of money to the local community projects (ex. Ronald McDonald houses) to endear themselves to politicians...who then proceeded to look the other way.
What is sad about it all is that his book will probably be massacred by a legion of MLM people, discrediting and throwing its rating to the ground. Yhus, reaching less people. Great interview btw.
Thank you so much for the info, I was in Amway for 2 years and met some good people; the majority of them where struggling to make ends meet, one of them was a down line which hold off paying his bills for his family for buying books, products and buying a new suite. I walked away, after getting broke and in debt with 5k.
I was in the same firm. Most of the 'good' and sweet people would change their tone and gestures if you denied their invitation or didn't recruit downlines!
And the scary thing is that Amway (along with Avon) is actually one of the least disreputable MLMs out there. It only gets worse from there. At least Avon sells stuff that some people buy.
During that time, 1980 onwards, when wage growth fell to flatline, it should be noted that this wasn't because productivity stopped increasing. It actually skyrocketed due to introduction of computers and automation technology to the workplace. And the income of the top 10% of the economy rose by 495% between 1980 and 2010 while income of the lower 90% only rose by 1%. Basically the upper class simply took all of the productivity gains by computers and kept them.
But, but, why do you hate the rich? Think of them, they need 10 cars, 10 mansions. Why would you like to take away that from them? They take all the risk /s Every one i talk to today are so brainwashed.
Went to an MLM meeting and nope'd the fuck out. They literally had a diagram that was shaped like a pyramid during their presentation. As if this wasn't insulting enough, some greaseball tried to get me to another event to recruit me. I told him my friend was having a party (I was being polite) and this scam artist really tried to imply that I was partying my 20's away, going nowhere, when I could be making crazy money. The tone and attitude these people have is infuriating. I went to my friend's party telling everyone about that asshole.
You know part of MLM's makes me think about the importance of the separation between church and state and I think this is very similar. It's mixing business with religion.
I had a similar experience, but it was a workmate who was right at the bottom of the ladder, I was young, didn't know what MLMs were, and he intentionally didn't tell me much and just kept talking about an "opportunity". I went to a meeting with him because I was curious. I couldn't wait to get out of there. It was so much cringe.
It’s amazing how many people are pushing products like this all over social media not knowing how deep it goes and that they’ll never be as successful as they think they will be.
It’s also sad that so many people who don’t believe in themselves are encouraging OTHER people to not believe in themselves as well. It’s a real sickness.
A former high school classmate/semi friend tried getting me to join an mlm after graduation. I asked him, “isn’t this a pyramid scheme?” He got mad said ok and blocked me.
Hey Coffee! In Europe, (Idk if that's a reality in the US as well), there has been an uptick of so-called "financial advisor" MLMs. They work a bit differently though. They work with banks based on commission and hire 18-year-olds to "get them clients", but in reality, it's just the kids trying to sell new insurance to their parents, grandparents and recruit their friends. The problem is that the kids have no idea what they are selling, they just repeat taught formulas and that's it. These companies actually took over my country (Slovakia) financial space and I know they are very popular in Germany as well, and I'm sure if you look well enough you can find plenty in the US. They hold huge events, have billboards and strong advertising and are taking years and money from young people and their families.
Oh my, how do they sell insurance in Germany?! Germans already have hell a lot of insurances (I am one of those people) I would have though the insurance market is saturated.
@@steppenfuchs5608 they usually try to sell you additional insurance that you don't need (Zahnzusatzversicherung, Hausrat and the list is very long) On linkedin, they keep contacting me to sell life insurances... So please be careful
To me the single greatest argument for scientifically preserving your own life indefinitely, is the accumulation of wisdom. Its incredible how much useful info people can learn in just 50 or 60 years. Imagine if they had 10 times as long to learn. And imagine if we never lost all those people with knowledge from the past...
@@mariofranco6201 Product does not mean anything, there are already FTC decisions describing Vemma as product based pyramid scheme, where over 80% of products were sold within its members only. It is like if you open a restaurant and eat 4 out of each 5 meals you sell, would like to see anyone succeeding with such a business. In my country we had a former Herbalife diamond commiting suicide. Not sure if in US you can check annual accounting report of these companies, but here I can and when you put it together and divide the annual sales by the enormous amount of its members, it is more than clear they are all just buying it for themselves, no demand from out of the organisation exists. Fun fact is, that for example around 30 000 Amway members in my country do sell less annually, than one Tesco store. MLM is beyond pathetic proposition.
@@hdfiuhl well there is somekind of clover HDI honey that we (me and my coworkers as well as my sister and her coworkers) found delicious but we hate the whole MLM thing and it being overpriced af. So what we (my sister and I) did was making downline upline of ourselves. the coworkers bought from the downline. the "bonus" are then split between us. It's still overpriced sure, but at least they weren't as outrageous as the original price. The HDI company and the upline tried to take us to their event, but we refused everytime suspecting brainwashing attempt lol.
Buddy you got Robert on!!! This is awesome. I work with all the chambers of commerce across Canada and have been pushing them to ban MLM as business members. Trouble is even chambers want the membership revenue and those ppl tend to buy mucho event tickets. Great work 👏 👍 I watch every video ;)
Reputation laundering is part of their business model. It's like the Better Business Bureau. If you pay them enough money, they'll shower you with all kinds of accolades and business awards.
Fun fact/redemption story (not really, it was a proper pyramid scheme pretending to be a perfume company even though I managed to gain on it): Almost a decade ago I joined an MLM because I'd noticed that their fireplace/oven cleaning agent was cheaper than competition's (I tested waters by ordering one through one of their really hyped victims who offered me their internal price on my first purchase). The product actually did its job really well, so I bought in and, after 10 months, I turned even on the "investment" (think Amazon prime because a product is cheaper online+free shipping). Later on I even ordered a few boxes of the stuff which "leveled me up" giving me access to discounts, some special deals and some fluff bullshit. Unfortunately I never got to use those discounts because the company went bust like 5 years ago and I still clean my fireplace, oven, and recently forge with that dirt cheap cleaning agent.
He won't. Literally lobbiest and government has been caught up in corruption and fraud constantly. NSA and CIA have tools to push these stories out of the algorithm essentially shadow banning the information we get. I can't give exact examples but their are tons of stories that should be on some form of major media and you only find it if you search specific terms on search engines. USA/EU government bureaucracy us soft power to push agendas and pad their bank accounts.
@@AgriParker I promise you the NSA and CIA do not care about mlms, the shady shit they do is much bigger and on behalf of much more powerful players than Amway.
I am just a failed academic in Japan ... resigned in protest from a tenured position 6 years ago, and have been unemployed ever since. But just thought I'd weight in my 2¥ worth ... that this show, and Mr. Fitzpatrick in particular are spot-on .... not just about MLMs or other scams in particular, but the dark side of human nature in general. Back in 1975 or so, I was an undergrad at UNC-W, shifting from biology to philosophy as my major, and in search of myself. I was also a member of volunteer co-ed service fraternity, Alpha Phi Omega, mostly making money raising events to raise money for heart disease research, or doing volunteer projects on campus - for example, carrying books for the handicapped students. For a brief time, my dorm room-mate was single-minded business major. I was a bit more academically 'gifted', so I promised to help him develop communication skills. He took me to an Amway meeting, and I could not help but feel a gut-level moral repulsion at the rising tide of prosperity theology, particularly in the deep South. I asked him why he had not joined Alpha Phi Omega to help those who could not help themselves. He justified devoting his energies to Amway as 'After I become wealthy, I will be in a position to better help others.' I suspect he has never become wealthy enough. As a former educator, I am dismayed at the possibility that a genetic predisposition for 'dark triad' personality traits (pathological narcissism, machiavellian opportunism, and morphologically defined psychopathy) is more salient than good parenting or education, and the potential for personal moral growth is grossly overestimated. Yes, the power of positive thinking didn't do much to help the Auschwitz prisoners, the Cambodians of Pol Pot's regime, or the Palestinians and Rohingya Muslims of today. And yes, it is a cult. But even more pernicious ... with the gradual exposure of the dynamics of religious cults, the herding primate has made a cult out of science as it is being used to justify unscientific pandemic policies. Cartesian duality, at its best, is not an article of faith that fundamental reality is divided into 'subjective' and 'objective'. These are just provisional constructs to help us weed out human biases and perverse incentives from our observations of patterns in nature. Science, at its best, is a systematic, problem-solving process that is constantly making mistakes and self-correcting. At its worst, it is an institutionally sanctioned, authoritarian cult, as per the definitions Mr. Fitzpatrick laid out ... 1 - 'The Utopian Vision' ... ah, yes. Blinded by science of a perfect future. As if science will have much impact on a messy divorce or social shaming. Human nature capable of stripping us from the foibles of the dark side of human nature? Like trying to take a swig from a Klein Bottle. 2 - 'Proprietary Language' ... Of course. The STEM fields are necessarily broken up into niche research areas, each with their own statistics and mathematical models, theories, and assumptions ... few of which the general public are fluent in. Yet complex, multifaceted problems are reduced to a few high priests such such as Fauci, WHO, CDC ... and their churches of cherry picked research from Academia, Monsanto, DuPont, the Sackler Family, etc. Remember that time when 9 out of 10 doctors preferred the smooth taste of Camels? When was the last time any of us ran a regression analysis or questioned the p values of a quantitative analysis claimed as a justification pandemic policies that just, by chance, favor socialism for the rich, and extreme austerity for the rest of us? Bamboozled. Big time. 3 - Brain washing through persuasion ... Google/RUclips, Facebook, Twitter ... and their corporate mass media counterparts have been quite busy, scrubbing any scientific disagreements over whether a silver bullet of Big Pharma vaccines will save us. Even as I type this, history is being sculpted for perverse incentives. Articles and pages on websites I had saved since the beginning of the pandemic have been mysteriously 'disappeared'. The Library of Alexandria is on fire. 4 - Separate you from your community ... Yep. Here in Japan, like most of the world, doesn't it seem odd that while small, locally owned business ... particularly churches, pubs, and restaurants where community can meet ... are particularly susceptible to the virus? And schools, industrial production lines, bureaucratic functionaries, and delivery services are not? The policies are deliberately hollowing out not the middle class ... but rather the community as the default organization of humans as social primates. Like Amway ... science, politics, and business are busy trying to reduce the mass of humanity into 'herded primates' while a very few, safe in their gated communities, will be the 'herding primates' ... not so different from H.G. Wells' 'Molocks eating the Eloi' in 'The Time Machine'. Without 5 - Separate you from your own identity ... yes. Regardless of your criticial thinking skills, when you reject science as a faith, you are 'uneducated'. I think a good word for this is 'gas lighting'. 6 - Mystify it. Yep. The arcane specialized language and institutionally sanctioned authority has made priests out of the likes of Michio Kaku, Neil deGrasse Tyson, Jordon Peterson, etc. I'll take the likes of Chris Hedges, Cornel West, Noam Chomsky, Naomi Klein, William Blum, Howard Zinn, etc over them any day of the week. Or for that matter, Lee Camp, Jimmy Dore, or Joe Rogan. There may be the potential for a cautionary warning to the young and naive ... but for many of us, as much as I like this broadcast, this, and Mr. Fitzpatrick's book, may be just preaching to the choir. I am less optimistic than Mr. Fitzpatrick because I no longer believe in social progress. Just social processes. The herd may be becoming more aware of MLM's, and in so doing, fall into the cult of science-as-a-blind-faith, rather than science as a process of carefully systematic, critical-thinking skills. What most in the West don't realize is that Japan's public health system and pension is a giant ponzi scheme. The central Bank of Japan is following the U.S. Fed's policy of printing out tons of fiat currency as an excuse to shore up the 'public health'. Bullshit. The negative interest rates, the constant corruption and cover-ups at the top, and a draconian states-secrets law (you will find no Japanese equivalences of Julian Assange or Ed Snowden) ... have been pointing to a financial meltdown for years. The bitch of it, I don't see a way out. As a species, we may have already passed the point of no return in breaching the malthusian limits of what happens when unlimited growing populations and their unlimited consumer driven aspirations meets the very real limits of natural resources upon which all real wealth is grounded. STEM is not going to extend our swarms to off-world resources in time. Mr. Fitzpatrick is dead right, and echoes Chomsky. The U.S. is a single party corporate state (like China) with two faces, the Corporate Democrats and the Corporate Republicans. MLMs are not a partisan issue. Neither is science as the new religion. We are seeing a growing wealth gap because we are approaching the malthusian end game. Don't take my word for it. Just find a summary of Karl Popper's 'The Open Society and its Enemies' ... probably the 20th century's most influential philosopher of science, and his dire warnings from his experience with the Nazi technocracy. But his warnings as well, will either fall on deaf ears, or also be preaching to the choir. Will end with a hauntingly historic-prophetic passage .... ''Thus, Norse society’s structure created a conflict between the short-term interests of those in power, and the long-term interests of the society as a whole. Much of what the chiefs and clergy valued proved eventually harmful to the society. Yet the society’s values were at the root of its strengths as well as of its weaknesses. The Greenland Norse did succeed in creating a unique form of European society, and in surviving for 450 years as Europe’s most remote outpost. We modern Americans should not be too quick to brand them as failures, when their society survived in Greenland for longer than our English-speaking society has survived so far in North America. Ultimately, though, the chiefs found themselves without followers. The last right that they obtained for themselves was the privilege of being the last to starve.'' Diamond, Jared. Collapse (p. 276). Penguin Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.
Very astute comments and quotes. Thank you for sharing your Cassandra-call thoughts, experience and insights. Are you active on any social media platforms? I would like to introduce you to Rodger Hyodo on Facebook.
Great Interview! I was only 19 when I went to a Forever Living meeting and they all sounded brainwashed but it was very catching because of all the success stories, vacations to exotic locations, huge passive income etc. You just have to use your brain a little bit to realize this is a scam
Stop with the "struggling single mom" narrative. Stupid is as stupid does. They're in the position they are in because they are serial bad decision makers. Fools.
I still remember a coworker of mine in the military trying to sell me into that dream holiday pyramid scheme. So many of us made fun of him and tried to explain that it was a pyramid scheme and he didn't care.
When I hear that MLMs have bipartisan support I am reminded of the great George Carlin : The-word-bipartisan-usually-means-some-larger-than-usual-deception-is-being carried out.
Thank, thank, thank you!!! I could never articulate this info myself, what you have accomplished by revealing the truth!!! My son has been sucked into this, "SCAMWAY, OR SHAMWAY" cult, and I saw right through the CRAP this MLM is peddling!!! BUT sadly it is very difficult to combat this EVIL in helping my son to realize how he has been HOOD WINKED, so I will share this with him and hope he fairly gives it a listen! AGAIN, THANK YOU!!!
Good luck! Hope you can reach him before he gets too brainwashed... They are being programmed to believe anyone offering negative viewpoints on their new "business" are "Dream Stealers" and worse.
Hi hope he give it time and attention MLM is like a black hole once in event horizon range u get annihilated. I wish u strength and courage to u and ur son
If you haven't bought the book I actually really recommend it! Brilliantly written, has citations, really is an excellent source to learn about MLMs from.
I actually found this more inspiring than depressing which was not what I expected, and that's because it points to a simple solution to a huge multitude of major problems. Remove the money from political process. Limitations on lobbying.
In know Tupperware was a MLM but their products (at least the OG products of my childhood) were great and lasted. I've lost more Tupperware than I've had to discard because it wore out.
Possibly could be called a ‘Unicorn MLM’ where there is still a component of selling to customers rather than what most MLMs do - recruit other people to ‘sell’. Ie. Basically a home-based retail store vs a recruitment company!
I was in Amway for a few years in Fairbanks AK. I was told the real money was in the training system which consisted of books, tapes, and conferences. And that stuff messed up my mind for a few years even after I got out of it. They never taught real skills such as marketing strategies and salesmanship with closing. Those are at least skills you can use to make money.
My friend (RIP) loaned me one of those tapes. All i remember is the speaker sarcastically saying "So here you are, gonna sell me some soap again?" And the audience laughed. He also said "All the single women stand up! Now all the single men stand up!" As this was a way to hook you up with someone if anything
The greenscreen looks crisp and perfect on this video Coffee. Great job. And excellent interview of course. Definitely expands more on what we already knew or suspected about MLMs.
This is one of my favorite, if not my absolute favorite interviews so far! I've been involved with some MLM's in the past and never succeeded like my upline did. And I know exactly why. It took me a while to figure out, but the business model and the way that I was taught to recruit people, rubbed me the wrong way and I was resistant to the methods. All it got me was more debt and friends that didn't want to hang out with me any more. 😢 Fortunately I was able to redeem myself and they are still my friends. Anyway...Robert's research and knowledge of the history, the industry and the way that politics has played a part in the continued promotion of MLM's is a real eye opener! Great interview...just awesome! Good job, Coffee!
My in-laws got into a couple of MLMs. They would talk respectfully of their upline diamond. One day, we were at a theme park eating lunch and they were talking again about their upline. This time they said that their upline was being forced to move from their home. "What?" I thought. How in the world does a Diamond level upline get "forced" to move from their home. "It wasn't their dream home, they were just renting!" That was the moment i started to wonder just how well the "1%" were doing. The people at the tippity top were definitely doing well. But that is the 0.001%...
I know some very smart people involved in this MLM. Business people who help identify bottlenecks in businesses. People who pick corporations apart to optimize processes. They make money in the MLM, but at what cost? They tried to explain it to me, sell me on the products, but it never clicked. It’s not right. No one sells the products to people outside of the scheme.
This was a terrific interview and I'm going to buy this book. I have it in pretty bad for MLM's and Robert really summarized a big part of why. I was particular interested to hear him speculate about why there hasn't been a documentary film about this. Seems like it'd be a no brainer. Someone signing up for an MLM and going undercover to make a movie about it would be fantastic.
the thing i find amazing is that no one bothers to do the simple math that shows if everyone recruits 5 people who recruit 5 people etc… it would only take 14 levels before you exceed the entire population of the planet
People simply don't understand exponential. They just think it means "really fast". People learn about exponential functions in high school (or "middle school" as some places call it), and they teach it through examples of interest rates. Then these people have the gall to say that school doesn't teach them useful life skills. No, they just weren't paying attention.
They are huge problem in Utah, and the government here and community never seems to do anything about it. They start, get huge, make money and then boom....belly up. Over and over and over. The guys who start them here have massive mansions, in fact 3 of the most expensive homes in Utah for sale right now......all MLM guys. 25-48mil
Wow what an incredible video. I thought I knew a lot about MLMs but I never knew the political support thats backing it.this must be the best video on YT on this topic, 10 stars!
Dude is spot on about what has been happening since the seventies, and I agree that both sides of the political aisle have been at it and taking yuge amounts of money to allow it to happen. Along with strangling funds for public education so people stay ignorant.
@@dieselscience If they get enough negative publicity and enough complaints they will at least review it. The damaging PR would be a lot more damaging than losing the revenue these tin pot mercenaries generate generate with their barrel scraping bidding strategies.
Only thing is I don’t recall him ever mentioning what happened after the 12 years or so that he said the FTC didn’t do anything because Ford and then Reagan supported Amway.
45:00 - 56:00 It is absolutely, 100% a cult. 1:08:00 I, too, have seen families destroyed because an MLM member deemed their skeptical spouse to be a "negative influence". 1:10:16 Yes, but there's still a long, uphill battle. MLMs are aware and are fighting back. I am aware of one company that is even devious enough to have members publish books explaining why they are not an MLM.
Sure the government is complicit but this is the cornerstone of America; anything that makes money is allowed to exist, no matter how morally or ethically decrepit until its legalized and socially normalized.
Just so you know a big a part of the coaches/scammers/new agers prosperity sellers have been trained through MLM. The first generation at least is mostly people like that, the whole thing is evolving. Also Donald trump was spokesperson for ACN
One of my best friends got sucked into a pyramid scheme, they were basically just getting people to pay 250 bucks for a thick book of life insurance business jargon, and then they tell you to go sell that book to everyone you know under the guise of “recruitment”
Are you ever going to address these kind of "new school" MLMs that instead of selling physical retail products, sell services such as mobile and internet subscriptions?
We have one in the UK called Utility Warehouse they wrap up all your utilities i.e. gas and electric, internet and home phone they throw in free energy saving lightbulbs etc.etc. they play on the fact that they are super convenient because you don't have to shop around for all these services and they have a celebrity endorsement in Joanna Lumley to target the older demographic. I'd have thought she'd be better than that.
They've always had something similar to that. In the 90's they had MLM's that sold long distance services. ACN was one of them and they are still around.
Look up "The Slave Circle" and Devil Corp. It's referring to those "marketing" jobs that hire young people to sell at Walmart/ Costco's and sometimes door to door. The only way to move up in these companies is to recruit people below you. All so you can open your own office and become a "business owner". They use all the same cult tactics/ guilt-tripping that MLMs do.
The real reason these continue is because many people who have been scammed in these types of businesses cannot admit it and don’t talk about it after the fact. They think it’s because they “didn’t try hard enough”
So the new age of RUclips ushered in the new version of MLM. It's just that with tech and its unlimited reach (given you have the ad budget), you don't get a pyramid, you get kinda a wide, super wide flat pyramid with tons of people losing money to one person.
This showed up in my feed. I haven't naturally worked my way back this far yet, but it is sad to see only 10k views. I think it is time to revisit this topic. I am going to read this book.
Exceptional episode. I have many years of experience within the industry itself and enjoyed the depth of Robert's perspectives. I particularly like the link made between the self empowerment teaching and a shaming culture. I'd say it's a level of shaming that most within that world are unaware of. I mean what could be wrong with building someone up to believe that more is possible for them? Lots more I could add. One thing, out of the high percentage of people that don't make any money, you'd be surprised at how many of those literally did nothing (not all MLM's require an initial investment to join or purchase product) so this idea of masses of 'victims' is not entirely the case. I look forward to the book.
By the way Coffee, could you do a video on Valuetainment and Patrick Bet-David? Not only has the channel turned into PragerU, his PHP "agency" is a huge MLM scheme.
@@jayvideos6959 I was too, it took me a while to figure out. Go to Glassdoor and scroll past the obviously fake reviews, it's literally all people warning you that it's a scam. They try to convince you you'll get rich, and make you spend hundreds of dollars.
@@stormsurge1850 I like him but his understanding of geo politics and economics is very lacking. I'm European and I cringe whenever he tries to explain anything outside of America. Very surprising for an Iranian refugee. Still though he does get interesting guests.
100% is like a cult. That was actually the aspect that turned me off. Had an "interview" after my first job after high school eliminated my position, had been turned down by multiple other jobs and was kind of desperate. Everyone was super nice. Then when I went to the first meeting and it was like 20 people shoved into an apartment living room, it became super apparent that I was one of a couple people that were being recruited, and there was a lot of intense focus on me. They literally told us that if our family members don't support the venture, we need to cut off communication. It was insanity.
I think the point coffee was making about the think positive online marketers or “gurus” being the modern-day MLM is spot on. In less overt ways they are like MLMs... they promise transformation and certification from their “signature programme” after completing their course...but when you get out in the real world the certification means jack shit and didn’t teach you any actionable skills... so you have two options either you pay an extra 2k to learn more in the VIP level 2 programme or you start referring people to make back a portion of your investment (cause most of these courses conveniently have refer a friend programme) they don’t overtly talk about uplines and downlines but it’s essentially the same type of misrepresentation and fraud funnel. I wish there was actually a third party company to vouch for all these courses online to make it easier for buyers...
You also aren’t allowed to be negative. If you say you’re not making money, you’ll get iced out as a toxic person, so everyone assumes everyone else is making money because that’s what they say is happening because that’s what their “manifesting”
Another factor that made it easy to believe there was such a thing as a good MLM was the tech boom at the same time. One could imagine an MLM selling a really revolutionary product like personal computers or the iPhone and being the quickest way to get the word out about it because of how quickly it can scale, even if it never actually happened.
1:04:20 well as someone who has friends who work in herbalife after the bill ackman bet , herbalife changed so that now distributors had to log in what they sold into the system or else they were not going to be able to reap the rewards, what did people do? they order the product and just logged in sales that had not happened yet and so the scheme continued thats when a lot of people began exiting herbalife bc that was an eye opener and also many people are not tech savy so they just gave up and left the company
48:00 Spot on! I went to a couple of Amway events and this is exactly what they told me (Belief-> Behavior-> Business). They fail to disclose that the business is a calculated trap.
UPDATE! You can now preorder Robert Fitzpatrick's book Ponzinomics HERE! Coming out on December 15th!
www.amazon.com/Ponzinomics-Untold-Story-Multi-Level-Marketing-ebook/dp/B08NHWBSZ2/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=ponzinomics&qid=1607036577&sr=8-1
Smash Like To Defeat the Huns
Wow this is insane!
This comment is why I liked.
Let's get down to business!
holy moly wow what an interview
I wore a dress for you. lol... You dont have to like it. Its just a true story. lol
The sad thing is, my mom is in it like 10 years, and it feels like it is now too late to tell because it became her world. I don't want to ruin her world. She is already old. But the bad thing is I can't even communicate with my mom because of Amway, she is always in a sale mode. If I say I have a headache take this vitamin from Amway, she is trying to sell me things, I know her intentions are good but still. Hate Amway, they ruined our family.
Sorry to hear this. Is she making some okay revenue?
@@myp0h very unlikely considering 99% of people lose money in MLMs
I’m sorry, that’s really sad
Heartbreaking shit man...
Your mom turned her child into a customer. Welcome to sales 101 via the MLM.
Dear Coffee, I’d like to express my heartfelt thanks for this video and the kind of content you put out. I was suckered into an MLM when I was about 20. Bought into the whole deal of “law of attraction” and “you can be a millionaire and retire by 30” schtick. I could hardly make any money doing it, and all the while I was alienating friends and family . when I finally dropped out, I felt a lot of shame and guilt because I believed I had failed and it was my fault I hadn’t worked hard enough.
This video that you’ve put up and others on your channel have helped me deal with those feelings of shame and guilt I’ve carried all these years at my perceived failure.
Thanks again, and I hope you keep at it exposing these unscrupulous business practices and sociopathic fake gurus who will stop at nothing to separate ordinary hardworking folks from their hard earned money and savings.
Bro try the stock market already making some cash and it’s been a week but always do your research and never invest if you don’t believe in the company
glad to hear you got out of it. don't beat yourself up over it. everyone makes mistakes!!
You are not a failure. Don’t worry we all fail at things and make mistakes. It’s part of what makes us human. You still have plenty of time to succeed at different things and I’m sure that you already have succeeded at many things in your life. Keep going, you got this!
It happens, been there. I think that feeling like a failure part is why people stick around longer than they should. The sad reality a lot of people that are in pyramid schemes are good people, just misguided or uninformed.
@@victormendoza3295 law of attraction definitely can work. But what about the people who use it & fail? It's always the person's fault? Also fake gurus use it to sell their BS course
"There is no lobby to push the truth, but there is an enormous lobby to push the lie" So true
That is Because no one knows what the truth is.
The lobby that pushes the truth is the Roman Catholic Church
We do know the truth, we just don’t like to admit it.
@@Libertariun the truth makes less money
@@Libertariun lies didn't made any sense to me, it makes me anxious. But to certain people, lies are like medicine.
I saw some kids giving a MLM pitch at a cafe to some kids looked like they were no older than 18. I said just in case there was any doubt in their minds, the guy was a scam artist and they should not give him any money and either go to college or get a real job. The guy was livid, called me a doubter and a hater in some biblical sense. His reaction was priceless.
A lot of these outfits are almost indistinguishable from religious cults.
@@himoffthequakeroatbox4320 The scary thing is that 90% of the worlds population is in a religious cult.
you were a dream stealer!😱
@@Salome10185
I’m sure that mad sense in your mind, but it doesn’t make sense to those of us that are literate.
@@anti-ethniccleansing465BECAUSE YOUR THE AMAZON FBA GUY, WHO SAID YOUR WERE LITERATE, DUMMY.. RACIST
Fake gurus are the new age branch off from the MLMs of yesterday
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@@binarysignals9593 Google doesnt care, 99% of all ads I get are gurus shilling books and courses
LOL! Fake gurus predate MLMs by thousands of years!
@@user-fh9qt6eo1h Report the ads when you see them. AdSense has strict rules.
The thing is AdSense make the same amount no matter what product is promoted, as long as the ad does its job (wether it's a click, a sell, a print, whatever) so they only care about staying in business.
If you encounter an ad that break the acceptable uses of the service it's because not enough people have reported it.
It could be because the campaign is fresh or because it has been poorly setup and the ad hasn't been shown to enough people.
@@charlesm.2604
How do you report an ad? And how do guru ads “break the use of the service?”
My late father had been made redundant,got divorced and had to sell his home.This was 20years ago ..he fell into a mlm trap selling water filters,he went to a meeting and explained the car park was full of expensive cars...I think he was rinsed for £26,000.
Bless him it was only after two or so months and having only sold a few filters did he realized he'd been ripped off.
He confronted the man one place above him...he simply said we have e new product.. children's learning aids.. ?
I tell you these people are sick..it took my dad years to get his confidence back...and he was a former managing director.
Mlm are destroying people's lives and peoples confidence..
Every Gullible fool is very confident in their ignorance. Confidence doesn't mean shit. Sounds like your dad was a proud sucker and just wasn't humble enough to admit he was fooled
When an organisation has to explain to you why they're not a pyramid scheme, it's probably because they are a pyramid scheme.
This is such a great point. MLM promoters will even try to tell you why it’s not a pyramid well before you ask about it being one. It’s pretty disgusting
@@crustylust3490 it's funny because these same promoters will end up broke since it's basically more than 99% of the members that lose money
@@w花b
Are Mary Kay and Avon pyramid schemes? I think they are, but I’m not sure because they overwhelmingly focus on selling products over trying to recruit more sellers. Well, at least that’s what I recall of Avon when my mom sold their stuff back in the ‘80s. She wasn’t trying to recruit people to sell the stuff. I’m not as sure about Mary Kay - I have a girlfriend who’s into it, and I forget if she asked me if I wanted to sell the stuff myself or just buy some make-up.
It’s could also be handling an objection upfront.
Robert Fitzpatrick, the OG anti MLMer, we salute you sir!
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Best line. "The people in MLM are the market." Reminds me of when I heard, "If something (like Facebook, Twitter) is free then you are the product."
*RUclips
Because YT watchers always forget about that. ;)
@@ArDeeMeethx I didn't even think about RUclips. I'm not going nowhere though. 😂😂😂
This was a really interesting interview to listen to in 2022, especially in light of the farce of NFTs.
Yeah I really felt it when he talked about what people would say if you tried to discuss it. You just don't like to see people be successful stuff like that haha
You could apply a lot of it to identity politics, drug culture, gaming etc too. Such tactics are abused throughout society.
@@berekexer8158 we are doomed when it's considered logic
@@berekexer8158 You'd be wrong, but you can really almost apply anything to anything. I can apply mustard to my hard drive, that doesn't mean my hard drive is a hotdog now.
@@Hahahahaaahaahaa You really like hearing yourself talk lol
Wow, the million dollar studio has its own set of pyramids.
10 million dollar studio* ;D
He was able to buy them with the funds that came in from the live stream 😁
I thought they were upside-down funnels...
@Shiny Head This sounds very interesting. How do I register?
Genius
Steven deserves an award for this interview. That was brilliant and he handled it like those classic interviewers. (Larry King for example) This guy is going places.
Now he no longer has to do these from exotic locations like the pyramids in Egypt (obviously because he’s talking about pyramid schemes/MLMs. Now he has a $10M studio to do these investigations from!
He is a great reporter! Knows how put people at ease while asking tough questions
This is the most insightful and informative video on MLM that I’ve ever seen!
Expose their manipulative cult tactics!
🙌🏿🙌🏾🙌🏽🙌🏼🙌🏻
I cannot believe it, Holly from the meme "No se dice" is here!
This stuff took over my high school senior class. I felt like an outcast because I wasn’t in on the MLM stuff and I wasn’t attending the gatherings and presentations in peoples basements. So glad I steered clear but so many people chose MLMs over education
You did well.
High school?! Seriously? What was the MLM? What did it sell?
@Sean Brogan
Why are you pro EC??? Explain yourself.
@@anti-ethniccleansing465 Don;t know about the other guy ,but i'm pro because an ethnically homogeneous environment is much better ,especially if it is white.
@@cristristam9054
You aren’t making any sense. My name is in defense of the same people you’re talking about, which is why I’m _AGAINST_ the cleansing that’s happening. Are you implying the only solution is to go on a death march or something? Lmfao.
that's grandpa zilla!!!
Folgerzilla ☕
Why do u always post on his videos? It's weird as I don't think I've ever seen him like your comments. Is it to gain credibility?
@@AbundantRick So what if it is. If thats his job. Mind your own fucking business.
@@binarysignals9593 said the man into binary options. . . .
@@AbundantRick His comment ratio doesn't even match his videos.
MLM = Mom Lost Money
I want to like this comment but ... ..ahh shit!! I'mma just do it!! Sorry!
MLM= Make Little Money (Scam)
May Lose Money
Millions lost millions
My mom: Avon and Herbalife. Tried them for years, both faded away eventually. I hate those evil companies for selling fraudulent dreams to mothers trying to be financially productive in addition to raising kids and running a household. Those failures cost a lot more than a couple years and some thousands of dollars. They cause the victims to lose self esteem and to lose confidence in their ability to ever succeed. Terrible, evil companies.
I think the number 1 thing that actually drives people into these schemes is that they feel powerless in their own lives. They either can't find a good job, or they hate the job they're in, and they'll grasp at any branch that they can get.
Thing is.. the City of Utah... the "Mormon Capital"... is also the capital of MLM... and people in Utah are pretty well off!
Powerlessness is certainly a Huge factor... but I believe the # 1 is essentially Social Camaraderie, or Group Love if we try to put a name on it.
Nothing like MLM gives the (false) hope to make money on a large scale with your entire community... with leaving no one behind!
The Herbalife documentary shows how it spread like wildfire in the Latino community... and when u combine it with Powerlessness... then it's a deadly Combo!!
Nah. It’s their greed and laziness. They buy the “get rich quick doing this easy scheme” dream
No wonder two years after this interview you nailed SBF
I work on Wall Street and love this channel because it exposes so much of the corporate BS that happens behind closed doors the public never sees. I had a friend who I was lucky enough to save out of this because of this interview a few years ago. Never got to say thanks!
which street is that again? walsh?
This is your best interview yet in my humble opinion. Outstanding, good sir! You are doing a truly commendable public service by calling out and exposing these predatory scammers.
Just thinking the same thing.. This is lowkey the best Philosophical breakdown of MLM's I've ever heard in a podcast.
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Not to mention every recruit of an MLM scheme has to pay a fee to join MLM. I've saved several people from MLMs. I did my own investigations when a random person befriended me to recruit me. It's a very cult like atmosphere, I knew something was up because normal people don't act like these people.
not even just a fee, they usually have to make a certain amount of sales to stay being a rep, and most can't actually sell that much and have to buy the products themselves just to keep rank. you literally have to spend your own money just to keep your "job"
@@themischief420
My mom sold Avon in the 80s when she was a stay-at-home mom, and Amway in the 90s as a side thing to her full time job. I do recall Amway products popping up all over the house in the 90s (probably due to the reason you stated), but that didn’t happen with Avon. I don’t recall her ever trying to recruit people either. I’m wondering if Avon can really be considered an “MLM” since it doesn’t have such aspects to it.
@@anti-ethniccleansing465 I don't know about Avon in the 80s, but if you search, you'll see that they made some major changes in 2005. they now have a major focus on recruitment, and you also have to fill your quota to be able to keep your "rank"... so your garage is going to just be filling up with avon products.
@@heathersmith4042They've become Jafra
The government supports and makes MLMs possible?
SHOCKING
*sarcasm
@Sarosh the biggest MLM investigation ever (which involved Herbalife) was done under the Obama administration when Bill Ackman was pushing for it. They basically set the precedent that MLM is ok. This has nothing to do with trump
@Sarosh I was speaking in legal context of government supporting them as the original comment said. Trump got paid like 11 million by acn waaaay before he was president to basically advertise. You make it sound like he was involved as president
Ironic you call me partisan when your seething so much partisanship you can’t even read
@Sarosh trump ran for president around 2015, before that he had zero involvement in politics, that’s my whole point. He just used his name to advertise a company that paid him, that’s all
@Sarosh probably. I don’t really care, all I’m saying is that there was no trump administration involvement in MLMs, only Obama.
MLM Are very calculating. They purposely donate large sums of money to the local community projects (ex. Ronald McDonald houses) to endear themselves to politicians...who then proceeded to look the other way.
Boy! What an engrossing journey through history, really appreciate Mr. Fitzpatrick for coming in and sharing his knowledge and experience.
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What is sad about it all is that his book will probably be massacred by a legion of MLM people, discrediting and throwing its rating to the ground. Yhus, reaching less people. Great interview btw.
There are a lot of anti mlm grouowa on tinternet also, it will be a virtual bloodbath. 😎
2 and a half years later here. It has 157 reviews on Amazon, with a 4.5 star rating out of 5 stars possible.
There are a few MLMers in here already. They act like Harbor Freight defenders
Thank you so much for the info, I was in Amway for 2 years and met some good people; the majority of them where struggling to make ends meet, one of them was a down line which hold off paying his bills for his family for buying books, products and buying a new suite. I walked away, after getting broke and in debt with 5k.
My dad was like this now I know why
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glad you made it out with only 5k debt. you can pay that back in no time.
I was in the same firm. Most of the 'good' and sweet people would change their tone and gestures if you denied their invitation or didn't recruit downlines!
And the scary thing is that Amway (along with Avon) is actually one of the least disreputable MLMs out there. It only gets worse from there. At least Avon sells stuff that some people buy.
During that time, 1980 onwards, when wage growth fell to flatline, it should be noted that this wasn't because productivity stopped increasing. It actually skyrocketed due to introduction of computers and automation technology to the workplace. And the income of the top 10% of the economy rose by 495% between 1980 and 2010 while income of the lower 90% only rose by 1%. Basically the upper class simply took all of the productivity gains by computers and kept them.
I agree 110%.
I agree 495%
But, but, why do you hate the rich? Think of them, they need 10 cars, 10 mansions.
Why would you like to take away that from them?
They take all the risk /s
Every one i talk to today are so brainwashed.
I agree 1%
Thr federal reserve needs to know your location.
Went to an MLM meeting and nope'd the fuck out. They literally had a diagram that was shaped like a pyramid during their presentation. As if this wasn't insulting enough, some greaseball tried to get me to another event to recruit me. I told him my friend was having a party (I was being polite) and this scam artist really tried to imply that I was partying my 20's away, going nowhere, when I could be making crazy money. The tone and attitude these people have is infuriating. I went to my friend's party telling everyone about that asshole.
Ye they know how to manipulate u...im a victim.
You know part of MLM's makes me think about the importance of the separation between church and state and I think this is very similar. It's mixing business with religion.
I had a similar experience, but it was a workmate who was right at the bottom of the ladder, I was young, didn't know what MLMs were, and he intentionally didn't tell me much and just kept talking about an "opportunity". I went to a meeting with him because I was curious. I couldn't wait to get out of there. It was so much cringe.
@@MrMarinus18
Religion is a business.
You still partying your 20's away bro?
You should hit this seminar with me
It’s amazing how many people are pushing products like this all over social media not knowing how deep it goes and that they’ll never be as successful as they think they will be.
It's sad. The most painful ting is the complete waste of time... time they'll never get back.
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It’s also sad that so many people who don’t believe in themselves are encouraging OTHER people to not believe in themselves as well. It’s a real sickness.
Doin this they cant but if they wake up and realize they probably can.
@@EPHtheChemist there’s a difference between believing in yourself and believing in an MLM. They’re there to scam you.
I'm thoroughly impressed with how this man can go so in-depth into the minds of victims n speak out how they r truly feeling!
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1 minute gang
Thanks for your work man
LOL to see this kind of scammy comment on coffeezilla's content actually made me laugh out loud
Do a kickflip
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@@noice9163 *Complain to Google about fake guru ads on RUclips
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A former high school classmate/semi friend tried getting me to join an mlm after graduation. I asked him, “isn’t this a pyramid scheme?” He got mad said ok and blocked me.
They will not be missed
That's the perfect way to get customers: your high school yearbook
I never miss a Robert Fitzpatrick interview. Another outstanding conversation with an anti-MLM hero. Thank you!
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They also hook you up on attenting events where they've motivational speakers to give you false hope
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Hey Coffee! In Europe, (Idk if that's a reality in the US as well), there has been an uptick of so-called "financial advisor" MLMs. They work a bit differently though. They work with banks based on commission and hire 18-year-olds to "get them clients", but in reality, it's just the kids trying to sell new insurance to their parents, grandparents and recruit their friends. The problem is that the kids have no idea what they are selling, they just repeat taught formulas and that's it. These companies actually took over my country (Slovakia) financial space and I know they are very popular in Germany as well, and I'm sure if you look well enough you can find plenty in the US. They hold huge events, have billboards and strong advertising and are taking years and money from young people and their families.
Oh my, how do they sell insurance in Germany?! Germans already have hell a lot of insurances (I am one of those people) I would have though the insurance market is saturated.
@@steppenfuchs5608 they usually try to sell you additional insurance that you don't need (Zahnzusatzversicherung, Hausrat and the list is very long)
On linkedin, they keep contacting me to sell life insurances... So please be careful
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@@thestyler124 bro, is nobody going to point out the fact that that German word is TWENTY-THREE CHARACTERS LONG WTF!?
@@kalvincalvert it's more of a compound tho, I think
To me the single greatest argument for scientifically preserving your own life indefinitely, is the accumulation of wisdom.
Its incredible how much useful info people can learn in just 50 or 60 years. Imagine if they had 10 times as long to learn. And imagine if we never lost all those people with knowledge from the past...
Coffeezilla is the Batman of RUclips
or Batman is the Coffeezilla of cartoon world
Wrong, but he does a good job.
No that’s Jim Browning. Coffeezilla is more like Robin
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@Sachin I think it’s great 👍🏾
They want to cover everything by saying “But hey! We are different than ponzi frauds! We have products!!” lol.
it's in-game currency for a pyramid scheme
@@Coffeezilla Yup, they literally offer products just to be sort of “legal”, still fraudulent though. Love your videos dude, keep up the amazing work!
@@mariofranco6201 Product does not mean anything, there are already FTC decisions describing Vemma as product based pyramid scheme, where over 80% of products were sold within its members only. It is like if you open a restaurant and eat 4 out of each 5 meals you sell, would like to see anyone succeeding with such a business. In my country we had a former Herbalife diamond commiting suicide. Not sure if in US you can check annual accounting report of these companies, but here I can and when you put it together and divide the annual sales by the enormous amount of its members, it is more than clear they are all just buying it for themselves, no demand from out of the organisation exists. Fun fact is, that for example around 30 000 Amway members in my country do sell less annually, than one Tesco store. MLM is beyond pathetic proposition.
@@hdfiuhl well there is somekind of clover HDI honey that we (me and my coworkers as well as my sister and her coworkers) found delicious but we hate the whole MLM thing and it being overpriced af. So what we (my sister and I) did was making downline upline of ourselves. the coworkers bought from the downline. the "bonus" are then split between us. It's still overpriced sure, but at least they weren't as outrageous as the original price. The HDI company and the upline tried to take us to their event, but we refused everytime suspecting brainwashing attempt lol.
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Buddy you got Robert on!!! This is awesome. I work with all the chambers of commerce across Canada and have been pushing them to ban MLM as business members. Trouble is even chambers want the membership revenue and those ppl tend to buy mucho event tickets. Great work 👏 👍 I watch every video ;)
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Reputation laundering is part of their business model. It's like the Better Business Bureau. If you pay them enough money, they'll shower you with all kinds of accolades and business awards.
If only our voice would have weight...
As a fellow Canadian, I would push as well.
Robert passing on wisdom to the next generation, loved this interview!
Fun fact/redemption story (not really, it was a proper pyramid scheme pretending to be a perfume company even though I managed to gain on it):
Almost a decade ago I joined an MLM because I'd noticed that their fireplace/oven cleaning agent was cheaper than competition's (I tested waters by ordering one through one of their really hyped victims who offered me their internal price on my first purchase). The product actually did its job really well, so I bought in and, after 10 months, I turned even on the "investment" (think Amazon prime because a product is cheaper online+free shipping). Later on I even ordered a few boxes of the stuff which "leveled me up" giving me access to discounts, some special deals and some fluff bullshit.
Unfortunately I never got to use those discounts because the company went bust like 5 years ago and I still clean my fireplace, oven, and recently forge with that dirt cheap cleaning agent.
LOL
Wear a respirator. Some of those agents are put on the market before the effects on the human body are really studied.
So how did you Gain? Did I miss something? You have a cleaning agent to clean your fireplace? What else did you gain?
lets all pray he survives to publish his book 🙏 this guys definitely made many enemies exposing all this
And you think he’s going to have a contract out on him?
He won't. Literally lobbiest and government has been caught up in corruption and fraud constantly. NSA and CIA have tools to push these stories out of the algorithm essentially shadow banning the information we get. I can't give exact examples but their are tons of stories that should be on some form of major media and you only find it if you search specific terms on search engines. USA/EU government bureaucracy us soft power to push agendas and pad their bank accounts.
@@AgriParker man too woke very wise
@@AgriParker Lol then why are we watching this video right now.
@@AgriParker I promise you the NSA and CIA do not care about mlms, the shady shit they do is much bigger and on behalf of much more powerful players than Amway.
I am just a failed academic in Japan ... resigned in protest from a tenured position 6 years ago, and have been unemployed ever since. But just thought I'd weight in my 2¥ worth ... that this show, and Mr. Fitzpatrick in particular are spot-on .... not just about MLMs or other scams in particular, but the dark side of human nature in general.
Back in 1975 or so, I was an undergrad at UNC-W, shifting from biology to philosophy as my major, and in search of myself. I was also a member of volunteer co-ed service fraternity, Alpha Phi Omega, mostly making money raising events to raise money for heart disease research, or doing volunteer projects on campus - for example, carrying books for the handicapped students.
For a brief time, my dorm room-mate was single-minded business major. I was a bit more academically 'gifted', so I promised to help him develop communication skills. He took me to an Amway meeting, and I could not help but feel a gut-level moral repulsion at the rising tide of prosperity theology, particularly in the deep South. I asked him why he had not joined Alpha Phi Omega to help those who could not help themselves. He justified devoting his energies to Amway as 'After I become wealthy, I will be in a position to better help others.' I suspect he has never become wealthy enough.
As a former educator, I am dismayed at the possibility that a genetic predisposition for 'dark triad' personality traits (pathological narcissism, machiavellian opportunism, and morphologically defined psychopathy) is more salient than good parenting or education, and the potential for personal moral growth is grossly overestimated.
Yes, the power of positive thinking didn't do much to help the Auschwitz prisoners, the Cambodians of Pol Pot's regime, or the Palestinians and Rohingya Muslims of today.
And yes, it is a cult. But even more pernicious ... with the gradual exposure of the dynamics of religious cults, the herding primate has made a cult out of science as it is being used to justify unscientific pandemic policies. Cartesian duality, at its best, is not an article of faith that fundamental reality is divided into 'subjective' and 'objective'. These are just provisional constructs to help us weed out human biases and perverse incentives from our observations of patterns in nature. Science, at its best, is a systematic, problem-solving process that is constantly making mistakes and self-correcting. At its worst, it is an institutionally sanctioned, authoritarian cult, as per the definitions Mr. Fitzpatrick laid out ...
1 - 'The Utopian Vision' ... ah, yes. Blinded by science of a perfect future. As if science will have much impact on a messy divorce or social shaming. Human nature capable of stripping us from the foibles of the dark side of human nature? Like trying to take a swig from a Klein Bottle.
2 - 'Proprietary Language' ... Of course. The STEM fields are necessarily broken up into niche research areas, each with their own statistics and mathematical models, theories, and assumptions ... few of which the general public are fluent in. Yet complex, multifaceted problems are reduced to a few high priests such such as Fauci, WHO, CDC ... and their churches of cherry picked research from Academia, Monsanto, DuPont, the Sackler Family, etc. Remember that time when 9 out of 10 doctors preferred the smooth taste of Camels? When was the last time any of us ran a regression analysis or questioned the p values of a quantitative analysis claimed as a justification pandemic policies that just, by chance, favor socialism for the rich, and extreme austerity for the rest of us? Bamboozled. Big time.
3 - Brain washing through persuasion ... Google/RUclips, Facebook, Twitter ... and their corporate mass media counterparts have been quite busy, scrubbing any scientific disagreements over whether a silver bullet of Big Pharma vaccines will save us. Even as I type this, history is being sculpted for perverse incentives. Articles and pages on websites I had saved since the beginning of the pandemic have been mysteriously 'disappeared'. The Library of Alexandria is on fire.
4 - Separate you from your community ... Yep. Here in Japan, like most of the world, doesn't it seem odd that while small, locally owned business ... particularly churches, pubs, and restaurants where community can meet ... are particularly susceptible to the virus? And schools, industrial production lines, bureaucratic functionaries, and delivery services are not? The policies are deliberately hollowing out not the middle class ... but rather the community as the default organization of humans as social primates. Like Amway ... science, politics, and business are busy trying to reduce the mass of humanity into 'herded primates' while a very few, safe in their gated communities, will be the 'herding primates' ... not so different from H.G. Wells' 'Molocks eating the Eloi' in 'The Time Machine'. Without
5 - Separate you from your own identity ... yes. Regardless of your criticial thinking skills, when you reject science as a faith, you are 'uneducated'. I think a good word for this is 'gas lighting'.
6 - Mystify it. Yep. The arcane specialized language and institutionally sanctioned authority has made priests out of the likes of Michio Kaku, Neil deGrasse Tyson, Jordon Peterson, etc. I'll take the likes of Chris Hedges, Cornel West, Noam Chomsky, Naomi Klein, William Blum, Howard Zinn, etc over them any day of the week. Or for that matter, Lee Camp, Jimmy Dore, or Joe Rogan.
There may be the potential for a cautionary warning to the young and naive ... but for many of us, as much as I like this broadcast, this, and Mr. Fitzpatrick's book, may be just preaching to the choir. I am less optimistic than Mr. Fitzpatrick because I no longer believe in social progress. Just social processes. The herd may be becoming more aware of MLM's, and in so doing, fall into the cult of science-as-a-blind-faith, rather than science as a process of carefully systematic, critical-thinking skills.
What most in the West don't realize is that Japan's public health system and pension is a giant ponzi scheme. The central Bank of Japan is following the U.S. Fed's policy of printing out tons of fiat currency as an excuse to shore up the 'public health'. Bullshit. The negative interest rates, the constant corruption and cover-ups at the top, and a draconian states-secrets law (you will find no Japanese equivalences of Julian Assange or Ed Snowden) ... have been pointing to a financial meltdown for years.
The bitch of it, I don't see a way out. As a species, we may have already passed the point of no return in breaching the malthusian limits of what happens when unlimited growing populations and their unlimited consumer driven aspirations meets the very real limits of natural resources upon which all real wealth is grounded. STEM is not going to extend our swarms to off-world resources in time.
Mr. Fitzpatrick is dead right, and echoes Chomsky. The U.S. is a single party corporate state (like China) with two faces, the Corporate Democrats and the Corporate Republicans. MLMs are not a partisan issue. Neither is science as the new religion. We are seeing a growing wealth gap because we are approaching the malthusian end game.
Don't take my word for it. Just find a summary of Karl Popper's 'The Open Society and its Enemies' ... probably the 20th century's most influential philosopher of science, and his dire warnings from his experience with the Nazi technocracy. But his warnings as well, will either fall on deaf ears, or also be preaching to the choir.
Will end with a hauntingly historic-prophetic passage ....
''Thus, Norse society’s structure created a conflict between the short-term interests of those in power, and the long-term interests of the society as a whole. Much of what the chiefs and clergy valued proved eventually harmful to the society. Yet the society’s values were at the root of its strengths as well as of its weaknesses. The Greenland Norse did succeed in creating a unique form of European society, and in surviving for 450 years as Europe’s most remote outpost. We modern Americans should not be too quick to brand them as failures, when their society survived in Greenland for longer than our English-speaking society has survived so far in North America. Ultimately, though, the chiefs found themselves without followers. The last right that they obtained for themselves was the privilege of being the last to starve.''
Diamond, Jared. Collapse (p. 276). Penguin Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.
Very astute comments and quotes. Thank you for sharing your Cassandra-call thoughts, experience and insights. Are you active on any social media platforms? I would like to introduce you to Rodger Hyodo on Facebook.
Very informative!!!
Someone took Tai Lopez's copywriting course...
@@davidnichol4735ChatGPT?
Great Interview! I was only 19 when I went to a Forever Living meeting and they all sounded brainwashed but it was very catching because of all the success stories, vacations to exotic locations, huge passive income etc. You just have to use your brain a little bit to realize this is a scam
It's distressing how MLMs take advantage of people especially young and struggling single moms.
Stop with the "struggling single mom" narrative. Stupid is as stupid does. They're in the position they are in because they are serial bad decision makers. Fools.
It’s a shame that this only have 485k views 2 years after originally uploaded. This information is so important because MLMs are still a huge issue.
Length of time is a turn off.
I still remember a coworker of mine in the military trying to sell me into that dream holiday pyramid scheme. So many of us made fun of him and tried to explain that it was a pyramid scheme and he didn't care.
The Amway goal : everyone selling Amway products to everyone else .
And everyone keeps and pays for unsold inventory at a penalty
Paid the FTC to call them a legitimate business 🙃
@@champbailey88 trump was an mlm with his "university" i guess
i even saw chuck norris doing commercials for them...
@@philmckay9973 ACN
When I hear that MLMs have bipartisan support I am reminded of the great George Carlin : The-word-bipartisan-usually-means-some-larger-than-usual-deception-is-being carried out.
Thank, thank, thank you!!! I could never articulate this info myself, what you have accomplished by revealing the truth!!! My son has been sucked into this, "SCAMWAY, OR SHAMWAY" cult, and I saw right through the CRAP this MLM is peddling!!! BUT sadly it is very difficult to combat this EVIL in helping my son to realize how he has been HOOD WINKED, so I will share this with him and hope he fairly gives it a listen! AGAIN, THANK YOU!!!
Good luck! Hope you can reach him before he gets too brainwashed... They are being programmed to believe anyone offering negative viewpoints on their new "business" are "Dream Stealers" and worse.
Hi hope he give it time and attention MLM is like a black hole once in event horizon range u get annihilated. I wish u strength and courage to u and ur son
My brother fell into amway in the 70s. …
@@helpyourcattodrive My best friend got dragged into it too sigh
Those researchers are heroes. I want to buy his book to appreciate
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If you haven't bought the book I actually really recommend it! Brilliantly written, has citations, really is an excellent source to learn about MLMs from.
This is THE most informative interview on youtube in terms of MLM information and mentality to this day. 3 years later I still quote this interview
Love these long-form interviews. Keep it up man!
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This guy is a wealth of knowledge on these scams. Great interview!
I actually found this more inspiring than depressing which was not what I expected, and that's because it points to a simple solution to a huge multitude of major problems. Remove the money from political process. Limitations on lobbying.
In "normal" countries lobbying is called bribing and is a criminal offense😂
In know Tupperware was a MLM but their products (at least the OG products of my childhood) were great and lasted. I've lost more Tupperware than I've had to discard because it wore out.
Possibly could be called a ‘Unicorn MLM’ where there is still a component of selling to customers rather than what most MLMs do - recruit other people to ‘sell’. Ie. Basically a home-based retail store vs a recruitment company!
I was in Amway for a few years in Fairbanks AK. I was told the real money was in the training system which consisted of books, tapes, and conferences. And that stuff messed up my mind for a few years even after I got out of it. They never taught real skills such as marketing strategies and salesmanship with closing. Those are at least skills you can use to make money.
Damn. How much $ did you lose at the end of it all?
My friend (RIP) loaned me one of those tapes. All i remember is the speaker sarcastically saying "So here you are, gonna sell me some soap again?" And the audience laughed. He also said "All the single women stand up! Now all the single men stand up!" As this was a way to hook you up with someone if anything
The greenscreen looks crisp and perfect on this video Coffee. Great job.
And excellent interview of course. Definitely expands more on what we already knew or suspected about MLMs.
Never realized it until I saw this comment. Hahahah
@@jayvideos6959
You thought he was actually filming in the Egyptian desert? 😜
This is one of my favorite, if not my absolute favorite interviews so far!
I've been involved with some MLM's in the past and never succeeded like my upline did. And I know exactly why.
It took me a while to figure out, but the business model and the way that I was taught to recruit people, rubbed me the wrong way and I was resistant to the methods.
All it got me was more debt and friends that didn't want to hang out with me any more. 😢 Fortunately I was able to redeem myself and they are still my friends.
Anyway...Robert's research and knowledge of the history, the industry and the way that politics has played a part in the continued promotion of MLM's is a real eye opener!
Great interview...just awesome! Good job, Coffee!
My in-laws got into a couple of MLMs. They would talk respectfully of their upline diamond. One day, we were at a theme park eating lunch and they were talking again about their upline. This time they said that their upline was being forced to move from their home.
"What?" I thought. How in the world does a Diamond level upline get "forced" to move from their home.
"It wasn't their dream home, they were just renting!"
That was the moment i started to wonder just how well the "1%" were doing.
The people at the tippity top were definitely doing well. But that is the 0.001%...
I know some very smart people involved in this MLM. Business people who help identify bottlenecks in businesses. People who pick corporations apart to optimize processes. They make money in the MLM, but at what cost? They tried to explain it to me, sell me on the products, but it never clicked. It’s not right. No one sells the products to people outside of the scheme.
Herbalife
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More false information
If they tell you they're making money they either 1) are lying or 2) got in early and are making money off the backs of their downline.
This was a terrific interview and I'm going to buy this book. I have it in pretty bad for MLM's and Robert really summarized a big part of why. I was particular interested to hear him speculate about why there hasn't been a documentary film about this. Seems like it'd be a no brainer. Someone signing up for an MLM and going undercover to make a movie about it would be fantastic.
Yeah!
the thing i find amazing is that no one bothers to do the simple math that shows if everyone recruits 5 people who recruit 5 people etc… it would only take 14 levels before you exceed the entire population of the planet
People simply don't understand exponential. They just think it means "really fast".
People learn about exponential functions in high school (or "middle school" as some places call it), and they teach it through examples of interest rates.
Then these people have the gall to say that school doesn't teach them useful life skills. No, they just weren't paying attention.
Good point!
They are huge problem in Utah, and the government here and community never seems to do anything about it. They start, get huge, make money and then boom....belly up. Over and over and over. The guys who start them here have massive mansions, in fact 3 of the most expensive homes in Utah for sale right now......all MLM guys. 25-48mil
Wow what an incredible video. I thought I knew a lot about MLMs but I never knew the political support thats backing it.this must be the best video on YT on this topic, 10 stars!
Dude is spot on about what has been happening since the seventies, and I agree that both sides of the political aisle have been at it and taking yuge amounts of money to allow it to happen. Along with strangling funds for public education so people stay ignorant.
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*1920s
@@binarysignals9593 Are you kidding? Google is IN ON IT... they get advertising funds.
@@dieselscience If they get enough negative publicity and enough complaints they will at least review it. The damaging PR would be a lot more damaging than losing the revenue these tin pot mercenaries generate generate with their barrel scraping bidding strategies.
Only thing is I don’t recall him ever mentioning what happened after the 12 years or so that he said the FTC didn’t do anything because Ford and then Reagan supported Amway.
45:00 - 56:00 It is absolutely, 100% a cult. 1:08:00 I, too, have seen families destroyed because an MLM member deemed their skeptical spouse to be a "negative influence". 1:10:16 Yes, but there's still a long, uphill battle. MLMs are aware and are fighting back. I am aware of one company that is even devious enough to have members publish books explaining why they are not an MLM.
Well done! This needs to be seen by as many people as possible. Robert is great and very knowledgeable person.
Sure the government is complicit but this is the cornerstone of America; anything that makes money is allowed to exist, no matter how morally or ethically decrepit until its legalized and socially normalized.
Just so you know a big a part of the coaches/scammers/new agers prosperity sellers have been trained through MLM. The first generation at least is mostly people like that, the whole thing is evolving.
Also Donald trump was spokesperson for ACN
I think this is your best episode so far its on the level of Joe Rogan and Valuetainment.
One of my best friends got sucked into a pyramid scheme, they were basically just getting people to pay 250 bucks for a thick book of life insurance business jargon, and then they tell you to go sell that book to everyone you know under the guise of “recruitment”
Are you ever going to address these kind of "new school" MLMs that instead of selling physical retail products, sell services such as mobile and internet subscriptions?
We have one in the UK called Utility Warehouse they wrap up all your utilities i.e. gas and electric, internet and home phone they throw in free energy saving lightbulbs etc.etc. they play on the fact that they are super convenient because you don't have to shop around for all these services and they have a celebrity endorsement in Joanna Lumley to target the older demographic. I'd have thought she'd be better than that.
They've always had something similar to that. In the 90's they had MLM's that sold long distance services. ACN was one of them and they are still around.
MLMs that sell services were always around it's just the amount that focus on products are generally more numerous
Look up "The Slave Circle" and Devil Corp. It's referring to those "marketing" jobs that hire young people to sell at Walmart/ Costco's and sometimes door to door. The only way to move up in these companies is to recruit people below you. All so you can open your own office and become a "business owner". They use all the same cult tactics/ guilt-tripping that MLMs do.
Now you are getting somewhere... step away from childish gurus and focus on who is making money by enabling them. good shit, good luck
Dude I'm so glad I stayed until the last half hour. My man is a legend. Salute to Robert Fitzpatrick and his work.
Excellent interview, it makes such a difference when the interviewer is this well informed on the subject.
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Respect to this man too, dedicating so much time to exposing this shit while everyone's trying to keep him down
Everybody needs to see this video. Shits unreal I hate everything I swear the more I watch the more I don't wanna watch.
Why does this video not have more views?! Love this guy. Love you both!
The real reason these continue is because many people who have been scammed in these types of businesses cannot admit it and don’t talk about it after the fact. They think it’s because they “didn’t try hard enough”
This is a really good interview. Super deep, and also interactive. Two guys who know the content well, wanting to get the information out there.
So the new age of RUclips ushered in the new version of MLM. It's just that with tech and its unlimited reach (given you have the ad budget), you don't get a pyramid, you get kinda a wide, super wide flat pyramid with tons of people losing money to one person.
More like a mastaba scheme 😕
This showed up in my feed. I haven't naturally worked my way back this far yet, but it is sad to see only 10k views. I think it is time to revisit this topic. I am going to read this book.
There needs to be a full documentary about all this.
Watch “Betting on zero” I believe it’s on Netflix.
There are many
There's one on Herbalife
I miss these hour long talks. But you do what you need to do man, cuz I appreciate it either way. I know the algorithm is particular
Exceptional episode. I have many years of experience within the industry itself and enjoyed the depth of Robert's perspectives. I particularly like the link made between the self empowerment teaching and a shaming culture. I'd say it's a level of shaming that most within that world are unaware of. I mean what could be wrong with building someone up to believe that more is possible for them? Lots more I could add. One thing, out of the high percentage of people that don't make any money, you'd be surprised at how many of those literally did nothing (not all MLM's require an initial investment to join or purchase product) so this idea of masses of 'victims' is not entirely the case. I look forward to the book.
Yeah. People call Avon an MLM, but I don’t see how because of reasons you stated. My mom did well with it in the early ‘80s.
By the way Coffee, could you do a video on Valuetainment and Patrick Bet-David? Not only has the channel turned into PragerU, his PHP "agency" is a huge MLM scheme.
Really???? I am following him for years now.
@@jayvideos6959 I was too, it took me a while to figure out. Go to Glassdoor and scroll past the obviously fake reviews, it's literally all people warning you that it's a scam. They try to convince you you'll get rich, and make you spend hundreds of dollars.
You say his channel turned into PragerU as if it were a bad thing lmfao
@@Monkofthecaribbean Well it used to be all about business not politics. So yes it's a bad thing.
@@stormsurge1850 I like him but his understanding of geo politics and economics is very lacking. I'm European and I cringe whenever he tries to explain anything outside of America. Very surprising for an Iranian refugee. Still though he does get interesting guests.
I m just commenting to boost the algorithm 💖💟💝
This is my favorite of the "interviews" episodes. This is scam beyond scams
Can't wait to read the books he recommended.
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100% is like a cult. That was actually the aspect that turned me off. Had an "interview" after my first job after high school eliminated my position, had been turned down by multiple other jobs and was kind of desperate. Everyone was super nice. Then when I went to the first meeting and it was like 20 people shoved into an apartment living room, it became super apparent that I was one of a couple people that were being recruited, and there was a lot of intense focus on me. They literally told us that if our family members don't support the venture, we need to cut off communication. It was insanity.
I think the point coffee was making about the think positive online marketers or “gurus” being the modern-day MLM is spot on. In less overt ways they are like MLMs... they promise transformation and certification from their “signature programme” after completing their course...but when you get out in the real world the certification means jack shit and didn’t teach you any actionable skills... so you have two options either you pay an extra 2k to learn more in the VIP level 2 programme or you start referring people to make back a portion of your investment (cause most of these courses conveniently have refer a friend programme) they don’t overtly talk about uplines and downlines but it’s essentially the same type of misrepresentation and fraud funnel. I wish there was actually a third party company to vouch for all these courses online to make it easier for buyers...
You also aren’t allowed to be negative. If you say you’re not making money, you’ll get iced out as a toxic person, so everyone assumes everyone else is making money because that’s what they say is happening because that’s what their “manifesting”
Man I wish I knew this 7 years ago
Another factor that made it easy to believe there was such a thing as a good MLM was the tech boom at the same time. One could imagine an MLM selling a really revolutionary product like personal computers or the iPhone and being the quickest way to get the word out about it because of how quickly it can scale, even if it never actually happened.
Can't wait to listen to this at work tomorrow!
Did you know that you can great money working from home?
@@johnrussell9857 relax dude
1:04:20 well as someone who has friends who work in herbalife
after the bill ackman bet , herbalife changed so that now distributors had to log in what they sold into the system or else they were not going to be able to reap the rewards, what did people do? they order the product and just logged in sales that had not happened yet and so the scheme continued thats when a lot of people began exiting herbalife bc that was an eye opener and also many people are not tech savy so they just gave up and left the company
Great interview i enjoyed it alot, he is basically the first coffeezilla and this needs to be shared as widely as possible so people dont fall victims
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48:00 Spot on! I went to a couple of Amway events and this is exactly what they told me (Belief-> Behavior-> Business). They fail to disclose that the business is a calculated trap.
Massive in my parents church group in the 90's. Church members are the best pyramid to work through.
this definitely needs to be shared. a very historical conversation to be noted against rising perpetuation of MLM.
82 minutes long and I couldn't stop watching. Excellent