Great test! Interesting results. Who would have thought that the Punch, in such a short barrel, could actually penetrate more than 15'' of gel + the kitty litter jug filled with water? Amazing. The Stinger in the short barrel seems to be a perfect small game round.
You're calling it under penetration but that's because it expends ALL of it energy really early which is effective for major damage whereas a punch could go through with little destruction so of course it comes down to location of the hit, stingers are excellent for small game, they both do a specific task
It would be. Rifle or pistol, velocitors were the go to for me if I was going to use a 22lr for carry or home defense until the Punch came out. I still prefer the Velocitors even over the punch if I were to use a 22lr rifle for home defense.
Thanks Dave…….I’ve seen several videos on the punch and they seem to always penetrate pretty deep. As for the stinger it’s a good varmint round which is what it’s marketed for but not so much for self defense. 👍👍
22Plinkster shot a CCI .22LR Stinger out of a rifle and it went through both sides of a titanium golf club. Your video just shows it's not that great out of a handgun. I tried them out of a Walther P22 and got a lot of flash along with powder burns around the side of the plastic. The CCI Stinger needs a longer barrel to perform well. The punch is much better through a shorter barrel.
Agreed. I want all energy left in the target. That's why the stingers didn't preform that poorly. I .22 lr passing through the target is not optimal IMO.
I found those Stingers to be pretty impressive to open up that much and still get 7". I know the whole 12-18" thingy deems 7" to be inadequate...but depending on the size of a threat, 7" might really do a number depending on shot placement. If I place a ruler to myself at a profile, 7" is going to go beyond the middle of my mid-section provided there's no bone being hit. I'm glad you did finally note its size and put the caliper to it.
The gel block isn't meant to perfectly mimic the human body, it's meant to be a consistent test medium that is an analog for real world performance. The 12-18 rule is based on how the gel tests translate to the real world. Rounds that consistently reach 12"+ have consistently performed well in real world shootings. When we're talking about the energy .22lr produces out of a handgun barrel, maximizing penetration is all that really matters.
@@fancyhitchpin8675 Yeah, and it's just one of many possible standards. And yes sure, it's become the one that everyone puts comparisons against these days, but has a ton of flaws when it comes to consistently measuring performance. Depending on what the target's form is & composition & shot-placement, even with .22LR, expansion could arguably be WAY more important than penetration. Poking .22" holes might have better outcome in some situations, but having it expand and travel 7" might be much more damaging in others. There's no definitive either/or when it comes to penetration vs expansion.
@@ShastaBean There may be a better standard IDK, but in the case of sub 100ft/lbs energy, prioritizing penetration over expansion will absolutely give the best probability of useful damage.
@@fancyhitchpin8675 the word "absolutely" is absurd. For example, if a person is interested in selling pelts...does having a through-and-through exit hole in the fur, and the animal still trying to bite you because of almost no tissue damage give you "best probability of useful damage"? I can think of lots of examples where expansion, even if only 7" into gel, is way more desirable than whistling a 40gr projectile out of a 5.7x28, 22WMR or .22LR straight through a target. For that same 40gr projectile, you are talking about 3300 fps and still under 1000 ft-lbs...That standard you are suggesting sounds completely made-up and frankly, quite fictional.
@@ShastaBean My absolutely statement was referring to general self defense, so including, if not primarily, human threats. If we are talking exclusively about threats that are small enough to stomp on, then the stingers will be adequate, if not superior.
What's a point of that super deep penetration? Laser vs grande.... what would do more organ damage? With 5 rounds from silver tip in a stomach there will be mashed potato instead of intestines vs 5 tiny holes through from federal punch. It's like 9mm Civil deffense vs 9mm fmj.... one would tear organs inside like micro grenade and dump all the energy in the body vs other will go through with a moderate hole The only I see super penertation is better than segmented/ expanding round is when shooting straight into the forehead
Maybe I missed the stated purpose of this test, but how did the Stinger's "severely under-penetrate"? They're designed for squirrels and other varmints, so they penetrated exactly as they should. With the Punch being designed to penetrate humans, it probably did too good of a job.
I was want to know have you ever tested the 22 long rifle in a Winchester vomit load another $23 of box for 50 rounds. I was just wondering if there's any good
The stinger will still “F” up something. KelTec P17 has 3.8” length barrel with no gas loss. That will make a huge difference in all 3 rounds. I wouldn’t want to be shot with any of these.
Try the aguila interceptor fmj instead of the stinger much better all around round than the stinger but the stinger shines in its own ways just not self defense ways
.22 Stinger dumped all it's energy in 7 inches made the biggest hole , I think it's the winner ! You didn't try the CCI mini mags they are solid point ammo too ! IMO
I agree. That in my mind would make a person stop being mean and make him stop. My idea is not to kill someone but to stop them from wanting to go further
7 inches gel penetration is insufficient. If bone is struck, vital organs will likely be unscathed. Since we Americans are too well fed, the Stinger will probably contend with several inches of fat. So the Punch is looking good. MiniMags solids are also a good choice as they are very reliable due to quality priming compound and properly crimped bullets. If Remington priming wasn't so crappy, the truncated cone solid Vipers would be great. If you can find them,CCI Velocitor are reliable penetrators.Subcompact autos are not reliable with. 22lr. 8 to10 shot revolvers are available. If recoil is problematic,one might consider a snubby loaded with .38spl wadcutters.
So far its most' effective 22 lr round fedral Punch is humm' , surpassed stinger hp so .. humm' the difference is s little but i didn't know' that ammo exzisted punch short solid nose humm' in 29 grains would do 1550 out my rifle 1600 18 in barrol b-a Savage...
my .22 cents worth., I'll take the stinger expansion. hits in the face and groin of a human will be effective. especially 15 or so rounds dumped in few seconds.
Stingers is a hunting rd and the expansion is what u want. Iam sure u will reach the vitals on a human and with several rds fired it will stop the threat.☠️
A good self defense round makes a large wound and stays in the target. Over penetration is bad because anything behind the target, will be hit by the round. Thats bad. Federal ballistics testing states 12 inches of penetration is ideal. For a self defense round in an urban encounter. I dont have a hand in the race. I dont own nor have i used any of these rounds. Based on your testing, i would buy the Silvertip if i have to rely on a 22lr for a selfe defense round.
Stingers are for hunting med sized game and not home defence. Most people dont use 22 for home defence maby a little old lady that cant handle the recoil of a 38nor 380 hahahaha. Punch would be the worst 22 ammo you can get for hunting small game
On small game, bullet diameter (initial as well as final expanded) is going to be gigantic relative to what it is on a human. The Stingers will absolutely destroy small game, I'm confident. Punch might not be as effective, although I think shot placement will be more relevant. In any case, most of the energy will be wasted with Punch as it is clearly designed to penetrate very deeply and there is no such depth to a squirrel or even most rabbit species. On Coyote, which I think of as "medium" game, either one should work ok out of a rifle. Not sure you could get within pistol range unless a sick, or very preoccupied animal (e.g., if the coyote was fighting with your dog).
Great test! Interesting results. Who would have thought that the Punch, in such a short barrel, could actually penetrate more than 15'' of gel + the kitty litter jug filled with water? Amazing. The Stinger in the short barrel seems to be a perfect small game round.
I'm glad I have Federal Punch & CCI Mini Mag for deterent purposes !
Hope everyone had a wonderful day today and a lovely evening 💙
Thanks for the testing. I would prefer the stinger for the impressive expension which should create more damage.
You're calling it under penetration but that's because it expends ALL of it energy really early which is effective for major damage whereas a punch could go through with little destruction so of course it comes down to location of the hit, stingers are excellent for small game, they both do a specific task
True.
finally a stinger vs punch vs silvertips video
In my LCP 2 22lr, I can feel a big difference going from bulk ammo to punch. The sound, recoil and fireball from the muzzle. Heck of a hot load.
If you can get them to feed reliably... neither of my autos like the Punch, but the revolver really drives them deep!
They run fine through my Walther P22. Very accurate also.
@@GeographyCzar
Nice review. Thank you. Regardless of what anyone prefers the ballistics info is invaluable.
I load Federal Punch and CCI Stinger back to back in magazines
I wonder if the Velocitor wouldn't be a a better choices then the Stinger
It would be. Rifle or pistol, velocitors were the go to for me if I was going to use a 22lr for carry or home defense until the Punch came out. I still prefer the Velocitors even over the punch if I were to use a 22lr rifle for home defense.
I don’t know about your conclusion. I could see that expanded Stinger from space. 😀
I didn’t think it would fully expand out of a 3” barrel.
Very nice, thanks for another fine 22 Tuesday.
Thanks Dave…….I’ve seen several videos on the punch and they seem to always penetrate pretty deep. As for the stinger it’s a good varmint round which is what it’s marketed for but not so much for self defense. 👍👍
22Plinkster shot a CCI .22LR Stinger out of a rifle and it went through both sides of a titanium golf club. Your video just shows it's not that great out of a handgun. I tried them out of a Walther P22 and got a lot of flash along with powder burns around the side of the plastic. The CCI Stinger needs a longer barrel to perform well. The punch is much better through a shorter barrel.
Flat point of carefully selected meplat, sectional density, and velocity for the win. Its an old formula because it works.
Well said
The Silvertip would be my pick: The wound track from what I could see looked pretty nasty and almost 12 inches penetration is excellent.
Agreed
Agreed. I want all energy left in the target. That's why the stingers didn't preform that poorly. I .22 lr passing through the target is not optimal IMO.
@@fondolon having at least 12” of penetration is more important than amount of damage.
Well in the other hand sylver tip its the best choices because it opens makes cavitie and penetrates as well
Interesting, enlightening head-to-head comparison, Dave. Thanks!
I found those Stingers to be pretty impressive to open up that much and still get 7". I know the whole 12-18" thingy deems 7" to be inadequate...but depending on the size of a threat, 7" might really do a number depending on shot placement. If I place a ruler to myself at a profile, 7" is going to go beyond the middle of my mid-section provided there's no bone being hit. I'm glad you did finally note its size and put the caliper to it.
The gel block isn't meant to perfectly mimic the human body, it's meant to be a consistent test medium that is an analog for real world performance. The 12-18 rule is based on how the gel tests translate to the real world. Rounds that consistently reach 12"+ have consistently performed well in real world shootings. When we're talking about the energy .22lr produces out of a handgun barrel, maximizing penetration is all that really matters.
@@fancyhitchpin8675 Yeah, and it's just one of many possible standards. And yes sure, it's become the one that everyone puts comparisons against these days, but has a ton of flaws when it comes to consistently measuring performance. Depending on what the target's form is & composition & shot-placement, even with .22LR, expansion could arguably be WAY more important than penetration. Poking .22" holes might have better outcome in some situations, but having it expand and travel 7" might be much more damaging in others. There's no definitive either/or when it comes to penetration vs expansion.
@@ShastaBean There may be a better standard IDK, but in the case of sub 100ft/lbs energy, prioritizing penetration over expansion will absolutely give the best probability of useful damage.
@@fancyhitchpin8675 the word "absolutely" is absurd. For example, if a person is interested in selling pelts...does having a through-and-through exit hole in the fur, and the animal still trying to bite you because of almost no tissue damage give you "best probability of useful damage"? I can think of lots of examples where expansion, even if only 7" into gel, is way more desirable than whistling a 40gr projectile out of a 5.7x28, 22WMR or .22LR straight through a target. For that same 40gr projectile, you are talking about 3300 fps and still under 1000 ft-lbs...That standard you are suggesting sounds completely made-up and frankly, quite fictional.
@@ShastaBean My absolutely statement was referring to general self defense, so including, if not primarily, human threats. If we are talking exclusively about threats that are small enough to stomp on, then the stingers will be adequate, if not superior.
I have no problem with Stingers from a 1.7/8 barrel because they aren't going to expand anyway.
What's a point of that super deep penetration? Laser vs grande.... what would do more organ damage?
With 5 rounds from silver tip in a stomach there will be mashed potato instead of intestines vs 5 tiny holes through from federal punch.
It's like 9mm Civil deffense vs 9mm fmj.... one would tear organs inside like micro grenade and dump all the energy in the body vs other will go through with a moderate hole
The only I see super penertation is better than segmented/ expanding round is when shooting straight into the forehead
Punch would do more damage because it would actually reach the things worth damaging.
Maybe I missed the stated purpose of this test, but how did the Stinger's "severely under-penetrate"? They're designed for squirrels and other varmints, so they penetrated exactly as they should. With the Punch being designed to penetrate humans, it probably did too good of a job.
I bet the Cci did the most damage cause it expanded the punch is no different then a 40 grain solid
What was the range of test in yards for the gel test, THX!
Great video sir!!
If the standard is layers of denim, why would you not go with that?
Now you need to redo this video with Punch vs Silvertip vs the new Cci Uppercut 👍
I was want to know have you ever tested the 22 long rifle in a Winchester vomit load another $23 of box for 50 rounds. I was just wondering if there's any good
Could you do this same test, but with wood, several 2 x 4s? Fed punch, stingers, and maybe a standard mini mag or Aguila.
That punch is some expensive ammo in my neck of the woods.
10.99 worth it it is so reliable in a semi auto
Both buds and midway USA have it in stock 8.99 a box free shipping with $50+ (offer66666) from midway.
Only 9 bucks for box of 50 in Cali and preforms pretty damn good
$15 here in NYC
Work some overtime 🤔
The stinger will still “F” up something. KelTec P17 has 3.8” length barrel with no gas loss. That will make a huge difference in all 3 rounds. I wouldn’t want to be shot with any of these.
Federal Punch and Stinger cases are a bit longer than standard long rifle cases.
Try the aguila interceptor fmj instead of the stinger much better all around round than the stinger but the stinger shines in its own ways just not self defense ways
If it's a 22 LR and I need it for serious use of any kind whatsoever it will be loaded with velocitors.
I would love to have the punch in 22 Magnum, but can never find any.
.22 Stinger dumped all it's energy in 7 inches made the biggest hole , I think it's the winner ! You didn't try the CCI mini mags they are solid point ammo too ! IMO
I agree. That in my mind would make a person stop being mean and make him stop. My idea is not to kill someone but to stop them from wanting to go further
7 inches gel penetration is insufficient. If bone is struck, vital organs will likely be unscathed. Since we Americans are too well fed, the Stinger will probably contend with several inches of fat. So the Punch is looking good. MiniMags solids are also a good choice as they are very reliable due to quality priming compound and properly crimped bullets. If Remington priming wasn't so crappy, the truncated cone solid Vipers would be great. If you can find them,CCI Velocitor are reliable penetrators.Subcompact autos are not reliable with. 22lr. 8 to10 shot revolvers are available. If recoil is problematic,one might consider a snubby loaded with .38spl wadcutters.
You all do not understand ballistics one bit,
Penetration is most important
A pistol barrel unless 5 inches wont even deform a 22 hollowpoint. Try the CCI Velocitor.
So far its most' effective 22 lr round fedral Punch is humm' , surpassed stinger hp so .. humm' the difference is s little but i didn't know' that ammo exzisted punch short solid nose humm' in 29 grains would do 1550 out my rifle 1600
18 in barrol b-a Savage...
I don’t buy 22lr if it’s slower than 1400 fps. I’ve never had a feed issue when using stuff that fast.
yes and in a bersa thunder 22 you need even more velocity
yes, and in mine too
Winchester silvertips are the least accurate ammo of anything Ive tested in all my rimfires. Sometimes I get some ridiculous extreme flyers.
my .22 cents worth., I'll take the stinger expansion. hits in the face and groin of a human will be effective. especially 15 or so rounds dumped in few seconds.
29 grain short bullet in a long rifle case = the old .22 Long
Well, the LR case is higher pressure I believe, but basically, yes.
👍
Stingers is a hunting rd and the expansion is what u want. Iam sure u will reach the vitals on a human and with several rds fired it will stop the threat.☠️
A good self defense round makes a large wound and stays in the target. Over penetration is bad because anything behind the target, will be hit by the round. Thats bad. Federal ballistics testing states 12 inches of penetration is ideal. For a self defense round in an urban encounter. I dont have a hand in the race. I dont own nor have i used any of these rounds. Based on your testing, i would buy the Silvertip if i have to rely on a 22lr for a selfe defense round.
i agree
It didn’t overpenetrate
Disagree Winchester wins. Excellent penetration plus fragmentation. Better for self-defense. Federal punch will go through too many walls in your 🏠
Disagreement is welcomed here!
I mean, that Punch ammo just aint no f'ing about smh. Follow ups with Stinger rounds and ya got yourself a defense clip.
It's called a magazine.
Stinger won that your wrong
Stingers are for hunting med sized game and not home defence. Most people dont use 22 for home defence maby a little old lady that cant handle the recoil of a 38nor 380 hahahaha. Punch would be the worst 22 ammo you can get for hunting small game
On small game, bullet diameter (initial as well as final expanded) is going to be gigantic relative to what it is on a human. The Stingers will absolutely destroy small game, I'm confident. Punch might not be as effective, although I think shot placement will be more relevant. In any case, most of the energy will be wasted with Punch as it is clearly designed to penetrate very deeply and there is no such depth to a squirrel or even most rabbit species. On Coyote, which I think of as "medium" game, either one should work ok out of a rifle. Not sure you could get within pistol range unless a sick, or very preoccupied animal (e.g., if the coyote was fighting with your dog).
@@GeographyCzar So true. A unfired 22lr bullet placed next to a rabbit's leg is like placing a unfired 30mm cannon bullet next to human's leg.
Defense
Punch is worthless for self defense in a pistol
Explain
🤔🥸
Federal Punch won't run in either of my LCP2s!
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