You sir are a fantastic interviewer!! This was excellent! I wish the algorithm would have pushed this to me sooner. I got a lot out of hearing his perspectives which flowed from your thoughtful questions. I also appreciate seeing all of the comments, and how the interview is landing with folks. 👍👍👍👍
I know huh. He took the hull cracking as if it needed to be sealed like a new frying pan. Rather than it being a sign that the fibers were weakening in the hull. The ignorance is frightening. This was going to end in death eventually, sadly.
One fiber at a time breaking, transferring load to the remaining fibers.. at no time knowing how many have broken so far and how many are left.. seems to me a single fiber breaking is no good. maybe a 10 inch hull would have been better, or perhaps a 1 or 2 inch titanium cylinder inside the carbon fiber to give it some backing.. even if the sub was bigger to add more displacment to counter the weight. How bout some cross bracing inside?
Isn't it though!? That must be Rush's idea of reverse engineering. He installed sensors in the hull to alert him of the crackling sound. A little late to do something about it now. Remember when cars came equipped with 'idiot lights'? I guess Rush figured he would just pull the tub over, pop the hood and replace a fuse. I'm surprised he didn't install a smoke detector too.
@@sincoLT-cd1nt The funny thing is that the alarm did work and even very good, but they ignored it. During dive 80 the system told them about the broken hull plus there was a loud bang. Dive 88 is when it imploded. //typo
Pogue's jaunty juvenile behavior gave viewers false assurance that it was safe. He acted like a little kid instead of a serious analyst. He embarrassed himself then and he embarrasses himself yet today as he won"t admit that OceanGate was reckless and unprofessional, and his "adventure" was idiotic. This was NOT science. The DNA water test can be conducted without five people (of ANY people). He's a likeable fool who should have been more skeptical, probing, and prosecutorial. Instead he acted like a goofball. He's an unserious man who squandered his duty to tell it straight about a DEADLY SERIOUS subject. He's an idiot. He still CHUCKLES in this interview. That's childish.
"The WEAK fibers had already died." This has got to be one of the dumbest things to ever be said to try to explain away that rather than the sub is gradually breaking apart, it is ACTUALLY merely getting broken-in and all of the unnecessary weak strands are just dying a quick and sudden death. If Stockton was telling me that, my immediate question would have been, "How do you know those weren't the STRONG fibers dying? Or, how can you be sure those weren't fibers that were needed to maintain the strength of the hull?" Pure absurdity.
Yeah i think i'll listen to the people in the industry,not a fanboy like David. Stockton was told that 1. Carbon Fibre wasn't suitable for that amount of pressure and 2. Putting two different materials together like Titanium and Carbon Fibre (like Stockton did) was a BAD idea!!!
Someone else who road that thing said they heard loud banging and flexing. An it was so loud and intense they emailed Stockton he would not be able to markert it because of fear
And wasn't the hull wrapped with one long strand? At what point did Rush see it being wound and think, "Wow this is going to be great once that fiber snaps in a bunch of places"
Ya or “how much does the load increase on the holding fibers as the weak fibers fail? Has the sub been tested to the same depths after each break? What has been the fiber attrition rate and how many need to hold”? Folks have said that fibers could be heard popping with each dive. Sounds as if they keep reusing a disposable product.
@@jone8626he drank the kool aid. I don't know who any of these two, this was just disgusting and his smile all the time. He sounded so ignorant sorry, the Titanic was known by the survivor stories, Cameron wasn't the first movie. Both needs to do some research. The Titanic families do not agree to this trips.
Everyone needs to calm down. Five people died doing something knowingly dangerous. Whilst sad, this is a story because of the intrigue of the Titanic and the celebrity of the participants. People die every day doing things which are dangerous. Be careful of wishing for ever more regulation. Instead, make informed decisions. There would be no way I would be going on that sub but then again I wouldn't ski down a hill and I bet more than 5 people die every hour doing that.
Hamish Harding and PH were members of the Explorer Club along with Victor Vescovo, James Cameron and others. So if there were any concerns, they knew about it. Victor gave a interview saying that alerted him. Even so, he decided to go. Why David Pogue would think if was that dangerous? David said that those concerns by the deep diving community was not public in the past
As opposed to all the other times I have watched David Pogue speak on this matter this is the first time where he actually sounds enchanted by Stockton Rush and his folly.
Imagine that he's STILL kissing Stocktons ass despite the implosion...deaths and every scientist..expert and engineer pointing out how it was always going to fail 🙄. This guy chugged the dam kool-aid and still believes every lie. This guy clearly isn't a intelligent man ..talking about weak fibres snapping implying it's science 😂 we shouldn't be giving him air time
Exactly Nancy. For one, it seems to me that to bill it as a scientific trip was to play to these rich people's egos (i.e. make them think they were doing something important), or if not that, to blatantly bolster Rush's efforts to sell tickets (i.e. he included a scientific element in a bid to raise the company's image as a serious player). Any scientific work surrounding the Titanic has surely been done by now, hasn't it, probably using much-better cameras/ grab arms etc? I'm just not sure how a few people sitting in a washing-machine tub fitted with budget equipment and looking at the Titanic for 20-40 minutes could constitute a scientific endeavour, whoever is onboard. It's almost offensive to those who've done it properly to suggest it quite frankly, and I suspect if he hadn't been on the Titan on its fateful trip, Mr Nargeolet may have been feeling a little guilty that he got sucked-in to SR's vortex right now. RIP though.
Pogue's jaunty juvenile behavior gave viewers false assurance that it was safe. He acted like a little kid instead of a serious analyst. He embarrassed himself then and he embarrasses himself yet today as he won"t admit that OceanGate was reckless and unprofessional, and his "adventure" was idiotic. This was NOT science. The DNA water test can be conducted without five people (of ANY people). He's a likeable fool who should have been more skeptical, probing, and prosecutorial. Instead he acted like a goofball. He's an unserious man who squandered his duty to tell it straight about a DEADLY SERIOUS subject. He's an idiot. He still CHUCKLES in this interview. That's childish.
In innovative engineering you learn more from your failures than you do from your successes. You can’t have the success without first having some failures
@drdrew3 hi drew agree with your opinion however when involving paying passengers you have to possess a safe product , you simply cannot risk the lives of the general public , that's why testing & certification exists
The guy was a genius the fact he built something that worked 20 times is what you all should be talking about it was innovative he was brilliant we don't truly know why it broke it could be something simple but because these people died it shouldn't take away from how smart and innovative the man was
He really bought everything Stockton told him and still buys it unbelievably. He was touting the audio system warning them of crackling just like Rush. I thought what Cameron said about that audio system was right in that it doesn't matter if you have a warning system to tell you about your poor design. What matters is that the design is correct in the first place without relying on a warning system when you are already that deep in the ocean.
YEAH!!!! I agree that James Cameron gives the BEST EXPLANATION!!!!! He said, on Monday, he was a way when he heard & mentioned that it was a small community & ALL of them KNEW that they sadly perished!!! AND along with those whom he was with they gave a toast at supper time. He must've been on some excursion, cause he had no clue that they were STILL searching & giving these families ESSENTIALLY false hope!!!! And has stated there wasn't no search the way it has said in the media. And James Cameron was correct on everything!!!! The only thing, we now know, is that ALL the passengers wouldn't have known & the submersible just incinerated!!! That's given some sadly 'cold comfort' especially family members of the 19yr old son, who was indeed scared BUT also wanted to do this for his father. I wasn't aware til gosh, maybe last week, that the billionaire who wz killed, wz supposed 2b going with 1 of his billionaire friends, BUT he too back out, as it got closer.
I saw & really wanted 2 watch that in 2018, some1 in that community wrote a letter 2b sent 2 OceanGate. I'd say, it gve the most & best understanding, how many times, ppl tried 2 warn Stockton. in the submersible community who had real concerns. There wz sum legal reason, this letter could not be sent which is confusing, but he still had. This man stated that this wz gonna end in a catastrophe. I wz surprised at how many submersibles hve bin built & used!!! BUT each has bin CERTIFIED except Stockton's Titan!! ( It wldn't hve passed!) I 4got James Cameron has gone 2 the Titanic 30x!!! AND equally on a differ show, that he also has gone 3x below the Titanic BUT he's STILL NOT comfortable taking oths + his is a solo submersible. I didn't realize how they differ from submarines!!! They can go MUCH deeper than a submarine!!! I now think probably why sum of the media coverage has bin misleading is I 4got, it wld've taken days 2 drive 400 miles off of St. John's, Newfoundland 2 where the Titanic is below. I think, it wz prety choppy getting there. I also didn't know they differ in that a submersible unlike a submarine has 2b taking out & is attached 2 an apparatus from where its let go & that's whom Rush communicated w/ every 1/2 hr BUT an hr & 1/2 in the comms went & they didn't hear from them again. They do know now, that the bang actualy isn't related. But It wz still found, at the last location known, that James Cameron said it would b. I didn't take in2 acct the time 4 the U.S & Cdn Coast Guard 2 get 2 that spot. Ppl 4 sum very legitimate reasons hve struggled w/ how much effort & media attn this has gotten. Hving said, that, I do get why they still did, if there wz any chance they said, they were near the surface of the ocean & died due 2 lack of air & 2 hve not gone out & found that they could've b saved wld b worse. I wz shocked that they had 2b bolted in from the outside. I DO think in the long run, sadly, as James Cameron said, its another ex: of HUBRIS & ARROGANCE! I felt better about the overall industry, knowing that there is around 30 submersibles, who have NEVER failed, BUT they are ALL CERTIFIED except 4 the Titan!!! There are sum legal Q's due 2 the where the Titanic lies, is the trans Atlantic & not a part of any country. Sadly, I don't think Stockton wld've ever listened 2 any1 BUT as result those who died, did not hve all the facts & were sold a false sense of security.
Actually the acoustic warning system did work. It gave them more than 20 minutes of warning according to the transcript. It was the electrical system that failed and some unexplained loss of buoyancy. I'm sure they will find out in time exactly what happened.
Pogue's jaunty juvenile behavior gave viewers false assurance that it was safe. He acted like a little kid instead of a serious analyst. He embarrassed himself then and he embarrasses himself yet today as he won"t admit that OceanGate was reckless and unprofessional, and his "adventure" was idiotic. This was NOT science. The DNA water test can be conducted without five people (of ANY people). He's a likeable fool who should have been more skeptical, probing, and prosecutorial. Instead he acted like a goofball. He's an unserious man who squandered his duty to tell it straight about a DEADLY SERIOUS subject. He's an idiot. He still CHUCKLES in this interview. That's childish.
That’s exactly what I was thinking. I mean, he didn’t even blink when NASA was mentioned, but if he had done even basic due diligence he would have found that NASA is not completely in the business of safety certifying deep ocean submersibles, and that Rush refused to allow his sub to be safety certified by the people who were in the business of doing just that! And at about 12:10, Kantrowitz simply accepted Pogue’s completely disingenuous example positing that _all_ existing subs are prototypes, and that they _all_ have had problems, instead of saying yes, that’s true, but all of the other “one-offs” were safety certified and that none of them has had any loss of life!!! WTF??
Exactly like the MASS MEDIA with the increasingly LEFT LEANING DEMOCRATIC POLITICAL PARTY!! Haven't decided if this is EVIL people blindly following increasingly out-of-touch ELITEST AUTHORITY CON MEN (the DEMOCRATIC ELITE), or the entire system so blindly follows what they thought was "the good guys", but realistically EVIL FORCES are driving the DEMOCRATIC PARTY at the top!! I'm not saying THE REPUBLICAN PARTY is flawless , but Conservatives expect TRUTH and the BIDEN ADMINISTRATION has clearly abandoned TRUTH long ago... Back to the TITAN... Carbon Fiber is GOOD for pressurization (aircraft use) but not acceptable for COMPRESSIVE FORCES. This material Science is clearly understood and yet STOCKTON RUSH continued without regard for anything except his personal glory!! I don't this was a GREED driven problem with Stockton Rush, it was clearly NARCISSISTIC FAME and GLORY!!
@@eddykidd He had the experience of a lifetime. He can write books, do media interviews for the rest of his life about this, it's the ching ching bells going off in his head, he's going to be rich and relevant when he wasn't before. No wonder he seems so happy about it.
Good interview. Rush targetted the perfect journalist: enthusiastic fanboy happy to eat up the Oceangate PR; totally missing the fundamental safety issues the company hired lawyers to bury. Also missed the crucial legal reasoning for calling tourist passengers "mission specialists".
The average person doesn’t know much about deep water exploration or how dangerous it could be or how submersible’s should be built. I didn’t know anything until this happened. Life is a big learning experience. Clearly rush was convincing. I’m sure he assured everyone this this thing was safe. Clearly he did.
Somehow i think this guy is really trying to justify why he actually was Looney enough to go down in that thing. He says, "Well I don't think it gave way bcuz of the carbon fiber hull" Why not just admit that you were drinking Stockton's Kool aid to get a story, David and that thing didn't explode on your trip. You know damn well you would not get in another submersible built out of anything Stockton was using. 😂😂
I’m sure in Rush’ mind the trip he brought David Pogue along was going to be the best free advertising he could get, not an unbiased opinion that painted them as they really were.
Great scoop for an interview. The problem with David’s argument for all the testing that was supposedly done by Rush is that this is just based on what Rush told him. I’ve seen reports that many of Rush’s claims were untrue. For example, the Titan only made it to the Titanic 13 times, not 20.
I don’t know where you read 20. They always said 6 dives in 2021, 7 dives in 2022 (or the other way around) and the last deadly trip was the first one of season 2023
Yeah, everyone was told a bunch of baloney and believed it. What's amazing to me is that people like Pogue STILL seem to believe this baloney despite all the information now out there to the contrary.
I used to like reading Pogue when he wrote for the NYT, but seeing and hearing his commentary in the wake of this disaster caused me to lose respect for him. If I were in his shoes and had unwisely risked my life in that death trap, I think I'd have kept as quiet as possible about it because I'd be embarrassed that I'd exercised such poor judgment. The information was available to him before the disaster. "He told us he'd designed it in collaboration with NASA"?? Come on, David. That's worthless information.
I'd still respect him if he just said he unwisely misjudged. Everyone makes mistakes. It is however inexcusable to still defend the poorest decisions as if we were talking about the Einstein of deep submerging vessels.... He somehow, mysteriously enough, almost seems to have become MORE defensive and in favour of the failed sub ever since it descended the last time. I'm guessing it's quite a bit of guilt and survivorship bias mixed in with the reporting, which is why he seems more defensive AFTER the accident than before it, as he feels the need to defend himself in a way as well, now that his name is connected to the story
Pogue's jaunty juvenile behavior gave viewers false assurance that it was safe. He acted like a little kid instead of a serious analyst. He embarrassed himself then and he embarrasses himself yet today as he won"t admit that OceanGate was reckless and unprofessional, and his "adventure" was idiotic. This was NOT science. The DNA water test can be conducted without five people (of ANY people). He's a likeable fool who should have been more skeptical, probing, and prosecutorial. Instead he acted like a goofball. He's an unserious man who squandered his duty to tell it straight about a DEADLY SERIOUS subject. He's an idiot. He still CHUCKLES in this interview. That's childish.
David at the end honestly expresses kinda what I feel now. He said how it’s hard to see that crew dead because he has 4K video of them from just months ago. Most of us had never heard of or listened to Stockton until he was already dead. And you go back and start watching these videos of him, and it’s like getting to know him for the first time and it doesn’t seem real that he’s dead. And then you think about how they just vaporized into the ocean floor… it’s just so mind boggling to think that through.
I can’t imagine OceanGate being upset over David’s article. David, at least in this interview, Is giving the most positive critique of Titan of any person who previously went down in it. He’s saying mostly positive things about OceanGate and Titan itself, contrary to almost every other former (living) Titan passenger I’ve seen interviewed.
And the host doesn’t do due diligence, bc the example Pogue gives of the “one-off” prototypes at 12:10 is that *every single sub out there has been peer-reviewed and safety certified,* and that Rush allowed no peer review and no independent safety certification, and that engineers had quit or been fired for insisting that this be done! As James Cameron said, if you go down alone that far in your own uncertified vessel, that’s fine, that’s your choice, but that it was against every ethical guideline to take paying customers in it.
A brilliant host who lets the guest speak without interrupting making my experience in the whole video easy listening and a wonderful guest David Pogue too. Thank you both.
11:55 David Pogue drank the look aid too. This submersible and all submersibles are not meant for commercial/tourist travel. Stockton tried to build a niche in adventure tourism, a profitable one at that, and was doing it cheaply. Submersibles are not meant to be used over extended periods of time and are retired. No one said he couldn’t use the carbon fiber. The concern was the eventual fatigue. Having microphones on the submersible that would inform of cracks mid dive is asinine and dangerous versus the above ground testing experts said should have taken place.
Submersibles can be used for long periods of time. They just have to be refit and updated and repaired, inspected etc. Alvin, the first sub to visit the Titanic, has made over 4000 dives in its lifetime, but it also doesn't share any parts with the Alvin of the 1970's, or 1980's, or even 1990's.
There are submersibles that have have been in service since the 60s and still going strong if they are built right go through frequent inspections and get frequently recertified with a proper maintenence program and refitt schedule they can thousands upon thousands of dives nobody builds a super expensive Submersible just to use 5 times and then retire and build new ones over and over . Nobody could afford that as submersibles are built for commercial profit making. Using titan too Many times was not the problem. Negligence and arrogance was.
Is this the same David Pogue tech guru who authored Pogue's Basics with a huge fan base that included me? How does he now appear oblivious to industry experts and brainwashed by Rush's branding re the Titan?
stockton rush drove everyone who had any experience out of oceangate and hired kids just out of school, it's safe to say when he was finished there was no one at oceangate who could challenge him and the place was full of yes men, so he could do what ever he wanted and he did and that was the real problem, he had a whole company at his disposal and nobody from outside could have any influence on him either, although experts tried to warn him !!!
I forgot that one of the Engineers a part of OceanGate, Stockton fired, because he had concerns!!!! Sorry, I'm far more comfortable with James Cameron's input than this once traveler & interviewer.
AGAIN!!! James Cameron is SO correct in saying that this will forever be another historical reminder of the arrogance of a human being, one man, & the debris of it, sits beside the Titanic once said b4 it left England, "...was unsinkable!!!" And so arrogant that the Titanic did not even have enough life boats!!!
Stockton built a suicide machine. Just because it didn’t implode on prior dives, doesn’t mean it would last forever. This year, next year, or year later, eventually it would implode sometime. He just got lucky it didn’t happen during his past dives, which gave him few more years to live. This sub was doomed from the time of built. Cause it was done with risky engineering. Also every dive gave him reassurance that sub can hold pressure. He was just waiting for only time to tell it. And here we are..
Yeah I don't get the whole it was a safe successful sub because it made several successful trips without imploding and they will say if there was an issue it would have imploded the first time which is just dumb . Defective planes don't crash on their first flight The sub was built to operate for Many years and make thousands of dives . Stockton Rush didn't create a sub with the idea of i want to build a submersible that will make 20 successful dives to Titanic and then implode on Trip 21 . The sub was meant to last for many years.
They were not going to tell a Journalist that was there to do a PR puff piece that the sub had mechanical issues. One theory is that Stockton knew there would be no dive when he offered him David spot.
@@adamwatson6916 And if he canceled just because someone wasn't paying $250K that would imply he knew the hull had a limited number of cycles and didn't want to waste one.
David is conveniently forgetting the fact that many oceanic societies were screaming warnings at Stockton Rush in going into such dangerous depths with unproven design and materials!!
What a great scoop. This interview illustrates perfectly how people were fooled by Rush. David is obviously an experienced journalist and lamiliar with the tech-ey stuff. A perfectly reasonable guy who believed what Rush said. And why wouldn't David believe persuasive Rush. Why would he think the man was exaggerating and lying? All over the internet folks are saying "why in the heck did anybody get in that sub! What idiots!" Right - - now, we have hindsight and true revealing of what was really going on and what Rush was hiding. He didn't test. Didn't care about safety. There was no relationship with big impressive companies. There were no experts - and Rush had fired the expert who warned of failure. That the sub was successful only 14% of the time is NOW being revealed. Experts are screaming that carbon fiber doesn't work under pressure...and in fact must have shattered, disintegrated, and up to now none has been recovered. No. The crackling was not a good sign as Rush would intimate. [what a freakin' lie!!!] It was the harbinger of doom. I can't blame David for being the apologist for Rush...its humiliating to admit being fooled. But Rush was an expert - he fooled a lot of people, including four dead, and HIMSELF because even Rush believed his own lies.
People keep saying that none of the carbon fibre was recovered butt I'm not so sure. We could see the large pieces being lifted but it seems to me there were also containers on that boat, which might have contained smaller pieces. I don't know if I'm right, but as there's no official inventory available to the public it seems like a bit assumption.
It's honestly shocking how effective this sort of thing is at confusing people... The guy was like, 'That 4th seat is always a scientist to explain to you exactly what you're seeing - that's why it's not just an amusement park ride' He just described a tour guide... 'He could have always sold that seat' Rush said he never looked out the window at the Titanic because he was busy with the piloting... How could he sell any expensive tickets for a tour of the Titanic, if there wasn't a tour guide?
"They kept going down till all the weak fibers died". Meaning there were no more fibers left to pop? Wtf kind of testing is that? I hope he listens to what he says and realises how he has been hoodwinked by stockton rush.
He was misinformed and he drank the Stockton Rush koolaid. This is such a good example of how people buy into the stories of charismatic, confident people. Stockton Rush was a liar. PH didn't care if he died, and was a grieving widower so he was hardly a reason to trust. I don't think it's his fault but he believed things that weren't true. And he is a sort of Stockton apologist.
He has a good sense of humor. Many people cross bridges, ride on roller coasters, parachute from airplanes, etc. - trusting the engineers who designed them not to fail. Comparing him to a Jim Jones Flavor-Aid drinker is not really a good comparison. Those people knew they were going to die.
The thing poeple miss about the PH aspect is that PH was not a sub designer or engineer . The line about PH approving the design us bogus Ph did not approve the design nor was he even qualified to approve it he was not an engineer a designer or mechanic technician or submersible pilot . He was a Titanic expert and enem though he held the record for dives to Titanic he was just a passenger on submersibles that were designed built owned and piloted by others. People have this weird belief that Going down in a submersible a bunch of times makes you an expert on submersibles even if you never operated a sub and never designed or engineered one . Ph was an explorer and glorified submersible passenger. I have seen a person's say that because James Cameron has been to Titianic 33 times he now knows more about submersibles then the people piloting the subs that take him down there and its utterly ridiculous to claim the passenger knows more about the sub then the pilot. . If the sub pilot didn't know more about the submersible he was piloting then his passenger he would not be the pilot. You think if there is a malfunction with the sub the pilot us going to ask James Cameron what is wrong with the sub . PH did not approve the design. The sub was complete before his involvement..i It's like saying you know more about air planes than the pilots do because you have flown a bunch of times. Ph has been on many dives in various submersibles bur he is not a submersible expert. What did poeple think you sit in a submersible and everything about the submersible just enters your brain through osmosis ?
This interview is great. Alex has the most calming demeanor. Dave seems like a cool guy yet unfortunately trusted a narcissist who gaslit him into believing how “safe” it wasn’t. Thank goodness his wife said no more crazy lol
David Pogue wrong again because he insists on giving Stockton Rush the benefit of the doubt. Rush's system did go off, so he heard the cracking of the hull in the last moments. AND the danger of mixture of different metals, if true -- Rush was also warned about that too. So there really is no defense for Rush's deliberate and willful recklessness.
I read some of the comments and I just can't fathom how some people can be so naive and just plain stupid . I am listening to Mr. Pogue and all that I can say is "Oh My God !!!" He just believed all and anything Rush told him because it seems as if he was too focused on being able to boast his seeing the wreck of the Titanic .
At 12:10, the guest either completely misses, or simply ignores, the fact that *the subs used by James Cameron and all of the other he disingenuously mentioned were “one-offs,” but they were 100% tested and inspected for safety “one-offs,”* unlike the Titan, which was also an experimental “one-off” taking paying tourists. And that every dive Rush made with his uninspected “one-off” was done to avoid safety regulations
Okay, I was all in on his reasonableness until he started talking about the hull warning systen, the ⅓ scale model, boeing and university of washington etc. A lot were lies made by Rush, and the vessel was barely even made to go 4000meters down, when any competent engineer would design it to at least go 6000 meters, if it regularly would go 4000. You design 50% extra normally, you DON'T design it to be within 200 meters of crushing depth when operating nornally, especially not with such small margins at such huge depths! The scariest thing is that the "settling in" of the vessel, meaning the creaking and sounds made all the way from 300 feet down to max depth, was actually the vessel slowly but actively being pulled apart in such a way as to give little to no warning. The famous hull damage warning system was mainly to catch damage made while trabsported above water between jobs, as the system wiuld be entirely pointless if it gave AT BEST 20 minutes of severe warnings, very possibly much less, while actively taking at least an hour, but normally two hours to get back up. Given they had released the emergency ascent weights, but also were relatively close to the bottom an hour ahead of time, or over 1200 meters lower than would be standard, about 1 hour and 45 minutes instead of the two and a half that is optimal, they were weighed down way too heavily, which is confirmed by thrir incredibly rapid abd dangerously fast descent, as well as basically almost standing still, ascending back up like 50 meters, or less than 100 keters at least, in those last 20 minutes if somewhat panic. If ut had just been made of one material, and had an escape hatch in addution to their manual, hydraulic, timed and electric emergency ascent options, basically if any little thing was changed, it would've gone so differently! I'm just sad that it's almost presented by this guy as an unfortunate accident, instead of a slowly but predictably crash in slow motion! This wasn't a freak accident, it was basically a hidden design bonus that anyone can achieve if they design their vessel the same way, so that with enough trips anyone would end up the same! By the way, I believe their success rate was around 14%. Fourteen percent of their dives hit the titanic, the rest dus not. And even on basically ALL the successful ones, there were problems. And if not direct problems, you still would hear all the way up and down, the sound of the vessel straining under repeated pressure tests, literally being slowly, ever so slightly, being pushed apart. It wasn't even a silent affair, as he (Rush) had just convinced himself and everyone sitting in that that was how it should sound. The sound of the pressure vessel, the only little tube separating them from and keeping them alive in a unsurvivable environment, being actively pulled apart slowly and loudly, was so normalised that they weren't even wirried until their subpar warning system warned them way too late while already being in a position where they just could not do anything but slowly wait, while listening to the vessel putting up the last little fight as it was likely trapped down there, as im guessing the reason they sank so fast was unnatural water weight, likely why battery A gave out too. After a certain point, just like the titanic, they were doomed, as even dropping everything, climbing 100 meters in 20 minutes is basically atill sinking at that point, when youre 3500 meters underwater with 0 chance of saving yourself, and 0 chance of being saved either, as there were no sagety features. Rush was aware that when the moment finally happened, there was no saving them, as the vessel was built to survive, and if it didng go to pman, there was no backup plan....
David Pogue lost his journalistic objectivity because he liked Stockton Rush. He really has so many defenses for Rush who clearly was arrogant, ignorant and reckless.
Ignorant? Bet u didn't graduate from Princeton with an engineering degree. Bet your not worth millions either. The guy was Far from Ignorant. Arrogant maybe, but he earned that right far as I'm concerned. People in these comment sections who've probably accomplished NOTHING in their lives have all the answers. But then again we're still alive so there's that. The dude was too smart for his own good. He was far from "Ignorant". That comment is Ignorant . 🤣 Oh well I'm Ignorant too so don't feel bad.
I don’t agree with that assessment. David is honest and REPORTS what he sees & feels in a balanced way. I appreciate him telling THE WHOLE STORY BEHIND THE SCENES instead of trying to stir controversy & outrage by focusing only on Stocktons negative traits. David Pouge spent 9 days with Ocean Gate & Stockton & PH. David knows much more than you and I. You don’t achieve anything in life by not trying. Stockton was NOT a homicidal manic. He didn’t want to die! He was passionate about the deep ocean. He went to Princeton & got an engineering degree. After building & testing airplanes he designed an experimental submersible & an innovative platform to launch it. But in order reach his dreams he had to take paying customers. 21:55 - Stockton genuinely believed he had built a safe machine. 23:04 - Read the transcripts Pouge explains and learn about the extensive testing actually performed. The media narrative makes it look like he was the worlds greatest idiot. But TRUTHFULLY Ocean Gate had a very strong safety culture - and Stocktons sub went to Titanic SAFELY at least a dozen times! Maybe Stockton was wrong about the DESIGN in the long term, but OPERATIONALLY the safety culture was there - even if social media chooses to ignore it.
agree, this interview is rather disappointing. Not the interviewers fault but despite having read Pogue's interviews with Rush ( the full CBS transcripts) when it comes to the engineering Pogue is out of his depth. Better analyses are available - the last piece in the New Yorker the reporter there has really got OceanGate's number - and RUclipss like this one ruclips.net/video/6LcGrLnzYuU/видео.html
I think he is right about the bubbles forming in between the carbon cylinder and the titanium cap. After I saw a video of those two being glued together, this looks like the most logical outcome.
Its absolutely not true that titan had 20 successful dives to Titanic. There were only 13 successful dives and 86 failed attempts. He is trying to convince people that every dive was a success without incident but even on the 13 successful dives there were major problems and mechanical/electrical failures. He fails to mention that on one dive the Pilot discovered that one thruster was installed backwards and they could not do anything but spin in circles and had to reprogram the game controller on the fly. He also does not mention another trip where they had a power failure and rush told everyone to go to sleep . How would he know that there were 20 dives with no incidents when he wasn't on those dives ? He seems to still believe everything Rush told him .. Maybe he does not want to admitt he had been duped .
Typically maximum strength is achieved with a spherical one piece titanium shell. But "gluing" dissimilar materials together that expand differently during cycles of compression is just a bad concept. Add to that the lack of Certification for the carbon fiber body.. It should have been all Titanium; not just the end caps. The pressures at that depth are just beyond enormous.
And look at the conditions under which this gluing took place...in a warehouse, with no attempt at cleanliness and people wiping down surfaces with rags...just lunacy and amateurishness.
I’ve watched this twice now - first time I thought “come on Dave” then as I watched again I see David’s true feelings and time after implosion he’s still in shock and believed in Stockton
Still the acrylic porthole window was only rated for 1,300 M-that should have been it's dive limit-you are only as strong as your weakest link. Alvin has made over 4,500 dives.
22:56 You shouldn't have any "fibers popping" in a safe hull at those pressures. (Strain hardening occurs with metal hulls but not composites, so sounds heard when diving with metal hulls are not as big a concern as with composites.) Those noises could also be due to the epoxy delaminating from the fibers, not just the fibers failing. Carbon fiber buckles under tremendous external pressures, especially if cyclic on repeated dives, leading to inward buckling and delamination of the composite. It isn't conjecture, it's a physical certainty and a matter of time before it fails. Failure at the seal between the titanium end caps and the carbon fiber epoxy hull is also a possible failure mode as they compress at different rates under pressure and were only glued together manually, however I feel this scenario was slightly less likely. The third failure mode with the acrylic window is also a possibility but probably the least likely as it likely was engineered with a factor of safety despite its rating for only higher depths. We will just have to see what the accident investigation report shows. Also I just want to add that the acoustic monitoring system was not the safest idea because the failure modes of the sub were not fully known, and hence the amount of warning such a system would give prior to a catastrophic failure was unknown at best. And at worst, it would only give warning a few milliseconds prior to failure. Carbon fiber epoxy is much more brittle than metal, so rather than yielding, it can fail without warning. This is of course just my opinion, but based a little on my background having a Ph.D. in materials science and engineering. Also I'm a big fan of David Pogue and love his enthusiasm for science and his communication skills, so this is nothing against him or his views.
I think he is in denial about the misjudgement of the risk he took with this trip. If he would accept that it was a mistake going on board this sub, he would need to change his life and work and he does not want to do that. That is why he is so passionately and emotionally insisting about it being safe.
David, carbon fiber did fail. Didn't you see the salvage operation where they were bringing up the titanium end caps, the steel frame legs, etc., but NO carbon fiber cylinder!
Totally agree. Not sure why David is so confident about the carbon fiber. I don't see that any of the pressure vessel was recovered, just the titanium end caps and steel legs. The prevailing expert opinion is that the repetitive pressure cycles on the carbon fiber vessel reduced its strength until it failed.
I hope someone with some notable talent spoofs this tub and draws it with all of its state of the art high tech amenities like a smoke detector with high volume sprinkler system, an 8 point o
He should interview Pogue again now that the transcript between the submersible and mother ship surfaced (assuming it's the real thing). At least get this transcript verified one way or the other. And then get Pogue's view on why the submersible was descending 50% faster than normal. Then get his view on the 18 minutes of terror for the passengers with all of the warning bells going off. Also get his thoughts on why after dropping ballast and the sub's external frame, the sub was only ascending at a very slow rate. I'm pretty sure he will change his opinion on at least 2 things: 1. the passengers knew they could die for at least a few minutes, 2. the carbon fiber failed or at least the joint failed (in either case, it was poor engineering or poor maintenance or both). Overall I was very surprised to see someone speaking so positively about OceanGate and all the testing and innovation. When actually, the only innovation was they built a very dangerous experimental submersible that would probably implode some day. Well the experiment is finally over, and I doubt anyone attempts it again.
I Like David and I like the interview. The Coming months were going to find out what failed / what didn't. Heavy weights in the industry warned against the CF hull design. The issue is the craft wasn't certified, he was taking passenger money in lawless waters in what we're now calling an experimental submersible. Nasa, Boeing and the University of Washington have all said they had nothing to do with this design or building the submersible. If i were to guess the lawsuits (coming) will hold up. OceanGate misrepresented the danger involved. Theres loads of text messages floating around of Stockton saying scuba diving is more dangerous / crossing the road etc. The Situation and his reputation would be very different if it was just him on the sub when this happened.
The part where David thought they cut the Wi-Fi on the ship because he may have tweeted a negative comment is an example of how just scratching the surface will yield answers. I just watched a 45 minute webinar Stockton made in December 2021. He explains that the mothership has only one satellite connection via Inmarsat. He said staying in touch with the mainland is very important, and the bandwidth seems to jam up when everyone is active on the Internet at once, like after dinner time on the ship. Looks like that employee was telling Pogue the truth. Also, I don’t think Ocean Gate was popular enough last year for his tweet to gain any traction. I hope David reads this message.
A journalist with the same level of hubris as Stockton Rush. I guess he missed the part where the submersible imploded.Try listening to Scott Manley, or James Cameron.
If there’s one thing I’ve learned in my life it’s that people will say what you want to hear. Additionally your mind will also fill in the blanks with what you NEED to hear! Enjoyed this and it brought up some good points. cheers.
Fantastic Interview. My respect for David is LARGE. He DID in fact submit a fair and objective report on Titan last year and Ocean Gate was NOT Happy. I thought he was very fair and did highlight the issues with the sub. And his viewpoint NOW is also very fair
23:03 That's how Stockton believed it worked but I've heard no engineer discussing the possible failure points of the design of the submersible corroborate that. Unlike titanium or steel which *strengthens* after being subjected to extreme pressure, carbon fiber gets *weaker,* with every successive dive. Those 'crackling' sounds are failure points that are being introduced / exacerbated that only compound with every dive cycle. He seems to have been misappropriating the idea of the very real 'Kaiser effect', applying it to carbon fiber despite him (as a lecture he gave here admits: ruclips.net/video/9PGpjEDc96I/видео.html) having personally encountered the opposite phenomen. This seemingly baseless hypothesis of Stockton's about the fibers doing the exact opposite of what actually was happening was one of his more egregious errors. He didn't take his own testing seriously at all despite having multiple "sphincter tightening" experiences at 4k ft. in regards to the popping noises of the hull when there "should have" been only one. Also the claim he made about collaborating in any substantive way with the University of Washington was denied by them outright. He pretty much just used their testing facilities. Same deal with NASA and Boeing, the two other entities he cited who had even less association. Big red flags.
Being an innovator is fine if you're willing t/risk only your own skin in the game. Not so in this case and that's what makes the Titan's loss so tragic. Rest in Peace ❤.
I wish alex asked him about why Rush didn’t do non destructive testing and why he never got it classed/inspected by a third party. If you’re SO SURE about your submersible, then why wouldn’t you do that? It’s a simple answer - because Rush knew it wouldn’t be classed to safely go to 3800 meters (and hence - no titanic wreck expeditions/no paycheck). There’s no other reason, especially not to AT LEAST do NDT
It is very interesting to hear someone on the other side of the spectrum of opinions on this tragedy. This was someone very enthusiastic like the DALLMYDED youtuber that almost went down in the sub. Unfortunately… as I can see in other comments too…. Rush knew how to pinpoint his targets with his narcissism and pick up people vulnerable and excited to see the Titanic. But still it’s good to hear someone talk about it all in a less negative fashion. But I appreciate the negative angles too because God knows these innocent people lost their lives and we can’t deny that.
Well he's defiantly on some kind of spectrum !! He still 100% believes that Stockton was right and every other world leading expert is just jealous! The guy MCL ever even got to see the bloody titanic 😂
Axial pressure tends to reduce dimension between End Caps. Radial pressure tends to reduce Cylindrical Body diameter. The junction between Caps and Body will deform each time as the vessel rises and sinks.
He’s in major denial, which is understandable because it would be hard to reconcile, in retrospect having foolishly put your life at risk. All of these redundancies don’t mean a thing if the glue gave out.
@Alex.kantrowitz enjoyed the interview immensely... But, unfortunately, you fall into the familiar that a lot of these podcasts on RUclips fall into.... asking questions... A few times... you go on and on and on and... Keep it short... and then just....listen Have your next question ready, but, if youe subject says something that goes off in a different direction, be prepared to improvise and feed off that... And a good example of this.. unless I missed it, a good followup woulda been when Pogue said that OceanGate didn't like his initial story... WHY didn't OceanGate not like the story..etc
I've heard in other vlogs the Titan was tested to failure with an all carbon fibre body. The end caps failed, hence they were changed to titanium - then never tested to failure again.
It was the wish of the traditional owners, the Anangu people that visitors stop climbing the sacred rock, Uluru This played a part in the decision of the Uluru-Kata Tjuta National Park board to unanimously ban the climb
Very interesting. I'd say that the reason that you didn't hear so much about the boat in Greece that went down is geography. The Oceangate incident was on your doorstep practically, but the boat going down in Greece is so much further away. Also, the outcome was clear with the boat, but nobody knew what had happened to the submersible. Where I live in Central Europe, the sinking boat in Greece was big news for a bit, but the outcome was clear. There were questions about the actions of the coastguard which came out later. People who were saying "why should we save rich people" were just ridiculous. You could also say "should we let people die because they're rich" if you go that route. If it came to it, you could give them the bill for their rescue after. I don't think they'd mind!
I've sort of second guessed most people's reports/opinions on OG and the Titan, professionals and non-professionals, but I think David has the most unbiased report, so much appreciated to hear more of his experience! This has fascinated me from the moment I read it was missing.
At 23:00 minutes he says the following, “it was tested by some of the greatest minds in submersibles” that is an astounding and utterly untrue thing to say.
It seems that carbon fiber is OK when there is more pression inside than outside, not the other way around (it cracks and collapse). It is rather easy to get the intuition of it when you see how the cylinder was built, a bit like "glued headbands". It was a huge mistake to get inspired by planes for submarines; NASA, Boeing UW did not backup this design they say.
I’ve heard the carbon fiber was out of date materials Boeing would not use. That also was the extent of their collaboration with Boeing! Rush was an arrogant idiot and Liar!
I knew nothing if it prior but with the briefest of youtube searches etc I went straight to implosion, I never gave any thought to the knocks or 90 hour oxygen countdown.
Pogue got several things wrong in this interview. The French scientist said in an interview aired on several channels that he trusted Rush's engineering skills implicitly and didn't question him too about the safety of the design and construct. Like Pogue, he was taken in by Rush.
22:48 (the moment he realizes this explanation makes no sense)... hes describing the hull getting weaker each test dive. Tests that 'aimed' to kill weak fibers? Sure makes sense to me. 😏
I understand his feelings and his friendship with Stockton Rush. Sorry for his loss. I don't understand his lack of critical thinking as a journalist though. He should have interviewed those who held different opinions than Rush had. Where was the balance? So he accuses those who disagree with him as having hate? Typical playing of the victim card. I would like to hear more though from those who have designed or led a team in the design of submersibles. James Cameron has made 33 trips to the Titanic wreckage. He also led the design of the submersible that he piloted to the Challenger Deep, more than twice the depth of the Titanic.
25:32 is a great analogy. Due to how it was designed and built, to dive in Rush's Titan was like playing Russian Roulette, with the added risk that each cycle, more bullets are added to the chamber.
I never expected David Pogue to be such a staunch supporter of the man who almost killed him. The research that Mr. Rush allegedly engaged in is no excuse to put the public in danger. The one thing I learned from this interview is that David could easily be influenced by a person who can give the best story and say all the right things.
The contrast of listening to Eric Clapton while the carbon fibers protecting you audibly crack around you at the cold dark bottom of the ocean has to be some BioShock type horror
You don't find delusional and out of touch? He is still pending Stockton Rush fantasy and is trying to convince poeple the sub was safe . He is either delusional in denial or worse an outright liar . He is stil peddling the lies of Stockton Rush .
Methinks David Pogue has indulged in a little too much koolade, as Nick Van Leek has said. Rush wound his story up like the carbon fibre, just in one direction, the Titan was his baby, his dream and nothing and nobody was going to stand in his way. His objective was all and anyone who thought differently, who objected to his great plan for the Titan were basically iimbeciles. They could not see through his eyes and sadly, he could not see through the eyes of those who predicted his ultimate death The more Pogue defends Rush, the greater I would say one ought to fear for his sanity, to a greater or lesser degree. Rest In Peace to the Dawoods, Harding and Nargeolet. They did not have to die for Rush but he was doomed to die at some point due to his inability to see through the flaws he had instigated. It was not innovation. It was stupidity, hubris and I so hope nobody will try his ideas again. The world needs wise men and women yes, those who can brave the mysteries of the oceans, space and exploration of other worlds but not to take such insane risks to lives other than their own, lives if people who do not fully understand or totally appreciate how easy it could be for them to die needlessly, and for what .. just to prove one man's point. Mr.Pogue, sorry but you are halfway there Stop drinking the koolade and believing the hype fed to you by people who do know better but for the sake of pride, arrogance and the search for their names to be forever remembered, let bit the infant if Stockton Rush blind you and turn you into something you are really not, or ought not be.
I DO care about the science of it that's why I've watched DOZENS of videos about it by Actual scientists (not panties in a wad reporters) and they UNIVERSALLY STATE that this homemade sub had Several serious safety design issues and that it was MORE dangerous the more dives it made.... despite this dude saying it was tested over and over....he's GOT to be intentionally misdirecting away from the ACTUAL Danger of cyclic failure
This was an excellent interview. I've been following this story and still watching for updates on the investigation. Very glad to have come across your channel - new subscriber. Thank you.
It's all well and good but he didn’t do the one thing he needed to which was to test the number of cycles the pressure vessel could withstand. And send it deep enough to failure. Only then would there be an idea of the engineering safety margin and life cycle for retirement.
I'm not up to speed on this story so I've got to ask: Is Mr. Pogue employed by Oceangate? Seems like an awful lot of copium considering that, had his dive not been aborted, it could easily have been him on the fatal voyage.
I know that its fashonable to totally trash the whole Titan thing, but it went down there many times. It was an experimental vessel with many highly intelligent diligent people working on it. The people obviously felt comfortable going down there despite the risk. Were mistakes made? Of course. Is it really bad what happened? Of course. Would I have gone on that thing? No. But do they deserve all the vehement hateful comments? I dont think so.
Hi Alex - your video was recommended on youtube algorithm - like most others - this event caught my eye. Came for the interview which was great, really thoughtful questions, however am subscribing as I browse your channel I can see some very interesting contemporary topics. Thanks! ☺️
You sir are a fantastic interviewer!! This was excellent! I wish the algorithm would have pushed this to me sooner. I got a lot out of hearing his perspectives which flowed from your thoughtful questions. I also appreciate seeing all of the comments, and how the interview is landing with folks. 👍👍👍👍
Wow, thank you!
@@Alex.kantrowitz
He's right, I also explicitly noticed your interviewing skills.
I agree! Great interview questions and demeanor. Well done.
Going to add my agreement. You’re an outstanding interviewer.
Great interview but you forgot to ask him why his head is up his ass.
His description of the fibers snapping as if it's a good thing is chilling.
I know huh. He took the hull cracking as if it needed to be sealed like a new frying pan. Rather than it being a sign that the fibers were weakening in the hull. The ignorance is frightening. This was going to end in death eventually, sadly.
Cause he was drinking the Rushkoolaid. David actually believed the BS about experts 😂
One fiber at a time breaking, transferring load to the remaining fibers.. at no time knowing how many have broken so far and how many are left.. seems to me a single fiber breaking is no good. maybe a 10 inch hull would have been better, or perhaps a 1 or 2 inch titanium cylinder inside the carbon fiber to give it some backing.. even if the sub was bigger to add more displacment to counter the weight. How bout some cross bracing inside?
Isn't it though!? That must be Rush's idea of reverse engineering. He installed sensors in the hull to alert him of the crackling sound. A little late to do something about it now. Remember when cars came equipped with 'idiot lights'? I guess Rush figured he would just pull the tub over, pop the hood and replace a fuse. I'm surprised he didn't install a smoke detector too.
@@salmadonia5695 lol
David said the sub had done 20+ dives with no incident, except there were incidents, Rush just didnt tell him about them
Yeah, it didn't do ANY dive WITHOUT an incident.
This guy is pure Oceangate PR. All the engineer research types are saying if that cracking alarm goes off, it's over.
I wish someone would interview him now after everything that’s coming out after the hearings.
@@sincoLT-cd1nt The funny thing is that the alarm did work and even very good, but they ignored it. During dive 80 the system told them about the broken hull plus there was a loud bang. Dive 88 is when it imploded. //typo
@@sincoLT-cd1nt That would be worth watching.
Pogue's jaunty juvenile behavior gave viewers false assurance that it was safe. He acted like a little kid instead of a serious analyst. He embarrassed himself then and he embarrasses himself yet today as he won"t admit that OceanGate was reckless and unprofessional, and his "adventure" was idiotic. This was NOT science. The DNA water test can be conducted without five people (of ANY people).
He's a likeable fool who should have been more skeptical, probing, and prosecutorial. Instead he acted like a goofball. He's an unserious man who squandered his duty to tell it straight about a DEADLY SERIOUS subject.
He's an idiot. He still CHUCKLES in this interview. That's childish.
I get the impression that alarm was sort of like using thunder to warn you lightning is going to strike. Too little too late.
"The WEAK fibers had already died." This has got to be one of the dumbest things to ever be said to try to explain away that rather than the sub is gradually breaking apart, it is ACTUALLY merely getting broken-in and all of the unnecessary weak strands are just dying a quick and sudden death. If Stockton was telling me that, my immediate question would have been, "How do you know those weren't the STRONG fibers dying? Or, how can you be sure those weren't fibers that were needed to maintain the strength of the hull?" Pure absurdity.
Yeah i think i'll listen to the people in the industry,not a fanboy like David. Stockton was told that 1. Carbon Fibre wasn't suitable for that amount of pressure and 2. Putting two different materials together like Titanium and Carbon Fibre (like Stockton did) was a BAD idea!!!
Someone else who road that thing said they heard loud banging and flexing. An it was so loud and intense they emailed Stockton he would not be able to markert it because of fear
And wasn't the hull wrapped with one long strand? At what point did Rush see it being wound and think, "Wow this is going to be great once that fiber snaps in a bunch of places"
Or even, "how did you get weak fibers in to begin with? Where's your quality control?"
Ya or “how much does the load increase on the holding fibers as the weak fibers fail? Has the sub been tested to the same depths after each break? What has been the fiber attrition rate and how many need to hold”? Folks have said that fibers could be heard popping with each dive. Sounds as if they keep reusing a disposable product.
David trusted them too much. The New Yorker article was very revealing. Almost everyone in that tiny industry thought that sub was a cluster.
@@jone8626he drank the kool aid. I don't know who any of these two, this was just disgusting and his smile all the time. He sounded so ignorant sorry, the Titanic was known by the survivor stories, Cameron wasn't the first movie. Both needs to do some research. The Titanic families do not agree to this trips.
Everyone needs to calm down. Five people died doing something knowingly dangerous. Whilst sad, this is a story because of the intrigue of the Titanic and the celebrity of the participants. People die every day doing things which are dangerous. Be careful of wishing for ever more regulation. Instead, make informed decisions. There would be no way I would be going on that sub but then again I wouldn't ski down a hill and I bet more than 5 people die every hour doing that.
Hamish Harding and PH were members of the Explorer Club along with Victor Vescovo, James Cameron and others. So if there were any concerns, they knew about it. Victor gave a interview saying that alerted him. Even so, he decided to go. Why David Pogue would think if was that dangerous? David said that those concerns by the deep diving community was not public in the past
Most will not agree with David’s acceptance of acoustical monitoring. Carbon fiber cannot be scanned without destroying the material.
Pogue is a notoriously gullible rube
As opposed to all the other times I have watched David Pogue speak on this matter this is the first time where he actually sounds enchanted by Stockton Rush and his folly.
@@AnimationByDylan I'm reminded of the Mark Twain line "It is easier to fool someone, than to convince them that they have been fooled."
Imagine that he's STILL kissing Stocktons ass despite the implosion...deaths and every scientist..expert and engineer pointing out how it was always going to fail 🙄. This guy chugged the dam kool-aid and still believes every lie. This guy clearly isn't a intelligent man ..talking about weak fibres snapping implying it's science 😂 we shouldn't be giving him air time
Exactly Nancy. For one, it seems to me that to bill it as a scientific trip was to play to these rich people's egos (i.e. make them think they were doing something important), or if not that, to blatantly bolster Rush's efforts to sell tickets (i.e. he included a scientific element in a bid to raise the company's image as a serious player). Any scientific work surrounding the Titanic has surely been done by now, hasn't it, probably using much-better cameras/ grab arms etc? I'm just not sure how a few people sitting in a washing-machine tub fitted with budget equipment and looking at the Titanic for 20-40 minutes could constitute a scientific endeavour, whoever is onboard. It's almost offensive to those who've done it properly to suggest it quite frankly, and I suspect if he hadn't been on the Titan on its fateful trip, Mr Nargeolet may have been feeling a little guilty that he got sucked-in to SR's vortex right now. RIP though.
No enchantment. He signed a waiver. He knows he is limited in how far he can criticize Oceangate.
Pogue's jaunty juvenile behavior gave viewers false assurance that it was safe. He acted like a little kid instead of a serious analyst. He embarrassed himself then and he embarrasses himself yet today as he won"t admit that OceanGate was reckless and unprofessional, and his "adventure" was idiotic. This was NOT science. The DNA water test can be conducted without five people (of ANY people).
He's a likeable fool who should have been more skeptical, probing, and prosecutorial. Instead he acted like a goofball. He's an unserious man who squandered his duty to tell it straight about a DEADLY SERIOUS subject.
He's an idiot. He still CHUCKLES in this interview. That's childish.
He does come across as a Stockton Rush apologist, which, under the circumstances, is kind of pointless.
No he's a smart businessman.
It is a pointless and dangerous rhetoric.
I've been sitting here listening to this thinking of the same thing. Jump to the comments to see if I was alone on that.
He says titan did 20 dives without incident but fails to mention there were 86 failed attempts. Titan had a success rate of 14 percent.
In innovative engineering you learn more from your failures than you do from your successes. You can’t have the success without first having some failures
Agreed, aborted missions are not always bad.. that shows some level of prudence to safety, even if your system is fundamentally flawed.
Hi Adam, hardly a success , don't get a lot for your 250 grand ,
@drdrew3 hi drew agree with your opinion however when involving paying passengers you have to possess a safe product , you simply cannot risk the lives of the general public , that's why testing & certification exists
The guy was a genius the fact he built something that worked 20 times is what you all should be talking about it was innovative he was brilliant we don't truly know why it broke it could be something simple but because these people died it shouldn't take away from how smart and innovative the man was
He really bought everything Stockton told him and still buys it unbelievably. He was touting the audio system warning them of crackling just like Rush. I thought what Cameron said about that audio system was right in that it doesn't matter if you have a warning system to tell you about your poor design. What matters is that the design is correct in the first place without relying on a warning system when you are already that deep in the ocean.
YEAH!!!! I agree that James Cameron gives the BEST EXPLANATION!!!!! He said, on Monday, he was a way when he heard & mentioned that it was a small community & ALL of them KNEW that they sadly perished!!! AND along with those whom he was with they gave a toast at supper time. He must've been on some excursion, cause he had no clue that they were STILL searching & giving these families ESSENTIALLY false hope!!!! And has stated there wasn't no search the way it has said in the media. And James Cameron was correct on everything!!!! The only thing, we now know, is that ALL the passengers wouldn't have known & the submersible just incinerated!!! That's given some sadly 'cold comfort' especially family members of the 19yr old son, who was indeed scared BUT also wanted to do this for his father. I wasn't aware til gosh, maybe last week, that the billionaire who wz killed, wz supposed 2b going with 1 of his billionaire friends, BUT he too back out, as it got closer.
Well said. His hubris said he'd have time to safely ascend after the warning went off, when he had no data to support that supposition.
I saw & really wanted 2 watch that in 2018, some1 in that community wrote a letter 2b sent 2 OceanGate. I'd say, it gve the most & best understanding, how many times, ppl tried 2 warn Stockton. in the submersible community who had real concerns. There wz sum legal reason, this letter could not be sent which is confusing, but he still had. This man stated that this wz gonna end in a catastrophe. I wz surprised at how many submersibles hve bin built & used!!! BUT each has bin CERTIFIED except Stockton's Titan!! ( It wldn't hve passed!) I 4got James Cameron has gone 2 the Titanic 30x!!! AND equally on a differ show, that he also has gone 3x below the Titanic BUT he's STILL NOT comfortable taking oths + his is a solo submersible. I didn't realize how they differ from submarines!!! They can go MUCH deeper than a submarine!!! I now think probably why sum of the media coverage has bin misleading is I 4got, it wld've taken days 2 drive 400 miles off of St. John's, Newfoundland 2 where the Titanic is below. I think, it wz prety choppy getting there. I also didn't know they differ in that a submersible unlike a submarine has 2b taking out & is attached 2 an apparatus from where its let go & that's whom Rush communicated w/ every 1/2 hr BUT an hr & 1/2 in the comms went & they didn't hear from them again. They do know now, that the bang actualy isn't related. But It wz still found, at the last location known, that James Cameron said it would b. I didn't take in2 acct the time 4 the U.S & Cdn Coast Guard 2 get 2 that spot. Ppl 4 sum very legitimate reasons hve struggled w/ how much effort & media attn this has gotten. Hving said, that, I do get why they still did, if there wz any chance they said, they were near the surface of the ocean & died due 2 lack of air & 2 hve not gone out & found that they could've b saved wld b worse. I wz shocked that they had 2b bolted in from the outside. I DO think in the long run, sadly, as James Cameron said, its another ex: of HUBRIS & ARROGANCE! I felt better about the overall industry, knowing that there is around 30 submersibles, who have NEVER failed, BUT they are ALL CERTIFIED except 4 the Titan!!! There are sum legal Q's due 2 the where the Titanic lies, is the trans Atlantic & not a part of any country. Sadly, I don't think Stockton wld've ever listened 2 any1 BUT as result those who died, did not hve all the facts & were sold a false sense of security.
Actually the acoustic warning system did work. It gave them more than 20 minutes of warning according to the transcript. It was the electrical system that failed and some unexplained loss of buoyancy. I'm sure they will find out in time exactly what happened.
@@dennislevy3603 Has the transcript been verified yet? I haven't had time to check it out thoroughly so far...
James Cameron hasn’t imploded. So, I’m gonna go with his opinion and expertise.
Should have done more investigating and a story on the dangers of the Titan. Clearly, the free trip paid for your silence and compliance.
Dude is fangirling over Stockton
Pogue's jaunty juvenile behavior gave viewers false assurance that it was safe. He acted like a little kid instead of a serious analyst. He embarrassed himself then and he embarrasses himself yet today as he won"t admit that OceanGate was reckless and unprofessional, and his "adventure" was idiotic. This was NOT science. The DNA water test can be conducted without five people (of ANY people).
He's a likeable fool who should have been more skeptical, probing, and prosecutorial. Instead he acted like a goofball. He's an unserious man who squandered his duty to tell it straight about a DEADLY SERIOUS subject.
He's an idiot. He still CHUCKLES in this interview. That's childish.
Pogue’s approach with Rush was as a fanboy not a serious journalist.
That’s exactly what I was thinking. I mean, he didn’t even blink when NASA was mentioned, but if he had done even basic due diligence he would have found that NASA is not completely in the business of safety certifying deep ocean submersibles, and that Rush refused to allow his sub to be safety certified by the people who were in the business of doing just that! And at about 12:10, Kantrowitz simply accepted Pogue’s completely disingenuous example positing that _all_ existing subs are prototypes, and that they _all_ have had problems, instead of saying yes, that’s true, but all of the other “one-offs” were safety certified and that none of them has had any loss of life!!! WTF??
I can't agree more. I just tore apart all the "facts" he is claiming in this interview. he's delusional.
Exactly like the MASS MEDIA with the increasingly LEFT LEANING DEMOCRATIC POLITICAL PARTY!!
Haven't decided if this is EVIL people blindly following increasingly out-of-touch ELITEST AUTHORITY CON MEN (the DEMOCRATIC ELITE), or the entire system so blindly follows what they thought was "the good guys", but realistically EVIL FORCES are driving the DEMOCRATIC PARTY at the top!!
I'm not saying THE REPUBLICAN PARTY is flawless , but Conservatives expect TRUTH and the BIDEN ADMINISTRATION has clearly abandoned TRUTH long ago...
Back to the TITAN...
Carbon Fiber is GOOD for pressurization (aircraft use) but not acceptable for COMPRESSIVE FORCES. This material Science is clearly understood and yet STOCKTON RUSH continued without regard for anything except his personal glory!! I don't this was a GREED driven problem with Stockton Rush, it was clearly NARCISSISTIC FAME and GLORY!!
@@eddykidd He had the experience of a lifetime. He can write books, do media interviews for the rest of his life about this, it's the ching ching bells going off in his head, he's going to be rich and relevant when he wasn't before. No wonder he seems so happy about it.
Yup!
Good interview. Rush targetted the perfect journalist: enthusiastic fanboy happy to eat up the Oceangate PR; totally missing the fundamental safety issues the company hired lawyers to bury. Also missed the crucial legal reasoning for calling tourist passengers "mission specialists".
It’s truly hilarious to think that people like Rush’s old partner or this guy believe that the courts would ever buy that shit for a second.
The average person doesn’t know much about deep water exploration or how dangerous it could be or how submersible’s should be built. I didn’t know anything until this happened. Life is a big learning experience. Clearly rush was convincing. I’m sure he assured everyone this this thing was safe. Clearly he did.
Somehow i think this guy is really trying to justify why he actually was Looney enough to go down in that thing.
He says, "Well I don't think it gave way bcuz of the carbon fiber hull"
Why not just admit that you were drinking Stockton's Kool aid to get a story, David and that thing didn't explode on your trip. You know damn well you would not get in another submersible built out of anything Stockton was using. 😂😂
@@maxxpopp2373 also his dive was aborted at 37 feet... he would probably be dead if they went down....
I’m sure in Rush’ mind the trip he brought David Pogue along was going to be the best free advertising he could get, not an unbiased opinion that painted them as they really were.
Great scoop for an interview. The problem with David’s argument for all the testing that was supposedly done by Rush is that this is just based on what Rush told him. I’ve seen reports that many of Rush’s claims were untrue. For example, the Titan only made it to the Titanic 13 times, not 20.
I don’t know where you read 20. They always said 6 dives in 2021, 7 dives in 2022 (or the other way around) and the last deadly trip was the first one of season 2023
Yeah, everyone was told a bunch of baloney and believed it. What's amazing to me is that people like Pogue STILL seem to believe this baloney despite all the information now out there to the contrary.
Yep. They made it down 14% of their attempts.
He really drank the coolaide
@@5aarah1 and it was mixed with salt water.
I used to like reading Pogue when he wrote for the NYT, but seeing and hearing his commentary in the wake of this disaster caused me to lose respect for him. If I were in his shoes and had unwisely risked my life in that death trap, I think I'd have kept as quiet as possible about it because I'd be embarrassed that I'd exercised such poor judgment. The information was available to him before the disaster.
"He told us he'd designed it in collaboration with NASA"?? Come on, David. That's worthless information.
agree 100% loved Pogue but this defensiveness masks his ignorance -which he won't admit to
I'd still respect him if he just said he unwisely misjudged. Everyone makes mistakes. It is however inexcusable to still defend the poorest decisions as if we were talking about the Einstein of deep submerging vessels....
He somehow, mysteriously enough, almost seems to have become MORE defensive and in favour of the failed sub ever since it descended the last time. I'm guessing it's quite a bit of guilt and survivorship bias mixed in with the reporting, which is why he seems more defensive AFTER the accident than before it, as he feels the need to defend himself in a way as well, now that his name is connected to the story
He signed a waiver. He has to be careful what he says.
Pogue's jaunty juvenile behavior gave viewers false assurance that it was safe. He acted like a little kid instead of a serious analyst. He embarrassed himself then and he embarrasses himself yet today as he won"t admit that OceanGate was reckless and unprofessional, and his "adventure" was idiotic. This was NOT science. The DNA water test can be conducted without five people (of ANY people).
He's a likeable fool who should have been more skeptical, probing, and prosecutorial. Instead he acted like a goofball. He's an unserious man who squandered his duty to tell it straight about a DEADLY SERIOUS subject.
He's an idiot. He still CHUCKLES in this interview. That's childish.
David at the end honestly expresses kinda what I feel now. He said how it’s hard to see that crew dead because he has 4K video of them from just months ago. Most of us had never heard of or listened to Stockton until he was already dead. And you go back and start watching these videos of him, and it’s like getting to know him for the first time and it doesn’t seem real that he’s dead. And then you think about how they just vaporized into the ocean floor… it’s just so mind boggling to think that through.
I can’t imagine OceanGate being upset over David’s article.
David, at least in this interview,
Is giving the most positive critique of Titan of any person who previously went down in it.
He’s saying mostly positive things about OceanGate and Titan itself, contrary to almost every other former (living) Titan passenger I’ve seen interviewed.
And the host doesn’t do due diligence, bc the example Pogue gives of the “one-off” prototypes at 12:10 is that *every single sub out there has been peer-reviewed and safety certified,* and that Rush allowed no peer review and no independent safety certification, and that engineers had quit or been fired for insisting that this be done! As James Cameron said, if you go down alone that far in your own uncertified vessel, that’s fine, that’s your choice, but that it was against every ethical guideline to take paying customers in it.
I suggest that Mr Pogue checks again on all the renowned companies and agencies that allegedly tested the Titan and helped engineering it ... 🙈
He has free ride maybe that's the reason
A brilliant host who lets the guest speak without interrupting making my experience in the whole video easy listening and a wonderful guest David Pogue too. Thank you both.
11:55 David Pogue drank the look aid too. This submersible and all submersibles are not meant for commercial/tourist travel. Stockton tried to build a niche in adventure tourism, a profitable one at that, and was doing it cheaply. Submersibles are not meant to be used over extended periods of time and are retired. No one said he couldn’t use the carbon fiber. The concern was the eventual fatigue. Having microphones on the submersible that would inform of cracks mid dive is asinine and dangerous versus the above ground testing experts said should have taken place.
Submersibles can be used for long periods of time. They just have to be refit and updated and repaired, inspected etc.
Alvin, the first sub to visit the Titanic, has made over 4000 dives in its lifetime, but it also doesn't share any parts with the Alvin of the 1970's, or 1980's, or even 1990's.
There are submersibles that have have been in service since the 60s and still going strong if they are built right go through frequent inspections and get frequently recertified with a proper maintenence program and refitt schedule they can thousands upon thousands of dives nobody builds a super expensive Submersible just to use 5 times and then retire and build new ones over and over . Nobody could afford that as submersibles are built for commercial profit making. Using titan too Many times was not the problem. Negligence and arrogance was.
90% of the decisions he made were to circumvent laws and safety standards!
Is this the same David Pogue tech guru who authored Pogue's Basics with a huge fan base that included me? How does he now appear oblivious to industry experts and brainwashed by Rush's branding re the Titan?
I don't buy it either. I couldn't cover for a man that had had a wise comment for safety and concerns and four other brilliant lives.
stockton rush drove everyone who had any experience out of oceangate and hired kids just out of school, it's safe to say when he was finished there was no one at oceangate who could challenge him and the place was full of yes men, so he could do what ever he wanted and he did and that was the real problem, he had a whole company at his disposal and nobody from outside could have any influence on him either, although experts tried to warn him !!!
I forgot that one of the Engineers a part of OceanGate, Stockton fired, because he had concerns!!!! Sorry, I'm far more comfortable with James Cameron's input than this once traveler & interviewer.
AGAIN!!! James Cameron is SO correct in saying that this will forever be another historical reminder of the arrogance of a human being, one man, & the debris of it, sits beside the Titanic once said b4 it left England, "...was unsinkable!!!" And so arrogant that the Titanic did not even have enough life boats!!!
Stockton built a suicide machine. Just because it didn’t implode on prior dives, doesn’t mean it would last forever. This year, next year, or year later, eventually it would implode sometime.
He just got lucky it didn’t happen during his past dives, which gave him few more years to live. This sub was doomed from the time of built. Cause it was done with risky engineering.
Also every dive gave him reassurance that sub can hold pressure. He was just waiting for only time to tell it. And here we are..
Yeah I don't get the whole it was a safe successful sub because it made several successful trips without imploding and they will say if there was an issue it would have imploded the first time which is just dumb . Defective planes don't crash on their first flight
The sub was built to operate for Many years and make thousands of dives .
Stockton Rush didn't create a sub with the idea of i want to build a submersible that will make 20 successful dives to Titanic and then implode on Trip 21 . The sub was meant to last for many years.
@@adamwatson6916 it's basically the Dehavilland Comet story, set underwater.
The floats were the EXCUSE to cancel the dive. There was probably a different actual reason.
They were not going to tell a Journalist that was there to do a PR puff piece that the sub had mechanical issues. One theory is that Stockton knew there would be no dive when he offered him David spot.
@@adamwatson6916 And if he canceled just because someone wasn't paying $250K that would imply he knew the hull had a limited number of cycles and didn't want to waste one.
David is conveniently forgetting the fact that many oceanic societies were screaming warnings at Stockton Rush in going into such dangerous depths with unproven design and materials!!
Or David is conveniently oblivious.
I doubt Stockton would have mentioned those to him
David has a case of Stockton syndrome he drank the salty salty kook-aid
This guy is cut from the same cloth as the late Stockton Rush. It's a wonder he is still breathing
What a great scoop. This interview illustrates perfectly how people were fooled by Rush. David is obviously an experienced journalist and lamiliar with the tech-ey stuff. A perfectly reasonable guy who believed what Rush said. And why wouldn't David believe persuasive Rush. Why would he think the man was exaggerating and lying?
All over the internet folks are saying "why in the heck did anybody get in that sub! What idiots!" Right - - now, we have hindsight and true revealing of what was really going on and what Rush was hiding. He didn't test. Didn't care about safety. There was no relationship with big impressive companies. There were no experts - and Rush had fired the expert who warned of failure.
That the sub was successful only 14% of the time is NOW being revealed. Experts are screaming that carbon fiber doesn't work under pressure...and in fact must have shattered, disintegrated, and up to now none has been recovered. No. The crackling was not a good sign as Rush would intimate. [what a freakin' lie!!!] It was the harbinger of doom.
I can't blame David for being the apologist for Rush...its humiliating to admit being fooled. But Rush was an expert - he fooled a lot of people, including four dead, and HIMSELF because even Rush believed his own lies.
Great Comment te7270! Rush could have been a great Used Car Salesman! Haha
@@jolovesminnis thanks. A charming ,well brought up, nicely mannered car salesman!
This is a great take. Its probably really hard to admit to yourself that you were fooled into almost loosing your life
People keep saying that none of the carbon fibre was recovered butt I'm not so sure. We could see the large pieces being lifted but it seems to me there were also containers on that boat, which might have contained smaller pieces.
I don't know if I'm right, but as there's no official inventory available to the public it seems like a bit assumption.
It's honestly shocking how effective this sort of thing is at confusing people...
The guy was like, 'That 4th seat is always a scientist to explain to you exactly what you're seeing - that's why it's not just an amusement park ride'
He just described a tour guide...
'He could have always sold that seat'
Rush said he never looked out the window at the Titanic because he was busy with the piloting...
How could he sell any expensive tickets for a tour of the Titanic, if there wasn't a tour guide?
"They kept going down till all the weak fibers died". Meaning there were no more fibers left to pop? Wtf kind of testing is that? I hope he listens to what he says and realises how he has been hoodwinked by stockton rush.
He was misinformed and he drank the Stockton Rush koolaid.
This is such a good example of how people buy into the stories of charismatic, confident people. Stockton Rush was a liar. PH didn't care if he died, and was a grieving widower so he was hardly a reason to trust.
I don't think it's his fault but he believed things that weren't true. And he is a sort of Stockton apologist.
It's scary how easy it is. This guy creeped me out almost as much as Rush did in that interview.
He has a good sense of humor. Many people cross bridges, ride on roller coasters, parachute from airplanes, etc. - trusting the engineers who designed them not to fail. Comparing him to a Jim Jones Flavor-Aid drinker is not really a good comparison. Those people knew they were going to die.
The thing poeple miss about the PH aspect is that PH was not a sub designer or engineer . The line about PH approving the design us bogus Ph did not approve the design nor was he even qualified to approve it he was not an engineer a designer or mechanic technician or submersible pilot . He was a Titanic expert and enem though he held the record for dives to Titanic he was just a passenger on submersibles that were designed built owned and piloted by others. People have this weird belief that Going down in a submersible a bunch of times makes you an expert on submersibles even if you never operated a sub and never designed or engineered one . Ph was an explorer and glorified submersible passenger.
I have seen a person's say that because James Cameron has been to Titianic 33 times he now knows more about submersibles then the people piloting the subs that take him down there and its utterly ridiculous to claim the passenger knows more about the sub then the pilot. . If the sub pilot didn't know more about the submersible he was piloting then his passenger he would not be the pilot. You think if there is a malfunction with the sub the pilot us going to ask James Cameron what is wrong with the sub .
PH did not approve the design. The sub was complete before his involvement..i
It's like saying you know more about air planes than the pilots do because you have flown a bunch of times. Ph has been on many dives in various submersibles bur he is not a submersible expert.
What did poeple think you sit in a submersible and everything about the submersible just enters your brain through osmosis ?
@@adamwatson6916but Cameron was part of the team that built his sub plus it's a solo sub so he was the pilot.
Ph was remarried
This interview is great. Alex has the most calming demeanor. Dave seems like a cool guy yet unfortunately trusted a narcissist who gaslit him into believing how “safe” it wasn’t. Thank goodness his wife said no more crazy lol
David Pogue wrong again because he insists on giving Stockton Rush the benefit of the doubt. Rush's system did go off, so he heard the cracking of the hull in the last moments. AND the danger of mixture of different metals, if true -- Rush was also warned about that too. So there really is no defense for Rush's deliberate and willful recklessness.
I read some of the comments and I just can't fathom how some people can be so naive and just plain stupid .
I am listening to Mr. Pogue and all that I can say is "Oh My God !!!" He just believed all and anything Rush told him because it seems as if he was too focused on being able to boast his seeing the wreck of the Titanic .
At 12:10, the guest either completely misses, or simply ignores, the fact that *the subs used by James Cameron and all of the other he disingenuously mentioned were “one-offs,” but they were 100% tested and inspected for safety “one-offs,”* unlike the Titan, which was also an experimental “one-off” taking paying tourists. And that every dive Rush made with his uninspected “one-off” was done to avoid safety regulations
Pogue comes off as defensive and as more an OceanGate p.r. person than a news reporter.
David Pogue should be very careful when he talks about how safe Titan was, especially quoting what Rush said, which turned out to be lies.
Okay, I was all in on his reasonableness until he started talking about the hull warning systen, the ⅓ scale model, boeing and university of washington etc.
A lot were lies made by Rush, and the vessel was barely even made to go 4000meters down, when any competent engineer would design it to at least go 6000 meters, if it regularly would go 4000. You design 50% extra normally, you DON'T design it to be within 200 meters of crushing depth when operating nornally, especially not with such small margins at such huge depths!
The scariest thing is that the "settling in" of the vessel, meaning the creaking and sounds made all the way from 300 feet down to max depth, was actually the vessel slowly but actively being pulled apart in such a way as to give little to no warning. The famous hull damage warning system was mainly to catch damage made while trabsported above water between jobs, as the system wiuld be entirely pointless if it gave AT BEST 20 minutes of severe warnings, very possibly much less, while actively taking at least an hour, but normally two hours to get back up.
Given they had released the emergency ascent weights, but also were relatively close to the bottom an hour ahead of time, or over 1200 meters lower than would be standard, about 1 hour and 45 minutes instead of the two and a half that is optimal, they were weighed down way too heavily, which is confirmed by thrir incredibly rapid abd dangerously fast descent, as well as basically almost standing still, ascending back up like 50 meters, or less than 100 keters at least, in those last 20 minutes if somewhat panic.
If ut had just been made of one material, and had an escape hatch in addution to their manual, hydraulic, timed and electric emergency ascent options, basically if any little thing was changed, it would've gone so differently!
I'm just sad that it's almost presented by this guy as an unfortunate accident, instead of a slowly but predictably crash in slow motion!
This wasn't a freak accident, it was basically a hidden design bonus that anyone can achieve if they design their vessel the same way, so that with enough trips anyone would end up the same!
By the way, I believe their success rate was around 14%. Fourteen percent of their dives hit the titanic, the rest dus not. And even on basically ALL the successful ones, there were problems. And if not direct problems, you still would hear all the way up and down, the sound of the vessel straining under repeated pressure tests, literally being slowly, ever so slightly, being pushed apart. It wasn't even a silent affair, as he (Rush) had just convinced himself and everyone sitting in that that was how it should sound. The sound of the pressure vessel, the only little tube separating them from and keeping them alive in a unsurvivable environment, being actively pulled apart slowly and loudly, was so normalised that they weren't even wirried until their subpar warning system warned them way too late while already being in a position where they just could not do anything but slowly wait, while listening to the vessel putting up the last little fight as it was likely trapped down there, as im guessing the reason they sank so fast was unnatural water weight, likely why battery A gave out too. After a certain point, just like the titanic, they were doomed, as even dropping everything, climbing 100 meters in 20 minutes is basically atill sinking at that point, when youre 3500 meters underwater with 0 chance of saving yourself, and 0 chance of being saved either, as there were no sagety features. Rush was aware that when the moment finally happened, there was no saving them, as the vessel was built to survive, and if it didng go to pman, there was no backup plan....
James Cameron’s documentary Challenger Deep he explains why a sphere is the best shape to use for a sub. Pressure is distributed evenly
PH was probably the reason the rest of the passengers felt comfortable going as well.
David Pogue lost his journalistic objectivity because he liked Stockton Rush. He really has so many defenses for Rush who clearly was arrogant, ignorant and reckless.
Ignorant? Bet u didn't graduate from Princeton with an engineering degree. Bet your not worth millions either. The guy was Far from Ignorant. Arrogant maybe, but he earned that right far as I'm concerned. People in these comment sections who've probably accomplished NOTHING in their lives have all the answers. But then again we're still alive so there's that. The dude was too smart for his own good. He was far from "Ignorant". That comment is Ignorant . 🤣 Oh well I'm Ignorant too so don't feel bad.
I don’t agree with that assessment. David is honest and REPORTS what he sees & feels in a balanced way. I appreciate him telling THE WHOLE STORY BEHIND THE SCENES instead of trying to stir controversy & outrage by focusing only on Stocktons negative traits.
David Pouge spent 9 days with Ocean Gate & Stockton & PH. David knows much more than you and I.
You don’t achieve anything in life by not trying.
Stockton was NOT a homicidal manic. He didn’t want to die! He was passionate about the deep ocean. He went to Princeton & got an engineering degree. After building & testing airplanes he designed an experimental submersible & an innovative platform to launch it. But in order reach his dreams he had to take paying customers.
21:55 - Stockton genuinely believed he had built a safe machine. 23:04 - Read the transcripts Pouge explains and learn about the extensive testing actually performed. The media narrative makes it look like he was the worlds greatest idiot. But TRUTHFULLY Ocean Gate had a very strong safety culture - and Stocktons sub went to Titanic SAFELY at least a dozen times!
Maybe Stockton was wrong about the DESIGN in the long term, but OPERATIONALLY the safety culture was there - even if social media chooses to ignore it.
@@michaeldonnelly2977 Sure thing, Dave.
agree, this interview is rather disappointing. Not the interviewers fault but despite having read Pogue's interviews with Rush ( the full CBS transcripts) when it comes to the engineering Pogue is out of his depth. Better analyses are available - the last piece in the New Yorker the reporter there has really got OceanGate's number - and RUclipss like this one ruclips.net/video/6LcGrLnzYuU/видео.html
I think he is right about the bubbles forming in between the carbon cylinder and the titanium cap. After I saw a video of those two being glued together, this looks like the most logical outcome.
His response to you questioning his acceptance of the safety of the sub was "he told us..."
And so what? He's an investigative reporter, he has to listen and report. He's not a scientist, he's not an engineer.
Its absolutely not true that titan had 20 successful dives to Titanic. There were only 13 successful dives and 86 failed attempts. He is trying to convince people that every dive was a success without incident but even on the 13 successful dives there were major problems and mechanical/electrical failures. He fails to mention that on one dive the Pilot discovered that one thruster was installed backwards and they could not do anything but spin in circles and had to reprogram the game controller on the fly. He also does not mention another trip where they had a power failure and rush told everyone to go to sleep . How would he know that there were 20 dives with no incidents when he wasn't on those dives ? He seems to still believe everything Rush told him ..
Maybe he does not want to admitt he had been duped .
Typically maximum strength is achieved with a spherical one piece titanium shell. But "gluing" dissimilar materials together that expand differently during cycles of compression is just a bad concept. Add to that the lack of Certification for the carbon fiber body.. It should have been all Titanium; not just the end caps. The pressures at that depth are just beyond enormous.
Yes! Why cheap cf when so much is ALREADY high strength?
And look at the conditions under which this gluing took place...in a warehouse, with no attempt at cleanliness and people wiping down surfaces with rags...just lunacy and amateurishness.
I’ve watched this twice now - first time I thought “come on Dave” then as I watched again I see David’s true feelings and time after implosion he’s still in shock and believed in Stockton
Like some German believe on Hitler
Still the acrylic porthole window was only rated for 1,300 M-that should have been it's dive limit-you are only as strong as your weakest link. Alvin has made over 4,500 dives.
22:56 You shouldn't have any "fibers popping" in a safe hull at those pressures. (Strain hardening occurs with metal hulls but not composites, so sounds heard when diving with metal hulls are not as big a concern as with composites.) Those noises could also be due to the epoxy delaminating from the fibers, not just the fibers failing. Carbon fiber buckles under tremendous external pressures, especially if cyclic on repeated dives, leading to inward buckling and delamination of the composite. It isn't conjecture, it's a physical certainty and a matter of time before it fails. Failure at the seal between the titanium end caps and the carbon fiber epoxy hull is also a possible failure mode as they compress at different rates under pressure and were only glued together manually, however I feel this scenario was slightly less likely. The third failure mode with the acrylic window is also a possibility but probably the least likely as it likely was engineered with a factor of safety despite its rating for only higher depths. We will just have to see what the accident investigation report shows.
Also I just want to add that the acoustic monitoring system was not the safest idea because the failure modes of the sub were not fully known, and hence the amount of warning such a system would give prior to a catastrophic failure was unknown at best. And at worst, it would only give warning a few milliseconds prior to failure. Carbon fiber epoxy is much more brittle than metal, so rather than yielding, it can fail without warning. This is of course just my opinion, but based a little on my background having a Ph.D. in materials science and engineering. Also I'm a big fan of David Pogue and love his enthusiasm for science and his communication skills, so this is nothing against him or his views.
The recent testimony at the uscg hearings seems to match you opinion from a year ago.
Shoot! They edited the footage where Pogue drinks the Kool-Aid.
He is delusional for sure
I think he is in denial about the misjudgement of the risk he took with this trip. If he would accept that it was a mistake going on board this sub, he would need to change his life and work and he does not want to do that. That is why he is so passionately and emotionally insisting about it being safe.
David, carbon fiber did fail. Didn't you see the salvage operation where they were bringing up the titanium end caps, the steel frame legs, etc., but NO carbon fiber cylinder!
Totally agree. Not sure why David is so confident about the carbon fiber. I don't see that any of the pressure vessel was recovered, just the titanium end caps and steel legs. The prevailing expert opinion is that the repetitive pressure cycles on the carbon fiber vessel reduced its strength until it failed.
According to the unofficial transcript that is out, all the sensors turned red meaning there was massive hull failure most likely.
The industry should name a new color after Rush and his sensors; 'IDIOT LIGHT RED'
I hope someone with some notable talent spoofs this tub and draws it with all of its state of the art high tech amenities like a smoke detector with high volume sprinkler system, an 8 point o
He should interview Pogue again now that the transcript between the submersible and mother ship surfaced (assuming it's the real thing). At least get this transcript verified one way or the other.
And then get Pogue's view on why the submersible was descending 50% faster than normal.
Then get his view on the 18 minutes of terror for the passengers with all of the warning bells going off.
Also get his thoughts on why after dropping ballast and the sub's external frame, the sub was only ascending at a very slow rate.
I'm pretty sure he will change his opinion on at least 2 things: 1. the passengers knew they could die for at least a few minutes, 2. the carbon fiber failed or at least the joint failed (in either case, it was poor engineering or poor maintenance or both).
Overall I was very surprised to see someone speaking so positively about OceanGate and all the testing and innovation. When actually, the only innovation was they built a very dangerous experimental submersible that would probably implode some day.
Well the experiment is finally over, and I doubt anyone attempts it again.
I Like David and I like the interview. The Coming months were going to find out what failed / what didn't. Heavy weights in the industry warned against the CF hull design. The issue is the craft wasn't certified, he was taking passenger money in lawless waters in what we're now calling an experimental submersible. Nasa, Boeing and the University of Washington have all said they had nothing to do with this design or building the submersible. If i were to guess the lawsuits (coming) will hold up. OceanGate misrepresented the danger involved. Theres loads of text messages floating around of Stockton saying scuba diving is more dangerous / crossing the road etc. The Situation and his reputation would be very different if it was just him on the sub when this happened.
The part where David thought they cut the Wi-Fi on the ship because he may have tweeted a negative comment is an example of how just scratching the surface will yield answers. I just watched a 45 minute webinar Stockton made in December 2021. He explains that the mothership has only one satellite connection via Inmarsat. He said staying in touch with the mainland is very important, and the bandwidth seems to jam up when everyone is active on the Internet at once, like after dinner time on the ship. Looks like that employee was telling Pogue the truth. Also, I don’t think Ocean Gate was popular enough last year for his tweet to gain any traction. I hope David reads this message.
A journalist with the same level of hubris as Stockton Rush. I guess he missed the part where the submersible imploded.Try listening to Scott Manley, or James Cameron.
Love the professional calm "succient" tone of your interview Alex! Great professional interview!
💯 agree
If there’s one thing I’ve learned in my life it’s that people will say what you want to hear. Additionally your mind will also fill in the blanks with what you NEED to hear! Enjoyed this and it brought up some good points. cheers.
Fantastic Interview. My respect for David is LARGE. He DID in fact submit a fair and objective report on Titan last year and Ocean Gate was NOT Happy. I thought he was very fair and did highlight the issues with the sub. And his viewpoint NOW is also very fair
23:03 That's how Stockton believed it worked but I've heard no engineer discussing the possible failure points of the design of the submersible corroborate that. Unlike titanium or steel which *strengthens* after being subjected to extreme pressure, carbon fiber gets *weaker,* with every successive dive. Those 'crackling' sounds are failure points that are being introduced / exacerbated that only compound with every dive cycle. He seems to have been misappropriating the idea of the very real 'Kaiser effect', applying it to carbon fiber despite him (as a lecture he gave here admits: ruclips.net/video/9PGpjEDc96I/видео.html) having personally encountered the opposite phenomen. This seemingly baseless hypothesis of Stockton's about the fibers doing the exact opposite of what actually was happening was one of his more egregious errors. He didn't take his own testing seriously at all despite having multiple "sphincter tightening" experiences at 4k ft. in regards to the popping noises of the hull when there "should have" been only one.
Also the claim he made about collaborating in any substantive way with the University of Washington was denied by them outright. He pretty much just used their testing facilities. Same deal with NASA and Boeing, the two other entities he cited who had even less association. Big red flags.
Being an innovator is fine if you're willing t/risk only your own skin in the game. Not so in this case and that's what makes the Titan's loss so tragic. Rest in Peace ❤.
A follow-up interview now will be invaluable, which helps with understanding more of human mind.
According to his enthusiasm,
i have a feeling this David Pogue guy would have been one heck of reporter witness during titan's last trip to titanic
I wish alex asked him about why Rush didn’t do non destructive testing and why he never got it classed/inspected by a third party. If you’re SO SURE about your submersible, then why wouldn’t you do that? It’s a simple answer - because Rush knew it wouldn’t be classed to safely go to 3800 meters (and hence - no titanic wreck expeditions/no paycheck). There’s no other reason, especially not to AT LEAST do NDT
It is very interesting to hear someone on the other side of the spectrum of opinions on this tragedy. This was someone very enthusiastic like the DALLMYDED youtuber that almost went down in the sub.
Unfortunately… as I can see in other comments too…. Rush knew how to pinpoint his targets with his narcissism and pick up people vulnerable and excited to see the Titanic.
But still it’s good to hear someone talk about it all in a less negative fashion.
But I appreciate the negative angles too because God knows these innocent people lost their lives and we can’t deny that.
Well he's defiantly on some kind of spectrum !! He still 100% believes that Stockton was right and every other world leading expert is just jealous! The guy MCL ever even got to see the bloody titanic 😂
Axial pressure tends to reduce dimension between End Caps.
Radial pressure tends to reduce Cylindrical Body diameter.
The junction between Caps and Body will deform each time as the vessel rises and sinks.
He’s in major denial, which is understandable because it would be hard to reconcile, in retrospect having foolishly put your life at risk. All of these redundancies don’t mean a thing if the glue gave out.
Great interview. Thank you for the opportunity to hear such a great behind the scenes story first hand.
My pleasure, thanks for watching!
@Alex.kantrowitz enjoyed the interview immensely...
But, unfortunately, you fall into the familiar that a lot of these podcasts on RUclips fall into.... asking questions...
A few times... you go on and on and on and...
Keep it short... and then just....listen
Have your next question ready, but, if youe subject says something that goes off in a different direction, be prepared to improvise and feed off that...
And a good example of this.. unless I missed it, a good followup woulda been when Pogue said that OceanGate didn't like his initial story... WHY didn't OceanGate not like the story..etc
I've heard in other vlogs the Titan was tested to failure with an all carbon fibre body.
The end caps failed, hence they were changed to titanium - then never tested to failure again.
It was the wish of the traditional owners, the Anangu people that visitors stop climbing the sacred rock, Uluru
This played a part in the decision of the Uluru-Kata Tjuta National Park board to unanimously ban the climb
Why didn't you ask about the multiple letter and discussion to and with Stockdon about the concerns of the Titan?
Very interesting.
I'd say that the reason that you didn't hear so much about the boat in Greece that went down is geography. The Oceangate incident was on your doorstep practically, but the boat going down in Greece is so much further away. Also, the outcome was clear with the boat, but nobody knew what had happened to the submersible. Where I live in Central Europe, the sinking boat in Greece was big news for a bit, but the outcome was clear. There were questions about the actions of the coastguard which came out later.
People who were saying "why should we save rich people" were just ridiculous. You could also say "should we let people die because they're rich" if you go that route. If it came to it, you could give them the bill for their rescue after. I don't think they'd mind!
Great interview Alex. You let the subject say all he needs to say, and your questions were very relevant.
Gave him enough rope to hang himself, lol.
I've sort of second guessed most people's reports/opinions on OG and the Titan, professionals and non-professionals, but I think David has the most unbiased report, so much appreciated to hear more of his experience! This has fascinated me from the moment I read it was missing.
Crazy that this excellent talk has under 1K views after 3 days.
Thanks for spreading the word! Hopefully it'll build up a bit more :)
At 23:00 minutes he says the following, “it was tested by some of the greatest minds in submersibles” that is an astounding and utterly untrue thing to say.
It seems that carbon fiber is OK when there is more pression inside than outside, not the other way around (it cracks and collapse). It is rather easy to get the intuition of it when you see how the cylinder was built, a bit like "glued headbands". It was a huge mistake to get inspired by planes for submarines; NASA, Boeing UW did not backup this design they say.
I’ve heard the carbon fiber was out of date materials Boeing would not use. That also was the extent of their collaboration with Boeing! Rush was an arrogant idiot and Liar!
I knew nothing if it prior but with the briefest of youtube searches etc I went straight to implosion, I never gave any thought to the knocks or 90 hour oxygen countdown.
Pogue got several things wrong in this interview. The French scientist said in an interview aired on several channels that he trusted Rush's engineering skills implicitly and didn't question him too about the safety of the design and construct. Like Pogue, he was taken in by Rush.
Mr pogue says it went to the titanic 20 times, I am reading that it went to the Titanic successfully on three times, what is the right number
I love how David is being interviewed he deserves it ❤❤
This is the first video of yours ive come across. I checked out your channel and love your content. Decided to subscribe. Good stuff.
Thank you! Welcome aboard!
22:48 (the moment he realizes this explanation makes no sense)... hes describing the hull getting weaker each test dive. Tests that 'aimed' to kill weak fibers? Sure makes sense to me. 😏
I understand his feelings and his friendship with Stockton Rush. Sorry for his loss.
I don't understand his lack of critical thinking as a journalist though. He should have interviewed those who held different opinions than Rush had. Where was the balance?
So he accuses those who disagree with him as having hate? Typical playing of the victim card.
I would like to hear more though from those who have designed or led a team in the design of submersibles. James Cameron has made 33 trips to the Titanic wreckage. He also led the design of the submersible that he piloted to the Challenger Deep, more than twice the depth of the Titanic.
25:32 is a great analogy.
Due to how it was designed and built, to dive in Rush's Titan was like playing Russian Roulette, with the added risk that each cycle, more bullets are added to the chamber.
“He was clever using carbon fibre” said no one ever.
Excellent interview. I hadn’t seen this channel. Alex Kantrowitz has a very pleasant and relaxing interview style which is very nice to listen to.
Does it not strike him that the "cancelled" dive was not pre-planned so that there was a reason to not go down, but just whet the appetite?
I never expected David Pogue to be such a staunch supporter of the man who almost killed him. The research that Mr. Rush allegedly engaged in is no excuse to put the public in danger. The one thing I learned from this interview is that David could easily be influenced by a person who can give the best story and say all the right things.
The contrast of listening to Eric Clapton while the carbon fibers protecting you audibly crack around you at the cold dark bottom of the ocean has to be some BioShock type horror
What a story to be able to tell.
OMG- the sub is safer than a rocket???? Did he really say that, seriously???? I think he is still bamboozled my Rush- still in shock i think.
I love David from the Nova shows. He was in, and I knew about this submersible based on seeing his intelrview last year. Great interview.
You don't find delusional and out of touch? He is still pending Stockton Rush fantasy and is trying to convince poeple the sub was safe . He is either delusional in denial or worse an outright liar . He is stil peddling the lies of Stockton Rush .
Methinks David Pogue has indulged in a little too much koolade, as Nick Van Leek has said. Rush wound his story up like the carbon fibre, just in one direction, the Titan was his baby, his dream and nothing and nobody was going to stand in his way. His objective was all and anyone who thought differently, who objected to his great plan for the Titan were basically iimbeciles. They could not see through his eyes and sadly, he could not see through the eyes of those who predicted his ultimate death
The more Pogue defends Rush, the greater I would say one ought to fear for his sanity, to a greater or lesser degree.
Rest In Peace to the Dawoods, Harding and Nargeolet. They did not have to die for Rush but he was doomed to die at some point due to his inability to see through the flaws he had instigated. It was not innovation. It was stupidity, hubris and I so hope nobody will try his ideas again. The world needs wise men and women yes, those who can brave the mysteries of the oceans, space and exploration of other worlds but not to take such insane risks to lives other than their own, lives if people who do not fully understand or totally appreciate how easy it could be for them to die needlessly, and for what .. just to prove one man's point.
Mr.Pogue, sorry but you are halfway there Stop drinking the koolade and believing the hype fed to you by people who do know better but for the sake of pride, arrogance and the search for their names to be forever remembered, let bit the infant if Stockton Rush blind you and turn you into something you are really not, or ought not be.
David pogue paints rush in a positive light , David go tell the family's on the dead passengers
I DO care about the science of it that's why I've watched DOZENS of videos about it by Actual scientists (not panties in a wad reporters) and they UNIVERSALLY STATE that this homemade sub had Several serious safety design issues and that it was MORE dangerous the more dives it made....
despite this dude saying it was tested over and over....he's GOT to be intentionally misdirecting away from the ACTUAL Danger of cyclic failure
I don't think that he's very intelligent. As also evidenced by the fact that he chose to go a dive to 12,500 ft in that deathtrap.
This was an excellent interview. I've been following this story and still watching for updates on the investigation. Very glad to have come across your channel - new subscriber. Thank you.
Thank you, welcome!
It's all well and good but he didn’t do the one thing he needed to which was to test the number of cycles the pressure vessel could withstand. And send it deep enough to failure. Only then would there be an idea of the engineering safety margin and life cycle for retirement.
I'm not up to speed on this story so I've got to ask: Is Mr. Pogue employed by Oceangate? Seems like an awful lot of copium considering that, had his dive not been aborted, it could easily have been him on the fatal voyage.
I know that its fashonable to totally trash the whole Titan thing, but it went down there many times. It was an experimental vessel with many highly intelligent diligent people working on it. The people obviously felt comfortable going down there despite the risk. Were mistakes made? Of course. Is it really bad what happened? Of course. Would I have gone on that thing? No. But do they deserve all the vehement hateful comments? I dont think so.
Hi Alex - your video was recommended on youtube algorithm - like most others - this event caught my eye. Came for the interview which was great, really thoughtful questions, however am subscribing as I browse your channel I can see some very interesting contemporary topics. Thanks! ☺️
Hi! Thank you so much! Really appreciate it! Hope you enjoy the channel!