What's The Ultimate Bicycle Gearbox? Rohloff Hub VS Pinion Gearbox
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- Опубликовано: 8 июл 2024
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0:00 - Intro
0:45 - Gear Range
1:36 - Gear Steps
2:32 - Drive Efficiency
3:07 - Weight
3:24 - Noise
3:43 - Gear Pickup
4:45 - Shifting
5:12 - Oil Changes
5:34 - Price
5:54 - Product Refinement Period
6:18 - Warranty
6:34 - Retrofitting
7:03 - Wheel Swaps
7:35 - Mountain Biking
8:00 - Hike-A-Bike
8:18 - eBikes
8:53 - Cable Changes
9:13 - Aftermarket Shifters
9:47 - Summary 
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I've been using a Rohloff for a decade and about 85000km now. Initially the first 7 gears whirred a bit but that disappeared soon. I lightened the whole gear-range for mountain trips but after that I just cycled and cycled and cycled. Oil change every year during a good clean-up and then ready for another year. For my usage (long distance, multi-day trips, 50/50 paved/gravel) I would not consider a pinion gear-cluster. I love the reliability and use of use.
Rohloff has a 4% higher efficiency, is lighter and doesn't require a odd frame like the Pinion does so a easy win for the Rohloff if you ask me.
Plus the wide array of aftermarket shifters. Personally, being stuck with grip-shifters would be an instant no-go.
It's all about what you want to do with the bike I reckon. I'm more on the pinion side. I used an Alfine 11 on one bike as a cheap way into the world of geared hubs, but the weight of a geared hub on the back axle absolutely ruins the feel of a bike on rough surfaces and especially trails. The lack of trigger shifter availability for the pinion would annoy me too, but the real downside is that there's almost nothing on the market in terms of frames that'll take a pinion gearbox so derailleurs is still win this one for the MTB/Gravel type spins I do.
I'd love to be able to run a belt drive as chain maintenance is by far the biggest consumer of my time in keeping my bikes running. The slow drive pickup in certain gears on both systems is also a worry on tech climbs, I have a couple of bikes with old Shimano 16 click hubs and the amount of free travel before they pick up is shocking now that I'm used to a minimum of 36 engagements (Free play from 22.5 degrees to 10 degrees is a huge difference, going from 36 to 120 clicks is barely noticeable based on a 120 click hub I ran, as the benefits are very much into diminishing returns past 30-40 clicks). Shock loads to the drivetrain are much lower if the drive engages fast too, so there's an incentive from a gearbox durability point of view to pick up drive fast.
@@MannequinOngaku I personally don't mind grip shifters, but it would be nice if they would make them hydraulic like brakes so that they were easier to shift in the rain.
Noise kills the Rohloff for me. No way I go through all the trouble of a belt drive and hub only to have a bike that's noisier than a chain.
Rohloff has a weight/watts limit. I killed three in a row before they told me that. I did learn to build my own wheelset because of it....lol
The only thing I can remember after watching this video is the price tag of the gear boxes
Both companies are german. So don't expect low cost products.
Yea I'll just go buy a whole motorcycle for that price
I have had my Rohloff for over 12 years and it has been on three different XC frames and with about 8 different rims. I have only changed the oil every year as maintenance. Total cost to date averages out to less than the price of a bought coffee every week or two. You could also factor in the reduced amount of chains that you have to replace.
@@sgtjonmcc yes and I can buy a car for 1/3rd the price. What's your point? We're talking about high end bicycles which can run years on end with very low maintenance and almost no ownership cost. A motorbike has higher ownership cost and it's a motorbike not a bicycle..?
@@smiche2 exactly! Plus you also need license, insurance, and road tax for motor vehicles
Thank you for detailed view to this two gearboxes. Since 16 month I have had a bike with a Rohloff Gearbox for my commuter bike. It is very lightweight and sportive for every day use. It is the best choise for me and for people who need a flexible gearbox system!!
Thanks for the videos. The level of detail is refreshing and extremely helpful. Have a safe journey!
Thanks for watching!
Dude you are the wizard of making techy info understandable for people (like me 😁) I did a bike mechanic course for a big tour I made. While dealing with derailleurs and looking into other options I found out about the Rohloff and Pinion. The surcharge of the Pinion made the choice easier. Haven’t had any regrets. I love it so much! Thanks for your work and have a good one!
I'm stoked you love your Rohloff! 😎
Well... I guess I'm gonna have to use both in a single bike! 🤔
Do it - we'll all have 252 gears and a belt drive in the future :-)...
I can't find it now, but someone did this and posted a video a while back. It was pretty troll. You get the downsides of both, and lose some of the upsides of both, but you can pedal at whatever speed you want.
@@tonyk8368 so you can pedal uphill at 0.5km/h and 500km/h on flat terrain ?
Upshift with one and simultaneously downshift with the other 😀
@@tonyk8368 it was Tout Terrain who combined the Pinion and Rohloff into a single bike... Here's the video: ruclips.net/video/e-ig-R65yHg/видео.html
I never thought a comparison of gear shifters could be that extensive. Well done!
Why cables & not Blue Tooth? It doesn't have be motor drive to us motorised shifting!
Great review! I have a C1.12 on my bikepacking bike and a Rohloff on my tandem. Your assessment is spot on! If you go with a C1.12, you save about 600g AND you have some aftermarket options for shifting (dropbar and flat bar from Cinq). Of course, you lose 6 gears and therefore have a bigger cadence jump between gears. The only complaint I have about my Pinion is the slow engagement, so if they can fix that, I’ll be totally satisfied with it.
Thanks for this awesome guide!
I was always quite concerned about spoke/rim failures during long distance bike touring, and a hub gearbox would make it way harder to fix such problems.
Therefore, it is quite exciting to see that Pinion offers a completely different concept of bicycle gearboxes.
After some months of research, starting with this video, I have just decided on a new Pinion touring bike for my own world trip. And it somehow wasn't as expensive as I expected, top tier Pinion touring bikes start at about 4000 € in germany (e.g. TX-1200 by Vsf)
Great vid - thank you! I've had two Rohloff touring bikes, and then bought a cheap 2nd hand fat bike with derailleur/chain. It is very reliable with wide gear range. I was pleasantly shocked at how good it was to ride! Would love to try a pinion gearbox/belt now for my own comparisons
I have run a pinion p18 on my e trike for 5 years ,using a hub motor, i love it’s near silent operation,and it’s reliably. Never had an issue,not once, though i put around 1000 miles combined dirt trails and paved trails as it is easy to swap out tires.
Great information 👍 Very clear, compact, detailed and nicely illustrated. Well done... and please keep on making more films! 🥇
Thank you! Will do!
For more than 15 years I am very satisfied with my Rohloff gearbox on a trecking bike. 3 years ago I exchanged the bottom bracket for an aftermarket mid-motor and the rear sprocket for a slightly smaller one, and now I have one of the best and most lightweight e-bikes in my area. I would always take a Rohloff again. And yes, I always try to avoid gear 7 and use the 1:1 gear 8 instead.
not only particular this video, in general most of your videos are really informative. thank you
I really enjoy all the great information that you provide. I'm finally able to understand how these gearboxes work. I also understand now about belt drives, in fact, I am learning the simplicity and easy maintenance. Thank you so much for the technical information.
This guy is a professor on topics about bicycles.
But not a professional on price.
If this stuff was as good as he claims we would see it used in the Tour and on MTBs. But no, these hokey designs are for nerds that theorize the superiority while doing recreational riding. Why would hub engagement speed matter? Start pedalling 1/100 of a second sooner!
@@Zzzzzzzzzzzzjjjj I am to a degree. I know the Rohloff hub was interesting to me when I was doing 10-12 hour MTB rides, but now that I do more conventional trail riding it doesn't. My snarkiness comes from dealing with the occasional customer that comes in my shop and lectures me on the superiority of steel frames, Brooks saddles and alternative drivetrains. Hey as long as I don't have to ride it it's all good, but I'm looking for a better riding experience, not a hipster bicycle.
He speaks in data bursts! Very annoying. Expert but not so winsome. He does a great job otherwise.
Nah. His not an expert in MTB and roads
Rohloff is built in my hometown Kassel, easy win for the Rohloff :)
Gotta support the local guys!
Kassel beste :) Ich Support meine Heimat am Fahrrad :D
Great comparison and review. So detailed and we done. Thank you!
Enjoyed hearing your thoughts. I have a pinion bike coming in early April and I’m anxious to try it. It’s my first non derailleur bike.
Both gear boxes a pretty good and perfect. Your research is very precise and based on facts. My 15 years old Rohloff had a leakage at the left hand side. They exchanged the sealing for free including assembly work of my bicycle dealers. My 3 years old pinion had a leakage, Pinion exchange the sealing for free but I had to pay the assembly work of mu bicycle dealer. So my experience was, Rohloff gives the better service.
Sold on the Rohloff.
Fascinating. Seriously fascinating. I started out thinking that the Rohloff was the ultimate in non-derailleur set ups on bikes. Then, on RUclips, I discovered the Pinion. I’m considering both options. 😀
Very comprehensive and thorough presentations. Well done.
Thank You so very much Sir , your efforts to explain the science of my favorite hobby, ..has added immensely to my enjoyment of the worlds greatest invention.
Best,
Ken
I'm glad you liked it!
I really appreciate the level of detail here. As I prefer a much more intense gear range and quieter ride, the Pinion is my go!
Wow, love how comprehensive & technical you are . And now I want pinion & Roloff & new shimano & on my next .custom bikes . Great job & by a great professional enthusiast !" CHEERS" !
Just bought the Priority 600. This video made me feel fine about my purchase.
The mountain bike with the pinion gets my eyes ☺️👌🏻
Great Review! Riding Pinion P1.18 and Rohloff bikes daily I can only agree with everything you say here. Especially coupled with Gates carbon drive.
I love the Pinion best. Maybe only because it cost the most 😀
Keep up the best touring content on the Internet!
I love the Pinion uniformity, smoothness, quiet and center of gravity. Plus the new magnesium C1.12 is lighter and more efficient than the P.18 compared here.
Thank you! Great info. in a compact and to the point presentation. Great work!
Thank you for the very fair minded comparison. Many of the advantages for the two drives depended highly on the style of riding, with the Pinion the hands down winner for those in the off-road camp. Since my riding is touring and paved bike trails, the Rolhoff is the clear choice for my recumbent tadpole trike.
I owned a Rohloff for about one month, and I still miss it. I purchased a titanium (Seven) touring bike a a pawn shop with a Rohloff, couplers, and a Son dynamo for $1000.00. The bike was too small, but I wanted the parts. My friend rode it and begged me to sell it to him, so I made an extra $1000.00. He is still riding it and would never part with it, and I am still dreaming of a gear box bike. Thanks for the review, because I am shopping for the right frame right now...
I think the P 18 is a great gear box. I have a Idworx Opinion BLT with an electric Alber drive train (got rid of my car in the covid period and commute now with my bike and electric drive train; 18-22 km) and can change the rear wheel in 5 minutes and have the full advantages of the pinion 18 gears on a normal mountain bike. I admit, when using an electric rear drive train the P 18 is an overkill - a P12 is enough - but I have the best of both worlds. I have 2 great bikes for the price of 1; it is a lot of money, but I save over $ 2.000 a year in public transport for my work and this makes a sound business case even spending $ 12.000 on a bike. Hope to see you all in the fall in the USA when I want to take my e-bike on a trip from New York to Key West along the Eastern Divide Trail.
Have a Speedhub for 18 years now. Some oil leaks at the beginning, but it was retrofitted with new seals and now works flawless for 15 years or so. Can really recommend it. Also I know the inventor of this marvel: Berni Rohloff is an awesome human beeing!
Thanks for a very informative presentation. For me the wheel interchangeability and ease of removing the gearbox win for me.
I like them both but can't afford either one. So, there you go.
get a FXE
After watching this, I need to start saving up for a gearbox bike mated to a belt drive frame. I’m done with derailleurs.
DeFAILeurs. LOL
What is wrong with derailleurs?
@@Don19762 Exposed. If there was a full chain case they would be ok.
@@Don19762 They fail at higher speeds on electric bikes.
I have chewed through two sets of gears and one derailer in around 6 months.
The power the BBSHD mid drive motors push out chew though everything connected to it even if you do baby the gears.
You could save the gears and derailer if you didn't change the gears but then you'll lose either top speed, acceleration or battery life.
@@difflocktwo Mike Burrows made a prototype modern city bike with a cast grp frame, and integral chaincase. The concept was for an enclosed derailleur system, the rear mech to have three jockey wheels. He asked some derailleur manufacturers if they could make a shifter to work within his concept - they could, but felt that they would not sell enough product to make the development and tooling costs worth it.
Brutally honest and fair as a saint. Thanks for sharing this video has solidified my choice for an ebike build there are options for the pinion and ebike but the modern style allows for only one
I had to watch this twice, first for the tech and a second time for the fantastic sceneries! Thanks a lot for both.
Glad you enjoyed it!
My favorite channel. You should have 500,000 subscribers.
AND THE WINNER OF THE ROHLOFF VS. PINION SHOOTOUT IS...Shimano! That's right, you didn't even know they were a competitor, but they win by default because they're the only option you can realistically afford!
Great analysis. Clear and to the point. Well done!
I built up a ti pinion bike 4K miles ago. Like a lot of my projects things didn't turn out quite as intended but no regrets. Although it is quite a heavy bike I think it is the drag that is discouraging (I did significantly lower belt tension as you have mentioned and that was a noticeable plus) 2 things I love about the bike are other than tires there is close to zero maintenance/cleaning which is great in NE US Winters-when who cares about speed! Also it is THE rail trail machine w 2.3” tires. I do have another frame soon to be in the works that will be derailleur but braze ons for Rohloff cables and chain stay joint for belt. Experimenting is so much fun! Thanks for your review and channel.👋
I'd love to know the set-up of this bike. One dream bike of mine would be a "do-all" bike in Ti with a low-maintenance drivetrain. Something I can run errands on, or take on long bike packing rides. An all-weather machine.
I’m not torn between a Rohloff and Pinion, I’m torn between a Rohloff and derailer…thanks to this video I know that derailer is the way to go, I wasn’t aware that Rohloff hubs are less suited for mountain riding.
Imagine you combine a Rohloff with a Pinion P18 in one bike, you will have 252 gears with 3000% range :D
Ok now you just dropped me an insane idea
Someone did it already btw...
@@ersonvelasco2531 where?
@@deenster ruclips.net/video/e-ig-R65yHg/видео.html
@@deenster but not P18
WoW !!! Amazing! This gentleman really knows his stuff. And he made his comparisons very clear and precise.
He also reccomended what would be the best gearbox for your particular appication and needs. Nice! And interesting as well. 🤔
I didn't even know gearboxes for bicycles existed. Cool !!! 😎
Thank you! Great video. I would go with the Rohloff.. I like the ability to change it on different bikes!
I have been contemplating to get a bike with one of these system. In my head, I am also adding about 3lbs for a heavy duty kryptonite U-lock to protect these expensive bikes.
I got a TiGr titanium lock a few years ago after seeing a friend's example and I would get another. Impressively tough and much lighter than comparable U-locks. Worth checking out (no affiliation, I just like them and they aren't well-known)
I have been using the NuVinci harmony on my electric bike for a year now, love it fully automatic and no hassle
NuVinci is fine and easy (continuous) gearbox for an E-bike.
But it is a very inefficient gearbox for pedal power alone (if I remember correctly, the efficeincy is only around 80 to 85%).
@@wimahlers Perfect for a mid drive based ebike. I too have a nuvinci and you don't notice the inefficiency Vs something else. Whereas the continuously variable slide up/down the gearing ratios is simply sublime.
@@biggityboggityboo8775
I concur. A NuVinci gearbox is very nice for E-bikes.
There is another option. I use a Shimano Alfine hub, mounted on the bike frame as a gearbox. The crank drives the hub, the hub drives the rear wheel through a second chain. This gives me the advantages of the hub-shift system, and still lets me use off-the-shelf wheels, so I can easily replace the rear if it gets damaged. I could retro-fit a Pinion gearbox to a standard frame, but the high cost of the Pinion, with little in the way of potential gains for a commuter bike means that it does't seem worthwhile.
I recently purchased a Smart Motion E Bike with a Rohloff hub , so far after 1400 km I have no problems and rather than change the oil in the hub I'll take my bike back to the dealer for Specialist service , I also had a shock absorbing front fork fitted and the results and assed comfort were immediate !
I think price is also missing the point that you can actually get a rohloff hub as a single part new for ~1000 Euro for retrofitting. Even more important, you can get them used for half of that - With their legendary durability even a really old one is probably fine.
Maybe, maybe not.
I don't think Rohloff supports aftermarket wheel builds anymore. If it isn't built by them they won't warranty it
@@MrJonas2255 Rohloff don't build wheels and they give their hub a 2 year warranty. Bike manufacturers build the hub into their rim of choice.
Legendary durability is just the German marketing machine in full swing. If it is that great, why not offer a looooong warranty. (Same for German cars, BTW).
@@johnp6404 fact is hardly any product is supported by more than two years warranty...
Making your statement irrelevant.
Beautiful job! Fairly compared. All factors considered.
Glad you liked it!
Great work, very informative, well presented.
very interesting analysis, thanks! I am not considering buying a gearbox by now, but in case sometime I do, your video will be of great help. I stumbled upon this video after googling for pinion, which I saw it is being mounted in some bikes of my bike dealer (who was already offering rohloff and shimano).
I think maybe the weight discussion is more nuanced. For full sus mtb, moving weight from the rear wheel to the frame greatly increases suspension performance, which would make the extra weight of the pinion actually a bonus over the rohloff
I think a hub free rear wheel makes the point. So less mass and friction when the rear wheel is rolling.
Thank you for taking the time to make this video
really very sound report on a high level not often to be found.appriciated it
I hope you enjoyed my analysis! 💎 Soooo, which gearbox do you think wins this battle? 🤔🤔🤔
What about kindernay? Looks very promising.
I'm looking forward to seeing the data come out on the Kindernay. I'll hopefully be able to test one too!
I'm partial to the Rohloff. I am looking for a 29er that can receive 3" tires and has a Gates drive system. Any recommendations you might care to share? Thanks :-)
@@felipericketts I think the Salsa Fargo ticks all those boxes. But it's a drop bar MTB (a plus in my book but certainly not for everyone). A Rohloff Fargo is in my personal dream bike shortlist.
Really good content, mate. I have never ridden either system, but am thinking of going Rohloff on a Vivente. Interested to know about shifting under load with both systems. Any difference? (Memories of ancient 3 speed Sturmey-Archers haha).
Also, would like to donate, but not so keen on the patreon system. Is a paypal regular payment possible? If so, are there advantages or disadvantages for you, PayPal vs Patreon?
Excellent analysis ! Thanks for sharing !
Thanks men... i was looking for some comparison anywhere... now i got it, thanks ;)
Titanium bike with Rohloff hub is my dream bike
Salsa Fargo with Ti frame with Rohloff and Gates belt drive
Love my pinion 😊
For me it's also clear: Pinion no question about it! :D
Wonderful - balanced, detailed, fair analysis and comparison. Thank-you. Subscribed and looking forward to seeing more of your content. Disclaimer: I've never ridden either the Rohloff or the Pinion and in fact I had never heard of the Pinion before seeing your video. I'm a 10-year Alfine-11 rider considering a new bike with the Rohloff and you have helped me affirm that decision. Cheers.
Thank you very much!
alas! last week ordered a rohloff complete with 20" disc-brake wheelset upgrade for my Brompton M6L! waiting for borders to open up so i could travel with my travoy trailer as well lol
Very interesting. I feel that each of these comparison points need a weight, though. I would rate efficiency 10 times more important than the other qualities.
Yeah, well, he makes that point several times, particularly in the conclusion.
He CANNOT give the comparison points assigned weighting, because he is not you. Or me; I would rate maintenance 10x more important than all else, because I'm a lazy MF. 😉
Intro music and opening shot...........well played sir, well played. Love the channel, recent new sub.
Welcome aboard!
The ability to swap wheels more readily was a factor for me on my new bike, which can take either 27,5"+ or 29". Though admittedly the price difference is so high one might just have bought another Rohloff hub ;-) I guess I just love the tech. I've wanted it since I saw it.
Danke für den Vergleich. Sehr gut recherchiert!
Mate, you should definitely start a school education for bike mechanics all over the world. How you say it, your speed, how you build things up and explain.... It's just perfect! I would go with the Rohloff due to price, efficiency and the fact that the pros of the Pinion doesn't really matter to me. I am currently running a Shimano Nexus 7 so ... :)
I'm glad you like my content! This channel kind of is a school for people who want to know the super technical side of bikes. 😎
@@Cyclingabout Yes! A true geek site. Wish I could find you book here in Sweden also. Got any tips?
At that price they should come with a complimentary bike lol
It is cheaper to buy a bike with one already installed!!!
Consider with a lifespan of 200,000km or way further and never having been worn out in rohloffs history also only an oil change once a year there are also over 250 parts excluding individual bearings inside one of these tiny machines that are as genius as a car engine.
A lot of man hours and design processing. It's way superior to chain even if slower. We're reaching a stage in technology where a bicycle is actually more reliable than a car. If something goes on my bike I don't need the AA to pick it up or a mechanic anymore. I never pay labour costs anymore I do it all through tutorials on RUclips
If rohloff cost 3 times as much they probably could still justify it when something lasts indefinitely there is no price on peace of mind and reliability
It really is the most complicated thing like pinion or kindernays XIV which is 14 speed removable from wheel and hydraulic unlike rohloff for same price. I believe kindernay will beat rohloff its new also.
Everyone needs a rohloff in my experience or at least Alfine. Beats sturmey. Nexus is easy to work on but won't take you everywhere
LOL
Great video! I've got a Shimano alfine 11spd hub+gates belt bike (Avanti Inc 3)... Been great but next is pinion for me for sure. 9 or 12spd I think, don't need 18 for my needs. Probably hard tail MTB ish bike, that would be a do everything bike for me
Excellent. Thanks for sharing your experience.
sounds like the rohloff hub is definitely the better option for road cycling/touring while pinion gearboxes may be a better choice for mountain biking where it requires more versatility and better unsprung weight (minus the lack of aftermarket lever shifters but that will probably come in future)
You got it!
Nice comparison, but it would benefit greatly from you calculating and displaying the relative gear inches next to the gear range speed and cadence slide @ 1:31- then anyone can understand how that compares to their regular gear and chain drives :)
Upgrading my mid drive ebike with a Rohloff would be a really nice project. Thanks for the comparison.
Thanks so much for another great video, Allee. A bit nerdy, but that’s us right? I would love to see the comparison with the C1.12 Pinion. It’s much cheaper and apparently the preferred choice here in Germany
I did a lot of research on this like you did on this video. My conclusion was different. Swappability, Price, Weight made me choose for the chain instead of Rohloff/Pinion. I ride with my trekking bike on asphalt and gravel. Chain is fine for me.
There is nothing wrong with chain shifting and it is still the most efficient and lightest system. The main disadvantage is maintenance. You can run both system with a belt and that's what cuts it for me. This system reduces normal maintenance to nearly zero because hosing down the dirt isn't really that much of a hassle.
I use also conventional derailleur systems on my bikes, with 8 and 9 speed cassettes. I get between 5 and 7k km out of a Shimano HG 71, and the spare parts are inexpensive at 8 and 9 speed systems. I do not travel the world with my bikes, I use it for commuting and sports, together around 7k km per year. Only the Rohloff hub alone would cost more than any of my bikes costed completely - it's surely a nice hub, but it's expensive, and the main advantage (to use it with a belt) needs a special frame with an opening, which non of my bikes has, so the belt would not be an option for my already existing bikes.
Chains need maintenance, but it's not too much.
That's not the point of this video! Read the description again!
@@simonm1447 Derailleur chain transmission is a real PITA to maintain hence the need for IHG and belts. Your argument against them is purely on price. You've ignored their design superiority. If you are able to afford them they are far far far better than a derailleur transmission.
You seem to be confused between gearboxes and the means of transmitting the power. Chain/belt transmits the power, the gearbox selects the gear ratio. Clue is in the name. You can use either chain or belt with either the Rohloff or Pinion gearboxes.
I’m not a mountain biker and I like eBikes with rear hub motors - so that’d only leave a Pinion gear box (until there are more rear hub motors with integrated gear boxes!). In any case super interesting video, thanks!
Great analysis, thx, i miss an overview of the results at the end
Having 4 Rohloffs, and one P.18 in my household, it is easy: The Rohloff is easier to maintain (getting the old oil out of the Pinion is tedious), lighter, easier to fit to pre-existing frames, and has a MUCH better efficacy. If the heavy hub is an issue, e.g. in a fully - I went for 1x12. Haven't sold the P.18 yet, but thank you for the reminder... (oh, and, yes, my oldest Rohloff was built in 2000, and still doing well, with minimal maintenance - don't know how long the Pinion will last, but the creaky feeling I get when pushing hard does not feel promising...)
Have you sold your P.18 yet?
Having the weight at the bottom bracket negates some of that penalty for the Pinion. You mentioned this in the mountain bike section, but I'm not sure that weight is a clear win for the Rohloff for this reason.
conbeaute weight on a touring bike must be a secondary issue. Touring cyclists could be carrying 3+kg of water alone.
I MTB bike and weight is never an issue like it is with roadies
@@derekthompson4561 Just keep telling it to yourself until you get overtaken by a guy running with his road-bike on the shoulder.
Great video. Also loved the “negotiating narrow trails” at 8:10
Thank you for sharing. I am keen on the Rohloff for my gravel drop bar bike...
Exceptional work as always Alee. Jesse here from the bike shop in Port Alberni, BC Canada.
I have witnessed very recently a touring cyclist with a Rohloff failure. Not catastrophic failure, but a very concerning 'skipping' under load. Not wanting to stop and wait for an indeterminate amount of time to get it fixed, he opted to swap out his wheel for an 11spd XT rear wheel and keep going. Likely the instance of failure on a pinion systems are rare, but in the event of failure your options would be very limited.
Thank you for your efforts Mr. Denham.
Have you reviewed the NuVinci ?
I am not a bike guy but love the mechanical education of your video. That was great!
Thanks! Maybe you'll become a bike guy if you stick around long enough. 😎
Well presented video - very useful information. Thanks !
Glad it was helpful!
Hmm. I'm still using 3 and 5 speed Sturmey Archers.
With a kickback shift.
Glad I'm not the only one! The Sturmey-Archer AW 3-speed is also a marvellous piece of engineering, I know because I've disassembled and rebuilt mine. And it beats the Pinion and Rohloff hollow on one feature - cost!
Both are very impressive engineering, but for me, on a limited income, it seems an awful lot of money just to change gear, which my Shimano derailleur does very well, thank you very mucj, and I am able to repair it fairly easily if it does fail. Having said that, Mark Beaumont rode around the world with a Rohloff, so they must be pretty reliable. Thanks for the video.
I don't have a lot of money either. Let's remember that the pros in the tour de France use derailleurs!
That said, I am saving and I might make a once-in-a-lifetime purchase of a high quality touring bike with a rohloff or a pinion. I've thought about this for years (maybe a decade) and I have some inheritance money that I might use for this.
@@TheGeeoffThe pros of the TdF use derailleurs that are much more expensive than a Rohloff or Pinion.
Well done! I am staying with my XTR bike for now.
A nice comparison of the two! I actually retrofitted a fatbike and an old maverick mountain bike to both use Rohloff hubs for purely mountain biking. I'd got about 3000 miles on the Fatbike over 7 years and about 1000 miles on the Maverick over 3 years. I know these are laughable numbers for anyone touring, but I am more of a weekend-warrior mountain biker and nearly all those miles are on mostly rough trails across all 4 seasons of the northern midwest US
The only I've only 1 problem across both bikes; a noticeable oil leak on the fatbike when I got some fishing line tangled up in the rear cog area. I sent out the wheel for a seal change that took about 9 days and and 50 bucks. Other than that these hubs have been absolutely flawless. I wouldn't take any derailleur over them ever.
I like the pinion gearboxes more but I don't want to have to worry about getting a custom frame for the gear box. Like with the maverick; it was easy enough to get a custom wheel built with a rohloff for it and Viola! A 12 year old bike feels like a new cutting edge bike again!
Anyway, great video with lots of little angles to consider when deciding between the two!
I hope these will catch on and the prices will fall waay down. Sadly too expensive for most as they are now
Prices won't fall "waay down" as these are highly engineered gearboxes.
You could run an Alfine 8 with a front derailer for complete gear range. The Alfine 8 is silent and tough enough for mountain biking. I have never had one fail.
karrppu, very true about the cost (I'm poor) as they always say, You get what you pay for.
As a poor kid I found the Sturmey Archer hub gearbox more reliable than a derailer set up that never seemed to work properly.
A very thorough and fair assessment. thank you.
Glad it was helpful!
I appreciate the quality of the video and the content. At this point neither gearbox suits me at their price points, maybe in the future if prices come down a bit.
Wow the prices are insane.
You get what you pay....
because of minimal losses due to friction, rohloff is my choice