Thank you Dan, for the in-depth and complete explanation of this Rohloff Speed hub! A masterpiece of bicycle hub-level design and engineering that has proven itself fully in the field. One day hope to be able to see and visualize every acceleration step in a follow-up video. Thanks again👌👍
Great explanation and very articulate with precise terms. It would be nice if you discussed the need to minimize input torque when shifting as excessive torque can prevent or slow a shift operation; and in some cases, it may cause the Rohloff to skip several ratios or skip to a higher ratio: for example, shifting from 7 to 8 under high torque might cause the hub to fall momentarily into 11 or 14. These issues are completely eliminated when the shift operation is timed for when the rider has their cranks in the vertical position (applies minimal/zero input torque). For single riders, it is easy to time the shift. For tandem riders, it is more difficult. Food for thought it you ever decide to add to your video or produce a separate video focusing on this aspect. Thanks.
What a tiny mechanical "wonder"! I've been driving Rohloff for about 10 years and shifting with it is simply fun because it happens so quickly and intuitively. In addition, the robustness, a really great development. Thank you for the clear explanations!
Thank you so much for this video and the insane amount of effort you put into it, specially with all your CAD models and motion analysis. Really enjoyed it!
You have to bare in mind, that all the big companies didn't manage to develop anything similar to the Speedhub. That makes it even more impressive, that Rohloff did it in around 1996 as a small company!
as usual one bright mind can change the world and make new inventions for which humanity would have taken a few decades more maybe if it wasn't for him/her/them...
The best inventions are not made by the profit seekers (they most times are inhibited by those people, look at Tesla and J.P.Morgan), but by smart people with a need or a drive for advancement. Or by public funds like the iPhone
@@ainsmas361 you can drive whats you love, i love my electric shimano hub. But for travelling arround the World, a rohloff is like a must have. Install and forgett ( only oil changes need)
Wenn da nicht dieser Öl Verlust wäre...... Ich habe 3 mal Dichtungen gewechselt, es hat nicht geklappt danach habe ich sie in die Firma geschickt, hat auch nicht geklappt.... Diese Schaltung ist absoluter Schrott!!!
I agree he's not explaining this vary well, and it's not because the rest of us are dumb, it's because often engineers have the technical knowledge but not communicative skills
Darin Johnson What are you talking about? This is not a consumer video. This is for someone who wants to understand the detailed engineering behind the Rohloff. It is delivered in impressively concise language. It assumes that if you don’t know what, for example, an “actuator” is, that you’ll go find out and come back to continue the lesson.
I'm very amateur, but a very cogent and lucid tutorial with great precision and a command of words and skill as a teacher, and a mechanical engineer in your own right. It is great to go through this even though it's over my head ha! With my poor learning curve I like to, with a thanks to you, at least somewhat envision what is going on so that once I finally purchase a Reise and Muller I can appreciate the world class technology.
Thanks for taking the time and making the effort to explain this technical marvel to the internet :) At first perception, it sounds like competent techno-babble to match Star Trek - but this is for real. Amazing.
Full and complete explanation, thank you. Now hoping someone with the skills makes an animation video of how each gear step drives the hub, as I find it difficult to visualise the process.
Pretty sweet video and hub. I have gotten more sceptic about German engineering lately because my young vw car is dead after a long list of problems. But it is not the same company and I hear great things about Rohloff
I ran a VW Golf for a while it may have done 200 or 300 thousand miles. The engines don't go that long, and the electrics are awful but the gearbox was lovely smooth and quiet. I thought when I have sat or drove newer cars - chuck the new gearbox out and put that nice quality gearbox in and the car would become half-decent.
Thanks for a great explanation of the Rohloff Speedhub Dan. I already have one fitted to my Thorn bike and although it's been reliable, I much prefer riding my derailleur geared bikes. The Rohloff hub feels heavy, it feels gritty, and it also feels slow as if it's filled with treacle. The internal resistance when freewheeling is enough to push my legs round and the twistgrip gear changer takes a lot of effort to operate. I also ride a Shimano 5 speed hub geared bike which in comparison to the Rohloff is an absolute pleasure to ride.
WHOA! Just checked pricing for these little mechanical marvels. The Shimano looks to be more in my budget range. Thanks for the excellent presentation(s) - I've watched a few of your videos - and don't let the trolls get you down. I'm a handcyclist looking to build my own trike, where something like this IGH would simplify chain tensioning/routing and improve longevity/service life. I've got dirty nails, more often than not - life in a wheelchair. Keep up the good vids.
Could you do a video on how you plan to setup your trike? When you say you will build one, does that mean you or a third party? Will your trike be front wheel drive?
Hi - I plan on a rear wheel drive design with two wheels up front, modeled (somewhat) after the Ti Trike. I'm also looking into creating a leaning/tilt suspension, to assist with maneuverability and stability, specifically in high speed turns. Not sure if both a lean and a tilt can be combined (I'm thinking stability, once again). With front wheel drive handcycles you have two factors that limit both maneuverability and stability. As you lean back in a FWD unit (such as the Lightening I have), stability decreases the further you lean back on the trailing wheels (ask me how I know - scars). Maneuverability isn't too bad with the Lightening, as it uses a leaning kind of steering, but with both a lean and a tilt built in you would (theoretically) greatly improve maneuverability. My first inclination is to create a universal joint attachment where the frame Ts to provide the ability to lean into your turn, but I've checked out some tilt suspension designs that I like as well. First, I need to have my nephew clear his stuff out of my garage/workshop. LOL
Hi Dan, you asked for suggestions on future videos and I've got one for you. It's based on a Tractor Transmission that I saw rebuilt on RUclips. It's an 18 Speed Powershift Transmission out of a John Deere 9320T. It would be awesome to see one of those Transmission's explained the way you explained the Rohloff. Thanks Dan, take care!
Thanks Dan, you are a clever man. One of my favourite features of the speedhub is that the indexing mechanism is contained in the hub and not the shifter. As I understand it, this makes it virtually impossible to ride the hub out of ideal adjustment in the same way that one might do so over time with a Shimano or SA geared hub. I think this would be an excellent feature on the cheaper and lower-gear-range IGHs as it would make them even lower maintenance for the average user. I have wondered if this is a feature that Rohloff has patented and for that reason we won't see it on any other IGH unless they were to bring out a a lower range model themselves. That said, I believe the Pinion gearboxes are also internally indexed. I have always wondered what the axle unit and indexing mechanism looks like inside the speedhub. It would be great if you could make a video on that.
Thank you so much for this video. I wish there would be an equally good explanation of the Pinion drive I'm using. Have a great day every one and take care :)
You did an incredible job in analyzing the mechanics of this gear box, and even more to present it in an understandable way. This project must have costed you several weeks if not months. Still I wonder if this transmission is to be preferred over the 2 front / 7 rear derailleur mechanism. The latter is lighter, runs with less resistance and is an order of magnitude easier to service.
Ok, that is clever. The tinkering to get the ratios as evenly spread as possible would have been a fun exercise and it's easy to imagine lots and lots of trial variations to experience the differences in the real world. It is now obvious why these things demand the price they do.
Is the "right" 03:37 7 step stage similar to the Shimano nexus sg7? Since the Shimano it is totally different to a Sachs S7. And to me it seams like the Shimano 7 speed Nexus also consist out if two stages.
Hey Dan Burkhart I have a short question . Are there any bearings in the outer caps in the Rohloff ? If so what size are they ? Would it possible to change these bearings with hybr. deep ceramic balls/steel bearings and Non Contact Rubber Seal , example from Enduro ? Martinius Berg
The outer bearings are 61807. They are fitted with the seals removed so the oil from the hub keeps the bearings lubed. An outer seal is fitted in the shell to keep the oil in.
Great overview... in your experience, what internal elements of the Rohloff SH are most vulnerable to normal wear and tear? In other words, what would need to be replaced first? I just bought a vintage (over 20 years old) bike with a Rohloff SH. It has the older (pre-2011) shifter mechanism, but I don't know it's use history. It seems to function well. The oil change did not reveal any particulate matter or discoloration.
In my opinion, the parts most vulnerable to damage or wear would be the locking pawls that couple the sun gears to the axle. The best way to extend the life of these elements is to break torque input when shifting .In other words, ease up on the pedals.
True. If you have knowledge about how a transmission or gearbox operates it isn’t complicated to understand but if you don’t it could be difficult to follow.
Hello Dan and thanks for such a great video. I have a Grin Tech Stoke Monkey mid-drive motor on my trike which has re-generation breaking. Is it possible to lock the Rohloff from freewheeling so as to continue to use re-gen. I have asked Rohloff a few times and not got a response. Thank You.
No, I don't think that would be possible. The clutches are a ratcheting type, and even if they were not, the sun gears would still ratchet over the locking pawls.
When discussing 5th gear you mentioned that the initial compound ratio was 1 to .881, however the actual ratio is 1 to 1.135. Otherwise a great video but I wanted to point this out so it doesn’t confuse anyone.
Since they have electronic shifting, do they have a system that works with the movement of the drivetrain to charge the battery system or at least keep it charged up so you don't lose gears if the battery was to go dead?
The electronic Rohloff shifter comes with Bosch systems (and I think some Shimano ones now), and the controller will maintain a reserve of battery power for the shifter after cutting off the pedal assistance. If the battery goes completely dead (which you shouldn't do because it's not good for the battery), you're stuck with the gear you're in.
Great job explaining it. I wish they would move this gearing solution from the hub to the actual bike (pedals). This way the weight is more centered to the bike and you can have a stronger back wheel. However I do appreciate this technology because it allows me to install it on any bike. In your opinion which one is better : Rohloff or Shimano?
I was going to mention Pinion, they have gear hub mounted at pedals but that requires specialised frame to support it and Pinion is even more expensive than Rollhoff :)
Hi Steven. Thank you for your comment. I tried to reply to your other message but the system wouldn't let me.. The Rohloff would be overkill anyway if you are not riding hills unless you are planning loaded touring. Sram has announced they are exiting the IGH market entirely later this year, so I would not recommend it as an option. Parts support for Sram hubs has been pretty much non existent in North America anyway, so it's never been a good choice. I really like the Shimano Alfine 8 speed although some riders are aggravated by the uneven ratio steps. I find it a very robust and smooth operating hub. If you want to avoid gear steps altogether, you could go with the Nuvinci CV hub. The model numbers denote the ratio range, 360% or 380%. That puts the 380 just short of the 409% range of a Alfine 11 speed. I do not have a Nuvinci myself, but I do know people who have them, and they like them a lot. Also have not heard of any failures with this hub.
The Rohloff is an heirloom product. Less expensive in the long run. It will outlast every bike you put it on. It will outlast you. Leave it to your next of kin.
Is there a video for rebuilding the 3 speed hub gear of the Mercedes Smart Bike EB001? There's nothing wrong with the bike except the that the cog to the belt drive slips and does not drive the wheel. The printed manual has nothing about the HUB mechanism.
The control is a rotary shifter with two cables. It pulls the shift mech in both directions, there is no spring return. I hope I understood your question.
The only thing that confuses me now, is how to set the gearing to the optimal position for the maintenance of the gears. Meaning the gear set of 3 and 5. How is that accomplished?
These don’t require pedaling to shift - they can shift between gears at a standstill. You just twist the shifter to the appropriate gear, that’s all there is to it.
That would be where two rotating members are coupled together with positive engagement rather than a freewheel ratcheting mechanism or a friction clutch.
Sure, if you feel you need more than 526% ratio range. Some recumbent trikes paired the Rohloff with a Schlumf 2 speed crank for a mega range drive train.
The standard chain tensioner from Rohloff can work with chainring differences up to 10. I ride it with two chainrings 52 and 60 on my hp scorpion recumbent trike and it works really well.
JULIUS SINKALA it is a bit depending on the type of outer finish and which axle is used but here in Europe it is approx. 1100 Euro including VAT. Plus shifter and cables for sure. But it need service only every 6000 miles and I personally know people which where traveling the world on bikes with a Rohloff which hab no problems during 35000 miles of ride. Since I am not riding so much the price always kept me from buying one. Fun fact the Rohloff is the only hub drive which can be combined with stronger Ebike mid drive motors (above 50 Nm of torque).
Will this work on my Organic Transit ELF with the extra long shift cable run? I have a serious problem with sloppy shifting and gear grinding due to the long cable run for my 8 speed hub, even after upgrading to high end teflon coated cable. Also, does the Rohloff axle accommodate a rear disk brake AND still have room for the freewheel of my motor drive on the port side?
There would be no way to mount a freewheel on the non drive side without some extreme engineering. The axle plate and shift mechanism would be pretty much impossible to work around.
Extreme engineering? Only a sufficient axle length is required. Hundreds have been built in this way by two different solar/human powered hybrid companies. They place it next to the disk brake to attain dual chain rear hub drive. But the quality of Shimano or Sturmey Archer 8 speed hubs is not so great for precision shifting with an extra long shift cable run.
Are you talking about using the hub as a mid drive, or in a wheel? I'm guessing you have not seen one of these up close, and I will stand by what I said about the extreme engineering required to fit a freewheel around the axle plate and shift mechanism. I did not say impossible, and if you are able to accomplish it, I would be very interested to see how you do it.
I can see a way to do it with a fixed cog if you can build the freewheeling mechanism into the drive unit. Machine a flange to sit outboard of the disc rotor (using the same mounting bolts) far enough to allow chain clearance and mount a cog to it. Note that the rotor bolts and the hub cap bolts will be subjected to shear stresses that were not designed into the unit.
Do you list the efficiency of these geared hubs? Generally, internal geared hubs are less efficient than that of external cogs. This information would help to qualify a geared hub product.
There has been studies and tests done on various gearhubs to compare their efficiency to derailleur systems. I don't have the time to look it up right now, but Rohloff has a reference to one such test on their site.
@@2wagondragon I've read that Rohloff is one of the best. Next down comes any of thin oiled Sturmey-Archer (British made) hubs. Clean derailleur are comparable to SA. Then the greased gears and bearings are at the bottom.
Stock shifter is mechanical, with two cables in a pull/pull configuration. There is an aftermarket shift unit out there which I have only read about, never actually seen.
@@2wagondragon The Co-Motion twist shifter is a superior option for drop bars, I put one of those on my Vaya and it's far better than the stock Rohloff shifter that can only install on bar ends. Super smooth, solid aluminum, and mounts all the way up the bars on the fatter clamping surface right past the taper. It has hollow cable channels for the brake lines to neatly pass right beneath it. Bit pricey, but then again if spending 1500 on the hub, what does a little more for a really nice shifter matter lol
It is a 14-speed, but it actuall only has 7 gears. The first 7 speeds are on a gear reducer. The reducer is what makes noise. The hub is quiet in the top 7 speeds. The noise doesn't mean it is junk. They have been producing that hub since 1998. Not a Hub has failed, yet.
I have not experienced this hub I have a lovely smooth quiet Sturmey-Archer FW. The freewheel pawls are not over-driven in some speeds but are disengaged. Although both have straight cut gears, although they are quiet in the FW, straight cut gears do whine and lose power. This is why helical gears are used if practical they do not suffer velocity modulation as the driving gear tooth slides up the pushed gear tooth.
@@AndrewLohmannKent Filled the hub with 25cl oil instead of the 15cl recommended. The noise/raunch sound disappeared! There is no leaking of the hub and the gears inside works well.
@@normand5847 funny, I just read a comment on another YT channel saying he went through 3 Rohloffs. "No failures" is a bit of a stretch. Now I understand this hub is tandem rated and has a great history with high-torque off road tandem use. That's an excellent test. However, "no failures" of pretty much anything is a very high hurdle indeed. Google it and you'll quickly disabuse yourself of this notion. ruclips.net/video/-4OmG8T7Uec/видео.html thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=12265.0 I should add that the hub's large flange diameter can be problematic with certain wheel builds, causing spoke angle issues at the rim. Frequent spoke failure can result. Again, not without some issues.
Hi Nicolas. I will try to do one some time, but I have too much going on right now to get into that. Could you be specific about the problem you're having? Might be able to throw some ideas out.
He was showing them how to take out the engine so they can put the new one in and now they know so they can do it themselves no problem and they have it on video so that everyone can see how to take one out and put one back in
I have owned lots of German goods and they seem to be on the practical side while the quality is so so. I believe the Swiss deserve the title of master of precision mechanisms. If they make a rohloff version of IGH I will buy one.
Which is superior the Rohloff or pinion option - the reason I ask is I am thinking of getting a gravel/tourer bike with one of these options and am attracted by the low maintenance and durability.
That will depend on the ERD (Effective Rim Diameter) of the rim.being used. 26" rims vary greatly in this measurement. Standard wheel building stuff. Most online spoke length calculators will have the dimensional data for Rohloff hubs. They will also most likely have the manufacturers published ERD for your rim if it's a common one. That said, I never rely on published data as I have often found it unreliable. I measure and calculate with parts in hand.
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What amazes me is the brain of the inventor. Awesome video
Not one inventor. There's a team of them
Thank you Dan, for the in-depth and complete explanation of this Rohloff Speed hub! A masterpiece of bicycle hub-level design and engineering that has proven itself fully in the field. One day hope to be able to see and visualize every acceleration step in a follow-up video. Thanks again👌👍
Great explanation and very articulate with precise terms. It would be nice if you discussed the need to minimize input torque when shifting as excessive torque can prevent or slow a shift operation; and in some cases, it may cause the Rohloff to skip several ratios or skip to a higher ratio: for example, shifting from 7 to 8 under high torque might cause the hub to fall momentarily into 11 or 14. These issues are completely eliminated when the shift operation is timed for when the rider has their cranks in the vertical position (applies minimal/zero input torque). For single riders, it is easy to time the shift. For tandem riders, it is more difficult. Food for thought it you ever decide to add to your video or produce a separate video focusing on this aspect. Thanks.
What a tiny mechanical "wonder"! I've been driving Rohloff for about 10 years and shifting with it is simply fun because it happens so quickly and intuitively. In addition, the robustness, a really great development. Thank you for the clear explanations!
So precise, beyond what i retain, however, thank you! Bike lifers such as myself will appreciate this info! Best regards. Really awesome
Thank you so much for this video and the insane amount of effort you put into it, specially with all your CAD models and motion analysis. Really enjoyed it!
Thank you for this video! Greetings from Germany!
You have to bare in mind, that all the big companies didn't manage to develop anything similar to the Speedhub. That makes it even more impressive, that Rohloff did it in around 1996 as a small company!
as usual one bright mind can change the world and make new inventions for which humanity would have taken a few decades more maybe if it wasn't for him/her/them...
The best inventions are not made by the profit seekers (they most times are inhibited by those people, look at Tesla and J.P.Morgan), but by smart people with a need or a drive for advancement. Or by public funds like the iPhone
Way way too complicated, too heavy, too expensive.
A simple derailleur kept clean and free of damage is much better
@@ainsmas361 you can drive whats you love, i love my electric shimano hub.
But for travelling arround the World, a rohloff is like a must have.
Install and forgett ( only oil changes need)
Wenn da nicht dieser Öl Verlust wäre......
Ich habe 3 mal Dichtungen gewechselt, es hat nicht geklappt danach habe ich sie in die Firma geschickt, hat auch nicht geklappt....
Diese Schaltung ist absoluter Schrott!!!
Very well done! Informative, professional, top-notch. This explanation helps to tame this otherwise daunting piece of machinery. Thanks Dan!
Guess I have to watch it another 5 times until I finally understand. But definitely not your fault. Great video!
I agree he's not explaining this vary well, and it's not because the rest of us are dumb, it's because often engineers have the technical knowledge but not communicative skills
Yep, I'm way too dumb for this shit! I'm just gonna have a Rohloff Speedhub and no real idea of how it does what it does!
Darin Johnson What are you talking about? This is not a consumer video. This is for someone who wants to understand the detailed engineering behind the Rohloff. It is delivered in impressively concise language. It assumes that if you don’t know what, for example, an “actuator” is, that you’ll go find out and come back to continue the lesson.
You and me....brilliant engineering
its actually quite a simple explanation, really. you go: ooh eeh ooh aahh ahh, ting tang, walla-walla bing-bang
Impressive video for an impressive technology. Thanks for making it!
Thanks for the comment.
You were able to break down to its most elementary function in your demonstration and explanation. Good Job.
Thank you for the comment.
I'm very amateur, but a very cogent and lucid tutorial with great precision and a command of words and skill as a teacher, and a mechanical engineer in your own right. It is great to go through this even though it's over my head ha! With my poor learning curve I like to, with a thanks to you, at least somewhat envision what is going on so that once I finally purchase a Reise and Muller I can appreciate the world class technology.
Thanks for taking the time and making the effort to explain this technical marvel to the internet :) At first perception, it sounds like competent techno-babble to match Star Trek - but this is for real. Amazing.
Full and complete explanation, thank you. Now hoping someone with the skills makes an animation video of how each gear step drives the hub, as I find it difficult to visualise the process.
Exactly. The explanation is pretty good but the visualization is serious lacking.
Pretty sweet video and hub. I have gotten more sceptic about German engineering lately because my young vw car is dead after a long list of problems. But it is not the same company and I hear great things about Rohloff
I ran a VW Golf for a while it may have done 200 or 300 thousand miles. The engines don't go that long, and the electrics are awful but the gearbox was lovely smooth and quiet. I thought when I have sat or drove newer cars - chuck the new gearbox out and put that nice quality gearbox in and the car would become half-decent.
Since my ebike is my only source of transportation. This hub should be a practical investment.
Excellent Dan and still current info. Thankyou for the explanation
Thanks for a great explanation of the Rohloff Speedhub Dan. I already have one fitted to my Thorn bike and although it's been reliable, I much prefer riding my derailleur geared bikes. The Rohloff hub feels heavy, it feels gritty, and it also feels slow as if it's filled with treacle. The internal resistance when freewheeling is enough to push my legs round and the twistgrip gear changer takes a lot of effort to operate. I also ride a Shimano 5 speed hub geared bike which in comparison to the Rohloff is an absolute pleasure to ride.
Impressively concise. Many thanks.
OMG that is a complex mechanism that you've explained.
WHOA! Just checked pricing for these little mechanical marvels. The Shimano looks to be more in my budget range. Thanks for the excellent presentation(s) - I've watched a few of your videos - and don't let the trolls get you down. I'm a handcyclist looking to build my own trike, where something like this IGH would simplify chain tensioning/routing and improve longevity/service life. I've got dirty nails, more often than not - life in a wheelchair. Keep up the good vids.
Thank you so much for the comment. Internal hubs are very well suited to hand powered machines. Good luck with your build.
Could you do a video on how you plan to setup your trike? When you say you will build one, does that mean you or a third party? Will your trike be front wheel drive?
Hi - I plan on a rear wheel drive design with two wheels up front, modeled (somewhat) after the Ti Trike. I'm also looking into creating a leaning/tilt suspension, to assist with maneuverability and stability, specifically in high speed turns. Not sure if both a lean and a tilt can be combined (I'm thinking stability, once again). With front wheel drive handcycles you have two factors that limit both maneuverability and stability. As you lean back in a FWD unit (such as the Lightening I have), stability decreases the further you lean back on the trailing wheels (ask me how I know - scars). Maneuverability isn't too bad with the Lightening, as it uses a leaning kind of steering, but with both a lean and a tilt built in you would (theoretically) greatly improve maneuverability. My first inclination is to create a universal joint attachment where the frame Ts to provide the ability to lean into your turn, but I've checked out some tilt suspension designs that I like as well. First, I need to have my nephew clear his stuff out of my garage/workshop. LOL
Hi Dan, you asked for suggestions on future videos and I've got one for you. It's based on a Tractor Transmission that I saw rebuilt on RUclips. It's an 18 Speed Powershift Transmission out of a John Deere 9320T. It would be awesome to see one of those Transmission's explained the way you explained the Rohloff.
Thanks Dan, take care!
Hi Dan
Thanks for your very instructive video
I wonder what part of the mechanism makes the Rohloff able to shift at full torque?
Urban
Thanks Dan, you are a clever man.
One of my favourite features of the speedhub is that the indexing mechanism is contained in the hub and not the shifter. As I understand it, this makes it virtually impossible to ride the hub out of ideal adjustment in the same way that one might do so over time with a Shimano or SA geared hub. I think this would be an excellent feature on the cheaper and lower-gear-range IGHs as it would make them even lower maintenance for the average user. I have wondered if this is a feature that Rohloff has patented and for that reason we won't see it on any other IGH unless they were to bring out a a lower range model themselves. That said, I believe the Pinion gearboxes are also internally indexed.
I have always wondered what the axle unit and indexing mechanism looks like inside the speedhub. It would be great if you could make a video on that.
Not going to pretend I understood this but makes me appreciate my Roloff when I'm out riding!
Wonderful video, excellent. Great job
How come I've only seen this madness wow I need one 😍
great job as usual Dan
Holy mackerel. Who ever thought bikes would get this sophisticated.
Regardless no bicycle shop is going to repair this hub .they will pull and replace or send it back to the factory to be rebuilt or replaced
Germans dont see any fun at easy stuff, take that for granted. What an amazing achievement, I am stunned
Thank you so much for this video. I wish there would be an equally good explanation of the Pinion drive I'm using.
Have a great day every one and take care :)
Excellent video, thank you.
Excellent closed design gearbox
20years, 35,000km so far and no problems so far, German enginering at is finest
Great video, thank you!
Grat explanation!
You did an incredible job in analyzing the mechanics of this gear box, and even more to present it in an understandable way. This project must have costed you several weeks if not months. Still I wonder if this transmission is to be preferred over the 2 front / 7 rear derailleur mechanism. The latter is lighter, runs with less resistance and is an order of magnitude easier to service.
Ok, that is clever. The tinkering to get the ratios as evenly spread as possible would have been a fun exercise and it's easy to imagine lots and lots of trial variations to experience the differences in the real world. It is now obvious why these things demand the price they do.
Awesome video!
Insanely good video
Can the centre pinion drive be mounted on a regular bike fraim.
How do you lubricate the gear hub and what oil/ grease do you use?
Is the "right" 03:37 7 step stage similar to the Shimano nexus sg7? Since the Shimano it is totally different to a Sachs S7. And to me it seams like the Shimano 7 speed Nexus also consist out if two stages.
Great. Thanks. This is something novel for me.
Hello, Dan Burkhal or someone ... where can I find the manual of it? Please
Hey Dan Burkhart
I have a short question . Are there any bearings in the outer caps in the Rohloff ? If so what size are they ? Would it possible to change these bearings with hybr. deep ceramic balls/steel bearings and Non Contact Rubber Seal , example from Enduro ?
Martinius Berg
The outer bearings are 61807. They are fitted with the seals removed so the oil from the hub keeps the bearings lubed. An outer seal is fitted in the shell to keep the oil in.
Great overview... in your experience, what internal elements of the Rohloff SH are most vulnerable to normal wear and tear? In other words, what would need to be replaced first? I just bought a vintage (over 20 years old) bike with a Rohloff SH. It has the older
(pre-2011) shifter mechanism, but I don't know it's use history. It seems to function well.
The oil change did not reveal any particulate matter or discoloration.
In my opinion, the parts most vulnerable to damage or wear would be the locking pawls that couple the sun gears to the axle. The best way to extend the life of these elements is to break torque input when shifting .In other words, ease up on the pedals.
Dan. Thanks for the advice. Was your disassembly for instructional purposes only... or did you have to effect a repair/replacement?
@@alandaugustine8519 It was for demonstration purposes only
One universal truth. No one can understand the workings of planatery gears by listening to someone explaining it.
True. If you have knowledge about how a transmission or gearbox operates it isn’t complicated to understand but if you don’t it could be difficult to follow.
Hello Dan and thanks for such a great video. I have a Grin Tech Stoke Monkey mid-drive motor on my trike which has re-generation breaking. Is it possible to lock the Rohloff from freewheeling so as to continue to use re-gen. I have asked Rohloff a few times and not got a response. Thank You.
No, I don't think that would be possible. The clutches are a ratcheting type, and even if they were not, the sun gears would still ratchet over the locking pawls.
When discussing 5th gear you mentioned that the initial compound ratio was 1 to .881, however the actual ratio is 1 to 1.135. Otherwise a great video but I wanted to point this out so it doesn’t confuse anyone.
1 / .881 = 1.135
Are these commonly available in Australia?
cool video, thanks!
That is one sweet hub
Maybe this man is a genius ?🤔 Thank you for this outstanding video !
Since they have electronic shifting, do they have a system that works with the movement of the drivetrain to charge the battery system or at least keep it charged up so you don't lose gears if the battery was to go dead?
The electronic Rohloff shifter comes with Bosch systems (and I think some Shimano ones now), and the controller will maintain a reserve of battery power for the shifter after cutting off the pedal assistance. If the battery goes completely dead (which you shouldn't do because it's not good for the battery), you're stuck with the gear you're in.
Nice vid. Greets from Russia )
Great job explaining it. I wish they would move this gearing solution from the hub to the actual bike (pedals). This way the weight is more centered to the bike and you can have a stronger back wheel. However I do appreciate this technology because it allows me to install it on any bike. In your opinion which one is better : Rohloff or Shimano?
nacra60na check out the pinion gearbox, I think that's what you're referring to.
@Phil Weatherley I'm waiting to see how this pans out.
www.veercycle.com/
I was going to mention Pinion, they have gear hub mounted at pedals but that requires specialised frame to support it and Pinion is even more expensive than Rollhoff :)
Excellent video, what would be your first choice for an IGH one step down from the Rohloff ?
Hi Steven.
Thank you for your comment.
I tried to reply to your other message but the system wouldn't let me..
The Rohloff would be overkill anyway if you are not riding hills unless you are planning loaded touring.
Sram has announced they are exiting the IGH market entirely later this year, so I would not recommend it as an option. Parts support for Sram hubs has been pretty much non existent in North America anyway, so it's never been a good choice.
I really like the Shimano Alfine 8 speed although some riders are aggravated by the uneven ratio steps. I find it a very robust and smooth operating hub.
If you want to avoid gear steps altogether, you could go with the Nuvinci CV hub. The model numbers denote the ratio range, 360% or 380%. That puts the 380 just short of the 409% range of a Alfine 11 speed.
I do not have a Nuvinci myself, but I do know people who have them, and they like them a lot. Also have not heard of any failures with this hub.
The Rohloff is an heirloom product. Less expensive in the long run. It will outlast every bike you put it on. It will outlast you. Leave it to your next of kin.
Thank you !
What is the weight? Does it support Brompton bike?
@Dan Burkhart Can it be changed to a belt pinion?
Now THIS is how you explain a mechanical part.
So I suppose more frictional losses with this hub than a standard derailleur set up?
Is there a video for rebuilding the 3 speed hub gear of the Mercedes Smart Bike EB001? There's nothing wrong with the bike except the that the cog to the belt drive slips and does not drive the wheel. The printed manual has nothing about the HUB mechanism.
MASHAALLAH khub valo video
Has this product evolved since this 2017 review?
Thank you! :-)
I got a migrane after trying to understand this !!! Need to understand before buying a Birdy Rolloff !
How are the physical movements from one gear to another made?
The control is a rotary shifter with two cables. It pulls the shift mech in both directions, there is no spring return.
I hope I understood your question.
Magic.
The only thing that confuses me now, is how to set the gearing to the optimal position for the maintenance of the gears.
Meaning the gear set of 3 and 5. How is that accomplished?
Regularly move through out the gear range, just like a car. Even if that means on a stand while you turn the pedal by hand.
These don’t require pedaling to shift - they can shift between gears at a standstill. You just twist the shifter to the appropriate gear, that’s all there is to it.
What is Positive Coupling Mechanism? Please explain in more detail. Thanks.
That would be where two rotating members are coupled together with positive engagement rather than a freewheel ratcheting mechanism or a friction clutch.
Now am I right to assume that we can use a front gear changer to have more gear options?
Sure, if you feel you need more than 526% ratio range. Some recumbent trikes paired the Rohloff with a Schlumf 2 speed crank for a mega range drive train.
The standard chain tensioner from Rohloff can work with chainring differences up to 10. I ride it with two chainrings 52 and 60 on my hp scorpion recumbent trike and it works really well.
What is the power loss going through this gear system?
Here is the data as published on Rohloff's web site. www.rohloff.de/en/experience/technology-in-detail/mechanical-efficiency/
A good video, i love it. How much does this hub cost.
JULIUS SINKALA it is a bit depending on the type of outer finish and which axle is used but here in Europe it is approx. 1100 Euro including VAT. Plus shifter and cables for sure. But it need service only every 6000 miles and I personally know people which where traveling the world on bikes with a Rohloff which hab no problems during 35000 miles of ride. Since I am not riding so much the price always kept me from buying one.
Fun fact the Rohloff is the only hub drive which can be combined with stronger Ebike mid drive motors (above 50 Nm of torque).
Will this work on my Organic Transit ELF with the extra long shift cable run? I have a serious problem with sloppy shifting and gear grinding due to the long cable run for my 8 speed hub, even after upgrading to high end teflon coated cable. Also, does the Rohloff axle accommodate a rear disk brake AND still have room for the freewheel of my motor drive on the port side?
There would be no way to mount a freewheel on the non drive side without some extreme engineering. The axle plate and shift mechanism would be pretty much impossible to work around.
Extreme engineering? Only a sufficient axle length is required. Hundreds have been built in this way by two different solar/human powered hybrid companies. They place it next to the disk brake to attain dual chain rear hub drive. But the quality of Shimano or Sturmey Archer 8 speed hubs is not so great for precision shifting with an extra long shift cable run.
Are you talking about using the hub as a mid drive, or in a wheel? I'm guessing you have not seen one of these up close, and I will stand by what I said about the extreme engineering required to fit a freewheel around the axle plate and shift mechanism.
I did not say impossible, and if you are able to accomplish it, I would be very interested to see how you do it.
Hub. Accommodating this application would open up a market for the human/solar powered velos.
I can see a way to do it with a fixed cog if you can build the freewheeling mechanism into the drive unit. Machine a flange to sit outboard of the disc rotor (using the same mounting bolts) far enough to allow chain clearance and mount a cog to it. Note that the rotor bolts and the hub cap bolts will be subjected to shear stresses that were not designed into the unit.
Do you list the efficiency of these geared hubs? Generally, internal geared hubs are less efficient than that of external cogs. This information would help to qualify a geared hub product.
There has been studies and tests done on various gearhubs to compare their efficiency to derailleur systems. I don't have the time to look it up right now, but Rohloff has a reference to one such test on their site.
@@2wagondragon I've read that Rohloff is one of the best. Next down comes any of thin oiled Sturmey-Archer (British made) hubs. Clean derailleur are comparable to SA. Then the greased gears and bearings are at the bottom.
What makes it change gears? computer + motor, cable, mechanical torque sensor?
Stock shifter is mechanical, with two cables in a pull/pull configuration. There is an aftermarket shift unit out there which I have only read about, never actually seen.
@@2wagondragon The Co-Motion twist shifter is a superior option for drop bars, I put one of those on my Vaya and it's far better than the stock Rohloff shifter that can only install on bar ends. Super smooth, solid aluminum, and mounts all the way up the bars on the fatter clamping surface right past the taper. It has hollow cable channels for the brake lines to neatly pass right beneath it. Bit pricey, but then again if spending 1500 on the hub, what does a little more for a really nice shifter matter lol
after you try inner hub gears you don"t want to go back to cassette gears. soo smooth and efficient and problem free
I'd like to try one of these with a center drive E-Bike...I bet that would be interesting
chemicallust77 I'm saving up for one to use with my bafang mid-drive.
That hub is an option on a Luna Cycle Bafang mid-drive bike.
Great job explaining thanks
I would take a class by you on tiddlywinks - on a subject I have no business watching - you made it both interesting and educational.
Now I wait for the Kindernay XIV!
Hey again Dan
What is the reason that some of the gears make some noise even the new hub is filled with Rohloff made oil ?
M.B.
It is a 14-speed, but it actuall only has 7 gears. The first 7 speeds are on a gear reducer. The reducer is what makes noise. The hub is quiet in the top 7 speeds. The noise doesn't mean it is junk. They have been producing that hub since 1998. Not a Hub has failed, yet.
I have not experienced this hub I have a lovely smooth quiet Sturmey-Archer FW. The freewheel pawls are not over-driven in some speeds but are disengaged. Although both have straight cut gears, although they are quiet in the FW, straight cut gears do whine and lose power. This is why helical gears are used if practical they do not suffer velocity modulation as the driving gear tooth slides up the pushed gear tooth.
@@AndrewLohmannKent Filled the hub with 25cl oil instead of the 15cl recommended. The noise/raunch sound disappeared! There is no leaking of the hub and the gears inside works well.
@@normand5847 funny, I just read a comment on another YT channel saying he went through 3 Rohloffs. "No failures" is a bit of a stretch. Now I understand this hub is tandem rated and has a great history with high-torque off road tandem use. That's an excellent test. However, "no failures" of pretty much anything is a very high hurdle indeed.
Google it and you'll quickly disabuse yourself of this notion.
ruclips.net/video/-4OmG8T7Uec/видео.html
thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=12265.0
I should add that the hub's large flange diameter can be problematic with certain wheel builds, causing spoke angle issues at the rim. Frequent spoke failure can result. Again, not without some issues.
Woow very impressive! Thank you! Who invented this anyway? It's rocket science!
Who do you think? The name is on the product. It's actually not rocket science as rockets tend to have no gears at all.
@@SuperDirk1965 Their gears are interplanetary, lol.
What price list ,saled shop where
Hi, I'm having trouble rebuilding my rholoff hub, could you do a rholoff rebuild video?
Hi Nicolas.
I will try to do one some time, but I have too much going on right now to get into that.
Could you be specific about the problem you're having? Might be able to throw some ideas out.
I think something is wrong with one of the springs that actuates the clutch mechanisims on the central axxle
Looks like it could have been invented by the same people who gave the world Enigma. Impressive, want it on my next bike.
Gears more like Babbage's Difference engine
It is tough to let go of that kind of money , I did and am glad I did.
He was showing them how to take out the engine so they can put the new one in and now they know so they can do it themselves no problem and they have it on video so that everyone can see how to take one out and put one back in
Thanks
I have owned lots of German goods and they seem to be on the practical side while the quality is so so. I believe the Swiss deserve the title of master of precision mechanisms. If they make a rohloff version of IGH I will buy one.
schlump drive crank. gear box
Let us know when you hear about the latest great swiss drivetrain system.
Great 👍🏽
Which is superior the Rohloff or pinion option - the reason I ask is I am thinking of getting a gravel/tourer bike with one of these options and am attracted by the low maintenance and durability.
I notice that these hubs are being sold as 32h and 36h hole. What does this mean?
That is the spoke hole count. It was originally available as a 32 hole only, but this was deemed inadequate for heavy duty use such as tandems.
@@2wagondragonAh, okay. So what spoke size should I buy for a 26" recumbent trike wheel laced 2x?
That will depend on the ERD (Effective Rim Diameter) of the rim.being used. 26" rims vary greatly in this measurement. Standard wheel building stuff.
Most online spoke length calculators will have the dimensional data for Rohloff hubs. They will also most likely have the manufacturers published ERD for your rim if it's a common one.
That said, I never rely on published data as I have often found it unreliable. I measure and calculate with parts in hand.
I'll remember it next time before changing gears every second.
Good
Thumbs up. m8. Namasté
Mechanical magic
This made me feel like the Bekfest kid.
how to make the video more understandable ? use animation starting with the input gear and follow the path of power transfer from gear to gear.