The future of gearboxes is looking bright! ☀ Which bike brand would you like to see using the new Pinion C1.12i gearbox? I also have a lot more videos on bicycle gearboxes and belt drivetrains for you to watch! 🤌🏻 🧡 5 New Bicycle Gearbox Drivetrains 2023 --- ruclips.net/video/pyeMBKJLtWI/видео.html 🖤 Shimano Alfine internal gear hubs --- ruclips.net/video/qf9tFJFXV5o/видео.html 💜 Enviolo CVT internal gear hubs --- ruclips.net/video/3jZkTlDfK8E/видео.html ❤ Rohloff hub vs Pinion gearbox --- ruclips.net/video/W_hx4V9mYuw/видео.html 💛 Belts are now BETTER than chains --- ruclips.net/video/PhXTl7gApVA/видео.html 💙 Effigear Mimic gearbox --- ruclips.net/video/F08bDBK7U7A/видео.html 💜 Chainless shaft drive bicycles --- ruclips.net/video/eimLIkJaNFM/видео.html 💚 Chainless digital drive bicycles --- ruclips.net/video/r-Zyp6jX0HM/видео.html
They should put some better computer controller to calculate wats and according to it change gears automatically swiftly and smoothly, this is good adjustment for long distance accommodation of ride and reduce needles power impute in trying to get some speed, because slowly changing cadence can do the same with much less power needed, but because windy conditions can occur suddenly controller can feel this change in power and smoothly downshift and then adjust proper proportion between cadence and power, and all this smoothly which enables smooth and consistent pedaling which reduce effort. This would be real game changer.
Since I am disabled I ride a recumbent tadpole style - it would be nice to see something come out with this since derailleurs are the #2 thing I smash after idler pulleys. It gets expensive fast.
The fact that this thing works well with drops too is _really_ good. Now we just need to wait for more manufacturers to use it. I'd buy a decent touring bike with drops with this and a belt, although I would like it to be more like £3000 than £5000 which what I found with a VSK bike (and they don't do drops).
Its a killer product if you look at it from a long time investment thing. Costs more but will not need any more chains, cassettes, and derailleurs when broken or worn
@@TheSoppakulhofor most peoples a standard transmission is perfectly fine and needs zero maintainance. After 30 years mostly in the garage and few thousand kilometres they throw the whole bike because everything start to fall apart: brakes, shifting, noisy and skipping chain, saddle... This is the life of probably 90% of the bikes. Moreover, most of the bikes people use cost about 1/10 of this transmission. So this transmission is for a very small niche and will remain so unless its cost is devided by about 100, which I think will never happen.
Good on pinion for their innovation! Would be nice if they stepped up on their website and listed current manufacturers c/w bike style eg hard tail , xc , gravel etc
Pinion seems to be an excellent choice for many riders, but prices need to come down as production numbers go up. They need more competition. As always, your presentation is stellar 🌟.
It’s hard for niche products like this to compete on price against a widespread and mature tech like derailleurs. It would probably take a very large manufacturer (read: only Shimano or SRAM) making a huge bet on it and essentially subsidizing it to grab market share, except it would be at the expense of cannibalizing their own sales.
I need i friend from Europe to buy me a pinion gearbox. I am from Russia. I talked to a russian bike conpany "rapid" manufacturing bike from titan, and they said that pinions no longer imported due to sanctions. They said i need friends in Europe to buy pinion. Sad, but i don't have any friends in Europe .
One thing not mentioned is that once you've cashed out for a Pinion bike, having multiple front AND rear wheels is a minor extra cost, and switching between them is a 2 minute job. Useful for summer and winter wheelsets, or offroad and road ones. I'd be doing this if I ever got such a bike.
If running tubes, and expect few yearly wheel swaps, changing tires is smarter. A few minutes more, but no big deal. It's a good chance for maintenance. Now for trail vs road use, I see your point. Not much different than a derailleur bike though, since belt sprockets aren't cheap.
@@seitenryu6844 Yes, but belt sprockets are far cheaper than a decent IHG, which is the only alternative in my case. Swapping tyres is a much bigger hassle than just swapping wheels - how much depends on particular tyre/rim combos, but it's far more work. When spring arrives in february, but winter suddenly returns in march - with tyre swaps, I'd generally wait until april, to make sure I only do two swaps per year. With wheelsets, I'd swap more often, and get a safer and more comfortable ride, and maybe some cost saving eventually on less wear of the expensive studded winter tyres. To each their etc...
Outstanding video!! Surprised Priority is one who had progressed and at the same time elated that a Korean pinion bicycle is on its way. Many options and loving them all! Thank you to the bearer of good news Mr. Durham.
It will never be the same as the pinnion...I got two touring bike with Rholoff Speedhubs and a bike with the Shimano equivalent....the Shimano is a shadow of of the Roholoff...same will be here....
@@truth-Hurts375 Thats like saying bmw 325i is shadow of bugatti veyron. Shimano alfine is 150€ Rohloff is 1160€. With almost 10x price I would hope it is almost 10x better. Shimano sells millions of hubs, Rohloff sells like 100 a year
Thank you so much to bring this great development on the table. I was always interested in a bike with pinion gearbox, now this is for me the point where i cant really resist. Absolutely stocked by the new shifting options. Just waiting for an good eMTB with Pionion gearbox 😊 Thank you once again for ypur video, love it ❤
I have had a Pinion gearbox on my recumbent trike for over three years now. It's been very reliably and I have made full use of the 12-speed...an electronic shifting option would be even better, IMO.
Re the SCRAM Pinion, at EU5099, the pinion is LOOOOOOONG way from "killing" derailleur tech. The other 3 flatbar bikes are all equally expensive. Nice to dream, but my tourer/commuter cost me AU$550 plus about AU250 worth of self installed upgrades. It's 8 years old and only just feels like it could use a new ring, chain and cassette. It's done Melbourne to Sydney, Melbourne half way to Adelaide and the sort of commuting around Melbourne, even most serious cyclists tend to give most of to the car. (I don't drive. At all.) The Pinion system needs to come down to Shimano or even MicroSHIFT prices and get some sort of general compatibility with British bottom bracket frames before it will "kill" derailleurs. Like I say, nice to dream, but mere mortals are "stuck" with Tulio's brilliance for a while yet. Besides, I love servicing my own bike - can't do that anywhere near as easily with a gearbox bike.
@@spdcrzy I honestly don't know what serious service you need for deraileur. I commute 250Km a week. All I have to do is re-lube the chain once a week. That two minute job. Once a month I spend 30 min cleaning the bike, check tire pressure and brakes. Yearly expenses for tire, brake wear, chain, cassette, cables, etc is €150. That is €150 for 10,000Km. I own this bike since 2009. Still using the same original rear deraileur and shifter. Even with Pinion gear box, you still have the same cost of tire and brake wear and service. Sure you can say I have a full time job and three kids. 2 minutes a week is way too much to spend on lubing a chain. Or I'm a high paying lawyer making €1000 an hour. Spending 2 minutes to work on the bike is not worth it.
@@spektrumB Agreed. Folks trying to hype up gearboxes tend to exaggerate the maintenance needed to keep a chain and derailleur in working order. For most people, it's minimal.
Those TRP shifters look so nice, and the Pilot is a sweet looking ride. I have a Priority 600HXT on order. The electronic shifting and thumb shifter tipped the balance for me. I think Priority has done an excellent job of speccing this bike and making it relatively affordable. The next few years should see a good number of manufacturers adopting gear boxes with these new innovations and I'm sure more on the way. I briefly had a Priority 600X and did not like the twist shift and the super short reach geometry felt weird. I'm hoping the 600HXT is comfortable for long days of pedaling so I can use it double duty as a shredder and a bikepacking bike.
@@srileo We'll see. I'm somewhat familiar with the geometry as Ive had full suspension bikes with similar numbers and it is great for long days riding trails. I'm not sure how it will feel for long days, say 6 hours of rough but non technical riding. I'd like to do the 1000km bikepacking loop in Kenya and I think with the right cockpit setup it'll be sweet.
Amazing content, again! If I did more loaded touring per year, a gravel bike with this system would be a no brainer for me. Spare belt though, never want to see a group split up again because of a broken belt with no replacement around.
I love the idea of new technologies and innovations. . However as much as I would love to have a pinion equipped bike it costs more than my last 2 bikes cost together and now has electronics and a battery! Im not a complete retrogrouch but this is a step in the wrong direction for me. I love bicycles for their simplicity. I don't want something else to charge.
Should be easy for Pinion to engineer a little dynamo inside the gearbox unit that charge the electric shifting mechanism. Or better yet, connect it to a USB outlet to charge lights and GPS tracker. Yes, it would decrease the efficiency of an already innefficient drivetrain system. I think that is a compromise that some people are willing to take.
My Priority 600X with the grip shift Pinion was stolen about a month ago. My insurance company covered the loss and I'm replacing it with the 600HXT with the electronic shifting. I'll let you know what I think. Looking forward to more news from your bikepacking in Africa! All the best to you and Laura, Ron
Anyone remember the GT IT-1 from late 2005/early 2006 ? I got to demo one at a race in Fontana, CA. and loved it ! 8 speed gearbox with twist shifter - always wondered why it never took off - great to see dialed gearbox bikes finally getting to market … awesome ! 🍻
Great commentary, again, Alee. Agreed that more folks will feel comfortable with the new changes, but seriously, shifting on the current models and with a grip shifter has been absolutely no problem for me the past couple of years.
really cool to see you've been tracking the allto gearbox too. i'm pretty hype for a cheap gearbox, and the guy's youtube videos on the development have been very fun to watch.
Grip shifters are/were awful. I had one in the early MTB days with a SRAM shifter. Still not for me. But looks promising with electronic shifters. And having more options is always good. And thank you for making this video. Nice to see content from you, again. An updated video about flat bar gravel bikes would be nice 🙂
i totally get why some people like the electronic trigger shifing and it def has some advantages and its right to exist, but i would have loved to see a mechanichal trigger option with a no battery in the system, please do it denkendorf
That wouldn't help, the trigger doesn't consume the battery, it's the sensors in the system itself. As long as these aren't e-bikes it would still need an external charge
There is a company that has developed triggers for Pinion mechanical gearboxes, but they are exclusive to their bikes. So it's obviously possible, and I don't understand why Pinion insists on sticking with grip shifters.
Except... you cant use 'Brand X' gearbox on 'Brand Y' frame like you can with the nearly 99% universal fit derailleur. That is why this, while probably a better technology, will never really catch on and replace the derailleur. Never mind cost. I think the recent 'marketing push' of the pinion gearbox is interesting too.
The only hope is the bike industry settling on a universal standard for ebike motors and Pinion making gearboxes compatible with this, followed by bike companies making light frames with the same mount when they realise there are no extra tooling costs since it's already been paid for by the e-bike investment.
We just need the big boys like SRAM and Shimano to get serious about gearboxes. Introduce some competition in the marketplace. Then we'll see some real innovation.
As soon as I saw this, I could see this is the future of bikes - no more chains, no more derailleurs. Sure, Pinion isn't cheap, but neither was an iPhone when it first became available worldwide in 2009. Now nearly everyone has a smartphone - and many are a lot cheaper than Apple.
If the bike needs electronics for its core functionality, it's instantly disqualified. So the TL:DW summary is: nothing changed, you still have to use the grip shifter.
Disqualified from what? Electronic shifting is reliably used on numerous other types of bikes at all riding levels. You may not like it, but that’s your opinion.
@@LifeCycle1978 Problem is that it can't be connected to the bikes onboard generator. Now you need to take care of an extra battery. If I'd want to do this, I would ride my e-scooter.
I wouldn’t bother with this until it comes with 18s and 11.5% steps like the P1.18. I can get more range and smaller steps with my 46/30 rings and 11-40 cassette using GRX di2. Synchro shift makes it feel like. 1x. Half the price and half the weight too. Can go on any bike too. On a more positive note, I had no idea about these drop bar shifters. Thanks for the update, Alee!
The combination of electronic shifting and gearboxes is for sure the future of at least most of the ebikes. I would have expected this kind of products to be compatible with shimano or sram wireless shifters btw.
Makes sense for slow speed long distance touring and heavier MTBs and possibly E city bikes. Hopeless for road and gravel though - low efficiency, extremely low top gear, no power meter unless you run PM pedals, no oval rings if you prefer them.
As I have understood electronic shifting is mandatory for the shifting. I would be a bit hesistant to rely on electronic shifting on tours in remote places. What's your take in it Allee?
Great video, Alee. I got a regular c1.12 and am building a frame for it, gates, onyx. Will the new C1.12 e-shifter version fit the same metal cabinet used to house the box in the frame? My plan for now is to use twist shifter on a 22.2 bar end mount placed at the tops of my dropbar, or fit it on 22.2 aero bars. But if I later upgraded to the e-shift pinion, that would be a huge improvement with a trigger shift rig.
As far as I know the mount of a C1.12 and a C1.12i are the same, so you could swap them out. However the box internals are very different, so you need to do a full box swap. (I'm in the same position for my Nicolai GAM, but I might just order a new frame around that new box.) An Onyx hub in combination with Pinion is a great combo btw, it is the least amount of non engagement you can get. :) (The pinion can have, at times, a reasonable large engagement gap, so you can use all the help there.) :) Another plus is that this will be a total silent ride. :) Enjoy!
Two years ago, I bought a pair of Priority 600 bikes, for myself and wife. I really like the Pinion 12spd. Even though it has it's 'quirks'. The twist shifter is clunky, but functional. I'm excited to hear Pinion is upping their game, with both electronic and mechanical options. However, for the type of cycling we do, I find the gearing a bit too low. Most of my riding is in the 7th-12th range. I only have to 'go low' when tackling an extreme grade. Rarely, and I mean rarely, am I ever in need of 1st gear. And at that point in the climb, I'm going so slow, I worry about losing balance. My 'dream bike' would be a full suspension road/gravel bike, Pinion gearbox, and drops. Titanium frame, carbon fiber wheels, and 30ish mm tires. 10-12 kilos weight, if possible, would be great.
Me encanta cómo avanza el mercado de estos mecanismos. No estoy ni cerca de comprarlos porque yo uso gamas bajas en ciclismo, pero espero que en un futuro esta tecnología se masifique y llegue a todos los mercados. La magia de una bicicleta sin prácticamente mantenimiento es increíble.
Would love to see a tandem with this gearbox. There is a company that offers them already, however, for an unknown (at least to me) reason their implementation requires three belts.
I'm trying to work out how it could use 3 belts - unless it was a 3 seater or the gearbox was mounted separate to both riders' cranks for no reason i can think of...
@@peglor assuming this is about the co-motion pinions, weird layout either because the pinion's design prohibits having both cranks and 2 belts attached to gearbox because its not meant for tandems so they have to treat it the same way as gearing on trikes or because they wanted the gearbox in the middle for weight distribution
@@dodecahedron1 Definitely a few good possibilities there alright. I'd be very surprised if there was no way to attach a sprocket to the left crank for the synch chain though. Usually just using a RH crank and helicoiling the pedal thread to change it to a left hand thread so the pedal won't work loose all the time does the job, but the RH crank on a Pinion gearbox doesn't have a sprocket at all, so this isn't an option, so it's down to the BB axle interface.
Will be really interesting if one of these gets put on a gravel racer... the number of drivetrain issues that knocked elite racers out of Unbound was shocking.
I've been cycling too long for the shift under load to be an issue but the move to a trigger shifter is really interesting now. Now, if only they can sort out the 12 points of engagement so I can clock the cranks on technical climbs, I'll make the switch.
I use an old hub gearbox, and yeah having to briefly back off the torque when shifting hasn't been an issue for me. I love the idea of a bb gearbox over a hub one, but the price and (in this case) the electronic complexity is a turn off.
Not to mention less/no tuning with the electronics, dropped chains, bent arms, or clogged gears in long grass! I have one gear (6th) that just won't hit on my new GX 12sp. The belt drive would probably take a pant guard nicely. Easily with $1,000 more. I think it would be kind of fun to change the oil on a rainy day, and appreciate the steampunkness of the gears. I think I'd prefer one really nice toggle switch (or dial) for shifting over two buttons. Maybe even one button on the left and one button on the right. I'd still want a mechanical brake levers with a Paul's disk setup though.
again, i thank the early adopters for making this tech for me and my fellow poor mortals to at least be able to afford them used in a few years (decade), i just want more frame manufacturers make a gearbox compatible bikes
Hi Alee - would you say the new Pinon would be a better alternative to a Rohloff/Gates combo when looking to build a world touring bike today? Is there any improvement in resistance, and wouldn't electronic shifting just add another point of failure when on the road? Thanks
There are pros and cons to both so it really depends on what you value most from your drivetrain (I made a Rohloff/Pinion comparison video a few years back). The 2024 update probably benefits mountain bikes and gravel bike the most, but I would personally have no qualms travelling with electronic shifting. That said, the prudent thing to do would be to wait a few years to see if any durability issues arise with the electronic components.
I have a simple but great idea but I'm looking for people to help realize it. The idea is to put two 11-speed (10-21) cassettes in a small box in opposed direction (close to each other). That way, the chain (15 full links, which is 378mm) is always in line with the input and output shaft, and no derailleur needed (10-21 center to center is just micrometers shorter than 15-16 center to center. This can be taken up by the normal play. I have the calculations and measurements to show that it is possible). Shifting is done with a small cage that moves between the cassettes parallel to the shafts. A bit like a normal front derailleur, except that it is holding both parts of the chain (upper and lower, the part under tension and the part that returns to the output shaft). From my 100.000+km riding indoor on Zwift, I know that chain almost don't wear if it doesn't get dirty. so if you put the chain in a box, you have the advantages of gearbox combined with derailleur. Simply put, the idea is a miniature derailleur inside a (gear)box, or a gearbox where the gears are replaced by sprockets and a chain, depending on how you see it. I've been working on this for some time now but from concept to industrialization is still a long way. Maybe people from within the industry can help me out. I have all the drawings and a buildstand to prove the concept.
Why can't Pinion make a hydraulically actuated gear shifter? The main disadvantage of electronic shifting is that you need a battery. You're screwed if you forget to charge your battery (SRAM Eagle AXS I'm looking at you). Then you will have the world's most expensive single speed bicycle. Of course the problem goes away if you have a dynamo hub on your bicycle.
You can also charge the Pinion battery with a small battery pack, which you could keep in the car or garage. If you're travelling, you probably already have one for your phone.
The main disadvantage of these new-fangled automobiles is the fuel tank. If you forget to put gas in it, you're screwed. The main disadvantage to these new-fangled cellular phones is they have a battery. If you forget to charge them, you're screwed. I'm real tired of the charging argument when it comes to electronic shifting. The dead battery fault lies with the user, not the system.
@@mtbikesam68without having tried any electronic shifter, may I provide a counter point: Phone batteries (all batteries) are notorious for losing maximum capacity over time. While I have accepted that I buy a new phone every three years or so (not necessarily due to the battery), I'm not sure if I would feel the same way about expensive bike parts. And if I happen to leave the bike in a shed through winter, or a whole year, will the battery drain over time, and I have to charge it before using the bike? And what about temperatures? Most electronic components struggle in the coldest winters or hottest summers. I'd prefer if my gearbox doesn't explode or lock up.
@@thorbear all in good fun. I have always enjoyed the tech side of the bike world, but I also have bikes with cables and rim brakes. Some cyclist luddites would scoff at a gearbox at all, claiming one gear is all you need! It's all good. I have had wireless electronic shifting on my mountain bike for almost three years now and have never had a single problem. I keep an extra battery, always stay on top of charging them and I bring the extra with me when I ride. I absolutely love riding my bike, so I have adapted myself to the needs of the electronic system. To each his own! Cheers.
Incredible upgrade for Regular short distance cyclists, but its hard for long distance tourers like us... Any idea on whether it can be implemented in P.18 line for long distance Bike touring?
excited that internal low maintenance gear boxes are gaining popularity. the electronic shifting gives me pause, however, i have just seen too much failure and nightmare struggles with endless troubleshooting. "have you tried turning off and on?" ...and ppl think self driving cars/trucks/planes are just around the corner...
Converted my Moser 1985 steel frame road bike from Campag racing triple to Shimano Alfine 11 speed gear hub with Di2 drop bar shifters, will never go back to derailleurs. The transmission is silent with no freewheel noise and a delight to ride.
I feel like this is a horses for courses thing. For mountain bikes (XC racing aside) gearboxes like Pinion really make sense, for gravel, commuting, or cycle touring they make some sense too. For cycle touring and commuting rear hub gears make a lot of sense. For racing (road, XC, gravel) the current efficiency deficit makes for derailleurs still being king. The new Pinion combined motor and gearbox for ebikes makes so much sense it's surprising it took so long to develop. If/when gearboxes can bridge the efficiency and weight gaps i think we'll start seeing them used for everything (unless the UCI goes "full we tod" and bans them from road racing).
Two questions: 1: Do the new units mount in the same mounting shell built into frames as the previous models? 2: How does the drag compare to a Rohloff hub? Any improvement over the older model Pinions?
I finally got to try out Pinion on an eBike and I was not impressed. So for paying over 7k I get a system that will send a noticeable "clunk" through my legs everytime it shifts gears under load? Yeah, no, pass... I'll be going with an Owuru CVT on my next bike, now THAT is a smooth experience. And to top it off, you can get the whole bike just for the price of the Pinion system.
At the end of the video you can go ahead and add "and rest assured, one day the shifter will stop working and you'll need to buy a new one because its electronic. While grip shift gearbox bikes silently pass you by with their beautiful gates carbon drive" or whatever. I literally paused a podcast about electronic groupsets just failing, unlike cable acuated counterparts (10 speed di2 in particular) and what the endurance of a bike really means.
So it’s time to send Tout Terrain an email telling them I’ll buy an Outback MTB from them if they fit it with this gearbox. I really don’t like gripshift and have been holding off to order. Thanks Alee for this video. Excellent work as always.
Pinion seems to have shifted their attention to ebikes, with motor-gearbox Integrated drivetrain. In that case, battery should be plenty enough as long as it is enough for motor to run. Can you cover if dynamo hubs can also charge these shifters, though?
I would like to see gearboxes in all of our bikes except my race rigs. Fortunately it evolved from square tapered to splined connection. The second best option is hub gear with grease button.
@Cyclingabout Alee, could you provide the names for the Korean gearbox and the two systems shown briefly at 9:42 and 9:47? Thanks a lot! Great video :)
We've been using chain/sprocket based drive trains on bike for 100+ yrs so it's high time for a technological revolution in that area. As much as these advances are impressive they won't really take off until the endorsements of major manufacturers and their high profile riders start happening. This next year is when I might finally make the leap to E-MTB. I'd consider a gearbox bike if the major manufacturers offered them
I've got the priority HTX600 as featured in the video. I like the gearbox, but you guys didn't address my biggest issue with it, which is the slow engagement due to the ratchet mechanism in the gearbox. If they were to replace that with something smooth an instant like Shimano had done with their e bike motors, there would be no drawbacks to the new system.
I'm excited for this, but a bit disappointed they couldn't accomplish some of this with analog techniques. I have a C1.12 on my cargo bike with a belt and I basically do nothing to it except brake adjustments. The off chance that the battery is dead leaves me reluctant to consider this.
There are already many gravel bikes with a pinion gearbox. But the shifters could certainly be better. If I'd buy a new bicycle today I'd want the new pinion gearbox. But what I have now is great. The only thing better is single speed when you don't go up hill a lot.
A Canadian compagny based in Quebec did get 80% share of Pinion in august 2022. I think that the compagny, Bombardier, was looking to place it self in a good place regarding the e-bike industrie and come out strong... I think that the made a superbe mouve...
As a Canadian, "good" typically isn't the first word we come up with when the topic of Bombardier arises. I hope this doesn't mean the watering down, bastardization or disappearance of Pinion gearboxes.
I understand that, but from what i got on info is that people at Pinion were no fool in this turover... ... You are right, stay tune for sure @@iammarkstewart
It's FREAKIN LOUD it is! Everyone who brags about this system fails to mention this. You can hear it coming from 5 miles away! No way it takes over the industry.
once gearbox drivetrains sprout a standardized power-point, so a separate combo battery/motor (think of the removable fauza motor battery on a Trek e-caliber bike) can interface with the gearbox, we'll see the final distillation of merging acoustic bikes to electric bikes. All you'd need to do to make your gearbox bike an ebike, is to add a motor/battery power unit and you have an instant ebike, which is a 30 second conversion (pop a panel, and plop one in)....we're so close.
I was seriously considering the Priority 600HXT as my next mountain bike, but I was able to buy a Trek Roscoe 9 for half the price. Unless they can get the price of gearboxes down, the tried and true chain and derailleur will always remain the most economical option.
The problem with pinion is mostly it's WEIGHT. When it comes to switching gears mechanical is the most reliable followed by hydraulic and in last place is electric or electronic which can have the most issues because of its complexity.
The future of gearboxes is looking bright! ☀ Which bike brand would you like to see using the new Pinion C1.12i gearbox?
I also have a lot more videos on bicycle gearboxes and belt drivetrains for you to watch! 🤌🏻
🧡 5 New Bicycle Gearbox Drivetrains 2023 --- ruclips.net/video/pyeMBKJLtWI/видео.html
🖤 Shimano Alfine internal gear hubs --- ruclips.net/video/qf9tFJFXV5o/видео.html
💜 Enviolo CVT internal gear hubs --- ruclips.net/video/3jZkTlDfK8E/видео.html
❤ Rohloff hub vs Pinion gearbox --- ruclips.net/video/W_hx4V9mYuw/видео.html
💛 Belts are now BETTER than chains --- ruclips.net/video/PhXTl7gApVA/видео.html
💙 Effigear Mimic gearbox --- ruclips.net/video/F08bDBK7U7A/видео.html
💜 Chainless shaft drive bicycles --- ruclips.net/video/eimLIkJaNFM/видео.html
💚 Chainless digital drive bicycles --- ruclips.net/video/r-Zyp6jX0HM/видео.html
REEB steel enduro with a Pinion looks good.
They should put some better computer controller to calculate wats and according to it change gears automatically swiftly and smoothly, this is good adjustment for long distance accommodation of ride and reduce needles power impute in trying to get some speed, because slowly changing cadence can do the same with much less power needed, but because windy conditions can occur suddenly controller can feel this change in power and smoothly downshift and then adjust proper proportion between cadence and power, and all this smoothly which enables smooth and consistent pedaling which reduce effort. This would be real game changer.
Tout Terrain!
Priority already did it, as usual.
Since I am disabled I ride a recumbent tadpole style - it would be nice to see something come out with this since derailleurs are the #2 thing I smash after idler pulleys. It gets expensive fast.
The fact that this thing works well with drops too is _really_ good. Now we just need to wait for more manufacturers to use it. I'd buy a decent touring bike with drops with this and a belt, although I would like it to be more like £3000 than £5000 which what I found with a VSK bike (and they don't do drops).
To be a "killer" of a product it needs to be in the same price bracket as that product, and it is not even in the same solar system price wise.
wise man!
lets hope they mass produces and seel it to biggest bikes brand so the price go down
Its a killer product if you look at it from a long time investment thing. Costs more but will not need any more chains, cassettes, and derailleurs when broken or worn
Only a €90 belt and €180 sprockets. Granted, after 30k KM, but still needs to be in the equation@@TheSoppakulho
@@Erdnav27 True. Gearbox is not for all riders but Im very much attracted to the maintenance free usage!
@@TheSoppakulhofor most peoples a standard transmission is perfectly fine and needs zero maintainance. After 30 years mostly in the garage and few thousand kilometres they throw the whole bike because everything start to fall apart: brakes, shifting, noisy and skipping chain, saddle... This is the life of probably 90% of the bikes. Moreover, most of the bikes people use cost about 1/10 of this transmission. So this transmission is for a very small niche and will remain so unless its cost is devided by about 100, which I think will never happen.
100% these were the TWO big factors that prevented me from going Pinion. As of now, I'm in!
Good on pinion for their innovation! Would be nice if they stepped up on their website and listed current manufacturers c/w bike style eg hard tail , xc , gravel etc
Pinion seems to be an excellent choice for many riders, but prices need to come down as production numbers go up. They need more competition.
As always, your presentation is stellar 🌟.
It’s hard for niche products like this to compete on price against a widespread and mature tech like derailleurs. It would probably take a very large manufacturer (read: only Shimano or SRAM) making a huge bet on it and essentially subsidizing it to grab market share, except it would be at the expense of cannibalizing their own sales.
I need i friend from Europe to buy me a pinion gearbox. I am from Russia. I talked to a russian bike conpany "rapid" manufacturing bike from titan, and they said that pinions no longer imported due to sanctions. They said i need friends in Europe to buy pinion. Sad, but i don't have any friends in Europe .
blame putin.@@mesnyankin89
One thing not mentioned is that once you've cashed out for a Pinion bike, having multiple front AND rear wheels is a minor extra cost, and switching between them is a 2 minute job. Useful for summer and winter wheelsets, or offroad and road ones. I'd be doing this if I ever got such a bike.
Me, as a full-year cyclist, pinion is a blessing. Maintenance free is such a time/cost saver, it's just unbelievable!!!
If running tubes, and expect few yearly wheel swaps, changing tires is smarter. A few minutes more, but no big deal. It's a good chance for maintenance. Now for trail vs road use, I see your point. Not much different than a derailleur bike though, since belt sprockets aren't cheap.
@@seitenryu6844 Yes, but belt sprockets are far cheaper than a decent IHG, which is the only alternative in my case. Swapping tyres is a much bigger hassle than just swapping wheels - how much depends on particular tyre/rim combos, but it's far more work. When spring arrives in february, but winter suddenly returns in march - with tyre swaps, I'd generally wait until april, to make sure I only do two swaps per year. With wheelsets, I'd swap more often, and get a safer and more comfortable ride, and maybe some cost saving eventually on less wear of the expensive studded winter tyres. To each their etc...
@@tvuser9529 You can order a built nexus 8 wheel for under 150 USD. A single gates cog is 100 USD.
Outstanding video!! Surprised Priority is one who had progressed and at the same time elated that a Korean pinion bicycle is on its way. Many options and loving them all! Thank you to the bearer of good news Mr. Durham.
I'm so glad to see you mentioned the Korean startup working on a gearbox. I'm so excited to see progress on that model.
It will never be the same as the pinnion...I got two touring bike with Rholoff Speedhubs and a bike with the Shimano equivalent....the Shimano is a shadow of of the Roholoff...same will be here....
Is another company. Not Shimano
@@truth-Hurts375 Thats like saying bmw 325i is shadow of bugatti veyron. Shimano alfine is 150€ Rohloff is 1160€. With almost 10x price I would hope it is almost 10x better.
Shimano sells millions of hubs, Rohloff sells like 100 a year
Thank you so much to bring this great development on the table. I was always interested in a bike with pinion gearbox, now this is for me the point where i cant really resist. Absolutely stocked by the new shifting options. Just waiting for an good eMTB with Pionion gearbox 😊 Thank you once again for ypur video, love it ❤
I have had a Pinion gearbox on my recumbent trike for over three years now. It's been very reliably and I have made full use of the 12-speed...an electronic shifting option would be even better, IMO.
Re the SCRAM Pinion, at EU5099, the pinion is LOOOOOOONG way from "killing" derailleur tech. The other 3 flatbar bikes are all equally expensive. Nice to dream, but my tourer/commuter cost me AU$550 plus about AU250 worth of self installed upgrades. It's 8 years old and only just feels like it could use a new ring, chain and cassette. It's done Melbourne to Sydney, Melbourne half way to Adelaide and the sort of commuting around Melbourne, even most serious cyclists tend to give most of to the car. (I don't drive. At all.) The Pinion system needs to come down to Shimano or even MicroSHIFT prices and get some sort of general compatibility with British bottom bracket frames before it will "kill" derailleurs. Like I say, nice to dream, but mere mortals are "stuck" with Tulio's brilliance for a while yet. Besides, I love servicing my own bike - can't do that anywhere near as easily with a gearbox bike.
Pinion gearboxes with a Gates Carbon belt drive system are essentially service-free.
@@spdcrzy The bike as a whole isn't service free. You still need to periodically check and adjust the tire pressure and brake.
@@spektrumB but compared to everything else? That's nothing. That's regular maintenance, not service. There's a difference.
@@spdcrzy I honestly don't know what serious service you need for deraileur. I commute 250Km a week. All I have to do is re-lube the chain once a week. That two minute job. Once a month I spend 30 min cleaning the bike, check tire pressure and brakes. Yearly expenses for tire, brake wear, chain, cassette, cables, etc is €150. That is €150 for 10,000Km. I own this bike since 2009. Still using the same original rear deraileur and shifter. Even with Pinion gear box, you still have the same cost of tire and brake wear and service.
Sure you can say I have a full time job and three kids. 2 minutes a week is way too much to spend on lubing a chain. Or I'm a high paying lawyer making €1000 an hour. Spending 2 minutes to work on the bike is not worth it.
@@spektrumB Agreed. Folks trying to hype up gearboxes tend to exaggerate the maintenance needed to keep a chain and derailleur in working order. For most people, it's minimal.
Those TRP shifters look so nice, and the Pilot is a sweet looking ride. I have a Priority 600HXT on order. The electronic shifting and thumb shifter tipped the balance for me. I think Priority has done an excellent job of speccing this bike and making it relatively affordable. The next few years should see a good number of manufacturers adopting gear boxes with these new innovations and I'm sure more on the way. I briefly had a Priority 600X and did not like the twist shift and the super short reach geometry felt weird. I'm hoping the 600HXT is comfortable for long days of pedaling so I can use it double duty as a shredder and a bikepacking bike.
How do you think the XHT will do on long days in the saddle?
@@srileo We'll see. I'm somewhat familiar with the geometry as Ive had full suspension bikes with similar numbers and it is great for long days riding trails. I'm not sure how it will feel for long days, say 6 hours of rough but non technical riding. I'd like to do the 1000km bikepacking loop in Kenya and I think with the right cockpit setup it'll be sweet.
Amazing content, again! If I did more loaded touring per year, a gravel bike with this system would be a no brainer for me. Spare belt though, never want to see a group split up again because of a broken belt with no replacement around.
I love the idea of new technologies and innovations. . However as much as I would love to have a pinion equipped bike it costs more than my last 2 bikes cost together and now has electronics and a battery! Im not a complete retrogrouch but this is a step in the wrong direction for me. I love bicycles for their simplicity. I don't want something else to charge.
Should be easy for Pinion to engineer a little dynamo inside the gearbox unit that charge the electric shifting mechanism. Or better yet, connect it to a USB outlet to charge lights and GPS tracker. Yes, it would decrease the efficiency of an already innefficient drivetrain system. I think that is a compromise that some people are willing to take.
I have to agree, if it’s better mechanically, keep it mechanical, don’t try to make it “even better”
There are/were mechanical versions before the electronic shifting one. And brifters are available.
My Priority 600X with the grip shift Pinion was stolen about a month ago. My insurance company covered the loss and I'm replacing it with the 600HXT with the electronic shifting. I'll let you know what I think. Looking forward to more news from your bikepacking in Africa! All the best to you and Laura, Ron
And
How is it?
You have to praise the engineers to create a gear box in such a small size and light weight. Incredible.
An excellent video and explanation, Alee! I’m excited to test that electronic shifting at some point in the future. Loving my C1.12 so much!
Nice, but as with all gearboxes cost more then a new kidney! :P Prices overall need to come down on all gearboxes.
The pinion costs more than an entire brand new Honda motorcycle
@janeblogs324 I was looking at a new Specialized Stumpjumper EVO Pro and this bike is selling for 13k now.
I have a 2022 and thought 8k was steep.
They are cheaper than the latest Shimano or SRAM group sets though.
Are they cheaper than than 2x cassettes an new chain and derailleur every year though?
A Shimano Nexus or Alfine doesn't cost all that much. There are also offerings from NuVinci and others.
I’m 2 years away from a grand cross-continental trip, still thinking about the bike - this certainly puts a Pinion gearbox top of the list.
I've done a couple of long term tours with a Pinion gearbox and I can't recommend it enough.
Anyone remember the GT IT-1 from late 2005/early 2006 ? I got to demo one at a race in Fontana, CA. and loved it ! 8 speed gearbox with twist shifter - always wondered why it never took off - great to see dialed gearbox bikes finally getting to market … awesome ! 🍻
Great commentary, again, Alee. Agreed that more folks will feel comfortable with the new changes, but seriously, shifting on the current models and with a grip shifter has been absolutely no problem for me the past couple of years.
really cool to see you've been tracking the allto gearbox too. i'm pretty hype for a cheap gearbox, and the guy's youtube videos on the development have been very fun to watch.
Good product probably. I will try to buy a prototype from him.
Grip shifters are/were awful. I had one in the early MTB days with a SRAM shifter.
Still not for me. But looks promising with electronic shifters. And having more options is always good.
And thank you for making this video. Nice to see content from you, again. An updated video about flat bar gravel bikes would be nice 🙂
i totally get why some people like the electronic trigger shifing and it def has some advantages and its right to exist, but i would have loved to see a mechanichal trigger option with a no battery in the system, please do it denkendorf
That wouldn't help, the trigger doesn't consume the battery, it's the sensors in the system itself. As long as these aren't e-bikes it would still need an external charge
There is a company that has developed triggers for Pinion mechanical gearboxes, but they are exclusive to their bikes. So it's obviously possible, and I don't understand why Pinion insists on sticking with grip shifters.
who are you calling a Denkendorf
@@Nephrak look up the town of the pinion headquaters / manufacturing site
I used to ride a bike with a Rohloff hub but got frustrated with the mushy shifting on the grip shifter. So this sounds really cool.
Bummer that's how you experienced it. A good cable setup should get you relatively crisp shifting with a Speed hub. I really liked mine when I had it.
You can get electronic shifting with shifting under load on the Rohloff as well.
great presentation of the new Pinion.
Thanks
Your videos are always well done
Many thanks!
Except... you cant use 'Brand X' gearbox on 'Brand Y' frame like you can with the nearly 99% universal fit derailleur.
That is why this, while probably a better technology, will never really catch on and replace the derailleur.
Never mind cost. I think the recent 'marketing push' of the pinion gearbox is interesting too.
The only hope is the bike industry settling on a universal standard for ebike motors and Pinion making gearboxes compatible with this, followed by bike companies making light frames with the same mount when they realise there are no extra tooling costs since it's already been paid for by the e-bike investment.
It's also less efficient than a derailleur.
Interesting to hear about competitors! So no patents? This means the space will improve quickly and prices will become a lot more accessible.
Note that only novel mechanisms are patentable, and gearboxes can be effected in different ways.
We got dropper posts and tubeless tyres which have been game changers ! Gearboxes are the new No going back option.
We just need the big boys like SRAM and Shimano to get serious about gearboxes. Introduce some competition in the marketplace. Then we'll see some real innovation.
No they are not. They are finicky just as "tubeless ready" crap tires are
Dropper posts and tubeless tires don't require custom frames, that's the problem.
As soon as I saw this, I could see this is the future of bikes - no more chains, no more derailleurs. Sure, Pinion isn't cheap, but neither was an iPhone when it first became available worldwide in 2009. Now nearly everyone has a smartphone - and many are a lot cheaper than Apple.
If the bike needs electronics for its core functionality, it's instantly disqualified. So the TL:DW summary is: nothing changed, you still have to use the grip shifter.
Disqualified from what? Electronic shifting is reliably used on numerous other types of bikes at all riding levels. You may not like it, but that’s your opinion.
I'm also not interested. But it's most likely the future.
@@LifeCycle1978 Problem is that it can't be connected to the bikes onboard generator.
Now you need to take care of an extra battery. If I'd want to do this, I would ride my e-scooter.
I wouldn’t bother with this until it comes with 18s and 11.5% steps like the P1.18. I can get more range and smaller steps with my 46/30 rings and 11-40 cassette using GRX di2. Synchro shift makes it feel like. 1x. Half the price and half the weight too. Can go on any bike too.
On a more positive note, I had no idea about these drop bar shifters. Thanks for the update, Alee!
The combination of electronic shifting and gearboxes is for sure the future of at least most of the ebikes. I would have expected this kind of products to be compatible with shimano or sram wireless shifters btw.
No it's not. It's unnecessary
Makes sense for slow speed long distance touring and heavier MTBs and possibly E city bikes. Hopeless for road and gravel though - low efficiency, extremely low top gear, no power meter unless you run PM pedals, no oval rings if you prefer them.
As I have understood electronic shifting is mandatory for the shifting. I would be a bit hesistant to rely on electronic shifting on tours in remote places. What's your take in it Allee?
This is my biggest issue. I want reliability and lack of maintenance above all else, so electronic components feels bad
I have been waiting this for years! Glad I have not purchaed any other bike.
Great video, Alee.
I got a regular c1.12 and am building a frame for it, gates, onyx.
Will the new C1.12 e-shifter version fit the same metal cabinet used to house the box in the frame?
My plan for now is to use twist shifter on a 22.2 bar end mount placed at the tops of my dropbar, or fit it on 22.2 aero bars.
But if I later upgraded to the e-shift pinion, that would be a huge improvement with a trigger shift rig.
As far as I know the mount of a C1.12 and a C1.12i are the same, so you could swap them out. However the box internals are very different, so you need to do a full box swap. (I'm in the same position for my Nicolai GAM, but I might just order a new frame around that new box.) An Onyx hub in combination with Pinion is a great combo btw, it is the least amount of non engagement you can get. :) (The pinion can have, at times, a reasonable large engagement gap, so you can use all the help there.) :) Another plus is that this will be a total silent ride. :) Enjoy!
What folding bikes will use the 2024 Pinion Gearbox. Thank you.
Excellent news - wasn‘t aware of. That is something I have definitively been waiting for!! Hurra!! Thank you 🙏
Two years ago, I bought a pair of Priority 600 bikes, for myself and wife. I really like the Pinion 12spd. Even though it has it's 'quirks'. The twist shifter is clunky, but functional. I'm excited to hear Pinion is upping their game, with both electronic and mechanical options. However, for the type of cycling we do, I find the gearing a bit too low. Most of my riding is in the 7th-12th range. I only have to 'go low' when tackling an extreme grade. Rarely, and I mean rarely, am I ever in need of 1st gear. And at that point in the climb, I'm going so slow, I worry about losing balance. My 'dream bike' would be a full suspension road/gravel bike, Pinion gearbox, and drops. Titanium frame, carbon fiber wheels, and 30ish mm tires. 10-12 kilos weight, if possible, would be great.
It is cooler, definitely...
But I still love the simplicity of a normal crank !
what's the efficiency compared to a clean derailleur/chain system?
Me encanta cómo avanza el mercado de estos mecanismos. No estoy ni cerca de comprarlos porque yo uso gamas bajas en ciclismo, pero espero que en un futuro esta tecnología se masifique y llegue a todos los mercados. La magia de una bicicleta sin prácticamente mantenimiento es increíble.
Would love to see a tandem with this gearbox.
There is a company that offers them already, however, for an unknown (at least to me) reason their implementation requires three belts.
I'm trying to work out how it could use 3 belts - unless it was a 3 seater or the gearbox was mounted separate to both riders' cranks for no reason i can think of...
@@peglor Search for Co-Motion's Java, Speedster or Mocha tandems.
@@peglor assuming this is about the co-motion pinions, weird layout either because the pinion's design prohibits having both cranks and 2 belts attached to gearbox because its not meant for tandems so they have to treat it the same way as gearing on trikes or because they wanted the gearbox in the middle for weight distribution
@@dodecahedron1 Definitely a few good possibilities there alright. I'd be very surprised if there was no way to attach a sprocket to the left crank for the synch chain though. Usually just using a RH crank and helicoiling the pedal thread to change it to a left hand thread so the pedal won't work loose all the time does the job, but the RH crank on a Pinion gearbox doesn't have a sprocket at all, so this isn't an option, so it's down to the BB axle interface.
Can a left side crank arm Stages Power Meter be used on a Pinion gearbox? Thank you
Will be really interesting if one of these gets put on a gravel racer... the number of drivetrain issues that knocked elite racers out of Unbound was shocking.
Love my pinon gear box on my priority 600x
I just found your channel and I am loving it
Great to hear!
I've been cycling too long for the shift under load to be an issue but the move to a trigger shifter is really interesting now.
Now, if only they can sort out the 12 points of engagement so I can clock the cranks on technical climbs, I'll make the switch.
I just shift under load. Lol. I just don't care.
I use an old hub gearbox, and yeah having to briefly back off the torque when shifting hasn't been an issue for me. I love the idea of a bb gearbox over a hub one, but the price and (in this case) the electronic complexity is a turn off.
So. Very. Exciting! Time to replace my ol' trusty Giant NRS from 2006!
Not to mention less/no tuning with the electronics, dropped chains, bent arms, or clogged gears in long grass! I have one gear (6th) that just won't hit on my new GX 12sp. The belt drive would probably take a pant guard nicely. Easily with $1,000 more. I think it would be kind of fun to change the oil on a rainy day, and appreciate the steampunkness of the gears.
I think I'd prefer one really nice toggle switch (or dial) for shifting over two buttons. Maybe even one button on the left and one button on the right. I'd still want a mechanical brake levers with a Paul's disk setup though.
I love grip shifters
again, i thank the early adopters for making this tech for me and my fellow poor mortals to at least be able to afford them used in a few years (decade), i just want more frame manufacturers make a gearbox compatible bikes
Hi Alee - would you say the new Pinon would be a better alternative to a Rohloff/Gates combo when looking to build a world touring bike today? Is there any improvement in resistance, and wouldn't electronic shifting just add another point of failure when on the road? Thanks
There are pros and cons to both so it really depends on what you value most from your drivetrain (I made a Rohloff/Pinion comparison video a few years back). The 2024 update probably benefits mountain bikes and gravel bike the most, but I would personally have no qualms travelling with electronic shifting. That said, the prudent thing to do would be to wait a few years to see if any durability issues arise with the electronic components.
Kamran on bike! 0:37 That guy is living legend.
I have a simple but great idea but I'm looking for people to help realize it. The idea is to put two 11-speed (10-21) cassettes in a small box in opposed direction (close to each other). That way, the chain (15 full links, which is 378mm) is always in line with the input and output shaft, and no derailleur needed (10-21 center to center is just micrometers shorter than 15-16 center to center. This can be taken up by the normal play. I have the calculations and measurements to show that it is possible). Shifting is done with a small cage that moves between the cassettes parallel to the shafts. A bit like a normal front derailleur, except that it is holding both parts of the chain (upper and lower, the part under tension and the part that returns to the output shaft). From my 100.000+km riding indoor on Zwift, I know that chain almost don't wear if it doesn't get dirty. so if you put the chain in a box, you have the advantages of gearbox combined with derailleur. Simply put, the idea is a miniature derailleur inside a (gear)box, or a gearbox where the gears are replaced by sprockets and a chain, depending on how you see it. I've been working on this for some time now but from concept to industrialization is still a long way. Maybe people from within the industry can help me out. I have all the drawings and a buildstand to prove the concept.
check the honda bicycle gearbox, same concept. other's have done similar things too.
Why can't Pinion make a hydraulically actuated gear shifter? The main disadvantage of electronic shifting is that you need a battery. You're screwed if you forget to charge your battery (SRAM Eagle AXS I'm looking at you). Then you will have the world's most expensive single speed bicycle. Of course the problem goes away if you have a dynamo hub on your bicycle.
You can also charge the Pinion battery with a small battery pack, which you could keep in the car or garage. If you're travelling, you probably already have one for your phone.
The main disadvantage of these new-fangled automobiles is the fuel tank. If you forget to put gas in it, you're screwed. The main disadvantage to these new-fangled cellular phones is they have a battery. If you forget to charge them, you're screwed. I'm real tired of the charging argument when it comes to electronic shifting. The dead battery fault lies with the user, not the system.
@@mtbikesam68without having tried any electronic shifter, may I provide a counter point:
Phone batteries (all batteries) are notorious for losing maximum capacity over time. While I have accepted that I buy a new phone every three years or so (not necessarily due to the battery), I'm not sure if I would feel the same way about expensive bike parts. And if I happen to leave the bike in a shed through winter, or a whole year, will the battery drain over time, and I have to charge it before using the bike? And what about temperatures? Most electronic components struggle in the coldest winters or hottest summers. I'd prefer if my gearbox doesn't explode or lock up.
@@thorbear how many shifts per charge was it again?
@@thorbear all in good fun. I have always enjoyed the tech side of the bike world, but I also have bikes with cables and rim brakes. Some cyclist luddites would scoff at a gearbox at all, claiming one gear is all you need! It's all good. I have had wireless electronic shifting on my mountain bike for almost three years now and have never had a single problem. I keep an extra battery, always stay on top of charging them and I bring the extra with me when I ride. I absolutely love riding my bike, so I have adapted myself to the needs of the electronic system. To each his own! Cheers.
Incredible upgrade for Regular short distance cyclists, but its hard for long distance tourers like us...
Any idea on whether it can be implemented in P.18 line for long distance Bike touring?
excited that internal low maintenance gear boxes are gaining popularity. the electronic shifting gives me pause, however, i have just seen too much failure and nightmare struggles with endless troubleshooting. "have you tried turning off and on?" ...and ppl think self driving cars/trucks/planes are just around the corner...
Converted my Moser 1985 steel frame road bike from Campag racing triple to Shimano Alfine 11 speed gear hub with Di2 drop bar shifters, will never go back to derailleurs. The transmission is silent with no freewheel noise and a delight to ride.
Amazing channel and analysis ! Subscribed.
Welcome aboard!
I hope they also release mechanical gearbox without any battery and flat bar shifter
Can’t wait for more e-bikes to have the pinion combined motor/gearbox setup.
I feel like this is a horses for courses thing.
For mountain bikes (XC racing aside) gearboxes like Pinion really make sense, for gravel, commuting, or cycle touring they make some sense too.
For cycle touring and commuting rear hub gears make a lot of sense.
For racing (road, XC, gravel) the current efficiency deficit makes for derailleurs still being king.
The new Pinion combined motor and gearbox for ebikes makes so much sense it's surprising it took so long to develop.
If/when gearboxes can bridge the efficiency and weight gaps i think we'll start seeing them used for everything (unless the UCI goes "full we tod" and bans them from road racing).
Been wanting a Zerode with belt drive hub gear box for years now...... still saving for it
Two questions: 1: Do the new units mount in the same mounting shell built into frames as the previous models? 2: How does the drag compare to a Rohloff hub? Any improvement over the older model Pinions?
1. It uses the same mounting plate.
2. No internal improvements in terms of drive efficiency.
Very cool! Now I just need a fully frame with a higher BB than most current designs :)
I finally got to try out Pinion on an eBike and I was not impressed.
So for paying over 7k I get a system that will send a noticeable "clunk" through my legs everytime it shifts gears under load? Yeah, no, pass...
I'll be going with an Owuru CVT on my next bike, now THAT is a smooth experience. And to top it off, you can get the whole bike just for the price of the Pinion system.
At the end of the video you can go ahead and add "and rest assured, one day the shifter will stop working and you'll need to buy a new one because its electronic. While grip shift gearbox bikes silently pass you by with their beautiful gates carbon drive" or whatever. I literally paused a podcast about electronic groupsets just failing, unlike cable acuated counterparts (10 speed di2 in particular) and what the endurance of a bike really means.
So it’s time to send Tout Terrain an email telling them I’ll buy an Outback MTB from them if they fit it with this gearbox. I really don’t like gripshift and have been holding off to order. Thanks Alee for this video. Excellent work as always.
Tout Terrain work pretty closely with Pinion. I'm sure they can put something together as soon as the new gearboxes are available!
Pinion seems to have shifted their attention to ebikes, with motor-gearbox Integrated drivetrain. In that case, battery should be plenty enough as long as it is enough for motor to run. Can you cover if dynamo hubs can also charge these shifters, though?
I would like to see gearboxes in all of our bikes except my race rigs. Fortunately it evolved from square tapered to splined connection. The second best option is hub gear with grease button.
“Ultra low maintenance” is a big selling point for lazy ol’ me!
For that I have 2 SA XL-FDD dyno drum brake front hubs. First one has 32,000 miles with just a bearing change. Even the cable went 20,000 miles.
@Cyclingabout
Alee, could you provide the names for the Korean gearbox and the two systems shown briefly at 9:42 and 9:47? Thanks a lot!
Great video :)
We've been using chain/sprocket based drive trains on bike for 100+ yrs so it's high time for a technological revolution in that area. As much as these advances are impressive they won't really take off until the endorsements of major manufacturers and their high profile riders start happening. This next year is when I might finally make the leap to E-MTB. I'd consider a gearbox bike if the major manufacturers offered them
I've got the priority HTX600 as featured in the video. I like the gearbox, but you guys didn't address my biggest issue with it, which is the slow engagement due to the ratchet mechanism in the gearbox. If they were to replace that with something smooth an instant like Shimano had done with their e bike motors, there would be no drawbacks to the new system.
I'm excited for this, but a bit disappointed they couldn't accomplish some of this with analog techniques. I have a C1.12 on my cargo bike with a belt and I basically do nothing to it except brake adjustments. The off chance that the battery is dead leaves me reluctant to consider this.
This on a high pivot and idler enduro bike would be a dream
There are already many gravel bikes with a pinion gearbox. But the shifters could certainly be better. If I'd buy a new bicycle today I'd want the new pinion gearbox. But what I have now is great. The only thing better is single speed when you don't go up hill a lot.
A Canadian compagny based in Quebec did get 80% share of Pinion in august 2022. I think that the compagny, Bombardier, was looking to place it self in a good place regarding the e-bike industrie and come out strong... I think that the made a superbe mouve...
As a Canadian, "good" typically isn't the first word we come up with when the topic of Bombardier arises. I hope this doesn't mean the watering down, bastardization or disappearance of Pinion gearboxes.
I understand that, but from what i got on info is that people at Pinion were no fool in this turover... ... You are right, stay tune for sure @@iammarkstewart
Electronic shifting now fully removes this option for me.
Tullio! It was a good 100 years! .2 seconds is shorter than the derailleur chain grind.
Pinion are leading but others will follow. These innovations have a lot to offer non-racing cyclists, which is most of us. Well done Pinion😊
1) Does it charge with usb-c?
2) Can you still change oil yourself?
I’m thinking that this could be an absolute game changer with a hub motor cargo bike. Hub motors could allow for regenerative breaking!
It's FREAKIN LOUD it is! Everyone who brags about this system fails to mention this. You can hear it coming from 5 miles away! No way it takes over the industry.
When i saw the price, suddenly im still happy with my Rohloff and Alfine 11. 😅 but looking forward to that day that i can finally have it.
I just met a guy with a pinion touring Europe . With 3500 km he was starting to have problems
Will I be able to fix the electronics when they break in 10 years time?
Short answer…nope
It's happened. We've finally got Bluetooth technology in our bicycle shifters. What a time to be alive! 😆
once gearbox drivetrains sprout a standardized power-point, so a separate combo battery/motor (think of the removable fauza motor battery on a Trek e-caliber bike) can interface with the gearbox, we'll see the final distillation of merging acoustic bikes to electric bikes. All you'd need to do to make your gearbox bike an ebike, is to add a motor/battery power unit and you have an instant ebike, which is a 30 second conversion (pop a panel, and plop one in)....we're so close.
Have you seen the one now that also has a mid motor working with the Pinion Gear Box? The seem to be first installed on Trail MTB's.
7:38 you mentioned the Korean startup for this gearbox, mind if you share what your source of that news was?
The All-to RUclips channel.
I was seriously considering the Priority 600HXT as my next mountain bike, but I was able to buy a Trek Roscoe 9 for half the price. Unless they can get the price of gearboxes down, the tried and true chain and derailleur will always remain the most economical option.
thanks for making a video about it. I'm following the pinion smart.shift development for a while now and I'm so ready for such a non E-Bike
I m mtbiking only in suny days so derailleurs are lighter , simpler to fix … maybe for commuting gear boxes
The problem with pinion is mostly it's WEIGHT.
When it comes to switching gears mechanical is the most reliable followed by hydraulic and in last place is electric or electronic which can have the most issues because of its complexity.
A servo motor connected to a digital switch is much less complicated than a late stage Shimano brifter
It’s a pity pinion or another manufacturer doesn’t come up with a smaller system for the Brompton ,
I thought internal gear hubs like the Sturmey Archer were quite popular on Bromptons.
@@Frostbiker I was really referring to a belt drive system and increased gears rather than the archer three internal and three external.
@@KavanOBriencheck out priority folder. Doesn't fold as nicely as Bromptons but has belt drive and decent IGH.
Much,much better without gripshift,thanks