The 2024 Pinion Gearbox Is A Derailleur KILLER - Shift Under Load, No More Gripshift!
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- Опубликовано: 12 июн 2024
- The 2024 Pinion bicycle gearbox solves two key issues with gearboxes using just one technological advancement! 📘 The Bikepacking Bike Buyer's Guide: www.cyclingabout.com/bikepack...
📕 The Touring Bicycle Buyer's Guide: www.cyclingabout.com/touring-...
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0:00 - Intro
1:13 - The 2024 Pinion Gearbox Differences
1:43 - The Problem With Grip Shifters
2:56 - Shifting Under Pedal Load
3:35 - The New Trigger Shifter
5:34 - The New Drop Bar Shifters
7:12 - What Gearbox Downsides Are Left?
9:03 - Summary 
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The future of gearboxes is looking bright! ☀ Which bike brand would you like to see using the new Pinion C1.12i gearbox?
I also have a lot more videos on bicycle gearboxes and belt drivetrains for you to watch! 🤌🏻
🧡 5 New Bicycle Gearbox Drivetrains 2023 --- ruclips.net/video/pyeMBKJLtWI/видео.html
🖤 Shimano Alfine internal gear hubs --- ruclips.net/video/qf9tFJFXV5o/видео.html
💜 Enviolo CVT internal gear hubs --- ruclips.net/video/3jZkTlDfK8E/видео.html
❤ Rohloff hub vs Pinion gearbox --- ruclips.net/video/W_hx4V9mYuw/видео.html
💛 Belts are now BETTER than chains --- ruclips.net/video/PhXTl7gApVA/видео.html
💙 Effigear Mimic gearbox --- ruclips.net/video/F08bDBK7U7A/видео.html
💜 Chainless shaft drive bicycles --- ruclips.net/video/eimLIkJaNFM/видео.html
💚 Chainless digital drive bicycles --- ruclips.net/video/r-Zyp6jX0HM/видео.html
REEB steel enduro with a Pinion looks good.
They should put some better computer controller to calculate wats and according to it change gears automatically swiftly and smoothly, this is good adjustment for long distance accommodation of ride and reduce needles power impute in trying to get some speed, because slowly changing cadence can do the same with much less power needed, but because windy conditions can occur suddenly controller can feel this change in power and smoothly downshift and then adjust proper proportion between cadence and power, and all this smoothly which enables smooth and consistent pedaling which reduce effort. This would be real game changer.
Tout Terrain!
Priority already did it, as usual.
Since I am disabled I ride a recumbent tadpole style - it would be nice to see something come out with this since derailleurs are the #2 thing I smash after idler pulleys. It gets expensive fast.
To be a "killer" of a product it needs to be in the same price bracket as that product, and it is not even in the same solar system price wise.
wise man!
lets hope they mass produces and seel it to biggest bikes brand so the price go down
Its a killer product if you look at it from a long time investment thing. Costs more but will not need any more chains, cassettes, and derailleurs when broken or worn
Only a €90 belt and €180 sprockets. Granted, after 30k KM, but still needs to be in the equation@@TheSoppakulho
@@Erdnav27 True. Gearbox is not for all riders but Im very much attracted to the maintenance free usage!
@@TheSoppakulhofor most peoples a standard transmission is perfectly fine and needs zero maintainance. After 30 years mostly in the garage and few thousand kilometres they throw the whole bike because everything start to fall apart: brakes, shifting, noisy and skipping chain, saddle... This is the life of probably 90% of the bikes. Moreover, most of the bikes people use cost about 1/10 of this transmission. So this transmission is for a very small niche and will remain so unless its cost is devided by about 100, which I think will never happen.
The fact that this thing works well with drops too is _really_ good. Now we just need to wait for more manufacturers to use it. I'd buy a decent touring bike with drops with this and a belt, although I would like it to be more like £3000 than £5000 which what I found with a VSK bike (and they don't do drops).
100% these were the TWO big factors that prevented me from going Pinion. As of now, I'm in!
One thing not mentioned is that once you've cashed out for a Pinion bike, having multiple front AND rear wheels is a minor extra cost, and switching between them is a 2 minute job. Useful for summer and winter wheelsets, or offroad and road ones. I'd be doing this if I ever got such a bike.
Me, as a full-year cyclist, pinion is a blessing. Maintenance free is such a time/cost saver, it's just unbelievable!!!
If running tubes, and expect few yearly wheel swaps, changing tires is smarter. A few minutes more, but no big deal. It's a good chance for maintenance. Now for trail vs road use, I see your point. Not much different than a derailleur bike though, since belt sprockets aren't cheap.
@@seitenryu6844 Yes, but belt sprockets are far cheaper than a decent IHG, which is the only alternative in my case. Swapping tyres is a much bigger hassle than just swapping wheels - how much depends on particular tyre/rim combos, but it's far more work. When spring arrives in february, but winter suddenly returns in march - with tyre swaps, I'd generally wait until april, to make sure I only do two swaps per year. With wheelsets, I'd swap more often, and get a safer and more comfortable ride, and maybe some cost saving eventually on less wear of the expensive studded winter tyres. To each their etc...
@@tvuser9529 You can order a built nexus 8 wheel for under 150 USD. A single gates cog is 100 USD.
I'm so glad to see you mentioned the Korean startup working on a gearbox. I'm so excited to see progress on that model.
It will never be the same as the pinnion...I got two touring bike with Rholoff Speedhubs and a bike with the Shimano equivalent....the Shimano is a shadow of of the Roholoff...same will be here....
Pinion seems to be an excellent choice for many riders, but prices need to come down as production numbers go up. They need more competition.
As always, your presentation is stellar 🌟.
It’s hard for niche products like this to compete on price against a widespread and mature tech like derailleurs. It would probably take a very large manufacturer (read: only Shimano or SRAM) making a huge bet on it and essentially subsidizing it to grab market share, except it would be at the expense of cannibalizing their own sales.
I need i friend from Europe to buy me a pinion gearbox. I am from Russia. I talked to a russian bike conpany "rapid" manufacturing bike from titan, and they said that pinions no longer imported due to sanctions. They said i need friends in Europe to buy pinion. Sad, but i don't have any friends in Europe .
blame putin.@@mesnyankin89
Thank you so much to bring this great development on the table. I was always interested in a bike with pinion gearbox, now this is for me the point where i cant really resist. Absolutely stocked by the new shifting options. Just waiting for an good eMTB with Pionion gearbox 😊 Thank you once again for ypur video, love it ❤
Nice, but as with all gearboxes cost more then a new kidney! :P Prices overall need to come down on all gearboxes.
The pinion costs more than an entire brand new Honda motorcycle
@janeblogs324 I was looking at a new Specialized Stumpjumper EVO Pro and this bike is selling for 13k now.
I have a 2022 and thought 8k was steep.
They are cheaper than the latest Shimano or SRAM group sets though.
Are they cheaper than than 2x cassettes an new chain and derailleur every year though?
A Shimano Nexus or Alfine doesn't cost all that much. There are also offerings from NuVinci and others.
Good on pinion for their innovation! Would be nice if they stepped up on their website and listed current manufacturers c/w bike style eg hard tail , xc , gravel etc
An excellent video and explanation, Alee! I’m excited to test that electronic shifting at some point in the future. Loving my C1.12 so much!
Outstanding video!! Surprised Priority is one who had progressed and at the same time elated that a Korean pinion bicycle is on its way. Many options and loving them all! Thank you to the bearer of good news Mr. Durham.
really cool to see you've been tracking the allto gearbox too. i'm pretty hype for a cheap gearbox, and the guy's youtube videos on the development have been very fun to watch.
Re the SCRAM Pinion, at EU5099, the pinion is LOOOOOOONG way from "killing" derailleur tech. The other 3 flatbar bikes are all equally expensive. Nice to dream, but my tourer/commuter cost me AU$550 plus about AU250 worth of self installed upgrades. It's 8 years old and only just feels like it could use a new ring, chain and cassette. It's done Melbourne to Sydney, Melbourne half way to Adelaide and the sort of commuting around Melbourne, even most serious cyclists tend to give most of to the car. (I don't drive. At all.) The Pinion system needs to come down to Shimano or even MicroSHIFT prices and get some sort of general compatibility with British bottom bracket frames before it will "kill" derailleurs. Like I say, nice to dream, but mere mortals are "stuck" with Tulio's brilliance for a while yet. Besides, I love servicing my own bike - can't do that anywhere near as easily with a gearbox bike.
Pinion gearboxes with a Gates Carbon belt drive system are essentially service-free.
@@spdcrzy The bike as a whole isn't service free. You still need to periodically check and adjust the tire pressure and brake.
@@spektrumB but compared to everything else? That's nothing. That's regular maintenance, not service. There's a difference.
@@spdcrzy I honestly don't know what serious service you need for deraileur. I commute 250Km a week. All I have to do is re-lube the chain once a week. That two minute job. Once a month I spend 30 min cleaning the bike, check tire pressure and brakes. Yearly expenses for tire, brake wear, chain, cassette, cables, etc is €150. That is €150 for 10,000Km. I own this bike since 2009. Still using the same original rear deraileur and shifter. Even with Pinion gear box, you still have the same cost of tire and brake wear and service.
Sure you can say I have a full time job and three kids. 2 minutes a week is way too much to spend on lubing a chain. Or I'm a high paying lawyer making €1000 an hour. Spending 2 minutes to work on the bike is not worth it.
@@spektrumB Agreed. Folks trying to hype up gearboxes tend to exaggerate the maintenance needed to keep a chain and derailleur in working order. For most people, it's minimal.
Amazing content, again! If I did more loaded touring per year, a gravel bike with this system would be a no brainer for me. Spare belt though, never want to see a group split up again because of a broken belt with no replacement around.
Excellent news - wasn‘t aware of. That is something I have definitively been waiting for!! Hurra!! Thank you 🙏
I love the idea of new technologies and innovations. . However as much as I would love to have a pinion equipped bike it costs more than my last 2 bikes cost together and now has electronics and a battery! Im not a complete retrogrouch but this is a step in the wrong direction for me. I love bicycles for their simplicity. I don't want something else to charge.
Should be easy for Pinion to engineer a little dynamo inside the gearbox unit that charge the electric shifting mechanism. Or better yet, connect it to a USB outlet to charge lights and GPS tracker. Yes, it would decrease the efficiency of an already innefficient drivetrain system. I think that is a compromise that some people are willing to take.
I have to agree, if it’s better mechanically, keep it mechanical, don’t try to make it “even better”
There are/were mechanical versions before the electronic shifting one. And brifters are available.
Anyone remember the GT IT-1 from late 2005/early 2006 ? I got to demo one at a race in Fontana, CA. and loved it ! 8 speed gearbox with twist shifter - always wondered why it never took off - great to see dialed gearbox bikes finally getting to market … awesome ! 🍻
great presentation of the new Pinion.
Thanks
Your videos are always well done
Many thanks!
You have to praise the engineers to create a gear box in such a small size and light weight. Incredible.
I have been waiting this for years! Glad I have not purchaed any other bike.
Great commentary, again, Alee. Agreed that more folks will feel comfortable with the new changes, but seriously, shifting on the current models and with a grip shifter has been absolutely no problem for me the past couple of years.
Makes sense for slow speed long distance touring and heavier MTBs and possibly E city bikes. Hopeless for road and gravel though - low efficiency, extremely low top gear, no power meter unless you run PM pedals, no oval rings if you prefer them.
I have had a Pinion gearbox on my recumbent trike for over three years now. It's been very reliably and I have made full use of the 12-speed...an electronic shifting option would be even better, IMO.
The combination of electronic shifting and gearboxes is for sure the future of at least most of the ebikes. I would have expected this kind of products to be compatible with shimano or sram wireless shifters btw.
I just found your channel and I am loving it
Great to hear!
Except... you cant use 'Brand X' gearbox on 'Brand Y' frame like you can with the nearly 99% universal fit derailleur.
That is why this, while probably a better technology, will never really catch on and replace the derailleur.
Never mind cost. I think the recent 'marketing push' of the pinion gearbox is interesting too.
The only hope is the bike industry settling on a universal standard for ebike motors and Pinion making gearboxes compatible with this, followed by bike companies making light frames with the same mount when they realise there are no extra tooling costs since it's already been paid for by the e-bike investment.
It's also less efficient than a derailleur.
i totally get why some people like the electronic trigger shifing and it def has some advantages and its right to exist, but i would have loved to see a mechanichal trigger option with a no battery in the system, please do it denkendorf
That wouldn't help, the trigger doesn't consume the battery, it's the sensors in the system itself. As long as these aren't e-bikes it would still need an external charge
There is a company that has developed triggers for Pinion mechanical gearboxes, but they are exclusive to their bikes. So it's obviously possible, and I don't understand why Pinion insists on sticking with grip shifters.
Grip shifters are/were awful. I had one in the early MTB days with a SRAM shifter.
Still not for me. But looks promising with electronic shifters. And having more options is always good.
And thank you for making this video. Nice to see content from you, again. An updated video about flat bar gravel bikes would be nice 🙂
what's the efficiency compared to a clean derailleur/chain system?
Amazing channel and analysis ! Subscribed.
Welcome aboard!
This is great news , Thank you :)
I’m 2 years away from a grand cross-continental trip, still thinking about the bike - this certainly puts a Pinion gearbox top of the list.
I've done a couple of long term tours with a Pinion gearbox and I can't recommend it enough.
Thank you. Very useful.
I used to ride a bike with a Rohloff hub but got frustrated with the mushy shifting on the grip shifter. So this sounds really cool.
Bummer that's how you experienced it. A good cable setup should get you relatively crisp shifting with a Speed hub. I really liked mine when I had it.
You can get electronic shifting with shifting under load on the Rohloff as well.
Those TRP shifters look so nice, and the Pilot is a sweet looking ride. I have a Priority 600HXT on order. The electronic shifting and thumb shifter tipped the balance for me. I think Priority has done an excellent job of speccing this bike and making it relatively affordable. The next few years should see a good number of manufacturers adopting gear boxes with these new innovations and I'm sure more on the way. I briefly had a Priority 600X and did not like the twist shift and the super short reach geometry felt weird. I'm hoping the 600HXT is comfortable for long days of pedaling so I can use it double duty as a shredder and a bikepacking bike.
How do you think the XHT will do on long days in the saddle?
@@srileo We'll see. I'm somewhat familiar with the geometry as Ive had full suspension bikes with similar numbers and it is great for long days riding trails. I'm not sure how it will feel for long days, say 6 hours of rough but non technical riding. I'd like to do the 1000km bikepacking loop in Kenya and I think with the right cockpit setup it'll be sweet.
My Priority 600X with the grip shift Pinion was stolen about a month ago. My insurance company covered the loss and I'm replacing it with the 600HXT with the electronic shifting. I'll let you know what I think. Looking forward to more news from your bikepacking in Africa! All the best to you and Laura, Ron
And
Thanks for a great review 👍👌
I've been cycling too long for the shift under load to be an issue but the move to a trigger shifter is really interesting now.
Now, if only they can sort out the 12 points of engagement so I can clock the cranks on technical climbs, I'll make the switch.
I just shift under load. Lol. I just don't care.
I use an old hub gearbox, and yeah having to briefly back off the torque when shifting hasn't been an issue for me. I love the idea of a bb gearbox over a hub one, but the price and (in this case) the electronic complexity is a turn off.
It is cooler, definitely...
But I still love the simplicity of a normal crank !
I love grip shifters
Been wanting a Zerode with belt drive hub gear box for years now...... still saving for it
Two years ago, I bought a pair of Priority 600 bikes, for myself and wife. I really like the Pinion 12spd. Even though it has it's 'quirks'. The twist shifter is clunky, but functional. I'm excited to hear Pinion is upping their game, with both electronic and mechanical options. However, for the type of cycling we do, I find the gearing a bit too low. Most of my riding is in the 7th-12th range. I only have to 'go low' when tackling an extreme grade. Rarely, and I mean rarely, am I ever in need of 1st gear. And at that point in the climb, I'm going so slow, I worry about losing balance. My 'dream bike' would be a full suspension road/gravel bike, Pinion gearbox, and drops. Titanium frame, carbon fiber wheels, and 30ish mm tires. 10-12 kilos weight, if possible, would be great.
Interesting to hear about competitors! So no patents? This means the space will improve quickly and prices will become a lot more accessible.
Note that only novel mechanisms are patentable, and gearboxes can be effected in different ways.
Incredible upgrade for Regular short distance cyclists, but its hard for long distance tourers like us...
Any idea on whether it can be implemented in P.18 line for long distance Bike touring?
Love my pinon gear box on my priority 600x
Kamran on bike! 0:37 That guy is living legend.
Very cool! Now I just need a fully frame with a higher BB than most current designs :)
We got dropper posts and tubeless tyres which have been game changers ! Gearboxes are the new No going back option.
We just need the big boys like SRAM and Shimano to get serious about gearboxes. Introduce some competition in the marketplace. Then we'll see some real innovation.
As I have understood electronic shifting is mandatory for the shifting. I would be a bit hesistant to rely on electronic shifting on tours in remote places. What's your take in it Allee?
This is my biggest issue. I want reliability and lack of maintenance above all else, so electronic components feels bad
Great video, Alee.
I got a regular c1.12 and am building a frame for it, gates, onyx.
Will the new C1.12 e-shifter version fit the same metal cabinet used to house the box in the frame?
My plan for now is to use twist shifter on a 22.2 bar end mount placed at the tops of my dropbar, or fit it on 22.2 aero bars.
But if I later upgraded to the e-shift pinion, that would be a huge improvement with a trigger shift rig.
As far as I know the mount of a C1.12 and a C1.12i are the same, so you could swap them out. However the box internals are very different, so you need to do a full box swap. (I'm in the same position for my Nicolai GAM, but I might just order a new frame around that new box.) An Onyx hub in combination with Pinion is a great combo btw, it is the least amount of non engagement you can get. :) (The pinion can have, at times, a reasonable large engagement gap, so you can use all the help there.) :) Another plus is that this will be a total silent ride. :) Enjoy!
Can’t wait for more e-bikes to have the pinion combined motor/gearbox setup.
I've got a custom pinion frame being built. My builder purchased the gearbox then a week later eurobike happened and Pinion announced the smart.shift release. I'm really hoping pinion will come to the party and allow us to return the C.12 for an equivalent in smart.shift form. The only other option for me is to get onto the Instinctive Bikes mechanical trigger shifter production run.... for those that don't know, Instinctive Bikes out of Europe are offering up for sale their in-house pinion trigger shifter for a limited time.
I've been in contact with pinion a bit and they have said November is when smart.shift.will be available for.purchase.
If the bike needs electronics for its core functionality, it's instantly disqualified. So the TL:DW summary is: nothing changed, you still have to use the grip shifter.
Disqualified from what? Electronic shifting is reliably used on numerous other types of bikes at all riding levels. You may not like it, but that’s your opinion.
I'm also not interested. But it's most likely the future.
@@LifeCycle1978 Problem is that it can't be connected to the bikes onboard generator.
Now you need to take care of an extra battery. If I'd want to do this, I would ride my e-scooter.
This on a high pivot and idler enduro bike would be a dream
What folding bikes will use the 2024 Pinion Gearbox. Thank you.
This is brilliant
Hi Alee - would you say the new Pinon would be a better alternative to a Rohloff/Gates combo when looking to build a world touring bike today? Is there any improvement in resistance, and wouldn't electronic shifting just add another point of failure when on the road? Thanks
There are pros and cons to both so it really depends on what you value most from your drivetrain (I made a Rohloff/Pinion comparison video a few years back). The 2024 update probably benefits mountain bikes and gravel bike the most, but I would personally have no qualms travelling with electronic shifting. That said, the prudent thing to do would be to wait a few years to see if any durability issues arise with the electronic components.
Have you seen the one now that also has a mid motor working with the Pinion Gear Box? The seem to be first installed on Trail MTB's.
I wonder if there’s a recumbent mode for shifting under load since pedal pressure is applied differently? Different angle of attack sort of speak.
thanks for making a video about it. I'm following the pinion smart.shift development for a while now and I'm so ready for such a non E-Bike
again, i thank the early adopters for making this tech for me and my fellow poor mortals to at least be able to afford them used in a few years (decade), i just want more frame manufacturers make a gearbox compatible bikes
I feel like this is a horses for courses thing.
For mountain bikes (XC racing aside) gearboxes like Pinion really make sense, for gravel, commuting, or cycle touring they make some sense too.
For cycle touring and commuting rear hub gears make a lot of sense.
For racing (road, XC, gravel) the current efficiency deficit makes for derailleurs still being king.
The new Pinion combined motor and gearbox for ebikes makes so much sense it's surprising it took so long to develop.
If/when gearboxes can bridge the efficiency and weight gaps i think we'll start seeing them used for everything (unless the UCI goes "full we tod" and bans them from road racing).
Can this replace an existing P1-18 gear box? Are the attachment points on the bike the same
what choices of power do motors come with? thanks
So. Very. Exciting! Time to replace my ol' trusty Giant NRS from 2006!
@Cyclingabout
Alee, could you provide the names for the Korean gearbox and the two systems shown briefly at 9:42 and 9:47? Thanks a lot!
Great video :)
I'm excited for this, but a bit disappointed they couldn't accomplish some of this with analog techniques. I have a C1.12 on my cargo bike with a belt and I basically do nothing to it except brake adjustments. The off chance that the battery is dead leaves me reluctant to consider this.
Would be interesting to know it there are some workaround for pedal kickback on gearboxes, like ochain or high pivot on traditional transmission
Thanks for the information! I have been following these developments, presented by you and others, in bicycles with gearbox, design. One is left wondering when these type of bicycles will be readily available in Australia. What is your estimate to when we will see these geared bicycles becoming more common. I daresay that these gear box bicycles would be eagerly awaited by Melbourne, Sydney, and Brisbane commuter and mountain biking rider communities.
I hope they also release mechanical gearbox without any battery and flat bar shifter
Can the battery directly hooked up to a hub dynamo? Would be nice to have a complete hassle free setup for trekking bikes.
this is the future, amazing technology
Ale - contacted Pilot and their plans for the Scram Pinion i are only for the 12 speed version.
Do you know of a Ti maker who plans to fit the 18 speed.
I can’t understand Pilot’s position because the two gearboxes are identical in their external dimensions and mounting.
Hope you can help.
I just met a guy with a pinion touring Europe . With 3500 km he was starting to have problems
Very lovely and slightly sprightly 🐘
gearboxes like the pinion are nice but how many can you sell considering that they are poles apart pricewise with that of derailleurs.
Can u/anyoane please recommend a nonprofi trekking /touring bike w. Pinion please (ideally w full suspension)? Thx so much!
Will be really interesting if one of these gets put on a gravel racer... the number of drivetrain issues that knocked elite racers out of Unbound was shocking.
Why can't Pinion make a hydraulically actuated gear shifter? The main disadvantage of electronic shifting is that you need a battery. You're screwed if you forget to charge your battery (SRAM Eagle AXS I'm looking at you). Then you will have the world's most expensive single speed bicycle. Of course the problem goes away if you have a dynamo hub on your bicycle.
You can also charge the Pinion battery with a small battery pack, which you could keep in the car or garage. If you're travelling, you probably already have one for your phone.
The main disadvantage of these new-fangled automobiles is the fuel tank. If you forget to put gas in it, you're screwed. The main disadvantage to these new-fangled cellular phones is they have a battery. If you forget to charge them, you're screwed. I'm real tired of the charging argument when it comes to electronic shifting. The dead battery fault lies with the user, not the system.
@@mtbikesam68without having tried any electronic shifter, may I provide a counter point:
Phone batteries (all batteries) are notorious for losing maximum capacity over time. While I have accepted that I buy a new phone every three years or so (not necessarily due to the battery), I'm not sure if I would feel the same way about expensive bike parts. And if I happen to leave the bike in a shed through winter, or a whole year, will the battery drain over time, and I have to charge it before using the bike? And what about temperatures? Most electronic components struggle in the coldest winters or hottest summers. I'd prefer if my gearbox doesn't explode or lock up.
@@thorbear how many shifts per charge was it again?
@@thorbear all in good fun. I have always enjoyed the tech side of the bike world, but I also have bikes with cables and rim brakes. Some cyclist luddites would scoff at a gearbox at all, claiming one gear is all you need! It's all good. I have had wireless electronic shifting on my mountain bike for almost three years now and have never had a single problem. I keep an extra battery, always stay on top of charging them and I bring the extra with me when I ride. I absolutely love riding my bike, so I have adapted myself to the needs of the electronic system. To each his own! Cheers.
Interesting development, I really like hub and gearbox derailleurs, but I'm still not buying into any form of electronic assistance to shifitng.
I think there are good and bad implementations of electronics, especially on bikes.
For derailleur gears I feel like it's a lot of complication and expense for not much gain.
In this situation, where the electronics are used to do something a cable can't (time the shifts for the appropriate part of the pedal stroke) it starts to make sense.
We've been using chain/sprocket based drive trains on bike for 100+ yrs so it's high time for a technological revolution in that area. As much as these advances are impressive they won't really take off until the endorsements of major manufacturers and their high profile riders start happening. This next year is when I might finally make the leap to E-MTB. I'd consider a gearbox bike if the major manufacturers offered them
Are pinion frames compatible with frames for crank motors like Bosch and Shimano Steps? Then it might be possible to convert e.g. an older ebike with a busted motor unit to an e-pinion. If those units are sold to consumers at all.
You didn’t say if the new gearboxes are interchangeable with pinion’s previous offerings. I have a Co-Motion with a p18 gearbox.
excited that internal low maintenance gear boxes are gaining popularity. the electronic shifting gives me pause, however, i have just seen too much failure and nightmare struggles with endless troubleshooting. "have you tried turning off and on?" ...and ppl think self driving cars/trucks/planes are just around the corner...
I would like to see gearboxes in all of our bikes except my race rigs. Fortunately it evolved from square tapered to splined connection. The second best option is hub gear with grease button.
Pinion seems to have shifted their attention to ebikes, with motor-gearbox Integrated drivetrain. In that case, battery should be plenty enough as long as it is enough for motor to run. Can you cover if dynamo hubs can also charge these shifters, though?
Converted my Moser 1985 steel frame road bike from Campag racing triple to Shimano Alfine 11 speed gear hub with Di2 drop bar shifters, will never go back to derailleurs. The transmission is silent with no freewheel noise and a delight to ride.
Awesome info, does anyone know a builder of full suspension titanium pinion XC bikes??
Much,much better without gripshift,thanks
Electronic shifting now fully removes this option for me.
Would love to see a tandem with this gearbox.
There is a company that offers them already, however, for an unknown (at least to me) reason their implementation requires three belts.
I'm trying to work out how it could use 3 belts - unless it was a 3 seater or the gearbox was mounted separate to both riders' cranks for no reason i can think of...
@@peglor Search for Co-Motion's Java, Speedster or Mocha tandems.
@@peglor assuming this is about the co-motion pinions, weird layout either because the pinion's design prohibits having both cranks and 2 belts attached to gearbox because its not meant for tandems so they have to treat it the same way as gearing on trikes or because they wanted the gearbox in the middle for weight distribution
@@dodecahedron1 Definitely a few good possibilities there alright. I'd be very surprised if there was no way to attach a sprocket to the left crank for the synch chain though. Usually just using a RH crank and helicoiling the pedal thread to change it to a left hand thread so the pedal won't work loose all the time does the job, but the RH crank on a Pinion gearbox doesn't have a sprocket at all, so this isn't an option, so it's down to the BB axle interface.
I have the P18. I can feel the efficiency loss but for where i ride the tiny loss is acceptable. I totally got used to the drum shifter. Moving my hand to shift has become second nature. I am going to try waxing the chain on my other bike then i will see which I ultimately prefer. Meanwhile the P18 on my Co-Motion Divide is a workhorse and carries a load.
Other than pilot his there an other company who offers bacpacking frame with the pinion smart chifter ( c1.12.i) with dropbars ?
The Dutch brand Jongerius is also selling a gravel bike with it.
There are already many gravel bikes with a pinion gearbox. But the shifters could certainly be better. If I'd buy a new bicycle today I'd want the new pinion gearbox. But what I have now is great. The only thing better is single speed when you don't go up hill a lot.
7:38 you mentioned the Korean startup for this gearbox, mind if you share what your source of that news was?
The All-to RUclips channel.
Good info. Who is the music by during this video (i.e. band name, song title, etc.)?
I have a gravelbike with a pinion gear with a mechanical dropbar shifter. Shifting under load would be nice though.
Lectric eBikes just came out with their Lectric ONE that has one of these standard, along with belt drive. It's the C1.6i. Whole bike costs $1999 or $2199 (long range).
Can anything work without an app?