Bungie just released 5 articles going over the future of Destiny the day before this goes live. It's too late for me to edit the video at this point to address that unfortunately. But the future isn't as uncertain as it appeared to be previously. There's still lots of unknowns and concerns but they do mention that crafting should not replace the loot chase and that's really important to me. Just addressing a potential issue that came about due to timing on my part lol
I dunno man, I kinda like not having to go back and grind old content as new content comes out because I feel I don't get rewarded enough for the amount of time I put into some of these raids/dungeons to get the roll I want for all 4 slots. I'd feel too overwhelmed with all the other content. Plus, if that were the case, imo it would be easier to find people to farm stuff in dungeons. Ive noticed people just move on quick and if you dont have the time to complete it right when it comes out then people are just burned out quick because they either dont like it or already done it for the week. I just can't relate to this at all. I still love VOW for the music, I love SE for the thrill of final battles. There's just some content I want to get through and move on, Like fkn GotD.
@@ryeuhnbrus8287 That's partly what I'm saying. People move on so quickly because there's no reason to stay around. There's merit in feeling unrewarded from your time investment due to not having any functional reward, I just don't like how crafting has replaced playing the game.
@bloodelf941 Yea, there's merit, but I don't feel it. Lol I guess I'm just wired different. I'd rather play with weapons that I can craft and be proud of rather than weapons I'm just like, well, RNG said this is good enough after 30 solid runs.
@bloodelf941 Can't help how you feel. Can't be mad that some people feel differently. I just know after 10 years of playing this game I still love it enough to keep playing and kill new stuff with my fully crafted Forbearance. 🤣
Crafting is actually the best thing destiny ever added to the game. It put the loot focus to red boarders and activity specific loot. Which was a significant time saver/optimizer. It also allowed players to EXPERIMENT with different roll combinations by reshaping the weapon. Which incentives material farming. The problem isn’t crafting. The problem is bungie not updating the loot pool for older ritual activities, how horrible the rng is and bungie killing our loot optimizations. Crafting isn’t responsible for poor player numbers. It’s bungie killing the various optimized loot grinds players have found like getting 2 exotic class items from the dual destiny dungeon or opening chests in the landing for exotic CI drops WITHOUT A VIABLE ALTERNATIVE. The problem with modern destiny is the majority of the activities are pointless to run because the loot SUCKS outside of the activities relevant to the current season/episode. So as soon as players run said activities and players get their desired drops they have no reason to play.
The issue isn't that they mitigated the grind. The issue is that the grind is mundane. There is still a sort of grind for red borders. But as an adult with a job and a life outside the game (I dont have 17 kids and 10 jobs and 3 wives or whatever the meme was), getting a group of my friends together to grind the same boring content, or grind out raids and dungeons until they become boring content, is next to impossible. For the people who are now Destiny lifers who do nothing with their spare time but play Destiny, maybe crafting did ruin everything. But for the majority of us who are consistently burnt out after 10 years of the same boring content, crafting is a great way to get in and get things done so I can move on to other games. Well that's the problem, right? Everyone plays for the first week of a content drop then moves on to other games when they would otherwise spend more time in the game "having fun" grinding for god rolls. But what would actually happen is in the short term you would have higher player retention. Long term people will get burnt out and quit the game outright. I can say from my experience (and my friends in my clan as well) that if I had to grind out god rolls, I would quit playing. If the god roll grind is boring and takes too long, I give up on the grind for the god roll, having a vault full of boring rolls. No incandescent heal clip rolls... I'll settle for boring old beacon snap shot, because that's the best my RNG could muster. Now the gameplay and grind are significantly more boring because I can't blow up enemies and watch the fireworks show. So the crafting system made for better player retention long term. What has actually ruined everything is Bungie's inability to keep players interested in the grind. They have done nothing to keep the old game modes fresh (crucible, strikes, dungeons, RIP gambit), and have added very few new game modes that aren't just more of the same... kill waves of enemies, pick up thing they drop, throw/dunk thing, rinse and repeat. If they don't add new, fresh, fun content nothing will bring players back.
@cantonphantom Onslaught and the Shiny weapon variants having as much success as they did at keeping players invested disagrees with your claim. It was a very basic horde mode with limited enemy meshes, but it kept people happy with something to chase for a while. While I agree that the game's pretty much had the same mechanics as always just with different flavors or slants, anytime they add more mechanics to increase depth, people get pissed. If you don't want to play the game them don't play the game, but crafting expedited the timeline for those that do in a way that nothing else did. On top of completely devaluing loot overall.
@@bloodelf941 Onslaught was exactly what I was referring to as one of the few modes they've added that has been somewhat successful. So idk how that disagrees with my claim. Menagerie and Dares also come to mind. The problem is that those modes grow stale very quickly. There's very little variety to them. The grind for the weapons becomes mundane. Onslaught did very little for player retention as it kind of died before the end of the season and still gets some action, but nobody's talking about it like it saved the game. The reason being, its more of the same (Forge but longer). The few people that are still playing it aren't doing it because the weapon grind is fun. But I am curious as to what mechanics they've added that were different and added depth that people got pissed about. I can't think of one. Destiny fans haven't gotten pissed about new mechanics unless they were the same kill, dunk, repeat mechanics with a different shape. And I do want to play the game. I'm all for a grind if the grind is fun. If the core of the game was grinding fun activities that kept the players interested for more than just "I have to get the god roll that will be obsolete next season," then I would be on your side with crafting. But since the game grows stale within a week or two of every season/episode, I want the game to respect my time. And unfortunately for the people who ONLY play Destiny, crafting has to be a thing for the long term retention of players. And I'll throw this right back at you... If you don't like crafting and want to grind for rolls, you still can. Maybe you don't get the enhanced perks that add small increases to the perks, But you don't have to craft. You choose to. People didn't stop playing because the loot grind got cut down. They stopped playing because the activities are boring.
I meant the proverbial you when I said that, my bad. Came off a little hostile with that one. Apologies. I bring up Onslaught because it was very basic. Shoot enemies, throw batteries, kill boss, repeat. No new mechanics. Dual Destiny comes to mind as an activity that people did not want to engage with and complained about. Maybe vocal reddit gamers more than real people with brains, but that's a recent example. The current issue with that is more that people have gotten used to the activity and want to have the exact roll on the exotic, than the content itself being boring specifically. Not having any functional reward after investing time turns people off, no matter the quality of the content. We've gotten so conditioned to having the dopamine hit from the end chest that when you get blue balled by not giving a shit about the gear, it breaks something. You're not satisfied. There's something there to pull at if I was smarter, live service models and loot pinatas leading to addiction or someshit, but I'm not intelligent enough to break down that in any way that I would feel comfortable doing lmao. A less recent example is how people do not like Battlegrounds and prefer the lower intensity strikes for Nightfalls. But that leads to my next point. Playlists growing stale is absolutely a factor, I still find fun in doing the repetitive stuff because I'm doing something else at the same time or working on creating something and the raw gunplay feels as amazing as ever because Bungie's combat team are wizards, but the variety of content is lacking. I just don't know what the devs could do. When the drop off in player engagement as you climb the difficulty ladder is as drastic as Destiny's why bother investing in challenging the player or making them use their brain beyond clicking on the bad guys? Game dev takes money and time. If nobody does the thing, why bother spending it? But then that gets into how difficulty functions in Destiny, how numbers shifts are boring and cheap, many more paragraphs of hyper-fixation that putting in a RUclips comment section would not do justice lmao. I do want to say that choosing to craft is technically true, but an argument that I really do not enjoy. Yes you chose the buttons that you press, and it is ultimately my decision to engage with whatever mechanics that exist in whatever way I see fit. But it's a core part of the game that touches EVERYTHING, it's like saying you don't have to use ashes of war in Elden Ring. Yeah I don't HAVE to, but then I wouldn't be playing Elden Ring. There's probably a better example somewhere but I can't think of it right now lol
@@bloodelf941 Well said. I think overall we agree that the core gameplay is flawed. That's the root of my point that crafting didn't ruin Destiny. If any thing crafting is more of a side effect to the redundant gameplay. Crafting is a bandaid on the gunshot wound that is Destiny's gameplay loop. If the activities were fun, crafting wouldn't be necessary. And I think the perfect example of that is Dungeon loot. Dungeons are fun and almost universally praised by the community. And we are willing to farm the dungeons weekly for the loot, hoping for the god roll. But fewer people enjoy repeating the same 3 battlegrounds in the same way as they do dungeons, therefore crafting feels like a necessity for that loot. On another note, I don't know anyone who complained about the actual mechanics of Dual Destiny. Maybe that's just me and my clan. We all loved the mechanics... grinding it over and over and getting some combination of the same 4 perks 12 times in a row wasn't fun. And the battlegrounds are little more than a VERY slightly different take on strikes, so I wouldn't say that Battlegrounds shook up the formula or added any new mechanics for people to complain about. It falls into that category that I mentioned about people complaining that its just more of the same.
@cantonphantom all of what you say has merit, and I agree with, to various extents per point, I think I just put the weight more so at the feet of crafting than the rest of the game. On people not liking things, I saw quite a few tweets and reddit comments complaining about Dual Destiny requiring 2 people and how awful it is to have to talk to people and communicate. Granted, I do search this shit out so maybe that's on me for having a confirmation bias. I've also got a video, the first "real one" I've made since I started doing this shit regularly that had a myriad of comments from people who did not want to raid because it's too hard. I've got a large amount of very much anecdotal experience with people not wanting to be challenged. But as it is anecdotal, I can only speak to my own perception. Good back and forth, Thanks for your time
Walt, i dont know man... Bungie knows their audience, and the "loot chase" is an archaic old thing that is outdated: Having to run RNG on top of RNG to get proper weapons to do endgame activities doesnt intice many players and makes them leave faster. People want to just get into the endgame content and be competitive with other players and thats understandable. RNG is not enjoyable to 90% of players. And with an ever changing sandbox, something you grinded 50 runs for over several months because it's good, by the time you actually get it it's probably not good anymore and thus the drop is not satisfying. I dare say having to play Destiny less is nothing but a good thing? Repetition creates apathy, and Destiny is 90% subpar if not bad content that most players don't want to be grinding for the rest of their lives. To pretend like crafting killed the player population is disingenuous at best, the player population is leaving because the main story of the game is done, and there's nothing interesting for them. PvP players are leaving not because of crafting but because the sandbox and meta is awful to play. PvE players such as I take breaks because the game is fundamentally boring to play 90% of the time. "Oh boy, I can't wait to play the same battlegrounds 70 fucking times today to hopefully get a good roll on a weapon that will be powercrept next season and has 12 perks in each column!!" Crafting was a correct decision, if the only thing that keeps you playing is chasing items and not the actual gameplay, then the problem is the gameplay. I myself still play content when I have what I want when the content itself is enjoyable (Spire of the Watcher bangs) I do agree that Destiny 3 shouldve been the next thing: we can drop old console support, make new and improved systems, and create a new narrative because the writing is pretty much all flawed, etc. Interesting watch nonetheless
@Guyy_1 Appreciate it, there's a couple of things I want to respond to, and if I come across as dismissive, I apologize. That's not my intention. I do acknowledge the end of the saga being a large factor to the player population leaving. In fact, I mention that I think not enough people are recognizing that fact. Whether or not we agree about the loot chase being outdated, it doesn't matter. Games like Diablo exist and remain profitable solely due to that loot chase. Seeing the cool item drop is still exciting and addicting, no matter how predatory it is, and trains people to become dependent on the source of that drop. The quality of the content on offer is important, I agree. If you're apathetic and don't care, then you shouldn't be playing. Those are separate factors, though, to what I believe the largest one is that affects everybody, and that is crafting. Every game is on a timer from the minute you launch it, right? How long until you close it for the last time for whatever reason. Crafting shortens that timer, more than any other factor for every single kind of player. That end point where you've done everything you care about and gotten everything you want will be arriving that much shorter for everybody. Hard-core players, casual players, checklist enthusiasts, etc. No matter how good the content, they will walk away and be done. We see that with raid statistics mainly. There's such a small number of people who have ever completed a single raid that it's a miracle we ever got another one beyond VoG. Yes, the content's gotta be fun. That is very, VERY important, but if there's nothing to chase, this community doesn't care. You know there's still secrets in the dreaming city that I have done that there aren't guides for (I haven't looked in a while, so there might be now) to this day since there's no triumph or a reward tied to? Cool little scavenger hunts. Little things to make the patrol space feel like a city lived in by the Awoken. Nobody cares. Endgame tier gear doesn't translate to Best in Slot, some stuff is exceptional like Conditional Finality or Buried Bloodline. But mostly you can get a weapon that competes in challenge mode raiding from just doing patrol tier content. Not that you'd need to though since this game has just slowly over time had itself stripped of challenge to cater to people who don't want to play. Idk there's so much. I appreciate your comment though. Sorry if the lack of coherence became too much to parse lol
@@bloodelf941 Good read, I'll admit I'm not the best person to comment on anything relating to a loot chase because I just find that stuff unengaging, similar to gambling in a sense I do actually agree that destiny does need a loot chase but I also think that it can be unhealthy, on both sides. Year 1 D2 had both bad content and static loot rolls, completely killing any interest in the game, so there is serviceable evidence for your point and I acknowledge that. I'm glad someone else recognizes that many people consider the game "done", Final Shape was essentially the last piece of content for most people, and that's understandable. However it's going to be nigh impossible for Bungie to get new impressions into the game without some form of extreme action like absurd powercreep (see Beyond Light and Final Shape, where the new Subclasses were intentionally overtuned to get people interested) My personal belief is that similar to Fromsoftware with difficulty, Bungie is in an arms race with itself, the game is fundamentally uninteresting to people: that's why they stop playing when they get their gear (this applies to pre crafting too, see the post Forsaken and Beyond Light player drop offs) So how does Bungie get new players? New overpowered gear, easier to access content, easy instant gratification etc. As for difficulty I don't really agree with most people on difficulty in the game, I think that the easier stuff like GMs get the better, the slow plink plink scout rifle gameplay from Beyond Light was not enjoyable to anyone I'd imagine. I think Raids are good on difficulty, however I think base Raids aren't up to the standard Contest mode sets up, which is why Master exists, however Master Raids don't give enough of an incentive to do for most players and as you said most people don't do Raids anyway. Personally, if I were to remove crafting from one thing, it would be raids, and have the Enhanced Adepts are the gear that players of upper skill levels will spend their time on. Also yeah I think the loot chase in general is really flawed, more often than not Raid and Dungeon gear gets out paced by regular Seasonal and World drop gear, it's been 10 years and Bungie still can't figure out a proper hierarchy for loot. Also see Borderlands for a good loot chase, I'm personally not that much of a fan but Borderlands 2 still has a healthy player base after a decade or so because the players just like the game
@Guyy_1 genuinely loved this comment. Bringing up Fromsoft in discussion of difficulty and acknowledging the arms race? Fuck yes 100% agree. Borderlands as a good example of a loot chase as well. Pinatas with many chances, bosses without time gates, and loot that matters, world drops potentially giving you what you need, etc. Full agreement as well. God this is fun.
@@bloodelf941 Glad to have an honest discussion! The Fromsoft thing is something that I think very few people acknowledge, and I think it's harming their games (mainly Elden Ring), but that's a topic for another day. Whenever you do try to discuss it you get the same responses from turtling fans about how you need to get gud and so and so meanwhile I've mastered the systems I'm complaining about. Here's hoping Destiny gets better, whether it's with more or less crafting, I just want to have fun and help people have fun.
Crafting only ruins the game if you play the game for a living and have time to grind for the weapons through the mind numbing grind. I am still trying to get red borders for 3 weapons for SE but I only get to do it at most once a week on one character. I am still trying to get rolls on guns that came into the game 3-4 seasons ago. I also have yet to get the roll on things from VOG and got sick of it after 100+ runs. Crafting has nothing to do with the reason player count has dropped. Look at all the lies they have told us look at all the screw up they have made. There are still thing in Pale Heart people can't complete cause they are bugged. They need to make the game fun to play again. That is the issue. Every friend that has quit have said they have killed the game with changes making things harder and things aren't fun anymore.
@littleman350 "killed the game with changes making things harder" My guy, Destiny 2, is not a difficult video game. It has been stripped of challenge to cater to people with your mentality, and longevity has died with it. Does my channel look like I play this game for a living? Does my production quality indicate that this is my job? I'm a fan who has seen the writing on the wall since the inception of crafting, we are just now at the end point that I've been warning about for years. Please, I beg you, think critically, and stop regurgitating Reddit opinions.
@ryeuhnbrus8287 the power disparity between a perfect crafted weapon and a perfect adept is convenience if you want to swap between 2 perk options. Otherwise a crafted weapon does as good, if not better, than an adept version depending on the weapon in question. What really matters as far as Adepts are concerned, is whether or not you even need a better version. You can only kill things so much dead. 1k damage does the same as 1.2k damage if the target only has 800 hp, if that makes sense?
The curse of instant gratification. You get the shiny toy only to not appreciate it and subsequently put said gun into the vault with all the other items that never get used.
@@bloodelf941 the core of Destiny had always been the chase, not just the loot itself. It feels like Bungie seemingly forgot that the game needs both to succeed and just decided, screw it let’s give everybody no reason to run things more than a handful of times. Mind you the game depends on players running things multiple times per week yet after a month we have everything unlocked.
Inflated game time due to grind does not a good game make. If the only reason to do the thing is the get another hit on the slot machine, the thing isn't fun anymore. For me, I played tons of D1 when there was "nothing to do" because I enjoyed the PvP. I used to play tons of D2 PvP when there was "nothing to do" because I enjoyed it... but over time, neglect (PvP content, PvP balance, cheating) made PvP miserable for me. I stopped PvPing for fun, I PvE what I must and close the game.
@WCMaxi I mean, yeah, that's a massive part of it. But that slot machine works for a reason. Diablo is a massively profitable franchise that exists solely due to the slot machine's hold on people since there are other better ARPGs out there. But it's also super predatory. Content's gotta be good too, not just the reward. But Destiny players don't play content that isn't rewarding, no matter how fun it is. Expediting the process hurts more than helps, is all. I do feel you on pvp being the "nothing to do" content, and the neglect sucks.
Yeah i kinda agree with this. Crafting has made the loot drops feel worse than ever for me personally. Im not sure what can be done other than either a full reset or slowly making crafted weapons have a lower stat total than non crafted weapons. Maybe more unique perk sets, but a non craftable weapon should have higher totals in average. Also i want them to make like... half of the raid weapons in a raid craftable. Keeping all of them craftable is kinda bad for long-term engagement as you mentioned in the video.
Not many people in the player base have time to run raids 1000 times to to get the perfect drop either . So crafting can stay maybe limit it or require more red boarders etc
Crafting has destroyed the replayability of raids. I got my salvations edge red borders and exotic and then havent touched it since. And i think its one of the best raids in the game! That makes me sad
Makes you sad?? Maybe go out?? Get some sunlight? Take a shower? Talk to "Real people" you know not the defenders of "light" The only people who have a problem with crafting are the ones who do nothing besides play this game all day long🤡
Considering how long it takes to grind red borders even while doing something like cheesing Kali, I’m pretty sure you played it some 100 times. Saying an activity that has to be replayed that much has zero replayability is crazy. You need some perspective lol
@@bloodelf941 is that the best excuse you could come up with it to cope? Just admit you don't have a life and look it's not bad but making a video crying about it oh god that's another level of miserable I mean if grinding destiny day and night is what helps you sleep at night go for it Other people have lives you know a family a spouse that loves them something you've probably never heard of
Crafting is bad with the way it is implemented. IMOP its good that we dont have to grind for thd god roll constantly, but it would be wayyyyyyyy better if the best of the best equipment was non crafted(like adepts but better, maybe more stat bumps or another mod slot idfk) just something that is s genuind motivation to pursue that god roll instead of “oh i got my last red border, no more fun times ig”
The amount of people "maybe dont no life the game" people you get is crazy lol its almost like they cant see the otherside if the fence player experience-wise 😅 Hood luck out there man
@revyrev28 I appreciate it, lol. I should probably dial it back and not respond to every comment, but I'm having so much fun with this. I've gotten some very good back and forth discussions from people who disagree but can see the other side or approach it from an angle I hadn't thought about. Despite the overwhelmingly negative reputation, sometimes the RUclips comment section has some people with a brain. Every comment, positive or negative, is engagement, and these jackasses who think I'm getting owned are only boosting my content that much more per interaction. It's hilarious.
Wonderful video. Very much in agreement with what you had to say. One of the only people left in my clan who plays regularly. I have/will have to solo or lfg gms just to clear them now. My friends play less and I’m stuck in a weird spot between extremely hardcore and the good but not great spot where I can find a new good group for me. I have a couple day 1’s with the boys and that was fun, but red borders murder some of my friends interest in the game, and now finding a new group will be difficult. But yeah, this game made some decisions that took out the grinding. Grinding for timelost fatebringer was fun, short, and didn’t eat your time because it dropped more perks than just 1 in all the columns Edit: I would like to add I’m not against crafting, but they made way too many things craftable/enhanceable
I wouldn't mind raid loot being craftable if it was obtained from master level content. It brings people to a loot chase at harder content, perhaps making it need more patterns, do some triumphs forv seal, etc. validate peoples committment to harder content...
I’m fine with crafting being applicable for less weapons but the grind eventually gets tiring for players. Because of massive perk pools even getting the 2 perks you want is frustrating in longer activities for players who are more attracted to the gameplay of destiny 2 than the looter shooter aspect. Maybe adding stronger loot that can’t be crafted while still having crafted weapons that have somewhat less powerful perks help? I just want to have the option to get good weapons(not the best) without grinding for an unholy amount of time.
@nethisnotar9175 I'll give you that. I very much agree. But the system we have now just completely replaced any hunt with crafting and that's feels like shit.
I understand your view point and at the same time I don't agree in the slightest. If not for the crafting I would've dropped the game a couple years ago. I don't find it fun in any capacity to chase some 0.01% chance of getting a weapon I actually want. That's a casino. The situation is even worse when they mix looks and functionality in the same space of randomness (aka “shiny” guns). The lack of crafting was the sole reason I didn't engage with Into the Light content beyond finishing my seal. At the same time, I completely agree, that the current implementation of the system is bad for replayability. What's really interesting is that Bungie are now standing at the crossroad between one flavor of shit and another. If they remove crafting or make it way less impactful someone like me basically quits the game or at least disengages from loot chasing-I'll be doing my seals and flawlesses and be on my way to play some single player games. My playtime will be even less than now, because acquiring patterns takes more time than zero and I'm confident that exotics and all the previous raid weapons will be enough for pretty much anything in the future. If they don't do anything with crafting at all-they are hurting and alienating people like yourself. Well… don't want to be Bungie in this situation =)
@teriantroch I really think crafting should have been kept in check from the start. On it's own, it isn't a bad idea. A way to combat rng, but I think the weapons should have been perfectly acceptable and not Best in Slot options. You get your patterns for the baseline gear to get yourself through the content that gets you the better stuff. Instead it has completely replaced the chase and allowed weapons from bottom of the barrel tier content to compete and surpass those from the highest tier.
@@bloodelf941 Maybe. Hard to say for me as crafting enjoyer. I can only state how things are now. Loot chase as it was… was a miserable experience. Let's take your Indebted Kindness example. For someone like you it was a reason to play the game. For someone like me it was: “(1/6)^2=2.7% chance of getting Lead from Gold / Voltshot. Well, I guess I just keep the first semi-decent roll cause it's new archetype and never care about farming that gun again.” And yes, you say “Well… people don't play now, do they?” and that's true but you don't take into the account that a lot of people return. If I know I can play the raid hard for a couple of months and get everything then I'll be there for the next one. If it's all random-well, doing my seal (which takes significantly less time) and I'm out with some strong consideration of returning at all. I think it's unsolvable divide between people who want Destiny to be their “forever game” and people who want to enjoy the new content and go do something else until the next thing drops. As I said before-tough to be Bungie right now, quite a conundrum.
@teriantroch Fair points, it is going to be very interesting to see how Bungie plans on pulling it back a bit, if they end up committing to that path forward anyway. But that's game dev, shits hard. Appreciate the comments. Very fun to go back and forth on things.
@@bloodelf941 Crafting isn't the problem, HOW they implemented it is. Enhanced perks were a huge mistake and shouldn't exist. They invalidated random rolls completely. Even if you got your perfect 5/5 roll, you would delete it because the crafted version would be better. Then there's how you unlocked the ability to craft a weapon. You get the ability to craft a weapon by acquiring a set number of uncommon to rare versions of it. What those rolls were was irrelevant, so long as they have a red border. Another thing making random rolls irrelevant. A system that provided some inevitability to getting your ideal roll without completely invalidating random drops is what should have been implemented. So, if you got that perfect 5/5 roll the excitement would still be there.
I like weapon crafting, but I also get why you don't like it, maybe the way to balance it would be to me getting red borders harder to obtain? As an example, raid weapons drop red border only in master, seasonal weapon from harder difficulty seasonal activity (if it has harder mode like it should), vanguard stuff in gm, crucible in high tier comp win etc. Of course then the problem would be that those who are bad are locked out, but imo that's fine. I would like crafting to come to all weapons, at least those with huge perk pools. Im currently trying to get Origin Story with Strategist and Rampage, but my chances of getting are really low. Trait column 1 has 12 and so does Trait column 2. If the gun only drops with 1 perk from both my chances are 0.69% if I do not care about about masterwork and it drop with 2 traits on both columns. I would gladly do gm nf to get this gun with red borders, but I have to pray for rng. Getting that 0.69% god roll would make me happy for a moment but I would rather earn it from difficult activities rather than do boring easy grind for it. Anyways good video, bit ranty, but i understand why.
@nkoxi appreciate it, I think there's a happy medium but if we required more patterns it'd be the worst of both worlds imo. The same problems persist, just pushed further out
Technically, crafting makes Bungie develop and balance content easier; just think about it, you'll be balancing a new raid based on players that would have a shot at having a Day 1 clear, who wikk more than likely have the crafted god roll of all meta weapons (Apex, Cataclysmic, Commemoration, The Call, Forbearance, etc etc) But that's it, I MISS getting dropped god rolls, I miss the drops, the chance, the RNG, the fun of it, the injustice of it Getting a red border drop isn't exciting, it's just a checkmark
@Sohelanthropus maybe? But you kinda expect certain pieces of gear to be in use even without crafting. It's an angle I didn't think about, but I don't know how much that matters when Bungie designs content
I didn't want to use RoR music for the longest time because it's music that you really want to listen to and not have as backing you know? But fuck it, it rocks.
I think the problem is that the rewards stay the same from activity to activity. Whether I’m playing on legendary, or doing a master lost sector, or in a patrol zone, I’m gonna get the same kind of drops. The dungeons have some neat weapons, but the RNG really sucks. Who wants to grind out the same dungeon over and over? Crafting makes it more accessible
@shawnphillips4941 Well, that's literally untrue. Patrol zones access the world drop loot pool, master/expert lost sectors have a focused sliver of that loot pool depending on the day plus extra currencies, dungeons and raids have their own weapons and armor, etc. Accessibility options are great, but when they replace the chase entirely, then it becomes a problem, and it has.
Weapon crafting did kill the longevity of the game in my opinion. I think a better option would be to have weapon rerolling at the gunsmith and just need materials to reroll as many times as you want. Of course theres alot more that can be done but its just an idea
@jjq1986 I want to stay away from vendor menus being the way to do things. The gear you get should be tied to gameplay, so there's a story there. An adventure to remember. I really do not enjoy the way we get exotic armor nowadays where engrams just mean trips to Rahool and dismantling old stocked up consumables for glimmer. It's lame, boring, and I'm not playing the game at that point.
Crafting would be perfectly fine if they made more and better content. It doesn't matter what loot acquisition system they use if they release content so little at a time. Also I am a pvp player and I am very thankful I get to almost completely ignore pve.
You are right but.... for casual players like myself thats played since d1, i have no time to grind and lately love the game. I play with my wife and daughter. Its fun family time. Also cafting only works if you already have that gun unlocked so you still have to be good enough to complete end game content
@chrismetalwilson2588 You don't have to be good enough to complete end game content, though. Most patterns are for seasonal weapons that only need you to log in and go to a menu once a week.
@bloodelf941 I agree but those bad ass weapons still elude me lol. Now here's a question I have the choir of one and have it crafted all the way because of the secret chest and all the bs involved with getting everything for choir of one. But my question is can you get choir of one with out all the bs involved with the exotic mission because if so, fuck I wasted time lol but my biggest problem with the game is actually the players, I've never raided in d2 because I don't have a fireteam and people are toxic as he'll if you don't know the raid
@chrismetalwilson2588 Describing Encore: Overture as "...all the bs involved..." is part of how crafting ruined things. It's an exotic mission in a well designed location with difficulty above the bottom of the barrel and secrets to reward engagement and exploration with the mission. That's a good thing. But since it's got a little bit of resistance, and isn't just doing patrol level content once a week then standing in front of a vendor, people complain. It sucks when you don't have time to play, I understand that. People have jobs and lives and responsibilities to deal with. I absolutely get that. But when you introduce a core mechanic that interacts with every single facet of this game and expedites the act of doing the loot chase, the core point of loot based games, it creates the situation that we're in now. I'm glad you're having fun, genuinely I am. I'm having fun too. But we're hemorrhaging players. And have been slowly draining them over time despite how many things bungie introduces to remove the work required for the cool shit. The players suck and have forever. But there are tools you can utilize to combat that toxicity. The in-game group finder has options for flagging your post as somebody who doesn't know and would like to learn the raid. There are many people who love to teach within the community, entire discords for new players to get their first "hard" piece of content completed, and countless resources that just straight up tell you what to do and how to do it if you're still confused. Datto's success is entirely built around raid and dungeon guides.
@bloodelf941 damn... well spoken and you have opened my eyes as I do love doing the new exotic mission. And I hope more mission in the future go that route. Also the fireteam finder is something I haven't tried yet, I'll have to do that one day when I get the balls lol. But I did enjoy your video and look forward to more eye opening content 😊
@fransonferguson2979 streamers aren't a monolith. They're people with varying opinions, and those opinions can change over time based on new information or context.
So real. I think the answer is to light-cap crafted gear, so that it only feels good in PvP, or baby PvE content. Basically Semi-Sunset it, but just enough to make it deal 15%-20% less dmg in Raids, Dungeons, GM's. This way Unc can come back from work, play his two games of seasonal content with a gun with cool perks, then hop off. And the rest of us get Endgame Gear to use in th Endgame Content we engage in.
@glowiboi maybe, but realistically, all that does is tweak numbers, and I think the difficulty problem goes deeper than the raw numbers behind damage output and resistance.
I was making a Runescape account when I was like 13, and I wanted some numbers so I went to the num pad and just typed. There's no significance at all lol
It's a double edged sword to make the loot "chase" the core loop imo because it inevitably leads to this point of "im done, bye". Getting everything and the right roll becomes a matter of completion. Even when experiencing raids in their best form with friends, if your buddy was "done" after *getting* Touch of Malice, then the actual reward itself didn't even matter. It inevitably became a case of "get everything from raid, done". Crafting is simply the games pity system and i feel like it's just highlighted the greater reprocussions of Destiny being EXTREMELY dependent on the loot chase as the reason to even bother playing, as opposed to well, fun and doing (hard) things with friends.
there's a thread to pull at within your comment, I do agree that the dependence on loot at it's core causes issues. But we're in a live service model, that concern is assuaged by new stuff to chase theoretically. The new stuff not mattering is the problem that then rears it's head. In a perfect scenario crafting would have been kept in control and the game would have increased in challenge alongside us to compensate for just how deadly we've become. I want to do power creep it's due at some point, I just don't raid anymore so I didn't think I've got enough experience to talk about in an informed way. Small contention about "get everything from raid, done" meaning the reward didn't matter, playing for the checklist is something I enjoy doing and perfectly valid (not that I think your comment said that or implied it, i'm just autism picking at a point I want to because it brings up another one lmao). Now the content should be engaging enough for the checklist to keep your interest beyond just chasing to chase, and there's something to be said that Destiny has a mild lack of that type of content, but with how the community reacts to depth or complexity it just isn't worth it for the devs to spend time on introducing content that less than 10% of the community will engage with, despite being the thing I believe this game needs more of desperately.
LOL... first the mayority of players complained about the poor rewards on weapon rolls... Bungie proceeds to give you a great alternative... players still complain. And those are the same people who rides Bungie hard. In my opinion having a choice for both athat aren't okay with it and those who are okay with it is just great!!! Why don't you just forget about crafting exists and keep grinding for that roll you want? once you get it your ego will be elevated right!!! leave it alone and go on with your life. Simple as that!
I beg to differ on crafted weopons breaking the game. Yes they are good but usually push you to get a better roll. I believe the indebted Kindness is flat out better for add clear and has good perks. The call gets lead from gold but really isn't great at add clear AOE. Aberrant is great at add clear and has good perks but lacks lead from gold. So it's second in quality to me. Can easily run double special with lead from gold voltshot and I don't even use finder or reserve mods. I agree crafted weopons are good but usually have harder grinds in dungeons or raids to get patterns for truly the best weopons. So it's rewarding to be able to create a weopon you have grinded for and a lot of people don't like to necessarily do. They settle for the mediocre crafted season weopons. Getting a perfect roll and enhancing it is were I find the true weopon loot is.
@jasonestrada8670 I disagree on pushing to get a better roll. Crafted weapons have the potential to be perfect. Nobody cares about a drop unless it's got a red border on it. And once you've got your five patterns, there's nothing to chase anymore. There is nothing to get excited about. My bringing up of the rocket sidearm was to demonstrate that the power disparity between them does not translate to playing the game. Sure, Indebted has that specific roll, but The Call and Aberrant will kill just as good as Indebted with their god rolls and won't require nearly as much playtime or effort to obtain. Like getting a 90% on a test you didn't study for (The Call/Aberrant) vs a 95% on one that you did (Indebted) when you only need a 50% to pass (Any gun because this game is piss easy if you think about what you're doing and why for 5 seconds)
@Blanktester685 I disagree, Lead is exceedingly ammo efficient and frees up mod slots for other things I'd prefer to have instead. Much less down time without having to think about it
Agreed. As soon as players gained the entitlement of needing the best roll of every weapon, and bungie caved to give crafting, the loot chase fantasy went away. Back in the day of D1, the perspective was “wow that person has a great roll of that weapon; how and where can I get it? I hope I get something good myself! If not, it was fun trying” Sometimes you just had to accept that some people would be lucky with a god roll of weapons and some people would not. That’s what contributed to a lot of interest for me in this game. I farmed the final boss of grasp of avarice over 130 times for the pvp god roll of eyasluna and I was pumped when I got it. I still play a lot and I hope they can get the loot chase in a good spot. Personally a fan of: maybe double perks on drops with the ability to enhance the perks if you get what you want.
Idk, entitlement isn't what I'd describe it as. But it's probably the best word to use. Getting cool shit should be the reward for investing time and effort, not just something to be handed out if the game you're playing has the chase as the point of play What's even crazier is that crafting on its own isn't bad. Its just everything surrounding it, how many things it effects, and how little they want players to invest for God tier gear is more a problem.
Bro, your right. Crafting fucking sucks. On another note... transcendence needs to be removed. So does 1,2 punch. So does consecration. Bring back warmind CELLS.
@anonymousanonymous-nt8ls a little harsh but I like the energy. Warmind Cells specifically. Fun interactions and lots of potential if you get away from just raw damage.
Let me just put something in perspective. People who think crafting is bad do not understand math. Let’s say there are only 5 options per slot (Barrel, Mag, Trait 1, Trait 2, Masterwork). Most guns have way more than this but let’s say it’s only five. Your chances of any specific drop being your 5/5 godroll are 0.03%. Or in other words, you need on average 3,333 drops of the weapon. And this is not activity completions, as any specific weapon is usually not guaranteed per completion. This is simply absurd. I understand wanting a loot chase, but Destiny’s perk system is just not very compatible with full RNG. It is way too much. Look through your godrolls before crafted. You 100% compromised on a barrel, mag, or masterwork, because dropping a 5/5 in this game is a statistical impossibility. I never wanna go back to the hell that was Bottom Dollar grind. As for how you calculate that, you take the chances of any particular slot (1/5) and multiply it for each slot you have to roll another specific perk, so (1/5)^5. Then multiply this by 100 and you have your percentage chance. Do this for weapons with 10 traits per column then tell me you think that grind is realistic for anyone.
@terribletimes902 if you look around at all the other comments I've gotten, I very much do want to engage. I just want to make sure I'm not being racist when I respond dismissively in kind.
@@bloodelf941You already did that. Not sure what it is about my grammar or spelling that leads you to believe English isn’t my first language. I can’t call you racist cause you don’t know what I look like, but I’m guessing you definitely don’t picture me as being white for whatever weird reason you came up with. You also only respond defensively to people who disagree with you. That’s not engaging with the topic. You just want an echo chamber.
@terribletimes902 your grammar was fine. No spelling errors that I noticed. That's not why I ask. I dont care what the color of your skin is. I ask because you seem unable to read or interpret what I'm saying. If I wanted an echo chamber, I'd delete comments that disagreed with me. There are multiple comment threads of me going back and forth respectfully with people who disagree with my take. I'm being dismissive because you're starting your disagreement by saying that I don't understand math. I get math. Math isn't the problem. It's where we are now and how pervasive crafting is. It has entirely replaced the chase with menu loot, plus the power creep issues that devalued playing the game at all, in favor of just sitting in a menu once a week.
Currently watching, and ill say D2 sucks. D1 is fun to grind for god rolls from strikes and tier 12 gear....D2 starting new players at 1900 light is insane. I spent about 250 for all the D2 content and I uninstalled the game. They fumbled D2 in the craziest of ways in my opinion. 😊
@@bloodelf941 guess I'd know that if I wasn't so disgruntled behind the development decisions of one of the best games in years and forced to run away for my own sanity
fair enough I guess, think that's more on you then D2 but you're absolutely allowed to have that opinion. Destiny 2 does have an approachability issue, but imo the same problems exist in the first game. Being there from the start helps immensely though so idk
@senate2674 I really think it just needs to be reined in. Like no raid weapons, limit it to weapons that perform specific functions with their "God roll", that exist as a fantastic fall back but not a Best in Slot option. But I just don't see how we get there from where we are. I like the delay thing they mentioned in the articles they put out though. Good step in the right direction. Treat crafting like a catch up mechanic
![Quando Rondo - Grow Up [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/8zFnCg3BO4Q/mqdefault.jpg)
Bungie just released 5 articles going over the future of Destiny the day before this goes live. It's too late for me to edit the video at this point to address that unfortunately. But the future isn't as uncertain as it appeared to be previously. There's still lots of unknowns and concerns but they do mention that crafting should not replace the loot chase and that's really important to me. Just addressing a potential issue that came about due to timing on my part lol
I dunno man, I kinda like not having to go back and grind old content as new content comes out because I feel I don't get rewarded enough for the amount of time I put into some of these raids/dungeons to get the roll I want for all 4 slots. I'd feel too overwhelmed with all the other content. Plus, if that were the case, imo it would be easier to find people to farm stuff in dungeons. Ive noticed people just move on quick and if you dont have the time to complete it right when it comes out then people are just burned out quick because they either dont like it or already done it for the week. I just can't relate to this at all. I still love VOW for the music, I love SE for the thrill of final battles. There's just some content I want to get through and move on, Like fkn GotD.
@@ryeuhnbrus8287 That's partly what I'm saying. People move on so quickly because there's no reason to stay around. There's merit in feeling unrewarded from your time investment due to not having any functional reward, I just don't like how crafting has replaced playing the game.
@bloodelf941 Yea, there's merit, but I don't feel it. Lol I guess I'm just wired different. I'd rather play with weapons that I can craft and be proud of rather than weapons I'm just like, well, RNG said this is good enough after 30 solid runs.
@ryeuhnbrus8287 I'm saying your argument has merit lol, poor wording on my part.
Fair enough either way. Thanks for your time
@bloodelf941 Can't help how you feel. Can't be mad that some people feel differently. I just know after 10 years of playing this game I still love it enough to keep playing and kill new stuff with my fully crafted Forbearance. 🤣
Crafting is actually the best thing destiny ever added to the game. It put the loot focus to red boarders and activity specific loot. Which was a significant time saver/optimizer. It also allowed players to EXPERIMENT with different roll combinations by reshaping the weapon. Which incentives material farming.
The problem isn’t crafting. The problem is bungie not updating the loot pool for older ritual activities, how horrible the rng is and bungie killing our loot optimizations. Crafting isn’t responsible for poor player numbers. It’s bungie killing the various optimized loot grinds players have found like getting 2 exotic class items from the dual destiny dungeon or opening chests in the landing for exotic CI drops WITHOUT A VIABLE ALTERNATIVE. The problem with modern destiny is the majority of the activities are pointless to run because the loot SUCKS outside of the activities relevant to the current season/episode. So as soon as players run said activities and players get their desired drops they have no reason to play.
@U4ia28 Activity specific loot was always important though? And we agree about the end result? I'm confused by this comment.
Nah crafting is definitely the problem bud
The issue isn't that they mitigated the grind. The issue is that the grind is mundane. There is still a sort of grind for red borders. But as an adult with a job and a life outside the game (I dont have 17 kids and 10 jobs and 3 wives or whatever the meme was), getting a group of my friends together to grind the same boring content, or grind out raids and dungeons until they become boring content, is next to impossible. For the people who are now Destiny lifers who do nothing with their spare time but play Destiny, maybe crafting did ruin everything. But for the majority of us who are consistently burnt out after 10 years of the same boring content, crafting is a great way to get in and get things done so I can move on to other games.
Well that's the problem, right? Everyone plays for the first week of a content drop then moves on to other games when they would otherwise spend more time in the game "having fun" grinding for god rolls. But what would actually happen is in the short term you would have higher player retention. Long term people will get burnt out and quit the game outright. I can say from my experience (and my friends in my clan as well) that if I had to grind out god rolls, I would quit playing.
If the god roll grind is boring and takes too long, I give up on the grind for the god roll, having a vault full of boring rolls. No incandescent heal clip rolls... I'll settle for boring old beacon snap shot, because that's the best my RNG could muster. Now the gameplay and grind are significantly more boring because I can't blow up enemies and watch the fireworks show. So the crafting system made for better player retention long term. What has actually ruined everything is Bungie's inability to keep players interested in the grind. They have done nothing to keep the old game modes fresh (crucible, strikes, dungeons, RIP gambit), and have added very few new game modes that aren't just more of the same... kill waves of enemies, pick up thing they drop, throw/dunk thing, rinse and repeat. If they don't add new, fresh, fun content nothing will bring players back.
@cantonphantom Onslaught and the Shiny weapon variants having as much success as they did at keeping players invested disagrees with your claim. It was a very basic horde mode with limited enemy meshes, but it kept people happy with something to chase for a while.
While I agree that the game's pretty much had the same mechanics as always just with different flavors or slants, anytime they add more mechanics to increase depth, people get pissed.
If you don't want to play the game them don't play the game, but crafting expedited the timeline for those that do in a way that nothing else did. On top of completely devaluing loot overall.
@@bloodelf941 Onslaught was exactly what I was referring to as one of the few modes they've added that has been somewhat successful. So idk how that disagrees with my claim. Menagerie and Dares also come to mind. The problem is that those modes grow stale very quickly. There's very little variety to them. The grind for the weapons becomes mundane. Onslaught did very little for player retention as it kind of died before the end of the season and still gets some action, but nobody's talking about it like it saved the game. The reason being, its more of the same (Forge but longer). The few people that are still playing it aren't doing it because the weapon grind is fun.
But I am curious as to what mechanics they've added that were different and added depth that people got pissed about. I can't think of one. Destiny fans haven't gotten pissed about new mechanics unless they were the same kill, dunk, repeat mechanics with a different shape.
And I do want to play the game. I'm all for a grind if the grind is fun. If the core of the game was grinding fun activities that kept the players interested for more than just "I have to get the god roll that will be obsolete next season," then I would be on your side with crafting. But since the game grows stale within a week or two of every season/episode, I want the game to respect my time. And unfortunately for the people who ONLY play Destiny, crafting has to be a thing for the long term retention of players.
And I'll throw this right back at you... If you don't like crafting and want to grind for rolls, you still can. Maybe you don't get the enhanced perks that add small increases to the perks, But you don't have to craft. You choose to. People didn't stop playing because the loot grind got cut down. They stopped playing because the activities are boring.
I meant the proverbial you when I said that, my bad. Came off a little hostile with that one. Apologies.
I bring up Onslaught because it was very basic. Shoot enemies, throw batteries, kill boss, repeat. No new mechanics.
Dual Destiny comes to mind as an activity that people did not want to engage with and complained about. Maybe vocal reddit gamers more than real people with brains, but that's a recent example. The current issue with that is more that people have gotten used to the activity and want to have the exact roll on the exotic, than the content itself being boring specifically. Not having any functional reward after investing time turns people off, no matter the quality of the content. We've gotten so conditioned to having the dopamine hit from the end chest that when you get blue balled by not giving a shit about the gear, it breaks something. You're not satisfied. There's something there to pull at if I was smarter, live service models and loot pinatas leading to addiction or someshit, but I'm not intelligent enough to break down that in any way that I would feel comfortable doing lmao.
A less recent example is how people do not like Battlegrounds and prefer the lower intensity strikes for Nightfalls. But that leads to my next point.
Playlists growing stale is absolutely a factor, I still find fun in doing the repetitive stuff because I'm doing something else at the same time or working on creating something and the raw gunplay feels as amazing as ever because Bungie's combat team are wizards, but the variety of content is lacking. I just don't know what the devs could do. When the drop off in player engagement as you climb the difficulty ladder is as drastic as Destiny's why bother investing in challenging the player or making them use their brain beyond clicking on the bad guys? Game dev takes money and time. If nobody does the thing, why bother spending it?
But then that gets into how difficulty functions in Destiny, how numbers shifts are boring and cheap, many more paragraphs of hyper-fixation that putting in a RUclips comment section would not do justice lmao.
I do want to say that choosing to craft is technically true, but an argument that I really do not enjoy.
Yes you chose the buttons that you press, and it is ultimately my decision to engage with whatever mechanics that exist in whatever way I see fit. But it's a core part of the game that touches EVERYTHING, it's like saying you don't have to use ashes of war in Elden Ring. Yeah I don't HAVE to, but then I wouldn't be playing Elden Ring. There's probably a better example somewhere but I can't think of it right now lol
@@bloodelf941 Well said. I think overall we agree that the core gameplay is flawed. That's the root of my point that crafting didn't ruin Destiny. If any thing crafting is more of a side effect to the redundant gameplay. Crafting is a bandaid on the gunshot wound that is Destiny's gameplay loop. If the activities were fun, crafting wouldn't be necessary. And I think the perfect example of that is Dungeon loot. Dungeons are fun and almost universally praised by the community. And we are willing to farm the dungeons weekly for the loot, hoping for the god roll. But fewer people enjoy repeating the same 3 battlegrounds in the same way as they do dungeons, therefore crafting feels like a necessity for that loot.
On another note, I don't know anyone who complained about the actual mechanics of Dual Destiny. Maybe that's just me and my clan. We all loved the mechanics... grinding it over and over and getting some combination of the same 4 perks 12 times in a row wasn't fun. And the battlegrounds are little more than a VERY slightly different take on strikes, so I wouldn't say that Battlegrounds shook up the formula or added any new mechanics for people to complain about. It falls into that category that I mentioned about people complaining that its just more of the same.
@cantonphantom all of what you say has merit, and I agree with, to various extents per point, I think I just put the weight more so at the feet of crafting than the rest of the game.
On people not liking things, I saw quite a few tweets and reddit comments complaining about Dual Destiny requiring 2 people and how awful it is to have to talk to people and communicate. Granted, I do search this shit out so maybe that's on me for having a confirmation bias. I've also got a video, the first "real one" I've made since I started doing this shit regularly that had a myriad of comments from people who did not want to raid because it's too hard. I've got a large amount of very much anecdotal experience with people not wanting to be challenged. But as it is anecdotal, I can only speak to my own perception.
Good back and forth, Thanks for your time
Walt, i dont know man... Bungie knows their audience, and the "loot chase" is an archaic old thing that is outdated: Having to run RNG on top of RNG to get proper weapons to do endgame activities doesnt intice many players and makes them leave faster.
People want to just get into the endgame content and be competitive with other players and thats understandable. RNG is not enjoyable to 90% of players.
And with an ever changing sandbox, something you grinded 50 runs for over several months because it's good, by the time you actually get it it's probably not good anymore and thus the drop is not satisfying.
I dare say having to play Destiny less is nothing but a good thing? Repetition creates apathy, and Destiny is 90% subpar if not bad content that most players don't want to be grinding for the rest of their lives.
To pretend like crafting killed the player population is disingenuous at best, the player population is leaving because the main story of the game is done, and there's nothing interesting for them. PvP players are leaving not because of crafting but because the sandbox and meta is awful to play. PvE players such as I take breaks because the game is fundamentally boring to play 90% of the time.
"Oh boy, I can't wait to play the same battlegrounds 70 fucking times today to hopefully get a good roll on a weapon that will be powercrept next season and has 12 perks in each column!!"
Crafting was a correct decision, if the only thing that keeps you playing is chasing items and not the actual gameplay, then the problem is the gameplay.
I myself still play content when I have what I want when the content itself is enjoyable (Spire of the Watcher bangs)
I do agree that Destiny 3 shouldve been the next thing: we can drop old console support, make new and improved systems, and create a new narrative because the writing is pretty much all flawed, etc.
Interesting watch nonetheless
@Guyy_1 Appreciate it, there's a couple of things I want to respond to, and if I come across as dismissive, I apologize. That's not my intention.
I do acknowledge the end of the saga being a large factor to the player population leaving. In fact, I mention that I think not enough people are recognizing that fact.
Whether or not we agree about the loot chase being outdated, it doesn't matter. Games like Diablo exist and remain profitable solely due to that loot chase. Seeing the cool item drop is still exciting and addicting, no matter how predatory it is, and trains people to become dependent on the source of that drop.
The quality of the content on offer is important, I agree. If you're apathetic and don't care, then you shouldn't be playing. Those are separate factors, though, to what I believe the largest one is that affects everybody, and that is crafting.
Every game is on a timer from the minute you launch it, right? How long until you close it for the last time for whatever reason. Crafting shortens that timer, more than any other factor for every single kind of player. That end point where you've done everything you care about and gotten everything you want will be arriving that much shorter for everybody. Hard-core players, casual players, checklist enthusiasts, etc. No matter how good the content, they will walk away and be done. We see that with raid statistics mainly. There's such a small number of people who have ever completed a single raid that it's a miracle we ever got another one beyond VoG.
Yes, the content's gotta be fun. That is very, VERY important, but if there's nothing to chase, this community doesn't care. You know there's still secrets in the dreaming city that I have done that there aren't guides for (I haven't looked in a while, so there might be now) to this day since there's no triumph or a reward tied to? Cool little scavenger hunts. Little things to make the patrol space feel like a city lived in by the Awoken. Nobody cares.
Endgame tier gear doesn't translate to Best in Slot, some stuff is exceptional like Conditional Finality or Buried Bloodline. But mostly you can get a weapon that competes in challenge mode raiding from just doing patrol tier content. Not that you'd need to though since this game has just slowly over time had itself stripped of challenge to cater to people who don't want to play.
Idk there's so much. I appreciate your comment though. Sorry if the lack of coherence became too much to parse lol
@@bloodelf941 Good read, I'll admit I'm not the best person to comment on anything relating to a loot chase because I just find that stuff unengaging, similar to gambling in a sense
I do actually agree that destiny does need a loot chase but I also think that it can be unhealthy, on both sides. Year 1 D2 had both bad content and static loot rolls, completely killing any interest in the game, so there is serviceable evidence for your point and I acknowledge that.
I'm glad someone else recognizes that many people consider the game "done", Final Shape was essentially the last piece of content for most people, and that's understandable. However it's going to be nigh impossible for Bungie to get new impressions into the game without some form of extreme action like absurd powercreep (see Beyond Light and Final Shape, where the new Subclasses were intentionally overtuned to get people interested)
My personal belief is that similar to Fromsoftware with difficulty, Bungie is in an arms race with itself, the game is fundamentally uninteresting to people: that's why they stop playing when they get their gear (this applies to pre crafting too, see the post Forsaken and Beyond Light player drop offs)
So how does Bungie get new players? New overpowered gear, easier to access content, easy instant gratification etc.
As for difficulty I don't really agree with most people on difficulty in the game, I think that the easier stuff like GMs get the better, the slow plink plink scout rifle gameplay from Beyond Light was not enjoyable to anyone I'd imagine. I think Raids are good on difficulty, however I think base Raids aren't up to the standard Contest mode sets up, which is why Master exists, however Master Raids don't give enough of an incentive to do for most players and as you said most people don't do Raids anyway.
Personally, if I were to remove crafting from one thing, it would be raids, and have the Enhanced Adepts are the gear that players of upper skill levels will spend their time on.
Also yeah I think the loot chase in general is really flawed, more often than not Raid and Dungeon gear gets out paced by regular Seasonal and World drop gear, it's been 10 years and Bungie still can't figure out a proper hierarchy for loot.
Also see Borderlands for a good loot chase, I'm personally not that much of a fan but Borderlands 2 still has a healthy player base after a decade or so because the players just like the game
@Guyy_1 genuinely loved this comment. Bringing up Fromsoft in discussion of difficulty and acknowledging the arms race? Fuck yes 100% agree.
Borderlands as a good example of a loot chase as well. Pinatas with many chances, bosses without time gates, and loot that matters, world drops potentially giving you what you need, etc. Full agreement as well.
God this is fun.
@@bloodelf941 Glad to have an honest discussion! The Fromsoft thing is something that I think very few people acknowledge, and I think it's harming their games (mainly Elden Ring), but that's a topic for another day. Whenever you do try to discuss it you get the same responses from turtling fans about how you need to get gud and so and so meanwhile I've mastered the systems I'm complaining about.
Here's hoping Destiny gets better, whether it's with more or less crafting, I just want to have fun and help people have fun.
Crafting only ruins the game if you play the game for a living and have time to grind for the weapons through the mind numbing grind. I am still trying to get red borders for 3 weapons for SE but I only get to do it at most once a week on one character. I am still trying to get rolls on guns that came into the game 3-4 seasons ago. I also have yet to get the roll on things from VOG and got sick of it after 100+ runs. Crafting has nothing to do with the reason player count has dropped. Look at all the lies they have told us look at all the screw up they have made. There are still thing in Pale Heart people can't complete cause they are bugged. They need to make the game fun to play again. That is the issue. Every friend that has quit have said they have killed the game with changes making things harder and things aren't fun anymore.
@littleman350 "killed the game with changes making things harder"
My guy, Destiny 2, is not a difficult video game. It has been stripped of challenge to cater to people with your mentality, and longevity has died with it.
Does my channel look like I play this game for a living? Does my production quality indicate that this is my job? I'm a fan who has seen the writing on the wall since the inception of crafting, we are just now at the end point that I've been warning about for years.
Please, I beg you, think critically, and stop regurgitating Reddit opinions.
@bloodelf941 adepts?
@@ryeuhnbrus8287 what about them?
@@bloodelf941 I mean, those are kinda grindy, right? Harder content for better weapons? I always thought adept was stronger than crafted.
@ryeuhnbrus8287 the power disparity between a perfect crafted weapon and a perfect adept is convenience if you want to swap between 2 perk options. Otherwise a crafted weapon does as good, if not better, than an adept version depending on the weapon in question.
What really matters as far as Adepts are concerned, is whether or not you even need a better version. You can only kill things so much dead. 1k damage does the same as 1.2k damage if the target only has 800 hp, if that makes sense?
The curse of instant gratification. You get the shiny toy only to not appreciate it and subsequently put said gun into the vault with all the other items that never get used.
Power creep plus no chase leads to exactly this
@@bloodelf941 the core of Destiny had always been the chase, not just the loot itself. It feels like Bungie seemingly forgot that the game needs both to succeed and just decided, screw it let’s give everybody no reason to run things more than a handful of times. Mind you the game depends on players running things multiple times per week yet after a month we have everything unlocked.
Inflated game time due to grind does not a good game make. If the only reason to do the thing is the get another hit on the slot machine, the thing isn't fun anymore.
For me, I played tons of D1 when there was "nothing to do" because I enjoyed the PvP. I used to play tons of D2 PvP when there was "nothing to do" because I enjoyed it... but over time, neglect (PvP content, PvP balance, cheating) made PvP miserable for me. I stopped PvPing for fun, I PvE what I must and close the game.
@WCMaxi I mean, yeah, that's a massive part of it. But that slot machine works for a reason. Diablo is a massively profitable franchise that exists solely due to the slot machine's hold on people since there are other better ARPGs out there. But it's also super predatory.
Content's gotta be good too, not just the reward. But Destiny players don't play content that isn't rewarding, no matter how fun it is. Expediting the process hurts more than helps, is all.
I do feel you on pvp being the "nothing to do" content, and the neglect sucks.
Yeah i kinda agree with this. Crafting has made the loot drops feel worse than ever for me personally. Im not sure what can be done other than either a full reset or slowly making crafted weapons have a lower stat total than non crafted weapons. Maybe more unique perk sets, but a non craftable weapon should have higher totals in average.
Also i want them to make like... half of the raid weapons in a raid craftable. Keeping all of them craftable is kinda bad for long-term engagement as you mentioned in the video.
Not many people in the player base have time to run raids 1000 times to to get the perfect drop either . So crafting can stay maybe limit it or require more red boarders etc
@@fransonferguson2979 that doesn't fix the problem
Crafting has destroyed the replayability of raids. I got my salvations edge red borders and exotic and then havent touched it since. And i think its one of the best raids in the game! That makes me sad
Makes you sad?? Maybe go out?? Get some sunlight? Take a shower? Talk to "Real people" you know not the defenders of "light"
The only people who have a problem with crafting are the ones who do nothing besides play this game all day long🤡
@@shubhamstark8 are you 5 years old?
Considering how long it takes to grind red borders even while doing something like cheesing Kali, I’m pretty sure you played it some 100 times. Saying an activity that has to be replayed that much has zero replayability is crazy. You need some perspective lol
@@terribletimes902 fairly certain that math does not add up
@@bloodelf941 is that the best excuse you could come up with it to cope? Just admit you don't have a life and look it's not bad but making a video crying about it oh god that's another level of miserable
I mean if grinding destiny day and night is what helps you sleep at night go for it
Other people have lives you know a family a spouse that loves them something you've probably never heard of
Crafting is bad with the way it is implemented. IMOP its good that we dont have to grind for thd god roll constantly, but it would be wayyyyyyyy better if the best of the best equipment was non crafted(like adepts but better, maybe more stat bumps or another mod slot idfk) just something that is s genuind motivation to pursue that god roll instead of “oh i got my last red border, no more fun times ig”
The amount of people "maybe dont no life the game" people you get is crazy lol its almost like they cant see the otherside if the fence player experience-wise 😅
Hood luck out there man
@revyrev28 I appreciate it, lol. I should probably dial it back and not respond to every comment, but I'm having so much fun with this.
I've gotten some very good back and forth discussions from people who disagree but can see the other side or approach it from an angle I hadn't thought about. Despite the overwhelmingly negative reputation, sometimes the RUclips comment section has some people with a brain.
Every comment, positive or negative, is engagement, and these jackasses who think I'm getting owned are only boosting my content that much more per interaction. It's hilarious.
Wonderful video. Very much in agreement with what you had to say. One of the only people left in my clan who plays regularly. I have/will have to solo or lfg gms just to clear them now. My friends play less and I’m stuck in a weird spot between extremely hardcore and the good but not great spot where I can find a new good group for me. I have a couple day 1’s with the boys and that was fun, but red borders murder some of my friends interest in the game, and now finding a new group will be difficult. But yeah, this game made some decisions that took out the grinding. Grinding for timelost fatebringer was fun, short, and didn’t eat your time because it dropped more perks than just 1 in all the columns
Edit: I would like to add I’m not against crafting, but they made way too many things craftable/enhanceable
I wouldn't mind raid loot being craftable if it was obtained from master level content. It brings people to a loot chase at harder content, perhaps making it need more patterns, do some triumphs forv seal, etc. validate peoples committment to harder content...
I’m fine with crafting being applicable for less weapons but the grind eventually gets tiring for players. Because of massive perk pools even getting the 2 perks you want is frustrating in longer activities for players who are more attracted to the gameplay of destiny 2 than the looter shooter aspect. Maybe adding stronger loot that can’t be crafted while still having crafted weapons that have somewhat less powerful perks help?
I just want to have the option to get good weapons(not the best) without grinding for an unholy amount of time.
@nethisnotar9175 I'll give you that. I very much agree. But the system we have now just completely replaced any hunt with crafting and that's feels like shit.
I understand your view point and at the same time I don't agree in the slightest. If not for the crafting I would've dropped the game a couple years ago. I don't find it fun in any capacity to chase some 0.01% chance of getting a weapon I actually want. That's a casino. The situation is even worse when they mix looks and functionality in the same space of randomness (aka “shiny” guns). The lack of crafting was the sole reason I didn't engage with Into the Light content beyond finishing my seal.
At the same time, I completely agree, that the current implementation of the system is bad for replayability. What's really interesting is that Bungie are now standing at the crossroad between one flavor of shit and another. If they remove crafting or make it way less impactful someone like me basically quits the game or at least disengages from loot chasing-I'll be doing my seals and flawlesses and be on my way to play some single player games. My playtime will be even less than now, because acquiring patterns takes more time than zero and I'm confident that exotics and all the previous raid weapons will be enough for pretty much anything in the future.
If they don't do anything with crafting at all-they are hurting and alienating people like yourself. Well… don't want to be Bungie in this situation =)
@teriantroch I really think crafting should have been kept in check from the start. On it's own, it isn't a bad idea. A way to combat rng, but I think the weapons should have been perfectly acceptable and not Best in Slot options. You get your patterns for the baseline gear to get yourself through the content that gets you the better stuff. Instead it has completely replaced the chase and allowed weapons from bottom of the barrel tier content to compete and surpass those from the highest tier.
@@bloodelf941 Maybe. Hard to say for me as crafting enjoyer. I can only state how things are now. Loot chase as it was… was a miserable experience.
Let's take your Indebted Kindness example. For someone like you it was a reason to play the game. For someone like me it was: “(1/6)^2=2.7% chance of getting Lead from Gold / Voltshot. Well, I guess I just keep the first semi-decent roll cause it's new archetype and never care about farming that gun again.”
And yes, you say “Well… people don't play now, do they?” and that's true but you don't take into the account that a lot of people return. If I know I can play the raid hard for a couple of months and get everything then I'll be there for the next one. If it's all random-well, doing my seal (which takes significantly less time) and I'm out with some strong consideration of returning at all.
I think it's unsolvable divide between people who want Destiny to be their “forever game” and people who want to enjoy the new content and go do something else until the next thing drops. As I said before-tough to be Bungie right now, quite a conundrum.
@teriantroch Fair points, it is going to be very interesting to see how Bungie plans on pulling it back a bit, if they end up committing to that path forward anyway. But that's game dev, shits hard.
Appreciate the comments. Very fun to go back and forth on things.
@@bloodelf941 Crafting isn't the problem, HOW they implemented it is.
Enhanced perks were a huge mistake and shouldn't exist. They invalidated random rolls completely. Even if you got your perfect 5/5 roll, you would delete it because the crafted version would be better.
Then there's how you unlocked the ability to craft a weapon. You get the ability to craft a weapon by acquiring a set number of uncommon to rare versions of it. What those rolls were was irrelevant, so long as they have a red border. Another thing making random rolls irrelevant.
A system that provided some inevitability to getting your ideal roll without completely invalidating random drops is what should have been implemented. So, if you got that perfect 5/5 roll the excitement would still be there.
@@Welverin isn't this better than a simplistic "no"? Because I actually agree with you.
I like weapon crafting, but I also get why you don't like it, maybe the way to balance it would be to me getting red borders harder to obtain?
As an example, raid weapons drop red border only in master, seasonal weapon from harder difficulty seasonal activity (if it has harder mode like it should), vanguard stuff in gm, crucible in high tier comp win etc. Of course then the problem would be that those who are bad are locked out, but imo that's fine.
I would like crafting to come to all weapons, at least those with huge perk pools. Im currently trying to get Origin Story with Strategist and Rampage, but my chances of getting are really low. Trait column 1 has 12 and so does Trait column 2. If the gun only drops with 1 perk from both my chances are 0.69% if I do not care about about masterwork and it drop with 2 traits on both columns. I would gladly do gm nf to get this gun with red borders, but I have to pray for rng.
Getting that 0.69% god roll would make me happy for a moment but I would rather earn it from difficult activities rather than do boring easy grind for it.
Anyways good video, bit ranty, but i understand why.
@nkoxi appreciate it, I think there's a happy medium but if we required more patterns it'd be the worst of both worlds imo. The same problems persist, just pushed further out
peak music choice, title themes don't always go as hard as unless chris does them
Technically, crafting makes Bungie develop and balance content easier; just think about it, you'll be balancing a new raid based on players that would have a shot at having a Day 1 clear, who wikk more than likely have the crafted god roll of all meta weapons (Apex, Cataclysmic, Commemoration, The Call, Forbearance, etc etc)
But that's it, I MISS getting dropped god rolls, I miss the drops, the chance, the RNG, the fun of it, the injustice of it
Getting a red border drop isn't exciting, it's just a checkmark
@Sohelanthropus maybe? But you kinda expect certain pieces of gear to be in use even without crafting. It's an angle I didn't think about, but I don't know how much that matters when Bungie designs content
Risk of rain 2 music in the back ground makes me happy lol
I didn't want to use RoR music for the longest time because it's music that you really want to listen to and not have as backing you know? But fuck it, it rocks.
@@bloodelf941 fr
I think the problem is that the rewards stay the same from activity to activity. Whether I’m playing on legendary, or doing a master lost sector, or in a patrol zone, I’m gonna get the same kind of drops. The dungeons have some neat weapons, but the RNG really sucks. Who wants to grind out the same dungeon over and over? Crafting makes it more accessible
@shawnphillips4941 Well, that's literally untrue. Patrol zones access the world drop loot pool, master/expert lost sectors have a focused sliver of that loot pool depending on the day plus extra currencies, dungeons and raids have their own weapons and armor, etc.
Accessibility options are great, but when they replace the chase entirely, then it becomes a problem, and it has.
Weapon crafting did kill the longevity of the game in my opinion. I think a better option would be to have weapon rerolling at the gunsmith and just need materials to reroll as many times as you want. Of course theres alot more that can be done but its just an idea
@jjq1986 I want to stay away from vendor menus being the way to do things. The gear you get should be tied to gameplay, so there's a story there. An adventure to remember.
I really do not enjoy the way we get exotic armor nowadays where engrams just mean trips to Rahool and dismantling old stocked up consumables for glimmer. It's lame, boring, and I'm not playing the game at that point.
Crafting would be perfectly fine if they made more and better content. It doesn't matter what loot acquisition system they use if they release content so little at a time.
Also I am a pvp player and I am very thankful I get to almost completely ignore pve.
You are right but.... for casual players like myself thats played since d1, i have no time to grind and lately love the game. I play with my wife and daughter. Its fun family time. Also cafting only works if you already have that gun unlocked so you still have to be good enough to complete end game content
@chrismetalwilson2588 You don't have to be good enough to complete end game content, though. Most patterns are for seasonal weapons that only need you to log in and go to a menu once a week.
@bloodelf941 I agree but those bad ass weapons still elude me lol. Now here's a question I have the choir of one and have it crafted all the way because of the secret chest and all the bs involved with getting everything for choir of one. But my question is can you get choir of one with out all the bs involved with the exotic mission because if so, fuck I wasted time lol but my biggest problem with the game is actually the players, I've never raided in d2 because I don't have a fireteam and people are toxic as he'll if you don't know the raid
@chrismetalwilson2588 Describing Encore: Overture as "...all the bs involved..." is part of how crafting ruined things. It's an exotic mission in a well designed location with difficulty above the bottom of the barrel and secrets to reward engagement and exploration with the mission. That's a good thing. But since it's got a little bit of resistance, and isn't just doing patrol level content once a week then standing in front of a vendor, people complain.
It sucks when you don't have time to play, I understand that. People have jobs and lives and responsibilities to deal with. I absolutely get that. But when you introduce a core mechanic that interacts with every single facet of this game and expedites the act of doing the loot chase, the core point of loot based games, it creates the situation that we're in now.
I'm glad you're having fun, genuinely I am. I'm having fun too. But we're hemorrhaging players. And have been slowly draining them over time despite how many things bungie introduces to remove the work required for the cool shit.
The players suck and have forever. But there are tools you can utilize to combat that toxicity. The in-game group finder has options for flagging your post as somebody who doesn't know and would like to learn the raid. There are many people who love to teach within the community, entire discords for new players to get their first "hard" piece of content completed, and countless resources that just straight up tell you what to do and how to do it if you're still confused. Datto's success is entirely built around raid and dungeon guides.
@bloodelf941 damn... well spoken and you have opened my eyes as I do love doing the new exotic mission. And I hope more mission in the future go that route. Also the fireteam finder is something I haven't tried yet, I'll have to do that one day when I get the balls lol. But I did enjoy your video and look forward to more eye opening content 😊
I agree with you.
@@mattsmith9543 thanks
Holy Crap! This reminds me of the time i was the coach for the New England Patriots and Tom Brady crapped his pants!
Streamers cried for crafting because of the grind and players not playing ... now they cry because they got it
@fransonferguson2979 streamers aren't a monolith. They're people with varying opinions, and those opinions can change over time based on new information or context.
So real. I think the answer is to light-cap crafted gear, so that it only feels good in PvP, or baby PvE content.
Basically Semi-Sunset it, but just enough to make it deal 15%-20% less dmg in Raids, Dungeons, GM's.
This way Unc can come back from work, play his two games of seasonal content with a gun with cool perks, then hop off.
And the rest of us get Endgame Gear to use in th Endgame Content we engage in.
@glowiboi maybe, but realistically, all that does is tweak numbers, and I think the difficulty problem goes deeper than the raw numbers behind damage output and resistance.
Babe wake up! New Bloodelf941 video dropped!
Are u from Sarasota Florida? Why the 941
I was making a Runescape account when I was like 13, and I wanted some numbers so I went to the num pad and just typed. There's no significance at all lol
@@bloodelf941 o well you happened to pick my area code 😂
@@MikeJWilliams lmao
@@bloodelf941 subbed
Thanks!
It's a double edged sword to make the loot "chase" the core loop imo because it inevitably leads to this point of "im done, bye". Getting everything and the right roll becomes a matter of completion. Even when experiencing raids in their best form with friends, if your buddy was "done" after *getting* Touch of Malice, then the actual reward itself didn't even matter. It inevitably became a case of "get everything from raid, done".
Crafting is simply the games pity system and i feel like it's just highlighted the greater reprocussions of Destiny being EXTREMELY dependent on the loot chase as the reason to even bother playing, as opposed to well, fun and doing (hard) things with friends.
there's a thread to pull at within your comment, I do agree that the dependence on loot at it's core causes issues. But we're in a live service model, that concern is assuaged by new stuff to chase theoretically. The new stuff not mattering is the problem that then rears it's head. In a perfect scenario crafting would have been kept in control and the game would have increased in challenge alongside us to compensate for just how deadly we've become. I want to do power creep it's due at some point, I just don't raid anymore so I didn't think I've got enough experience to talk about in an informed way.
Small contention about "get everything from raid, done" meaning the reward didn't matter, playing for the checklist is something I enjoy doing and perfectly valid (not that I think your comment said that or implied it, i'm just autism picking at a point I want to because it brings up another one lmao). Now the content should be engaging enough for the checklist to keep your interest beyond just chasing to chase, and there's something to be said that Destiny has a mild lack of that type of content, but with how the community reacts to depth or complexity it just isn't worth it for the devs to spend time on introducing content that less than 10% of the community will engage with, despite being the thing I believe this game needs more of desperately.
LOL... first the mayority of players complained about the poor rewards on weapon rolls... Bungie proceeds to give you a great alternative... players still complain. And those are the same people who rides Bungie hard. In my opinion having a choice for both athat aren't okay with it and those who are okay with it is just great!!!
Why don't you just forget about crafting exists and keep grinding for that roll you want? once you get it your ego will be elevated right!!! leave it alone and go on with your life. Simple as that!
@hlecaros because it's a core mechanic. You literally cannot forget that it exists because everything is tied to it
I beg to differ on crafted weopons breaking the game. Yes they are good but usually push you to get a better roll. I believe the indebted Kindness is flat out better for add clear and has good perks. The call gets lead from gold but really isn't great at add clear AOE. Aberrant is great at add clear and has good perks but lacks lead from gold. So it's second in quality to me. Can easily run double special with lead from gold voltshot and I don't even use finder or reserve mods. I agree crafted weopons are good but usually have harder grinds in dungeons or raids to get patterns for truly the best weopons. So it's rewarding to be able to create a weopon you have grinded for and a lot of people don't like to necessarily do. They settle for the mediocre crafted season weopons. Getting a perfect roll and enhancing it is were I find the true weopon loot is.
@jasonestrada8670 I disagree on pushing to get a better roll. Crafted weapons have the potential to be perfect. Nobody cares about a drop unless it's got a red border on it. And once you've got your five patterns, there's nothing to chase anymore. There is nothing to get excited about.
My bringing up of the rocket sidearm was to demonstrate that the power disparity between them does not translate to playing the game.
Sure, Indebted has that specific roll, but The Call and Aberrant will kill just as good as Indebted with their god rolls and won't require nearly as much playtime or effort to obtain.
Like getting a 90% on a test you didn't study for (The Call/Aberrant) vs a 95% on one that you did (Indebted) when you only need a 50% to pass (Any gun because this game is piss easy if you think about what you're doing and why for 5 seconds)
Lead isn't that useful, abherrent action clears easily
@Blanktester685 I disagree, Lead is exceedingly ammo efficient and frees up mod slots for other things I'd prefer to have instead. Much less down time without having to think about it
@@bloodelf941 I definitely agree... I see your point now... Thankx!!!
@@jasonestrada8670 thank you for your time
Agreed. As soon as players gained the entitlement of needing the best roll of every weapon, and bungie caved to give crafting, the loot chase fantasy went away. Back in the day of D1, the perspective was “wow that person has a great roll of that weapon; how and where can I get it? I hope I get something good myself! If not, it was fun trying” Sometimes you just had to accept that some people would be lucky with a god roll of weapons and some people would not. That’s what contributed to a lot of interest for me in this game. I farmed the final boss of grasp of avarice over 130 times for the pvp god roll of eyasluna and I was pumped when I got it. I still play a lot and I hope they can get the loot chase in a good spot. Personally a fan of: maybe double perks on drops with the ability to enhance the perks if you get what you want.
Idk, entitlement isn't what I'd describe it as. But it's probably the best word to use. Getting cool shit should be the reward for investing time and effort, not just something to be handed out if the game you're playing has the chase as the point of play
What's even crazier is that crafting on its own isn't bad. Its just everything surrounding it, how many things it effects, and how little they want players to invest for God tier gear is more a problem.
Bro, your right. Crafting fucking sucks. On another note... transcendence needs to be removed. So does 1,2 punch. So does consecration. Bring back warmind CELLS.
@anonymousanonymous-nt8ls a little harsh but I like the energy. Warmind Cells specifically. Fun interactions and lots of potential if you get away from just raw damage.
L take since bungie already addressed the new updates coming
Did you even look at the pinned comment?
Entertaining video thanks for making it
@@tomekk.1889 thanks
Let me just put something in perspective. People who think crafting is bad do not understand math.
Let’s say there are only 5 options per slot (Barrel, Mag, Trait 1, Trait 2, Masterwork). Most guns have way more than this but let’s say it’s only five.
Your chances of any specific drop being your 5/5 godroll are 0.03%. Or in other words, you need on average 3,333 drops of the weapon. And this is not activity completions, as any specific weapon is usually not guaranteed per completion.
This is simply absurd. I understand wanting a loot chase, but Destiny’s perk system is just not very compatible with full RNG. It is way too much. Look through your godrolls before crafted. You 100% compromised on a barrel, mag, or masterwork, because dropping a 5/5 in this game is a statistical impossibility.
I never wanna go back to the hell that was Bottom Dollar grind.
As for how you calculate that, you take the chances of any particular slot (1/5) and multiply it for each slot you have to roll another specific perk, so (1/5)^5. Then multiply this by 100 and you have your percentage chance. Do this for weapons with 10 traits per column then tell me you think that grind is realistic for anyone.
@@terribletimes902 was English your first language?
@@bloodelf941so you don’t actually wanna engage with this topic. Got it. Your video is useless then.
@terribletimes902 if you look around at all the other comments I've gotten, I very much do want to engage. I just want to make sure I'm not being racist when I respond dismissively in kind.
@@bloodelf941You already did that. Not sure what it is about my grammar or spelling that leads you to believe English isn’t my first language. I can’t call you racist cause you don’t know what I look like, but I’m guessing you definitely don’t picture me as being white for whatever weird reason you came up with.
You also only respond defensively to people who disagree with you. That’s not engaging with the topic. You just want an echo chamber.
@terribletimes902 your grammar was fine. No spelling errors that I noticed. That's not why I ask. I dont care what the color of your skin is. I ask because you seem unable to read or interpret what I'm saying.
If I wanted an echo chamber, I'd delete comments that disagreed with me. There are multiple comment threads of me going back and forth respectfully with people who disagree with my take.
I'm being dismissive because you're starting your disagreement by saying that I don't understand math. I get math. Math isn't the problem. It's where we are now and how pervasive crafting is. It has entirely replaced the chase with menu loot, plus the power creep issues that devalued playing the game at all, in favor of just sitting in a menu once a week.
Bungie ruined destiny.
No.
@@Welverin Yes
Currently watching, and ill say D2 sucks. D1 is fun to grind for god rolls from strikes and tier 12 gear....D2 starting new players at 1900 light is insane. I spent about 250 for all the D2 content and I uninstalled the game. They fumbled D2 in the craziest of ways in my opinion. 😊
1900 is a baseline. It's not like they skipped you ahead 1900 levels. It's just an indicator.
@@bloodelf941 guess I'd know that if I wasn't so disgruntled behind the development decisions of one of the best games in years and forced to run away for my own sanity
fair enough I guess, think that's more on you then D2 but you're absolutely allowed to have that opinion. Destiny 2 does have an approachability issue, but imo the same problems exist in the first game. Being there from the start helps immensely though so idk
I honestly hope crafting gets dropped as an idea
@senate2674 I really think it just needs to be reined in. Like no raid weapons, limit it to weapons that perform specific functions with their "God roll", that exist as a fantastic fall back but not a Best in Slot option. But I just don't see how we get there from where we are. I like the delay thing they mentioned in the articles they put out though. Good step in the right direction. Treat crafting like a catch up mechanic
@@bloodelf941 i could get behind that, but make them unable to be enhanced
Your take is garbage, go to a casino if you have a gambling addiction.
@@pj13246 Lol