I think something that really benefits alethonym is that it gives ad clear people in raids an actual job to do besides clearing ads. Granted the only times I ever find ammo a problem is in master raids or pantheon
The Navigator would be a little better for me if I didn’t have to spend so much time shooting my teammate to give Woven Mail and if it would last any bit longer. If I can tap-fire for at least a half-second less for a longer buff, that weapon would see more uses
Yeah navigatior only works if you have comes and can tell your team to stop moving while you give them DR. Then you get most of the ammo refunded. I'm disappointed he didn't mention it's ability to sever though.
Ex Diris on a Hunter with Mothkeepers could be considered also as a half-support weapon. With the buffs of Void overshield that's now much more tanky, and all the buffs of Ex diris making it a sleeped-on exotic, the void moth hitting allies could boost a lot their surviability and even save them. Maybe the minus point is when you need that overshield, and the moth goes on someone else.
I'm honestly hoping that the next support frame auto is on the kinetic slot. That way it opens the slot for the heal-lock to be the one carrying div or an energy dps weapon.
My new go to load out for day ones is the healing auto, cascade alh cataphract and euphony. Euphony procs cascade in one hit so i can have really good burst, or swap my 4th column perk to BnS for good total DPS. I used it for day 1 vespers. Otherwise a nice load out this season if you wanna go support is alethonym, healing auto and Vs chill inhibitor (the roll that banshee is gonna sell in 2 weeks.)
I know this is a PVE list, but as a PVP main, No Hesitation is hilarious in Trials or any 3v3 where incoming damage isnt crazy like in 6v6. I mostly use it on my Warlock when I feel like playing him in 3s, and some people just can get through the healing it puts out to kill my team. If you take the right perks, it also works with Benevolence so it will let you recharge your melee and healing nade faster than normal too. Combo it with Lumina and Boots of the Assembler, and most people just dont know what to do. Also its damage buff lets memento Ace two tap. Have fun with that.
I am not ashamed to admit that Edge of Action is my most favorite support tool. Strictly using Helm of Saint-14 means not being able to benefit from other support exotics, namely Arbor Warden, so I see the mini bubble as being an invaluable way of providing allies with cover and overshields from afar, easily securing revives, and creating little pockets of safety to briefly rest and recover in while still under fire. It’s also easier to aim than the Arbor Warden grenade and blinds enemies when paired with Helm of Saint-14, which is a nice bonus that, while not entirely practical, is still cool and has some niche uses.
Know I’m two weeks late but two things. 1) I’d have given lumina an S tier still and 2) it’s a really good video. This is a very unique video and you fleshed it out well, nice job
I'd argue weapons like Buried Bloodline (with the catalyst), Collective Obligation, Ergo Sum (wolfpack), and Two-Tailed Fox should at least deserve a mention. Otherwise great video, I'd love to see a tier list of support exotic armour as well :D
I'm glad you liked the video! I looked back at Buried Bloodline, and that's a good point! If I do an updated video, I'll make sure to include that one! Edit: I'm actually currently working on armor as well as perks/origin traits. I hope to have those videos out for you guys soon! Hope to see ya there! :)
For me, ammo generation isn’t the main draw of alethonym, it’s just a slightly odd cherry on top. If I’m equipping it, it’s not because I want slightly more ammo, it’s because I want the mobility it provides by virtue of kneecap exploding without any reliance on ammo. I can’t say how good the build is in high-end content, but running it with rain of fire is definitely a fun time.
Edge of intent would be great if it could put down 3 turrets per charge instead of just the one, or maybe a mini well of radiance beneath the healing turret
Put both navigatior and deterministic chaos in B tier. Deterministic Chaos main value comes on void titan with controlled demolition for the same healing as a well of radiance for you and teammates. This doesn't work on solar warlock, but every other option is made for that so thats what makes it unique as well. Navigator is actually a pretty bad weapon, but for support you can apply sever so enemies deal less dmg to your team along with the woven mail which is only obtainable on strand or prismatic anyway, so to invalidate that and the grapple aspect is irrational. Like many other support weapons it requires you to have a certain team comp for maximum viability but the dmg output of prism hutbter grapple tether and strand titan is still a force to be reckoned with. Red death needs to go in C tier. Its okay in solo or just as a pulse rifle but its use as a actual support weapon to heal allies when it just has the same value as a healclip legendary makes nowhere close to s tier.
Thank you for the very well thought out and in-depth response! To address your points... Deterministic Chaos - While you're definitely correct, remember that these weapons are judged with the assumption that they're not paired with any particular build or setup in mind. Without including that rule, it would be easy to justify A or S Tier spots for most weapons. Navigator - That is a totally fair point. I should have taken sever into account more. Thank you for bringing that up. Red Death - I'd argue the value more so comes from the burst of restoration x2. It's essentially throwing a Solar Warlock healing grenade at your feet every time it procs. Though I see your point, and appreciate your input! Ergo Sum - I saw you mention this one in another comment. I didn't include it because I wasn't including weapons that require specific perks to become support weapons. The reason being that I plan on making a separate video looking at support perks/origin traits, so I hope to see ya at that video! Again, thank you for your comment and I appreciate your input! :)
My favorite Healer builds Titan - Precious Scars + Red Death / Precious Scars + Banner of War Warlock - Lumina + Boots of the assembler [I don't have No Hesitation + Speaker Helm]
No worries at all, those are all fantastic healing builds! Since I've been wearing my festival mask most of the time, I've been using Lumina + Assembler a lot lately!
edge of intent might as well have a permanent on the battlefield...where it's one of those pesky turrets that continuously shoots at you and you can put it on a wall or something and it'll shoot at you and it waits until the bullet reaches you, so you'll get healed more if you are closer...or a lumina turret...or heal with a shield over it...OR, gives a big bubble aura of increased max health?
I've been using Deterministic... it is kinda bad. I'm really only using it as an anti barrier option because I'm running Stasis and the kit handles overload & unstoppable
I used it when I first ran Warlord's Ruin (pre-Prismatic) on my Strand Warlock. It actually wasn't half-bad then, dealt okay damage while applying Weaken, Volatile, and Sever (with Thread of Isolation). I think its biggest problem right now is that Weaken is just so easy to apply using any Void grenade, including on Prismatic, and you can get the Fragment to apply Sever as well.
I agree with everything except Red Death. Why take up your exotic slot when No Hesitation does it's job MUCH better? I personally wouldn't even say Red Death is a good PvE weapon since it has no splash damage and with how common restoration and devour is, its self healing feels redundant. It definitely shines in PvP though
Deterministic choas isn't good, but it has a niche for the witness boss fight. Put one guy on that and you essentially have constant weakness during dps.
I disagree on Edge of Intent. Running it WITH Speaker's Sight, Ember of Benevolence, and high Discipline means you will have a healing turret on the ground at all times.
Too bad the Trials rocket isn’t really accessible since it’s from… well trials lmao. Rolling with the new shiny envious arsenal and b/s, I could see it becoming meta and bringing gjallarhorn back into the light. Overall great video and valid points 👍
The most BS thing is as an adept it drops with double perks in right but never in left. Spent like 7 hours farming and best I got was air trigger + BnS/Bipod which I need to actually try out cause in theory I can hold 16 rockets total and then swap to BnS and just spam them in the air.
I kind of hate No Hesitation for pretty much single-handedly making most of the support exotics in the game obsolete. Something that strong should never have been a legendary.
True. It basically makes you unkillable with speakers sight and still allows you to bring a dps exotic too. I ram it last season with dragon's breath and I was just getting infinite ignitions and heals 😂
@ Yeah, I knew as soon as Bungie announced it and said it was a legendary, that if they didn’t balance it very very carefully, it was going to just push almost all the other support exotics out of the game. It’s kind of like the Prismatic of guns.
![Digital Circus Episode 4 [TRAILER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/abZtsmMUbJo/mqdefault.jpg)
I think something that really benefits alethonym is that it gives ad clear people in raids an actual job to do besides clearing ads. Granted the only times I ever find ammo a problem is in master raids or pantheon
The Navigator would be a little better for me if I didn’t have to spend so much time shooting my teammate to give Woven Mail and if it would last any bit longer. If I can tap-fire for at least a half-second less for a longer buff, that weapon would see more uses
Yeah navigatior only works if you have comes and can tell your team to stop moving while you give them DR. Then you get most of the ammo refunded. I'm disappointed he didn't mention it's ability to sever though.
Ex Diris on a Hunter with Mothkeepers could be considered also as a half-support weapon. With the buffs of Void overshield that's now much more tanky, and all the buffs of Ex diris making it a sleeped-on exotic, the void moth hitting allies could boost a lot their surviability and even save them.
Maybe the minus point is when you need that overshield, and the moth goes on someone else.
I'm honestly hoping that the next support frame auto is on the kinetic slot. That way it opens the slot for the heal-lock to be the one carrying div or an energy dps weapon.
I am 100% with that! A kinetic support frame auto would complete a lot of builds for me.
My new go to load out for day ones is the healing auto, cascade alh cataphract and euphony. Euphony procs cascade in one hit so i can have really good burst, or swap my 4th column perk to BnS for good total DPS. I used it for day 1 vespers. Otherwise a nice load out this season if you wanna go support is alethonym, healing auto and Vs chill inhibitor (the roll that banshee is gonna sell in 2 weeks.)
I want a void one. Imagine if it had a perk that gave void overshield? Or god forbid devour-
It would be cool to have a stasis one with headstone that can help provide cover or a strand one that severs
I know this is a PVE list, but as a PVP main, No Hesitation is hilarious in Trials or any 3v3 where incoming damage isnt crazy like in 6v6. I mostly use it on my Warlock when I feel like playing him in 3s, and some people just can get through the healing it puts out to kill my team. If you take the right perks, it also works with Benevolence so it will let you recharge your melee and healing nade faster than normal too. Combo it with Lumina and Boots of the Assembler, and most people just dont know what to do.
Also its damage buff lets memento Ace two tap. Have fun with that.
I am not ashamed to admit that Edge of Action is my most favorite support tool. Strictly using Helm of Saint-14 means not being able to benefit from other support exotics, namely Arbor Warden, so I see the mini bubble as being an invaluable way of providing allies with cover and overshields from afar, easily securing revives, and creating little pockets of safety to briefly rest and recover in while still under fire.
It’s also easier to aim than the Arbor Warden grenade and blinds enemies when paired with Helm of Saint-14, which is a nice bonus that, while not entirely practical, is still cool and has some niche uses.
Know I’m two weeks late but two things. 1) I’d have given lumina an S tier still and 2) it’s a really good video. This is a very unique video and you fleshed it out well, nice job
I'd argue weapons like Buried Bloodline (with the catalyst), Collective Obligation, Ergo Sum (wolfpack), and Two-Tailed Fox should at least deserve a mention. Otherwise great video, I'd love to see a tier list of support exotic armour as well :D
I'm glad you liked the video! I looked back at Buried Bloodline, and that's a good point! If I do an updated video, I'll make sure to include that one!
Edit: I'm actually currently working on armor as well as perks/origin traits. I hope to have those videos out for you guys soon! Hope to see ya there! :)
Eegosum Wolfpack is a good mention cause every team needs one for 2nd in SE.
For me, ammo generation isn’t the main draw of alethonym, it’s just a slightly odd cherry on top. If I’m equipping it, it’s not because I want slightly more ammo, it’s because I want the mobility it provides by virtue of kneecap exploding without any reliance on ammo. I can’t say how good the build is in high-end content, but running it with rain of fire is definitely a fun time.
10:48 what emote is that? homie started throwing it back
LOL I just went back and noticed that! I have no idea what emote that is, but that was a good catch haha!
Edge of intent would be great if it could put down 3 turrets per charge instead of just the one, or maybe a mini well of radiance beneath the healing turret
Put both navigatior and deterministic chaos in B tier. Deterministic Chaos main value comes on void titan with controlled demolition for the same healing as a well of radiance for you and teammates. This doesn't work on solar warlock, but every other option is made for that so thats what makes it unique as well. Navigator is actually a pretty bad weapon, but for support you can apply sever so enemies deal less dmg to your team along with the woven mail which is only obtainable on strand or prismatic anyway, so to invalidate that and the grapple aspect is irrational. Like many other support weapons it requires you to have a certain team comp for maximum viability but the dmg output of prism hutbter grapple tether and strand titan is still a force to be reckoned with. Red death needs to go in C tier. Its okay in solo or just as a pulse rifle but its use as a actual support weapon to heal allies when it just has the same value as a healclip legendary makes nowhere close to s tier.
Thank you for the very well thought out and in-depth response! To address your points...
Deterministic Chaos - While you're definitely correct, remember that these weapons are judged with the assumption that they're not paired with any particular build or setup in mind. Without including that rule, it would be easy to justify A or S Tier spots for most weapons.
Navigator - That is a totally fair point. I should have taken sever into account more. Thank you for bringing that up.
Red Death - I'd argue the value more so comes from the burst of restoration x2. It's essentially throwing a Solar Warlock healing grenade at your feet every time it procs. Though I see your point, and appreciate your input!
Ergo Sum - I saw you mention this one in another comment. I didn't include it because I wasn't including weapons that require specific perks to become support weapons. The reason being that I plan on making a separate video looking at support perks/origin traits, so I hope to see ya at that video!
Again, thank you for your comment and I appreciate your input! :)
My favorite Healer builds
Titan - Precious Scars + Red Death / Precious Scars + Banner of War
Warlock - Lumina + Boots of the assembler
[I don't have No Hesitation + Speaker Helm]
No worries at all, those are all fantastic healing builds! Since I've been wearing my festival mask most of the time, I've been using Lumina + Assembler a lot lately!
Great vid! I'm happy to hear I already have most of the good weapons unlocked. Div may be my next, considering I need to do more raids lol
edge of intent might as well have a permanent on the battlefield...where it's one of those pesky turrets that continuously shoots at you and you can put it on a wall or something and it'll shoot at you and it waits until the bullet reaches you, so you'll get healed more if you are closer...or a lumina turret...or heal with a shield over it...OR, gives a big bubble aura of increased max health?
Yo wsp, great video man. Honestly I agree with all your points. Keep up the great work, I see great potential in your yt channel! 😁
I've been using Deterministic... it is kinda bad. I'm really only using it as an anti barrier option because I'm running Stasis and the kit handles overload & unstoppable
I used it when I first ran Warlord's Ruin (pre-Prismatic) on my Strand Warlock. It actually wasn't half-bad then, dealt okay damage while applying Weaken, Volatile, and Sever (with Thread of Isolation). I think its biggest problem right now is that Weaken is just so easy to apply using any Void grenade, including on Prismatic, and you can get the Fragment to apply Sever as well.
If you play titan try it with controlled demolition on pure void titan. It's a great option for team healing.
great vid im happy i found and subbed to your little channel. here before you're famous 😼
I agree with everything except Red Death. Why take up your exotic slot when No Hesitation does it's job MUCH better? I personally wouldn't even say Red Death is a good PvE weapon since it has no splash damage and with how common restoration and devour is, its self healing feels redundant. It definitely shines in PvP though
This is totally fair, and I appreciate your input!
Great video❤ , thank you for the guideeeee
They should change vexcalibur to use the hip fire from choir of one.
Alethonym had a chunk of extra value in this week's GM nightfall specifically though. Famine + Counterfeit is a DEVIOUS combination of modifiers.
Can't wait for an overload GM so I have an excuse to use it and fighting lion in real high end content
Deterministic choas isn't good, but it has a niche for the witness boss fight. Put one guy on that and you essentially have constant weakness during dps.
I love alethonym. I get why its not S or A tier but i still love it.
I disagree on Edge of Intent. Running it WITH Speaker's Sight, Ember of Benevolence, and high Discipline means you will have a healing turret on the ground at all times.
Too bad the Trials rocket isn’t really accessible since it’s from… well trials lmao. Rolling with the new shiny envious arsenal and b/s, I could see it becoming meta and bringing gjallarhorn back into the light.
Overall great video and valid points 👍
Its so good, but so hard to get. You can get almost 100 handling, and that's crazy for a bns weapon😊
The most BS thing is as an adept it drops with double perks in right but never in left. Spent like 7 hours farming and best I got was air trigger + BnS/Bipod which I need to actually try out cause in theory I can hold 16 rockets total and then swap to BnS and just spam them in the air.
alethonym without stasis loader mods ☹
I kind of hate No Hesitation for pretty much single-handedly making most of the support exotics in the game obsolete. Something that strong should never have been a legendary.
True. It basically makes you unkillable with speakers sight and still allows you to bring a dps exotic too. I ram it last season with dragon's breath and I was just getting infinite ignitions and heals 😂
@ Yeah, I knew as soon as Bungie announced it and said it was a legendary, that if they didn’t balance it very very carefully, it was going to just push almost all the other support exotics out of the game. It’s kind of like the Prismatic of guns.