This is a realistic view of what I ran into doing the same type of repair. Thanks! The first 15 videos showed nothing complicated or of center so I had quite a puzzle to solve when I took the old down. Thanks for some realism!
Instead of notching the stud, there is a box designed for bouncing on a 2x4. Not the little flat pancake box, but one that is only partially round on the back.
@@measuretwicetv2281 does he mean this one, or maybe the ones that has only half of a deep back part with a full flat front? ruclips.net/video/A1M-eaQZyjI/видео.html
@@warrenmichael918there are ones like the link i commented but there are also ones that have about 1/2 inch missing of the box to allow to bolt against the side of the stud too if there is no wall in the way or if you want to cut a piece of drywall out and reinstall and patch it after. There are plenty of options (even before this video was made) but they might not have been sitting on this youtuber's local hardware store shelf and they probably didn't feel like waiting to order it.
Well done checking for power even though it should not be there. I was watching a different video where the guy found the light switch was wired incorrectly neutral instead of hot. It still operated 'correctly' but was unsafe even when the switch was off due to the neutral being interrupted instead of hot.
@@blkwulf134 Except sometimes white wires are used as hot. They are supposed to be marked with a band of electrical tape, but that doesn't always happen.
That light may have been “back fed,” with power coming in at the light. Neutral directly to light power to white wire of cable going to switch, then it returns on the black of that same cable, so that black onto the light
Always check. A neutral issue can cause a voltage difference that can shock you. Then if it fed the light first, it'll always be hot and switch is the end of the chain.
This was incredibly helpful. When I pulled off my old vanity light I found just a wire sticking out of a large hole in my wall. This video was the first I watched and you made it easy to follow! Really appreciate it!
Curious: why not a pancake box? Also, if the box was instead only an inch off center, depending on the fixture you can gain that back with some offset tricks to send it back the other way. Sometimes I’ve had to fabricate a custom offset mounting plate by boring holes in a short piece of flat bar. Thus only pays if if you’re a homeowner and your time is “free”.
Since there was a stud adjacent to desired location I would think you could have used a rectangular box and attached it to the stud. Old metal boxes have clamps that tighten with screws so you wouldn't have to worry about cable being g stapled close to the new box. My guess is the base of light fixture would cover a rectangular box.
Same illegal situation and boy it's a pain. I have a stud going almost in the middle of where I'm putting my box. Borrowed an oscillating saw and 2 hour long sessions of hacking away in a dust storm = the box fits. However my struggle (and electrical research) continues because now I've tested and found a weird situation of wires (involving a shared wire for an outlet) that won't all fit through the little ports in the back, and even when I got them through, it's a tight mess and the box won't sit flush anymore. all for symmetry..
Thank you for this..place I just bought and moved into has this issue. I don't understand why people do things like this, bathroom light is like this and then wires sticking out of the wall above the sink.
What if the installation point is nowhere near a stud? Will the box "wing" attached to just the drywall be strong enough to hold a 3-light vanity light?
Good point but the goal was to center the light. FYI, it was not a load bearing wall and notching studs is not a faux pas if you know what your doing. One could use a pancake box and that would of made the project simpler than notching. My plan is to redo this video with a pancake box in the near future. Thank you for sharing.
I worked in an apartment complex several years ago where we secured the whips to stud and the when code said we could only do that in certain locations we installed pancake boxes to the studs. I spent an entire week doing that in dozens of bathrooms and it ended up looking alright. Code didn't care in dry locations , but I think our issue was that the developer was unsure of vanity locations. My boss was a good sport about it
Please our building are one large code violation no light or ventilation in the attics none of the shut off valves work for the water and miles of rubber clamps to stop pinhole leaks.
My junction box is square, the old light is heavy, it fell out because the drywall isn't holding the square junction box in place. I'm buying a lighter fixture but I'm not sure how to rig the square box back in the wall since there's nothing to hold it. I was thinking about a plate of some sort I could place over the junction box and screw it in another place to hold it all in. The connections are holding it, so it wasn't that, the drywall just couldn't hold the heavy light in place. Thanks for any suggestions.
Instead of using a hand saw or reciprocating saw to cut the hole, use the correct size hole saw. It will save you time from fixing the drywall like this. Hole saw kits aren't too expensive and the kits will have a lot of different uses.
And or, he could've just move the hole about an inch or so, to the right, and could've avoided cutting part of the stud, and save time and making unnecessary cut to the stud. It doesn't have to be exact center of the wall
His lesson was partially about if the wire came from below and you couldn't push the wire into the wall. In that case, you can't use saw. For demonstration and ease he pushed it in since it was a dropped wire.
How heavy a fixture can that box hold? My vanity fell off the wall & now im watching videos to install a new one. But terrified it'll fall again some day
Please pardon my ignorance. Sorry but I don’t understand what those mounting screws are going into?! It looks like the box is only being supported by the drywall. Obviously I don’t know anything about this but that’s what it looks like to me. I’m ready to buy new box because … I have a closet ceiling , round metal light box that is already in the ceiling but one of Metal screws that needs to go in to one side has a problem because the existing metal box has one stripped receptacle tab. The closet was added about 40 years ago so maybe the boxes have changed since then? My new light fixture is very lightweight and the screw tab on the right hand side of the existing box is not stripped so that’s fine. It’s only the left screw tab is stripped and will not take a new screw. I don’t know if there’s any other solution except to change the box? Any other ideas with new stuff on the market to help out a stripped receptacle tab?
The screws he turns rotate an "arm" or "wing" on the back that goes behind the drywall and as he turns it grabs and squeezes the box to the drywall. There seems to be debate in these comments of how much weight that can support, but I think it's fine for most stuff, especially on a ceiling. Sorry, no great ideas on the stripped screw, other than maybe you can buy a slightly larger screw that you can muscle in and effectively rethread the hole. Might work. If your fixture is super light like just a bulb, one screw is probably just fine.
My box doesn't sit flush(like yours) with the drywall it sticks out from the drywall so my light doesn't sit flush as it has a small base.. How can I fix that?
Could have used a Pancake Box. Cut the drywall and no notching required. Also it would have been stronger as the pancake box would have been screwed directly into the stud.
Fixtures that heavy usually aren’t center mounted over a box. Those have multiple mounting screw holes across the width of the fixture so you can attach the fixture with drywall anchors or into adjacent studs.
Best bet is remove drywall over a stud so you can screw with a bracket to the stud. Then drywall around it (or hire drywall guy). Bracket will be hidden by drywall.
The old one was illegal, but it attached to the stud to support the weight of a vanity fixture, which are often over the few pounds the old work boxes are rated for. Will a drywall-mounted box be enough to hold up a vanity light?
Yes , it should be fine. Most vanity lights are pretty light in weight. It’s never been an issue for me when using an old work junction box (also called a remodel box).
First off, the wall was not load bearing. It’s a common practice for the different trades to notch out studs for pipes and wiring etc. Notching one stud isn’t going to cause the whole house to fall down. That’s absurd! “He weakened the structural integrity of the wall. OMG!” If you removed all the drywall from your home, you would find various areas throughout the framing installation where studs were cut or notched out to accommodate the various trades such as pipes for plumbing, wires for electrical, HVAC venting etc. The reason you are questioning my method is because you have never seen a whole project stripped down to the studs to verify my point of view. Since the notched out studs are hidden behind the drywall and or you have never seen someone notch out a stud, you think it’s a faux pas. However you are incorrect. There is an alternative method to this problem. I could of used a pancake junction box that attaches directly on top of the framing stud. So in response to your exclamation point, don’t remove studs completely without verifying if it’s a load bearing wall, consider a sister stud (this is where you butt another stud against the one you notched to add additional support) if you are worried about compromising the stud you notched.
7:13 there’s no reason to cut off that much excess wires. The code calls for at least 6” of wires from the back of the junction box. Judging from your video, it seems there’s only about 4” (2.5” box depth and 1.5” sticking out from the box).
it's not illegal if the time it was installed the code did not specify it. State the house build time so the illegal portion of the video can be validated.
Ahhh you're no fun. Don't be afraid to cut a stud if it's in the way. Always check if it's load bearing and use your best judgment. This wall was non-load bearing. Tradesmen "carve" studs all the time for ventilation, electrical wiring, plumbing, etc. Carving one little stud won't make the house fall down.
Yes a pancake box would be less work less wall board to trim screw directly to stud use metal pancake box no wall to patch , you made extra work for yourself
This is a realistic view of what I ran into doing the same type of repair. Thanks! The first 15 videos showed nothing complicated or of center so I had quite a puzzle to solve when I took the old down. Thanks for some realism!
Instead of notching the stud, there is a box designed for bouncing on a 2x4. Not the little flat pancake box, but one that is only partially round on the back.
I’m all ears, let’s see it
moving the fixture over 1-2" or using a pancake box is -- to me -- preferable to notching the stud.
@@measuretwicetv2281 does he mean this one, or maybe the ones that has only half of a deep back part with a full flat front? ruclips.net/video/A1M-eaQZyjI/видео.html
Saddle direct mount box, no need to hack the stud.
@@warrenmichael918there are ones like the link i commented but there are also ones that have about 1/2 inch missing of the box to allow to bolt against the side of the stud too if there is no wall in the way or if you want to cut a piece of drywall out and reinstall and patch it after. There are plenty of options (even before this video was made) but they might not have been sitting on this youtuber's local hardware store shelf and they probably didn't feel like waiting to order it.
Thank you so much. Renovating my house and found the same exact thing in a vanity mirror. Wire just sticking straight out!
Well done checking for power even though it should not be there. I was watching a different video where the guy found the light switch was wired incorrectly neutral instead of hot. It still operated 'correctly' but was unsafe even when the switch was off due to the neutral being interrupted instead of hot.
A way to remember that is black gold black, wire gold screw, white wire white screw and the redwire is hot so gold screw too.
@@blkwulf134 Except sometimes white wires are used as hot. They are supposed to be marked with a band of electrical tape, but that doesn't always happen.
That light may have been “back fed,” with power coming in at the light. Neutral directly to light power to white wire of cable going to switch, then it returns on the black of that same cable, so that black onto the light
Always check. A neutral issue can cause a voltage difference that can shock you. Then if it fed the light first, it'll always be hot and switch is the end of the chain.
This was incredibly helpful. When I pulled off my old vanity light I found just a wire sticking out of a large hole in my wall. This video was the first I watched and you made it easy to follow! Really appreciate it!
Thank you. You can use a pancake junction box that mounts right on the stud so you don’t have to notch out the stud.
Thank you. You can use a pancake electrical junction box that mounts on the drywall instead of notching the stud.
Notching the stud must have been tricky. If the fixture had been an inch off center, would it have affected the rest of the project?
No. it was completely unnecessary and bad advice to give inexperienced DIYers.
@@squirts1 Yeah; thank for the reply.
It is very clumsy to notch the stud. To move a little bit off the stub is totally better option in this specific situation
@@pengjunsun3683 I agree, and would add that it is highly unlikely anybody would notice.
Curious: why not a pancake box? Also, if the box was instead only an inch off center, depending on the fixture you can gain that back with some offset tricks to send it back the other way. Sometimes I’ve had to fabricate a custom offset mounting plate by boring holes in a short piece of flat bar. Thus only pays if if you’re a homeowner and your time is “free”.
Since there was a stud adjacent to desired location I would think you could have used a rectangular box and attached it to the stud. Old metal boxes have clamps that tighten with screws so you wouldn't have to worry about cable being g stapled close to the new box. My guess is the base of light fixture would cover a rectangular box.
YES or just miss the stud who would know it was out of center by that little bit.
They make a round box with flat side that mounts to a stud without having to notch it
The dedication to exactly centering it is impressive.
One question. Is an old work box like that strong enough to hold a light safely?
Yes, if installed correctly. That's exactly what it's designed/intended for.
Thanks SO much for this video! It was exactly what I needed to install a vanity light and I'm new to all this. Super helpful!
Thank you! You can also use a pancake junction box on the stud.,
196 subscribers but 25k views, that's wild! Thanks for the video, this is very helpful
Same illegal situation and boy it's a pain. I have a stud going almost in the middle of where I'm putting my box. Borrowed an oscillating saw and 2 hour long sessions of hacking away in a dust storm = the box fits. However my struggle (and electrical research) continues because now I've tested and found a weird situation of wires (involving a shared wire for an outlet) that won't all fit through the little ports in the back, and even when I got them through, it's a tight mess and the box won't sit flush anymore. all for symmetry..
Thank you for this..place I just bought and moved into has this issue. I don't understand why people do things like this, bathroom light is like this and then wires sticking out of the wall above the sink.
What if the installation point is nowhere near a stud? Will the box "wing" attached to just the drywall be strong enough to hold a 3-light vanity light?
I would have just moved the box over a little so that the stud didn't need to be cut. Also hole saw instead of a drywall saw.
Good point but the goal was to center the light. FYI, it was not a load bearing wall and notching studs is not a faux pas if you know what your doing. One could use a pancake box and that would of made the project simpler than notching. My plan is to redo this video with a pancake box in the near future. Thank you for sharing.
I worked in an apartment complex several years ago where we secured the whips to stud and the when code said we could only do that in certain locations we installed pancake boxes to the studs. I spent an entire week doing that in dozens of bathrooms and it ended up looking alright. Code didn't care in dry locations , but I think our issue was that the developer was unsure of vanity locations. My boss was a good sport about it
Please our building are one large code violation no light or ventilation in the attics none of the shut off valves work for the water and miles of rubber clamps to stop pinhole leaks.
Pancake boxes very often exceed fill limits, but if the inspector says ok, then go ahead.
Thank you, Nathan-you just saved me a load of money my man for an eletrician to install this. You're the man!
No worries. We didn’t have access to a pancake box that night we shot. You can save a lot of time if you can find one.
My junction box is square, the old light is heavy, it fell out because the drywall isn't holding the square junction box in place. I'm buying a lighter fixture but I'm not sure how to rig the square box back in the wall since there's nothing to hold it. I was thinking about a plate of some sort I could place over the junction box and screw it in another place to hold it all in. The connections are holding it, so it wasn't that, the drywall just couldn't hold the heavy light in place. Thanks for any suggestions.
Instead of using a hand saw or reciprocating saw to cut the hole, use the correct size hole saw. It will save you time from fixing the drywall like this. Hole saw kits aren't too expensive and the kits will have a lot of different uses.
And or, he could've just move the hole about an inch or so, to the right, and could've avoided cutting part of the stud, and save time and making unnecessary cut to the stud. It doesn't have to be exact center of the wall
His lesson was partially about if the wire came from below and you couldn't push the wire into the wall. In that case, you can't use saw. For demonstration and ease he pushed it in since it was a dropped wire.
I hope that was not a load bearing wall and the box you installed hold the weight of the fixture
You can damn near swing off that round box when installed properly.
We’re worried about the illegal lighting here sir. Load bearing walls are not his job 😂
Great job. I learned something
How heavy a fixture can that box hold? My vanity fell off the wall & now im watching videos to install a new one. But terrified it'll fall again some day
Please pardon my ignorance. Sorry but I don’t understand what those mounting screws are going into?! It looks like the box is only being supported by the drywall. Obviously I don’t know anything about this but that’s what it looks like to me. I’m ready to buy new box because …
I have a closet ceiling , round metal light box that is already in the ceiling but one of Metal screws that needs to go in to one side has a problem because the existing metal box has one stripped receptacle tab. The closet was added about 40 years ago so maybe the boxes have changed since then?
My new light fixture is very lightweight and the screw tab on the right hand side of the existing box is not stripped so that’s fine. It’s only the left screw tab is stripped and will not take a new screw.
I don’t know if there’s any other solution except to change the box? Any other ideas with new stuff on the market to help out a stripped receptacle tab?
The screws he turns rotate an "arm" or "wing" on the back that goes behind the drywall and as he turns it grabs and squeezes the box to the drywall. There seems to be debate in these comments of how much weight that can support, but I think it's fine for most stuff, especially on a ceiling.
Sorry, no great ideas on the stripped screw, other than maybe you can buy a slightly larger screw that you can muscle in and effectively rethread the hole. Might work. If your fixture is super light like just a bulb, one screw is probably just fine.
Thank you Ron! Great advice.
More videos please! 2 watches on to be sure you're on time to the next job
Those boxes are listed for light fixture support although used often by many
Thank you for this video! It helped a lot!✌️👍
I like your music!
My box doesn't sit flush(like yours) with the drywall it sticks out from the drywall so my light doesn't sit flush as it has a small base.. How can I fix that?
Is the whole cut enough?
Could have used a Pancake Box. Cut the drywall and no notching required. Also it would have been stronger as the pancake box would have been screwed directly into the stud.
Yes! If only we had one that night we were filming. Plan is to make another video featuring the pancake box.
@@measuretwicetv2281great idea also would be nice if you add a note about it in this video so people know about that option
What if you have a heavy light fixture that will pull the box right out of the wall if unsecured? Do you have a video for that?
Fixtures that heavy usually aren’t center mounted over a box. Those have multiple mounting screw holes across the width of the fixture so you can attach the fixture with drywall anchors or into adjacent studs.
Best bet is remove drywall over a stud so you can screw with a bracket to the stud. Then drywall around it (or hire drywall guy). Bracket will be hidden by drywall.
WHY DIDN'T YOU JUS MOVE IT TO THE RIGHT AN INCH OR SO?
I think you should uncapitalized your keyboard a little to the left, your capitalization rules are incorrectly used.
Because then it would not be centred?
The old one was illegal, but it attached to the stud to support the weight of a vanity fixture, which are often over the few pounds the old work boxes are rated for.
Will a drywall-mounted box be enough to hold up a vanity light?
Yes , it should be fine. Most vanity lights are pretty light in weight. It’s never been an issue for me when using an old work junction box (also called a remodel box).
@@measuretwicetv2281 Thank you! I was concerned about distance from the stud in my situation and didn't want to remove too much drywall.
Absolutely….that particular box is rated for 50 lbs I believe. A lot of people are surprised how much those old work boxes are rated to hold.
I agree with you. This guy does not know what he is doing......His light is going to fall off the wall into his sink...LOLOLOLOLOL!
I've never seen a guy wear two watches before.
one is for the time and the other is to see how much time he wastes
Wow! Your a real charmer Jake! Have you ever heard of individuality. Let’s see you do better then we can talk.
Same kinda guy who notches a stud to get a half inch......
Why would you cut the framing stud!
First off, the wall was not load bearing. It’s a common practice for the different trades to notch out studs for pipes and wiring etc. Notching one stud isn’t going to cause the whole house to fall down. That’s absurd! “He weakened the structural integrity of the wall. OMG!” If you removed all the drywall from your home, you would find various areas throughout the framing installation where studs were cut or notched out to accommodate the various trades such as pipes for plumbing, wires for electrical, HVAC venting etc. The reason you are questioning my method is because you have never seen a whole project stripped down to the studs to verify my point of view.
Since the notched out studs are hidden behind the drywall and or you have never
seen someone notch out a stud, you think it’s a faux pas. However you are incorrect.
There is an alternative method to this problem. I could of used a pancake junction box that attaches directly on top of the framing stud. So in response to your exclamation point, don’t remove studs completely without verifying if it’s a load bearing wall, consider a sister stud (this is where you butt another stud against the one you notched to add additional support) if you are worried about compromising the stud you notched.
@@measuretwicetv2281 Imagine thinking notching a framing stud compromises the integrity of the house. What's wrong with people...
7:13 there’s no reason to cut off that much excess wires. The code calls for at least 6” of wires from the back of the junction box. Judging from your video, it seems there’s only about 4” (2.5” box depth and 1.5” sticking out from the box).
Too late now!
How was romex coming out of first hole if stud was in the way.
It came from the side of the stud.
u made that hole look like hamburger bro
Let’s add some cheese dude!
And some pickles!
A link to the new box would be helpful
Looks like a common Carlon round old work box. Home Depot or Lowes carries them.
@@stacyadiaz - Thank you!! That was a key piece of info for me.
Why do they design those fins so close to the edge, doesn't make sense...
On this space should be set the pan box
Good idea! On the next video
never never never notch out a stud.
Never say never
Amen!!!😮
it's not illegal if the time it was installed the code did not specify it. State the house build time so the illegal portion of the video can be validated.
It’s called marketing! And trust me, the wiring was not to code thus creating an illegally wired fixture.
Nicely done
Think I'd move the box rather than carve up a wall stud😊
Ahhh you're no fun. Don't be afraid to cut a stud if it's in the way. Always check if it's load bearing and use your best judgment. This wall was non-load bearing. Tradesmen "carve" studs all the time for ventilation, electrical wiring, plumbing, etc. Carving one little stud won't make the house fall down.
Old work pancake box would have been less effort
So true!
Yes a pancake box would be less work less wall board to trim screw directly to stud use metal pancake box no wall to patch , you made extra work for yourself
All that work to find true center 😂
All for your entertainment!
Every single light I have replaced in my house I’ve had to put a box in. How does this crap pass inspection
No body checked when you bought the home. The only way to know if it’s wired properly is to remove the light off the wall or ceiling.
I have a pipe next to mine…now what
Try a pancake box. They attach on top of the stud. No notching required.