@@michaeljohn6357 Reyes was kind of right considering how John acts in RDR2, especially the epilogue. They made him a lot softer of a character, which makes me think rdr1 could just all be John's tough-guy act.
@@ComedicPauseI like to think that after Arthurs death John is last member of Dutchs Boys who follows the original rules and morols of the gang. And as Arthur said. Be a goddamn man. With Arthur gone it was time for John to grow up and take responsibility and rely on himself. It's great that John and Arthur die the same way. Holding them off so the others can get away
I don't think John knows what he's talking about. Javier seemed a romantic through and through, and sometimes the two are one and the same. Remember, John has his reads on everyone, but that doesn't make them true.
Javier, for most of the game, actually seemed like a decent fellow. He was respectful to the others, straightforward and loyal to the gang. He went out with Arthur to find John at the beginning of the game out of genuine concern. It was only after Guarma that he started getting hostile. It was probably because Dutch started losing his grip on the situation and Javier couldn’t deal with the fact that his loyalty might have been misplaced. John even mentions in RDR1 that Javier took it harder than anyone else when Dutch went crazy. Javier was conflicted more than anything. He let that conflict get the better of him.
@@0pus.ge131 Bill stepped up and took charge of his own gang after Dutch's fall. Ironically, the way the Van der Linde gang treated Bill is why he ended up the way he is in RDR1.
Javier literally sounded like an Oblivion npc just shooting off random sentences meanwhile Charles was replying like someone trying to make sense of it while also not really caring lol
@@carlinytc7431 I’ve seen some people say it’s based on your honor and I’ve seen others say it’s based on whether you select greet or antagonize when prompted with this dialogue. I think it’s honor related, because Arthur isn’t really antagonizing Charles when he called Javier a piece of shit.
@@conner1260 google is free and easy to use, literally a simple Google search would tell you that author's dialogue changes based on his honor, stop meat riding and take less than a minute to do quick research, have you ever actually played red dead before?
Knowledge gaps are what make this chapter so uncomfortable. People in camp keep chatting random crap and expecting you to know what they are talking about, which leaves the feeling of, "What am I missing? What is going on here?" Because you know Micah is filling everyone's head with lies and dividing the gang into those he thinks he can use and those he wants gone. You know people are talking behind your back, but you don't really know what is being said.
Thats an excellent way of describing it. Camp went from a welcoming, comfortable, and warm place to go for a respite from all the excitement to being the most tense, shitty and unpleasant place to be.
That's actually clever from Rockstar because they know the player will want to spend less time in camp as the atmosphere is so unpleasant so they'll go off doing side quests, hunting, treasure maps etc. So it feels like a lot of shit is being said behind your back when you're away
@@j-skullz Good point. I did actively avoid camp at this point in the game for that reason. I remember hanging around camp a lot in Chapter 2. Hated the energy at this point in the game, but I mean that in a good way. They designed it to feel shitty, and they did good.
It's just mental how they turn on Arthur. Shows how weak they were. Dutch pushef Arthur away because he knew he would keep calling him out where as Micah was feeding his hate. Also made it easier for Dutch to blame others as traitors because he knew it was getting harder to run with all the noncombatants in the group
Euw i hate it also Charles should wear something more modern he always wanted to be this Native American djungle surviving dude like drop the act and just put on a shirt and vest i wanted the gang to dress a little fancier almost like the Italian mob or like bounty hunters dress not Arthur walking around with a blue shirt that has gotten brown because of dirt and Dutch armpit being brown of smell only one dressed good was Javier
Javier was a loyal member of the group and he cared for everyone. He was conflicted after Dutch went crazy. And even when he stood with Dutch in the final mission he aimed towards the sky and not towards Arthur or John. He looked up to Arthur and believed he would never turn them over.
But he still stood with them and went along. He spoke of loyalty but wernt loyal to Arthur or John who didn't do anything wrong. All the they did was point out the truth.
Idk, to me Javier just seemed like an idiot in rdr2. Maybe I didn’t talk to him enough in camp or something or didn’t get to know him enough before he just talked about loyalty all the time
Honestly, my biggest problem with chapter six was how quickly people turned on Arthur. He literally Just saved Javier's life and he's already talking to him like that. What the hell? "What happened to Loyalty?" I guess it got left back in Guarma. It pissed me off having these people mouth off to me in camp after all the crap I did with and for them the whole game. And, Charles and Sadie are the main reason these people had a gang to go back to. I mean dang.
Him and Bill etc were just unable to see reality, they were too loyal to Dutch and it blinded them, got brainwashed to believe everything was going to plan and the others were becoming traitors when it was the opposite
@@easternrebel1061 Yeah I know, and I'm glad, but still... the people who sided with Micah against Arthur, Dutch, Bill and Javier. (Forgetting anyone?(and Yeah I know Bill and Javier were following Dutch but still...) I get that Dutch is losing it and Bill's an A-hole, but why are he and Javier mouthing off to Arthur. Especially RIGHT After Guarma.
Well seeing that he barely escaped with his life from Guarma recently and that the gang is very much on edge after the disaster in Saint Denis I dont think the sudden change in Javier's character is necessarily implemented in an unbelievable way. He's very much loyal to Dutch and disappointed that folk are openly criticizing him in the vulnerable situation they are in. He probably feels he owes Dutch his life for prioritizing to save him at Guarma too.
Thats a good perspective but arthur also saved him so it doesnt exactly work. loyalty has its costs. Be loyal to a hero or a piece of shit who lost his mind. Javier picked the pos in favor of wealth.
@@A_piece_of_broccoli not because of wealth Dutch has done much more for Javier than Arthur but in the game when it comes to money Arthur was the bread winner he was the most effective making most money but shared everything with the gang if both Dutch and Arthur lived i believe Arthur would be the wealthier although i cant deny Dutch had a silver tounge
@@A_piece_of_broccolieveryone knows Arthur is dying as well so his worth and value long term is practically zero at this point. Is what made it easier for Micah to turn everyone on him.
I love Javier’s character in RDR 2, only wish he had a bigger role in the story but i’ve heard that was originally the case, but the script didn’t match Javier’s actor views on him. RDR 1 has a plothole because it says that Javier was the person who went just as mad as dutch and they intended it to be this way but the actor insisted that they’d change it for his character, which is a shame, would be cool to see the real crazy side of Javier They wrote him really well for the little missions he has, you don’t really see him as a bad person but you can tell through all the missions with him that something isn’t entirely right with him, he’s a little weird, perhaps wired. So it doesn’t come as a complete shock when he changes
The reason so many people like Javier is because they barely spent any time in camp during chapter 6, so they missed all of his "bad guy" camp interactions (antagonizing Abigail/Uncle/Charles, conspiring with Micah, suspecting John is the rat...). You can clearly see chapter 6 Javier transitioning into RDR 1 Javier during those moments, but it's sadly easy to miss if you don't visit camp regularly.
Well a few interactions in chapter 6 is a big contrast from all the good times you have with him in every chapter before. I mean, he’s set up to be a likable character. I remember I’d be at camp some nights and drop everything if I heard a guitar strum, because I knew Javier was playing and everyone would be singing. He’s genuinely a fun loyal guy that Arthur liked too. It’s just his loyalty to Dutch was all he knew and so he resented everyone and felt betrayed when everything was falling apart. He did become a bad person and deserved what became of him, but he was a good person at some point too
I don’t see how Javier is wrong... Like it or not. He’s justified in his suspicions of Charles and Arthur both. Charles and Arthur by this point of the story are helping the Wapiti Reservation FACTUALLY MORE then the gang even. Which is something completely Alien to a gang of OutLaws. So really I don’t see what you all are getting at with calling Javier out. You as the players are the hypocrites and liars to yourselves about who you are. Even to the point that you lot are willing to pretend that Dutch betrayed Arthur when factually Arthur breaking John out of Prison, Helping the Natives more then the gang, running his own affairs with the Downs Family, trying to convince people to abandon the gang (Dutch effectively) and so on... Are ACTUAL examples of betrayal. Always gets me twisted how people are shocked by the events in this chapter. We as the players have front row seats... yet never recognize how OUR actions lead to much of these scenarios.
@@terrencemoldern2756 Is your name Dutch? Because you're very good at manipulating it all to make it all seem like Dutch is the victim and good guy when he's not. Because Dutch didn't go back to help John, when he said he would. And then he was going to let John hang, and got angry when Sadie and Arthur saved their family member. As for the Down's family, Arthur was dying and he gave his own money to them, that's not going behind Dutch's back. Arthur is trying to save people, because Dutch will get them all killed but sure, Arthur is the one doing the betraying.
@@deleila_charlie2068 sounds like nothing but excuses to not consider my arguments. Dutch was going to save John. It’s just that Arthur and Sadie saved him first... also if he was going to get hanged. Then why did it take 3 months for it to happen? Oh yeah... because they weren’t. He was even in a prison. That means he’s labor. If he was going to hang. He’d be in the Saint Denis Police cells and sent to the gallows there. Not at a prison. As for Downs, it’s seems you don’t understand what “going behind Dutches” back means. Arthur did more then give them money. He actively helped Downs on multiple occasions. Including other people like the Indians. Time that he could otherwise use to help the gang. That is betrayel already. But beyond that. He also encourages people to leave. Talks treason with John and plots robbing EVERYONE EXCEPT John and Abigail blind with Abigail... Even before Dutch leaves him to die in Cornwall Tar.... So no, I haven’t manipulated 💩. You’re just brain 💀
@@terrencemoldern2756 Dutch had no plan to rescue John, he even admits that in the last camp in one of the camp fights. Where he tells John that John doubting him is the reason he told others to leave him rot in prison. And yes, John was going to get hanged, the guards were mentioning it. It's all right there in the game. As for Arthur betraying Dutch for putting his time into helping others instead of the gang is really a toxic thought. The man puts his life and soul into helping them but apparently taking time for his own redemption is a betrayal.
i hope rdr 3 retelling the story of Red harlow and making him meets the Van der linde gang trio and even interacting with them thus connecting the revolver story with redemption saga
Less innocent and more realistic Charles has known since day 1 that despite Dutch and the gang not being racist they’re still no good murderers but he sides with Arthur due to him wanting to help John escape this life
I think he was pretty fun in the intro, I liked his eccentricity. But he's waaaaaaaaay too loyal to Dutch, to a fault. I never saw this encounter and, I was genuinely saddened when he backed up to Dutch's side in the end
Yeah I think they were really hesitant with him due to him being the way he is in the first game. It's the safe bet but, I would've liked to see more from him
Doesn’t make sense that people don’t understand why Javier changes. It sucks yes but it makes sense. Before Guarma Javier had his doubts, just like Arthur and John. then when he was imprisoned on Guarma he was expecting to be left behind so that the rest could get back to the gang and therefore his loyalty in Dutch was replenished because Dutch went out of his way to save him in a very dire situation.
I just wish we’d gotten more of the rdr 1 Javier. John said in the first game that Javier took Dutch going crazy the hardest and it felt like everything he believed in was a fraud so he went insane with him, and i wish that they’d implemented it. Javier was even supposed to be in Leviticus Cornwall assassination mission along with Dutch, Arthur and Micah but they cut him out for whatever reason. Would be the perfect way to get more of a peek into what Javier was thinking during all of that
@@michaeljohn6357that's not what was said, he said and I quote "he took it the hardest of anyone" the rest is untrue.. Who ever told u that embellished.. Alot!
People seem to forget Javier has an almost dog-like loyalty to Dutch. Everyone else had loyalty but soon knew Dutch was practically leading them to their deaths. Javier however didnt seem to fear death. He’d happily die for Dutch before he abandons his father figure/mentor. Thats why he was so hurt that everyone else was questioning Dutch especially guys like John and Arthur knowing Dutch raised them.
There are instances where Javier was questioning Dutch's decisions though. I remember one was a hidden dialogue sometime at camp in Clemens Point, and then when the Gang's in a boat leaving Guarma. After that he's changed, I guess.
I always thought that Javier and Charles were similar characters. They were both wise and they championed their own people. It’s a shame that they diverged in chapter 6. Javier is like an anti-Charles lol.
You can catch javier and micah in chapter 6 whispering into each others ears if you try to approach or speak to either they stop and tell you "this is a private conversation" "about what?" "Plans." Then once you a far enough distance theyll start whispering again
What a lot of people don’t realise is that Javier is a very dangerous man, up there with the real tough guys in the gang. He comes across as very charming early on, but if you cross him then you’ll be lucky if he only puts a knife to your throat and not in it.
I quite liked him since he was singing at the gang party after Sean came back alive. I love Spanish, and his voice was beautiful. Also at the beginning of the game, when we go together with him to find john, he seemed like a fine person. He was kind and fine until Hosea died. Damn I wanna play this game again.
I absolutely still like Javier. This scene shows he's losing it to paranoia. He's like Bill. He needed the gang. As it started falling apart, he covered his ears and closed his eyes because he couldn't handle that it was falling apart. Anyone not doing the same, he saw as a threat. He chose to believe a convenient lie, that Dutch was fine, he would handle it, everything will be okay, that it is Arthur and John and anyone associating with them who are responsible for their problems. The ugly truth that his mentor had lost his mind and was cracking under pressure, that the life he had lived his whole life was rapidly ending was too much for him. Before that, Javier was one of the nicest, most helpful and self sacrificing members of the gang. And fiercly loyal, as shown twice: first when Lenny dies. He's the only one other than Arthur and maybe Charles who stops and looks at Lenny's body. He was visibly upset one of his comrades had died. Second, at the end, during the final stand off, Bill, Dutch, of course Micah and his two henchmen aim at John and Arthur. Javier aims at the sky. He sides with Dutch, but he still can't bring himself to aim a gun at an ally, at a friend, at his brothers. Once again, just like Bill, it makes me feel bad for the feral animal he basically ends up as at the end of his life in RDR1. He's sold out all his ideals, fights for nothing other than his own survival because the gang dissolving broke him. Everything he'd ever lived for turned out to be a lie.
I think what radically changed Javier was dutch saving him in guarma. He had been tortured for days so seeing dutch must have made him feel like he had a life debt. Notice how he never says anything about Dutch or Micah having good ideas, simply hating that people aren't staying loyal
It feels like Javier felt confused that he was putting faith into the wrong person, and I think he realizes that at the end when he holds his gun up, he’s all talk with Arthur and Charles but when push came to shove he didn’t wanna follow through with it, he only ever shoots at Pinkertons during (spoiler) Arthur’s last mission, and he never tries to harm John, he runs
@@johnwickspencil6180 Nah, I'd say shooting-wise Javier is probably better but Charles has that brute strength. I'm positive 90% of the gang wouldn't beat him in a fist fight.
There's a conversation in chapter 4 when Javier it's talking in the firecamp saying he knows Dutch has make weird and cuestionable choices lately but he still trust him and that's the problem in the end with him and Bill, they Were loyal to Dutch no matter what and they were blinded. Even tho they probably realized their mistake and that's why they didn't worked with him after that
Everyone was loyal to Dutch even John in Chapter 6. Arthur knocked sense into John after releasing/rescuing him from prison. Also, Arthurb told John to expect hostile behaviour from Dutch because John's rescue wasn’t 'Planned' by Dutch.
Bro charles lowkey is the guy i would start stuff with the last. Idk why but the way hes always calm and composed is so much more threatening than anything anyone else in the gang does
And when you go bison hunting with him and come across the hunters, you get to see un-calm and composed Charles in all his fury "What business is it of yours-" *Charles turning the guy's buddy into red paste* "IT'S THAT BUSINESS OF MINE!" Charles is absolutely ruthless when he needs to be, and I think he knows it.
I've never seen this after 2000 hours of gameplay, probably because it was after Guarma, Javier felt like he had to pick a side, but he was confused on the "why", so he just threw these empty threats
Damn, these are encounters that you very easily miss in the game. This goes into detail of the animosity that just increased throughout the game and ultimately showing which “side” the members would pick
The thing, this stuff can easily be missed. The first hours of Horseshoe Overlook I constantly checked out the camp and see what people had to say but later I did that less. Damn. I sure will do that a lot more for a second playthrough in the near future.
I mean the scene literally explains why "He's changed" Javier was actually a really likable character at the start and people probably would've missed this interaction as well
Guarma really messed everyone up, accelerated arthur's TB, pushed Dutch past the point of no return, ripped the soul from Javier, and hardened up bill even more. The only one who remained the same was Micah.
Javier seems so friendly in the second chapter, when he invites you for a fishing trip... It's pretty awkward seeing he being this hostile with the crew, after Guarma.
He is just like any other gang member. He is still loyal to Dutch and remember John was loyal too until Arthur talked sense to John after rescuing John from prison and said to him to expect a hostile response from Dutch.
I mean Javier at the end of the day is a bad guy. But he’s still a really unique and interesting character. Being a rebel and bounty hunter fighting against the Mexican army and his freedom fighting nature made him a good person early on. He was just torn down as his life went on and during his time in the Van Der Linde gang that he became a villain. He is a great example of the reverse of Arthur. Arthur was a bad guy who learned humanity and humility and became a good guy. Javier was a good guy who was torn down by society and governments and became a bad guy. Javier also Is a flawed man to begin with. While he’s done good things and been a good person before Guarma, he did so for SOME of the wrong reasons. Fame, glory, the “romantic” image applied to him as a freedom fighting vigilante gunslinger. John says it best in RDR1, Javier is a cynic who wants to be a Romantic. The fact is Javier might be antagonistic to the characters we like, but he’s still insanely layered and well written. Flaws and all Javier is just fucking cool.
I like Javier because he was genuinley caring to everyone else in the gang up until Chapter 6. I'm pretty sure he was trying to cope with Dutch's downfall, and Micah was most likely getting to him. ...Also Javier is hot and I would let him marry me ANY DAY now
It's really left a bitter taste how everyone on Dutch's side treats Arthur and all them. After *everything,* they treat eachother like the past few months had never happened because of some whispers and lies Micah spread amongst them, and it's heartbreaking.
I'm glad there are videos of these here. I barely saw any of them cause I fucking hated going to the camp. It was really annoying not being able to run.
Yeah i came across Javier at camp the other day and he acted hostile on me out of nowhere, I think they could've handled his "downfall" a little better, same with Dutch, kinda sad cuz I really was vibing with Javier most of the game :(
A lot of people like him cause they think he didn’t point his gun at Arthur in chapter 6 which isn’t even true because if you look at him just before the pinkertons start shooting you can see him aiming right at Arthur
He hesitates, unlike everyone else. He also apparently took it hardest when Dutch went crazy he likely only went against Arthur because he didn't think he'd survive if he did
Hosea's death, Lenny, Micah breaking up the band and causing conflict, Dutch screwing up basically everything, the atmosphere of death and despair, all these are factors why I think Javier ended up pretty bad after all, it's really not like there was insulted Charles, I think he was rather testing his loyalty even so, I think Javier is the way he is in RDR1 because seeing how Dutch ended up being a complete lie destroyed him inside
To be honest, I always felt like the whole tension in Beaver Hollow was a bit forced just to connect the events to RDR1. We can say that Dutch was vulnerable, lost it after the death of Hosea, was manipulated by Micah and so on. Yet out of nowhere, Bill and Javier turn into mini-Dutches. Being all paranoid, except it comes out of nowhere and for no reason. They're also seem heavily against Arthur, who proved his loyalty, while literally ignoring Micah shooting Grimshaw for a cheap kill.
RDR2 as a whole is severely disconnected from RDR1. John says they were a small group of ruthless outlaws yet there’s like 20 people in the gang half of which do nothing. Arthur gets a lot of what probably should be John’s accolades and is of course never mentioned in 1 which is odd considering canonically he has all of Arthur’s stuff and second father Hosea who also is omitted from RDR1. It honestly felt like the game wasn’t meant to be a direct prequel and they suddenly realized wait we got a lore to build to hence all the quick death from chapter 4 on to pare down to the main RDR1 cast
I think your issue here is severely underestimating the kind of psychological control Dutch wields over these people. Arthur and John end up being some of the strongest willed, most clear-headed characters in the gang. Not to mention that, if you pay attention, you can see the writers planting the seeds of Javier's and Bill's betrayal from early on. I do think they set it up well and I don't think it's "out of nowhere" whatsoever.
He was talking to Micah in Beaver Hollow and when Arthur approached him, they tried keeping their distance, Micah probably put something in his head, coupled with his blind loyalty toward Dutch (Which i perfectly understand since Dutch was the one who saved him) he went crazy too
@@Wveth Arthur, John and Lenny too being the most clear headed was to me, because they weren't only close with Dutch, but because of Hosea's influence too. Javier and Bill was so blind on following Dutch and to me they feel like more of a "Gunman" than an actual family to the gang because i never see them listening to Hosea.
I understand that javier had issues and felt like he owed dutch his loyalty but i always felt like the developers made him way too chill in the beginning because it felt like such a sudden and abrupt turn from ally to shithead
Its natural. Many people are normally chill, but when things starts getting bad, they show their agressive side. Hosea's death, conflict between Dutch and Arthur, Being chased, all of that was such a shock for Javier that there was no place for being chill, something snapped in his mind
i think javier starts to act like this cause of his story if you rember he killed a man in mexico and had to flee he was near starving to death and dutch took him in he clothed him fed him no one else ever treated him like that and he picked dutches side because he didnt want to go through everything all over again
Fucking hate that so many hyped that moment up, and it wasn't even true tbh. And regardless if it was true or not, he still is a piece of shit for siding with Dutch
He basicaly gets mad after being captured. I dont think he is a cynic nor a romantic, he just evolves, to a worse person. Just as Dutch does, it feels real and I love him as a character because of it even if he becomes a scumbag
I get confused about chapter 6 Javier every single playthrough because one minute the brudda seems to hate Arthur and is blunt with his responses in camp but the next minute he’s ending the coversation with lines like ‘you just take care of that cough brother’ in a caring tone and refuses to point his gun at Arthur and John in the final standoff
I like him, he is frustrated towards those who he thinks have the fault of the bands undoing, I really liked his demeanor throughout the game, and its dope when he sings by the campfire
Javier is liked because of nostalgia. We knew him from the first game, and it's nice to have parts from the first game in the prequel after so many years.
Javier before guarma is really good. I hate Sadie, i'm gonna type all of the person who is killed because of her, reply me if you want it. Because Sadie is the real antagonist in Red Dead Universe
Early into the game I knew I was gonna be sad because I knew where he ended up (from RDR1). He was so much fun to be around in the early chapters. It was always so bittersweet.
The reason people like him is detailed by Charles here- he’s changed. He owes his life to Dutch and is the most loyal of the group, as Dutch gets madder and sides with Micah Javier follows and sees it as the gang (with Dutch) and those going against the gang.
I like Javier just as much as the other guy, but there are just people like that in real life too, at one point they just switch sides from you with no remorse or emotion all the while they seemed like a cool person, no need to "Oh, he didn't point his gun at blahblah shootout blahblah" he is just a bad person, period. Disappointing i know, but so it is irl
That's how my cousin is. Him and his buddy were messing around, and his buddies girl came over and started saying something (they were drunk), and his buddy just let his girl run her mouth, and now my cousin absolutely DESPISES his "buddy" just because "he can't control his girl". It's really shocking how someone can go from really close friends to now one side wanting death on the other.
It completely makes sense. His character transformation is basically, 'How & why a good guy turns into a bad guy when his role model screws up everything and a random rat whispers into everyone's ears.'
It's like Javier only becomes bad because he HAS to. Up until this point he's been very open-minded, but now all of a sudden, he's blindly loyal to Dutch and he lashes out at John, Charles, and Arthur, for no real reason other than he has to be hunted down in the original game. Had Javier not been in the original game, I think he would have been killed in Saint Denis and it would be Lenny that would be influenced and blinded by Dutch.
Javier was a blowhard...cucking to Dutch and Micah, after all their screw ups and especially Dutch and his "plan", proved that...he was all smoke, no fire...
Nah Javier was way to experienced a gunslinger to be killed however I do believe he would have taken Arthur’s side in the end had rdr1 not came out first
To be honest this scene only existed because Javier was a nice guy for the most part of RDR2 and it wouldn't make sense why he would be one of the bad guys in RDR1
Because until chapter 6, Javier was a nice feller, he has style, and he sings well, scenes with him around the campfire were the best. Guarma changed him
Javier and bill both were loyal to dutch and they didnt ask any questions they knew he has changed and they changed as well better to say dutch show them his real face and javier and bill still were on his side and javier wasnt loyal he wasnt loyal to his brothers arthur and john some people say he was because he didnt point his gun which makes no sense if he was royal he would be on their side and bill thought the rat was john because pinkertones took him alive! And he had respect for arthur but after that he betrayed arthur and john
At the start of the game these two were the ones who seemed most like they had a sense of right and wrong. But out of all the characters, aside from Arthur himself, Javier was the one who changed the most by the end of the game. He became completely brainwashed by Dutch's delusions.
Anyone who really remembers Javier from Red Dead 1 never liked him. He curses Johns dead daughter after being caught. He worked for Colonel Allende who was everything Dutch pretends to be against, proving Javier had no real honor or values. Javier was scum in that game.
I think John summed it up in RDR1. "Javier is a cynic, pretending to be a romantic." Many seem to fall for the act, including Javier himself.
‘’While you John Marston, are a romantic who wants to be a cynic’’ - Abraham Reyes
@@michaeljohn6357 Reyes was kind of right considering how John acts in RDR2, especially the epilogue. They made him a lot softer of a character, which makes me think rdr1 could just all be John's tough-guy act.
@@ComedicPausehe is just glad to have a better life
@@ComedicPauseI like to think that after Arthurs death John is last member of Dutchs Boys who follows the original rules and morols of the gang. And as Arthur said. Be a goddamn man. With Arthur gone it was time for John to grow up and take responsibility and rely on himself. It's great that John and Arthur die the same way. Holding them off so the others can get away
I don't think John knows what he's talking about. Javier seemed a romantic through and through, and sometimes the two are one and the same.
Remember, John has his reads on everyone, but that doesn't make them true.
Javier, for most of the game, actually seemed like a decent fellow. He was respectful to the others, straightforward and loyal to the gang. He went out with Arthur to find John at the beginning of the game out of genuine concern.
It was only after Guarma that he started getting hostile. It was probably because Dutch started losing his grip on the situation and Javier couldn’t deal with the fact that his loyalty might have been misplaced. John even mentions in RDR1 that Javier took it harder than anyone else when Dutch went crazy. Javier was conflicted more than anything. He let that conflict get the better of him.
They also kinda had to set him up like this because hes one of the guys being hunted by john in rdr1
A cynic who desperately wanna be a romantic.
@@DonHaci I haven't played RDR1, but I thought that wasn't really personal, it was just John had to choose between Javier and getting his family back.
I thought it was bill who took Dutch’s downfall the hardest in RDR1
@@0pus.ge131 Bill stepped up and took charge of his own gang after Dutch's fall. Ironically, the way the Van der Linde gang treated Bill is why he ended up the way he is in RDR1.
Javier literally sounded like an Oblivion npc just shooting off random sentences meanwhile Charles was replying like someone trying to make sense of it while also not really caring lol
Blind loyalty
Javier seems drunk
Ur right, his sentences seemed so random, like they didn’t connect to each other or to what Charles was saying at all
Agreed@@redrangers12330
Javier: !
Charles: ?
“Should’ve let him die in Guarma….little sack of sh*t”
Bro that’s so deep and sad from Arthur saying that
I got this scene in my playthrough but don't remember arthur saying that? Is that like a honour thing how he responds do you know?
@@carlinytc7431 Greet vs Antagonise
He’s right. They should have let him die in Guarma. Actually, John and Arthur should have killed him up in those mountains.
@@carlinytc7431 I’ve seen some people say it’s based on your honor and I’ve seen others say it’s based on whether you select greet or antagonize when prompted with this dialogue. I think it’s honor related, because Arthur isn’t really antagonizing Charles when he called Javier a piece of shit.
Low honour dialogue
Damn I remember getting this encounter but never heard Arthur say "We should of let him die in Guarma" before that's deep.
The dialogue changes based on your honor level
@@stcknoobs5516 no
Dont Greet Charles immediately
@@stcknoobs5516 No it doesn’t, stop lying
@@conner1260 google is free and easy to use, literally a simple Google search would tell you that author's dialogue changes based on his honor, stop meat riding and take less than a minute to do quick research, have you ever actually played red dead before?
Knowledge gaps are what make this chapter so uncomfortable. People in camp keep chatting random crap and expecting you to know what they are talking about, which leaves the feeling of, "What am I missing? What is going on here?" Because you know Micah is filling everyone's head with lies and dividing the gang into those he thinks he can use and those he wants gone. You know people are talking behind your back, but you don't really know what is being said.
Thats an excellent way of describing it. Camp went from a welcoming, comfortable, and warm place to go for a respite from all the excitement to being the most tense, shitty and unpleasant place to be.
That's actually clever from Rockstar because they know the player will want to spend less time in camp as the atmosphere is so unpleasant so they'll go off doing side quests, hunting, treasure maps etc. So it feels like a lot of shit is being said behind your back when you're away
@@j-skullz Good point. I did actively avoid camp at this point in the game for that reason. I remember hanging around camp a lot in Chapter 2. Hated the energy at this point in the game, but I mean that in a good way. They designed it to feel shitty, and they did good.
That’s how it’s realistic in a way
It's just mental how they turn on Arthur. Shows how weak they were. Dutch pushef Arthur away because he knew he would keep calling him out where as Micah was feeding his hate. Also made it easier for Dutch to blame others as traitors because he knew it was getting harder to run with all the noncombatants in the group
I just imagine after the ending Arthur saying “Well, I should be getting on” lol
OK I'LL CATCH YOU LATER THEN
OK I’LL CATCH YOU LATER THEN
OK I'LL CATCH YOU LATER THEN
OK I’LL CATCH YOU LATER THEN
OK I'LL CATCH YOU LATER THEN
charles' shotgun is so cool
Jav
I know right!! 🔥🔥😎😎
lol but no one uses them. It’s either pistols or a rifle
Euw i hate it also Charles should wear something more modern he always wanted to be this Native American djungle surviving dude like drop the act and just put on a shirt and vest i wanted the gang to dress a little fancier almost like the Italian mob or like bounty hunters dress not Arthur walking around with a blue shirt that has gotten brown because of dirt and Dutch armpit being brown of smell only one dressed good was Javier
All of his gun handles look sick. Don't think I saw the rest
Javier was a loyal member of the group and he cared for everyone. He was conflicted after Dutch went crazy. And even when he stood with Dutch in the final mission he aimed towards the sky and not towards Arthur or John. He looked up to Arthur and believed he would never turn them over.
But he still stood with them and went along. He spoke of loyalty but wernt loyal to Arthur or John who didn't do anything wrong. All the they did was point out the truth.
@@jedibateman9452he was strongly believe inn Dutch words remmber Strong Or Weak
@@olechristianhenne6583 loyal to one disloyal to another. Blind loyalty as they say. He either couldn't see or ingnored Dutchs hypocrisy
@@jedibateman9452bro he was loyal to his father (dutch), both sides of that fight were wrong if u didnt knew micah was a rat
Idk, to me Javier just seemed like an idiot in rdr2. Maybe I didn’t talk to him enough in camp or something or didn’t get to know him enough before he just talked about loyalty all the time
Honestly, my biggest problem with chapter six was how quickly people turned on Arthur. He literally Just saved Javier's life and he's already talking to him like that. What the hell? "What happened to Loyalty?" I guess it got left back in Guarma.
It pissed me off having these people mouth off to me in camp after all the crap I did with and for them the whole game.
And, Charles and Sadie are the main reason these people had a gang to go back to. I mean dang.
Him and Bill etc were just unable to see reality, they were too loyal to Dutch and it blinded them, got brainwashed to believe everything was going to plan and the others were becoming traitors when it was the opposite
To be fair not everyone turned. Some saw the writing on the wall and got out while they still could like Pearson, Mary-Beth, Tilly, ect.
@@easternrebel1061 Yeah I know, and I'm glad, but still... the people who sided with Micah against Arthur, Dutch, Bill and Javier. (Forgetting anyone?(and Yeah I know Bill and Javier were following Dutch but still...)
I get that Dutch is losing it and Bill's an A-hole, but why are he and Javier mouthing off to Arthur. Especially RIGHT After Guarma.
@@cameronwiley9412Cause Arthur is dead already .. His opinion means lil! We still treat ppl that way in the western world..
@@cameronwiley9412Because Arthur was going against Dutches/ Micah’s plans and Javier had more loyalty to Dutch then Arthur so he sided with Dutch.
Well seeing that he barely escaped with his life from Guarma recently and that the gang is very much on edge after the disaster in Saint Denis I dont think the sudden change in Javier's character is necessarily implemented in an unbelievable way.
He's very much loyal to Dutch and disappointed that folk are openly criticizing him in the vulnerable situation they are in. He probably feels he owes Dutch his life for prioritizing to save him at Guarma too.
Thats a good perspective but arthur also saved him so it doesnt exactly work.
loyalty has its costs.
Be loyal to a hero or a piece of shit who lost his mind.
Javier picked the pos in favor of wealth.
@@A_piece_of_broccoli not because of wealth Dutch has done much more for Javier than Arthur but in the game when it comes to money Arthur was the bread winner he was the most effective making most money but shared everything with the gang if both Dutch and Arthur lived i believe Arthur would be the wealthier although i cant deny Dutch had a silver tounge
@@yayvey This ^
@@yayveyThen he becomes just as slimey and weasely as Bill Williamson somehow lol
@@A_piece_of_broccolieveryone knows Arthur is dying as well so his worth and value long term is practically zero at this point. Is what made it easier for Micah to turn everyone on him.
I love Javier’s character in RDR 2, only wish he had a bigger role in the story but i’ve heard that was originally the case, but the script didn’t match Javier’s actor views on him. RDR 1 has a plothole because it says that Javier was the person who went just as mad as dutch and they intended it to be this way but the actor insisted that they’d change it for his character, which is a shame, would be cool to see the real crazy side of Javier
They wrote him really well for the little missions he has, you don’t really see him as a bad person but you can tell through all the missions with him that something isn’t entirely right with him, he’s a little weird, perhaps wired. So it doesn’t come as a complete shock when he changes
Never played the first so i liked him since when they go to rescue John.
where did you learn this?
@@Kronos0999 bruh you haven't lived if you haven't played the first one
@@cameronadey7004 RDR2 dragged on too long to start with.
How was he weird?? He seemed real feminine but not weird until after guarma
The reason so many people like Javier is because they barely spent any time in camp during chapter 6, so they missed all of his "bad guy" camp interactions (antagonizing Abigail/Uncle/Charles, conspiring with Micah, suspecting John is the rat...).
You can clearly see chapter 6 Javier transitioning into RDR 1 Javier during those moments, but it's sadly easy to miss if you don't visit camp regularly.
Well a few interactions in chapter 6 is a big contrast from all the good times you have with him in every chapter before. I mean, he’s set up to be a likable character. I remember I’d be at camp some nights and drop everything if I heard a guitar strum, because I knew Javier was playing and everyone would be singing. He’s genuinely a fun loyal guy that Arthur liked too. It’s just his loyalty to Dutch was all he knew and so he resented everyone and felt betrayed when everything was falling apart.
He did become a bad person and deserved what became of him, but he was a good person at some point too
I don’t see how Javier is wrong...
Like it or not. He’s justified in his suspicions of Charles and Arthur both. Charles and Arthur by this point of the story are helping the Wapiti Reservation FACTUALLY MORE then the gang even. Which is something completely Alien to a gang of OutLaws.
So really I don’t see what you all are getting at with calling Javier out. You as the players are the hypocrites and liars to yourselves about who you are. Even to the point that you lot are willing to pretend that Dutch betrayed Arthur when factually Arthur breaking John out of Prison, Helping the Natives more then the gang, running his own affairs with the Downs Family, trying to convince people to abandon the gang (Dutch effectively) and so on...
Are ACTUAL examples of betrayal. Always gets me twisted how people are shocked by the events in this chapter. We as the players have front row seats... yet never recognize how OUR actions lead to much of these scenarios.
@@terrencemoldern2756 Is your name Dutch? Because you're very good at manipulating it all to make it all seem like Dutch is the victim and good guy when he's not. Because Dutch didn't go back to help John, when he said he would. And then he was going to let John hang, and got angry when Sadie and Arthur saved their family member. As for the Down's family, Arthur was dying and he gave his own money to them, that's not going behind Dutch's back. Arthur is trying to save people, because Dutch will get them all killed but sure, Arthur is the one doing the betraying.
@@deleila_charlie2068 sounds like nothing but excuses to not consider my arguments.
Dutch was going to save John. It’s just that Arthur and Sadie saved him first... also if he was going to get hanged. Then why did it take 3 months for it to happen? Oh yeah... because they weren’t. He was even in a prison. That means he’s labor. If he was going to hang. He’d be in the Saint Denis Police cells and sent to the gallows there. Not at a prison.
As for Downs, it’s seems you don’t understand what “going behind Dutches” back means. Arthur did more then give them money. He actively helped Downs on multiple occasions. Including other people like the Indians. Time that he could otherwise use to help the gang. That is betrayel already. But beyond that. He also encourages people to leave. Talks treason with John and plots robbing EVERYONE EXCEPT John and Abigail blind with Abigail...
Even before Dutch leaves him to die in Cornwall Tar....
So no, I haven’t manipulated 💩. You’re just brain 💀
@@terrencemoldern2756 Dutch had no plan to rescue John, he even admits that in the last camp in one of the camp fights. Where he tells John that John doubting him is the reason he told others to leave him rot in prison. And yes, John was going to get hanged, the guards were mentioning it. It's all right there in the game.
As for Arthur betraying Dutch for putting his time into helping others instead of the gang is really a toxic thought. The man puts his life and soul into helping them but apparently taking time for his own redemption is a betrayal.
Javier in Chapters:
Chapter 1-4: 😎
Chapter 5-6: 🤡💩
Javier in RDR1: 💀
RDR1 Javier: 👹😈☠️
bro is describing the rdr series 1 emoji at a time. respect
@@CatchTheMarmosetsJavier in RDR1:🏃♂️
clown shit indeed.
I want a full game with Charles as protagonist. And for him to not die at the end.
Agreed
I think Red Dead main character was supposed to died at the end (except Revolver), so that doesn't make sense.
@@nerddd701 He meant he wouldn't want Charles to be killed off if he had his own game.
i hope rdr 3 retelling the story of Red harlow and making him meets the Van der linde gang trio and even interacting with them thus connecting the revolver story with redemption saga
@@bristleback3614 Rdr3 should be about Jack Marston
"Are there sides now?"
Charles is so Innocent. 😄
Less innocent and more realistic Charles has known since day 1 that despite Dutch and the gang not being racist they’re still no good murderers but he sides with Arthur due to him wanting to help John escape this life
Charles isn’t innocent, he knows exactly what’s going on, he’s being very deliberate with his word choice.
He is being sarcastic.
I think he was pretty fun in the intro, I liked his eccentricity. But he's waaaaaaaaay too loyal to Dutch, to a fault. I never saw this encounter and, I was genuinely saddened when he backed up to Dutch's side in the end
he didn't have a bigger role in the story thats why his character is awful
Yeah I think they were really hesitant with him due to him being the way he is in the first game. It's the safe bet but, I would've liked to see more from him
fun fact: he didnt even point his gun at arthur and john, he pointed it into the air instead
@@watchmychannelorelse fun fact, he points it at them
@@watchmychannelorelse watch the whole clip and you’ll see he literally DOES point his gun at them he just moves his position first
Doesn’t make sense that people don’t understand why Javier changes. It sucks yes but it makes sense. Before Guarma Javier had his doubts, just like Arthur and John. then when he was imprisoned on Guarma he was expecting to be left behind so that the rest could get back to the gang and therefore his loyalty in Dutch was replenished because Dutch went out of his way to save him in a very dire situation.
I just wish we’d gotten more of the rdr 1 Javier. John said in the first game that Javier took Dutch going crazy the hardest and it felt like everything he believed in was a fraud so he went insane with him, and i wish that they’d implemented it. Javier was even supposed to be in Leviticus Cornwall assassination mission along with Dutch, Arthur and Micah but they cut him out for whatever reason. Would be the perfect way to get more of a peek into what Javier was thinking during all of that
@@michaeljohn6357that's not what was said, he said and I quote "he took it the hardest of anyone" the rest is untrue.. Who ever told u that embellished.. Alot!
@@savannahpaige3670done some research, I assume
0:45 Did he just spit on Charles? He is lucky that his face did not meet the edge of the hammer.
I like him but that was low
That's why John spits on Javier RDR1.
*Spits at him
We love him because of how he was before Guarma, he's actually a cool guy in chapter 1-4. Like Charles said, "he's changed"
Even on the boat back to the states he was good untl ducth made his speech and put him back in his place
People seem to forget Javier has an almost dog-like loyalty to Dutch. Everyone else had loyalty but soon knew Dutch was practically leading them to their deaths. Javier however didnt seem to fear death. He’d happily die for Dutch before he abandons his father figure/mentor. Thats why he was so hurt that everyone else was questioning Dutch especially guys like John and Arthur knowing Dutch raised them.
There are instances where Javier was questioning Dutch's decisions though. I remember one was a hidden dialogue sometime at camp in Clemens Point, and then when the Gang's in a boat leaving Guarma. After that he's changed, I guess.
Now know body knows what this comment was
His voice is good for everything
he's also the voice actor for sekiro and bode from star wars.. really good
I think he also voiced the demons from Marvel's Spider-Man PS4.
@@FunnyRedemption he also voiced a goddamn burger king ad
Edit: My bad it was a taco bell ad
@@Prendergheist Can't forget about that one.
I always thought that Javier and Charles were similar characters. They were both wise and they championed their own people. It’s a shame that they diverged in chapter 6. Javier is like an anti-Charles lol.
LMFAO
Guarma changed Javier quite a bit, u can even catch him and Micah getting along which to me was the true downfall of Javier's character
You can catch javier and micah in chapter 6 whispering into each others ears if you try to approach or speak to either they stop and tell you "this is a private conversation" "about what?" "Plans." Then once you a far enough distance theyll start whispering again
And once javier leaves the table micah begins to praise him saying "that boy is not dumb at all. Not dumb at all."
He starting to be the Javier in rdr1
What a lot of people don’t realise is that Javier is a very dangerous man, up there with the real tough guys in the gang. He comes across as very charming early on, but if you cross him then you’ll be lucky if he only puts a knife to your throat and not in it.
Nah Javier is a subpar gunslinger and extremely weak fighter. Micah in his dressing gown easily beats Javier any day, let alone Arthur.
@@gmebusiness437Micah was actually a really good duelist though. They did him dirty on american venom where he misses all those shots at john.
@@gmebusiness437Micah is a better gunslinger than Arthur.
ranking IMO goes Arthur Charles Micah/Javier/late game sadie tied, Hosea, lenny and then bill/uncle lol
what makes you say that? Arthur is said to be the best gun in the gang@@pitamberarora6232
If Micah came up to Charles like that he wouldve died
I quite liked him since he was singing at the gang party after Sean came back alive. I love Spanish, and his voice was beautiful. Also at the beginning of the game, when we go together with him to find john, he seemed like a fine person. He was kind and fine until Hosea died. Damn I wanna play this game again.
I absolutely still like Javier. This scene shows he's losing it to paranoia. He's like Bill. He needed the gang. As it started falling apart, he covered his ears and closed his eyes because he couldn't handle that it was falling apart. Anyone not doing the same, he saw as a threat. He chose to believe a convenient lie, that Dutch was fine, he would handle it, everything will be okay, that it is Arthur and John and anyone associating with them who are responsible for their problems.
The ugly truth that his mentor had lost his mind and was cracking under pressure, that the life he had lived his whole life was rapidly ending was too much for him.
Before that, Javier was one of the nicest, most helpful and self sacrificing members of the gang. And fiercly loyal, as shown twice: first when Lenny dies. He's the only one other than Arthur and maybe Charles who stops and looks at Lenny's body. He was visibly upset one of his comrades had died. Second, at the end, during the final stand off, Bill, Dutch, of course Micah and his two henchmen aim at John and Arthur. Javier aims at the sky. He sides with Dutch, but he still can't bring himself to aim a gun at an ally, at a friend, at his brothers.
Once again, just like Bill, it makes me feel bad for the feral animal he basically ends up as at the end of his life in RDR1. He's sold out all his ideals, fights for nothing other than his own survival because the gang dissolving broke him. Everything he'd ever lived for turned out to be a lie.
And then Dutch proceeds to abandon him and Bill the second the Pinkerton detective agency hit the camp and run away with MICAH OF ALL PEOPLE!!!
Javier was completely rewritten for this game. You don't even recognize he is the same person that you chased as John in RDR1
also in rdr1, Javier is a bit shorter and has speedy gonzales stereotypical looks on him
@@bristleback3614 wtf do you mean speedy gonzales?
@@justice_of_RUclips big sombrero and typical mexican thick moustache
@@justice_of_RUclipslike a stereotypical mexican
@@justice_of_RUclips So Mexican
I've never seen this encounter before. Certainly shines a different light on Javier who always seemed so decent.
I think what radically changed Javier was dutch saving him in guarma. He had been tortured for days so seeing dutch must have made him feel like he had a life debt. Notice how he never says anything about Dutch or Micah having good ideas, simply hating that people aren't staying loyal
It feels like Javier felt confused that he was putting faith into the wrong person, and I think he realizes that at the end when he holds his gun up, he’s all talk with Arthur and Charles but when push came to shove he didn’t wanna follow through with it, he only ever shoots at Pinkertons during (spoiler) Arthur’s last mission, and he never tries to harm John, he runs
I love how calm and collected Charles is, him and Arthur are by far my favourite characters in the game.
"oh you wanna die?" javier says as if he could even stand a chance against charles
he could
@@johnwickspencil6180 Nah, I'd say shooting-wise Javier is probably better but Charles has that brute strength. I'm positive 90% of the gang wouldn't beat him in a fist fight.
I think he meant that by being disloyal he’s more likely to die than following Dutch. Obviously he was wrong
Javier only changed because of dutch and guarma and in chapter two he’s amazing that’s one of the reasons I don’t move chapter after ch 1
There's a conversation in chapter 4 when Javier it's talking in the firecamp saying he knows Dutch has make weird and cuestionable choices lately but he still trust him and that's the problem in the end with him and Bill, they Were loyal to Dutch no matter what and they were blinded. Even tho they probably realized their mistake and that's why they didn't worked with him after that
Everyone was loyal to Dutch even John in Chapter 6. Arthur knocked sense into John after releasing/rescuing him from prison. Also, Arthurb told John to expect hostile behaviour from Dutch because John's rescue wasn’t 'Planned' by Dutch.
Bro charles lowkey is the guy i would start stuff with the last. Idk why but the way hes always calm and composed is so much more threatening than anything anyone else in the gang does
And when you go bison hunting with him and come across the hunters, you get to see un-calm and composed Charles in all his fury
"What business is it of yours-"
*Charles turning the guy's buddy into red paste*
"IT'S THAT BUSINESS OF MINE!"
Charles is absolutely ruthless when he needs to be, and I think he knows it.
I've never seen this after 2000 hours of gameplay, probably because it was after Guarma, Javier felt like he had to pick a side, but he was confused on the "why", so he just threw these empty threats
Damn, these are encounters that you very easily miss in the game. This goes into detail of the animosity that just increased throughout the game and ultimately showing which “side” the members would pick
Even Charles says "he's changed"
A lot of people like Javier for who he was at the beginning, not who he became in the end.
Half expected the guy to use his mods to shoot Javier's head off
The thing, this stuff can easily be missed. The first hours of Horseshoe Overlook I constantly checked out the camp and see what people had to say but later I did that less. Damn. I sure will do that a lot more for a second playthrough in the near future.
Yaaaa I was very surprised at this interaction.. Javier actually made
Me forget he was even in RDR1
I think they put it in here to remind people
after arthur said that he shouldve let him die in guarma it hit me hard af
I mean the scene literally explains why
"He's changed"
Javier was actually a really likable character at the start and people probably would've missed this interaction as well
Guarma really messed everyone up, accelerated arthur's TB, pushed Dutch past the point of no return, ripped the soul from Javier, and hardened up bill even more.
The only one who remained the same was Micah.
Javier seems so friendly in the second chapter, when he invites you for a fishing trip... It's pretty awkward seeing he being this hostile with the crew, after Guarma.
I always decline, fuck speedy
He is just like any other gang member. He is still loyal to Dutch and remember John was loyal too until Arthur talked sense to John after rescuing John from prison and said to him to expect a hostile response from Dutch.
Fr that fishing trip makes it feel so sad to see how he changed and what happened
I mean Javier at the end of the day is a bad guy. But he’s still a really unique and interesting character. Being a rebel and bounty hunter fighting against the Mexican army and his freedom fighting nature made him a good person early on. He was just torn down as his life went on and during his time in the Van Der Linde gang that he became a villain. He is a great example of the reverse of Arthur. Arthur was a bad guy who learned humanity and humility and became a good guy. Javier was a good guy who was torn down by society and governments and became a bad guy. Javier also Is a flawed man to begin with. While he’s done good things and been a good person before Guarma, he did so for SOME of the wrong reasons. Fame, glory, the “romantic” image applied to him as a freedom fighting vigilante gunslinger. John says it best in RDR1, Javier is a cynic who wants to be a Romantic. The fact is Javier might be antagonistic to the characters we like, but he’s still insanely layered and well written. Flaws and all Javier is just fucking cool.
I like Javier because he was genuinley caring to everyone else in the gang up until Chapter 6. I'm pretty sure he was trying to cope with Dutch's downfall, and Micah was most likely getting to him.
...Also Javier is hot and I would let him marry me ANY DAY now
Arthur saying he should have left him to die in guarma damn
People that like Javier or think he would've sided with John and Arthur simply didn't interact with him enough towards the end of the game
EXACTLY
It's really left a bitter taste how everyone on Dutch's side treats Arthur and all them. After *everything,* they treat eachother like the past few months had never happened because of some whispers and lies Micah spread amongst them, and it's heartbreaking.
I'm glad there are videos of these here. I barely saw any of them cause I fucking hated going to the camp. It was really annoying not being able to run.
I think that's just Javier's paranoia beginning to build. Just think of where we find Javier in Red dead 1, locked in a fortress
Charles is just so calm and patient all the time
Man, I really hope Charles found a nice lady in Canada and had a good life. He was the best of the gang.
Dude fell for his own ruse. This is the moment everything changed.
Arthur, John, Hosea, Trelawny, Sadie, & Charles the GOATS.
dont forget lenny, sean and kieran
“AnYwAy, gUeSs I’lL sEe yOU laTeR tHen.”
Yeah i came across Javier at camp the other day and he acted hostile on me out of nowhere, I think they could've handled his "downfall" a little better, same with Dutch, kinda sad cuz I really was vibing with Javier most of the game :(
Dutch was losing it in St. Denis. That bank heist going wrong broke the gang.
Javier just showed his true colors like Dutch
A lot of people like him cause they think he didn’t point his gun at Arthur in chapter 6 which isn’t even true because if you look at him just before the pinkertons start shooting you can see him aiming right at Arthur
Exactly 😂
Also everyone ignores the fact that he literally left John to die along with Dutch and Micah
@@sharksowneverything1 And he also left Abigail and Arthur both to die by pinkertons on that same day
He hesitates, unlike everyone else. He also apparently took it hardest when Dutch went crazy he likely only went against Arthur because he didn't think he'd survive if he did
@@sharksowneverything1 nah he left everyone when John and Arthur are getting chased by Dutch and Micah on horses heavier isn’t there
I've never seen that interaction before. Arthur's response was very unexpected as well. Cold but true.
Hosea's death, Lenny, Micah breaking up the band and causing conflict, Dutch screwing up basically everything, the atmosphere of death and despair, all these are factors why I think Javier ended up pretty bad after all, it's really not like there was insulted Charles, I think he was rather testing his loyalty even so, I think Javier is the way he is in RDR1 because seeing how Dutch ended up being a complete lie destroyed him inside
To be honest, I always felt like the whole tension in Beaver Hollow was a bit forced just to connect the events to RDR1.
We can say that Dutch was vulnerable, lost it after the death of Hosea, was manipulated by Micah and so on.
Yet out of nowhere, Bill and Javier turn into mini-Dutches. Being all paranoid, except it comes out of nowhere and for no reason. They're also seem heavily against Arthur, who proved his loyalty, while literally ignoring Micah shooting Grimshaw for a cheap kill.
RDR2 as a whole is severely disconnected from RDR1. John says they were a small group of ruthless outlaws yet there’s like 20 people in the gang half of which do nothing. Arthur gets a lot of what probably should be John’s accolades and is of course never mentioned in 1 which is odd considering canonically he has all of Arthur’s stuff and second father Hosea who also is omitted from RDR1. It honestly felt like the game wasn’t meant to be a direct prequel and they suddenly realized wait we got a lore to build to hence all the quick death from chapter 4 on to pare down to the main RDR1 cast
@@Mr92094 I mean... To be fair, the group was pretty small, at least compared to the hundreds upon hundreds of O'Driscoll guys I decimated ;)
I think your issue here is severely underestimating the kind of psychological control Dutch wields over these people. Arthur and John end up being some of the strongest willed, most clear-headed characters in the gang. Not to mention that, if you pay attention, you can see the writers planting the seeds of Javier's and Bill's betrayal from early on. I do think they set it up well and I don't think it's "out of nowhere" whatsoever.
He was talking to Micah in Beaver Hollow and when Arthur approached him, they tried keeping their distance, Micah probably put something in his head, coupled with his blind loyalty toward Dutch (Which i perfectly understand since Dutch was the one who saved him) he went crazy too
@@Wveth Arthur, John and Lenny too being the most clear headed was to me, because they weren't only close with Dutch, but because of Hosea's influence too. Javier and Bill was so blind on following Dutch and to me they feel like more of a "Gunman" than an actual family to the gang because i never see them listening to Hosea.
I understand that javier had issues and felt like he owed dutch his loyalty but i always felt like the developers made him way too chill in the beginning because it felt like such a sudden and abrupt turn from ally to shithead
Its natural. Many people are normally chill, but when things starts getting bad, they show their agressive side. Hosea's death, conflict between Dutch and Arthur, Being chased, all of that was such a shock for Javier that there was no place for being chill, something snapped in his mind
Charles could’ve folded dude in 2 seconds lmfao
it hurts to hear arthur say that about javier bro they were best friends
Wouldn't exactly call them BEST friends. Maybe just good friends.
Nah. Charles (respect) and Sean (funny) are much better.
i think javier starts to act like this cause of his story if you rember he killed a man in mexico and had to flee he was near starving to death and dutch took him in he clothed him fed him no one else ever treated him like that and he picked dutches side because he didnt want to go through everything all over again
“But hE dIdn’t aiM HIS GUn AT JOHN and Arthur”
Everyone says that but he actually did in the last shot before the shooting starts lol
Fucking hate that so many hyped that moment up, and it wasn't even true tbh. And regardless if it was true or not, he still is a piece of shit for siding with Dutch
Charles is like Brad Pitt in Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, he is that loyal friend Leo needs.
he was hurt and blinded by dutch
He basicaly gets mad after being captured. I dont think he is a cynic nor a romantic, he just evolves, to a worse person. Just as Dutch does, it feels real and I love him as a character because of it even if he becomes a scumbag
I get confused about chapter 6 Javier every single playthrough because one minute the brudda seems to hate Arthur and is blunt with his responses in camp but the next minute he’s ending the coversation with lines like ‘you just take care of that cough brother’ in a caring tone and refuses to point his gun at Arthur and John in the final standoff
I think the cough comment is a more passive-aggressive/backhanded version of Micah calling Arthur "Blacklung", honestly.
It is@@wonkygaming3151
"Okay I'll catch you later then."
I like him, he is frustrated towards those who he thinks have the fault of the bands undoing, I really liked his demeanor throughout the game, and its dope when he sings by the campfire
Funny considering he abandons Dutch at the end, fleeing with Bill instead of staying to fight the Pinkertons and Arthur
This might be the chapter that I hate the most because of what happens next😢
Javier is liked because of nostalgia. We knew him from the first game, and it's nice to have parts from the first game in the prequel after so many years.
0:23 me to people who like Javier
Nah people who defend Dutch and only blame Micah
Javier before guarma is really good. I hate Sadie, i'm gonna type all of the person who is killed because of her, reply me if you want it. Because Sadie is the real antagonist in Red Dead Universe
@@nerddd701 In my Palpatine voice: Do it!
@@mr.finesser6303 no 🤡
@@justice_of_RUclips yes 🤡
Like he said “he changed”
Early into the game I knew I was gonna be sad because I knew where he ended up (from RDR1). He was so much fun to be around in the early chapters. It was always so bittersweet.
Charles gives the answer in the video.
"He's changed".
The reason people like him is detailed by Charles here- he’s changed. He owes his life to Dutch and is the most loyal of the group, as Dutch gets madder and sides with Micah Javier follows and sees it as the gang (with Dutch) and those going against the gang.
In my playthrough, javier was no more than a chill guy
I like Javier just as much as the other guy, but there are just people like that in real life too, at one point they just switch sides from you with no remorse or emotion all the while they seemed like a cool person, no need to "Oh, he didn't point his gun at blahblah shootout blahblah" he is just a bad person, period. Disappointing i know, but so it is irl
Exactly and that's what Javier fanboys can't understand
That's how my cousin is. Him and his buddy were messing around, and his buddies girl came over and started saying something (they were drunk), and his buddy just let his girl run her mouth, and now my cousin absolutely DESPISES his "buddy" just because "he can't control his girl". It's really shocking how someone can go from really close friends to now one side wanting death on the other.
javier is a scared little man who sided with power
@@chuggon7595 it actually sounds like your buddy is jealous if he can't get past that super minor altercation
what makes him an objectively bad person? I doubt his crimes are worse than Arthurs or Johns🤷🏽♀️
Charles is the kind of man i want to be
In the origional rdr he wasn't too likeable. Probably why they had to make him turn into an ass in the prequel.
But they only changed him in the last chapter
It completely makes sense. His character transformation is basically, 'How & why a good guy turns into a bad guy when his role model screws up everything and a random rat whispers into everyone's ears.'
Charles would have twisted Javier up like a pretzel.
It's like Javier only becomes bad because he HAS to. Up until this point he's been very open-minded, but now all of a sudden, he's blindly loyal to Dutch and he lashes out at John, Charles, and Arthur, for no real reason other than he has to be hunted down in the original game. Had Javier not been in the original game, I think he would have been killed in Saint Denis and it would be Lenny that would be influenced and blinded by Dutch.
Javier was a blowhard...cucking to Dutch and Micah, after all their screw ups and especially Dutch and his "plan", proved that...he was all smoke, no fire...
Nah Javier was way to experienced a gunslinger to be killed however I do believe he would have taken Arthur’s side in the end had rdr1 not came out first
@@ianloeb1672 You're right. That's a problem with prequels, you have very little freedom to move your characters about because of what came before.
Lenny was one of the few that saw through Dutch's bs why would he be influenced and blinded by him?
@@NicoR24601 not everything Dutch said, was mindless crap
To be honest this scene only existed because Javier was a nice guy for the most part of RDR2 and it wouldn't make sense why he would be one of the bad guys in RDR1
He was alright for most of the game but John’s description of him in rdr1 to captain Sanchez (I think) really rings true in chapter 6
Because 90% of players did not saw this dialogue
Because until chapter 6, Javier was a nice feller, he has style, and he sings well, scenes with him around the campfire were the best. Guarma changed him
Guarma didn't change him I think it was the whole divide in chapter 6 he was always going to side with dutch
Javier and bill both were loyal to dutch and they didnt ask any questions they knew he has changed and they changed as well better to say dutch show them his real face and javier and bill still were on his side and javier wasnt loyal he wasnt loyal to his brothers arthur and john some people say he was because he didnt point his gun which makes no sense if he was royal he would be on their side and bill thought the rat was john because pinkertones took him alive! And he had respect for arthur but after that he betrayed arthur and john
At the start of the game these two were the ones who seemed most like they had a sense of right and wrong.
But out of all the characters, aside from Arthur himself, Javier was the one who changed the most by the end of the game. He became completely brainwashed by Dutch's delusions.
They are criminals.
Criminals have a so-called code until it’s no longer convenient for them.
javier only doesn’t make sense cause the actor they got to play him
He's bad but not the worst person you choose to spend your time with
Anyone who really remembers Javier from Red Dead 1 never liked him. He curses Johns dead daughter after being caught. He worked for Colonel Allende who was everything Dutch pretends to be against, proving Javier had no real honor or values. Javier was scum in that game.
Mean while Jav : talking shit : Charles literally having a sawed off shotgun on the side of his leg