Roy weatherby hit 6000 fps when testing the 30-378 weatherby mag but knowing Roy weatherby he must've filled that big ol case to the brim and used a 30 inch barrel.
Still have a few of these in ‘06. Dad got them on clearance at a store that was closing down around 1990. Couldn’t hit a barn from the inside but wow did they cook!
Got to watch the velocities. I know when I was a young starving college student and only had one centerfire rifle, I would hunt coyotes with my .30-06 loaded with .308 Speer 125 grain TNT bullets. Got decent accuracy, but if you really wanted, you could push the bullet hard enough that it force would spin the bullet apart in midair. So, I imagine shooting a fragile .224 varmint bullet at 5,000 FPS would have a similar effect.
I have a .220 Swift that I used to load with 50gr. 'SX' varmint bullets that I know were close to 4000fps or maybe even more; (I didn't have a chrono so I'm not sure) but they would leave the barrel and I could literally see what looked like a con-trail behind the bullet!!! And they would come apart in mid flight so not really useful. I'd check the target and I could see where small bits of copper jacket and maybe tiny bits of lead would pepper the paper like a tiny shotgun!! They were so hot that the primer pocket would expand and the flattened out primer would just fall out.... I took to loading them down a bit and they became stable and accurate. They would enter a coyote explode like a tiny grenade inside and never exit which was perfect as we were selling the fur hides. The autopsy's were very telling, just one tiny entrance hole in the hide and the vitals would turn to a jelly like mush!!
the 45 or 46 grain .22 Hornet bullets when driven from a 5.56/.223 with the newer, tight twist barrels can be got to self disassemble in mid air as well- Let alone driving them at full speed out of a 22-250 or the Swift. I'm curious what some of the all Copper TSX/TTSX projectiles might do in a sabot out of those over bore 30 cartridges- I'd bet that pretty little plastic point on the TTSX melts well before 100 yards... Can we make those out of Boron carbide?😮 Or would that be a little too much like armor piercing.
Those Remington Accelerators were loaded in .30-06, .308, and .30-30. The .30-30 loads were about even with .22-250 ballistics. I still have a few of the .30-30's laying around.
I remember seeing those 'Accelerator' loads advertisdd when I was a kid. Liked reading &uns and Ammo as a kid as much as I could. .223 with 18" barrel 55 grain is running almost as fast with straight factory loads, and noone argues accuracy on it. Great idea, but don't see worth the effort, be a nice project, but compare them to .22-250, and .223/5.56
I enjoy learning new stuff about the tools we use as hunters and sportsman. Thanks again Ron for sharing new things, old things and just fun outdoor knowledge. Good shooting to you and yours. 🎥💯👍
I still have a few of those factory 30-06 accelerators that I bought back in the mid 80's. I didn't think the accuracy was that great but the muzzle blast is very impressive. The fireball will singe your whiskers. The collector value precludes any more testing.
@@Joeatsaco69 I've been very very pleasantly surprised with my new production Winchester model 70 featherweights! I've been basically shooting single whole groups at 100 yards almost every time I go to the range! someday I'd like to build something that's really wicked accurate but for now that's more than good enough for me!
I think the problem with sabot rounds out of a rifle is they are too fast for rifling, or at least the speed of rifling you get in most rifles. I wonder if they would get more accurate out of some crazy slow rifling, like 1 in 20, tanks use smooth bore for sabot rounds but I think they are fin stabilized.
The guy that got me into reloading does those fast movers. He’s been reloading 30 years. I’m on year 3. With shortages everywhere, actuality be 2 years.
Lol a 300 blackout with a 55g .224 cal accelerator at around 3k FPS. That sounds interesting. If only there was a cartridge that could do that already. 🤣
DOD has a mill shop that turns depleted uranium rounds down to 30 cal, puts them in a sabot in a 50 bmg casing, they scream at just over 7000fps, accurate enough to punch holes in mechanic equipment that are considered safe by our adversaries
The rifle putting rifling marks on a projectile, does not identify at 2 single one and only weapon. And then 1980s it was found when they tried to start fingerprinting Firearms by the rifling marks they quickly found out that several dozen Firearms before they made that specific firearm to several dozen after that specific firearm the rifling marks for microscopically identical. Which blew the lid off the idea that that rifle fired this round to the exclusion of all others. Pistols were the same way. The best that can be said in a court of law, and less there's something unusual about bore of a specific firearm or something attached to it that causes an unusual mark on the bullet is bet it is microscopically consistent with the firearm! That information was exactly why the Firearms companies were allowed to stop fingerprinting firearms. The idea was to have the rifling marks from a given firearm on file and available. And it went for about 2 or 3 years and it stopped because it was finding that it is not identifiable to a single firearm.
I have 15 shots for 30-06 from a box of accelerators I bought years ago. Do not fire them trough a muzzle brake of any kind. The plastic sabot expands immediately after exciting the barrel, releasing the bullet, and could brake things.
The problem with that kind of velocity is finding a bullet that won't vaporize within a few feet of the muzzle lead tips won't stay solid past 4 thousand fps you can see the vapor in the rite conditions
IIRC in my older Nosler reloading manuals in the section devoted to reloading for the 300/378 Weaterby Magnum who's parrent cartridge was the 460 Weatherby Magnum that was for quite some time the world's most powerful commercially produced non-wildcat rifle cartridge that could hold over 110 grains of powder ( vs a 30/06's 61ish grains) and push a 500 grain .458 bullet to a MV of 2500+ FPS A true giant of a dangerous game cartridge It contains a story of how the US Army in cooperation with Weatherby and sought to develop an ultra fast sniper rifle cartridge based on the 300/378 Weatherby that could and did obtain a MV of over 6,000 FPS. But for what ever the reason it never materialized into anything But still obtaining a MV of 6k FPS is an impressive accomplishment What is even more astonishing is the 120mm APFSDS depleted uranium dart fired by the Abrams MBT has a MV of over 6k feet per second as well.
Solid copper projectiles allow faster speeds than lead would previously allow. Add in the newly discovered fact that with enough twist, there will be additional rotational damage applied to the target. We should expect to see much longer projectiles with insane twist rates someday.
???? Longer bullets are for B.C. or long range. Like mile plus. Monolithic bullets are bigger than same weight lead bullets naturally because lead is heavier. Monolithic bullets are also slower because jacketed bullets are soft. Especially the high B.C. bullets. Twist rate is for stability on big projectiles.
Lead is very limiting for speeds. A guy was making a "12 gauge slug from hell" and he was finding that after a certain speed the lead slugs just flattening immediately as would lose so much penetration power. Now if he used a copper or brass solid that would probably be a different story.
I mainly stick w/ tactical AR builds. Saw LMT offered a 20" .204 Ruger Stainless barrel on clearance for $400 and grabbed it. I'm not a hunter but am fascinated w/ 4000 FPS! It has 2" of drop at 300 meters and even cooler, with FMJ it's armor piercing
Great reminder! Im sure that company will sell out fast! Although saboing with a 300BLK would be counter productive I am wondering if u have heard of or talked about the new Blackout round? 8.6 Creedmoor BLK!!!
I'm pretty new to all this gun stuff (even though I'm old as dirt) but why stop with .30 cal cartridges??? I have a 375 H&H Magnum or better yet even larger Magnums like the 416 or 460, design a sabot to fit those cases and see what speeds you get??? Just an idea 😉
Great video Ron! Handloading is as much art as it is science. Most of my handloading buddies are pretty smart, meticulous and a little bit crazy! Guys like that are the people who invent most of our new cartridges.
I read an article about high velocity. I don’t remember who wrote it or where I read it. However the author said it is impossible to exceed 5700 fps. They gave reasons of gas expansion and scientist stuff. Anyone know if that is true
It is possible. Don't want to talk about it now but the 220 was said to be capable of over 9000feet per second, but they took it down for commercial sales.
I bet It's a 224 caliber bullet in a 308 caliber plastic sabot. Someone on RUclips shot one out of a 300 RUM at 5300 fps. I think this concept should be developed further. We could have 375 or 416 caliber sabots to accept 264 and 284 caliber bullets. Get a 1:8 twist 375 ruger launching a 180 gr 7mm bullet with a bc of. .75 at over 4000 fps. Someone shoild try it.
If we are going to go that round we should copy what tanks did decades ago. Smooth bore, fin stabilized sabot, they are extremely accurate but you'll never get there with rifling.
I'd have to check my chronograph's manual, but I wonder what the upper velocity that can be registered would be on the sort of devices that ordinary people can afford.
The only fairly readily available chronographs that will reach the 5,000 fps mark that I am aware of are the Caldwell and the Oehler 35P. The Caldwell has handled velocities of 5,000 - 5,100+ fps and read without fail every time! The 1st 35 P that I owned reached 6,980 fps...25 yds. from the muzzle, or 7,100 fps at the muzzle with a 225gr. L/D 1 projectile...
Ron, At the time Remington was producing the Accellerator, they didn't offer the sabots for handloading. So an article appeared in Guns and Ammo where a fellow made his own and loaded them in the 300 Win mag to 5000 fps. Honestly it was a LONG time ago, so I don't remember who or when the article appeared. Likely it was near 40 years ago. Might be something you could dig up to compare notes to. If a person really wanted a cartridge to go over 5000 fps that doesn't use sabots to get the job done, check out the creation by M.L. McPherson . ( one of the editors of Cartridges of the World ) The round is called the 5x35 SMc and was standardized by CIP and offered by Savage at one time. I had the pleasure of shooting the little round and it indeed produced what it was touted, not to mention accurately, 5,315 fps! I believe an abbreviated article appeared about it in Recoil magazine a few years ago about the cartridge. It is a really unique cartridge with truly impressive speed. Might be an interesting rabbit trail for you to follow. Todd
@@shawntailor5485 No sir. The 5x35 SMc is standardized with CIP and was offered by Savage custom shop. It was developed by M.L. McPherson and B. Smalley. Base case was the BR Remington. There was an article in Recoil Magazine about it a couple years ago. I have actually fired that rifle at the range and it does indeed to 5,315 fps, with Hornady 24gn NTX for the 0.204 caliber.
The sabot .224 caliber 55 grain 308 and 30-06 factory rounds @3,770 fps and 4080 fps, respectively, marketed by Remington 30 years ago, never became popular because they were inaccurate - thus defeating their purpose. I remember using them in my 1/2 MOA HK 770, 308 Winchester. The rifle shot 1/2 MOA with regular factory ammo but would do no better than 1.5 MOA with the Remington 55 grain factory sabot ammo. Remington soon discontinued both.
Different subject- Ron, I hunt Antelope, deer, elk, & moose in Montana. I have a 243, 35 Whelen AI, & a 7MM Rem Mag. I am what you call a minimalist and I am wondering what your thoughts are on just hanging on to the 7MM Rem Mag and getting rid of the other 2?
Have you come across the latest wildcat round utilizing the 50BMG with a 30caliber sabot in it!!! I'll just wager those projectiles are definitely cutting some serious air!!! A nice 30caliber 200gr boat tail spitser hollow point would definitely maby make the chronograph run for cover wouldn't it??🥰🤠🥰 Especially with only a 30" barrel with a severe twist rate burning pistol powder!!! The guy I saw shooting it was using a fat benchrestors bull barrel with a gigantic mouser=(bolt action) action!!! I didn't get the chance to find out what the F.P.S. reading's were but staggering comes to mind!!!
I'm old enough to have actually used the Remington "Accelerators" in my Model 70 in .30-'06. Several hunting buddies tried them as well. Accuracy was dismal in all of our rifles, like three to four MOA at best. Worse than that was dealing with the plastic fouling left behind in our barrels. Just a bad experience all the way around. Perhaps the modern sabots, some 40 years on, are better. Certainly couldn't be any worse.
I'd like to see them tried in a custom barrel with super slow rifling or even smooth bore. Modern sabot rounds in tanks can't be stabilized with rifling, tanks are very accurate with smooth bore fin stabilized sabots.
I still have 15 shots in a box of those 30-06 accelerators, accuracy wasn't the best, I wonder if the friction starts to melt the sabot making it loose in the rifling towards the end, and ruining accuracy.
@@bobbygetsbanned6049 I remember the Accelerators when they were on the market....and looked into why they weren't accurate for many people. Came down IMHO to twist rates being on the slow side in 30 cal barrels compared to what works in 22's. Plus I suspected that the sabot was engaging the rifling but the projectile held within could have been slipping due to its' inertia and not spinning as fast as a calculation would indicate...hence slow spin and poor accuracy.
@@recoilrob324 Interesting thoughts. Standard twist in most .30-'06 barrels is 1:10, with .308's usually going 1:12. Back when these Accelerators were on the market, most .22 centerfires, like the .223, .22-250, and .220 Swift all ran 1:14 twists as standard. We were all happy to shoot 50 to 55 grain bullets in our .22 centerfires in those days, so that 1:14 worked well. It wasn't until the last few decades that heavier .22 bullets and the requisite faster twists became ubiquitous. So, our ten to twelve inch twist should have done the job with the lighter bullets used in the Accelerator (can't remember if they were 50 or 55 grain). In light of that, I think your "slippage" theory has a good deal of merit. Especially in light of the fact that the Army doesn't even try to utilize spin stabilization with sabots, relying instead upon drag stabilization. Now that would be interesting - a smooth bore .30 shooting little saboted darts...
yeah the twist rates were not good which is why they had such bad accuracy... also the plastic sabots were not consistent on how they applied sealing force in the barrel which lead to pressure consistency issues and many simply didnt grab the rifling. if they machined a light weight aluminum sabot with a small tungsten bullet maybe... but aluminum has a tendency to stick itself to steel.
I have a 30-06 wanted to go faster got a 25-06 30-06 necked down to 25 caliber. I like the sleeve idea but like throwing a football the harder or faster you throw it the more spin you put on it. So the barrel twist is off, if you go faster yes fast accurate no.
The speed of sound is 767 mph. So 8 Times the speed of sound is 6,136 miles an hour. For a long time the fastest hand held rifle chambered in 220 Swift shoots 2,795 mph x2 = 5,590 mph. The 30-378 Weatherby shoots 6,000 fps = 4,090 mph x 8,180 mph. It said that the this is more than twice as fast as the fastest rifle round. It’s actually slower by over 2,000 mph. To put this into perspective the average 9mm shot out of a handheld pistol, is moving around 1100 miles an hour.
A friend of mine some time back told me about the 6mm-06. It is capable of substantially over 4000 fps with lightweight bullets and 24" barrel. I don't know where I saw it but somewhere I read that the theoretical maximum velocity with smokeless propellants is around 5500 fps. I wonder if it would be higher today.
I have never heard of a conventional jacketed bullet bonded or not, sabot or not, holding together beyond about 4300-4500fps, though I have heard of plenty of rounds that will in fact shoot beond these limits with monos, the fastest single number I have got from a man here in Melbourne Australia, He had built for him a .17-250 remington. If I remember correctly, though its been a few years, he could hold the 27grn jacketed bullets together to around 4300fps, the 32grn jacketed he could hold together to around 4500fps. Beyond that the projectiles were turning to powder at the mussle or shortly there after. when he moved to solid copper projectiles the 5000fps barrier fell rapidly. He was even able to push solid copper projectiles to dust at 5700fps. His working load was a 29 grain solid copper projectile moving at around 5300fps, and the detail I have chosen to omit up until now for entertainment value is, his good friend whom built the rifle, for humour and science, had this rifle builts with a 50+inch barrel, If i revert to memory again I want to say a 57inch barrel though it may have been 52. In the photographs the man had shown me of he and his son hunting feral water buffalo in the 80's with it, it was quite the musket in appearance. And when I say buffalo, I mean that little pea-shooter, was downing buffalo, cleanly and clearly, the only rifle he ever said that he owned that stopped an Australian Water Buffalo harder than that .17-250 was his .700 JDJ. Other 4000-5000fps slayers I know of and thusly include the Improved variations, are 17cal/20cal-222 Remington, 222Remington Magnum, 223 Remington. 17/20/22-250Reminton, 243Winchester, 6mmRemington. For all the experimentation far and away solid alloy construction was always the victor in speed and accuracy, the jacketed construction never held up. Love this video Ron, truly hit one of my favorite subjects right one the head, SPEED! Post thought, I am currently in the process of building myself a .22-243Win for FClassO target shooting here in Northern queensland. Just the medicine for shooting in the humid, miraged conditions up here lol.
A friend of mine got into an argument in the bar as to which lever action would shoot farther. The rifles, a scoped BLR in 358 Win. vs an open sighted Marlin 336 in .30-30 Win. The target, a gallon plastic jug at 400 yds. The bet, first man to hit the jug won the other mans rifle! My buddy hit the jug first shot with his Marlin .30-30 shooting Remington accelerators, and took home a very nice BLR.
Saboted bullets-been used in artillery loads since WW2-Germans.Today the discarding sabot is used in M1 Abrams tank gun loads.To top off the gun is a smoothbore!The projectiles have angled tail fins.Run up to 5000FPS plus and this is for a 9-12Pound projectile!!The fastest load I remember-a Guns&Ammo showed a micro meteor simulator device that could launch #6 size plastic pellets to 50,000FPS-of course had to be fired in a vacuum.The pellet could blow fist size holes in steel!!!!The "gun" used very high pressure gas compressed by an explosive charge.
I’ve used these. And I’m going to go ahead and point out that on their website it clearly states “BIG SAFETY REQUIREMENT - Never fire sabots in barrels that have muzzle brakes. Premature flowering in the brake could act as a barrel obstruction.” since on the subject that somebody doesn’t seem to want to admit to… wether it was in fact the cause or not.
I was thinking, if a .12 gauge had a 16 gauge sabot slug or a .20 gauge, it would seem to be an effective combination if accuracy were not affected. .16 gauge or .20 gauge is a lot of mass, but backed by a 12 gauge powder load???? It might be sweet. Faster not damaging as much meat, then longer, flatter trajectory??? Just think a .45-70, a .410 loaded in a 12 gauge would handle anything around as a slug. But I would question accuracy. So, 16 gauge or probably preferably 20 gauge, where more penetration and transfer of power. Anyone know?
26 Nosler pushing 127 barnes easily over 3400. 100 g cutting edge pills would perhaps touch 4000 with H50? (I keep hearing it's a barrel burner but 1500 plus and still going) garbage out past 800 though. 200 g E-LDX pushing 3020 = speed bag at 1000 But get .338, 300 grains over 3100 fps and now we are starting to get somewhere... you need a wedge to get the ability out of it.
I’ve got the accumark MarkV in the 30-378 and the 300 Remington ultra mag it is a browning abolt both have. The stainless steel chrome Molly lined barrel my cousin is in Weston Col. elk hunting with my my 300 run I think I’ll try that with my big Weatherby I also have 338/378 my 30/378 likes the h 50 BMG powered it is like a 454 it likes fuel where can I get the info on what kind of pill l can start with and me and my friend who has a 50 bmg was shooting some ar 5000 plants the 50BMG with a 660 grain bullet would just dent where the 30/378 with a 178gr eldx would shoot threw it all 3 s rounds went threw it
I shot the Remington Accelerators out of my Ruger M-77 in 30-06 back when they were still being made. I got around 1.5 inch groups at 100 yards, which was about as good as that gun shot anything. I never managed to get a coyote with them, but they sure could turn rabbits inside out!
I may have to buy some of thoise sabots.. not for super high velocity, but instead I'm thnking I can make great plinking/ small game/ varmit rounds for my 308 (Rem 700). Maybe even some in higher weights (70+gn?) for deer ??? I already have everything but the sabots :)
Those are interesting. But pushing much over 5,000 fps I wonder, some of those bullets might come apart. I know Hornady 50 gr SPSX is only rated to 3500 fps, I wonder what the limits are on some of the other stuff like 50 gr V-MAX
I suggest that stabilizing the bullet might be a problem. You can't just stabilize a particular bullet in any twist rifle. I have a 24" Varminter .223 with a 1:9 twist that absolutely loves a Hornady 60 grain Vmax bullet at 3100 fps and has grouped as small as 5 shots into .29 inches at 100 yds and stays well below MOA at 300 with not much wind. On the other hand, it is difficult to get satisfactory results with a 50 grain or over 69 grain bullet with that gun. It seems I've read that the Ruger .204 can spit them out over 4000 with factory loads but haven't seen accuracy data. Barrel life is probably pretty iffy with those really fast bullets.
Sadly, nothing shooting sabot rounds can be accurate enough for me to be interested, velocity regardless. I've been reloading for years and I've experimented with sabot stuff like this and I was never able to get anything with acceptable accuracy. I don't believe I ever even got below 1.5 MOA, and the plastic nature of the sabots always resulted in random wild fliers.. What good is shooting at something with a bullet going 5200fps if it whizzes right by the target? I love your channel, but I kind of had to laugh when you mentioned how cool it would be to shoot a 55gr sabot bullet through a 300 blackout, and how you could get really interesting performance from that. 300blk is a necked-up 5.56. You'd be launching a 5.56 bullet at the same velocity a standard AR produces, but with dramatically reduced accuracy......I just don't get it... It's probably something that could be solved....if somebody put enough R&D into the polymers involved and could produce them to exacting tolerances.....sure. I could see that working. But plastics are more susceptible to temperature changes than any metal. Even with the best polymer blend, I don't see how you could use a load like this and not have wild inconsistencies based on temperature. Great for short range weapons....you do get more performance. But after about 200m....the loss of accuracy is bad enough that sticking with a traditional option is probably a vastly superior option. Given that for nearly anything other than shotguns, bullet drop out to 200m is easily compensated for....I really just don't see the point.....
Since you like sabot rounds and if you are good at math. How about verifying the muzzel velocity of a 750 grain BMG round in a sabot sleeve out of a 20xq138B mm round out of a M-39 Lahti
ISTR there was an effort to get +3500fps back 80s. Might have seen article in Am.Rifleman or Guns&Ammo. One stuck in my mind was a sabotted bullet. Accuracy was an issue like Ron mentioned. Never tried them. Interesting vid.
Have anyone tries to load 30-06 or 300 winmag with Sako .30 Hollowpoint 102 grs A146 bullets. I think that this light 6.6 g 7.62 bullet would be accurate, fast and easy to shoot tight groups also hit far.
Would love to have some of these sabo's. But, highly illegal here in Aussie. For the reason you gave about the FBI. No lands marks engraved on projys. Also banned are the frangible bullets. Nothing left intact to check for engravings. Pity.They would be perfect in 223 for shooting foxes to harvest skins. Small hole in, no exit.
Wasn't the Accelerator a .223? I saw something say power is velocity squared times mass. Which a round bullet would transfer a lot of mass quickly, hydroshock. Impact with momentum. But, looking at power, I'd need to calculate the power of the .223 at 4K per second. Yet, it should give lots of penetration, it'd seem it would create a vacuum as well. Which someone has probably shot deer with them. If so, what result did you have? Just curious as things do not always go how one would imagine. Maybe they are very effective if bullet is placed right, or as one fellow shooting a lighter .30-06 load, the .270 with solid point. The bullet went straight through and the deer kept running. Where the .270 is faster, reason used was for pipelines that are straight and go a long ways with flat trajectory.
Wasn't it one of the big amunition manufacturers way back in the early 70s came out with a sabot round refered to as the expiditors???🤔🤨 I might be a little off in the name but they were plastic sabot rounds as well!!!
This sounds great and all, but if you change the diameter of the bullet/projectile it’s no longer a 30-06 or 30-30 etc. so therefore you are NOT shooting a 30-06 at 4000 ft. all you’re doing is using a 30-06 case to shoot a 20 caliber bullet/projectile! 🤦♂️ everybody is more than welcome to do whatever they please, I just don’t see The common sense or rational thinking on this, to me if someone’s wanting to shoot a smaller caliber bullet really fast, there are a slew of them available and that have perfected it.
A 300 blackout with a 55 grain sabot would just be a .223 with extra steps though right? If i remember right the 300 blackout is just a .223 necked up to fit a .308 round
I'm wondering what Hornady ELD bullets would do if they make them in.224 cal. I would think that is is where the in accuracy is coming from the bullet has to be melting down going that fast
Bullets don't hold up unless solid copper and even those just explode. I know this from messing with the 22-243 midelstead, get over 3500 and bullets turn into mini frag grenades.
Has anyone thought of using a copper gas-check ( cast bullet enthusiasts will know what I'm talking about) on the bottom of the sabot ?? Or even a half copper-cup sabot to prevent plastic fouling ??? Yes, they're extra steps, but it would make the sabot option more shootable (and cleanable ) !!!!
Those Remington Accelerators were good for groundhogs when i was a kid my dad used them in his bolt action but his friend tryed them in his rem 7400 and cloged the gas ports
Friend of mine used to shoot coyotes with his 06 with 24 inch barrel. Accelerator ammo . One head shot I remember at 60 yards turned everything inside to melted Jello. Did NOT exit . Instant death. No pelt damage. What about 70 grain 6mm out of a 7mm rem mag?
Bought a box of 30-06 acceelerators in the late 80s, early 90s. Only shot a couple and was told that the nylon sabot would damage the rifling if over used. So put them away. Still have and did not realize that they are now collectors items. If remember correctly were advertised at about 4200 fps. Ones I shot crono'd at 3980 so fairly close.
I have been shooting a 30/30 Ruger No.1 and using Sierra 53 grain BTHP and getting 3200 to 3300 FPS with a Sabot load. The load duplicates the 319 Donaldson Wasp load using the same bullet. Accuracy is not the greatest. 1-1/2 at 100 yards but for a single shot hunting rifle it is acceptable. Part of the reason that accuracy is not as good with a sabot is that the sabot separates from the bullet as soon as the bullet / Sabot leaves the barrel and the bullet becomes unstable. It is speculated that since the bullet does not engage the rifling whereas the sabot does this is the reason the accuracy deteriorates. Nothing conclusive but certainly makes sense.
Not knocking this by no means cause im a huge fan of options. But one thing you mentioned is loading a sabot 55 gr 22 caliber bullet in a 300 blackout case. I dont understand that one cause unless im wrong, the 300 blackout is just a 223 loaded with a heavier larger 30 caliber bullet. So if you did this with the 300 blackout wouldnt you just be reverting it back to what that cartridge was trying to get away from with its parent cartridge. And would it not then essentially be its parent cartridge? All the others i get. But i cant get over converting a 223 to a 300 blackout just to convert it back to a 223.
I got 1 right.used to pack 1 clip of 55's 1 with 165 Sierra boat tails, and loaded with 220 fat nose in the Rem 742 carbine. My 1st Alaskan Rifle. 1978. Next was the Sako 300 with mag, 81. Still using both. Trapper scotty, Alaskan
still have a box of rem 308, 55gr soft point num. on the box R308W5. no velocity stated. these were about 6 moa if I remember right. it's why I still have a factory box of them. shot up a bunch of them and they really weren't worth a shit. might of been the gun, old rem. that wasn't very accurate anyway. I have a sub moa 308 nowadays might be worth trying again but i'd bet money it wouldn't be to far from that 6 moa. That dates how long I've been hand loading cause I started shortly before I got theses.
rifles and ammo from the 70s that could hold a 2 MOA group was accurate for its day, so if the accelerators in the 70s were shooting 2 MOA that's not terrible. I mean, now if your factory rifle shoots 2 moa with factory ammo its junk in my mind; I know it still kills deer or hogs or whatever. not my point.
This is really interesting! I did not know EABCO even existed. Yes, it would be fun to experiment. I remember the 30-06 Remington Accelerator. Very light recoil but poor accuracy. However, I never tried shooting one from a clean bore!
That was the goal for the .22 Eargesplitten Loudenboomer !!!! Boy that was a looong time ago !!!!
My ears still ring!
I remember that, quiet the hurmoor
It boomen louden and splitten earge
Roy weatherby hit 6000 fps when testing the 30-378 weatherby mag but knowing Roy weatherby he must've filled that big ol case to the brim and used a 30 inch barrel.
new barrel per box ?
No, no he didnt
Also I think it was a 100gr bullet he used
Still have a few of these in ‘06. Dad got them on clearance at a store that was closing down around 1990. Couldn’t hit a barn from the inside but wow did they cook!
Both are 30 cal
"Couldn't hit a barn from the insid" 😂
Got to watch the velocities. I know when I was a young starving college student and only had one centerfire rifle, I would hunt coyotes with my .30-06 loaded with .308 Speer 125 grain TNT bullets. Got decent accuracy, but if you really wanted, you could push the bullet hard enough that it force would spin the bullet apart in midair. So, I imagine shooting a fragile .224 varmint bullet at 5,000 FPS would have a similar effect.
I have a .220 Swift that I used to load with 50gr. 'SX' varmint bullets that I know were close to 4000fps or maybe even more; (I didn't have a chrono so I'm not sure) but they would leave the barrel and I could literally see what looked like a con-trail behind the bullet!!! And they would come apart in mid flight so not really useful.
I'd check the target and I could see where small bits of copper jacket and maybe tiny bits of lead would pepper the paper like a tiny shotgun!!
They were so hot that the primer pocket would expand and the flattened out primer would just fall out.... I took to loading them down a bit and they became stable and accurate. They would enter a coyote explode like a tiny grenade inside and never exit which was perfect as we were selling the fur hides. The autopsy's were very telling, just one tiny entrance hole in the hide and the vitals would turn to a jelly like mush!!
the 45 or 46 grain .22 Hornet bullets when driven from a 5.56/.223 with the newer, tight twist barrels can be got to self disassemble in mid air as well- Let alone driving them at full speed out of a 22-250 or the Swift.
I'm curious what some of the all Copper TSX/TTSX projectiles might do in a sabot out of those over bore 30 cartridges- I'd bet that pretty little plastic point on the TTSX melts well before 100 yards... Can we make those out of Boron carbide?😮 Or would that be a little too much like armor piercing.
I second the ttsx sabot. Launch it from a 30-378 to see how flat it will ashtray.
Those Remington Accelerators were loaded in .30-06, .308, and .30-30. The .30-30 loads were about even with .22-250 ballistics. I still have a few of the .30-30's laying around.
I would love to have them, provided you can find them and are willing to turn loose of them.
@@davidmeeks2405 They are so rare that i put them in my "ammunition collection"
Yep, I remember those.
I remember seeing those 'Accelerator' loads advertisdd when I was a kid. Liked reading &uns and Ammo as a kid as much as I could.
.223 with 18" barrel 55 grain is running almost as fast with straight factory loads, and noone argues accuracy on it. Great idea, but don't see worth the effort, be a nice project, but compare them to .22-250, and .223/5.56
@@louislarose6613I completely understand, but I had to ask.
220 swift, in the mid 4’s no plastic and 1/2 Moa, keep the 30’s in the slow lane.😉
5,280 fps would be a mile a second. That's pretty fast. Thanks for the great vids.
I'd like to see ballistics at different distances and armor piercing videos
Without any wind resistance
You could do it on Mount Everest. Air is pretty thin up there.
Sounds damn near impossible
Muzzle velocity anyways, by the time it got to a mile it would be slowed down quite a bit.
I enjoy learning new stuff about the tools we use as hunters and sportsman. Thanks again Ron for sharing new things, old things and just fun outdoor knowledge. Good shooting to you and yours. 🎥💯👍
Me too
This is actually and old thing that is creeping up out of the basement. It’s pretty cool stuff. Very purpose driven.
Yep. Love my ole favorite 30-06. It's hard to beat with all the ammo options in commercial loads and hand loads.
I still have a few of those factory 30-06 accelerators that I bought back in the mid 80's. I didn't think the accuracy was that great but the muzzle blast is very impressive. The fireball will singe your whiskers.
The collector value precludes any more testing.
I think unless you're shooting a really small target or at extended ranges or both, 2 MOA is fine for most of my hunting, honestly.
So far I am pulling .4” to the outsides of the holes at 25 yards. Not match grade but still better than some factory stuff.
@@Joeatsaco69 I've been very very pleasantly surprised with my new production Winchester model 70 featherweights! I've been basically shooting single whole groups at 100 yards almost every time I go to the range! someday I'd like to build something that's really wicked accurate but for now that's more than good enough for me!
At 100, shooting two minutes is totally fine. Down here, chasing foxes you'd want 1, often get shots out to 300, with a 3-4" humane kill area.
I think the problem with sabot rounds out of a rifle is they are too fast for rifling, or at least the speed of rifling you get in most rifles. I wonder if they would get more accurate out of some crazy slow rifling, like 1 in 20, tanks use smooth bore for sabot rounds but I think they are fin stabilized.
Handloaded .220 swift? Sabot from an M1 Abrams tank? Those are my guesses.
30/378 Wby, 130 barns torture test on Tuesday tube!
Faster Than A Speeding Bullet …! Well , maybe not THIS Bullet ….
The guy that got me into reloading does those fast movers. He’s been reloading 30 years. I’m on year 3. With shortages everywhere, actuality be 2 years.
Lol a 300 blackout with a 55g .224 cal accelerator at around 3k FPS. That sounds interesting. If only there was a cartridge that could do that already. 🤣
DOD has a mill shop that turns depleted uranium rounds down to 30 cal, puts them in a sabot in a 50 bmg casing, they scream at just over 7000fps, accurate enough to punch holes in mechanic equipment that are considered safe by our adversaries
I loaded some 22/243 Middlestead rounds at 5280 fps for a gunsmith friend.
The rifle putting rifling marks on a projectile, does not identify at 2 single one and only weapon. And then 1980s it was found when they tried to start fingerprinting Firearms by the rifling marks they quickly found out that several dozen Firearms before they made that specific firearm to several dozen after that specific firearm the rifling marks for microscopically identical. Which blew the lid off the idea that that rifle fired this round to the exclusion of all others. Pistols were the same way. The best that can be said in a court of law, and less there's something unusual about bore of a specific firearm or something attached to it that causes an unusual mark on the bullet is bet it is microscopically consistent with the firearm! That information was exactly why the Firearms companies were allowed to stop fingerprinting firearms. The idea was to have the rifling marks from a given firearm on file and available. And it went for about 2 or 3 years and it stopped because it was finding that it is not identifiable to a single firearm.
If I remember correctly they made a 300 win mag accelerator. It was the fastest I believe.
I have 15 shots for 30-06 from a box of accelerators I bought years ago.
Do not fire them trough a muzzle brake of any kind.
The plastic sabot expands immediately after exciting the barrel, releasing the bullet, and could brake things.
yes you can get about 5,000 fps... but then you run into another problem... the bullets begin to disintegrate mid air.
Eargesplitten Loudenboomer!
Pronounce sa-Bo not Sa-bo with accent on second syllable like you are pronouncing it wrong.
I got 4500 fps in a 300 WBY with IMR 3031 and could go higher. Some lead core bullets will burn up at speeds over 5000 fps.
The problem with that kind of velocity is finding a bullet that won't vaporize within a few feet of the muzzle lead tips won't stay solid past 4 thousand fps you can see the vapor in the rite conditions
My best chrony reading was with a 55 grain combined technology ballistic silver tip behind h380 in a .243 was 3993. I haven't tried to push it harder.
My dad had a box of 30-30 accelerators. I shot half the box at coyotes and never did hit one.
IIRC in my older Nosler reloading manuals in the section devoted to reloading for the 300/378 Weaterby Magnum who's parrent cartridge was the 460 Weatherby Magnum that was for quite some time the world's most powerful commercially produced non-wildcat rifle cartridge that could hold over 110 grains of powder ( vs a 30/06's 61ish grains) and push a 500 grain .458 bullet to a MV of 2500+ FPS
A true giant of a dangerous game cartridge
It contains a story of how the US Army in cooperation with Weatherby and sought to develop an ultra fast sniper rifle cartridge based on the 300/378 Weatherby that could and did obtain a MV of over 6,000 FPS.
But for what ever the reason it never materialized into anything
But still obtaining a MV of 6k FPS is an impressive accomplishment
What is even more astonishing is the 120mm APFSDS depleted uranium dart fired by the Abrams MBT has a MV of over 6k feet per second as well.
Awesome I had heard that,but , while I was in it was classified but 6003 fps .
I remember my uncle loading his 22/250 with 17cal in a sabot.
Don't know how fast or accurate it was.
How does this work exactly? Would you need a custom barrel to accommodate the .30 cal cartridge in the chamber yet have a small .22 bore?
Oh wait, the sabot makes up the difference in the diameter, I'm an idiot.
Solid copper projectiles allow faster speeds than lead would previously allow. Add in the newly discovered fact that with enough twist, there will be additional rotational damage applied to the target. We should expect to see much longer projectiles with insane twist rates someday.
1:5 with a saboted solid copper .22 going 6,000fps out of a 6.8 Sig Fury shell would be funnier than all living h-e-double hockey sticks!
Insane twist rates also have the distinct characteristic of accelerated barrel wear.
@@bobbygetsbanned6049 that will be with any Projectile in these calibers traveling over 4,000fps. Even upper 3,000s will wear out barrels fast
???? Longer bullets are for B.C. or long range. Like mile plus. Monolithic bullets are bigger than same weight lead bullets naturally because lead is heavier. Monolithic bullets are also slower because jacketed bullets are soft. Especially the high B.C. bullets. Twist rate is for stability on big projectiles.
Lead is very limiting for speeds. A guy was making a "12 gauge slug from hell" and he was finding that after a certain speed the lead slugs just flattening immediately as would lose so much penetration power. Now if he used a copper or brass solid that would probably be a different story.
I mainly stick w/ tactical AR builds. Saw LMT offered a 20" .204 Ruger Stainless barrel on clearance for $400 and grabbed it.
I'm not a hunter but am fascinated w/ 4000 FPS! It has 2" of drop at 300 meters and even cooler, with FMJ it's armor piercing
Great reminder! Im sure that company will sell out fast! Although saboing with a 300BLK would be counter productive I am wondering if u have heard of or talked about the new Blackout round? 8.6 Creedmoor BLK!!!
"The Third Bullet" by Stephen Hunter has an interesting take on loading unmatched bullets/cases.
I'm pretty new to all this gun stuff (even though I'm old as dirt) but why stop with .30 cal cartridges??? I have a 375 H&H Magnum or better yet even larger Magnums like the 416 or 460, design a sabot to fit those cases and see what speeds you get???
Just an idea 😉
Back in the day I used the 30-06 Accelerators, loved shooting them, loved the 22-250 also thanks Ron for taking back down memory lane
Great video Ron! Handloading is as much art as it is science. Most of my handloading buddies are pretty smart, meticulous and a little bit crazy! Guys like that are the people who invent most of our new cartridges.
I read an article about high velocity. I don’t remember who wrote it or where I read it. However the author said it is impossible to exceed 5700 fps. They gave reasons of gas expansion and scientist stuff. Anyone know if that is true
It is possible. Don't want to talk about it now but the 220 was said to be capable of over 9000feet per second, but they took it down for commercial sales.
I bet It's a 224 caliber bullet in a 308 caliber plastic sabot. Someone on RUclips shot one out of a 300 RUM at 5300 fps.
I think this concept should be developed further. We could have 375 or 416 caliber sabots to accept 264 and 284 caliber bullets.
Get a 1:8 twist 375 ruger launching a 180 gr 7mm bullet with a bc of. .75 at over 4000 fps. Someone shoild try it.
If we are going to go that round we should copy what tanks did decades ago. Smooth bore, fin stabilized sabot, they are extremely accurate but you'll never get there with rifling.
@@bobbygetsbanned6049 yep, could be interesting. Problem is you'd have to make your own projectiles.
@@zachary3777 Yeah that's the hard and expensive part.
you are very knowledgeable person in fire arms
I wish you were my teacher in firearms department
I'd have to check my chronograph's manual, but I wonder what the upper velocity that can be registered would be on the sort of devices that ordinary people can afford.
The only fairly readily available chronographs that will reach the 5,000 fps mark that I am aware of are the Caldwell and the Oehler 35P. The Caldwell has handled velocities of 5,000 - 5,100+ fps and read without fail every time! The 1st 35 P that I owned reached 6,980 fps...25 yds. from the muzzle, or 7,100 fps at the muzzle with a 225gr. L/D 1 projectile...
Ron, At the time Remington was producing the Accellerator, they didn't offer the sabots for handloading. So an article appeared in Guns and Ammo where a fellow made his own and loaded them in the 300 Win mag to 5000 fps. Honestly it was a LONG time ago, so I don't remember who or when the article appeared. Likely it was near 40 years ago. Might be something you could dig up to compare notes to.
If a person really wanted a cartridge to go over 5000 fps that doesn't use sabots to get the job done, check out the creation by M.L. McPherson . ( one of the editors of Cartridges of the World ) The round is called the 5x35 SMc and was standardized by CIP and offered by Savage at one time. I had the pleasure of shooting the little round and it indeed produced what it was touted, not to mention accurately, 5,315 fps! I believe an abbreviated article appeared about it in Recoil magazine a few years ago about the cartridge. It is a really unique cartridge with truly impressive speed. Might be an interesting rabbit trail for you to follow.
Todd
So was the 5×35 the 22 Bee?
@@shawntailor5485 No sir. The 5x35 SMc is standardized with CIP and was offered by Savage custom shop. It was developed by M.L. McPherson and B. Smalley. Base case was the BR Remington. There was an article in Recoil Magazine about it a couple years ago. I have actually fired that rifle at the range and it does indeed to 5,315 fps, with Hornady 24gn NTX for the 0.204 caliber.
The sabot .224 caliber 55 grain 308 and 30-06 factory rounds @3,770 fps and 4080 fps, respectively, marketed by Remington 30 years ago, never became popular because they were inaccurate - thus defeating their purpose. I remember using them in my 1/2 MOA HK 770, 308 Winchester. The rifle shot 1/2 MOA with regular factory ammo but would do no better than 1.5 MOA with the Remington 55 grain factory sabot ammo. Remington soon discontinued both.
Hmm, a 300 blackout loaded with a 55 grain 22 caliber bullet should give you the performance of a............223 😆
300blk with a 55gr .223 sabot.......
That just sounds like .223 Rem with extra steps
Different subject- Ron, I hunt Antelope, deer, elk, & moose in Montana. I have a 243, 35 Whelen AI, & a 7MM Rem Mag. I am what you call a minimalist and I am wondering what your thoughts are on just hanging on to the 7MM Rem Mag and getting rid of the other 2?
Keep all of them. Guns are always valuable. I never sell guns.
Have you come across the latest wildcat round utilizing the 50BMG with a 30caliber sabot in it!!! I'll just wager those projectiles are definitely cutting some serious air!!! A nice 30caliber 200gr boat tail spitser hollow point would definitely maby make the chronograph run for cover wouldn't it??🥰🤠🥰 Especially with only a 30" barrel with a severe twist rate burning pistol powder!!! The guy I saw shooting it was using a fat benchrestors bull barrel with a gigantic mouser=(bolt action) action!!! I didn't get the chance to find out what the F.P.S. reading's were but staggering comes to mind!!!
I'm old enough to have actually used the Remington "Accelerators" in my Model 70 in .30-'06. Several hunting buddies tried them as well. Accuracy was dismal in all of our rifles, like three to four MOA at best. Worse than that was dealing with the plastic fouling left behind in our barrels. Just a bad experience all the way around. Perhaps the modern sabots, some 40 years on, are better. Certainly couldn't be any worse.
I'd like to see them tried in a custom barrel with super slow rifling or even smooth bore. Modern sabot rounds in tanks can't be stabilized with rifling, tanks are very accurate with smooth bore fin stabilized sabots.
I still have 15 shots in a box of those 30-06 accelerators, accuracy wasn't the best, I wonder if the friction starts to melt the sabot making it loose in the rifling towards the end, and ruining accuracy.
@@bobbygetsbanned6049 I remember the Accelerators when they were on the market....and looked into why they weren't accurate for many people. Came down IMHO to twist rates being on the slow side in 30 cal barrels compared to what works in 22's. Plus I suspected that the sabot was engaging the rifling but the projectile held within could have been slipping due to its' inertia and not spinning as fast as a calculation would indicate...hence slow spin and poor accuracy.
@@recoilrob324 Interesting thoughts. Standard twist in most .30-'06 barrels is 1:10, with .308's usually going 1:12. Back when these Accelerators were on the market, most .22 centerfires, like the .223, .22-250, and .220 Swift all ran 1:14 twists as standard. We were all happy to shoot 50 to 55 grain bullets in our .22 centerfires in those days, so that 1:14 worked well. It wasn't until the last few decades that heavier .22 bullets and the requisite faster twists became ubiquitous. So, our ten to twelve inch twist should have done the job with the lighter bullets used in the Accelerator (can't remember if they were 50 or 55 grain). In light of that, I think your "slippage" theory has a good deal of merit. Especially in light of the fact that the Army doesn't even try to utilize spin stabilization with sabots, relying instead upon drag stabilization. Now that would be interesting - a smooth bore .30 shooting little saboted darts...
yeah the twist rates were not good which is why they had such bad accuracy... also the plastic sabots were not consistent on how they applied sealing force in the barrel which lead to pressure consistency issues and many simply didnt grab the rifling. if they machined a light weight aluminum sabot with a small tungsten bullet maybe... but aluminum has a tendency to stick itself to steel.
I have a 30-06 wanted to go faster got a 25-06 30-06 necked down to 25 caliber. I like the sleeve idea but like throwing a football the harder or faster you throw it the more spin you put on it. So the barrel twist is off, if you go faster yes fast accurate no.
P.O. Ackley attempted 5k FPS with the Eargesplitten Loudenboomer in the 1960s.
The speed of sound is 767 mph. So 8 Times the speed of sound is 6,136 miles an hour. For a long time the fastest hand held rifle chambered in 220 Swift shoots 2,795 mph x2 = 5,590 mph. The 30-378 Weatherby shoots 6,000 fps = 4,090 mph x 8,180 mph. It said that the this is more than twice as fast as the fastest rifle round. It’s actually slower by over 2,000 mph. To put this into perspective the average 9mm shot out of a handheld pistol, is moving around 1100 miles an hour.
A friend of mine some time back told me about the 6mm-06. It is capable of substantially over 4000 fps with lightweight bullets and 24" barrel.
I don't know where I saw it but somewhere I read that the theoretical maximum velocity with smokeless propellants is around 5500 fps. I wonder if it would be higher today.
I got my 17 Remington to go 5049 FPS with a 15.5 grain Hornady ntx and 27.3 grains of Benchmark.......smoking💥
I have never heard of a conventional jacketed bullet bonded or not, sabot or not, holding together beyond about 4300-4500fps, though I have heard of plenty of rounds that will in fact shoot beond these limits with monos, the fastest single number I have got from a man here in Melbourne Australia, He had built for him a .17-250 remington. If I remember correctly, though its been a few years, he could hold the 27grn jacketed bullets together to around 4300fps, the 32grn jacketed he could hold together to around 4500fps. Beyond that the projectiles were turning to powder at the mussle or shortly there after. when he moved to solid copper projectiles the 5000fps barrier fell rapidly. He was even able to push solid copper projectiles to dust at 5700fps. His working load was a 29 grain solid copper projectile moving at around 5300fps, and the detail I have chosen to omit up until now for entertainment value is, his good friend whom built the rifle, for humour and science, had this rifle builts with a 50+inch barrel, If i revert to memory again I want to say a 57inch barrel though it may have been 52. In the photographs the man had shown me of he and his son hunting feral water buffalo in the 80's with it, it was quite the musket in appearance. And when I say buffalo, I mean that little pea-shooter, was downing buffalo, cleanly and clearly, the only rifle he ever said that he owned that stopped an Australian Water Buffalo harder than that .17-250 was his .700 JDJ. Other 4000-5000fps slayers I know of and thusly include the Improved variations, are 17cal/20cal-222 Remington, 222Remington Magnum, 223 Remington. 17/20/22-250Reminton, 243Winchester, 6mmRemington. For all the experimentation far and away solid alloy construction was always the victor in speed and accuracy, the jacketed construction never held up. Love this video Ron, truly hit one of my favorite subjects right one the head, SPEED! Post thought, I am currently in the process of building myself a .22-243Win for FClassO target shooting here in Northern queensland. Just the medicine for shooting in the humid, miraged conditions up here lol.
A friend of mine got into an argument in the bar as to which lever action would shoot farther. The rifles, a scoped BLR in 358 Win. vs an open sighted Marlin 336 in .30-30 Win. The target, a gallon plastic jug at 400 yds. The bet, first man to hit the jug won the other mans rifle! My buddy hit the jug first shot with his Marlin .30-30 shooting Remington accelerators, and took home a very nice BLR.
Saboted bullets-been used in artillery loads since WW2-Germans.Today the discarding sabot is used in M1 Abrams tank gun loads.To top off the gun is a smoothbore!The projectiles have angled tail fins.Run up to 5000FPS plus and this is for a 9-12Pound projectile!!The fastest load I remember-a Guns&Ammo showed a micro meteor simulator device that could launch #6 size plastic pellets to 50,000FPS-of course had to be fired in a vacuum.The pellet could blow fist size holes in steel!!!!The "gun" used very high pressure gas compressed by an explosive charge.
I’ve used these. And I’m going to go ahead and point out that on their website it clearly states “BIG SAFETY REQUIREMENT - Never fire sabots in barrels that have muzzle brakes. Premature flowering in the brake could act as a barrel obstruction.” since on the subject that somebody doesn’t seem to want to admit to… wether it was in fact the cause or not.
I was thinking, if a .12 gauge had a 16 gauge sabot slug or a .20 gauge, it would seem to be an effective combination if accuracy were not affected.
.16 gauge or .20 gauge is a lot of mass, but backed by a 12 gauge powder load???? It might be sweet. Faster not damaging as much meat, then longer, flatter trajectory??? Just think a .45-70, a .410 loaded in a 12 gauge would handle anything around as a slug. But I would question accuracy. So, 16 gauge or probably preferably 20 gauge, where more penetration and transfer of power.
Anyone know?
26 Nosler pushing 127 barnes easily over 3400. 100 g cutting edge pills would perhaps touch 4000 with H50? (I keep hearing it's a barrel burner but 1500 plus and still going) garbage out past 800 though.
200 g E-LDX pushing 3020 = speed bag at 1000
But get .338, 300 grains over 3100 fps and now we are starting to get somewhere... you need a wedge to get the ability out of it.
A beefy 30.06 hauling ass at 4k fps....
That sounds like the stuff of nightmares...
I’ve got the accumark MarkV in the 30-378 and the 300 Remington ultra mag it is a browning abolt both have. The stainless steel chrome Molly lined barrel my cousin is in Weston Col. elk hunting with my my 300 run I think I’ll try that with my big Weatherby I also have 338/378 my 30/378 likes the h 50 BMG powered it is like a 454 it likes fuel where can I get the info on what kind of pill l can start with and me and my friend who has a 50 bmg was shooting some ar 5000 plants the 50BMG with a 660 grain bullet would just dent where the 30/378 with a 178gr eldx would shoot threw it all 3 s rounds went threw it
I shot the Remington Accelerators out of my Ruger M-77 in 30-06 back when they were still being made. I got around 1.5 inch groups at 100 yards, which was about as good as that gun shot anything. I never managed to get a coyote with them, but they sure could turn rabbits inside out!
Thanks for the .300 savage mention Ron ! What about the 22 Bee ? Is that the catridge thats mentioned ? The 5 ×35 ..
I may have to buy some of thoise sabots.. not for super high velocity, but instead I'm thnking I can make great plinking/ small game/ varmit rounds for my 308 (Rem 700). Maybe even some in higher weights (70+gn?) for deer ??? I already have everything but the sabots :)
300 blackout with a 55grain 223 cal sounds a lot like a 223 REM /5.56 NATO. Lol
Those are interesting. But pushing much over 5,000 fps I wonder, some of those bullets might come apart. I know Hornady 50 gr SPSX is only rated to 3500 fps, I wonder what the limits are on some of the other stuff like 50 gr V-MAX
I suggest that stabilizing the bullet might be a problem. You can't just stabilize a particular bullet in any twist rifle. I have a 24" Varminter .223 with a 1:9 twist that absolutely loves a Hornady 60 grain Vmax bullet at 3100 fps and has grouped as small as 5 shots into .29 inches at 100 yds and stays well below MOA at 300 with not much wind. On the other hand, it is difficult to get satisfactory results with a 50 grain or over 69 grain bullet with that gun. It seems I've read that the Ruger .204 can spit them out over 4000 with factory loads but haven't seen accuracy data. Barrel life is probably pretty iffy with those really fast bullets.
Sadly, nothing shooting sabot rounds can be accurate enough for me to be interested, velocity regardless. I've been reloading for years and I've experimented with sabot stuff like this and I was never able to get anything with acceptable accuracy. I don't believe I ever even got below 1.5 MOA, and the plastic nature of the sabots always resulted in random wild fliers.. What good is shooting at something with a bullet going 5200fps if it whizzes right by the target?
I love your channel, but I kind of had to laugh when you mentioned how cool it would be to shoot a 55gr sabot bullet through a 300 blackout, and how you could get really interesting performance from that. 300blk is a necked-up 5.56. You'd be launching a 5.56 bullet at the same velocity a standard AR produces, but with dramatically reduced accuracy......I just don't get it...
It's probably something that could be solved....if somebody put enough R&D into the polymers involved and could produce them to exacting tolerances.....sure. I could see that working. But plastics are more susceptible to temperature changes than any metal. Even with the best polymer blend, I don't see how you could use a load like this and not have wild inconsistencies based on temperature.
Great for short range weapons....you do get more performance. But after about 200m....the loss of accuracy is bad enough that sticking with a traditional option is probably a vastly superior option. Given that for nearly anything other than shotguns, bullet drop out to 200m is easily compensated for....I really just don't see the point.....
Since you like sabot rounds and if you are good at math. How about verifying the muzzel velocity of a 750 grain BMG round in a sabot sleeve out of a 20xq138B mm round out of a M-39 Lahti
ISTR there was an effort to get +3500fps back 80s. Might have seen article in Am.Rifleman or Guns&Ammo. One stuck in my mind was a sabotted bullet. Accuracy was an issue like Ron mentioned. Never tried them. Interesting vid.
Have anyone tries to load 30-06 or 300 winmag with Sako .30 Hollowpoint 102 grs A146 bullets. I think that this light 6.6 g 7.62 bullet would be accurate, fast and easy to shoot tight groups also hit far.
Would love to have some of these sabo's. But, highly illegal here in Aussie.
For the reason you gave about the FBI. No lands marks engraved on projys.
Also banned are the frangible bullets. Nothing left intact to check for engravings.
Pity.They would be perfect in 223 for shooting foxes to harvest skins. Small hole in, no exit.
Wasn't the Accelerator a .223? I saw something say power is velocity squared times mass. Which a round bullet would transfer a lot of mass quickly, hydroshock. Impact with momentum.
But, looking at power, I'd need to calculate the power of the .223 at 4K per second. Yet, it should give lots of penetration, it'd seem it would create a vacuum as well. Which someone has probably shot deer with them. If so, what result did you have? Just curious as things do not always go how one would imagine. Maybe they are very effective if bullet is placed right, or as one fellow shooting a lighter .30-06 load, the .270 with solid point. The bullet went straight through and the deer kept running. Where the .270 is faster, reason used was for pipelines that are straight and go a long ways with flat trajectory.
Redid my Dads 220 AI Swift, can't wait to break the sound barrier with some 62gr Sptzrs, this summer
Wasn't it one of the big amunition manufacturers way back in the early 70s came out with a sabot round refered to as the expiditors???🤔🤨 I might be a little off in the name but they were plastic sabot rounds as well!!!
This sounds great and all, but if you change the diameter of the bullet/projectile it’s no longer a 30-06 or 30-30 etc. so therefore you are NOT shooting a 30-06 at 4000 ft. all you’re doing is using a 30-06 case to shoot a 20 caliber bullet/projectile! 🤦♂️ everybody is more than welcome to do whatever they please, I just don’t see The common sense or rational thinking on this, to me if someone’s wanting to shoot a smaller caliber bullet really fast, there are a slew of them available and that have perfected it.
A 300 blackout with a 55 grain sabot would just be a .223 with extra steps though right? If i remember right the 300 blackout is just a .223 necked up to fit a .308 round
I'm wondering what Hornady ELD bullets would do if they make them in.224 cal. I would think that is is where the in accuracy is coming from the bullet has to be melting down going that fast
Excellent. This. Video. Refreshed. A. Conversation. I. Was. Privileged. To. Be. Around. In2010. The. Debate. Was. If. Or. When. 4000. Fps. Would. Be. Reached. And. My. Only. Words. Were. They. Did. As.i. Grabbed. The. Box. Of. .06. Excellerators. Now. Let. Me. See. If. I. Got. This. Right.. the. Good. Old. 250...3000. Got. Us. Past. The. 3000fps. Hurdle. The. The. Good. Old. 30.06. Acc....got. us. Past. 4000. Fps.hurdle. And. Now. The. 300. Win. Mag. With. Acc... bullet. Has. Us. . Closing. In. On. The. One. Mile. Hurdle. 5280. Fps. That. Is. Thanks. Have. A. Nice. Day...
Screw it get a 50bmg casing and load it with a 77 grain bullet I bet you'd get like 7,000fps easy if not just fill the 50.shell casing with c4.....
The .30-.378 has put out 6,000 fps with a 30 grain .308 bullet. Now that’s lighter than a lead ball of the same diameter sooo yeah very very fast!!!
Bullets don't hold up unless solid copper and even those just explode. I know this from messing with the 22-243 midelstead, get over 3500 and bullets turn into mini frag grenades.
Has anyone thought of using a copper gas-check ( cast bullet enthusiasts will know what I'm talking about) on the bottom of the sabot ?? Or even a half copper-cup sabot to prevent plastic fouling ??? Yes, they're extra steps, but it would make the sabot option more shootable (and cleanable ) !!!!
Those Remington Accelerators were good for groundhogs when i was a kid my dad used them in his bolt action but his friend tryed them in his rem 7400 and cloged the gas ports
Friend of mine used to shoot coyotes with his 06 with 24 inch barrel. Accelerator ammo . One head shot I remember at 60 yards turned everything inside to melted Jello. Did NOT exit . Instant death. No pelt damage. What about 70 grain 6mm out of a 7mm rem mag?
Bought a box of 30-06 acceelerators in the late 80s, early 90s. Only shot a couple and was told that the nylon sabot would damage the rifling if over used. So put them away. Still have and did not realize that they are now collectors items. If remember correctly were advertised at about 4200 fps. Ones I shot crono'd at 3980 so fairly close.
I’ve heard Roy Weatherby went over 6,000 fps with a 30-378 trying to develop something for the government, I think he was using sabots.
I have a guy in our Sherman wildcat group slinging 120 .30 cals out of his 30 Sherman Magnum 4017fps!
Good lord, a full mile every second.
3,600mph… you could shoot an SR-71 at full speed with that…
I have been shooting a 30/30 Ruger No.1 and using Sierra 53 grain BTHP and getting 3200 to 3300 FPS with a Sabot load. The load duplicates the 319 Donaldson Wasp load using the same bullet. Accuracy is not the greatest. 1-1/2 at 100 yards but for a single shot hunting rifle it is acceptable. Part of the reason that accuracy is not as good with a sabot is that the sabot separates from the bullet as soon as the bullet / Sabot leaves the barrel and the bullet becomes unstable. It is speculated that since the bullet does not engage the rifling whereas the sabot does this is the reason the accuracy deteriorates. Nothing conclusive but certainly makes sense.
Not knocking this by no means cause im a huge fan of options. But one thing you mentioned is loading a sabot 55 gr 22 caliber bullet in a 300 blackout case. I dont understand that one cause unless im wrong, the 300 blackout is just a 223 loaded with a heavier larger 30 caliber bullet. So if you did this with the 300 blackout wouldnt you just be reverting it back to what that cartridge was trying to get away from with its parent cartridge. And would it not then essentially be its parent cartridge? All the others i get. But i cant get over converting a 223 to a 300 blackout just to convert it back to a 223.
You mentioned loading the .300 Blackout with a saboted 55gr, why? I mean why not just shoot 5.56/.223?
I got 1 right.used to pack 1 clip of 55's 1 with 165 Sierra boat tails, and loaded with 220 fat nose in the Rem 742 carbine. My 1st Alaskan Rifle. 1978. Next was the Sako 300 with mag, 81. Still using both. Trapper scotty, Alaskan
still have a box of rem 308, 55gr soft point num. on the box R308W5. no velocity stated. these were about 6 moa if I remember right. it's why I still have a factory box of them. shot up a bunch of them and they really weren't worth a shit. might of been the gun, old rem. that wasn't very accurate anyway. I have a sub moa 308 nowadays might be worth trying again but i'd bet money it wouldn't be to far from that 6 moa. That dates how long I've been hand loading cause I started shortly before I got theses.
Look up the required rate of twist to bullet weight.....
That's why they stopped making them. The bullets would not stabilize.
rifles and ammo from the 70s that could hold a 2 MOA group was accurate for its day, so if the accelerators in the 70s were shooting 2 MOA that's not terrible. I mean, now if your factory rifle shoots 2 moa with factory ammo its junk in my mind; I know it still kills deer or hogs or whatever. not my point.
This is really interesting! I did not know EABCO even existed. Yes, it would be fun to experiment. I remember the 30-06 Remington Accelerator. Very light recoil but poor accuracy. However, I never tried shooting one from a clean bore!
Barrel Burners is what I’d call them. Thought about a 85/90 grain capping a 325 wsm. But a blade of grass might blow it up. lol