Bigger Bullets Better!
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- Опубликовано: 11 апр 2022
- Welcome to the Ron Spomer Outdoors Channel! In today's video, I give my opinion on a heavily debated topic: Are bigger bullets better than smaller bullets? Keep watching to find out!
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Website: ronspomeroutdoors.com/
Facebook: / ronspomeroutdoors
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Who is Ron Spomer
For 44 years I’ve had the good fortune to photograph and write about my passion - the outdoor life. Wild creatures and wild places have always stirred me - from the first flushing pheasant that frightened me out of my socks in grandpa’s cornfield to the last whitetail that dismissed me with a wag of its tail. In my attempts to connect with this natural wonder, to become an integral part of our ecosystem and capture a bit of its mystery, I’ve photographed, hiked, hunted, birded, and fished across much of this planet. I've seen the beauty that everyone should see, survived adventures that everyone should experience. I may not have climbed the highest mountains, canoed the wildest rivers, caught the largest fish or shot the biggest bucks, but I’ve tried. Perhaps you have, too. And that’s the essential thing. Being out there, an active participant in our outdoor world.
Produced by: @red11media
Disclaimer
All loading, handloading, gunsmithing, shooting and associated activities and demonstrations depicted in our videos are conducted by trained, certified, professional gun handlers, instructors, and shooters for instructional and entertainment purposes only with emphasis on safety and responsible gun handling. Always check at least 3 industry handloading manuals for handloading data, 2 or 3 online ballistic calculators for ballistic data. Do not modify any cartridge or firearm beyond what the manufacturer recommends. Do not attempt to duplicate, mimic, or replicate anything you see in our videos. Firearms, ammunition, and constituent parts can be extremely dangerous if not used safely. 
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The bullet placement discussion always reminds me of the .22 long rifle. It has probably killed more +100lb animals than all other rounds combined. Just because of its use as a tool for slaughtering cattle and hogs. I grew up on a farm in the Midwest and never saw anything else used to slaughter livestock. I know they use air tools now for that job now, but for decades it was the humble .22 rimfire that took down 1200-1500lb cattle and 200-300lb hogs. Our farm had an old Winchester pump that never left the barn, and a little box of ammo sat on a shelf next to it. That little pump .22 killed more animals that any hunting rifle I can ever imagine. It's not the same as hunting as shots are head shots, and the distance is really close, but the .22 did the job, and most people don't realize just how deadly a .22 can be.
And at the average range of 1 inch 👍
homeinthewhiteoaks. - Yep! My Grandpa (Paternal) was a butcher, slaughterhouse worker, and later a sausage maker after he retired. When he started at the slaughterhouse, his job was at the top of the ramp with a sledgehammer. {He was a big, strong man, but barely literate.} He hit the bovine with the sledgehammer, where the head meets the neck. Bovine falls down on the floor and the guys with the knives and cleavers went to work immediately.
Later, the owner of the company bought a .22 caliber rimfire pistol and Grandpa used that, one shot behind the ear and the bovine hit the floor dead.
Bullet placement is extremely important as Ron Spomer mentioned, and as extolled by legendary professional hunter, W.D.M. Bell.
As you correctly stated: this was close to the animal work, not the lunatic wacko idea of guys like Roy Weatherby and taking 500 yard shots at a game animal. ☹
An uncle of mine married a gal who was a bush school teacher in Alaska, mid 1950's. Moved up there to be around her. He was actually, normally a cowhand on ranches in the Western States. They were snowed in, no grocery store for about 300 miles, and they were starving. No food left. He looked out the window, and a moose was in the "yard" pawing at the snow looking for some grass or bushes, or flowers to eat. Uncle had four .22 LR cartridges, and a .22 semi-auto rifle. Slowly opened the cabin door aimed at the chest of the moose. fired all four .22 bullets into the moose's chest, about 20 yards away, and moose feel over dead. They ate. Next summer, he moved back to the lower 48 and resumed cattle work. 😉
{[ P.S. No, folks,,, you should NOT normally use a .22 rimfire to harvest moose. Desperate times/situations sometimes happen and a person uses what is available. I read ( years ago) of an incident in the "Armed Citizen" column in "American Rifleman" magazine of a young woman using her Bow with target point archery arrows to stop a burglar/attacker inside her house once. ]}
I completely agree, but I'm still not taking a 223 for brown bear, and you never hear anyone say the 327 is perfect for grizzly backup.
@@Greyzonecompliant Is that one inch range? ruclips.net/video/X5JRDFB7QIM/видео.html
A .22 short had the record grizzly for quite a few years
Great video, Ron. Always appreciate you sharing your decades of experience.
I've taken north American white tail deer with a .270 Winchester, a 7mm ultra magnum, and a 7mm and I have basically settled on the .270 for everything but maybe a large dangerous bear for 3 reasons (1) it shoots very flat out to at least 300 yards (2) obtaining decent relatively inexpensive ammunition is pretty easy (3) I consider the recoil to be substantially less than the magnum rifles I've had so I can mentally approach my shot with zero fear in my mind. Just my opinion guys and gals.
That was my dad's favorite caliber. He swore by it and loved the article's by Jack O Conner.
Yes, that good old 270 is hard to beat as a hunting round. One of my favorite rounds of all time.
270 is a great all around caliber. My dad has a 300WM that he couldn't shoot anymore because of his shoulder, so I took his rifle to a gunsmith and had him install a muzzle brake on it. Then I switched out the light weight synthetic stock with a Boyds stock which made it slightly heavier. Now my dad can shoot his 300 again and it doesn't hurt his shoulder. I'll admit the changes reduced the recoil quite a bit, but there are trade off, such as the concussion and the sound of the shot was significantly increased, but walkers game ears solves that.
That’s fine at 300 yards Until he starts running I shot one 250 yards in the shoulder broke the shoulder blade and out the other side and cracked the other shoulder at an angle of course 15 shells later all in the chest he was at my feet me and my father are shooting
He’s a advocate of flat shooting high speed that’s good for him give me Lead I can tell you right now my 375 H&H kicks Less than 300 Winchester mag
My thought is…..Which bullet is most accurate?
My 35 Whelen patterns remarkably with 250 grain bullets but is scattered somewhat with the super-fast 200 grain Superformance factory loads. No doubt, the 200’s will flatten just about anything that walks. But the 250’s are so accurate that it’s scary. I love scary accurate!
What is the twist rate?
In my experience with my rifles, faster doesn’t usually mean more accurate.
Only accurate rifles are interesting.
Townsend Whelen. Good and true comment still today.
Similar here... tried the 200gr Superformance in 35 Whelen and at 100yds, it's just not tight at all (4" groups). 200gr Remington green box are tighter even though they're a lot slower. They'll still work just fine because it's still a lot faster than a .35Rem which will put them in the freezer really well.
Ultimately...
Choose the appropriate cartridge - bullet combination for the task, hunting or punching paper.
Follow up with accuracy and shot placement.
Thanks for the video...
I love the way Ron explains things. Keeps my attention and explains it very well. Love watching him!
Ron, That was a great discussion: weight, diameter, velocity, bullet design, construction, and, of course, shot placement… (day of the week and sock color?) I think you covered just about all but the most important thing, we all need to get out and go hunting, no excuses, just go! I enjoyed your explanations and reasoning, as always, rock solid!
I have only recently been listening to you talk, Ron, and I am enjoying your manner, and conviction of experience. This article is a great example of how you manage the discussion. There are a lot of us old dudes that are amazed at the questions being asked about cartridges! Rather than spew my/your thoughts about “The Obvious”…I am listening to your clear and balanced explanations..That’s commendable, and adds to our younger
Best explanation on the subject of weight,speed,bullet construction I've heard. Learned alot. Awesome content as always. Thanks so much.
Great presentation. I live i Sweden and you now that 6.5×55 is our nationalcalibre. I now you benen talking about the 6.5 calibers,and how high SD they have.
I shot a big bullmoose about 200 yards. The bullet 156 grain norma oryx passed thru both shoulderblades and vas stuck in skin on the other side. The bullet vas 0,55 inch expanded. Of corse i handload so it has a little more power than factoryloads.
Your wideos are always great👍
What make of rifle do you use..? ..greetings from Tupelo MS.
@@camwinston5248 Lakelander made in Finland. They then vas made in Sweden and become Varberger
@@markusljunggren6275 Thankyou for the reply..i will check them out...i have been looking at the Sako..wonderful quality but expensive...the Tikka is popular here for some time,great quality an value for the price.. I was interested in what you were using there. Have a blessed wonderful day !
@@camwinston5248 You can find older Husqvarna for good price. But it has to be one with m98 action to handle heavier loads.
@@markusljunggren6275 great information..thankyou..are the 9.3 calibres popular in your area as well.? We like the 35whelen and 45/70 here
Thanks for covering sectional density. I admit I didn't understand the importance of sectional density until I got into reloading my own ammo. I believe it needs to taken into account more often when discussing the right bullet for your hunt or in self defense. I would like to hear what you think is the right amount of sectional density in a bullet for deer size animal, elk size animal or dangerous game size animal. Thanks again.
I usually set the SD at .250 or better for bigger deer & .230 for smaller deer (150# or less). In addition, SD of.270 or better for elk, because your driving through about 50% more animal (as a general rule). If you check on what guides generally recommend, you'll find the bullets will almost always fall into these categories, regardless of caliber or velocity. Hope this helps.
Awesome ballistic lessons here. Long ago as a young man i wish you had taught my first semester Physics class in mechanics it would have definitely held my attention longer for a practical application i would use and experience while hunting. Well done you make this branch of applied physics fun!
My uncle whos 68 has deer hunted with a 243 his whole life. One of the best hunters I know by far...his garage full of deer heads and antlers is living proof a 243 will get the job done if you do your part...
Beware the one gun shooter -- so true. I started out with a 243 Win and any whitetail cleanly hit was about 50 ft away from where it was shot! I especially like Spear 87 gr PSP; perfect mush room every time. In the old days, the then new 250-3000 Savage was used on grizzly bears, These cartridges kill way over their expectations!
I like the 243 for deer also. Very good results and the bullet holes would often touch each other at the range. That gives confidence, which also helps success. Confidence in precise bullet placement is big.
@@michaellane4003 So, the .243 can give good, tight groups? Is recoil comparable to .223/5.56? I’m thinking about getting one, Ruger or Savage.
As always you give a lot of information. These choices are important and I think relative to where and how you hunt. An eastern hunter who will never have a shot over 50 yards does not need to consider flat trajectory, a western hunter who might want to consider a 200 300 or 900 yard shot is going to look at things differently. I really appreciate how you offer up all the insite you have accumulated and help us make more informed choices.
I loved your story, in another episode, of the man who killed a marauding grizzly bear with 7 shots from a .25-35 Winchester. I killed my first bull elk with my grandfather's much battered .25-35 when I was a senior in high school. I still own one my dad gave to me. They are a sweet little deer rifle, no recoil, no big bang, just a little 117 grain bullet loping along at 2,100 per second. So, yeah. Big bullets, velocity, all that comes down to putting the bullet into the critter's vitals. Thanks, Ron. Always enjoy your perspectives.
Well Ron, I think you solved the caliber wars:
Pick a round with a bullet constructed properly for its intended application. Use it within its velocity envelope, at appropriate ranges, and with good shot placement. Wow, suddenly it seems like the caliber wars are really just a lot of good options available for any given task. 👍
Every time Ron says, "We could probably cover that in another episode.", I'm like, "Yeah, do another episode!".
Love your channel Ron. Keep on doin' your thing!
This was a good video, thank you. Many different people believe differently on what is the best caliber and what is the best rifle etc. I can say that my dad has used a 243 caliber rifle almost his entire life. He grew up in Colorado and shot Colorado elk, mule deer, coyotes and even bear during his lifespan of living there. He continued on in other states killing the same wildlife and had no issues whatsoever. Yes he is an excellent shot, he had a light caliber and light recoil gun that he practiced with but he taught me many times about shot placement he said take the extra time and place your shot better and you will have a lot better success. I have only seen a couple animals that he hit that didn’t go down right away and I think some of that might’ve had to do with the type of bullets and ammunition he was using because he bought whatever was on the shelf the cheapest ammunition he could buy and never worried about it. You don’t have to have a big boy and a big caliber to take animals down! Having the velocity and better aim I believe makes a big difference and will be just fine for you most of the time also practice. It’s a lot easier to accomplish those things with the smaller calibers in my opinion. I use a 243 and a 6.5x55 swede And I’ve had no issues but other people use 7MM magnums in 4570 and they haven’t had issues either. I just know with the smaller calibers it makes me practice more and find to my shooting more because I know I might have to more often than what I would if I had a bigger caliber. It is paid off for me and my father
I own several different calibers the older I get the more I lean to 243 seems to do it all and easy on my bad shoulder
@@chuckydubree1925 I agree! It’s a fantastic And very capable caliber for any game.
@@wesleyhobbs9 I enjoy it and so does my shoulder got all the power I need for sure
@@chuckydubree1925 If you ever decide you want another caliber to complement your 243 that is easy recoiling but a little bit more power and take down power for game, I would highly suggest looking into the 6.5 x 55 Swede or the Remington 260. The Remington 260 ammo will be a little harder to find but it is a fantastic round with great ballistics and low recoil. The 6.5 x 55 Swede is extremely smooth very low recoiling, probably as low as the 243 or very close to it, but it’s devastating when it hits game. It has low recoil, but it’s like a truck. It is very popular in Europe and some of the other countries, and also hard to find ammo for. However if you find 6 to 10 boxes of ammo you’ll be set for quite a while. I have both of these calibers and other rifles I can tell you they’re both deadly accurate rifles and rounds.
Ron, I've been hand loading for nearly a decade out of the same manuals, just put two and two together recently that it was your words I've been reading in over half of them this entire time! No wonder I gravitate to your videos.
I never realized that. What books/manuala
@@allthingsconsidered3211 reloading manuals, believe berger is one, maybe hornady but there are several manuals with writings from Ron.
This video is a good lesson for newbies and a sound reminder for the more experienced. Good information. Thank you :-)
Great practical advice Ron. I noticed that when any bullet remains entire, its penetrating pressure is high and concentrated, which allows it to penetrate deeply with little radial tissue damage. The wound volume is low. When a bullet expands it undergoes "pressure inversion". That means the impact force that expands the bullet material will finally reach a balance and the bullet diameter and area will both increase. This larger bullet area will cause less pressure on the bullet and the tissue. However, impact energy can also be expressed as pressure times wound volume, so as the bullet pressure drops so does the wound pressure, but the wound volume increases! We end up with a shorter but wider diameter wound channel. It seems counter intuitive that less pressure should cause a bigger wound volume, but this is what the physical mechanism and the mathematics predicts. Terminal ballistics is a very interesting subject. I enjoy your honest presentations. Thanks Ron.
Once I go hunting, I'm going to use my .243 rifle for hog and deer, while a fellow friend of mine has stated that he doesn't change from .270, while another friend of mine has used .308s and .223s as well, so there's not a yes or no to that question
Use what your comfortable and happy with! All those will smoke em
You gave a great balanced presentation about the two "camps" Ron : I hope your listeners took on board your warning early in the video about heavy bullets being pushed fast ( magnum cartridge territory) and the trade off of heavy recoil for those characteristics. As always, really sound advice of the pros and cons of going in either of the two directions.... And I'll say it again for you ; know your game, and know your shot range ..!!!!
Great video Ron! I hunted almost exclusively with a .45/70 Marlin. I loved the cartridge and the gun, and I loved hand loading for it. I hit a 95lb doe in the left side with a 405 grain lead slug flying along at 1100 fps, and she crashed into the dirt and rolled over and passed. It was the most spactacular kill I have ever seen. But most of the time I hand loaded a 350 grain jacketed soft poin Hornady bullet that I pushed to 1900 fps. This load took a black bear and many deer but they all at least made 10 yards before giving it up. I always keep this mind with selecting pistol and rifle calibers and loads.
Light and fast for open lane or open country. Love to see a 6mm PRC come out. Great show Ron
I tend to stick with heavy for caliber.
160-175g in 7mm
And 180-200g in Win Mag.
I like recoil though- so have a .378 Weatherby,,, just for kicks…. 🙄
378 Weatherby yes. I have one to because my xp100 handgun is a 375 H&H. Nobody ever shoots the 378 on you tube because it’s the worst. Even the big gun magazine authors don’t want to touch it. The 458 Lott is a puppy compared to it. We are a special breed.
Thanks Ron for effort. I consider this important topic as lot of people are "confused" about it.
Another great video with great knowledge. I would really enjoy this kind of knowledge and information pertaining to slugs, 12 20 and .410. Thanks Ron.
I can't help but feel Ron looked at my comments on the 308 vs 7mm08 last night and made this video just for me lol! Great video Ron, keep it up
Another good talk with Ron, I will be working at that time but will catch it as soon as I can. Thanks again Ron. Good shooting to you and your fans. 💪🏽💯👍
I truly enjoy all the info on the different bullets and calibers. Would like you to go over the big boar’s like 470 nitro, 458 Lott, 505 Gibbs and others for dangerous game.
Great talk. I confess you went a different direction than I expected from the title though I think your slant on the question was better. But I’d be interested to see a comparison of different bullet weights within a caliber (such as 150 grain vs 180 grain vs 220 grain in .30-06) or some such. Obviously bullet construction is always a big consideration here as well.
This statement reminds me of Finn Asgard’s eventual preference of hunting everything non-dangerous with a 308 with only 150s. Just matching bullet construction to the game animal. A different path that’s yours but the same outcome I think
@@robertfree1908 Was that Finn? I know Jeff Cooper was a proponent of the .308. Everything I ever read by Finn supported the 30-06 with 180gr loads. Even his choice for a one rifle battery was his FN Mauser 30-06 with a 22" barrel and a Leupold 1.75-6 running 180's.
@@christopherramsey1509 I’d have to research it. I read that particular article I want to say ‘97. I know that he loved the 7x57 and the 375 H&H. I do remember him relying on the 308 at that time while he lived in Llano, TX. And I do remember him stating that he preferred 150s of differing construction for different game with that cartridge. I remember he had good things to say about the ‘06. But it wasn’t a preference of his. I remember him stating that he had a chance at a owning a 30-06 but he decided it was too close in power to his 375. And that he got a 7x57 instead. That baffled me at the time. From the time I starting understand calibers and ballistics I thought the ‘06 was closer to the 7x57. But that is what the man said. And I so looked forward to his articles in Rifle and Handloader. The one I look back in most fondly is his comparison of the 338-06, 35 Whelen and 9.3x62. In his test the 9.3 came out on top. I love em all honestly. Medium bores are the cat’s meow
Always love your knowledge!
When Ron was talking about cross sectional density coupled with shot placement, I was reminded of a stonemason sledgehammer that I have had the pleasure of using (pffft, NOT). It was very long and narrow. The first time I saw one I questioned its physics value. But the more I used it the more I understood what it was doing.
Great video Ron!!
I too am a big bullet less recoil kinda guy. Therefore my go to rounds are 224 Valkyrie, 444 Marlin and the 338-06. Would love to see a vlog on the 338-06.
And another on that 444! Hornady, please bring back the 265gr Flat Point Interlock!
I love my 444 as well
338-06 is the obvious "one they won't let us have". Just prohibitive in Canada to custom up. There were a run of Cooper rifles up here, but still pricey.
I lost interest when I discovered the 9.3x62. Obviously not comparable, but the idea is: "If I have anything for light game, say 6.5mm to 30 caliber, the 9.3x62 does everything else". And for some reason (I say that because metrics are not popular up here generally) they are very available up here. From cheap military rifles, to Blasers.
@@HondoTrailside I would say there as well as here in Texas you could do all you rifle hunting with 22lr, 6.5x55 Swede(a favorite of mine), and 9.3x62. I wish Kimber would make a run of 338-06s like they did 35 Whelens. I just love the 84L! What are the most popular rifle cartridges there?
444 Great for moose
I have always argued that the Weatherby magnums had relatively high effective accuracy. Not to say that a 240 will set a bench rest record. Rather, a fast bullet reaches the animal before it moves too much. The key to using magnums when you are used to slower rounds is to drop a caliber size. If you hunt dear with a 30-06, try a 250 Weatherby (not a 300 Weatherby) as a direct substitute.
Ron,, you videos are SECOND to none.. You are the G.O.A.T!!!
This is definitely one video that would help the new comer and help settle the debate for us oldies
Hi Ron!! Thanks as always for the info!!
Hi Ron, Love your videos and appreciate all the valued information you give us all. I was wondering what you thought of the Winchester 358 and how it stands out to other calibers for medium to large game. Thank You for any info.
In terms of velocity, a .233/5.56 seems to generally work for the military, although debate abounds! One of my favorite cartridges right now is the Speer Gold Dot .233-ranging from 55 grains and up. It stays together, but mushrooms out to about 1/2”.
Learning something and enjoying it is, what's that word, Oh, enjoyable. Thanks!😁
OK you have convinced me (not that it took much convincing) that 7MM, 175gr bullets from Nosler partitions to Federal fusions among other well designed brands are the way to go from 7X57, to 284 Winchester, 280 Remington and up to 7MM Rem Mag are the way to go for deer sized game and larger. A bit of overkill on most deer at average ranges but they can't be over dead.
They can be over meat ruined.
@@HondoTrailside Yes but if you shoot them thru the rib cage nothing to worry about. Into the right ham and out the front right shoulder and you might not have enough good left to be worth dragging to the truck. Aim for and with the exit hole in mind.
and the Elmer Keith/ Jack O'connor debate lives on!
Thanks Ron.I appreciated and we always Learn a lot from your video.
And thanks for yet another great video, Ron!!
I think I learned more in this eleven and a half minutes than I have in 30 years of shooting. I've only really started getting into the mechanics of all this in the past couple of years, a lot to catch up on.
Good presentation, of the basics of using the right gun and the right bullet for the critter your targeting. Balance it all out and you'll find, what us old timers figured out.. And that is the Winchester 270 with the 130 gr fast expanding bullets (Nosler ballistic tip or Sierra game king) for smaller under 300 lbs critters and the 150 gr Nosler partition for critters over 300 lbs. does the trick. Similar can be said of the 30-06, 308, and the whole list of 7mm's.
Mr.Spomer makes very valid points in this post. To make his point even more clear go on RUclips and look up Hog vs .22lr and you will see a HUGE hog take a 40 grain standard velocity.22lr behind the eye below the ear and drop like a stone. The bullet did exactly what it was designed to do beautifully!!
Pork Chops!!🐗🐗🐗🐗🐗🐗🐗🐗
At what distances are you talking about? Would that same huge hog dropped if the shot was at 200 yards? My buddy operate an elk farm and when he needed meat, he would use a 22lr and place right behind the ear like you said and it drops like a tone of bricks but that is a point blank range.
@@Matt-qd7sd
The post that I saw was 25 yards and the rifle was a Savage bolt action and the scope was night vision. However it was very effective!
I tend to think that the bullet you will best kill game with is the one your particular rifle shoots best within the ranges you are comfortable taking game.
Best is normally accuracy, and that is important, and the one thing one can really massage. But once you have reasonable accuracy, bullet performance does mater, unless you are shooting a moose gun on a mouse. I tend to agree with what you are saying in the sense of we don't really have to overthink it. A lot of problems come from trying to solve every problem to the max, and then you can actually get total failures. And example of that is people shooting target bullet on game.
@@HondoTrailside I tend to keep my hunting fairly simple and fairly close range, most areas I hunt 150 years would be a very long shot indeed. My .30-30 like 170 grain remington cor-lokts and has produced two holes in most deer sized critters. My .30-06 like 220 grain hornady interlocks and again generally produces two holes. While I wouldn't consider either of these "moose guns on a mouse" for deer the loads expand well, go where you aim em
Very well said and great video as always keepem coming brother!!!
Explained extremely well Ron. Thank you.
Good talk Ron. As much as I'd like to utilize some efficient rifle cartridges, the terrain I live in really limits my use. Then there are the stupid laws we have in place. Half the state is limited to shotgun or straight walled cartridges only and the entire state is mostly wooded with the exception of some large fields here and there. I was using a 30-30 and now I settled on a 350L. The 350L allows me to hunt state wide with no exceptions and after practicing at various ranges, I'm very comfortable shooting it out to 250 yards, 200 for game harvesting. For target practicing at long ranges, I've shot many calibers, but the one that is really growing on me is the 50BMG. It's amazing how efficient those big bullets are, especially the Amax rounds.
Ron I never miss one of your videos, and much of the time I agree...now Ive only been hunting for 60 years, and 23 of that in the Marines, so Im not sure I qualified to make this statement...but I will....all this about bullets is hogwash as you can hunt ANY animal in the continent successfully with a 30.06 and a Nosler partition by just changing the size of the bullet...these days I use a 150/165 grain on anything smaller than bear and moose and a 200/225 on bear and moose....that's all I need. And yes, I know its how you make your living so now Ill shut up.
Well said
Better bullets are better.
You mean bigger?
@@bigjon576 better bullets are better. Bigger bullets are bigger.
I pick .3o cal because of the bullet selection and they seem to be on the shelf all the time
As always Ron you hit the nail on the head as the saying goes. The majority of people are taking animals at 200 yards or in. Caliber size is less of an issue in that scenario. Now if you are seeking a longer range 400-600+ yard solution there are, as you note, variances in construction, length, twist, and on and on that can either help or hinder that option. Ultimately for me, .284 is the caliber of choice. I use a brake or even a suppressor at times on my 28 Nosler however to mitigate recoil.
It is so important to select the appropriate bullet construction. To me this is especially important in high er velocity rounds. A good example is 270. You better choose a bullet that is not going to explode upon contact at 3000 fps. I do not think there is enough information available for bullet types and their uses/capabilities.
True!!! The 30-06 and 270 Winchester cartridge family strike a very good balance between the two extremes.... especially when hand loaded! A 130 or 150 grain bullet from the 270 or 30-06 will absolutely explode hitting certain game at 3000+ fps!
I often hunt in fairly thick cover and along shot for me would be 100 yards and 90% of the time 50 yards or less. For this type of hunting I like big bore bullets.... 44 mag , 35 rem, 45-70. I would pick one of those over a 223 in these conditions every time.
@@markhansen8078 indeed those are good choices...in those conditions for the game I like to hunt I think I would go for a flat or round nose 170 grain 30-30....DRT! :-)
I'm liking the combination of a big heavy fast bullet like a Nosler or or a Weatherby cartridge or even possibly the 35 Wehlen‼️👍👍👍👍
It’s great to see you mention Sectional Density in the overall formula !
Great vid....a lot of people forget about SD when comparing rounds. One thing about heavy/slow vs light/fast debate:
You have to consider energy content as the bullet slows. A 55 grain bullet that strikes A target with, say, 1k lbs of force, will lose alot of energy after it enters the target because it slows down, and more of it's energy is a function of speed vs a large bullet like a 180 grain bullet with the same energy. It retains that energy because more of the energy is a matter of weight.
Sorry, but I got a little confused you said "and more of it's energy is a function of speed vs a large bullet like a 180 grain bullet with the same energy". This is true because the equation involves mass and velocity squared. However in the next sentence you said "It retains that energy because more of the energy is a matter of weight." This bit is not true. Momentum is comprised of mass and velocity (but not squared) so there is no advantage. What becomes important here is the SD, in that MORE mass for a given calibre means a longer bullet and thus more mass along the longitudinal axis of the bullet, which aids penetration.
Ikr?! I get tired of the videos where some yahoo is comparing a 150gr .308” vs a 150 7mm🙄. Some people just don’t understand “apples and oranges”
The bullet starts to slow down as soon as it enters a target. So if its going 2,000 ft per second on the first inch, its maybe going 1,000 feet per second on the second inch, and 500 fps on the 3rd
(not real numbers)
Following that same curve but using different velocities, a heavier bullet will retain more of its energy on the second and 3rd inch.
Go into excel and do the equations from full speed to full stop and you will see what I am talking about. a heavier bullet -with the same energy - will lose less of its energy as it slows down than a lighter bullet.
@@michaeldalton1874 Firstly, I may have misunderstood what you were trying to say as the sentence structure was kinda difficult to follow, but now I see what you are saying.
Off course a heavier bullet going faster will retain more energy - it has more to start with- more m and more v. As it slows down and loses velocity, the energy level reduced because its V squared that's important. But dont forget that the smaller lighter bullet with a high SD punches above its weight for a given calibre and that is a different calculation not shown in the graph.
@Robert Free
Well those are actually comparable in a good way since the 7mm is a necked down 308.
Thanks for a great educational video, Ron!
Going towards lead-free ammunition, - could you elaborate on whether one, in general terms, should go up in caliber (to keep bullet length and weight), - go down in caliber (to get more speed and “drive”), - or maintain (to get more bullet length and "drive")?
For the same recoil and kill effect, so to speak ...
Thanks a lot, in advance!
So for lead free, you can just look at it as ask yourself "will it work?". In most cases, changing the bullet to say a Barnes tripple, improves performance, almost regardless of the parameter. There are deep penetrating and expanding options. So if you shot factory ammo, and moved to Barnes, if would be an uptick. Noslers partitions are possibly still the best all around bullet for conventional hunting. The one problem with Barnes is a somewhat reduced range bracket at which they will perform. You need to keep the velocity up. Nosler partitions always perform.
The more complex problem is to look at specifics of the bullet, cartridge, ogive, chamber, how will all that work out. You are down to a few bullet choices in Barnes, so reloading is better to get the performance. If the Bullets have to be set back further in the case, then there are some instances where you might loose case capacity more than you would want, this is typical of certain case designs, then if the velocity drops below the ideal you need for performance, due to the velocity bracket you need you have a problem. But there are no one size answers. Or you are loosing accuracy because of the bullet choice not shooting well for you. These kinds of things are case by case.
Good content Ron. My go-to favorite is the .375 H&H. I'll relate the reasoning is that it is so well-rounded, versatile at mid-heavy. Feeding it just about any projectile in my go-to 300 grain (and no matter basic to high-zoo constructed bullets) get it done in multi-environments/seasons/conditions reliably, non-picky accurately, w/ predictable trajectories, and generally manageable enough for carry and recoil in my rifles. All my .375s wear scopes and irons. Stainless/synthetics plus stainless/synthetic/coating are my preferences. Some say... ahh, that's way over kill for game animals such as Blacktail Deer --- but not when that hunting circumstance often necessitates watchfully processing then prudently prepared for packing out through steep, thick, slick, boreal rainforests and/or camping out with coastal Bears. I've been using this round since I was a mid teen and I'm over 50 nowadays... speaks to addressing meaningful fundamentals as well as demonstrating the importance of familiarity and consistency afield.
Brilliant video Sir Ron! Second to no one in information and presentation.
Great explanation. This actually made great sense!
I still love my .338 Win Mag chucking my 185 grain TTSX's at 3,100FPS. Does the job everytime
A 120 g Hornady vmax is like a bomb in a 7mm08 within 250m on Goats. Keep up the good videos👍🏻
I've recently been comparing sectional density between calibers when considering comparisons, more than energy numbers. While I take energy into consideration, it's not fair to compare things with unlike sectional densities because they simply aren't the same ratio in their given caliber. Get the same diameter-to-length ratio between different calibers, and go from there.
From my experience it is Really hard to beat a 7mm-08 and 243 great info love the mid size calibers easy on my Ole shoulder
There are so many choices in calibers and so many different hunting applications. Hunting on a budget, using a middle ground approach with proven technology, appeals to me.
Honestly as a hunting rifle(old-style autos[7600, BAR], bolt guns, falling blocks, lever guns) and revolver guy I’m just thankful for all the components and arms we have at our disposal from 22/55gr controlled expansion to 50 caliber solids and everything in between to experiment, practice and hunt with. So much variety to cover everyone’s taste. And you can switch flavors at will. Long live powder fired, brass cased game-getters!
250 grain Nosler AccuBond out of my .340 Weatherby going a little less than 2900 fps...Ahhh, I love the smell of IMR-7828 in the morning.
Ups, I grew up reading Elmer Keith, before reliable expanding bullets, He advocated large, had cast bullets, and no one then refuted him, BUT at the same time Jack O'Connor and the 270 Win , Both work
Great video Ron. 👍👍
Congratulations!!!! Great!!! Thank you very much!!!
Great video Ron and as always sage advice!
One of, if not the best analyses of size and speed.
Killed the biggest buck of my with an old 1886 Winchester in 45-90 and was shocked at how effective the cartridge was. Absolutely flattened the buck at ninety yards.
Biger case more powder and energy.Double bullet mass 2x more energy.Double velocity 4x more energy.Velocity is more important.45 ACP is big caliber ,heavy, but short and slow and small case and powder charge,so inefective for hunting or use on 30 yard plus distances .
"I, Hatchet Jack, being of sound mind and broke legs, do hereby leaveth my bear rifle to whatever finds it, Lord hope it be a white man. It is a good rifle, and killt the bear that killt me. Anyway, I am dead. Yours truly, Hatchet Jack."
I think the pressure air puts on a projectile is said to be 80 times greater in force than the force of gravity. Doesn't mass resist the forces applied better than a lighter object. So the faster a bullets travels the greater the air resistance. It seems the faster it goes the faster it would slow down so the addition of mass especially in good form to place the center of pressure efficiently would cause the bullet to carry with much more force at distance. Great velocity is not required if the mass of the bullet is high enough. Mass and lower velocity may cause much less capillary damage thus downing the animal and causing minimal meat loss. Just a thought which could be completely out of whack.
Biggest Bear ever taken in Penns Woods,(Pennsylvania) was about 840 lbs. Taken by a 30-30. It’s a monster exhibited at the Game Commission office lobby and maybe the Sportsman Show at Harrisburg. Actually glad I didn’t get it. There be no way I could move that or drag it out. Last time I talked to Gary Alt who first started as PA Bear expert there is still a couple close to 800 and was one a little over tagged but never taken. They tagged it while it slept in winter hibernation. FYI
I agree with both theory's, however I look at what I'm hunting and apply what will get the job done.
How big is the game is (mass) vs where I'm hunting (hunting field). Those are my two biggest concerns when selecting and rifle and cartridge. There's more that goes into it but those two are the first of the puzzle.
Great video, and sound info..
Interesting point about the faster bullet multiplying energy more than a heavier bullet. But even if a smaller, faster caliber completely penetrates a considerable animal, odds are it will leave a penciled wound cavity as opposed to proper expansion with a heavier/slower bullet that will "displace" more of its energy into the vital organs and still have excellent penetration. I think it is more about finding a well balanced recipe for your particular quarry, not a one size fits all solution. Bell was possibly the most prolific elephant slayer there ever was and ever will be, his story was a little different than most hunters of today.
🤣
I would like to go hunting for the first time. Need advice, is 556 ok? It would help me save money cuz I own an ar with 18 inch barrel. It’s not gonna be more than 150 yds. Thx guys
I recently switched to heavy round nose bullets 220gr interlock in 300. Win mag. At 2700fps I'm hoping to get the best of both worlds. I know I have lost a lot of BC but have gained a lot of SD. Round nose bullets in 30-06 are popular hear in the bush for moose. Is 300 win mag efficient or is 45-70 444marlin a better choice?
Just use your god given legs to get close to game-- shoot within 250 yards-- 308, 30-06 and 270 is all you need for everything. Wyoming guy
95+% of the time that's absolutely true
However, with today's modern bullets and efficient powders it's nice to be well practiced just in case a longer shot opportunity does presents itself .
For me my 7 Mauser and my 308, I would consider medium bullets. My 35 rem round nose being 200 grain I would call my big bullet.
I'd like to see more .338 federal, excellent brush cartridge. But it's all about shot placement and bullet selection. My standard is .270 Win, but I'm at the point now that I'm open to new ideas, because I'm bored, not because I need.
Shot placement is the key. Lighter or bigger bullets only kill clean with a good shot placement.
Take the .223 for example and deer.
I've killed +400 deer with the .223 and 55gr bullets. I been very successful over the years. Then comes the 69gr and the 70gr .22 caliber bullets. I started shooting the 70gr and with the right twist found out they were supper accurate. I started using them on 🦌 deer and realized after a few dozen kills that not only do heavier bullets kill better but they don't tear up as much meat.
I now use the .300blkout in a 12" barrel with suppressor and shoot +200gr bullets, all kills have been under 100 yards and it's like magic, they just kill deer and don't tear up the meat.....
my experiences.....
heavy is better for eating.
How have you killed 400 deer?
@@slugoo6474 in indiana I can kill 1 buck per year but multiple does in each county. Park hunts I can kill 1 buck and 2 does or 3 does. If I draw 2 park hunts (my average is 2) and kill 6 does those don't count against my yearly totals. I kill on average 10 to 25 deer each and every year. I hunt Montana, Colorado, Illinois, Kentucky, Tennessee, Ohio and my state Indiana. I can buy tags for any county and kill 96 deer a season in Indiana, legally. In 1995 I killed 3 elk, 4 mule deer, 6 antelope, 19 whitetails, 3 wild boars, 1 black bear and 67 snow geese. This was all done in 60 days. So yeah I'm not bragging but I've lost count on whitetails but it's well over 400. My uncle has killed 2x my number in deer. I ran into ted nugent one year durring bow season it had just started and I had killed my first deer of the year I asked him how many had he killed so far this year he said over 50.
@@danelobe2524 Jesus Christ where does all the meat go
@Dane Lobe, he he, you kinda just described the modern 30-30 170gr load. "I now use the .300blkout in a 12" barrel with suppressor and shoot +200gr bullets, all kills have been under 100 yards and it's like magic, they just kill deer and don't tear up the meat..... " My dad used to say that with the 30-30 or close cousin 32 Special, you could eat the meat right up to the hole.
All about shot placement..
But it doesneedto be big enough to damage something.
My wife listened while I was watching this. She was confused on what I was watching with bigger shank, more penetration, reaching deeper, bigger is better, more velocity, small still works if it is fast enough and so on.
True, Karamojo Bell killed a lot of elephants with the 7 mm Mauser. However, nobody tells us how many elephants got just badly injured and got away.
In the end there is nothing better than heavy for caliber bullets IMHO.
Can you do a comparison between the .270 WSM & 6.5 PRC? Thanks!
Just to let you know I didn't get my magnums because they had more power. I got them for a more simplistic reason. My wife said that I drooled on them so much that she was forced to buy them for me. However, it was a great feeling to hobble out on crutches to a nice sized water buffalo and pull the trigger on a .460 Weatherby mag and watch him crawl out of a pound to fall down on the shore. No, she still doesn't have any sisters.
“…sisters”😂
I feel it all depends on where you hunt and what you hunt and how you like to hunt. For example, we hunt Elk in big timber in Northern Utah. For the last 33 years all our Elk have been killed at distances from 25 yards to 250 yards. So, with ammo prices going up, I just bought 2 cases of 35 Whelen. I'm set for the next 20 years. It's in my basement.
Love your videos, Mr Spomer. A question occurred to me as I was watching. I have a sporterized M1917 rifle currently chambered for .30-06, and I'd like to have it rebarreled for a larger caliber. Based on the size of that action, will it handle the super long cartridges like .300 Wby, .33-378 Wby, or .338 Lapua? Is it wise to go with such a caliber, or is .300 Win Maga better, more efficient option?
Id really like to see you do a video/podcast with Nathan Foster on the subject of terminal ballistics.