British shooter here. Been shooting for 22 years. Just wanted to say that i love your channel and the way you explain things. I'm humbled to say that ive already learnt ALOT from your channel. We as shooters and hunters must always be learning.
I learned a LOT more about monolithic bullets in this one video than everything I've heard since they came out in the 80's. I have to say that while my Go To projectile for my -06 has been a Sierra 180 grain BT GameKing, I just might have to look into trying those newfangled bullets now for both excellent accuracy as well as on-target terminal performance. Thank you, Sir, for the video. Even if I didn't see it for about a year after you posted it. God Bless.
I designed a tubular bullet that allowed a high ballistic co-efficient . It had a good sectional density too which would "buck the wind". It also had vertical slits to allow it to mushroom upon impact. The fact that the weight of such a bullet is distributed at the periphery means that it is gyroscopically stable too. Strangely most cartridge manufacturers do not seem to realise that tubular bullets could give optimum external and good terminal ballistics making them flat shooting, wind bucking and good humane performers. Great video Ron!
@@fruitfarmfords8243 There are three ways to make a tubular bullet seal. If the bullet is contained within a parallel case ,like a 45/70 then a simple rear base wad would suffice to drive the bullet out of the barrel. The bottleneck cased ammunition is more complicated. A rear sabot onto a reduced diameter base allows the bullet to be driven conventionally. The split sabot will blow clear after the spinning bullet exits the muzzle. My own solution includes an internal ball bearing that drives the tubular bullet along and is blown clear on exiting the barrel. In the 1970's the army tried a 50 calibre Browning tubular bullet which did 5000 fps and carried supersonically for greater ranges . I think it was too light on impact for military purposes. A tubular design allows great sectional density so slow loss of velocity, momentum and energy. It can also be driven faster because it is lighter in weight,
All the informative discussion about monolithic bullets, ballistic coefficients and why the 6.5 Creedmore does what it does is a great opportunity to teach people who otherwise ignored or didn't know about these factors that make for a great rifle. Even though ancient cartridges like the 7X57 and 30-06 are great, what we shoot is getting a century-long update.
Another good bonus of bonded and copper projectiles is if you have to make a follow up Shot. Now I don’t condone shooting animals up the rear but if you put a poorly placed shot the first time, sometimes the only follow up shot you’ll get if from behind. With a bonded projectile you know for sure the projectile will punch far enough to hit vitals. With a cup and core you can’t be sure, it could penetrate 12 inches and not make any vitals
Ive had issues with picking lead fragments out of game meat in the kitchen so these copper bullets seem like a win. I like to see all the detail about performance. Made the switch over seem like a no brainer. Thanks for the insight Ron.
My Ruger American .270 shoots the Federal Power-Shok all copper really well. I was very impressed with them compared to the lead core that I’ve always used.
Possibly the most informative of all your videos! Great job! In 2017 I saw something that I would have sworn would never happen with a 165gr Barnes TSX from my 300 WSM. A friend shot a large 6x7 bull elk slightly quartering to, but almost broadside two times at 320 yards. The bull laid down briefly, but then got up and traveled approximately 150 yards before dropping for good. There was no blood where he initially laid down, nor along his trail that I was able to follow through disrupted pine needles on the forest floor. Both bullets impacted within three inches of each other, penetrating the back half of the on-side front shoulder and ranging through to just behind the off side shoulder. Both bullets failed to exit and were just under the skin on the off side, each beautifully mushroomed with all petals intact. Upon examination, we found a lot of hair packed inside the curl of each bullets petals. This particular bull elk had the longest winter coat of any elk that I've ever seen and my assumption was that the extremely long hair had initiated bullet expansion before entering the elk's body, which also could explain why there was no exit and absolutely zero blood, even around the entrance wounds. While that same bullet has performed wonderfully for me all other times, I think this case just shows that we should never assume anything and to be ready for follow-up shots, even when we are confident of bullet placement and the bullets 'normal' performance.
Yes. Trusting every bullet to perform perfectly every time is not wise. Always be ready to administer finishing shots, or, as many elk guides say, keep shooting until its dead! I've found that, in general, all animals remain conscious for several seconds after solid heart/lung shots. It isn't until blood pressure drops that they get dizzy and fall. And then, of course, it takes roughly 10 min. for brain cells to die from oxygen deprivation.
Got my first deer this year and i was able to recover the bullet. I used the cheap herters hunting ammo and the lead core separated from the jacket. Didnt seem to matter as it was a heart shot amd he dropped where he stood. (Probably helps that he was only 15 yards away)
The 165 -169 grain bullet's of various construction loaded in the 308 cartridge can be load developed reasonably enough to allow swapping between them for jump shooting in tbe forest through too open spaces with longer distances and the ensuing lower velocity impact. Nosler Partition, Hornady ELD, or BT's, and even bear driving Swift can all perform within their limits using the 308 cartridge.
I have 130gr Barnes TTSX's that I reload for my .270. I find those to be extremely accurate! The twist rate of the barrel and the length of the bullet must be a good match!🇺🇸✝🇺🇸
Garrett For Christ. Good day Sir, hope you are well. I want to start loading the TTSX bullets in a few different rifles and one happens to be a 270Win. Do you recall how many thousandths of jump to the lands you found your best accuracy in the 270Win.? I know all rifles are different as to what they prefer, but cutting down on time and money while experimenting is part of my goal. Thank you in advance for any information and or advice you can lend a fellow hunter/shooter.
@@stevepuyear2738 I can tell you what I load for it, but I'm not recommending any loads. I use the 130 grain Barnes TTSX bullet and load it with 53 grains of Hybrid 100v. Your load might be slightly different for your barrel's twist rate. Again, I'm not recommending any loads. Consult your loading manual. I hope this helps.🇺🇸✝🇺🇸
@@garrettforchrist2700 Garrett thank you for the data. My son's name is also Garrett. I'm always cautious and drop 10% off any recommended loads after consulting manuals. I was curious mostly as to the burn speed range of powder you were finding to work well in your particular setup. Thanks again and good luck out there this season. Be safe as well!
Man I've got to say you're like a prophet of the shooting world.Thank you so much for sharing your wisdom, knowledge,and lifetime accumulation of experience with us.I always take so much away from your videos. When I was a teenager I used to love reading columns from Colonel Jeff Cooper and I must say after listening to your wisdom bombs time and time again I feel very much like I did back then reading his columns so thank you again and please keep up the excellent work!
I like a through shot. Like a close shot from my bow. Lot of great info. I like the softer lead in muzzle loader bullets or in wad cutters. I have tried brass balls in the muzzle loader. I will be trying some copper bullets in the 308 150 grain. Great video.
Excellent! There is far too much chat about relative calibres and their effects and not about what bullet construction is best for different types of game depending up the nature of their hides, their size and whatever. @Ron please do a review of 6.5 and 7mm hunting bullets and tell us what is likely best for roe deer, red deer, wild boar (proper ones, not feral pigs) etc Love this channel, no b.s. and Ron doesn't have any dogmatic views, just evidence based understanding and experience. This and Hicock are my favourite shooting channels for sure.
Thanks Richard. As for best bullets, that's complicated and variable depending on impact velocities and shot placement. As a general rule, any bullet designed to expand 1.5 to as much as 2X while retaining sufficient mass to maintain momentum increases penetration. Bullets that "explode" shortly after impact (varmint bullets) can kill quickly if that fragmentation happens within the heart/lungs. Massive hemorrhaging. Intact bullets are more likely to lace completely through and retain sufficient integrity and energy to break bones and hide on the far side, leaving a large exit wound for blood trailing. I've found Barnes TSX and TTSX quite effective for all species in conjunction with the right cartridge/velocity, but in general game struck with them and all other controlled expansion bullets that retain most mass and penetrate deeply or completely through stand, walk, or run for 3 to as many as 10 seconds on average before "running out of air," meaning blood pressure drops and they faint, then expire. You typically see this as a wild dash, then vering off course, wobbling, stumbling, falling, a bit of kicking, done.
Thanks Ron, a good breakdown of the different bullet types. Years ago a good friend of mine got me on to the Barnes TSX bullets. I am mainly hunting white-tailed deer, but I found from my 7mm-08 that the performance on whitetails seemed to vary a lot. At times the deer would immediately drop, but most often they would run afterwards a fair ways. I heard that the TSX bullets were better suited to larger framed game, and that they may not have been expanding fully on white-tails to sufficiently dump the energy. Is there any merit to this claim? The main reason I switched away from them however was due to accuracy. I have not tried them again in that rifle for a long time, but I did load up some of the 100 grain TTSXs for my .257 Wby Mag, and they were the most accurate bullet I tested from that rifle. Right now I’m shooting Nosler Accubonds for everything, which I like. They are accurate and dependable. But I’m always game to try something different.
There is some merit to that claim, Aubrey, just as there is merit to some claims that (choose your bullet) sometimes "fails" because it didn't open or opened too much or... Notice the video clip of the Barnes bullet opening after passing through that apple, which is a bit smaller and lighter than a whitetail. But it has high water content. This created hydraulic pressure that forces open the hollow nose. Does this always happen on game? No. Perhaps some dirt or mud on the hide got in the nose cavity first. Perhaps the lungs were too insubstantial to initiate expansion. Perhaps... who knows. I have experienced it all with Barnes TSX, but the vast majority of times every Barnes bullet from the original X to TSX to TTSX have expanded well and terminated the target animal quickly. Some instantly, some after the usual short run (until blood pressure drops.) In the Dark Ages (1995) I fired 12 Barnes X bullets at 12 African animals sized from tiny steenbuck and duiker to kudu and eland. Each one expired. I did fire two more bullets as finishers on two as they lay expiring at our feet, but they were essentially done from the first hits. Now when I show up in Africa with Barnes the PHs (guides) say things like "Excellent. It's like a soft point and solid on one bullet." Can I guarantee every Barnes bullet will perform perfectly? NO. But I can't promise perfect performance from any bullet. Just too many variables with game. A big part of being a hunter is knowing how to track, and Barnes bullets generally punch through to leave a better blood trail for that.
Aubrey, in my answer I forgot to address your "dump the energy" question. Energy dump contributes little or nothing. Bow hunters know this. So do poachers who take deer with 22 rimfires. Energy beyond that required to expand the bullet (for more surface area to rip and tear vital tissue) and penetrate to/through maximum tissue (for increased hemorrhaging) is superfluous. The kinetic energy carried by the bullet is absorbed and dissipated by the animal's tissues. You've probably seen this in slow motion videos of game being hit. You see the flexing, warping, etc. of the body. And often the struck animal runs off. Normal stuff. A bigger wallop doesn't matter. I've had many coyotes absorb a 7mm Rem. Mag., 300 Win. Mag. and run off 20 to 40 yards before expiring. I've had 80-pound warthogs take three 300-grain 45-70s slugs from inside 50 yards and continue running until blood pressure dropped. The whump just isn't what many of us imagine it should be.
@@RonSpomerOutdoors Thank you Ron! Your input as a man with much hunting experience is greatly appreciated. I especially loved in your video how you kept all the various recovered bullets from different hunts, what a great idea. Yes I agree, as I lifelong bowhunter myself - my goal when I am hunting with my bow is to get that arrow to pass completely through the animal. It increases the tissue damage done as well as the chance of recovery should the shot be less than perfect. Over the years I have adjusted what I use in terms of arrows and broadheads in order to maximize the chance of getting a pass through, and doing so when conditions are less than ideal (like hitting bone or the animal stepping or turning). Now with this in mind, this gives me a different perspective on how I should expect bullets to perform, in that what I want to achieve in either scenario is quick kills and recovered game. I have noticed with the Accubond bullets as well, only once did the deer almost drop immediately. The rest of the time the deer still did travel some distance. So all in all, not much different from how the Barnes bullets performed when I used them years ago. Another thing you mentioned was about bullet length and the rifling twist needed to stabilize the longer bullets. This got me thinking if this is perhaps what was causing the accuracy issues I experienced previously with my 7mm-08. Currently I am loading the 150 grain AB long range as the regular 140 grainers were impossible to find in my area for a while. The 150s do ok but don't group as tight as the 140s did - but I don't know if the 140 grain TSXs are the same length or longer than the 150 grain ABLRs. Now I am even more interested in trying out some of the 120 grain TTSXs to see how they will shoot! I will have to do some more digging and experimenting. But this is a part of why I love hunting and shooting so much, there is always more I can learn. Thank you again.
@@AbBowhunter You are thinking this through nicely, Aubrey. I find it curious that many rifle hunters think that broadheads and bullets kill differently, meaning that broadheads slice to create hemorrhaging, but bullets supposedly deliver some kind of knockout punch. But in this age of video we've all seen plenty of animals absorb 3,000 to 4,000 foot-pounds of bullet energy applied to the vital organs and run for several seconds before succumbing. Then, as blood pressure drops, so does the game. Bullets kill by hemorrhaging, too unless they strike the central nervous system from the withers forward. But the same thing happens when a broadhead hits the CNS. The confusion for many is this still unproven "hydrostatic," more accurately "hydrodynamic," effect in which a lung-shot animal flops over dead on the spot. Some insist this isn't shock, but another theory is that energy transfer via the blood circulatory system breaks vessels in the brain causing, in effect, a stroke. But this can happen as easily, if not more easily, with application of a frangible "varmint" style bullet at high velocity than a larger, heavier "dangerous game" bullet like a 400-grain at 2,200 to 2,400 fps. Many have their theories about "shock" kills, but I'm still looking for documented, scientific explanations for that phenomenon. In the meantime, I'll continue to depend on bullets that maximize hemorrhaging of vital tissues -- and blood trailing. Thanks for your observations, Aubrey.
One thing I would like to add. If anyone out there is considering using monolithic bullets on Medium thin skinned game, I suggest using a bullet with a plastic tip. For some reason, I have had to many "Pencil through" situations with non tipped Barnes TSX's. Save those bullets for the large game.
Cant believe i didnt know about your channel!! So glad i stumbled across ya! Amazing information and content! Thanks for sharing with us! Have a good one!
I was suggested to try some Barnes TTSX 150 grain bullets for my .300 WSM, when I asked a question on a forum about reloading for my new rifle. I know most people suggest to go light for caliber when using monolithic bullets. I have those bullets, but haven't reloaded with them yet since I know it is different than reloading regular lead core type bullets. I also thought about the Hammer bullets, not sure if you have heard of them. They are a custom bullet company, not one of the big name brands. I found that the 180 GMX from Hornady in their Outfitter line shot really well out of my Savage M110 Long Range Hunter, even though that is not light for caliber, but on the higher end (200 grain probably being the max like the ELD-Xs that I have for the .300 WSM, not the regular Win Mag). Thanks for your through overview of many bullet types and shapes there Sir.
Yeah I would not recommend the barnes tttsx bullets because I have had nothing but bad luck with them. I have loaded a 160 ttsx in a 340 wby mag for bear and after I shot a nice one it bled for 400 yards then crossed a river never to be found. Last year I shot a buck with a .257 wby mag at 325 quartering away and spent 3 hours looking until I stumbled upon it. I have had 4 times where this sort of thing happened where the bullet just doesn't expand and it ends up with almost no blood and the animal running a long ways before dying.
@@Nick-sx6jm I tried TTSX 150 gr in .30-06 this fall and very happy with the results on 3 large Wisconsin whitetail does . All pass throughs with no or short tracking. Hope to try in my 7mm-08, if I can find any.
Informative video. Something is going on with your sound track, it sounds like there's some Doppler Effect going on, like you're talking through a pipe.
For decades, my 'turn to' bullet manufacturer was SPEER. I've heard all the hype on Hornady, Nozzler, etc., but when copper-meets-paper, I've NEVER seen a well-loaded Speer bullet be outdone when it came to absolute precision. Now, that was before the drive for 'partitions' (which in reality, have a TERRIBLE time with precision at distance...you won't see 'partition' bullets advocated or supported for use on 1,000-yard ranges). Of course, as long as you have allocations provided for proper o-give sealing in the barrel, as mentioned in this video, all you really need are new loading charts which define 'performance at load'...basically just 'rework the tables for any reloading manual'...but there is often the rub...its a LOT EASIER to simply think 'zinc or antimony doesn't pollute like lead', than it is to put thousands of dollars into actually chronographing such 'new bullets' with accurate loading tables.
When I use a lead core bullet, I try to run it at moderate velocities. Example, look at the 30-30. At 100 yards with a cup and core lead bullet, you can expect a fantastic kill if placed just right. I have used these in 30-06. Results? DRT, IF, and I say IF, you are running them at moderate speeds. Lets break it down. in a 308, I will run a 165gr cup and core bullet at about 2650 to 2700 fps. Result? DRT deer / hogs. How about the 30-06? Same idea, but they run a bit faster, 2700-2800 fps with a 165gr. I have used a lot of 180gr bullets in the 30-06 lately. Why? These run 2600-2700 and really penetrate, break bone better, and results are DRT deer / hogs. Listen to Ron on the shotgun slugs. He knows what he is saying. I ALWAYS strive for close shots. Less to go wrong. Bullet choice for close shots? ALL. Why? Close deer are easier to kill, period. Hit the vitals. This particular video is so spot on I say, do it. Listen to Ron. He has killed a lot of animals. Also, practice shooting, so that you, as a hunter, are the best YOU can be. I am 60 and I practice a LOT. The Marine Corps taught me that.
I shot a deer yesterday with my 6.5 Creedmoor shooting handloaded Barnes 127 grain LRX bullets. The shot was 100 yards quartering away, and the bullet completely smashed through the ribs, obliterated the lungs, and exited the front of the neck. He ran about 20 yards before piling up. I was surprised at how little meat was bloodshot.
I have a question. I was recently reading the opinions of a guy from his personal hunting experience. He stated that the found that solid copper bullets would not expand in a slower cartridge like 308 or 30-06 at longer ranges. Around 400 yards. He also stated that he quit hunting with them a long time ago. Is this still a problem today or was it ever in your experience?
Tim, at some distance every bullet will have reached energy levels at which they will not expand on impact with certain substances. All-copper bullets can be built with hollow nose cavities of varying widths and depths which change expansion. Lead bullets are modified with varying degrees of jacket thickness, zinc percentages, skiving, pure or alloyed lead, hollow noses, etc. I've seen some copper bullets advertised to expand at 1,800 fps, some down to 1,600 fps, but of course at those speeds the petals open less than they typically do at higher impact speeds. A Barnes 165-gr. TTSX at 2,850 fps MV from a 30-06 will be flying about 1,900 fps at 500 yards. The 308 Win. starting 2,750 fps should keep this bullet at 1,900 fps at 450 yards. The challenge with all bullets is making them tough enough to withstand impacts at close range, yet still expand at long ranges.
So would you suggest a Nosler Ballistic Tip 150gr for South Texas Whitetail deer? I want to ensure that I get proper expansion to put a deer down effectively.
The line about these bullets being basically thrown rocks brought to mind the first minute video about the Japanese I-400 class submarines. Just me folks, you're all going to enjoy it ruclips.net/video/6rhauQxM6F8/видео.html
Mr.Spomer , thanks for a great educational video. With all the bullets on the market today I get confused as to what to use. I’m currently searching for a 25-06 bullet for deer and the occasional elk. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks again. John in Alberta
Hi Ron , thanks for all the great info . I use barnes ttsx out of my 30-06 and 270 and love them , recently purchased a 243 , i can only find 80 grain ttsx , do you think it will be ok for impala and warthogs here in south Africa?
Fabio, that 80-gr. TTSX should be dynamite on impala and warthogs. Penetrates as well as most if not all 100-gr. lead core bullets. My friend George and I use it a lot on whitetails.
Or if you're patient, just hold it across soft jaws in a vice and use a file. Finish it with emery cloth and then on a stone. Even when most of the material is milled off, that's how I finish them, mostly because my mill is a bit cheap and wobbly!
Glad I tried 100gr ttsx in my 25-06. Have not had a mule deer get away since we switched to them. Sample of almost a dozen so far. Won't ever go back to lead.
Ca hunters were forced to use copper bullets we found using a smaller grain bullet helped in expansion..That’s the biggest problem with copper rounds..lead core is still superior way bigger wound channel more expansion in long shots..
I come asking “why do we use lead for bullets” I leafy asking “what elements could we use inside ammunition that would reach negatively to iron inside blood for maximum efficiency”
In 35 Remington, I would try a 200 grain slugs from one of the lesser-known manufacturers, e.g., Core-Bon. It has been my experience that the bullets from Remington and others do not reach advertised velocities and lack expansion for that reason.
One of those might be a Woodleigh, but most are Trophy Bonded Bear Claws, Swift A-Frames. I once pulled a .416 Woodleigh 340-grain Protected Point from the offside hide of a small axis buck I'd shot with a 416 WSM wildcat. It was fairly mangled, but had retained much of its mass. To my knowledge, all bonded bullets use pure lead which is quite soft and easily mangled and eroded.
Shot a black bear with a cup and core bullet (165 grain 308). Core separated from jacket after taking out a rib and neither exited the animal. There was a few drops of blood near where I hit it and basically no blood trail to speak of. Luckily, I actually saw where the bear dropped so recovery was a breeze, but I believe the lack of an exit wound would have made recovery impossible had I made a more marginal hit. Just something to keep in mind when hunting tougher animals with conventional cup and core bullets.
Good point, Clinton. While bullets that break up and stay inside can be lethal, animals with lots of subcutaneous fat and/or hair might be best addressed with a controlled expansion bullet that maximizes penetration. A sizeable exit hole can provide good blood trailing.
I've shot a lot of plains game in Africa with 180g Barnes TTSX home loads and shot a buffalo this year with copper bullets in the PH's 375 Ruger so I'm a big fan. However I've had problems finding a bullet I can load for my ageing 7x57 Mauser. As it looks likely that the UK will go for mandating the use of lead free ammunition I'm very keen to find something I can kill deer effectively with. Any advice? Already tried Barnes and my rifle really doesn't like them.
isn't the most important thing still the rapid transfer of energy into the target material? theoretically wouldn't lead transfer about 20% more energy into the target material in the case of a no passthrough? Now I'm the first to admit that most rounds we use for hunting deer are over kill, a 3006 with 20% energy on target is still a kill for sure, and there is probably a passthrough on all but the beefiest buck. is a copper round still viable as we move down the power curve? i've used 762x39 on deer, and had a good hit at 50 yards, so it was a drop after about 30 yards. would all copper have enough energy for a passthrough? other hunters have said they didn't get a passthrough with that round, how mich in your experience does that even matter?
My concern with lead bullets is the possibility of consuming lead fragments. Especially if you are one who eats the heart or other internal organs. This is also why I shoot non-toxic shot out of my shotgun. I just prefer to not take the chance that I’m going to catch every last lead fragment/shot.
British shooter here. Been shooting for 22 years. Just wanted to say that i love your channel and the way you explain things. I'm humbled to say that ive already learnt ALOT from your channel. We as shooters and hunters must always be learning.
This guy really knows his trade not a fake he's got a lot of good information
"Always hunt honest and shoot straight." Words to live by.
I shot straight and missed, In turn, I got hit by a curved bullet. - That's life, you need to account for elevation and windage.
Absolutely excellent information. I loved that you x-sectioned and then had samples of actual bullets through game. Very well done.
I learned a LOT more about monolithic bullets in this one video than everything I've heard since they came out in the 80's.
I have to say that while my Go To projectile for my -06 has been a Sierra 180 grain BT GameKing, I just might have to look into trying those newfangled bullets now for both excellent accuracy as well as on-target terminal performance.
Thank you, Sir, for the video. Even if I didn't see it for about a year after you posted it.
God Bless.
Thank you H?
Left smarter than when I came in.
Every Ron Spomer video.
I left 16:25 older.
Same
Right
Always with RSO!
I designed a tubular bullet that allowed a high ballistic co-efficient . It had a good sectional density too which would "buck the wind". It also had vertical slits to allow it to mushroom upon impact. The fact that the weight of such a bullet is distributed at the periphery means that it is gyroscopically stable too. Strangely most cartridge manufacturers do not seem to realise that tubular bullets could give optimum external and good terminal ballistics making them flat shooting, wind bucking and good humane performers. Great video Ron!
Ill bite, how does it seal in the barrel? Or is it not a complete tube??
@@fruitfarmfords8243 There are three ways to make a tubular bullet seal. If the bullet is contained within a parallel case ,like a 45/70 then a simple rear base wad would suffice to drive the bullet out of the barrel. The bottleneck cased ammunition is more complicated. A rear sabot onto a reduced diameter base allows the bullet to be driven conventionally. The split sabot will blow clear after the spinning bullet exits the muzzle. My own solution includes an internal ball bearing that drives the tubular bullet along and is blown clear on exiting the barrel. In the 1970's the army tried a 50 calibre Browning tubular bullet which did 5000 fps and carried supersonically for greater ranges . I think it was too light on impact for military purposes. A tubular design allows great sectional density so slow loss of velocity, momentum and energy. It can also be driven faster because it is lighter in weight,
No other place to go to get in full perspective of field experience. Thank you, Ron. Brilliant!
All the informative discussion about monolithic bullets, ballistic coefficients and why the 6.5 Creedmore does what it does is a great opportunity to teach people who otherwise ignored or didn't know about these factors that make for a great rifle. Even though ancient cartridges like the 7X57 and 30-06 are great, what we shoot is getting a century-long update.
Every hunter should watch this video. Lots of good information. I didnt understand bullet construction until i watched this. Well done!
Thanks Lyndon.
The best practical, nuts~N~bolts video on bullets I've had the pleasure to watch.
Thank you
Another good bonus of bonded and copper projectiles is if you have to make a follow up Shot. Now I don’t condone shooting animals up the rear but if you put a poorly placed shot the first time, sometimes the only follow up shot you’ll get if from behind. With a bonded projectile you know for sure the projectile will punch far enough to hit vitals. With a cup and core you can’t be sure, it could penetrate 12 inches and not make any vitals
That was the "executive summary " of bullet design. A great video with a wealth of information clear and concise.
Thank you Warren.
This was helpful to me. I’ve hunted in the past. But always with others’ gear. Now I can make a more informed choice regarding what bullet to choose.
I really like the way you present this information. Great video, I’ll be watching more from your channel. Thank you
Great overview of alot of factors, thank you!
Ive had issues with picking lead fragments out of game meat in the kitchen so these copper bullets seem like a win. I like to see all the detail about performance. Made the switch over seem like a no brainer.
Thanks for the insight Ron.
Thanks for all your advice. It has been so nice to learn from experts like yourself, Jack O'Conner and Carmichael.
Thank you, Sam. You are welcome.
My Ruger American .270 shoots the Federal Power-Shok all copper really well. I was very impressed with them compared to the lead core that I’ve always used.
Possibly the most informative of all your videos! Great job! In 2017 I saw something that I would have sworn would never happen with a 165gr Barnes TSX from my 300 WSM. A friend shot a large 6x7 bull elk slightly quartering to, but almost broadside two times at 320 yards. The bull laid down briefly, but then got up and traveled approximately 150 yards before dropping for good. There was no blood where he initially laid down, nor along his trail that I was able to follow through disrupted pine needles on the forest floor. Both bullets impacted within three inches of each other, penetrating the back half of the on-side front shoulder and ranging through to just behind the off side shoulder. Both bullets failed to exit and were just under the skin on the off side, each beautifully mushroomed with all petals intact. Upon examination, we found a lot of hair packed inside the curl of each bullets petals. This particular bull elk had the longest winter coat of any elk that I've ever seen and my assumption was that the extremely long hair had initiated bullet expansion before entering the elk's body, which also could explain why there was no exit and absolutely zero blood, even around the entrance wounds. While that same bullet has performed wonderfully for me all other times, I think this case just shows that we should never assume anything and to be ready for follow-up shots, even when we are confident of bullet placement and the bullets 'normal' performance.
Yes. Trusting every bullet to perform perfectly every time is not wise. Always be ready to administer finishing shots, or, as many elk guides say, keep shooting until its dead! I've found that, in general, all animals remain conscious for several seconds after solid heart/lung shots. It isn't until blood pressure drops that they get dizzy and fall. And then, of course, it takes roughly 10 min. for brain cells to die from oxygen deprivation.
Got my first deer this year and i was able to recover the bullet. I used the cheap herters hunting ammo and the lead core separated from the jacket. Didnt seem to matter as it was a heart shot amd he dropped where he stood. (Probably helps that he was only 15 yards away)
Good for you.
Excellent, informative presentation.
"Glorified rock" hahaha! Love your choice of prose Ron!
Fantastic presentation ! Hats 🎩off to you Ron, and greetings from British Columbia the Serengeti of North America!
I learned a ton. Thank you 👍🏻
The 165 -169 grain bullet's of various construction loaded in the 308 cartridge can be load developed reasonably enough to allow swapping between them for jump shooting in tbe forest through too open spaces with longer distances and the ensuing lower velocity impact. Nosler Partition, Hornady ELD, or BT's, and even bear driving Swift can all perform within their limits using the 308 cartridge.
Bloody excellent video mate !
Great info and short enough to watch in a busy day. Thank you.
You did a good job explaining this in the video
👍🏻 I either shoot Barnes or Accubond. ♥️ both!!!
Great vid as always, but in this one, you really needed a lavalier mic!
This was quite interesting
Glorified rock, Love it. haha
Learnt a huge lot. Thank you so much
Excellent video and demonstration very informative!! Thank you for your effort
nice work
I have 130gr Barnes TTSX's that I reload for my .270. I find those to be extremely accurate! The twist rate of the barrel and the length of the bullet must be a good match!🇺🇸✝🇺🇸
Garrett For Christ. Good day Sir, hope you are well. I want to start loading the TTSX bullets in a few different rifles and one happens to be a 270Win. Do you recall how many thousandths of jump to the lands you found your best accuracy in the 270Win.? I know all rifles are different as to what they prefer, but cutting down on time and money while experimenting is part of my goal. Thank you in advance for any information and or advice you can lend a fellow hunter/shooter.
@@stevepuyear2738
I can tell you what I load for it, but I'm not recommending any loads. I use the 130 grain Barnes TTSX bullet and load it with 53 grains of Hybrid 100v. Your load might be slightly different for your barrel's twist rate. Again, I'm not recommending any loads. Consult your loading manual. I hope this helps.🇺🇸✝🇺🇸
@@garrettforchrist2700 Garrett thank you for the data. My son's name is also Garrett. I'm always cautious and drop 10% off any recommended loads after consulting manuals. I was curious mostly as to the burn speed range of powder you were finding to work well in your particular setup. Thanks again and good luck out there this season. Be safe as well!
Man I've got to say you're like a prophet of the shooting world.Thank you so much for sharing your wisdom, knowledge,and lifetime accumulation of experience with us.I always take so much away from your videos. When I was a teenager I used to love reading columns from Colonel Jeff Cooper and I must say after listening to your wisdom bombs time and time again I feel very much like I did back then reading his columns so thank you again and please keep up the excellent work!
Thank you Maineiacguy.
Great presentation from a very knowledgeable hunter.
Ron you are the best.
Great explanations and I learned about the partitioned bullets, thanks.
I like a through shot. Like a close shot from my bow. Lot of great info. I like the softer lead in muzzle loader bullets or in wad cutters. I have tried brass balls in the muzzle loader. I will be trying some copper bullets in the 308 150 grain. Great video.
Excellent! There is far too much chat about relative calibres and their effects and not about what bullet construction is best for different types of game depending up the nature of their hides, their size and whatever.
@Ron please do a review of 6.5 and 7mm hunting bullets and tell us what is likely best for roe deer, red deer, wild boar (proper ones, not feral pigs) etc
Love this channel, no b.s. and Ron doesn't have any dogmatic views, just evidence based understanding and experience.
This and Hicock are my favourite shooting channels for sure.
Thanks Richard. As for best bullets, that's complicated and variable depending on impact velocities and shot placement. As a general rule, any bullet designed to expand 1.5 to as much as 2X while retaining sufficient mass to maintain momentum increases penetration. Bullets that "explode" shortly after impact (varmint bullets) can kill quickly if that fragmentation happens within the heart/lungs. Massive hemorrhaging. Intact bullets are more likely to lace completely through and retain sufficient integrity and energy to break bones and hide on the far side, leaving a large exit wound for blood trailing. I've found Barnes TSX and TTSX quite effective for all species in conjunction with the right cartridge/velocity, but in general game struck with them and all other controlled expansion bullets that retain most mass and penetrate deeply or completely through stand, walk, or run for 3 to as many as 10 seconds on average before "running out of air," meaning blood pressure drops and they faint, then expire. You typically see this as a wild dash, then vering off course, wobbling, stumbling, falling, a bit of kicking, done.
@@RonSpomerOutdoors thanks Ron!
Happy hunting
Thanks Ron, a good breakdown of the different bullet types. Years ago a good friend of mine got me on to the Barnes TSX bullets. I am mainly hunting white-tailed deer, but I found from my 7mm-08 that the performance on whitetails seemed to vary a lot. At times the deer would immediately drop, but most often they would run afterwards a fair ways. I heard that the TSX bullets were better suited to larger framed game, and that they may not have been expanding fully on white-tails to sufficiently dump the energy. Is there any merit to this claim?
The main reason I switched away from them however was due to accuracy. I have not tried them again in that rifle for a long time, but I did load up some of the 100 grain TTSXs for my .257 Wby Mag, and they were the most accurate bullet I tested from that rifle. Right now I’m shooting Nosler Accubonds for everything, which I like. They are accurate and dependable. But I’m always game to try something different.
I’m a accubonds fan as well. Love the 110s in my 257
There is some merit to that claim, Aubrey, just as there is merit to some claims that (choose your bullet) sometimes "fails" because it didn't open or opened too much or... Notice the video clip of the Barnes bullet opening after passing through that apple, which is a bit smaller and lighter than a whitetail. But it has high water content. This created hydraulic pressure that forces open the hollow nose. Does this always happen on game? No. Perhaps some dirt or mud on the hide got in the nose cavity first. Perhaps the lungs were too insubstantial to initiate expansion. Perhaps... who knows. I have experienced it all with Barnes TSX, but the vast majority of times every Barnes bullet from the original X to TSX to TTSX have expanded well and terminated the target animal quickly. Some instantly, some after the usual short run (until blood pressure drops.) In the Dark Ages (1995) I fired 12 Barnes X bullets at 12 African animals sized from tiny steenbuck and duiker to kudu and eland. Each one expired. I did fire two more bullets as finishers on two as they lay expiring at our feet, but they were essentially done from the first hits. Now when I show up in Africa with Barnes the PHs (guides) say things like "Excellent. It's like a soft point and solid on one bullet." Can I guarantee every Barnes bullet will perform perfectly? NO. But I can't promise perfect performance from any bullet. Just too many variables with game. A big part of being a hunter is knowing how to track, and Barnes bullets generally punch through to leave a better blood trail for that.
Aubrey, in my answer I forgot to address your "dump the energy" question. Energy dump contributes little or nothing. Bow hunters know this. So do poachers who take deer with 22 rimfires. Energy beyond that required to expand the bullet (for more surface area to rip and tear vital tissue) and penetrate to/through maximum tissue (for increased hemorrhaging) is superfluous. The kinetic energy carried by the bullet is absorbed and dissipated by the animal's tissues. You've probably seen this in slow motion videos of game being hit. You see the flexing, warping, etc. of the body. And often the struck animal runs off. Normal stuff. A bigger wallop doesn't matter. I've had many coyotes absorb a 7mm Rem. Mag., 300 Win. Mag. and run off 20 to 40 yards before expiring. I've had 80-pound warthogs take three 300-grain 45-70s slugs from inside 50 yards and continue running until blood pressure dropped. The whump just isn't what many of us imagine it should be.
@@RonSpomerOutdoors Thank you Ron! Your input as a man with much hunting experience is greatly appreciated. I especially loved in your video how you kept all the various recovered bullets from different hunts, what a great idea. Yes I agree, as I lifelong bowhunter myself - my goal when I am hunting with my bow is to get that arrow to pass completely through the animal. It increases the tissue damage done as well as the chance of recovery should the shot be less than perfect. Over the years I have adjusted what I use in terms of arrows and broadheads in order to maximize the chance of getting a pass through, and doing so when conditions are less than ideal (like hitting bone or the animal stepping or turning). Now with this in mind, this gives me a different perspective on how I should expect bullets to perform, in that what I want to achieve in either scenario is quick kills and recovered game.
I have noticed with the Accubond bullets as well, only once did the deer almost drop immediately. The rest of the time the deer still did travel some distance. So all in all, not much different from how the Barnes bullets performed when I used them years ago.
Another thing you mentioned was about bullet length and the rifling twist needed to stabilize the longer bullets. This got me thinking if this is perhaps what was causing the accuracy issues I experienced previously with my 7mm-08. Currently I am loading the 150 grain AB long range as the regular 140 grainers were impossible to find in my area for a while. The 150s do ok but don't group as tight as the 140s did - but I don't know if the 140 grain TSXs are the same length or longer than the 150 grain ABLRs. Now I am even more interested in trying out some of the 120 grain TTSXs to see how they will shoot! I will have to do some more digging and experimenting. But this is a part of why I love hunting and shooting so much, there is always more I can learn. Thank you again.
@@AbBowhunter You are thinking this through nicely, Aubrey. I find it curious that many rifle hunters think that broadheads and bullets kill differently, meaning that broadheads slice to create hemorrhaging, but bullets supposedly deliver some kind of knockout punch. But in this age of video we've all seen plenty of animals absorb 3,000 to 4,000 foot-pounds of bullet energy applied to the vital organs and run for several seconds before succumbing. Then, as blood pressure drops, so does the game. Bullets kill by hemorrhaging, too unless they strike the central nervous system from the withers forward. But the same thing happens when a broadhead hits the CNS. The confusion for many is this still unproven "hydrostatic," more accurately "hydrodynamic," effect in which a lung-shot animal flops over dead on the spot. Some insist this isn't shock, but another theory is that energy transfer via the blood circulatory system breaks vessels in the brain causing, in effect, a stroke. But this can happen as easily, if not more easily, with application of a frangible "varmint" style bullet at high velocity than a larger, heavier "dangerous game" bullet like a 400-grain at 2,200 to 2,400 fps. Many have their theories about "shock" kills, but I'm still looking for documented, scientific explanations for that phenomenon. In the meantime, I'll continue to depend on bullets that maximize hemorrhaging of vital tissues -- and blood trailing. Thanks for your observations, Aubrey.
I'm excited to get my hands on the new EXC monolithics for the 9.3 , I imagine i'll be waiting quite a while.
Right on
Thank you.
Thanks, good video
One thing I would like to add. If anyone out there is considering using monolithic bullets on Medium thin skinned game, I suggest using a bullet with a plastic tip. For some reason, I have had to many "Pencil through" situations with non tipped Barnes TSX's. Save those bullets for the large game.
Cant believe i didnt know about your channel!! So glad i stumbled across ya! Amazing information and content! Thanks for sharing with us! Have a good one!
Thanks Roman. Happy to have you aboard.
I was suggested to try some Barnes TTSX 150 grain bullets for my .300 WSM, when I asked a question on a forum about reloading for my new rifle. I know most people suggest to go light for caliber when using monolithic bullets. I have those bullets, but haven't reloaded with them yet since I know it is different than reloading regular lead core type bullets. I also thought about the Hammer bullets, not sure if you have heard of them. They are a custom bullet company, not one of the big name brands.
I found that the 180 GMX from Hornady in their Outfitter line shot really well out of my Savage M110 Long Range Hunter, even though that is not light for caliber, but on the higher end (200 grain probably being the max like the ELD-Xs that I have for the .300 WSM, not the regular Win Mag). Thanks for your through overview of many bullet types and shapes there Sir.
Yeah I would not recommend the barnes tttsx bullets because I have had nothing but bad luck with them. I have loaded a 160 ttsx in a 340 wby mag for bear and after I shot a nice one it bled for 400 yards then crossed a river never to be found. Last year I shot a buck with a .257 wby mag at 325 quartering away and spent 3 hours looking until I stumbled upon it. I have had 4 times where this sort of thing happened where the bullet just doesn't expand and it ends up with almost no blood and the animal running a long ways before dying.
@@Nick-sx6jm I tried TTSX 150 gr in .30-06 this fall and very happy with the results on 3 large Wisconsin whitetail does . All pass throughs with no or short tracking. Hope to try in my 7mm-08, if I can find any.
Informative video. Something is going on with your sound track, it sounds like there's some Doppler Effect going on, like you're talking through a pipe.
That pronghorn got absolutely destroyed and made me forget Ron was talking
Thank you Ron! Very informative video!!!
I like the Noslor portion
Very educational, thank you!
Awesome sir thanks
For decades, my 'turn to' bullet manufacturer was SPEER. I've heard all the hype on Hornady, Nozzler, etc., but when copper-meets-paper, I've NEVER seen a well-loaded Speer bullet be outdone when it came to absolute precision. Now, that was before the drive for 'partitions' (which in reality, have a TERRIBLE time with precision at distance...you won't see 'partition' bullets advocated or supported for use on 1,000-yard ranges). Of course, as long as you have allocations provided for proper o-give sealing in the barrel, as mentioned in this video, all you really need are new loading charts which define 'performance at load'...basically just 'rework the tables for any reloading manual'...but there is often the rub...its a LOT EASIER to simply think 'zinc or antimony doesn't pollute like lead', than it is to put thousands of dollars into actually chronographing such 'new bullets' with accurate loading tables.
When I use a lead core bullet, I try to run it at moderate velocities. Example, look at the 30-30. At 100 yards with a cup and core lead bullet, you can expect a fantastic kill if placed just right. I have used these in 30-06. Results? DRT, IF, and I say IF, you are running them at moderate speeds.
Lets break it down. in a 308, I will run a 165gr cup and core bullet at about 2650 to 2700 fps. Result? DRT deer / hogs. How about the 30-06? Same idea, but they run a bit faster, 2700-2800 fps with a 165gr. I have used a lot of 180gr bullets in the 30-06 lately. Why? These run 2600-2700 and really penetrate, break bone better, and results are DRT deer / hogs.
Listen to Ron on the shotgun slugs. He knows what he is saying.
I ALWAYS strive for close shots. Less to go wrong. Bullet choice for close shots? ALL. Why? Close deer are easier to kill, period. Hit the vitals. This particular video is so spot on I say, do it. Listen to Ron. He has killed a lot of animals. Also, practice shooting, so that you, as a hunter, are the best YOU can be. I am 60 and I practice a LOT. The Marine Corps taught me that.
I shot a deer yesterday with my 6.5 Creedmoor shooting handloaded Barnes 127 grain LRX bullets. The shot was 100 yards quartering away, and the bullet completely smashed through the ribs, obliterated the lungs, and exited the front of the neck. He ran about 20 yards before piling up. I was surprised at how little meat was bloodshot.
Kyle Reynolds lol wait til you realize thats from velocity. 45/70 with hot loads never causes bloodshot meat
Thank you
Thanks
I have a question. I was recently reading the opinions of a guy from his personal hunting experience. He stated that the found that solid copper bullets would not expand in a slower cartridge like 308 or 30-06 at longer ranges. Around 400 yards. He also stated that he quit hunting with them a long time ago. Is this still a problem today or was it ever in your experience?
Tim, at some distance every bullet will have reached energy levels at which they will not expand on impact with certain substances. All-copper bullets can be built with hollow nose cavities of varying widths and depths which change expansion. Lead bullets are modified with varying degrees of jacket thickness, zinc percentages, skiving, pure or alloyed lead, hollow noses, etc. I've seen some copper bullets advertised to expand at 1,800 fps, some down to 1,600 fps, but of course at those speeds the petals open less than they typically do at higher impact speeds. A Barnes 165-gr. TTSX at 2,850 fps MV from a 30-06 will be flying about 1,900 fps at 500 yards. The 308 Win. starting 2,750 fps should keep this bullet at 1,900 fps at 450 yards. The challenge with all bullets is making them tough enough to withstand impacts at close range, yet still expand at long ranges.
@@RonSpomerOutdoors thank you for the insight!
So would you suggest a Nosler Ballistic Tip 150gr for South Texas Whitetail deer? I want to ensure that I get proper expansion to put a deer down effectively.
Thanks for that good Information!
Nice job Ron👍 Great 👍 information, thank you!
Cartridge Case - Primer - Propellant - Projectile/bullet - Round
Ron lead projectiles are monolithic as well
Very good my friend, I stick with my bonded rounds, my 06 and my 300wsm thanks very good video.. good hunting
Good hunting to you, too!
So what do you choose if you have all the options?
A lot of great information
Glad you liked it
The line about these bullets being basically thrown rocks brought to mind the first minute video about the Japanese I-400 class submarines.
Just me folks, you're all going to enjoy it
ruclips.net/video/6rhauQxM6F8/видео.html
Very informative video. Do you tend to hunt more with lead or copper? Ty
Now I want to see the process of how they make different bullets
Mr.Spomer , thanks for a great educational video. With all the bullets on the market today I get confused as to what to use. I’m currently searching for a 25-06 bullet for deer and the occasional elk. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks again. John in Alberta
Hi Ron , thanks for all the great info . I use barnes ttsx out of my 30-06 and 270 and love them , recently purchased a 243 , i can only find 80 grain ttsx , do you think it will be ok for impala and warthogs here in south Africa?
Fabio, that 80-gr. TTSX should be dynamite on impala and warthogs. Penetrates as well as most if not all 100-gr. lead core bullets. My friend George and I use it a lot on whitetails.
How do you think the Hornady CX would be
Great video!
Спасибо, познавательно.
I now know what the difference in bullets are. wow. thanks
Best information so faaar.
Is it better to load the 243 with a flat base bullet versus a boat tail
Nope.
10/10 would do again
Ron, how did you section those bullets? I’d like to section a few myself to compare jacket thickness. Thanks for the video.
Machine shop mill.
Or if you're patient, just hold it across soft jaws in a vice and use a file. Finish it with emery cloth and then on a stone. Even when most of the material is milled off, that's how I finish them, mostly because my mill is a bit cheap and wobbly!
Show us a picture of your Stone Ram!
Glad I tried 100gr ttsx in my 25-06. Have not had a mule deer get away since we switched to them. Sample of almost a dozen so far. Won't ever go back to lead.
Ca hunters were forced to use copper bullets we found using a smaller grain bullet helped in expansion..That’s the biggest problem with copper rounds..lead core is still superior way bigger wound channel more expansion in long shots..
Nothing but good knowledge in this video.
I come asking “why do we use lead for bullets” I leafy asking “what elements could we use inside ammunition that would reach negatively to iron inside blood for maximum efficiency”
Over here driven hunts are the thing, stopping en fast are the thing.
What would you suggest for thicket hunting with a 30-30 or 35 caliber?
In 35 Remington, I would try a 200 grain slugs from one of the lesser-known manufacturers, e.g., Core-Bon. It has been my experience that the bullets from Remington and others do not reach advertised velocities and lack expansion for that reason.
Dear Ron in good calibre and bullet weight
Cap and core bullets kills faster
And don't be afraid of lead shrapnels
We use leads in aquariums🤣
Good one Ron, Is that a Woodleigh of Australia i see here @7:56
One of those might be a Woodleigh, but most are Trophy Bonded Bear Claws, Swift A-Frames. I once pulled a .416 Woodleigh 340-grain Protected Point from the offside hide of a small axis buck I'd shot with a 416 WSM wildcat. It was fairly mangled, but had retained much of its mass. To my knowledge, all bonded bullets use pure lead which is quite soft and easily mangled and eroded.
@@RonSpomerOutdoors Wooleighs are Simply, Awesome. Thanks fella. Keep it up. love the Content.
... I've got to get the laser eye correction surgery and chuck my glasses in the garbage pail too
Shot a black bear with a cup and core bullet (165 grain 308). Core separated from jacket after taking out a rib and neither exited the animal. There was a few drops of blood near where I hit it and basically no blood trail to speak of. Luckily, I actually saw where the bear dropped so recovery was a breeze, but I believe the lack of an exit wound would have made recovery impossible had I made a more marginal hit. Just something to keep in mind when hunting tougher animals with conventional cup and core bullets.
Good point, Clinton. While bullets that break up and stay inside can be lethal, animals with lots of subcutaneous fat and/or hair might be best addressed with a controlled expansion bullet that maximizes penetration. A sizeable exit hole can provide good blood trailing.
I've shot a lot of plains game in Africa with 180g Barnes TTSX home loads and shot a buffalo this year with copper bullets in the PH's 375 Ruger so I'm a big fan. However I've had problems finding a bullet I can load for my ageing 7x57 Mauser. As it looks likely that the UK will go for mandating the use of lead free ammunition I'm very keen to find something I can kill deer effectively with. Any advice? Already tried Barnes and my rifle really doesn't like them.
Check out Cutting Edge bullets, all copper at bore size with a driving band. Minimal bore contact/stripping.
isn't the most important thing still the rapid transfer of energy into the target material? theoretically wouldn't lead transfer about 20% more energy into the target material in the case of a no passthrough? Now I'm the first to admit that most rounds we use for hunting deer are over kill, a 3006 with 20% energy on target is still a kill for sure, and there is probably a passthrough on all but the beefiest buck. is a copper round still viable as we move down the power curve? i've used 762x39 on deer, and had a good hit at 50 yards, so it was a drop after about 30 yards. would all copper have enough energy for a passthrough? other hunters have said they didn't get a passthrough with that round, how mich in your experience does that even matter?
nvm. should have waited till the end.
My concern with lead bullets is the possibility of consuming lead fragments. Especially if you are one who eats the heart or other internal organs. This is also why I shoot non-toxic shot out of my shotgun. I just prefer to not take the chance that I’m going to catch every last lead fragment/shot.
When was the last time you heard of this happening? Never because its not a issue
Copper is about 4 times more expensive than lead. Wait for the price rise of 400%………
Will a 180grain copper mono pass through and exit a bull elk with 1500 foot pounds of energy at impact?
Depends on where you hit it, but I'd put my money on a pass through broadside.