Some things that should be considered because there are specific frames that do benefit a lot from subsumes, and I feel it isn't really fair to rank subsumes off general use because a lot of them excel with built loadouts that utilize it the most. I think looking at it from this perspective will open up the subsume possibilities even more. I get it, meta is meta but Subsumes really allow us to explore under used and under valued kits. You don't have to run whats really popular or good, oftentimes using the lower rank stuff might be as good if not even better, or just more fun to play with. So for those who are looking for some interesting use cases, allow me to present some options: Coil Horizon is fantastic with Oberon Replace his smite with it, armor strip with 2 + 4 then coil horizon Quiver with the POWER OF THREE Augment over Xaku's 1 is an actual AFK DPS setup, very potent for steel path Limbo's Banish on Loki's Decoy is at the moment the strongest and highest enemy aggression in the game, since Decoy has a very high base duration this means you can keep a banished decoy up to 70 seconds or so before Molt efficiency, with Loki's hyper utility kit this is actually a saving grace (Using Irradiating Disarm to completely break 99% of enemies) Using Ice Wave Impedance this opens up for some small range molecular prime builds to further maximize the slow on a small slow nova without having to use silence, Impedance is also great against infested since the slow is a wide cone radius (This one is still somewhat Niche but its a lot more fun than you'd realize) Cold Ward has a VERY high damage multiplier, that alone makes it very valuable (with new cold changes.. pretty self explanatory) but in other cases like Hildryn with Electric Ward this gives her higher max energy, and you can use Toxin Ward to activate Primary Blight. (IIRC they might have finally fixed blight but I'm not 100% sure) Toxin Ward also gives reload speed bonus so this makes using slower reload weapons like the Ogris, Zarr or Tigris really fast. and Heat Ward is more max health, always nice to use this on Nekros for more health. Tempest Barrage pierces nullifier bubbles, its not much but that alone makes CC Corpus setups a lot more manageable. Especially with Vauban who can pierce nulifiers to then vortex everything in. Mind Control contrary to popular belief actually allows Revenant to make EXCELLENT use of his Thrall Pact augment, mind controlling a thrall then spreads the thrall status extremely quickly thus building up your thrall pact damage. Molt actually allows Wukong to gain a RAPID BURST of movement under Cloud Walk, pairing this with Dispatch Overdrive and Wukong will walk to the exit within a matter of seconds, this also proves useful when using Wuklone to prime enemies via Tenet Cycron while your walking around meleeing under cloud walk. Spellbind is Primed Sure Footed. Well Of Life opens up for an EASY Health Conversion build using its augment Pool of Life, the extra armor is very useful at times and isn't bad with Nekros. (Just one example) Defy actually scales with enemies, this means at level cap simply priming / launching a few primed shots into enemies then defying will let you kill them since the damage is high enough and is enough to kill on reflect, but more importantly Defy + Rhino gives him more armor and another damage gate instance (First is Iron Skin, then Shield Gate, and now defy!) The reason Condemn is so popular is because its shield siphon is easy to proc, Pillage is great don't get me wrong but once the enemies armor is gone, you cannot siphon shields anymore, the only way to bypass this is to use Blazing Pillage which is exclusive to Hildryn, Blazing allows you to siphon shields even when armor is 0 on the units. Condemn doesn't have this limitation, and it makes headshot builds easy and in specific, Knell, a neat setup I found useful was to run Condemn on Nova, Prime enemies and lock them in place for headshot on knell but there are a bunch of use cases here too, and its also a one hand cast unlike pillage, so your momentum isn't halted. Excalibur and Banshee are interchangeable. Stacking Savage Silence + Radiant Finish giving you massive finisher damage. While the parazon mod to auto hack is nice its not always guarantee and for speedrunning archon hacks Perspicacity is still the way to go, there isn't anything wrong with this one use case to be honest so for those struggling, run this with Wukong! Firewalker is still active under the cloud walk, you can spread the CC even more thus making the Melee roam build even more effective since now not only are you stunning enemies exiting the cloud walk but you are then stunning them again via firewalker. Pair this with ENVELOPING CLOUD augment and your wuklone is actually invisible so now you have lots of CC and an invis monkey to prime infinitely! Dessication opens up Arcane Trickery on every single warframe, arcane trickery isn't popular anymore but turning every frame invis is honestly... kinda nice. Lull gives ASH if you put it on him, Endless Lullaby! Great synergy from that alone. Theres plenty more options, just give the other helminth abilities a deeper look and you'll find a ton of interesting mechanics and synergies.
u should make some vids with warframe tech and other cool builds for warframes with weird subsumes, would be very fun (basically more of ur off meta perspective vid)
@@ewy4010 Because with Power of Three you get to cover and create a larger cloak area on one cast, the setup is an invis DPS one, where after you gazed a target and snagged guns with Lohk, you hide in quiver.
As a Limbo Main it saddens me to say this but Banish is useless unless it’s on Limbo. His 1-3 combo is stupid op when used on Grineer and Infested and without it it’s pretty awful. Great vid and glad to hang out 👌
If for whatever reason you need to grind defection, put it on wisp with the healing banish augment. Let them get mote buffs for speed and then banish, they sprint to the finish.
I use it in arbi on Gara to keep the target from ever dying. Carried 2 players in a 2-hour mission, legit had those 2, and the target perma banished so they could get loot.
Can't forget that petrified enemies also gain +50% elemental damage effectiveness up to 100% (so like, if enemies take +50% heat damage and -75% impact, when petrified they'd take +100% heat and -25% impact) making it also a soft dps tool. The things it does might not be too impressive individually, but when considered as a single ability, it's actually pretty good. I vote B tier for petrify
What’s really fun is put warcry on Gauss max duration build (as his 4 attack speed increase scales with duration not strength) and use galantine prime with berserker fury and get a wisp to provide you a haste mote, and use various melee attack speed arcanes. You melee so fast you can’t even see the animations but your melee has a range of like 4 meters and you are basically a furious ball of death
Okay I've watched 37:59 of this video. My question is. How are you going to do a Helminth Subsume Tier list when a.) You don't know which ability you're able to subsume, and it would've benefited more if your Video location was the actual Helminth, because you can see every available ability. Rather than the Arsenal. b.)You're missing a bunch of Augments, the Augments explanation from the Arsenal. So if the Ability is able to be band aide fixed. Relying on this video you wouldn't know it. Beyond those key aspects pretty decent Video for the ones you do have , you're hella informative for the ones that have an Augments. I'd give it a B- Tier because key essential aspects are missing, like remembering which ones are subsumable, and their augments.
But he knows what the abilities do, that's the important part. He might not know off the bat which ability is subsumed but once he remembers or looks it up, he knows what the abilities do already.
@@TheBigWetWilliereading a description of an ability and using it on star chart are two different things. Buddy said several times he doesn’t have experience with certain abilities. Lol he lost me when he asked chat for help on smite one of the OG S tier abilities.
@@joec200012 thats exactly how I felt watching this. Multiple times he mentioned he basically doesn't know what an ability does or how effective it actually is. I'm not expecting that level of knowledge from your average player, but if you're setting out to do a tier list which a lot of players will subsequently base their understanding of the Helminth abilities on, I definitely feel like knowing how each of the abilities functions with and without their augments, is a basic prerequisite.
garuda's blood altar has 2 amazing subsume uses. 1- inaros. because its based on both missing health and its % it means this is the only real healing ability that he can use. 2- Nekros. again, its the only real healing that can be used with the shadows. because they have enemy health, it means other ablities just dont heal them enough to sustain them, but pop a blood altar, and you will have constant healing for them. its amazing for a shield of shadows build.
I like gloom for its cc, but yeh its true for 2nd, I love Nekros and gloom won't heal defense objectives as vid mentioned anyways (the team I was with over at archon hunt defense appreciated it at least!)
@@JaneValentine007 yeah, i wanted gloom to work so bad for nekros shadows, but nah. it doesnt compare to blood altar. which sucks because i put gloom on top of blood altar and i will have to reattach blood altar again.
Fire Walker is insanely underrated. It does so much for so little. I run it on both my Nova builds. Sprint speed is nice but the least of its benefits. Spreading heat procs that CC and deal a decent amount of dmg over time, status cleansing (primed sure footed who?) Just stand in the fire. With high duration, it lasts for 91 seconds (that's a minute and a half). It's not for every frame, but when it works, it's so good. It's a highly undervalued helminth for everything it brings for one cheap cast. (Btw I have over 3k hours, play almost exclusively on Steel Path, and I main Nova. So I have a ton of experience.)
Resonator is the best CC in the game as long as you aren't speedrunning a map, and even then its good. On any frame that has great DPS tools but lacks survivability (Banshee, I'm looking at you) there really isn't a better choice. Infested Mobility - If you think about it, there are a LOT of times you just want to "point A to point B", and this is amazing for that. Perspicacity - Spy missions. Throw on Wukong (the only good use for that frame), and you bypass lasers and hacking effortlessly.
Resonator is great but I find Molt to be better than Infested Mobility. Perspicacity is useless, ciphers exist and for Wukong himself quite literally just use Molt to make his Cloudwalker faster and speed run better.
@@kyaii Molt is nice if you like the additional benefits, but IM is ideal if all you want to do is get to the other side of the room in 0.1 seconds. Ciphers can't always be used (sorties, for instance).
Some interesting things to note for some of these: Frost's Ice Wave: the augment actually works on Eximus units. Still not worth using as a Helminth ability, but on Frost himself it's quite nice and he now has the mod space thanks to Overguard mechanics. It allows Frost to crowd control multiple areas at the same time. Molt: actually has a speedrunning niche on Wukong. It's the only Helminth that can multiply the speed of Cloudwalker and damn! Does he go fast with Molt and high power strength O.O My go-to build for fast Capture/Spy runs. Gloom: we all know how good it is, especially when paired with Silence for those long stuns, but it also has another combo that I never see anyone use: Arcane Eruption. Cheap arcane to get/easy to farm and knocks down everything in a 30 METERS RADIUS! Add Gloom to that and it's just dumb how much passive crowd control this combo has. Love this on Nekros especially (it works on any frame, but those who can spawn energy orbs at an increased rate amplify this combo massively) for just some easy and chill Steel Path farming.
Gyre's grouping is 50% more range than others though. Both Airburst and Larva get 8m base on other frames, while Coil Horizon gets the full 12m. It's good!
I feel like making Eclipse a toggle gets rid of its personality. Seeking out pockets of light/darkness _could_ be an interesting gameplay loop. The problem is that the buff is constantly changing as you move around -- in this _movement shooter._ I'd fix Eclipse by making it _snapshot_ the buff you get when you cast it. Maybe you can hold the button to 'detect' whether you're in light or darkness, and then release the button to confirm your buff. Then you can move around freely, holding onto the buff you found.
Adding onto your idea, what if Eclipse worked like Wisp's motes? If you leave the light, the buff stays for a certain duration. This way you do keep the 'personality' of both buffs by Eclipse.
you get easy 75% damage resist and free tickles now lol. its one of the few things that make Banshee not only usable, but probably one of the best frames despite being like in the top 5 least played frames statistically stacking sonar to have consistent millions of damage so strong you can overflow the integer limit, one of the best armor strips since the cone is huge and only takes 143% strength for a full armor strip, and silence is just an easy W built into her kit ... literally the only thing that was ever bad on her was that she was paper thin (eclipse damage resistance works on shields too)
you might think her armor strip is bad despite having great range and barely requiring strength because its pushes things a bit ..... until you realize it works on things like acolytes, necramechs, demolisher units ... necramech demolisher units ...
Small disclaimer about Eclipse: the damage buff/reduction becomes consistent if your Warframe is invisible So if you were to, say, use Ivara's Prowl to boost headshot damage while invisible, or keep bunny hopping or bullet jumping to trigger Exodia Contagion while happening to use Wisp...
I have a hard time subsuming any grouping ability when Magus anomaly is in the game. It’s literally about 75% as good as any grouping ability, costs 0 energy, and you still get a helminth to use on a damage buff or armor strip.
It's kind of hard to create a list ranking when multiple thing you haven't not just experimented with but not tried on other frames at all. I would love to see this done again with the proper time taken to do a real deep testing. Maybe in 2024.
You asked what you might ever wanna subsume Baruuk’s lull for and I can give you a specific niche! It’s an amazing helminth (especially with the augment) for cracking open stealth finisher rivens! If you’re playing a frame with a bad energy economy and isn’t have the mythical arcane energize, it’s nice. I’m sure there are more efficient ways, but it’s a fun option.
I watched one minute and I can tell you this is a video I needed. I'm a returning veteran player. I stopped playing before the Helminth abilities came out. Thank you!
Actually Banish, Is pretty Tasty. If you put it on a DPS Frame like Protea especially since her guns just got a boob job. Warframe abilities can hit banished enemies, For example trade out Radial Blind for Banish and Excalibur becomes totally untouchable. Garuda's Claws works on banished targets as well. I haven't ran it on every single frame yet, but Banish is kinda Tasty from what I've seen so far. On Vauban and THE SQUAD!!!! (see Triburos video for reference Funny shit). Finally and this is a big point here and I know it's 100% Niche, but it's a huge headache relief. Sortie and Archon living Defense Targets, that think they can face tank, and end up Face Fucked. "No body puts baby in a corner"... I do, I will, and I did. Banish his ass to Canada's coldest Ice cap and then it's all Cake Pie and Ice-cream. I'm not sure If Nekros Shadow slaves can or Nyx Mind Controlled do-boy. Any frame with exhalated weapons works. I like the Bile Green and Pepto Nidus, 🤢🤮Sick
Blood alter is also decent on nekros for a despoil build, also heals your shadows Null star with archon vitality and a decent setup is a great alternative for fast Warframe leveling in sanctuary onslaught
I would say petrify as a loot ability is awesome when combined with a Prisma Gorgon with Metamorphic Magazine. It doesn't require energy since it's the gun doing the petrifying. But the loot effect still works and scales with strength. It's sort of niche but it's definitely a use case. I run it on Nezha for certain farms because that is already a frame where I go for max possible strength.
Just an idea, I don't know how good it'd be in practice, but Caliban's Sentient Wrath, might not be all that bad if used properly. As a CC, that 16 target count isn't that great. But, what if those targets could become bombs? The Saxum mod set does this, and with all three mods lifted enemies will explode for 30% their max health. Granted, this explosion is kinda small at 4 meters, but if you have a tightly packed corridor, or you've gone long enough in a mission and there's a bunch of monsters crawling around, then, this could do well. You get a bit of hard CC, some damage vulnerability, and possibly some infinite scaling damage as well, because that damage is 30% of a monster's max health. If you get something really tanky, that could be a big boom.
I know this is going to sound stupid, but I got around to testing Ice Wave because of this video and it's actually pretty good. The base ability alone gives a wide slow effect that works on CC inmune enemies like Eximus, Acolytes and Demolysts, but it's with the augment where things get crazy. Because the slow from the cold procs stacks with the one you get from the augment, so on initial cast you make enemies so slow it's almost like they're in stasis. And that's without mentioning the small boost in critical damage from cold or the relatively quick casting speed that makes it useful for shield gating I've been using it on my Nyx and loving it so far
I know its pretty niche, but well of life can be used as a mini nuke in circuit with the bombastines malice decree. Its a really easy way to kind of afk in exterm, defense and survival. Not the craziest thing ever but its pretty cool. Can do the same with xaku's gazed enemy
Vial Rush on Mag is actually not bad since she can strip armor to begin with and all the vials will get sucked to the center of the bubble for some insane dps. Course you could just fire like 1 Nataruk shot into the bubble and it blows up everything anyway, but it's something you can do. if you wanna. Also Golden Instinct is not invalidated by Orokin Eye because its range can be increased to like 400m which usually covers the entire map if you're not on Lua or Albrecht's Lab. You use Golden Instinct to see if it triggers at all, then you go further in and use it again to try to pinpoint the location better and once you think you've narrowed it down enough THEN you use Orokin Eye to skip the rest of the guessing. Golden Instinct has a 15 sec cooldown. Orokin Eye is 5 minutes. You use them together or not at all. Perspicacity you run on Ivara or Wukong over their respective 4's because the base frame is plenty good enough for sorties and having the instant hack makes it so you can do the spy missions without brainless randos giving you an aneurysm by walking into the most obvious alarm in the known universe and failing the mission for you.
Inaros pocket sand has 1, extremely niche use case and it's in the circuit. Circuit LOVES to give you "On finisher, do X" or "On finisher, buff Y" and pocket sand is by far the easiest and cheapest way to make use of those cards. Throw it on one of the cheap stealth frames, I used Loki because he really doesn't lose much for getting a finisher opener and has perma stealth, check the melee weapons being offered and if you're able to, mod them for finisher damage before going into circuit and just execute enemies until you hit a defense mission and leave. It is EXTREMELY cheesy, but my god if you roll a dagger and have covert lethality it becomes a total meme run, it's so silly.
Ones like Citrine could be adjusted over time depend on what happens when they start to get augments for their abilities. Otherwise very handy for someone still in the early days of using the Helminth system like me.
I'd say Gloom is S on Protea because her passive makes getting the required power strength trivial, and she can easily sustain the cost with dispensary
7000 hours here. Wukong with perspicacity for 4th is my most used frame. Throw on a run speed mod or two. Spy, rescue, sortie, relic cracks. Through lasers and sensors with cloudwalk. Easy peasy.
I've never lost confidence in a youtuber's knowledge on a game faster than "Gloom... I don't know if it's S tier". Freezing everyone, instant and constant full heals, no energy drain when not doing anything and allows passive regen, instantly heals off of passive damage. No, you don't need to max strength for max slow for it to be good.
"Look at Tentacle Swarm. This is like the trolliest ability in the game" You just hurt Limbo mains on a new deep level. You took from them the one thing they had, the one thing nobody could argue they weren't the best in
26:13 So I am going to have a hot take here, but I do not agree with you, AT ALL. Nourish does not need to be nerfed, at all, or buffed. It is actually perfectly balanced and needs to be left alone. Your argument that it solves "EVERY Warframe's energy economy" is an easily nullified point because Synth set+ Panzer Vulpaphyla exists while you have Equilibrium. If you have energy issues beyond that, it's an issue with your build, plain and simple. As for adding Viral Damage to your weapons... It also opens up the ability to have even more build variety with your weapons and allows you to create other combo's instead of forcing your weapons to be built of Viral+Hunter Moo-moo and the added damage is not that high. And also, again, Synth set+ Panzer Vulpaphyla exists and can spread more viral procs. And to your point of the Aoe Viral Proc... 1 stack of Viral on a 2 second cooldown isn't that good especially if you are moving around and crowd controlling enemies or nuking them with Aoe weapons. And AGAIN, Panzer Vulpa combo + It doesn't require you to be hit to spread Viral. Literally everything your saying, the Panzer Vulpa with Synth set+Swipe, and Equilibrium on your frame, can do what Nourish does, and in some ways, do it better. The only two differences are no Viral Damage on Weapons and no Viral Aoe explosion when you are hit. You can instead cause the spores to explode and spread onto enemies. So people didn't "loose there shit". They just don't agree with you. Like I don't.
Quite literally ignoring that what nourish does is require you to not have to do any of the things you mentioned in favor of combining it with other stronger stuff.. I honestly don't feel like responding to all of your points though so whatever
@@kyaii "I honestly don't feel like responding to all of your points though so whatever": See if you didn't have this line in your response, I would have seen this as more of a peaceful discussion. But now you are just plain arrogant. Especially considering that what I so called "ignored", I didn't actually ignore at all, because of three reasons: 1: Nourish takes freedom of ability choices away if you solely rely on it and costs energy to utilize, which can be put towards better things, like Silence from Banshee, or Pillage from Hildryn, and many other options. 2: People use the Panzer Vulpa combo anyway, making your point of "what nourish does is require you to not have to do any of the things you mentioned in favor of combining it with other stronger stuff.." completely redundant because people already utilize the Panzer Vulpa to do what Nourish does, fix the energy economy issue and spread viral. Minus the two differences I mentioned in my previous comment. And 3: It forces you to build around it to some degree, and compromise the rest of your kit to be effective. It's not just a simple "throw this in as a supplement and I'm good." ability. So I don't care what you "feel" like responding to. Simple matter is that you are very wrong about it needing to be nerfed and I took the time to prove why you are wrong. But I can tell just by your attitude, this will go no where with you. Enjoy the rest of your day.
@@ThomasForlinpanzer vulp does not spread viral faster Viral corrosive is cracked Removes needing to use 3 specific mods to get energy gain Massive cc on activation Viral applies on a lot of abilities like Garuda 4 You don't need to get hit. Just use combat discipline Opens you up to having smeeta kavat for more drops Amps all energy gains like styanax 3, zenuirk, e orbs etc as opposed to only picking up orbs You're failing to see how spreading the best status effect in the game in a large radius is already really good. That's before we even talk about the cc and energy generation. You're acting like he's being rude but you're not even making good points lmao. He's choosing to not discuss it with you because you're going to write a massively over worded paragraph just to my comment and act high and mighty while doing it. Maybe try some introspection before judging others personality
@@RapTapTap69 1) "Panzer Vulp does not spread viral faster": 1 stack every 2 seconds per enemy vs 3-6 per enemy without an internal GCD and less micromanagement=faster and better. 2) "viral corrosive is cracked": Yep. But I am not gonna change status proc priorities for it or use an ability for it, when the pet is better, see point 1. 3) "Removes needing to use 3 specific mods to get energy gain": It removes it, sure, but your kit also needs to accommodate for it, so changing your modding for your frame, which is more than 3 mods. Panzer is cheaper by default. 4) "Massive cc on activation": Silence, Fire Blast, Condemn, Thermal Sunder and many others do CC and more. 5) "Viral applies on a lot of abilities like Garuda 4": A good synergy, but that's all. Garuda can benefit from many other abilities and does not need Nourish. 6) "You don't need to get hit. Just use combat discipline": See point 3. 7) "Opens you up to having smeeta kavat for more drops": So a reliance on an RNG effect in place of something that does Nourish's job better, without a heavy modding cost? No thanks. Also, Smeeta dies if not managed, panzer gets resurrected and does things while "dead". 8) "Amps all energy gains like styanax 3, zenuirk, e orbs etc as opposed to only picking up orbs": No need for the amplification on any build unless you build exclusively for a combo that requires it. So see point 3. 9) "You're failing to see how spreading the best status effect in the game in a large radius is already really good." Wrong, see point 1.
10) "That's before we even talk about the cc and energy generation.": Refer to points 3 and 4.
11) "You're acting like he's being rude but you're not even making good points lmao.": " "I honestly don't feel like responding to all of your points though so whatever" is rude and arrogant to say when someone has taken the time to address your points individually. 12) "He's choosing to not discuss it with you because you're going to write a massively over worded paragraph just to my comment and act high and mighty, while doing it.": Every response I have made to you is a sentence or slightly longer, only reason this is long is cause I am quoting your points. I'm not acting high and mighty and using long paragraphs to dominate and win. They were long because each point deserves a valid, descriptive response. 13) "Maybe try some introspection before judging others personality." See point 12 and take your own advice.
@@ThomasForlin 1. Panzer vulp targets 3 enemies every 5 seconds.... oh yeah that's definitely better than everything in 12 meters every 2 seconds. 2. It's a separate damage instance. Doesn't affect your damage weighting on weapons. I don't think you realize it gives 75% (scaling) viral weapon damage 3. Nourish frees up a Warframe slot and your companion slot. I fail to see how having a specific build on a specific companion and a mod slot on your Warframe is better than using your helminth when nearly every frame has one ability that's a throwaway 4. Silence doesn't spread viral, thermal sunder doesn't apply every 2 seconds, you didn't really put fire blast here lmao 5. Synergy is synergy. It's not an edge case as many abilities apply the extra toxin damage and every damage ability is benefitted by massive aoe toxin procs 6. One aura is far more convenient than specific build on specific companion and a Warframe slot. See point 3 7. nourish applies to your companion so every time they're attacked they proc nourish waves. Link mods make the smeeta very rarely go down while under nourish buff. Smeeta gives more loot in a looter shooter. You're hard pressed to beat that. 8. I don't understand what your point is. You're saying you don't need to amp it if you're using the equilibrium setup I guess but my main point is nourish is a very easy way to replace that entire setup. 9. The numbers are against you fam. Cool theory tho 10. None of the abilities/builds do both. Equilibrium doesn't give cc and the cc abilities don't give massive energy generation. You're making non points lmao 11. No one is obligated to respond to you. Just like you weren't obligated to respond to me even though I made a comment specifically debunking your entire point. I'd say that demanding someone respond to your every point when your comment is one of hundreds is pretty rude tbh. 12. "So I don't care what you feel like responding to" 13. Nah
Dispensary = S tier Missed the mark there. Nourish cant charge Arcane Blessing, Health Conversion, Energy Conversion. Nourish needs a source to modify. This IS the source. And, ammo..? Edit: there are most definitely other benefits Im forgetting 100%
@@pneuma8819 yeah but so is nourish hell lycaths hunt give both energy and health orbs and can have its duration refreashed and is recastable but its draw back is needing melee and ehadshot kills for those orbs
@@noahedenborg4221 the point was, if its recastable it doesnt much matter that its stationary. I love Nourish as much as anyone and is my MOST subsumed ability. But, imo Dispensary is S tier as well
@@pneuma8819 not really because u also have to wait to get orbs and ammo while u have parazon mods that make mercy kills drop orbs and eximus always drop 1 energy orb and can be put into mercy range quite quickly it's kinda just outclassed only really good if u have good duration strength and are camping
you can use Ivara invisible arrow for MESA, when you defend or survival, MESA with invisible is literally afk immortal turret. MESA's [4] work very well with invisible and not reveal herself when shooting
Ivaras quiver is amazing for xaku and sitting afk. You can infinitely afk any steel path mission. So for xaku specifically it’s the best helminth you can have for not playing the game and going infinitely in steel path
@kyaii Hydroid's 3rd skill (PLUNDER) is so broken. It has Armour Strip, Corrosive Proc and damage boost! However, it seems like it cannot be added as a helminth lol..
I like to use Trinitys Well of life with her augment Pool of life with Equalibrium. Its a no cooldown Arcane energize. You invest 25 Energie and get around 300 back in an instant. Plus you can use it to give youre Team imunity for status or use it to take enermies that are anoying out of the fight for a few seconds. Plus it stores the Damage as true Damage. Link with Kullervo and nuke a room for free.
I respect your opinion but a lot of these abilities I use cuz it adds a slight utility with a lot of fun/aesthetic. Fire-blast may not be the best armor strip but setting a room on fire and getting some health back fulfills the cavemanin me. The thing about warframe is unless you’re doing crazy endgame content. Most things will be viable.
Condemn is better than pillage in some ways, the lockdown of enemies makes charging incarnons super easy. And the shield gains are like instant whereas pillage takes a few seconds before it comes back. It would be amazing if it was radial like pillage, but maybe too OP
I don't have any issue with charging incarnons without it, so that's a personal issue more so than a community wide one. Pillage can be used to shield gate on cast and can be cancelled so you do not need to wait.
You can actually use Blood Altar on Mag, cause by making the enemy u cast your Magnetize on immortal, it keeps pulling enemies to the center of it, and that's kinda useful in long survivals where u get in a closed space, cast Blood Altar on an enemy right at the entrance then magnetize and gg
Nourish is op, but good op. It’s QoL and it’s more or less what u already have, but stronger. Stronger panzer, and not being castrated for not having energize. Thermal sunder while not being as op is def shit op. U load info any pub and see Garuda and it’s zzzzz time. Relic opening and ur running to catch up while everything is already dead with void traces everywhere and ur just playing run to extraction simulator
nourish needs a nerf as helminth ability, that would also benefit grendel too, as now he's practically just a way to get nourish for the rest of your wf.
Petrify doesn't work with nekros since his loot gets better if enemy is slashed and have more body parts severed...and peteify prevents that from happening
since tharros strike i can't really justify terrify on S anymore, it's higher range and full AoE, but also expensive, armor only, requires a mod slot, and even with the augment it still slows enemies that aren't in LoS, one of the more annoying abilities to see people using in defence and survival, but it got the S tier pass for being the most viable armor strip in helminth for a long time. A tier, yeah that's still pretty fair largely on merit of being an armor strip that's highly accessible, lowest strength requirement (subsumeable) and fills the nuker armor strip niche.
This is an opinion some ppl won`t like but i`ll say it anyway. Ash needs a revisit and it doesn't matter what anyone else says, stats and ppl`s actions proves he needs one. I say Ash needs a revisit and ppl say "he`s perfect" and get upset with me but he`s not, Ash has issues most ppl don`t know about. The reason being because; · People use two of his augments and helminth 24/7 to the point where they completely ignore the issues of the abilities and act like they are ok. · The way people use him and talk about him ("oh he can use seeking shuriken to strip armour and can kill lvl 100+ with bs) they can`t see his issues in a general sense. Look at it this way you have Ash - warframe and you have Ryu - ninja gaiden, if you put Ash in ninja gaiden he would be great probably be even better than Ryu on the other hand if you put Ryu in warframe he will have trouble in that setting. I was playing Ash and their is something I realised... Ash can`t deal with hordes of enemies efficiently that`s why most ppl won`t play him. The most effective (fun) way to play him is to play stealthy, he can actually be fun if you play him this way. but wf is a for the most part a horde game and Ash just can`t deal with them so this and other issues with him he needs a revisit. I have put up a post on the warframe forums called: EVIDENCE OF WHY ASH NEEDS A REVISIT. It presents his issues with facts and stats and I give him a revisit that addresses his issues and makes him a much better warframe to play. Take a look and tell me what you think ON THE POST.
Ash is an assassin not a hoard killer and his kit does fit with that theme. His 4 can kill crowds but maybe slower than others so might as well equip an aoe weapon for that.
Blood Altar would be so much better if it healed based on your max health, rather than just your missing health. Especially since you can stack the effect with overlapping blood altars
As a trinity player, infested mobility is awesome, it’s the only way you will remotely keep up with most players doing speed runs, I don’t think fire walker is as fast, also with link and blessing you already can’t die, so status procs on you don’t matter, and you already armor strip, so fire walker is unnecessary, HOWEVER on anyone aside from trinity, it’s a useless helminth. Also parasitic armor plus rhino charge = over 100,000 over guard on regular star chart. Much higher on steel path, and going into low level missions with 100,000 over guard and a fully forma optimized kuva Brahma is just silly 🎉 Do it for the memes
Well of life is a B Tier ability imo because it does one thing super well that nothing else does: It instant kills thumpers no matter what level with the right (super low investment) build. Cast Well on the thumper and stagger yourself three times. Thumper is now dead. Some would say that killing thumpers isnt the hard part (finding them is) but at high levels they can be super irritating to fight.
fire blast will always full strip as long as 2 or more people in the squad have corrosive projection. probably the greatest armor strip in the game if that circumstance is met
@@kyaii radial strip, no enemy cap like Terrify has, basically zero strength investment required, radius scales off both range and duration, procs status. Only downsides would be that it costs 75 instead of 50 like most other armor strip helminths and the procs might mess up heat inherit
Just some constructive criticism, test out the ability thoroughly to understand it. You're unintentionally spreading misinformation. Fire Blast doesn't work the way you explained it, it's 75% per cast, meaning you must it twice to completely remove armor. I have it on my Rhino Prime and it works as intended, it's excellent for armor stripping and crowd control, no energy issues at 160 efficiency, 266 strength, 100 range, 70 duration. I only have 150 max energy and it's never an issue.
Harrow's condemned is easily very good against infected compared to pillage, you bring pillagte in infected missions and you know you made a mistake. With Condemned at least it works everywhere, downside is if the ennemy fly you cry. Baruuk with Condemned is my go against infected, he doesn't die to anything in the game, also lower casting cost is nice
If you subsume resonator do you get to have the mandachord for that warframe and be able to pick the song or is it just the last song octavia has equipped is what your resonator will be? Oh and nice nova! 👌
"really high energy cost " it just feels like too many people run without efficiency or dont know that depending on where you put the ability you subsume will change how much it coast to use
13:23 and you are wrong for saying that. it has not just great range, it has the best range of all area armor strip, it also can full strip with 2 casts at 100% str. that alone makes it an amazing armor strip. not just that but, it can even strip in 2 casts with as low as 67 str. which is a weird number, sure, but its still alot higher than most other abilities. look at pillage, sure it works on shields, and recover your own, but it need ALOT of str investment to be a good armor strip. and the range? base 8m. that's less than 1/3rd the range of fireblast. in other words, you would need 300% range with pillage and it would still offer less range than fireblast. seriously, with overextended+cunning drift+augur reach+ stretch, it would still not have the range of NO MOD fireblast. its such a massive diference that you could put a fully upgraded narrow minded on fireblast, and it still would have MORE RANGE than base pillage. people get too hung up on comparing it to ember's version, when in fact, fireblast is an amazing armor strip choice for pretty much any frame that cant have more than base str invested. so if you have a full tank inaros for example, with no str investment, put fireblast on him and call it a day.
Pillage scales off duration with every second equating to 20 meters of expansion so no, it doesn't beat it there. Fire blast requires LOS, doesn't work on knockdown resistant enemies and doesn't have ANY of the added benefits Pillage does. It is most definitely worse
41:00 Ivara's Quiver gives Stealth arrow and Noise Arrow. The Noise Arrow is completely useless, but the stealth arrow is amazing on SUPPORT frames. Or frames like Banshee that could use that little extra survivability. Also, i don't know why your comparing it to the Huras Kubrow as it's literally the same thing. You can spam abilities, you can use silent weapons. Anything noisy will break the stealth. But it's easily B tier but meant for Support. Limbo, and Revenant in my opinion should be F tier.
Eh, dedicating an entire helminth slot to it with the existence of better survivability options and shield gating for squishy frames is not a great thing. Huras Kubrow is a companion that allows you to use entirely different things. I don't remember exactly how I compare them but Huras is just better.
@@kyaii well stalk and ghost break on weapon attack and needs enemys near cloak arrow which u can shot ur own sentinel has a duration range and iirc doesnt break
I main Nezha and I have a silly build focused on his 3 were I use Empower before casting it so it boost the damage absorption, it's not that bad actually xD
I have a silly Citrine build where I have empower ... with an empowered sentry and throwing my empowered crystal at an enemy, I just mentally hear the metal pipe falling sound effect on impact
Haven't watched the entire thing but the Ash one was pretty much the only reliable armor strip before de change how armor stripping works. I do agree now its pretty much outclassed. Also, I see rhino on the tierlist but seem to be skipped in the video.
not the only one, nyx was shuriken but better in every single way. it shot multiples as opposed to just 2. it gave CC on targets hit and best of all NO MOD REQUIRED.
I was a bit annoyed when you put fractured blast in C, but then you went and put condemn also in C, when it is a super cheap, fast, and easy way to shield gate while also having great CC. Throwing it down a hallway locks down that entire hallway. If you honestly can't see why it's so good, there is a problem. Some people would rather the enemies stop moving than needing them to be armor stripped. Condemn and pillage both give you shields, but one is more of a crowd control tool, when the frame you're playing wants more CC. For late game players, having high damaging weapons isn't that hard to get, so the value of locking enemies down versus making them easier to kill is much much more desirable to many. Also with the new update changing shield gating, condemn has even more value and should see even more usage. For being free shield gating alone, it deserves A tier.
you are supposedly talking objectively about a lot of stuff, but you cant then talk about "how x or y" is underrated, while ranking the default helminth abilities higher than decoy liek XD, like, good video, (although as some comments said, ranking subsumes in general is quite... odd because every warframe has its own needs) but like, idk, the abilities with niche uses are still good withing their niche, like, idk banishing a loki decoy for the that thing of drawing agro agresively away or the healing the defense target with garudas blood altar, idk, like, feels very biased for it to be "an objective tierlist"
![[WARFRAME] THE BEST HELMINTH ABILITIES!](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/sheHlrpqaOc/mqdefault.jpg)
Some things that should be considered because there are specific frames that do benefit a lot from subsumes, and I feel it isn't really fair to rank subsumes off general use because a lot of them excel with built loadouts that utilize it the most. I think looking at it from this perspective will open up the subsume possibilities even more. I get it, meta is meta but Subsumes really allow us to explore under used and under valued kits. You don't have to run whats really popular or good, oftentimes using the lower rank stuff might be as good if not even better, or just more fun to play with.
So for those who are looking for some interesting use cases, allow me to present some options:
Coil Horizon is fantastic with Oberon Replace his smite with it, armor strip with 2 + 4 then coil horizon
Quiver with the POWER OF THREE Augment over Xaku's 1 is an actual AFK DPS setup, very potent for steel path
Limbo's Banish on Loki's Decoy is at the moment the strongest and highest enemy aggression in the game, since Decoy has a very high base duration this means you can keep a banished decoy up to 70 seconds or so before Molt efficiency, with Loki's hyper utility kit this is actually a saving grace (Using Irradiating Disarm to completely break 99% of enemies)
Using Ice Wave Impedance this opens up for some small range molecular prime builds to further maximize the slow on a small slow nova without having to use silence, Impedance is also great against infested since the slow is a wide cone radius (This one is still somewhat Niche but its a lot more fun than you'd realize)
Cold Ward has a VERY high damage multiplier, that alone makes it very valuable (with new cold changes.. pretty self explanatory) but in other cases like Hildryn with Electric Ward this gives her higher max energy, and you can use Toxin Ward to activate Primary Blight. (IIRC they might have finally fixed blight but I'm not 100% sure) Toxin Ward also gives reload speed bonus so this makes using slower reload weapons like the Ogris, Zarr or Tigris really fast. and Heat Ward is more max health, always nice to use this on Nekros for more health.
Tempest Barrage pierces nullifier bubbles, its not much but that alone makes CC Corpus setups a lot more manageable. Especially with Vauban who can pierce nulifiers to then vortex everything in.
Mind Control contrary to popular belief actually allows Revenant to make EXCELLENT use of his Thrall Pact augment, mind controlling a thrall then spreads the thrall status extremely quickly thus building up your thrall pact damage.
Molt actually allows Wukong to gain a RAPID BURST of movement under Cloud Walk, pairing this with Dispatch Overdrive and Wukong will walk to the exit within a matter of seconds, this also proves useful when using Wuklone to prime enemies via Tenet Cycron while your walking around meleeing under cloud walk.
Spellbind is Primed Sure Footed.
Well Of Life opens up for an EASY Health Conversion build using its augment Pool of Life, the extra armor is very useful at times and isn't bad with Nekros. (Just one example)
Defy actually scales with enemies, this means at level cap simply priming / launching a few primed shots into enemies then defying will let you kill them since the damage is high enough and is enough to kill on reflect, but more importantly Defy + Rhino gives him more armor and another damage gate instance (First is Iron Skin, then Shield Gate, and now defy!)
The reason Condemn is so popular is because its shield siphon is easy to proc, Pillage is great don't get me wrong but once the enemies armor is gone, you cannot siphon shields anymore, the only way to bypass this is to use Blazing Pillage which is exclusive to Hildryn, Blazing allows you to siphon shields even when armor is 0 on the units. Condemn doesn't have this limitation, and it makes headshot builds easy and in specific, Knell, a neat setup I found useful was to run Condemn on Nova, Prime enemies and lock them in place for headshot on knell but there are a bunch of use cases here too, and its also a one hand cast unlike pillage, so your momentum isn't halted.
Excalibur and Banshee are interchangeable. Stacking Savage Silence + Radiant Finish giving you massive finisher damage.
While the parazon mod to auto hack is nice its not always guarantee and for speedrunning archon hacks Perspicacity is still the way to go, there isn't anything wrong with this one use case to be honest so for those struggling, run this with Wukong!
Firewalker is still active under the cloud walk, you can spread the CC even more thus making the Melee roam build even more effective since now not only are you stunning enemies exiting the cloud walk but you are then stunning them again via firewalker. Pair this with ENVELOPING CLOUD augment and your wuklone is actually invisible so now you have lots of CC and an invis monkey to prime infinitely!
Dessication opens up Arcane Trickery on every single warframe, arcane trickery isn't popular anymore but turning every frame invis is honestly... kinda nice.
Lull gives ASH if you put it on him, Endless Lullaby! Great synergy from that alone.
Theres plenty more options, just give the other helminth abilities a deeper look and you'll find a ton of interesting mechanics and synergies.
I don't understand. Why do you need Power of Three on Xaku? I mean, isn't the Quiver abilities itself is enough?
u should make some vids with warframe tech and other cool builds for warframes with weird subsumes, would be very fun (basically more of ur off meta perspective vid)
i would watch a video about things like that thx for sharing mr warframehistory
@@ewy4010 Because with Power of Three you get to cover and create a larger cloak area on one cast, the setup is an invis DPS one, where after you gazed a target and snagged guns with Lohk, you hide in quiver.
@@NovaUmbralyeah but if you're already just sitting still pressing 4 do you really that big of an invis area?
S Tier:
- Gauss' Thermal Sunder - 24:33
- Grendel's Nourish - 26:13
- Hildryn's Pillage - 32:32
- Khora's Ensnare - 41:37
- Mesa's Shooting Gallery - 51:49
- Nekros' Terrify - 55:29
- Styanax’s Tharros Strike - 1:12:17
A Tier:
- Banshee's Silence - 3:36
- Equinox's Rest & Rage - 14:56
- Gara's Spectrorage - 20:51
- Mag's Pull - 49:30
- Mirage's Eclipse - 53:51
- Nidus' Larva - 58:48
- Octavia's Resonator - 1:03:31
- Protea's Dispensary - 1:04:52
- Sevagoth’s Gloom - 1:10:10
- Wisp's Breach Surge - 1:19:09
- Xaku's Xata's Whisper - 1:20:52
- Zephyr's Airburst - 1:23:09
B Tier:
- Baruuk's Lull - 5:23
- Chroma's Elemental Ward - 8:54
- Nezha's Fire Walker - 57:03
- Nova's Null Star - 1:00:09
- Oberon's Smite - 1:02:16
- Saryn's Molt - 1:08:44
- Valkyr's Warcry - 1:15:01
- Vauban's Tesla Nervos - 1:16:06
- Voruna's Lvcath's Hunt - 1:17:47
- Yareli’s Aquablades - 1:22:17
C Tier:
- Atlas' Petrify - 1:48
- Caliban's Sentient Wrath - 7:35
- Citrine's Fractured Blast - 10:25
- Ember's Fire Blast - 12:39
- Excalibur's Radial Blind - 17:36
- Lavos' Vial Rush - 45:12
- Limbo's Banish - 46:44
- Loki's Decoy - 48:29
- Nyx's Mind Control - 1:01:16
- Revenant's Reave - 1:07:03
- Titania's Spellbind - 1:12:57
- Trinity's Well of Life - 1:14:17
- Volt's Shock - 1:16:55
- Wukong's Defy - 1:19:57
D Tier:
- Ash's Shuriken - 0:00
- Frost's Ice Wave - 18:48
- Garuda's Blood Altar - 22:23
- Harrow's Condemn - 30:24
- Hydroid's Tempest Barrage - 34:58
- Inaros' I'm Gonna Put Some Dirt In Your Eye - 37:39
- Ivara's Quiver - 39:05
F Tier:
- Loki's Decoy - 48:29
If this comment affects engagement in a negative way please delete it. Just organized it @ky
Thanks for the list. I think you missed Rhino's Roar.
@@MarkLangdahlhmm. I see it in S tier in one of the pictures but I can’t find where he talks about it in the video. Do you have a time stamp?
Hmmm, I just checked and I think you're right... Also gotta say it pretty much has to be S rank.
Forgot Kull’s 1, S tier.
As a Limbo Main it saddens me to say this but Banish is useless unless it’s on Limbo. His 1-3 combo is stupid op when used on Grineer and Infested and without it it’s pretty awful. Great vid and glad to hang out 👌
Loki with Decoy, niche ik, but still a use
@@leavemebevidsarecrappy9039 yeah learned about that recently, crazy strong ngl.
If for whatever reason you need to grind defection, put it on wisp with the healing banish augment. Let them get mote buffs for speed and then banish, they sprint to the finish.
I use it in arbi on Gara to keep the target from ever dying. Carried 2 players in a 2-hour mission, legit had those 2, and the target perma banished so they could get loot.
Put it on any speed frame for easy rescue missions. Just banish the hostage and book it to extraction.
Can't forget that petrified enemies also gain +50% elemental damage effectiveness up to 100% (so like, if enemies take +50% heat damage and -75% impact, when petrified they'd take +100% heat and -25% impact) making it also a soft dps tool. The things it does might not be too impressive individually, but when considered as a single ability, it's actually pretty good. I vote B tier for petrify
What’s really fun is put warcry on Gauss max duration build (as his 4 attack speed increase scales with duration not strength) and use galantine prime with berserker fury and get a wisp to provide you a haste mote, and use various melee attack speed arcanes.
You melee so fast you can’t even see the animations but your melee has a range of like 4 meters and you are basically a furious ball of death
Okay I've watched 37:59 of this video. My question is.
How are you going to do a Helminth Subsume Tier list when
a.) You don't know which ability you're able to subsume, and it would've benefited more if your Video location was the actual Helminth, because you can see every available ability. Rather than the Arsenal.
b.)You're missing a bunch of Augments, the Augments explanation from the Arsenal. So if the Ability is able to be band aide fixed. Relying on this video you wouldn't know it.
Beyond those key aspects pretty decent Video for the ones you do have , you're hella informative for the ones that have an Augments.
I'd give it a B- Tier because key essential aspects are missing, like remembering which ones are subsumable, and their augments.
But he knows what the abilities do, that's the important part. He might not know off the bat which ability is subsumed but once he remembers or looks it up, he knows what the abilities do already.
@@TheBigWetWilliereading a description of an ability and using it on star chart are two different things. Buddy said several times he doesn’t have experience with certain abilities. Lol he lost me when he asked chat for help on smite one of the OG S tier abilities.
@@joec200012 thats exactly how I felt watching this. Multiple times he mentioned he basically doesn't know what an ability does or how effective it actually is. I'm not expecting that level of knowledge from your average player, but if you're setting out to do a tier list which a lot of players will subsequently base their understanding of the Helminth abilities on, I definitely feel like knowing how each of the abilities functions with and without their augments, is a basic prerequisite.
garuda's blood altar has 2 amazing subsume uses.
1- inaros. because its based on both missing health and its % it means this is the only real healing ability that he can use.
2- Nekros. again, its the only real healing that can be used with the shadows. because they have enemy health, it means other ablities just dont heal them enough to sustain them, but pop a blood altar, and you will have constant healing for them. its amazing for a shield of shadows build.
I like gloom for its cc, but yeh its true for 2nd, I love Nekros and gloom won't heal defense objectives as vid mentioned anyways (the team I was with over at archon hunt defense appreciated it at least!)
@@JaneValentine007 yeah, i wanted gloom to work so bad for nekros shadows, but nah. it doesnt compare to blood altar. which sucks because i put gloom on top of blood altar and i will have to reattach blood altar again.
Fire Walker is insanely underrated. It does so much for so little. I run it on both my Nova builds. Sprint speed is nice but the least of its benefits. Spreading heat procs that CC and deal a decent amount of dmg over time, status cleansing (primed sure footed who?) Just stand in the fire. With high duration, it lasts for 91 seconds (that's a minute and a half). It's not for every frame, but when it works, it's so good. It's a highly undervalued helminth for everything it brings for one cheap cast.
(Btw I have over 3k hours, play almost exclusively on Steel Path, and I main Nova. So I have a ton of experience.)
Resonator is the best CC in the game as long as you aren't speedrunning a map, and even then its good.
On any frame that has great DPS tools but lacks survivability (Banshee, I'm looking at you) there really isn't a better choice.
Infested Mobility - If you think about it, there are a LOT of times you just want to "point A to point B", and this is amazing for that.
Perspicacity - Spy missions. Throw on Wukong (the only good use for that frame), and you bypass lasers and hacking effortlessly.
Resonator is great but I find Molt to be better than Infested Mobility.
Perspicacity is useless, ciphers exist and for Wukong himself quite literally just use Molt to make his Cloudwalker faster and speed run better.
@@kyaii Molt is nice if you like the additional benefits, but IM is ideal if all you want to do is get to the other side of the room in 0.1 seconds.
Ciphers can't always be used (sorties, for instance).
Some interesting things to note for some of these:
Frost's Ice Wave: the augment actually works on Eximus units. Still not worth using as a Helminth ability, but on Frost himself it's quite nice and he now has the mod space thanks to Overguard mechanics. It allows Frost to crowd control multiple areas at the same time.
Molt: actually has a speedrunning niche on Wukong. It's the only Helminth that can multiply the speed of Cloudwalker and damn! Does he go fast with Molt and high power strength O.O My go-to build for fast Capture/Spy runs.
Gloom: we all know how good it is, especially when paired with Silence for those long stuns, but it also has another combo that I never see anyone use: Arcane Eruption.
Cheap arcane to get/easy to farm and knocks down everything in a 30 METERS RADIUS! Add Gloom to that and it's just dumb how much passive crowd control this combo has. Love this on Nekros especially (it works on any frame, but those who can spawn energy orbs at an increased rate amplify this combo massively) for just some easy and chill Steel Path farming.
Gyre's grouping is 50% more range than others though. Both Airburst and Larva get 8m base on other frames, while Coil Horizon gets the full 12m. It's good!
Yeah but it's the physics of coil horizon that's the problem
@@noahedenborg4221which isnt a huge problem on most tilesets when you try to keep high ground
@@timcal2136 u also cant thorw it up or down
Airburst is my fav. Instant and spammable
""It would be good if it was better" is probably the funniest thing i've heard in a while tbh
I feel like making Eclipse a toggle gets rid of its personality. Seeking out pockets of light/darkness _could_ be an interesting gameplay loop. The problem is that the buff is constantly changing as you move around -- in this _movement shooter._
I'd fix Eclipse by making it _snapshot_ the buff you get when you cast it. Maybe you can hold the button to 'detect' whether you're in light or darkness, and then release the button to confirm your buff. Then you can move around freely, holding onto the buff you found.
Adding onto your idea, what if Eclipse worked like Wisp's motes? If you leave the light, the buff stays for a certain duration. This way you do keep the 'personality' of both buffs by Eclipse.
5 months later it becomes a toggle but at the cost of a big damage nerf
@@0Rosanna [Primed Disappointment]
you get easy 75% damage resist and free tickles now lol. its one of the few things that make Banshee not only usable, but probably one of the best frames despite being like in the top 5 least played frames statistically
stacking sonar to have consistent millions of damage so strong you can overflow the integer limit, one of the best armor strips since the cone is huge and only takes 143% strength for a full armor strip, and silence is just an easy W built into her kit ... literally the only thing that was ever bad on her was that she was paper thin (eclipse damage resistance works on shields too)
you might think her armor strip is bad despite having great range and barely requiring strength because its pushes things a bit ..... until you realize it works on things like acolytes, necramechs, demolisher units ... necramech demolisher units ...
Small disclaimer about Eclipse: the damage buff/reduction becomes consistent if your Warframe is invisible
So if you were to, say, use Ivara's Prowl to boost headshot damage while invisible, or keep bunny hopping or bullet jumping to trigger Exodia Contagion while happening to use Wisp...
Wait, where is rhino?
at 1:37:42 they scroll up and show Rhino in S+ tier
I appreciate that you admit when you aren't sure about something, more youtubers need that humbleness
I have a hard time subsuming any grouping ability when Magus anomaly is in the game. It’s literally about 75% as good as any grouping ability, costs 0 energy, and you still get a helminth to use on a damage buff or armor strip.
It's kind of hard to create a list ranking when multiple thing you haven't not just experimented with but not tried on other frames at all. I would love to see this done again with the proper time taken to do a real deep testing. Maybe in 2024.
You asked what you might ever wanna subsume Baruuk’s lull for and I can give you a specific niche!
It’s an amazing helminth (especially with the augment) for cracking open stealth finisher rivens! If you’re playing a frame with a bad energy economy and isn’t have the mythical arcane energize, it’s nice. I’m sure there are more efficient ways, but it’s a fun option.
I watched one minute and I can tell you this is a video I needed. I'm a returning veteran player. I stopped playing before the Helminth abilities came out. Thank you!
Actually Banish, Is pretty Tasty. If you put it on a DPS Frame like Protea especially since her guns just got a boob job. Warframe abilities can hit banished enemies, For example trade out Radial Blind for Banish and Excalibur becomes totally untouchable. Garuda's Claws works on banished targets as well. I haven't ran it on every single frame yet, but Banish is kinda Tasty from what I've seen so far. On Vauban and THE SQUAD!!!! (see Triburos video for reference Funny shit). Finally and this is a big point here and I know it's 100% Niche, but it's a huge headache relief. Sortie and Archon living Defense Targets, that think they can face tank, and end up Face Fucked. "No body puts baby in a corner"... I do, I will, and I did. Banish his ass to Canada's coldest Ice cap and then it's all Cake Pie and Ice-cream. I'm not sure If Nekros Shadow slaves can or Nyx Mind Controlled do-boy. Any frame with exhalated weapons works.
I like the Bile Green and Pepto Nidus, 🤢🤮Sick
Blood alter is also decent on nekros for a despoil build, also heals your shadows
Null star with archon vitality and a decent setup is a great alternative for fast Warframe leveling in sanctuary onslaught
I would say petrify as a loot ability is awesome when combined with a Prisma Gorgon with Metamorphic Magazine. It doesn't require energy since it's the gun doing the petrifying. But the loot effect still works and scales with strength. It's sort of niche but it's definitely a use case. I run it on Nezha for certain farms because that is already a frame where I go for max possible strength.
Just an idea, I don't know how good it'd be in practice, but Caliban's Sentient Wrath, might not be all that bad if used properly. As a CC, that 16 target count isn't that great. But, what if those targets could become bombs? The Saxum mod set does this, and with all three mods lifted enemies will explode for 30% their max health. Granted, this explosion is kinda small at 4 meters, but if you have a tightly packed corridor, or you've gone long enough in a mission and there's a bunch of monsters crawling around, then, this could do well. You get a bit of hard CC, some damage vulnerability, and possibly some infinite scaling damage as well, because that damage is 30% of a monster's max health. If you get something really tanky, that could be a big boom.
I know this is going to sound stupid, but I got around to testing Ice Wave because of this video and it's actually pretty good.
The base ability alone gives a wide slow effect that works on CC inmune enemies like Eximus, Acolytes and Demolysts, but it's with the augment where things get crazy.
Because the slow from the cold procs stacks with the one you get from the augment, so on initial cast you make enemies so slow it's almost like they're in stasis. And that's without mentioning the small boost in critical damage from cold or the relatively quick casting speed that makes it useful for shield gating
I've been using it on my Nyx and loving it so far
I know its pretty niche, but well of life can be used as a mini nuke in circuit with the bombastines malice decree. Its a really easy way to kind of afk in exterm, defense and survival. Not the craziest thing ever but its pretty cool. Can do the same with xaku's gazed enemy
Yeah but that specifically with a decree we ain't counting that
Subbed for the hype ending.
Vial Rush on Mag is actually not bad since she can strip armor to begin with and all the vials will get sucked to the center of the bubble for some insane dps. Course you could just fire like 1 Nataruk shot into the bubble and it blows up everything anyway, but it's something you can do. if you wanna.
Also Golden Instinct is not invalidated by Orokin Eye because its range can be increased to like 400m which usually covers the entire map if you're not on Lua or Albrecht's Lab. You use Golden Instinct to see if it triggers at all, then you go further in and use it again to try to pinpoint the location better and once you think you've narrowed it down enough THEN you use Orokin Eye to skip the rest of the guessing. Golden Instinct has a 15 sec cooldown. Orokin Eye is 5 minutes. You use them together or not at all.
Perspicacity you run on Ivara or Wukong over their respective 4's because the base frame is plenty good enough for sorties and having the instant hack makes it so you can do the spy missions without brainless randos giving you an aneurysm by walking into the most obvious alarm in the known universe and failing the mission for you.
Inaros pocket sand has 1, extremely niche use case and it's in the circuit. Circuit LOVES to give you "On finisher, do X" or "On finisher, buff Y" and pocket sand is by far the easiest and cheapest way to make use of those cards. Throw it on one of the cheap stealth frames, I used Loki because he really doesn't lose much for getting a finisher opener and has perma stealth, check the melee weapons being offered and if you're able to, mod them for finisher damage before going into circuit and just execute enemies until you hit a defense mission and leave.
It is EXTREMELY cheesy, but my god if you roll a dagger and have covert lethality it becomes a total meme run, it's so silly.
44:06. I put "wrathful advance" in place of Ash's 1st ability "shruiken".......😮😂😮😂😮
You were right. Tempest barrage is nasty
No nerf nourish. Nourish good. Nourish stay. Nourish make Tenno happy.
Ones like Citrine could be adjusted over time depend on what happens when they start to get augments for their abilities. Otherwise very handy for someone still in the early days of using the Helminth system like me.
Helminth: now you can have nourish on everything
Petrify on Hildryn with max duration is what I use for Simaris targets lol. You can infinitely petrify which is good in niche situations
I'd say Gloom is S on Protea because her passive makes getting the required power strength trivial, and she can easily sustain the cost with dispensary
Bro I'm a returning player I've been waiting for this for so long thank you ❤
7000 hours here. Wukong with perspicacity for 4th is my most used frame. Throw on a run speed mod or two. Spy, rescue, sortie, relic cracks. Through lasers and sensors with cloudwalk. Easy peasy.
High ability duration of course.
I've never lost confidence in a youtuber's knowledge on a game faster than "Gloom... I don't know if it's S tier". Freezing everyone, instant and constant full heals, no energy drain when not doing anything and allows passive regen, instantly heals off of passive damage.
No, you don't need to max strength for max slow for it to be good.
Limbo's banish with the rift haven augment can be subsumed onto wisp for the defecation mode. Makes it easy to keep the npcs alive
"Look at Tentacle Swarm. This is like the trolliest ability in the game"
You just hurt Limbo mains on a new deep level. You took from them the one thing they had, the one thing nobody could argue they weren't the best in
26:13 So I am going to have a hot take here, but I do not agree with you, AT ALL. Nourish does not need to be nerfed, at all, or buffed. It is actually perfectly balanced and needs to be left alone. Your argument that it solves "EVERY Warframe's energy economy" is an easily nullified point because Synth set+ Panzer Vulpaphyla exists while you have Equilibrium. If you have energy issues beyond that, it's an issue with your build, plain and simple. As for adding Viral Damage to your weapons... It also opens up the ability to have even more build variety with your weapons and allows you to create other combo's instead of forcing your weapons to be built of Viral+Hunter Moo-moo and the added damage is not that high. And also, again, Synth set+ Panzer Vulpaphyla exists and can spread more viral procs. And to your point of the Aoe Viral Proc... 1 stack of Viral on a 2 second cooldown isn't that good especially if you are moving around and crowd controlling enemies or nuking them with Aoe weapons. And AGAIN, Panzer Vulpa combo + It doesn't require you to be hit to spread Viral. Literally everything your saying, the Panzer Vulpa with Synth set+Swipe, and Equilibrium on your frame, can do what Nourish does, and in some ways, do it better. The only two differences are no Viral Damage on Weapons and no Viral Aoe explosion when you are hit. You can instead cause the spores to explode and spread onto enemies.
So people didn't "loose there shit". They just don't agree with you. Like I don't.
Quite literally ignoring that what nourish does is require you to not have to do any of the things you mentioned in favor of combining it with other stronger stuff..
I honestly don't feel like responding to all of your points though so whatever
@@kyaii "I honestly don't feel like responding to all of your points though so whatever": See if you didn't have this line in your response, I would have seen this as more of a peaceful discussion. But now you are just plain arrogant. Especially considering that what I so called "ignored", I didn't actually ignore at all, because of three reasons: 1: Nourish takes freedom of ability choices away if you solely rely on it and costs energy to utilize, which can be put towards better things, like Silence from Banshee, or Pillage from Hildryn, and many other options. 2: People use the Panzer Vulpa combo anyway, making your point of "what nourish does is require you to not have to do any of the things you mentioned in favor of combining it with other stronger stuff.." completely redundant because people already utilize the Panzer Vulpa to do what Nourish does, fix the energy economy issue and spread viral. Minus the two differences I mentioned in my previous comment. And 3: It forces you to build around it to some degree, and compromise the rest of your kit to be effective. It's not just a simple "throw this in as a supplement and I'm good." ability.
So I don't care what you "feel" like responding to. Simple matter is that you are very wrong about it needing to be nerfed and I took the time to prove why you are wrong. But I can tell just by your attitude, this will go no where with you. Enjoy the rest of your day.
@@ThomasForlinpanzer vulp does not spread viral faster
Viral corrosive is cracked
Removes needing to use 3 specific mods to get energy gain
Massive cc on activation
Viral applies on a lot of abilities like Garuda 4
You don't need to get hit. Just use combat discipline
Opens you up to having smeeta kavat for more drops
Amps all energy gains like styanax 3, zenuirk, e orbs etc as opposed to only picking up orbs
You're failing to see how spreading the best status effect in the game in a large radius is already really good. That's before we even talk about the cc and energy generation. You're acting like he's being rude but you're not even making good points lmao. He's choosing to not discuss it with you because you're going to write a massively over worded paragraph just to my comment and act high and mighty while doing it. Maybe try some introspection before judging others personality
@@RapTapTap69
1) "Panzer Vulp does not spread viral faster": 1 stack every 2 seconds per enemy vs 3-6 per enemy without an internal GCD and less micromanagement=faster and better.
2) "viral corrosive is cracked": Yep. But I am not gonna change status proc priorities for it or use an ability for it, when the pet is better, see point 1.
3) "Removes needing to use 3 specific mods to get energy gain": It removes it, sure, but your kit also needs to accommodate for it, so changing your modding for your frame, which is more than 3 mods. Panzer is cheaper by default.
4) "Massive cc on activation": Silence, Fire Blast, Condemn, Thermal Sunder and many others do CC and more.
5) "Viral applies on a lot of abilities like Garuda 4": A good synergy, but that's all. Garuda can benefit from many other abilities and does not need Nourish.
6) "You don't need to get hit. Just use combat discipline": See point 3.
7) "Opens you up to having smeeta kavat for more drops": So a reliance on an RNG effect in place of something that does Nourish's job better, without a heavy modding cost? No thanks. Also, Smeeta dies if not managed, panzer gets resurrected and does things while "dead".
8) "Amps all energy gains like styanax 3, zenuirk, e orbs etc as opposed to only picking up orbs": No need for the amplification on any build unless you build exclusively for a combo that requires it. So see point 3.
9) "You're failing to see how spreading the best status effect in the game in a large radius is already really good." Wrong, see point 1.
10) "That's before we even talk about the cc and energy generation.": Refer to points 3 and 4.
11) "You're acting like he's being rude but you're not even making good points lmao.": " "I honestly don't feel like responding to all of your points though so whatever" is rude and arrogant to say when someone has taken the time to address your points individually.
12) "He's choosing to not discuss it with you because you're going to write a massively over worded paragraph just to my comment and act high and mighty, while doing it.": Every response I have made to you is a sentence or slightly longer, only reason this is long is cause I am quoting your points. I'm not acting high and mighty and using long paragraphs to dominate and win. They were long because each point deserves a valid, descriptive response.
13) "Maybe try some introspection before judging others personality." See point 12 and take your own advice.
@@ThomasForlin 1. Panzer vulp targets 3 enemies every 5 seconds.... oh yeah that's definitely better than everything in 12 meters every 2 seconds.
2. It's a separate damage instance. Doesn't affect your damage weighting on weapons. I don't think you realize it gives 75% (scaling) viral weapon damage
3. Nourish frees up a Warframe slot and your companion slot. I fail to see how having a specific build on a specific companion and a mod slot on your Warframe is better than using your helminth when nearly every frame has one ability that's a throwaway
4. Silence doesn't spread viral, thermal sunder doesn't apply every 2 seconds, you didn't really put fire blast here lmao
5. Synergy is synergy. It's not an edge case as many abilities apply the extra toxin damage and every damage ability is benefitted by massive aoe toxin procs
6. One aura is far more convenient than specific build on specific companion and a Warframe slot. See point 3
7. nourish applies to your companion so every time they're attacked they proc nourish waves. Link mods make the smeeta very rarely go down while under nourish buff. Smeeta gives more loot in a looter shooter. You're hard pressed to beat that.
8. I don't understand what your point is. You're saying you don't need to amp it if you're using the equilibrium setup I guess but my main point is nourish is a very easy way to replace that entire setup.
9. The numbers are against you fam. Cool theory tho
10. None of the abilities/builds do both. Equilibrium doesn't give cc and the cc abilities don't give massive energy generation. You're making non points lmao
11. No one is obligated to respond to you. Just like you weren't obligated to respond to me even though I made a comment specifically debunking your entire point. I'd say that demanding someone respond to your every point when your comment is one of hundreds is pretty rude tbh.
12. "So I don't care what you feel like responding to"
13. Nah
Dispensary = S tier
Missed the mark there. Nourish cant charge Arcane Blessing, Health Conversion, Energy Conversion. Nourish needs a source to modify. This IS the source. And, ammo..?
Edit: there are most definitely other benefits Im forgetting 100%
Yeah but dispensary is stationary
@@noahedenborg4221 and recastable
@@pneuma8819 yeah but so is nourish
hell lycaths hunt give both energy and health orbs and can have its duration refreashed and is recastable but its draw back is needing melee and ehadshot kills for those orbs
@@noahedenborg4221 the point was, if its recastable it doesnt much matter that its stationary. I love Nourish as much as anyone and is my MOST subsumed ability. But, imo Dispensary is S tier as well
@@pneuma8819 not really because u also have to wait to get orbs and ammo while u have parazon mods that make mercy kills drop orbs and eximus always drop 1 energy orb and can be put into mercy range quite quickly it's kinda just outclassed only really good if u have good duration strength and are camping
as i garuda main who spend more then 1500 on her alone, ive never used my 2 in my whole life and was replaced before i knew it was there.
you can use Ivara invisible arrow for MESA, when you defend or survival, MESA with invisible is literally afk immortal turret. MESA's [4] work very well with invisible and not reveal herself when shooting
Ivaras quiver is amazing for xaku and sitting afk. You can infinitely afk any steel path mission. So for xaku specifically it’s the best helminth you can have for not playing the game and going infinitely in steel path
Resonator
From Octavia
Or terrify for mobile turret
@kyaii
Hydroid's 3rd skill (PLUNDER) is so broken. It has Armour Strip, Corrosive Proc and damage boost! However, it seems like it cannot be added as a helminth lol..
it's not a helminth lol
it's also not an armor strip, just makes his passive permanent
I like to use Trinitys Well of life with her augment Pool of life with Equalibrium.
Its a no cooldown Arcane energize.
You invest 25 Energie and get around 300 back in an instant.
Plus you can use it to give youre Team imunity for status or use it to take enermies that are anoying out of the fight for a few seconds.
Plus it stores the Damage as true Damage.
Link with Kullervo and nuke a room for free.
I respect your opinion but a lot of these abilities I use cuz it adds a slight utility with a lot of fun/aesthetic.
Fire-blast may not be the best armor strip but setting a room on fire and getting some health back fulfills the cavemanin me.
The thing about warframe is unless you’re doing crazy endgame content. Most things will be viable.
Dude that khora prime fashion is immaculate. You have got to show some of your fashions off.
Condemn is better than pillage in some ways, the lockdown of enemies makes charging incarnons super easy. And the shield gains are like instant whereas pillage takes a few seconds before it comes back. It would be amazing if it was radial like pillage, but maybe too OP
I don't have any issue with charging incarnons without it, so that's a personal issue more so than a community wide one.
Pillage can be used to shield gate on cast and can be cancelled so you do not need to wait.
Also Pillage can't gain sheilds when it already stripped armor (unless on hildryn ofc), while Condemn can
@@leavemebevidsarecrappy9039never had issues with that outside of low enemy density missions typically lower levels missions
@@Jean-gf3dj Never said it was an issue, just adding onto what the original commentor said
You can actually use Blood Altar on Mag, cause by making the enemy u cast your Magnetize on immortal, it keeps pulling enemies to the center of it, and that's kinda useful in long survivals where u get in a closed space, cast Blood Altar on an enemy right at the entrance then magnetize and gg
please do a passive tier list next, I'm curious as to what you would think of each warframe passive
Garuda instant s tier
Inaros instant F tier
Nourish is op, but good op. It’s QoL and it’s more or less what u already have, but stronger. Stronger panzer, and not being castrated for not having energize. Thermal sunder while not being as op is def shit op. U load info any pub and see Garuda and it’s zzzzz time. Relic opening and ur running to catch up while everything is already dead with void traces everywhere and ur just playing run to extraction simulator
You do need to do the Fortuna rep grind in order to get the resources to build the Hildryn parts.
Mind control is a good subsume for Trinity. Works with the augment that gives +360% crit chance
nourish needs a nerf as helminth ability, that would also benefit grendel too, as now he's practically just a way to get nourish for the rest of your wf.
Petrify doesn't work with nekros since his loot gets better if enemy is slashed and have more body parts severed...and peteify prevents that from happening
since tharros strike i can't really justify terrify on S anymore, it's higher range and full AoE, but also expensive, armor only, requires a mod slot, and even with the augment it still slows enemies that aren't in LoS, one of the more annoying abilities to see people using in defence and survival, but it got the S tier pass for being the most viable armor strip in helminth for a long time. A tier, yeah that's still pretty fair largely on merit of being an armor strip that's highly accessible, lowest strength requirement (subsumeable) and fills the nuker armor strip niche.
masters summon is only good for spy frames to teleport your companion past a wall to hack the terminal
I run Fractured Blast on a few energy-heavy frames and from what I've experienced, it's better than Nourish in that regard
Also free priming
Can you please do the leveling run with silence! I’m tired of running hydron so I can level all my frames with forma, thanks for the content!!!
Silence + Savage silence + Kuva Bramma + exterminate mission equals levels
This is an opinion some ppl won`t like but i`ll say it anyway. Ash needs a revisit and it doesn't matter what anyone else says, stats and ppl`s actions proves he needs one.
I say Ash needs a revisit and ppl say "he`s perfect" and get upset with me but he`s not, Ash has issues most ppl don`t know about.
The reason being because;
· People use two of his augments and helminth 24/7 to the point where they completely ignore the issues of the abilities and act like they are ok.
· The way people use him and talk about him ("oh he can use seeking shuriken to strip armour and can kill lvl 100+ with bs) they can`t see his issues in a general sense.
Look at it this way you have Ash - warframe and you have Ryu - ninja gaiden, if you put Ash in ninja gaiden he would be great probably be even better than Ryu on the other hand if you put Ryu in warframe he will have trouble in that setting.
I was playing Ash and their is something I realised...
Ash can`t deal with hordes of enemies efficiently that`s why most ppl won`t play him. The most effective (fun) way to play him is to play stealthy, he can actually be fun if you play him this way. but wf is a for the most part a horde game and Ash just can`t deal with them so this and other issues with him he needs a revisit.
I have put up a post on the warframe forums called:
EVIDENCE OF WHY ASH NEEDS A REVISIT.
It presents his issues with facts and stats and I give him a revisit that addresses his issues and makes him a much better warframe to play.
Take a look and tell me what you think ON THE POST.
Ash is an assassin not a hoard killer and his kit does fit with that theme. His 4 can kill crowds but maybe slower than others so might as well equip an aoe weapon for that.
@@theelement_c6684 Ok you opinion that`s fine however he still has issues which is a fact. Read the post it`s all there.
Blood Altar would be so much better if it healed based on your max health, rather than just your missing health. Especially since you can stack the effect with overlapping blood altars
As a trinity player, infested mobility is awesome, it’s the only way you will remotely keep up with most players doing speed runs, I don’t think fire walker is as fast, also with link and blessing you already can’t die, so status procs on you don’t matter, and you already armor strip, so fire walker is unnecessary, HOWEVER on anyone aside from trinity, it’s a useless helminth. Also parasitic armor plus rhino charge = over 100,000 over guard on regular star chart. Much higher on steel path, and going into low level missions with 100,000 over guard and a fully forma optimized kuva Brahma is just silly 🎉 Do it for the memes
Guess you hate rhino's roar
its in S tier
Fun fact, atlas's petrify changes enemy resistances
that's dope
Nourish, Roar, Gloom
And then everything else
Well of life is a B Tier ability imo because it does one thing super well that nothing else does: It instant kills thumpers no matter what level with the right (super low investment) build. Cast Well on the thumper and stagger yourself three times. Thumper is now dead. Some would say that killing thumpers isnt the hard part (finding them is) but at high levels they can be super irritating to fight.
fire blast will always full strip as long as 2 or more people in the squad have corrosive projection. probably the greatest armor strip in the game if that circumstance is met
it most definitely is not
@@kyaii radial strip, no enemy cap like Terrify has, basically zero strength investment required, radius scales off both range and duration, procs status. Only downsides would be that it costs 75 instead of 50 like most other armor strip helminths and the procs might mess up heat inherit
Just some constructive criticism, test out the ability thoroughly to understand it.
You're unintentionally spreading misinformation.
Fire Blast doesn't work the way you explained it, it's 75% per cast, meaning you must it twice to completely remove armor.
I have it on my Rhino Prime and it works as intended, it's excellent for armor stripping and crowd control, no energy issues at 160 efficiency, 266 strength, 100 range, 70 duration.
I only have 150 max energy and it's never an issue.
Huh?
I know how fire Blast works, how was I misleading in anyway.
Regardless relative to Terrify it sucks for a whole lot of other reasons
Nice work )
Mesa Prime with pillage is just amazing. Nukem all
Thx for the info very nice
Blood alter on Nidus makes him unkillable with the amount of healing it does.
He’s already unkillable, especially with archon shards.
@@ValanxWF I need to get those still. I've been slacking
Didn't know that augment for silence was there but that's a good tip ty
Harrow's condemned is easily very good against infected compared to pillage, you bring pillagte in infected missions and you know you made a mistake. With Condemned at least it works everywhere, downside is if the ennemy fly you cry. Baruuk with Condemned is my go against infected, he doesn't die to anything in the game, also lower casting cost is nice
Neither are good options are Infested but does that matter much? They die to anything and deal practically no damage
He saw it coming
No Roar? Which is S tier.
If you subsume resonator do you get to have the mandachord for that warframe and be able to pick the song or is it just the last song octavia has equipped is what your resonator will be?
Oh and nice nova! 👌
i belive no u dont
Before I see this,every grouping ability needs to by B or higher,grouping abilitys are just way to good because there never bad to have
"really high energy cost " it just feels like too many people run without efficiency or dont know that depending on where you put the ability you subsume will change how much it coast to use
what
that is not true at all
Bruh I thought Ash was god tier back in the day when I found out how strong armor stripping was lol
holy shit you get a like and sub just for not giving me an annoying intro+pointless disclaimer thank you
Spellbind is S tier because of colorful butterflies
thx for another banger
A savage silence Ash (swap out his 1) will murder whole screens of enemies
13:23 and you are wrong for saying that. it has not just great range, it has the best range of all area armor strip, it also can full strip with 2 casts at 100% str. that alone makes it an amazing armor strip. not just that but, it can even strip in 2 casts with as low as 67 str. which is a weird number, sure, but its still alot higher than most other abilities.
look at pillage, sure it works on shields, and recover your own, but it need ALOT of str investment to be a good armor strip. and the range? base 8m. that's less than 1/3rd the range of fireblast. in other words, you would need 300% range with pillage and it would still offer less range than fireblast. seriously, with overextended+cunning drift+augur reach+ stretch, it would still not have the range of NO MOD fireblast. its such a massive diference that you could put a fully upgraded narrow minded on fireblast, and it still would have MORE RANGE than base pillage.
people get too hung up on comparing it to ember's version, when in fact, fireblast is an amazing armor strip choice for pretty much any frame that cant have more than base str invested. so if you have a full tank inaros for example, with no str investment, put fireblast on him and call it a day.
Pillage scales off duration with every second equating to 20 meters of expansion so no, it doesn't beat it there.
Fire blast requires LOS, doesn't work on knockdown resistant enemies and doesn't have ANY of the added benefits Pillage does.
It is most definitely worse
@@kyaiiand can't strip already knocked down enemy's and is capped at 75% strip unlike every other strip
That’s the reason I never used ash’s armor strip
I can’t believe yall were actually recommending that garbage 🤣
41:00 Ivara's Quiver gives Stealth arrow and Noise Arrow. The Noise Arrow is completely useless, but the stealth arrow is amazing on SUPPORT frames. Or frames like Banshee that could use that little extra survivability. Also, i don't know why your comparing it to the Huras Kubrow as it's literally the same thing. You can spam abilities, you can use silent weapons. Anything noisy will break the stealth. But it's easily B tier but meant for Support.
Limbo, and Revenant in my opinion should be F tier.
Eh, dedicating an entire helminth slot to it with the existence of better survivability options and shield gating for squishy frames is not a great thing.
Huras Kubrow is a companion that allows you to use entirely different things. I don't remember exactly how I compare them but Huras is just better.
@@kyaii well stalk and ghost break on weapon attack and needs enemys near
cloak arrow which u can shot ur own sentinel has a duration range and iirc doesnt break
I main Nezha and I have a silly build focused on his 3 were I use Empower before casting it so it boost the damage absorption, it's not that bad actually xD
I have a silly Citrine build where I have empower ... with an empowered sentry and throwing my empowered crystal at an enemy, I just mentally hear the metal pipe falling sound effect on impact
Haven't watched the entire thing but the Ash one was pretty much the only reliable armor strip before de change how armor stripping works. I do agree now its pretty much outclassed. Also, I see rhino on the tierlist but seem to be skipped in the video.
not the only one, nyx was shuriken but better in every single way. it shot multiples as opposed to just 2. it gave CC on targets hit and best of all NO MOD REQUIRED.
@@marcosdheleno i forgot to clarify that i meant ash armor strip as helminth when mentioning it as the only reliable one before armor strip buffs.
I was a bit annoyed when you put fractured blast in C, but then you went and put condemn also in C, when it is a super cheap, fast, and easy way to shield gate while also having great CC. Throwing it down a hallway locks down that entire hallway. If you honestly can't see why it's so good, there is a problem. Some people would rather the enemies stop moving than needing them to be armor stripped. Condemn and pillage both give you shields, but one is more of a crowd control tool, when the frame you're playing wants more CC. For late game players, having high damaging weapons isn't that hard to get, so the value of locking enemies down versus making them easier to kill is much much more desirable to many. Also with the new update changing shield gating, condemn has even more value and should see even more usage. For being free shield gating alone, it deserves A tier.
Where is Roar? 🤔
Does the shield gating rework impact your opinion on rebuild Shields.
nope, still sucks
@@kyaii good to know, lol. I never used it, and it didn't look good, but I never got in depth with shield gating and the intricacies, so I was curious
Silence his silence
Non related with the tier list, but can you show me the colors that you're using with your Khora? it look sick
you are supposedly talking objectively about a lot of stuff, but you cant then talk about "how x or y" is underrated, while ranking the default helminth abilities higher than decoy liek XD, like, good video, (although as some comments said, ranking subsumes in general is quite... odd because every warframe has its own needs) but like, idk, the abilities with niche uses are still good withing their niche, like, idk banishing a loki decoy for the that thing of drawing agro agresively away or the healing the defense target with garudas blood altar, idk, like, feels very biased for it to be "an objective tierlist"
Can you make a 2024 updated version of this? Idk if I missed it or not
Honestly silence is outsmarted by shooting gallery
Hard disagree, Silence is a 1 time stun.
There's a lot more reasons too.