that really depends on if Orange Piccolo is on par with MUI or TUI. if he's equal to MUI then Piccolo wins. But im more of the mind he's on par with TUI Goku as TUI seems to be Goku's new path and current full power he can pull out whenever. If Piccolo is on par with TUI then Piccolo loses as he has equal power to Goku, but Goku has the speed and reactions of UI meaning he's just simply operating at a faster level than Piccolo.
@@MrJokerSenpaibut tui goku beats mui goku, this guy got it wrong, it's the other way around, if piccolo is equal to tui he wins but if he is equal to mui he loses
MUI Has more power but less control over will, the whole concept of it is to let the body and instincts to do everything. TUI has a little less power but gives the users some will, even if the body and instinct can react, and the reason why TUI is more effective is because mixing instinct with skill is more effective than pure instinct. But again, skill and power isn't the same thing, a good example is SSJ 2 Caulifla VS base Goku in the T.O.P, Caulifla was obviously more powerful, but goku had the skill to simply play with her and use her power against her. that is why TUI is concidered better than MUI.
My logic here is that in terms of outright combat ability, MUI is superior. It is Goku using every ounce of his power at the highest level of refinement that he can manage, in tandem with his autonomous movement. TUI though is easier to maintain because Goku doesn't have to fight his nature to use it. Because of this, his energy is easier to wield and doesn't get away from him as much, meaning he bleeds less energy trying to maintain the mindset needed to keep that form active. So MUI is stronger, but TUI is more consistent, and Goku is wise enough to understand that he's better off favoring consistency and scouting out for a unique path to strength of his own rather than just trying to get by ripping the angels' whole style.
Yeah it's kind of like ssj2 vs ssj3. For a while, ssj2 was the default form. Ssj3 was used only when a spike of power was needed. But ultimately, it's not an efficient form.
I thought this was obvious. Whis tells him at the beginning of the arc that they want to find a way for Goku to use UI in base better and to save Silver for any big problems. TUI is that form, and that means that Silver is still better.
Not really. It's then shown Gokj was using a limited amount of UI in base, God, and Blue. This is what Whis was speaking of. TUI is a large portion of UI, almost silver. Not "base". Then Amping with Saiyan Battle spirit.
@@Telarius You'd think but that's just what Goku was doing to train. This arc was one big training arc: Goku and Vegeta are given instructions on how to grow, and they hit a level of competence before going through trials that lead to them truly learning the lesson. Goku even told Whis when he was driving away with Monaito that he didn't actually finish learning what Whis told him. UI Sign also isn't really a transformation, it's the transition between base and complete Ultra Instinct, and Whis even says during the instructions to Goku that because Goku thinks of UI as a transformation he's limiting himself and so the training that Goku needs to learn is to use UI in base and save Silver for when he needs to go all out. That's why True UI comes as an epiphany, because he had been training to use UI in base the whole time, but had been transforming to get closer to Silver while using UI and had to abide by the rule of always letting his emotions wash over him instead of influencing him. This was less than ideal, because in all forms other than UI emotions help because Saiyans gain power from being emotional. But he was ignoring Sign which can be influenced by emotions and is closer to his base state.
They should've never handicapped MUI after the Moro arc - a sign of bad writing. They should've just had Goku refine MUI and/or have him learn other godly techniques.
They should have had him fight in blue against the clone using the ui technique and lose. Not use the silver hair. At this point I think the problem with silver is that a) he wasted ui time in weaker forms. He kinda has a time limit depending on what the plot requires. B) I think he was in the wrong mindset in white haired
They never handicapped it. The name is the problem, not the writing. The form was never "mastered", Goku just unlocked the full version of UI. Making the form have weaknesses makes perfect sense, becaue it would've been absolute nonsense if goku had just learned how to perfectly wield a power that TRILLION year old gods can't even master.
@@thefoundation4943yeah stamina is drained heavily with tui but mui has both a high stamina drain and is hard to keep at peak power as it’s basically impossible to be completely calm all the way through a life or death battle
This is exactly what i've said all along, MUI is very much superior to TUI, TUI is just Omen being amped by Goku's saiyan battle emotions to give it an amp while making it a more natural state to himself. But MUI is still the strongest form of UI that Goku can use its just hard to keep his heart calm which nerfs MUI, Goku even slips back into the Silver hair to beat Gas even after he makes TUI which he wouldn't do if MUI was worse than TUI.
MUI Is stronger but not in goku's case cause he as a Saiyan fights better with his emotion and TUI makes It possible because Is 50% omen and 50% complete, mui would be stronger than tui if he had mastered as whis does
Ur wrong. It'd not exclusive as to "he slipped back" as remember. The main quality about MUI is its fully automatic. You gain max speed. Where as TUI you sacrifice some or that automatic movement. (Speed/agility) for increases power. (Saiyan emotion amp)
TUI is objectively stronger. When Black Frieza first appeared, Goku instantly went TUI instead of MUI. It would make no sense if he didn't go into his strongest form, why would he use a weaker form to fight black frieza?
@@jantheking7028 Because Goku cant use MUI's true power at will? He needs to be in a state of tranquil heart, its why TUI even exists lmao. MUI (calm heart) > TUI > MUI (no calm heart) > Omen. Goku when frieza showed up just jumped into his current full power, which was TUI because he cant access MUI with his current emotions.
@MrJokerSenpai Its clearly implied he's taking a power NERF. By using Mui (disregarding all saiyan emotion) To be tranquil of hear.) The benefit being he still gains power. Just not as much. But he benefits by both attacking and defending autonomously. TUI (the story is trying to essentially push using full MUI powers but at all times like Angel's do) Has more raw power. But you forfeit the ability of perfect automatic attacking. The narrative has separated MUI and Saiyan emotion. Normal Saiyan = All emotion GOD = perfect Tranquit heart MUI = Giving up saiyan emotion for tranquil heart. TUI = Mixing both. (You lose an aspect of UI for emotion amp)
I think the biggest thing separating UE/UI from Goku and Vegetas' previous peaks is that these forms are not only better suited for their individual personalities and goals, but also that they make far better use of their actual peak powers at that point. Whis keeps telling them that merely focusing on their physical strength and the like won't get them much farther at this point. Vegeta even acknowledges this with super hero, taking a more rational and focused approach to his training via meditation. He notes that Jiren wasn't actually much stronger than them in terms of pure physical ability, but instead was just that much superior in terms of his stability and manipulation of his ki. I think this is a good direction to take and also does well to explain why they still don't seem close to surpassing Beerus in the manga. The problem isn't that they aren't near his power; the problem is that Beerus is just that much better than them in terms of the manipulation of his ki, and also in being true to his own nature. He's able to bring out so much more of his power and maximize its usage on a level that other destroyers are still figuring out, let alone Goku and Vegeta who have only been handling god ki for a few short years now. If Goku and Vegeta want to keep getting stronger, they need to hone the use of their forms to a point where those forms are just their natural state. They need to become 'whole' by mastering not just their powers, but the mental states needed to bring that power out to its highest value. Only when they surpass Beerus in THAT way will they be able to actually surpass him.
@@MhesaL1718Except that's literally what Goku had been doing up until that point. Whenever Goku gets a grasp on something, he's able to take it apart and dissect it, understand what makes it tick, then eventually rearrange it into something slightly or even drastically new. He was able to immediately learn the Kamehameha, then eventually used it in ways it wasn't intended like from his feet as a propellant, and eventually developed the Super Kamehameha. He was trained by several different gods in the original DB, and quickly surpassed all of them shortly after his training with each of them. More recently there's been talks about how there's evidence that everyone has been using a more efficient form of Kaioken this entire time, using words that Goku speaks in the original Japanese manga as evidence, which if true, not only did Goku master a technique that King Kai was unable to, _he made it better._ Then there's the Cell Saga, where he's able to _instantly dissect everything there is to know about the various SSJ1 sub-forms,_ when up until that point there has been _zero documentation on the form,_ through nothing but raw intuition and understanding of his own body. SSJ3, as many flaws as it had when it first debuted, is another example of Goku's ability to dissect and reconfigure abilities. Up until DBS, Goku was not only a technical genius capable of understanding what's taught to him near instantly, _he was a pioneer._ While I don't fully agree that DBS is the worst thing done to Dragonball since GT that many people are peddling, it _does_ feel like Toei and even Toriyama has forgotten about this aspect of Goku.
I've had this opinion lying in my head the moment I saw it in the manga. MUI is still heavily superior to TUI. It was implied that TUI is just UI Sign being enhanced by Goku's fighting spirit to give it a power boost to make it a more natural state to Goku. MUI is still the strongest form, and before you tell me "MUI takes a bigger toll on Goku's body", while that may be true, that only nerfs it by a little bit. Another thing you need to remember is that MUI isn't mastered in the sense that Goku has harnessed all its power, it's mastered in that Goku can use it at will, meaning that Goku still has room to improve and use MUI at it's full potential without stress, further proving that it's stronger. Whis made this very evident at the fact that he recommended Goku to use TUI first and to "use the silver haired form as a last resort" since the greater power of MUI equally stresses Goku's body and it makes sense because MUI IS STRONGER THAN TUI.
Basically Silver UI is stronger, but Goku gets weaker while using it as time goes on due to not having a calm heart, while True UI is weaker but the power level is stable and Goku can use his emotions without his strength dropping. And once Goku learns how to keep his heart calm in the silver form, he'll be able to keep getting stronger as time goes on
@@gentlepeeps3351 he struggles to keep his heart calm, that's why he quickly loses power while using the silver UI, his heart gets less and less calm as the battle goes on
This is something that I despise since the Initial Appearance. They don’t UNDERSTAND that True U.I. Is essentially U.I. Sign but with MORE CONTROL. He could not currently control Perfected Ultra Instinct Or Mastered Ultra Instinct, due to the emotional withdrawal that ties to his power.
Jiren “attacks that exploit are not true strength” Whis “I’m a different life form, find your own version of of UI” we know from the angel lore that they’re a race that is always at peace, calm and tranquility is part of their very nature, they’re not a race that’s made to dominant, that is why when they fight they don’t just strike, they strike when it’s guaranteed blow because their bodies automatically studies the situation and adapts. But Goku is on the other hand is a saiyan and will never be an angel, he’s a species that thrive on rage, their adaptation is via rage so for Goku to emulate what angel does he has to discard his saiyan nature be angel for a little a little but copying will never make him an angel so what if the conditions to discard his saiyan nature? That is exactly why Whis told Goku to find his variant of UI, the that fits his nature, the one that won’t depend upon certain conditions to work, it will always be there when he needs because he himself Goku the saiyan is there. Since saiyans thrive on rage and sort of survival of the fittest by nature, they’re made to be dominant and offensive as opposed to angels what Goku was copying. That is how TUI came about, it is true to his nature, using the rage and his offensive nature, that’s why this version of UI is more like auto attack than auto dodge, it is a body fighting to exercise dominance, to win to survive, using whatever attack that working, that is why we have a version of ultra instinct that is shooting mouth blasts an attack that Goku would not normally use, if he was to use his brain to decide his pattern of attacks, he only used it because his body required him to and it was an attack that had a best chance of landing
I think true ultra instinct allowing him to use his saiyan nature during battle will lead to him being able to stack rage buffs onto its form (ie: supersaiyan + TUI). So in terms of which is better, MUI is probably still his best until he learns to add multipliers to TUI.
What ppl don’t get is that silver UI Goku (MUI) is the closest to how an angel would fight. Angels are the strongest beings that practice martial arts (well they don’t really practice it, they’re just born with it). However, sustaining that level of pure instinct is not something Goku can do on a whim like turning ssj at this point in the story. He has to surrender fully to his instincts, which doesn’t come naturally to him like it does for angels, therefore making it incredibly hard to do it consistently. I still think that MUI Goku from the TOP is the strongest we’ve seen him, not bc of his actual power level but bc that’s when he was the closest to fighting like an angel would. MUI vs Granola/Gas was not the same as vs Jiren, he wasn’t fully locked in his instincts , letting thoughts of battle planning seep through as well as not having a calm heart/mind, making it not as complete as in the TOP. True UI is just a version of UI that fits more to his true self, making it a more reliable way of fighting for him but not a more efficient one
or it could be that goku was never able to draw out full power of mui since he doesnt have the calm mind of angels..there has been no scan that ever said that moro arc granolah arc mui goku < top mui goku.
@@mdjunad5771 exactly, that’s what I meant by surrendering to his instincts, he has to be calm of mind and heart to let his complete inner instinct come out, or else he’s just using it during certain moments of a fight and using his battle iq (mind) whenever else, which is a no go for mui. I just think that during the top that’s when he was the closest to having a fully calm mind and heart, not putting him to the angelic level, but just closer than when he was fighting granola
@@SaneU_c I dont think in top he was see because he had just unlocked mui at that moment and he barely understood how to handle it and that moment so him being closer then but not now doesnt seem right because he has more knowledge about that power at this moment...also how the show has progressed up until now saiyans have always been getting stronger with their new powers arc after arc.
Y'all are slow AF, Goku's PUI in the Moro arc is the strongest, that's the point where he didn't have to worry about the stamina issue because it had already gone, it even showed insane feats like hardening the user's body and breaking a fully healed up Moro 73's hand. Goku from TOP didn't even know how to sustain the completed UI and Goku's PUI during the Granolah arc was completely nerfed as stated by Toyotaro himself.
@@raiden8991 see goku's power level with mui in the granolah arc was higher than that of the previous arc's...toyotaro just brought up additional drawbacks for it in the granolah arc
Contrary to what other people have said, I believe the main reason True UI Goku is currently stronger is that Mastered UI requires much more base energy to control the form. At Goku's current power level, this isn't worth it in terms of output power. However, once he manages to minimize the static energy requirement from MUI or becomes powerful enough to make the power requirement minimal, he will transition to MUI.
We finally have a complex and multifaceted form in dragon ball along with ultra ego and db fans call it bad writing because they cant understand it and have to have somebody (most likely a RUclipsr) explain it too them. Ah Dragon ball fans
We should think of sign as the new set base on an ultra instinct level. Where the sign version strengthens the silver version, while being in the silver version polishes the use of it. Like how base versions of each character has to train without transformations to make those transformations way stronger than if you trained in those transformations.
Obviously. “True Ultra Instinct” isn’t even an official name. People just misread the article where it was written “his true Ultra Instinct” instead of “his True Ultra Instinct”. Since “true” wasn’t in capital letters, it wasn’t part of the name, but an adjective that was in reference to what Whis was saying in regards to finding the UI that better suits Goku. So, it’s in fact just UI Sign.
it really depends on the opponent and the situation for example.. vegeta stated on beerus planet jiren wasnt strong over all but his controll of his ki at his base form allowed him to save energy to fight everyone on his own making him not being to be read by his opponents easily and allowing him to land devasting attacks because his ki was calm and wasn't leaking like the saiyans And when goku's heart and ki was calm he was able to overwhelm jiren and land decisive attacks on him, but Gas was too strong overall for gokus mind and ki to remain calm leading him to use a different approach a form that could allow his body to move freely at the same time be on the aggressive side of fighting instead of mui's defence at base and dodging .
I’ve ALWAYS think Tui is an omen transformation, but however I do think it’s a new power up but not a new transformation(obviously). I don’t really think it’s weaker than MUI because when Goku and Vegeta’s were fighting Gas they both lost. After Gas defeated Vegeta, Goku proceeded to save Vegeta and power up using omen plus using to control his emotions which made(according to dragon ball) stronger than mui, which where Goku Tui said he’s slightly stronger than Gas which the Gas he defended MUI + UE fighting at once.
As öater shown when Gas powered up, he beat TUI and knocked Goku out, allowing him to be Emotionless and thus tap into PUI's True Potential PUI (Emotionless) > TUI > PUI (Emotional)
@@hoshiryubefore Gas powered up he beated both mui and UE Vegeta, and when Goku goes Tui he beated gas even Goku said that he was slightly stronger before gas powered up and beated Tui Goku.
MUI should technically be called Complete Ultra Instinct or CUI because in the anime Beerus literally says "There it is, complete in all its glory, Autonomous Ultra Instinct" or they could have it just UI and UI Sign/Omen, but that just doesn't sound right. Also I never though of Vegeta's UE in that way so great video i agree wholeheartedly
1. In the moro arc when beerus said that goku is tuning in those moves more and more it meant that he is getting used to those moves 2. whis told when ui is honed to this extent the body gets sturdier as necessary it means that when ui is using about 80% of goku's power it increses it to a 90 or even 100 when its required...that statement didnt meant that goku keeps getting stronger with mui infinitely as he uses it 3. Goku has never been able to use silver haired form to its fullest because goku is at end of the day is a mortal unlike the angels he feels emotions even in his mui state which is why he could never use the form to its full potential...even vegeta told goku that his mui seems no different than before when they were fighting Gas which means goku was indeed using his mui without any drop in his power. So saying that mui is moro and top arc wa stronger than the mui that faced gas makes no sense. Goku asked WHIS how can he better use ultra instinct he cant keep his mind as calm as the angels...which meant that goku wasnt satisfied with the calmness level of his ultra instinct that he had on top, moro and in granolah arc and he wanted to be even more calmer to use the silver haired form better to which whis told him to not follow him as he is a different life form and asked him to find his own way 4. So goku came up with his own tui that allows goku to fight the way he should thats why it enabled him to better use his power because ui isnt aboout following others to use that power its about being one with your true self. Currently goku doesnt have the calmness level of the angels which is why he cant draw out more power from mui..but eventually he will. 5. Gas and granolah wished to be the strongest in the universe which means they were even stronger than mui goku...however with tui goku went beyond them. so tui is stronger than current mui
@@wangawangekilundu3489 what I am trying to say is that Goku has never ever been able to use the maximum power of mui even when he faced jiren and moro...but when he fixes it he eventually will
@@hoshiryu Go by the Japanese texts. Kansen can also mean perfected. Also, I believe that the manga and anime are different continuities. I wouldn't put too much thought into it because it's all fiction anyway.
Anime UI is a lot different from manga UI since we see him actively using emotion and getting amped because of it against Jiren like when his friends were threatened. I would say that UI Sign actually has this need to be calm more than UI since we see Goku in the first fight trying to access more power when he first got the form by getting pissed off but then lost the form getting the whole "remember this heat" quote from Jiren before getting blasted away.
Why are you keep calling it completed ultra instinct? The silver hair UI official name is Mastered Ultra Instinct. It is literally the title on episode 129
Anime Goku has many statements that prove Goku surpassed Beerus and Belmod, or just all the G.O.Ds, the manga still has beerus be way above Goku. People who say TUI is stronger just merge the two canons, which doesn't work.
Usually or when Goku fights his opponent it’s a good idea if he fights his opponent in his base or lesser forms. All without showing his true power. But Goku doesn’t always do this, look at what happened when he fought Cell, Gohan was his strongest warrior and greatest Fighter and rather then give Gohan the edge he gave cell a Sensu Bean. Sometimes Goku is to confident and lets his guard down. In the fight with Jiren Ultra Instinct was supposed to be the thing Goku uses to Gauge his opponents strength and attacks. MUI is supposed to be used when Goku wants to fight to defeat and stop his opponent. Ultra instinct is to learn his opponents abilities, tactics and strategy then formulate a plan to fight them. Ultra Instinct is to build his strength and adapt to the fight or fighters or evolve beyond his opponents level. MUI is to finish the fight and give him if he needs to a little more boost so he can complete the fight as the ultimate victor
Ur point is that silver hair UI goku can only be utilized when his heart is calm but we literally saw him rage out in that form and get stronger back in the TOP when jiren was about to boom his friends unless they retcon that
No that Emotion Boost in the Anime is ONLY FOR THE ANIME Continuity Since UI Forms work differently in the Manga then they do in the Anime Heck in the Manga Goku in UI lost to Jiren, unlke the Anime, and then he and Vegeta had to fight Jiren together, after being punched out of UI
Before you call me dumb, here’s why I think (IMO not bias) TUI is stronger that MUI TUI was able to slightly surpass gas because goku was getting a lot of hit in gas, and make him use more of his life span just to surpass TUI goku. MUI goku was struggling to beat gas and he needed UE Vegeta’s help to overcome gas, but they was still struggling (UE vegeta was evolving though, but he gotten overwhelmed by battle damage) but TUI surpassed UE and MUI because he was able to surpass gas (barely) and make him use more of his lifespan. (Remember, Gas was cursed to be the strongest in the Universe. So to be the strongest, Gas needs to sacrifice more of his lifespan to surpass TUI goku.) I’m not biased or didn’t read the manga. I’m just saying my opinion.
Thanks for the great info.... so how I have it in my head. You get: UI Sign(Omen) then you get True UI which is the perfected usage of Sign and lastly you get Mastered/Perfected/Completed (Silver haired form) UI which we saw in the Tournament of Power. Is this the correct way of understanding it? That means the strongest form must be if Goku uses True UI ontop of Perfected Ultra Instinct? Let me know if im wrong thx!
The fact everything Goku gone through to “perfect” Ultra Instinct in Moro sage was completely a joke and such a wasted potential. I still find it hard to believe that granola is somehow to win just because all he does was catch Goku off guard when he tricked Goku with his clones.
Tldr: MUI is objectively superior when used by someone who can mantain a calm heart during a battle, this however doesn't fit at all the battle style of Goku, so using it is incredibly complicated for him
In the anime goku used his emotions in mui to completely overpower full power jiren you can maybe call that true mui and if goku can achieve that in the manga with mui he will be unstoppable 👀
Anime MUI is different then Manga PUI tho They are simialr and have the same Effects, but are 2 seperate and different Forms Like how SSB in the Anime and Manga are different too
@@hoshiryuso goku in the manga has perfected ultra instinct instead of mastered ultra instinct? Or he has both forms but perfected ultra instinct is more powerful?
The only argument that can write TUI over MUI is the fact that goku can mix at least ssg w/ UI. And blue kaioken. I would not be suprised if goku completing the tri force using “ultra super sayian god super sayian kaioken” would outperform MUI goku. Unless goku is specifically sharpening his UI only. “USsjBlueK” is like 3 stages farther than what goku can actually do. -never used kaioken w/ UI -never used blue w/ UI -let alone all 3 at once. Shit is basically baryon mode for goku. UI doesn’t even last an hour. Goku would have a shorter timer than fusions.
That doesn’t mean it’s stronger lol. Tui is just ui omen amped by battle emotions. The reason he uses tui is because it’s easier to use compared to mui and a lot more natural. Would you rather fight at 100% but risk losing that power any moment or fight at 60% in a stable condition? He even briefly went back to mui when fighting against Gas which is something he wouldn’t do if tui was stronger.
@@hippydragonnslayerxdlmaohi3921 I don't think MUI is the 100% short power burst type of thing, It's more about playing within the rules and finding weaknesses TUI is evolving like UE which creates it's own rules of fighting and MUI got rekt by Granolah that didn't even awaken his 2nd sharingan, MUI also got rekt by Jiren in the anime, MUI only seems to fit angels. so there's arguments from both sides for which is better. we just need wait and see for more details
@@sparking4630 It’s pretty obvious MUI is better in raw power, however it’s just very inconvenient to use and also this was ignoring that Goku was getting a bunch of power amps multiple times throughout the arc.
@@hippydragonnslayerxdlmaohi3921 It is obvious using what logic? The fact that he lost using Perfected Ultra Instinct and won using TUI? The fact that when he fought Frieza and hopped into his strongest state it was TUI instead of Perfected Ultra Instinct. Also, where does the term MUI come from? It was stated he completed the form, and was never stated it was Mastered.
@@voidtempering8700 yall mfs are slow whis states goku should use the silver hair form as a last resort. Why would he say that if it wasn’t the strongest form. The issue is he can’t stay calm enough to go deeper into the form so he resorts to using omen.
The mui sharpness increasing is due to him getting more and more used to his form however we do see a fore shadowing to its massive power drain with it being shown mui requires more energy than blue needing uubs power showing it’s less energy efficient then blue which isn’t that great since blue isn’t amaizing pg energy efficient
Enlighten me on this though. It took Mastered UI to beat Jiren and Moro, and then Goku fought Gas who is stronger than Jiren and Moro due to wishing to be the strongest fighter in the universe. Mastered UI wasn’t doing anything against Gas, until goku uses True UI which does more damage to Gas. So how is Mastered UI stronger in this context? Did I miss something ?
What I would like for Dragonball is a massive time skip where the characters we know exist only in legend and we get all new characters with low power levels once again. I miss the days of adventure and hand to hand martial arts. When blowing up buildings and being faster than sound was impressive.
I think they misunderstand it’s was only that power probably when he was fighting Gas because… He wasn’t using up all his energy at once and… he could use his emotions freely during battle without having to have the final MUI form conflict with his emotions. Thus burning less energy and utilizing more of his own unique style that the MUI form would conflict with. Usually if he fully masters an ability the secondary form is usually more powerful then the first. Usually, aka SSJ3 drains to much power and SSJ or SSJ2 to don’t drain as much energy as SSJ3. So MUIs weakness is that Goku had difficulty with using MUI for long periods of time and it conflicted with his emotions but UI sign/omen allowed him to use his own unique style and utilize less energy and drains less stamina. But yes just like SSJ3 is more powerful so is MUI. However they both have their negative drawbacks aka energy toll and energy drain
Bro, No Goku’s Mui didn’t improve as much, UE Vegeta literally said to Goku that his UI was no different than before, which MAKES Goku to FUTURE improve his ui aka Tui Goku, and "able to control his emotions" wasn’t that goal for Goku, it’s getting his heart clam Tui still didn’t get his heart clam as Goku stated. Goku said that he uses omen because he can control his emotions better(which mean if he tries to do it in mui it wouldn’t really work).
@@NightmareZzKI think Goku is supposed to evolve his last abilities to perfect his MUI Form in the Future as well as the True Control Ultra Instinct none silver black hair form
@@moredsea Yeah, his goal is to get his heart clam(which the angels DO have their heart clam plus mui), generally Mui is complete and far stronger than Uio, but Goku’s current Mui heart is not clam, which is why Tui is better
Yikes dude. Just going on the title and thumbnail here, power wise true ultra instinct combining his emotional power explicitly made him stronger than he was before even using MUI. At best, this is clickbait. Power wise, TUI is superior even if inferior when it comes to reaction speed and perfect movement.
There is a problem with the naming MUI is the Silver Haired state for the Anime There is no MUI in the Manga, only PUI, as it's often called Perfected Ultra Instinct, by both Whis and Goku Mastered Ultra Instinct is the Name Toriyama gave the Silver Haired form for the Anime Then there is Completed UI or CUI for the Games, usually just called UI tho
Yeah idk anymore bro. They really made UI way too overcomplicated for no reason. At this point I would've just preferred SSJ Blue 2. I still think MUI should be the strongest variant cause it's the coolest looking 😎
Of course! Mastered Ultra Instinct is still stronger than True Ultra Instinct. But as per Whis, TUI allows Goku to use his Saiyan Instincts along with it, which in turn conserves more stamina than MUI.
The dumbest part of the writing of the Granolah saga is Goku literally punching harder as True Ultra Instinct as it was shown he could hurt Gas more as TUI than he could as MUI. That's why people say TUI > MUI in terms of raw power. They should have written it to have different abilities.
It's funny that they so quickly retconned the silver version to not work when he's angry. His anger boosting him in the ToP when Jiren threw an energy blast at the spectators just to be removed later is silly. Then again... where would they go from that ultimate power if they're going to continue the story? He needs new forms or else it's time for Dragonball to end.
Goku was never angry in the manga so it isn't a retcon. The manga is very different from the anime for exemple in the t.o.p it was gohan who was fighting kefla in the manga and not goku 👍
@matrixneo2412 How is that not a retcon? The anime was first in this instance and was written by Toriyama. The anime is canon, and changing the canon is a retcon, is it not?
(Dragon ball super (anime) is produced by Toei. They have a writing staff and directors who, just as the manga, ask Toriyama for outlines on how the show should go so no toriyama didn't write the show but both series are technically canon) hope it help too 👍
i want goku and vegeta to go in the time chamber and do like a grade 4 ssj 1 where they are in theyre ultra forms always ( might not work for ultra ego )
@@ninetailedara3802gas wasn’t "burning through energy" that was the gas who after he beated UE Vegeta, and Goku literally said that he’s slightly stronger than gas in this Tui form
@@ninetailedara3802 that makes no sense. Gas was fine at that point. He only started decaying and so on when he used more power taking more years from his life. He was just fine during the fight. He easily beat UE and MUI Goku. TUI is clearly stronger than MUI. It's Gokus ultra instinct. If it was stronger why did he go to TUI instead of MUI against frieza? Cause TUI is his strongest form. The fight with Gas is proof enough. TUI surpasses MUI easily.
This aged well. Ch 103 literally states Silver Hair UI is the strongest. I bet the writers saw the debates online and threw that in the chapter to settle the delusion. 😂
Idk if Mui Goku ch 103 is stronger or not, but even if he is Tui was still stronger than the mui from the granolah arc and yes I KNOW Tui Goku IS ui sign
I think mui from granolah arc is MUCH stronger than the mui from Moro arc, because after the Moro arc Goku learns how to use UI at all time instead of using it as a transformation.
@@NightmareZzK it was state If im not mistaken that it doesn’t make the form it self stronger thats just for him to get use it and be able to use it out of his for so he can maintain it longer which wasn’t a problem during the moro arc
@@ImJusSha it wasn’t just that, in the Moro arc Goku uses ui as a transformation, but now before the granolah arc, he’s learned how to use ui at all time, but uses mui as his last resort, it should be stronger
Ig I can agree to some extent but there’s a few things wrong The MUI in the Moro and Granolah Arcs are technically identical. Goku just discovered more of its weaknesses by the time the Granolah arc came around And on that note I’m inclined to say the power boost gained from merging emotions with Omen proved to be higher than the power boost between Omen to MUI Which in that case would make TUI the stronger form, if you wanna consider it a separate form
Goku was weak against granolah because he used ui in all his forms, and that tired him out and THEN against gas he wasn’t calm because he had his identity crisis. If Goku just randomly uses Mui right now, it will be stronger than TUI unlike how you make it seem saying Goku will probably use TUI more
I did say TUI as a form wmhas veen displayed to have a higher multiplier but MUI is better in litterally everything else from skill to combat etc. Its like comparing kaioken ×60 to super Saiyan
It’s common sense that silver haired was stronger gas even flat out says that to goku and goku dosent deny it he just says in order to use silver he needs to be calm and he wasn’t calm at the moment ui omen allows him to use his emotions with ui which created tui really ain’t no diff from reg ui omen except he can use emotions literally it
For goku as of rn? No mui is a form he can not use to its greatest, while his true saiyan instinct sign allows him to be more free with his emotions. So saying mui for goku is stronger rn is incorrect. Eventually mui will be stronger or he will continue to make his own UI
One question tho... True ultra instinct uses your emotions to your benefit to make you stronger right...? Like isn't that exactly what super Saiyan does or am I just under thinking it here 🤨
different power path, super saiyan is saiyan's natural powerpath while ultra instinct is angel power path. Base Form -> SS1 -> SS2 -> SS3 Base Form -> SSGod -> SSBlue Base Form -> UI Omen -> MUI/PUI Base Form -> Ui Omen -> TUI
TUI Goku Vs Orange Piccolo
Your Thoughts?
that really depends on if Orange Piccolo is on par with MUI or TUI. if he's equal to MUI then Piccolo wins. But im more of the mind he's on par with TUI Goku as TUI seems to be Goku's new path and current full power he can pull out whenever.
If Piccolo is on par with TUI then Piccolo loses as he has equal power to Goku, but Goku has the speed and reactions of UI meaning he's just simply operating at a faster level than Piccolo.
The grill master
@@MrJokerSenpaibut tui goku beats mui goku, this guy got it wrong, it's the other way around, if piccolo is equal to tui he wins but if he is equal to mui he loses
MUI Has more power but less control over will, the whole concept of it is to let the body and instincts to do everything.
TUI has a little less power but gives the users some will, even if the body and instinct can react, and the reason why TUI is more effective is because mixing instinct with skill is more effective than pure instinct.
But again, skill and power isn't the same thing, a good example is SSJ 2 Caulifla VS base Goku in the T.O.P, Caulifla was obviously more powerful, but goku had the skill to simply play with her and use her power against her.
that is why TUI is concidered better than MUI.
Goku easily wins.
My logic here is that in terms of outright combat ability, MUI is superior. It is Goku using every ounce of his power at the highest level of refinement that he can manage, in tandem with his autonomous movement.
TUI though is easier to maintain because Goku doesn't have to fight his nature to use it. Because of this, his energy is easier to wield and doesn't get away from him as much, meaning he bleeds less energy trying to maintain the mindset needed to keep that form active.
So MUI is stronger, but TUI is more consistent, and Goku is wise enough to understand that he's better off favoring consistency and scouting out for a unique path to strength of his own rather than just trying to get by ripping the angels' whole style.
I think his explanation and yours actually go really well together
I don’t see what people find confusing this is the perfect way to explain it.
Yeah it's kind of like ssj2 vs ssj3. For a while, ssj2 was the default form. Ssj3 was used only when a spike of power was needed. But ultimately, it's not an efficient form.
This is a good explanation
@@SunsetEclipse7yeah both fit well together
I thought this was obvious. Whis tells him at the beginning of the arc that they want to find a way for Goku to use UI in base better and to save Silver for any big problems. TUI is that form, and that means that Silver is still better.
Not really. It's then shown Gokj was using a limited amount of UI in base, God, and Blue. This is what Whis was speaking of. TUI is a large portion of UI, almost silver. Not "base". Then Amping with Saiyan Battle spirit.
@@Telarius You'd think but that's just what Goku was doing to train. This arc was one big training arc: Goku and Vegeta are given instructions on how to grow, and they hit a level of competence before going through trials that lead to them truly learning the lesson. Goku even told Whis when he was driving away with Monaito that he didn't actually finish learning what Whis told him.
UI Sign also isn't really a transformation, it's the transition between base and complete Ultra Instinct, and Whis even says during the instructions to Goku that because Goku thinks of UI as a transformation he's limiting himself and so the training that Goku needs to learn is to use UI in base and save Silver for when he needs to go all out.
That's why True UI comes as an epiphany, because he had been training to use UI in base the whole time, but had been transforming to get closer to Silver while using UI and had to abide by the rule of always letting his emotions wash over him instead of influencing him. This was less than ideal, because in all forms other than UI emotions help because Saiyans gain power from being emotional. But he was ignoring Sign which can be influenced by emotions and is closer to his base state.
Thats what i think also mui is when goku feels like he has a serious situation and tui is for most other situations
Being used for bigger problems or when it's needed does not make it stronger overall.
They should've never handicapped MUI after the Moro arc - a sign of bad writing. They should've just had Goku refine MUI and/or have him learn other godly techniques.
They should have had him fight in blue against the clone using the ui technique and lose. Not use the silver hair.
At this point I think the problem with silver is that a) he wasted ui time in weaker forms. He kinda has a time limit depending on what the plot requires. B) I think he was in the wrong mindset in white haired
It was NEVER mastered
They never handicapped it. The name is the problem, not the writing. The form was never "mastered", Goku just unlocked the full version of UI. Making the form have weaknesses makes perfect sense, becaue it would've been absolute nonsense if goku had just learned how to perfectly wield a power that TRILLION year old gods can't even master.
@@jantheking7028 Sure, my guy. You keep telling yourself that 🤦🏽♂️
@@jantheking7028 average dbs fan defending bad writing
MUI is like SSJ3 - huge power boost, huge drain.
TUI is like SSJ2 - Still powerful but easier to stay in and maintain.
It’s the other way around I think I remember goku said TUI drains more power at some point in the gas battle
@@thefoundation4943no, he stated that he can't hols it for long
Since he was new to the State
Tho Sign does use up Stamina faster then PUI does
@@thefoundation4943yeah stamina is drained heavily with tui but mui has both a high stamina drain and is hard to keep at peak power as it’s basically impossible to be completely calm all the way through a life or death battle
@@gentlepeeps3351 shrug I still like mui better 🤷♂️
No lol
Tui consumes much more energy than mui
This is exactly what i've said all along, MUI is very much superior to TUI, TUI is just Omen being amped by Goku's saiyan battle emotions to give it an amp while making it a more natural state to himself. But MUI is still the strongest form of UI that Goku can use its just hard to keep his heart calm which nerfs MUI, Goku even slips back into the Silver hair to beat Gas even after he makes TUI which he wouldn't do if MUI was worse than TUI.
MUI Is stronger but not in goku's case cause he as a Saiyan fights better with his emotion and TUI makes It possible because Is 50% omen and 50% complete, mui would be stronger than tui if he had mastered as whis does
Ur wrong. It'd not exclusive as to "he slipped back" as remember. The main quality about MUI is its fully automatic. You gain max speed. Where as TUI you sacrifice some or that automatic movement. (Speed/agility) for increases power. (Saiyan emotion amp)
TUI is objectively stronger. When Black Frieza first appeared, Goku instantly went TUI instead of MUI. It would make no sense if he didn't go into his strongest form, why would he use a weaker form to fight black frieza?
@@jantheking7028 Because Goku cant use MUI's true power at will? He needs to be in a state of tranquil heart, its why TUI even exists lmao.
MUI (calm heart) > TUI > MUI (no calm heart) > Omen.
Goku when frieza showed up just jumped into his current full power, which was TUI because he cant access MUI with his current emotions.
@MrJokerSenpai Its clearly implied he's taking a power NERF. By using Mui (disregarding all saiyan emotion) To be tranquil of hear.)
The benefit being he still gains power. Just not as much. But he benefits by both attacking and defending autonomously.
TUI (the story is trying to essentially push using full MUI powers but at all times like Angel's do) Has more raw power. But you forfeit the ability of perfect automatic attacking.
The narrative has separated MUI and Saiyan emotion.
Normal Saiyan = All emotion
GOD = perfect Tranquit heart
MUI = Giving up saiyan emotion for tranquil heart.
TUI = Mixing both. (You lose an aspect of UI for emotion amp)
I think the biggest thing separating UE/UI from Goku and Vegetas' previous peaks is that these forms are not only better suited for their individual personalities and goals, but also that they make far better use of their actual peak powers at that point. Whis keeps telling them that merely focusing on their physical strength and the like won't get them much farther at this point. Vegeta even acknowledges this with super hero, taking a more rational and focused approach to his training via meditation.
He notes that Jiren wasn't actually much stronger than them in terms of pure physical ability, but instead was just that much superior in terms of his stability and manipulation of his ki. I think this is a good direction to take and also does well to explain why they still don't seem close to surpassing Beerus in the manga.
The problem isn't that they aren't near his power; the problem is that Beerus is just that much better than them in terms of the manipulation of his ki, and also in being true to his own nature. He's able to bring out so much more of his power and maximize its usage on a level that other destroyers are still figuring out, let alone Goku and Vegeta who have only been handling god ki for a few short years now.
If Goku and Vegeta want to keep getting stronger, they need to hone the use of their forms to a point where those forms are just their natural state. They need to become 'whole' by mastering not just their powers, but the mental states needed to bring that power out to its highest value. Only when they surpass Beerus in THAT way will they be able to actually surpass him.
Its just not logical for someone who trains for a couple decades to surpass a literall god who existed for milenia
@@MhesaL1718Except that's literally what Goku had been doing up until that point.
Whenever Goku gets a grasp on something, he's able to take it apart and dissect it, understand what makes it tick, then eventually rearrange it into something slightly or even drastically new.
He was able to immediately learn the Kamehameha, then eventually used it in ways it wasn't intended like from his feet as a propellant, and eventually developed the Super Kamehameha.
He was trained by several different gods in the original DB, and quickly surpassed all of them shortly after his training with each of them.
More recently there's been talks about how there's evidence that everyone has been using a more efficient form of Kaioken this entire time, using words that Goku speaks in the original Japanese manga as evidence, which if true, not only did Goku master a technique that King Kai was unable to, _he made it better._
Then there's the Cell Saga, where he's able to _instantly dissect everything there is to know about the various SSJ1 sub-forms,_ when up until that point there has been _zero documentation on the form,_ through nothing but raw intuition and understanding of his own body.
SSJ3, as many flaws as it had when it first debuted, is another example of Goku's ability to dissect and reconfigure abilities.
Up until DBS, Goku was not only a technical genius capable of understanding what's taught to him near instantly, _he was a pioneer._ While I don't fully agree that DBS is the worst thing done to Dragonball since GT that many people are peddling, it _does_ feel like Toei and even Toriyama has forgotten about this aspect of Goku.
@@aliesterus1.023 so goku is like a fighting pioneer. whenever he learns something, he is able to dissect it and create something new from it.
@@justiceiria869 That's how he was written up until Super at any rate.
I've had this opinion lying in my head the moment I saw it in the manga. MUI is still heavily superior to TUI. It was implied that TUI is just UI Sign being enhanced by Goku's fighting spirit to give it a power boost to make it a more natural state to Goku. MUI is still the strongest form, and before you tell me "MUI takes a bigger toll on Goku's body", while that may be true, that only nerfs it by a little bit. Another thing you need to remember is that MUI isn't mastered in the sense that Goku has harnessed all its power, it's mastered in that Goku can use it at will, meaning that Goku still has room to improve and use MUI at it's full potential without stress, further proving that it's stronger. Whis made this very evident at the fact that he recommended Goku to use TUI first and to "use the silver haired form as a last resort" since the greater power of MUI equally stresses Goku's body and it makes sense because MUI IS STRONGER THAN TUI.
Basically, MUI is the strongest character in a game meanwhile TUI is the character you know how to use the most
nice way to put it lmao
No, Tui is just the beginning of how to make your heart clam for UI
UI+heart clam>>>>>>>>>>>Regular UI
@@NightmareZzK No you're stupid
@@jackmorales4035oh yeah prove it😂
Come on
Don’t run away
I don't even treat True UI as a separate form to Omen.
I don't even consider it "True" as Goku specifically notes he wasn't calm, so there's no way he was using autonomous action at all.
Facts me neither. It’s like a better omen I guess
omen with just emotion amp
Tbh, even omen in the moro arc felt godlier than tui trash.
@@dizzyb2309 He was still very clearly using autonomous movement to dodge all of Gas's attacks.
Basically Silver UI is stronger, but Goku gets weaker while using it as time goes on due to not having a calm heart, while True UI is weaker but the power level is stable and Goku can use his emotions without his strength dropping. And once Goku learns how to keep his heart calm in the silver form, he'll be able to keep getting stronger as time goes on
He does have a calm heart but it conflicts with him being a sayian and wanting to enjoy battle makes it hard when there is complete calm
@@gentlepeeps3351 he struggles to keep his heart calm, that's why he quickly loses power while using the silver UI, his heart gets less and less calm as the battle goes on
Again after goku can finally controll MUI he can maybe controll tui too
UI Avatar>MUI>TUI>Nerfed MUI>UI Sign
Exactly
Why did they do ui so dirty in this arc
What’s ui avatar?
@@JeremiahKelly-el5si ui avatar is Goku using a giant form of himself with ultra instinct
He wanted to say susano ultra instinct.
This is something that I despise since the Initial Appearance. They don’t UNDERSTAND that True U.I. Is essentially U.I. Sign but with MORE CONTROL. He could not currently control Perfected Ultra Instinct Or Mastered Ultra Instinct, due to the emotional withdrawal that ties to his power.
What's the difference between Mastered and Perfected?
@@ImHimHan It's more or less TUI
I feel like the Omin state allows him to adapt faster to his enemy but the silver form is still superior in power after he has used Omin to adapt.
Jiren “attacks that exploit are not true strength” Whis “I’m a different life form, find your own version of of UI” we know from the angel lore that they’re a race that is always at peace, calm and tranquility is part of their very nature, they’re not a race that’s made to dominant, that is why when they fight they don’t just strike, they strike when it’s guaranteed blow because their bodies automatically studies the situation and adapts. But Goku is on the other hand is a saiyan and will never be an angel, he’s a species that thrive on rage, their adaptation is via rage so for Goku to emulate what angel does he has to discard his saiyan nature be angel for a little a little but copying will never make him an angel so what if the conditions to discard his saiyan nature? That is exactly why Whis told Goku to find his variant of UI, the that fits his nature, the one that won’t depend upon certain conditions to work, it will always be there when he needs because he himself Goku the saiyan is there. Since saiyans thrive on rage and sort of survival of the fittest by nature, they’re made to be dominant and offensive as opposed to angels what Goku was copying. That is how TUI came about, it is true to his nature, using the rage and his offensive nature, that’s why this version of UI is more like auto attack than auto dodge, it is a body fighting to exercise dominance, to win to survive, using whatever attack that working, that is why we have a version of ultra instinct that is shooting mouth blasts an attack that Goku would not normally use, if he was to use his brain to decide his pattern of attacks, he only used it because his body required him to and it was an attack that had a best chance of landing
I think true ultra instinct allowing him to use his saiyan nature during battle will lead to him being able to stack rage buffs onto its form (ie: supersaiyan + TUI). So in terms of which is better, MUI is probably still his best until he learns to add multipliers to TUI.
TUI saddens me because it just feels like toyotaro is gonna use it as foreshadowing for UI stacked onto SSJ, really hope that never happens.
What ppl don’t get is that silver UI Goku (MUI) is the closest to how an angel would fight. Angels are the strongest beings that practice martial arts (well they don’t really practice it, they’re just born with it). However, sustaining that level of pure instinct is not something Goku can do on a whim like turning ssj at this point in the story. He has to surrender fully to his instincts, which doesn’t come naturally to him like it does for angels, therefore making it incredibly hard to do it consistently. I still think that MUI Goku from the TOP is the strongest we’ve seen him, not bc of his actual power level but bc that’s when he was the closest to fighting like an angel would. MUI vs Granola/Gas was not the same as vs Jiren, he wasn’t fully locked in his instincts , letting thoughts of battle planning seep through as well as not having a calm heart/mind, making it not as complete as in the TOP. True UI is just a version of UI that fits more to his true self, making it a more reliable way of fighting for him but not a more efficient one
or it could be that goku was never able to draw out full power of mui since he doesnt have the calm mind of angels..there has been no scan that ever said that moro arc granolah arc mui goku < top mui goku.
@@mdjunad5771 exactly, that’s what I meant by surrendering to his instincts, he has to be calm of mind and heart to let his complete inner instinct come out, or else he’s just using it during certain moments of a fight and using his battle iq (mind) whenever else, which is a no go for mui.
I just think that during the top that’s when he was the closest to having a fully calm mind and heart, not putting him to the angelic level, but just closer than when he was fighting granola
@@SaneU_c I dont think in top he was see because he had just unlocked mui at that moment and he barely understood how to handle it and that moment so him being closer then but not now doesnt seem right because he has more knowledge about that power at this moment...also how the show has progressed up until now saiyans have always been getting stronger with their new powers arc after arc.
Y'all are slow AF, Goku's PUI in the Moro arc is the strongest, that's the point where he didn't have to worry about the stamina issue because it had already gone, it even showed insane feats like hardening the user's body and breaking a fully healed up Moro 73's hand.
Goku from TOP didn't even know how to sustain the completed UI and Goku's PUI during the Granolah arc was completely nerfed as stated by Toyotaro himself.
@@raiden8991 see goku's power level with mui in the granolah arc was higher than that of the previous arc's...toyotaro just brought up additional drawbacks for it in the granolah arc
Contrary to what other people have said, I believe the main reason True UI Goku is currently stronger is that Mastered UI requires much more base energy to control the form.
At Goku's current power level, this isn't worth it in terms of output power.
However, once he manages to minimize the static energy requirement from MUI or becomes powerful enough to make the power requirement minimal, he will transition to MUI.
We finally have a complex and multifaceted form in dragon ball along with ultra ego and db fans call it bad writing because they cant understand it and have to have somebody (most likely a RUclipsr) explain it too them.
Ah Dragon ball fans
💯
We should think of sign as the new set base on an ultra instinct level. Where the sign version strengthens the silver version, while being in the silver version polishes the use of it. Like how base versions of each character has to train without transformations to make those transformations way stronger than if you trained in those transformations.
Really hope they continue the anime for the rest of the manga, both of the new arcs would be amazing to see animated
Subscribing to you because someone finally gets it
Obviously. “True Ultra Instinct” isn’t even an official name. People just misread the article where it was written “his true Ultra Instinct” instead of “his True Ultra Instinct”.
Since “true” wasn’t in capital letters, it wasn’t part of the name, but an adjective that was in reference to what Whis was saying in regards to finding the UI that better suits Goku.
So, it’s in fact just UI Sign.
Then latter Toyotaro comes out and names it
True Ultra Instinct (-Sign-)
Exactly. Toyotaro has some serious writing potential for respecting Goku. People sell him short on this.
it really depends on the opponent and the situation for example..
vegeta stated on beerus planet jiren wasnt strong over all but his controll of his ki at his base form allowed him to save energy to fight everyone on his own making him not being to be read by his opponents easily and allowing him to land devasting attacks because his ki was calm and wasn't leaking like the saiyans
And when goku's heart and ki was calm he was able to overwhelm jiren and land decisive attacks on him, but Gas was too strong overall for gokus mind and ki to remain calm leading him to use a different approach a form that could allow his body to move freely at the same time be on the aggressive side of fighting instead of mui's defence at base and dodging .
That statement was retconned in the manga
I think the form that allows you to grow exponentially in battle is better😊
I sure do love when this guy says "monga version"
Thx for the heart lol 🤑🤑🤑
I’ve ALWAYS think Tui is an omen transformation, but however I do think it’s a new power up but not a new transformation(obviously). I don’t really think it’s weaker than MUI because when Goku and Vegeta’s were fighting Gas they both lost. After Gas defeated Vegeta, Goku proceeded to save Vegeta and power up using omen plus using to control his emotions which made(according to dragon ball) stronger than mui, which where Goku Tui said he’s slightly stronger than Gas which the Gas he defended MUI + UE fighting at once.
As öater shown when Gas powered up, he beat TUI and knocked Goku out, allowing him to be Emotionless and thus tap into PUI's True Potential
PUI (Emotionless) > TUI > PUI (Emotional)
@@hoshiryubefore Gas powered up he beated both mui and UE Vegeta, and when Goku goes Tui he beated gas even Goku said that he was slightly stronger before gas powered up and beated Tui Goku.
It was NEVER mastered
Its called completed or perfected Ultra Instinct
Perfected - Manga
Completed - usually Games
Mastered - Anime
These are the Names of the Silver Haired form depending on Continuity
Perfected - Manga
Completed - usually Games
Mastered - Anime
These are the Names of the Silver Haired form depending on Continuity
@@hoshiryu when in the anime was it said to be mastered???
The exact lines
@@chriscollins3225 hold that thought
@chriscollins3225 one of the kais said it
Dude thank you for this video I've been saying this forever this feels so obvious to me
MUI should technically be called Complete Ultra Instinct or CUI because in the anime Beerus literally says "There it is, complete in all its glory, Autonomous Ultra Instinct" or they could have it just UI and UI Sign/Omen, but that just doesn't sound right. Also I never though of Vegeta's UE in that way so great video i agree wholeheartedly
1. In the moro arc when beerus said that goku is tuning in those moves more and more it meant that he is getting used to those moves
2. whis told when ui is honed to this extent the body gets sturdier as necessary it means that when ui is using about 80% of goku's power it increses it to a 90 or even 100 when its required...that statement didnt meant that goku keeps getting stronger with mui infinitely as he uses it
3. Goku has never been able to use silver haired form to its fullest because goku is at end of the day is a mortal unlike the angels he feels emotions even in his mui state which is why he could never use the form to its full potential...even vegeta told goku that his mui seems no different than before when they were fighting Gas which means goku was indeed using his mui without any drop in his power. So saying that mui is moro and top arc wa stronger than the mui that faced gas makes no sense. Goku asked WHIS how can he better use ultra instinct he cant keep his mind as calm as the angels...which meant that goku wasnt satisfied with the calmness level of his ultra instinct that he had on top, moro and in granolah arc and he wanted to be even more calmer to use the silver haired form better to which whis told him to not follow him as he is a different life form and asked him to find his own way
4. So goku came up with his own tui that allows goku to fight the way he should thats why it enabled him to better use his power because ui isnt aboout following others to use that power its about being one with your true self. Currently goku doesnt have the calmness level of the angels which is why he cant draw out more power from mui..but eventually he will.
5. Gas and granolah wished to be the strongest in the universe which means they were even stronger than mui goku...however with tui goku went beyond them. so tui is stronger than current mui
And like he said only right now cuz of his emotions mui still on top
@@wangawangekilundu3489 what I am trying to say is that Goku has never ever been able to use the maximum power of mui even when he faced jiren and moro...but when he fixes it he eventually will
@@wangawangekilundu3489 Crazy how the manga debunked your whole argument
Beerus said "kansen migatte no gokui". "Complete" is the right word
Yes and Whis and Goku call it Perfected UI in the Manga
Toriyama named the Anime's Version Mastered UI
So now what
@@hoshiryu Go by the Japanese texts. Kansen can also mean perfected. Also, I believe that the manga and anime are different continuities. I wouldn't put too much thought into it because it's all fiction anyway.
Honestly what really is a shame is these arcs won’t be getting animated and that just pisses me off
I wish they would 😞😞😞
I literally just call the silver haired form, as it is officially called, Ultra Instinct, there is no other fancy title to it.
Anime UI is a lot different from manga UI since we see him actively using emotion and getting amped because of it against Jiren like when his friends were threatened. I would say that UI Sign actually has this need to be calm more than UI since we see Goku in the first fight trying to access more power when he first got the form by getting pissed off but then lost the form getting the whole "remember this heat" quote from Jiren before getting blasted away.
I think where they “done F up” was at the beginning of Granola arc. Silver hair UI was beaten up by a guy with a power up.
I wish they added more to the designs of godly transformations such as mui, tui and ue
This aged like wine,
spoiler alert
ch 102 confirmed it
Why are you keep calling it completed ultra instinct? The silver hair UI official name is Mastered Ultra Instinct. It is literally the title on episode 129
Anime Goku has many statements that prove Goku surpassed Beerus and Belmod, or just all the G.O.Ds, the manga still has beerus be way above Goku. People who say TUI is stronger just merge the two canons, which doesn't work.
Usually or when Goku fights his opponent it’s a good idea if he fights his opponent in his base or lesser forms. All without showing his true power. But Goku doesn’t always do this, look at what happened when he fought Cell, Gohan was his strongest warrior and greatest Fighter and rather then give Gohan the edge he gave cell a Sensu Bean. Sometimes Goku is to confident and lets his guard down. In the fight with Jiren Ultra Instinct was supposed to be the thing Goku uses to Gauge his opponents strength and attacks. MUI is supposed to be used when Goku wants to fight to defeat and stop his opponent. Ultra instinct is to learn his opponents abilities, tactics and strategy then formulate a plan to fight them. Ultra Instinct is to build his strength and adapt to the fight or fighters or evolve beyond his opponents level. MUI is to finish the fight and give him if he needs to a little more boost so he can complete the fight as the ultimate victor
Yep, TUI is just an upgraded version of UI Omen. Goku's probably going to obtain an upgraded version of MUI but it won't come out soon.
Ultra instinct is a goated ability ngl
Ur point is that silver hair UI goku can only be utilized when his heart is calm but we literally saw him rage out in that form and get stronger back in the TOP when jiren was about to boom his friends unless they retcon that
No that Emotion Boost in the Anime is ONLY FOR THE ANIME Continuity
Since UI Forms work differently in the Manga then they do in the Anime
Heck in the Manga Goku in UI lost to Jiren, unlke the Anime, and then he and Vegeta had to fight Jiren together, after being punched out of UI
@@hoshiryuah I didn’t realize that. Thanks for correcting my misunderstanding
I would not be surprised if they would make a Mastered True Ultra Instinct form which would be a combination of the TUI and MUI
Before you call me dumb, here’s why I think (IMO not bias) TUI is stronger that MUI
TUI was able to slightly surpass gas because goku was getting a lot of hit in gas, and make him use more of his life span just to surpass TUI goku. MUI goku was struggling to beat gas and he needed UE Vegeta’s help to overcome gas, but they was still struggling (UE vegeta was evolving though, but he gotten overwhelmed by battle damage) but TUI surpassed UE and MUI because he was able to surpass gas (barely) and make him use more of his lifespan. (Remember, Gas was cursed to be the strongest in the Universe. So to be the strongest, Gas needs to sacrifice more of his lifespan to surpass TUI goku.)
I’m not biased or didn’t read the manga. I’m just saying my opinion.
Thanks for the great info.... so how I have it in my head. You get: UI Sign(Omen) then you get True UI which is the perfected usage of Sign and lastly you get Mastered/Perfected/Completed (Silver haired form) UI which we saw in the Tournament of Power. Is this the correct way of understanding it? That means the strongest form must be if Goku uses True UI ontop of Perfected Ultra Instinct? Let me know if im wrong thx!
The fact everything Goku gone through to “perfect” Ultra Instinct in Moro sage was completely a joke and such a wasted potential. I still find it hard to believe that granola is somehow to win just because all he does was catch Goku off guard when he tricked Goku with his clones.
Tldr: MUI is objectively superior when used by someone who can mantain a calm heart during a battle, this however doesn't fit at all the battle style of Goku, so using it is incredibly complicated for him
Goku has been getting hit while in ultra instinct way too many times for my liking
I agree, he was supposed to be untouchable in the white haired form but the stupid writers messed it up
In the anime goku used his emotions in mui to completely overpower full power jiren you can maybe call that true mui and if goku can achieve that in the manga with mui he will be unstoppable 👀
Anime MUI is different then Manga PUI tho
They are simialr and have the same Effects, but are 2 seperate and different Forms
Like how SSB in the Anime and Manga are different too
@@hoshiryuso goku in the manga has perfected ultra instinct instead of mastered ultra instinct? Or he has both forms but perfected ultra instinct is more powerful?
The only argument that can write TUI over MUI is the fact that goku can mix at least ssg w/ UI. And blue kaioken.
I would not be suprised if goku completing the tri force using “ultra super sayian god super sayian kaioken” would outperform MUI goku. Unless goku is specifically sharpening his UI only.
“USsjBlueK” is like 3 stages farther than what goku can actually do.
-never used kaioken w/ UI
-never used blue w/ UI
-let alone all 3 at once.
Shit is basically baryon mode for goku. UI doesn’t even last an hour. Goku would have a shorter timer than fusions.
In simple terms silver ui it’s the ultimate and sign ui it’s the exp farm tool for the ultimate to do more damage, gotchu!
Both of them were able to beat Gas where UE couldn't.
MUI is still used as a last resort. Think TUI is sort of like the new super saiyan blue.
goku literally said he figured out the best transformation to utilise his power, so TUI is stronger
That doesn’t mean it’s stronger lol. Tui is just ui omen amped by battle emotions.
The reason he uses tui is because it’s easier to use compared to mui and a lot more natural.
Would you rather fight at 100% but risk losing that power any moment or fight at 60% in a stable condition?
He even briefly went back to mui when fighting against Gas which is something he wouldn’t do if tui was stronger.
@@hippydragonnslayerxdlmaohi3921 I don't think MUI is the 100% short power burst type of thing, It's more about playing within the rules and finding weaknesses
TUI is evolving like UE which creates it's own rules of fighting and MUI got rekt by Granolah that didn't even awaken his 2nd sharingan, MUI also got rekt by Jiren in the anime, MUI only seems to fit angels.
so there's arguments from both sides for which is better. we just need wait and see for more details
@@sparking4630 It’s pretty obvious MUI is better in raw power, however it’s just very inconvenient to use and also this was ignoring that Goku was getting a bunch of power amps multiple times throughout the arc.
@@hippydragonnslayerxdlmaohi3921 It is obvious using what logic? The fact that he lost using Perfected Ultra Instinct and won using TUI? The fact that when he fought Frieza and hopped into his strongest state it was TUI instead of Perfected Ultra Instinct.
Also, where does the term MUI come from? It was stated he completed the form, and was never stated it was Mastered.
@@voidtempering8700 yall mfs are slow whis states goku should use the silver hair form as a last resort. Why would he say that if it wasn’t the strongest form. The issue is he can’t stay calm enough to go deeper into the form so he resorts to using omen.
The mui sharpness increasing is due to him getting more and more used to his form however we do see a fore shadowing to its massive power drain with it being shown mui requires more energy than blue needing uubs power showing it’s less energy efficient then blue which isn’t that great since blue isn’t amaizing pg energy efficient
Enlighten me on this though. It took Mastered UI to beat Jiren and Moro, and then Goku fought Gas who is stronger than Jiren and Moro due to wishing to be the strongest fighter in the universe. Mastered UI wasn’t doing anything against Gas, until goku uses True UI which does more damage to Gas. So how is Mastered UI stronger in this context? Did I miss something ?
what if Vegeta mastered Ultra Ego and they gave it a cool ass name
for example: "Max Ego" idk I feel like that would be sick
I like to call Mastered Ultra Instinct, Absolute Ultra Instinct.
What I would like for Dragonball is a massive time skip where the characters we know exist only in legend and we get all new characters with low power levels once again. I miss the days of adventure and hand to hand martial arts. When blowing up buildings and being faster than sound was impressive.
I think they misunderstand it’s was only that power probably when he was fighting Gas because… He wasn’t using up all his energy at once and… he could use his emotions freely during battle without having to have the final MUI form conflict with his emotions. Thus burning less energy and utilizing more of his own unique style that the MUI form would conflict with. Usually if he fully masters an ability the secondary form is usually more powerful then the first. Usually, aka SSJ3 drains to much power and SSJ or SSJ2 to don’t drain as much energy as SSJ3. So MUIs weakness is that Goku had difficulty with using MUI for long periods of time and it conflicted with his emotions but UI sign/omen allowed him to use his own unique style and utilize less energy and drains less stamina. But yes just like SSJ3 is more powerful so is MUI. However they both have their negative drawbacks aka energy toll and energy drain
Bro, No Goku’s Mui didn’t improve as much, UE Vegeta literally said to Goku that his UI was no different than before, which MAKES Goku to FUTURE improve his ui aka Tui Goku, and "able to control his emotions" wasn’t that goal for Goku, it’s getting his heart clam Tui still didn’t get his heart clam as Goku stated. Goku said that he uses omen because he can control his emotions better(which mean if he tries to do it in mui it wouldn’t really work).
@@NightmareZzKI think Goku is supposed to evolve his last abilities to perfect his MUI Form in the Future as well as the True Control Ultra Instinct none silver black hair form
@@moredsea Yeah, his goal is to get his heart clam(which the angels DO have their heart clam plus mui), generally Mui is complete and far stronger than Uio, but Goku’s current Mui heart is not clam, which is why Tui is better
Yikes dude. Just going on the title and thumbnail here, power wise true ultra instinct combining his emotional power explicitly made him stronger than he was before even using MUI. At best, this is clickbait. Power wise, TUI is superior even if inferior when it comes to reaction speed and perfect movement.
There is a problem with the naming
MUI is the Silver Haired state for the Anime
There is no MUI in the Manga, only PUI, as it's often called Perfected Ultra Instinct, by both Whis and Goku
Mastered Ultra Instinct is the Name Toriyama gave the Silver Haired form for the Anime
Then there is Completed UI or CUI for the Games, usually just called UI tho
Yeah idk anymore bro. They really made UI way too overcomplicated for no reason. At this point I would've just preferred SSJ Blue 2.
I still think MUI should be the strongest variant cause it's the coolest looking 😎
even whis told him that to use the silver hair verison as a trump card
Goku's new Ultra Instinct should be called Acclimated Ultra Instinct and the true, mastered version being the silver hair
Of course! Mastered Ultra Instinct is still stronger than True Ultra Instinct.
But as per Whis, TUI allows Goku to use his Saiyan Instincts along with it, which in turn conserves more stamina than MUI.
The dumbest part of the writing of the Granolah saga is Goku literally punching harder as True Ultra Instinct as it was shown he could hurt Gas more as TUI than he could as MUI. That's why people say TUI > MUI in terms of raw power. They should have written it to have different abilities.
Yes I think we knew that cuz goku hasn’t mastered it yet and he only got the edge because he was using his own fighting style with his emotions
TUI is UI Sign with emotions when MUI still fights on instinct and has no emotions leading it to be what the tiktokers call Kakarot Mode with no mercy
It's funny that they so quickly retconned the silver version to not work when he's angry. His anger boosting him in the ToP when Jiren threw an energy blast at the spectators just to be removed later is silly.
Then again... where would they go from that ultimate power if they're going to continue the story? He needs new forms or else it's time for Dragonball to end.
Goku was never angry in the manga so it isn't a retcon. The manga is very different from the anime for exemple in the t.o.p it was gohan who was fighting kefla in the manga and not goku 👍
Hope it help 👍
@matrixneo2412 How is that not a retcon? The anime was first in this instance and was written by Toriyama. The anime is canon, and changing the canon is a retcon, is it not?
@@hinney827 anime and manga are different canon also when toyotora write the manga toriyama is also involved but yeah i get what you mean 👍
(Dragon ball super (anime) is produced by Toei. They have a writing staff and directors who, just as the manga, ask Toriyama for outlines on how the show should go so no toriyama didn't write the show but both series are technically canon) hope it help too 👍
i want goku and vegeta to go in the time chamber and do like a grade 4 ssj 1 where they are in theyre ultra forms always ( might not work for ultra ego )
Most people when he achieved tui were like thats his strongest form but i knew mui was still stronger
MUI: loses to Gas
TUI: Fights gas equally and slightly surpasses him
Shane: MUI is stronger
Logic
That's cause gas was burning through energy and he has better control of tui... Silver hair is indeed much stronger but he has better control of tui.
@@ninetailedara3802gas wasn’t "burning through energy" that was the gas who after he beated UE Vegeta, and Goku literally said that he’s slightly stronger than gas in this Tui form
@@ninetailedara3802and after Tui, Gas powered up which made him older and STRONGER, and he beat the shit out of Tui Goku
@@ninetailedara3802 that makes no sense. Gas was fine at that point. He only started decaying and so on when he used more power taking more years from his life. He was just fine during the fight. He easily beat UE and MUI Goku. TUI is clearly stronger than MUI. It's Gokus ultra instinct. If it was stronger why did he go to TUI instead of MUI against frieza? Cause TUI is his strongest form. The fight with Gas is proof enough. TUI surpasses MUI easily.
Still MUI = raw power/multi
TUI = better energy control and focus@@keybladegames_real
I've always just thought MUI was stronger but Goku had more control over TUI
Wait till the UI SSJ4😉
They gonna make SSJ4 cannon, im sure of it😃
So true ui is for now weaker than mui. But mui is a dead end, while tui has a place to grow and develop.
Wait.... there's a new form of Ultra Instinct? I checked out a long time ago
This aged well. Ch 103 literally states Silver Hair UI is the strongest. I bet the writers saw the debates online and threw that in the chapter to settle the delusion. 😂
Idk if Mui Goku ch 103 is stronger or not, but even if he is Tui was still stronger than the mui from the granolah arc and yes I KNOW Tui Goku IS ui sign
Here's my honest opinion
More power and strength: TUI
More speed and agility: MUI
Wrong and goofy opinion. Recent manga scans:
More power, strength, speed, and agility: MUI
Is this even a debate? Whis even said only use the silver haired UI as a last resort implying is his stronger form
So the weakness of the angels is to get them to panic hmm interesting…
Yeah it’s obvious mui from th at moro arc was his strongest point, the form he uses now is just something he more comfortable with
I think mui from granolah arc is MUCH stronger than the mui from Moro arc, because after the Moro arc Goku learns how to use UI at all time instead of using it as a transformation.
@@NightmareZzK it was state If im not mistaken that it doesn’t make the form it self stronger thats just for him to get use it and be able to use it out of his for so he can maintain it longer which wasn’t a problem during the moro arc
@@ImJusSha it wasn’t just that, in the Moro arc Goku uses ui as a transformation, but now before the granolah arc, he’s learned how to use ui at all time, but uses mui as his last resort, it should be stronger
Ig I can agree to some extent but there’s a few things wrong
The MUI in the Moro and Granolah Arcs are technically identical. Goku just discovered more of its weaknesses by the time the Granolah arc came around
And on that note
I’m inclined to say the power boost gained from merging emotions with Omen proved to be higher than the power boost between Omen to MUI
Which in that case would make TUI the stronger form, if you wanna consider it a separate form
Goku was weak against granolah because he used ui in all his forms, and that tired him out and THEN against gas he wasn’t calm because he had his identity crisis. If Goku just randomly uses Mui right now, it will be stronger than TUI unlike how you make it seem saying Goku will probably use TUI more
The fact that this needs explanation is wild. That’s like trying argue how ss2 is stronger than ss1. No shit
Can’t wait for, Mastered ui ultimate saiyan 50000 complete perfect super saiyan omega beyond ui omni ultra beast ui Goku.
basically, MUI is the strongest form, while True Ultra Instinct is the most efficient
I mean goku still figuring it out. So tui is more sustainable for him now.
I did say TUI as a form wmhas veen displayed to have a higher multiplier but MUI is better in litterally everything else from skill to combat etc.
Its like comparing kaioken ×60 to super Saiyan
I tell people that MUI is the peak of the form and this TUI is just omen but I get called slurs for it.
Damn that's crazy
I don't blame people for thinking tui is stronger because it happens later in the series
This makes no sense he used tui against gas when he was the strongest he's ever been up to that point after mui got eclipsed
It’s common sense that silver haired was stronger gas even flat out says that to goku and goku dosent deny it he just says in order to use silver he needs to be calm and he wasn’t calm at the moment ui omen allows him to use his emotions with ui which created tui really ain’t no diff from reg ui omen except he can use emotions literally it
For goku as of rn? No mui is a form he can not use to its greatest, while his true saiyan instinct sign allows him to be more free with his emotions. So saying mui for goku is stronger rn is incorrect. Eventually mui will be stronger or he will continue to make his own UI
I think goku will someday master MUI to the point he can use his saiyan instinct with it against black frieza
It's not how the silver haired UI works, emotions only hinder its growth, you need to have a calm heart to access that form.
One question tho... True ultra instinct uses your emotions to your benefit to make you stronger right...? Like isn't that exactly what super Saiyan does or am I just under thinking it here 🤨
different power path, super saiyan is saiyan's natural powerpath while ultra instinct is angel power path.
Base Form -> SS1 -> SS2 -> SS3
Base Form -> SSGod -> SSBlue
Base Form -> UI Omen -> MUI/PUI
Base Form -> Ui Omen -> TUI