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Always remember the Ultra forms are not linear multipliers They're states of minds, their power is unbounded and limitless. Their power depends on their mindset
Not true at all. After Goku got MUI/Sign his speed and strength sharply rose. He wasn’t doing any damage to Jiren before sign. If he didn’t get any power increase then he’s fought Jiren essentially with his base form in regards to his strength and speed. The only thing that changed was his reaction timings. If you wanna still argue the point then that would mean base form Goku would absolutely wipe the floor with SSB Vegeta since his final flash did nothing to Jiren but Goku beat Jiren with just sharper reaction timings and the same level of strength as his base.
@@Prashant-pm7iz no I'm saying the Ultra forms aren't linear power ups, their power varies depending on the user's mindset Of course they'll always be stronger then blue evolved
@@spinoirrex2433 That’s the thing that still doesn’t make sense. Correct me if I’m wrong as I haven’t watched or read any of the stuff in the post ToP arc so maybe it might be wrong for Ego. The mindset determines whether the user is operating in UI Sign or MUI. If there are small amounts of emotions involved then it’ll be UI Sign and if there’s none it’ll be MUI. There is still an increase in strength and speed. Goku hit Jiren in SSB Kaioken and it hardly did anything and not only that he was literally too slow to punch him. This is a separate thing from dodging and reaction speeds. We just don’t know how much the strength and speed multiplier is.
@@Prashant-pm7iz the manga is different Goku uses UI Sign instead of MUI and he actually was stronger then MUI with his emotions mixed with UIS, but in the manga Super Hero arc his MUI surpassed UIS + Emotions because in the Granolah arc his MUI was held back by doubt and anger
@@spinoirrex2433 Yeah like I said I don’t know about post ToP stuff but UI and all derivations of the form definitely give you a substantial boost to your strength and speed.
An Android using UI And Buu using UE. Those 2 things would be disgusting. Androids have infinite stamina, and Buu has infinite endurance. That sorts out UI and UEs only flaws.
@@lordkresnik2873Broly can still get destroyed like a normal saiyan would. His form allows him to massively get stronger as he fights (though not infinite), which isn't that much different from getting stronger as you take damage... unless you mean a combination of both, wherein he'd get massively stronger each second + every hit.
Couldve swore vegeta also said the strength increase is tied to his fighting spirit and that every hit invigorated his fighting spirit rather than it just being damage that outright powers it up. Theoretically all vegeta needs to do is keep fighting and whether he is winning or losing as long as he has the ego to keep fighting he'll continue to grow. Ego clears
@@boygenius538_8Yes he wasn't able to beat them but given the fact that it was possibly his second time in ultra ego, not even mastered it, barely learnt the basics, he performed waaaay better than MUI goku
Well.. no. Not really. Lol ultra ego isn't just a damage sponge in that form he harnesses destructive ki (same ki that beerus and the other gods use). So really its a super buff of all base abilities as well and giving him the ability to grow stronger AS he takes damage. Soo it's like a super god form that increases the longer the battle drags out and the more damage he takes.
The solution to ue is to have regeneration like cell or any of the buus. If vegeta can have some forms of regeneration, he will be quite the powerhouse
Would be cool if the explanation for his regeneration would be that he literally destroys the damage done to him. So like it never happened in the first place. Like if his hakai powers could extend to reversing or destroying certain concepts or states? Like a backspace button
The amount of ki that Uub threw to Goku in his fight with Moro is always crazy to me, we can see that him using UI takes up a HUGE amount of stamina and ki, so for Uub to provide goku with that ki and stamina and then some on top of that without powering up/ transforming and not even being bloodlusted too. Uub has some crazy potential man.
Ui is the better technique when it comes to fighting while UE is better for raw power. UI’s abilities are extremely useful in a fight ie dodging and punching without thinking. It’s basically your body fighting for you, attacking weak points in your opponents which gives you the edge. UE on the other hand gives makes you a literally tank. You’re incredibly strong, powerful and durable but take enough damage you’ll drop out. It’s basically a veteran martial artist vs an incredibly strong weight lifter who has basic fighting skills.
which is kind of fitting since goku was originally mainly about martial arts and vegeta has always been a true nature saiyan which is basically just power
Super strong person with fighting skills vs an average person with mastered fighting skills... the strong person wins everytime. Mohammed Ali vs Bruce Lee.. Both in their prime.. Ali would rek him
TRUE UI ISNT OVER MUI LETS NOT DO THAT PLEASE 😭 16:34 goku just don’t have to eliminate his emotions to fight in true ui so the form experiences no draw backs while mui requires complete emptiness of ur emotions and thoughts something goku struggles with so it’s not as effective until he get that under control
@@daniiii888 um no its stated that if goku learns how to control his emotions then silver haired ui is the strongest version he just can’t use it when his emotions and thoughts are in the way which is why he came up with true ui
Why people ultimately bring this down to Goku vs Vegeta? Goku's a literal MC, MC is stronger than other characters by default, ESPECIALLY in series like Dragon Ball. The UI vs UE if they were used by equal characters is more than one-sided. UE is based on damage taken and his battle mindset. UI is based on ultimate focus and stamina. UE is based on offensive and overwhelming opponents (I wouldn't say it's JUST the strength, if "power" increases, then it should be strength AND speed). UI is based on defensive and countering. UE makes the user more reckless and UI makes user more defense-focused. That's the differences, BUT, if UE is as good as current Goku's UI then after it's developed more (or if we take just UE (the starting point for Vegeta) and UI Omen (the starting point for Goku) then just the difference in power from UE vs UI should just straight out delete Goku right at the start. And about the growth, it's just Goku being HIM (the mc), not UI. Super's scaling is bs so they have to boost the hell out of characters for no reason so they can keep up. In pretty much "equal" fight UE should have an edge but still be somewhat relative to UI. So basically the fight would go as follows: -Vegeta recklessly attacks Goku. Goku at first manages to defend and counter well but gets tired out because 1. UE is more powerful by default 2. Reckless offense would be harder to defend against than more balanced approach. Goku gets some good hits in and damages Vegeta but that does jackshit cuz UE. -They should hit both hit 50% at the similiar time due to reasons above plus the fact that all the time it's Vegeta's power going up and Goku's defense going down. So Goku basically looses half of his advantage, while Vegeta gets at least 2 times stronger from the point where he was already stronger than Goku. (likely even more) -By that point Goku has basically no chance of winning. Goku dips while Vegeta keeps getting stronger and faster, winning with raw stats. It would be incredible one sided, I'm talking DBZ Broly level one sided. You may call that glazing but it's just how these two forms are written. Goku's basically 3 steps ahead in his form, yet Vegeta is still somehow relative to him, so if anything Vegeta's form got much much more potential. The balance works only because Goku is ahead of Vegeta by a lot in his development. UE is just *that* broken. (btw giving Vegeta any sort of regen/healing would basically break the verse completely. funny to think about) But hey, that's just how DBS is written. The fights are great but idk, DBZ was great too and it's power scaling made at least some sense. (and yeah, power scaling is not the #1 thing usually, but damn, they made a shounen based entirely raw power, not even martial arts as some may say, just pure power and yet the power scaling is absolute bs, kinda ironic to me)
You GET it. But also funny how many people miss the point of UE and UI. UI is the form of Angels and UE god of destructions. Angels >>GODs. Whis >>>> Beerus. Goku is him as you said thus his ceiling is higher, same with UIs ceiling compared to UE. The show is clearly setting this up.
This was a great breakdown of Ultra Instinct and Ultra Ego. I am glad someone else also acknowledged that there is a difference between endurance and stamina since I’ve had these kinda conversations but the idea gets conflated. Hopefully we can see more of UI and UE in the future
@@TheGoat-xj2szUltimate Gogeta would be a treasure to see. On that note, just combining forms is a fun thought experiment. I think UE+LSSJ would be an absolute tank, and legitimately beautiful with the purple and green hair.
I'll always take the power-up which aims to nullify/avoid damage while being as calm as possible, over the one who literally requires you to get damaged
MUI gives you a already good buff of dura and strength imagine if your an android u have infinite stamina and MUI can dodge with ease if it's stamina is already high UE is good for people who Wants big raw power and can tank good attacks which I would want since most people have good endurance if I wanted to choose in a fight I would do MUI since they can't hit me
@@khalilrahme5227 on paper it’s the better form can grow in strength thru ur fighting spirit and damage. Able to use hakai can destroy Ki blast with his aura. Is still very durable fast and strong. Able to use hakai type ki blasts. Has no ceiling so the fighter can grow as strong as he wants as long as he’s able to handle the damage. That’s the only negative. The persons durability. If vegeta is fighting any villain close to him in power or on par. He should always win because he’ll always grow in power and stronger. However because this is dragon ball and goku has ultra instinct they’ll always make that form look better even tho on paper and utility wise. Ultra ego blows ultra instinct out of the water. Because goku can always be hit if the enemy is stronger or on par with him
@khalilrahme5227 Ultra egos ability to take damage does have a limit, since we saw Gas manage to tap out vegeta. Ultra instinct would be better for huge power Gaps because it helps avoid said damage. For close battles, Ultra ego helps the user grow because they're relative in power and they should reasonably be able to take the damage of a relative individual.
@@voidprimordialI think they're equal,☯️ . Neither is superior to the other, one requires full focus & the other requires no thinking no focus at all. It just depends on the user.
I mean, if I remember correctly, when both MUI Goku and UE Vegeta started their battle against Gas, side by side, in the beginning, both were not able to land a single hit on Gas, but as the battle progressed further and Gas hitting Vegeta actually gave him the boost that he also started giving real damage to Gas, he landed a few good hits on Gas to make him shiver but MUI Goku couldn't do so. All that when UE is not even mastered. Also, I had a thought: if Vegeta fought Granolah or Gas with his Majin personality from Buu saga, without any remorse or guilt, purely enraged, idk what monstrous vegeta we could've witnessed ☠☠
But don’t forget that the reason why goku damage in mui was not as strong as it should is cuz his emotions where weakening him.That why he decided to go tui which was stronger then the vegeta that been getting stronger against gas.
@@kikitori2413 And you can’t use MUI properly if you’re not calm, therefore making it weaker, what? If your emotions get the better of you then you’re not calm
@@kikitori2413 dude did you read the manga when they was battling gas. Vegeta during the fight asked goku what was going on with his ultra intinct and goku said he isnt in the right state of mind right now to utilize the form correctly. Aka his emotions was off. Vegeta even tells goku to figure it out as he stalled gas. Which led to goku discovering and using tui/omen. Goku even admitted to gas that his heart wasnt calm when gas asked why not use the stronger silver hair form. Goku even saying that tui/omen was the best form to use for his current state/feelings right now. His deep rooted anger was directly clashing with the calm nature of perfected ui. Obviously burdening the preformance of mui. You can utilize mui but if your not fully calm or your mind is distracted clearly it hurts the form overall capabilities.
I think it's still too early to compare. Vegeta had *just* awakened Ultra Ego. He'll have growing pains just like Goku did. The fact that it was on par with Goku's MUI is astounding, given how much training Goku had done with MUI at that point.
It was only on par with ultra instinct because goku couldn't keep calm. Ue is way easier to maintain. A completely calm goku in Mui is way stronger than Ue vegetq
What I dislike about many Vegeta fans is that, when Goku gains a power-up, they call it "ass pull". But when Vegeta does it, they call it "hard work". But the truth is, it's just for plot convenience. They want to keep Vegeta close to Goku in term of power, so they just give Vegeta new power ups without a satisfying explanation. - Vegeta achieved SSB even though he didn't gain God Ki through SSG first. They just said "oh he trained with Whis and Goku, so he has God Ki now." - Vegeta somehow achieve SSG off-screen without the help of 5 pure heart Saiyans, even though Shenron said it's the only way. They just said "oh he trained to achieved it." - Now they're doing the same thing with UE Vegeta, just make him on par with UI Goku. The vegetards will never call it ass pull, they will shamelessly brag about it, and still cry about how Vegeta never gets the spot light. Goku is the MC, so of course he will get more screen time explaining how he gets stronger. Vegeta is a sidekick, so they would just skip the explanation part, just say "he trained" to keep him relevant in term of power. But this led to vegetards being arrogant and delusional, claiming that Vegeta gets stronger on his own without any help (they acted like Majin Vegeta was never a thing). No, it's just for plot. If what Goku does is ass pull, then Vegeta ass pulled even more. UE is a name Vegeta made up, but it's just Hakaishin transformation. Vegeta, being a show-off, has a habit of naming his transformations (like with SS1, he called his SS1 form "Super Vegeta"). Now if we compare UE and UI, well, it's not even close. UE is a technique that can be mastered by Gods of Destruction, yet the Gods struggle to master UI. Only the angels, who are much stronger than the gods, can master UI. That should tell you enough about which one is stronger, UI or UE.
@nhatvu8800 I always thought that it was strange that Dragon Ball fans hated Goku getting more spotlight. Like he's the main character wtf do you expect.
@@skweebwellington Those forms Vegeta and Trunks used during Cell Saga were just bulked up variants of SS1, but still SS1. They called it 2nd grade and 3rd grade variants of SS1. (Goku can use those forms too, shown when he trained with Gohan in the time chamber). Vegeta just called his form "Super Vegeta" because he likes to give his forms cheesy names, but it was just SS1 2nd grade. Goku and Trunks didn't call themselves Super Goku and Super Trunks when they were in those forms. It's just Vegeta being a cheesy show-off.
Ui is better. It has passive stats amplification. And other benefits like danger sense. The body moving on its own automatically without needing to think. Can be used while unconcious. Shifting vitals. Automatically making the body sturdier as neccessary. Being undetectable. Being able to exploit openings. Not needing to use your eyes. Immune to vitals perception. And goku can get rage boosts while in ui.
Context UI is better than UE and is overall a very strong form that has had tons of balance patches to make Goku still struggle against new foes for your entertainment. Dodging may very well be removed as a passive ability from the form and additional draw backs will be added in its stead. UE will receive buffs to keep it aligned with UI and will sometimes ever look better in battles however it isn’t stronger. Beast form and berserker super saiyan will be our next priorities.
I believe that energy wise.. UE has the hakai energy which is the most destructive energy, however, UI has energy that provides the user with an angelic feeling..
@@Mahlak_Mriuani_Anatman hes basically saying UI is comparable to the form an Angel would use (they are all in a state of MUI at all times tbf), while UE mimics the form gods of destruction use
@@kidgaming6529angels surpassed mui. They have pui (perfect UI). If goku had pui he could be mui and blue kaioken x20. While being completely unconscious and conscious at the same time. Goku has the ability to reach a level of ui even angels cant comprehend
actually UE is better than UI...the gronola fight is proof of that. UI goku got 1 tapped by a gronola clone whereas UE vegeta pushed the real gronola to his full potential before gronola could finally beat him
Well, I know what Vegeta should do! Wish for Immortality- Dragon Ball Immortality is slightly different than other forms of Immortality- and boom, infinite endurance because HE CAN'T REALLY BE HURT BY SHIT
During the granola arc ui > tui = evolved ue vegeta. Ui is better than ue and equals it in strenght. Ue can become stronger in a prolonged fight though. Don't see their being a tue. And even in a prolonged fight goku would still win. He can heal himself and make a barrier around himself that can tank hits from people a good deal above his weight class. And can use an attack capable of badly damaging someone stronger than himself.
it would also be insane if they happen to fuse and also which fusion they would do as back in fusion reborn, when goku got ssj3 recently and vegeta mastered his own forms, gogeta at the time as insane, as well as vegito blue in super. I hope they do a fusion instead of potara, as it would make more sense and be a very nice mix up instead of always going potara; BUT potara would maybe be PERMANENT as if they fully master their own forms, MUI and MUE, they could technically become as powerful as gods and as a kai, it would be crazy seeing a name like Ultra Vegito going against black frieza for an arc or some destroyer.
Saying It in RPG terms, basically Goku is the assassin that uses evasion to dodge, therefore, needs to raise his stamina. And Vegeta is the Tank that has the ability to convert his lost HP into Attack power, therefore, need to raise his endurance/HP. I guess in the long term vegeta will always win unless Goku ends the fight in a few attacks.
I just like how these forms finally separate the 2 characters even based on their personalities. Up until now it's just been who has been able to reach the next level of super saiyan 1st. Now they've finally branched off into different ways of fighting to go for the win. UI is early game win; UE is end game win. Oh, and they're more "techniques to employ" rather than transformations. Like kaioken.
Thank god someone spoke on this matter. These Vegeta fangirls are going crazy for a new form whose full potential hasn't even unleashed yet. (And most of them, never read manga). Creating hype for a character is good but fake hype always lead to disappointment.
Let them get hyped. The tears will be funnier when they eventually realize that UI >>>>UE. Goku is training to master Whis' ability whereas Vegeta is mastering Beerus' ability. We all know Whis would beat the shit out of Beerus if he wishes.
In my opinion ui is better. Because ui has a lot or versions of it. Even if goku mastered ui omen, mui, pui, and tui, goku still hasn't mastered ui completely. Because he can mix his rebular forms with it. UE so far dosent have enough versions to keep up with ui.
Stamina is the max cap; total energy normally Endurance is the max cost; energy usage rate You intensify something and you waste more energy to keep up, which can impact stamina reserves, but not explicitly. Being able to go 100 vs being able to stay at 100 or hit above is crazy
afaik bro wanted to introduce us to God Goku in the arcs following the events of the 2 followup arcs of Super (read the Manga) Very sad he passed... I would have loved to see where this ends in his vision... God Goku would have been an interesting thing with him taking on a new role in the universe, not as a destroyer or creator...
I feel like Goku indeed can utilize his rage without it overcoming him because if you remember in the Cell saga, Goku and Gohan both stayed in SS form for months and Goku admitted RAGE and ANGER being the key factor to transform and maintain. Tho this may have changed due to Kabbas technique with him focusing energy into one spot on his back.
When they first showed UE I was like yo this looks dope vegeta got a cool new transformation. but later on i was but now they can have a reason for him to get his a$$ beat cause the form requires it.🤣
Goku haven't mastered mastered Ultra instinct in super dragon ball, it was only complete ultra instinct form or we can say that ultra instinct only, It means now Goku will be able to use that form for sometime at anywhere. But he hasn't mastered it yet, We can see that thing in by seeing an example, In jiren vs Goku last match, before he make a team with frieza, Android 17 against jiren to defeat him. So, Please write this form UI vs UE , or Complete UI vs Complete UE. MUI will come later, And when he mastered that form, then he can easily use this form for longer periods, like MUE for Vegeta. In UI or complete UI form, his all powers were increased as compared to previous incomplete form of Ultra instinct. But yes, Vegeta will completely go in a UE, there is no stage before UE, like UI, which has so many stages, like autonomous UI, UI omen, UI omen - II etc, and then UI or complete UI in which his hair will become grey and more brighter grey aura he has in his body. Jai shree ram 🇮🇳🙏
Just Imagine if Goku gets Infinite Stamina and Vegeta gets Infinite Regeneration what eill happen then?... Will both of them never lose to each other or something?
Hope we learn more of Ultra Ego. Considering he literally just learned it his UE must still be really incomplete. Perhaps the getting damaged requirement is a crutch he uses to get into the mindset.
From what I've seen in the manga goku is trying to perfect the silver haired state before he goes back tui and to perfect that as well which leads the question does he combine the those two to make something different or does make make something different.
No. Based off the video, at least, on a scale of 1-10 itd be: Ui: attack 8, defense 100 decreasing to 9 over time of the battle. UE: attack 9 boosting to infinity over time depending on users endurance, defense 3. Whole technique relies on being hit. These two teniques arent linear. They are both above and beyond limits, one jjst at the beginning of fighy, the other towards the end
I'd say that even if Vegeta increases his endurance, that will just make it so he doesn't get so much stronger, since that new damage would not be as much of a problem to him anymore, and he wouldn't mind it as much, so his rage/adrenaline wouldn't make him stronger
Ultra Ego ( High Attack, High Defence, Adaptability and Hakai) Hyper offensive. MUI ( Agility, Speed, Sharp attacks and critical hits) Hyper Defensive. Beast ( Mixture of both minus Hakai, Adaptability and Auto Dodge) Jack of all trades but master of none. So they all compliment each other and are relatively equal.
That's true but it also boosts the strength and speed and durability of the user SIGNIFICANTLY MORE than any other form Vegeta had prior meaning, something mui doesn't do nearly as much as it's more so the heightening of ones instincts. It boosts Gokus speed and probably his durability but it's NOTHING compared to what ego does off rip... And it only gets BETTER... I feel like eventually Vegeta would overwhelm Goku just because the initial boost is already a big gap between his prior forms. I mean he literally survived a LETHAL BLOW like it was nothing but a normal punch... And then has an entire extra fight
@@leoneyamada5408 i disagree with your opinion i think mui is better think about it ultra ego is required to became a god of destruction and the gods can't even master ultra instinct no matter how many centuries they train and whis says when training goku and vegeta to use their bodies to move not your brain
@@aaronpingol1566 the gods CAN master it it's just conflicting with who they are on an instinctual level... It's like trying to make vegan cookies... It's just not a great mix...
It doesn't suck but it has much more flaws and Akira Toriyama had dug himself into a plot hole with it in my opinion. Because Black Frieza exposed it when he one-shotted Vegeta in his UE form. UE couldn't deal with it and therefore rise above it, it was too much power from Frieza for him to deal with even in UE. So if the premise with UE being better by virtue of the fact that each time it's user takes damage, their power grows, then Black Frieza quite literally ruined the whole and short career of UE by TKO'ing Vegeta effortlessly.
Vegeta doesn't necessarily needs to take damage to get stronger, as long as he's in a state of mind for battle and destruction the power also increases.
Ultra ego just doesn't have enough going for it at the moment so there isnt really a way to compare the two. We just don't know that much about ultra ego. Also just get close to leaving the form pop a sense bean then do it again infinite strength lol
“True ultra instinct” is just ultra instinct sign. Meaning it’s automatically weaker than perfected ui. “TUI” is not some unique or separate form. This was clarified in a V-jump interview with toyotaro after the conclusion of the Granolah arc.
I mean in noway i can see vegeta winning if both are using the best of their forms. The battle will start and end before vegeta land a single hit but hitted too much(became much stronger but couldn't bypass ui) so goku just lands too much hit and vegeta loses
If vegeta gets to beerus full understanding he'll be unbeatable. Beerus: destruction is always on my mind therefore my power keeps growing. He literally gets stronger as he sleeps because dude is just always dreaming about destruction. Once vegeta fully understands his instinctive desire, his power will just keep growing passively.
Ultra Instinct is the final form of a master martial artist, and Ultra Ego is the final form of a battle-hardened warrior. They are thematically perfect ultimate forms for Goku and Vegeta respectively.
Hmmm. Well i think there is a misunderstanding because of the name of the form. They call it "mastered ultra instinct", which implies it being at its max, yet whis basically tells goku hes at the lowest level, and whis not even knowing what was up with that form. With MUI power coming in part from your ability to eliminate emotions and stay calm, and also how accurate your reactions then i think its safe to assume that there are both levels to calmness and reactions as well. With goku again, being at the lowest level. I also think its important to note that while his white hair form gives him an inherent access to UI, that form in itself is not UI. Basically, white guarantees UI is active (and also guarantees at least a higher level than he can so far access at base), whereas he has yet to attain constant UI in his other forms (like total concentration constant from demon slayer) So my point to saying this. You say UE surpasses in power but i argue they are equal. More importantly, they are limitless. They just have different ways of accessing more of that limitless power. For goku again its calmness and accuracy (meaning both literal accuracy and how refined the technique is). I would imagine it like an exponential graph that requires smaller and smaller increases in calmness/accuracy with bigger amd bigger increases in power. Vegetas is through tanking damage. Or at least kinda. I think its technically battle spirit, but vegeta uses "tanking damage" as his way of attaining more and more battle spirit. And this i would also imagine is like an exponential graph, because obviously there is only so much damage you can take. Like those graphs that approach infinity but you never actually see them reach either axis of the graph. So arguing which one is stronger is both a moot point and just shows misunderstanding, as both are limitless.
If ultra instinct is a technique then why does only his hair change color like with his ssj transformations? A technique shouldnt chage your hair, but a transformation does change your hair
@youtubestudiosucks978 have you read the manga? Goku can access UI in his other forms. Therefore the implication at least how I see it is that the form we call MUI is in fact a transformation but not a UI transformation. Kinda like a domain expansion from jjk. I see it as a transformation that has UI imbued into it as a default but the transformation itself is more just a transformation that comes about from being more godly. Like his body isnt strong enough at the moment to handle that level of ultra instinct, so it has to transform to maintain it. With the further implication being that, as his body gets stronger, he will be able to attain a level of UI that is innate to the transformation, only without having to transform.
Nah you're missing a big point... UI can be perfected way above what it is now, just like goku and whis state multiple times. As far as we know UI perfection has no limits, so UI strength, speed and dodge is unlimited too. As you can see, even at 100%, goku is nowhere near whis, and whis stated that GP his way above him too. So the idea that UE can get stronger by training the endurance is correct but you fail to comprehend that by keep mastering UI, goku gets stronger and faster too. As a technique UI is MILES above anything that UE can be, as you have way more ways to evolve.
You get it. I don't understand how people claim they're DB fans miss the point of UE. It's the form of god of destructions. Whereas Goku is still learning to master the more difficult form of the Angels. We all know Angels are stronger than God of destructions. Whis >>>> Beerus.
THANK YOU!! ofc ion like the answer bc I actually like U.E more.. BUT THANK YOU for actually giving a solid answer with reasoning instead of a slide through that leaves ppl brain itchy. But since U.E does technically have better feats than U.I but ui is the better Form.. doesn't that mean Vageta is better?
Vegeta in Tournament of Power: "Toppo! You have no honor, you accepted God of Destruction's powers to be stronger!" Vegeta later: "Yes Beerus, teach me God of Desctruction's powers because Kakarot with his Ultra Instinct is stronger than me and I can't surpass him by myself."
It's a bit different though. Toppo just kinda got imbued with hakai energy without learning. Vegeta trained to acquire the technique and made his own form from it. Similar but different.
There was one easy way to make destruction energy work in ultra ego. Instead of getting stronger the more you are hit which doesnt make sense at all with destruction energy. Have it so his aura erases those of others. So when an enemy attacks vegeta they get weaker, as well as getting weaker by just being near him
I think the problem I've seen with Ultra Instinct and Master Ultra Instinct is this: If Goku or an Angel fight someone with incredible speed - A Goku who was fighting Vegeta, now using power equaling Super Saiyan power as Ultra Instinct, now fighting let's say Majin Buu, Goku realizes that Buu's natural battle speed is so high that he can take Goku a few times. But what should happen with MUI is that the stronger, the faster the fighter, the faster Goku can react over time. So no matter who he fights, the opponent may be very fast and can counter his MUI for a few moments, but the nature of the form causes him to increase in speed and instinctive power, thus, keeping Goku or an Angel from getting hit or increasing in its reactive, proactive speed.
Technically with better hakai management Vegeta could theoretically limit the amount of damage he takes (destroy the energy of the attacks) so that he'd never get taken out of the fight.
Vegeta should have gotten a form that plays off the fact that he over thinks thing like Whis says is the reason he can't use Ultra Instinct, Ultra Ego should have given Vegeta insane perception being able to dodge attacks before they're even thrown by noticing his enamels tense their muscles. "just keep hitting me this wont backfire" feels like a lesson Goku would have warned Gohan about during the cell saga only for Vegeta to show why exactly thinking like that is foolish.
I think that Ultra instinct would have the upper hand on ultra ego in most one on one combat scenarios, as the moment in which ultra instinct is strongest coincides with the moment that ultra ego is weakest, so if used to proper effect an ultra instinct user must attempt to deal more damage than an ultra ego user can handle within the first exchanges in a fight, thus not allowing the ultra ego user to fully utilize their potential. However ultra ego would have a significant advantage when taking on very large numbers of rivals in a long and drawn out conflict such as the ToP, where one could pick off the weakest of the enemies first using them to increase ones power, until able to swiftly overwhelm the more powerful foes and then work down from the top
using your point example i also think whis is training him to lower the amount of staminia it takes. so if he has 100 stamina he need to train so he has 200 but also lower the amount it takes from 10 to 5 or whatever
Ultra Ego is an awesome concept, but we've all seen how quickly Vegeta goes from "i am the unbeatable prince of saiyans" to "oh God how could i lose?" in no time flat
Regardless of which is better, don't forget that UE is still underdeveloped, it's still in it's Omen stages and will likely evolve again. There could benefits to UE we aren't quite aware of that optimizes it's main gimmick. I still maintain that Tui is still goku's peak btw. If it's the most suitable for goku, that makes it his best form, especially since it utilizes his saiyan instincts, he can't use Mui like whis can and is Goku's way of maximizing the power. He has instincts and desire that whis will never have, so that what makes it Goku's strongest state. With that being said, Vegeta will probably do something similar.
So the answer would be for Vegeta and Goku to try to kill each other and then have Dende step in every few minutes to heal them. And every blue moon have them fuse and practice Ultra Ego Instinct.
Bro why do i just imagine a scenario of vegeta and goku fighting someone and goku goes mui and vegeta goes ue and vegeta just goes "KAKAROT PUNCH ME" and then goku just punches vegeta 20 times in a blink of an eye and vegetas just at full power
SUBSCRIBE! Which form do you think is stronger and overall effective?
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Goku solo
Bro no it's pretty much known that Vegeta cwould almost one punch Goku right now@@sebamohamed4596
False information: 3:28
Correction : She was only able to do that because Goku was low on Stamina which Kioken uses a lot 🤦
What's the song called at 06:06 in this video?
Always remember the Ultra forms are not linear multipliers
They're states of minds, their power is unbounded and limitless. Their power depends on their mindset
Not true at all. After Goku got MUI/Sign his speed and strength sharply rose. He wasn’t doing any damage to Jiren before sign.
If he didn’t get any power increase then he’s fought Jiren essentially with his base form in regards to his strength and speed. The only thing that changed was his reaction timings.
If you wanna still argue the point then that would mean base form Goku would absolutely wipe the floor with SSB Vegeta since his final flash did nothing to Jiren but Goku beat Jiren with just sharper reaction timings and the same level of strength as his base.
@@Prashant-pm7iz no I'm saying the Ultra forms aren't linear power ups, their power varies depending on the user's mindset
Of course they'll always be stronger then blue evolved
@@spinoirrex2433 That’s the thing that still doesn’t make sense. Correct me if I’m wrong as I haven’t watched or read any of the stuff in the post ToP arc so maybe it might be wrong for Ego.
The mindset determines whether the user is operating in UI Sign or MUI. If there are small amounts of emotions involved then it’ll be UI Sign and if there’s none it’ll be MUI.
There is still an increase in strength and speed. Goku hit Jiren in SSB Kaioken and it hardly did anything and not only that he was literally too slow to punch him. This is a separate thing from dodging and reaction speeds. We just don’t know how much the strength and speed multiplier is.
@@Prashant-pm7iz the manga is different
Goku uses UI Sign instead of MUI and he actually was stronger then MUI with his emotions mixed with UIS, but in the manga Super Hero arc his MUI surpassed UIS + Emotions because in the Granolah arc his MUI was held back by doubt and anger
@@spinoirrex2433 Yeah like I said I don’t know about post ToP stuff but UI and all derivations of the form definitely give you a substantial boost to your strength and speed.
These 2 forms are amazing, they're basically the opposites of each other but in a cool way
91 likes and no reply? C o o l
@@LightningBoltStriker 91 father's and no mother? C o o l
@@rekter-or5mr You're the one with no father lil bro
@@LightningBoltStriker atleast I don't have 91 fathers in my basement starving.
@@rekter-or5mr tfym lil bro 💀
11:05 endurance relates to how long you can endure
_the floor is made of floor_
lmao
Your mother is a woman, in Africa, every 60 seconds, a minute passes
this entire shit felt like it was written by chatGPT
@@Kimera92lol it really did the 10 stamina points a second shit was so silly and made no sense
And it’s not even the definition. How long? It’s how much you can withstand
An Android using UI
And Buu using UE.
Those 2 things would be disgusting. Androids have infinite stamina, and Buu has infinite endurance. That sorts out UI and UEs only flaws.
I raise you broly using ultra ego
They will never achieve UI or ue
@@lordkresnik2873Broly can still get destroyed like a normal saiyan would. His form allows him to massively get stronger as he fights (though not infinite), which isn't that much different from getting stronger as you take damage... unless you mean a combination of both, wherein he'd get massively stronger each second + every hit.
@@unknownstranger2621they can lol
@@realjirobawhy
Couldve swore vegeta also said the strength increase is tied to his fighting spirit and that every hit invigorated his fighting spirit rather than it just being damage that outright powers it up. Theoretically all vegeta needs to do is keep fighting and whether he is winning or losing as long as he has the ego to keep fighting he'll continue to grow. Ego clears
Yeah, he actually doesn’t even need to be hit, it’s just that being hit happens to “bolster his fighting spirit”.
You're correct. Vegeta doesn't NEED to take damage he just has to have the drive to keep going but that won't always be enough
lol no. He clearly didn’t have enough ego to beat granola or gas
@@boygenius538_8Yes he wasn't able to beat them but given the fact that it was possibly his second time in ultra ego, not even mastered it, barely learnt the basics, he performed waaaay better than MUI goku
Everytime Vegeta broke his arm vs Gohan everytime he broke arm:
So, Ultra Ego is a damage sponge. Ultra Instinct is the mosquito from one punch man.
💀💀💀💀
UI Goku would defeat one punch man
@ Maybe
Well.. no. Not really. Lol ultra ego isn't just a damage sponge in that form he harnesses destructive ki (same ki that beerus and the other gods use). So really its a super buff of all base abilities as well and giving him the ability to grow stronger AS he takes damage. Soo it's like a super god form that increases the longer the battle drags out and the more damage he takes.
@talonwinnett8433 The longer the battle drags out, the higher chance he's gonna give out. Happens in all the fights.
The solution to ue is to have regeneration like cell or any of the buus. If vegeta can have some forms of regeneration, he will be quite the powerhouse
Would be cool if the explanation for his regeneration would be that he literally destroys the damage done to him. So like it never happened in the first place. Like if his hakai powers could extend to reversing or destroying certain concepts or states? Like a backspace button
abrudity ☠☠man you wanna make vegeta a monster? ☠☠
@@mickeynoah6352 that would be quite problematic for the writer to do a story arc.
Shouldnt be able to after the yadrat training
@@saiyajin6969 yeah, tbf i miss variety in Z figthers, not just who can punch harder and glow slightly different sepctrum
It’s a great morning when Avent uploads. Keep up the Dragon Ball comparisons, they’re really fun to watch!
The amount of ki that Uub threw to Goku in his fight with Moro is always crazy to me, we can see that him using UI takes up a HUGE amount of stamina and ki, so for Uub to provide goku with that ki and stamina and then some on top of that without powering up/ transforming and not even being bloodlusted too. Uub has some crazy potential man.
Yeah, that's kid Buu for ya
Ui is the better technique when it comes to fighting while UE is better for raw power. UI’s abilities are extremely useful in a fight ie dodging and punching without thinking. It’s basically your body fighting for you, attacking weak points in your opponents which gives you the edge. UE on the other hand gives makes you a literally tank. You’re incredibly strong, powerful and durable but take enough damage you’ll drop out. It’s basically a veteran martial artist vs an incredibly strong weight lifter who has basic fighting skills.
which is kind of fitting since goku was originally mainly about martial arts and vegeta has always been a true nature saiyan which is basically just power
So like, his he gets stronger just like when in real life sparring u get hit. And you laugh and think like: ima fuck him up now
Super strong person with fighting skills vs an average person with mastered fighting skills... the strong person wins everytime. Mohammed Ali vs Bruce Lee.. Both in their prime.. Ali would rek him
@@itsGuy🌚you don’t know ANYTHING about fighting
@@itsGuy hmmm
TRUE UI ISNT OVER MUI LETS NOT DO THAT PLEASE 😭 16:34 goku just don’t have to eliminate his emotions to fight in true ui so the form experiences no draw backs while mui requires complete emptiness of ur emotions and thoughts something goku struggles with so it’s not as effective until he get that under control
So what you are saying is that True UI is stronger than MUI because goku can actually use it correctly. Got it.
@@daniiii888 tui is not stronger than mui, tui is more practical for Goku, but mui is obviously a stronger form
@@daniiii888 um no its stated that if goku learns how to control his emotions then silver haired ui is the strongest version he just can’t use it when his emotions and thoughts are in the way which is why he came up with true ui
@@daniiii888mui even after the granola arc is outright stronger than tui.
@@daniiii888 What they're saying is MUI is stronger, TUI is easier to tap into and maintain since it has less strict requirements.
Why people ultimately bring this down to Goku vs Vegeta? Goku's a literal MC, MC is stronger than other characters by default, ESPECIALLY in series like Dragon Ball. The UI vs UE if they were used by equal characters is more than one-sided.
UE is based on damage taken and his battle mindset. UI is based on ultimate focus and stamina. UE is based on offensive and overwhelming opponents (I wouldn't say it's JUST the strength, if "power" increases, then it should be strength AND speed). UI is based on defensive and countering. UE makes the user more reckless and UI makes user more defense-focused. That's the differences, BUT, if UE is as good as current Goku's UI then after it's developed more (or if we take just UE (the starting point for Vegeta) and UI Omen (the starting point for Goku) then just the difference in power from UE vs UI should just straight out delete Goku right at the start. And about the growth, it's just Goku being HIM (the mc), not UI. Super's scaling is bs so they have to boost the hell out of characters for no reason so they can keep up.
In pretty much "equal" fight UE should have an edge but still be somewhat relative to UI. So basically the fight would go as follows:
-Vegeta recklessly attacks Goku. Goku at first manages to defend and counter well but gets tired out because 1. UE is more powerful by default 2. Reckless offense would be harder to defend against than more balanced approach. Goku gets some good hits in and damages Vegeta but that does jackshit cuz UE.
-They should hit both hit 50% at the similiar time due to reasons above plus the fact that all the time it's Vegeta's power going up and Goku's defense going down. So Goku basically looses half of his advantage, while Vegeta gets at least 2 times stronger from the point where he was already stronger than Goku. (likely even more)
-By that point Goku has basically no chance of winning. Goku dips while Vegeta keeps getting stronger and faster, winning with raw stats. It would be incredible one sided, I'm talking DBZ Broly level one sided.
You may call that glazing but it's just how these two forms are written. Goku's basically 3 steps ahead in his form, yet Vegeta is still somehow relative to him, so if anything Vegeta's form got much much more potential. The balance works only because Goku is ahead of Vegeta by a lot in his development. UE is just *that* broken. (btw giving Vegeta any sort of regen/healing would basically break the verse completely. funny to think about)
But hey, that's just how DBS is written. The fights are great but idk, DBZ was great too and it's power scaling made at least some sense. (and yeah, power scaling is not the #1 thing usually, but damn, they made a shounen based entirely raw power, not even martial arts as some may say, just pure power and yet the power scaling is absolute bs, kinda ironic to me)
You GET it. But also funny how many people miss the point of UE and UI. UI is the form of Angels and UE god of destructions. Angels >>GODs. Whis >>>> Beerus. Goku is him as you said thus his ceiling is higher, same with UIs ceiling compared to UE. The show is clearly setting this up.
This was a great breakdown of Ultra Instinct and Ultra Ego. I am glad someone else also acknowledged that there is a difference between endurance and stamina since I’ve had these kinda conversations but the idea gets conflated. Hopefully we can see more of UI and UE in the future
makes you think how strong MUE would be!
Layers into outerversal
@@TheGoat-xj2sz how? not trying to ague or sound rude but just like what proof?
@@kysondobbs3941 like mui combined with ultra ego is crazy broken
@@TheGoat-xj2szUltimate Gogeta would be a treasure to see.
On that note, just combining forms is a fun thought experiment. I think UE+LSSJ would be an absolute tank, and legitimately beautiful with the purple and green hair.
@@TheGoat-xj2sz’’Mastered Ultra Ego’’ They weren’t talking about Ultra Instinct combined with Ultra Ego.
I'll always take the power-up which aims to nullify/avoid damage while being as calm as possible, over the one who literally requires you to get damaged
Agreed, slick Dodging/ wheeving is better than taking hits all day.
@@raiden8991I can imagine darkness with ultra ego
I’ll choose UE mainly because if your durable enough it’s broken imagine if u can’t feel pain and you have rapid healing
MUI gives you a already good buff of dura and strength imagine if your an android u have infinite stamina and MUI can dodge with ease if it's stamina is already high
UE is good for people who Wants big raw power and can tank good attacks which I would want since most people have good endurance
if I wanted to choose in a fight I would do MUI since they can't hit me
@@JustAnobody115 androids would never be able to use ui
@@borghot632 delusional
@@JustAnobody115 🤡
@@borghot632 blud didn't hear "if"
Amazing video concept, analysis and execution. Well done
Best comparison that I have seen on RUclips most don't even understand how the form even works
11:05 "Endurance answers the question of how much you can endure"
Nice one
Whis told Vegeta thats he thinks too much halting his movement, well his answer was Ultra Ego so he didnt need to think
For close battles in terms of power, Ultra ego is better
If there is a significant power gap between combatants, Ultra instinct is better
Best way to put it
Wouldn't that mean that UE is always better? I imagine they both can deal with significantly weaker foes just fine
@@khalilrahme5227 on paper it’s the better form can grow in strength thru ur fighting spirit and damage. Able to use hakai can destroy Ki blast with his aura. Is still very durable fast and strong. Able to use hakai type ki blasts. Has no ceiling so the fighter can grow as strong as he wants as long as he’s able to handle the damage. That’s the only negative. The persons durability. If vegeta is fighting any villain close to him in power or on par. He should always win because he’ll always grow in power and stronger. However because this is dragon ball and goku has ultra instinct they’ll always make that form look better even tho on paper and utility wise. Ultra ego blows ultra instinct out of the water. Because goku can always be hit if the enemy is stronger or on par with him
@khalilrahme5227
Ultra egos ability to take damage does have a limit, since we saw Gas manage to tap out vegeta. Ultra instinct would be better for huge power Gaps because it helps avoid said damage.
For close battles, Ultra ego helps the user grow because they're relative in power and they should reasonably be able to take the damage of a relative individual.
@@voidprimordialI think they're equal,☯️ . Neither is superior to the other, one requires full focus & the other requires no thinking no focus at all.
It just depends on the user.
I mean, if I remember correctly, when both MUI Goku and UE Vegeta started their battle against Gas, side by side, in the beginning, both were not able to land a single hit on Gas, but as the battle progressed further and Gas hitting Vegeta actually gave him the boost that he also started giving real damage to Gas, he landed a few good hits on Gas to make him shiver but MUI Goku couldn't do so. All that when UE is not even mastered. Also, I had a thought: if Vegeta fought Granolah or Gas with his Majin personality from Buu saga, without any remorse or guilt, purely enraged, idk what monstrous vegeta we could've witnessed ☠☠
But don’t forget that the reason why goku damage in mui was not as strong as it should is cuz his emotions where weakening him.That why he decided to go tui which was stronger then the vegeta that been getting stronger against gas.
@@wangawangekilundu3489its never stated that goku was weaker bc of the emotion
You need to be calm to use mui
@@kikitori2413 And you can’t use MUI properly if you’re not calm, therefore making it weaker, what? If your emotions get the better of you then you’re not calm
@@Handlesaretrash you need yo be calm to use mui,if goku used it then he was calm
@@kikitori2413 dude did you read the manga when they was battling gas. Vegeta during the fight asked goku what was going on with his ultra intinct and goku said he isnt in the right state of mind right now to utilize the form correctly. Aka his emotions was off. Vegeta even tells goku to figure it out as he stalled gas. Which led to goku discovering and using tui/omen. Goku even admitted to gas that his heart wasnt calm when gas asked why not use the stronger silver hair form. Goku even saying that tui/omen was the best form to use for his current state/feelings right now. His deep rooted anger was directly clashing with the calm nature of perfected ui. Obviously burdening the preformance of mui.
You can utilize mui but if your not fully calm or your mind is distracted clearly it hurts the form overall capabilities.
Such a good vid, this shows how good your understanding of Dragon Ball is
Honestly I loved vegeta getting his own totally unique form that’s the opposite of goku, I just wish it had a better opening fight
I think it's still too early to compare.
Vegeta had *just* awakened Ultra Ego. He'll have growing pains just like Goku did.
The fact that it was on par with Goku's MUI is astounding, given how much training Goku had done with MUI at that point.
It was only on par with ultra instinct because goku couldn't keep calm. Ue is way easier to maintain. A completely calm goku in Mui is way stronger than Ue vegetq
What I dislike about many Vegeta fans is that, when Goku gains a power-up, they call it "ass pull". But when Vegeta does it, they call it "hard work". But the truth is, it's just for plot convenience. They want to keep Vegeta close to Goku in term of power, so they just give Vegeta new power ups without a satisfying explanation.
- Vegeta achieved SSB even though he didn't gain God Ki through SSG first. They just said "oh he trained with Whis and Goku, so he has God Ki now."
- Vegeta somehow achieve SSG off-screen without the help of 5 pure heart Saiyans, even though Shenron said it's the only way. They just said "oh he trained to achieved it."
- Now they're doing the same thing with UE Vegeta, just make him on par with UI Goku. The vegetards will never call it ass pull, they will shamelessly brag about it, and still cry about how Vegeta never gets the spot light.
Goku is the MC, so of course he will get more screen time explaining how he gets stronger. Vegeta is a sidekick, so they would just skip the explanation part, just say "he trained" to keep him relevant in term of power. But this led to vegetards being arrogant and delusional, claiming that Vegeta gets stronger on his own without any help (they acted like Majin Vegeta was never a thing). No, it's just for plot. If what Goku does is ass pull, then Vegeta ass pulled even more.
UE is a name Vegeta made up, but it's just Hakaishin transformation. Vegeta, being a show-off, has a habit of naming his transformations (like with SS1, he called his SS1 form "Super Vegeta"). Now if we compare UE and UI, well, it's not even close. UE is a technique that can be mastered by Gods of Destruction, yet the Gods struggle to master UI. Only the angels, who are much stronger than the gods, can master UI. That should tell you enough about which one is stronger, UI or UE.
@nhatvu8800 I always thought that it was strange that Dragon Ball fans hated Goku getting more spotlight. Like he's the main character wtf do you expect.
@@nhatvu8800 ss1 and super Vegeta are technically 2 different forms. Same with trunks. They even say so In the cell saga.
@@skweebwellington Those forms Vegeta and Trunks used during Cell Saga were just bulked up variants of SS1, but still SS1. They called it 2nd grade and 3rd grade variants of SS1. (Goku can use those forms too, shown when he trained with Gohan in the time chamber). Vegeta just called his form "Super Vegeta" because he likes to give his forms cheesy names, but it was just SS1 2nd grade.
Goku and Trunks didn't call themselves Super Goku and Super Trunks when they were in those forms. It's just Vegeta being a cheesy show-off.
Ui is better. It has passive stats amplification. And other benefits like danger sense. The body moving on its own automatically without needing to think. Can be used while unconcious. Shifting vitals. Automatically making the body sturdier as neccessary. Being undetectable. Being able to exploit openings. Not needing to use your eyes. Immune to vitals perception. And goku can get rage boosts while in ui.
I will have to watch this video again a few times, very good video.
Context UI is better than UE and is overall a very strong form that has had tons of balance patches to make Goku still struggle against new foes for your entertainment. Dodging may very well be removed as a passive ability from the form and additional draw backs will be added in its stead. UE will receive buffs to keep it aligned with UI and will sometimes ever look better in battles however it isn’t stronger. Beast form and berserker super saiyan will be our next priorities.
I believe that energy wise.. UE has the hakai energy which is the most destructive energy, however, UI has energy that provides the user with an angelic feeling..
@@berniebernalwhat 😂
@@Mahlak_Mriuani_Anatman hes basically saying UI is comparable to the form an Angel would use (they are all in a state of MUI at all times tbf), while UE mimics the form gods of destruction use
@@kidgaming6529angels surpassed mui. They have pui (perfect UI). If goku had pui he could be mui and blue kaioken x20. While being completely unconscious and conscious at the same time. Goku has the ability to reach a level of ui even angels cant comprehend
actually UE is better than UI...the gronola fight is proof of that. UI goku got 1 tapped by a gronola clone whereas UE vegeta pushed the real gronola to his full potential before gronola could finally beat him
Well, I know what Vegeta should do! Wish for Immortality- Dragon Ball Immortality is slightly different than other forms of Immortality- and boom, infinite endurance because HE CAN'T REALLY BE HURT BY SHIT
Notification bell finally doing its fuckin job 🙌
During the granola arc ui > tui = evolved ue vegeta. Ui is better than ue and equals it in strenght. Ue can become stronger in a prolonged fight though. Don't see their being a tue. And even in a prolonged fight goku would still win. He can heal himself and make a barrier around himself that can tank hits from people a good deal above his weight class. And can use an attack capable of badly damaging someone stronger than himself.
Excellent well thought out video
it would also be insane if they happen to fuse and also which fusion they would do as back in fusion reborn, when goku got ssj3 recently and vegeta mastered his own forms, gogeta at the time as insane, as well as vegito blue in super. I hope they do a fusion instead of potara, as it would make more sense and be a very nice mix up instead of always going potara; BUT potara would maybe be PERMANENT as if they fully master their own forms, MUI and MUE, they could technically become as powerful as gods and as a kai, it would be crazy seeing a name like Ultra Vegito going against black frieza for an arc or some destroyer.
The goat has returned
W video still waiting on kudo shinichi vs L lawliet
Saying It in RPG terms, basically Goku is the assassin that uses evasion to dodge, therefore, needs to raise his stamina.
And Vegeta is the Tank that has the ability to convert his lost HP into Attack power, therefore, need to raise his endurance/HP.
I guess in the long term vegeta will always win unless Goku ends the fight in a few attacks.
noti bell gang the one who cooks has uploaded
I just like how these forms finally separate the 2 characters even based on their personalities. Up until now it's just been who has been able to reach the next level of super saiyan 1st. Now they've finally branched off into different ways of fighting to go for the win. UI is early game win; UE is end game win.
Oh, and they're more "techniques to employ" rather than transformations. Like kaioken.
Good video bro 😎
Thank god someone spoke on this matter. These Vegeta fangirls are going crazy for a new form whose full potential hasn't even unleashed yet. (And most of them, never read manga). Creating hype for a character is good but fake hype always lead to disappointment.
Let them get hyped. The tears will be funnier when they eventually realize that UI >>>>UE. Goku is training to master Whis' ability whereas Vegeta is mastering Beerus' ability. We all know Whis would beat the shit out of Beerus if he wishes.
In my opinion ui is better. Because ui has a lot or versions of it. Even if goku mastered ui omen, mui, pui, and tui, goku still hasn't mastered ui completely. Because he can mix his rebular forms with it. UE so far dosent have enough versions to keep up with ui.
Stamina is the max cap; total energy normally
Endurance is the max cost; energy usage rate
You intensify something and you waste more energy to keep up, which can impact stamina reserves, but not explicitly.
Being able to go 100 vs being able to stay at 100 or hit above is crazy
afaik bro wanted to introduce us to God Goku in the arcs following the events of the 2 followup arcs of Super (read the Manga)
Very sad he passed... I would have loved to see where this ends in his vision... God Goku would have been an interesting thing with him taking on a new role in the universe, not as a destroyer or creator...
I love your content man, It’s always a good sign when you upload and make a edit
Rest in peace Akira toriyama we will miss you thank you for all the inspiration over the years.
Great video!
Dragon Ball is the greatest anime ever created & it's not even close
This video is an analogy to life
Work hard but you don’t have enough endurance to work hard forever
I feel like Goku indeed can utilize his rage without it overcoming him because if you remember in the Cell saga, Goku and Gohan both stayed in SS form for months and Goku admitted RAGE and ANGER being the key factor to transform and maintain. Tho this may have changed due to Kabbas technique with him focusing energy into one spot on his back.
Joker vs L lil bro
Seththeprogrammer made a video on this topic. Joker no diffs
You're a persona fan kid don't be calling anyone lil bro alright lil bro😂
@@Azeral7 lil bro
☠️@@Kaharri-wd9ic
When they first showed UE I was like yo this looks dope vegeta got a cool new transformation. but later on i was but now they can have a reason for him to get his a$$ beat cause the form requires it.🤣
Goku haven't mastered mastered Ultra instinct in super dragon ball, it was only complete ultra instinct form or we can say that ultra instinct only,
It means now Goku will be able to use that form for sometime at anywhere.
But he hasn't mastered it yet,
We can see that thing in by seeing an example,
In jiren vs Goku last match, before he make a team with frieza, Android 17 against jiren to defeat him.
So,
Please write this form
UI vs UE ,
or
Complete UI vs Complete UE.
MUI will come later,
And when he mastered that form, then he can easily use this form for longer periods, like MUE for Vegeta.
In UI or complete UI form,
his all powers were increased as compared to previous incomplete form of Ultra instinct.
But yes, Vegeta will completely go in a UE, there is no stage before UE, like UI, which has so many stages, like autonomous UI, UI omen, UI omen - II etc, and then UI or complete UI in which his hair will become grey and more brighter grey aura he has in his body.
Jai shree ram 🇮🇳🙏
It’s why Gohan raw potential got the chance to hit him
I want them to
Develop gohan even more with piccolo and gotten with trunks
We need a beast gohan video
Love your content ❤❤❤❤
Just Imagine if Goku gets Infinite Stamina and Vegeta gets Infinite Regeneration what eill happen then?... Will both of them never lose to each other or something?
Vegeta gets stronger AND faster the moment he gets hit so at some point he will surpass goku speed and 1shot him.
Could you do Baku Madarame vs Kiruma Souchi. I love the videos and I'm waiting on Akiyama's first appearance. Keep on with the good work❤
Hope we learn more of Ultra Ego. Considering he literally just learned it his UE must still be really incomplete. Perhaps the getting damaged requirement is a crutch he uses to get into the mindset.
From what I've seen in the manga goku is trying to perfect the silver haired state before he goes back tui and to perfect that as well which leads the question does he combine the those two to make something different or does make make something different.
In my head canon I can best explain it like so
UI : Attack 7, Defence 9
EU : Attack 9, Defence 7
GB : Attack 9, Defence 9
No. Based off the video, at least, on a scale of 1-10 itd be:
Ui: attack 8, defense 100 decreasing to 9 over time of the battle.
UE: attack 9 boosting to infinity over time depending on users endurance, defense 3. Whole technique relies on being hit.
These two teniques arent linear. They are both above and beyond limits, one jjst at the beginning of fighy, the other towards the end
I'd say that even if Vegeta increases his endurance, that will just make it so he doesn't get so much stronger, since that new damage would not be as much of a problem to him anymore, and he wouldn't mind it as much, so his rage/adrenaline wouldn't make him stronger
Ultra instinct = no touch me and ultra ego = keep touching me 😂😂😂👏
Ultra Ego ( High Attack, High Defence, Adaptability and Hakai) Hyper offensive.
MUI ( Agility, Speed, Sharp attacks and critical hits) Hyper Defensive.
Beast ( Mixture of both minus Hakai, Adaptability and Auto Dodge) Jack of all trades but master of none.
So they all compliment each other and are relatively equal.
Is fused Ultra instinct and ultra Ego a thing that’s been talked about yet?
ultra ego sucks you need to take damage to fuel it and it can backfire if the user accumulates too much physical damage to continue fighting
That's true but it also boosts the strength and speed and durability of the user SIGNIFICANTLY MORE than any other form Vegeta had prior meaning, something mui doesn't do nearly as much as it's more so the heightening of ones instincts. It boosts Gokus speed and probably his durability but it's NOTHING compared to what ego does off rip... And it only gets BETTER... I feel like eventually Vegeta would overwhelm Goku just because the initial boost is already a big gap between his prior forms. I mean he literally survived a LETHAL BLOW like it was nothing but a normal punch... And then has an entire extra fight
@@leoneyamada5408 i disagree with your opinion i think mui is better think about it ultra ego is required to became a god of destruction and the gods can't even master ultra instinct no matter how many centuries they train and whis says when training goku and vegeta to use their bodies to move not your brain
@@aaronpingol1566 the gods CAN master it it's just conflicting with who they are on an instinctual level... It's like trying to make vegan cookies... It's just not a great mix...
It doesn't suck but it has much more flaws and Akira Toriyama had dug himself into a plot hole with it in my opinion. Because Black Frieza exposed it when he one-shotted Vegeta in his UE form. UE couldn't deal with it and therefore rise above it, it was too much power from Frieza for him to deal with even in UE.
So if the premise with UE being better by virtue of the fact that each time it's user takes damage, their power grows, then Black Frieza quite literally ruined the whole and short career of UE by TKO'ing Vegeta effortlessly.
Vegeta doesn't necessarily needs to take damage to get stronger, as long as he's in a state of mind for battle and destruction the power also increases.
Or just get used to mui that it takes almost 0 stamina like super saiyan lol
Ultra ego just doesn't have enough going for it at the moment so there isnt really a way to compare the two. We just don't know that much about ultra ego. Also just get close to leaving the form pop a sense bean then do it again infinite strength lol
“True ultra instinct” is just ultra instinct sign. Meaning it’s automatically weaker than perfected ui. “TUI” is not some unique or separate form. This was clarified in a V-jump interview with toyotaro after the conclusion of the Granolah arc.
Curiously in the last chapter MUI lasted about almost 30 mins judging from gotenks separating which takes 30 mins to happen.
I mean in noway i can see vegeta winning if both are using the best of their forms. The battle will start and end before vegeta land a single hit but hitted too much(became much stronger but couldn't bypass ui) so goku just lands too much hit and vegeta loses
If vegeta gets to beerus full understanding he'll be unbeatable.
Beerus: destruction is always on my mind therefore my power keeps growing.
He literally gets stronger as he sleeps because dude is just always dreaming about destruction.
Once vegeta fully understands his instinctive desire, his power will just keep growing passively.
Ultra Instinct is the final form of a master martial artist, and Ultra Ego is the final form of a battle-hardened warrior. They are thematically perfect ultimate forms for Goku and Vegeta respectively.
Hmmm. Well i think there is a misunderstanding because of the name of the form. They call it "mastered ultra instinct", which implies it being at its max, yet whis basically tells goku hes at the lowest level, and whis not even knowing what was up with that form.
With MUI power coming in part from your ability to eliminate emotions and stay calm, and also how accurate your reactions then i think its safe to assume that there are both levels to calmness and reactions as well. With goku again, being at the lowest level.
I also think its important to note that while his white hair form gives him an inherent access to UI, that form in itself is not UI. Basically, white guarantees UI is active (and also guarantees at least a higher level than he can so far access at base), whereas he has yet to attain constant UI in his other forms (like total concentration constant from demon slayer)
So my point to saying this.
You say UE surpasses in power but i argue they are equal. More importantly, they are limitless. They just have different ways of accessing more of that limitless power.
For goku again its calmness and accuracy (meaning both literal accuracy and how refined the technique is). I would imagine it like an exponential graph that requires smaller and smaller increases in calmness/accuracy with bigger amd bigger increases in power.
Vegetas is through tanking damage. Or at least kinda. I think its technically battle spirit, but vegeta uses "tanking damage" as his way of attaining more and more battle spirit. And this i would also imagine is like an exponential graph, because obviously there is only so much damage you can take.
Like those graphs that approach infinity but you never actually see them reach either axis of the graph.
So arguing which one is stronger is both a moot point and just shows misunderstanding, as both are limitless.
If ultra instinct is a technique then why does only his hair change color like with his ssj transformations?
A technique shouldnt chage your hair, but a transformation does change your hair
@youtubestudiosucks978 have you read the manga? Goku can access UI in his other forms. Therefore the implication at least how I see it is that the form we call MUI is in fact a transformation but not a UI transformation. Kinda like a domain expansion from jjk. I see it as a transformation that has UI imbued into it as a default but the transformation itself is more just a transformation that comes about from being more godly. Like his body isnt strong enough at the moment to handle that level of ultra instinct, so it has to transform to maintain it. With the further implication being that, as his body gets stronger, he will be able to attain a level of UI that is innate to the transformation, only without having to transform.
@@youtubestudiosucks978 it's almost neither. It's more like a state of being, hence why all angel hair is the same color.
I'm calling it right now. We're gonna get MUI Goku and UE Vegeta fusing into MUI/UE Vegito and it's gonna be awesome.
UI - I dodge and land critical fast blows
UE - I get my ass beat
i get my ass beat so i can beat ur ass🤣🤣
Nah you're missing a big point... UI can be perfected way above what it is now, just like goku and whis state multiple times. As far as we know UI perfection has no limits, so UI strength, speed and dodge is unlimited too. As you can see, even at 100%, goku is nowhere near whis, and whis stated that GP his way above him too. So the idea that UE can get stronger by training the endurance is correct but you fail to comprehend that by keep mastering UI, goku gets stronger and faster too.
As a technique UI is MILES above anything that UE can be, as you have way more ways to evolve.
You get it. I don't understand how people claim they're DB fans miss the point of UE. It's the form of god of destructions. Whereas Goku is still learning to master the more difficult form of the Angels. We all know Angels are stronger than God of destructions. Whis >>>> Beerus.
Yeah goku's mastery with ui has the potential to at least surpass the gp's mastery over it. And the gp's mastery over ui > the angels.
THANK YOU!! ofc ion like the answer bc I actually like U.E more.. BUT THANK YOU for actually giving a solid answer with reasoning instead of a slide through that leaves ppl brain itchy. But since U.E does technically have better feats than U.I but ui is the better Form.. doesn't that mean Vageta is better?
Isn’t ultra ego is a god of destruction form? How are the gods of destruction scared to used ultra ego?
Vegeta in Tournament of Power: "Toppo! You have no honor, you accepted God of Destruction's powers to be stronger!"
Vegeta later: "Yes Beerus, teach me God of Desctruction's powers because Kakarot with his Ultra Instinct is stronger than me and I can't surpass him by myself."
It's a bit different though. Toppo just kinda got imbued with hakai energy without learning. Vegeta trained to acquire the technique and made his own form from it. Similar but different.
Master Ui doesn't have stamina issues its more of controlling the power
There was one easy way to make destruction energy work in ultra ego. Instead of getting stronger the more you are hit which doesnt make sense at all with destruction energy. Have it so his aura erases those of others. So when an enemy attacks vegeta they get weaker, as well as getting weaker by just being near him
I think the problem I've seen with Ultra Instinct and Master Ultra Instinct is this: If Goku or an Angel fight someone with incredible speed - A Goku who was fighting Vegeta, now using power equaling Super Saiyan power as Ultra Instinct, now fighting let's say Majin Buu, Goku realizes that Buu's natural battle speed is so high that he can take Goku a few times. But what should happen with MUI is that the stronger, the faster the fighter, the faster Goku can react over time.
So no matter who he fights, the opponent may be very fast and can counter his MUI for a few moments, but the nature of the form causes him to increase in speed and instinctive power, thus, keeping Goku or an Angel from getting hit or increasing in its reactive, proactive speed.
Technically with better hakai management Vegeta could theoretically limit the amount of damage he takes (destroy the energy of the attacks) so that he'd never get taken out of the fight.
Beast Gohan is like a mix of both white/ silver hair, and the ki is like Ego.
Vegeta should have gotten a form that plays off the fact that he over thinks thing like Whis says is the reason he can't use Ultra Instinct, Ultra Ego should have given Vegeta insane perception being able to dodge attacks before they're even thrown by noticing his enamels tense their muscles. "just keep hitting me this wont backfire" feels like a lesson Goku would have warned Gohan about during the cell saga only for Vegeta to show why exactly thinking like that is foolish.
I think that Ultra instinct would have the upper hand on ultra ego in most one on one combat scenarios, as the moment in which ultra instinct is strongest coincides with the moment that ultra ego is weakest, so if used to proper effect an ultra instinct user must attempt to deal more damage than an ultra ego user can handle within the first exchanges in a fight, thus not allowing the ultra ego user to fully utilize their potential. However ultra ego would have a significant advantage when taking on very large numbers of rivals in a long and drawn out conflict such as the ToP, where one could pick off the weakest of the enemies first using them to increase ones power, until able to swiftly overwhelm the more powerful foes and then work down from the top
What's the song called at 06:06 in this video?
I think about it like this, would I rather me able to dodge a punch or tank a punch.
Vegita got his ass kicked so many times that they just made him a pervert who likes to get beaten and become stronger 😂
using your point example i also think whis is training him to lower the amount of staminia it takes. so if he has 100 stamina he need to train so he has 200 but also lower the amount it takes from 10 to 5 or whatever
thats kinda a good take, the reason why gokus body give out is bc he rage boosted mui and his body couldn't handle it and gave out similar to kaioken
For vegeta you could of swapped endurance with durability & it would make more sense, but i get what you saying
Ultra Ego is an awesome concept, but we've all seen how quickly Vegeta goes from "i am the unbeatable prince of saiyans" to "oh God how could i lose?" in no time flat
Regardless of which is better, don't forget that UE is still underdeveloped, it's still in it's Omen stages and will likely evolve again. There could benefits to UE we aren't quite aware of that optimizes it's main gimmick. I still maintain that Tui is still goku's peak btw. If it's the most suitable for goku, that makes it his best form, especially since it utilizes his saiyan instincts, he can't use Mui like whis can and is Goku's way of maximizing the power. He has instincts and desire that whis will never have, so that what makes it Goku's strongest state. With that being said, Vegeta will probably do something similar.
So the answer would be for Vegeta and Goku to try to kill each other and then have Dende step in every few minutes to heal them.
And every blue moon have them fuse and practice Ultra Ego Instinct.
trunks + mui =no arcs that last more than 1 episode
Vegeta out here running a unyielding/bloodied build 😂
Getting stronger with pain is unique to saiyan biology. Toppo wields his g.o.d power differently, he does have more exp using hakai.
Bro why do i just imagine a scenario of vegeta and goku fighting someone and goku goes mui and vegeta goes ue and vegeta just goes "KAKAROT PUNCH ME" and then goku just punches vegeta 20 times in a blink of an eye and vegetas just at full power