Stop Debating Broly vs Jiren!
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- Опубликовано: 27 сен 2024
- Stop Debating Broly vs Jiren! Broly vs Jiren, Who is the STRONGEST?
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Broly has cool hair that changes color. He probably wins because his toys will sell better.
Or broly is stronger due to the fact that goku was stronger during his fight than he was in the tournament of power, his ultra instinct form is stronger and he has a better mastery of it, yet broly is still stronger than him
he did not use ultra instinct in dbs broly
@@kenpatricksia9404so what? Goku and vegeta needed to fuse against broly but they didn’t fuse against jiren. Blue gogeta is more of a power amp than ultra instinct. I just see a way for ui goku to be stronger on his own than a fused variant of himself with vegeta post tournament of power 😂 that just doesn’t make sense
@@MikesVBs bro if they didn't has the fusion idea Goku would have gotten into Ui or Mui
@@MikesVBs read the manga fool
No way people are still debating Broly VS Jiren in big 2024.
People do it all the time but the answer has always been obvious.
@@ProfessorDantijiren? :D
@@KaiserX18broly low diffs
Big 2024? Bro please 😭🙏
FR BROLY NEGS💀
Bro base gogeta is stronger then the absolute max of goku and vegeta broly pushed gogeta to ssj blue there’s you’re answer broly is stronger than top jiren cause really think about it so you think Mui goku from the top could push gogeta to even go ssj1
Exactly,people don't understand how strong Gogeta Blue is.They knew being close to Broly's power isn't enough because he would adapt and keep growing.Even if Jiren is stronger if he's close to Broly he won't win.You have to be leagues above Broly to win.Gogeta didn't go SSJ2 cause Broly might have been stronger.He skipped SSG cause maybe that would do it but it's a risk to take.He went Blue,Gogeta Blue stomp Jiren too.But nobody talks about that.
Finally someone who understands how broken gogeta is like how do people ignore the fact that broly faced goku and vegeta POST top with a crazy zenkai boost and if that isn’t enough he faced gogeta. We saw that vegeta exposed Jiren in the gohan movie with the statement about Jiren “he wasn’t that much stronger than us in terms of power” whis even agreed and we saw a stronger goku vegeta ssjb literally run away from JUST broly ssj1 and they didn’t even try to use ssjbe or ssjbkk20 because it’s useless 😂 gogeta base was holding his own against Broly ssj1 what means gogeta base alone>goku vegeta ssjbkk20 or ssjbe and if that wasn’t enough broly pushed gogeta to ssj1 and they started going toe to toe with each other. So that means we have a gogeta base times 50x 💀 even in the light novel frieza himself who faced Jiren directly states “I have never seen a stronger warrior than him” and that was just ssj1 broly and at the very end when broly went full power ssj1/LSSJ gogeta had to skip ssj2/ssj3 and ssjg to deal with him and even then ssjb couldn’t really do the job that easy because broly was still getting up and becoming stronger a Japanese magazine even stated that LSSJ broly was almost on par with gogeta ssjb in terms of PURE power and that if broly could control his full power he could have a chance of beating a gogeta ssjb what is outrageous. Jiren isn’t getting past gogeta base to begin with gogeta ssj1 is overkill now let alone ssjb
Ok, so several problems.
1. The "He's not really an enemy" is pure semantics. When you have to become hyperliteral about specific wording of a statement, that's when you know that you're grasping at straws.
2. On top of that the statement of strongest enemy is backed up in the movie. Goku states that he believed his strength was reaching it's peak (Referring to his fight with Jiren.) But after meeting someone so much stronger that him (Broly) he's changed his mind. Which suggests once again that Broly is a far greater challenge than Jiren was.
3. The fact that fusion with ssj blue was considered the only way to stop Broly is also a testament to this.
4. Statements regarding beerus should just be ignored at this point. Because every single time he is compared to someone, he is even stronger than before. First he was only slightly stronger than ssj god. Then he was well above super saiyan blue, then he was compared to vegito and zamasu. Then he was weaker than Jiren. Then he is confident he can take out moro. Who is way stronger than Jiren. Do you see the problem?
Broly is written to be boundless. The problem is so is Beerus. Not initially ofc hints all the power scaling, but it is heavily implied based off what the show and manga has given up that Beerus is the strongest there is. Never really sweating when it comes to opponents, that is until Broly arrives on his planet. At the very least Broly is a threat to EVERYONE. Same cannot be said about Jiren
Put it like this. Jiren is stronger than HIS universes god of destruction, the clown belmont. While Broly is compared to beerus the strongest god of destruction. It’s obvious Broly is is just written to be stronger.
you do realize goku does not knoe beerus's true power to say broly is relative to him right? but yeah, broly is stronger, simply because he was going to be a match to gogeta if he hadn't ended the fight fast
@@borghot632 yes I realized that but at that time goku has already fought Jiren. If Broly was close to Jiren in power goku would have said it. Instead he compares him to Beerus and I’ll add goku lost to Beerus.
@@Buckets32 goku compares him to beerus, and beerus is stronger than jiren by default, he literally fought all the gods by himself without even going all out on them
@@borghot632 yea we agree Broly is stronger than Jiren (long term)
@@Buckets32 not even long term, broly went from base vegeta level to gogeta ssj2 level (goku and vegeta base power being super saiyan god at this point) in mere minutes of fighting, and was pushing back so much gogeta had to jump straight to blue to create a big enough gap in power to win against broly, otherwise gogeta would've lost
Misinformation video. Jiren never been shit compared to ssj broly let alone full power 😂😂😂
Beerus is stronger than belmod, jiren is only stronger than his own destroyer(belmod) not beerus, and we all know that mui goku is still far weaker than beerus. So with these statements we can scale them like this=
Belmod
Ok this video is flawed from the start. The anime and manga have two different powerscales and shouldn't be conflated with one another. In the anime Jiren is above Beerus and all the gods of destruction. In the manga Jiren is better at fighting than Belmond but in terms of power still weaker than him and Beerus. This evidenced by MUI Goku who in the anime surpasses Beerus but is weaker than him in the manga. If Broly is in the anime he's more powerful than Jiren by a huge margin as he is in the manga. He's slightly above Beerus with FP Ikari SSJ.
You keep showing the Manga scan where it is stated than our god of destruction and combat skill, there is no official statement calling Jiren stronger than all gods it's just hype material, whis keeps throwing statements that don't make sense remember when he said kaioken x10 Goku would beat Beerus, Beerus is considered the strongest god of destruction in the broly novel and other statements if that's the route many use for the hype materials on Jiren and I see it only says a god of destruction on those hype materials not even Black freezer is beerus' lvl.
On another note Jiren at full power could barely hold off berserk Broly in XenoVerse 2 closest vs we will ever get
Using Xenoverse as a talkin point 😂
Untrue, The anime literally states Jiren is above the God of destructions not as promotion but as the actual plot of the show. There is no way anyone can conclude that was just filler hype.
Second as for your xenoverse 2 claim, Fu distorts history to make broly even stronger. Literally in that level the supreme kai of time flat out says broly is now as strong as BLUE GOGETA. So this Broly is way stronger than the movie one and to make matters worse for him, Jiren fights him with no buffs to jiren and he still wins. We know Jiren wins cuz the mission is literally defeat broly, and after the cutscene the defeat broly win condtion is met and checked off. SO yea Even with fu powering up broly in ur xenoverse 2 claim Jiren beats him. SO then you would have to say Gogeta blue is weaker than Jiren
@@WildFang39 there is sooo much wrong with your analogy but let me explain, in the anime whis' clearly says "so the rumors are true there is a mortal a god of destruction can not defeat" I say again he said a not plural just one and it's belmod being referred there could be a few others but that's all, next up it says broly can survive attacks from blue Gogeta which is consistent if you ever watched the movie, nowhere does Fu ever state or is even stated broly was buffed normally in xeno and I'm sure you're unaware of this whenever the villain is amped the become black-grayish with red eyes broly is normal and clearly shown through dialogue and the cutscenes Jiren is struggling against broly and the parallel universe they are in collapse after Fu gets his energy, jiren never wins and struggles immensely obviously broly in xeno is wayyy stronger than the anime but the games in it Always maintain the chain of power, it is extremely constitent
@@wanted2657 when it comes to the placement of cannon characters and their power in lore, XenoVerse is consistent as is Kakarot especially kakarot since toyirama (rip) overlooked story aspects that were added and weren't in the anime or manga
Not saying it's super reliable but it's a good basis in wait for the show to return and officially answer these questions
@@superrobo if you believe what I'm saying is wrong then there's no saving you but I'll give it one last attempt before giving up on you.
1. The anime statement id have to pull up more information on but I'm mainly here for dbx2 point but I'll briefly comment on the anime one. When whis says there is a mortal that not even a God of destruction can defeat. That is plural in the sense it is a general blanket statement. If I say not even a doctor can treat cancer that doesn't mean only one can't and the rest could potentially. It means no doctor amongst all of them can treat your cancer. So in the anime when whis says that he is referring to all of them not just one. We only try to pretend he is saying one cuz obviously as per the manga we know beerus's goal post moved. Plus you can ignore this if it is wrong but didn't beerus react In a way that is implied he was being targeted in that statement as well? If you have a clip of the scene please send it so we can see together cuz I can't find it and am purely speaking out of memory for that specific point.
2. As per the dbx2 where I do have the entire mission right in front of me in game on my Xbox right now, literally the supreme Kai of time word by word says
"broly NOW has the power to keep up with Gogeta After he turns SSBlue!!! How are we gonna fix this one?!!"
Also the mission clearly says defeat broly. So based on story telling and progression of the game. If Jiren lost to broly who was the only capable fighter on the battle field cuz everyone Including your character were out of the battle field. How did they fix the timeline? If Broly won then the timeline is failed. If Jiren won then balance is restored and the next mission can progress. My friend there is no conceivable way broly won that fight. Narrative implications as well as story progression clearly point towards Jiren winning that fight. Also Jiren just transformed for the sake of it. He didn't even fight broly prior to transforming. Broly was too fixated on Goku as Jiren again pure quotes from the thing says "why won't you fight me?" Then transforms saying "You will fight me beast".
So I could maybe give you the first point cuz idc about that but the dbx2 you are 1000% wrong
broly also has the statements of being the strongest in the super hero promotional material, and has a statement that only if cell max was fully completed then not even broly could win by toriyama. so if you do count toriyamas words then broly can beat the same cell max that gohan beat, who both gohan and cell max have numerous statements for their power being above goku aswell. (not current goku post super hero)
He said he was only using the Broly movie Broly not the one from the DBS superhero who had been training for three weeks and got stronger
@@ty-ray1307 the statements are not about the broly who trained but the movie broly. They show movie broly in the heros movie
@@abp_gvo_2275 that would contradict the statement made about Gohan and Cell Max being the strongest battle in history which put it over full power Broly and suppressed Gogeta
@@ty-ray1307no it doesn’t contradict the statement because the broly movie came out before the Super hero movie which means the statement from the broly movie only applies to the events that happened before the Broly movie what are you talking about this is basic knowledge
@@legendseeker6944 I think you are confused The top comment believes that the Broly that fought Gogeta is being used as the bar against a completed cell max while I am arguing that they were referring to a superhero Broly as the measuring stick
Gohan vs Cell Max was said to be the strongest battle in history meaning the power displayed in their final clash has to be greater than that of Full power Broly and a suppressed Blue Gogeta
So I disagree with the take that Broly movie Broly is stronger than Cell Max
Hasn't Jiren been training ever since he got his ass beat by Goku? So imagine a Jiren with even more power and speed than before, with actual technique and style instead of just raw strength. So i'd say Jiren can easily manhandle Broly considering Broly has to stay in Berserk for quite a bit of time (around like 1 hour 30 mins) to even reach Full Power Mastered SSB level in the Broly movie. So using that with a slightly higher multiplier cause he hasn't went Berserk since, he'd be like UI ~Sign~ level if Jiren wouldn't pull a Android 17 and beat his ass on the spot instead of waiting nearly 2 hours for bro to reach Ui strength.
Isn't this just a hypothetical jiren?
That's is by all accounts not fair as you could make him how ever strong you wanted if you say we're using jiren after the top
Jiren already has teqnique he was trained by his old master as a kid who was a martial artist. He isnt just raw strength.You can clearly see that by how hes able to control his ki so easily and the way hes so calm fighting ui omen goku. He didnt start using raw strength until he broke his limits to push mui goku.
Plus he has never trained with his angel or recieved any god training all his strength was earned by himself. His own strength already rivaled gods even surpassing them. So post top jiren that is continuing training is overkill.
Broly is just raw strength nothing else hes getting mandhandled everytime in a fight against jiren whos not only a martial artist but is flat out smarter, faster, and more powerful. Never understood this debate broly was never above jiren.
@@kingbevan1993 again isn't this just an assumption?
Weve seen it before that character or atleast antagonist from past arcs with supposed crazy potential become washed or standardised if they returned. So again using a post top jiren is by all accounts cheating as we could literally make him as strong as we'd want him to be with no conformation at all
@@XRaiden1 dawg frieza is a frequent returning past antagonist with crazy potential. He was nothing after Z returned years later in rof rivaling ssb. He was left in the dust during top came back arcs later and now is the strongest character in the series outside of dieties. This is litterally due to training and honing his potential.
Dude even broly who after broly movie was basically fodder due to goku and vegeta achieving new heights and fighting way stronger villians came back years later in superhero seeing much more improvement than before. Same theme he trained.
Jiren definitly would be way stronger now. Somebody who bases his whole identity/purpose off absolute strength and has trained to reach that goal before would just stop because he lost one time. Even in jirens absence goku and vegeta till this day brings up jiren despite how strong they have gotten since then. Vegeta even taking jirens style of meditation seeing him as still a fighter to admire and learn from.
@@XRaiden1 So again where is this whole idea antagonist from past arcs become washed? Most antagonist in db are dead and dont even return. previous antagonist arent even antagonist anymore example being piccolo and vegeta. Even granolah was redeemed. Only character that statement kind of applies to is hit. Even then top hit in the manga has stated hes trained physically and relied less on his timeskip since his fight with goku back in u6 arc. its actually shown he improved physically when he teamed up with goku against jiren with goku amazed as to how well hit was able to block jirens punches. Unfortunatly hits opponent was jiren of all people so in that case he looked washed. Regardless if you train you can climb to the top and thats even more true if your gifted already.
Monaka solos both no difficulty (i have been paid to write this comment)
Who is holding you at gunpoint?
N-N-No one.....maybe..@@dragonvonwolf5978
In superhero it was stated that cellmax would be stronge rthsn broly at his fp if he was at his completed state. Beast gohan who is shown to surpass mui goku,the same mui goku that shit on jiren, struggled with cellmax when he was weakened and current broly is arguably weaker than he was in earth in terms of power. Vegeta and goku also said that power= speed,strength,senses,etc. So if broly is superior to beast gohan and mui goku at his peak in terms of actaul power. Then broly ( at his peak)>beast gohan>mui goku
Spew whatever bullshit headcannon you want, in a straight up no gimmicks fight, 1 on 1, Jiren would fold broly clean.
broly would win it is stated that he is the strongest opponent they have faced so far and the broly movie takes place after the TOP
Shut up fanboy you just like him more
@@ProphetOP3 whoa calm down Jahmal, don't pull out the nine
@@Copuim-i8v😂😂😂
@@Copuim-i8vlol
@@ProphetOP3relax dawg he’s pulling up receipts💀
They literally said Jiren is barely stronger than SSB Goku and Vegeta and yet the jiren glazers still in denial
I hate dragon ball fans bc goku saying someone stronger than beerus isn't accurate at all like GOKU HAS NEVER FOUGHT A FULL POWER BEERUS SND BEERUS HIMSELF HAS NEVER WORRIED ABOUT BROLY OR ANYONE smh whis statements are the only one who statements would matter
Goku has seen Beerus fight during the GOD exhibition in the manga. If you guys used the most up to date and real logic..eg. the manga for super you would have known this for years. Broly beats Jiren 10/10 times, and Belmod was always fodder/Quitela beat him in arm wrestling/to a standstill. You “fans” are disappointing
@@eynjay8046Goku states he doesn't understands whats happening on battle
@@God_Enjoyer no he states “everyone is so powerful their strength is mind blowing” he then states how he can’t see who’s fighting who, and it’s been established since original dragon ball that what they cannot see they can sense. They also have God ki so saying they cannot sense another God is a slow take.
@@eynjay8046Velmod is not fodder. Compared to other gods maybe. But fodder god would be sidra and still his full power would be blue kioken goku level
@@Scalerlord not fodder as in weak per say , fodder as that lvl of power has been one shot capable since the Moro arc as we have seen Moro 73 one shot UI sign Goku who was comparable if not slightly above his TOP self at that moment. If they get one shot they’re officially fodder
*Broly goes SSJ 2*
Jiren: 💀
A straw ki blast hits chelie he's cooked
Broly fought a stronger version of Goku and Vegeta
Blue goku from the broly movie isn't stronger than mui from top
Jiren was slapping around ssb goku kaioken 20 , vegeta blue evolution and 17 in base form , not even full power base form.
But there's a catch, dragon ball super power scaling is garbage 😂
Broly Movie SSB and Top SSB aren’t equal but the Broly Movie SSB is just a little stronger by assumption, the zenkais given after the TOP would be substantial but we don’t know much.
@@rae5057but theres no mui in movies
@@God_Enjoyer im yea but since he could access it at the time he was overall stronger in the top but in the broly movie his blue form was fs stronger
I find it funny that there are still people debating this when the answer is crystal clear, Goku in the manga says that by fusing into Gogeta and defeating Broly they emerged from their previous events(referring to T.O.P) Stronger than ever, this automatically puts Gogeta blue > MUI Goku, and it's not even close
No, there is not a huge difference in power between Gogeta Blue and Broly, Broly endured the God Punisher, the Meteor Explosion, and many more attacks, Gogeta was not going lightly, The reason why Broly did not hit any attack is because he was a wrathful beast.
If Gogeta had gone directly to God, and not to Blue, Broly would have ended up adapting and becoming stronger, Broly in ssj went from being inferior to base Gogeta (confirmed by the movie guide) to when Gogeta became ssj being able to match him.
The novel stated that Gogeta used a “hint” of his true power so no Broly is not close to Gogeta
@@ty-ray1307 So that Kamehameha that was intended to kill, that meteor explosion and the soul punisher is a "hint"?
@@gabrielvb678 Gogeta could have definitely fought with more ferocity you saw throughout the fight that he started amping up his power Gogeta never fought Broly with full strength in fact he is shown powering up only once in his blue state and was actually happy Broly escaped
@@ty-ray1307 Whis said one more attack and the battle was over, and Gogeta was serious about the fight so he wasn't going lightly.
This is genuine copium
1. Not only do they not fuse in the manga (it's a 2 panel thing where gogeta quickly taps the events of the movie) unless you're talking bout the novel? And in the novel they never make that statement either
2. Yes there is a super massive gap between gogeta blue and broly, tanking doesnt mean hes even slightly comparable to his opponent (using this exact same logic base goku who was tanking punches from [pre-full power up] jiren wasnt really that far behind him [which is objectively false)
3. The reason why broly didnt land any hits was because he was massively outgapped in EVERY regard. Never compare them again
4. From his fight with gogeta blue it's obvious that even a serious ss3 gogeta couldve beaten broly
5. Using feats base jiren>>>ssj broly (broly couldnt k.o a frieza for over an hour vs jiren oneshotting hin)
Ok but heres the thing
using this logic for the conclusion, current Goku should also be stronger than the gods by a long shot right? yet hes still not beating Beerus
this will have to mean that Jiren was only stronger than Belmod and any weaker G.o.Ds and whether you think Goku knows how strong Beerus is at his best would decide if you think hes right by saying Broly is on that level
and I do believe Goku has seen Beerus at his full power before (just hasnt directly faught him in it)
Don't forget the G.O.D.s are not the same in skill or power! Just because its said that Jiren is stronger than Balmond does not mean he's stronger than Beerus.
broly was basically mahoraga
The strongest enemy, yes but remember jiren wasn’t an enemy, he was a pride trooper , a freedom fighter .
Ikari form also gains yellow eyes.
You guys clearly haven't considered that Jiren is stackable.
Before watching the video i give my thoughts on jiren vs broly
in toriyama's eyes jiren fought 3 blue level characters (goku vegeta freeza) and was defeated using teamwork
Broly too fought two blue level characters and overpowered them and only way to defeat was to fuse
For me broly is stronger of the two
I don’t disagree with your end thought but you got quite a bit of stuff wrong justifying your decisions. For starters, Beerus is confirmed the strongest God of Destruction. If you reference the manga during the in between of the Moros and Granola arcs, where Whis is explaining UI and UE, he showed that if Vegeta and Goku were on God of Destruction and Angel tier lists, they’d both be at the bottom, but also showed who tops said lists. He also tanked a combined attack from 11 other gods and was in the finals of the God tournament before TOP. Jiren’s God of Destruction is the weakest out of the gods. SSJ God Goku was NOT trading equally with Beerus. Beerus was using 70% of his power in his base form and this was before we found out that all gods of destruction have a far superior Hakai form. Lastly, Golden Frieza was not stronger or equal to SSB, as in both timelines, Vegeta and Goku both defeated him in SSB. I’d honestly make the bold claim that Goku and Vegeta were not going all out while in SSB. With that logic that’s mean Goku was going all out when he trained Gohan and Krillen pre tournament. They clearly did not want to kill him but also realized how quick he was adapting so they fused to shut it down quickly. In a drawn out fight, I honestly think Goku would have found a way to beat Broly solo
In the manga you clearly see beerus is stronger than all the other gods of destruction they have a free for all and all of them attack beerus first. Belmod couldn't hold a candle to beerus 😂
Not exactly, he dodged them all because of Ultra Instinct, although the fact that Vermouth, Quitela and Beerus remained standing implies that they are a little stronger.
70% of fans dont know how strong is Jiren they said broly is stronger than Jiren,but the question its Jiren is stronger than Broly,Jiren is the most stronger character for my mind he is maybe than Beerus,Jiren defeat Goku,Vegeta,no17 and Frieza and wasn't using hes his full power he uses 40/100 ! So stop with this,Jiren is stronger than Broly !👍
jiren wins mid - hard diff but if broly keeps adapting broly would win
id say jiren would win since he acutally has BIQ meanwhile broly has lost his mind but if broly started of at full power broly would win
Manga Broly washes Jiren, and it’s not even close😂 Jiren wouldn’t even make it past Brolys initial ssj transformation, he’s definitely not beating a enraged FPSSJ Broly who is directly stated to be a rival for Beerus on two different occasions🥱 Jiren was compared to Belmod who is absolute fodder of a GOD and couldn’t beat an initial UI Goku with massive stamina drain. He’s also stated by Vegeta himself too have not been that powerful in the superhero movie while Broly is stated to be stronger than Cell max who beat Golden piccolo and was a rival for Gohan. He also didn’t get one shot by Gohan like Goku did😂 please debate me so I could slam you and anyone who disagrees. There’s too much evidence for y’all to still be debating this then say “iTs NoT A dEbAtE bRo” you, this RUclipsr and whoever agrees will get the smack down by me today I got time n ima spit on you with str8 facts fanboi🥱🥱🥱🥱
@@eynjay8046 then make your own comment so that more people can see you and have a debate nobody is gonna have a argument here so make your own comment.
@@legoman8518 I already did
@@eynjay8046 oh ok
The menace himself vegito would shit on broly and jiren
If it's manga versions Broly stomps, Jiren hasn't appeared since ToP while Broly is only getting stronger.
Anime is tricky cus Jiren has these weird beyond GoD statements, all of them are super vague though. Broly also has statements being above any previous enemy (and Jiren was called an enemy 3 times in ToP), Broly is also stated above Imperfect Cell Max who is above Goku and Vegeta in the movie. Broly is also directly stated stronger than Jiren and that Jiren is literally only ssbe vegeta from top level but with better control lmfao
It was stated not even Broly could defeat Cell Max which implied Broly was the strongest after Gohan Beast, is there any need for further discussion?
It wouldnt make any sense to say for example "Not even Krilling could beat cell max!" Yea no sh*t, cause he doesnt scale up to that. They could have compared Cell Max to MUI Goku for example but they decided to scale him to Stronger than Broly, that much should be enough.
Edit: Goku and Gohan Beast also spar and Gohan knocks Goku out of Ultra Instinct, and every time this happened to Goku it was a sign of Goku being overpowered. You can call it BS that Gohan grew so quickly but the fact is Gohan > Broly > Goku
Broly went up against BEAST GOHAN Who can rival black friezas power
Its not even a question broly can beat jiren in base with a finger
this debate talsk about broly in the movie and jiren in the anime
not manga broly
also the manga has worse feats then the anime
Let's clarify something mui Goku and Jiren are not stronger than Super Blue Gogeta, just the fact that you even thought that was insane. It was shown and proven that Gogeta had to go Ssb to even have an edge Broly. And it has been said time and time over again that Master mui Goku it's not stronger than Beerus an mui Goku was stronger than jiren, so in what world do you think Jiren is stronger than Broly when Broly what's clearly shown to be just as strong as Super Saiyan Gogeta and said to be as strong as beerus. Broly obliterates Jiren hands down
It was Frieza, not Vegeta who interfered in the fight
Well wouldn’t Broly getting his ass beat by Jiren break his limits too
OMG THIS IS THE VIDEO I WANTED TO SEE FROM YOU!
THE GOAT HIMSELF AVENT
You just can't use the anime and manga, they are 2 different continuities and these arguments are so bad.
Broly and Jiren are both enemies since they are both called such in the promotional material, goku from blue in his second fight in the ToP was able to fight jiren on equal terms to his UI omen counterpart, trading blows and parrying attacks, so he got massively stronger, since he wasn't even in SSJBK20 but just in SSJB, then lost, got a zenkai, lost in UI, got MUI, his body gave up and got another zenkai, the first zenkai was a boost greater than 20 times, and he got at least 2 others since he lost MUI and then got fatigued and damaged when throwing jiren off the stage with frieza.
So he is bare minimum more than 400+ times stronger than a hypothetical SSJBK20 goku who fought jiren in his MUI fight, who would be 400+ times stronger than his first jiren fight (he should be much stronger, since he also fought kefla) and he didn't even bother going SSJBK20 or telling vegeta to go SSJBE, so he thought that the difference between yellow hair SSJ Broly (who is weaker than green hair LSSJ Broly) was greater than the difference between pre awakening jiren and him at full power and vegeta, and they'd both be 400+ times stronger here, but he thought that broly grew way too strong, then broly proceeded to fight for an entire hour, which was much longer than the duration of his past fight with vegeta, goku and both if them put together, so he at least grew more in that hour than what he did in the past 3 fights, and in some minutes he grew hundreds of times stronger only against vegeta, since he went from base vegeta level to at least stronger than SSJ2 vegeta level, since vegeta felt the need to go SSJG, then got a 10× boost with hikari and went from below SSJG vegeta level to SSJB goku level, then used a 50× multiplier with SSJ which would be only 5× times stronger than ikari and then fought for one hour, then grew against base Gogeta, who went SSJ and Broly adapted, so Gogeta went SSJB and Broly was growing stronger, he even went into LSSJ and grew more, but the gap was much greater than what Broly could do so he lost.
If you took initial Broly vs Jiren, Jiren would win, but if you took both at full power Broly would rip Jiren apart, it wouldn't even be close
Jiren knocked out MUI Goku in the manga. Beast Gohan who's comparable to MUI Goku fought Broly and Broly was struggling at full power vs Gohan. So we can conclude that Jiren > Broly. Even Whis mentions Jiren has limitless potential.
@@noire.blackheart no that is just horrible, ssbe vegeta from the moro arc is stronger than mui goku from the top, broly was also stated to be the strongest "man" ever and that when he unleashes his power "none" can stop him, in the manga it's a horrible mismatch even worse than the anime, since broly would probably butcher jiren, and taking top jiren isn't fair to him since he'd probably loose to current ssjg goku or worse
No, different arcs@@noire.blackheart
@@ΦάντασματοῦΘεοῦ Moro says that Vegeta blue evolved is not even close to Goku's sign, there is no comparison between this Vegeta vs Goku, Vegeta becomes stronger than Jiren and Broly with the ultra ego
@@gabrielvb678 he says that of the same arc, i was talking about different arcs, since the guy also was
its crazy to me that even tho in the manga beerus made it clear he is stronger than both ultra instinct goku and hakai vegeta
yall still make it sound like jiren is stronger than beerus
plus the fact that even after 2 extra arcs and multiple powers ups goku in a better and stronger version of ultra instinct was on par with beast gohan who fought on par with broly who adapted to gohan and even unlocked a controlled super saiyan form
even ignoring that the manga itself proved you wrong about jiren being stronger than beerus
unless you want to say tornament of power jiren at full power is on the same level as hakai vegeta or ui goku from the current arcs then jiren stands no chance against broly
jiren wins............
Loses*
No
Everyone should stop debating in general, as it cause arguments and problems
In the manga when broly fought gohan beast in pefected ssj he was kinda holding his own tho even if gohan beast was still stronger he wasn’t that much stronger so if he went full power ssj at that moment i feel like he would have beat gohan and since gohan is relative too a perfected mui goku and perfected mui goku should be stronger than jiren then doesn’t that mean if broly fought jiren in full power ssj then he would mop the floor with him🤔
You can correct me if im wrong i just been thinking about it for a long time
Accurate
I like the points you raised.
You raised them correctly and well
I just want to say that frieza was able to fight agains lssj broly for one and a half hour in his golden form while he got destroy by one punch from jiren
I think it'd be very close, but I could see Jiren winning if they're both going all out. Jiren is a very well put together fighter, so he could fairly easily determine strategies to deal with Broly imo. Broly is a rampaging beast, and Jiren constantly remarks that just having high power means little if you can hardly control it. There is the chance that all that power does wind up allowing him to simply just push through Jiren's attacks, since he managed to go fairly full force against Gogeta without being super devastated. All in all, tough call.
what about if Broly trains and unlocks super Saiyan blue
U do realise that broly forced goku and vegeta to run away and fuse right. Goku and vegeta never even thought about fusion against jiren when there universe was at stake
jiren was bodying them constant times
@@Toddles yh and broly forced them to fuse
Exactly with even Vegeta (while being cocky) opting to fight and beat Jiren ALONE. Against Broly, he literally FLED
I don't think Vegeta knew how to do the fusion dance. In the DBS Broly movie he had to be thought how to do it and even then they failed at least twice.
If they tried to do it at the T.O.P they would be taking a huge risk of getting eliminated. Also unless Jiren let them fuse they would have trouble fusing while getting attacked
@@trueaura369 there were 2 kais there with potara
Brother, in the manga, Broly fought with Beast Gohan in only his Super Saiyan state, Broly wins no doubt.
Broly gets massive zenkai from gogeta blue so it's make sense
u idiot he is talking bout the broly movie and tournament of power jiren not the manga
still was getting played by gogeta and not even landing a single blow jiren still wins
@the_rizzliantes
There's zenkai boosts. Hes gotten stronger,
Plus he was gaining passive power level on vampa, if what frieza said about training with paragus being nothing is true.
HE LITERALLY CAN'T LOSE POWER HE ONLY GAINS IT! its pretty ridiculous, and the s coming from someone who's favorite character is broly.
God bless
@@The_Rizzilantes Jiren would also be played by gogeta, its litteraly Goku with his power significantly magnified.
I’m tired of these DB scalers on TikTok who don’t think. 😂 this is my favorite debate and I’m glad someone said something with simple facts said over and over in the actual anime/manga for once.
In my opinion it would have been cool if Goku was able to go mui against broly but it somehow still not be enough and to the point where his body gives out again and thus forcing the fusion at that point that way we would have a direct model for comparison between the two fights
Jiren beat MUI goku 1v1 in the manga and the anime. In the anime it’s closer but he is still able to outlast Goku and only lost cause of frieza and 17 who are both ssb level. And idk why people scale Broly to ssb gogeta as if it’s close cause Broly was absolutely destroyed by gogeta just like Jiren would be
But can they beat goku tho?
Jiren prolly could because he needed friezas help to eliminate him out the ring and he’s training right now so I’m pretty sure Jiren is stronger then goku but he’s definitely way stronger then broly
It is clearly Broly.
3:46 bro what 😂 you eman Frieza
Alot of this arguement becomes baseless, when you realize you used 2 different continuties, as a single answer. Both are different (manga and anime), potrayed the fights/characters differently, especially goku and the maincast. So alot of this evidence dosent work........
Jiren wins. Why ? Because Broly is unexperienced. If Jiren would notice that Broly grows in power fast he would destroy him in an instance.
goku solos like if you agree
Bro thinks he’s getting likes ☠️
@@Name8Rbruh goku is currently stronger than broly 🤣 there’s plenty evidence in the manga. I’d be happy to enlighten if you want
goku is NOT soloing sun wukong
@@kotsiru well of course lol i don’t think that has any relevancy
Alright bruddy you are NOT tricking anyone with that shi bro 😭
Shimo vs Ghidorah be like:
Without watching this the answer is broly clearly. They literally said broly is the strongest enemy.
They also said cooler is the strongest in the universe in that movies promotion. They also labeled cells battle power infinity. We have to assume all of this is true or none of this is true. U can't pick and choose what you want.
Also beerus is an enemy and beerus smokes broly
@WildFang39 yeah, at that time. And unlike the other non cannon enemies the creator was directly involved with the broly movie. You can say whatever you want. But I'm going to believe the statements from the creators over anyone's head cannon.
@@thomaswelte5017 that's literally not headcanon and Akira toriyama made battle of Gods so I have like no clue what ur talking about
Jiren's battle IQ is much highet than Broly's he won't give him the chance to adapt to his movement.
Don't forget that Jiren was always fighting multiple opponents at once. Goku+Vegeta
Then Goku, Frieza, Android 17
The reason you're wrong is because current Broly is stronger than Broly movie Broly. That's a unfair look at their power.
That said it's also important to note that Belmond is not as powerful as Beerus. In the manga it is obviously shown that Beerus outclasess many of the other Gods. Exceptions being the one's form universe 1 and 12. The only other GoD that comes close is Champa.
Didn’t Toriyama confirm Broly to be stronger
My Skin is cold ! Is all I have to say
Superhero Broly>>Jiren>Broly movie Broly
Bro at that time it was stated that broly is the strongest guy Goku and vegeta ever faced
jiren slaps broly why its that hard to think about it
if broly trains then he can beat jiren, stop glazing jiren acting like a god of destruction power is unattainable
I believe as one person said it's not 100% either way it very much depends on how jiren takes the fight initally! If he lets broly become a problem he will but if not it won't be a long battle.
Now the difference is how well did broly's traning go? Can he use that power in an intelligent way after studying under whis? If so then jiren can actually be pushed because heres the kicker
Jiren might not be getting stronger unlike the Saiyans so I think for now the winner is Jiren but it could be broly depending on when the match is
5:45
most DB fan to that question, which i bring out myself, decided to believe Beerus.
Don't mess with Dragon Ball fans...
I feel like jiren is not stronger than belmod as when all the gods fought in the manga belmod was the only one unscathed and doesnt need healing
If broly trained more than he would win
Bruh it never said a surpressed jiren was stronger it just said a mortal stronger than the gods it never said in which state and if you think beginning TOP goku is beating beerus you gotta go😂
Do Goku vs Saitama ☠️🙏💯
Chichi vs Saitama is more fair
@@HighAndLower LMFAO real
I don’t see how Jiren realistically wins against Broly if we’re using them at the points when they’ve displayed their feats. Broly broke through a dimension while fighting, all the while Jiren lost to 3 characters in their base forms.
Jiren shaking infinite void while approaching to goku in ep109
Not the concrete feat you think. When majin super buu was able to rip through dimensions to get back on earth through just a scream. It not even a technique or magic. Just raw power and he is way weaker than 90% of super characters we know most of.
Manga Jiren never lost to mui goku though
3:41 ion believe goku and Broly were even I think goku was slightly stronger bc ssb would have defeated Broly . Thats why Frieza killed Paragus bc he saw that Broly was losing to ssb .
DBZ Movie 14 Battle Of Gods; Saiyan God Goku 6. Lord Beerus 10. Whis 15.
DBZ Movie 15 Resurrection F, Super Saiyan Blue Goku 7. It was also stated by Whis if Goku & Vegeta teamed they could defeat Lord Beerus. This statement is key, remember it.
DBS Movie 16 Broly; Goku Blue & Vegeta Blue with teamwork cannot defeat Broly’s Limit Breaker. Prior to this, Goku Blue was beating SSJ Broly. Essentially u can call SSJ Broly equal to Goku Blue, even tho, Goku Blue had the advantage in that fight.
In the Tournament Of Power, Goku Blue Kaio-Ken x20 & Vegeta Blue Evolution cannot defeat Jiren The Grey 100%. M.U.I. Goku is a Limit Breaker. Jiren’s enraged creates his Limit Breaker.
Fans don’t like to accept this, but based on the Lore of The Movies. Which is canon events directly from Akira Toriyama. As well as Super Anime. M.U.I. Goku surpassed Lord Beerus 10.
Jiren 100% is Massively Overwhelmingly & Exceedingly Stronger than SSJ Broly. We know this bcuz Goku Blue was beatin SSJ Broly. However, Broly’s Likiter Breaker is Massively, Overwhelmingly & Exceedingly Stronger than Jiren The Grey’s Limit Breaker.
When it comes to 100% Maximum Power Level, Jiren beats Broly. When it comes to Limit Breaker’s, Broly beats Jiren. Remember, Goku Blue Kaio-Ken x20 & Vegeta Blue Evolution are equals. I’m DBZ Movie 15, Whis clearly stated, Goku & Vegeta together can defeat Lord Beerus.
Goku & Vegeta cannot beat Jiren 100% Maximum Power Level. Goku can beat SSJ Broly w/o Vegeta. Goku & Vegeta cannot beat Broly’s Limit Breaker. This shows Jiren & Broly are relative, even tho, Broly’s Limit Breaker is Stronger than Jiren’s Limit Breaker.
The contention between fans is due to accepting the manga while rejecting the anime. That’s illogical. When it comes to canon of Super. The DBZ/ DBS Movies are Tier 1 canon bcuz made by Akira Toriyama. The movies are his will. The anime follows Toriyama’s will, with interference by Toei Animation.. Tier 2 canon. Toyotaro’s DB Super Manga is Tier 3 Canon. The power level hierarchy connects. The Anime & Movies are interlinked & connected, whereas there are disconnects in the manga do to differences. The power hierarchy of Broly being Stronger than Jiren connects in the manga.
This video LITERALLY fails to acknowledge that the goku that fought broly is stronger than the goku that fought jiren🤦🏻♂️...and that broly in just his super saiyan form was way too much for blue goku..(bare in mind...broly transformed AGAIN and bro still thinks jiren is stronger😭
The tournament is barley over based on vegeta quote in broly movie so they can't get stronger ridiculous amount in such short time between arc, blue kaiokenx20 still godstomped regular blue forms in broly movie cause it's 20 times of blue power combined
Initially Jiren would beat broly but if the fight drags for too long, broly has a chance to win
Would MUI Goku smack Broly? I think so but not sure how he scales relative to SSB Gogeta
Video starts at 4:50 guys
Beginning is just a movie recap
All sites of google is saying jiren is stronger are they all fake 😅😅
To put the anwser short Jiren would win bc of how he used his power and his experience carry too and put him down quickly and thats how jiren would win,But if Broly keeps adapting he will mostly likely push jiren to his FP and tbh it would not be an ez for Lssjfp broly unless he keeps adaping but for me Broly wins mid high diff (This fight would break the Internet again if it happens 💀)
Broly slaps
Why’d he say Vegeta killed paragus?😂
Broly vs jiren? There is no answer. Even writters don't know who would win
Thanks For this! Love your content ❤❤❤❤
love goku :)
No way you're saying that Jiren is stronger than Beerus 😭 . Man no God of Destruction except Quitela is even close to Beerus as of now . Jiren on the other hand is maybe slightly stronger than Belmod and according to everyone and I mean everyone Belmod is probably the 2nd weakest or the weakest God of Destruction of all and he's told to be only about a million years old at max but Beerus and Champa are about 22 crore( 220 million) years ancient . And according to the latest Manga it's confirmed that Broly and Gohan have the highest raw power (after Black Frieza) and they were somewhat approximately equal or very close and according to the DB magazine Frieza is in Gods league now which means Frieza has technically surpassed lower tier Gods of Destruction (confirmed)and is on par with the mid tier ones or maybe has surpassed them with slight margin but still not close to Beerus and it was said that Perfect Cell Max would have surpassed that Black Frieza too and Beerus even told Vegeta that if he was born in a different universe he would have certainly become the God of Destruction candidate with ease which means Beerus technically confirmed that Vegeta with his imperfect UE can replace lower tier Gods and this basically confirmes that Goku , Vegeta and others have already surpassed lower tier Gods by a good margin so I don't think Jiren could go toe to toe with a full powered Gohan/ Frieza/ Broly/ Goku/ Vegeta without any significant powerup .
Now this is what I about the power scaling in DBS
Zeno>Daishinkan>Royal Zeno guards>all angels( since they're all supposed to be stronger than their respective Gods so putting them all together)> Beerus>~Quitela>>> Black Frieza~Mid tier Gods of Destruction>~Gohan Beast ( max power)>~Broly (max power)>Goku~Vegeta> Orange Piccolo~> Jiren( without any significant powerup)>~Lower tier Gods of Destruction>Belmod>other strong characters.
if thats your answer that Jiren is stronger than Broly, Then I guess your answer to SSB Gogeta Vs MUI Goku is MUI Goku is stronger than SSB Gogeta? right?
Paragus ate that guy
Bu.
Lly is grown good in german
T.O.P Jiren stomps. For one base Jiren would legit blink broly away he's easily still stronger than ssbkkx20 Goku and blue evo Vegeta.
Ikari is the same case as even if Jiren toyed with broly till he got there he is still not even above blue goku.
There is no scenario where he would achieve ssj he would just simply get stronger in ikari until he basically stamina drained he would never reach anything near his ssj power. But let's say he does, Jiren LEGITIMATELY see him in a beserker state, remember kale/kefla, and one tap him using his FP in base. (not limit bfeaker)
The only way you get broly equal to Jiren is by using his fpssj state but that isn't possible. AGAIN we're tossing broly a bone and saying hes already enraged and is in fpssj after getting his by ssj gogeta a couple of times.
Equal standings drop both of these characters a max power and jiren still facepalms broly into vampas core. Jiren has more BIQ, is just way more intelligent, Is physically stronger (until broly adapts) and legit has weapons from the pride troopers, we've just never seen them used since the T.O.P banned shit like that.
And even if you argue a current broly, a hypothetical current Jiren still obliterates, he keeps training. At that point broly gon lose to everybody he a fraud that is NOT my goat.
Ssj3 Z Broly one taps super broly no diff 🗣️🔥🔥🔥
To be fair I see what your saying about the gods of destruction and I do see your reasoning with your scaling. But there are a couple of things. One, if we are going off of feats beerus beats jiren and his god of destruction with ease. Two gogeta blue is miles stronger that mui goku, that is not even a debate with how many multipliers come with that form. So the real question you should be asking is can broly beat mui goku(from top). And I would argue he does in fact. The feats that was shown in the gogeta vs broly fight even exceeds that of Goku va jiren The main feat Goku and jiren have is shaking the infinite abyss of nothing…… so they basically shook infinite of nothing which ig is something of infinity but if we look at broly vs gogeta(yes it may not have been what they intended) but they literally broke through reality to just come punching back when broly lost. And if we are true power scales infinity resides within space and time. Space and time as well resides in reality. My point is this is a stupid comparison if your going off of feats just like most dbz fights because power scaling is stupid within dbz. Let the author decide. Both of them are similar but one is already strong and constantly adapting. I would prob give this to broly at the time. But current manga idk I feel like they nerfed my boy broly. Hasn’t been doing much in manga.
bruh seems like you skipped all chapters of the manga and ignored the parts where beerus made is clear he was still stronger than goku and vegeta and even black freiza making the statment about belmund being stronger than beerus invalid and probably just whiz taunting beerus to train more you make it sound like whiz has never made a mistake or told a lie also didnt vegeta later said that jirens ki wasnt that bigger than thiers jiren just had better ki control ? broly was also fighting against beast gohan thats stronger than the version of goku that fought jiren get all your facts right bruh dont just make stuff up to fit your narrative
without watching video i could say Jiren would win easy
Little additons id add to the broly section of the video.
#1. Ikari gains yellow eyes. Not just aura/size.
#2. His SSJ would stack ontop of his ikari form. Aka a 500x base. Or far stronger than even a SSJ3
+hes still adapting!
Not to mention Brolys increas isn't linear and isn't based on multiplier. Dude has a Limitless kind of growth. Let me remind u....He went from getting shit stomped from a base vegeta. To Throwing hands with a SJ1 gogeta. That said....If gogeta didn't immediately overwhelmed him he would get stronger. I don't understand why ppl even use multipliers when scaling Broly....If u don't stomp his head straight up...he will keep growing till he smacks u. Thats how he works. Now base Broly in Super manga can throw hands with SJblue goku.... Like go and scale that from getting shit stomped from their base form. Now he grew so much he can fight em in his base while they using SJ forms and go and scale that with his rage multiplier we saw on The movie.... Like ITS BROLY HIS POWER WORKS HE MAD HE STRONG. LITERALLY A GO BACK TO MONKEY MOMENT
Broly's SSJ is from his base, not from the Ozaru, when Broly accessed the full power SSJ (the one with green hair) it is x500 to his base state
also if you didnt know belmod was a new g.o.d relatively like tens of thousands of years, while beerus has been a g.o.d for hundreds of millions of years so it wouldnt make sense that a new g.o.d would be stronger than the more experienced one, Also beerus in the manga was shown to defeat all g.o.ds
What source?
@@你真是個同性戀manga
Ur video wrong jiren is stronger then his god of destruction not beerus the manga fixed war the anime messed up about jiren when the late great himself went over jiren power by in super hero’s when vegeta stated jiren wasn’t that much stronger
Then if u look at the manga broly has had that much training but was able to push gohan more then goku was without going full power which would most likely be adapted to the anime