Prepping a Vented Rainscreen for Siding
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- Опубликовано: 7 мар 2016
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Siding installation is one of the last steps in any remodeling project, including this energy retrofit and gut rehab.
The siding in this case will be fastened to furring strips that are screwed through the foam into the studs.
The furring strips provide a drainage cavity for the siding, but they are not always flat.
If fact, they're never flat. You always have to adjust them in, out, or both.
The walls can be wavy because the foam compresses as you fasten it to the wall with the furring strips. It doesn't make sense to try to straighten it as you go because wood moves, things shift, and you'll always need to adjust it before installing siding anyway.
But first things first. The guys go around the house making sure there is enough backing for siding at windows, doors, soffits, corners.
Then, they turn to straightening the walls.
Sometimes it is a small matter of tightening up a little bit
Or adding a screw here and there,
sometimes it is a bigger issue requiring shims,
And sometimes the dips happen right where you don’t want them to.
David seems pretty cool and collected, but if you want to get him going, waste his expensive screws.
Those six inch structural screws cost about 25 cents each and they can really eat up a siding budget if you're not careful.
When the strapping is mostly straight, they roll up the string line and break out a straight edge to dial it in in a few key spots-
Like where the engineer-homeowner will gaze as he enjoys a cold beer on his back deck.
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Awesome video! This is the kind of stuff I love to see! This is the kind of stuff that you have to do that they never talk about or show on websites and tv shows, they just say "add furring strips..." They fail to mention that you have to go back and even out every single one.
ProTradeCraft thank you for the reply! Do you use horizontal strips on top of the vertical if you’re installing cedar shakes?
@@ProTradeCraft Thank you, I was thinking of using a rainscreen, on my house rather than furring strips when I install cedar shakes. I was just concerned about all the nails from the cedar shakes going through the house wrap in the sheathing creating a million little holes and compromising those elements. Or am I over thinking it?
I like the details!
Thank you!
I built in 2011 with this method (exterior foam), but used 2" high compressive strength foam. No adjustment was required at all.
I think TJ should be doing push-ups for each wasted screw. Nice video.
Thank you. This helped me with a question I had on my shed's siding. I like to see tips on how to overcome results.
you're welcome!
a 1/8th variance is unnoticeable in real life.
Well that's the difference between a diy'er and a professional
It's very noticeable. The wall will look wavy.
Every attic and siding job I have been on usually has at least one spot (colder or leaky) where moisture condenses, sometimes it is slightly discolored and sometimes its black and fuzzy...
Airleaks.
Thanks for the informative video. I have seen others that use CorAvent strudy strips instead of wood. Why didn't you use them?
" ** In situations where exterior rigid foam insulation is being installed, Cor-A-Vent recommends using ¾” thick treated wood furring strips installed over the foam, screwed into the wall studs, to provide a structural fastening point for the siding, and the SV-5 Siding Vent installed at the top and bottom to supply the rainscreen drainage, airflow, and insect screen. "
I know that the screws are expensive but removing one can leave a hole through the air/water barrier.
Way more costly to caulk (tape is impossible) because the caulk must reach the air barrier that is on the other side of several inches of foam and even if you squirt in tons of expensive caulk there's no way to verify that you even plugged the hole.
Let's say you save 100 screws by taking them out, That $25.
Solution : Break the stupid habit of penny pinching.
3 tubes of caulk $21
labor time spent caulking $38
Who is really saving money?
@@2Truth4Liberty or break the habit of wasting screws!
Got to break those bad habits.
Thank you for the video. They have helped me tremendously. I did want to point out something that is a little confusing to me. In this video at 0:27 I saw that the kickout flashing on the bottom of the wall is above the drip cap and in front of the rain shield furring strips however in your other video name "Rainscreen Siding with Furring Strips" the flashing is installed behind the furring strips. What is the right method?
I'm also curious on this as well as why the tape is over the furring strips at 0:22.
What vertical spacing are you using between each screw? Any rules? Looks like it is around 16"
Doesn't drilling in metal screws through the foam insulation provide a thermal bridge for heat to transfer into/out of the insulated living space?
RedShipsofSpainAgain It's all being calculated into a U-value of a wall system. But yes, it does matter and adds up. In this case, I'm guessing, it's negligible.
How do I get y’all out to Ohio to build my place?
Does exterior rigid foam insulation ever get condensation and mold behind it between it and the housewrap?
Interior 2x4 wall is nailed down through the bottom plate into floor joists. At the top, the wall nailed up through the top plate into ceiling joists. Walls parallel to joists need blocking/backing.
What are you shooting for as a variance between your furring strips? 1/16”? I am installing a rain screen and it seems pretty tedious to get them perfectly straight - especially on an older house.
Depends on your finished product. Usually your siding would spec that, kinda like tile vs vinyl flooring, its all based on deflection if that makes sense.
Why screw insulation into the studs in view of rainscreen screws being placed into the studs? Seems like a waste of screws.
He uses as FEW screws as possible in the foam just to hold it in place before strapping.
There’s got to be a better way.
what are those long screws called? I don;t find them at Home Deport or Lowes?
-1 for lack of helpful response
VARocketry there called headlok srews, lowes had best deal on bulk prices between the 2 stores but there expensive
what brand 6 inch screws are you using ? thanks
Not sure, Fred, probably Fasten Master
what do you do on a outside corner ?
David and his crew use wide strips of leftover AdvanTech subfloor as backing for corner boards to flush then out with the furring strips.
Do you really need 6" construction screws just to hold down some furring strips?
You have to go through all the exterior insulation and into the wall sheathing or 2x4s behind the wall sheathing. In their case, they probably have 4 inches of exterior insulation and 3/4" actual thickness of a 1x4 so they have 1 1/4" left over from the original 6 inches.
The furring strips themselves are negligible. However, the furring strips are what holds up the siding (the siding attaches to the furring strips).
How do you know you're hitting the studs when you drive those 6 inchers all the way through?
The stud, normally you can feel it. It is harder than the foam and sheathing, also thicker.
@@sebastiantevel898 Well sure :) But how many misses are you going to have along the way?
@@davidibbitson7585 I was actually joking... LoL.
But on a serious not there are some good and reliable stud finders these days, those should decrease the amount of misses.
Cheers
@@sebastiantevel898 😆
You can mark the stud locations on top on the soffit for example
I'm going to use 1" foam without tape, covered by house wrap, then untreated battens. I thought about two layers of foam but I'm hearing that foam doesn't work below 50 degrees.
The house wrap will help keep the house warm, whereas the foam will help keep the house cool.
(This is a slow pitch over the plate. I look forward to comments. tHanks all).
It would be good to talk to an engineer who understands energy efficiency. The best detail also depends on your climate zone. Why put house wrap outside the foam? Where did you hear that foam doesn't work below 50 degrees?
@@ProTradeCraft tHanks for the reply. tHanks also for your original videos.
There are a number of people who are talking about the foam not working at lower temps. I'll add a link if I can in a moment.
One person went so far as to tell me that adding multiple layers of the foam would not help (vs cost). A similar view is shared by people who spray in foam. They comment that after a few inches, there isn't much improvement.
The foil faced material is a vapor barrier. The materials I have are made by DOW. I called DOW 7/22 and asked them about adding the material to the outside of an existing home. It would create a second vapor barrier. DOW's answer was to not tape the joints, and use their housewrap product. This is what others were saying so the DOW rep simply confirmed the Do Not Tape.
I forget his name, something with an "L" , he is known for his decade plus research in the field. His papers show that vapor will leave out of a wall cavity in both directions.
You hit on the problem. The building science field is evolving, engineers who understand....simply haven't reached a consensus. There is no one person to ask.
Lets try this link and see if it posts.
ruclips.net/video/xdnLOv-zf_o/видео.html
The link worked. Cool.
Mid Atlantic Humid. Currently the belief is that foiled faced foam under a rainwall will help in the summer, whereas not in the winter. Wall cavity insulation will help in the winter for heating.
tHanks again for all your videos.
Why wouldn't you use a continuous furring strip instead of having 2 pieces? Makes no sense I would never be that cheap as to try to save a little material.
thanks for the question. during steps are only eight-feet long, so for walks that are taller than eight-feet, you need to splice.
Well if you forgot to bring the truck with the racks on it you had to get the 16 ft bundle cut in half so it fit in the back of your truck LOL and it doesn't really matter on firming strips if you use two pieces at least not from my professional opinion
Um those fur strips should be moisture treated come on guys. 🤦🏻♂️
A lot of people say that, but the reality is that the furring strips are back there to promote drying, not to sit in the moisture. They are dry 99.9% of the time and they are drying the other .1%.
The space that they create not only allows liquid water to drop away through gravity but the constant airflow is constantly drying the siding/furring
So there's a reason based on logic, but we also have empirical data. When we opened up the walls on Dr. Joe Lstiburek's 20-year old deep energy retrofit in Westford, MA a few years ago, not only was the tape still sticking, the untreated furring strips were dry with no signs of water damage.
Thanks for commenting. It is obvious that you give thought to your assemblies. Many builders wouldn't even think to think of this.
:)
Thanks for your reply I do rain screens for a living and per code u are supposed to use moisture treated fur strips with moisture treated screws lags or nails water does get to those fur strips and they will not dry out they will constantly stay wet little bit of moisture in them moisture travels with air if they’re moisture treated they will last a lot longer. If u use treated the job will last 10 times longer guaranteed. You pull apart one of my rain screens 20 years later then pull that one apart 20 yers later you will see the difference. Mine will look like it just got installed that one maybe not. Your work looks really clean though I’m sure it would last a long time everyone’s been doing it that way forever 👍🏻new code is Moisture treated strips though FYI. Still awesome keep up the beautiful work man
@@dlconstruction5255 where do you live?
ProTradeCraft good old California 👍🏻😎🔨
I don't see PT requirement in the 2018 IRC, are you referring to a local code?
Are you in a wet part of Calif (marine)?