I agree with the assessment of Apotheosis, with one exception. Regarding Star Eaters combo, you're right, it absolutely can't compete. However, you're looking at this from the perspective of complementing a pure damage role. Where it shines is for a buff/debuff player that normally operates a support role. Tractor Cannon or Ghorn + Song of Flame. As a perfect pairing for either, Song of Flame gets a ton of long term damage before ever taking Star Eaters into consideration, while allowing you to re-proc Tractor or Ghorn at your leisure. Having Apotheosis basically gets to extend this state a little bit longer. Sure, it's not as strong as Solar Double Fusions, but using Threaded Needle for Unravelling and Facet of Dominance to get a starting Jolt from our Storm grenade, Prismatic is able to match Solar's damage when both use Apotheosis, thanks to the extra DoT it does during the super, and last little burst it gets at the end. Now staple Star Eaters on top of this, and it's not an even competition anymore. Solar can't keep up with Prismatic. Sure, this would have been the result regardless because Star Eaters goes that hard, but having both is just extra damage on top for doing what you're already doing. I've verified the numbers on it using data from separate runs using components of each half vs original Solar Song of Flame, and if you still want it, I will absolutely put my money where my mouth is and give you a video once I get my hands on one that has both on the same class item.
I have this roll and I SIGNIFICANTLY outclassed my teammates on second encounter with it. The wisp attack from SoF procs demolitionist which auto-reloads weapons. I used a demo/explosive light Apex Predator. Between SoF and apotheosis storm nades, I could fire my entire reserves without reloading once. For comparison, most of my teammates were running frenzy/bait n switch Guillotine. For the Witness, it did better than most but was still far outclassed by Celestial hunter since the melee can't really reach.
Osmio + Star Eater here so far. I've found that Vortex is superior, but only in high end content with beefy enemies to tick off on. If the enemies insta die from the initial throw, vortex does get the energy back. For lower content, I prefer Storm Nade, multiple hits especially on beefier enemies, I get my nade back constantly. I'm still looking for Osmio + Verity, but combining that with Wave Frame Riskrunner Ergo, the riskrunner procs (arc conductor) count towards Verity, so it's just insane add clear and fun build for general play. I've been doing Devour + Weavers for dark dmg along with melee spamming when up for Unraveling and ofc, dark dmg for Transendence. Combine all of this with Ergo Catty + Seasonal sword perks, infinite ammo, hard hitting nades, devour constantly, and Nova bomb. Ez. If doing nightfall or higher content, vortex becomes best with Nova. Storm falls off harder you go. I've been using Vortex with Buried Bloodline with weaken nade and Volatile rounds. Anywho, fun stuff. More fun than melee slide build imo.
@brandonbauckman7383 for some reason, the riskrunner sword chain lightning, counts towards verity stacks, since it's an Arc weapon. And the synergy of Verity is with a wep matching the nade, so yeah, it needs storm nade, but storm nade hits like a Mack Truck after it's stacked up, so it's not bad, and you can spam it because of Osmio in between getting arc conductor kills. This is a for fun build tho, not sure of its viability in things like GMs. For those I would run Vortex and whatever void wep u prefer. Personally, graviton, buried bloodline or collective obligation for me with volatile rounds fragment.
@@xSleiyerdid you mean collective obligation? Was reading your comments for advice but was confused on the last part. Wasn’t sure if you meant collective action perk on a gun or what.
This comment is facts i have verity + osmioncy but more damage on vortex just means it kills quicker which you don’t want for osmo😅 syntho + osmo with the lightning surge aspect is so OP
Synthos alone operates exactly the same for warlock essentially. Big difference being that arcane needle is ranged as fuck, and you dont need the enemy you want to be killed to be surrounded to take advantage of biotic. You can be in a completely seperate location and do big melee damage to an enemy anywhere else, and that feels really good lmao
@@aaronyeager6778 true. I'm just a huge arcane needle fanboy and I love spamming them so my go to's are inmost/syntho and apotheosis/syntho. I just prefer apotheosis because prismatic and the right weapons let you loop the shit out of the abilities. I also just can't give up helion/weavers call and feed the void.
@@joshuamagruder2241 Plus the arcane needles are really nice to proc unravel on a boss, combine that with the fragment where light abilities deal more damage to enemies with a darkness debuff and it's a pretty big increase in super damage, I love those arcane needles aswell honestly.
@@Malthy you missed what I said. I'm saying you can get surrounded in one area, and then throw the melee to an entirely separate area. So like a boss that isn't surrounded by enemies, titans would be shit out of luck in the time it would take to run to the boss and get off their combo. I'm saying warlocks don't adhere to that constraint. And with the way you can Regen abilities with several other pairings on the class item, you have really good melee damage with a ranged melee that has no crazy arc or really any aim requirements. Like I know titans have hammer and shield throw. But imo those suck ass compared to arcane needle
PSA you can have hoil + star eaters pre dps phase and then swap to like apoth veil and star eaters and keep the x6. Been using it to have more debuff nades during dps and its nice.
ive been switching between Necrotic star eater and HOIL star eater for max weapon dps. faster ability cooldowns are for veritys builds and trash phases. I dont see why youd switch to apoth S E, just taking away from shooting your GL
Also, apotheosis might not be the dps meta for bosses. But its excellent for encounters where you dont need to kill ranged bosses. For that 9 seconds after your super ends, you have infinite abilities to charge transcendence. Trasncendence plus something like microcosm will give you your super back incredibly fast. The amount of time you spend in your neutral game is incredibly small. Like obviously you dont want to use apotheosis for boss dps for something like the witness. You wouldnt even rock that on the subclasses it fucks really hard on. But lets take the first and third encounter of salvations edge. You need to rally to the flag in the beginning and then your super/transcendence loop begins and doesnt end.
He’s obviously never seen what it can do to Atheon or Ogres or anything up close…. It’s insane. Grasp ogre goes testing went from 1 mil ish to 1.5ish. 50% dmg increase
Bungie missed an opportunity in not putting one or two of the new exotic pieces' perks on the class items. Matiodoxia would be insane. It's watered down version would just be "enemies affected by arcane needle emit a suspendung blast on death"
well...sadly the only class with arcane needle is warlock so daxia wouldnt work worded in the way it currently is on other subclasses since as i said above they don't have access to arcane needle. now if they worded it to make any power mellee create a suspend blast then that would work and be nuts with both other classes...imagine consecrated blast that suspends everything in its detention leaving them scorched and suspended sounds like a dope anti champion neutral ability 😅
If you use osmiomancy, both the jolt damage and jolt kills caused by the storm grenade count as grenade damage, making you get your storm grenade almost instantly, compared to the void grenade over time.
OOOH then pair with verity does it increase jolt dmg too? i have osmio and Verity combo. edit: so im using carl to testing, and seem like verity didn't increase jolt dmg, and jolt didn't give grenade energy back like void either, only kill when devours active then i get grenade energy back and its alot because jolt kill. but when i kill everything and leave only carl alive and storm grenade give energy back only 2 times, so in ad clear storm are better but in dmg boss and bigger enemy void better.
The reason I was happy about the star eater apotheosis combo was after the super u can continue dps with demolitionist rockets or other weapons because of the increased grenade regeneration speed
Appreciate the considerations on everything, and yeah Warlocks got A LOT of duds, but just wanted to say Spirit of Necrotic is still extremely good despite not getting the poison ramp up. Arcane Needle becomes a plague weapon and ofc there's the option of going in on Lightning Surge which spams beautifully in a build with Transcendent - you can jolt uppercut almost non-stop, only pausing to chuck a weakening super vortex nade. Pair with mods like Hands-On for turbo supers. In harder content where you don't want to be that aggressive, just having poison needles is still exceptional for chewing down tough targets between poison and unravel. If you're running Feed the Void or something like Buried Bloodline to keep the Devour flowing, you don't really even need Osmiomancy or HoIL to be topped up on grenades constantly. There's also the whole synergy with weapons of sorrow to help give you even more incentive to run it - not required to enjoy the perk, but it can certainly be extra effective when you choose to.
Apotheosis + Star eaters with song of flame is really good for some bosses in which you are running tractor. It allows you to run tractor but still also do 2-3m dps per phase. While its situational on a boss to be up close like herald, its def still strong
it’s also amazing on needlestorm for a euphony build, the extra stacking damage on euphony and the bonus on needlestorm makes up for the damage lost on having weaker threadlings than strand
I was using Song of Flame with Acrius because the snap procs trench barrel. Haven't used it in a raid but it's a nice feeling damage rotation for close ranged bosses.
The main situation where I'd argue Apotheosis + Star Eaters is extremely strong is SPECIFICALLY combined with Euphony. You get a buffed needlestorm plus threadling grenade spam to instantly max out the hatchling x25 perk on Euphony for tons of extra damage which actually makes it one of the best DPS weapons in the game without using any heavy ammo. The problem is I'm not sure if the extra damage from star eaters on needlestorm is actually enough to compensate for the lower threadling damage compared to just running Strand with normal Apotheosis, since you're getting threadlings every 3 hits with Euphony as well. I haven't tested it myself but I've heard that Claws might actually be decent for Song of Flame warlocks as supposedly the 2 melee charges increase the rate at which you can spam the melee during the super, with the melee doing significantly more damage than the grenade. The problem is you could just run synthos or star-eaters to have way more damage per melee that way instead.
@@st00pidn00b but why not make a comment about its incredibly good paired with this, then since again if you are farming these exotic class items you are also probably farming euphony.
@NeonUltra95 Exotic class item - 1. Needs one other person ( easily taught) 2. Guaranteed exotic and end. ( only take 20 mins max ) 3. Multiple ways to farm and get your roll. Exotic weapon - 1. Needs 5 other people to do activity ( possible having to teach and they might not understand cuz its the newest raid ) 2. All based on rng to get weapon. 3. Could take multiple hours to not even get. So basing it off a weapon, not everyone can get quick unlike say the warlord exotic that you can also farm pretty quickly, which would pair with a few rolls. It's not ignorance it's logic that probably only 2% of the players have gotten it. So why add it? The dude only said something, probably because he saw a video with someone who has it, and while, yes, it is pretty good again not everyone is gonna have it.
@@st00pidn00b but some people have and saying oh but it would work really well if you have euphony so keep it for that would take a second…. Are you okay?
I'll be the one to vouch for Starfire + Secant filaments, which I think is a sleeper pick Pair it with bleakwatcher + Feed the void, and add 3 copies of the mods that give class energy when your grenade deals damage (Bleak watchers count as grenades, and they last for quite a while and they will be present in a fight for a long time to regen your class ability and they have a huge target search range) 1.What makes this pairing great in my opinion would be in high end content where it'll be difficult to proc devourer reliably off of just ability kills, this gives you the most consistent option to manually proc devourer on command which feeds into bleak watcher spam which will feed back into your class ability 2. empowering rifts may not offer the ease of use of Healing rift, but with the spirit of starfire - simply dealing damage regens your grenade - and getting kills in your rift grants a HUGE chunk of grenade energy, and it stacks with Devourer. From testing having devourer and in a empowering rift, it takes just 2 kills to regen a bleak watcher which will feed into your class ability regen 3. now pair all of this with a high damaging weapon to secure kills quickly and you'll find yourself spamming bleakwatchers left, right, center as long there's ads to feed on 4. by the time you find yourself exhausted on all abilities, you should have your transcendence ready, pop transcendence and slay out with it to restart your loop What I can say is that, its not the most flashy or a slaying machine, but I think it has great sustainability. I know people are attracted to pure slaying capability, but often with builds that have high slaying power, they're usually reliant on the use of 1 ability to chain over of itself, messing that up will take you out of the fight for some time But often times I feel that people undervalue sustainability & reliability which this combination can provide, its the most reliable and safe option that I could take anywhere and still be useful. but it is a more slower/lax playstyle If any of you get this combination, don't trash it, I would honestly give it a try. it may not me MEta but it is competative, it just requires a bit of a brain to use in regards of positioning
So a thing that Necrotic has going for it that isn't mentioned too often is how good it is with Arcane Needle. The ticking damage triggers unravel seekers, meaning you sort of have two sources of spreading DOT. I use that combo a lot as a "fire and forget" solution. (Also, Osmiomancy does not work that well with vortex. It only gives a small amount per tick. Each grenade has its own energy return rate. Storm nades are actually really good with it, very efficient at returning energy.)
@@Icortherainwingit depends on the content. Storm grenades are perfect for add clear and you’ll always get like 70% of your Nade. Threadlings are perfect for a mixture of either add clear or signal target damage cuz they always give you at least 3 individual hits. Vortex nades are for signal targets/champs as if you can get them to stay on target, you’ll always get a full charge back
@jfkelly0 i dont think anything beats Getaway prismatic. Only time i use something else is star eater's for boss dps. Osmio verity's is not bad by any means but Getaway is too good. In low level content i love blasting storm grenades with facet of awakening
it's very good and the main one i'm grinding for but "disgustingly broken"? 😂 it's just pre-nerf contraverse hold, even the bit about infinite volatile, disgustingly broken is the amount of damage prismatic hunters can do on their melees with their class item
Necrotic + synthos is amazing in neutral game. What lightning surge doesnt kill, it poisons. Also if it kills everything in its radius, it poisons everyone whose close to the radius.
I’m actually looking forward to test out HOIL + Claw cause the fourth melee charge retains the 100 % increased recharge rate of the third melee charge, so you will have your melee charges up much more often and consistently with it. Sadly, I haven’t been able to test it out so I may be wrong
I’ve been using this roll with lightning surge and arcane needle, it’s great ability regen, and the main thing is super quick transcendence with a ton of damage whilst transcendence-basically more dmg than a super. It’s my fav build so far as it actually makes transcendence useful
I can say that if you build around it can be very good I’ve gotten really really lucky and got it on my first try, this was the roll me and my friend wanted. It is a demon for ability chaining since devour is so strong with a 4th melee charge you can use lightning surge and can gain devour fairly easy and clear rooms with one melee. These melees with devour can basically grant you a immediate grenade and you can use a momentum transfer for more charges of your melee, you should always have hoil uptime. I paired this with Monte Carlo and I have infinite melee charges with infinite grenades and I love it. With ashes to assets and hands on you will get super energy fairly quickly. If you need help on darkness bar you can swap out Monte Carlo with the strand rocket sidearm which will charge it up fast
On the point of Ophidian’s being a PvP perk, Ophi/Battle Harmony is actually cracked with the new Pale Heart origin trait for super regen. A friend of mine got this roll and he regularly averages 2.5 supers per game now lol. Also, on the point of Apotheosis Veil/Verity’s Brow, pre-stacked Verity’s with any element nade buffs the birb damage during Song of Flame. You can also continue to extend the Death Throes timer if you use a solar weapon once or twice while it’s active so you can continue to chuck empowered storm nades for a few seconds after your super ends. The add clear is through the roof.
@@alexA.7529 Easy slot into the build idea, I like it lol. I always forget, does solar holster work with rockets? It’s just breach loaders they don’t work on, right?
After playing with Osmiomancy Synthoceps, it’s amazing with a cold snap grenade. Throw the cold snap into a group to get your grenade back for free, increased melee damage on those frozen enemies, and lightning surge for a huge melee attack.
Necrotic star eaters with necrocasm and needlestorm is deffo a tier Update - after a little testing in warlords ruin it turns out necrotic star eaters with necrocasm and nova bomb is A+ maybe even S
The star eater apotheosis is great if you have(and only if you have) the raid exotic, you buff needlestorm, then spam threadlings and reach 25x damage in no time
I do stand for Spirit of the Filaments. it allows you to use something else than Feed the void. Both helion and stasis torret, helion witth lighning surge. Plus mix filaments with spirit of verity or even starfire, and you have there a really Op granade build. Annnd. lets not forget that filaments is really decent for PVP as well
Stag+Vesper is my latest roll and it works very well. I don't know what you were on about with "positioning" and whatnot, but there are a lot of encounters this season where you don't have a ton of places to run and hide when the fight gets hairy. Having a 25% damage reduction in your rift after the Well nerf is huge. Remember, Well only has TEN PERCENT REDUCTION against bosses. Pair that with Vesper and Hellion for a little tower defense that lets you melt ad swarms or ignore them entirely to agro the boss.
I hope the Titan video is just calling "Horsing Around" because 80% of that shit is going in the Horse drawing catergory Why the fuck do i need Alpha Lupi when Precious Scars is there Bungie, wtf are you thinkin
@jamesbarton4424 I personally think they should change Unbreakable to use Class energy, which people might think is broken, but both Hellion and Ascension use class energy, and those are also super strong And then that way it can interact with those too
@@TeaTimeRumble I agree since thruster is such a shorter cooldown. But it probably still wouldn’t proc the class item effects even if you were running rally barricade
@@bumponalog5001 Oh fully agree, I think osmio-healing is super niche and a bit of a meme and I don't really see much of a "build" for it. That said my team did swords for Herald of Finality in our last run and throwing a heal nade into the dog pile repeatedly was really funny.
Osmiomancy actually DOES work with healing grenade and I've heard it's quite strong in the right situation. If the AoE of the healing hits 4+ people you instantly get your grenade back which means you can just spam healing grenades during any raid DPS situation which can be huge for the whole team. Particularly strong in GM Excision where you have 12 people doing DPS at once and you can just make sure everyone is constantly healed.
Apotheosis + Stareater + Nova bomb + threadling p-dive + Edge transit + void weapon surge provides solid dmg phase on most bosses. Debuff with vortex nade, use melee for radiant with fragment. Use artefact mod for void dmg on weakened sources. Apotheosis lets you reapply weaken and spam out 3 more needles, when effect runs out you pop transcendence and get your nade back for weaken again and dump 3 more melees and then keep spamming Edge. Edge be rotated in for other void power weapons as well such as swords or rockets. Personally i run Khvostov as orb generator and edge with cascade + el. But yes as he hints to in the video. The actual apotheosis does not provide a lot in this scenario. You would probably be able to keep perma uptime on debuff anyways. The thing i like about it is ease of use. I can come very close to meta still hunt golden gun hunter and you dont have to play anywhere close to optimally for it to work.
Apotheosis is strong only as a damage phase swap, since you can swap between different star eater bonds without losing stacks, you can easily run somthing more useful + star eater most of the time, then in your damage loadout swap to apoth + star eater and use vortex grenades to keep the boss debuffed most of the damage phase, it’s especially good if you want to run a different grenade during the running phase then have vortexes for the debuff specifically for damage.
@mactics 31:21 Did 5.4m on witness in two phases using apotheosis needlestorm threadling grenades with to stack euphony spindle. I know it’s very niche and not super effective but it’s viable and fun :^). Paired it with swarmers for general gameplay having extra threadlings.
Hot take but any build with Cowl is bad, theres no invisibility synergy on warlock since they don't have stylish executioner. Basically any class item with Cowl, starfire, vesper, and swarmers are an instant throwaway
IMO Bungie either need to add well of radiance to the warlock list of supers for prismatic or get rid of every combination that involes starfire protocol and replace it with something else, becuase that is INSANE lmao. "Here's a combination for this class item you grinded for, but ooopsie we're sorry, not only did we nerf the super that synergizes with that spirit into the ground, we also made it unavailable for the only subclass that allows you to use this class item. Hope you had fun :D" LIKE WHAT
I think the answer is to improve Starfire by loosening up on what “empowered weapon damage” is. For example, maybe it should include Radiant, Unraveling, and Volatile rounds to the list of buffs that count towards the buff.
@@asethon4430 you’re right, but I already tested it with Radiant rounds and it didn’t work on the class item either, so it works the exact same way as the original exotic
@@xFluffyDevilx Well yes, it does, but that’s the problem: we don’t want to run empowering rift 😂 As for the new super, Song of Flame doesn’t need Starfire since the super’s whole thing is to regenerate your abilities crazy fast
I think it's kind of funny that 'the whole Vesper!' to him is the blinding effect on Arc they added recently to buff it from niche to great. I use it on Stasis with Frostpulse and it's very fun, but yes, on Prismatic there is no point.
apotheosis + star eater with threadling grenade lets you stack up spindle charges on the raid exotic extremely quickly. it basically lets u run a special for dps all the time given how fast you can get to max stacks where u hv a hard time without apotheosis.
The fact is, I want an Apotheosis/Mantle roll for the super recharge. Your matching weapon damage kills charge your super. You cast your super and if you have double Ashes equipped when Apotheosis procs after your super is over, you can throw your grenade repeatedly and start instantly recharging your super for 9/10 seconds so that you can cast your super again.
Got It yesterday And at least on mid tier content was so fun to use. Pop super, spam granades And melees getting ult back And if not already full, trascendance energy; pop trascendance, keep spamming shit And building ult energy. Complete the cycle getting kills to feed super with harmony. Repeat.
the thing that I love the most about spirit of the necrotic and claw and why I've been using it so much is that is has all the poison capabilities of regular necrotic (besides the increasing tick damage) but also pairs extremely well with the already busted song of flame super. It gives you 2 melee charges when your in super and it still causes damage over time. I've been using it so much for boss damage and have been really enjoying it.
18:44 you can use chain lighting or pocket Singularity..... Synthos buffs chain lightings Initial hit damage while narcotic Is poison spreads the sickness and procs jolt or Singularity hits targets and Cause a poison explosion or (if the traget survives) the poison dmg ticks will proc Volatile to Explode.
Absolutely, 100% agree with the apotheosis hot take, song of flame being overhyped, and the tier list overall. I remember looking at prismatic warlock before TFS and thinking that there was a ton of really useless “filler” stuff with a few absolutely insane options standing out. And it looks like that’s pretty much the case. That being said, it’s time to farm because I’m salivating over the idea of osmiomancy/star eater’s with 3 heavy handed mods for unlimited grenades and orbs… could see some of that top tier stuff getting nerfed tbh. Great video as always!
I hope they add to the perk pool of these in the future. A spirit of Felwinter would not only sound sick but be amazing with this episodes artifact mods. The trade off being its weakening burst isnt larger if you melee kill a bigger target. A felwinter/synthos lightning surge combo with buried bloodline + a good void heavy weapon. You’de be a complete demon (especially for this episode)
Verity’s is Overvalued in this imo. As you stated, the grenade options on Prismatic aren’t that good. You highly value Vortex, but Vortex’s primary value is CC+Weaken not its outgoing damage. Sure Vortex with 100% damage sounds nice, but could opt for Harmony and AoE everything in the grenade for Super energy instead. Also: Inmost > Osmiomancy for most Prismatic builds. Yes the grenade refund is good, but you already have devour cranking at full power most of the time. Inmost provides more uptime to your entire kit, and Prismatic warlock really experiences the uptime for stuff like Helion/Weaver’s Call/Lightning Surge over getting even *more* grenade uptime. It’s also only really better than inmost on Vortex or Coldsnaps just because the refund isn’t worth the loss of ability regen on your other abilities with the other grenades. (And the other grenades aren’t really good enough to justify an exotic slot). Filament has niche value in that it provides a different avenue for weaker devour on the class-while not amazing it’s nice to have another option over Buried Bloodline. Starfire+Necrotic might be worth looking into, I have the roll but haven’t figured out if Necrotic’s effect is treated as weapon damage. If it is, it might open the door to double aspect builds that don’t specialize in FTV. Dead on with Swarm, I called it on being bad. Generally correct on Necrotic, but I was surprised that you missed Transcendance energy and it’s interaction with “kinetic” damage sources. Necrotic damage output is “kinetic” for the sake of gauge filling on Prismatic, so when paired the usual suspects you can use the AoE to fill up Transcendance very quickly. Necrotic/Battle Harmony should be lower in the tier list, this is a nonbo as these perks work against each other. I feel like nonbo setups shouldn’t be in horse drawing as they actively work against each other. Vesper should honestly be in a tier below everything else. Literally an auto-dismantle. Claw+Inmost enables double snap, which is nice for getting ignitions and building light Transcendance quickly while still chaining empowered abilities. Osmiomancy+Claw is exclusively appealing as a pair with Coldsnap+Incin Snap for the melee damage modifier against frozen targets and the massive AoE freezing potential. (This is a niche preference I know). Star-Eaters Apotheosis has damage applications with Song of Flame that enable super to output absurd damage, and it has applications with Threadling setups using the new Raid Exotic Euphony. I suggest looking into Star-Eaters Apotheosis damage testing with Song of Flame as there are videos out experimenting with it.
The thing about the necrotic n claw is the poison mixing with arcane needles plus it works with lightning surge. Strand and poison both have a radius to spread on kill, and you receive 4, with the right buffs you constantly get melee. If they get too close for the needle, then surge. It's just a nice flow you can build up. Fun as hell Also, i have an osmio and verity roll, i tested it with tesselation and the grenade seemed to give energy but killed to quick to test damage change
Hey Mactics ! First time commenting on your video so I hope not to throw ! Main Warlock here and I had fun playing with Verity's Brow recently (my mates too for the grenade regen of course) and I made a build that make you very good at clearing adds while doing a good amount of dps to bosses and having a very good survivability. Here's the list for you, Weapons : Lost signal or blinding grenade launcher Graviton Lance Edge Transit Armor : Obviously Verity's Brow -> mods : Ashes to Assets / Harmonic Siphon Arms : Firepower / Momentum Transfer / Fastball (if you like it) Chest : Any resistance mod depending of the situation you're in Legs : Innervation x1 / Void Surge 1 or 2 (if 1 you can put Insulation too) Class Item : Bomber x2 (it can help you get your greade back if you miss or else) / Powerfull Attraction For the Aspects : Feed the Void obviously and I find Hellion to be the best second choise because this litle solar soul actually packs a punch with ignition / solar burn For the skills you have to take : Vortex Grenade / Arcane Needle or Penumbral (stasis one can get you some cool numbers on bigger ennemies) and Phoenix Dive to pop the soul and a quick heal And finally for the fragments : Awakening - Bravery - Dominance - Protection (mendatory) / Balance - Courage - Honor - Hope - Justice - Purpose (I'll let you choose for the last one) Ands that's all ! I hope i didn't misspelled too much (French subscriber here) but if you see this message let me know what you think about it ! Have fun throwing weakening nades all around and many thanks for all your content, love from Paris buddy
Star eaters + apotheosis shines in both bosses in the raid Herald, run song of flame, tractor cannon and either threadlings or storm nades w/the fragment that lets it apply jolt on hit. Since you're on tractor, you're not gonna be using a sword anyway, increasing your team's dps by 30% whilst also maintaining the ability to do damage yourself. Part of warlocks is being able to play a support playstyle, but it's understandable that a hunter main wouldn't want to do anything to benefit the team outside of dealing damage (joking joking) Witness, run Euphony with Needlestorm, Weaver's Call and threadling grenades. Weaver's Call can be better than hellion due to its rework, in which dealing strand damage of any type has a chance to generate a perched threadling. Alternatively, run the jolting storm nades with Nova Bomb, arcane needle and demolitionist weapons, you won't need to reload.
My first warlock bond is apotheosis and verity You think this would be a good pairing with threadling grenade? Verity making up for the fact we dont have the threadling damage fragment from strand?
The thing with apotheosis and star eaters is that there’s nothing else in the left Collum that can theoretically buff dps. There’s nothing else that can help in a boss fight for dps. Its main use will be for demo rockets which are incrediblely good with song of flame and arguably higher dps than nova
So I tested out necrotic and the base melee DMG ranges from 800-1000 where with normal necrotic grip is around 1600+ so it is about half the original but if using osteo striga that burn is shared with necrotic but still does same base poison DMG (1600+) Overall still does okay for most activities/general ad clear, but won't compare to some combos for boss DPS and such. Having it with star eaters or mantle is gonna be a decent build imo to boost the boss DMG just from your super (I run star eaters rn) but again to his point on having a better option for your play style just might make you want osmio instead, my next roll I'm goin for is osmiomancy with star eaters cause that's a no brainer. 17:45
Looking forward to the Titan list ! although my opinions differs on some exotics lol, I still am grateful for the insight you provide alongside the visual presentation :)
I enjoy apotheosis with synthos. Snap feels really effective and transcendence makes a lot of use of it charging super really fast in non damage encounters. After super ends grenades and melee spam nearly charges transcendence back up. Didn't expect synthos to buff snap ignition damage.
I do not know the exact calculations but wouldn't Facet of Courage and pairing a light/dark melee in tandem with the opposite grenade make up for the touch of flame/thread of evolution argument for apotheosis???
Apotheosis' strength on prismatic is that you can get a transcendence bar filled in just 10 seconds, but that hinges on using storm grenade and needle as your melee. Great for dungeons where bosses have longer damage phase, but raids? Too many bosses shmoove or have mechanics that make spamming abilities not worth it.
Did you forget Prismatic has a fragment that buffs light ability damage against dark debuffed targets when talking about Apotheosis? 'Cause I'm just saying, Following up an Arcane Needle to apply Unravel, and a Storm Grenade to apply Jolt, then going from a Nova Bomb/Needle Storm to relentless Storm Grenades and Demolitionist-reloaded Rockets gets the job done pretty darn good. And if you want to fight up close, Void Nade weaken-Arcane Needle-Lightning Surge, Nova/Needlestorm, One-Two Punch Shotty/Bastion, and Lightning Surge all day hits pretty darn hard. Go Trancendant at the start and the whole time you'll have an even stronger grenade that will add Shatters to the mix. You're combining so many debuffs and getting free bonus damage for a huge burst of DPS with both ranged and melee options. That's before even considering the artifact mods that boost grenade and melee damage of you have certain buffs applied, which you can also build around having the right buff for either grenade or melee focussed damage.
If we shouldn't delete dupes, bungle needs to give us like 200 spaces per character for just exotic armor for THAT class. We got fuck all bank space to begin with 😭 come on, bungle. Gib bank.
Thank you for voicing what I've been saying ever since people started hyping up Apotheosis on the class item. I already thought it was strong but niche on Solar and Strand. But it's just way, way overrated on Prismatic. Apotheosis/Star Eater isn't the play, I'd rather run something like Inmost Light or Osmiomancy in the first slot, instead of Apotheosis.
just got all 3 class items fom the festival....they do seem a little boring compared to the full exotic perks, and can only be used with prismatic. Am I wrong in that there was so much hype around them?
Wouldn't the claws extra charge allow you to use the aspect lighting surge with threaded needle and have 4 attacks before running out of charges still not fantastic as I really wish warlock had felwinters in column 1
Apotheosis + Transcendant though? True you lose out on the pairing on fragments, but you make up for it a bit by the recharge of popping transcendant perhaps. AV and MoBH might be nasty?
Spirit of Filaments is actually pretty great. Why wouldn’t you want to have 3 aspects and get devour + solar buddy + a bunch of threadlings just for casting a rift?
necrotic with swarmers is actually pretty great for me.... the build i run makes a TON of tangles which also make threadlings, class ability makes threadlings, and my heavy pro memoria makes threadlings with hatchling perk as well. use the thorn exotic instead of striga... works WAY better with either this exotic class item or necrotic grips itself. its an add kill BEAST, and also deals decent dps on bosses. use the arc rocket sidearm with voltshot for light damage, and the heavy for dark damage. use thorn most of the time for both. prismatic is nearly always full for me. super recharges quick too. use the strand super in prismatic.
@Matics something about the necro claw that your not thinking about is the poison spread fills dark bar incredibly fast so its a really good fast prismatic power filler and when you go trancedance it refreshes all 3 stacks of melee so if you can get in and our of trancendance faster thats how you play it
I’m going for an apotheosis + harmony combo once I can actually buy final shape. How does song of flame interact with apotheosis? I’ve been running a mock version of my prismatic idea but with well and it ain’t bad but the well nerf hurt this version of the build hard.
I'd say swap out spirit of starfire with Karnstein armless. Then swap out secant filaments out with Skull of Dire Ahamkara. Think about the synergy between mantle of battle harmony and skull of Dire Ahamkara. And add transverse steps in the first column and Fr0st-EE5 to the second column but chang the dodge regeneration to class ability. Or imagine necrotic and dunemarchers. There can be so many good combos with warlock class items. Sanguine Alchemy and precious scars!!!
I actually agree that Apotheosis is overrated. But I will also counter that I don't think Harmony is that good, at least not on Prismatic. Prismatic benefits the most from getting transcendence up as much as possible - and the best way to do that is to run a good kinetic weapon. Loving Khvostov with triple kinetic surge, kinetic siphon, and lots of orb mods. So, I actually prefer to avoid Harmony or Verity, for the most part. Running Graviton Lance and Nova Bomb is great with Harmony, until you need to fill your darkness meter lmao. I also think Inmost and Claw should be in Computer Kid or Kombucha Girl tier at least. Synthos is obviously better for a Lighning Surge build, but having an extra melee charge to build Inmost is good.
This confirms about what I originally thought when I looked at all the Warlock options. Basically is Osmiomancy or Inmost Light or don't bother. Other exotics carry way better
I love your channel as a whole and I didn't agree with all your takes on the hunter class items in particular. But God damn what a way to start. This is why we're here
Am I missing something about being Invis in PVE? It doesn't have that much of an appeal to me on Titan or Warlock as I can't think of anything that will synergise with the ability (Very open to ideas) but I'd rather just use another roll from the class item. Like hunters off the top of my head, doesn't their health regen faster while invis and also they can pair with Gyrfalcons? If Titan's had the bonk hammer I could understand it being a thing for them as you'd have a decent use of up time for invis
HOIL/star eaters is all I've been using in high-tier NFs/dungeons. Feels very good with Nova, FTV and Hellion, though I've been wanting to try arcane needle/lightning surge.
Well as a player who has the rolls I want for all clases (Caliban + Liars on Hunter, Osmio + Star on Warlock and HOIL + Syntho on Titan) can give you one advise, i got all those rolls after doing the pale heart activity in the area where is focused that day if you get one to drop from a chest inspect it after the activity ends, or at least is what I do when i got my god rolls.
I don’t look at an apotheosis roll for dps scenarios. I look at it for nightfall or lost sectors encounters where you have a chunky target that you can super then use lightning surge on everything else in the room
surely all of the comments will be very nice and civil
Nuh
Can only imagine what the titan comment section will be like
I mean, based off those Hunter ratings last time, I'm not so sure about that chief.
I kid, I kid.
Your days are numbered mac. We’re coming for you.
IM GOING TO DESTROY EVERYTHING HOW DARE YOU HAVE AN OPINION
Not the “pocket mercy” 😭
Somewhat fond memories….
@@m3moriFond memories ruined and disrespected by the recent ones
But that was accurate af 🤣
I agree with the assessment of Apotheosis, with one exception.
Regarding Star Eaters combo, you're right, it absolutely can't compete. However, you're looking at this from the perspective of complementing a pure damage role.
Where it shines is for a buff/debuff player that normally operates a support role. Tractor Cannon or Ghorn + Song of Flame.
As a perfect pairing for either, Song of Flame gets a ton of long term damage before ever taking Star Eaters into consideration, while allowing you to re-proc Tractor or Ghorn at your leisure.
Having Apotheosis basically gets to extend this state a little bit longer. Sure, it's not as strong as Solar Double Fusions, but using Threaded Needle for Unravelling and Facet of Dominance to get a starting Jolt from our Storm grenade, Prismatic is able to match Solar's damage when both use Apotheosis, thanks to the extra DoT it does during the super, and last little burst it gets at the end.
Now staple Star Eaters on top of this, and it's not an even competition anymore. Solar can't keep up with Prismatic. Sure, this would have been the result regardless because Star Eaters goes that hard, but having both is just extra damage on top for doing what you're already doing.
I've verified the numbers on it using data from separate runs using components of each half vs original Solar Song of Flame, and if you still want it, I will absolutely put my money where my mouth is and give you a video once I get my hands on one that has both on the same class item.
Do it my guy, you could get a custom apology video from Macs
do it, make a video
I have this roll and I SIGNIFICANTLY outclassed my teammates on second encounter with it. The wisp attack from SoF procs demolitionist which auto-reloads weapons. I used a demo/explosive light Apex Predator. Between SoF and apotheosis storm nades, I could fire my entire reserves without reloading once. For comparison, most of my teammates were running frenzy/bait n switch Guillotine. For the Witness, it did better than most but was still far outclassed by Celestial hunter since the melee can't really reach.
I ain’t reading all that
Osmio + Star Eater here so far. I've found that Vortex is superior, but only in high end content with beefy enemies to tick off on. If the enemies insta die from the initial throw, vortex does get the energy back. For lower content, I prefer Storm Nade, multiple hits especially on beefier enemies, I get my nade back constantly.
I'm still looking for Osmio + Verity, but combining that with Wave Frame Riskrunner Ergo, the riskrunner procs (arc conductor) count towards Verity, so it's just insane add clear and fun build for general play. I've been doing Devour + Weavers for dark dmg along with melee spamming when up for Unraveling and ofc, dark dmg for Transendence. Combine all of this with Ergo Catty + Seasonal sword perks, infinite ammo, hard hitting nades, devour constantly, and Nova bomb. Ez.
If doing nightfall or higher content, vortex becomes best with Nova. Storm falls off harder you go. I've been using Vortex with Buried Bloodline with weaken nade and Volatile rounds.
Anywho, fun stuff. More fun than melee slide build imo.
do you need storm nade for verity to proc on riskrunner sword kills?
@brandonbauckman7383 for some reason, the riskrunner sword chain lightning, counts towards verity stacks, since it's an Arc weapon. And the synergy of Verity is with a wep matching the nade, so yeah, it needs storm nade, but storm nade hits like a Mack Truck after it's stacked up, so it's not bad, and you can spam it because of Osmio in between getting arc conductor kills. This is a for fun build tho, not sure of its viability in things like GMs. For those I would run Vortex and whatever void wep u prefer. Personally, graviton, buried bloodline or collective obligation for me with volatile rounds fragment.
@@xSleiyerdid you mean collective obligation? Was reading your comments for advice but was confused on the last part. Wasn’t sure if you meant collective action perk on a gun or what.
@@CarsDogs yeah collective obligation, my bad. Misspoke. Thank you, I'll edit that and fix it.
This comment is facts i have verity + osmioncy but more damage on vortex just means it kills quicker which you don’t want for osmo😅 syntho + osmo with the lightning surge aspect is so OP
Synthos alone operates exactly the same for warlock essentially. Big difference being that arcane needle is ranged as fuck, and you dont need the enemy you want to be killed to be surrounded to take advantage of biotic. You can be in a completely seperate location and do big melee damage to an enemy anywhere else, and that feels really good lmao
Arc melee slide with the prismatic aspect that heals on melee kills makes the synos work
@@aaronyeager6778 true. I'm just a huge arcane needle fanboy and I love spamming them so my go to's are inmost/syntho and apotheosis/syntho. I just prefer apotheosis because prismatic and the right weapons let you loop the shit out of the abilities. I also just can't give up helion/weavers call and feed the void.
@@joshuamagruder2241 Plus the arcane needles are really nice to proc unravel on a boss, combine that with the fragment where light abilities deal more damage to enemies with a darkness debuff and it's a pretty big increase in super damage, I love those arcane needles aswell honestly.
Wait but...syntho requires you to be surrounded for the buff to activate so throwing needles at range isn't doing anything...
@@Malthy you missed what I said. I'm saying you can get surrounded in one area, and then throw the melee to an entirely separate area. So like a boss that isn't surrounded by enemies, titans would be shit out of luck in the time it would take to run to the boss and get off their combo. I'm saying warlocks don't adhere to that constraint. And with the way you can Regen abilities with several other pairings on the class item, you have really good melee damage with a ranged melee that has no crazy arc or really any aim requirements. Like I know titans have hammer and shield throw. But imo those suck ass compared to arcane needle
PSA you can have hoil + star eaters pre dps phase and then swap to like apoth veil and star eaters and keep the x6. Been using it to have more debuff nades during dps and its nice.
ive been switching between Necrotic star eater and HOIL star eater for max weapon dps. faster ability cooldowns are for veritys builds and trash phases. I dont see why youd switch to apoth S E, just taking away from shooting your GL
Also, apotheosis might not be the dps meta for bosses. But its excellent for encounters where you dont need to kill ranged bosses. For that 9 seconds after your super ends, you have infinite abilities to charge transcendence. Trasncendence plus something like microcosm will give you your super back incredibly fast. The amount of time you spend in your neutral game is incredibly small. Like obviously you dont want to use apotheosis for boss dps for something like the witness. You wouldnt even rock that on the subclasses it fucks really hard on. But lets take the first and third encounter of salvations edge. You need to rally to the flag in the beginning and then your super/transcendence loop begins and doesnt end.
He’s obviously never seen what it can do to Atheon or Ogres or anything up close…. It’s insane.
Grasp ogre goes testing went from 1 mil ish to 1.5ish. 50% dmg increase
Bungie missed an opportunity in not putting one or two of the new exotic pieces' perks on the class items. Matiodoxia would be insane. It's watered down version would just be "enemies affected by arcane needle emit a suspendung blast on death"
well...sadly the only class with arcane needle is warlock so daxia wouldnt work worded in the way it currently is on other subclasses since as i said above they don't have access to arcane needle. now if they worded it to make any power mellee create a suspend blast then that would work and be nuts with both other classes...imagine consecrated blast that suspends everything in its detention leaving them scorched and suspended sounds like a dope anti champion neutral ability 😅
@@zigzag2370the class items only work on prismatic ☠️
@@zigzag2370 each class has exclusive perks on the class item
@@thetronker3608 nothing he said contradicts that, consecration is on prismatic
@@dankerbell probably him mentioning other subclasses
If you use osmiomancy, both the jolt damage and jolt kills caused by the storm grenade count as grenade damage, making you get your storm grenade almost instantly, compared to the void grenade over time.
OOOH then pair with verity does it increase jolt dmg too? i have osmio and Verity combo.
edit: so im using carl to testing, and seem like verity didn't increase jolt dmg, and jolt didn't give grenade energy back like void either, only kill when devours active then i get grenade energy back and its alot because jolt kill. but when i kill everything and leave only carl alive and storm grenade give energy back only 2 times, so in ad clear storm are better but in dmg boss and bigger enemy void better.
Same for threadling grenades, each threadling counts as a direct grenade hit, giving you your grenade back
The reason I was happy about the star eater apotheosis combo was after the super u can continue dps with demolitionist rockets or other weapons because of the increased grenade regeneration speed
Appreciate the considerations on everything, and yeah Warlocks got A LOT of duds, but just wanted to say Spirit of Necrotic is still extremely good despite not getting the poison ramp up. Arcane Needle becomes a plague weapon and ofc there's the option of going in on Lightning Surge which spams beautifully in a build with Transcendent - you can jolt uppercut almost non-stop, only pausing to chuck a weakening super vortex nade. Pair with mods like Hands-On for turbo supers.
In harder content where you don't want to be that aggressive, just having poison needles is still exceptional for chewing down tough targets between poison and unravel. If you're running Feed the Void or something like Buried Bloodline to keep the Devour flowing, you don't really even need Osmiomancy or HoIL to be topped up on grenades constantly. There's also the whole synergy with weapons of sorrow to help give you even more incentive to run it - not required to enjoy the perk, but it can certainly be extra effective when you choose to.
Apotheosis + Star eaters with song of flame is really good for some bosses in which you are running tractor. It allows you to run tractor but still also do 2-3m dps per phase. While its situational on a boss to be up close like herald, its def still strong
it’s also amazing on needlestorm for a euphony build, the extra stacking damage on euphony and the bonus on needlestorm makes up for the damage lost on having weaker threadlings than strand
I've seen a suggestion to pair the ability spam with Anarchy so youre still doing youre heavy weapon damage
It also stun locks the hell out of bosses and makes a lot of dps phases in this game literally free for teammates.
I was using Song of Flame with Acrius because the snap procs trench barrel. Haven't used it in a raid but it's a nice feeling damage rotation for close ranged bosses.
I think the beauty of this is that it doesn’t matter the super u use, depending on the encounter u can use why it’s best for the encounter and boom
The main situation where I'd argue Apotheosis + Star Eaters is extremely strong is SPECIFICALLY combined with Euphony. You get a buffed needlestorm plus threadling grenade spam to instantly max out the hatchling x25 perk on Euphony for tons of extra damage which actually makes it one of the best DPS weapons in the game without using any heavy ammo. The problem is I'm not sure if the extra damage from star eaters on needlestorm is actually enough to compensate for the lower threadling damage compared to just running Strand with normal Apotheosis, since you're getting threadlings every 3 hits with Euphony as well.
I haven't tested it myself but I've heard that Claws might actually be decent for Song of Flame warlocks as supposedly the 2 melee charges increase the rate at which you can spam the melee during the super, with the melee doing significantly more damage than the grenade. The problem is you could just run synthos or star-eaters to have way more damage per melee that way instead.
He’s ignorant for not considering this
@@maxismine9896 or its cuz hes basing it off of not having certain weapons for builds like a rng weapon in an end game activity
@@st00pidn00b but why not make a comment about its incredibly good paired with this, then since again if you are farming these exotic class items you are also probably farming euphony.
@NeonUltra95
Exotic class item -
1. Needs one other person ( easily taught)
2. Guaranteed exotic and end. ( only take 20 mins max )
3. Multiple ways to farm and get your roll.
Exotic weapon -
1. Needs 5 other people to do activity ( possible having to teach and they might not understand cuz its the newest raid )
2. All based on rng to get weapon.
3. Could take multiple hours to not even get.
So basing it off a weapon, not everyone can get quick unlike say the warlord exotic that you can also farm pretty quickly, which would pair with a few rolls.
It's not ignorance it's logic that probably only 2% of the players have gotten it. So why add it? The dude only said something, probably because he saw a video with someone who has it, and while, yes, it is pretty good again not everyone is gonna have it.
@@st00pidn00b but some people have and saying oh but it would work really well if you have euphony so keep it for that would take a second…. Are you okay?
I'll be the one to vouch for Starfire + Secant filaments, which I think is a sleeper pick
Pair it with bleakwatcher + Feed the void, and add 3 copies of the mods that give class energy when your grenade deals damage (Bleak watchers count as grenades, and they last for quite a while and they will be present in a fight for a long time to regen your class ability and they have a huge target search range)
1.What makes this pairing great in my opinion would be in high end content where it'll be difficult to proc devourer reliably off of just ability kills, this gives you the most consistent option to manually proc devourer on command which feeds into bleak watcher spam which will feed back into your class ability
2. empowering rifts may not offer the ease of use of Healing rift, but with the spirit of starfire - simply dealing damage regens your grenade - and getting kills in your rift grants a HUGE chunk of grenade energy, and it stacks with Devourer. From testing having devourer and in a empowering rift, it takes just 2 kills to regen a bleak watcher which will feed into your class ability regen
3. now pair all of this with a high damaging weapon to secure kills quickly and you'll find yourself spamming bleakwatchers left, right, center as long there's ads to feed on
4. by the time you find yourself exhausted on all abilities, you should have your transcendence ready, pop transcendence and slay out with it to restart your loop
What I can say is that, its not the most flashy or a slaying machine, but I think it has great sustainability. I know people are attracted to pure slaying capability, but often with builds that have high slaying power, they're usually reliant on the use of 1 ability to chain over of itself, messing that up will take you out of the fight for some time
But often times I feel that people undervalue sustainability & reliability which this combination can provide, its the most reliable and safe option that I could take anywhere and still be useful. but it is a more slower/lax playstyle
If any of you get this combination, don't trash it, I would honestly give it a try. it may not me MEta but it is competative, it just requires a bit of a brain to use in regards of positioning
I got this exact same role and nobody has been able to give a detailed build on it so far good job!
Also what Exotics would you recommend with this build?
@@pat_x_one thanks🙏
but feed the void is enough already because the slowed targets from bleackwatcher proc it (once you kill them with your gun)
I love the way how the different tries actually have meaning behind them because you did them as memes/photos
So a thing that Necrotic has going for it that isn't mentioned too often is how good it is with Arcane Needle. The ticking damage triggers unravel seekers, meaning you sort of have two sources of spreading DOT. I use that combo a lot as a "fire and forget" solution.
(Also, Osmiomancy does not work that well with vortex. It only gives a small amount per tick. Each grenade has its own energy return rate. Storm nades are actually really good with it, very efficient at returning energy.)
Using a weapon of pain like Necrocast and Thorn, spreads the poison?
Osmiomancy/Verity's is absolutely insane. Pair that with Facet of Bravery for infinite volatile rounds as well. Disgustingly broken.
I have thos and think it's mediocre, don't know what all the hype is about. It is nowhere near as good as arc soul/ stasis turret/ solar mortar
It's heavily dependent on the grenade you want to run.
Vortex Grenade?
Sure, just find a decent void weapon.
Anything else?
Eh.
@@Icortherainwingit depends on the content. Storm grenades are perfect for add clear and you’ll always get like 70% of your Nade. Threadlings are perfect for a mixture of either add clear or signal target damage cuz they always give you at least 3 individual hits. Vortex nades are for signal targets/champs as if you can get them to stay on target, you’ll always get a full charge back
@jfkelly0 i dont think anything beats Getaway prismatic. Only time i use something else is star eater's for boss dps.
Osmio verity's is not bad by any means but Getaway is too good. In low level content i love blasting storm grenades with facet of awakening
it's very good and the main one i'm grinding for but "disgustingly broken"? 😂 it's just pre-nerf contraverse hold, even the bit about infinite volatile, disgustingly broken is the amount of damage prismatic hunters can do on their melees with their class item
Necrotic + synthos is amazing in neutral game. What lightning surge doesnt kill, it poisons. Also if it kills everything in its radius, it poisons everyone whose close to the radius.
Also glaive?
That one horse drawing LITERALLY explains my first class exotic which was spirit of Osmiomancy/Spirit of Starfire
I've farmed for 10 class items so far and have only gotten one osmio roll. it was osmio starfire 🥲🥲
I’m actually looking forward to test out HOIL + Claw cause the fourth melee charge retains the 100 % increased recharge rate of the third melee charge, so you will have your melee charges up much more often and consistently with it. Sadly, I haven’t been able to test it out so I may be wrong
I’ve been using this roll with lightning surge and arcane needle, it’s great ability regen, and the main thing is super quick transcendence with a ton of damage whilst transcendence-basically more dmg than a super. It’s my fav build so far as it actually makes transcendence useful
Also yes- you’re right. The 4th melee retains the 100% increased recharge, keeping your charges at 2+ is optimal
I can say that if you build around it can be very good I’ve gotten really really lucky and got it on my first try, this was the roll me and my friend wanted.
It is a demon for ability chaining since devour is so strong with a 4th melee charge you can use lightning surge and can gain devour fairly easy and clear rooms with one melee. These melees with devour can basically grant you a immediate grenade and you can use a momentum transfer for more charges of your melee, you should always have hoil uptime.
I paired this with Monte Carlo and I have infinite melee charges with infinite grenades and I love it. With ashes to assets and hands on you will get super energy fairly quickly.
If you need help on darkness bar you can swap out Monte Carlo with the strand rocket sidearm which will charge it up fast
@@188benjamExactly it’s a really slept on combo
I think the apotheosis argument is specifically with euphony (the raid exitic) which allows you to stack bomus damage much more quickly.
On the point of Ophidian’s being a PvP perk, Ophi/Battle Harmony is actually cracked with the new Pale Heart origin trait for super regen. A friend of mine got this roll and he regularly averages 2.5 supers per game now lol.
Also, on the point of Apotheosis Veil/Verity’s Brow, pre-stacked Verity’s with any element nade buffs the birb damage during Song of Flame. You can also continue to extend the Death Throes timer if you use a solar weapon once or twice while it’s active so you can continue to chuck empowered storm nades for a few seconds after your super ends. The add clear is through the roof.
Use Dragon's Breath if the boss has any ads around it, as long as you start with it the ignitions add Verity's stacks
@@alexA.7529 Easy slot into the build idea, I like it lol. I always forget, does solar holster work with rockets? It’s just breach loaders they don’t work on, right?
After playing with Osmiomancy Synthoceps, it’s amazing with a cold snap grenade. Throw the cold snap into a group to get your grenade back for free, increased melee damage on those frozen enemies, and lightning surge for a huge melee attack.
Necrotic star eaters with necrocasm and needlestorm is deffo a tier
Update - after a little testing in warlords ruin it turns out necrotic star eaters with necrocasm and nova bomb is A+ maybe even S
The star eater apotheosis is great if you have(and only if you have) the raid exotic, you buff needlestorm, then spam threadlings and reach 25x damage in no time
I do stand for Spirit of the Filaments. it allows you to use something else than Feed the void. Both helion and stasis torret, helion witth lighning surge. Plus mix filaments with spirit of verity or even starfire, and you have there a really Op granade build. Annnd. lets not forget that filaments is really decent for PVP as well
Stag+Vesper is my latest roll and it works very well. I don't know what you were on about with "positioning" and whatnot, but there are a lot of encounters this season where you don't have a ton of places to run and hide when the fight gets hairy. Having a 25% damage reduction in your rift after the Well nerf is huge. Remember, Well only has TEN PERCENT REDUCTION against bosses. Pair that with Vesper and Hellion for a little tower defense that lets you melt ad swarms or ignore them entirely to agro the boss.
I hope the Titan video is just calling "Horsing Around" because 80% of that shit is going in the Horse drawing catergory
Why the fuck do i need Alpha Lupi when Precious Scars is there Bungie, wtf are you thinkin
Literally this.
The titan video is gonna be so tragic 😭
The worst part is thrusters don’t proc hoarfrost, horn, or alpha lupi 😢
@jamesbarton4424 I personally think they should change Unbreakable to use Class energy, which people might think is broken, but both Hellion and Ascension use class energy, and those are also super strong
And then that way it can interact with those too
@@TeaTimeRumble I agree since thruster is such a shorter cooldown. But it probably still wouldn’t proc the class item effects even if you were running rally barricade
Healing grenade does work with osmiomancy, it's really funny in raids, I think it's 20% per guardian hit but have not personally tested.
Only issue with that is Medic Warlock benefits so much from the solar specific fragments.
@@bumponalog5001 Oh fully agree, I think osmio-healing is super niche and a bit of a meme and I don't really see much of a "build" for it. That said my team did swords for Herald of Finality in our last run and throwing a heal nade into the dog pile repeatedly was really funny.
Osmiomancy actually DOES work with healing grenade and I've heard it's quite strong in the right situation. If the AoE of the healing hits 4+ people you instantly get your grenade back which means you can just spam healing grenades during any raid DPS situation which can be huge for the whole team. Particularly strong in GM Excision where you have 12 people doing DPS at once and you can just make sure everyone is constantly healed.
Apotheosis + Stareater + Nova bomb + threadling p-dive + Edge transit + void weapon surge provides solid dmg phase on most bosses.
Debuff with vortex nade, use melee for radiant with fragment. Use artefact mod for void dmg on weakened sources.
Apotheosis lets you reapply weaken and spam out 3 more needles, when effect runs out you pop transcendence and get your nade back for weaken again and dump 3 more melees and then keep spamming Edge.
Edge be rotated in for other void power weapons as well such as swords or rockets.
Personally i run Khvostov as orb generator and edge with cascade + el.
But yes as he hints to in the video. The actual apotheosis does not provide a lot in this scenario. You would probably be able to keep perma uptime on debuff anyways.
The thing i like about it is ease of use. I can come very close to meta still hunt golden gun hunter and you dont have to play anywhere close to optimally for it to work.
I very much enjoy Osmiomancy/Synthos as a strong hybrid build that helps me keep things mixed up and not overly depend on one ability.
Apotheosis is strong only as a damage phase swap, since you can swap between different star eater bonds without losing stacks, you can easily run somthing more useful + star eater most of the time, then in your damage loadout swap to apoth + star eater and use vortex grenades to keep the boss debuffed most of the damage phase, it’s especially good if you want to run a different grenade during the running phase then have vortexes for the debuff specifically for damage.
@mactics 31:21 Did 5.4m on witness in two phases using apotheosis needlestorm threadling grenades with to stack euphony spindle. I know it’s very niche and not super effective but it’s viable and fun :^). Paired it with swarmers for general gameplay having extra threadlings.
I was literally about to comment the same thing it’s worth it with with euphony to get the spindle stacks up
I have apoth and star eaters but I just switch back to getaway artist on prismatic its so strong 😂
Hot take but any build with Cowl is bad, theres no invisibility synergy on warlock since they don't have stylish executioner. Basically any class item with Cowl, starfire, vesper, and swarmers are an instant throwaway
good take, if you’re building into the synthos lightning surge build why would you even want to play defensively with invis, just run hoil
IMO Bungie either need to add well of radiance to the warlock list of supers for prismatic or get rid of every combination that involes starfire protocol and replace it with something else, becuase that is INSANE lmao. "Here's a combination for this class item you grinded for, but ooopsie we're sorry, not only did we nerf the super that synergizes with that spirit into the ground, we also made it unavailable for the only subclass that allows you to use this class item. Hope you had fun :D" LIKE WHAT
I think the answer is to improve Starfire by loosening up on what “empowered weapon damage” is. For example, maybe it should include Radiant, Unraveling, and Volatile rounds to the list of buffs that count towards the buff.
@@yadeel8281tbh, there's nothing in game description about needing well or rift for Starfire part of class item.
@@asethon4430 you’re right, but I already tested it with Radiant rounds and it didn’t work on the class item either, so it works the exact same way as the original exotic
Can't you just run it with empowering rift ? And does it maybe work with the new super ? I haven't tried it out yet ...
@@xFluffyDevilx Well yes, it does, but that’s the problem: we don’t want to run empowering rift 😂
As for the new super, Song of Flame doesn’t need Starfire since the super’s whole thing is to regenerate your abilities crazy fast
I think it's kind of funny that 'the whole Vesper!' to him is the blinding effect on Arc they added recently to buff it from niche to great. I use it on Stasis with Frostpulse and it's very fun, but yes, on Prismatic there is no point.
The blinding and the faster regen really is what makes Vesper appealing.
apotheosis + star eater with threadling grenade lets you stack up spindle charges on the raid exotic extremely quickly. it basically lets u run a special for dps all the time given how fast you can get to max stacks where u hv a hard time without apotheosis.
The fact is, I want an Apotheosis/Mantle roll for the super recharge. Your matching weapon damage kills charge your super. You cast your super and if you have double Ashes equipped when Apotheosis procs after your super is over, you can throw your grenade repeatedly and start instantly recharging your super for 9/10 seconds so that you can cast your super again.
🎉 I have it
Got It yesterday And at least on mid tier content was so fun to use.
Pop super, spam granades And melees getting ult back And if not already full, trascendance energy; pop trascendance, keep spamming shit And building ult energy.
Complete the cycle getting kills to feed super with harmony.
Repeat.
the thing that I love the most about spirit of the necrotic and claw and why I've been using it so much is that is has all the poison capabilities of regular necrotic (besides the increasing tick damage) but also pairs extremely well with the already busted song of flame super. It gives you 2 melee charges when your in super and it still causes damage over time. I've been using it so much for boss damage and have been really enjoying it.
18:44 you can use chain lighting or pocket Singularity..... Synthos buffs chain lightings Initial hit damage while narcotic Is poison spreads the sickness and procs jolt or Singularity hits targets and Cause a poison explosion or (if the traget survives) the poison dmg ticks will proc Volatile to Explode.
Absolutely, 100% agree with the apotheosis hot take, song of flame being overhyped, and the tier list overall.
I remember looking at prismatic warlock before TFS and thinking that there was a ton of really useless “filler” stuff with a few absolutely insane options standing out. And it looks like that’s pretty much the case. That being said, it’s time to farm because I’m salivating over the idea of osmiomancy/star eater’s with 3 heavy handed mods for unlimited grenades and orbs… could see some of that top tier stuff getting nerfed tbh.
Great video as always!
I hope they add to the perk pool of these in the future. A spirit of Felwinter would not only sound sick but be amazing with this episodes artifact mods. The trade off being its weakening burst isnt larger if you melee kill a bigger target. A felwinter/synthos lightning surge combo with buried bloodline + a good void heavy weapon. You’de be a complete demon (especially for this episode)
Verity’s is Overvalued in this imo.
As you stated, the grenade options on Prismatic aren’t that good. You highly value Vortex, but Vortex’s primary value is CC+Weaken not its outgoing damage.
Sure Vortex with 100% damage sounds nice, but could opt for Harmony and AoE everything in the grenade for Super energy instead.
Also:
Inmost > Osmiomancy for most Prismatic builds. Yes the grenade refund is good, but you already have devour cranking at full power most of the time. Inmost provides more uptime to your entire kit, and Prismatic warlock really experiences the uptime for stuff like Helion/Weaver’s Call/Lightning Surge over getting even *more* grenade uptime.
It’s also only really better than inmost on Vortex or Coldsnaps just because the refund isn’t worth the loss of ability regen on your other abilities with the other grenades. (And the other grenades aren’t really good enough to justify an exotic slot).
Filament has niche value in that it provides a different avenue for weaker devour on the class-while not amazing it’s nice to have another option over Buried Bloodline.
Starfire+Necrotic might be worth looking into, I have the roll but haven’t figured out if Necrotic’s effect is treated as weapon damage. If it is, it might open the door to double aspect builds that don’t specialize in FTV.
Dead on with Swarm, I called it on being bad.
Generally correct on Necrotic, but I was surprised that you missed Transcendance energy and it’s interaction with “kinetic” damage sources. Necrotic damage output is “kinetic” for the sake of gauge filling on Prismatic, so when paired the usual suspects you can use the AoE to fill up Transcendance very quickly.
Necrotic/Battle Harmony should be lower in the tier list, this is a nonbo as these perks work against each other. I feel like nonbo setups shouldn’t be in horse drawing as they actively work against each other.
Vesper should honestly be in a tier below everything else. Literally an auto-dismantle.
Claw+Inmost enables double snap, which is nice for getting ignitions and building light Transcendance quickly while still chaining empowered abilities.
Osmiomancy+Claw is exclusively appealing as a pair with Coldsnap+Incin Snap for the melee damage modifier against frozen targets and the massive AoE freezing potential. (This is a niche preference I know).
Star-Eaters Apotheosis has damage applications with Song of Flame that enable super to output absurd damage, and it has applications with Threadling setups using the new Raid Exotic Euphony. I suggest looking into Star-Eaters Apotheosis damage testing with Song of Flame as there are videos out experimenting with it.
Song of flame doesn't really let you use your weapons for DPS too which kinda sucks
Goated opinion
@@avalokiteshvara113you don’t have to spam abilities it lasts longer if you just shoot
@@tvrnished what
This might be the only well-formatted rebuttal comment that I've seen on a Destiny video.
The thing about the necrotic n claw is the poison mixing with arcane needles plus it works with lightning surge. Strand and poison both have a radius to spread on kill, and you receive 4, with the right buffs you constantly get melee. If they get too close for the needle, then surge. It's just a nice flow you can build up. Fun as hell
Also, i have an osmio and verity roll, i tested it with tesselation and the grenade seemed to give energy but killed to quick to test damage change
Having a spreadsheet like this for all the sword perk/element/frame combos would be clutch
Hey Mactics ! First time commenting on your video so I hope not to throw !
Main Warlock here and I had fun playing with Verity's Brow recently (my mates too for the grenade regen of course) and I made a build that make you very good at clearing adds while doing a good amount of dps to bosses and having a very good survivability.
Here's the list for you,
Weapons : Lost signal or blinding grenade launcher
Graviton Lance
Edge Transit
Armor : Obviously Verity's Brow -> mods : Ashes to Assets / Harmonic Siphon
Arms : Firepower / Momentum Transfer / Fastball (if you like it)
Chest : Any resistance mod depending of the situation you're in
Legs : Innervation x1 / Void Surge 1 or 2 (if 1 you can put Insulation too)
Class Item : Bomber x2 (it can help you get your greade back if you miss or else) / Powerfull Attraction
For the Aspects : Feed the Void obviously and I find Hellion to be the best second choise because this litle solar soul actually packs a punch with ignition / solar burn
For the skills you have to take : Vortex Grenade / Arcane Needle or Penumbral (stasis one can get you some cool numbers on bigger ennemies) and Phoenix Dive to pop the soul and a quick heal
And finally for the fragments : Awakening - Bravery - Dominance - Protection (mendatory) / Balance - Courage - Honor - Hope - Justice - Purpose (I'll let you choose for the last one)
Ands that's all ! I hope i didn't misspelled too much (French subscriber here) but if you see this message let me know what you think about it ! Have fun throwing weakening nades all around and many thanks for all your content, love from Paris buddy
Star eaters + apotheosis shines in both bosses in the raid
Herald, run song of flame, tractor cannon and either threadlings or storm nades w/the fragment that lets it apply jolt on hit. Since you're on tractor, you're not gonna be using a sword anyway, increasing your team's dps by 30% whilst also maintaining the ability to do damage yourself. Part of warlocks is being able to play a support playstyle, but it's understandable that a hunter main wouldn't want to do anything to benefit the team outside of dealing damage (joking joking)
Witness, run Euphony with Needlestorm, Weaver's Call and threadling grenades. Weaver's Call can be better than hellion due to its rework, in which dealing strand damage of any type has a chance to generate a perched threadling. Alternatively, run the jolting storm nades with Nova Bomb, arcane needle and demolitionist weapons, you won't need to reload.
I’m so glad I watched this, thanks Mactics! I got the osmiomancy +harmony roll on my second try and I had no clue it was actually good
My first warlock bond is apotheosis and verity
You think this would be a good pairing with threadling grenade? Verity making up for the fact we dont have the threadling damage fragment from strand?
The thing with apotheosis and star eaters is that there’s nothing else in the left Collum that can theoretically buff dps. There’s nothing else that can help in a boss fight for dps. Its main use will be for demo rockets which are incrediblely good with song of flame and arguably higher dps than nova
I haven't played the dual mission yet that helps getting an idea of what to work with and when the original exotics are still better
My problem with Solipsism is that there are very, *very* few rolls that I'd take over Getaway Artist, and Star-Eater is a must for that.
how is prismatic grenade, damage wise. Cuz you can chuck more of those with apotheosis instead of all the regular grenades.
Apotheosis is great when you're weapon swaping with like witherhoard and BnS heavies, and anything with demo
Yass, rank them Mactics daddy
So I tested out necrotic and the base melee DMG ranges from 800-1000 where with normal necrotic grip is around 1600+ so it is about half the original but if using osteo striga that burn is shared with necrotic but still does same base poison DMG (1600+) Overall still does okay for most activities/general ad clear, but won't compare to some combos for boss DPS and such.
Having it with star eaters or mantle is gonna be a decent build imo to boost the boss DMG just from your super (I run star eaters rn) but again to his point on having a better option for your play style just might make you want osmio instead, my next roll I'm goin for is osmiomancy with star eaters cause that's a no brainer.
17:45
Looking forward to the Titan list ! although my opinions differs on some exotics lol, I still am grateful for the insight you provide alongside the visual presentation :)
I got Osminomancy+ Star Eater! Definitely happy and now I’ll loot chests lol
I enjoy apotheosis with synthos. Snap feels really effective and transcendence makes a lot of use of it charging super really fast in non damage encounters. After super ends grenades and melee spam nearly charges transcendence back up. Didn't expect synthos to buff snap ignition damage.
I do not know the exact calculations but wouldn't Facet of Courage and pairing a light/dark melee in tandem with the opposite grenade make up for the touch of flame/thread of evolution argument for apotheosis???
Hey, my first drop was Osmiomancy+Verity Brow. Any interesting builds for it?
Your apotheosis take is fair but as a counter point if you pair it euphony the dps definitely melts I use it in salvations edge trust
Apotheosis' strength on prismatic is that you can get a transcendence bar filled in just 10 seconds, but that hinges on using storm grenade and needle as your melee. Great for dungeons where bosses have longer damage phase, but raids? Too many bosses shmoove or have mechanics that make spamming abilities not worth it.
Did you forget Prismatic has a fragment that buffs light ability damage against dark debuffed targets when talking about Apotheosis? 'Cause I'm just saying, Following up an Arcane Needle to apply Unravel, and a Storm Grenade to apply Jolt, then going from a Nova Bomb/Needle Storm to relentless Storm Grenades and Demolitionist-reloaded Rockets gets the job done pretty darn good.
And if you want to fight up close, Void Nade weaken-Arcane Needle-Lightning Surge, Nova/Needlestorm, One-Two Punch Shotty/Bastion, and Lightning Surge all day hits pretty darn hard. Go Trancendant at the start and the whole time you'll have an even stronger grenade that will add Shatters to the mix.
You're combining so many debuffs and getting free bonus damage for a huge burst of DPS with both ranged and melee options.
That's before even considering the artifact mods that boost grenade and melee damage of you have certain buffs applied, which you can also build around having the right buff for either grenade or melee focussed damage.
What is you build with osmio and verity. I'd really like to understand that synergy. I'm not starting to play with my warlock.
The fact he said “pocket mercy” from Overwatch 2 is crazy 🤣
Is there a tier list like the spreadsheet that has the combos listed out anywhere? S, A, B, C, F?
Thinking about it, I can probably just color code the combo cell myself :)
If we shouldn't delete dupes, bungle needs to give us like 200 spaces per character for just exotic armor for THAT class. We got fuck all bank space to begin with 😭 come on, bungle. Gib bank.
First try and got spirit of inmost light and spirit of the claw. What’s everyone’s thoughts? Not used yet.
Is it vortex nade still the best after they added 0.8s cooldown for triggering osmio?
Thank you for voicing what I've been saying ever since people started hyping up Apotheosis on the class item. I already thought it was strong but niche on Solar and Strand. But it's just way, way overrated on Prismatic. Apotheosis/Star Eater isn't the play, I'd rather run something like Inmost Light or Osmiomancy in the first slot, instead of Apotheosis.
just got all 3 class items fom the festival....they do seem a little boring compared to the full exotic perks, and can only be used with prismatic. Am I wrong in that there was so much hype around them?
Wouldn't the claws extra charge allow you to use the aspect lighting surge with threaded needle and have 4 attacks before running out of charges still not fantastic as I really wish warlock had felwinters in column 1
As a warlock main I agree. I have been having a hard time running prismatic when we’ll fleshed out single subclass build is more powerful.
Apotheosis + Transcendant though? True you lose out on the pairing on fragments, but you make up for it a bit by the recharge of popping transcendant perhaps. AV and MoBH might be nasty?
apotheosis stareater threadling grenade and euphony could work, I would love to give you the damage numbers but I don't have euphony yet
Claw is actually great. With Transcendence or Song of Flame it recharges your melee while using your melee leading to more melee.
Spirit of Filaments is actually pretty great. Why wouldn’t you want to have 3 aspects and get devour + solar buddy + a bunch of threadlings just for casting a rift?
necrotic with swarmers is actually pretty great for me.... the build i run makes a TON of tangles which also make threadlings, class ability makes threadlings, and my heavy pro memoria makes threadlings with hatchling perk as well. use the thorn exotic instead of striga... works WAY better with either this exotic class item or necrotic grips itself. its an add kill BEAST, and also deals decent dps on bosses. use the arc rocket sidearm with voltshot for light damage, and the heavy for dark damage. use thorn most of the time for both. prismatic is nearly always full for me. super recharges quick too. use the strand super in prismatic.
Chain lightning ia actually goated with prismatic, transcendence lets you spam it like crazy and the chaons will clear ads like mad
When you see all these combos and realize you have an investment light/stareater, it makes you smile 😃
@Matics something about the necro claw that your not thinking about is the poison spread fills dark bar incredibly fast so its a really good fast prismatic power filler and when you go trancedance it refreshes all 3 stacks of melee so if you can get in and our of trancendance faster thats how you play it
The new raid Fusion works super well with Apop and Threadlings. You start off with like 50%+ of the threadling charges
I’m going for an apotheosis + harmony combo once I can actually buy final shape.
How does song of flame interact with apotheosis? I’ve been running a mock version of my prismatic idea but with well and it ain’t bad but the well nerf hurt this version of the build hard.
when song of flame over the apotheosis will activated the grenade and melee energy, not in super duration.
why has yt no 4xspeed?
I'd say swap out spirit of starfire with Karnstein armless. Then swap out secant filaments out with Skull of Dire Ahamkara. Think about the synergy between mantle of battle harmony and skull of Dire Ahamkara. And add transverse steps in the first column and Fr0st-EE5 to the second column but chang the dodge regeneration to class ability. Or imagine necrotic and dunemarchers. There can be so many good combos with warlock class items. Sanguine Alchemy and precious scars!!!
this is what using 100% of the brain looks like, you’re a visionary
Man Warlock has some SPICY ones. They really feel the best in Prismatic and it isn't even close.
What would you all use between these two: Osmio/Star Eater or Apoth/Verritys?
Just realized I have inmost light/Synthoceps what do yall recommend as far as fragments go?
I actually agree that Apotheosis is overrated. But I will also counter that I don't think Harmony is that good, at least not on Prismatic. Prismatic benefits the most from getting transcendence up as much as possible - and the best way to do that is to run a good kinetic weapon. Loving Khvostov with triple kinetic surge, kinetic siphon, and lots of orb mods. So, I actually prefer to avoid Harmony or Verity, for the most part. Running Graviton Lance and Nova Bomb is great with Harmony, until you need to fill your darkness meter lmao.
I also think Inmost and Claw should be in Computer Kid or Kombucha Girl tier at least. Synthos is obviously better for a Lighning Surge build, but having an extra melee charge to build Inmost is good.
Inmost and star eater is where it’s at. Quick big boss dps, and quick ability regen. It has to be one of the best all around combos.
This confirms about what I originally thought when I looked at all the Warlock options. Basically is Osmiomancy or Inmost Light or don't bother. Other exotics carry way better
I love your channel as a whole and I didn't agree with all your takes on the hunter class items in particular. But God damn what a way to start. This is why we're here
Am I missing something about being Invis in PVE? It doesn't have that much of an appeal to me on Titan or Warlock as I can't think of anything that will synergise with the ability (Very open to ideas) but I'd rather just use another roll from the class item. Like hunters off the top of my head, doesn't their health regen faster while invis and also they can pair with Gyrfalcons?
If Titan's had the bonk hammer I could understand it being a thing for them as you'd have a decent use of up time for invis
I heard that if you use the arc subclass super you get the blind on rift? Not sure tho
apotheosis/star eaters or HOIL/star eaters? Which one is better for raid or end game activities?
HOIL/star eaters is all I've been using in high-tier NFs/dungeons. Feels very good with Nova, FTV and Hellion, though I've been wanting to try arcane needle/lightning surge.
Well as a player who has the rolls I want for all clases (Caliban + Liars on Hunter, Osmio + Star on Warlock and HOIL + Syntho on Titan) can give you one advise, i got all those rolls after doing the pale heart activity in the area where is focused that day if you get one to drop from a chest inspect it after the activity ends, or at least is what I do when i got my god rolls.
I don’t look at an apotheosis roll for dps scenarios. I look at it for nightfall or lost sectors encounters where you have a chunky target that you can super then use lightning surge on everything else in the room