Honestly man without the internet I would have never beaten some games. Sonic generations Time eater battle, Celeste's chapter 7 b side, Omori's DAMN HUMPHRY PUZZLES, and to that I think it's helped more then it killed my enjoyment of the title. Great vid
It sure did create a lot of hype around video games. When I was growing up you didn't want anyone finding out you played games except for trusted friends that also played, or else you would be ostracized. The meta back then was to be a jock, now even jocks play. It's like I slipped into an alternate dimension when I got out of the Corps.
Great points. Another thing I think you could add is the fact that this has also lead to new genres being a lot more easy to access, or even have the possibility to be created, i.e. grand strategy games without resources or guides would be nightmarish to learn, and a lot less accessible (Think Victoria 2)
Thanks for this video, honestly just searched this phrase up because I never really look at guides but I have a couple friends that do this and sometimes it kills the mood. Guides definitely have their place because those new to games may need all the help they can get and most people who have been playing games for a long time take that for granted. People with many years of games under their belts have prior knowledge of other games to help with the new ones they play taking Don't Starve as an example even the simple understanding of a hunger system helps heaps. That being said Guides also completely kill any sense of wonder or exploration, I mean Elden Ring came out and I was one of the first people to get to areas that even the Wiki had not had any info on (thanks to the week off of work I had), this lead to me enjoying the exploration more and trying things out for my own, I had no meta build no person to tell me where to go or what side quest to do and while this was frustrating at times it was a blast. another whole topic that could be discussed would be to talk about META in games and how that affects them because I genuinely despise any sort of META in games I feel like it sucks the creativity out of any game and then there are people just saying playing any other way is wrong but that would be a topic for another video.
thanks for taking the time! yeah the very nature of meta games have changed, in some ways due to the internet. i have a planned sequel to this down the line discussing some of that and patching as a whole, but we'll see when i get to it.
There's a famous saying that if you give players a chance, they'll optimize the fun out of a game. This is very common in the Monster Hunter fanbase where instead of experimenting with different weapons and armour and finding what suits you, many players just go online to find the most optimum combination. What's funny is they're literally by passing a key aspect of what the game is supposed to be about. Players will never get to try weapons they might actually enjoy because they make a beeline for the most optimized load out. I wish more games randomized certain aspects so that no two players have the exact same path through it. Edit - Just saw you mention MH
haha yeah same thing happened with me. didnt want to waste time with stuff that wasn't good so looked up builds, how to farm zennys, all that other stuff
With some games, I have to fight the urge to do too much research. For example, I got Divinity Original Sin 2, and hadn't played a CRPG in years. I read the wikis, the build guides, looked at maps...So much stuff that I was actually a bit paralyzed and obsessed. It basically ruined the game for me. I had to quit, and wait a few months and just try a playthrough with no info and then I really enjoyed it, errors, dumb builds, and "bad" choices and all. Another guide trap game is Path of Exile. But really, any RPG, ARPG, strategy, or survival/crafting game with build guides and shit can get to be too much information and you're just following someone else's playthrough and not really experiencing it for yourself.
totally feel that man. like you said, I need to make a conscious effort to just go into games blind because that truly does make some game experiences that much better. RPGs in particular, since there is usually just SO much stuff (loot, spells, quests, whatever) that it can be easy to just start looking up the best builds rather than just going through the game and having fun i still need to play DOS2 though. have heard great things but I am a bit afraid to just jump into it as I feel like i might be overwhelmed
I think another factor is the other players calling you a noob if you have a less optimized build, less optimized party, if you can't beat a particular boss. Basically if you don't play the way they do, they will call you a noob. This puts pressure on you to abandon your vision and play the way they do. I don't know why the cRPG community is like this. The Table Top is so nice and welcoming.
I still think the point made at the end is the key point, we are the ones who deiced if we play the games or not. While I'm not against using guides, I tend to only use them if I'm stuck at a specific thing and want the game 'done' (Though this is also normally only the case when going for 100% say lol) but as you said, having the option to use them is what makes it great.
definitely! while I lamented that maybe we lost something (which I still do think we maybe have a bit), but in the end, we don't have to use all the info and still go into games blind if we want the full experience
@@JamesLikesGames One thing I think we have missed is the scene of mystery and 'I header you can do X' or 'Y is in the game as a secret'. Mainly due to data mining and such, which is one of the biggest shames.
yeah that's definitely true. on the other hand though - we may never have learned those secrets to begin with if not for the internet allowing ppl to discuss their fav games and stuff
Recently I feel like Elden Ring was ruined by guides for me. Elden Ring content at launch was ubiquitous. Struggling through the game and seeing guides pop up everywhere, streamers getting through the game at a lightning fast pace because viewer aid. If Elden Ring had been made in the 90's or early 2000's its secrets would have been actual secrets. Now everything is known and out in the open. Especially when a lot of the guide makers are given early access. What's the point of struggling through it when its all been done before. I don't know, it doesn't feel special anymore just doing it with no help, because there aren't any conversations where I can say something about a game and have it not be common knowledge. I remember the secret candy cheat in Pokémon red and blue was passed along person to person. I visited with a family friend and her son told me about it. It sounded like somebody was messing with you when you heard it, but if you took the time to actually try it out you couldn't believe it was real. When that messed up pokemon appeared I was so excited that it actually worked! But just like guides, it actually ruined the experience. Our brains want challenge as much as it wants easy calories and dopamine dumps. For whatever reason it feels better to struggle through something then be handed it. Or playing Resident Evil as a kid, not knowing where the hell to go or what to do. That game takes 2 hours if you know where everything is, but as kids we played RE1 and RE2 for months. They killed it.
yeah definitely. it's nice to have guides if you need them, but it can definitely feel like you need to make a concerted effort to not look at videos about a game you're playing so you can avoid the surprises and whatnot
That just means you are online too much. Games only felt like secrets because you were probably talking to ACTUAL PEOPLE. You literally referenced a time period more than 2 decades ago. You never noticed this in-between that time and now? Did you even watch the video? He literally demonstrates how guides were always around. The difference is you weren't addicted to the internet.
discovered a fantastic youtuber, what a day. mate good luck and keep making videos, I'll keep watching, and am excited when you become big, good incentive to keep entertaining us haha
Real shame about your experience with DST. It's my favorite game, and discovering everything myself was the best part of the experience. I wish I could wipe my memory and go through it again.
I agree. I haven't played elden ring yet. I skip by videos of it so I don't spoil the experience when I play it finally. I've done the same thing with nier automata and I was hyped being able to use A2 being that I didn't know I would be able to
Great Video. Another Aspect are the sheer number of games released today. Therefore I am way less inclined to stay longer with a game then before, especially if get to a passage that is not very well explained or has confusing mechanics. Also gaining game knowledge can be it's own fun.
yeah that's very true too. just my steam library has hundreds of unplayed games but the ones I really get into I also find myself looking up things, checking out the subreddits, and whatnot. when i was playing starcraft, I probably spent as much time reading and watching as I did playing
IMO, it tends to depend on the game. For Graphic Adventure Games (like Valiant Hearts), guides can be pretty important. If you've ever heard of the series "Ross's Game Dungeon", you learn pretty quickly why guides can be important for those types of games (Oh Jesus... The Armed and Delirious episode...) For Narrative Driven Games that are more oriented toward action; I think they're a detriment. The recent remake of the OG Half Life, Black Mesa, is a good example (*really* good remake btw); and the fan mod Entropy Zero: 2. I only used a guide *once* for both of those games; for Black Mesa, I had gotten stuck on a puzzle that I thought I had solved, only to find out my game had bugged out and needed to redo it. For Entropy Zero: 2, I had been stuck for about 20 minutes and had gotten fed up with the damned escape and evasion (and in the guide I looked up, it was more of an exploit than anything else that was difficult to pull off). As I said, it all depends.
of course. and ultimately it doesn't rly matter - as long as u enjoy the game. but like you said, narrative driven games (usually easier to figure out) do lose a bit when you need to stop yourself and find the solution
I think bad UI is also to blame for this. A lot of in-game tool-tips, manuals, and encyclopedia are so useless. Devs don't put any effort in it because they think they can rely on 3rd-party wikis made by players. The problem comes in when the game is not that popular, the wikis are bare bones, there's barely any written or video guides. This in turn reduces the number of new players who might want to try the game.
I'm not sure if you play it, but this feels a lot like path of exile Only a few metabuilds that people follow every 3 month reset. Very good video though man. I landed here from watching your rimworld in 2022 video. Your sub count belies your video quality sir.
i only played a bit of poe with friends, never got too far. but i'm not surprised. i remember when D3 first came out bunch of my friends were similarly looking up build guides and stuff. also - thank you for checking it out! truly appreciate it and the compliment :D
You're wrong. Internet guides ruin the exploration in video games. Especially in online games you feel like you have to watch it because everyone is informed and you are not. This is detrimental.
Games like Dark Souls 3 and Sekiro are great plays because even with a guide they are both very hard. Highly recommend Sekiro since you’re not a big fan of grinding!
Don't learn the meta, make the meta
i gotta embrace the meta! i gotta sniff the meta! i gotta lick the meta, i gotta wash the meta, i gotta date the meta. i gotta BE THE META
i 100% agree, Skyrim with no guides just hits different...
i... actually haven't played skyrim yet
Honestly man without the internet I would have never beaten some games. Sonic generations Time eater battle, Celeste's chapter 7 b side, Omori's DAMN HUMPHRY PUZZLES, and to that I think it's helped more then it killed my enjoyment of the title. Great vid
lol! yeah i think i had to use a guide for some of the Omori puzzles too
It sure did create a lot of hype around video games. When I was growing up you didn't want anyone finding out you played games except for trusted friends that also played, or else you would be ostracized. The meta back then was to be a jock, now even jocks play. It's like I slipped into an alternate dimension when I got out of the Corps.
Great points. Another thing I think you could add is the fact that this has also lead to new genres being a lot more easy to access, or even have the possibility to be created, i.e. grand strategy games without resources or guides would be nightmarish to learn, and a lot less accessible (Think Victoria 2)
totally! there's probably so many games out there which never would have gotten exposure if not for the internet
Thanks for this video, honestly just searched this phrase up because I never really look at guides but I have a couple friends that do this and sometimes it kills the mood.
Guides definitely have their place because those new to games may need all the help they can get and most people who have been playing games for a long time take that for granted. People with many years of games under their belts have prior knowledge of other games to help with the new ones they play taking Don't Starve as an example even the simple understanding of a hunger system helps heaps.
That being said Guides also completely kill any sense of wonder or exploration, I mean Elden Ring came out and I was one of the first people to get to areas that even the Wiki had not had any info on (thanks to the week off of work I had), this lead to me enjoying the exploration more and trying things out for my own, I had no meta build no person to tell me where to go or what side quest to do and while this was frustrating at times it was a blast.
another whole topic that could be discussed would be to talk about META in games and how that affects them because I genuinely despise any sort of META in games I feel like it sucks the creativity out of any game and then there are people just saying playing any other way is wrong but that would be a topic for another video.
thanks for taking the time!
yeah the very nature of meta games have changed, in some ways due to the internet. i have a planned sequel to this down the line discussing some of that and patching as a whole, but we'll see when i get to it.
There's a famous saying that if you give players a chance, they'll optimize the fun out of a game.
This is very common in the Monster Hunter fanbase where instead of experimenting with different weapons and armour and finding what suits you, many players just go online to find the most optimum combination.
What's funny is they're literally by passing a key aspect of what the game is supposed to be about. Players will never get to try weapons they might actually enjoy because they make a beeline for the most optimized load out.
I wish more games randomized certain aspects so that no two players have the exact same path through it.
Edit - Just saw you mention MH
haha yeah same thing happened with me. didnt want to waste time with stuff that wasn't good so looked up builds, how to farm zennys, all that other stuff
With some games, I have to fight the urge to do too much research. For example, I got Divinity Original Sin 2, and hadn't played a CRPG in years. I read the wikis, the build guides, looked at maps...So much stuff that I was actually a bit paralyzed and obsessed. It basically ruined the game for me. I had to quit, and wait a few months and just try a playthrough with no info and then I really enjoyed it, errors, dumb builds, and "bad" choices and all.
Another guide trap game is Path of Exile. But really, any RPG, ARPG, strategy, or survival/crafting game with build guides and shit can get to be too much information and you're just following someone else's playthrough and not really experiencing it for yourself.
totally feel that man. like you said, I need to make a conscious effort to just go into games blind because that truly does make some game experiences that much better. RPGs in particular, since there is usually just SO much stuff (loot, spells, quests, whatever) that it can be easy to just start looking up the best builds rather than just going through the game and having fun
i still need to play DOS2 though. have heard great things but I am a bit afraid to just jump into it as I feel like i might be overwhelmed
I think another factor is the other players calling you a noob if you have a less optimized build, less optimized party, if you can't beat a particular boss. Basically if you don't play the way they do, they will call you a noob. This puts pressure on you to abandon your vision and play the way they do. I don't know why the cRPG community is like this. The Table Top is so nice and welcoming.
Such a nice work! This video deserves way more likes.
appreciate you taking the time to watch it! :D
I still think the point made at the end is the key point, we are the ones who deiced if we play the games or not.
While I'm not against using guides, I tend to only use them if I'm stuck at a specific thing and want the game 'done' (Though this is also normally only the case when going for 100% say lol) but as you said, having the option to use them is what makes it great.
definitely! while I lamented that maybe we lost something (which I still do think we maybe have a bit), but in the end, we don't have to use all the info and still go into games blind if we want the full experience
@@JamesLikesGames One thing I think we have missed is the scene of mystery and 'I header you can do X' or 'Y is in the game as a secret'. Mainly due to data mining and such, which is one of the biggest shames.
yeah that's definitely true. on the other hand though - we may never have learned those secrets to begin with if not for the internet allowing ppl to discuss their fav games and stuff
@@JamesLikesGames Oh yeah~
Recently I feel like Elden Ring was ruined by guides for me. Elden Ring content at launch was ubiquitous. Struggling through the game and seeing guides pop up everywhere, streamers getting through the game at a lightning fast pace because viewer aid. If Elden Ring had been made in the 90's or early 2000's its secrets would have been actual secrets. Now everything is known and out in the open. Especially when a lot of the guide makers are given early access. What's the point of struggling through it when its all been done before.
I don't know, it doesn't feel special anymore just doing it with no help, because there aren't any conversations where I can say something about a game and have it not be common knowledge.
I remember the secret candy cheat in Pokémon red and blue was passed along person to person. I visited with a family friend and her son told me about it. It sounded like somebody was messing with you when you heard it, but if you took the time to actually try it out you couldn't believe it was real. When that messed up pokemon appeared I was so excited that it actually worked!
But just like guides, it actually ruined the experience. Our brains want challenge as much as it wants easy calories and dopamine dumps. For whatever reason it feels better to struggle through something then be handed it.
Or playing Resident Evil as a kid, not knowing where the hell to go or what to do. That game takes 2 hours if you know where everything is, but as kids we played RE1 and RE2 for months.
They killed it.
yeah definitely. it's nice to have guides if you need them, but it can definitely feel like you need to make a concerted effort to not look at videos about a game you're playing so you can avoid the surprises and whatnot
That just means you are online too much. Games only felt like secrets because you were probably talking to ACTUAL PEOPLE. You literally referenced a time period more than 2 decades ago. You never noticed this in-between that time and now? Did you even watch the video? He literally demonstrates how guides were always around. The difference is you weren't addicted to the internet.
@@nezahuatez No idea why you're so hostile. Cheers buddy.
discovered a fantastic youtuber, what a day. mate good luck and keep making videos, I'll keep watching, and am excited when you become big, good incentive to keep entertaining us haha
truly appreciate it! i hope i can make you proud
Real shame about your experience with DST. It's my favorite game, and discovering everything myself was the best part of the experience. I wish I could wipe my memory and go through it again.
lmao! all good :) i still had a lot of fun regardless, but definitely a nice feeling to learn and all
I agree. I haven't played elden ring yet. I skip by videos of it so I don't spoil the experience when I play it finally. I've done the same thing with nier automata and I was hyped being able to use A2 being that I didn't know I would be able to
Great Video. Another Aspect are the sheer number of games released today. Therefore I am way less inclined to stay longer with a game then before, especially if get to a passage that is not very well explained or has confusing mechanics. Also gaining game knowledge can be it's own fun.
yeah that's very true too. just my steam library has hundreds of unplayed games but the ones I really get into I also find myself looking up things, checking out the subreddits, and whatnot. when i was playing starcraft, I probably spent as much time reading and watching as I did playing
IMO, it tends to depend on the game.
For Graphic Adventure Games (like Valiant Hearts), guides can be pretty important. If you've ever heard of the series "Ross's Game Dungeon", you learn pretty quickly why guides can be important for those types of games (Oh Jesus... The Armed and Delirious episode...)
For Narrative Driven Games that are more oriented toward action; I think they're a detriment. The recent remake of the OG Half Life, Black Mesa, is a good example (*really* good remake btw); and the fan mod Entropy Zero: 2. I only used a guide *once* for both of those games; for Black Mesa, I had gotten stuck on a puzzle that I thought I had solved, only to find out my game had bugged out and needed to redo it. For Entropy Zero: 2, I had been stuck for about 20 minutes and had gotten fed up with the damned escape and evasion (and in the guide I looked up, it was more of an exploit than anything else that was difficult to pull off).
As I said, it all depends.
of course. and ultimately it doesn't rly matter - as long as u enjoy the game. but like you said, narrative driven games (usually easier to figure out) do lose a bit when you need to stop yourself and find the solution
I think bad UI is also to blame for this. A lot of in-game tool-tips, manuals, and encyclopedia are so useless. Devs don't put any effort in it because they think they can rely on 3rd-party wikis made by players. The problem comes in when the game is not that popular, the wikis are bare bones, there's barely any written or video guides. This in turn reduces the number of new players who might want to try the game.
interesting take! definitely hadn't thought of that. do you have any examples?
Would love to have an example of this. One of the best games that people love discovering things in is Dark Souls and there is barely any clues.
Completely agree. The internet ruined consoles. This is why the ps2 will always be the last good console.
I'm not sure if you play it, but this feels a lot like path of exile Only a few metabuilds that people follow every 3 month reset. Very good video though man. I landed here from watching your rimworld in 2022 video. Your sub count belies your video quality sir.
i only played a bit of poe with friends, never got too far. but i'm not surprised. i remember when D3 first came out bunch of my friends were similarly looking up build guides and stuff. also - thank you for checking it out! truly appreciate it and the compliment :D
Warframe is also a game with a VERY loose meta
You're wrong. Internet guides ruin the exploration in video games. Especially in online games you feel like you have to watch it because everyone is informed and you are not. This is detrimental.
First like :)
wow that's how you know you've made it haha - FIRST!!
It’s me, I’m friend 😂
Games like Dark Souls 3 and Sekiro are great plays because even with a guide they are both very hard. Highly recommend Sekiro since you’re not a big fan of grinding!
lol!! i've been waiting for Sekiro to go on a bigger sale haha