I SOLVED Final Fantasy 7 Rebirth's Ending In 48 Hours! *GUARANTEED!* **FACT!!!**
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- Опубликовано: 28 май 2024
- HERE WE GO!! TIME FOR ME TO TELL THE OBJECTIVE SINGULAR TRUTH ABOUT AERITH, FINAL FANTASY 7 REBIRTH AND THE ENDING. ONLY I KNOW ALL THE FACTS AND MY POV IS THE ONLY ONE THAT IS TRUE!! REEEHEEEHEEEE. Nah but for real. Gonna be diving into every corner of ending spoiler territory for Final Fantasy 7 Rebirth and gonna get. real juicy. #finalfantasy #finalfantasy7remake #ff7rebirth #finalfantasyviirebirth #squareenix
As ever guys, your views, subs and sharing of ideas/passion is SO appreciated. For those who wish to support on Patreon, its sooooo very appreciated and we'd love to have you in the community character rep!: / finalfantasypeasant 
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What always gets to me is Aerith saying cloud in the sleeping forest that he must focus on himself, the real him, and to leave sephiroth to her to handle. And then the Aerith of the ending says “you promise?” When cloud says he will stop sephiroth.
Those you hate...those you fear...those you love.
I don't quite buy this theory. Heard it from max as well. I think when the current Aerith said she'll handle Seph, to me it meant her attempt at praying but that failed. Not sure if Jenova can mimic lifestream Aerith that even Nanaki can sense.
That is an incredible point
@@mibcdI’m tired of people like you, you the same mfs that kept doubting max’s theory’s about remake, and most of them were right. Get out of yo bubble
@@mibcd jenova can alter reality just by existing. it says so in its bestiary entry. anything is on the table
“I’m broke too….just financially” LOL
reppin' those peasanty ways
Aerith is so unsettling at the end. I think that’s one thing we can all agree on. Something is definitely off about her. She’s not acting like herself. Even if she’s “lifestream/omni Aerith”.
Almost like she isn’t the real Aerith, and is actually a Jenova induced hallucination meant to screw with Cloud even more.
@@phantomslay5612 agreed. I think it’s some Jenova stuff at play for sure.
I do not agree. :)
"What if I said I wasn't?" -> Call back to their first date is very Aerith. "I'll send up smoke!" -> Silly Aerith being silly is very Aerith. Her looking over Red and Tifa is very Aerith. Her feeling bad about Cid is very Aerith. And her goodbye was heartfelt and sincere. None of those things felt off.
The only moment that I felt was odd is when she goes "you promise?!" when Cloud promises to stop Sephiroth. But I felt like it was cringe more than anything. Which... is actually very Aerith. 😅
people said this same thing in remake, it's literally just how aerith is
@@vulcanh254 the shot of her stopping in her tracks at the "you promise" part is very sinister feeling honestly. it really does feel like its jenovaroth trying to bait cloud into coming to his body with the black materia
I think sepiroth is hunting down aerith in each different timeline and killing her…that’s why she took cloud to the dream world to get the white materia. Before sepiroth showed up and killed that version of aerith
that's so warped to think of, that's he literally hunting her down in every world and killing her.
@@salmark9080 it is but it also makes sense, seems like a very sepiroth thing to do. Because you could tell she was saying goodbye to him that church. As soon as sepiroth showed up, she immediately pushed cloud through the time portal. Then thats when I started thinking what if sepiroth is literally hunting down all the different versions of her
@@salmark9080 I also think that aerith from the dream world is a different aerith. Because cloud gave her the yellow flower pin. But back in their timeline the pin is gone
I like your thoughts. I actually have a VERY similar idea and I think I know the mechanism behind what your talking about. Next vid will be lit
yep makes it even darker and higher stakes than the OG! I think people saying the multiverse removes all the risk are being a little too dismissive. I think the conflict here is even greater because than what is the point of doing all of this. Square wanted us to go on another big adventure with our favorite characters@@athenavickers6281
34:35 “and has let themselves be swayed by the intrusion of alien contents” Wow, that Jung quote gave me chills, dude!
Excellent analysis. Jenaerith isn’t the only reasonable interpretation of the ending but it makes a lot of thematic sense. I think the unsettling tone and emotional dissonance of the ending at least argues that there’s a strong element of delusion in the Aerith we see at the end. And it would explain them leaving those scenes out of the ending credits reel.
9:08 the destiny door bit- On my first watch I thought it was the power of friendship that opened it up- But on rewatch, the party members say Aerith's name...but it isn't until Cloud says "Aerith" that 3 of the black whispers snap into action and open the way. There's so many blink and you miss it moments! Dream Pheonix is another content creator to check out- homie also has some really good cooks. Great video Peasant, really got my brain goin!
When Tifa enters the capital to see Cloud holding Aerith, there are 3 different depictions. One where there is no blood, one where aerith has blood on her, but theres a few frames where Cloud is the one covered in blood. Do you think Cloud may have had a part in Aeriths death or if that is what Tifa might believe cloud had a part in?
So yeah... im leaning in the Janaerith camp today. I'll be somewhere else tomorrow. Infact. I'm about to record my CORE theory and I've confirmed. NOONE else has had this thought, at least among youtubers. Plz help me cook by sharing any observations to help this Rebirth ending newbie out! 🥰
I don't know why that didn't occur to me til you brought it up in your last stream!
35:50 and that's when my brain exploded holy shiz crackers my dude!!!!!
just keep cooking and found despair in part 3 when you found out that Aerith is Jenova is only in your own mind, you guys all are master of your own illusion, just please has the courage to admit you was wrong when part 3 comes out ok!
Loving your theories so far Pez.
I replayed the OG after finishing rebirth and there is a scene directly after the water burial that really solidifies the party's motivation for stopping Sephiroth, brings them closer as a team and really allows the grieving process to begin. Comparatively Cloud is so disconnected from the rest of the party in rebirth that they presumably haven't discussed their motivation and they all seem to be struggling with their grief.
The party is far worse off than in OG and I love it. I'm excited to see the possibility of some amazing character arcs in parts 3.
Also I find it interesting that the Rufus scene plays directly after the "Almost" water burial scene. Showing how the dead can be used to manipulate by Jenova/Sephiroth. I also like how that scene basically confirms that Rufus is Sarruf.
It's easy to be cynical when it comes to SE but my hope is that all this has been well thought out and that every detail has been placed with purpose. The ending has a ton of very purposeful feeling details in it, so there ain't no gettin' offa this train for me.
@@lavieedenelNa. The answer is D all of the above. To justify Clouds major fall in Mideel. Anything else is fail.
With regards to Jenova being Aerith at the end, putting aside Cloud's fractured mind and Red being fooled, Jenova had no reason to keep up the charade the moment the Bronco was too far out of range for them to be able to see her.
Totally logical here. And it is something as to " hey guys, things get complex and you get used to guess wrongly that you've overcome the riddle but... not quite"
There is almost allways a 'not quite' in the plot.
Besides, regarding Red's sense and making the analogy as yours here, one physical and objective phenomenon should not be filmed, displayed at screen that is, in both distinct ways: 1) visually before Cloud's sight, 2) perceiving Aerith's presence, presumably masking Jenova's being, in case of Red.
That's an interesting theory. Jenova uses Aerith to win Cloud over and control him. That would make Zack's role more apparent. Leading the party in Cloud's absense. I would honestly love to see the entire 3rd game where Cloud turns away from the party to follow what he thinks is Aerith, but really it's Jenova.
Remake Whispers are grey. They weren't controlled by Aerith or Sephiroth. White Whispers in Rebirth are controlled by Aerith and Black by Sephiroth. Remake ones are controlled purely by the Planet. BTW Cloud going down in character popularity polls just proves that people rate characters by how much they like them as a person, rather than how well they're written... Which I've always found ridiculous & immature! Imperfect, contradictory & flawed characters are my favorite types of characters. I also agree that we need more Jenova. We've gotten way too much Sephiroth in these two games. So much so that it takes away from his presence & impact.
Cloud deflected Sephiroth's masamune and saved her. This shot is real. But watch what happens next. Aerith's white whispers are circling around the deflected masamune and suddenly the scenario changes and you see blood and Aerith being hit.
It was Aerith changing her fate. She chose to die for obvious reasons. She made Sephiroth turn her again into her omni Aerith version which transcends the worlds. So yeah, she is dead in Cloud's world now but at the same time a part of the bigger game.
we saw aerith with zack in advent children maybe thats what square enix is going for the end game in this ff7 remake. the aerith and zack in advent children is "alive" in their own "branched timeline" and they can/will sometimes hop in to other timelines to help in dire need of help.
Exactly! I don't know how people forgetting that advent children is the conclusion to all this lol! In advent children during the fight between cloud and sephiroth zack asks cloud "you need a hand with him" and cloud just shakes his head no
yes .I don't know why people keep saying theory if they have advent children. they brought Zack in remake just to lead to that scene with aerith and Zack . they both live in the life stream.
@@jodaakbr7227"living" in the lifestream equals dead my dude lol
Wonder how many gonna take the sarcasm serious! 😆 I know I'm late to this ending party so I expect you guys have seen some or similar takes. But damn... the internet is full of people screaming POV's with such little knowledge of the game. I saw one person write a paragraph that Red confirms Aerith's status and cant be anything else because he has ZERO to do with Jenova...
... zero? Like bruh. He's pumped on the J-juice. What doth yee be smoking. The other half is full of people ramming absolutes and definitives... as if such a think exists here lol. I REALLY wanna know you guys takes. Any evidence or insights that add support for either outcome.
I'm inclined to believe Red smelled her as this moment is foreshadowed in Junon, if you approach Red while dressed in Shinra uniform he immediately recognises Cloud, Aerith and Tifa by scent, Red also mentions that he should be on the journey at the start of the game because he has a good nose for it. I think Reds ultimate responsibility for the party will be as a decrypter of sorts. He'll be the one to tell the difference between Jenovaerith and Life stream Aerith.
It's the internet. If a game producer tells you they made an ending deliberately open to interpretation, then people crawl out of the woodwork to tell you that there is only one correct interpretation. And anyone who disagrees is flat out wrong.
Thank you!! I've been thinking for a while that Red might not be such a reliable source of information, due to the fact that he too was experimented on by Hojo. It stands to reason that he has Jenova cells within him too. So far, you are the only other person I have come across who has mentioned this detail.
I am firmly in the Jenaerith camp. I think all the little secretive smiles Cloud and Aerith are sharing are creepy and totally out of character! Also - great catch about all of Aerith's lines in the final scene being lines that she has already said. There's nothing new there - it's just a clever manipulation.
Of your three possible options, I think Jenaerith is the best route to deliver an impactful story. What a juicy and shocking twist it would deliver! I think the devs would be foolish to pass up such a promising opportunity!
Love your vids! Thank you.
Personally I think everyone crying over that scene are just doing it for the viewers, it happens a lot now, and if people *don’t react appropriately* viewers get upset and cry that they didn’t pay attention or whatever
Its insulting because it is obviously done only for the clout and the views. Not a genuine reaction.
I played every game in the compilation except before crisis and I cried when she died the first time I saw it in rebirth. But I think that it had much more to do with the whole changes and that whole roller coaster of ''is she dead or not and what tf is going on?''. Maybe some people fake it but the letsplayers that I watched were pretty emotional about it too.
Could you present the Broken Mosaic theory?
That is, Seph is the Puppet of Jenova. To start it off. He always mentions to cloud " you're just a puppet"
Yet, it seems cloud is the only person able to fight it off. We lost Seph completely back at Nibleheim.
Broken M Theory simply put is, Ancients couldn't defeat Jenova, so last ditch effort they fractures reality into thousands of variations and having the Arbiters of fate make sure, that plots never deviate so Jenova never becomes aware.
This is why, Seph new plan is to bring the worlds back together. Because it doesn't matter how things play out in each reality, if they are all not in the original state, then nobody wins. Cycle continues.
They did this back in Remake too, where people were just shitting on everyone who thought it was the multiverse/timeline shenanigans (that turned out to be correct)
It’s so dumb, Half the fun of these things is listening and hearing theory’s because it’s cool!
Every time I heard a theory or explanation after remake all I ever thought was, "that's so shit" and it drove any interest I had in rebirth further into the dirt. Rebirth is just a repeat. People desperately scrambling for any shit explanation that could save the shit story. It's sad
honestly the story is alright. little to much with the destiny stuff but they had to do something instead of just a straight story remake of 7. if they did that people would just wait for it to be on sale at 30 bucks to buy it and the whole project would lose money
@garrettstickel1189 first off how many successful remakes does RE alone have to make before that lie stops being said? And second off the project is already on its way to losing money and its in large part due to the changes they made. Lot of people not bothering till all 3 parts are out, lot of people not bothering at all because of changes to the story or giving up after part 1 because of it.
This project whatever people personally feel about it is objectively a failure.
@redbearington3345 re remakes are about gameplay 1st off. 2nd they still expanded the story quite a bit. also if you have been paying attention to ff7 remake games they have hinted at things but the story is still the same. you can carbon copy almost every major plot device from og into it. the point is the idea of things being different will draw more into buying it. for action combat this and ff16 are tons better then 13 or 15. change my mind
@@redbearington3345 I highly doubt they are losing money. they posted a 200 million yen loss last quarter... mostly from games they cut from development. 200 million yen ain't shit when converted to dollars
Ahhh, I love the smell of cooking. Well, Pez, I think the creators wrote the ending in a certain way to spawn theory crafting to the max. So, it doesn't really matter how varied the theories are, but rather that we theorize, period. They knew what they were doing and various team members have admitted to watching these theory panels and videos. So you should feel free hitting us with all you've got!
As for the theories, I've latched onto 2, being of 2 minds. One, I think Cloud's mind has made up Aerith's presence. He's already proven to have a hard time accepting painful trauma (with Zack) and I think Jenova's influence has aided in scrambling his brain. That smile he gives Aerith when they are at the pool of water and everyone else is mourning was creep af. The guy ain't okay.
I also think Jenova or Sephiroth will keep him in this frame of mind, fracturing him until Tifa comes in to do what will undoubtedly be the most important scene in part 3: putting Cloud back together. I think it'd be interesting if before that time comes in part 3, Cloud continues to "see" Aerith around here and there. If he does, I do think at that point that it would a Jenova thing. I don't know if it's Jenovaerith at the Tiny Bronco ending scene in Part 2 like Max Dood seems to think. Cloud is totally strange in that scene anyway. But he was the only one who could see her then (even if Red allegedly sensed her). Every time he looked away, she was gone. And when he'd looked, she'd reappear. But again, him lapsing out of reality is what he's done before
And I agree with you Pez. I think Cloud's mind feels that his delusions are better than his reality: he not only lost Aerith but he also failed to save her despite being warned something bad would happen. The reality is too painful, and him accepting who he actually is is painful too. Total imposter syndrome and a series of other mental issues. He don't "got this" lol. Poor boy.
Anyway this was fun. Keep'm coming Pez.
I dont think it’s Jenovaerith in the Tiny Bronco scene - the rest of the cues (music, mood, etc.) don’t really seem to line up with that and the writers/production team are really using that scene as a chance for the player to say goodbye to Aerith. Seems unlikely from a meta/storytelling standpoint. Contrast the mood there with the mood in the scene where the party is all crying and Cloud looks over and sees Aerith - the music there is cueing us that something is amiss. I think we will essentially have 2 Aeriths - omniAerith (whom is dead in the traditional sense) and Jenovaerith that is confusing Cloud- in part 3 with Tifa being the eventually key to clarity.
i was waiting for this kind of video from you
Yeah, the fact that they listed all of the options they predicted fans would conceive tells me that it's either all three of them or there's a fourth option that no one has speculated on yet. Because it's certainly not one of the three. Love your break down on why it could be Jenova's manipulations. Max introduced this (which I'm sure you know) and he got a ton of flack for it. But I have yet to see someone fully disprove it. It just keeps getting juicier. Great work!
Also a note on your comment about 'what's Vincent's role and what does he know'. I'm not saying I have the answer, but I advise you to look in his chamber where all the graffiti are. There's a corner than has a huge mathematical equation where the names Jenova, Loz and Yazoo are located. A math professor stated there are hints of quantum theories that indicate he could be aware of the multiverse, so might be something to look into.
The hasn't been 1 single theory I've subscribed to. I've liked parts of multiple theories from different people so I'm just enjoying how creative people are being and consuming it all 😅
I do like the idea that lifestream/omni Aerith is the one making Cloud think she's alive, because she knew in that moment of her death if Cloud broke it would be the end. Cloud is so much further gone than he was in the og so it makes sense that it would require more drastic action to save him; she denied Sephiroth fully harvesting Cloud's despair by depriving Cloud of feeling that despair at all.
I've loved watching the interviews Shrodingersbabyseal has done with multiple people. Except that Tifa stan one. She made me embarrassed to prefer Tifa/Cloud 😬
I hope you get to watch the roundtable that a bunch of creators did. It was nice seeing them bounce ideas off each other.
I also like the theory that because the team weren't there when it happened, there's a chance they might think Cloud killed Aerith. With the way he's been acting, especially at the temple, I can't imagine the thought didn't cross their minds.
I think Arith is dead. Yes Cloud is coping with the death of Arith in a a very bad way. When Tifa helps him find himself in part 3 .I think Cloud will finally expect Ariths death and we will get to see him laying her down in the pond of water and say good buy.
You know what, I thought it was super odd how they left out such an iconic moment. So I think you might be right that they'll do it in part 3. But I'm not convinced it's necessarily going to play out like that.
Keen to watch this one, hopefully I'll get to it tonight!
Brilliant! You and i are of the same mind on the ending.
I think the black materia also factors into this. Cloud was so casual about it, and then combining it with the buster sword. I wonder if that affects his memories of zack?
Good stuff Pez, I'd like to know your opinion on Tifa's perspective in all of this. I know the main focus has been on Cloud at the end for obvious reasons but I feel especially in rebirth that they have dived into Tifa's character and perspective a lot more than the original.
Things I want to mention (as you did mention a couple of these things) are of course the section where she fall's in the Lifestream and rides on the Weapon, views her memories and then Sephiroth appears to her which isn't something that really happens that often (usually he appears to Cloud or is seen by everyone). Also the twin Weapons at the end if that relates back to Tifa at all or just signifies the parallel worlds merging.
The other thing is when the party rush in after Aerith has been struck down and she is in Cloud's arms. It flashes to Tifa first looking at the scene, then has the screen go distorted usually like when Cloud sees something else etc to show the blood on her and on Cloud. Do you think that was just to show the difference in perspectives of Cloud and the rest of the team or specifically Tifa seeing more than that possibly?
I find it interesting none the less if I'm looking too much into the wrong aspect, but I find she is also acting the strangest after Aerith's death too, not fully mourning her loss, like something else is on her mind. That and we know that when Cloud loses it completely. Tifa will be the one to help him out and we will take control of her. I wonder too how that aspect of the game will play out seeing as Tifa had that sort of experience in Rebirth already.
Anyway I'm too tired and this probably doesn't make a lot of sense but hopefully a different perspective and angle to think about.
Think a lot of people who didnt cry are the ones who knew what was gonna happen and were expecting a specific type of emotional reaction. I've watched a bunch of newer players reactions and they mostly cry at the ending. OG fans were given more to think about and analyze like detectives lmao
you could be right about this lol. Defo the case that as it was playing out. My mind was going into hyper aware overdrive of the differences occuring, and trying to logic them out in real time. Someone new with no concept of those changes is just experiancing the moment lol. You've probably touched on the reality of new vs old players here
Yeah, I reckon you've nailed it
Thats not true at all. They didn't commit to her loss nor her salvation. What we got is an unfulfilling mess.
Well Marlene did say aerith is going to die before it happens and then there's the song she sang so kinda makes her death obvious
@FreeFlow__ they did commit to her death cloud talks to her all the time in advent children she is dead
This was a fun dive, thanks pez. Something that stood out to me was how Rebirth almost totally clarified the reveals of the OG Lifestream Scene - Cloud knows about Zack, he knows he and Tifa were never that close as kids, iirc he also remembers Tifa crossing the bridge as a kid. With the meat of the OG Lifestream Scene taken out, it seems well placed instead for it to focus on Cloud's psyche with regards to Aerith's death and (alternate) life.
I also had the same thought that Cloud's supposed psychosis will be the wedge between him and the team in part 3. However, I also wonder if it'll be turned on its head again somehow (because Cloud's mental psyche issues is a known plot point, which SE is acutely aware of) and that his confidence in Aerith being alive will in the end be proven right, just perhaps not in the literal sense he's seeing her.
Also fwiw, Cloud and Aerith's ending lines dont mention promise in Japanese (just before the "No promises to keep" line pops up). I dunno if it's an unfortunate translation choice or deliberate wink by SENA lol, but just sharing that!
Lastly, I'm really shocked by how closed off the fandom in general has been towards theories. Everyone seems very fixed that their/ the majority interpretation is the correct one 🙄 no one will know for sure until part 3 comes out, and coming up with different theories is part of the fun! So looking forward to your next video!
Love the video, the theories are so juicy! I especially loved all the Jung stuff it’s so interesting, thank you for researching and sharing!
My personal theory is that Jenova/Delusion Aerith and Omni-Aerith are both present at the end. That the Aerith that wakes up when Cloud tells her to and the one sitting by the water are Jenova, but the Aerith in the final fight and the one by the Bronco are Omni Aerith.
I could see Northern Crater 2.0 where Cloud has deluded himself into thinking he saved Aerith but Sephiroth reveals to him that he didn’t at the crater. just like how with the Nibelheim flashback he sneaks in the lie of “you’re not really cloud”, he will break him with “it was just your delusions she’s gone for good (unless you help me with my reunion plan)”. Though the truth would be that she’s still around in the same capacity as Advent Children, and he will still have to face the fact that she isn’t around corporeally
You look like you're staying at Johnny's Seaside Inn.
I did cry. I think it was a little from surprise. The fake out that they pulled. Also, seeing her in Cloud's arms with the flashes of the blood.
I missed this. Loving it.
G'day Pez! A theory to help with the cooking process. What if the transition from one timeline to the next is a result of Zack dying, but we aren't being shown a death scene? I can't think of all occurrences but the ones that stick out for me are outside Midgar at the end of remake and when Zack chooses to go to the shinra building to help cloud. He is met with a platoon of troopers on both occasions. What if he actually did die in these instances and that caused the transition? This could also be the case at the church when Sephi slashes him. Also, the scene where Biggs dies, Zack actually avoids the troopers and this does not result in a timeline shift. My thinking is that "death" is what is required to transition timelines (at least for Zack anyway). Anyway, big of yours and have been for a while, all the best on your journey!
I'm not convinced on the Aerith Jenova theory. I think it's only partiality correct in that her ghost is a manifestation of the war in the lifestream between her & Jenova/Sephy. It's a representation of how dire the situation in the lifestream is. I think Jenova or Sephy has influence over her ghost but so does Aerith.
I think she acknowledged Nanaki as an attempt to comfort Tifa, & said goodbye at the end without the others present, something Jenova wouldn't do. I like to think Aerith can muster enough power against Jenova(or Sephy) to be able to pull positive things like that off. Jenova can maniplulate & coerce but Aerith can guide too and loves Cloud & her friends that much❤ They are both connected to Cloud, Aerith thru love(Cloud's real self), Jenova thru S cells.
She's dead in our world but alive in the world Cloud created when he breached fate when he saved her. Cloud knows about the multiple worlds intertwined & the "confluence of emotions." Limit break was empty cuz he knows he saved her, not cuz he's nuts. Notice the whispers unblocked the door AFTER he saved her. None of the party saw him save her. They only saw the death scene as Sephy was merging worlds. They won't believe his story(Tifa might cuz she saw two different worlds when she ran in) & that's exactly what Sephy wants, to isolate Cloud, destroy him mentally and hallow him out. Cloud's going downhill fast & was unbearable toward the end(amazing VA omg)but he knows a lot too which makes it even more interesting.
Was keen to hear your thoughts and it aligns with mine. When I first beat it, I was like it makes narrative sense. Really wanna see cloud dark knight arc, and if they introduce gameplay elements ( like prime mode was a teaser)
But after hear the ultimania stuff with Jung etc the melding of psychosis and world creation just make sense. But I do know square loves a switch up so the straight alive theory isn’t dead yet. That wouldn’t hit as hard in the next game tho from a story sense but I cud see it working
I'm also surprised at how people could even cry at Aerith's death tbh. Even for new players it was super confusing because Cloud saves her, then he doesn't, then there's blood, then no blood, then Cloud tells her to open her eyes and she does, they both smile, making it look like she survived Tseng style, but actually she really is dead, but is she truly? Zack isn't dead but he is. Does death mean anything if you can just pop in a different world?
I watched a few people I follow reacting to that scene and they were both confused and unsure of how to feel. One of them said "it wasn't your destiny to die, it wasn't your time yet" because she tought Aerith was being saved like Barret in part 1 lol, then she started crying when she realized Tifa was sad and only Cloud could see her. So it takes time for people to realize Aerith is truly gone. So how can you cry at the start then?
I think most reactions to Aerith's death are fake or exaggerated / forced.
for me the last scene when the tiny bronco flies away leaving Aerith alone is a very sad moment, I cried for it, its aerith farewell scene
I think the devs just moved the sad part into a metaphor
I don't know how people got emotional at the death scene here. I genuinely was spiraling in terms of fascination during that whole sequence that it just passed by with questions - There was no time to get emotional. However, the moment Cloud got pushed into the rainbow portal in the church by Aerith time stopped for me for sure. While not anything like "cry"-emotional, that part really really just hit you with that heavy feeling, especially seeing Sephiroth pop open the door, while you fall helplessly to another reality.
I agree with both of you, those 2 moments were the most powerful I felt. Even rewatching, I tear up at those two moments the most haha. Her "it's been fun" at the church hits hard. And when the plane leaves as she says a heartfelt good bye. It's a real good bye as in we won't see each other again... Except in part 3. 😂
So glad you agree with what I thought on Aerith at the end being Jenova-Aerith (although with hints of Aerith surviving in another timeline, or at least her presence being there as omni-Aerith which I think Jenova could USE to fool the party). Red XIII's line never threw me off because he was the character that was tricked in the original. I guess it stems from me wanting so badly for Jenova to have a bigger role, I've always wanted to know more about her. I guess it's my love for horror sci-fi coming through and I do understand other people not wanting the story to go that dark, but personally I can't wait!
Also, really interesting to hear from your perspective about the psychology and spirituality behind Cloud's current mentality, top-tier stuff. Thank you Pez.
Re dreamweaving and shared dreams, this taken from Lifestream Black:
"As long as Cloud remembers me, I can continue to exist. Within the Lifestream, and on the surface. Even if my spirit disseminates, even if just one fragment of a memory courses around the planet, in the end I can count on Cloud’s consciousness to bring me back", the man (Sephiroth) thought.
Get the feeling this is going to be fairly important.
awwww you referenced my micro avatar idea!!!!
I watched the video. Here is my take. My theory. Whispers are kind of like the essence of ancients will in the timeline (this actually includes Aerith and Sephiroth). They usually appear when something is about to die, change or alter the events in OG. Focus on how strong the whispers are around Sephiroth. Barret was killed by Sephiroth in Remake but the whispers appeared and "fixed it". Sephiroth always multiplies the whispers when he comes. Even if it's in Clone form.
Also Aerith the transparent and white materia. We don't know what the transparent materia dpes. It could harness life stream or holy but I doubt it. Pay attention to when Cloud gets the white materia and sees his Aerith in the sleeping forest. Cloud hands her the white materia and she hands him the transparent materia. She was tricky.
I first played FF7 back in the day on the PS1 and this franchise has never left me, to this day Aerith is still my favourite FF character, and I consider her to be the definition of strong when people talk about strong characters. I dont want Aerith to die again, ive spent 26 years wishing there was another way, and I want that wish to finally come true. I hope it does.
Die I cry during Aerith's death this time? No, but I did cry during the dream date sequence.
man, it's an old video comment but I must answer it. I have the same opinion, the same feeling, the same hope. In my old comments i say that for 30 years i've been trying to save her, 30 bloody years. I spoke to my wife, after the remake that this game is making me feel guilty for 23 years. I noticed that us whom played ff not in this century have a different feeling than others, maybe because in a baby internet age, that shocking death left everyone perplex, speechless, playing trying to find a way do save her etc. it's another bound with this game. and do you know the worst thing... that rebirth just not only raised our anguish but increased it because, now i failed at least THREE times, for 3 fucking time i was useless to save her, and the last sadistic point was she pushing me to die alone in the church. I can imagine Cloud whe he realizes that he failed multiple times in saving her, if one time already broke him, imagine now...ps i still cry in the church push scene
I’m on board of Jenaerith and psychosis. It was my immediate thought after that ending that Cloud’s being messed with since the “Wake up” bit was so awkward and the burial in the lake was totally skipped in our PoV despite everyone acting appropriately for Aerith’s murder having occurred just like in the original game.
Noting that every line Aerith says is just repeated from earlier points in both Remake and Rebirth solidifies it more.
Great point about repeating the same lines. Anyone else notice at the 2 vendors at the beginning of CH 14 on Aerith’s date that each repeat Barret & Tifa’s lines. The first says “Come on man!” Ala Barret & the 2nd vendor offers her own recipe just like Tifa does in Remake making the Cosmo Canyons. I think they are trying to wake Cloud up… or Jennova clones or shit who knows lol
That is just like, um, your opinion, man. And I like your opinion. (EDIT: damn actually your theory goes deep, and mentioning Jung stuff that other content creators have not mentioned yet. This is great. 👍👍👍)
damn dude... my opinion is just my opinion? Gosh darn it, I was hoping my takes were enshrined in objective law 😆😉
Thanks dude, I'm still just a newbie to all this, excited to load more succulence into the cannon
awesome that you were able to get all this out within 48 hours!!!!
Can't remember who posted it but I watched a theory video that blew my mind. Someone pointed out that the sphere on Jenova Lifeclinger's chest looks an awful lot like Aerith's white materia. Throughout her phases she does the close up on her face. First time the eyes look hollow. The second time she does it her eyes look human as if she was absorbing the white materia and getting stronger. Then when the party knocks her back down the materia seems like it's busted and her eyes glow pink. Finally, when you beat her, the white sphere cracks and what seems to look like the lifestream pours out and white whispers come out of her chest. They also mentioned that Jenova Lifeclinger's attacks are like corrupted versions of Aerith's attacks. Also, white whispers seem to appear when Cloud gets static and sees Aerith as if she was alive makes me think that Jenova was taking Aerith's memories
Oooh, too bad you don’t remember where it came from! I’d love to give that a watch
@@amichau I found it! ruclips.net/video/kglIowKJhxk/видео.htmlsi=qVcy7uStRlzr7Q08
Awesome thoughts on the ending!
hello pez! ik this has nothing to do with rebirth but i would like to hear your thoughts and reaction to Reynatis unless i missed it and u have already talked about it before
Ahh yeah, ol Reynatis. I've not touched it yet. But enough people have been telling me about it that Im super curious to see what the hell everyones hyping about XD
I'm happy that Clouds mental decline will still be based on real psychiatric issues like disassociation and not just high fantasy explanations.
I've had time to think about what the ending means and I think all three factors are in play.
1. Cloud saved Aerith. The emphasis showing her hair tied up when she joins the final fight and not down means she wasn't stabbed. What we don't know is if that world still persists or was merged almost immediately to where she dies seconds later.
2. Cloud is disassociating in real time. The Aerith that holds his face and wakes up I believe are in his head. He did this with his mom and Zack. I believe Part 3 will show us his mother dying in front of him, Zack dying in front of him and Aerith dying in front of him. Cloud lying Aerith on the ground before his fight with Jenova is a shot for shot lake burial from the OG.
3. Aerith is a real lifestream ghost he can see. I'm torn on this. The Aerith with the sinister music at the lake and the one he has a conversation about promising to save Sephiroth is tricky. I don't know why she would support Cloud going to the northern crater knowING what awaits him there. Having Barret doubt him followed by Aerith cheering him on could be Jenova/Delusion. The final shot of her saying goodbye does sound sincere.
I've nailed it Peasant. My theories were dead on. My foil hat is the shiniest of foils.
Enjoy listening to your theory crafting!
I recently finished the game aswell and letting it all sink in. My initial thing is i'm not a fan of the timeline theory but think it is abit more nuanced. More memory lines (or 'sandboxes' of memory) over timelines. This is why sephiroth links merging of worlds to emotions in his speech after her death. Emotions has a stronger link to memory than time.
When world's merge, the memory of one world overwrites the memory of the other, and which memory takes precedent is based on the state of emotion at the time (still theorising this one). Could explain why sephiroth wants death and hatred in cloud but also the world through the Wutai war. As he says, loss is the emotion that is chief and if he can increase the amount of loss, he can control what the merging of all the memories look like.
Things that lead me to this:
1. Tifa seeing the overwriting of memory (blood vs non-blood on aerith)
2. Absence of the concept of time
3. The memory of death and way of dying being reenacted in the different memory lines like the groups of soldiers following Zack. Biggs/Wedge dying the same way. Even Aerith with Sephiroth coming to kill her from behind in the Church.
A random thing I saw watching some of the scenes in this video again was how the 3 white whispers sneak in with Cloud through the portal!
Why does no one talk about that extremely worried expression on aeriths face in the final scene? Right before cloud stops her in her tracks while saying he will stop sephiroth. She looks like she has absolutely no faith in her prayers or cloud and I'm still not sure why.
I interpreted Cloud seeing Aerith was more something like how he did that in Advent Children. That one shot at the lake of Aerith's face when Cloud is looking at her (2:14 in this video) did imply there's something "off" with Aerith somehow imo. I also agree that some of Aerith lines in the dream and ending sequence are also a bit off. It would be dark af if they go the direction of "Jenaerith", which I honestly would like to see. More exposition on Jenova's abilities would be great, it also reminds me of when Sauron deceived the Elves in Valinor.
It's interesting how the last staff Aerith gets before the end of rebirth has an ability called "Noble Sacrifice". Almost seems to imply to me that Aerith chose to die despite the fact that Cloud manage to save him, overriding that reality.
What I find interesting is the rift in the sky, actually looks just like the one in Clouds mind in the og.
I am leaning towards the coping Aerith. It's kinda his mind's go to, he doesn't even remember Zack till almost the end of disc 2 (OG). Plus I believe when Cloud finds out she is dead is when he'll break and go through the deep dive. Just my opinion, love the video!
Where I am on theories:
Max summed it up best as, they left enough in the ending that could both justify and squash any theory (like, Bronco Aerith = Jenova, but why does Red sense her and why does she say farewell after the ship leaves?) I think, just using in-game stuff, anything could be proven or disproven. So I've taken a different option, and I'm using out of game logic for my theories.
For me, I'm asking why they would've done certain things. The Whispers in Remake, that was clearly to set-up something with Aerith's death, which they delivered in a quasi yes/no fashion, hence this video. I considered that a proper guess on my part, so more overall questions I have from Rebirth.
1: Why show Cloud stopping Aerith's death, because I don't believe for a second the only reason was a fake-out.
2: Why are Cloud's visions incorporating alternate realities instead of a fake past?
3: Why did Tifa glitch herself and see Aerith who was not hurt?
4: Why show that Zack can cause worlds to diverge if Sephiroth was ultimately going to just reabsorb them?
5: Why the expansion of White Materia where, White Materia Aerith knows what's going to happen, but Clear Materia Aerith doesn't?
6: Why is Sephiroth hunting Omni-Aerith (and likewise, why did he underestimate her in the final battle)?
7: Why can certain people (Marlene, Zack, Biggs, Cloud in his dreams) see/understand alternate worlds?
8: (unrelated to this point) Why bring up Seto's promise to The Gi?
My conclusions/theories:
1, 4, and 6 I think are related, and in turn explain 5. Assuming the death was not a fake-out, we've seen that defying fate can open up a new world (via Zack). We see evidence of this via imagery around the blocking of Sephiroth. I think Cloud creating this new world made one where Aerith (with the white materia) is alive. And as long as a White Materia Aerith is alive, Sephiroth can not kill her (because, Materia is memories, White Materia = Omni-Aerith's memories), hence him being surprised she was still alive after "killing" her, because he did not kill the last Aerith. So the main Aerith of Rebirth is dead, but an alt-Aerith in a different world lives, which is why Omni-Aerith still exists.
3 and 7 can in turn explain 1. We know people have a collective unconsciousness that lets them see between worlds, so there is a connection there. Tifa has a more egregious case since its not just dreams, but an active vision. Its reasonable this is cause of her swim in the Lifestream. Because we see Tifa doing this, we can understand Cloud also does this, but to a much more extreme degree. Perhaps he took his own lifestream bath after defeating Sephiroth at Nibelheim, which caused the glitching.
So, while I buy the Jenova arguments, I think that Aerith at the end of Rebirth is from an alt-world, which is why Cloud can see her, and most likely the alt-world he created by stopping Sephiroth. This is still Omni-Aerith, who is functioning in a way to preserve Cloud's mind as much as possible, hence the change in personality. She needs Cloud to basically get well to have any chance to stop Sephiroth.
Related, I think Zack is in this Aerith's timeline, and his story will be about seeking her out. This will eventually converge at the Battle of Cloud's Mind where Omni-Aerith will die officially in front of Zack/Cloud, but find a way to put Zack in Cloud's timeline since both of them have the ability to defy fate. Small chance of Clean Slate Aerith making it there as well.
Finale will be about restoring the planet, which basically means going back to Fate (so Zack/Aerith will be dead), but akin to FF10, Zack/Aerith will get to live on in an alt-world as a reward for stopping Sephiroth (which, is likely related to the whole Gi arc and finding a way for the planet to absorb things made not from itself).
I believe Aerith died, and I think we are going to learn its much worse than what we believed in advent children, i always thought it was weird that Cloud asked if Sins can be forgiven... this always made me think that the story was that yes Sephiroth did kill Aerith using Cloud to do so. Manipulating Cloud into thinking he waz saving her when in reality hes the ones who did it... now Clouds mind is breaking from reality, he relived Chapter 9 of Remake. Its literally line for line chapter 9 when Aerith was supposed to return home... Cloud is projecting his desire that she had just gone home... When Tifa puts Cloud back together and helps him find the real Cloud, thats when we learn that distinction. The real Cloud saying what we all saw in the OG, and that is why Aerith in Advant Children says "I never blamed you."
However...
Plot twist, I believe Cloud is the one dying this time... i think Clouds returning to the planet... thats why every remake ends with him going to the edge of creation, Cloud has seven seconds before "the end" which is him fighting the last remnants of Jenova as he is the only one after DoC to have Jenova Cells who didnt turn into a "monster". I believe the first Sephiroth we saw in remake was what i refer to as "The Hero" Sephiroth, the one cloud knew before Jenova manipulated him. (Yes I believe wewill learn that even Sephiroth isnt beyond Clouds feelings as he himself said "theres nothing I dont cherish" which would also include Sephiroth). I think the last remnants of Jenova are trying to break cloud down so much that his spirit is broken and she can wear it like a shroud into the lifestream, and we get the final battle where everyone is fighting to save cloud from Jenova, and the battle is everyone reliving memories with Cloud to "wake him up" everyone can be involved because the promised land has no set time frame as it doesnt exist there... I think we will even get a Sephiroth redemption as Sephiroth, Kadaj, and crew to take out "mother" who manipulated them all.... and we will have our True Reunion...
At least that is my long drawn out theory, and the only one that makes sense to me from a story telling perspective...
Wow, I love that take on what "7 seconds" means! I think Cloud is going to die too.
@@surferdiegirl7 Thanks, I took many days to craft it as I played to get the platinum on rebirth and remake (currently working on intergrade before touching Cc reunion)
I believe its always going to lead to Cloud having to die, as Jenova lives inside of him. There is also the theory that Jenova was injected into red 13/Nannaki but he could have just been given a number in a new line of experiments. However I believe Nannaki will take the route of the Gi and remove himself from the life stream and is a protector 498 years afteradvent children.
I really believethw seven seconds is refering to the amount of time Cloud has before his body enters the lifestream. Imgine reliving the fact that you killed aerith but it wasnt you, the last thing she sees is cloud smiling before clouds reaction changes completely to horror realizing what he has done and how mentally he breaks down believingshe is really alive, and believe me its going to get intense and very awkward as he will speak as if Aerith is still alive while everyone else starts to seriously worry and grow morw conrned he will begin to push people away before Tifa finally confronts him and Sephiroth will appear to drivea wedge further revealing the truth to both Tifa and Cloud... this will be the driving force for Cloud to deliver the black materia to sephiroth. When we find cloud in Mideal and we play through his memories Tifa will be shown what Cloud remembers happening, making her realize that the real cloud was in there fighting and trying but it was truly Jenova that made him do it. This will also help Clpud cope long enough to defeat the weapons and take out sephiroth.... I think when Holy happens Cloud will return to the Edge of creation and it will be a final battle with Jenova where its Cloud Dreamweaver or something and all the characters including Genesis, Sephiroth, and Kadaj will lend cloud some strength. Kadaj being saved at the end of AC. I mean when they finally save Cloud you can have it end with Denzel and Marleen putting the bustersword in the ground and ending with a "we are your living legacy!" Denzel wearing the fusion sword and Marleen wearing the Plumerose Staff. Thats how I would round it out as a story teller. But who knows its one of many theories
The Jenova manipulation theory was one I thought of the night I finished the game. It's dark, but it could have a more dramatic payoff in part 3. Cloud won't be able to shake off Jenova's control until he accepts Aerith's death. It makes sense for his character to reject this reality as that is what he did when Zack died.
The music is what pushed me over to cry. I nearly cried when Aerith gave Cloud the white matiera and pushed, but the tone shifted quickly to tense so I didn't.
Then with the "death scene" I 100% allowed myself to be baited because to some extent i wanted it, but others i was just letting it happen and not thinking. The first hit of Aerith's theme made me feel 7yrs old again and i got emotional. Tension immediately snapped me back, then her theme against Jenohva is one the most beautiful version of that song ive heard and got me again.
While I think some streamers playing it up, but it was also very much playing with peoples emotions and a lot of us just let it happen and sat in the passenger seat. Let our feelings just happen and look back after.
Red said Aerith's name as a question more so than a statement. It isnt a complete confirmation on Red feeling Aerith's presence.
Cloud's mind hass been messed up throughout the 2 games. Cloud even said he himself afmits to Tifa about him having people inside of him. He questions whether or not he is himself or someone else. How much of Cloud are we seeing throughout the 2 games? How much is Cloud's emotions are his or someone else's? Cloud imitates Zack's battle stance next to Aerith towards the end of the last battle against Sephiroth. Sephiroth manipulates cloud throughout the 2 games. Cloud imitates Aerith's words from the dream world. The Jenova/Aerith make Cloud more and more broken. I do want to see and know more about Jenova.
Does anyone know what JENOVA remix plays at around 6:24?
Dead, Alive, Psychosis or Jenaerith! Which gets your main swing of bias currently?
tbh I think I'M going schizophrenic with how much theorycrafting I'm still consuming a month after beating the game (((QoQ)))
Alive because copium
I hope for Jenaetith because it would be more interesting...I also think a hero Sephiroth is locked at the Edge of Creation... slowly understanding his place in the whole mess of things. Maybe Omni Aerith or Advent Sephiroth put him their as a secret play or a fear of him interfering at the wrong time or at all.
All 4 plus a timeline where Tifa dies instead of Aerith. I think Aerith's a red herring. We don't really see what happens in the new Aerith lives timeline. Sephiroth could have killed Tifa instead. Combine that with Psychosis and Jenova and we can't be certain which timeline Cloud is in until the Northern Crater and that's on purpose.
I noticed a few things you might want to take into consideration: when sephiroth falls from the sky to kill Aerith and Cloud swings his sword to save her, a single white feather falls on the right sight of the screen, just like it did when Zack was saved in his timeline. Also I think Cloud really does save Aerith (in one timeline), and this is exactly what Sephiroth wants as he defies destiny and creates a new world when doing so. I don't know exactly why Sephiroth wants that, but he does say that earlier to cloud (let us defy destiny together) and he smiles when Cloud derails his sword when trying to kill Aerith. Maybe the world gets unstable when defying destiny and creating another world or something and that somehow benefits Sephiroths plan?
Anyway, I think Cloud saves Aerith in one timeline, but he glitches between this world and the orginial where she dies. I'm not really sure what to make of it, but there are moments when Aerith "dies" where there is lifestreamy things floating, but there are also moments where rainbowy things float. I do think Jenaerith, Lifestream Aerith and other timeline Aerith could all three be a thing and Cloud is glitching between them. The Aerith that sits by the lake with Cloud seems very Jenova/Sephiroth-illusion like, and also Cloud glitches right before he sees her, while she wasn't there before, not even to him. And in the end scene where Red senses Aerith, I think that is lifestream Aeriths Spirit and maybe not even the one that talks to Cloud a few moments later.
Also the Japanese version sais a few things differently than the english one: when they are on their last date, Aerith not only says it's her dream, in japanese she says it's her dreamWORLD, so I really think she deliberately created it. And when Cloud says he will kill Sephiroth in the end scene, in english Aerith answers with "promise?", but in japanese she only says something like "really?" or "for sure?" or something like that. I don't know what to make of that, but I do think it's an important difference.
Anyway, those are my remarks, maybe they are helpful for your theories :)
They all went through the portal together in Remake so they all see the same things. Since only Cloud went through, he sees differently than the others. Haven't really heard this mentioned in any videos. Cloud see the Aerith he saved. The others see the Aerith who they didn't save in time; maybe because they other cloud from the wheelchair was supposed to be the one to save her. Also, at the when *when they all fly away*, Aerith says "...Goodbye..." Why would a jenova Aerith say bye like that? I doubt it's Jenova.
15:42 I'm not sure I agree about Aerith in the "dream date" being Jenova which is what you seem to be implying? I mean come on, that was the most wholesome moment they shared in all of Rebirth lol! She sounded so sincere when she told Cloud she likes him. She hugs him, tells him to not feel guilty, tells him he needs to find himself, then gives him the white materia. Why would Jenova do that? If there's a point in the game where I'm convinced it's the real Aerith it's the dream date.
Edit: ok I think I misunderstood you but the part where she says "it's a homecoming", that's when they wake up in Aerith's dream right? It's the same Aerith that pushes Cloud in the church.
I didn't cry at Aerith's death, the first time I watched it, because my main feeling at that part of the game was confusion. But I did cry a lot at other parts of the game.
I have a question, jenova is denied access from the lifestream right, but sephiroths human so he's not and he's in their jumping around trying to get aerith. But is Jenova in the lifestream through Sephiroth, or does his descent into the lifestream strip him of all Jenova cells because of her lack of access, giving lifestream Sephiroth a completely human will again?
Also some things I think are interesting that we don't have answers for, the shadowblood queen, the gi and I think vincent were the only ones to radiate a red energy, so are all related to chaos? And at the very end Glenn/Sephiroth says to Rufus "a fathers dream, accomplished by his son", instead of him talking about Rufus and his dad I kinda thought they were speaking about Cloud and Sephiroth accomplishing their fathers dream, being Glenn and Sephiroth, and while Glenns goals are still unclear, Hojo wants the Reunion. Would love to hear your thoughts on this, great theory video pez 👍
Actually i have come to a halt on theory crafting. Listening to this vid made me realise my theories arnt even close to being that deep. In fact all of them are probably wrong. I dont know. But i seen people claim my theories as their own on other peoples channels and to be honest i dont care about it anymore, let them. I am moving on from all of it. I will leave the theory crafting to the experts. Looking forward to your vids bro keep up the good work 🔥💯
Pez if you’re in Aus and making your way to Melbourne, would love to buy you a round if you’re keen!
ahh man that woulda been cool, unfortunately im hopping of to NZ next week :O
Make sure to watch the scene with the portal again. Look what opens it for cloud…the black whispers
I've been trying to figure out if Lucrecia is a Cetra or not. If she is, then Sephiroth would be a human/cetra infused with Jenova cells. I've heard mention that Sephiroth has become so powerful he controls Jenova, but how did Jenova become such a calamity to the cosmos if a simple hybrid child with some of it's cells dominate and control it? I think Jenova is the ultimate mastermind. I know I'm probably wrong, but I want it to be true. 😂
As someone who fell into spirituality last year, I can say there is a small bit of delusion, maybe even so far as to say schizophrenia associated with it. I’m more at peace now, accepting of things that happen to me, whether they be good or bad. Death feels less relevant because it makes sense that we are simply energy, just like the lifestream concept, but at the same time, I feel more emotions now than I ever have. In fact, I cried several times during Rebirth, simply because I connect more with the artistry and meanings conveyed during the story
Now for my interpretation as to why Aerith is probably a Jenova illusion/Cloud hallucination in the end, aside from the dark tone and overall weird presentation of the ending, would be the weird gradation of the character in the last few scenes of the game. I would call it an adjustment phase.
From the moment Cloud tells Aerith to wake up, everything seems strange. She wakes up with an uncomfortable smile (at least for me) that doesn't really fit her personality. Then she apparently disappears for a while, only to reappear near Cloud after one of his glitchy moments with another strange smile on her face. The moment that strikes me the most is when Cloud calls for Tifa to come with them and we see a focus on Aerith who seems to be smiling at her grieving friend like she is having the best moment of her life. This seems to change in the last CG scene where she at least seems to have compassion for anyone who is grieving, but to me this doesn't mean that it's suddenly the "real" Aerith, but rather an illusion that is "adapting".
So let's break down some strange parts in the last CG scene. If you look at the sequence of events, Aerith is only present when Cloud is looking at the scene. You can see in the first few scenes that Aerith is nowhere to be found around the Bronco until Cloud takes his eyes off the transparent materia to look at the rest of the crew. Then Aerith seems to disappear again when Cloud's attention returns to the previous white materia about halfway through the scene. This at least confirms that the vision of Aerith we see is only there because of Cloud's observations.
Another thing to note is that this version of Aerith does not seem to be corporeal, since she does not react to the small engine explosion of the Bronco. Strangely enough, she does physically react to the Bronco taking off later, as her dress and hair sway with the wind, making her look corporeal at least for the end of the scene. In my opinion, this supports the observations that there is something planned in the scene to show that this version of Aerith is trying to make herself feel "real" at least to Cloud (or the viewer) and that there is an adaptation time for this illusion, which is already strange enough and makes me really interested in the whole Janerith theory.
Another thing I personally haven't seen talked about much is the use of the term "promise" in the ending and its meaning around Aerith's character.
How does Aerith feel about promises? If we look at the song she wrote in the game, "No Promises to Keep", she doesn't seem too keen on making or keeping promises, I quote: "Promises to keep, We'll never need.
And how do we end the game? With a promise? If that's not intentional, it's really weird writing haha
I like the "mother" comparison at the end of the vid. Do we think that Sephiroth sees Jenova as a alien monster (like we do) or rather something beautiful, or something he loved/lost at one time.
I'm following the holy materia. Remakes hex Aerith puts on destiny's portal - that Aerith (once in the portal fighting destiny) is a clone or remnant(obviously a better/more aware/real version) = empty holy throughout rebirth. The dream date is with Aerith from Remake/original - she hands the full holy to transfer to the clone or remnant in rebirth(making her memory "whole") and she dies :(. To cut down on the multiverse theory stuff. Maybe three parallels - (1) Remake/original game up to (line ends at destiny portal), (2) tornado/dream date time(ends completely when Aerith pushes Cloud and Sephiroth ends Aerith :( , (3) Rebirth (if we delete the final jenoveth cinematic w/ tiny bronco) this is a perfect point to add Advent Children as the "ending" for this single game - Advent Children Aerith is in the final battle. Next game starts from the ending cinematic - Here We Go (no promises) This is fun! Great vids!
It is the Lifestream White and Lifestream Black storyline from Kazushige Nojima here people.
I'm pretty sure Cloud only thinks that Aerith is still alive and that when we get to 'that one scene' at the Northern Crater, it'll be revealed what really happened there.
It's either this, or that Aerith is from a separate timeline and will end up sacrificing herself at the end of the third part (probably in a similar manner to what Cosmo did at the end of Sonic X), eliminating Meteor and saving the Planet, while also eliminating every instance of Aerith from the different timelines.
It's obvious that Aerith is dead. At least in a physical sense. In order to understand what's going on with Aerith and Cloud, you have to be reminded Final Fantasy is somewhat derivative of Star Wars. Obi Wan and Aerith's deaths are even similar. Both are killed in front of the protagonist, both become "stronger than you can possibly imagine" after their deaths, both can only be seen by the protagonist. It's not a hallucination as Cloud was still able to see (and be assisted by) Aerith in Advent Children. 2 years after Final Fantasy 7 takes place (she een saved his life). We know it's canon because some scenes from AC appear in the game. I have a even bigger theory that Zack Fair is a ancient as well. Seeing that Cloud can correspond with him like he can with Aerith, I think Aerith is the stronger of the two in terms of what they can do. I say this because if it's just hallucinations of people he's lost, why doesn't Cloud have any visions of his mother? His mother only appears in flashbacks and she was not an ancient. What Cloud is seeing is real, but because Sephiroth can manipulate anyone infused with Jenova cells, he can get inside of Cloud's mind. Because of the Jenova cells, Sephiroth (and even Jenova herself) is part of Cloud. That is why Sephiroth "will never be a memory". Also, Kadaj called Aerith "mother" in AC. Could Aerith be the reincarnation of Jenova?
Welp, that's about all I got for now.
34:00 as a schizophrenic, trauma is the trigger that traps one in Nightmares. It is the brain attempting to spend more resources to process that which one cannot process in the normal sleep cycle.
As for rejecting people whom callout the delusional thinking or hallucinations… everyone reacts that way when their core reality is being challenged, it’s just that when a schizophrenic is trapped in nightmares… their reality is extra fragile. Jenova (like her JW namesake Jehova), takes advantage of that fragile reality and gifts her victim with a comforting illusion of “eternal life after death.” Cloud was trying to preserve Aerith’s memory when Jenova and Sephiroth descended from above, having prior offered his “blessing” before coming to harvest Cloud’s grief and despair… stealing the carrhesis of mourning Aerith and deeply ingraining an illusion of Aerith not only being alive, but aiding Cloud in defeating Sephiroth (she repeatedly survives the iconic chest stab during that fight, hammering into Cloud that it isn’t a fatal strike), then after Cloud returns to reality… Aeirth wakes up.
That dream of Aerith’s where everyone had accepted their fate of death? I think that is specifically the version of Aerith that Jenova/Sephiroth harvested alongside all the Whispers that sustained that World
I admit it, I now think the Jenova theory is most likely, mostly because of logical reasons. There is a 3rd part of the game and we know Cloud isn't done suffering and having massive doubts and hallucinations.
Also because of that scene on Shinra 8. It would be weird in a way if it wasn't Jenova-Aerith because then Jenova didn't use her powers the whole game. Like we know Tifa wasn't an imitation, Sephiroth was just messing with Cloud. So because of that, it almost has to be Jenova at the end.
I just didn't like the theory at first because it didn't feel that sinister to me. Everyone is acting like it was super sinister and Aerith was off putting but I didn't get any of that and I rewatched the ending 4 times. If it is Jenova-Aerith, she isn't doing anything bad or wrong. She's not trying to drive a wedge between Cloud and Tifa, she's not trying to make Cloud feel bad or guilty, and she isn't trying to manipulate him in any way. She's even being wholesome and caring (for Red, Tifa and Cid). So that's part of why my brain rejects it, because the theory doesn't match what I'm seeing or feeling.
I guess there's also a difference between "it's Jenova imitating Aerith" and "Cloud is crazy / schizo / in denial". I like the latter more but Jenova-Aerith makes more sense story-wise.
Are you still doing the Ever Crisis watch party, Pez?
Yes please! I haven't followed that at all so a watch along would be more fun
let me ask you something is tifa going to save cloud from his mental state in part 3?
Didn't Audrey say that the Ultimania confirms it's Aerith in the very last (CGI) scene? Albeit it doesn't say whether it's lifestream Aerith or parallel timeline Aerith... Which makes sense to me. The Red/Tifa shot isn't just that Red senses her, it's how sad Aerith looks when she realizes how hurt they are. The very last "goodbye" shot doesn't lend itself to the theory either, not sure why Jenaerith would feel the need to maintain the charade after they'd actually left. Not that I don't think Jenova will come into play eventually, I'm sure she will, just not yet.
Pez, did Zack's timeline still exist? If it still is would he be able to come back? If Aerith wakes up it means Cloud was able to save her? In the case Cloud would not be able to wake up on that timeline. Does that mean he died along with the others? That the last scene from AC was his funeral at the church? His death and rebirth?
Pez in that intro had that Daniel Radcliffe energy 🤪
I have two distinct thoughts.
1. I think that the Aerith that you see in the "date scene", in the church and the one that meets you to face Sephiroth at the end of the game is actually the Aerith that you saved while Sephiroth was trying to assassinate her in the forgotten capital [cloud make the rainbown effect when he clash the swords], because the worlds don't share equal time, they aren't parallel and when sephiroth says "i underestimated you" it made me completely uneasy. This comment from Sephiroth makes us think that Aerith did something and used cloud [in a good way] to be able to stand out against Sephiroth and recover the "memories" that make part of the holly materia.
2. If nothing I said before is real, I also believe that there are no multiple versions of the characters, what happens with cloud and Aerith in Zack's world is that when they sleep they are transferred to these worlds, as this matches the what the NPC says in Cosmo canyon about "hopes and dreams" and so on.
I think the Carl Jung connection could be correct. Remember that Carl Jung provided the primary inspiration for Xenogears......and Xenogears was originally started as Final Fantasy 7 before its story was deemed too dark and inappropriate for a mainline Final Fantasy and it became its own project.
So looking at Jung's works could be key here.
im personaly in camp of Cloud being delulu/Jenova/Sephi, i like that dark tone. Even that part in the last cinematic when party is flying off with Bronco, ppl say that it doesnt make sense, why would she still be there when they are flying away because she will only appear near party only when Cloud is watching, well because " then i will send up smoke" -> " thanks. i will keep an eye out" its because Cloud is still watching her from Bronco in chase of smoke.
also that water burial scene, this clip basicaly summs it up better than i can >
ruclips.net/user/shortshSsDL9ACPKM
Schrödinger's Aerith is at the same time: alive, in a coma, dead, fighting Sephiroth, running away.
Yes! We need more Jenova!
Right!? Like dunk her in HARD square. She's such an underutilized villain in this trilogy so far
Who his the real Cloud? When do we see him? Sometime he showed his fragile side which is how the real Cloud is (weak and sensitive).
The ending looks more like the good side of Sephiroth acting. We never know what happened him and Aerith on the church. That Sephiroth might be the good Sephiroth. I think also Zack has a connection to the final fight. Especially after the fight with Sephiroth, Wisphers took Aerith and we see Cloud closing his eyes then wisphers shown around Zack he was panting, eyes closed then he opened his eyes and says “WE” got him.
So until now Cloud isn’t himself (a vessal) his feelings might not be his as well. As Aerith said, even if you think you have, it is not real.
We are still waiting to see his true self once Tifa manage to find him during that lifestream scene. We see the real Cloud when Tifa fell. He screamed and lost his power barely moving. She is part of his real memories so his true self shows most of the time with her. That’s the real Cloud. Other than that, he is either effected by Jenova (she is using Sephiroth because Cloud hate and scared of him), the good Sephiroth, and of course Zack.
Another theory i have. There is Jenova and then there is Sephiroth. The winged Sephiroth we see is not Sephiroth but its Jenova taking the form of Sephiroth based on Clouds memory of him. The real Sephiroth lives within Clouds conciousness in his memories.
The only reason Sephiroth keeps coming back is due to the Jenova Cells not just within Cloud but anywhere it is found. The edge of creation is within Clouds subconciouse his mind.
The mind is where worlds are created through memories. Cloud is an observer so for him to bring about the realities happening around him he has to see it take place in his mind.
Spirit energy exists everywhere and with it is the planet made and humans made. It is what is used during summons. When Cloud remembers Sephiroth, Jenova uses his memories to manifest into the world through spirit energy.
Aerith is alive within Clouds memories as is Zack. The life stream is made up of dreams and memories which is all within the human mind. But when someone dies they return to the planet becoming spirit energy.
Yet they also can exist wherever spirit energy is found. Be it the Soul of the living or the planet or the cosmos. The memories someone has of someone else is what keeps them alive or as cetra put it living in eternity.
Jenova if you see the one we battle its face and image is that of the GI. Then theres the Jenova that takes Sephiroths image and manifests itself. The reason why Jenova was in all places at once at the end battle was due to the whispers it had access to.
The white whispers exist in all time and space. Jenova used them to have access to all time and space. Jenova can manipulate peoples memories. It can alter them. Which means it can change the fate and destiny of individuals to suit its motive.
Jenova cells are a parasite they are there to kill the host. Clouds memories have been altered by Jenova which is why he sees Aerith alive when she is actually dead.
He believes her to be in another world. The worlds are not seperate from the planet, they are within the life stream which means they are within the minds of people. Dreams are in the mind and from memories are they created and brought about.
We see in dreams things based on what we percive in reality. Aerith or the memory of Aerith within Clouds mind is at risk of being tampered with by Jenova through the Jenova cells of Cloud. If his perception of Aerith is changed she will be made to manifest through jenova as winged sephiroth does.
But she will manifest with wings. As anything that has wings signifies interferance from jenova. The real enemy is jenova and it can become an end boss in aeriths form or sephiroths or anyone who has become a memory back into the life stream.
If jenova destroys then Minerva grants life. There will always be gods in the life stream. The god which creates memories dreams and hopes, Minerva and the god who destroys, erases and causes dispare, Jenova.
Cloud has to gain mastery of his memories and Tifa is the only one who has solid memories of Cloud. Just as Jenova creates false memories within Clouds mind Tifa can help find Clouds real memories.
Tifa found the real memory of what happened to her within the life stream. She saw the memories within the lifestream to discover what really happened to her on the bridge. Otherwise she would never have remembered or known.
Similarly using her memories of Cloud to bring him back and save him from the false memories created by jenova. He will remember his dialogue said to aerith and what really happened instead of the false memory created by jenova.
Tifa knows whats going on with Cloud she knows she is loosing him to the jenova memory of sephiroth. She just needs to find a way to save Cloud from that memory. The false jenova memory.
Cloud carries Zacks hopes and dreams with him its why he is living his memories. He movies and acts just like him. But at the same time he is his own person. Cloud needs to discover his own hopes and dreams and regain his own memories.
We know from the O.G he regains his menories with the help of Tifa. We know tifa is in need of direction to help Cloud, we also know its Aerith who helps Tifa in helping Cloud to direct him to his true self his true memories.
Cloud basically living zacks memories believing they are his own. He remembers things he shouldnt. Things he did not experiance. How dies he have access to these memories? It is due to the memory of zack that he has and him living within his subconciouse the mind through spirit energy just as sephiroth is.
Cloud summoned both zack and aerith to help him battle jenova sephiroth within his subconciouse. Just as there are many worlds within life stream which is created of knowledge and memories there are also many worlds within the mind of an individual.
The worlds that we see tgat have meteor destroying them, they are all worlds within the mind of cloud. Yet the mind of tifa there are no worlds that have meteor destroying them. Cloud has it only due to jenova cells. He sees the distruction of the planet. Not anyone else.
As an observer events do not become reality until they are observed by an individual. So long as Cloud has memories of sephiroth, sephiroth will be able to live on through the jenova cells of cloud and anything that has jenova cells.
Jenova is a god that manipulates/ changes memories. Minerva a god that restores/retaines memories. I am going to stop here on my theory crafting as im not to sure where i am going with all of this. I find my self circling back through the same concepts. Ok thats all i have for now.
DAMNIT PEASANT! You always throw a Moogle-wrench in my theories.
Janaerith.........by the Crystal that could actually be a thing.....I will have to ponder what this means. But it doesnt invalidate my theory....I will just have to assimilate it in some way.
Sepheroth: " she can become those you hate.. even those you love."
Cloud : "sorry , what?!"
Sepheroth: " eh... Nothing forgot I said anything".
The truth is that we are not going to know until the next game comes up...
Interestingly Pez wouldn't "Hollow" apply to the white materia as well it being hollow now, what if white and black materia somehow reflect the state Cloud is in.
ooh I like that. Aerith handing him the empty materia so that it stands as a reminder for Cloud to work on himself. To 'fill' himself again with who he is and work on himself. Strong
Whooooaaaaa….. that’s a helluva theory.
I wonder if it's Jenova disguised as Aerith
Hi Pez
yo yo yo
MAJOR SPOILER : Sephiroth that Cloud see the entire time is actually Jenova, the real sephiroth is the one trap in the edge of creation, the one thats still the sephiroth before nibleheim incident, sephiroth phyc is totally breaking down after he found out that he was a monster created by hojo, thats why jenova can take over his body, just like sephiroth/jenova take over cloud's body, in part 3 there are posibility that the real sephiroth will help cloud's party fighting the real Jenova, so Sephiroth never evil at the first place and its all Jenova doing, Jenova was the one masacre all the people in nibleheim, she is the one who wants to summon meteor and perhaps use the planet to sale the cosmos to go back to her own planet
That's also what I think I agree with you! The new ever crisis first soldier content also seems to confirm that more... He's at the edge of creation, reflecting on his past. He even has Jenova headaches like Cloud. And in rebirth we see a white feather in the beginning of the game, another one in chapter 13 when Aerith gets pushed by the whispers, and 2 more in chapter 14 when Sephiroth descends to kill her. Hero, human Sephiroth is represented by white feathers and this means he still exists.
Sephiroth took control of Jenova’s will and controlled it after Cloud killed him in Nibelheim so ff7 is all Sephiroth’s will. He is controlling Jenova and making it take his image.
In Nibel Jenova did have influence over Sephiroth but after that it’s all him. All confirmed in OG ultimania.
In the remake there is possibility of a Sephiroth redemption however OG is all him and in the lifestream he founds about the truth of his birth etc. I forgot who but pretty sure it’s either Kitase or Nomura said in an interview a while back he found it confusing that the fans feel sorry for Sephiroth because there is nothing redeeming about him.
@@insertname3919 Yes in OG it was the case. But it doesn't mean it's still like that in remake trilogy. It's fiction, and they can change it if they want to. The devs stated that the remake trilogy is it's own thing, so it could be different. Also the way ever crisis first soldier is written, plus the first chapter of rebirth, heck even crisis core, suggest that it could be different now. Nobody knows for sure and it is a possibility. OG is 27 years old, and maybe they want things to be different this time around.
@@bonni4493 absolutely could be changed and would love Jenova as final villain as never understood why a human hybrid would have the power to overthrow a ancient alien being.
Was just making comments as it’s baffling the OG is a old game and people still argue that it wasn’t Sephiroth but Jenova controlling him even though it’s been stated in OG that’s not the case.