A Peasant's BLIND take on the Rebirth ENDING... | Final Fantasy Remake story review & thoughts
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- Опубликовано: 25 май 2024
- Damn that final fantasy 7 rebirth ending went HAAARRDDD!! I was strapped and peppered for some wildness in the end of Remake part 2. But this was absolutely ludicrous. The fate of Aerith. The goals of Sephiroth. The mental state of Cloud. The stamps. Zack blasting off. This was a truly unhinged ending. Please hold in mind this is my blind, 12 hour in reaction to the ending with zero influence by the internet or the review out there. My cook time is short and my journey long. Can't wait to keep exploring further from here and deliver all the theory juice that this ending has opened up in Final Fantasy Remake trilogy. Feel free to drop as much Rebirth lore info in the comments and give your reaction to the ending. I LOVED THIS ENDING!!
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To reiterate, this was my VERY early initial blind cook after finishing the game. With zero internet influence or insight. Even since recording this with Bri, about 10X thoughts and ideas have swamped my mind on this ending. I can't wait to go deeper and craft some epic theory vids with/for you guys. Feel free to blow this comment up with all your thoughts and ideas!!
You should check out the final chapter of The First Soldier in Ever Crisis, it shows us a lot more about Sephiroth and his motivations
@@ArkxineThis!!!
Defo get a thought video on the evercrisis sephiroth chapter man. It's so important to the remake project, I'm actually annoyed its exclusive to evercrisis, especially since its about "Edge of creation" seohiroth. Assuming he's been thinking about his past AFTER the events of ff7 remake, some of the scenes should have been partially included in rebirth
Having Peasant and MaxDood discussing this would be a dream come true.
Nomura in an interview after advent children talked about how Cloud wasn't actually seeing Aerith and Zack in AC, but that they "lived on" in consciousness and he wanted to show that.
If you look at the imagery from AC, the all-white scenes are literally exactly the same where Zack and Aerith are shown. I think they're trying to convey that Aerith and Zack are living on in Cloud's consciousness. When Zack is in the all-white scene, he finds a motionless Cloud that can't see him. When he touches him, what happens? He gets transported into an all-black area with Cloud in a battle with Sephiroth. I think this is trying to convey that Cloud's consciousness is corrupted by Sephiroth, and Zack is trying to break through to Cloud, and the battle they fight is actually metaphorical, but for Sephiroth, it is partially real.
Likewise, when Aerith appears... she comes out of an all-white portal. It glows white as she steps. Again, signifying that she's trying to break through. It's why she says, "I saw what you did back there, thank you." Cloud parries the blade only in his mind. Aerith within his consciousness can see that and thanks him. I think the Aerith we see after the battles, that the party can't see, there are actually two. When she's sitting next to Cloud, if you listen closely the music and tone changes much more ominously, but subtle. I think that's Sephiroth/Jenova. I think there is also an actual lifestream Aerith presence looking over the party, but not the one that interacts with Cloud. Only the one that Red sensed. Also, the Aerith that interacts with Cloud is a little weird. She has a pause before she turns around and says, "You promise?" as if it's Sephiroth or Jenova trying to think what she would say. It was very odd and ominous timing, but I think it was another reason that led me to believe that the one Cloud is interacting with isn't real. It's no coincidence that right near that they showed that Sephiroth/Jenova was imitating Glen the entire time. Seems to be their way of giving us a little nudge towards what's happening.
This was my thinking after beating it. I've read a lot of theories, and this is the only one that makes sense for me, especially considering the context Nomura has given on AC and the fact they used the same imagery. Seems obvious, honestly.
Great take on it. And I agree 100% about zack. I feel like him and biggs were just spirits lost in a purgatory like state. They are both hyper aware of the fact they died. They are whispers lost between black and white. They were both meant to die together at the reactor. It was a genesis and angeal moment. Biggs accepted his fate and returned to the lifestream. But zack, facing 100 soldiers, the same death he was destined to have, couldn't accept his fate. I think he knew he had to be there for cloud. It also explains why aerith didn't show up to help zakc and cloud, and also say hi to zack in the process 😂
Only thing I disagree with, is the aerith/jenova thing. When we hear that opening theme at the lake, I think its referring to the opening of OG, same thing happens, the gren glow of mako on aeriths face while we hear those 3 notes playing. It's just confirming that we are seeing omni aerith here, and shes not just in clouds head.
She's just keeping tabs on him, making sure he doesn't completely lose it. When cloud asks if she will be OK getting back, she says "it's like a second home," referring to the forgotten capital. Shes telling him shes gonna head back and finish her prayer, and that him and the gang should go and finish the mission. Don't worry about her, she'll be OK, and she'll catch up later... I don't think it's jenova at all, even red can sense her. She's just making sure cloud doesn't end up like Roche 😢
Also, something I noticed at the end scene. When Cloud looks at the white materia, it reflects a bunch of clouds that stop you and Cloud from seeing Clouds reflection clearly. This symbolizes how foggy his mental state is right now. Later, Barret tells Cloud that he needs to be ready and able to carry the parties burdens (as leader). Cid immediately says "No heavy burdens, we are at capacity as it is!". A clever way for the devs to say that Cloud is about to break.
I think a lot of this is due to Jenova being far more of a literal parasite of the entire universe than we thought before. Sephiroth is planning the 1 final reunion, which at the very least will truly gather all of his "mother" one place. Idk if he plans to betray her or join her or something else, but at the very least, this ones for all the marbles regardless. And we also know HOJO is somehow gonna get some skin in the game and need to be permakilled- maybe he might even activate the weapon from dirge early.
Yes, I think they are somewhat expanding Jenova's role in all this. In the original and compilation, JENOVA sort of taking the back seat, and Sephiroth take the spot. Even to the point that in multiple polling Sephiroth took top villain spot, but Jenova was not even in the poll. I think with this expansion and more detailed definition of Jenova's role, this might change.
no pez i love your takes on these stories. thank you guys for sharing the journey with us
So gotta ask you guys the big question. Aerith: dead or not dead? Is she a shcrodingers Aerith or is it far more complex than an either/or in your mind?
It's terrifyingly ballsy that they've done this to video games most iconic death. Do we think this is gonna pay off and take the story to somewhere greater in part 3?
She's currently a Schrodinger's Cat for me.
I think Aerith is dead, but I think there are two Aeriths. One that stayed, a real "ghost", and another that will reappear to Cloud as a coping mechanism at certain points, like in a hallucination form. He will still believe she is alive. He could even get suspicious about her existence, like wanting to see the "real Aerith" the same way that Aerith wanted to see the real Cloud. He could go snowboarding with her, which would be incredibly haunting and sad. I don't fully believe this will all happen because of the ending of Rebirth looked quite final from Aerith's part, that goodbye said a lot, so it could lose some weight, but I definitely believe that would be interesting, to keep the coping hallucination a thing. That doesn't have to be used a lot, just in some pivotal moments so Cloud can have more confusion and a sense of paranoia. Then finally at the Northern Crater Sephiroth shows Cloud what's happening with Zack and Aerith, so Cloud's mind can break fully. In part 3 we also have to start acknowlegding how the "white space" will be integrated in the story and how Cloud can pop in and off like in Advent Children.
Shes most definitely dead. Omni Aerith too. But we won't know that until it becomes clear that clouds mind has made the phantom aerith at the end in denial. The entire thing is leafing toward a more powerful lifestream sequence for Cloud.
Aerith is dead, Omni Aerith wants to be dead to be in the lifestream
She's dead but in the lifestream for sure
Just an FYI when you open yourself up to social media again...the Stamp that a lot of people thinks is a Shih Tzu is actually a long-haired Chihuahua according to the devs. 😂
What i am personally at with the ending is : Aerith is dead. Im not sure what's her deal with showing herself to Cloud at the end, maybe to keep him going without completely losing his mind, even a theory about her being Jenova impersonation crossed my mind, because at the end she contradicts everything she said in the temple/sleeping forest.
On one hand she says she will handle Sephiroth and then looks happy when Cloud says he will. That's just weird. Aerith wanted Cloud to find himself and focus on himself not on chasing Sephy.
Also Cloud being able to see the rift in the sky is because he received Sephiroths "blessing" & whatever more that entails.
ALSO looking at Ever Crisis and Sephiroth story there - he Had the mind glitch too - which indicates those glitches are Jenova induced. That puts an interesting twist on it.
I think I’ve settled into an interpretation close to Bri’s. Aerith is probably “around” in the Lifestream and Cloud and Nanaki are sensing her, but everything she seems to be telling Cloud at the end seems to be a little too conveniently helping Sephiroth/propping up Cloud’s delusions. And I think we the player will see her just as we saw Zack, but Cloud may see her very little, if at all (outside of dreams or delusions).
I think one possibility is that the Lifestream grants powerful wishes a kind of tangible but temporary reality, and Aerith’s spirit could be enduring in such a reality that Cloud created. But all such worlds seem doomed to collapse eventually…
Rufus Shinra never refuses Cloud Strife the title of former/ex SOLDIER. In the original he didn't deny him, in Advent Children he doesn't deny him and even in the remake trilogy Rufus never corrects Cloud that he was not a soldier. Rufus must have the paper work to know exactly what is going on!?
I feel he hints at it in Junon when he says something like "I've read your file and it's very enlightening." He would definitely know he wasn't SOLIDER, I'm not sure if he would know about the experiments hojo did on Cloud. Hojo doesn't seem like the type to report his experiments.
55:12 This is actually a really great prediction by Bri, it makes sense that they would utilize the empty white material this way.
I’m glad you took your time with this game, please keep on with RUclips and streaming dude we love your content
i have been waiting to finally hear ur goated theorys man lets goo!!
Holy f**k balls that ending went wild. Gotta say I love it though. Just scared of Dr Cloud & the multiverse of madness becoming too literal
Are you planning to read the translated Rebirth Ultimania. It does answer some of your questions. Also Ever Crisis latest chapter tease something about Sephiroth.
I won't be surprised if that's the case.
If I'm being honest, this multiverse storyline with FF7R would've been better suited to FF8 or even FF1 since those games directly deal with time/dimensional manipulation in some form or another.
FF7 isn't about time/dimensional manipulation though, it's about corporate greed and environmentalism.
Sephy's all about getting you to question what's real and what's fake but what's the endgame in a fake multiverse?
I believe that on the OG the snap for cloud was the moment he learned he was not a real SOLDIER. For this one he will learn he was not a SOLDIER and Also learn that Aerith died...he will go bananas
Devs already confirmed they are not going to do marvel style multiverse.
I'm pretty sure Aerith didn't say "it's a homecoming", she said "you could call it a second home". Similar but it wasn't an exact quote from Sephiroth. Unless you guys were talking about another moment I don't remember.
That also was a parallel to her resolution scene in the first game when she was still at the Shinra Tower. Cloud asked her if she was ok and she said "it's like a second home" trying to pretend it wasn't so bad
Yeah I don't think it was clear in our conversation so easy to not get what I was talking about. We were just kinda bouncing off each other. But I was referring to the beginning of Aerith's dream sequence when she refers to what they're experiencing as a homecoming 😊
I believe, with all the Sephiroth battles/confrontations, he will not be the villain we face in part three's end. Instead, it will be Jenova. The two past games have really been giving more attention to Jenova, including the story in Ever Crisis.
Great discussion, I think you two are on the right track. There are several good theorizing podcasts around with slightly different interpretations but very similar to what you two have been saying.
There's a lot going on in the story but I personally think that the Remake project just heavily emphasizes more on Cloud's struggle (inner and also outer struggle) as opposed to the OG. That is why some things are presented differently.
Regarding the multiverse timeline shenanigans I agree with you, it all depends on the execution of it all although I'm viewing it more like 'FFX dreamlike' worlds instead of actual timelines like in the MCU. Even though in the end it doesn't matter how it's called. Looking forward to seeing more theory videos!
I didn't cry at Aerith's death. I didn't cry at her OG death either. But it's crazy bc i was in two different frames of mind. The OG doesn't really paint the characters in a proper light so i didn't feel like i knew Aerith enough to get emotional. In Rebirth though, they pretty much take the emotional aspect of that scene away when Seph shows Cloud the multiverse. It goes with what you guys were saying about Cloud being aware of the multiverse so he figures there's another Aerith out there somewhere so emotional weight is gone. The devs put the player in Cloud's mindset, difference is Cloud is coming across as care-free and some players are pretty salty over it. Not me though, I'm beyond intrigued by all this!
Small rant about Rebirth: Personally I'm a bit angry at how little they changed lol. I'm not saying I wanted Aerith to be saved, but I was expecting a lot more change than what we got. In the ending of Remake you kill the Arbiter of Fate, and before the credits roll they clearly say "The Unknown Journey Will Continue". Well turns out the journey was known so that was false advertising lmao! See what I mean, I loved Rebirth but there's this part of me that was so down for a new adventure. But I know it was perhaps too daunting to come up with something new and exciting that would leave people satisfied.
If you remember in Remake, there were all these hints about Cloud and the crew having knowledge of future events, they were hinting at them being aware of stuff. And to me it feels like this wasn't explored much in Rebirth. Cloud no longer had ANY vision of future events while in Remake he saw Aerith's death. We even saw hints that Tifa had knowledge she wasn't supposed to have. All that intrigue was absent.
We know Tifa and Aerith were talking about a lot of things behind Cloud's back but we never got any details about what they were saying. They're probably gonna go over all that in part 3 but to me it just felt like they didn't give us enough there. I wanted to see Tifa and Aerith talking and not just about cute boys.
In Remake, Aerith and Sephiroth seemed like they knew everything. I believed like many that Remake Sephiroth was basically Sephiroth from the future going back to the past via the lifestream to change things around. And if that's the case, logically he wouldn't just repeat the same mistakes. That's when I started thinking that killing Aerith was maybe a mistake in Sephiroth's mind. Because Cloud never forgives Sephiroth because of that one action but WE KNOW Sephiroth wants Cloud to join him. How is he going to join Sephiroth if Sephiroth kills Aerith? So I started thinking about why Zack is still around and how that could be part of Sephiroth's plan. I thought for sure Sephiroth brought Zack back into the picture to make Cloud jealous. Instead of killing Aerith, he would make Cloud witness the reunion of Aerith and Zack. And maybe Sephiroth would even make Cloud believe that Tifa is in love with Zack too. And that jealousy could be used to make Cloud join the dark side and become a loveless maidenless incel LOL. See I had this whole theory in my head and now I'm like: ok I was wrong but like, wtf was the point of X, Y and Z then? Sephiroth wants to "defy Destiny together with Cloud" and he's going to do that by repeating everything he already did in og? How does that make sense! I thought Sephiroth was against Fate but he didn't seem to try hard enough to change it.
I hope I'm not coming out as a hater because I still really love this game haha. Just wanted to get that off my chess. :)
I mean they didn't even change that much in Remake either. It was mainly just the ending portion, which is similar to Rebirth being a bit different at the end. It's the fans who lose their mind over the most slight changes or insulting Nomura out of nowhere.
@rubrumsouls Well yeah, Remake was 90% similar to og because of plot ghosts. The "Weapon of Destiny" is supposed to be dead though, that was what was sold to us, the idea of "boundless terrifying freedom" that Aerith was so afraid of. But there was no such thing because plot ghosts are still here in Rebirth even though Sephiroth absorbed them and the Arbiter / Weapon is dead. You can try to justify it but to me it just feels like the Remake ending was a lie. It got people hyped or angry but in the end it didn't truly
matter. There was no altering of fates, no different outcomes.
Of course there's still a slight chance that part 3 does big changes. But to me Rebirth tells me Square is too afraid to disappoint purists. So like Bri I expect mostly the same thing as the original but with a bunch of red herrings and fan service haha.
@vulcanh254 That is players reading into it, Aerith has always been scared of outside of Midgar even in Crisis Core, people who make these insane theories are always wrong, the devs have even said that players go overboard
@rubrumsouls I disagree. When Aerith speaks of boundless terrifying freedom she is not talking about outside of Midgar but about the portal that Sephiroth created. She says very clearly "we won't only change the future but also change ourselves (by going through this)." It cannot be more obvious what she is referring to and it's definitely not her fear of "outside of midgar".
When she says she misses the steel sky that's not the same thing. Although you can interpret the steel sky as a metaphor for the rails of destiny.
I agree with you. I was expecting this game (Rebirth) to be like 70% faithful to the original game. I held that notion of defeating fate quite close to my heart.
I kept waiting for it be off the rails and truly only four moments gave that feeling, Cloud nearly drowning after the big Snake boss, Tifa in the Livestream so early, Aerith's date with Cloud and lastly the ending and Aerith's mysterious situation.
The muted lines will be happening in part 3 when cloud gets hit by reality and we will also get the lake scene when they let her go in water, basically the part they cut in here to show us how cloud is "living" things and making up his own reality
Aerith final weapon and her last limit break weren't in Rebirth
Was waiting for this
Pez take on the empty white materia filling up after cloud life stream scene is actually an insanely good take that makes a lot of sense and hope they do that in part 3
You mean Bri's
In my opinion, as someone who heavily disliked the presentation of the finale, I have come to terms with an interpretation that's satisfactory for me.
To start in the dying world, I think it is a world that Aerith (prime) made in order to protect souls that were disrupted by the destruction of the Arbiter of Fate, and also a place for her to hide the True White Materia and herself from Sephiroth who has been deliberately going into these worlds to harvest souls for himself. I think this is because the Gi and Jenova cannot truly perceive worlds as they're more a construct of the planet, and the shrines and the latent J/S cells are used as anchor points to find these worlds and invade them.
In keeping with that, I think the True White Materia and True Black Materia have the original powers to create/alter worlds and destroy them in keeping with the planet, and the planet naturally employs them for this purpose, hence why they exist between worlds with keys in each of the spawned worlds to channel enough power through in order to maintain/end them.
The Gi by being outside the worlds could only comprehend the True Black Materia, and when they captured it, they corrupted its purpose to be able to destroy portions or all of the planet itself, such that they can segment themselves out and eradicate themselves.
Anyways, when Aerith prime pulls Cloud into the dying world, Sephiroth is finally able to locate her, and prepares to destroy her in the lifestream and seize the True White Materia. However, she instead entrusts it to Cloud, who when returning to his world, is able to transfer it over to the Aerith of his world, who gives him the Sub White Materia in preparation for her plan. At this time, Sephiroth has removed Aerith Prime from the lifestream, and has no reason to fear the current Aerith, so long as she fails to channel the True White Materia.
My perspective is Sephiroth made the call that with the True Black Materia and no will in the lifestream capable of opposing him, Aerith is better served alive, so while he plays fates part and attacks her, he allows Cloud to intercept his blade to spare her, and keep her from returning to the lifestream. However, at this point, Aerith uses the True White Materia to segment the world into two parallel lines, the one Sephiroth wanted in a temporary world, and the true world being where she died. This is why he starts laughing maniacally, because he's genuinely surprised she would opt for death in order to oppose him. Since Cloud is holding the White Materia Key, he is able to perceive both parallel worlds simultaneously. The dead Aerith is able to manifest as Aerith Prime within the lifestream and help defeat Sephiroth, preventing him from seizing control of all the nearby worlds using the Jenova cells.
Aerith, now in the living world by herself with only Cloud able to observe it, since it's essentially an overlapping world, is able to channel Holy unopposed by Sephiroth, although in a contest between Holy and Meteor, the damage to the planet would still be catastrophic unless Sephiroth is defeated first. Sephiroth cannot find this world easily because Cloud is only seeing it through the White Materia Key, so he entrusts Cloud with the True Black Materia, knowing he will be able to reclaim it during the Jenova Reunion, in hopes of inducing Cloud to destroy Aerith's sub world himself and expose her in the lifestream again. Until that point, the stalemate between the White Whispers and Weapons with the Black Whispers continues.
With Aerith's line about the sky at the end of Remake plus all the dream logic shenanigans and "sky" rift focusing of Rebirth, more than ever do I feel the ReTri project has been "taking place" in the Lifestream and more specifically we've been "within" OG Cloud's psyche during his final moments of death.
Final part: Final Fantasy 7 Reawakens
"It's time to wake up... Cloud...."
The drama of human consciousness (psychology, biology, history, etc.) and all the conflicts that occur within all of us as each of those diverse systems try to work together in order to make "us", birth "us", and ultimately allow "us" to awaken everyday from sleep without input from our will is the foundation of FF lore. We, those beings of "energy" generated by a system of nerves firing in various synchronous ways, are THE Final Fantasy and Cloud is the most meta FF character to represent that. We are the story of our bodies.
And capital D, Death, is our Fate. That is our burden of knowledge for being human. But what will we do with it?
Let's not forget Marlene is still out there with the sleeping Aerith and Cloud and another white materia. And also the 7 seconds thing. Those would come around in part 3.
And MOST importantly sephi wants to lessen cloud's mothers death, the one thing he'll never forgive sephiroth for
Don’t forget what she told cloud the forgotten Forest. That she will handle Sephiroth and for him to work on himself. At the end of the game cloud said he will handle Sephiroth and ‘Aerith’ Said you promise. This is why I think the Aerith that Cloud sees is Jenova.
The way I've interpreted it after marinating for a couple of months is that; Aerith died to save the world. She's figured out her part to play in this, using the powers of the Cetra. Both Omni Aerith & Omni Seph/Genova are in Clouds head manipulating his actions, pushing and pulling him like the classic guardian Angel & Devil on his shoulders trying to sway him for good or bad.
Cloud thinks he saved Aerith, and Seph is leaning into this, and manipulating Cloud to try and make him really snap fir part 3, meanwhile Aerith is trying to reassure Cloud and guide him and the party to save to world.
Hopefuly they keep it real, and not go down the MCU route! 🤞
Really fun conversation and I'm glad you shared your initial take, brings me back to my first reaction upon finishing the game too.
I was also mostly confused and overwhelmed by all the new stuff in the ending that I didn't feel sad about Aerith's death (I saw fans who cried though and I'm glad they got that experience). Part of me was a bit annoyed because OG Aerith's death scene was such a beautiful tragic moment and it felt like they messed up that chance to pay homage to it.
But thinking about it after, I think it was a conscious choice because while it was a funeral in the OG, in Rebirth it is about far different things. It's a plot twist, reveal of the multiple timelines, Sephiroth vs Aerith 5D chess shenanigans and more. It's a mystery now! Knowing their intent, in hindsight, if SE had drawn out a long sad funeral scene only to launch this twist on us, most people would have probably just felt emotionally manipulated and cheated.
Instead, they were upfront in going balls-to-the-walls crazy reveal from the getgo. They didn't try to copy the OG death scene slavishly because tbh, it's unlikely to have created the same intensity of emotions as the OG.
It WAS messy and meant to be (it's both a conclusion but also a setup for part 3), but for that self-awareness, I'm glad SE took a chance with this Aerith death sequence.
I want Zack to survive and return to Gongaga
I dont know how far you've dug into dev interviews at this point yet or if you've talked about any if these points cuz im not quite at the end of this here Pez..... but one thing to keep in mind is what I believe Nojima(anyone correct me if im wrong on any of this plz) said in a few of them over the past couple months after the release of the game.....He said he'd like to give the characters a happy ending if he can as a send off because he will no longer be working on FF7 after the third game. He added there'd be some restrictions on "how happy" we're actually gonna get here also due to considering the other staff members input, but that he'd at least like to make the attempt.
I take that as them considering Advent Children as an unhappy ending. As per people saying "it has to stay the same so it can lead to advent children anyways tho!"-they only said it would "link up" to advent children which i think could be a twisty way of them to say they would pay homage to it in the game, not have it be a result of what happens at the end after them.
There should be some finality in the end of sephiroth in the 3rd game......if the story just leads up to advent children-he'd still technically be a threat and it could just continue with him over and over again in a sense. So they would literally HAVE to have it end differently to hold that up.
I think there was one with Nomura also saying that Nojima pitched a very specific idea/event for the 3rd game to him that "did not happen in the OG", and that it was kind of off the wall. Nomura said he thought the whole process of him figuring out a way to implement the idea into the story would be challenging and he wasnt sure how to approach ot or something... So theres that as well and who knows what that could even mean
I feel if they really wanted the whole game to stay the same as OG they shouldn't have implemented the whole theme of "defying destiny" into the game and just constantly shoving it in our faces. I wouldve been fine with a one for one, but they've already tweaked so much now i can't help be possibly be disappointed if we dont get something happier than Advent Children as an end result of part 3.
All i know is 3 years is gonna feel like an eternity 😭
AFAIK the strange idea that was difficult to implement was proposed by Kitase to Nomura. So whatever it is may come from outside Nojima's style and continuity. Note that Nojima never worked on Before Crisis or Dirge of Cerebus in the Compilation.
@@Ranben. You're probably right, I couldn't remember who proposed what to who for that last one. Thanks for making it correct lol 👍🏻
GG man. It is truly an epic game. Well exceeded my expectations. The final game is going to be wild.
Pez, finish the Mog House miniquest. You won't regret it :)
Can confirm, I mostly dislike the mini games but this one's ending was so worth it 😂
There’s a whole host of things for you to have a good look at. One thing I will say. Cloud’s psyche is definitely broken/breaking. I think your first impression on that is correct. Something to pay attention to is the limit breaks at the start of the Jenova fight. Everyone has a full gauge apart from cloud. Because he’s delusional at this stage. Sephiroth also said that line “you’ll never see the truth with such clouded eyes.” I think it’s a combination of aerith trying to reassure him from the life stream, but again he’s also in complete denial.
Have fun dude, there’s so much shit to unwrap in that ending. Enjoy.
lol that’ll teach me for commenting 10-15 minutes in to the video. You guys mentioned this afterwards 🤣
Personally I didn't see it like that at all. To me Cloud is calm, serene and at peace. (no limit break because he isn't angry or sad, he HAS accepted her death as something inevitable and as maybe something that Aerith actually wants).
After Aerith dies, she tells him it's ok and reassures Cloud, then we see Cloud stops crying and starts smiling at her and even says "don't worry, I got this" showing a newfound confidence. Why would Jenova try to reassure Cloud like that? What changed from og is that date they had in Aerith's dream world where Aerith gave her white materia to Cloud and she told him to not feel guilty about what happens. That doesn't happen in og so in og Cloud doesn't accept Aerith's death but in Rebirth he does. Maybe this peace of mind comes from the white materia.
I'm not even sure why people think Cloud is just crazy and hallucinating, especially when we know how the multiverse works and what happened to Zack. The game keeps trying to show us that Zack's spirit lives on and can be reincarnated / travel between worlds even after death. But now for Aerith you're saying she's only in Cloud's head? I think the fight with Sephiroth debunks this theory because that's actually Aerith on your side fighting Sephiroth. She's dead but she's actually there the same way Zack and Cloud were together for a brief moment. It wouldn't make sense if it was all just in Cloud's head or if Jenova was fighting by your side lol.
I just don't buy the idea that Cloud is insane. I mean obviously he is / was but I believe the "date" with Aerith, the white materia and the knowledge he gained in the lifestream / edge of creation changed him. I think he "found himself".
I dont think its a multiverse and it WILL NOT go through some stupid MCU shenanigans where there's Barista Cloud or True First Soldier Cloud, etc. We've learned that across each different reality, there are a lot of similarities between these characters and their alternate selves.
Zack's memories in the terrier reality are still the same, Biggs also has memories of Cloud being a badass from the primeline. These realities are like scattered fragments that eventually fade off and die but a lot of it is very similar. I believe that these branching worlds are all part of a single planet, a singular lifestream.
So personal theory here, I don t think the aerith that we see in the final cgi cutscene is actually aerith, I think it’s jenova/sepiroth mimiking clouds memorys and image of aerith. Remember how sephiroth or jenova or both were able to emulate clouds’s mom a words back to him in the first game ? When seph appeared before cloud in a alleyway in the second chapter of remake? Seph said run cloud, run away, you have to leave, you have to live. That was seph talking clouds mom s words and throwing them back at cloud. How ? Well jenova/seph can attain clouds memorys of the final words that his mom said ( I’m assuming in the actual order of events when cloud was a grunt and probably had a final interaction with his mom or smth). So in the same way, jenova/seph took what cloud thinks of aerith and it spawned a fake aerith that cloud thinks it’s 100 alive and it’s her. First of all the line that she says “then I’ll send up smoke”, that could just be comic relief but I think that’s jenova researching past events and memorys of cloud and took those words bc it already happened before, so that it would put clouds mind at ease bc it’s aerith that says that. And then the other thing is “fake aerith also says “annnnd if I say I wasn t??” That’s the same thing, it’s jenova or seph searching for clouds memorys of what makes aerith aerith and copying what she said so that cloud believes it’s actually her. I’m tired typing this omg
Don't forget to also watch the latest story in Ever Crisis where we see Sephiroth in the Edge of Creation and more story about him and Glenn.
My thinking is, that empty materia might be used on Sephiroth, what is materia? Memory, but this one is empty so you can fill it with it. What is Sephiroth and reason he is still alive? Memory, till Cloud remembers him, he will stay alive. So they will remove Clouds memory of Sephiroth into that empty materia and he will die.
This is great. Congratulation! Now you guys can join the discussion.
On the last point about the permanency of death, I agree that was a huge theme in the OG but that 7R is turning that around. In Cosmo Canyon, NPCs talk about the Lifestream being another means of being "alive" in a way that the OG never went (something about memories or hopes in the Lifestream also being a way of being "alive"). Which makes me think it's likely that SE will ride the idea that as a way of "keeping" Aerith alive but also not physically so.
The lifestream is where all souls originate and return. It's a homecoming.
It is not a multiverse. They've already kinda confirmed it in one of their statements. They said it's similar to parallel worlds but it's not parallel worlds. It's more like pocket dimensions or spiritual hubs or purgatory.
its not pararel worlds in the sense that everything is pararel, its another worlds but its a real worlds its not a pocket dimenstion or spiritual hub, its a real world, its just not a pararel worlds that what its mean in the ultimania interview that is not a pararel world, but it is a real worlds that is confirm in ultimania at least in japanese one, the translation is bias trough people who still want to believe that zack is in purgotory, or spiritual worlds but ITS NOT!!! zack really alive!!!
Did anyone else get KH3d vibes with the Sleeping Worlds being made real, the Black Whispers acting as Nightmares devouring those dying dreams, the White Whispers acting as Spirits protecting the World Order, etc.
I feel like the next game is gonna be called Final Fantasy 7 Revival
I think the only person I've seen cry at the ending of Rebirth who has played the OG was Runebee. Everyone else I've seen that has cried was a blind playthrough.
I cried
Do you think they'll go the Life is Strsnge route for pt 3 and make it have multiple endings?
I'd like that option but I'm unsure Square would actually do that. They'd probably want players to know definitely what occurred.
Now for dialogue moments that don't impact the main story, still give us multiple choices. I appreciated those moments in Rebirth and Remake.
Damn now that youve beaten the game, its crazy to look back on some of your theory's and see some of them turn out to be true. There was a few times where i even said "damn this lines up with what pez said 19 momths ago" 😂😂 there was so many times during the streams where you were asking hypothetical questions and i was like "i want to answer them sooo bad" haha
So what do you think man, how far off do you think you were? And how deep into theory crafting are you gonna get for part 3. Im past balls deep in it already, and i cant get enough of it. Square have created a masterpiece here, the story and ending were genius! Such a rollercoaster. Cant wait to see what kind of theorys you come up with man. Its only the start 😂😂
Haven't watched the full video yet but I'm surprised to see that you and I both think cloud created a world (or timeline) where he saved aerith, much like what happened to Zack. It's not a possibility I heard a lot of content creator discuss. To further add to this, I'll tell you one theory my brother and I came up with. The reunion at the northern crater will consist of a fusion of all the worlds and their memories. To prevent omni-aerith to be there once the fusion will have occurred, Sephiroth is hunting her down in every newborn world, (hence the line "so, that's where you've been hiding). However, what sephiroth didn't account for was Cloud saving her, thus creating a world where omni-aerith can keep existing, (hence the line "I saw what you did back there, thank you.) So, what will happen in part 3? Once the reunion happens and the worlds merge, Zack will (hopefully) join the party, whereas Aerith could still be present as a spirit. Is this a fever dream? Possibly. But it was fun thinking about it.
at the end aerith doesnt say its a homecoming she says its almost like a second home. i think she was talking about the life stream because she is a cetra.
no she was refering to forgetten capital as her 2nd home because its cetra's home
@@EiRaiden-tz7xl lets just agree to disagree because in my head how can a place you have never been to be like your second home. plus there are so much more evidence that supports the lifestream theory
yeah pez do you think the next part will go into advent children timeline and it'll be retold differently?
According to Rebirth Ultimania for Aerith date in final chapter,
there is no Zack, Marlene or her mom in the world.
hmmm.. perhaps the entire story is a battle between aerith and sephiroth? like 12 d chess ... lol
Did the exchange of the white materia and the empty materia happened in a different world/timeline?
I can't in good conscience trust ending Aerith. Not after Sephiroth said
"They say she’s a monster. That she can peer inside you, into the very depths of your soul. That she can become those you hate. Those you fear. Those you love, and they call her Jenova."
i don't trust any dead when Jenova can steal the faces of the dead lol
Part 3 final fight will be shirtless Sephiroth against shirtless Cloud and shirtless Zack
It's definitely worth looking up the translations that Audrey did of parts of the Rebirth Ultimania. It clarifies a lot of things that will help your theorising if you want to do that before watching other content creators cook 👍🏻
@FinalFantasyPeasant ~thanks for the speak the two of you~
But, one only question nonetheless: If you did not feel the pain, did not emotionally carry on Aerith's dead, it is a kind of behave as if she really was not killed, if it is so that you did not experienced it as that. This, in respect to your impression, at least.
So, that is an interesting point to start with doubting about your Aerith's death statements.
There is the gap between your impressions, and your cognition around same happening.
Seems a clear contradiction. Do not want to invalidate anything, just to stress the point.
You explain that this issue is a question of being annoyed by the film drive and the storytelling.
But, it seems to me pretty clear that it is a question of grounding hard enough the aknowledgments regarding the peak scene in game, if not in game's history.
Maybe that is what Jenova, masked in Sephiroth, was meaning by that which you cannot see under "such clouded eyes"... . For the record ;)
P.S. I don't think she was killed at first, so the Planet did record it, generated new life from that memory and ipso facto creates a world according to that. It is the plane that Cloud is able to see, and he konws he is right.
Of course, Jenova, which was impressed by Cloud deflecting the fatal blow-, then twisted reality profiting from its position, but it was too late and now the play is decided in between this gap. Sephirot got pissed by this, Cloud's heart went light through the crucial stretch before the White Altar moment and... that's what he is recognising to Aerith at the renoved purified Edge of Creation.
There is a lot to sustain here, and a lot more to point out that differs subtly from OG despite there is a global effect of deepness and 4D modelimg here in remaking the masterpiece.
Frankly I don't think the multiverse business/timelines are exactly what we think they are. This might be intentional confusion and misdirection. There are a few things term wise and more that give me the idea that these 'worlds' (keep in mind the phrasing) are something close to simulations and what if projections as opposed to actual happenings and timeline threads. How can a singular planet be responsible for the TIMELINE of all of it's surrounding existence? What I really want to know is if the Gi are present. They make it plain that they exist as they are because they aren't part of the planet's lifestream composition, so they can't properly die and be part of the life cycle, so are they in any way part of the alternate worlds? To what capacity?
The other thing to consider is Sephiroth's ability to just strut around freely. In the main story, the only way he ever seems to interact with anyone is one of these ways: in Cloud's mind, physically 'present' by way using cloaked dudes, and in the lifestream itself. As far as you can tell in the Aerith date sequence, Sephiroth almost seems to be freely present scanning through these worlds to see where Aerith is and what she's up to. It makes me think of how Sephiroth tries to ambush Tifa during the lifestream memory sequence - he's unmistakeably there and unhindered. Meanwhile in the main story he seems only able to goad, taunt, and manipulate, yet never directly fight outside of some mass convergence of whispers or some other plane, always siccing Jenova on them instead.
Maybe I'm looking at the wrong details, but sometimes I feel like we focus too much on the super obvious details they throw in our faces, and not enough on the subtle ones like terminology and other smaller bits, like why Aerith would be able to only feel Zack 'touch' her as she touches the lifestream, and Cloud only sees Zack in dreams/otherworldly experiences.
People are accusing Cloud, but I'll be on Cloud's side, he really saved Aerith and people are just hallucinating that she was dead.
So is this a sequel to Advent Children or not?
First of all, sorry to forget but what's this beautiful super-engaged FF woman's name? I love her presence
El Ginge
Bri
Ginge
My thoughts Pez, I think that we'll see a very different ending that puts Cloud in charge of the fate of the planet. He will have to choose between Sephiroths version of salvation and aerith/the planets. From The yogachara influence,i think the empty white materia will be filled with Clouds memories once he finds himself, his dreams and hopes etc. And he will cast holy himself or something along these lines.
Its a full of tearing and hoping ENDIng, I hope cloud bring her back in partIII
I know this is a first take on the ending and you've both theorised higher. I havnt watched the other 2 recent vids yet. But the one thing I wanna say about the rainbow is that I think its not a whiplash effect, but a symbol of the fact you have in fact defied fate, and a new world is born. Just like sephiroth outright tells us. It ties into your remnant theory. I've always been a firm believer in your remnant theory as it makes sense in the world of ff7.
Aerith pre-emptively brought zack back as way to help cloud find himself, and the planet Brought biggs back to counter it. Why? Aerith is defying fate
Proof: zack choses to save cloud, and he probably succeeds. Doesn't matter as that's not his fate. His fate is to die alongside biggs. So a new world is born where he saves biggs, shown by the stamp crisps. The 2 of them are hyper aware that they died, or that they are supposed to be dead, and it ties into what you said about then being in a purgatory like world. Biggs accepts his fate and rejoins the lifestream, but zack, facing the exact scenario he was meant to die in, refuses to fight and flees, resulting in yet another world being born. Proven by Johnny holding a new stamp plush.
Why this ties into the aerith remnant theory? Well why was aerith with avalanche in zacks world if cloud wasn't? She placed a remnant of herself in that world to lead tifa barret and red into a fight with sephiroth, so that zack could find her and figure out why he's alive and why something is wrong with cloud and aerith. The planet put biggs in that world, to distract him and return him to the lifestream
I don't wanna go too deep, but the white space zack and aerith are in, in ac, is confirmed by nomura to be clouds conscious. So zack and cloud fighting sephiroth together, is all in clouds head. Sephiroth obviously knows. But the edge of creation is just a space within the lifestream. Zack isn't real at all, he's a spirit that hasn't found its purpose quite yet. Cloud feels stronger with zack by his side and I think that's what aerith wants. Dunno what role zack will play in part 3, but I think him and aerith will show up in the lifestream when tifa and cloud fall in, and we will say farewell to both of them. I think zack will be there to keep cloud strong when he finally remember his past, and aeriths true fate.
so. Aerith that shows up to help cloud fight, and the one we see in the cutscene after. I think are the same, and shown to be under omi Aeriths influence with the white whispers being at her control and changing the space from where they where on edge of creation I believe omi Aerith pulled them away from there to a space she and cloud could fight together and after they pushed sephy away she had to send him back, and if they explain the timelines well enough and dont go infinite. I think she could come back for a moment of greater purpose with whatever the ending will be, I want the story to go into advent childrens timeline, expand it, make the final fight there bonkers. and after that a updated version of the secret movie to see if humanity still dies out or did our new actions change this story entirely
This game was great, truly fantastic outside of some small repetitive gameplay aspects. What I did hate though was how Zack was used. The swapping timeline stuff throughout was fine, but how it built up for some dumb ultra fanservice moment was just like...why? Why use Zack in that way? All the unease, the speculation from Part 1, the theories, the feeling that he should not exist, all for a cheesy 90s anime style team up at the end. I hope he's in Part 3 because if not that is one hell of a story fumble on Zack's part. Should have been far more involved.
"elitist ff7 pricks" haha never heard that term before, youre a funny guy
Honestly Pez it would be so lame to keep it the same in part 3 I hope they go to wildly new places. I’ve had 2 games of a pretty much faithful remake now also disc 2 faithful remake would not be as good as remake and rebirth I think
It's a long comment so I'll summarise here;
It's not a multiverse!
There's only 1 Lifestram, White and Black Materia.
Sephiroth is using fractured qlippoths to farm and harvest despair.
13:38 Wow really? When Sephiroth was explaining the mechanics all my brain was scream was "AAAHHHHH IT'S QLIPPOTHS! IT'S REALLY HAPPENING!"
And I still see it that way.
I think the reason Pug reality's mako has run out is because even though there are, for now, several active tiers of realities there is still only 1 Lifestream, and it simply can't support them all.
So my understanding is that when Fate was challenged there is a temporary window when the shockwaves radiate out, and it's within this shock radius unshackled new possible outcomes are active. And Sephiroth wants to collect as many of them as he can to top up his chosen vessel/reality.
Because in every 1 we glimpsed they all demonstrated an innate acceptance of understanding their world wasn't to last. Even with acceptance is a touch of sadness and, of course, despair. And i think that's what Sephiroth is harvesting, whilst the shock window is still open.
I believe Highway Aerith realised this shockwave would allow temporary potential realities so hid the White Materia in 1 when she opens the portal. That's why it was empty after. She had the memory of that taken from her but came back into her power at the Temple of the Ancients, and so found her way back to it.
I suspect that the final battle will be over what single reality will Cloud allow to flourish.
The 1 filled with all the despair Sephiroth has harvested in his Frankenstein attempt to make things whole again.
Or fight for the messy 1 Aerith protects but once and for all extracting Jenova/ Sephiroth from. With a conspicuously empty materia possibly.... I mean something has to go in there....
Cloud sees aerith and Zack in advent children though so I just looked at it like that
You don't think sephiroth is reunion of worlds will erase all the worlds except the main one
So I posted this back on a video for “Hollow”, but I’ll post it here too because it’s the most I’ve cooked
The lyrics meanings change so much after Rebirth. In the beginning we thought okay, this is a song from Zach to Aerith, figured it was to do with him coming back and stuff, but oh my god no, it’s literally Cloud talking to Aerith. The song essentially summarizes the whole ending scene of Rebirth, wether aerith is alive or not, it doesn’t matter, because cloud himself is denying that it happened.
First verse is essentially saying how she’s been one of his rocks, how she along with tifa has been there for him as he feels like he’s losing his mind. Second verse leads the song to be more Aerith focused, literally calling out her job as the healer, and how he relied on her and was confident in that she’d always be there to patch him up. Though you could obviously take it the romantic was as these games have really pushed the idea that they are tragic lovers, never to really pan out because she was taken from him.
“Was it all, a dream?
Will I never know?
Foolish, and blind
To everything”
As cloud is holding Aerith, we see it flash between him crying, and then his what is really happening, just like the OG, when he says that she won’t cry or smile or get angry, but we don’t hear them. Then Sephiroth tells him that he won’t see the truth with such clouded eyes. He’s blind to the truth, he’s so mentally broken and this was the icing on the cake.
“Had I realized
Had I thought, it through
Would you be here in my, embrace?”
Simply his thought process as he’s holding her dead, RIGHT BEFORE SHE CONVENIENTLY wakes up before his very eyes.
“Shine bright, once more
Guide me to you
Smile bright once more
This time I will never let, you go”
cloud seeing this weird aerith, he’s pleading, or however you’d like to word it, that she guides him like Aerith has been, and that this time instead of accepting her death like he did in the og, this cloud refuses to, completely erases the memory of it happening and overrides it with a false memory of her being alive in her arms. We don’t get to see him lay her to rest because cloud himself doesn’t even recall him doing that. which will lead probably to his mind prison in part 3 and that’ll be so good.
“With your every, smile
Hiding something more
Dark mysteries
Lurking beneath
But I was, consumed
With this emptiness
This selfishness
This void to fill”
This just supports the popular Theory that this is a fake Aerith, wether it’s Jenova or Sephiroth. even more. Telling us that this Aerith isn’t right, there’s something wrong here, a “Darkness lurking beneath”. But cloud doesn’t care, because of his selfish desire for her to be there with him, and to prevent what would be the start of his collapse, so instead he believes what he’s seeing, because it’s easy and what he wants to see.
“Hear me once more
Show me your smile
This time for sure
I'll see the truth hidden inside, your tears
But I, I know
That you're long gone
But I, I will
Go on howling, and hollow”
He knows she’s dead. He knows that. But he simply will not accept that, he can’t. Now this part can also mean to focus more on Tifa, and how when he finally does see the truth, it will be when tifa is helping him in the lifestream, and with her support he can finally move on. Either way, this song is clearly now about rebirths ending, along with No promises to keep being Aeriths perspective of all of this.
You combine that with how the Music for Jenova Lifeclinger turns aeriths theme so dark and so Eire. And that when they are sitting at the pool and that Aerith shows up they play a 8 note arpeggio, and the only other 8 not arpeggio in FF7 is Jenova theme. Also the fact that Spehiroth knows Aeriths death is vital for his defeat, and the fact that he laughed when it happened, I feel like he’s not worried at all. And the fact that Aerith in the Forest tells Cloud that she will deal with Sephiroth. But at the end Cloud says that HE will deal with Sephiroth, and instead of saying no and reiterating what she has said before, she looks at him and asks “you promise?” That to me was the big tell. Cause why would a girl tell cloud this whole game no take care of yourself leave this to me, show up to fight Sephiroth in the end, and then at the very end take all that back?
I also believe that the reason why we don’t get the burial moment, is that we will for sure get that in Clouds Mind Prison, that’s where we’ll get him remembering him putting her body in the water, and that’s where we’ll see him say what he was saying but that we couldn’t hear it.
Holy jolly molly, finally someone who actually played AND understood the game. Thank you. It's so upsetting always reading the same "sHe'S aLiVe mUlTiVeRsE dUuUuUh" dumb comments.
Kuddos, see you in part 3.
Aerith from Remake is deffo connected in some way with the version with Zack and Marlene, we see that when in remake universion they are on the boat with Gi Natak she feels Zack holding her hand. I genuinly think that we are gonna get Aerith waking up in Zacks world.
I like the game overall but my biggest issues with it are really pacing and structure at a lot of points. I’m fine with the story directions besides no emotional resonance, but yeah they definitely didn’t do the OG moments better than the original.
btw pez I never lied about translation, I speak Japanese, because I born and live in Japan for my entire life and also I just translated what it really means in Japanese about Aerith has romantic feeling for cloud thats, in Japan saying "tsuki" it mean romantic love, anata ga tsuki means I love you not just like you as a friend, ask any japanese they will tell you the same, fyi I am not a shipper I just tell you the real thing that happened in the game that Aerith love romantically for cloud, but I also love the idea of cloud and zack, also cloud and tifa and even cloud and yuffie, so I am not pro shipping Aerith, I am just telling the real meaning of liking in the last scene in the church where she hold him romantically, even without she said she love cloud, the act of holding cloud deeply is an act of romantic love especially in japanese culture, in western culture maybe its common for friends to hold tight like that but not in Japan or in any other eastern countries
Well to be fair there are people that have never played crisis core and the original and think Zack is alive just in an alternate time line
I personally feel like they didnt really insert any completely new concepts into the Remake trilogy. This is based on my assumption that the "multiverse" consists of only one main world and one real physical body for each person.
The errand worlds that often only persist for a short amount of time are the spiritual journeys of the souls on their journeys to return to the lifestream. We read about this concept in "On the way to a smile" and how Aerith helped guiding those souls that are lost. It is also talked about how Aerith for this purpose infuses some souls with cetran knowledge because there are so many of those lost souls which I read as white whispers and of course we know that Sephiroth claims his black whispers by corrupting those souls with despair and that he can actually manifest some of those as more or less actual beings in the real world which we know from advent children.
Edit: Concerning the comment "Zacks world is a fractured/broken purgatory within the lifestream". I think what we are seeing with the crack in the sky is that those worlds have as Sephiroth said a limited time before they merge back into the lifestream. The crack to me just seems like this connection between the fractured world and the lifestream strengthening until the bleed into each other again to become one which means the fractured world from example Zack will end. For the people living in those worlds this ofc is the end of the world but I dont think its something bad. Because "its just a homecoming"... not sure if that thought helps the people that live there even if they are not "real":D
This of course raises the question why Cloud can see the crack in the sky in the "real world". I think there are lots of theories that cant be proven wrong at this point so we will have to wait and see.
In terms of Aerith I am 100% sure she is as dead as she was in the original which you could argue isnt too dead especially considering that she as a cetra can contain her soul whole in the lifestream and not dissolve or only if she wants to. I think in order to keep Cloud from breaking she "tricks" Cloud into thinking she is still there in an Advent Children manner where he could see her as well. Basically to counteract Sephiroths "push" that would have made Cloud loose his mind completely if he actually had to come to terms with Aeriths dead at this point.
So Aerith protects him from this for now.
Edit: It could totally be Cloud protecting himself as well, but either way it seems like protection to me and not like external malicious manipulation
Just some more thoughts while watching:
Aerith and Tifa seemed to have talked a lot to each other but we never saw exactly what. We get the black fade out in Kalm and the muted conversation in Gongaga for example. To me this is about Aerith setting up Tifa to help Cloud. So while Bri says that Aerith would help more if it was "actual" Aerith and not Cloud projected Aerith at the end, I think she probably has set her plan to help Cloud already set in motion but as a spirit without a physical body your powers are probably limited and its not that she has the time to focus all of her attention on Cloud, she even says "I will take care of Sephiroth".
One interesting thing to note is that what she says at the end of rebirth is I think all/mostly quotes from her or others that were previously made I think, sometimes word for word. This could suggest that there is an outside force (Cloud for example) making Aerith up without her soul being responsible for the visions but they could probably twist it either way and most likely will never answer it fully:D
Regarding Sephiroths comment "I underestimated you".
To me it sounded like it was referring to Aerith getting her memories (white materia) back even though Sephiroths whispers stole it from her. The lifestream containing all knowledge present, past and future and flowing through time and space would obviously still contain it, maybe its even the souls of the cetra we know are still in the lifestream. Either way, to me it makes sense that she could back her memories from the lifestream and therefore the white materia.
Sephiroth didnt expect Aerith to make that big of a play but on the other hand he knew that it was possible because as we saw he in the lifestream(-worlds) is on a trip to kill Aerith in those worlds as we saw. It is now enough for him to kill Aerith. he needs to kill every Aerith or to put it in a different way, Aeriths consciousness or soul. Eradicate her existence on a spiritual level, remove her bond to the planet and the people she loves. No more Aerith in Clouds mind that helps keep him sane, no more resistance from withing the lifestream.
If he actually managed to do that (and I think he will) it will hit much harder for OG players because we ofc know that she is still around and interacts with Cloud and reunites with Zack.
Edit: I agree totally with Bri that Aeriths death served a purpose here and there wasnt emotional weight. I do think this was on purpose which doesnt mean its good but when we played og we didnt know that Aerith will still be around so this death stab felt final. The Rebirth death could not feel final no matter what so purely based on that it had less impact. Thats why I think her soul death will be the thing that gets us personally because we never really experienced a world without Aerith.
And while I agree that we will relive the events of when Cloud lowers Aerith into the water, I dont feel like it will make most of us feel anything because we know this already and in Advent Children we even saw a high quality version of it. BUT what will make us feel something is seeing how Cloud deals with it now that he is realizing what happened and how he was left out of the groups mourning and couldnt take part in anything.
Those imo are 2 interesting perspectives on Aeriths death.
On the Empty white materia:
Materia just being Mako and Mako being lifestream I think the most likely outcome is that the empty materia will be filled once Cloud regains himself in the lifestream sequence and "creates" his own white or whatever colored materia.
Similar to how Aerith got her or the cetras knowledge back from an errand lifestream world I think Cloud will do the same.
In that sense, the hollow materia reflects Clouds mind.
Not exactly sure what he will do with it but we will see.
What I do think though is that we will be able to equip this materia once its filled and it will have a "power of friendship" attack or sth - there is absolutely no basis on this in rebirth I just thing thats the direction they are going generally:D
Also, as we know from the Gi Tribe now is that Black materia is basically just a culmination of all their hatred and resentment. The only thing that makes this black materia special is that the degree of this hatred is so high that it has become that powerful. But to me it didnt sound like there is a reason why other white or black materia could exist. Maybe they only manifest if the emotions are very strong and maybe Clouds are enough? idk
I would love to hear your take on the mechanics of the "multiverse" concept specifically because I think the nature of it is vital in understanding what this Remake actually is.
"aerith is playing 3D chess" - Bri
Lmao my sick brain i meant to say 5d 😂
I am not worried about them bringing things forward because if you compare with the PS1 game alot more still to come than what we got in Rebirth. I am currently not worried about the death been meaningless thing because of the multiverse because I think the multiverse in Rebirth is unable to be maintained and I think that's what the rift in the sky means. I also get the impression the multiverse is a recent thing because all the mutliverse changes seem to be recent things, there is non where Cloud's mun and the shrina president didn't bump uglies and Cloud was never born for example. I think only Aerith and Seph can live like they do in the life stream because they are specail and others just die like the real world where we become substance for plant life. I didn't cry at her death but I did wirth how the other characters responded to it. What you got with rebirth was a better showing of the other character emotions. Tifa running towards them in despair and Yuffie crying on the grass. Apart from Cloud you defo got a greater sense or morning in Rebirth. On the idea of changes to Cid and violance, I just hope it's not due to fear of been canced because it's not art or a creative decision if it's out of avoiding been canceled. I think with Sqaure having all the things created after we have all the parts they could make a straight up remake with no changes at much smaller cost if they wanted, I don't think they will though. We will see how sucesseful FF9 Remake will be if that's more faithful.
The end traded feeling for thinking. I loved the game but really wanted a breakup bang and not a goodbye haiku.
I cried btw on that scene, I cried a lot its in my lifestream, everyone hears it, so its not the game problem that the ending doesnt makes everyone cried, its because your mind overthinking stuff thats your problem, because you think they made Aerith a plot device??? if you can dismiss your mind for a bit that it doesnt matter if there a new timeline or if she still exist in the livestream, it DOESNT MATTER if its just a homecoming, the death of human still tragic and sad, please listen to Aerith speech again after the trials!!!! we cant think that dead is just a homecoming because your dead matters a lot more than you think, dont think but feel!!!! overthinking made you cant cry on those scene, doesnt matter if Aerith still alive in another timeline, her dead here still sad and makes me cry, make anyone who not overthinking it cried
I disagree about Aeriths death being just a plot device and not a celebration of her. The entire date! The goodbyes! She took control of her fate and gave agency to the decisions every step. In OG that's what it was, here it's Aeriths choice to "Noble Sacrifice" for the world and her friends. She even got one over on Sephiroth personally in the end!
Livestream is not just a memory or a cycle of live and rebirth of humans or animal or trees, its also a cycle of times and timelines, cycle of live and rebirth of worlds, before remake even in OG there actually countless cycle of timelines already happened, but because the fates guarded the events in all of those worlds there is only 1 outcome every outcome in those hundred or million of cycles is the same as OG outcome, but after remake that cycle breaks and give births of worlds with different outcome, that is bad for Sephiroth because now he is not just fighting the possibility of one worlds now he has to fight other worlds too, he has to fight Zacks, he has to fight other version of cloud, that's why he wants to reunite the worlds so he can control the outcome
ah bri do you really hate Aerith so bad? when did she said home coming? Aerith said "its like a 2nd home" when Cloud ask "are you going to be ok getting back?", she referring city of the ancient the forgotten capital as 2nd home not homecoming, I dont mind you dont like Aerith but please don't twist her words just to make your point on making her bad, sorry if my comment to harsh, but I dont like people interpreting things or makes stuff up just to make their theory valid
Calm down you sound ridiculous lol. I was referring to the beginning of the dream date scene when she mentions a home coming. You're misunderstanding and who said I hate Aerith? You sound crazy and like one of those weird shippers lol
Gross response. The entire ending reaction was you looking scared or in pain everytime Cloud and Aerith were on screen together and your "insights" were the same cloti crap you see all over twitter.
@shannon1242 tell me you're a cringe shipper without telling me lol
@shannon1242 lol how pathetic. Another idiot who thinks that because I like Cloud with Tifa that means I hate Aerith. The ending sequence was uncomfortable because Aerith knew she was going to die and was acting weird- even Cloud says so. I love Aerith's character and what she does for the story. But go off
more realistic than tifa being sad about Aerith being alive would be that Cloud is happy that Aerith is dead, as now Tifa is available!
i do think we are going to still see Aerith lots in part 3, but then again, i am still holding on to seeing Jessie as well.
the moment with Red sensing Aerith almost seems as if they predicted that some people would think that Aerith is a Jenova Illusion, and making sure that there isnt a question.
only Cloud can see Aerith and the Tear, any chance that he will be the only one that can see Zack??
It also seems a little odd that Sephiroth is trying to reunite the different worlds, yet cuts them apart to separate Cloud and Zack, seemed short-sighted considering his big plan.
to me, the biggest story thread that hasnt yet gone anywhere is with the Gi. barely any future mention of them after Cosmo. guessing they will have a huge role in part 3.
Aerith/zack going to become the next minerva/genesis?
I dont agree that infinite timeline will diminish the meaning of death or the important of what happened in one timeline, Aerith's death in original will still so much impactful in my life when that happened, even if I go to another universe where Aerith live, the experiences the feeling the sadness the despair of Aerith's death still impact me at the root level in my physc so doesnt matter if there is infinite universe/timelines/worlds, is what happened to you that's matter in your own timeline, its part of you experience matters and will always be part of you even if she is alive in another worlds or even as spirit form in the livestream, just like Aerith said about homecoming, the live you have now matters even though dead is just a homecoming but loosing your live here matter a lot, so we cant think that dead is just a homecoming, the same of thinking that we cant think that one event in one timeline/world is just in one timeline/worlds, every events matter!!!!! even all the events in all those multiverse
another thing this is just a game, just a story all the characters is made up, the story is made up, but everyone in the game, Aerith, tifa, everyone has impacted more than anyone alive in my real life!!! to those looking from outside they we see us are crazy for crying to the dead of fictional character, of upset for reducing Aerith's dead, so we cant mourn her, of upset that the dev desicion makes some of us doesnt cry, but you know what to us it doesnt matter if Aerith is just a fictional character we still love her, we still care for her, so it doesnt matter if it is just a game the feeling I feel is real, the experience is real for me, the same it doesnt matter if there are multiple timelines/worlds or dead is just a homecoming, its real for those who experience it, ok let just say there are another world where your loveone is alive and you know it for a fact that they live happily in that other world or if they happy in heaven of something, but that doesnt make they dead not sad or meaningless, for me I am still sad that my parents died when I was 7 even if they still alive in another timeles or something, its still impacted my life
Aerith will not going to be in part 3 all the time she probably will be like advent children helping the team from time to time, but about Aerith alive in another timeline thats not going to be in part 3 it probably going to be in dlc or maybe the spinoff game of FF7 remake, cause they not going to fit the another timeline plot where Aerith is alive in part 3 because everything will be different, like Tifa could not be the one that help cloud in the livestream, although holy can still be summon but it will failed and she still can control the livestream even if she alive to repel meteor, but it will be a completely different story we wont event have time to go to wutai or rocket town, so no!!! the Aerith alive timeline will not be in part 3
I believe none of the Aerith in the ending is in cloud mind or Jenova, it is the real Aerith!!!, but its Aerith that already has her memories from OG and even from zack's timeline and from others timeline that we dont even know yet, so yes just like pez said Aerith doesnt want to influence the outcome or mess up what going to happened further because she scared that will make cloud future different the worst cloud could become full sephiroth/jenova and lost forever just like what happened to sephiroth
for bri, this game trying to make you care about dead a lot but because you adult is harder, because adult tend to overthinking stuff, just like Aerith speech, dead still sad and a tragedy no matter if its just a homecoming or another timeline, doesnt mater, what matter is what happened to you, what you experience right now, the game trying to say DONT OVERTHINKING STUFF!!! then you will find the real meaning of live and death
I cant. Bri's talking points related to Aerith are verbatim the same things you see in the most toxic Cloti shipping communities online. It's obvious she is heavily engaged in that community but brings that bias to these types of videos which is a bummer.
The video that made the cucked comment wasn't related to shipping or Cloud/Aerith. It was just some random here is why I hated the ending click bait. Why even use this platform to try to throw an unrelated group under the bus?
Pezs videos are awesome for these really cool thematic deep dives and the Twitter Cloti hot takes really derail conversation and almost ruined Pezs ending reaction video.
"It's obvious she heavily engaged in that community" lol I do not have time for that nonsense. It's obvious that you're just blindly hateful and YOU must engage heavily in those communities to be so defensive over a small comment I made. To go as far as to say I almost ruined his video. Get a life and touch grass. People like you ruin this community. I'm so sick of blindly hateful people. And we are obviously talking about different things with the cucked comment because I hadn't seen a single rebirth critique video at the time of this recording.
Those crazy opinions are from cleriths. Then they harass the devs. They are just stupid
Many different fans harassed the devs including Tifa and Cloti fans. No need to blame a whole portion of the fandom for a few nutters.
With my initial post-game reaction, the idea of Cloud simultaneously living in worlds where he DID and DIDN'T save Aerith was a popular theory for me. (Or at the very least, he gained the ability to see things in the lifestream.) I am expecting some sort of payoff to this mutliversal "confluence of worlds" plot that they've introduced here--especially with Zack. If he is still alive within the multiverse, then there's a good chance that Aerith is still alive in another world, isn't there? Though I do agree with y'all, to a certain extent, with how Rebirth's plot really did make death in the game seem trivial.
Now another thing that I thought about as the weeks went on...seeing as how Aerith controls the White Whispers (And Sephiroth controls the black ones), do you think she could've made an executive decision to course-correct the timeline and still die after Cloud parried Sephiroth's mortal blow? Maybe she's known for the longest that her physical death was necessary to stop Sephiroth?