Overwatch 2: You Play Support WRONG! - Git Gud Guide
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- Опубликовано: 15 май 2024
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Thanks to your submitted replays I've been able to narrow down what I think is the biggest barriers to players feeling like they have agency in the support role. The #1 issue is cover usage and spacing/rotations through a fight. Fail to use cover and you will never activate your very powerful support passive, auto regen after moments out of combat. In this video we explain how to identify what cover to rotate to, what targets to pressure, jiggle peaking and more.
Timestamps
00:00 Intro
01:31 Typical Support Positioning Mistakes
04:53 Identifying Cover and Power Positions
09:13 Refusing to Make a Mistake
12:27 Holding Cooldowns for Impact Plays
15:54 Using High Ground Line of Sight (LOS)
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Dude, close captions please!!
...No
Nah
my gf heard me use the term "jiggle peaking" and idk if shes ever gonna take me seriously again lol jk jk
Not to mention the Ping system is broken and no one is talking about it
I can live and fight off flankers... But I cant stop our Tank from taking damage 100% of the match. Please use cover guys... HEALERS DONT REPLACE THE USE OF COVER
THIS is what kills me the most . more than the enemy dps , the tanks who just think this is warcraft and they should be healed 24/7 . i will try to apply Freedo's way and leave them to die . we must stand together and say no more . if you dont peel and use cover you die. they must learn the hard way
As a tank main, I wholeheartedly agree. Cover is the best support. Hate to say this, but just let them die. That’s the only way they learn
@@Sch1ndig Only way they'll learn or you will get away from them.
In my experience i encounter more supports that play in the frontline thinking their tank can stay there forever and doesn’t need the cover than the tanks themselves not acknowledging that they can’t tank everything
You're saying that tanks can't play the game? Always has been lol
I think a "healing received/dmg taken" stats at the end of the game would help with context. Sometimes people get flamed for not healing teammate X when they may be but teammate X is just taking too much dmg. It's a little thing but it would be cool to have in the post game report
Yup I only do quick play and don’t expect high level coordination but it pains me to see the tank run in by themselves only to take way too much damage.
yeah its annoying you can't 1v5 the enemy team around a corner and wonder why i didn't heal you enough.
I don't think people have any idea what 'takes too much damage' is or in what context someone should be taking more damage than anyone else.
Happened to me tonight. A dps ate almost the entire enemy team's damage, got deleted, and wondered why he didn't get healed. Go back to arcade, holy fuck.
Pretty sure this is the exact situation Blizzard attempted to avoid by NOT putting a scoreboard in OW1. If you don't have the game knowledge to interpret the numbers, the scoreboard just ironically becomes fuel for more finger pointing
This video should be provided to DPS players like "how to not die pointless deaths and then blame your healer"
We're not healers, we're supports xD
Supports that’s why folks mindsets won’t change because of people being lazy and thinking my support only job is to heal me
80% of DPS players are stupid but Tanks are even worse. They think that they can go out and just shoot whilst the supports should heal them. Those bots do not get that we Support mains are not just healers you can blame at the end of the match but those players stfu when they try to blame me because I tell them that bad gameplay cannot be healed.
As a plat support player myself, this video is super useful. Talking about positioning in ways I've never even thought about really challenges me to step up my game. Thanks for the great educational vid!
Not dying is the biggest skill for OW2 supports. This is why Moira is better than she outta be. She doesn't have the utility the other supports have, but good luck sending her to spawn and stopping her from constantly contributing
Well yeah Moira/Kiriko take no skill to survive, Lucio takes some skill, but the others you really have to use your brain.
I agree. Supports first priority right now is not to heal but to stay alive, as dead supports do not contribute anything to the team. That said, healing should be a close second.
For me, Mercy is really good at this. Her new superjump is amazing for positioning and staying alive. Flankers are much easier to handle now than before. I also don't need to sacrifice healing to escape, as I can do both at the same time because she doesn't need to keep looking at her teammate to heal.
I don’t like Moira, I think her kit is lame. But you’re absolutely right it’s much easier to survive when your fade is a get out jail card.
Eh it's easier than you think. With good aim, force her Fade, then kill her with your cooldowns. You'll often kill her through healing orb with most characters. The really annoying ones are the ones that use the damage orbs out of LOS and use Fade to move from cover to cover (people like me lol).
@@thedofflin Idk, when I'm having trouble surviving as Kiriko (I.e. double flanked), I tend to go Moira. Kiriko just doesn't shoot fast enough to scare a Genji who is the most focused on disorienting her by jumping constantly overhead.
Moira just vaguely points, sucks, and can keep a heal blob or damage blob in the room with her, or instantly fade, instead of relying on timing a suzu, or finding a target to escape to.
Maybe in high ELO Kiriko is *just* as easy as Moira to keep alive, but people know how to position there, afaik.
The problem with playing support is the team wants to be healed but doesn't care if the healer dies but conveniently never forgets the I need heal button combo.
"Guys, i just slept a Reaper here next to me, anyone maybe wanna turn around and have a look? no?"
@@dyamonde9555 this happened to me earlier with a bastion I slept. My hog was like “I’ll alt fire him from 5 meters away instead of waiting for hook!”.
@@user-wf5fi7dv2m at least your Hog acknowledged his existence...
yeah and ranking up guides tell you that you shouldn't heal but DPS
My favorite is when they do a player-targeted (to you: I need Healing!) right after I've died;
like tracer, I am dead
Great video, especially stating that it isn't a support's job to save a teammate from themselves. I cannot count how many times I've thought "Well, guess I should try to help them" and trying to do so, even though I know better.
There are so many statements like this that _were_ true in OW1, but not OW2. It's a huge process of unlearning for support.
I've heard people say shit like 'I give up on bailing out my teammates' and I was like 'yeah it sucks' and would proceed to try bailing them out all the time anyway. But with freedo arguing that there are big benefits from literally just keeping yourself alive, I'm taking it seriously. Teammates dying out of position is 'officially' Not Your Problem Now, I'm immediately finding it more enjoyable to play support.
In many ways, Overwatch is a game of responsibilities and establishing which roles/positions can and cannot reliably fulfil those responsibilities is really important. Hopefully more supports play like this so the other roles get used to protecting themselves, because I'm so fucking done with bailing people out of their stupid positions and dying for them.
I play enough MMOs to know that if a DPS is being stupid, you don't save them Leeroy Jenkins style. Don't let one persons mistake kill the team.
What sucks now though is that a tank is so vital, that if they’re playing super poorly and just eating everything, you have to keep them up anyways because if they die it’s a lost fight. I’ve been flamed for healing less than a roadhog who was outhealing every support in the match and not once did he think “maybe I should stop face tanking all 5 of them”
I'm learning as much from the comments at the video, but where is the line regarding being on point? Or is that a group of individual player failure? I play support a lot, and so many times NO one tries to get on point. I've had to try to take a hill by myself as support because no one was going for it (with mixed success).
This is me. Every game. XD
With tanks being the highest Impact role, you should make a tank guide. The community really needs it.
My TLDR guide: Tanks are split into two categories: tank brawler and squishy killer. Tank brawlers want to meet the enemy tank and outwit them. Squishy killers want to do what the name implies but they must balance a tight rope with tank brawlers because tanks can just walk right into your team and just smash them. Figure out which one your team needs and play your role. Generally, mobile team -> squishy killer and deathball -> tank brawler but sometimes your teammates have a specific style with certain characters.
Sadly, I fear the ones who need the guide are not the type of player to look guides up- otherwise this issue wouldn't exist because there are already guides out there.
@@xblowsmokex you’re right
Support is hard. You’re playing DPS, and also keeping the team alive. I can see why it’s not the most played role though: success happens when you accept that others will be the ones with glory if you do everything right.
Yea I think support POTGs need to be prioritized like If Ana Nanos a Reaper and team wipes but the Reaper gets POTG
@@sharpenmysight5954 i don't know what it is with the game code, but Ana especially NEVER gets PotG, or even a Highlight at the end of the evening.
@@sharpenmysight5954 Don't even get me started on Mercy...
@@Lnclt-tc3ln Ikr you can Res the Tank Heal someone up damage boost the soldier and get a pick and some how others get POTG
@@sharpenmysight5954 Yet Ive literally *_NEVER_* seen a Sleep Dart POTG, even if it Slept a Genji Blade on the payload during overtime, singlehandedly winning the game for her team.
I really wish they would've put more dev time in the "POTG algorithm" when designed OW2.
The refusing to make a mistake idea is quite profound actually, it just feels so weird and unintuitive, but I see the logic. Keen to try this out now
Very opposite of Overwatch 1 where the way you won games was by getting in there and pumping heals and utility
I'm assuming this all applies to Zen, I mean especially Zen because he is so ridiculously diveable. Zen was my main but I just haven't figured out how to play him in OW2
@@thedofflin camp your corners and stick with your tank, he takes most of the aggro and kind of protects from dives
@@tumultoustortellini See I think you should always be in a position to support your tank, but it's a mistake to be at the same position as your tank. What you're saying made sense in OW1 with an off-tank, but I don't believe in the whole "stick near your tank and you'll be fine" thing anymore.
@@thedofflin That's what usually effective in the zens I fight. I don't just mean stick with your tank, I mean stick with them just close enough for them to both pull aggro and also scare off divers while sticking around corners enough to always escape when pressured. It's a weird position to describe but it's what I've seen work
I think more often than not, my positioning is great... when teams understand the game tempo. The problem is we tend to have to compromise it to keep people alive. The whole "YOUR BAD POSITIONING IS MAKING ME HAVE BAD POSITIONING!" Dilemna. All the newer players filtering up the ranks have weird consequences too... in late OW1 there was a sense of self-responsibility for your own life at least to the point of moving into support range. Now I feel like i'm expected to hard pocket everyone all over the map all at once even outside team fights and if i'm not able to get there or im fighting off flankers... then i've committed some grave act of betrayal.
I know that feel, man. I'm a support main... we all feel it. We all get flamed for not making up for their mistakes. Sometimes people treat supports like some form of servant and they consider themselves to be the privileged star ace players that we have to make look good for the cheerleaders or something.
They're trash and they can stay in their rank while I keep climbing lol
The moment you realise that you are everyone's pocket healer the easier this becomes
As a support main who’s in silver currently, if I can offer some suggestions to people who mainly play tanks or DPSs in similar ranks I would say to please try to keep track of where your supports are. I see a lot of people in those two roles that seem to expect their supports to follow and pocket them to the ends of the earth even when that means following them into a really bad position where you’re both pretty much guaranteed to die. Keep in mind that we can’t heal you through walls and we can’t heal you from the other side of the map, so if your support has recently died then please take a few steps back towards spawn so we can help get you back in the fight sooner and more safely. Especially if your supports are playing heroes whose movement abilities are dependent on their proximity to teammates, like Mercy or Kiriko, because if those two characters can’t use their movement abilities to get from spawn to the objective then it can take a while for them to get to you.
I agree but also i climbed support and was diamond. You have to start thinking ahead of where your team is because the healers have the huge responsibility to know where their team is and bad healers tunnel on one person. Because in climbing i saw that the potential of the dps is higher if i can heal them in if they are trying to get picks on crucial enemies. The one healer thats good at that is ana
I like the format of this video, pointing out the mistakes and jumping into a game to show what they should have done is the best way to learn, good job!
I just downloaded this game yday. This was really helpful. I came from valorant where everything was more slow and methodical. In OW everything was so chaotic, everyone was running and gunning and I felt like I had no impact in game. This guide was very helpful. Good to know positioning is still important in both games.
I also played League where support is expected to sacrifice their lives for their carries, in OW I realize how much more significant support is. If the support dies in this game, everyone friggin dies. It's interesting to see all the differences.
I didn't even see the angles at the end that you pointed out for me in the game, and thank you for choosing mine! I felt overall my mechanics are generally good, but the positioning is by far what I need to work on the most. Seeing what you pointed out for angles though is gonna help me a ton at understanding what is a good angle and why though, and that is going to be invaluable for me. Thank you a ton!
That's a really good point - if you refuse to play around cover and around your own ability to disengage, you're essentially choosing to play without a role passive. What an important perspective shift for newer players to realize about how important their positioning is. Make the enemy expend as many resources just to get to you, and they'll have less to actually pressure you with.
This video is needed for a lot of tanks. There is too many of them that overextend
So tru. Many overextend and beg for heals yet they are taking the full damage of every person on the enemy team.
Nah it's not this. It will look like they overextend, but the issue with tank players by far is that they do not understand their own influence. They basically control a huge part of the map simply by existing and if they move out of position, the enemy can then occupy the space they were controlling. It's basically a misunderstanding of map control.
@@GaussianEntity no I’m taking about overextending where they push up into the enemy team too far and or go around corners into the enemy where it’s not possible to heal them and they pretty much feed because they are by themselves
This guide is amazing! I loooove the example suggestions and coaching with the context of the submitted VOD.
With the second game, this happened to me while playing Sigma. Even when my teammates kept dying, I played it safe with controlled aggression and we could not lose our control of the point since I never died.
Really great video. Looking forward to more in-depth Bap ones if you end up doing them, I'll be watching for sure. Thanks, dude. :D
Thats what keeping you in gold tiers.
all supports (except mercy) should deal damage when healing is not necessary, or when the kill potential value is higher than some heals
Ana has some responsibility to pressure Echo and pharahs for example. She deals 70 damage. You hit one shot and that helps your dps alot on taking her down
@@DarwinzTheoryz absolutely. Pharah won’t go away if all you’re gonna do is try and run away
Mercy should damage boost most of the time.
Sometimes, damage boosting as her is a higher priority than healing low hp teammates if they’re not in immediate danger.
I agree but I think this misses the point of the video, which goes a step further. I think the main problem being addressed here - and I was consistently making this mistake - is thinking that 'should contribute damage when you don't need to heal' means 'play aggressive and hunt people down'. Heroes with escape like Moira/Kiriko/Lucio _can_ do that to an extent, but it's completely different for the rest of the support roster with minimal escape abilities.
DO NOT PLAY AGGRESSIVELY on support heroes without escape abilities. Contribute damage while avoiding risky positions.
@@thedofflin yuuup you are 100% right, but dont you think for lower ranks advicing them to just heal is better, all these advice asumming critical thinking from youtubers is wat always kills overwatch comp, its what gave us 5v5, when barriers were the problem. an echo chamber should never dictate.
Fantastic video. This is the guidance the vast majority of us need.
YES. please do these videos way more often. These are the best type of videos you guys put together.
Loving the visual (skirmish mode) examples of what you are talking about. I'm a really visual learner and that just sinks in more for me. Thumbs up :)
As a support main, I recognize that it's definitely possible to carry as a support. In fact, in many ways it can be the easiest role to carry in simply because you're relied on by definition of the role itself. But just because certain aspects of the role lends itself naturally to being able to carry a match, doesn't mean that the game feels fair to the role in practice.
Because you're going to get blamed by every other teammate that makes a mistake, on top of the rarer legitimate mistakes of your own. It can just suck to play support no matter how effective you are in the match, because the moment something falls apart somewhere, either the tank or the healer will get blamed, and it's usually the tank doing the blaming, and they're blaming you for them standing in front of every bullet they didn't actually need to and never thinking about cover or the well-being of their supports. (In essence.)
So, I like the role, because I generally feel like I have more control over the outcome of the match, and the general playstyle, but I don't actually like the unbalanced level of responsibility that comes with the role compared to Tank and DPS. And out of all the supports I prefer playing Brig, because sometimes you just get sick of every single person on the other team (including their healers) gunning for you to make the slightest mistake and capitalizing on every moment your team lets you down and leaves/puts you in a terrible position.
The role needs a little something to take the edge off so that it doesn't feel like you're the only role on the team that needs to understand everything that's going on in all directions with both teams at all times.
Also, the passive healing just kinda sucks. On paper it sound okay. But in the actual game, the two supports are the only ones on the team (generally) NOT being healed by TWO healers. The passive healing is meant to make up for that. But that still means that you’re far less likely than any other role to be healed AS you are taking damage.
Great guide but PSA for new players, make sure you turn off Team Chat when practising these concepts because you are going to get flamed to death, which will impact your enjoyment of the game, which at the end of the day is the main point of playing in the first place.
Hey Freedo! Do you think you could do a video on all the heros counter picks! And what you'd typically want to bring to fight a different comps/playstyles. I think that would be greatly helpful. Have a good night!
So simple, but such an effective guide with great examples. Just thinking back on some previous games there are definitely some times where I try to save team mates knowing that I could die with them by following. Keeping good cover and trying to get them to fall back to me is great advice!
Some of you need to understand the utility of some support heroes, you can’t just keep picking Moira and mercy sometimes you need the burst heal, defensive ult, and extra damage
I don’t like the term “healer” is more like support, you are supposed support your team by peeling, doing extra like damage, and making it easier for your team to get kills not just being a heal bot
I agree with positioning and I myself use natural cover all the time, but it usually ends up with my team just always fighting out of my line of sight, dying, then blaming me
Ok. I have watched loads of these videos talking about “take high ground. Use cover. Rotate with your team” but this is by far the best.
Don’t suppose you’d be interested in doing a “map break down” style series? It would be great to see you go end to end on all the maps just talking about different spots for different situations.
Subbed for future stuff either way. Good stuff
To summarize: support squishy, position better, don't die
To summarize: support squishy, position better, don't die, _but like actually_
this is what we need, do more of these
Great content Freedo. More of this please.
The main reason behind losses in lower ranks really is just players dying in stupid ways. Mostly by trying to fight before the team has grouped up, but sometimes also by just dying incredibly late or taking an idiotic position (I'm looking at you, Anas who try to sniff their own tank). It's always about bad positioning tho.
Really like these kinds of guides. Also cool you're calling Paraíso "Rio map"
Good stuff. Positioning is so important with support. I'm not quite to the masters or GM level, but trying to get there. I feel like I do pretty well with my main supports (Ana and Kiriko in comp so far) as far as ability usage, and I don't die a ton, but I do struggle on some of the newer maps with proper positioning since I"m less familiar with them.
Would have liked to hear some dueling tips as well, but I suppose those are very hero specific. I can usually duel really well with Ana and Kiriko, but struggle a lot with Zen and Bap. I've noticed with Zen it's always really tempting to give the enemy a boot to the face because it's fun, but half the time I end up booting the enemy to a more comfortable position.
Why you're bad at Moira:
You unbound your left click
This video is perfect for me. I'm stuck in plat and I know it's my positioning and some of the other things you mentioned.
16:29 Most players don't even know that this high ground exists after almost 2 months. If they do know it exists, they don't even use it anyway.
It's gonna take them another 6 years to realise that this position is OP AF
It’s no cover over there you’ll literally just get dived or flanked from the side I can see a Argument for Inside the Building in the windows above the fight and on the sides but you gotta be careful up there
I just learned you can go nearly all the way around boh sides of the map there
Great video. Thank you
as a support main: Always focus your tanks (they are first priority by enemy and can save you if you stay with them)
2. Always look for cover and don't try to DPS unless your team is with you to cover or you are very sure about a particular kill.
3. Others: Please save healthpacks for your support instead of taking it as you are 199/200 because they can heal you but you can't.
Hopefully the new wave of support players see this
Hopefully the old wave of support players see this too.
What wave? Queue times for support are consistently less than a minute. New players don't want to play support.
Sounds like something a bronze 5 dps would say lol
@@thedarkcranberry less than a min is not great. other games with matching i play get 2-10sec q times. i, in oceania got as poor as 9min for tank role early in the morning
@@markomanx 😂
Being a support main is like being an offensive lineman. You protect everyone, youre constantly under appreciated and the only time people ever talk about you is when they THINK the reason why something didn’t work was because you didn’t your job.
Thanks for this
I think some adjustments to post game stats or analysis are needed. Might be tricky to nail but some kind of graphing of damage healing plotted against match time could be very interesting and useful.
It would allow you to potentially discern how effectively your team focused damage, if there were large gaps without healing etc. Maybe even show that their dps' dives weren't matched by your own applying pressure or rescues. Might even allow to figure out strategies the opponent used to beat you that you missed amongst all the chaos. If, for example, you could see that at several key points a certain combo of heroes were both pumping damage for a pick, leading to big pushes, you could figure out their gameplan. Maybe you even notice that after your healer switched to a more appropriate hero those moments were nullified, and you now have a much better read of why the game panned out whatever way, as well as a counter going forward.
If you play support in Bronze/Silver you will understand that you MUST get out of position to heal your team or else your entire team will die, and blame YOU.
the problem is everything below plat is extremely chaotic.. u as a support can be in a fine position but everyone is so spread off doing flanks getting drawn into stupid areas or just doing their own thing... like 3 ppl chasing 1 person. at that point u have 2 options either help your team in the hope that maybe u win the team battle or stay where u are and watch them all die 1 by 1 until your 5v1 and die anyway... definitely losing the objective and fight
Trust the method, literally just survive. If you die, play in a more defensive position. If you die again, play in an even more defensive position. Trust the method.
@@thedofflin at those ranks it's no more effective than staying with your team. as I said what ends up happening is u just get jumped 3+ v 1 after each of your team members has been slaughtered. u'll literally just find yourself pinned back against your spawn.
also u'll get 0 endorsements and lots of reports and abuse.
u are better just pocketing the best player on your team in an emergency and force your way up to high gold low plat. Once u get there ull start to see some more comms more organised team play and then absolutely u need to play much smarter
The option is to play your best position as consistently as possible. You build up your MMR over time and the rest starts to take care of itself
@@vkdeen7570 Send me a replay code and I'll review it.
The more chaotic and brainless the level, the more important and effective these concepts are. The amount of value you can bring when you have twice as much uptime is the single most important thing you can do to climb out of the metal ranks. Yeah, your team will be brainless and feed, but so will the enemy. How many more opportunities to save someone will you have by never dying? How many more opportunities to secure a kill on an overextending enemy? How much more overall pressure will their tank feel? When the skill level is chaotic, the game is all about making the least amount of unforced errors, because the opportunities to exploit everyone else's errors will always be there if you're around to seize them. Conversely, when you take away opportunities to exploit YOU, you force the enemy to spend resources just getting to you, taking more pressure off of your team, and giving them more freedom to find opportunities of their own.
I've been in the super rigid camp of "I'm not compensating for your mistakes with my positioning" for most of the time I've played ow (even now), and it definitely feels like that is holding me back a ton. A bad strategy should always be better than a 4 man mistake as I see it.
Overall I feel like the "carry your games" mindset that has been taught has in the long term damaged players' willingness to cooperate, which is why we see so much overextending, and disregard of any role that requires a little more convoluted thought to play (like off-angling, LoS to supports, and why a tank is doing what they're doing and how they need help from the team to be threatening). I agree that a dmg taken stat would realign the ignorance of "outputting more from my character is always better, no matter the cost".
If you need healing to _carry_, its a paradox, you're not carrying, dial it back, you're not getting healed for a reason. Anyone remember peeling? Neither. The worst part is that no-one seems to want to need healing, and few want to do the healing, so I find it hard to reason why 70% of support gameplay is just that.
I'm not a great player, but even I can't stress enough the importance of cover. My best games are when I manage to outposition enemy supports AND exploit my superior positioning (I usually whiff what should be free kills and saves when I set myself correctly).
I think support and tank are pretty similar in that positioning correctly will be more important than making random picks. It's all about the numbers game and giving dps opportunities to make a play
Great point about playing defensive and being there for the respawn. I’m usually the last to die, but as the end of the team fight I will go out of position to try to make a play w/ the last remaining teammates. We all die and then someone is already running solo into die. 😂
Would be cool to see some eval of when is the right time to use cool downs like suzu or the lamp, etc
This is excellent content thank you for the 10000 ft view freedo. Please continue
I’ve been struggling hard on zen in ow2, 2 tanks was so much easier to stay alive, gotta grind him and get better
Just practice. If you can position and stay alive you're doing half the battle. If you can get picks too? Damn!
I'm a pretty good lucio main haven't played in a while was average od 20k heals now doing like 2 to 8k heals. always got to get back to the basics for sure. I always go back especially now thst OW2 has got me back in it after almost a year of not playing
That's fine, the best supports in the game don't spend too much time healing, they'd rather help kill. Dead enemies means less damage they do and less healing too. Forget about in game statistics!
The fact that we need specific guides on how you SHOULD play support alone should be proof enough that supports need a rework.
The other 2 classes are easy to pick up role wise (not specific heroes) , while support are getting a lot of complaints and the community answer is to play them in a specific way? No, get them on the same level as the other 2 roles
They all have their own problems. Tanks don't make space and that are just payload pushers/horse shooters and dps that don't understand their hero or over extending
My only problem when playing as a healer is dealing with an enemy Pharah. Because I automatically become Pharah's main target and my team could not careless except for when they need healing.
"Oh the enemy has a pharah. Well I'll keep spamming junkrat bombs randomly hoping for the best :)"
@@Kawabongahlive Had that just yesterday: 3 rounds Lijang Tower... Our DPS for the WHOLE match: Junkrat + REAPER (Junk switched to Bastion in Round 3...)
Us supports had to fight of Phara by switching to Baptiste+Ana being more occupied defending ourselves than healing as a result (the enemy tracer was just as annoying).
Reaper just kept running into the enemies and got himself killed over and over, paractically dealing no dmg and only got about 6 kills over 3 rounds (even we supports had more!)
And yeah, we lost because of it. No surprise there.
I like seeing my teammates go into fight when enemy team uses kitsune rush and we have no ult to fight/counter it. hahaha
Very nice tips because, if is true i don't have expertise with this heroes, i want to play more with Bapt and Ana for their utility for the team.
My only question if this tips works too with Moira and Brig.
For Brig, it's mandatory to play corners. You simply will not survive if you don't. While Moira can survive in the open, better players will punish you. Also, it's a noob trap because taking too much damage forces you to spend healing orbs on yourself when you should be throwing them to your team or damage orbs to the enemy. Basically don't take damage and you can use your cooldowns to kill the enemy or keep your team alive.
I love how your solution for support being mowed down left right and center is go hide or instant death is all you can find.... yeah lots of strategy in overwatch 2 now....
The dog training is so true. I count it as a win when I have 0 deaths, double digit assists and have LOS of the tank and both DPS. I just try to make sure I'm in the middle of our team V
These are good tips. I got reset to silver and climbed to GM. Use cover and hit your shots.
This is 100% the biggest issue. A lot of ranged supports totally forget they have range and play right behind the tank like Lucio or something.
Even Lucio shouldn't play behind the tanks. He can do practically anything with wall ride. Just taking the tank to the fight and dislodging from them to go after weak targets is good most of the time. If they have to chase, then regroup with them and push onward.
while i agree with most of your tips there is still the e problem that a support can't do nothing if you have those teammates who get always caught out of position
True, but the enemy team is also just as likely to have those people. Unless you personally are trying to avoid it. That means 4/5 of the people you roll for your team are likely to make these mistakes--and 5/5 on the enemy team. By focusing on yourself and by playing large numbers of games, you will have the advantage and climb over time. This is how it always has been.
This same problem exists regardless of whatever role you are playing. Everyone on the team is important, they are all effected equally when your whole team are chronics feeders who do nothing but die all game.
In your Bap guide can you give tips for when/how to use his ult? It sounds silly but I never seem to use it at the right time and it does nothing
ML7 has a good Bap guide. I’m 99% sure he goes over when to use window.
Don't be too surprised about that.
About half the time I use it my team actually shoots PAST the window ON PURPOSE not realizing what's going on (probably confusing it with a shield)
just imagine standing in colosseo putting up the window on the left of the colosseum part (where the bot is at the beginning) and suddenly YOUR WHOLE TEAM moves to the right side and keeps shooting PAST the window as if they would DYE if they hit it !
Freedo out here doing the Lord Jeff's work. Papa bless.
If you play Zen you will learn these precious lessons about positioning that much faster.
Its true, just being able to hold on can win you games. Had a round of Mystery Heroes where the other team is walking all over mine, almost get the payload to last point on Circuit Royal with like half a minute left on the clock. I die on Sombra and get Mei and we manage to take out the two on cart, walling the team off and killing some more of them. Not just once but twice and I mostly play support heroes+I used to play some Mei in Hog meta since her wall and cube blocks hook
Mystery Heroes isn't a real mode. It's all just luck of the draw. You won because you were switched to a better hero than they could counter with their luck of the draw heroes.
I need this. I just wanna play lucio man but support is lot different now i feel boarder line useless like 90% of the time. The other 10% i am fully useless
amazing video
What suggestions do you have for low mobility supports like Ana and Zen for re-positioning? I feel like I am more out of the fight than in when repositioning with some supports. Obviously Bap and Kiriko can quickly and easily get to the high ground, but Ana and Zen cannot
Just DPS with Zen. He's not much of a healer anyway. His utility is the damage. As for Ana, if you're taking high ground positioning and your teammates need heals and refuse to ever get in your LOS, that's their fault.
man what a good guide, if only I knew that positioning better would mean i died less.
im gonna also say us shot callers have a huge advantage, people will always tell you oh worry about your Positioning or do this and that. They try and take a aspect of the game they don't have, or weaponize it against you, or maybe just mimic and pariot the things big streamers tell them. I went into a game today where I lost simply because I forgot to charge my headphones and my sojourn pushed up last fight and the rest of my team was in coms but I couldn't hear anything. The fact people can play like this just so they won't be roasted eludes me. Knowing that my team had a plan, a strategy, and me being on one if the most impactful roles had no idea what was going on I felt lost.
All the people complaining about there teammates doing this and that and making there lives more difficult, it's not like I don't get those 2 and to no surprise it's usually people out of voice chat, or the people who are "playing with there groups" hosting comp plat+ or whatever.
For those of you complaining about your teams position as you have vs muted, or you only stay in group chat it is 100% your fault if you lose. Because someone on your team might have a plan, a idea, they might want follow up, or they might want you to do a "Huge play" or combo ults.
Join voice, listen to the shot callers, or shot call your damn self, because I guarantee if there is someone on the enemy team sweating there ass off in VC and your the lost puppy on your team, your gonna lose.
How do I submit a replay? Thank you if any response!
Why im bad is simple none of the supports really hit the fun factor for me so i have no motivation to really sit down and learn
It isn't fun because you're bad, not the other way around.
@@devilleknievel2144 nah none of the kits never hit that fun factor but if you wanna believe that thats fine im not gonna sit here and have a pissing match have a good day be safe
@@BigZaddyYumYum Minus a few, support has some of the most exotic kits in the game. Pretty safe to say the only reason you don't enjoy it is because you don't do well. And not because you're fundamentally bad, but because you don't play it the way it should be played.
Just saying, not worth commenting how fun something is if it's not even worth your time to try be decent at it.
@@BigZaddyYumYum luckily you also don’t have to ever play support unless you’re an open queue fan (and even there it’s optional)
So basically be perfect and ur good. Thx. That in itself is the issue… that it seems like nowadays you literally have to be mistake free and have to put in considerably more effort than the other roles just to stay alive while still doing ur job and being flamed by your teammates. It’s no wonder I’m not having fun in the role anymore or why the queue time is instant…
Rant aside, there were some useful tips, and my positioning has definitely improved but I’m missing that spark that made me actually enjoy being a support main
enjoying 5v5... haha i dont know why support main let damage playes get away with removing a whole as tank.. then again most support player and cucks for damages players.
"everyone else is running around with passives of their own"
Hanzo: 👁👄👁
Here's one of the issues that wasn't really addressed here. What do you do when the enemy flankers decide to just live in your backline? No amount of cover or positioning is going to keep a Genji off you. Sure, you can ask for help from the rest of the team, but that's a toss up whether or not you get it. I don't like that flankers basically have no deterrent for hard diving a backline anymore.
Take mL7's advice: be stingy with your own resources and save them for yourself. Say you're playing Ana and a Genji or Tracer or even a dps Moira keeps chasing you around even in cover, save your nade and your dart for your own use. This way, you can flip the fight to your advantage and get a pick, or at least survive long enough to deter the flanker or grant you enough time to get to teammates to help you. Eventually, as you continue to practice and play, you'll learn the skills and confidence to take the duel (this separates good supports from great supports). But until that time, learn to maximize your own survivability. You can't support if you're dead. As mL7 said, if you're the last man to die on your team as a support, you've done your job. Btw, good positioning is a dynamic thing. You may find a seemingly godlike position that's difficult to assail and easy to hold, but too far away from teammates and without an exit route (exit strategy is also another important factor to keep in mind in the possibility that a teamfight may be lost), then your position is worthless. Playing supports is a complex but highly rewarding thing (getting picks on your own and dumpstering a damage or tank is empowering). Keep watching guides, watch how other streamers play, develop your own tactics as you assimilate information and practice your mechanical skills. We'll all get there.
That's kind of the point of using corners outlined here. By putting yourself all the way to the back, divers have to cover a lot of distance to properly set up and go in. Most players won't do this right and just shotgun their cooldowns to go in. You can also force them to do that by poking them. Ana and Zen both are very good on long sightlines because most flankers won't be at full health to take you on which is important for breakpoints.
It's much harder when it's a tank/dps dive and you're definitely going to die but you can still try to land your cooldowns so that you hopefully trade something for your life.
As a flank dps and dive tank player, my advice is just remember that your positioning IS what determines where your team's backline is. If you're too close, you're gonna get run over when your tank backs up, and if you're too far away, you're isolated and easy to pick off. The hardest thing for flankers and dive tanks is when you're spaced so that the healers can support each other without being in the same danger zone. Force the enemy to use cooldowns just to get to you and they have considerably less time and resources to pressure you before leaving. Think of it as having the magic ability to force enemy players to use their cooldowns just by using your WASD keys. ;)
As a support, you know well enough that you're a prime target to kill. So, here are some of the basics to survive. 1) Know what can and cannot instantly kill you -- Notice a Widow or Hanzo sniping from long range? Play a bit further back and close to cover. Break sightlines often. Learn to quickscope to provide healing and damage while exposing youself for the briefest window of time. If you see that there are no players that can kill you in one hit, you can play a little bit more freely and more in the open and take chancier shots. 2) Be a tempting but difficult target to kill -- I quote mL7 again, "Be juicy." Your presence as a support alone can be a lure for the enemies to burn precious resources to get to you. Even if you die, your sacrifice won't be in vain as the enemy team no longer would have the resources like HP, ammunition, cooldowns, or even ults to bail themselves out of the fight. 3) Learn to take the duel -- back in OW1, the presence of double shields made many players complacent, and many supports adapted a healbot playstyle. This can no longer apply in OW2. It will take time and practice, but actually contributing to the fight is a must-know skill. 4) Learn when to switch -- If all else fails, remember that you're not locked in to one hero. You're free to switch. Survive first. You can't deal damage or heal when you're always constantly waiting to respawn.
very good guide even if i dont play support its good to know how i should play off supports
Dude, the train them like a dog line had me rolling bro, I honestly wish my team could see how many player saves I had that game. To show hey I'm trying to do my damn job but I can't help if you want to try and pick a fight ie 1v4 and complain cuz I didn't heal you.
A non important detail i noticed first playing this map. Paraiso and Rialto are in 2 different parts of the overwatch world correct? Why do they have the exact same rails?
One thing that I feel like a lot of killers have a problem with is prioritizing heals if you have 1 healer focus on the 2 DPS I'm 1 healer focused on your only tank It makes your job a lot easier And stop using nano The tank
I like and would like more tactical style videos of ow2. Using your, flats and emongg streams, videos and advice since ow2 launched I've been able to climb my tank from bronze 5 to gold 4. I won't say I deserve better because I don't, I still make plenty of mistakes but I fought for these ranks and because of positioning and switching tanks for a more advantages tank battle I've been able to rank up. I cant aim so I do play alot of rien. But I can track so I play zar when I can (vs dva) for example. And even though I can't aim my hook accuracy with hog is 55%-65% per game which given tank match ups helps our team win the overall fight even if I die after a pick or 2. The only times I lose as tank is when my dps/supports have worse aim than me. Strangely enough on support I have pretty good aim and positioning and play how you described it this video but my tank/dps position so poorly and aim so bad it's hard for me to rank up. I play alot of Ana and scoped Accuracy around 49%-62% and sleep dart accuracy around 40%-55%. Avg healing per 10 is around 8k avg deaths per 10 around 3. I'm silver 3 support mind you. Playing support in these lower ranks your team can really hold you back even if you play better than enemy supports. But I don't think I deserve higher just yet because if I was say a diamond 3 Ana I could carry in silver. Anyways thanks for the vid and keep more of these like this coming. Edit: also more people should watch educational overwatch videos like this because oh my lord you won't believe how many times I've been told on support "you're not healing enough" and they not understand I can't heal them enough ever when they face tank a bastion lol
I wonder what would happen if Overwatch were to replace the one POTG with a top 3 plays highlight reel? Just very briefly show the first two without the highlight intro, then put the focus on the top “play of the game” like usual. If done correctly, it could be a nice compromise between support players wanting more recognition and said plays not being very flashy without needlessly extending the time between matches.
went into ranked today (gold 2 currently) keeping these tips in mind. spent my first 2 matchs sitting around waiting for my team to regroup as they kept feeding themselves into the enemy 1 by 1 spamming "I need healing". Said to myself "fuck it i'm not dying with those idiots". only have 3-4 full 5v5 team fights per game (2 of those being the initial fight at the start of each round).
Full description of what I go through during most matches as a gold 4 Ana player.
They next step in your progression is to now learn how to be a threat yourself from those positions. If your team is constantly making the same mistakes over and over again, use that information to your advantage. If you are willing to let them die for their mistakes, you might as well use them as bait to get some picks yourself! Step 1 is learning how to stop contributig to the problem. Step 2 is then learning how to contribute towards being an effective threat yourself.
It's amazing how many people seem to have forgotten how to play the game between OW1 and OW2. The game lost 1 tank, but for some reason everyone seems to think they need to fill the space with their own squishy body.
Or how to shoot a pharah. Everybody knew to shoot her down in OW1 and now everyone goes pikachu face when they see a pharah in OW2
Need to make your videos a requirement to watch before unlocking comp 😂😂
I am not struggling with survivability. Infact this is the most slippery we have ever been! The problem is, since there are barely any sheilds, everyone is just taking too much burst damage. we can not out heal poor positioning of our team mates
Corners, corners and more corners.
I'm on my way to Diamond for the first time ever. Hope I can make it. Already on Plat 1. Was low plat in OW1. Let's go.
This is great, but the problem is, my teammates are still expecting me to heal them like they used to get in OW1. Letting them die leads to getting flamed, which I don’t enjoy.
Sometimes it feels like they want even MORE healing (like: beeing BULLETPROOF/INVINCIBLE) than in OW1 as they take more dmg than in OW1...
I can have almost 2x the healing of EVERY other healer in the match with suicidal dps and still get "OUR HEAL IS CRAP!!11!11!"
...and then players are grumpy/surprised that there are so few people even WILLING to be healers.
Everyone is playing support wrong except me.
Also damage.
And tank.
When people realize that natural cover doesn’t break, the game will be much better.
You should make a counter pick guide. The dva sigma thing at the end made me think a guide would be great
Counter picks are a thing of the past. You simply avoid taking the fight as DVa and kill their backline. Sigma then has to save a rock to stop you so you avoid that and you continue with the plan. Remember that armor mitigates damage by 30% so the hyperspheres will be doing next to no damage on you while you can just unload on an enemy support and DM/fly out in a few seconds.
Treat this more like a fighting game and analyze your win conditions when playing tanks.
@@GaussianEntity so playing phara into a Widowmaker is optimal then. No need to switch. Gotcha.
@@askers_ If you're not flying around like an idiot, then it's playable. There's a guy in the top 500 who plays Pharah exclusively. Try again.
@@GaussianEntity funny enough Pharahs who play through a good hit scan dps in quick play alot tend to have more effective positning along with being able to focus dps heros first effectively. Counter picking is slightly meaningful but a good pharah would know to blow up the hit scan first then go after the others. not to mention getting hidden angles from flying HIgh high up where dps most likely arent looking during a heated struggle. people who pick pharah purely to counterpick or siwtch off her to pick somehting else don't learn anything expert with her.
@@keonkla Good comment. Counterpicks can be useful but most players don't play at a level where they can do something especially right now when most of the tanks were reworked and the matchups aren't nearly the same as in OW1. Dps counterpicks are mostly a matter of spending time on a character but if you don't have it, then countering is pointless.
See when you're in gold and you position well meanwhile your team stands in the open and gets slaughtered then I get
"Healer diff" or "do your job"
And if you ask them to even slightly hang back, you immidiately get flamed for being a whiner
I’m going to try to play bap like how you did on eichenwalde , I do try to save my teammates all the time and always pay for it ( I’m still in gold)
Just be aware that in low rank this Playstyle will lead to probably pretty quickly losing points 1 and 2 on payload maps as you watch your out of place teammates repeatedly feed from your position of safety. Until you reach point 3 where they're forced into your LOS for you to keep them alive.
Wild watching a Sojourn mostly hitting her targets and hear him say her aim is bad. I need to quit this game.
Don't quit, 1. He's on PC, 2. He has been in nearly every rank in OW1 and can compare averages, 3. The sad truth is anybody below Diamond is Trash in the eyes of OW RUclipsrs
Please don't quit or get discouraged, I've been in Silver/Gold since Season 3 and I've got about the same aim as that Sojourn but I also have a job/car/girlfriend/other games I play so I can't train like I used to when I was unemployed Raiding everyday in Destiny 1
To add onto the first comment, players tend to call sojourn in particular not good if you are not hitting the charged railgun shots. If you’re just hitting the regular primary fire, some teammates won’t like it.
@@Falloutx360a That's fair. I'm not hitting either, haha.
Yeah my positioning had gotten loads better as well as my survivability and skill usage. But how do I get my teammates to stop running in alone or my roadhog to stop flanking?
If your tank goes on mad flanks and you can't follow, just ping them like Freedo mentioned and wait for them to peek back. It's not your job to follow them just because they think it's a good idea. Tanks are also pretty durable so unless it's a 3v1 or worse, they should survive.
In the beginning with baptiste, there was no point in lamping or bursting, she was bubbled and his primary is more than enough if you make direct hits. He died not only because of his positioning, but because he used 2 life saving abilities for no reason.
Step 1: Find a great coverage healing spot
Step 2: Tank suddenly pushes forward around a corner into a 1v5 for no reason and dies
Step 3: "heals??????"