You are spot-on with identifying the components that go toward developing accurate subdivision. It's something that I have also been working on for a few years, ever since I heard Benny Greb talk about displaced click & gap click. My personal take on this, is that it's vitally important to work at slow tempos (sometimes starting around 40 bpm). Working on the hypothesis, "If you can't make it sound good at slow tempos, it won't help to speed it up" has proven to be a game-changer for me. It seems to me that the biggest mistake a drummer can make is to push the tempo before they have a solid command of the musicality of what they are practicing. So, I find myself examining every motion to be sure it is the most efficient I can make it (looks elegant & feels fluid), every note placement to be sure it is accurate, and the dynamics (or touch) of everything I hit to make sure they reflect the music. Increasing the tempo before I've satisfied all of these conditions usually does more harm than good. Please keep doing what you're doing, because your videos always get me thinking.
Ive been starting by using a consistent tempo at the default 130. I never play to a metronome below 90. Thanks to your advice, im going to start at 40.
What you really saying is everyone should be able to play thrash metal. Let me explain. In thrash and hardcore punk the drums usually have this fast double time rhythm, when you have a loud snare drum on every even 8th note/16th note. It makes the music energetic, but it also might confuse unfamiliar listeners, let alone players (Metallica's "Fight fire with fire" plays around with this confusion). When I learned to hear the downbeat the proper way and don't get confused, it really made my time better, like you said. So yeah - everyone should go listen to some off beat stuff🤘👍
Totally agree that this stuff makes all the difference. Subdivisions, micro time, whilst it can be super boring to practise it is so important. I have my own practise method for this stuff, the important thing is to take timekeeping seriously and inspect yourself often - there is slow motion video on phones nowadays, just saying…..
Great video! Jeff Porcaro was the first drummer I remember talking about putting the click on the off-beat. He felt you were less likely to “follow” the click, which is true.
Nate you're absolutely correct. During my pandemic practice I was able to focus on some things I wanted to do for decades, since the 70s, but with life being what it is, it took something of this magnitude to slow life down. I also battled a long bout with shingles for several months and couldn't sit at a kit till I began to heal so there was plenty of time to reflect on what I wanted to do to rebuild myself after all those years of playing backbeat music. I desperately needed to get back into re-developing my Jazz chops since I'm getting up there in age. During my reflection period I started to write down the most important tenets of drumming that I needed to focus on. I created a sign that I hung in my practice space to reinforce what I believe is number one on that list that reads, "If it's not on the grid, it's just slop." I had been thinking about lessons learned from my teachers and band directors when I was in school as a kid. One thing that kept coming up in rehearsals was the idea of subdivisions. One thing I remember that was quite profound was a statement one of them made about not just being aware of the notes we play and their placement within the subdivision, but the rests and the space between the notes as well. In practice, this begins with playing something agonizingly slow so you not only perceive all of the notes, rests and spaces but you can better focus on the physical motions that enable you to properly place the notes you play. Developing that is what's helped me develop a better feel and control over everything I play. I can still remember my wind ensemble director screaming at the woodwinds, "SUB-DI-VIDE DAMMIT!!!" It was funny at the time but he got results. He would work individually with kids and get them to achieve that awareness and in a short time that wind ensemble became a juggernaut.
...great lesson Nate ! That one question I still have (not sure if this was answered already) but especially for 16th off beats: How do you quickly slip into that ? I thought about some sort of "word game mnemonic" that might help to switch into it immediately...any Idea ? BTW I practice that by shifting the 16th off beat forth and back e.g. any other bar (may be not so good to build consistency)...also a nice challenge (but here slower temps and still always in a 1e&ah-approach...) Best, M
Did you get a new camera? The video looks amazing! Been using your clickideas almost always since I came across your Channel. Btw. Back in the old days you Hader this pdf called the roadmap with a beatconcept you called heuristic beat. Do you still have a notation for this one?
I liked this format. I'm still very much a beginner but I get more instruction (and also less distraction) from these meta-lessons than some of the other more basic YOU HAVE TO TRY THIS SIMPLE TRICK type RUclips lessons from other channels.
Speaking of evolution them ears are coming along dawg! #realmeangrapple #wecantellifwewouldbeatyouupbylookingatyourears lol crazy hashtags I know. Idk if you care or not but head gear is also a good idea those AirPods may not fit forever lol
I uploaded a video about subdivision recently- specifically I tried indicating the subdivisions subtly with the kick drum. Often we use the hats or ride, ghost notes etc to indicate the subdivision but anytime we play anything smaller than quarter notes, subdivisions can be experienced.
Merci, Nate pour le rappel à l’ordre 🙂 il y a longtemps que je suis convaincu de la véracité de ce que tu expliques. J’ai fait beaucoup de progrès en ce sens en suivant le “coaching course”. Mark Kelso propose une approche similaire. Continue à faire ce que tu fais 😎
As a drummer can you dance? You should be able to get down and funny on da dance floor. If you can’t I ask why. They dance to you and should be able to.
Nate what metronome are you using that allows you to have a clear downbeat then offbeats for the 16ths and 8ths? (As opposed to just shifting where you hear the downbeat with your mind if that makes sense) This is something I’ve been working on a few years now and it would be cool if there’s a metronome that allows even more complex variations of which offbeats are heard. By the way you’re killing it with the improvisation! Your longer phrasing and overall sound have skyrocketed in these years I’ve been enjoying your channel!
I was allowed to play at volume 1 recently. P=1 volume was the default level the entire gig. Maybe the band reached volume 5 about 5 total minutes. So relaxed and comfortable…thanks guitar player..
I’ve started noticing too that if I practice macro time at a given bpm first (say, 4th quarter only at 110bpm for 10min) that actually makes the 110 16th offs go a lot better because a lot of times I can hear the subdivisions fine but I’m speeding up or slowing down when things get complicated
Hi I have no idea what you are talking about what is the odd the beat or the metronome? Is this music or a maths lesson, life is full of serious stuff let's have some fun
Nate, thanks for the study guide. I have one suggestion to make it even better. Include a transcript or a more specific example of what to practice. It's pretty much impossible to capture what Nate Smith, Ash Sloan or Dana Hawkins are playing. are playing. As it is, the study guide doesn't provide anymore information than your video does.
i should do my exercise on the e-bass, learning harmonics and playing some stuff in different keys... now im watching how to be a serious drummer! i know how to set my priorities!
This is a good and interesting way to talk about the concept of subdividing. While it's all semantics, I come at it from the "empty space" perspective instead of the "filled space" perspective...if that makes sense. These days, everyone is so set on filling every gap with a note(s) that I feel we're overlooking the importance of silence or breathing room between notes. Again, an awareness of subdivision from either perspective leads to the same goal. I'm inclined to believe that feeling and listening to a space first is maybe a bit more eye-opening than filling a space with sound. To be completely candid, I just think that sitting out a half/quarter/eighth/sixteenth note can open your eye to just how much space there actually is AS YOU APPROACH THE TARGET BEAT...usually beat 1 of the next bar. When I get students to listen for that kind of stuff, you can see the light bulbs go on when they "see" how everyone tends to beat 1...or drag to beat 1 if the lick is beyond their capabilities. Anyhoo, this is a great topic, man. Good one!
I dig it. I practice with a metronome on the beat on a semi regular basis. Over the years it hard helped my time A LOT. I read a while back to try beats on off beats as you describe. I tried it once and was clueless on how to make it work. But you did a great demonstration on how to start. I'm gonna start playing with off beat 8ths tonight! Thank you so much. Oh, and your kit sounds nice as does your playing..
i always start going down these paths and end up in completely different musical destinations (playing fours with my hands and threes - or sixes - with my feet) lol but i'm learning
What am I programming the metronome to to do this? Maybe it’s just the app I’m using but mine keeps accenting the first off beat rather than that marker at 1 he seems to have programmed in, so mines just glorified 8th notes. Is there a better app or am I missing something
I've been crashing myself through metronome work since my last recording - as I started practicing a new hand technique and didn't realize I started subconciously applying it at all tempos, though it's only supposed to happen at higher tempos. I work with 16th notes on the metronome - with all notes clicking - it leaves no room for pushing and pulling. I know at some point I'm going to have to get move away from it, so this lesson will absolute be a god-sent.
Thanks for bringing this into my focus again. I knew about it, practiced its little bit aaaand let it slide like always. But I am now in a spot where the tight playing has become soooo much more important and my practice routine has changed greatly for the better. So it's time to hop on the train to Metronome-Offbeat-City again and practice that shit. I am soooo tempted to start with the offbeat 16th notes but I know I have to work through the 8ths first. Thanks again for the inspiration !
I call it time travel. The faster you play and practice, the easier it is to focus on the beats you want to play. It gives you time to choose your lick and opens a world of improvisations for you.
I always felt like I had an advantage when I first started playing drums because of the years I spent playing guitar beforehand. Now I understand exactly why that is, I had put a lot of practice into lead guitar playing which also requires you to have a good grasp on subdivisions so when I got on the kit my mind already had that concept drilled into it.
Thanks for this, Nate. The absolutely MOST challenging thing about 80/20 drumming stuff (for me, anyway) is the 16th note offbeat metronome practice. Try as I might, I always revert to the downbeat. This lesson gives this fool a way into the technique!! Also thanks for saying “it takes years” - because it does. Cheers!
Great! When “improvising” around the drums, do you follow a certain sticking in your mind and just play it on different subdivisions with accents here and there
very deep question. When I improvise I don't "think" at all. I just kind of "hear" phrases, in much the same way that when you speak you're not thinking "verb, preposition", you're just making thoughts. I've worked for decades to make the patterns and sticking ingrained so I don't have to think about them. What I often recommend to beginners is that they start improvising with *simple* ideas, while they're working on those stickings and combos. (There are also some ways to "half improvise" with stickings you're learning, like making combinations between two). Over the years, the stickings should start to come out subconsciously without you having to think about it.
I took some lessons with Jacob Evans at some point and he stressed on the importance of first identifying at which tempo your perception of the 16th off beat is failing. He asked me to take a relatively low tempo (like 60bpm) and make the metronome play 8th notes and then try to "sing" the 16th off beat. If it was too fast for me, slowing down and if it was too easy, speed up until I would reach the point where I would start to feel it was beginning to fail. That tempo would be my base line to start working on it and then increase by 5bpm every week. And I think it's brilliant because it kind of stressed the psychological side of it without involving the coordination side of the instrument to figure out how to start. It also allowed me to eliminate that intermediate step of trying to hear those upbeat. Just my 2 cents.
Any tips on how to set up the accents on a metronome to facilitate this sort of practice? I can’t seem to get accents on off beats at all using the metronomes I have…
This is great stuff. I need a better system for working on this. IDK if you'll agree but another maybe less focused way to hone that perception is to listen to, record yourself, and play along to tracks with the drums of someone who has good subdivision time. that way when you flam on their hits you know you're off. you can also listen back and hear where it doesn't feel right.
A very counter-intuitive tip for better time is to hold your sticks a bit tighter, because once you fully master how to hold the sticks properly, the looseness of the sticks can make the link between your hands and the thing you are hitting a bit weaker.
If you want to be a "serious drummer" maybe? If you want to be a serious musician, nonsense! You've just stated that that a long list of "serious" professional drummers aren't serious drummers. Example, Bonham. It was no secret for his entire career he was almost always behind the beat. Sometimes way behind. Put some Zeppelin in a program some time, put it in click time and listen to how dead and uneventful it sounds. More important than subdivisions is learning how to listen and play with those you are playing with. Know what the music your playing calls for. If it's strict time keeping, do it but if not you have to be able to play that also. How many of the jazz greats were ahead of the beat?
so you're saying that because some players played intentionally "funky" or "wabi sabi" they didn't have control over their subdivisions? Are you saying that any training to gain better control will necessarily result in flat, quantized playing? If that's the case, we should be able to take a kid off the street, show him some bonham, then he should be able to do it, right? Because more practice makes you flatter and worse?
@@8020drummer I had to take some time to think about how to respond to this. I don't think you read what I wrote. I said play or practice with a metronome but you also have to be able to play without one. That's not an opinion. It's a fact. Changing the tempo, up or down and at what rate is notated in charts along with what emotion or attitude to play with. Emotion and attitude defines the dynamics of how you play and use the entire space of a given note or what you call subdivisions. Think of grace notes in free space as an example of this. There was a time when teachers also taught how to use what you have learned while playing music. This just scratches the surface (like stretching and squeezing time) of this but just as over time rhythm patterns are recognized and don't need to be counted because you feel them the same feel applies to much more than subdivisions. Relying on a metronome hinders that learning. A serious drummer knows when to and when not to use one.
This training method really is one of the greatest excercises that has transformed my drumming into a better direction. Still loong way to go, but its a great exercise.
Thanks for the knowledge Nate. I wanted to ask, where do you feel the 1 when playing stuff like that. Do you feel the 1 on the groove you play and the metronome displaced, or the metronome on the 1 and the groove displaced?
Accept your way to play. Don't imitate all the time what other people play,cause they are imitating someone else too. Accept what you are and how you feel it. Stop imitation. "Art begins where the imitation stops"
"accept the way YOU want to fly an airbus a350. Don't learn what other people do with the switches and gauges. Just feel it bro. Accept the way YOU want to do martial arts. If keeping your hands down and getting punched in the face is your happy place, follow your bliss broooo. Accept the way YOU want to practice law. Sod learning about the constitution. That's just imitating others."
You can't teach feel! This is a worthless approach. The best way to get better groove is to play to music that you like. Or play with musicians that have groove better then yours. This lame ass approach will get you nowhere. Put some headphones on and groove to a song play it over and over till your in the pocket.This guy need to go play in a band and groove. Forget about the chops! Go PLay billy jean for 50 times a day. I wanna hear this dude play in a band.
@@8020drummer If you want to know if you're grooving, Go play live. Learn how to play a shuffle, Most funk grooves are based around the arch of a shuffle. I think that's what you're trying to achieve to be a funky drummer. Can you clap your hands and make people dance? How about playing a tambourine, can you play a tambourine and make a groove? Learn how to clap your hands on two and four and make it groove. It's not that complicated, But the sad fact is if you don't have rhythm, you just don't have rhythm. This analytical approach that you're trying to teach people is really wasting their time. Trying to think your way into a groove!! I do agree you can get better at grooving. But you have to feel it. Dance to music feel it, Don't put a goddamn metronome and think about the space in between your notes. And then sit there and ask yourself the same time and my grooving?? A metronome has its place. But it's not to teach feel. You're teaching these people think. They're going to get up on the stage and start playing a groove and be thinking about subdivisions. You're teaching these people the wrong stuff. Clap your hands. Once you can feel it you can play it. Put on sign sealed delivered by Stevie Wonder. Clap your hands to it and dance to it. If you can't feel it you're never going to play it! And you're never going to make people dance to it if you can't feel it. And sitting there practicing to a metronome talking about subdivisions is never going to get it buddy! You're trying to teach people how to think. The last thing you want to do when you're out playing music and start thinking. You need to feel! Post a video of you playing live in a blues or funk band.
It’s always funny to me how bad good drummers are at sounding like bad drummers.
They aren't as used to playing like a bad drummer as bad drummers (like myself atm) 😂
@@HiFisch94lol same here my impression of a bad drummer is spot on 😂
If I'm good at anything at all, it's sounding like a bad drummer.
Hahah. That is so true. It's a mad skill good drummers can't mimic.
Yes
You are spot-on with identifying the components that go toward developing accurate subdivision. It's something that I have also been working on for a few years, ever since I heard Benny Greb talk about displaced click & gap click. My personal take on this, is that it's vitally important to work at slow tempos (sometimes starting around 40 bpm). Working on the hypothesis, "If you can't make it sound good at slow tempos, it won't help to speed it up" has proven to be a game-changer for me. It seems to me that the biggest mistake a drummer can make is to push the tempo before they have a solid command of the musicality of what they are practicing. So, I find myself examining every motion to be sure it is the most efficient I can make it (looks elegant & feels fluid), every note placement to be sure it is accurate, and the dynamics (or touch) of everything I hit to make sure they reflect the music. Increasing the tempo before I've satisfied all of these conditions usually does more harm than good. Please keep doing what you're doing, because your videos always get me thinking.
Perfect, slow tempos will built yourself more precise, speed will come naturally working loose and breathing etc etc
Ive been starting by using a consistent tempo at the default 130. I never play to a metronome below 90. Thanks to your advice, im going to start at 40.
What you really saying is everyone should be able to play thrash metal. Let me explain.
In thrash and hardcore punk the drums usually have this fast double time rhythm, when you have a loud snare drum on every even 8th note/16th note. It makes the music energetic, but it also might confuse unfamiliar listeners, let alone players (Metallica's "Fight fire with fire" plays around with this confusion).
When I learned to hear the downbeat the proper way and don't get confused, it really made my time better, like you said. So yeah - everyone should go listen to some off beat stuff🤘👍
"Not to be autistic" 8:28
Uhh, wtf? What is that even supposed to mean? 😂
This is the wrong video for me... I wanted to be a comical drummer, not serious drummer.
Frankly, this is useless advice. Don't waste your time trying to figure this out. There are better things to do.
Totally agree that this stuff makes all the difference. Subdivisions, micro time, whilst it can be super boring to practise it is so important. I have my own practise method for this stuff, the important thing is to take timekeeping seriously and inspect yourself often - there is slow motion video on phones nowadays, just saying…..
there are people who think subdivision is boring?
Great video! Jeff Porcaro was the first drummer I remember talking about putting the click on the off-beat. He felt you were less likely to “follow” the click, which is true.
This is what I want my drum teacher to go over with me. Great vid, I believe most high level teachers teach this
Nate you're absolutely correct. During my pandemic practice I was able to focus on some things I wanted to do for decades, since the 70s, but with life being what it is, it took something of this magnitude to slow life down. I also battled a long bout with shingles for several months and couldn't sit at a kit till I began to heal so there was plenty of time to reflect on what I wanted to do to rebuild myself after all those years of playing backbeat music. I desperately needed to get back into re-developing my Jazz chops since I'm getting up there in age. During my reflection period I started to write down the most important tenets of drumming that I needed to focus on. I created a sign that I hung in my practice space to reinforce what I believe is number one on that list that reads, "If it's not on the grid, it's just slop." I had been thinking about lessons learned from my teachers and band directors when I was in school as a kid. One thing that kept coming up in rehearsals was the idea of subdivisions. One thing I remember that was quite profound was a statement one of them made about not just being aware of the notes we play and their placement within the subdivision, but the rests and the space between the notes as well. In practice, this begins with playing something agonizingly slow so you not only perceive all of the notes, rests and spaces but you can better focus on the physical motions that enable you to properly place the notes you play. Developing that is what's helped me develop a better feel and control over everything I play. I can still remember my wind ensemble director screaming at the woodwinds, "SUB-DI-VIDE DAMMIT!!!" It was funny at the time but he got results. He would work individually with kids and get them to achieve that awareness and in a short time that wind ensemble became a juggernaut.
Hats off to you man! Sixteenth note.off beat click at 160!!!! That's sick! And improvising on the set with that!!!!!! 😯🔥🥁🎶 Doing that is too much!!!!!
Man I’ve been working on this on and off for 5+ years…you sound 🔥locking in at 160 damn!
The Shaggs just called. you got the gig! :D
...great lesson Nate ! That one question I still have (not sure if this was answered already) but especially for 16th off beats: How do you quickly slip into that ? I thought about some sort of "word game mnemonic" that might help to switch into it immediately...any Idea ? BTW I practice that by shifting the 16th off beat forth and back e.g. any other bar (may be not so good to build consistency)...also a nice challenge (but here slower temps and still always in a 1e&ah-approach...) Best, M
Not to be autistic? @8:30.
You all have your fun at 140-160 bpm. I’ll be over here struggling with 50 bpm.
Did you get a new camera? The video looks amazing! Been using your clickideas almost always since I came across your Channel. Btw. Back in the old days you Hader this pdf called the roadmap with a beatconcept you called heuristic beat. Do you still have a notation for this one?
I liked this format. I'm still very much a beginner but I get more instruction (and also less distraction) from these meta-lessons than some of the other more basic YOU HAVE TO TRY THIS SIMPLE TRICK type RUclips lessons from other channels.
Speaking of evolution them ears are coming along dawg! #realmeangrapple #wecantellifwewouldbeatyouupbylookingatyourears lol crazy hashtags I know. Idk if you care or not but head gear is also a good idea those AirPods may not fit forever lol
yeah I practice to a click.....but not like this. watta eye AND ear opener . THX Nate!
I'd like to see a video on more of a "Should I dance or not?" concept. More of a grey area, like is it interesting or boring.
I've coached a guitar player about the importance of subdivisions, will send the link to him.
Good material 😁
I uploaded a video about subdivision recently- specifically I tried indicating the subdivisions subtly with the kick drum. Often we use the hats or ride, ghost notes etc to indicate the subdivision but anytime we play anything smaller than quarter notes, subdivisions can be experienced.
This is singularly the most enlightening video on metronome use and sub divisions I've ever seen.
The best way to be a serious drummer is simple: Never smile. Ever.
Merci, Nate pour le rappel à l’ordre 🙂 il y a longtemps que je suis convaincu de la véracité de ce que tu expliques. J’ai fait beaucoup de progrès en ce sens en suivant le “coaching course”. Mark Kelso propose une approche similaire. Continue à faire ce que tu fais 😎
Really enjoyed this lesson. I’ve been wanting to use my metronome in more creative ways. Just wasn’t sure what to do. And now I do.
why accent the first of every four metroneome beats?
This channel has helped me to upgrade my drum skills from neofit to beginner
proof ud need God to pull a pat martino on you to sound bad when ur this good 😂
I’m using the iPhone metronome app from Soundbrenner and having a hard time getting it to play a 16th note offbeat.. any advice? Is it just my ears?
Put it on 8ths and hear it as 16th offbeats 😉
As a drummer can you dance? You should be able to get down and funny on da dance floor. If you can’t I ask why. They dance to you and should be able to.
#clipme
Nate what metronome are you using that allows you to have a clear downbeat then offbeats for the 16ths and 8ths? (As opposed to just shifting where you hear the downbeat with your mind if that makes sense) This is something I’ve been working on a few years now and it would be cool if there’s a metronome that allows even more complex variations of which offbeats are heard.
By the way you’re killing it with the improvisation! Your longer phrasing and overall sound have skyrocketed in these years I’ve been enjoying your channel!
I just use 8ths then hear them as 16th offbeats
I was allowed to play at volume 1 recently. P=1 volume was the default level the entire gig. Maybe the band reached volume 5 about 5 total minutes. So relaxed and comfortable…thanks guitar player..
Great documentation of the process for ear training/metronome training here 👌🏽
162 bpm 16th off? I’m still struggling with 110 🥺
I’ve started noticing too that if I practice macro time at a given bpm first (say, 4th quarter only at 110bpm for 10min) that actually makes the 110 16th offs go a lot better because a lot of times I can hear the subdivisions fine but I’m speeding up or slowing down when things get complicated
every time your video starts my pavlova dog instinct expects the fuckin wire hahahah
Thanks Nate, great lesson.
Hi I have no idea what you are talking about what is the odd the beat or the metronome? Is this music or a maths lesson, life is full of serious stuff let's have some fun
why is tackling challenges and getting better not fun?
Nate, thanks for the study guide. I have one suggestion to make it even better. Include a transcript or a more specific example of what to practice. It's pretty much impossible to capture what Nate Smith, Ash Sloan or Dana Hawkins are playing. are playing. As it is, the study guide doesn't provide anymore information than your video does.
Nate: Can you share what you are using for your metronome program? Love your stuff!
Free iPhone app called tempo
i should do my exercise on the e-bass, learning harmonics and playing some stuff in different keys... now im watching how to be a serious drummer! i know how to set my priorities!
wow, only great artists can imitate bad performing so precise.. thanks, that was very beneficial!
Being a "time artist"
This is a good and interesting way to talk about the concept of subdividing. While it's all semantics, I come at it from the "empty space" perspective instead of the "filled space" perspective...if that makes sense. These days, everyone is so set on filling every gap with a note(s) that I feel we're overlooking the importance of silence or breathing room between notes. Again, an awareness of subdivision from either perspective leads to the same goal. I'm inclined to believe that feeling and listening to a space first is maybe a bit more eye-opening than filling a space with sound. To be completely candid, I just think that sitting out a half/quarter/eighth/sixteenth note can open your eye to just how much space there actually is AS YOU APPROACH THE TARGET BEAT...usually beat 1 of the next bar.
When I get students to listen for that kind of stuff, you can see the light bulbs go on when they "see" how everyone tends to beat 1...or drag to beat 1 if the lick is beyond their capabilities.
Anyhoo, this is a great topic, man. Good one!
Precission(?) and dinamics are the keys change my mind... So finding ways to develop those is crutial, yo, good vid dude
I dig it. I practice with a metronome on the beat on a semi regular basis. Over the years it hard helped my time A LOT. I read a while back to try beats on off beats as you describe.
I tried it once and was clueless on how to make it work. But you did a great demonstration on how to start. I'm gonna start playing with off beat 8ths tonight!
Thank you so much.
Oh, and your kit sounds nice as does your playing..
Ecstasy fueled trust funder 😅 that’s who I’m playing for
There is nothing funnier than watching you trying to play with crappy sub-divsion. Nice vid!
i always start going down these paths and end up in completely different musical destinations (playing fours with my hands and threes - or sixes - with my feet) lol but i'm learning
Amazing, greetings from Tampa Bay Florida.
what's a good metronome for this? Is there a good one for IOS ( apple devices)?
What am I programming the metronome to to do this? Maybe it’s just the app I’m using but mine keeps accenting the first off beat rather than that marker at 1 he seems to have programmed in, so mines just glorified 8th notes. Is there a better app or am I missing something
I've been crashing myself through metronome work since my last recording - as I started practicing a new hand technique and didn't realize I started subconciously applying it at all tempos, though it's only supposed to happen at higher tempos.
I work with 16th notes on the metronome - with all notes clicking - it leaves no room for pushing and pulling. I know at some point I'm going to have to get move away from it, so this lesson will absolute be a god-sent.
Thanks for bringing this into my focus again. I knew about it, practiced its little bit aaaand let it slide like always. But I am now in a spot where the tight playing has become soooo much more important and my practice routine has changed greatly for the better. So it's time to hop on the train to Metronome-Offbeat-City again and practice that shit. I am soooo tempted to start with the offbeat 16th notes but I know I have to work through the 8ths first.
Thanks again for the inspiration !
I call it time travel. The faster you play and practice, the easier it is to focus on the beats you want to play. It gives you time to choose your lick and opens a world of improvisations for you.
I always felt like I had an advantage when I first started playing drums because of the years I spent playing guitar beforehand. Now I understand exactly why that is, I had put a lot of practice into lead guitar playing which also requires you to have a good grasp on subdivisions so when I got on the kit my mind already had that concept drilled into it.
Have you made this cat person analogy before? 😂
!00%👍
amazing video man. i’ve worked on this bunch but i clearly have a ways to go.
Thanks for this, Nate. The absolutely MOST challenging thing about 80/20 drumming stuff (for me, anyway) is the 16th note offbeat metronome practice. Try as I might, I always revert to the downbeat. This lesson gives this fool a way into the technique!! Also thanks for saying “it takes years” - because it does. Cheers!
What would be useful is Nate number 1 step was showing to set the metronome at 16th note offbeat and not assume every watcher will know this
I want to be a session drummer in studio sessions pop/rock hit song and so on. What do you find important? Is subdivisions a must then?
I would like to have a copy of this sub division lesson Thanks
Great! When “improvising” around the drums, do you follow a certain sticking in your mind and just play it on different subdivisions with accents here and there
very deep question. When I improvise I don't "think" at all. I just kind of "hear" phrases, in much the same way that when you speak you're not thinking "verb, preposition", you're just making thoughts. I've worked for decades to make the patterns and sticking ingrained so I don't have to think about them. What I often recommend to beginners is that they start improvising with *simple* ideas, while they're working on those stickings and combos. (There are also some ways to "half improvise" with stickings you're learning, like making combinations between two). Over the years, the stickings should start to come out subconsciously without you having to think about it.
As soon as he played kaytranada I subscribed
What band is the prog jazz? "Arthur with t grime" is what I'm hearing... help me out!
Tigran
Great lessons
I need more
Let’s get it crackin
I took some lessons with Jacob Evans at some point and he stressed on the importance of first identifying at which tempo your perception of the 16th off beat is failing. He asked me to take a relatively low tempo (like 60bpm) and make the metronome play 8th notes and then try to "sing" the 16th off beat. If it was too fast for me, slowing down and if it was too easy, speed up until I would reach the point where I would start to feel it was beginning to fail. That tempo would be my base line to start working on it and then increase by 5bpm every week. And I think it's brilliant because it kind of stressed the psychological side of it without involving the coordination side of the instrument to figure out how to start. It also allowed me to eliminate that intermediate step of trying to hear those upbeat. Just my 2 cents.
yea APB. Jacob and I coached a program together for most of 2022. I continue to think he's one of the best teachers.
Nate serious question. Can you dance? Lovely vid
Serious answer. Yes.
Any tips on how to set up the accents on a metronome to facilitate this sort of practice? I can’t seem to get accents on off beats at all using the metronomes I have…
yup. Just put them on downbeats or 8th notes, and hear them as 8th or 16th offbeats ;)
Very good. I will subscribe now.
I wish I had met someone like you much earlier on in my journey.
I wonder if ERIC MOORE uses a metronome
Lines on a tape
measure. I call it a drummers CLOCK. Grebb is Really Good at this.
This is great stuff. I need a better system for working on this. IDK if you'll agree but another maybe less focused way to hone that perception is to listen to, record yourself, and play along to tracks with the drums of someone who has good subdivision time. that way when you flam on their hits you know you're off. you can also listen back and hear where it doesn't feel right.
Yes that’s also good
Always cogent and down-to-Earth advice!
Yeah, I started on this shit thank you , but it's seems a bit difficult you, and a serious amount of practicingsomething
I mean....🤷♂️🤷♂️
As always its great to see a Master play! You are a funny dude to!
Thanks I am off to practice this on the bass guitar
A very counter-intuitive tip for better time is to hold your sticks a bit tighter, because once you fully master how to hold the sticks properly, the looseness of the sticks can make the link between your hands and the thing you are hitting a bit weaker.
I can't tell if you're trolling
13:28 did you eclipse the click damn
The Kettle and Fire T shirt is apropos seeing how most drummers work in the food service industry...
Their broth is really good
Can u get a metronome on an android phone somehow?
agree 100%, gonna to have to keep your videos to the practice room front now on. please less cat sounds 😅
Fewer than one every 3 years? Wow this guy is a dog guy I guess 😅
5:16 Who is this guy?
ruclips.net/video/IW7vT3y1tfg/видео.htmlsi=fn3Ogr-S_F_Awn8v
If you want to be a "serious drummer" maybe? If you want to be a serious musician, nonsense! You've just stated that that a long list of "serious" professional drummers aren't serious drummers. Example, Bonham. It was no secret for his entire career he was almost always behind the beat. Sometimes way behind. Put some Zeppelin in a program some time, put it in click time and listen to how dead and uneventful it sounds. More important than subdivisions is learning how to listen and play with those you are playing with. Know what the music your playing calls for. If it's strict time keeping, do it but if not you have to be able to play that also. How many of the jazz greats were ahead of the beat?
so you're saying that because some players played intentionally "funky" or "wabi sabi" they didn't have control over their subdivisions? Are you saying that any training to gain better control will necessarily result in flat, quantized playing? If that's the case, we should be able to take a kid off the street, show him some bonham, then he should be able to do it, right? Because more practice makes you flatter and worse?
@@8020drummer I had to take some time to think about how to respond to this. I don't think you read what I wrote. I said play or practice with a metronome but you also have to be able to play without one. That's not an opinion. It's a fact. Changing the tempo, up or down and at what rate is notated in charts along with what emotion or attitude to play with. Emotion and attitude defines the dynamics of how you play and use the entire space of a given note or what you call subdivisions. Think of grace notes in free space as an example of this. There was a time when teachers also taught how to use what you have learned while playing music. This just scratches the surface (like stretching and squeezing time) of this but just as over time rhythm patterns are recognized and don't need to be counted because you feel them the same feel applies to much more than subdivisions. Relying on a metronome hinders that learning. A serious drummer knows when to and when not to use one.
so to get good at sub division u dont run through ur subdivisons using every sticking ... nah gap click.. lolz.. ok..
you made a good point - incorporated into my practice routine.
Loved it!! Thanks bro
The link doesn’t work for me
What metronome app do you use?
Excellent. It’s funny how you often explain things we all can feel but cannot articulate in words. Thanks so much.
This training method really is one of the greatest excercises that has transformed my drumming into a better direction. Still loong way to go, but its a great exercise.
How explain how you do the exercise and how it transformed your playing?
@@luceanbrown8264 I started to play with the offset klick, and my playing has just been going tighter since that. simply but
Thanks for the knowledge Nate. I wanted to ask, where do you feel the 1 when playing stuff like that. Do you feel the 1 on the groove you play and the metronome displaced, or the metronome on the 1 and the groove displaced?
the former, but I think (?) I made that clear in the video (?) but maybe not...
@@8020drummer Thanks you!
6:40 save your time!
Accept your way to play. Don't imitate all the time what other people play,cause they are imitating someone else too. Accept what you are and how you feel it. Stop imitation. "Art begins where the imitation stops"
"accept the way YOU want to fly an airbus a350. Don't learn what other people do with the switches and gauges. Just feel it bro. Accept the way YOU want to do martial arts. If keeping your hands down and getting punched in the face is your happy place, follow your bliss broooo. Accept the way YOU want to practice law. Sod learning about the constitution. That's just imitating others."
@@8020drummer Funny, but seems you're on the wrong way still :)
Loved it, thank you!🙏🏽
Nice 🤙
I feel like a beginner again 🤣
this is the only thing im good at
You can't teach feel! This is a worthless approach. The best way to get better groove is to play to music that you like. Or play with musicians that have groove better then yours. This lame ass approach will get you nowhere. Put some headphones on and groove to a song play it over and over till your in the pocket.This guy need to go play in a band and groove. Forget about the chops! Go PLay billy jean for 50 times a day. I wanna hear this dude play in a band.
@@kevinminor2558 that’s going in the scrapbook
@@8020drummer If you want to know if you're grooving, Go play live. Learn how to play a shuffle, Most funk grooves are based around the arch of a shuffle. I think that's what you're trying to achieve to be a funky drummer. Can you clap your hands and make people dance? How about playing a tambourine, can you play a tambourine and make a groove? Learn how to clap your hands on two and four and make it groove.
It's not that complicated, But the sad fact is if you don't have rhythm, you just don't have rhythm. This analytical approach that you're trying to teach people is really wasting their time. Trying to think your way into a groove!!
I do agree you can get better at grooving.
But you have to feel it.
Dance to music feel it, Don't put a goddamn metronome and think about the space in between your notes. And then sit there and ask yourself the same time and my grooving?? A metronome has its place. But it's not to teach feel.
You're teaching these people think.
They're going to get up on the stage and start playing a groove and be thinking about subdivisions.
You're teaching these people the wrong stuff.
Clap your hands.
Once you can feel it you can play it.
Put on sign sealed delivered by Stevie Wonder.
Clap your hands to it and dance to it.
If you can't feel it you're never going to play it!
And you're never going to make people dance to it if you can't feel it.
And sitting there practicing to a metronome talking about subdivisions is never going to get it buddy! You're trying to teach people how to think. The last thing you want to do when you're out playing music and start thinking.
You need to feel!
Post a video of you playing live in a blues or funk band.
@@kevinminor2558 you first
@@8020drummer ruclips.net/video/Bo3yDNLHrio/видео.htmlfeature=shared
@@8020drummer here I posted a video playing with Dwayne Dopsie and the zydeco hellraisers. Live on wwoz radio.