NEW Interview: Michael Miller of Remnant Radio IHOPKC, Spiritual Abuse, Matthew 18 and Honor Culture
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- Опубликовано: 9 мар 2024
- Welcome to our podcast! Christina and Blaise are committed to speaking truth with passion and compassion while being down to earth and just normal people that value Jesus first and our marriage and kiddos. Currently covering the IHOPKC and Mike Bickle investigation as Blaise spent 4.5 years leading and working there.
In today's episode we interview Michael Miller of the @TheRemnantRadio podcast. Michael is the Senior Pastor of Reclamation Church in Colorado and hosts the Remnant Radio.
Links and Articles from Michael Miller and Remnant Radio on Spiritual Abuse or Toxic Leadership:
theremnantradio.com/the-sign-...
theremnantradio.com/seven-yel...
theremnantradio.com/identifyi...
theremnantradio.com/power-and...
theremnantradio.com/poison-in...
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Music by K.I.P. Music open.spotify.com/track/2pr6qu...
This convo was huge win for the Body of Christ…I wonder if the Pharisees thought Jesus was “just bitter” when He was flipping tables!
Good one!
Convo?!!!!! Stop you millennials!!!! And these guys are all NAR!!!!
@@mikemuncy7464
Says you,
You didn’t bother listening otherwise you would know they are against the NAR.
This abuse does not just happen in charismatic churches!
@@cathykay4913I’m sure but most of these stories seem to be coming from tue charismatics. The numbers don’t lie.
Toxic systems always protect the abuser.
Toxic systems facilitate abuse and enable it.
Thank you for this honest dialogue. I am a 60 year old woman, and have been having this conversation with my husband about the charismatic church structure for years. You are basically told to put your brain on a shelf.
Thankfully not all charismatic churches are like this… but my heart feels for these victims. My advice is for these women to go directly to the police if a crime is committed against them… period. It is because I saw these type of situations happening that I left the church for 10 years, but I never left my relationship with Jesus. 💚🙌🏻🙌🏻
I’m 62 I Atlanta
Been out of prophetic churches for a few years
Can’t believe I ever even visited
61, and from a charismatic background, UK. Yes, I remember us being told "don't think", but inferring to go with our heart, and the Spirit. But I'm certain we are meant to use out minds, our cognitive abilities, because we are created with this, and it's for a reason. The quoting Scripture such as "trust in the Lord with all your heart, and lean not on your own understanding" could easily be misused, to encourage people not to weigh things up, and to blindly accept anything. And the Bible says we are to "Test everything", so I wonder how they would answer that? I know I keep saying this, but something is VERY wrong...and it seems more evident in many charismatic churches. I'm just glad that some of the major misuses of scripture, and sexual abuses, including pedophilia, is now coming out into the open, and that they just can't hide it like before. People are waking up. And something has to happen...
Re reporting sexual abuse, these people would have a fit if you went to the police, but I think there's no other choice, because they refuse to deal with such situations properly; protecting the perpetrators, and neglecting, even persecuting the victims. At least the police listen and take you seriously. When even your 'friends' in Christ won't lift a finger to help you. Most people deliberately choose to turn the other way, and protect the system. And for that they will be held accountable.......🚨
Yes , however wondering if the police and justice system will also bring justice where it is due. They are also covering up abuse and evil these days.
@@Mojo19693 Maybe the days are coming when it's only God we can go to, directly. I'm sure the authorities do lie and cover things up. There is definitely abuse within those systems. All I can think is that we pray and see how He leads us.
@@susandumbill8805 yes, the last 3 years I've experienced God lead me with his word in a situation where neighbours were threatening and abusive towards myself and others. This was truely an amazing faith growing time.for me, but at times scary. He will protect and guide us and thats better than any police protection.
Just prior to experiencing spiritual abuse at a very small NAR church my family and I were attending, we were told by a leader to read The Bait of Satan, The Tale of Three Kings, and Rick Joyner’s There were two trees in the garden. I realized at some point later on he was trying to keep us quiet about problems we had uncovered. We knew about some of it but gave time and mercy for it to be corrected and it only got worse, which resulted in them gaslighting us and telling us we were gossiping and lying about what we saw. Holy Spirit led us out, and then we heard Michael Miller’s story on Remnant Radio. It sounded so much like our own and I am so thankful he shared it! We didn’t know what NAR even was until we heard Michael’s story and it all made sense. It was amazing how all this happened with IHOPKC directly after we left that church. I could see the parallels so clearly. Thank you all for doing what you have been doing in these horribly messy situations by helping the confusion lift for those like us who have been through it also.
Yeah those books were assigned to us as "homework" when I was in YWAM
That Bait of Satan book had a valid message that has been twisted into an excuse for cover-up and silence on abuse! I was in an abusive church back when, and oh yeah…every pastor wanted to promote the book to safeguard their own agenda, and to silence truth!
And also there is another book by John Bevere, the name is "Under cover". I have seen people who were told by the church leaders to read these books so they would understand better the authority dynamics and press down all their pain and hurt. The victim is gaslighted to think that he or she is the problem and must set their hearts straight.
My pastor had me read that when I was 15🤦♀️
@@rachaelcheek4131 Unreal 🤦🏼♂️ Just ridiculous
For all the victims thank you for boldly speaking truth!!!
Michael Miller you probably wouldn’t remember me. My name is Connie. I was part of the gathering church in Kansas years ago. I haven’t been back to any church since I left there I was so deeply wounded. It took me a couple of years to heal, and I had to go through it all alone. I watched other people being spiritually abused by the leaders, who, according to scripture, should not have been leading anything. scripture is clear about putting a novice in the pulpit. My sister and her family were part of IHOP for 10 or 11 years and walking through this with her has just been so hard. I Gained a lot of insight because of what I went through personally. It’s interesting to hear you talk now you seem so mature and have gone through so much yourself. This is such a good enlightening conversation. Thank you both for this!
Mike Miller and Blaise did you never think Mike Bickle wasn't Mormon come out of the Mormon movement sounds like the sky sounds like Jeffers you know all the defilement of women also Rick Joyner anybody tied in with Rick Joyner and bethel or Satanist that the Satanist put them in play have you ever thought to look at that it's in a book by Dane Phillips and John Scura?
So awesome to hear and see Michael Miller add his voice to this wonderful young couple that I personally discovered many months ago!
This guy said that Mike Bickle is a pedophile and i was shocked. Because we dont say that in charismatic churches. We say he made a mistake, dont judge him, pray for him etc. THANK YOU SIR for speaking truth. You give me hope.
There is sin but some sins are illegal.
WHAT??? I have never read in God's word about if you are a charismatic church you stay away from the word sin! God's word says to snatch your brother from the fire sin to save his life. What Bible are you using?
What do you mean by sin is illegal?
If you really realize what MB has done you won’t second guess to call him a pedophile and some more… Also he doesn’t want to save himself it is very clear how can you snatch him from fire?? What he has done and caused is NOT a mistake. Scripture is not meant to be used out of context please…!
@@hopekathrynperley Criminal.
Elitism is the spirit that birthed IHOP .I told Mike at the beginning
Nail on the head! I worked with someone who graduated from ihopu and PRIDE was the main thing they carried.... heartbreaking. I think they changed for the better since leaving but it was sad to see that over and over again
Amen
How about the NWO put them in play to suck out your brains time and money?
Fear of “touching the Lords anointed” trained me to ignore my gut instinct. After a couple decades it turns out my gut instinct (or God given discernment) was right.
MB didn’t just “start” clamping down and abuse people… he started out that way in ministry… with his own grand desires and dreams of fantastical grandeur to make his name as great as Moses and David -
My father knew Mike early in 80’s long before ihopkc, and my father heard these very words from Mike and informed me… the words were confirmed now by others who have quoted Mike from early in his “ministry work” which reveals a heart of selfish ambition, pride, vain pursuits and need for control, affirmation, and followers who affirm, love and adore Mike with no question or doubting.
Excited to see remnant radio and wake up and win collaborate!
While smart for (not-so)Remnant Radio to redeem their public image like this - it is NOT smart or wise for Wake Up and Win to to collaborate with them on any project. RR are both hucksters, simon's and spiritual harlots, prostituting the Word of God to make a name for themselves while platform some god-awful heretics. Please do not tarnish you outstanding name and reputation W&W.
So helpful. I have a close friend who replays in her mind, the SA she has experienced from multiple men. When justice is not served, victims cannot find healing.
Hey guys thank you so much for speaking out and FINALLY exposing this dangerous movement for what it is. I've been praying for my brother's and sisters in Christ to come out of this movement and get back to the simplicity of the gospel. I'm so sorry for what you both have gone through in this deceptive movement. Praise Jesus that He got you guys out.
Spiritual Abuse books referenced: 11:20
1. The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse - David Johnson
2. Bully Pulpit - Michael Kruger
I discovered the first book just a few months ago, id say its the best one there is. Currently reading the second one and its really good indeed! Highly recommended for people who are victims of spiritual abuse or who want to help victims of spiritual abuse.
Also good books "Something's Not Right by Wade Mullen" and "A Church Called Tov by Scot McKnight"
They’re amazing books!
When David fled from Saul he went to the priest and told him all that Saul was doing and had done. If you want to see what a narcissist in power looks like, study Saul.
Thank you for helping people heal spiritually and mentally !!!
Thank you for mentioning DARVO! deflect and reverse victim and offender. Coined by professor from U of O ❤
This would have helped so much when I was a Christian. I'm so glad to hear these things being said now. I hope this way of thinking pacts the entire church not just a few niche evangelicals. 'i felt every call that wasnt made' thats powerful
Great discussion. THank you. There is another category beside that of widow and divorcee--the never married woman (and not that they chose to stay single).
Thanks for bringing it up. Many Churches do not want single women - especially older single women.
It is a rare church that makes a place for divorced women.
61, and always been single. Here in the UK there are more single christian women than single christian men, so it's not always done out of choice. And yet women like me are seen and treated as very low down the hierarchy, and definitely feel of lesser value. A very lonely and isolated existence. Some married christian couples are advised not to be very socially involved with us, to safeguard their marriages. There must be some very insecure wives out there. So sad, because so many of us really do value the marriage covenant, and are not husband -seducers, or husband -stealers. And yet we're treated as if we are. We're forced out to the outer edges of churches, and it can get very lonely. So wrong. So VERY wrong. 🚨🚨🚨
My problem with the Baptist denomination...they follow maybe 50% of what is written in the Bible. They don't cast demons out of people. They follow the 'religion of being married.' They are convinced that once they are married and have children that 'they have arrived' and have to be oh-so-patient with the rest of us. There are negative family generational behavior patterns that get learned, then passed down. Jesus has helped me for 35 years to unlearn the ugly atheist behavior patterns that were deeply ingrained in me once I separated from my atheist family.
You both might want to check out the ACE meta study done by Kaiser Permanente in the late 90s. One of the MDs involved in the study did one single thing and saw ER visits by their patients drop by a huge number. All they did was ask on the annual questionnaire was "have you ever expected verbal, physical or SA?" Most of the women only needed to have their abuse acknowledged to feel much better. Obviously a lot will still need therapy, but it was amazing how just being heard changed things for them. As a survivor of childhood SA I thought your conversation was amazing. Keep on holding the line. Bickle should be in jail. Probably won't happen. Love you and your wife Blaise.
Yes!!
The true prophetic word for the church is mutual accountability. One-sided accountability is slavery! We are to be accountable, one to another in love, regardless of title or position. I will, if you will- I will be as accountable to you, as you are willing to be to me!
❤
You are all bringing to much truth and revelation to these issues!!! This wisdom is from above...
Michael, you were awesome! Thank you. So glad you came on this show. Great conversation.
I’d love to see you guys do something like a “deconstruction and reconstruction” of IHOPKC and its teachings.
This issue is leaving so many dealing with doubt. How do we take the good from IHOPKC, the things that were based in scripture and wisely divide what was based in narcissism, deception, lust, controlling, uncompassionate ways of treating people and what is godly, biblical, proactive and holy sexuality, compassionate church culture.
As one who was raised on IHOPKC teachings, I want to have a path forward. I want to not be swimming in unclear good and bad. Of course I have scripture and the Holy Spirit but I think you have insight to give direction and how NOT to model them and WHAT IS OK to model off of them. Or interview someone who does have insight… Michael Roundtree or Joel Richardson maybe?
We all know it wasn’t all bad. There are things that are good and we need your help clearly dividing that.
It would be a tragedy to reject Jesus himself, fervent prayer, fear of God, the life of David and intimacy with God for example. I was already wary of prophetic because I have seen up close men be cruel even though they operate in the gifts.
All of those things feel tainted by this monster because they were taught by him… I would love and I think we need a clear dividing of good from these teachings.
The wounds gets ripped open by the the church. Victims get re traumatized. So the wound can’t heal. It’s so painful that’s why many victims give up. Because the abuser and enablers keep ripping open their wounds.
Imagine you had a heart operation and every day someone will rip the wound open. Imagine the pain. That’s how unbearable the pain is for victims to be not believed and to see the abuser becomes the victim and the true victim becomes the villain.
I wish Utube would have been available 45 years ago when the same thing happened in my church. Many people along with myself are still unable to get any restoration or healing from the trauma. Just had a conversation with a best friend who was in the same church.. she was friends with the leadership and babysat their kids..45 years later and she still can’t understand the abuse I suffered there. Just attended a conference with many people including leaders from the old church. It was said from the pulpit that the Former SA, abusive pastor was now in heaven and although he had had a “Ministry Failure” he was covered and now perfect in the eyes of God. Someone came up afterwards to the leader that said this and asked him what was going to be done for all the people this Pastor had destroyed…he was immediately silenced and we were all told how inappropriate he was after all these years.. yep terrified to even hope to find a safe person to talk to after that…I have story upon story of being re traumatized for reaching out for help over the years. Small town Pastors following these large churches are practicing the same teachings.
Thank you for understanding trauma and the fear it brings
Miller - what you are saying is so important!!!!
I appreciate these conversations. Thanks for doing this. I’m praying it brings massive reformation in the church.
One thing I’d add- a victim actually *should not* meet alone with the perpetrator- especially in the case of SA . (Vs “they shouldn’t have to”). It’s putting them in danger and like you said, the very idea of it is asinine.
Thank you so much for having this conversation
You guys are amazing! I’ve been through much and you get it! So awesome hearing what I’ve been saying for years!
Just want to add my thank you for speaking out. I to was a whistle blower. Sweeping things under the rug and not fixing the problem is a common ailment of the church.
Alot of this goes back to NAR (New Apostolic Reformation) teaching. Counterfit Kingdom by Holly Pivec and Douglas Geivett goes into depth on it, and they try their best to convey that NAR is different then traditional Pentecostalism or Charismatic (AoG) denominations. It's narcissism mixed with New Age in the case of IHOP and possibly Bethel as well. Be watchful, it's going into all types of churches (denominations) and causing great damage tearing them apart. And the easiest way to open up the door to NAR is through music. I wish it wasn't so, but I've seen it.
Please correct me if I'm wrong but I have the impression that what brought Bethel to fame was not the preaching of Bill Johnson but rather than music just like Hillsong rose to fame not through the preaching of Brian Houston but through the music.
Thank you both. This is so well fleshed out. It makes sense of so many things from 30 years of church life. Thank you. 🙏🏻
Your description helped me look back and see where spiritual abuse was taking place in my life. I knew I was treated badly. But your descriptions brought it into sharp focus. Thank you!
Thank you for the understanding on ad hominy (?) arguments.
Being imperfect does not nullify truthful accusations of abuse.
It makes sense that a victim is going to be absolutely imperfect because of the abuse suffered.
April 15, 2024. I have endured so much spiritual abuse over the years I’m scared to go to church anymore.
Thankful for this conversation.
Absolutely brilliant video! Thank you both! There's so much that I could share with you!
Speaking to my heart! Thank you for being the voice of victims! So grateful!
These podcasts have been an eye opener in so many areas.
I appreciate both you guys!
This is such a great and important conversation 👏 thank you!
Agree. This convo is a total WIN for the body of Christ. Thank you for having this conversation and posting for people to learn from. So sad it takes these extreme measures for these works of darkness to finally be exposed but I’ll take it.
29:45. “This teaches people that when they have been sinned against that it’s their problem”. so other words this is a prime way to get beat down in a church environment
Such a good podcast. Thank you thank you!! I was almost in tears hearing Michael Miller talk about Deuteronomy. God is so good!
Incredible. Thank you so much.
Sorry for another Comment. But some hopefully helpful suggestions:
1. If a pastor/elder/other asks you something about someone else, just respond with "Why don't you ask them?" Or "That was told me in confidence. I don't feel at liberty to repeat it".
2. If you're employed by the church/ministry/organization, if possible try to have plenty of money put aside to cover rent/mortgage etc, so that if the worse happened (if they sack you, or drive you out) you will have less stress, be able to pay such expenses hopefully, and a little more time to find another job.
3. Find and maintain friends, acquaintances elsewhere, in other churches, also in other States, other countries even. So if church leadership/others get heavy/abusive with you, there are people you can turn to for support and prayer.
4. Have a life outside of your church; hobbies, interests etc. If anything goes seriously wrong in your church, if you have a life outside of it you will hopefully be less dependent on it/them.
I made the mistake of virtually living for one church I was with, and when it got heavy, controlling etc I was devastated. I don't think I'll ever trust a pastor or church fully ever again. Believe me, the less control they have of you the better. We're supposed to be living for God and reaching others, not satisfying megalomaniac leaders, whoever or wherever they are.
Yesss such a balance needed during this time!!!
This was a great interview. Helpful and instructive. Thank you Miller for expressing anger and appropriate emotions for the lies, manipulation, spiritual abuse, sa and all the other sins by those in power against people. And for discussing the misuse of scripture. We, the body of Christ really need to learn these truths. Again, great, great interview.
My favorite crossover episode ever!
Blessings to all.
THANK YOU SO ....VERY ...MUCH ...GENTLEMEN!
Thank you both ........... I Bless Ye ☘
Thank you for saying truth!!! Name sin for what it is!!
There are No Words for my Thankfulness & bravery of you all speaking up. This is the most dangerous & scary thing for someone to do. People who have not delt with this, Have No Idea.
The only time it’s the Accuser of the Brethren is valid, is when accusations are FALSE and intended for harm.
Wow!
Great respect for you, Mr. Miller.
Thank you!
OMG. Did he just mention “ The Tale of Three Kings”? I’ve had this book for like over twenty years…Trash can here we go again!!!
This was a great interview! Thank you so much! I have a story about my son and his wife they were terribly abused by a leader! I could write a book about it! In the end the lead pastor and elders stepped in not at their request he was put on sabbatical but he could not conform to their solution so he left! Their church is doing well now and so are they! Blessings
Thanks, please keep sharing and exposing evil.
Just occurred to me…. Look at the word NARcissist
You and Cristina as well as Remnant Radio have dealt with this crisis better than any other...So many folks commentating on this crisis would have done so much better had they taken Remnant Radios initial advice on the matter...
Thank you, Brothers 🌹⭐🔥⭐🌹
Smart man, thank you Michael.
100% agree truth needs to be spoken and dealt with in love and justice, the two woemen example was absolutely right on thankyou for sharing, it is biblical .
This is most amazing. Very good work here.
This was such a powerful video! Truth to lies.
Thank you for sharing, there is some very insightful things in this video .
Bravo!
Michael Miller you are spot on!
Great word
There is a lot of wisdom in what Michael shares here. I have been a victim of a kind of spiritual abuse in the church (not SA), but I believe many of these truths can be applied to other kinds of spiritual abuse. I'm hoping that the books Michael recommended can be applied broadly to other kinds of church abuse as well.
I think one has to set personal boundaries and not compromise, no matter what, or who gets upset. Personal boundaries are the only way to stay safe in any relationship with anyone, even church. It's the only way to protect ourselves from abuse of any kind. We are warned to protect our hearts, and this is the way to do it. About Matthew 18, just means you bring two people to witness the confrontation, not that two or more people have to witness the person doing something wrong in order to be valid.
You mentioned a remnant radio study guide on spiritual abuse. where can I find this?
So good! I would have liked it to go on for longer! 😊
This us so well done! In love, but time for sheep to find the Good Shepard✝️
Wow awesome podcast
Miller never disappoints. A true pastor’s heart.
Phineas is my favorite and most typifies the zeal of Christ. Phineas captured the honor of God, and He would keep using him.
Thank you Beloved servants of Jesus Christ .for speaking on this topic.Personal for me being thru lots of the Revival movements .I would alwaysgo back to Gods Holy word..hear what Holy Spirit are saying..and folow for myself not to be hooked in...Cov was my cleaninsing proces ..HolySpirit took me deep..❤Praying for bride of Christ daily come to Godly Repentance and Holiness.❤
Wanna say, Michael Miller, from HSRM, 2024 Green Lake, wish to comment to you from that.
Blaise, my most passionate heartbreak is for Misty, thanks.
Thank you
Excellent podcast!!!!
Thank you so much for this video! So many important things were addressed here . Rick Joyner infuriates me ….. the reactionary character scripture gaslighting is out of control !!! Love you guys
That’s why Rick calls his podcast Ricks Rant lol
The root of spiritual abuse among charismatics is the widely held conviction that someone with a testimony is superior to one with only a scripture. Anecdotal evidence trumps truth,and the ones with the best stories end up with the mic in their hands. We then idolize them and all manner of abuse follows,and god help the poor soul that can never relieve his doubts.
No excuse for Valloton. Period!!
Great podcast!!!
Franklin Graham wanted the Iranian woman who's husband was imprisoned in iran but was abusive to her to not speak out against what she was enduring because he told her it would weaken her ministry and looks bad on the church
Excellent!
That you both for this discussion. So good and so necessary!
Well done...very enjoyable
The kind of power leadership and misuse of Matt 18 is also a serious issue in conservative denominations, not just charismatic. Thank you for bringing these issues into Light.
For the victims coming out, this will go more towards their healing. The abuse they went through can be used against them as a stumbling block. As Mike Bickle would get back in contact with them over the years, where they would have to relive the abuse. Now coming out they can be healed by the Holy Spirit from the abuse, whether they get a form of justice or not. They also have helped to start bring a end to the abusive IHOPKC and to help others to start healing. I'm all for supporting and praying for the victims.
Great video.
Psalm 55
...and cry aloud: and he shall hear my voice.
God does not want us to be empty headed or empty minded when we pray. He wants us to thoughtfully pray and not with vain repetitions or emptying our minds. He wants us to think about what we say. He wants us to seek him with our whole heart and soul. Talk to him from our heart and mean it.
And in spirit and in truth.
Consider carefully what we say and make our requests know and being respectful and know He hears us when we pray and we do not have to strain.
Psalm 25
4 Shew me thy ways, O Lord; teach me thy paths
Matthew 6:6
But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in Secret;
Psalm 26:2
Examine me, O Lord, and prove me; try my reins and my heart
Psalm 55
17 Evening, and morning, and at noon, will I pray, and cry aloud: and he shall hear my voice.
James 1:5
If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him
Psalm 142:2
I poured out my complaint before him; I shewed before him my trouble.
Jeremiah 17:14
Heal me, O Lord, and I shall be healed; save me, and I shall be saved: for thou art my praise
Psalm 27
8 When thou saidst, Seek ye my face; my heart said unto thee, Thy face, Lord, will I seek.
Psalm 143
9 Deliver me, O Lord, from mine enemies: I flee unto thee to hide me.
Psalm 19:12
Who can understand his errors? cleanse thou me from secret faults
Psalm 26:2
Examine me, O Lord, and prove me; try my reins and my heart
Luke 6:28
Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you
Philippians 4:6
Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God.
Hebrews 4:16
Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need
Psalm 6:2
Have mercy upon me, O Lord; for I am weak: O Lord, heal me; for my bones are vexed
Matthew 6:6
But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret
"Every phone call that never came," wow... I get that.
VERY IMPORTANT That someone should address the false memory syndrome -because some years ago Christian church workers and day care workers were actually put in prison because of false memory S
And was manipulated by parents through children -
Superbly done. My only disappointment was that there were a couple of mentions of placing further information about spiritual abuse in the “show notes” and I can’t see them.
Read more bible...that is where knowledge and truth can be found. Such wisdom guys thank you