How Churches Should Respond to Scandal - Julie Roys | The Roys Report
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- Опубликовано: 28 сен 2024
- The Remnant Radio welcomes Julie Roys of The Roys Report (@JulieRoysReport). In this episode, we’ll explore the systemic nature of abuse in churches and the proper ways for churches to handle scandals when they arise.
We’ll discuss the importance of adhering to Ephesians 5:11: "Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them," and how this scripture should guide our response to misconduct within the church. Julie will share insights on the dangers of honor culture in churches and why it’s crucial to have whistleblower policies and procedures in place to break this cycle.
We’ll also examine why third-party investigations are essential in cases of abuse and scandal. Julie will explain why church elders, staff, or relatives cannot be considered independent investigators due to potential conflicts of interest and biases. She’ll provide practical steps for ensuring transparency and accountability, emphasizing that true reform and restoration can only happen when churches are willing to expose and address wrongdoing without favoritism or cover-ups.
Finally, we'll address what practices and procedures can be established in churches to protect members from abuse. How can a church set itself up so that holiness and integrity are at the root of all activities?
Don’t miss this crucial conversation on how we can protect the integrity of the church and ensure a safe environment for all its members.
Julie Roys is founder and investigative reporter for The Roys Report - a Christian media outlet dedicated to reporting the unvarnished truth within the Christian community to facilitate reform and restoration. You can read The Roys Report here: julieroys.com/
@JulieRoysReport
🌐📧 Visit our Website & Subscribe to our Newsletter: www.theremnant...
Thanks for this. Julie Roys and her scrappy team are a gift to the church. Her closing statement was beautiful: God care's more about justice than about the reputation of his people.
Are her team scrappy? Or quite professional?
@@KJ-lb4tjshe called them scrappy in the interview
Not going to court against a brother was for disputes over a cow or a fence line. It was never intended for sexual abuse of a 12 year old. The father should have called the police. This is so awful. And frankly, Morris was in NO WAY a brother of any kind to the family.
Very inappropriate read of text to support crimes including felonies by and to church members. Abusers have used this verse to stop accountability for perpetrators for years
Yes definitely Cindy 's father as spiritual head of his family , betrayed not only his daughter but he betrayed God by not calling the police. This was and is criminal. He should be humbled to clean toilets with a toothbrush. For 8 hours a daily for community service.
Pedos groom the child’s parents as well as the child to have access to the kids, they are highly manipulative and are overly nice and attentive to get what they want, this is the prey technique. He’s been disqualified years ago!
Also, it wasn't about avoiding _secular_ courts, it was about avoiding openly pagan magistrates who were notoriously corrupt. (Remember the parable of the unjust magistrate who neither feared God nor cared for justice?)
Exactly. Matt. 18:6-10 tells us what Jesus says about what should happen to those who harm children. Romans chapter 13 tells us what God says about His support of civil law. And then there’s Acts 5:29-‘we must obey God rather than men.’. This is why the body of Christ must pay close attention to where corruption in our judicial system can result in criminals being allowed to freely walk our streets. We’re seeing first hand that Robert may not face charges due to SOL-statute of limitations. Imagine if we were still under the old law. When a sin of this magnitude was committed against an innocent person, ‘swift and final’ exercises were ‘required’ of the community regarding the perpetrator-outside the camp-so the camp would not be defiled. Sometimes the whole family of that perpetrator would receive the same end. That’s hard to fathom in this time, when laws lean so far ‘left’, that perps walk and good people suffer. It’s time for God’s people to listen to God, hear His voice, and get involved in spiritual, civil and cultural matters. We’re seeing it really does matter. As we do, we’re not surprised by the current label the left tries to brand us with. The lawless want to continue to revel in their lawlessness and take everyone down into the pit with them.
As a pastor for 38 years, i have a rule to never be alone with a child, teen or a woman. I am accountable to a Deacon board as well. I go through 2 background checks and 2 credit checks yearly. Pastors need to be above reproach !!!!
Right! Thank you 🙏
That's common sense, especially if the child is not your own😮
Amen! 🙏🏻 Wish I could attend your church...
That’s a great rule. However I hope you’re able to do it discreetly unlike a couple pastors I’ve had appointments with. They informed me right off the bat that they can’t be alone with a woman in their office so please come this day or this time etc etc. This of course made me and many other women feel like wonton hussies who might try to attack him if left alone
with him for 5 minutes.. so he had to protect himself from us… or couldn’t control himself!
In other words don’t put it off on innocent women. Make your arrangements discreetly and intelligently..
@@maryestes9584 There are some women out there that are so ugly that nobody could believe that I would have an affair with her. But I guess you cannot tell a woman that it is okay for me to be alone with you because you are too ugly to tempt me. Also I have met women who are so strong that they could beat me up in a fight. I can be alone with them and behave myself.
I was a student in the 80's of a mega evangelist failure - was in the Bible College and in the audience the day of the "confession". It was a crazy experience to be there. No man is so important is above it - God can use any of us and we can be replaced. Prayers for the people in the church.
The guy from Baton Rouge?
Thanks for having Julie Roys on.
Thanks for this podcast. I’ve never heard someone talking that have our service heart. We’ve been excommunicated from a couple of churches for trying to talk about the spiritual abuse in church.
Thank you Julie for saying that THEY SHOULD NEVER LEAD AGAIIN!!!!!
How about we get back to praying and fasting for who needs to be in leadership instead of electing by personality or intellectualism?
🎯
AMEN! I want to be in a church where Jesus is the head, not some well-meaning but woefully inadequate people.
Definitely pray and fast for Leadership Selection. However our Leaders need to be able to exegete and live the word.
Praying and fasting is needed as is proper understanding of the character the Bible emphasises for leaders and pastors. We cannot overlook character that is both evident in church and outside of church, agreed a upon by many people in the community that know them well.
This is the BEST and MOST NEEDED podcast on any and all Christian podcast platforms. Thank you, Remnant Radio. She speaks much needed truth telling all of us to repent and return to the Lord . ...... that's real "prophet talk" right there. Give me this over all the rest of the "prophetic" anytime. 👍🎉🙏.
Nepotism, Hierarchy, Power, Title's, Stages, VIP areas, Green rooms. It's all dung as Paul would say. Thank you Julie for all you do 🙏
💩 💩 💩 😂 yes and amen! Jesus prioritizes victims!
Father, forgive us for prefering the powerful over the weak.
She is right, how can the people not see it!!! They are intentionally in denial!!! So very sad 💔💔💔
Lack of knowledge of The Word and no discernment whatsoever when it comes to the celebrity pastors!!!
As someone said a while ago to me "Whoever said the anointing is transferable?" i.e. from a retired pastor to a son, or son-in-law ?!
All cults work this way, Gateway will keep the book scam going and harvesting 10% of poor people’s income
And to add to that the number that get there by anointing themselves. Ain't how it works either.
Nepotism is alive and well as is big money to be made without needing to do much for it
They operate like kings of their own private kingdom
" The whistleblowers in Scripture were called Prophets' " 😂 Exactly!
💯
Thank you guys for this. Julie, thank you for your courage. My wife and I had worked for an international missions organization where great abuse had gone on behind the scenes. We approached leadership and were threatened. I eventually connected with the Director of Member Care for this organization and was told that I had two choices......give up my job or be quiet and fly under the radar. We chose to quit and then were lied about by the organization so our reputation with all former colleagues and connections were destroyed.
So sorry to hear this. Praying for you
I’m so sorry you and your wife went through that. I also was a part of an international missions group that has a lot of spiritual abuse in it.
VOM?
So glad you got Julie on!
Thank you, Julie. There are so many cases that never hit the headlines and you are a voice for them. God bless you and your work bringing this evil into the light.
I have such a great respect for Julie Roys & her courage to expose the heinous deeds that have been committed & willfully covered up in churches!!
She also exposed John Macarthur who, to my knowledge, has never publically confessed or publically repented of what happened with Eileen Gray & her children, as well as other women!
John Macarthur has covered up horrible abuses of women & children,
but he is still looked up to like some kind of demi-god!! Just sickening….
Amen. And MacArthur has his zealots and defenders who argue because he preaches "sound doctrine" everything else about him is off limits. Well not protecting women and children of abusers is not biblical Christlike behavior. He has made several public disparaging and disrespectful remarks toward Christian women demonstrating he views women as subservient to men, perhaps, second-class.
So the church body needs to expect more from their leadership- that the Bible applies to them - by not going to churches which foster a lack of accountability by being mega churches. I applauded Mat Chandler’s role in having the Village Church go to campuses with their own senior pastor and sermons. Hopefully their own boards, too. Also, have to say I am very tired of seeing the next generation replace their dad as pastor and having every kid on the payroll. God’s church is not the family employer.
You can’t inherit a ministry
Absolutely!
Church is not the family business
I used to attend Mercy Culture for the last 3 years and the lack of accountability is exactly what I've been questioning. Right now, their website lists 3 external people as "Apostolic Elders" (whatever that means) (Dr. Michael Brown etc), dozen plus pastors that I have no idea what or who they oversee, and two internal elders. One of the internal elders is just the lead pastor's best friend.
I just wrote a comment about this church. Red flags for sure… my friends still attend there and I’m just very concerned for them.
@@Mike-q4i Found your comment and after watching their video on NAR, I would agree. But that’s only the beginning of my complaints. They’ve become too busy being political activists that it feels like there is no effort in actually discipling their members.
Perhaps one of the most important episodes ever recorded! Relevant to all of us in the body of Messiah
God bless you Julie!😭 Your passion is felt. We need Christians with this much conscience against abuse. In all honestly, the accomplices have overwhelmed me maybe more than the perpetrators.
This is fabulous in every way. Thank you for covering such a difficult topic.
This may be the best video on the subject that I have ever seen. The unfortunate thing is that the cult of personality is so strong in many churches that it will fall on deaf ears. Both technology and modern corporate organizational structures have allowed "church organizations" to amass both power and money in unprecedented quantities with no real oversight.
This is a very important and necessary conversation, and the church NEEDS to implement absolute objective accountability!!
Thank you for doing this interview. I am glad to know more about Julie Roys.
Best to just throw away the current church system, it barely passes scriptural scrutiny anyway. Get back to simplicity, small groups with elders as equals overseeing to ensure correct doctrine, unity & most importantly equality so we don't get back into this situation with one individual lording over all his brother's & sisters. The days of Pastor's ruling their kingdom needs to come to an end. Authority needs to be taken from King Pastor & given back to Jesus where it belongs. Then watch God's people start to gather again.
I like that. After our church splitter years ago, we met every Sunday for Bible study and fellowship. And on Tuesday for prayers and lunch. It was wonderful. Then we all founded a church to go to. I can say I'll be in so many, it isn't fun. No one cares about the flock anymore. It is about giving and not receiving, ever.
What Julie said about having a man of character on our church and Bible College boards is spot on!
When the man of high character and integrity gets released from a corrupt board, then there is little that can be done. While he is on board, there is a hedge of protection, and proper action can be taken.
And the lesson is .. Stay away from any one man show!
I loved her passion. !!! What an awesome podcast. So glad you guys had her on.
The problems are not within the beautiful believers. As a James 1:26-27 believer ...a voluntary helper and also a voluntary helper on My local Sherrif department victims service unit...Thank s for sharing. ❤😅
julie roys, I’m a fan, what a wordsmith, evangelical industrial complex, that is exactly what this whole thing is, how does it turn into this and what should church look like, that is a topic for another conversation but yes there is definitely a reformation happening and it’s coming from the grass roots level, enjoyed the content and the host you had me cracking up a couple of times with your comments
Please, it would be wonderful a video on "how to protect your heart from becoming bitter".
Forgiveness is the harder thing to do, isn't it? We must forgive. Dive deeply into God's word. Jesus is the healer of the broken-hearted. Praying you experience the Lord's peace and comfort. He understands what it feels like to be betrayed.
@@TheRemnantRadioYes, Jesus was betrayed and abandoned when he was most in need of support! He has been through it all! We have to pray for God to help us forgive, and bring about reforms to prevent abuse.
Also, it is not wise to seek secular counselors, especially for personal issues. I have been to both, a true Christian counselor who was very practical and addressed the spiritual issues of what was driving me. I also went to a counselor who claimed to be a Christian, and there was no addressing my true Condition, and why the damage was done, which was me being enticed by my own lust, rebelling my church counsel and falling into sin. This guy had me sitting in a chair pretending to be a little girl again. Thankfully I only had 1 session with him, a complete waste of time. I learned not to go back to that kind of counselor again.
But what I did was not a crime according to our laws, although it was quite costly for myself and God freed me!
I saw in Julie's anger at the end of the video the power of Jesus' love at the root of His righteous anger. My words are inadequate to express the encounter I had with the depth of Jesus' caring. I SAW Him - not with my eyes but with an understanding of the heart and mind given by the Holy Spirit. He is indeed very beautiful.
I was sexually abused by my Pastor Dad- who has since retired but as YET to REPENT! No body is standing up to him - perhaps because he is elderly and in ill health now. I came out with this allegation 3 decades ago though and still...what's worse is I am demonized and my parents have gotten my siblings to ostracize me as well- all the while saying they must honor their parents. I have made peace with the fact, forgive them often and grieve the loss of this heartbreaking saga- BUT GOD! I've never received and apology -yet- but I am left wondering if it is too late. The abuse began happening around the age of 12 for me as well. I really do hope the Church will STAND UP and uphold all aspects of the Gospel and not just cherry-pick topics and sugar coat darkness!
So sorry to hear what happened to you. Praying for your spiritual and emotional healing.
@@TheRemnantRadio Thank you- God is good! I will say because of this- I was not born-again until I was 51 years old! But GOD! Thank you Jesus!
Excellent! Thank you, very well done. My respect for Julie Roys and all of you at Remnant continues to grow. God bless!
Best!!! Best and most timely podcast ever! Thank you!!!!! Keep it up! All that is necessary for evil to win is for good men to do nothing. Thank you for being good men!
I agree with everything that’s been said. One question I have is how do you find eligible board members that you can trust when starting out? When you start out the people you have on your board are mostly family. Kind of a tricky thing when you don’t have people willing to serve on the board.
There needs to be more godly men who hold spiritual leadership feet to the fire. Each Pastor should be accountable to a few people who pray for them and keep them from making decisions like meeting with women alone, or other compromises that they see. The culture of each church is different and everyone needs to stop hiding their sin and fine trustworthy people to confess their faults to so they can be healed and continue to practice ministry in a healthy manner.
Thank lady and Gents for bringing this to light. I do not agree with all the suggestions for handling these situations but the church and especially leaders need to be held to the highest standards.
Love this smash up!! How fun to see you all together sharing wisdom from learned experiences.
Be Emboldened ministry is especially for those who have experienced church hurt and spiritual abuse.
Thank you for this. Must look them up!
He said he looked for vulnerable girls. Is it possible that he had other victims?
In Proverbs 18 we are told that 'Any story sounds true until someone tells the other side and sets the record straight'. It would be interesting for you all to hear both sides of the story concerning Grace Community Church (John MacArthur) and Ms Roys' accusations. As a lifelong Pentecostal, I'm not carrying water for MacArthur and am genuinely interested in what may or may not have really happened. And I recently read a piece by David Morrill (Protestia website) that disputed Roys' conclusions. I don't know who to believe. It would just be good to hear both sides.
Love Julie Roys and her passion. But I must say, I am a PR person and we don’t all “lie” all the time ☺️ I am also a survivor. Keep up the good work, but take it a little easy on those of us who made our livings in public relations.❤
Repentance!
Great discussion. Good job JR and Remnant.
What is lacking is the Holy Spirit of Truth to reveal the spirit operating. Surely, someone in leadership or the congregation was filled with the Spirit of God with Discernment to reveal this type of behavior. A wolf is a wolf.
Did y'all see Derek Prince's letter from 1990 addressing the Kansas City Fellowship? He calls their prophetic history unscriptural and borderline blasphemous and demands public renouncement.
Edit: I unfortunately made claims about Wimber/Vineyard that can only amount to rumor. I could not substantiate. I'm very sorry about that.. I try to be very careful about that type of thing. Thank you @janets.4384 for the correction.
That's really interesting, I had no idea.
That is very interesting. I didn't know that.
I have the PDF with his signature if anyone wants a copy I can provide my email
Id love to see it. I came out of the Pentecostal denomination.
@braysibley4339 yes I would like a copy of that PDF please.
It would be cool to see a collab episode with both Julie Roys and Scot McKnight on this subject.
I have coveted no man’s silver, or gold, or apparel.
Yea, ye yourselves know, that these hands have ministered unto my necessities, and to them that were with me.
I have shewed you all things, how that so labouring ye ought to support the weak, and to remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he said, It is more blessed to give than to receive. Paul the apostle to the church leaders, Acts 20:33ff.
Yes yes yes and yes!! Love Julie!
Actually,, when the “ two or three witnesses” policy, was utilized as a Jewish law, it referred to witnesses seeing or hearing the event personally. Admittedly, the primary goal of a predictor is secrecy.! Few predators of children are “ caught in the act” ! Let’s get up with the NT times when the whole law is to love and protect…not find a way to excuse the sexual violation of a Little One!!
This was an amazing episode! Thanks guys and Julie
Why hasn’t Julie done more on Pastor Paula White?? Who is investigating Julie?
Can you put the names of the books she mentioned
I disagree with what she says about Biblical counseling, for one thing, we hardly see true Biblical counseling among Christian counselors, or Institutions of higher learning.
Most do not seem to truly lean on God's Word, prayer, and discipline for solutions to live life according to Christ, that "He has given us every thing we need for life and godliness..."
Most lean on pills and pop psychology, even in Christian circles. Very few truly practice that they believe that a person can truly be freed from the strongholds, bondage and spirits of a damaged past.
(II Timothy 1:7)
Step 1: Never rip ‘don’t touch the Lords anointed’, or Matthew 18 out of context again…
AMEN!
We were incensed about the catholic priest cover up. What has come out since then is it is rampant in the protestant church and They are covering it up all over this country. My anger is the cover up. I have been a Christian for 72 years. This garbage is not going to impact my faith in Jesus. Amen the sheep are not very bright. I was a member of Willow Creek with the Bill Hybals scandal. It never ends. Does anyone remember the Billy Graham policy of never being alone with a women and never traveling with a women .
Excellent discussion. I fear for some of the ministries I loosely follow. It's the celebrity component that raises the biggest red flag for me.
Excellent guest! I learned so much. Thank you.
independent investigation also protects the accused from false charges
A little surprised you're having her on. Not sure she's the best person to have on about this, tho I agree this topic should be addressed.
I’d be curious about your thoughts after the interview. Let me know what you think.
Also what is the reason she is not the person?
@@westleybenson1188 she called out John MacArthur probably. That's when the accusations about her started, but the same people accusing her now had no issue when she was reporting on James McDonald and Ravi Zacharias.
@@ericedwards8902 It's not that (for everyone). John MacArthur is no less human than anyone else. I'm no investigator, but there were certain things in the timeline that seemed fishy to me, like why let an abuser back with your kids, that kind of thing, along with the timing that the wife got Grace Comm Church involved. Reportedly, Roys may have had some issues some time back working with youth, namely a teen girl. Abuse needs to be investigated, bottom line. Relationships are complicated, but generally speaking, call the police first, then your pastor if you're going to seek help.
@@westleybenson1188 see my response to Eric
What about the differences in Biblical Justice and Social Justice?
PARENTS teach your children well so they know the dangers.
Its not that the sheep are so dumb, its we the sheep have been groomed. Some of us since birth. When we have called anything out we've been shamed and have left those churches in shame and have had scripture used to guilt and scare us.
True
Truly, I think we need to fully examine how we do “church” in the west. I’m not sure there are any circumstances under which God and Jesus Christ are actually honored in “mega” churches that are more interested in running as a business than the Great Commission, not to mention bowing to government instead of God for 501c3 status. 🙏🏼🙏🏼
I respect and love what she does. And what is being said sounds great...but alot of things do.
Where is the scripture? Our knowledge, understanding, opinions and feeling are as dung. I found myself saying Amen through the video but where is there scripture supporting anything being said. Im not trying to be inconsiderate or disregard that there is a problem within churches. This is a genuine question. Where is the scripture?
For this episode, we focused on Ephesians 5:11: "Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them" and also that church elders should be ‘above reproach’ (1 Tim. 3:2) and accountable to the church-not just themselves (1 Tim 5:19-20).
The mega church is the core of the issue or a church started by a single person supported by the ministry complex.
A megachurch pastor will automatically fail their duty in watching over the souls in their flock.
Not a single one would take the time to meet with a congregant/member.
Keeping the pastor in the unreachable ivory tower will just pave the way for more scandals as they delude themselves into thinking they are untouchable.
Julie explained a great model for accountable pastors, but the standard believer loves their cult of personality.
this gaslighting and excommunication happened in my husbands family's baptist church after the new pastor took over. their family was among those that founded that church many decades ago, but when the new pastor exhibited lying, jezeble type behavior and they started to bring this up in a biblical manner, the way they were ousted and treated by the leadership and the people they'd known for generations was astounding. that "pastor" is no longer there, as people have come out of whatever "spell" they were under to just blindly follow this snake. but wow, the damage thats been done. its terrible. people close the circle and try to protect the ones in perpetual sin instead of holding them to account and coming around those that have been hurt. the lack of integrity is astounding.
We're sorry to hear this.
Wait, what? Everyone knows exactly how much my husband has mad or makes. And where money went where. Further education, if his computer was replaced, books purchased… when we have our annual review and vote on a new budget we got line by line by line. And then have to submit to our district. 🤯Canadian law man. But even, what do you have to hide.
Nope, over here they have jet planes to travel and houses that are bigger than the church. American way!
Catchy title...too unfortunate that it is relevant or necessary.
Looking forward to the insight you are going to share.
💖My suggestion to all Christians: Ask God to show you yourself and your heart. Allow God to work on you. Take your feelings, thoughts, words, and actions to God in prayer. Sift and process them through the Word of God. Let God Have The Final Say! "Judgment must begin at the house of God...the righteous shall scarcely be saved" (1 Peter 4: 17,18). Peter is telling us that the "Church" is going to be judged. And that the "Church" is in trouble.
🙏God, I ask You in Jesus' name to show me myself. God I give You permission to work on me. Sift me through Your Word, change me, prefect me, and conform me into the image of Your son, Jesus Christ. God do the same for the writer of this prayer, all my family, and friends. Bless us with the love, desire, and strength to respect and honor You in our thoughts, words, and actions. Thank You Jesus. Amen, so be it by faith.
“The righteous shall scarcely be saved.” Sobering words!!!
@@flowergirl-pp7vz I know.
Julie should start a school of “the Journalist” - sort like the “school of the Prophets” in the OT😊
I say to all Christians this:
You who are without sin cast the first stone.
This happened some 30 years ago!!!
Robert Morris has repented and confessed his sin and God has forgiven him but not people.
These 'christians' should check their own lives first before throwing stones at others!!!!😮
Thank you. Very valuable info as always.
Morris in his twenties molesting a twelve year old indicates he was not a believer. Once we accept Jesus as our savior the Holy Spirit immediately indwells us. It’s hard to believe the HS was not compelling enough to stop his conduct. It continued for four years yet he was restored in two!? His salvation is questionable. We shall see. C S Lewis said we will be surprised who we see in heaven and who we don’t.
Her last name is Roys.
You lived near Dallas too long (Royce City on I-30)
Thanks - I changed it
If they are a 50lC why isn't there accountability
Remnant radio thank you. The issue with the church is compromise and nepotism... look at Elis sons and Aaron sons and so on... nothing new under....
Did you hear about how Micah wilder of Adam’s road ministry the guy that started it all he was having sexual misconduct pretty much the entire time. He’s another that has wrecked so many in his unrepentant behavior but just kept up the tours and taking donations
And the church is full, no one even thinks critically anymore.
Thank you having Julie, she's amazing! I'm a subscriber of her RUclips and was waiting for her to speak on this. 🩷
When it comes to church scandals Chicago is not that bad compared to Dallas Texas area churches. Only two scandals in Chicago compared to 5 here in Texas! Osteen Copeland, Jakes, Morris and Evans!
One correction i am pretty sure the 95% is with kids and teenagers were the study groups. Not Adults. People extrapolate that out but adults I dont think is as high.
RM's Elder was a retired State Trooper! Ummmm he of ALL peoples would know what RM did is criminal!
What if someone commits a murder in a church, goes to prison, and then sincerely depends and lives for God. Then after many years is released. Should he be allowed to go into Christian ministry or even become a pastor?
Should be 'repent' not 'depend'.
Every situation is different and nuanced. It’s hard to say. Restored before God? Yes. Restored to church leadership? It really depends. Have they shown to be above reproach? Do they have a servant’s heart? Are they concerned about the wellbeing of the flock? Are they humble? Do they regularly exemplify dying to self? These are the questions that all church leaders should be answering.
Where were the parents? So sad
The girl said that her whole family was groomed! Just shows how easily people can be manipulated by smooth talkers, especially when it is “a man of the cloth.” The travesty is seeing how people are making excuses for this man’s behavior, now that it is exposed.
Saying it was a long time ago, and minimizing it. 😞
Spot on!! Great podcast
Awesome content.
If a person cannot talk in toungues ; does that mean that person does not have the Holy Spirit
Good episode and Julie is very impressive and her work is exemplary. The Remnant Radio guys are hard to take serious after their love affair with MB for years. However, credit where credit is due - good job - well done.
Question: Almost every serious business, club, college, university, etc., have established (most have to legally) HR policies that include areas of how to report abuse (of all kinds) and to whom the abuse should be reported. Almost all require and or offer training on how to negotiate these delicate and devastating matters. Yet, oddly enough (but not surprising) churches/christians simply do not know (or act like they do not know) what the best practices (legally/ethically) for this should be in the church. How is it they can claim this level of ignorance? Businesses have been establishing and refining these polices for a long time (and certainly not perfect) - it is not that complicated. Do the two hosts (churches/christians) really not know what churches should have in place around the reporting of abuse? Is there bewilderment around where they could find these policies that exist, right now, across the globe? Lastly - if these "pastors" and churches claim, biblically, that they have the "authority" to build and "lead" "ministries," why is the source of their "authority" (the bible) so inept at also giving basic HR policies that businesses figured out long ago? The bible is an unfelt breeze as it relates to any realistic, real world policy around reporting and stopping terrible abuse.
Ok
Funny you mentioned Mercy Culture, there are definitely some things off there. So many red flags. We looked into joining Mercy Culture, visited a few times because our friends invited us, noticed quickly people there seem to worship their pastor and church like a cult. The pastor seems kind of prideful in his sermons and on his social media posts and if you dare to say something that puts him in a bad light all his followers come at you with so much anger… it’s weird. I do think this church would be classified as NAR, I also think they are about the seven mountain mandate although they don’t say that, you can see it. I was concerned when I found out they had many ties with RM and Gateway and recently learned the elder named in Cindy’s letter of knowing her age is there right now as an apostolic elder at Mercy Culture. I would keep an eye on this church and their housed ministries.
Remove from Minister if restored. David should not have been King. This needs to be discussed further.
David was not a priest or prophet, was he? There was Nathan the prophet, etc., but David was not holding himself out to be a prophet like Elijah. He may have been sanctioned as a leader, but that’s MUCH different than if he had been a religious leader like Nathan or Elijah. For example, as Christians we can vote for Donald Trump. But we’re not saying he should be our Pastor.
What happens to the 5% who make these accusations up? Nothing! And those accusations destroy a persons life and ministry. If we deal with that issue well more than likely solve the trying to cover it up issue.
A child telling her parents in this situation is different - with Robert and Debbie staying there for years. If it is an employee of the church, the church should have HR lead the investigation if they have a trained HR person. If they don’t, they go to an outside group and live with the consequences of the outcome. Recognize in Hybel’s church, an outside lawyer did the first investigation and found nothing. The next allegation brought about Bill’s fall due to the lawyer’s investigation.
Having the correct policies and procedures in place to protect against abuse protects both the victims and the church. Also, this is all the more reason to have an independent third party that is skilled in how to conduct an investigation be brought in. You don't even want the appearance of cover-up. If the leader is innocent, the third party will be an even better resource to prove this.
Julie….the pot calling the kettle black. Does she have a history with a minor?
Was child molestation by "elders" happening in the first century church? If so, how did they handle it? Being that an elder must be beyond reproach, what is the scriptural process for removing elders who are no longer beyond reproach? What should churches do when "sins" are also crimes? Can an elder/pastor be restored to leadership after a moral failure involving sexual sins? Are there examples of such in the New Testament?
Many of these are answered in the show
Looking to how first century people handled these types of things for guidance is part of the problem. It’s 2024. You toss his ass in prison. Period! To hell with how religious people 2,000 years ago would’ve acted. 👍
@BrianFlemingSpeaker, the "church" is established on certain truths. It is a people within a people. In the world, but not of the world. When Ananias and Sapphira lied to the Holy Ghost, the penalty was death on the spot. When the "brother" in the church at Corinth had sex with his father's wife, his penalty was he was excommunicated til he had repented. Afterwards, he was restored to fellowship as a brother. I have not found any instances in scripture where a pastor molested a child. However, if the church has scriptural guidelines for church discipline, do those guidelines cover sins that are crimes? Regardless of whether it is 50 AD, or 2024, the scriptures are still the standard for the Church in all matters. What I've noticed on RUclips is self righteous condemnation of Robert Morris, and Tony Evans. Those who judge others will also be judged by the same standard. Truth doesn't change just because it's 2024. Men see the acts of a person. God sees the heart. What guidance does the scriptures instruct for these kinds of situations in the church? It seems to me that if the Church follows scriptural guidelines then the best possible outcome will be the result.
@@donaldedmond4117 the Bible makes it clear that we are subject to governing authorities (Romans 13, 1 Peter etc) and as such, obedience to God would suggest that we need to seek prosecution for sexual abusers (as well as praying for their repentance). We also have numerous Scriptures which talk about God's justice therefore involving law enforcement in CRIMES is necessary and godly. Justice for the victims, protection for others and the possibility of repentance for the perpetrator. We may not have exact cases in NT / early church history to glean from but we have enough info to make a biblical framework on how to deal with instances like this in 2024 and beyond. There - fixed it!
@majose7787 , I appreciate your insights. However, there are laws and governing authorities that are anti-Christ. We see it all the time. Is the Church subject to such laws, or governing authorities? I agree the protection of the sheep comes first. Anyone sexually victimized by a pastor must be protected from further violation. The congregation must be protected. The issues I raised are not cut and dry. What is God's mandate? Are men/pastors who sexually assault a child forever unfit for leadership? Can such a person be restored in their character? After David was openly rebuked for his sin, which was worthy of death, he cried out "create in me a clean heart, and renew an upright spirit within me." God spared his life, but the baby died. I believe anyone can be restored in their fellowship with God. Being restored to leadership in a particular congregation is a different matter. If trust has been broken it might be irreparable. Nevertheless, God does not throw people aside because they sinned, even if they molested a child, or committed murder. He gives space for repentance. That doesn't mean they don't have to face the consequences both in the church, and in court. I just see an almost gleeful condemnation of Robert Morris. As if the man is what he did. Many who condemn him have hidden sins in their own lives. They could care less about the Church. They're like sharks in a feeding frenzy. However, those who know their own need for forgiveness are heartbroken when they hear what happened. It is an immense tragedy. The victim has lived with what happened to her since she was 12 years old. Her family has lived with it. So has Robert Morris, and his wife. Now the people at Gateway Church must decide how they are going to treat Robert Morris, and his family. The victim must decide whether she will forgive him. No court order has jurisdiction over these decisions. Whatever anyone thinks about Robert Morris, what God thinks about him is what matters most.
“LET EVERY person be loyally subject to the governing (civil) authorities.
For there is no authority except from God [by His permission, His sanction], and those that exist do so by God's appointment. [Prov. 8:15.]
Therefore he who resists and sets himself up against the authorities resists what God has appointed and arranged [in divine order].
And those who resist will bring down judgment upon themselves [receiving the penalty due them].
For civil authorities are not a terror to [people of] good conduct, but to [those of] bad behavior.
Would you have no dread of him who is in authority? Then do what is right and you will receive his approval and commendation.
For he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, [you should dread him and] be afraid, for he does not bear and wear the sword for nothing.
He is God's servant to execute His wrath (punishment, vengeance) on the wrongdoer.
Therefore one must be subject, not only to avoid God's wrath and escape punishment, but also as a matter of principle and for the sake of conscience. For this same reason you pay taxes, for [the civil authorities] are official servants under God, devoting themselves to attending to this very service.
Render to all men their dues. [Pay] taxes to whom taxes are due, revenue to whom revenue is due, respect to whom respect is due, and honor to whom honor is due.”
Romans 13:1-7 AMPC
Now I understand why Julie Roys has a bone to pick with Christianity Today. Sad.
How God uses those like Jeremiah, the weeping prophet, to speak to His people.
The sheep aren’t very smart…. right!!! because you can’t blame the sheep for being bamboozled by smooth-talkers. However, when their crimes come into the light and the sheep STILL follow them and buy their lame excuses, now that’s a level of stupidity that is very hard to comprehend, AND a callousness toward the victims that is inexcusable. …… when the sheep become accomplices 😞
How to mend a broken heart? Lost trust. Lost faith in men .
So sorry. Jesus is the best to rely on for healing a broken heart. Praying comfort for you.