Mike Bickle Emails to Jane Doe's Husband: Part 2
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- Опубликовано: 11 окт 2024
- In this episode we continue with a breakdown of Mike Bickle's email between him and Jane Doe's husband. See part 1 for more context...
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Currently covering the IHOPKC and Mike Bickle scandal as Blaise spent almost 5 years in leadership at IHOPKC and gives context and breakdown to much of the controversy.
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If he was innocent, all he had to say in the email reply was something like the following:
"I didn't do that. Never did. We can have a meeting with any other past or current leaders you choose. I look forward to having a chance to clear the air."
100%
@@waynv1835Because she was 19 and naive, and under his authority. Not sure how anyone cannot see that. Nice victim blaming.
It’s a fair question to ask without victim blaming. If it’s all true then abuse surely occurred BUT when an adult stays in a situation like that I don’t think you can label it sexual abuse. Thats law of the land stuff. If you’re of consenting age then you consented, even if part of you didn’t want to, part of you did. To say otherwise, is not a humble admission. It’s definitely disgusting abuse of power and spiritual abuse, perhaps even brainwashing, however. I don’t blame thr victims at all because I have been in situations time and time again at that age and I have been asking myself- WOULD I have run away?? Or would I have been provocatively seduced, by power, by excitement, by whatever, and then brainwashed into thinking it’s ok if I ask for forgiveness. What seems to have happened was WRONG but you cannot deny that from age 19-23 we are capable of making our own decisions.
@waynv1835 Bickle - a big name preacher on holiness stays silent about his sexual manipulation of young women under his leadership. Shouldn't he speak up since he would know what he did instead of staff delaying, distracting, and covering for him?
@BlauffenB You…don’t understand abuse, do you? Lots of people stay silent in abusive situations, relationships, marriages, boss/subordinate situations at work, etc *because* of the social, power, financial, familial and - in this case - religious dynamics at play. Predators know this and exploit it: THATS WHAT MAKES IT ABUSE. Did Mike Bickle break the law? No, of course not. Did he abuse his position of authority over this woman? Yes. Did he break his marital vows? Yes. Is he totally disqualified from preaching or teaching or pastoring anyone? Absolutely, and while I wouldn’t quite say you’re not qualified for eldership, for the good of everyone around you, I pray you keep away from it (if you aspire to it) until you learn that.
Christina has the perfect blend of personality to cover this story. She comes across as very sweet and caring and genuine. But she also has just enough edginess and sauciness to bring the stupidity of the ELT to the surface.
Don’t forget Blaise, such credibility and balance these two.
@@christianwoudenberg3393 I sooo agree.
One of the things that is so wholesome in their vids is that this whole issue of sexual abuse and clergy power abuse is being covered by them *as a team together* equal partners, each one submitting to the other in love and joy.
The basic wholeness of them comes thru very strongly and as such represents such an antidote to the toxins that have led to this terrible wrong.
Yall are so kind 😇🙏🏼
I am so thankful you are talking about this with your background at IHOPKC you have such a grounded perspective. Keep up the great work, don't stop!!!!
Mike is accountable to Stuart? Mike hired Stuart and Mike approved Stuart’s salary??? That’s nuts.
Stuart is invoking CORPORATE process (line of accountability) not Matt 18. Bickel is conflating Matt 18 and corporate process to avoid confrontation. Greaves could take charge and set the meetings with himself with or without Bickel (since Bickel reports to Greaves) but is not doing so, likely at the advice of counsel. This is not a Christ centered approach by IHOPKC. It is a liability avoidance approach couched in Christianese.
yes, the same thing with refering to legal terms and protocol rather than Christlike "law of love" process and accountability for an elder in the ekklesia
Your personal clarity in discussing this issue is the best yet in this episode. Righteous clarity and whole hearted commitment to care for the people is paramount right now! Thank you BOTH!!
One of things Mike used to say a lot in his messages is "I'm not a hopeless hypocrite. My love is real even though it's weak." This is how he tried to silence the guilty conscience inside him for his deeds. Instead, he should have confessed his sin and hypocrisy. You can't have leadership and influence and not be held publicly accountable.
You know are they sins? Because it seems like a lifestyle to me. A long term lifestyle of deliberate abuse. We are not talking about a moment of weakness with a peer. He hunted these girls.
Ya’ll please keep bringing it!! TRUTH is so refreshing!! I’m so so sick of sexual crap in the church!! How can we expect anything to change in society while the church is in this condition. Sick sick sick!! Together
As someone who has been in ministry for over 40 years, and come from a ministry home growing up - my motto has always been “Don’t try to minister to the world unless you minister to your family first”.
How they treat women is shameful. Imagine if she didn’t have a husband to stand up for her, how much they would just malign her name and call her Jezebel and push it under the rug all the more! Disgusting. Thank you for bringing it more into the light.
“I take no delight in your solemn assemblies…
Take away from me the noise of your songs;
to the melody of your harps I will not listen.
But let justice roll down like waters,
and righteousness like an ever-flowing stream.”
- Amos 5:21-24
LET US REJOICE THAT HE IS CLEANING HOUSE!
This scripture has been very strong with me the past few months. I spoke on it in our life group. Amos was also a voice for the voiceless!
Amen.
Blaze,
On the issue you’re speaking about “restoration”, I agree with you 100% !
I believe a person can repent and be forgiven, but to be restored back into the same place of authority is idiocy.
The sad truth is many denominations have been guilty of this practice of restoring individuals back to areas of ministry where they can continue to have access to whatever the vice was, money , children, women etc.
Exactly. You don't "restore" a sober person back to their job as a bartender.
Great comment
Yes, I believe this is the Father’s heart. After all… Anonias and Safira….
The Matthew 18 process has nothing to do with civil offenses. If a person commits a crime against someone, the victim does not need to go to the perpetrator to seek resolution. Instead, they can go straight to the civil authorities to seek justice. If, for example, my child was abused by a “Christian” in my community, I have every right to call the police and not to confront the abuser myself. But if the offense was something minor like an insult, then the person should go to the abuser or wrongdoer for peace, and if he or she does not listen, according to Matthew 18, one should bring other witnesses, and if needed, the church as well.
@@ReLair88 we don’t need to get into the specifics. If you feel uncontrollable with calling the cops if someone has stolen your animal or paycheck, that’s your prerogative. Personally, if an employer is refusing to pay me (which is different than a paycheck being late) or if someone is stealing my livestock, I’m getting the authorities involved. If you don’t bring these things to justice, you risk crimes being committed against other people as well. But to your point, if someone is lying or slandering you, that can totally be resolved through Matthew 18
If Ms. Doe was not a minor at that time, then grooming a minor, which is a crime, would not be applicable. She has publicly stated that she was not a victim, and that their relationship was consensual. In addition, this relationship is far beyond the statute of limitations, even if what Mike did was an actual crime. She was an adult, so no outside legal or police/ prosecution could be charged. Only the church leaders could impose sanctions on Mike, or ban him from future leadership. Or fire him, etc. But it is not a criminal issue, period. No underage grooming, and she has said it was consensual and she was not a minor, even if he groomed her. Ethically, it is wrong and incredibly unfaithful to his wife. Only the household of faith can punish this. And the Lord can punish at any time, obviously.
Its all making sense now. I remember when Lou Engle, whom I greatly respect, came forward during One Thing 2018 and was publicly repenting of an ongoing problem with pornography and Mike came forward and tried to silence him from saying anything. That made no sense to me. Lou was publicly humbling himself in repentance and Mike tried to silence him from doing so. That seemed really off to me.
I had watched Onething 2018 when it was available on YT and I was shocked at Lou Engle's "supposed" confession and repentance at that time. It was not the time or place for Lou Engle to confess his sins in front of all those young people attending that conference. The 2 questions I had at that time were, "How long has he been sinning with pornography and why did he allow himself to continue representing IHOP in a high position of leadership, including in that conference?"
If Engle was truly seeking God's forgiveness and making things right in the leadership position he held, he should have asked for a meeting with those over him informing them of his sin and immediately stepping down from any position of leadership within the body of Christ FOREVER! He has disqualified himself, as per the Word of God. Additionally, those over Lou Engle would have to publicly inform the body of Christ of the reasons why he was stepping down.
Furthermore, at the point where Mike Bickle started defending Lou Engle was when I started to question Mike's leadership as well. Engle should have been walked off the stage while informing all those young people that, while they acknowledged Engle's confession, they would continue with the conference without him and follow up on this very serious matter with everyone at a later date. I stopped watching anything to do with IHOPKC at that point and anything that Engle was involved, ie. The Call, The Send....it's all aligned with The New Apostolic Reformation that promotes Dominionism/Kingdom Now theology and Ecumenism/Inter-faith leading to a one-world church. All of it is apostasy!!
I was there and I remember feeling so awkward by how Mike shut down what it seemed the Spirit was trying to do. Never liked him much but was always wary after that.
@shulamite7940 whether or not it was the time or place is debatable since there's nothing scripturally that really points to him not publicly confessing and repenting of said sin. I just thought it a bit off to just outright silence him from it. I think Allen Hoods response to it was more grounded.
@@TheFreedomDefender The point I was trying to make is that Engle should never have allowed himself to be on that stage to begin with as God had already disqualified him of any position of leadership due to his sin of pornography. The fact that he is still leading many into apostasy via "The Send" and "The Call" shows that he is still unrepentant and has no regard for God's Word. He is another wolf in sheep's clothing.
@@shulamite7940thank you ! Glad to hear u and others speaking the about the wrong teachings ie Kingdom Now etc etc.
Thank you so much for your coverage. The work you're doing is so important, and so needed ! I'm currently at IHOPKC (visiting from Switzerland), I arrived on the 30th of October (just after the first official statement from the ELT was released). For the past few weeks, I've witnessed the culture of abuse at play here : the abuses are minimized (or even negated), the "Advocate Group" is presented as the bad guys, Mike Bickle is still seen (by many) as innocent, and the ELT gets a lot of support. People are in denial, not wanting to face the reality of what's happening. And the fact that there were asked multiple times (by the ELT and other speakers) not to "gossip" nor trust what's being said on social media keeps them in the dark.
I'm praying for opened eyes and for people from the community to finally speak up.
These two are a force to be reckoned with. Lol Mike Bickle, you've met your match!
Mike used "blah blah blah" to hide his guilt.
This is stomach churning. I really appreciate you continuing on with this because it's time. 🙏❤️
Awesome coverage, I just want to thank you two for taking time away from busy (healthy!) lives and putting yourself out here. I know its not easy: you catch a lot of flack for it and there’s nothing to win personally except for the Lords heart in shepherding and processing with broken people - a role you’ve never asked for🤣
When I prayed to the Lord about this situationI heard His voice clear as day, with sorrow in it for His children: “You don’t have many fathers…”
I thank God for the deep process he’s worked in you guys the past ten years, who knew it was working up to a moment like this? I bless you, pray protection over you and break any curses from christian brothers and sisters.
When he hurt those women he also hurt the church at large and they have something against him.
Those women are not the only people that have something against him over this. When he hurt those women he also hurt their families, and they too have something against them.
He needs to go to them.
Many other folks from all over also have something against him over all this. They don't like what he did. So he needs to address it all publicly.
The church as a whole is offended.
Matthew 5
23 Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee;
24 Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.
I am sick to my stomach. I experienced a life-changing jolt in a private meeting at IHOP in July, 2021. Those in the room included Mike, Stuart Greaves, David Sliker, and Chris Reed, among prominent others. While my faith and relationship with the Lord remains unshaken, swirling questions are gathering among the uncountable faithful who thought IHOP was pure. Can it be that centralized control centers are dangerously counter-Kingdom and instead, house to house communities hold the scriptural model we seek?
Absolutely.
Well put. But house to house can operate the same way. It's like a mental disease. We need to follow scripture and the Spirit and challenge people & leaders every time we think something is up. Discussion brings up problems. Evidence is shown. Who cares who is right if the truth is found because of the discussion allowing all to grow together towards Yeshua instead of the leader.
Yes. 100%. The Lord told us 7 years ago to STOP GOING to “church” and start BEING the church.
There might not be as many predators in a smaller setting, (not as many victims to chose from), but you still have to stay alert and take nothing for granted. Especially if there are children around. We can't read people's hearts.
Yes, I think so. I always felt something was off about IHOP although I couldn't say what exactly. It's never good for people to gobble up one man's teaching...that's not what Jesus died to give us.
I’m right there with you Blaise. My anger is aroused. Don’t hold back. You are verbalizing things that many agree with.
In the military, the higher ranking member is ALWAYS responsible in any inappropriate relationship they find themselves in. Contemporary Church leadership could take a lesson.
A great policy. Just makes sense.
Wes is posting comments on his FB. He told our congregation about it on Oct. 28th and was crying. I can't believe Mike would do this to the women, but the men he has mentored, they must be heartbroken!!
Praying for all the people who are trying to expose this evil. It is so sad!!
Thanks for sharing this guys. Someone has to do it
bahahaha "This is definitely not from John Maxwell. This is terrible!" You guys have been doing a great job - keep it up!
Bickle enforces any Jane Doe to come to him and Stuart. But Jane Doe's husband can't bring a second party to any meeting.
This sounds like Bickle and Stuart are defending a "process", as their defense. Bickle sounds like he's still teaching and preaching in these very extensive letters.
Money, sex, power, and prophetic ministry 😂😂😂people are stupid 🤷🏻♂️🤷🏻♂️🤷🏻♂️
Even if there is no abuse and the relationships were fully consensual, Bickle’s behavior is and was unacceptable. He does not belong in any Christian ministry. Anywhere. He needs to go into hiding with his family and do penance for the rest of his life.
Thank you Blaise, Christina, appreciate your work!
From a secular perspective, this is dealing with serious Psychopathology and "Group-Think-Cult Pathology".
This is far beyond the scope of a mere spiritual issue.
These abused women need to file charges.
Ok,,,, this was amazing!!!
I pray people will listen through to the end, because possibly the best is at the end.
Thank you!
People like this need to be exposed and held accountable. We trust these people with our lives, life decisions, our children and they break our trust and violate people’s lives with no one bringing them to justice. God is just and He still has a say. This is a very sad situation.
Young man I appreciate that you guys are doing this. And listening to what you just said at 1712 about the hyper gracing and how it’s like these teachings were baked in to the culture so that is something like this happens then the teaching itself can be used against anyone that comes against them. I would suggest that you consider backing away from all of this hyper spirituality. And just stick to the written text. You don’t need dreams and visions in someone to come to you to tell you to start a church. Just need the word of God in agreement of good brothers and sisters and commit your way to the Lord.
Mike Bickle should be totally disqualified from ministry! No restoration!!
Who would be “restoring” him lol. NAR? 🤡
This ministry should be shut down
@@Tendervittle they are allegedly violating the law….they will never shut themselves down.
@@bordendonna They care to much about power and money to resign. They want it to continue no matter what. They are not doing the right thing for anyone. Dispicable! There has been so much sexual abuse in IHOP over the many years!! I believe God is shutting it down.
@@bordendonnahopefully the congregation will wize up. That might be asking a lot😂but I think attendance will drastically decline. This is just the beginning of hearing the dirt within, and it stinks..
MB’s rambling, childish response about nonsense and gibberish (ie: he will teach without an honorarium and loves to be at the GPR) in response to an email simply asking him to meet is beyond laughable. This is a classic unresponsive answer. It’s just redirecting to nonsensical nonsense. He’s an absolute joke.
Blaise & Christina please have trusted praying friends around you, for you are in front line battle here. I've been there with my own case and know the fight, so am praying for you both. Thank you for your work here.
I love both of you!! Straight forward! No games!!! Thank you!!!
This commentary is refreshing, thank-you for your informative series. Sending a sheep to meet a wolf, and expecting the sheep to survive is beyond naive.
“Restore your family.” 😭😭😭😭 wow,isn’t that the TRUTH. God have mercy.
So disgusting
I love both of your common sense, honest and true biblical approach to this. Keep at it! The truth will come out. 💙
Wolves gather in packs and are never alone, for they protect each other. What other "packs" did Mike run in FOR YEARS, think logically.
He covered for each sexually deviant prophet-why do Christians need so much cheap entertainment? What is so hard about feeding the poor and being compassionate?
The fact that Mike (even possibly) had an affair with the same women who had an affair with his own son is wild.
Oh my. Apostacy in the last days.
🥹 really? there are many reasons to reject this group… 1. NARS doctrine 2. Grandiose False Prophecy. 3. Clergy Abuse 4. Cult Traits (there’s more that will likely come out)
Jerry springer to the core
Are you referring to "Jane Doe" or someone else?
@@TheStemo1 referring to Catherine Slezinger. Bickle's granddaughter called her out on facebook
Stephen Powell really tried to show how dangerous Todd and advocate for the victims but no one really took him seriously, Rick Joyner attacked him too and he suffered so much backlash from many. It happened a few years ago. Dr Brown and Patricia King was somewhat involved but advocating for the victims fizzled out at that time. I found it tragic coz seemed like only Stephen Powell cared enough, but it wasn't enough
Orhers cared too but were blackballed threatened and persecuted. Please read Juliw Loren's Book: BENT
One burning question....how is it that law enforcement does not take action and let IHOPKC be a law unto themselves???? Something smells fishy, may the truth come out and justice for all.
As I dug into info about Perry S. I found out he was basically buying law enforcement with major gifts and contributions. I would think KC wouldn't be as easy, but there are always those in authority that can be bought. It's sad. I hope they do step in. Perry S. Is still preaching but fbi file still open.
@@sandyanderson859😢😢
@@sandyanderson859
I had NO idea about Perry S. Do you mean THE Perry S. that is one of my fave teachers ? Oh dear me. I hope it's repented of and all sorted out.? 🫤
@@A-Grammie-On-the-ROCK he thinks it's all sorted out... I dug deep and listened to several audio clips and read everything I could read. Imo he should not be in the pulpit... But sitting down period. I used to listen too, but I knew something was off and hardly watched his yt videos anymore before I discovered his scandal. Then I knew why something was off. The Holy Spirit will lead us if we are watching and listening. Perry barely stepped away from pulpit... He supposedly has repented and been restored. I was very disappointed to learn everything, but most of all several audio clips of things he said. His response was most disappointing, and I will never trust him again. In fact I will likely never trust millionaire preachers period. We've got to stop letting these preachers have so much blind trust. Why are ministries named after men... God is not happy with what they are doing and he expects us to listen to Holy Spirit. Im sad too. We need to continually be filled with Holy Spirit and hang on while he shakes the church. I'm sick what these men do and get away with for so long. I'm mad and sad. God is not happy with them either. I think their day of reckoning is here.
@@sandyanderson859 perry stone?
Just for clarity on Todd Bentley, a whole new set of allegations resurfaced in 2017-2018 after the former intern got rebuffed by Rick Joyner. The extent of paedophilic abuse by Todd and his new wife Jessa was unbelievably large, even including group orgies and open relationships evidenced by photos and group chats, and would be perpetrated against there interns and people drawn to their ministry in third world crusades (Pakistan was especially bad). Patricia King platformed the complaints and called for repentance. An independent process was led my dr. Michael Brown and the verdict was unequivocal: Todd Bentley is a dangerous sex offender that must never be allowed in any form of ministry again. Todd withdrew from the process halfway (just like the first time) and ignored the verdict.
😳 and is he still in “ministry”? Is Joyner involved?
weaponization of the Word of God to protect sin
no fear of God
31:00 BRING THAT FIRE CHRISTINA!!!!! 🔥 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
Appreciate your thoroughness. Found you after reading TRR article.
@6:49, the expression is "couldn't care less." Granted most people say "could," but thought you might want to know the correct word.
Let's pray for the current woman Mike's been grooming to get free and come forward, too.
Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves.
“You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes, nor figs from thistles, are they?
“So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. “A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. “Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
“So then, you will know them by their fruits.
Matt. 7:16-20 NASB
Beware of the fake prophetic movement
can we infer that a movement which grew out of false prophets is not a godly movement?
@@teafortwo9307 finally someone gets it🕊 church people are desperate for cheap/sleazy entertainment. What is so hard about feeding the poor and being compassionate?????
@@Tendervittle I wouldn't say church people... I know plenty of church people who would engage with integrity. I would say false prophets. If Bob Jones 'hears from God' that women need to undress to receive their prophetic words from him... is he really hearing from God? If he is so far off in this area wouldn't that put all of his other prophesies into question? Biblically speaking the bible says the prophet has spoken presumptuously... he has spoken for God what God has not said... and they aren't a prophet.
@@teafortwo9307 you do know Bob was in a mental institution before staring on the prophetic circuit/circus? Not one part of this ministry is godly, at any point. I started in the very beginning and always knew something was suspect. Where did all that money go????
Keep it up yall amazing as always
He said the same things 25 years ago when Gruen wanted to do Matt 18. . . Swap out Wimber for greaves. .
And wouldn't listen to correction from Derek Prince
Total Amen on this repent and restore junk! You are now disqualified, find a job!!!
AMEN, Christina.👏👏👏 Restoration to Jesus Christ and your family is PRIORITY.
Young brother, read the Scriptures. He does not have a shot returning the ministry. He is completely 100% and forever disqualified. Like you said he should go get a job and he should go to some little church somewhere and sit in the back with tape over his mouth.
I have not heard a word about the lady who is the wife of Mike. She either doesn't give a crap...and had dumped Mike years ago. Or...she has to be the most embarrassed women. Ever
Word is she left town when this broke
Her name is Diane. She is a lovely woman and doesn't deserve what's happening.
She's likely been abused herself in some form or fashion. If he's the narcissist that he's sounding like, she's likely been dealing with more heartache than anyone but God knows about. Our Lord is not going to let MB get away with this. He cannot see his own ignorance.
@@sandyanderson859🎯
So grateful for the United presentation of love and truth you bring such clarity in for us. ELT cannot hide from this much longer….and Jesus is aware of the MUCH MORE that’s been said and done not written in the report…..
Amazing your all perception of this situation is down to earth and common sense. Your approach is correct keep being bold and keep being strong. Your wife is like a boss! She is amazing!!!!
Greats videos, done with visdom and love. Thank you so much. I think Mick’s emails are a even greater testimony of Mike’s guilt than the victim’s.
Thanks guys, I know it is difficult to do this. Yes our first ministry is to our family. Which honestly is the best way to have accountability. My wife should be able to know exactly who I am and what I do so she can testify to my life first.
Some of these people need to to be in jail!!!
Maybe Mike gave Stuart a prophesy when he was younger that one day He (Stuart) would have to defend David like how Jonathan defended David. So Stuart is Jonathan. Mike is David. This wouldn't surprise me the way how Mike thinks.
One thing we forget here... We can go to bed and repent but true repentance requires turning away from sin. And if people have bought this issue up for years and nothing has been done I see why they just throw their hands up and walk away... It seems to me that if people are still in his church they should run! Because I'm seeing and hearing from these emails that according to scripture - 2 Corinthians 11: 12/
2 Corinthians 11:4 -
" two different gospels here, two different Jesus, etc here! Matthew 7:15-16-"false prophets that look like sheep but are "ravenous wolves." Acts 20:29- Paul reminds us about deceptive ministers who preach false messages. Galatians 1:8-12 - ..." if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be a accursed"...🙏✝️🇮🇱✡️🇺🇲🕊️
It was right to drop about Stuart protecting rapists. Too many keep silent when Christians do evil.
Abuse victims are not required to confront their Abusers. That’s like asking the wounded sheep to confront the Wolf….Really????
Exactly
Thank you guys for sharing these things. It is, in my opinion, very sad that it has come to this. I would have been very happy to have been spared the details, while Mike Bickle reconciled himself to the Lord, his family and those with whom he had sexual encounters. But he didn't, so here it is. Scripture says, "where there's life, there's hope" (Ecc 9:4a) so lets pray that he does come to repentance. Proverbs 28:13 says He that covers his sin, shall not prosper, but he that confesses and forsakes his sin, shall receive mercy. The nightly confessing and continuing to abuse does not seem to cut it. 2 Tim 2 is a great chapter which I think applies to this situation. It ends with, "In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will." To me it is pretty scary to read that it is God that gives repentance. It seems that it is a grace that God extends to those who are sorrowful for their sin and desire to return to the truth. It looks like God extended the grace, but the Holy Spirit was rejected and there is a hardening of the heart and deception? Comments anyone?
He did years ago but someone still decided to dig everything up again
i think its time to reevaluate the entire IHOP model...Prophetic words cover everything... the entire edifice is rotten to the core...i think there is a good chance he will get away with this in the pentecostal circles that he travels in ( they always do ) but it may catch up to him a series of civil actions...
Absolutely True!! Well Stated!!
Past time. Especially knowing the first horny prophet was straight out of a mental institution. Why does the church need cheap entertainment/what’s so hard about feeding the poor and being compassionate??
Thank you for bringing up the Paul Cain and Bob Jones element! Not to mention the quick “restoration” back to their positions they had when they sinned…like what happened with Todd Bentley…Restoration with God is one thing but restoration doesn’t include an immediate installation back to the position they were in when they sinned.. That is for God to decide and cause to happen if at all in HIS timing not ours…
This is all fantasy land. Might be good to just walk away-there is No christ in any of this nonsense
Yes and that other incident with Todd was a police report when he was 13 of molesting a young boy. 😬
The fact that Paul Cain and Bob Jones are still venerated in charismatic circles is completely baffling to me. Have you listened to anything Bob Jones has said? He is practically incoherent.... Why are people so blind?
@@teafortwo9307 willfully ignorant
@@suemeself6995 🤢🤮just think, there is so much we don’t know.
This whole Bickle deal is nothing more than “the wolf guarding the hen house. “
i dont trust mike at all
Don’t trust anything in this movement/cash cow
Jim Bakker said he didn’t have the Fear of the Lord. Sounds like Mike Bickle
Mike will be selling buckets of food on Jim bakers show soon. This is all so trailer trash
If MB had any integrity, whatsoever, on any level, he would come forth and own up to his behavior.
Yep!
Past that point
He’s playing the “blame the devil” game”…
Evangelicals love to blame satan 😂😂
With regards to restoration, how can a wolf be restored into anything other than a wolf! He was always a wolf!
As far as matthew 18 goes, I would say we need to probably go back and look at it and see if it’s even pertaining to Matters of rape or murder but maybe it’s only pertaining to disagreements or something you know between men but something that can be resolved, but not an actual Criminal matter.
I think it’s worth noting that Stuart’s wife works with Mike Bickle’s wife and son wat Gladheart Realty - The IHOP adjacent realty company that (I think) is suspiciously positioned to help people moving to KC purchase houses.
BINGO!
DING DING DING DING DING DING…..THE PLOT THICKENS….
WHAT DOES WIFEY KNOW AND WHEN DID SHE BEGIN TO KNOW IT ?????
Is protecting a business from scandal a TYPE OF ENABLEMENT???
Just through his emails it screams he's guilty, so manipulative, blah blah blah
Hey, thank you both of you I know I commented a lot I was just doing it in real time as you were talking. Keep fighting keep speaking loudly pray and seek the Lord and sola Scriptura! Stick to the word of God not what someone says they heard. Hallelujah may Jesus be praised
Ernie Gruen attempted doing Matthew 18 with Bickle in the late 1980's. When Bickle did not cooperate, Gruen gathered testimonies from charismatics throughout the KC area whose churches and members had been negatively impacted by MB's prophetic campaign to make himself King of the KC Charismatics (basically, he was using prophecy of his commission by God to cannibalize other churches and/or bring them under his control). He published the testimonies and documentation he had gathered in 1990, seeking assistance from the wider charismatic community to attempt to bring MB to accountability. John Wimber stepped in to oversee an investigation and act as an authority structure.
Jack Deere conducted the investigation and determined MB hadn't breached any biblical or ethical standards. Bickle, reportedly, "confessed publicly to pride and to the promoting of prophetic ministry and ministers in a way that proved detrimental to the body of Christ". I'd love to get hold of a transcript or recording of that, if anyone knows where it might be found. This sounds very much like a minimization of the injuries inflicted.
MB's churches came under the Vineyard umbrella until MB disassociated from Vineyard over a disagreement with Wimber's directive to the Toronto Vineyard, that they tone down the drunk in the spirit and bark like a dog shenanigans. Toronto disassociated from Vineyard in 1995; KC in 1996. Mike couldn't be King while under Vineyard. 1996 was also when Bickle's association with Jane Doe began, was it not?
You guys have a lot of good insight. I have heard Rick Joyner talk about Todd Bentley and how he and Bill Johnson were asked to work with him as he was supposedly in a repentance process. They did not believe Todd was ready to go back into his own ministry and Todd went off on his own, at which point Rick disassociated his name from Todd's. It seemed like Rick handled that well as far as I could tell.
Re: Todd Bentley, prior to his affair with Jessa at Lakeland, he fell into sexual immorality several times. Then there was Jessa. And finally, about three years ago, there was a huge bruahaha with him again over at least one other woman. Stephen Powell, Patricia King and a panel of men (led by Dr. Michael Brown) called him disqualified for ministry. The info on this is all over the internet. During this time (exactly four years ago), Todd was on FB lives every night with his enablers, sobbing and "repenting." However, at the same time, he was at the movies with some other woman. I have the receipts. He basically made a mockery of the whole process.
Amen! The first ministry is the family! All of this is just horrible. The systematic deception and sexual abuse AND the utter disrespect for his WIFE!! Sigh
Feel for the husband 🥲
Watch elijah streams Monday... Johnny enlow mentioned a young couple (i an sure it was you) you.... And have more information on similar situations. Excellent!
I agree with Johnny Enlow that you two are doing an awesome job exposing the truth. God Bless
My biggest thing is ppl who don’t know what’s going on need to not speculate. Those involved directly need to be telling the facts and us outsiders need to be calling for 3rd party investigations without extra speculation. I am glad things are slowly coming out like these emails that us on the outside can finally see pieces of what’s gone on
NEWSFLASH, MIKEY! YOU'RE NOT DAVID!
Jerry springer to the core
Do not be a judge unless God has called you or you are ready to be one. Please pray and see from the eyes of God. Yet, Mike was wrong about 20 plus years ago but is he still wrong or sinful today? If no, please let him go and move on. I am a major warning prophet and an apostle like Apostle Paul. Please read carefully. Please understand that it is true that we must obey the Bible including Matthew 18:15-17 for peacemaking (reconciliation). I have been praying for IHOPKC. Remember that we need evidence, witnesses to accuse a pastor or a minister (1 Timothy 5:19,20)! If not, the case in many years ago 20+ should be closed! We must understand also that the prophecy and the revelation of the truth from the Holy Spirit are needed for judgment against a pastor or a minister! Jane Doe was also responsible for this sin! Why she allowed it from the beginning? Why didn't she voice out at the time of this sinful act? Please be just!
I truly pray that Desert Stream Ministry will be able to bring healing and restoration to all involved.
If there's not a solid foundation of moral purity and genuine integrity in a ministry, all of the so called gifting and prophesy etc is at best a stinking house of cards.
"Lord please shake all that can be shaken and burn up the chaff... Heb. 12:28,29 thank you for using quality servants to clean out Your house and may we see repentance, revival, and reformation in our land, amen"
We need to blame the low level congregation for their love of cheap entertainment. What is so hard about feeding the poor and being compassionate. The church (prophetic movement) is the whore Babylon
Perhaps you two have been appointed for such a time as this similar to,what Esther was told.
At 1733 there we go again with this false idea and abuse of the scripture. There’s no Davidic anointing over anyone’s life. We are in Christ. We don’t get Elijah’s anointing we don’t get David’s anointing you don’t get your aunts anointing that’s the kind of stuff that creates this young brother.
These comments that I read on the Roys Report article about the emails are very interesting reguarding the comment "praying for you for real 195 to the end". Using scripture in code!!!
"Michael Slattery says: .... I think you may be under-selling what Mike Bickle meant by “Praying for you for real 195 to the end”. If you look back at the screenshot, the email Bickle sent right before the one in question, he titles it “Ps 19:5”. Psalm 19:5 refers to the sun emerging like a triumphant bridegroom coming out of his chamber: “It is like a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, like a champion rejoicing to run his course”. So, Bickle is basically saying “I’m praying for you for real. Bridegroom coming out of his chamber until the end.” This substantiates Doe’s claim that Bickle would say that he and Doe would ultimately get married. It’s such an awkward verse to quote for any other reason
Reply: Cec Merz says: Michael, thanks for connecting the code to a Bible verse. As I understand the analogy, a bridegroom feels like a champion because he has consummated the marriage in “his chamber” shortly before exiting that room. An interesting comparison to our solar system, yes. For a sexual predator, however, it’s beyond awkward. More like sickening and creepy."
If God never said to have 24/7 prayer in the first place, then no wonder it's such a mess. I believe that's the root of the problem. I lived in KC 20 plus years ago and was warned about his ministry back then. I never became a part of it and have wondered over the years about that warning. And, now here it is being spotlighted by God.
24/7 prayer and worship is not the problem. Not caring for the people there is
We are to pray unceasingly.
Sure, but did God really tell him to try and pull that off corporately? If not, then the ministry has been of man, not the Holy Spirit.
I’ve always thought this too! Sure, maybe God did call him to 24/7 prayer. I just want to know about when God said it was okay to exploit the idea, take money from the family’s if young adults and turn it into a multi million dollar operation?! You can follow the lord and keep yourself hidden. It’s possible!
@@kimcoffman8390 There's a third possibility. It could have been the devil's idea. Look at all the terrible "fruit" of this. There is so much really bad fruit. It's not slightly bad; it's absolutely horrible.
Bob Jones was into the occult. He had demons manifesting left and right, spewing lies like a devil, the father of lies. The entire "prophetic foundation" is lie after lie after lie.
24/7 prayer and worship is monasticism. It was birthed via a false prophet, pathological liar and pedophile with occult and New Age practices.
Bob Jones appeared to be an angel of light. 24/7 p/w appears to be the idea of an angel.
At 16:20, these guys who use and abuse spiritual “positions” do not care about who they hurt… only their own reputation. That email shows his blatant disregard for the person he took advantage of 😞🙌🏼✝️
Mike Bickle is a very cold person. Basically worse than a narcissist, he's a sociopath. Maybe worse.
How about just true repentance? Meaning you turn away from it and you don’t do it anymore. Repentance is not just confessing your sin before God every single night so you can “clear your conscience.” It’s literally a turning away from that sin and making the choice to walk completely diametrically in the opposite direction in righteous and holiness by in victory over it by faith and not do it anymore. Jesus told the woman at the well go and sin no more. So I’m not quite sure how he thinks his conscience was clear every night if he continued to have this relationship with these different women and be spiritually, abusive and manipulate them…? Plus he’s a leader and bible teacher in the body of Christ. Shouldn’t he be setting the example of repentance and humility… esteem your brethren above yourself?
Exactly.
Bickle’s got a new side Chix
“I resigned”, “I am not accountable to the ELT, only to Stuart Greaves”. What about accountability to Holy Spirit? If indeed the allegations are true, the deception at work is complete. Grace and peace from the Lord Jesus Christ be upon you.
Hey, Blaise and Christina! I was praying about the Matthew 18:15 - 17 (technically Matthew 18:15 - 20) process diving into the Word a bit deeper looking into the Greek a bit and seeking God's insights. I understand that God understands all things and His Word is perfect covering all the things we need in order to have that right relationship with God and with people.
Being that I had been abused in multiple ways and God has helped me and others find safety, I knew God wouldn't put a victim in greater harms way, but would provide a way out for that victim or victims.
That said, what I sensed The Lord shared with me is that if someone were to say an abused person would have to go by Matthew 18:15 first before bringing others along... technically the person...if he or she resisted the abuser...already did that first part when they protested what the abuser was doing to them. If you look closely at Matthew 18:15 using a Greek lexicon, that person who's seen that brother sin (some translations) or been sinned against (some translations) is to rebuke that person personally in order for that person to hopefully be convicted and repent. Technically, that's what a lot of people do automatically when being harmed by someone. That should count right there as meeting with that person privately..so to speak..if someone is going to require someone to go the Matthew 18 rout.
I'm still seeking God on certain things because I also know that sometimes abusers trick their victims into thinking the victim deserves to be harmed. In that case, a victimized person wouldn't protest it...at least at that moment.
Knowing that God knows everything, I imagine He has something to cover that situation. I'll be seeking God and His Word for that, as well.
One more thing about Matthew 18:15 in regard to Jane Doe's case as it's presented to us in the Julie Roys Report, technically Jane Doe and her brother did use Matthew 18:15 first. There were times Jane Doe pointed out to MB (as laid out in the article) when she felt he was being inappropriate with certain young women... I'm not sure if she said anything to him right at those moments when she felt he crossed the line with her. Her personal case seems complicated being she was being conditioned to think MB was a wiser and a trusted spiritual leader looking out for her with great "love" for her.
Anyway, when Jane Doe's brother was reaching out to him in the emails, that was a private reaching out. Also, even if Jane Doe's brother wanted to take some others with him to see MB, it would be a continuation of Jane Doe's process anyway and would perfectly fit with the next step in her process.
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If you don't mind, are y'all on FB? There are some things I want to talk with y'all about in my personal life that some of these things relate with. I had never been to IHOPKC or anything, but there are some things that are similar to some things I've gone through....maybe not as intense, though. Somethings are easier to talk with someone on the phone (or audio messenger) than text.
Thankfully, I do have people in the Body of Messiah I can confide in and I can also talk with my biological sister about certain things, as well. Also, thankfully, when I went through a lot of the abuse I went through as an adult, I had family I could talk with. I'm grateful...and I'm also going through God-ly counseling with someone who's professional, born again, Holy Spirit filled, loves Jesus, and honors God's Word. There are wonderful things happening now at my church as God gives us a reboot.
Anyway, if there is some way we could talk....that would mean a lot.
God bless y'all! Thank y'all for doing y'all's best to be pleasing to The Lord and represent Him as He really is. Thanks for sharing the info y'all are sharing in the best and most Biblical way y'all know how. It truly shows in y'all's vlogs. Much love and blessings to y'all ... and the whole Body of Messiah! In Messiah Jesus' Name!
I appreciate you both. Your consistent coverage of this terrible issue is informative.
With that said, I am a little concerned for you? Are you guys doing well? A consistent soaking in this “grossness:)” cannot be to beneficial for the soul.
I can see following a biblical path of “exposure” being something that should happen. Still, at what point does this become hurtful to your own spirit? Serious question.
I can also see a need to speak for those that cannot, or even should not, speak for themselves.
I know for me, even the moments watching the content hasn’t been all that emotionally healthy for me. So, I do “try” to limit myself.
I’m just concerned for you. If you are good-then you are a good. If not, just know that I am thinking about you. I am also praying, when I do think about it,:) for you:;). Be blessed.
False Teachers need zealous young people
I see your point,an agree. Usually IMO the two are not a good mix. Their zeal allows them to not see the falseness.
Do not forget that IHOP has blessed many and there is long standing good fruit from those blessed.
This is not negated.
Separate and distinct.