IHOPKC/Mike Bickle 𝑷𝒓𝒐𝒑𝒉𝒆𝒕𝒊𝒄 𝑯𝒊𝒔𝒕𝒐𝒓𝒚- Jack Deere Exposes the 𝐂𝐨𝐫𝐫𝐮𝐩𝐭𝐢𝐨𝐧 𝐨𝐟 𝐏𝐚𝐮𝐥 𝐂𝐚𝐢𝐧
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- Опубликовано: 26 авг 2024
- A close ministry associate of Paul Cain, Jack Deere, comes out on substack over the last few months and exposes Paul Cain's corruption. It's time for it all to be tested (1 Thess. 5:21)
𝑭𝒓𝒆𝒆 𝑳𝒊𝒇𝒆 𝑰𝒏𝒔𝒖𝒓𝒂𝒏𝒄𝒆 𝑪𝒐𝒏𝒔𝒖𝒍𝒕𝒂𝒕𝒊𝒐𝒏: calendly.com/b...
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I went to visit KC Fellowship (pre-IHOP) in the early 90’s. I liked the message of devotion to Jesus that Bickle spoke but didn’t feel right about the KC prophets.
I told my dad about Paul Cain’s influence in KC. He had grown up attending large tent meetings by Cain, AA Allen, Oral Roberts, etc..
Upon hearing about Cain’s re-emerging, he immediately remembered that Cain disappeared from the ministry due to a scandal. He had a young male traveling companion with him at all times and allegations were surfacing that he was in a homosexual relationship with this young man. This was back in the 50’s I think.
My dad immediately debunked this notion that Cain was in solitude waiting on the Lord for a pure prophetic ministry to arise.
He disappeared because of the scandal. If Bickle and others had done a little research and vetting of Cain, they could have discovered this instead of buying his false narrative. I have never heard this mentioned so thought I would mention this here!
That's important historical information. You'd be doing a service if you made this more widely known.
“I try and stay out of cults” 🤣🤣
Christina: “You’re welcome.” 🤭
❤❤ Thank you for not leaving behind the gifts and the works of the holy spirit. This stuff hit me hard when it came out. I used to travel from Minnesota to Kansas city for conferences. And I was drawn in. Yet something about Mike bickle , I didn't feel right about. I just didn't know what it was. But now I'm a missionary in Uganda. And have seen a lot of healing, prophecy, and deliverance. We just don't know who can be trusted or believed. All of this makes my stomach hurt. Thank you for being faithful
Prophets today are 99.9 percent wrong
The problem is: we cannot verify those experiences you listed.
This is not meant as a personal attack, rather a critical look on everything we hear and see.
What matters most? “A minister who loves his wife, loves his kids, and can admit when he is wrong.” Humility. Character. Amen. Such a good point.
"The prophetic history seems like an oxymoron" 🥂🤣
Haha, that was good. It reminds me of the joke about the two prophets meeting each other. They shook hands and one said, "You're fine how am I?"
When other pastors are so desperate to restore these fallen "leaders" practically with no questions asked...It almost seems that they believe that God can't move on earth without that person... as if God is dependent on that person's perceived "anointing". I appreciated what sweet Tammy Woods said (what a precious sister) ... how can we imagine that God cares more about these leaders anointing than he cares about his single sheep? I think we need to consider what Jesus himself said...a bad tree CANNOT produce good fruit... and a good tree CANNOT produce bad fruit. Unless someone shows me in scripture that these men could be both good trees producing bad fruit, I think we need to take Jesus at his word.
Yes, also, why does any person in ministry think they can bring anyone else to restoration. If that person wants to be restored he needs to get help from the Holy Spirit & Jesus. Ask for forgiveness & step down from leadership. Imo he can be forgiven & then sit down. No longer in leadership again. The Bible says.. disqualified.
@@wlknonsonshine Amen!
I think you're right. I mean, of course you're right as you're quoting the Word accurately. God is a redeem er. The beautiful thing about God is that even when the bad tree bears bad fruit, He is there to heal and redeem. Like what Joseph said to his brothers, "You meant it for evil, but God meant it for good." I wouldn't wish my most difficult and trying times in my life on a dog, but I also wouldn't trade the valuable lessons for anything. "Now no chastening for the present time seems joyous, but grievous. Nevertheless, afterward, it yields the peaceable fruit of righteousness to them that are exercised by it." The dear IHOP'ers thought they were doing the will of God. Let's pray that they are able to find the true heart of God and be led into a glorious future!
I have the cds. When my husband left in 2006, I was devastated. I listened to all of them and I was all in. Now I see that I was in that super vulnerable place to be deceived. I didn’t know who Cain or Jones were. Now I am having to rethink Everything. Thank you for walking me through all this. ❤️
Timing highlandgirl. Thats why experts will tell you cult involvement is not predicated on intelligence. Cult involvement is driven by timing. If you are seeking within your faith or maybe a new believerer, fresh and excited but vulnerable, walking into a place like the prophetic cult you will fall into their arms like a babe into mama's arms.
The Lord bless you. God is real. And MB, PC and BJ .... and Augustine Alcala for that matter are all fake.
“Mike Bickle is exposing himself… literally.” 😂
There is great redemptive value in exposing the deeds done in darkness. It’s completely biblical to affirm bad fruit as evidence of a bad tree. It’s also the primary component of repentance to fully acknowledge sin so you can reject it and turn from it.
I love you guys so much!! Ima 68 year old Grandma intercessor who has gone thru different versions of church hurt. I am extremely proud of you 2!!! I so appreciate you as a young married couple with children, being bold enough to speak out and expose something that is seriously wrong and against God and His Word!! Your courage emboldens others!! You are bringing clarity to confusion and truth to what has been skewed and false!! I applaud you and thank you for your biblical approach to this matter!! You are also showing the godly way a ministry should be run. Your parents must be proud!! 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻❤️
I also am 68 and so proud of them.
Thanks!
When these guys were brought into the Vineyard movement during the 80's, we all believed the story. We trusted Wimber, and he was mistaken. While he later kicked the prophets out of Vineyard, we never received an explanation. So most of us thought these guys were on the up and up.
It's shocking now to find out how off things were. Many of us are re-evaluating the prophecies we heard during those years. And many, many Vineyard and former Vineyard people visited IHOPKC because they believed it was a place where God was really moving.
We had no idea that Paul Cain and Bob Jones were researching people and pretending to prophesy details about their lives. And we had no idea the things MB has done for decades.
I have always had a positive opinion of John Wimber. How do you feel about him now that time had past? Thanks for sharing btw.
Yes, we were in the Vineyard during the early years of this all, and basically we were told Ernie Gruen was a pharisaical, religious-spirited man who was to be ignored. But years later when I read his letter myself, I found a pastoral heart of care for the Church at large.
I was a missionary in Mozambique in 2012 and the Lord cued me that mysticism and divination had come into the Church of Jesus Christ and He wanted it out. I then read the book, God's Generals, which a Bethel friend had sent with me to put in the mission library (but had been boxed away). After reading it I wanted to chuck all charismatic stuff; I wanted the Bible only; but my hubby is a good Bible teacher and told me to have balance.
I emphatically told my kids to always make sure whatever came their way was in accordance with the Word, to not be swayed by their peers (for my daughter had gone to Holy Given School of Missions 2006 and subsequently my husband, younger daughter and I had gone to Iris Harvest Mission School. Right after my warning, my daughter received an invitation to John Crowder's New Mystics conference. I then investigated and discovered the ungodliness of this fruit of Bob Jones's ministry.
Our family has much experience in the river circles of fellowship, but never fully gelled with it and were gracious about it. We do not talk of it all except our love for the fellow servants who truly exhibit love for Jesus. There's so much that could be said, but only if God wills. Meanwhile I'm praying for the Church to be purged of all mixture (like Revelation letters to the Churches affirmed the good, but called out the garbage) and that the Church be strengthened, that a true revival can occur someday.
I don’t think they were ever real prophets of God. Remember there ARE LYING signs and wonders!!
Yes. Exactly!
Agree!
Agreed
I came here to say this. I'm totally confused by a lot of this ....especially giving him credit, by the writer, after seeing everything...still saying he is a great prophet. Can we not say demonic? Whether its the yellow pages, Facebook, or Satan himself. ..it's demonic. Satan isn't stupid. He knows your relatives, he knows, your address & and he is patient.
@@wlknonsonshine Especially when you look at the fruit of their lives. Life long alcoholism, sexual abuse and perversions, lying, manipulating for personal gain. Does any of that sound like a saint struggling with their sin nature, but trying to live holy? Or a wolf?
“No redemptive value in exposing Paul Cain”?? What about redeeming and restoring the minds, hearts and faith of those who were subject to his abuse and deception? What about defending the name and honor of the Lord who died for their freedom and their souls?
You guys are really refreshing to watch on all this. The fact that you can call out the hypocrisy while not becoming entirely jaded toward God or spiritual gifts speaks well of you.
Thank you for all the work you guys are doing!! As someone who's been in KC for 10 years and indoctrinated by IHOP for the last 17 years your videos have been so helpful. Thank you!!!
Saying Mike was "giddy" was the perfect characterization. He would sometimes say the worst things but with a kind, giddy face. He always had a smile on. And now i realize how fake it was. It came off as weird when he would keep it up at weird moments. I remember him praying over me once and i would often tell men not to touch me during prayer due to trauma. He kept trying to grab my head and make me fall over. He kept saying "just let go". I remember feeling creeped out. The cracks showed sometimes but I was just too young and naive to notice.
You noticed. When we are young we learn things we don't fully understand. Part of the fun of advancing in wisdom as we age is seeing these pieces of experience fit together. Peace to you dear sister. Thanks for sharing.
Thank you for sharing this comment. I was just talking with my wife about how weird we both felt when we watched this lady April Rose share a video (connected to the IHOP stuff) and she just seemed to have a standing smile that never changed. It felt weird. And even that language "just let go" I remember a guy who had followed the Todd Bentley stuff using it toward me and it was definitely off I felt. I wonder what is being "poured out" as they say. Anyways, just wanted to share that. Praise God for growing in discernment 🙏
@@wordsoflife42 BAM! BAM! BAM! Hehe a little Todd Bentley as its a retro day. Who can forget Todd "bam bam" Bentley. In hindsight we should have realized then we had deep leadership issues in the Charsmatic church. All those quote/unquote men of God slaying hands on that twitching swaying lost soul and hailing it as some kind of revival. Everyone knew it would not end well. And everyone was correct.
@@knowsmebyname Lol I didn't know this about bam bam. Makes me think of an old wrestler I watched as a kid named "Bam Bam Bigelow" 😆
😭 The Lord bless you.
Thank you for your continuous investigation into MB and IHOPKC. I'm in the UK but I was greatly influenced by MB and his "ministry"😔 I even participated in the 40 day fast last year 2023 (though only for 5 straight days).
I suppose the good thing that has come out of all this drama for me is that I'm more discerning & less religious💯👍🏾🇬🇧
I think there were many 5 day, 40 day fast people. I was watching a video Mike B did when he said from stage "we are on day 26 (approx) of our 40 day water fast" and it just popped in my head that Mike was not telling the truth. He wasn't fasting. His face was fleshy and full and his stomach hung heavy over his belt and he just didnt look like a person on a 3 week water fast.
God allowed me to see what you're seeing now back in April 2008 when Bentley came to prominence amidst the clamour of what I'd come to know as the NAR false prophets and apostles.
Then came 13 years in a dry, intellectual, human wisdom driven Calvinist church - which I escaped from due to C19.
Two years out of fellowship ended when I stumbled into an ELIM UK church, where God met with me as He did in the beginning. However....
I am hearing the same buzz words and phrases that the NAR crowd used to say. A billion soul harvest (Bob Jones), appreciative and nostalgic nods to the Toronto 'Blessing', quotes from false teachers, naming false teachers as great men and women of God. I am also seeing the occasional instance of sheep beating, guilt tripping and works righteousness.
I'm replying to your comment because 'we' also were doing a corporate 5 day fast as part of some 40 day fast. Were you affiliated with an ELIM or similar fellowship when the call went out to fast? I ask because I'm discerning far too much in the present day that has its roots in a bad tree.
Blessings in Christ
@@godsstruggler8783 no my friend I am not. But I appreciate your post and personal accounting and share your concern.
And it does my heart warm to hear from a fellow sojourner who is just seeking a safe place to worship. We are asked to make toi many compromises at nearly every stop.
@@knowsmebynameThank you and may we both grow in the knowledge of Jesus Christ through the minefields and hold to the simplicity of that first love.
No, I'm not a part of Elim.
I did some online Courses with Randy Clark's Global Awakening and learnt many bad practices from him, I just didn't know it at the time😔 Bill Johnson, Kris Vallatton & a few other NAR people have books that are used as part of the various Courses: Prophecy, Emotional Healing, Deliverance, Physical Healing.
Another good thing that has come from the MB deception drama is that I'm now understanding how many New Age methods are preached and taught as Holy Spirit inspiration🤨
The classic method is when we are encouraged to "stretch your hands toward" the person that is being prayed for. For the first time this year I actually questioned why do we do that! What is the Scriptural basis for that practice? When did we first doing that in church? Before MB I would never of even considered what it was all about, I would have blindly followed on👍🏾
It makes me feel good that Jack Deere wrote this. These details about Paul Cain are so sad. What a broken and deceitful man. This is so sad. Keep you the great work guys.
You can not restore a false , abusive narcissist,they wear a mask to deceive and are deceived themselves. I don't believe they are beyond the grace of God but the problem is they don't think they need to repent and turn from sin,they love the darkness and you know them by their fruit.
Amen... Love your Wife.. Love your Family...Be humble..
Love God with all your heart ❤️
Jesus Help us ❤
I’ve been glued, literally glued to your channel since I saw it on my RUclips feed a few weeks ago. This topic is so interesting, important and yet devastating at the same time. Maybe it’s because I’m older…don’t know, I’m going to be 64, but nothing about IHOPKC or NAR, or Bethel Church ever interested me. ( And I am a Charismatic Christian) I always felt something was off. Now all this is coming out and I’m floored! The more I hear about this, the more it sounds like a cult. You are doing a great job. I hope you continue.
Blessings and Shalom.
Like you, Angel, I am older and am of a Pentecostal background, yet 14:25 14:25 14:25 was never drawn to these types of ministries, maybe because I prayed a lot for God’s discernment. I thank God that I’ve never been tangled up in the lies and deceit of false profits. I did, however, used to listen to John Paul Jackson, and after hearing all the sadness of so many being deceived, I have begun to wonder if John Paul was a part of all this deception since I used to hear him mention the names of many of those involved at IHOPKC. Does anyone know?
@@katehalper5688 , I think so. However, let’s do our due diligence and research this.
Shalom.
Oxymoron 🤣😂 Your brilliant Kristina, yep Blaze you are a Blessed man. Love you two !
It sounds like Mike sent Jack a veiled threat with the mention of Ernie G. The thought is, "You don't want to end up like Ernie G. You know what happens when someone speaks ill of the 'Lord's anointed.'" Yuck!
‘Just because something is true or it happens it doesn’t mean it’s from The Holy Spirit’ I think that’s an excellent point. Coming from a charismatic point of view myself.
You guys are amazing. I love your willingness to expose the darkness in love and power
Thank you guys for being faithful to pursue the things you feel God is leading you to.
12:22 Where did Shawn Bolz admit to Facebook mining?🤔
Appreciate you B & C. Keep exposing the deeds of darkness
Thank YOU Lord for Your Light ! !!!! Yes ! I’m so wowed by the manipulation of Mike . My mind continues to be blown . Love U guys . Yall are so real and know what’s Up .
My best friends got involved in IHOPKC like 5 years ago. Before they moved, I warned and begged them, after I ended up watching ALL the prophetic history. That was my intro to IHOP. Witnessing that nonsense and losing those friends got me, as a young teen, entrenched in theology and apologetics. I thank God for using something difficult to draw me to Himself, and I pray ardently for both healing and justice for everyone involved. Thanks Blaise and Christina!
That letter! The ramblings of a narcissist. He uses his words to control. Trying to control everyone’s actions and perceptions. Who does he think he is??
Wow, that email from Mike Bickle to Paul Cain starting around 45:30 is *crazy*.
Prophetic history = oxymoron😂
You two are doing amazing work... thank you!
That letter to JD could be used as a textbook on how to exercise selfish ambition cloaked as pastoring. Pure, masterful evil.
2:00 "What is the prophetic history? It sounds like an oxymoron." LOL That was funny. Good one Christina!
Also at 4:00. Christina again. "Condescending." Thats the word Austin was searching for regarding Mike Bickle responding to his questions of the propgetic history. Austin was a good guest. He clearly needs room to answer questions. A very thoughtful young man who when given space provides good content.
Mike Bickle said this would all blow over in a year or so. How wrong he has been. The destruction of his kingdom of lies is still growing. Mike come clean and repent. We all want to forgive you. With full and complete repentance with you you can then rest in the peace of Jesus and be welcomed back into his family of believers. That is the legacy your family needs to see. Humility. Come on home Mike.
@@BestBibleVersionDotCom i am not the moderator between Jesus and any man. I would advise anybody that asked not to assume who and what Jesus wants to forgive.
@@BestBibleVersionDotCom another in a long line of youtube know it alls. A dime a dozen. An endless stream of posters with life all figured out and looking for someone...anyone to enlighten. You are on record that you know who and who not Jesus will forgive. I am hitting the ignore button. Arrogance terrifies me.
@@knowsmebynamethe comment is right, however. There‘s an exact Bible verse talking about the one sin God will not forgive. And that is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. Everything else is forgivable.
@@frizzyrascal1493 i know what he is talking about. I just don't think any man should judge another. Theres a verse about that too.
@@knowsmebyname Respectfully, that's where I disagree with you. We are called to test everything and we automatically judge people (subconsciously, that's how our brains work).
However, we will be judged by the same standard we judge others with. We are mandated according to John 7:24 "Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgement."
Notice that the word "judge" is in the present tense and we should do it with righteousness (according to the biblical standard).
What I'm not saying is that one should condemn anyone, because that is God's judgment, not ours to make.
Yes, Accountability is needed! We have different days of prayer meetings at our church!
This has links to the NAR movement as well, especially in Southeast Asia. There are House of Prayers all over the world. Wimber, Paul Caine, Jack Deere came to Singapore in early 1990s. It had a huge impact on the churches in Singapore. I am unpacking all the threads of my own theological foundations . I keep coming back to the words of Jesus in John 15. How we need to remain in the Vine.
It is daunting to have to realize that your own theology might be way off track now - having to reevaluate myself!!
@@meganreger6942 It is daunting. You are not alone. Read the Word again for yourself, with the help of the Holy Spirit who dwells in you. Meditated on Jeremiah 17:5-9 yesterday.
Public ministry that offends (preys upon) the vulnerable must be exposed publicly. We have no record of Jesus going Matt 18:1 with the Pharisees before He laid into them in chapter 23.
Thank you Blaise and Christina for sharing the unpublished draft that was supposed to be part of Jack Deere’s third book regrading the voice of God. While I appreciate Deere’s forthrightness in assessing Paul Cain’s character, I do not believe Paul Cain operated by the Spirit of God. Simply put, the idea of 3 different types of prophets is not supported by Scripture. The Bible never uses the term carnal prophets. It only speaks of genuine prophets of God and false prophets. Respectfully to Deere and Blaise, Matthew 7:21-23 does not teach the workers of iniquity (v 23) formerly operated by God-given spiritual power. Please reread the text. Verse 21 says not everyone claiming to be part of the heavenly kingdom actually are and v. 23 declares they never were. These people, Jesus says, will claim they prophesied and cast out demons in God’s name. Jesus’ response does not suggest they indeed did those things. If that’s what Jesus meant He would have said so but he did not.
People like Paul Cain operate by deceit. Their source of prophetic information is a conglomeration of evil supernatural workings, and in the case of personal prophecies, is derived through natural means. Paul Cain was William Branham’s protege who trafficked in trickery long before there was the internet. Paul learned his craft well from Branham. As for healings, I’m convinced most of what passes today in the American church for God’s healing power is genuine. That is not to say I believe God no longer heals. Like both of you, I still believe in the charismatic gifts of the Spirit for today’s church. If people were ever genuinely healed under people like Paul Cain it was either through lying signs and wonders or it was the result of God responding to faith on the part of a sick person. False prophets and teachers do not “traffic” in God’s power. There is not one Bible verse that says this and that includes 1 Thessalonians 5:19-21.
You guys are wonderful Christian people and I’m thrilled that you are doing these podcasts. You are helping a lot of people. You are spot on with your comments on the evil nature of these past and present icons of the so-called modern day prophetic movement.
Prophecy is a gift for today’s church but this movement stinks to high heaven. It is not of God but false and it appears God is currently tearing it down.
You said that Shawn Bolz has used and admitted to Facebook data mining for his prophetic words. I have never heard this before. Can you please post a link or provide some evidence for this?
Appreciate your content! I'd like to see you guys do an interview with John Collins. His revival history podcast is extremely thorough in going over what influenced William Branham and how Branham influenced Paul Cain, which led to NAR movements like IHOPkc and others. Again, I appreciate the scriptural perspective on these matters. Ultimately in the book of Acts, the signs and wonders were simply following the message of the gospel and the focus was on Christ and Him crucified, and not on miraculous signs - they were the means of authenticating the message and demonstrating Christ's compassion on the sick. May God help us to balance the command God gives by Paul to "earnestly desire spiritual gifts" yet not have an ungodly desire for power, but rather to see God glorified by saving people and displaying His power as He sees fit.
Yes, get John on here.
Yes
8:07 There are standards in the Bible for pastors. I guess the IHOPKC leaders ripped 1 Timothy out of their Bibles.
I’m in 💯agreement with you. I mentioned in another podcast that my husband pastor had been exposed in his double life. He was apart of a large denomination. If I mentioned the name you would know about it. His denomination coddled him while black balling my daughter in law for speaking truth. We as his wife and children have been judged and criticized for leaving him and refusing to have any contact with him. Jacke Deere seems to be describing my situation. Paul Cains assistant bailed my former husband out of jail. Hmmm. I am sickened by this horrible sin in the body of Christ. I am not bitter. I was able to fully forgive my former husband for his sexual sin, his embezzlement, his lying and his manipulation of me over a span of 45 yrs. He has now met his maker. I truly hope he repented. But only God knows. My point is so many are so damaged by this demonic behavior operating in church. God help us. I am so free to move forward. I owned my own by allowing myself to be deceived. Operating with orphan thinking. Thanks to my amazing children, his sin was exposed. They stood for truth and with me as their mother. God is good and faithful. ❤
Can you give a link to the Shawn Bolz admission? That needs to get more air.
Amen.
I’m thinking the same thing
Just curious, why hasn’t anyone asked Shawn Bolz about what he saw at IHOP? Wasn’t he there during a lot of these times?
He learned a lot there.
@@alanhawkins_44Was he trained by Paul Cain to copy his scheme?
Shawn Bolz is a fake as the rest of them
When did Sean Boltz admit to FB mining?
Where can I find where Shaun Boltz used fb to do prophecy. I know someone who is planning on attending Bethels ssm
Shawn Bowlz- is there an article or video about him
Admitting FB mining?
I don't know if he has ever admitted it, but there are plenty of videos exposing it.ruclips.net/video/jLn4dsf8zxQ/видео.htmlsi=qXk60zVqDZCxT9N_
It's the exact reasoning of the narcissist. Preying on what he perceives to be people's self interests.
Where can I find the info on Shawn Bolz FB mining? I didnt know that
WOW!!!! This THIS is how liars lie! This is what true watchmen (Jack Deere) endure when they expose and warn! This is how satan (in Paul Cain's life) can masquerade as an angel of light. (2 Corinthians 11:13-15) This should cause us all to examine ourselves and repent for anything we are being deceived of and pray for revelation of truth! Deception continues to be rampant and we are warned about this in Matthew 24:4. Take heed!!!
A compromised life causes a person to be partaking of both spirits. So familiar spirits are familiar with any persons past life or previous history. That's how a compromised 'minister' can prophesy to a person about their past. Familiar spirits.
“The testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy”
Rev 19:10
No Jesus no prophecy
Sadly we have elevated gift over character for far too long.
My favorite channel rn
I really enjoy them too. Aren't they an excellent example of a married team? They love each others company and it just shows imo.
You two are my favorite! I always feel like your points are so right on. This one was really helpful for one who was one of the young people at KCF from 83 to 92. Great unpacking-Thanks :)
Stephen Deere’s substack article, ‘IHOPKC Figure Aided Other Abusers, Sought to Buy "Forgiveness" shares the tragic story of his brother Scott’s death and Paul Cain’s bizarre advice and statement to his father, Jack at the time. My heart goes out to Jack and his family. So much pain in his life. Then he recently learns of Mike’s colossal betrayal.
I just read this. My jaw hit the ground. How incredibly tragic for the Deere family.
@@WriteByLisaYes. I’ve never followed Jack. But a few days ago, I watched a recording from The Remnant Radio, and the teaching he provided on the prophetic was so good. I plan to start buying his books and look for more of his teaching. I get a knot in my throat, when I think of him. He thought Mike was his friend. So many have thought the same. I’m cleaning out drawers in my office and just came across IHOPKC, Mike Bickle teaching cds dating from 2004-2007. It was pretty weird. I wasn’t looking for them. And I know the Lord had me find them so that my husband and I can pray, then dispose of them. We are really in unprecedented times, like no other in history. 🙏🏼
We can seek the Lord and find the Supernatural. And we can seek the Supernatural and find the Supernatural. Externally, they look very similar. However, one will lead to "Well done, good and faithful servant" and the other will lead to "Depart from me, I never knew you". We, as believers in Christ, much be sure that we are seeking Him, not just His works.
I appreciate this young couple's wisdom. They are very balanced in their discussion of spiritual abuse. I wish I'd had as much wisdom as they do when I was their age. Back then, I was in a church where there was spiritual abuse happening, but blissfully ignorant about it. And it was only last year that I finally realized that the first church I was a part of after getting saved in 1972 was not only into the discipleship error. but also an offshoot of William Branham's cult. Duh! But I got very blessed there by the worship songs we were taught, which Holy Spirit often brings out of my spirit to edify me, and there was some good teaching among the false. I think the best thing I ever heard was right at the beginning of my walk with God when my pastor, Ern Baxter said, "Get to know the Bible really well and examine everyone's teaching to see if it lines up with the Bible, including mine."
I enjoyed Blaise's quip near the end where he said that when he read someone's letter exposing some minister's errors, he laughed and said, "Oh, he's bitter."
They are so right that people should not be dismissed because they are still hurting from abuse. It takes some of us a long time to get over it. Like me, but all that time that people were annoyed when I talked about the past, I was putting a lot of work into sorting through what happened and trying to forgive. Bit by bit, year by year, I hated my parents less and loved them more. Finally, I had only a little bit of bitterness towards my mother, but even that was so heavy and I said to the Lord, "I am so tired of carrying this." And just like that, He lifted the rest of it off of me. Wow. It sure feels good to not be angry at her anymore, though sometimes in my dreams, I find myself yelling at her, then I know, "Oh, there's still some there. Well, please take that away, too, Lord."
So true, what you've written here.
you should check out the interview John Collins did with Awen Dunning on the channel "leaving the message". Awen was a member of IHOP when it started and a part of that "special" "Bible study" group with the original Jane Doe. She also knew Cain and Jones. She mentioned that she opened up to Bickle about some things that were later "prophesied" to her by Cain... it is very interesting and might be supportive. God bless you and keep you
D. Clasen had a similar experience as Awen D. where he shared personal information with Mike Bickle which was then fed to Paul Cain, who used it for prophetic manipulation. It's written up in his online report entitled "Vintage Metro." I wish there had been a real prophet in KC at the time who could have wrecked Cain live, either with revelation of his fraud, and/or give him a deadline to confess otherwise he would die as quickly as Ananias/Sapphira.
I have been listening to your videos, quite frankly, because my walk with the Lord (since 1975) has connected me to many of the subjects of your investigations. I move in the prophetic, but I have never had any leading to follow the ministries of the Kansas City prophets or Mike Bickle. I could go on and on, but right now, I wanted to share what I listened to today. I listened to John Paul Jackson’s message called “the perfect storm”which was given at iHopKC. If you haven’t heard it, you need to. Considering what was going on in the ministry….John Paul Jackson nailed the sin issue. I can only wonder if certain leaders were squirming in their seats. He also nailed so much of what is going on in the world right now.
The video is on RUclips. Check it out. I guess you could have been there when he spoke!
Is there a link?
The church as a whole has had a history of elevating gifts above fruit. Gifts are given "without repentance" (Romans 11:29) but fruit is cultivated. God is tearing down the altars/platforms of man and showing us what is REALLY important to Him. Fruit > gifts
I can't believe the leaders didn't know of the abuse.
THEY DID
They did, but if they pointed it out, the people they were abusing would have realized what was going on
Thy did
Isaac Bennet is still talking to mb and doing every single thing Bickle tells him
Thanks for your post people need to know the truth
I was discouraged (but not surprised) to hear that Shawn Bolz admitted to FB mining. What was your source for that info? I couldn't find one
12:17 "Shawn Bolz has been outed for Facebook Mining and admitted to it" - Can you please provide citation?
Okay wait I need more info on the Shawn bolz thing. I used to listen to him but the past few years it seems like he just covers every base with his prophetic words and some of it is just extremely obvious stuff with the economy so I’ve been sus
And in regards to Joyner's restoring Todd Bentley, which happened very quickly, Bentley went on to more egregious sins not just with women, but young men.......
No. Bentley never stopped. He was doing those things before the restoration. Doing them during. Doing them after. His previous church covered for him which is why the people involved in his restoration at the time, thought it was on the up and up. Finally Bentley was never "restored". He left the process mid way through.
In Japanese the word for sin can also mean a crime. I consider these prophets now to be criminals in that they were doing things that were illegal ( sexual involvement with minors, fraud, lies). We need to start recognizing that secular organizations have to hold their workers legally accountable and the church, who are meant to be “ salt and light” are not doing that. I’m deeply grieved but I believe God has been exposing false foundations.
You can have an amazing gift from the Lord and because of a lack of repentance eventually be given over to a spirit of divination. 2 years ago I taught a class and I asked what’s more important character or gifts? I used Cain as an example.
Isn’t the answer obvious??
I’ve always had the utmost respect for Jack Deere .
So many of us have been affected by what has happened at IHOP. Even if we were never a part of IHOP, the teachings and prophecies have permeated the Charismatic churches. Many of the beliefs concerning the end time revival, signs and wonders, spiritual authority, the generation of the manifested sons of God, and the second coming of Christ have shaped our lives. The deep desire to give ourselves completely to God to be used greatly by Him runs deep in our hearts. The eager looking for the time of fulfillment captivated and looking toward those that would lead us. These beliefs are older than Mike Bickle, but we see them now coming together at IHOP. It seems to be a good time to look at the fruit and to examine our own hearts. These teachings hang together and influence those that follow them. When an authoritarian person comes along, the followers are groomed and susceptible to spiritual abuse.
Thank you Blaise for stating that we should be looking to Jesus Christ. He is the one who died for us. He loves us, forgives our sins, and gives us life and salvation. May we ask His forgiveness and look to Him and His Word.
“ you are bitter “ ahhh… that’s what my pastor said to me for asking h questions. Utter and angry because I’m not getting my way and he told everyone on staff.
Very common tactic when you start seeing the truth.
I think what always turned me off was when bickle spoke so much about catholic mysticism. Qnd he was into it. But catholicism is not even Christian. I'm sorry. That scared me. But anyways. I hope this doesn't start some kind of argument with anyone. That's not my goal. It was just something that made me uncomfortable
Wow! Didn’t know that about Bickle. I know that Rick Joyner joined a Catholic group a few years ago. I thought that was strange and way, way off!
@@angelirohival6270 Bickle was a Catholic charismatic in some ways. He had a strange mixture of ideas. He went to a Presbyterian church for some time. He certainly didn't grow up in a charismatic church. He was not very charismatic though. He never had any spiritual gifts. He just pretended he heard from God and made up stories. Basically, a fake charismatic but charismatics embraced him, even without him having any spiritual gifts. That is odd but charismatics love stories, and he had lots of "powerful stories," so they loved him.
There’s a photo online with Mike the Pope and Todd White
Thankyou for helping us process. The honesty and authenticity is so so so refreshing and life giving, it’s helpful and points us to Jesus. God bless you both for your faith
THANK YOU JACK DEERE!!!! THANKS FOR TELLING THE TRUTH!!!
Well, it's a pretty good chapter about Paul Cain, eh, finally telling the Body of Christ about the wolf under the sheep's clothing. Thank you, Jack Deere. You are a dear. The Body of Christ is entitled to know the truth, instead of being sucked in by the endorsements of Paul Cain's "ministry" by those who piggybacked on it.
Paul couldn't tell the Gospel?! ! Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: And every spirit that confesses not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. 1Jn. 4:1-3
I disagree with Jack Deere on this idea of unbelievers using God’s power!!!!! That is NOT Biblical. My goodness!!
Matthew 7:21-23 Maybe they weren't using His power, but they were using His name. Not everyone ends up like the 7 sons of Sceva, and not everyone who lies about giving ends up like Ananias and Sapphira... It will all come out on That Day.
Ok unbelievers using satanic power masquerading as God's power
@@louisaisthankful6455 using his name is literally using his power. Especially in 1st century Jewish perspective, there was power in Holy Names. There is really no culturally relevant way to read those passages, that do not lead to the conclusion that they were doing miracles, healings and prophecy in the name(power of) Jesus.
Jesus said that many will come in his name and will perform many miracles yet they never knew him.
This should be used in a textbook on narcissism
Die große endzeitliche Verführung dieser Prediger und Propheten.
First of all, I love you two! I thank the LORD for your testimony!
Great comments 👍
I love you guys.
Among other things, Bickle might consider this, an economy of words.
Please do a show(s) on Bob Jones as well - and thank you for bringing this info together
Having been quite active at KCF/MCF in the 80's (left in 89), my experience with Bob Jones has me viewing him quite differently than I view Mike Bickle and Paul Cain. Is any there evidence of Bob's sexual sin being serial, or of him pulling information from a phone book that he claimed to be prophetic? I am not aware of any.
Much of the prophecies of these guys are divination and are occcultic in nature. Just because someone prophesied and it was true that this is the persons name and his address and other personal details are spot on DOES NOT mean this is of the Holy Spirit. Discerning the spirits is
Crucial and much much needed.
Bob Jones used to teach and claimed to practice the Third Heaven at Will heresy which is arguably a demonic fake spiritual experience. But even if you set aside that one aspect, the question of demonic influence from repeating the same sin is never discussed about Jones or Bickle. This, even though traditional charismatic teaching says repeated sin gives Satan a stronghold, and eventually even demonic control. How many lies can someone tell or times can they deceive before they get a lying spirit or a deceiving spirit? If anyone has an argument to explain how Bickle could do what he did so many times (lying, deceiving, adultery, abusing) and not be literally possessed by demons of lying and deceiving and adultery, I'd like to hear it. There's that whole teaching about sin... foothold... stronghold... The consequences get worse and worse.
Preach it!!! 👏 👏 👏 👏 Louder for the people in the back! Someone who says what needs to be said! How much we've lost our discernment in the Charismatic/Pentecostal church.
Chad Norris was recently outed as well. I didn't know about Shawn Bolz.....so sad that this is happening
Thank you!!
Thank you for digging for the truth and warning others. It is so good to see you share your expeeience also Blaise. My prayer is that YHWH uses you two to set many others free from these cults. They are popping up everywhere! We are definitely moving quickly towards that great and terrible day!
Oh my goodness, Bickle's email is like a master class in manipulation. I wonder if he has a template he uses for these types of exchanges. The real lesson, however, is this is what it looks like to love the praises of men more than the praise of God and do whatever it takes to keep the former intact. Truly frightening!
Good work. I left the message (founded by Branham) last year.
These false teachers should be rebuked by true believers in Jesus; as their teachings have caused many problems for people.
This is a simple matter of right and wrong.
What im surprised about is that "this" is what pulled him out of hiding to correspond.....and has still NOT repented, confessed shown humility ! Ehhhhhhhh
That letter! His whole motive he is pushing is “protect your reputation and mine.” Smh yuck
At 39:50, referring to Jack Deere's statement that some unbelievers "traffic" in the Lord's power - does anyone who is familiar with Deere's work know if he ever cites a scriptural reference to support this claim? Does he interpret Jesus' statement about judgment day, when people He never knew will protest that they did mighty works in His name, to mean that they WERE actually acting under the power of the Holy Spirit?
He makes it sound like the power of the Holy Spirit is akin to the "Force" in Star Wars, and just anybody can access it.
Fascinating series regarding what was happening at IHOP KC. I’ve seen almost every video you have produced. Excellent work.
Would you be able to point me to any references regarding William Branham and Sean Bolz and their false prophecies? Studying the names and addresses of people in the churches where they were preaching? I have never, ever heard that before. That was very interesting. I first heard about William Branham in a book from many years ago called “God’s Generals“. I thought he was a true man of God…
John Collins is a former cult member of Branham's message cult is now releasing all sorts of information about William Branham that debunks everything that most charismatics took as true stories.
Just look up William Branham historical research.
ruclips.net/video/DDX0V5SaOV8/видео.htmlsi=7a7oi75lQNg8nEgf
@@andrewhambling Thank you. I found a great deal on RUclips by him and others regarding William Branham. Do you know where I could find information about Shawn Bolz being a false prophet?
When I was a baby Christian in the 1970s, I went to Ern Baxter's church. He said that Branham was a great prophet, but not strong in the Word. I think he should have elucidated on what exactly it was that Branham taught that was in error. Some of my friends believed that doctrine about the serpent's seed. I would never listen to them because it was so ridiculous and perverted. Much more than I ever guessed, after listening to the Leaving the Message channel.
I pretty much accepted the opinion that Branham was a mightily anointed prophet of God, just on the say so of my friends and preachers I respected, but then I read a transcript of him ranting about having gone to a mall and seeing women with their daughters shopping there, that they were vain and silly and he despised their green eyeshadow. He said he had a vision of Hell where he saw these women with their green eyeshadow. I forget what he called them, but something along the line of being mindless idiots.
After I read this, I realized he hated women, and totally lost interest in anything else he had to say. And this was before I learned that he said women were worse than dogs and hogs! And that he preached against them wearing bras. Or wearing wigs, though he wore a toupee.
I figured that his mother slapped him around a lot when he was a kid and he hadn't gotten over it. He sure had it in for women.
And he was a lout. He bragged that when he got married, he could afford only a honeymoon, or a hunting trip, so he took his wife on a hunting trip, and that every anniversary he had after that, he went on a hunting trip. Sometimes it was with those two men who were in charge of his tape ministry, and apparently, they were both homosexual.
I can't help but think this must be similar to what it was like for Joseph Smith and the birth of Mormonism.
It feels like we are watching the birth and evolution of a cult that has gained a foothold on a portion of the body of Christ.
It makes me so mad hearing the level of arrogance in that email.
People can be asleep, awake, aware. Why, why, why stop at awake? Read the masterpiece novel “Where Do We Go Now, LORD? - Burke.” Go from awake to aware, to get out of stuck place after NAR hurts.
This is just so eye opening… since all this came out I’ve kind of left off listening to “famous preachers” that I don’t know… I had a dream YEARS ago where Mike Bickle was so TIRED…as I remember, it had a sense of him operating in his own strength. it felt like it was from God but I pretty much wrote it off bc surely Mike Bickle was right in line with God, I couldn’t imagine him being off in a significant way.
I never picked up on insincerity at all… part of me still really thinks he was actually sincere.
"Mike is still sincere". We have to understand that this type of "sincerity" counts for nothing in scripture. One can be sincere, but sincerely wrong, or in other words deceived. To cloak unrighteousness and sin with the word sincere is a grave mistake. Scripture talks about "godly sincerity ". There's no godly sincerity in this case, but loads of deception.
Narcissism