Power Off 180's - MzeroA Flight Training
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- Опубликовано: 24 авг 2024
- m0a.com It's one of the more difficult commercial pilot maneuvers to perform - The power off 180. However it a maneuver I don't wait until commercial pilot to teach even my private pilot students all know and perform power off 180's. I believe it's crucial to learn the glide characteristics of your aircraft.
I want to say to everyone here. I meet Jason in St. Charles at one of his seminars. He is one of the most gracious individuals I have ever meet. Also he is an inspiration to all pilots about giving back to other pilots. He and his family have a great model for a business and success. Thanks for everything Jason you are one hell of a entrepreneur my friend. I wish great success for you and your family.
Thank you for the kind words my friend! It was a pleasure to meet you.
jason chirped one of my CFI buddies in virginia for asking for pattern work in a busy Class D
Cool
I'm in the military and can't use my tuition assistant for about a year but I'm trying to watch as many of these videos as I can in the mean time so that I can learn as much as possible. I've got to say that watching these videos makes me really anxious to start learning how to fly.
You'll get there my friend!!! Thank you for your service and being such a blessing to all of us. Keep me posted on your success
David Daniels I’ve done some research and TA doesn’t cover much for flying (specially for a Private Pilot Certificate) but you can use your GI Bill after that under part 141 (not 61). I recommend you contacting your education center on base, check online resources and contact a community college nearby that offer that kind of certifications and talk to their VA representatives. Good luck out there!
David, I am retired military and I agree with the person that mentioned tuition assistance is not that great a deal. I am using my G.I. Bill and it only pays about a third of my instrument and commercial. It would be far cheaper to find an instructor and fly part 61 rather than a VA approved part 141 course. If you are in full-time college, that situation is different. Do your homework your G.I. Bill benefits are not that good anymore for Aviation because people have abused it in the past.
I have an all new respect for my instructor. I'm a new student pilot with only 8 hrs and 12 landings. On my third lesson we did power off approaches with a full length of the runway low approach. Now all the landings ive done so far have been power off 180 approaches first in calm air now with about 10mph crosswind. I didn't realize this was a commercial requirement.
Uncle Larry is the King of no flap landings !!
The airport I took my checkride at is on a mountain ridge. Waiting more than 5 seconds before turning straight to the runway sticks you in a downdraft sucking you down into oblivion. Only choice if winds are favoring that runway was to turn after only a few seconds and slip it all the way through your turn till short final. DPE said she thought I was done for after she had handed me my cert.
Damn, Quadfather. Those legs are taking up all the useful load!
Great job Uncle Larry!
I've done a lot of "power off" landings.. In fact, all I have ever done is power off landings.. Remember to emphasize rudder coordination on those pattern turns.
Jason, 9/22/17 I flew as PIC for first time since 4/1981. The wait was long but well worth it. The diamond da40 is sweet compared to aeronca champ I soloed at age 16 after 7 hrs of instruction. Your channel helped bring me up to speed. Many Thank, Al
I have always been told that you shouldn't aim to put the aircraft down on the numbers. If you lose power (assuming you had it on the approach) or if you get a sudden gust of headwind, you may end up too low and not make the runway. Aiming for something further down like the thousand footers gives you more margin to put it down earlier if you have to
Thanks for the insight!
Great and important input!
Fantastic videos as always but would recommend to use a map as to show where u are when explaining things, and remember a good pilot is always learning.
I really thank you, I tried for the first time after I saw your video and 3 over 3 were perfect on the number !!! great Instructor !!!
I have a lot of experience practicing P180's but always according to the conditions, not a prescribed method. Since I always enjoy Jason's videos I decided to try this method with two of my students. Winds were calm, we did the 10 second count, and it never worked out. I think some more detailed instruction would have been helpful, unless I missed it? SO the questions I have are as follows: 1) what angle of bank is being used, and is it being increased or decreased (i.e. changing the field spacing) to make the field?; 2) other than flaps, does the method ever require slipping?; 3) Why 10 seconds?; and 4) Is this method supposed to work in all wind conditions? What about strong winds that carry you further along the downwind and then make it difficult to make the field with a strong headwind?
Something new to try this weekend. Have to see which technique I like better.
I never was that calm practicing this specific maneuver. I always treated power-off 180 as if I really lost my engine. Only one time I had to go around executing this maneuver. And all of them were done on Piper Archer and Arrow. Never practiced on Cessna. One time my instructor took us to 7,000 MSL , in Lufkin, TX. We were about 3 miles to the airfield on that altitude and he said: you lost your engine. I don’t care what you do, just land this plane safely; carb heat on, pitched for the best glide speed, spiraling down , down wind, 180( no base) and landed . He didn’t think I’d make it. I did !
Wow! Great story, Wagner. Glad that you're instructor gave you scenarios like that, they're always great to practice!
That was awesome, well done guys!
Hi Jason, What is the lateral separation you keep from the runway on downwind?
Not jason, and I know I'm very late, but if you are still curious, I keep about 1 mile between the plane and the runway on downwind. The cessna glides clean about 9:1, so you would get 9000 feet of glide from pattern altitude, manning that 5280ft away gives you a solid safety margin for turns and flaps. It's better to use the strut refrence though, which is about 2/3 down the strut on your side, or half way down the strut if there is a seat between you and the window.
*I am not a flight instructor, and what I said does not constitute flight instruction. I am merely a 120 hour private pilot working on my commercial pilot license.
Don’t know why but this maneuver is giving me a really hard time for some reason, I either end up too high and float way past my point or end up too low and not making the point, so I guess I just have to find that sweet spot, but I’m not sure how to.
what a G no flap landing, I'll be trying that tomorrow for power off 180
Good information and the video does a good demonstration of technique.
Awesome examples of how to butter the bread, guys.
Any chance you can use something like cloudahoy to show what the speed and decent profiles were like on this?
It was interesting that for a shorter final leg Larry didn't use flap, compared to Jason extending the downwind and using 2 stages of flap for a touchdown at the same point.
Thanks Dominic
Instead of idle, abeam the numbers, you can cut power to around 1,200 rpm more or less. then add 10-15 degr. flaps, Whatever off idle power with some flaps will give you the same feet per minute descend as idle power with no flaps.
I called that setting "Simulated Idle". Better for the engine and plugs. Then due engine didnt cool down much, you can do a touch and go that students appreciate a lot due they dont want to spend 3 $ a minute on the taxiway as much as in the air. Salud..
Thanks for sharing!
@@MzeroAFlightTraining. Try that Simulated Idle setting. If you want make a video about that. Im not into making videos. Engine care is most important.
Thanks, you guys are great aviators!!!
you make it look so easy haha , how many hour do you have now
Pretty slick landing man. Love the vid's.
I see Larry used a 0 flaps landing and Jason used about 20 degree's. I am assuming it's just preference?
Hey Jason, curious as to why the numbers or the stripe after the numbers is used? My instructor recommends the 1000-foot markers which adds the safety of runway prior to your touchdown point, which seems safer to me. Thoughts?
Your DPE might ask for the numbers and if you don't have practice hitting them (using aiming points before the runway) you'll have a hard time on your checkride.
In the beginning, you said to reduce power. Are you reducing all the way to idle before base? That's what I just learned yesterday. Also instead of counting to 10 seconds, I'm looking at airspeed instead and holding back pressure until I get my glide speed (65).
Hey Mark!
Some procedures depend on the type of aircraft you're flying. But when you're actually in the turn you need to be at power idle so that will usually be either abeam your touchdown point or just before your base.
Nice video, but how did Larry gain altitude? 590ft at 4'40" and 790ft at 4'56" ;)
Great video thanks for the tips!
Excellent
Awesome video, cheers
I am struggle bus with power off 180's. Flying a DA40 and I can't seem to manage my energy very well. I'm always way too high or way too short
You can do it! Keep practicing and continually making adjustments for winds and your altitude. You'll get it!
Your a the best teacher
Someone help me understand my my power off 180vs are always either too short or too long. I can never seem to get the wheel down right on the money.
Hi! Thanks for your comment. Please reach out to us at support@mzeroa.com and we will be more than happy to assist you with your power off 180's. Thanks for watching!
I love your videos and watched them through my entire training. Now as a licensed pilot, with my float rating and my own plane I am still an avid fan. I don't understand the math on this one. At the start of the procedure you were at 1250 feet. You were in an engine off glide for 2 minutes and 11 seconds, during which time you had up to 20 degrees of flaps in. Over those 131 seconds you descended down to a runway altitude of 511 feet. That's an engine off descent of 350fpm! It's been a bit since I last did this in a Cessna but is that really how well they float? At 65 knots you would travel forward roughly 110 feet per second. Given that you were in the air for 131,seconds that's a distance of 14'400 feet with an altitude lose of 740 feet equally a glide ratio of 19:1........ is my math wrong on this? Thanks! Kyle
Kyle Jenkin the glide ratio definitely isn't 19:1. But you are also cheating your math. The airspeed is 65kts but they also are doing several turns and higher load factor flight which will degrade the performance of the glide. They lose 700 ft, and fly over a mile, but less than two I'd say.
Looks great, but how do you compensate for wind.. and thermals, especially when downwind and short final are over water and when you get close to the runway the thermals from the land bump you up?
If you have significant headwind (that is a tailwind on the downwind leg), you turn "base" sooner. But your indicated approach speed never changes. You always trim for "best glide", and then when you add flaps, and are on final you have to maintain the usual approach speed for a landing, which is generally 1.3 Vso
Until I watched this video, I'd never heard of a power off 180. What's the purpose of this maneuver?
Practicing engine failure and hitting a point that you pick that is abeam your position. I also have to say it is good for precision landing. Those are my opinions and a little from what I have read. I am currently a student pilot (check ride a month from now for PPL) and have only read on these and watched others do them. As I understand it, it is a commercial license maneuver, but never hurts to learn those early IMHO.
Was that planned or was it the pressure of being filmed that Larry forgot to use any flaps? Would that be a failure in a check ride? Obviously he got the plane down safely, and that is what matters. So, I'm wondering....
No sir! You use any configuration that you want for the airplane! Just put it down on the point. Standards are 200Ft beyond your point.
Flaps?
Ah, what goes around, comes around.
50-55 years ago, Pwr-off 180s were the ONLY way CFI expected students to do approaches. Approaches With power were never allowed (unless they were IAPs). Now, it is just a commercial protocol?
(Of course, 50 years ago, the only way Stalls were acceptable was after the wings broke --- none of this: " recover when the stall warning bleeps ")
Hmm good to know wow
"power off 180" is a misnomer, which implies you can simply land on the runway, with your power cut off. The commercial maneuver is called a "power off 180 accuracy approach and landing" meaning you have to *hit a certain point on the runway,* just like you have to in a short field approach and landing, on the checkride. The commercial tolerances are much stricter. For the short field, you get +100/-0 feet, and is a very tight tolerance (you get 200 feet for the Private checkride), and you are given +200/-0 for the p/off.
i’m confused. looks like minimum power setting.
why not dead stick? make it real, like the aopa hybrid power psa
Not safe
Are you typically cutting your turn to base short or do you run a somewhat normal pattern in power off 180?
👍
Best glide is 68 kts in a C172 but your speed was consistently higher. I was thought to establish Vg first. What's the reason?
The ASI is in MPH. 68 kt = 78 mph.
65 kts in C172 skyhawk
What's your descent rate at Vg and distance from runway at base? I'm a student pilot and like practicing 180 power off landings, but I keep miscalculation my descent rate and base turn and end up having to power up to reach the runway. ( power off is my preferred landing method. ) I've seen 750fpm on my VI guage at maybe .4mi away with IAS 70 (Vg=68 - C-172S). I try the 45 degree method, but my results are not consistent. Consequently I start doing the novice thing of flattening my pitch, which of course only slows me down to 60.. that's when I power up, fail the power-off 180 attempt by turning it to a powered landing. I always think it's because I sank too fast. What do you think?
Sergio Pinheiro Dont watch the VSI. In a power off 180 you should have the airplane trimmed for best angle of glide. Then use your judgement as to when to start your base turn. Take the winds into account as well. The more tailwind you have on downwind the sooner you need to start turning towards the runway. Dont think of it as a math problem.
Best of luck!
Larry showed you up hahaha
Just make a video on power off 180, it’s no mean perfect, just trying to help those in their aviation journey
You guys know he doesn't own the planes right?
How tall are you bro?
Everyone has an Uncle Larry
Only problem I saw was that I didn’t hear or see your landing point. Was it 1000 footers or the numbers?
Sooooo... no pre-landing checklist, radio calls don't tell anyone WHERE he is or what he's doing, he aims for the numbers so he comes in way low and flat, and WTF is he doing with his hands??? THIS IS A TERRIBLE example. First, ALWAYS keep your hand on the throttle. Yes, you are simulating an engine out landing, but if something happens and you need to go around (during my commercial checkride, a pilot doing a straight in approach cut us off, for example), your hand should be where it's supposed to be. Second, ALWAYS do your checklists. Always. Third, when you call out your position and you are doing a short approach, TELL everyone where you are. But most important... ALWAYS aim for the 1000 foot markers. They are there for a reason. The PAPI, VASI, glideslope, etc. will put you right on the markers, yet we teach students to ignore them and aim for the numbers, essentially training pilots that 4 reds is "normal." I can't tell you how many GA pilots I've watched cross the threshold at 10 feet or less. Flaring over the grass to hit the numbers is death. You should always aim to cross the threshold at 50 feet and there are dozens of youtube videos showing what happens when you don't.