A Simple Fix For Steep Turns | PPL Flight Training
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- Опубликовано: 13 янв 2024
- Steep turns are not easy to master at first. Sometimes what you are lacking is something so simple and once the door is opened, things start to flow. In this video we try to pry that door open for Ella.
Enjoy the flight!
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Развлечения
Just thought of something. During training many moons ago, i struggled with steep turns. My instructor finally determined my issue was I was focusing too much on the instruments and wasnt looking outside the aircraft. One day he brought a large piece of cardboard and when doing steep turns, he put it over the instruments (at an angle only he could see so he could critique any altitude loss/gain). Finally the sight picture for steep turns clicked.
Pitch, Power, Trim. In that order.
And I notice also as I teach my student to fly, I harp on looking outside, I tell them to pick something outside and fly straight to it. Works almost every time. If they continue to look at instruments, I cover them up for a long time then surprise them with how well they fly without them. Then they believe me!
Lew, as a CFi, I teach the student to "fly" the steep turn with your sight picture, once they fly correctly, I teach them to "hold" a steep turn with Trim. There are different needs and scenarios for flying the steep turn in the real world so, by making the distinction between "flying" vs "holding" a steep turn early in the student's training, prepping for and passing the ACS becomes a breeze. My 2 cents. Love your videos!
I teach 3 methods for steep turns, NO TRIM, add power for the loss of altitude in the bank (usually 100-200 rpm) and holding the point of reference on the cowling for the right and left turn. Next I teach putting in 3 turns of up-trim for the left turn and go into the bank (trick is to remind the student not do a yanking pullback motion on the yoke, and after completion then put in one more up-trim turn for the right due to no left turning tendency that helps the left turn. I teach taking a quick look at the ball to ensure coordination. Love those accelerated stalls in a turn. Then after a couple of turns left and right, I have student do a hybrid method using power, trim and bank. Based on the student pilot performance, the student can decide what works for them to hold the ACS standards for a steep turn. I remind them to not look at the instruments because all they need is to look outside. I have found that looking at the instruments while in a steep turn leads to things happening quicker and the plane loses altitude fast in each steep turn. Hope this does not sound too complicated. It has worked for me for 16 years. By the way, my tough turn was to the left as a private and commercial pilot and to the right as an instructor. I believe it has to do with the sight picture on the side I was sitting on. Be well.
I personally like using trim in steep turns. About 2 1/2 rolls back in the archer I typically fly helps out a lot in my opinion. That being said, whatever works!
Edit: I noticed this later in the video as I'm watching it. I really appreciate the "note to the instructors out there..." comments. That stuff is really helpful for me!
I like using trim too. Makes it so much easier.
Have really enjoyed watching Ella and Jonathan moving so quickly in their training. Shows the quality of their instructor as well as their ability to adapt and be taught. Can't wait for the next one.
Great job, Ella! Awesome video, Lewis.
BeardedAv8r
Just wait til I start instructing them on Fortnite… 👀 hahaha thank you man! That means a lot for you to recognize what I’m doing with them and their abilities.
@@LewDixAviation Yeah, been watching for over 2 years now. Always love watching and rewatching your work. Keeps me motivated to be a better pilot. Now let's get that instrument lesson scheduled for later this year. ;)
Going on my discovery flight next weekend because of your channel Lewis!
That’s amazing! You must let me know how it goes!
Hell of an instructor! Trim is a big deal once you understand the benefits of it. My CFI had one student that tried steep turns without trim during his check ride, he didn't pass, had a discontinuance; I made sure that I had a full understanding of how to use trim in my steep turns and it was a non-issue during my check ride, the DPE actually commented "Ah, you know the trim trick", definitely a confidence boost.
Thank you!
Look at that proud instructor with that smug look of satisfaction 🤓
The moment I realized I was going to be a safe pilot was, as a student, when I made a base to final turn and heard the stall horn. I’d dropped my speed too much. Everything… and I mean EVERYTHING, left my mind but this: “nose down!” Regained my speed, stabilized my approach and made a reasonable landing. We won’t be perfect in all our maneuvers even when certificated. But we CAN always be safe and put safety first.
Happened to me too! First cross country solo. Pucker factor was 100%
love these, it's half about seeing a CFI at work and half about seeing the light bulb on the student.
Haha thanks mate!
I love steeps turns and I use 3 turns of trim for left and 4 turns for right! Ella is awesome! Instructor is pretty good too ;)! Oh also, you might mention remember the spot or rivet/seam on the cowl that the horizon slices thru in each direction...
Nicely done! I’m looking forward to making steep turns like this.
During my PPL training my instructor told me after the clearing turns, Two Full Rolls of the trim, initiate the left turn, before starting the right forward pressure and take out one on that turn ... after the maneuver reset trim
I always used trim. The 172's I flew liked 3 cranks for a left steep turn and the right needed 2.
Definitely like trim. 3 for left and 4 for right in the 172. Nice job! She is doing great.
Lewis! I'm finally in the air! This is a huge perspective change for me! Thanks for this! Using the trim is something I'm going to work with tomorrow afternoon!
Nice! That's great to hear.
Very good video. I like the way you teach and show us the mistakes and how to correct. Thanks a lot!!! I also like to use trim for the steep turns.
Thank you 🙌🏻
I always use trim in my Cherokee for steep turns. There should never be any back pressure on the yolk. Trim trim trim !! Good job !
New cameras are great bud quality is great
A trick for her to know where the nose should be for level flight is that she should put the aiming point on the horizon. This is the same aiming point she uses for aiming on the approach and it's the height of her eyes translated above the glare shield.
GO NOLES!!!!!! 🍢🍢🍢
TRIM IT!!!👍🏻
I love to start the turn, add power and trim. :)
Method that works for me is start stable, roughly 95kts, as your passing 30 degrees add a bump of power and two full rolls of trim. Works pretty well.
Absolutely love all your videos and this one is no exception. One suggestion, as an instructor you should wear your seatbelt during training sessions, especially ones to be posted online. Promote and reinforce safety to all students and anyone watching.
Appreciate your support man. I’m not sure what you’re seeing but my seat belt and harness are both on, as always.
The ones to the right are always tougher as the sight picture is different, the nose appears to be below the horizon when sitting in the left seat. Gotta find that sight picture for each, whether it’s putting the spinner on the horizon or a particular rivet on the cowling. If you were in a cub sitting in the middle of the plane the both appear the same,
Nice hoodie.
Look at your smile after correct reback ! face that say everything
😂
The first time you get all the way to take off yourself is big. Great job! Awesome progress. Personally, I was stubborn about not using trim in steep turns until I had them down. Did the same on my checkride. I also noticed that steep turns were more difficult in Cessna vs Cherokee. Cherokee just felt significantly more responsive.
I feel like everything in the cessna is more difficult than the cherokee apart from draining the fuel sumps. They are a pain haha
Fuel sumps and maybe glide distance. Cherokee drops like a rock compared. Everything else Cherokee beats the sky boat.
I am doing steep turns and steep turn in low flying and low visibility config currently.
On the one thing at a time, I have a bad habit of when I am adjusting the pitch in the steep turn, I also decrease the bank. My instructor is currently doing a lot of 'put the bank in'
Left is definitely easier than right turns.
Hey! Loved that video! I'm looking to film my first flights as a fresh private pilot too. May I ask what you use to record the intercom's audio?
I was taught steep turns were to demonstrate losing some of the vertical component of lift which is why you need to add back pressure. Trimming seems like it takes that part of the lesson away, plus you end up with a bunch of nose up trim when you are done with the turn.
I don't use trim when I practice steep turns because I don't use trim when I'm just flying to point A to point B and I have to do a steep turn to avoid traffic or to bleed off speed coming into a pattern (Vans RV6A) or for whatever reason I'm doing a steep turn in a normal flight. I think this is at least partly due to the fact that most steep turns in a normal flight aren't done in a full 360º usually only 90º-180º So if you use trim in those situations to help you then you should practice that way, if you don't trim in for those maneuvers in a typical flight then you shouldn't practice that way. Just my dumb opinion anyway.
Flying in a 172-M, my instructor has me putting in two rolls of upward trim. I still need to get more consistent with steep turns.
Scan the DG, attitude indicator, and altimeter for step turns, glancing at the ball occasionally. Forget the vsi all together.
It helped me to not use trim and to set power after reaching 30 degrees then placing both hands on the yoke. But I’m flying a Cherokee 180
During my training, the steep turn part was where I struggled the most. While most people struggle with their landings, I aced it in one attempt. However, steep turns really cause me nausea.
I earned my PPL in Warriors in New England. Once the temperature drops below a certain level, there is no trimming in flight. Even electric trim (which my trainers didn't have) won't make a dent. I was shocked at how well 172 trim worked year round once I started flying them. Trim for steep turns? Pipers no, Cessnas absolutely.
2:37 my PPL instructor taught me APT/PAT. I always thought of Ascending = Attitude, Power, Trim. And the other order for descending.
I was told to drag the spinner across the horizon for steep turns.
Mane wish you were my instructor
9:50 now. I hated using trim in steep turns all throughout training. However after training i began to prefer trim in steep turns. Being comfortable with both is ideal, IMO, since steep turns as a practical maneuver (not checkride practical, just practical in general) is nearly an “evasive” maneuver. For this purpose, using trim would be silly. However for demonstration purposes during training, for on a checkride, or just for generally hammering home the concept of trim, sight pictures, and overall aircraft control, trim is a good thing to use in steep turns both to lighten the workload and demonstrate knowledge and use of all available aircraft systems to a high level.
Why wouldn't you use trim in a steep turn? is my thought. It's a tool that is provided to relieve back pressure and many of my students get so focused on keeping the nose up, that they miss other things. Conversely, they are not focused enough on back pressure that they let the nose fall. Trim and relax.
(Only 6:40 in) but i’ll tell ya this much.. the only thing better than great stall recoveries, is great stall prevention.
Hey Lew, I just finished my PPL at KISM but I don't know If I want to stay there because of DPE Availability. How can I get in touch to finish the rest of my ratings with you? Thanks
and left....and right...and left...and right... 😅👍
I learned with 3 turns nose up going left and 2 turns going right in a 172. DPE had no issues with it.
Nice!
I have dome Motorcycle instruction and I have noticed some similarities between flight students and Motorcycle students. Many cycle students seem to favor turning left, verses turning right. Especially tight turns. Your student here appears to not be checking for clear air space prior to turning in some of these maneuvers, unless you are editing it out. I did see that you were clearing.
Just an observation. Great video. Thank for sharing.
I'm glad you noticed me clearing for her. There's a lot going on for a low time student and they don't often get everything right at once. Thank you man!
According to AOPA, using trim during steep turns can be bad because it can lead to accelerated stall. This is because trimming away the stick force during steep turns over a ground reference can make it difficult to sense how much backpressure is being applied.
I almost failed my CFI Checkride over this issue of trim during steep turns.
Very interesting. I hadn’t heard of that study. I’ve trimmed my whole career even at airline level and never once done an accelerated stall while doing so.
@LewDixAviation sounds like a video idea, your going to need a G-metter to make sure not to over load the wings.
Surprised to see steep turns done at 45°. Is that the norm in the US? Or is it just for a PPL?
PPL is 45° and commercial is 50°. Commercial also had a steep spiral which is no more than 60°.
@@LewDixAviation damn EASA is 60° at least for CPL
The first five hours of maneuvers, there’s a big piece of cardboard over the 6-pack.
I need to know what temperature it was for this flight. You guys are dressed like you’re in ALASKA.
😂 about 8°c while Ella was preflighting rising to about 11°c throughout our lesson.
I’m pretty sure that’s a kite not a plane considering where the wings are. Lol
That explains the strings! I thought they were just tie downs…
@@LewDixAviation😂
Wow this girl has a lot of power in her arm. Being able to pull so hard that it slows down from 100kt to 40kt is quite impressive.
Golf not Goalph
Using trim.... so controversial....
Trim is gonna perfect the maneuver, but will not teach proper "master of the aircraft." As for my students, I allow trim on for private and commercial students, but not for CFI candidates.
Trim is part of your controls that you should use. Using trim is not controversial at all. As a matter of fact, my students had to show me they could do a steep turn hands off.
Once you fly jets, steep turns is always required. Some jets will auto trim. And the ones that don’t, you just trim yourself.