Oh man, this episode was a mess. Especially this season is kinda weird, you guys talked about 6 games already and looks like Jirard is the only guy who played all of them. Fun and trolling is good (like in the first season) but this concept totally needs a guy that keeps everyone together and focuses on point. Jared was that guy sometimes in the first season, Jirard tries to do that but, god damn, people didn't wanna do it. I know it's hard to talk about a game you never played but come on. And there are two Final Fantasy games. Jared was MEANT TO BE in this season.
Big Nose Animation But... They don't? They are all prominent gamers on YT. They aren't "normal" (lol), they should represent experts who research these games like they would do for any video that they make on their own channel.
Jeb Lavender honestly that is true they should have been prepared to argue for games they had played. But it was nothing if not entertaining 😂. I’m happy that you shared that perspective
Big Nose Animation Oh it was hilarious. I laughed my butt off. But that's not why I watch this show. I want to learn about games I haven't played or get other opinions on games I have. I learned nothing about FF9 or Ape Escape today. And I think a lot of the hate here is because people were expecting thought-out discussions about each game and we just didn't get that today. I don't think Normal Boots has done a good job of explaining what we should expect from Madness. So there's this group that want the show to be really professional and informative and there's another group that just want entertainment. And there's nothing wrong with either view. But they probably should address it since the past few episodes have been getting a lot of hate.
Or none at all. Voting based purely on "well I've played it before, I've absolutely no basis for context or knowledge on the other choice" is fucking terrible.
It's funny you should say that. I know it's annecodotal, but I actually seen it happen on childhood camping trip. A vegan driven/convinced to eat some red meat.
If there was an actual decent discussion going on and Ape Escape still won, I very much doubt there'd be nearly as many dislikes. This episode is terrible.
Honestly, you should each give yourselves enough time to actually play each game in this bracket, that way we can avoid another catastrophic discussion like this one.
I agree... however this is never going to happen :/ In this particular case rpgs take a lot of time to get through, tnat they film the season soon after the poll is decided. What they need is better judges. Although Caddicarus was one of the best choices and just here has a mistep. Barry Kramer is just embarrasing...
@Valkyrie Adjusting the list is kind of dangerous, shows clear bias towards certain games, i mean... if they don't like those games to be on the show, then they shouldn't be on the initial poll to begin with... But then people would complain about their favorite games not being even considered. I didn't say that everyone should play every game... i actually said that Caddicarus is one of the best choices, even if he didn't play ff9. but they can definetely do better, Barry hasn't even played half of the games thus far. Personally, I rather have someone that is familiarized with the games than a minor internet celebrity that isn't. Or wouldn't you mind if no one in the table knew anything about any game? that would be a bad selection of judges
@@diegog1853 Im not implying that they have to beat the games, cause like you said a JRPG takes many hours to finish, but they should at least play enough for them to be able to understand the mechanics and form an opinion.
How can anyone *possibly* be an unbiased judge when they literally haven't played one of the games? "I haven't played this, but it's better" Worst season yet
If they knew that they'd be debating FFIX, why didn't they take a few hours to try it??? In the 90s tv shows bracket, most of them watched a couple episodes of the shows they hadn't seen or didn't remember. I can't believe that even Caddy, the Playstation guy, couldn't even be bothered to really look into it. I'm honestly a bit shocked at how this episode wasn't even a discussion, it was just trolling and joking and then voting for the only one of the two they played because they didn't do their homework. I've never played either game myself, but it says a lot that the only people who had really played FFIX, felt it was much better than Ape Escape.
Thing is, it seems like Caddy (and maybe Furest?) just dislikes jrpgs. So even if he got to play it for an hour or two his opinion wouldn't differ but I think understanding how much other people view a game has to have some influence in the discussion.
I love Barry as much as the next guy, but he really shouldn't have been chosen for this. After 3 rounds of the guy who admitted to barely playing on the PS1, I really think ProJared should have taken his place.
@@Badusername2000 Having structure doesn't mean it has to professional. Although, i dont think their goal was to have structure. Just a debate with the homies.
@@JPeoplzOIII People really don't seem to get this aspect of it. They're just a bunch of friends talking about games. People really need to let off how serious they're taking it. I'm an FF fan through and through, and this may have been one of my favorite episodes because it's clear how much fun they had.
@@MaybeAnnatar You don't have to be a fan of it, but you should have to try it out before forming an opinion. You can't say you don't like a type of food you haven't tried, you shouldn't even be giving an opinion on it.
When you are debating what is better and not everyone has played it. It's immediately not a fair argument making this video mean nothing. @Jared McCray
I'm not going to blame the host. He's actually really good on not voting biasedly. He base himself on the arguments. Jirad was literally the only one to add to the plate of FFIX, Shane on the other hand just try bashing on Ape Escape about the controls... like seriously thats all he sais, he did not add ANYTHING to the value of FFIX. So there wasn't enough arguments to give FFIX the win. Give props to Jirad and give him a rip and respect but based on the arguments sadly FFIX wasn't given a "Good" trial and i blame Shane for that.
TheBigLoserQueen Can you blame them? They couldn't have a meaningful discussion, let alone even finish a sentence. I'd be pissed that I wasted my time for no reason.
@@jeblavender2125 Shane wasn't trying to have a meaningful discussion, he just made the same complain about the controls the whole episode. He had plenty of chances to make a good argument for FF9, and it should've been easier since two people on he table hadn't even played FF9 so they probably wouldn't be able to argue against it. But no, he just looked stressed and shitted on Ape Ecape's controls, literally the one thing the game is praised for.
If Forrest was going to vote based off of arguments like he has for a majority of the other episodes of madness, he should've voted for FFIX because unlike Caddy and Barry (I love them both, bless their souls) Jirard made a solid argument for the game.
Caddy and Barry made far better arguments than Shane this episode. He just shitposted and made the same dumb point the whole discussion, he is the true reason FF9 lost imo. And Jirard made the best argument, but it amounted pretty much to "the narrative is very good". That's more an opinion than an argument, I feel if he was making that point he should've at least explained better.
Plus Caddy and Barry were just running with the joke/making the show more interesting. Forrest had the perfect opportunity to end the show on a solid note, while still having allowed the joke to play on, but instead of being a host he just joined in on the joke and in doing so made a joke of the entire bracket.
Just to jump in quickly, I personally went into this show knowing absolutely NOTHING about the line-up. Didn't know what the random brackets were or what the audience chose, because I figured that would be more interesting. That being said - even if I HAD played FFIX beforehand, having a serious and logical discussion between Final Fantasy and bloody Ape Escape is ridiculous as a concept anyway. That's why Jirard looks like he's losing his mind and why Barry and I are taking the piss. And that's what is great fun about the show - it is called MADNESS, after all. 2 games that go against each other are often equally brilliant, yet so damn different it's almost insane putting them against each other. I personally had a tonne of fun making this, and if you didn't enjoy the final product - that's your call, totally fine. But please don't be petty and attack anyone over it. It's a fun and silly video-game panel show. If you'd like an in-depth analysis on why a particular favourite of yours is one of the best things ever, watch a positive review. Most of my personal favourite PS1 games didn't even MAKE the final game list for this season, and I honestly don't care. I worked with what I had, which is what everyone else on this show does. Just like Jirard felt totally alone defending FFIX, I felt totally alone defending Silent Hill. Chill out, and watch the madness unfold!
The least you guys could do is put 3 hours into each game before you vote. The opening of FFIX is brilliant and it only gets better as it goes along. You get invested in the characters, they all have personalities and wants and needs and there is a little romance and lot of heart. Ape Escape is a brilliant time waster but FFIX is an experience. Its like comparing Super Mario World to Final Fantasy 6, one is the best selling SNES game of all time (because it came with the console) and one is one of the most brilliant jRPG experiences of an era. Bottom line, read a plot synopsis, listen to the sound track, and play for 3 hours before each episode so you have a feel for what the game has to offer.
This is the equivalent of doing a presentation on a subject that you put zero time into researching. Or being asked to do an interview about someone without bothering to look up anything about the person.
I can fully understand that, but at the same time the fact that there was no time put into playing one of the games for some of the people on the table just doesn't make sense. You're there to decide on arguably the best ps1 game out of that list. If the tone for this season was supposed to be silly and comedic and not as in-depth, then I feel like that just completely tosses away what made the other seasons of Madness fun and interesting to watch. At the end of the day, yes, it is your guys' opinions, but we're just asking for a little more research and more good discussion to go with the silliness. I'm not going to pretend that I know your schedule or if you even have any time to appropriately give ff9 a chance it deserves, but even so, this video just felt like a letdown all the same. I'll still enjoy the videos from your channel (especially recently, hot damn), but I just can't watch these videos without feeling frustrated about it. Maybe I am taking it too seriously, but it's because I feel like the show deserves it with the precedent it's established so far.
I understand you went into this not knowing what is in the brackets but for being someone who says they are the "Playstation guy" you should still have at least some knowledge of the consoles most groundbreaking titles. I love your channel but to watch this was kind of hard because I personally love FF IX and the PS1 is what made me a gamer with my first game being FF VII. I enjoyed Ape Escape too but to say it is better than FF IX is just wrong imo. I respect that you stuck to your decision but you should at least play FF IX at some point in your life. It is a great game.
I feel like this really illustrates a flaw in this series. Why debate a game match up when two people there have never played it? There's no debate. You don't watch a film critique where the critic walks up and says they didn't actually watch the movie. I generally find this series entertaining, but this was just embarrassing.
@@JazzyWaffles I wouldn't say disgusting, it's 5 dudes talking about videogames. Theres no actual stakes here just a fun show. Doesnt really bother me personally.
Not mad, just disappointed. Came in expecting the typical banter and bringing in the legitimate highs and lows of each game and objectively comparing them. Instead, I got a bunch of hollering and trolling that lead to a baseless decision. I'm sure a point could have been made either way if either sides were able to speak without being talked over like reasonable hosts but, this is clearly a kindergarten corral now and shouting will win over a sound discussion every time.
Yeah, you're taking it to seriously, and they agreed that they could not debate on it not having played the game and not having enough information about it, if anything this is not the bracket's or the "moderator's" fault is the uninformed participants (also let's remember it's called "Madness" for a reason)
@GamingPro1003 Yeah I'm gonna give you the point there, there were times I couldn't understand anything cause they were all talking, still in my opinion that was... Funny, cause it is, I love seeing Barry annoying Jirard and Caddy being a doofus
It is. I think that is the fundemental misunderstanding people are having about this show. It's not an indept super cut deep researched review analysis. It's 5 friends talk shit. Refer to Alex mentioning the only difference between this and you and your friends talking is that this was recorded and put on the internet. It is not supposed to change people's mind, make a point, systematically rate things in order of quality (Even if they could, comparing apples to oranges after all) or anything of the sort. It's to talk about nostalgic stuff. The brackets are there just to pair topics, nothing more.
@@jpcsdutra I'm so glad someone else out there gets the point of this show. FFIX might be my favourite RPG of all time but I'm not upset. I enjoy the show for what it is. I love that people have excellent points to make and want to argue about what is actually the best game but it's really pathetic that so many of the fans here and on reddit are attacking the quality of the show because they are mad about the results.
This episode was... considerably worse than others. I don't even have a dog in this fight having not played either game. But damn this episode felt mean spirited, and it felt like arguments were taken in bad faith, especially Cad. Contrasted with the cartoon series, where if someone hadn't seen much/any of a show it always felt like the shows were still given a fair shake by the participants. I like everyone here but this was a really poor showing, I hope the rest of this season isn't like this.
@@gurentgc3546 Yea. But the root of the issue here is the fact that 2 of them have not played both games and instead of listening to the ones who have they started talking over them to make jokes. And this makes this entire thing feel really bad.
Way worse than Courage. This was them never even listening to one side. They even took a shit on Ape escape themselves. But still voted for it because for the lols. This is by far the worst episode they have ever made. Which is not saying much as the channel is pretty new :P
a bunch of guys who don't really consider RPG's for any value try to find the best game on a platform that was widely loved because of RPG's on it .... I'll see myself out, I'm with Jirard on this one
FFIX is easily the best looking ps1 game and has arguably the best soundtrack of any final fantasy a series known for great soundtracks it's an absolute masterpiece ape escape is a good game that's it
@Shaman X xenogears is a great game it does not look better most backgrounds are blocky 3d because of the hardware (prerendered looks good to this day), the character sprites are nice but they are not even the best on the system and the mech suits look aestheticly nic because they were designed to look jaggedy and sharp ffix is a technically better looking since it and vagrant story were the last square games on the playstation. Tales of destiny is 2d so can't compare styles as easily and star ocean and Valkyrie profile did the smart thing of using sprites that would hold up and pre rendered backgrounds so you can argue the look better but which is a better game is a case of opinion. Plus Breath of Fire 4 has better looking sprites than any of those games. ps thanks for introducing me to tales of destiny looking forward to playing through it.
@Shaman X also we weren't debating those games since they aren't on the list I was arguing against ape escape and was saying it was the best looking ps1 game with regards to this list hard to argue for something that isn't in the pools
Now uh... I've had some qualms about some of the previous outcomes in previous episodes, but none were quite as bad as this time around. At least the previous ones had some sort of valid arguments; this one really didn't.
When did it even have a sense of seriousness or legitimacy. They are comparing completely different genres. The only thing here is a discussion about opinions but I do admit that this was a bad discussion.
If you haven’t played the games, especially a JRPG like this one, it shouldn’t be in the bracket. ‘Nuff said. The problem here is that an argument was built on trolling , jokes, and heresay, and it led to an unsatisfying conclusion. Had those three played both games and liked Ape Escape more, and made a compelling argument... I would disagree, but I would be far more alright with the outcome (not that my opinion as an internet commentor matters at all) instead, I’m frustrated and not at all entertained. The format f madness is cool, but you need to make sure the judges are better educated if you want a more enjoyable and compelling piece of entertainment
I disagree, the whole point of the show is that its just four friends sharing their opinions about things from their childhood (at the moment) regardless of how well informed or nostalgic they are about them. No one person is going to have played every PS1 game and with both FF9 and FF7 on this bracket with the time limit they had of when the brackets were made (by popular vote so saying, no this one isn't in because so and so hasn't played it is a big middle finger to the fans that voted for it), it would be unreasonable for them to be expected to play them all. Some times talks with friends (Which is what this is) descend into Maddness like this. " 'Nuff said."
Let's not exaggerate. Problem for my was that they openly ignored people who did played both games, not that they didn't do that themselves. At least if you aren't competent then admit that.
I agree, like massively agree. To a point lol. If you ask me Shane didn't really do a good job in this episode. Since he didn't actually say anything to add to the value of FFIX. Props Jirad though, he brought out some good points but do to the other arguments even though they were troll arguments, they still had the upper hand. Shane just tried to dunk on ape escape but nothing came of it because the other two kept contradicting everything he said. Instead he should've focused on FFIX to bring the argument count up.
@@TheRezro I see no problem honestly, both sides were just fighting for one game not openly accepting the other in any way and sometimes that just happens. Hell from my point of view they made the right choice, any game that isn't a JRPG and is decently put together is a better /game/ than any final fantasy excluding maybe 14 as that actually has game play. Most FF games are closer to Visual novels or interactive stories than actual games. Not that they aren't great or fun to 'play' But they're not really fun games, just fun stories.
Dude it's 4 friends having a laugh, chill out LOL, I found it hilarious how pissed Shane and Jirad were getting despite me completely agreeing with them.
Got to be Final Fantasy 9 its amazing, so underrated and under appreciated, by far one of the best Final Fantasy games and PS1 games! Amazing story, great characters, great visuals and an awesome soundtrack!
I gotta say, the next time they take a poll on what games should be in the bracket if none of them have played it I really think it shouldn't be added, cause this hurt, ff9 is really the only one I liked
Mango Turtlenova Isn't FF9 a 3D version of the first few games? I mean, go play FF4 and FF5, maybe you'll like those. FF6 maybe, but that is more towards the style of FF7 and FF8.
I dunno, I think that even if someone that dislikes JRPGs or RPGs, in general, would play one for an hour or two to get the general understanding of the game they would still vote against one regardless of how good the JRPG is viewed by many. Caddy has stated even on his channel how he dislikes final fantasy.
@@WritingGeekNL No, not really. They all have their unique story aspects and different ways of playing. FF3 focuses heavily on customization. FF4 was the first "in depth" story, your main character turns from a Dark Knight into a Paladin, completely changes up your strategy when fighting. It honestly makes you weaker if you've relied on the power of the Dark Knight for that entire time. Final Fantasy 5 and 6 are their own games. If you want to look at it from a turn based/ATB perspective only, then yes, every turn based/ATB RPG and JRPG is exactly the same as the last one. You fight monsters, level up, and buy new equipment. But that's if and only if you really don't understand what an RPG is all about. I could make the same argument for platformers, for shooters, for strategy games. And yet I don't because I know there's more to it than that.
@@KingNefiiria Oh no, I just meant the aesthetic side of the game. Not the mechanics, I just know that FF4 and FF5 were more story based in a fantasy setting rather than sci-fi/steampunk.
Absolutely heartbroken to watch this discussion unfold between two people who have played both and can make a reasonable comparison against three who've never even researched their content. Jirard's monologue was spot on, and his visual pain was completely understandable. Other episodes have reflected this lightly, but this really shows how little Madness cares about it's content, as titles voted by fans get horrendously disrespected with zero to no knowledge to back points up by most of the group. I can't look forward to future matchups/seasons anymore because of this.
The real question should be then "Why any of these guys haven't played FFIX before?" Maybe next time bring people who actually have played the games, for most of them Barry said he hasn't played it until a few days before they record this AND that they played the game just for a few minutes, yet he has a vote that counts as much as the others knowing almost nothing about any of these games, brilliant!
At first yea.. but the problem is really that 2 of em havent even played the game... I'm a PC gamer and never touched a final fantasy game.. but from a quick look up on ape escape.. it's pretty clear ff9 is prolly the better game.
This episode was horrendous. This was "Madness", but it wasn't fun to watch nonsensical, unfunny trolling of Jirard. The discussions in prior seasons, even with trolling by Jared, was very fun, even when games and shows were wildly different and host experiences were mixed. This episode has none of that. You can see how It's going to come out in the first minute, because they're using jokes as legitimate arguments. I get this isn't a formal debate, it's fun, and people have bias toward certain things. But you could at least try to let Jirard foster a discussion. Even Barry pissed me off, and I love Barry.
It's annoying to see those kinds of arguments, too. Using your joke as a legitimate argument just makes people mad. And that's honestly the last thing you want to do in a debate, you don't want to make your opponent mad, you want to convince them that your game is better than theirs. And just bashing their game doesn't accomplish that, it just makes them more likely to not want to listen to your argument if you ever come around to explaining it.
he is not an RPG guy, he also does not like FFVII and he has actually played like 10 hours of that one (looking forward to that episode). I have watched Caddy on and off for years, he is very well versed in the PS1 with the exception of the RPGs (which is admittedly an enormous section of the PS1 games wild arms, persona, FF, Dragoon, jade caccoon, ect.)
@GamingPro1003 Don't get me wrong, he is in his right to like whatever he likes. But he is still dismissive and interrupting in a discussion he can't give an actual opinion.
@@lirfrank Not really. Caddy is a fan of PlayStation but he has said that he's not a fan of Final Fantasy. It's understandable that he never played FF9 before because he doesn't care for the series even though 9 is one of the best installments in the franchise (right up there with 4, 6, 7, 10 and a few others). It's the fandom's fault for assuming he's a PS fan on that kind of degree.
So let me admit a few things before going forward here: 1) I've never played Ape Escape and my only real exposure to it was Caddy's review of it, which made it seem like a perfectly fine platformer of its era. 2) FFIX is my favorite PS1 era Final Fantasy 3) I was honestly shocked FFIX even made it onto the bracket (we all knew VII was gonna make it, but I figured maybe Legend of Dragoon would be the other JRPG representation here) This episode really hurt to watch. Thankfully you all admitted how much of a train wreck it was and how one-sided it was gonna be, but jeeeeesus. I understand you all had little to no experience with IX to fairly argue its good points, but the first half of this episode was just "FFIX is garbo even if we think Ape Escape can be a bit ridiculous." I love Barry and Caddy both but some of the comments were so mean-spirited against IX. I was basically Jirard the whole episode. Having said all that, I will admit that if I was in their shoes, I probably would of been making the same kind of arguments and comments but in the opposite direction, and it's for the same reason things happened like it did here: I have little to no knowledge of Ape Escape but a love for FFIX. So I can't really fault you guys for how this debate turned out. It's probably been said before but maybe giving yourselves a little more time to do research on the topics (instead of an hour or two of a game or a few episodes of a show) can lead to some better debates, or at least prevent train wrecks like this one. I love you all, please don't take this too harshly, cause I know you're going to get so much flak for this one already. I just know you are capable of better, and hope to see you make this show as great as it can be, because I do still love the premise of this show and want to see it grow!
See, now THIS is how you do constructive criticism properly and maturely. I personally loved this episode, even though like you I did not play Ape Escape and really love FFIX. However, unlike a lot of the comments here and on reddit that share your opinion, you put it politely and constructively. You didn't lose your shit over the results, you just have some things to say about the episode. Thanks for being a reasonable and chill person!
I’m genuinely shocked (we’ll, duh, we all are). But I’m shocked for a different reason: why on Earth could you guys not come to the most reasonable way to argue for/against games you haven’t played? Use a base level of knowledge when it comes to longevity and historical significance of a game. Example: What did FFIX set out to be? A great JRPG setting out to be better than its predecessors in an already fan favourite series. Historically, even if I haven’t played it, it has stood out over time as a widely referenced game in the series AND in JRPGS as a whole. Now, what did Ape Escape set out to be? A different way to shake up platformers. Was it good at that? Sure! Okay, what are some other platformers for PS1 that it would need to compete with in terms of significance, longevity and popularity? .....All Crash, all Spyro, Castlevania (though some will argue that’s its own thing outside of just platforming). Would I take those games over Ape Escape? Yup! To me, that’s the end of the discussion. FFIX was more successful at what it set out to do on the PS1 than Ape Escape. Done. End of story. I think that’s as fair as you can get if you haven’t played FF or Ape Escape for that matter. USE. CONTEXT/HISTORY!
They have gone on the record as saying that Madness isn't supposed to be a conclusive or objective evaluation of what is "the best X" as much as it them talking about "which of these two is better in your personal opinion, based on whatever evaluation you want, right now." It's just for entertainment. To be fair, you have an excellent idea there but this kind of bizarre argument (Spirit of the N64 anyone?) IS perfectly in-line with Madness. ... Poor FFIX though, I love Ape Escape but... Just poor FFIX.
One person, understandable. The odds that all 5 people have watched or seen the thing in question are pretty low. So having one person not having played FFIX would have been fine. But two is too much. It basically guarantees two votes to the other game, and as a result that game has an enormous lead by default.
Nerdy George Washington Whats frustrating is that they dominated the discussion. Like, if you haven't played one of the games, let someone who has actually tell you how good it is. Don't just make fun of it because you haven't played it. Like, is there no way to be even slightly unbiased in these videos?
I'm not gonna say one deserved the vote over the other, but you guys can't have a thorough discussion if 2 of you never played one of the games! I thought you guys even research the topics before coming to the table, but didn't give one of the top 12 voted finalists any sort of beforehand analysis, let alone a fair shake?
I'm sorry, but this whole series of madness has completely become null and void to me. For future reference guys, and I am not sure how the rest of the internet feels about this; if playing these games that you are not familiar with means madness doesn't come out as often, PLEASE PLAY THESE GAMES. If they would have played the first hour of FFIX, this bracket would not have turned out the way that it did. This episode disappointed me, sorry guys.
Myranna Knight you weren't considering this anything professional of course. Only people who understand this as a friendly discussion with friendly gamers talking can find this entertaining. People who take this as a groundbreaking debate series will find disappointment. I know your not the ladder and have ingeniously decided you just don't enjoy seeing people talk about games casually. Btw caddy would ultimately chose ape escape anyway, and the laptop guy would chose ape escape as well, I think the results would have been the same either way. Just remember neither of these games had a chance of winning the whole tournament.
@@Imanol897 I understand completely that this is only a casual discussion about games! I don't consider this to be the ultimate truth. I just wish that the panelists had more experience with all of the games in order to make a more well rounded and interesting discussion. I made this comments weeks ago, so I'm past my frustration, lol. I just wish there was more prep involved; that's just my personal preference. :)
I was okay with every discussion up until this point. Even the ones i disagree with had arguments behind it, be it good or bad. I haven't played Final Fantasy IX. I haven't played Ape Escape. But half of this discussion was just making jokes sarcasticaly implying that Ape Escape was better than Final Fantasy IX. By the end of the discussion the only one who elaborated well on the characteristics of their game choice was Jirard. Aside from the one moment when Barry was serious in explaining that he had fun with it, he just kept joking the entire video. Don't get me wrong, i like that you are having fun, but when these jokes are what put Ape Escape ahead of Final Fantasy IX it feels unfair both as a result as it is unfair to the only person who has played the other game and was actually trying to have a discussion. Whenever it was a tie, Forrest usually disclosed his opinion and when he hasn't played a game he usually went with what where the better arguments. 90% of what was in favor of Ape Escape was jokes and plain statements of what the game has for comedic effect while Jirard, the only one who played the other game, actually went on to explain the caracteristics of the game but he barely got a chance to do that since everyone was joking. Forrest just decision felt like it was just for the sake of going with the joke instead of a fair decision based on the arguments. As someone who has no emotional atatchment or nostalgic feeling for either game, this was just plainly Unfair.
This episode is a joke. Every participant should have enough experience with both subjects to provide a legitimate debate. Shane and Jirard had experience with both but Caddy, Barry, and Forrest couldnt provide any meaningful insight for FFIX. I understand that this show is in its relative infancy and that its yours to produce how you see fit but maybe consider retooling it so that you dont have completely laughable episodes such as this. I would have been fine with Ape Escape winning if those who voted for it were able to actually make good arguments as to why its better than FFIX. Love you all and hopefully this doesn't happen again in future episodes.
you guys need to go back to how you began this show by asking yourself "what is the better X". There was no discussion of that in this episode. You can not play something, do your research, and still make an informed decision. This entire season has been bad, but this was awful. No meaningful comparison of graphics, story, art direction, impact, or "which to shoot into space" happened. Very disappointed.
Forrest was improving each episode as a mediator. Then this episode comes. And i didn't play neither game, but this episode was just trolling without arguments. He should've voted for FFIX based on one side arguing and the other one just trolling.
He hates jrpg’s. When you think about it, debates aren’t meant to and never have been about changing opinions. In actual debate the two debaters aren’t deciding who won but a set of judges and the judges are told to be impartial and to forget their beliefs, but 8/10 times they don’t actually drop those beliefs and that’s what is happening here.
FF8 is my favorite game of all time. I was upset it wasn't on the bracket at all, but it wasn't unexpected. Looking back on it now I thank God its been spared from this group.
FF8 is one of my least favorite Final Fantasy games (2 being my absolute least favorite). I feel like you spend more time summoning and pressing the square button to boost throughout most of it than you do much else. You can cheese the game by deconstructing a tent and using high level cure as a HP boost giving you thousands of HP when you're only supposed to have a 100 or two for the first disk or two.
Lol oh man! I'm starting to question if randomizing the bracket is really that fair. I think Parapa vs Ape Escape and FFVII vs FFIX would have been way more interesting conversations.
After watching this, I think that Madness should be changing out hosts. I love Forest, he's great, but I think having a more impartial judge based on the game/bracket entrants would be a lot more fair. The outcome of this round was obvious from the start; It was 3 against 2, 2 of the 3 who hadn't even played IX before. If the host was somebody who hadn't played either, or who liked both equally, it would have been a fair match, but having Forest in the host slot unarguably weighted the scales towards Ape Escape.
Just don't let it be Gareth from FTCR. Watch his "Great Sonic Adventure Debate" to know what I'm talking about. On a sidenote, things are going to get insane when they get to the "Best Sonic games" bracket.
Please bring madness back! I love hearing people who love games talk about games and while I'm sure there are videos for that out there, these are the ones I know about. Maybe for a comeback, do a bracket on indie games?
Proud to dislike this. I've criticized Furst for his absolute garbage "I'll vote for what had the better argument regardless of the quality of the games in question" logic but I respected that he's stuck to it and remained consistent, until now. Where he goes with the two people who did nothing but joke for fifteen minutes and wouldn't let Jirard talk, then when he finally did he made an actual argument, which is definitively better than just joking, and Furst votes for the jokes. Bottom line, get someone else to tiebreak, please.
I must have missed the episode where they said "This series is totally serious and the game that wins is objectively the best game ever made and the others suck". They were just joking around, and the entire series is just meant to be low-stakes banter between the Normal Boots guys. If that's not your thing, just go watch a serious video game review channel, there are plenty out there.
I really enjoy Madness as a show but that episode was a disgrace. 5 people round a table debating which is better: a game that everyone has completed vs a game that hardly anybody has picked up and knows nothing about. Worst of all they kept shutting down any mention of FFIX for half the episode so Jirard couldn't build an arguement. Get it together guys
I've never felt bitter watching an episode of this lol, but I'm half way through and all I taste is salt. FF7 will get all the praise yet 9 is better and gets none
@@chillplayer1234 -- Just because something is "iconic" doesn't make it better. VII is horribly outdated. It's great for its time, but it has not aged gracefully at all. Final Fantasy IX is an improvement over tradition FF games.
@@chillplayer1234 All I can say is if you have to fast forward a game.... well is it a game worth playing? The answer btw is yes. Of course 7 is iconic, amazing. But I'd still play 9 any day over 7
Okay. Well played, Madness! 👏 I must admit you got me. Caught me completely off guard. I never expected it at all. Thank you for the early X-Mas present by revealing your April Fool's Day joke a whole 4 months early. Cheers! However now that the early festivities and fun & games have been done earlier than usual it is now time to publish the REAL PS 1 GAME VERSUS MADNESS to the channel. I await the upload!
Forrest Lee is extremely biased in this one... I think he's even the most biased at the table. Because his attacks on FF9 were more intended to let Ape Escape win and not to make this conversation funnier. Barry and Caddy had mostly the intention to be funny. Forrest didn't talk remotely positiv about FF9 and didn't do any effort to lead the conversation to a point, where the game is at least covered enough. And oh man, a host shouldn't be a little bit biased at all. Especially not, when you established him as the one, that should be the unbiased one. But at least it's a funny discussion.
If Berry hasn't played any PlayStation games up until this point, can you please remove him from this bracket and bring in someone who has? I'm not saying anything bad about him, he just doesn't have the context needed to fairly discuss these games.
Guys the show is called madness, this is basically whose game is it anyways were the points don't matter, They are just having fun discussing this stuff for jokes. Quit taking it so damn seriously.
I hope he turns straight into it. Just be the most heelish judge, always bringin it up and grinding down the fan favorites. Just a few short steps from coming to the table in a robe and yelling "WOOOOOOO".
Dear NormalBoots: YOU NEED TO DEVELOP METRICS TO COMPARE THE GAMES CONSISTENTLY! Three seasons of Madness and this still hasn't happened. Sure, your method is different from other "Best of" series. But gamers feel strongly about these games, so they crave the satisfaction or consolation from hearing logical REASONS for their childhood game winning or losing. From ProJared's "essence of an N64 game" argument to Furst ditching his role as facilitator and blatantly campaigning for Batman to 3 of the 5 judges never having played the game AND having bias against JRPGs, the comments section always flares up when the illogical, inconsistent and unfair "Madness" of the show affects things.
Wanna fix things? Here's a simple rule: All judges must play (or have played) at least 30 minutes of any game in order to vote on it. If they haven't played a game, they must recuse themselves (not vote that time).
This was the first legitimately bad episode of madness....not because the better game lost (it did) but because 3 people who hadn't even played it weren't willing to be persuaded.
@@unitearica Their other Maddess seasons broke me, this ended me. They often don't really watch or play everything. they argue stupid shit about why it makes a game good or bad then ignore it with other ones. They have no criteria. Like the N64 one. They would vote for a game cause it had great single player and then good games would lose to meh multiplayer games cause "multiplayer is the essence of N64". The series had potential but Lee is a terrible host, Jirard is never allowed to actually talk Shane seems defeated half the time and most of the other guests have been clowns.
This actually wasn't even a meaningful discussion. It was just all nonsense about Ape Escape... Come on guys, I've loved every other episode in every other season... but that was just an absolute mess. If you're going to put a game in the bracket, please make sure everyone has played it to completion.
I was laughing so hard the whole time Caddi and Barry were making funny arguments for Ape Escape and seeing Jirard get steamed, thinking "oh they're just bullshitting because they're gonna let FFIX win." Then three people voted for Ape Escape.
Officially calling shenanigans. Two out of the five panelists having no experience with one of the games is ridiculous. How could it possibly have been a fair matchup? Motherfucking shenanigans.
I know I'm two weeks late to the discussion, but I believe if you're going to have people argue for or against something, you should have people who have experienced the content of the discussion in order to give context. While I'll give you all credit for tackling the difficult discussion of best overall game, it would be better Suited for the discussion if you have equal numbers of people on both sides of the argument who can argue for or against their choice. TL DR; Trainwreck confirmed.
I don't think they understand that the jump button on the trigger was a deliberate decision so the gadgets could be easier to accese using the face buttons. It would be a lot more confusing with X as the jump button and R1, R2, L1, and L2 switching between the gadgets.
I'm not one to comment on youtube videos, and I'm aware that commenting feeds the algorithm all the same, but this episode is just poor all around and incredibly frustrating to watch. Don't get me wrong; the show as a concept is interesting, but others have already put it better; 'Not mad, just disappointed. Came in expecting the typical banter and bringing in the legitimate highs and lows of each game and objectively comparing them. Instead, I got a bunch of hollering and trolling that lead to a baseless decision. I'm sure a point could have been made either way if either sides were able to speak without being talked over like reasonable hosts but, this is clearly a kindergarten corral now and shouting will win over a sound discussion every time.' 'This episode was... considerably worse than others. I don't even have a dog in this fight having not played either game. But damn this episode felt mean spirited, and it felt like arguments were taken in bad faith, especially Cad. Contrasted with the cartoon series, where if someone hadn't seen much/any of a show it always felt like the shows were still given a fair shake by the participants. I like everyone here but this was a really poor showing, I hope the rest of this season isn't like this.' 'There is a difference between playing devil's advocate and being a troll. I'm not saying that they shouldn't joke around at all, but they shouldn't make jokes to cut off someone's legitimate points. ' My input: A show that debates games vs game to determine which is the best, you'd expect the majority to have played at least some of the game, if not the majority, or perhaps a more balanced line in terms of panelists. I'm not one of these 'anti so and so' people. In fact, the more I think about it, the more I quite like the outsider looking in (Barry in this case). It adds a unique perspective. HOWEVER, that said, they have to have had SOME experience with the game beforehand, and not just the 30mins they seem to get revisiting the games. In this instance, to have a majority with little to no experience on the matter (in terms of FF9) or just straight up open disdain for the genre is just a waste of time and a insult to the integrity of the concept of the show and the intelligence of its viewers. There will always be an argument to be had in terms of subjectivity vs objectivity, and while I don't believe it's possible to be totally objective, it is possible to attempt it in at least some way, shape or form. Sure peoples opinion on these DOES matter; it's why having different panelist makes for an interesting debate, and sure, there is 'comedic' value to the heavy handed subjectivity/ trolling angle...but, as stated before 'There is a difference between playing devil's advocate and being a troll. I'm not saying that they shouldn't joke around at all, but they shouldn't make jokes to cut off someone's legitimate points.' The way this 'debate' was presented in this episode is flagrantly an 'us vs them' belligerent kind of mind set, that puts you at immediate irreconcilable odds in a debate, which is a completely moot point, and seems totally at odds with the shows goals. This is present a little in all episodes (that comedic value) but here it was all there was. Even with the Batman episodes there was SOME attempt to balance the argument. It absolutely removes any sort of satisfaction, intrigue or relevance from the 'debate' in this episode outside of 'lol trollz.' This episode could have been a 30 second affair, achieved the same goals and arguably been better for it. '
I hope they understand that most of the dislikes aren't just butthurt FFIX fans but actually probably people who genuinely didn't like how o e sides the discussion In this episode was, None of them had finished FFIX but that doesn't mean they have to dismiss everything it has going for it and saying "app escape had so and so (too).'
Never played 9 and Ape Escape is one of my favorite games. Even I was super disappointed by how this turned out. Since both likes and dislikes help now, I disliked this video. Feedback is important and I really really want to like this show since I like a lot of these RUclipsrs.
This does feels like trying to convince the Vegan how good a Steak is, yet they will still choose a salad as the best food just because (1) they dont like meat (jrpg), or (2) they never taste a Steak before. Jirard made a really good analogy on that.
I'm not a huge FFIX fan, so I'm not really hurt or anything, but these guys really don't seem to know what a subjective opinion is. Saying "JRPGs aren't my thing" doesn't make you seem dumb, but critiquing a game on that basis does. Why are there 3 guys in this season who aren't really into JRPGs? In the JRPG-mastersystem-PLAYSTATION-ONE season? Seems poorly planned.
okay, i wouldn't have a problem with ape escape winning if it actually won based on the discussion. There was basically no serious discussion for why ape escape is a better game, whereas jirard poured his heart and soul out telling exactly why FFIX is an amazing game. SO basically i think Forrest wasn't really being an unbiased tie breaker because based off the arguments, FFIX should have clearly won.
If this were any every day discussion on favorites.. I'd say all the power to you. But you turned this into a tiny tournament of debates on which are the best PlayStation 1 games. I know you're not the ones to choose the games that go up there.. nor control who's paired up against who.. but the least you could do is prepare yourself and try to become familiar with the games listed so it's a more solid debate. The participants who haven't played a game in discussions shouldn't take part at all. Or even simply just postpone the discussion. A game shouldn't automatically lose due to bias nor people not caring to bother making fair and logical arguments of the pros and cons for both sides. All this was is "I never played FFIX so it loses automatically" or "I hate JRPGs so I'm not gonna even bother trying it". Or voting against it because it's a JRPG.. which is fine and all but that's a personal opinion. This is about, logically and realistically, which is the better game. Only Jirard provided any solid argument at all.. only to be talking to thin air. Poor Shane felt stuck and was unable to say much.. while the other 3 just laughed and didn't care at all about what Jirard had to say. This episode was a disaster and poorly arranged. I'd like to hope that perhaps next time you guys would get familiar with any of the participating games or shows in your discussion.. that way a solid opinion is made. Not this.. nonsense we got stuck watching. Not very impressed. Want to make casual chats and troll about topics? Just don't make it a competition between shows or games.. especially when some of you are in no position to get into debates on it.
This episode was a mess. I personally haven't played either, and just based on my personal preferences and the impression both games give I would say FFIX
Honestly, this has been my favorite episode so far. You have to bring back Caddy and Barry together in the future. They made this episode so much fun to watch.
So I started replaying FF9 yet again just before this season of madness started and I had no idea it would be on the bracket. I've beaten it numerous times, one of my favorites of all time. You did the best you could Jirard, given the circumstances.
Oh man, this episode was a mess. Especially this season is kinda weird, you guys talked about 6 games already and looks like Jirard is the only guy who played all of them. Fun and trolling is good (like in the first season) but this concept totally needs a guy that keeps everyone together and focuses on point. Jared was that guy sometimes in the first season, Jirard tries to do that but, god damn, people didn't wanna do it. I know it's hard to talk about a game you never played but come on. And there are two Final Fantasy games. Jared was MEANT TO BE in this season.
agunZagun This guy gets it.
Honestly you have to understand that these guys represent normal society where some people haven’t played all the games.
Big Nose Animation But... They don't? They are all prominent gamers on YT. They aren't "normal" (lol), they should represent experts who research these games like they would do for any video that they make on their own channel.
Jeb Lavender honestly that is true they should have been prepared to argue for games they had played. But it was nothing if not entertaining 😂. I’m happy that you shared that perspective
Big Nose Animation Oh it was hilarious. I laughed my butt off. But that's not why I watch this show. I want to learn about games I haven't played or get other opinions on games I have. I learned nothing about FF9 or Ape Escape today. And I think a lot of the hate here is because people were expecting thought-out discussions about each game and we just didn't get that today.
I don't think Normal Boots has done a good job of explaining what we should expect from Madness. So there's this group that want the show to be really professional and informative and there's another group that just want entertainment. And there's nothing wrong with either view. But they probably should address it since the past few episodes have been getting a lot of hate.
I relate to Jirard so much right now. FF9 is a masterpiece.
It really is and you'll normally find people who disagree haven't played it..
It has remained my favorite FF game of all time to this day. It has everything I want in an RPG
Yeh, only rational person during that episode :(
Twas a travesty.
I am like ... Why is Barry Here he hasn't played 70% of the games on the bracket...
RRAAAGGGGGHHHHHH!!!!
You could have been the one to turn the tide Jared.
I can't forgive you after season 1... But i sympathize with you here 😢
Jared! Why you no vote?!?!
I'm livid.
You need to come back Jared!
I feel like if almost no one in the judging panel has played a game it should not be included in the brackets at all.
Agreed.
Or none at all. Voting based purely on "well I've played it before, I've absolutely no basis for context or knowledge on the other choice" is fucking terrible.
Agreed. It only makes logical sense. You can't realistically judge a game if you haven't spend a fair amount of time playing it...
Alice Robinson agreed! Couldn’t watch the entire thing because of this and because I love Final Fantasy IX personally. Felt very unfair.
Agreed!
“It’s like trying to convince a vegan to eat a steak, it just doesn’t work, I know how this works.” - Jirard 2018
Jirahd calling out the whole groups obvious bullshit
It's funny you should say that. I know it's annecodotal, but I actually seen it happen on childhood camping trip. A vegan driven/convinced to eat some red meat.
Point is, it can be done, the right circumstances and/or effort must be met.
I already know which one lost based on the dislike ratio.
Also, Jirard's expressions are priceless.
If there was an actual decent discussion going on and Ape Escape still won, I very much doubt there'd be nearly as many dislikes. This episode is terrible.
@@WannaTradePants Yeah, I stopped the video halfway and voted it down. It didn't matter which game came out on top at that point.
@@WannaTradePants this episode is great. It's like a heel turn in wrestling.
Honestly, you should each give yourselves enough time to actually play each game in this bracket, that way we can avoid another catastrophic discussion like this one.
I agree... however this is never going to happen :/ In this particular case rpgs take a lot of time to get through, tnat they film the season soon after the poll is decided. What they need is better judges. Although Caddicarus was one of the best choices and just here has a mistep. Barry Kramer is just embarrasing...
@Valkyrie Adjusting the list is kind of dangerous, shows clear bias towards certain games, i mean... if they don't like those games to be on the show, then they shouldn't be on the initial poll to begin with... But then people would complain about their favorite games not being even considered.
I didn't say that everyone should play every game... i actually said that Caddicarus is one of the best choices, even if he didn't play ff9. but they can definetely do better, Barry hasn't even played half of the games thus far. Personally, I rather have someone that is familiarized with the games than a minor internet celebrity that isn't. Or wouldn't you mind if no one in the table knew anything about any game? that would be a bad selection of judges
@@diegog1853 Im not implying that they have to beat the games, cause like you said a JRPG takes many hours to finish, but they should at least play enough for them to be able to understand the mechanics and form an opinion.
@@diegog1853 They could at least have played it for an hour. Or had a let's play running on the side for an hour. Instead of going in blind.
How can anyone *possibly* be an unbiased judge when they literally haven't played one of the games?
"I haven't played this, but it's better"
Worst season yet
If they knew that they'd be debating FFIX, why didn't they take a few hours to try it??? In the 90s tv shows bracket, most of them watched a couple episodes of the shows they hadn't seen or didn't remember. I can't believe that even Caddy, the Playstation guy, couldn't even be bothered to really look into it. I'm honestly a bit shocked at how this episode wasn't even a discussion, it was just trolling and joking and then voting for the only one of the two they played because they didn't do their homework. I've never played either game myself, but it says a lot that the only people who had really played FFIX, felt it was much better than Ape Escape.
Better than the original maybe, that one's definitely lacking, but the second and third were pretty great.
Barry said he did play the first couple of hours, didn't he?
Caddy said in his channel that he doesn't like Final Fantasy. That's why he didn't play FF9.
Thing is, it seems like Caddy (and maybe Furest?) just dislikes jrpgs. So even if he got to play it for an hour or two his opinion wouldn't differ but I think understanding how much other people view a game has to have some influence in the discussion.
That probably wouldn’t have changed anything since Caddy and Barry don’t normally like JRPGs.
I love Barry as much as the next guy, but he really shouldn't have been chosen for this. After 3 rounds of the guy who admitted to barely playing on the PS1, I really think ProJared should have taken his place.
People tend to forget Jared lives two states away.
@@bazzfromthebackground3696 And yet Caddy (whom I love as a content provider btw) is BRITISH. That point is not relevant.
Link Rocks, but ape escape has the essence of the best ps1 game.........
Who caaaaaaressssssssss, it's a show on RUclips, this bracket doesn't actually mean anything. Just shut your mouth and enjoy it
Yeah they probably just chose by whoever they could get
This series needs a better discussion framework. The base is great, but the conversation and actually knowing the games and whatnot needs work.
not meant to be professional
@@Badusername2000
Having structure doesn't mean it has to professional.
Although, i dont think their goal was to have structure. Just a debate with the homies.
Tie breakers should be decided based on the arguments.
@@JPeoplzOIII People really don't seem to get this aspect of it. They're just a bunch of friends talking about games. People really need to let off how serious they're taking it.
I'm an FF fan through and through, and this may have been one of my favorite episodes because it's clear how much fun they had.
@@Badusername2000 This video generates revenue for them, it's professional.
Ape Escape is great, but FFIX didn't have a fair shot when the host is openly biased against JRPGs and two of the guests haven't played it. NOT FAIR.
@@MaybeAnnatar You don't have to be a fan of it, but you should have to try it out before forming an opinion. You can't say you don't like a type of food you haven't tried, you shouldn't even be giving an opinion on it.
When you are debating what is better and not everyone has played it. It's immediately not a fair argument making this video mean nothing. @Jared McCray
Fully agree
I'm not going to blame the host. He's actually really good on not voting biasedly. He base himself on the arguments. Jirad was literally the only one to add to the plate of FFIX, Shane on the other hand just try bashing on Ape Escape about the controls... like seriously thats all he sais, he did not add ANYTHING to the value of FFIX. So there wasn't enough arguments to give FFIX the win. Give props to Jirad and give him a rip and respect but based on the arguments sadly FFIX wasn't given a "Good" trial and i blame Shane for that.
This show is more about entertainment than the actual vote honestly. The bracket itself doesn't matter
I have never felt more bad for Jirard and Shane than this episode, they both looked like they were ready to explode, lol.
TheBigLoserQueen Can you blame them? They couldn't have a meaningful discussion, let alone even finish a sentence. I'd be pissed that I wasted my time for no reason.
And especially when their frustration is noticed by Lee, but in the end Lee votes Ape Escape and laughs like he knows his vote is ridiculous.
@@jeblavender2125 Shane wasn't trying to have a meaningful discussion, he just made the same complain about the controls the whole episode. He had plenty of chances to make a good argument for FF9, and it should've been easier since two people on he table hadn't even played FF9 so they probably wouldn't be able to argue against it. But no, he just looked stressed and shitted on Ape Ecape's controls, literally the one thing the game is praised for.
If Forrest was going to vote based off of arguments like he has for a majority of the other episodes of madness, he should've voted for FFIX because unlike Caddy and Barry (I love them both, bless their souls) Jirard made a solid argument for the game.
Caddy and Barry made far better arguments than Shane this episode. He just shitposted and made the same dumb point the whole discussion, he is the true reason FF9 lost imo. And Jirard made the best argument, but it amounted pretty much to "the narrative is very good". That's more an opinion than an argument, I feel if he was making that point he should've at least explained better.
Plus Caddy and Barry were just running with the joke/making the show more interesting. Forrest had the perfect opportunity to end the show on a solid note, while still having allowed the joke to play on, but instead of being a host he just joined in on the joke and in doing so made a joke of the entire bracket.
I always thought Forrest was supposed to be the unbiased judge but in this episode, he was like "I don't like jrps".
@@AbridgedPwned Did you miss his Batman pin he wore on the 90s cartoon's Madness? Btw, guess who won that one. Definitely not unbiased.
Caddy: "Really? I didn't think you were going to do that."
Forrest: "yep." *troll laugh follows*
Just to jump in quickly, I personally went into this show knowing absolutely NOTHING about the line-up. Didn't know what the random brackets were or what the audience chose, because I figured that would be more interesting. That being said - even if I HAD played FFIX beforehand, having a serious and logical discussion between Final Fantasy and bloody Ape Escape is ridiculous as a concept anyway. That's why Jirard looks like he's losing his mind and why Barry and I are taking the piss. And that's what is great fun about the show - it is called MADNESS, after all. 2 games that go against each other are often equally brilliant, yet so damn different it's almost insane putting them against each other.
I personally had a tonne of fun making this, and if you didn't enjoy the final product - that's your call, totally fine. But please don't be petty and attack anyone over it. It's a fun and silly video-game panel show. If you'd like an in-depth analysis on why a particular favourite of yours is one of the best things ever, watch a positive review. Most of my personal favourite PS1 games didn't even MAKE the final game list for this season, and I honestly don't care. I worked with what I had, which is what everyone else on this show does. Just like Jirard felt totally alone defending FFIX, I felt totally alone defending Silent Hill. Chill out, and watch the madness unfold!
Caddicarus
Poor Jirard.
But yeah, maybe people are taking it too seriously.
Still FFIX is better than Ape scape but not better than Miluk
The least you guys could do is put 3 hours into each game before you vote. The opening of FFIX is brilliant and it only gets better as it goes along. You get invested in the characters, they all have personalities and wants and needs and there is a little romance and lot of heart. Ape Escape is a brilliant time waster but FFIX is an experience. Its like comparing Super Mario World to Final Fantasy 6, one is the best selling SNES game of all time (because it came with the console) and one is one of the most brilliant jRPG experiences of an era.
Bottom line, read a plot synopsis, listen to the sound track, and play for 3 hours before each episode so you have a feel for what the game has to offer.
This is the equivalent of doing a presentation on a subject that you put zero time into researching. Or being asked to do an interview about someone without bothering to look up anything about the person.
I can fully understand that, but at the same time the fact that there was no time put into playing one of the games for some of the people on the table just doesn't make sense. You're there to decide on arguably the best ps1 game out of that list.
If the tone for this season was supposed to be silly and comedic and not as in-depth, then I feel like that just completely tosses away what made the other seasons of Madness fun and interesting to watch. At the end of the day, yes, it is your guys' opinions, but we're just asking for a little more research and more good discussion to go with the silliness. I'm not going to pretend that I know your schedule or if you even have any time to appropriately give ff9 a chance it deserves, but even so, this video just felt like a letdown all the same. I'll still enjoy the videos from your channel (especially recently, hot damn), but I just can't watch these videos without feeling frustrated about it.
Maybe I am taking it too seriously, but it's because I feel like the show deserves it with the precedent it's established so far.
I understand you went into this not knowing what is in the brackets but for being someone who says they are the "Playstation guy" you should still have at least some knowledge of the consoles most groundbreaking titles.
I love your channel but to watch this was kind of hard because I personally love FF IX and the PS1 is what made me a gamer with my first game being FF VII. I enjoyed Ape Escape too but to say it is better than FF IX is just wrong imo.
I respect that you stuck to your decision but you should at least play FF IX at some point in your life. It is a great game.
I feel like this really illustrates a flaw in this series. Why debate a game match up when two people there have never played it? There's no debate. You don't watch a film critique where the critic walks up and says they didn't actually watch the movie. I generally find this series entertaining, but this was just embarrassing.
This can be fixed if they plan ahead, and switch the Madness critics to people who have played the game.
@@OnyDeus or at the very least do some research
Same thing happened in Season 2 with courage the cowardly dog. It's disgusting that they do this.
Exactly, do some planning
@@JazzyWaffles I wouldn't say disgusting, it's 5 dudes talking about videogames. Theres no actual stakes here just a fun show. Doesnt really bother me personally.
Not mad, just disappointed. Came in expecting the typical banter and bringing in the legitimate highs and lows of each game and objectively comparing them. Instead, I got a bunch of hollering and trolling that lead to a baseless decision. I'm sure a point could have been made either way if either sides were able to speak without being talked over like reasonable hosts but, this is clearly a kindergarten corral now and shouting will win over a sound discussion every time.
Yeah, you're taking it to seriously, and they agreed that they could not debate on it not having played the game and not having enough information about it, if anything this is not the bracket's or the "moderator's" fault is the uninformed participants
(also let's remember it's called "Madness" for a reason)
@GamingPro1003
Yeah I'm gonna give you the point there, there were times I couldn't understand anything cause they were all talking, still in my opinion that was... Funny, cause it is, I love seeing Barry annoying Jirard and Caddy being a doofus
It's not meant to be taken too seriously. Get the stick out of your ass and enjoy the video vir what it is, not what you WANT it to be.
It is. I think that is the fundemental misunderstanding people are having about this show. It's not an indept super cut deep researched review analysis. It's 5 friends talk shit. Refer to Alex mentioning the only difference between this and you and your friends talking is that this was recorded and put on the internet.
It is not supposed to change people's mind, make a point, systematically rate things in order of quality (Even if they could, comparing apples to oranges after all) or anything of the sort. It's to talk about nostalgic stuff. The brackets are there just to pair topics, nothing more.
@@jpcsdutra I'm so glad someone else out there gets the point of this show. FFIX might be my favourite RPG of all time but I'm not upset. I enjoy the show for what it is. I love that people have excellent points to make and want to argue about what is actually the best game but it's really pathetic that so many of the fans here and on reddit are attacking the quality of the show because they are mad about the results.
This episode was... considerably worse than others. I don't even have a dog in this fight having not played either game. But damn this episode felt mean spirited, and it felt like arguments were taken in bad faith, especially Cad. Contrasted with the cartoon series, where if someone hadn't seen much/any of a show it always felt like the shows were still given a fair shake by the participants. I like everyone here but this was a really poor showing, I hope the rest of this season isn't like this.
I have played some Ape Escape once when I was a kid, never played FF IX. But this episode left me pretty perturbed.
redholm I have played both and FF IX is superior. But aren’t the same genre…
@@gurentgc3546 Yea. But the root of the issue here is the fact that 2 of them have not played both games and instead of listening to the ones who have they started talking over them to make jokes. And this makes this entire thing feel really bad.
redholm indeed
Oh my gosh. FFIX got straight up shafted. Just like Courage.
Yep. Normally, I'm fair with both sides but this is just unfair.
At least the other people had Fucking seen Courage
like Ed Edd Eddy being beat by the MAGIC SCHOOL BUS!!!
Way worse than Courage. This was them never even listening to one side. They even took a shit on Ape escape themselves. But still voted for it because for the lols. This is by far the worst episode they have ever made. Which is not saying much as the channel is pretty new :P
The table has shit taste, it's official now.
a bunch of guys who don't really consider RPG's for any value try to find the best game on a platform that was widely loved because of RPG's on it
.... I'll see myself out, I'm with Jirard on this one
it's like prefering Astro Bot over Persona 5. it's dumb
I'll see myself out as well. Let me know when Madness season 4 comes around, and I'll start watching again.
FFIX is easily the best looking ps1 game and has arguably the best soundtrack of any final fantasy a series known for great soundtracks it's an absolute masterpiece ape escape is a good game that's it
@Shaman X xenogears is a great game it does not look better most backgrounds are blocky 3d because of the hardware (prerendered looks good to this day), the character sprites are nice but they are not even the best on the system and the mech suits look aestheticly nic because they were designed to look jaggedy and sharp ffix is a technically better looking since it and vagrant story were the last square games on the playstation. Tales of destiny is 2d so can't compare styles as easily and star ocean and Valkyrie profile did the smart thing of using sprites that would hold up and pre rendered backgrounds so you can argue the look better but which is a better game is a case of opinion. Plus Breath of Fire 4 has better looking sprites than any of those games.
ps thanks for introducing me to tales of destiny looking forward to playing through it.
@Shaman X also we weren't debating those games since they aren't on the list I was arguing against ape escape and was saying it was the best looking ps1 game with regards to this list hard to argue for something that isn't in the pools
Now uh... I've had some qualms about some of the previous outcomes in previous episodes, but none were quite as bad as this time around. At least the previous ones had some sort of valid arguments; this one really didn't.
I'm sorry but this episode has made this bracket lose any sense of seriousness or legitimacy
The show has potential but most of their deliberations are trash and their criteria for "best" changes every episode.
When did it even have a sense of seriousness or legitimacy.
They are comparing completely different genres. The only thing here is a discussion about opinions but I do admit that this was a bad discussion.
@Boco Corwin no
The guy next to Shane is doing this season no favours. Why have they got a judge who has never had a PS1??!
@@michaelmcmahon17 but whats the "ESSENCE of the N64" 😂
If you haven’t played the games, especially a JRPG like this one, it shouldn’t be in the bracket. ‘Nuff said. The problem here is that an argument was built on trolling , jokes, and heresay, and it led to an unsatisfying conclusion. Had those three played both games and liked Ape Escape more, and made a compelling argument... I would disagree, but I would be far more alright with the outcome (not that my opinion as an internet commentor matters at all) instead, I’m frustrated and not at all entertained. The format f madness is cool, but you need to make sure the judges are better educated if you want a more enjoyable and compelling piece of entertainment
I disagree, the whole point of the show is that its just four friends sharing their opinions about things from their childhood (at the moment) regardless of how well informed or nostalgic they are about them. No one person is going to have played every PS1 game and with both FF9 and FF7 on this bracket with the time limit they had of when the brackets were made (by popular vote so saying, no this one isn't in because so and so hasn't played it is a big middle finger to the fans that voted for it), it would be unreasonable for them to be expected to play them all.
Some times talks with friends (Which is what this is) descend into Maddness like this. " 'Nuff said."
Let's not exaggerate. Problem for my was that they openly ignored people who did played both games, not that they didn't do that themselves. At least if you aren't competent then admit that.
I agree, like massively agree. To a point lol. If you ask me Shane didn't really do a good job in this episode. Since he didn't actually say anything to add to the value of FFIX. Props Jirad though, he brought out some good points but do to the other arguments even though they were troll arguments, they still had the upper hand. Shane just tried to dunk on ape escape but nothing came of it because the other two kept contradicting everything he said. Instead he should've focused on FFIX to bring the argument count up.
@@TheRezro I see no problem honestly, both sides were just fighting for one game not openly accepting the other in any way and sometimes that just happens.
Hell from my point of view they made the right choice, any game that isn't a JRPG and is decently put together is a better /game/ than any final fantasy excluding maybe 14 as that actually has game play.
Most FF games are closer to Visual novels or interactive stories than actual games. Not that they aren't great or fun to 'play' But they're not really fun games, just fun stories.
Dude it's 4 friends having a laugh, chill out LOL, I found it hilarious how pissed Shane and Jirad were getting despite me completely agreeing with them.
Got to be Final Fantasy 9 its amazing, so underrated and under appreciated, by far one of the best Final Fantasy games and PS1 games! Amazing story, great characters, great visuals and an awesome soundtrack!
I gotta say, the next time they take a poll on what games should be in the bracket if none of them have played it I really think it shouldn't be added, cause this hurt, ff9 is really the only one I liked
Mango Turtlenova
Isn't FF9 a 3D version of the first few games?
I mean, go play FF4 and FF5, maybe you'll like those. FF6 maybe, but that is more towards the style of FF7 and FF8.
I dunno, I think that even if someone that dislikes JRPGs or RPGs, in general, would play one for an hour or two to get the general understanding of the game they would still vote against one regardless of how good the JRPG is viewed by many. Caddy has stated even on his channel how he dislikes final fantasy.
@@WritingGeekNL No, not really. They all have their unique story aspects and different ways of playing. FF3 focuses heavily on customization. FF4 was the first "in depth" story, your main character turns from a Dark Knight into a Paladin, completely changes up your strategy when fighting. It honestly makes you weaker if you've relied on the power of the Dark Knight for that entire time. Final Fantasy 5 and 6 are their own games.
If you want to look at it from a turn based/ATB perspective only, then yes, every turn based/ATB RPG and JRPG is exactly the same as the last one. You fight monsters, level up, and buy new equipment. But that's if and only if you really don't understand what an RPG is all about.
I could make the same argument for platformers, for shooters, for strategy games. And yet I don't because I know there's more to it than that.
@@KingNefiiria
Oh no, I just meant the aesthetic side of the game.
Not the mechanics, I just know that FF4 and FF5 were more story based in a fantasy setting rather than sci-fi/steampunk.
Absolutely heartbroken to watch this discussion unfold between two people who have played both and can make a reasonable comparison against three who've never even researched their content. Jirard's monologue was spot on, and his visual pain was completely understandable. Other episodes have reflected this lightly, but this really shows how little Madness cares about it's content, as titles voted by fans get horrendously disrespected with zero to no knowledge to back points up by most of the group. I can't look forward to future matchups/seasons anymore because of this.
I like FFIX more than FFVII
I'm serious.
I know a ton of people who would say the same :) Both are great :D
Same.
FFIX is my favourite thing in any medium. I adore it
100% agree with you my final would be FFIX VS Resident Evil 2
7 is better ..... when people talk about the best game of all time , the say ff7 vs chrono trigger not ff9 for a reason
The real question should be then "Why any of these guys haven't played FFIX before?" Maybe next time bring people who actually have played the games, for most of them Barry said he hasn't played it until a few days before they record this AND that they played the game just for a few minutes, yet he has a vote that counts as much as the others knowing almost nothing about any of these games, brilliant!
ELFKanginFan oh no, someone who isn’t blinded by nostalgia that would actually add their point of view of being new is wrong
@@rebelfriend5172 oh no. Someone who hasn't tried a game is giving their opinion on why that game sucks...
See works both ways
LordOShade the only one who hasn’t tried the game was Jim and he doesn’t say it sucks so way to pay attention to the episode
@@rebelfriend5172 Barry literally said he didn't play it, I think you don't know what you're talking about.
I feel like they're just trying to troll Jirard instead of actually talking about the pros and cons of each game.
At first yea.. but the problem is really that 2 of em havent even played the game... I'm a PC gamer and never touched a final fantasy game.. but from a quick look up on ape escape.. it's pretty clear ff9 is prolly the better game.
This episode was horrendous. This was "Madness", but it wasn't fun to watch nonsensical, unfunny trolling of Jirard. The discussions in prior seasons, even with trolling by Jared, was very fun, even when games and shows were wildly different and host experiences were mixed. This episode has none of that. You can see how It's going to come out in the first minute, because they're using jokes as legitimate arguments. I get this isn't a formal debate, it's fun, and people have bias toward certain things. But you could at least try to let Jirard foster a discussion. Even Barry pissed me off, and I love Barry.
It's annoying to see those kinds of arguments, too. Using your joke as a legitimate argument just makes people mad. And that's honestly the last thing you want to do in a debate, you don't want to make your opponent mad, you want to convince them that your game is better than theirs. And just bashing their game doesn't accomplish that, it just makes them more likely to not want to listen to your argument if you ever come around to explaining it.
Three of the five guys never played FFIX... flawed voting system
Just like the United States.
@@MichaelHeide yeah and i love it
Wait... Caddi hasn't played FFIX? Weren't people saying he is a PS1 ultra fan or something?
There's people and then there's Caddy. His word not theirs. LOL
@@dnmstarsi That's even worse. But people still were defending him with that argument in the comments of previous Madness episodes.
he is not an RPG guy, he also does not like FFVII and he has actually played like 10 hours of that one (looking forward to that episode). I have watched Caddy on and off for years, he is very well versed in the PS1 with the exception of the RPGs (which is admittedly an enormous section of the PS1 games wild arms, persona, FF, Dragoon, jade caccoon, ect.)
@GamingPro1003 Don't get me wrong, he is in his right to like whatever he likes.
But he is still dismissive and interrupting in a discussion he can't give an actual opinion.
@@lirfrank Not really. Caddy is a fan of PlayStation but he has said that he's not a fan of Final Fantasy. It's understandable that he never played FF9 before because he doesn't care for the series even though 9 is one of the best installments in the franchise (right up there with 4, 6, 7, 10 and a few others). It's the fandom's fault for assuming he's a PS fan on that kind of degree.
So let me admit a few things before going forward here:
1) I've never played Ape Escape and my only real exposure to it was Caddy's review of it, which made it seem like a perfectly fine platformer of its era.
2) FFIX is my favorite PS1 era Final Fantasy
3) I was honestly shocked FFIX even made it onto the bracket (we all knew VII was gonna make it, but I figured maybe Legend of Dragoon would be the other JRPG representation here)
This episode really hurt to watch. Thankfully you all admitted how much of a train wreck it was and how one-sided it was gonna be, but jeeeeesus. I understand you all had little to no experience with IX to fairly argue its good points, but the first half of this episode was just "FFIX is garbo even if we think Ape Escape can be a bit ridiculous." I love Barry and Caddy both but some of the comments were so mean-spirited against IX. I was basically Jirard the whole episode.
Having said all that, I will admit that if I was in their shoes, I probably would of been making the same kind of arguments and comments but in the opposite direction, and it's for the same reason things happened like it did here: I have little to no knowledge of Ape Escape but a love for FFIX. So I can't really fault you guys for how this debate turned out. It's probably been said before but maybe giving yourselves a little more time to do research on the topics (instead of an hour or two of a game or a few episodes of a show) can lead to some better debates, or at least prevent train wrecks like this one.
I love you all, please don't take this too harshly, cause I know you're going to get so much flak for this one already. I just know you are capable of better, and hope to see you make this show as great as it can be, because I do still love the premise of this show and want to see it grow!
See, now THIS is how you do constructive criticism properly and maturely. I personally loved this episode, even though like you I did not play Ape Escape and really love FFIX. However, unlike a lot of the comments here and on reddit that share your opinion, you put it politely and constructively. You didn't lose your shit over the results, you just have some things to say about the episode. Thanks for being a reasonable and chill person!
I feel like at 1:10 Jirard looks like a kid listening to his parents fight.
Guys if you haven't played it, why are you here?
I’m genuinely shocked (we’ll, duh, we all are). But I’m shocked for a different reason: why on Earth could you guys not come to the most reasonable way to argue for/against games you haven’t played? Use a base level of knowledge when it comes to longevity and historical significance of a game.
Example:
What did FFIX set out to be? A great JRPG setting out to be better than its predecessors in an already fan favourite series. Historically, even if I haven’t played it, it has stood out over time as a widely referenced game in the series AND in JRPGS as a whole.
Now, what did Ape Escape set out to be? A different way to shake up platformers. Was it good at that? Sure! Okay, what are some other platformers for PS1 that it would need to compete with in terms of significance, longevity and popularity?
.....All Crash, all Spyro, Castlevania (though some will argue that’s its own thing outside of just platforming).
Would I take those games over Ape Escape? Yup!
To me, that’s the end of the discussion. FFIX was more successful at what it set out to do on the PS1 than Ape Escape. Done. End of story. I think that’s as fair as you can get if you haven’t played FF or Ape Escape for that matter.
USE. CONTEXT/HISTORY!
They have gone on the record as saying that Madness isn't supposed to be a conclusive or objective evaluation of what is "the best X" as much as it them talking about "which of these two is better in your personal opinion, based on whatever evaluation you want, right now." It's just for entertainment.
To be fair, you have an excellent idea there but this kind of bizarre argument (Spirit of the N64 anyone?) IS perfectly in-line with Madness.
... Poor FFIX though, I love Ape Escape but... Just poor FFIX.
You guys should probably not have media in the bracket that one person or probably more important 2 people haven’t played/seen.
One person, understandable. The odds that all 5 people have watched or seen the thing in question are pretty low. So having one person not having played FFIX would have been fine. But two is too much. It basically guarantees two votes to the other game, and as a result that game has an enormous lead by default.
I'm willing to argue they should actually pick judges based on familiarity with the media, not the other way around.
Nerdy George Washington Whats frustrating is that they dominated the discussion. Like, if you haven't played one of the games, let someone who has actually tell you how good it is. Don't just make fun of it because you haven't played it. Like, is there no way to be even slightly unbiased in these videos?
I'm not gonna say one deserved the vote over the other, but you guys can't have a thorough discussion if 2 of you never played one of the games! I thought you guys even research the topics before coming to the table, but didn't give one of the top 12 voted finalists any sort of beforehand analysis, let alone a fair shake?
I'm sorry, but this whole series of madness has completely become null and void to me. For future reference guys, and I am not sure how the rest of the internet feels about this; if playing these games that you are not familiar with means madness doesn't come out as often, PLEASE PLAY THESE GAMES. If they would have played the first hour of FFIX, this bracket would not have turned out the way that it did. This episode disappointed me, sorry guys.
Myranna Knight you weren't considering this anything professional of course. Only people who understand this as a friendly discussion with friendly gamers talking can find this entertaining. People who take this as a groundbreaking debate series will find disappointment. I know your not the ladder and have ingeniously decided you just don't enjoy seeing people talk about games casually. Btw caddy would ultimately chose ape escape anyway, and the laptop guy would chose ape escape as well, I think the results would have been the same either way. Just remember neither of these games had a chance of winning the whole tournament.
your just mad ape escape is the better game
@@Imanol897 I understand completely that this is only a casual discussion about games! I don't consider this to be the ultimate truth. I just wish that the panelists had more experience with all of the games in order to make a more well rounded and interesting discussion. I made this comments weeks ago, so I'm past my frustration, lol. I just wish there was more prep involved; that's just my personal preference. :)
@@myrannaknight7652 yeah i get it. My caddicarus fanboy was on a high mode at the time.
I was okay with every discussion up until this point.
Even the ones i disagree with had arguments behind it, be it good or bad.
I haven't played Final Fantasy IX.
I haven't played Ape Escape.
But half of this discussion was just making jokes sarcasticaly implying that Ape Escape was better than Final Fantasy IX. By the end of the discussion the only one who elaborated well on the characteristics of their game choice was Jirard. Aside from the one moment when Barry was serious in explaining that he had fun with it, he just kept joking the entire video.
Don't get me wrong, i like that you are having fun, but when these jokes are what put Ape Escape ahead of Final Fantasy IX it feels unfair both as a result as it is unfair to the only person who has played the other game and was actually trying to have a discussion.
Whenever it was a tie, Forrest usually disclosed his opinion and when he hasn't played a game he usually went with what where the better arguments. 90% of what was in favor of Ape Escape was jokes and plain statements of what the game has for comedic effect while Jirard, the only one who played the other game, actually went on to explain the caracteristics of the game but he barely got a chance to do that since everyone was joking.
Forrest just decision felt like it was just for the sake of going with the joke instead of a fair decision based on the arguments.
As someone who has no emotional atatchment or nostalgic feeling for either game, this was just plainly Unfair.
Agreed.
This episode is a joke. Every participant should have enough experience with both subjects to provide a legitimate debate. Shane and Jirard had experience with both but Caddy, Barry, and Forrest couldnt provide any meaningful insight for FFIX. I understand that this show is in its relative infancy and that its yours to produce how you see fit but maybe consider retooling it so that you dont have completely laughable episodes such as this. I would have been fine with Ape Escape winning if those who voted for it were able to actually make good arguments as to why its better than FFIX. Love you all and hopefully this doesn't happen again in future episodes.
you guys need to go back to how you began this show by asking yourself "what is the better X". There was no discussion of that in this episode. You can not play something, do your research, and still make an informed decision. This entire season has been bad, but this was awful. No meaningful comparison of graphics, story, art direction, impact, or "which to shoot into space" happened. Very disappointed.
Forrest was improving each episode as a mediator. Then this episode comes. And i didn't play neither game, but this episode was just trolling without arguments. He should've voted for FFIX based on one side arguing and the other one just trolling.
He hates jrpg’s. When you think about it, debates aren’t meant to and never have been about changing opinions. In actual debate the two debaters aren’t deciding who won but a set of judges and the judges are told to be impartial and to forget their beliefs, but 8/10 times they don’t actually drop those beliefs and that’s what is happening here.
Biffyguy Biffy Doesn’t he like FF7 though?
Chill Player 123, yes he does but there are always expectations, for example I hate fighting games but love street fighter.
FF8 is my favorite game of all time. I was upset it wasn't on the bracket at all, but it wasn't unexpected. Looking back on it now I thank God its been spared from this group.
FF8 is one of my least favorite Final Fantasy games (2 being my absolute least favorite). I feel like you spend more time summoning and pressing the square button to boost throughout most of it than you do much else. You can cheese the game by deconstructing a tent and using high level cure as a HP boost giving you thousands of HP when you're only supposed to have a 100 or two for the first disk or two.
Hey, for next season, can we get a full panel that, I dunno, has experienced everything in the bracket? Kthx
There is way too much "I've never played this game, here is why this other game is better" this season
Lol oh man! I'm starting to question if randomizing the bracket is really that fair. I think Parapa vs Ape Escape and FFVII vs FFIX would have been way more interesting conversations.
Wow, Madness got me to retroactively dislike Ape Escape. Can’t even call this a debate
After watching this, I think that Madness should be changing out hosts. I love Forest, he's great, but I think having a more impartial judge based on the game/bracket entrants would be a lot more fair. The outcome of this round was obvious from the start; It was 3 against 2, 2 of the 3 who hadn't even played IX before. If the host was somebody who hadn't played either, or who liked both equally, it would have been a fair match, but having Forest in the host slot unarguably weighted the scales towards Ape Escape.
Just don't let it be Gareth from FTCR. Watch his "Great Sonic Adventure Debate" to know what I'm talking about.
On a sidenote, things are going to get insane when they get to the "Best Sonic games" bracket.
I can feel Shane and Jirard's fury emanating over the internet.
Shane and Jirard are like dying on the inside during this whole thing
Three people who have never played ff9, but liked ape escape vs two people who played both. Muchachos, Try the games before you judge which is better
its definitely a flawed system, but its not like these discussions actually hold any meaning, its just for fun
Furst played FFIX
I can relate to Jirard and Shane throughout this whole episode....
bros literally complaining about ape escape's jump button being the trigger but final fantasy doesn't even have a jump button.
Ape Escape is pretty good.
Please bring madness back! I love hearing people who love games talk about games and while I'm sure there are videos for that out there, these are the ones I know about. Maybe for a comeback, do a bracket on indie games?
Madness: Jirard and Shane were very mad in this episode. We have fulfilled the status quo.
The soundtrack of Ape Escape is pretty sweet. That game got me into electronic music.
I'm not angry, I'm just disappointed.
So incredibly disappointed.
Proud to dislike this. I've criticized Furst for his absolute garbage "I'll vote for what had the better argument regardless of the quality of the games in question" logic but I respected that he's stuck to it and remained consistent, until now. Where he goes with the two people who did nothing but joke for fifteen minutes and wouldn't let Jirard talk, then when he finally did he made an actual argument, which is definitively better than just joking, and Furst votes for the jokes. Bottom line, get someone else to tiebreak, please.
I must have missed the episode where they said "This series is totally serious and the game that wins is objectively the best game ever made and the others suck". They were just joking around, and the entire series is just meant to be low-stakes banter between the Normal Boots guys. If that's not your thing, just go watch a serious video game review channel, there are plenty out there.
I really enjoy Madness as a show but that episode was a disgrace. 5 people round a table debating which is better: a game that everyone has completed vs a game that hardly anybody has picked up and knows nothing about. Worst of all they kept shutting down any mention of FFIX for half the episode so Jirard couldn't build an arguement. Get it together guys
I like how after last episode, when Caddy touching Jirard's arm became a meme, this episode comes out where almost every shot could be a meme...
1:10 when you know your friends are joking but your still getting triggered and you are trying to hold it back.
But... the best Final Fantasy though? I can't believe we don't have Jared on this episode at least.
Who said that best FF? FFVI is obviously best FF! They talk here about best PS1 FF.
@@TheRezro Which is easily 9
I've never felt bitter watching an episode of this lol, but I'm half way through and all I taste is salt. FF7 will get all the praise yet 9 is better and gets none
Steven Adams FF7 is much iconic than 9 though.
The sad sad life of ff9
@@chillplayer1234 -- Just because something is "iconic" doesn't make it better. VII is horribly outdated. It's great for its time, but it has not aged gracefully at all. Final Fantasy IX is an improvement over tradition FF games.
Mallory Carll Play the PS4 port then? It added a lot with a fast-forward button.
@@chillplayer1234
All I can say is if you have to fast forward a game.... well is it a game worth playing?
The answer btw is yes. Of course 7 is iconic, amazing. But I'd still play 9 any day over 7
Okay. Well played, Madness! 👏 I must admit you got me. Caught me completely off guard. I never expected it at all. Thank you for the early X-Mas present by revealing your April Fool's Day joke a whole 4 months early. Cheers!
However now that the early festivities and fun & games have been done earlier than usual it is now time to publish the REAL PS 1 GAME VERSUS MADNESS to the channel. I await the upload!
Actual discussion starts at 13:40. You're welcome.
Forrest Lee is extremely biased in this one... I think he's even the most biased at the table. Because his attacks on FF9 were more intended to let Ape Escape win and not to make this conversation funnier. Barry and Caddy had mostly the intention to be funny. Forrest didn't talk remotely positiv about FF9 and didn't do any effort to lead the conversation to a point, where the game is at least covered enough. And oh man, a host shouldn't be a little bit biased at all. Especially not, when you established him as the one, that should be the unbiased one. But at least it's a funny discussion.
If Berry hasn't played any PlayStation games up until this point, can you please remove him from this bracket and bring in someone who has? I'm not saying anything bad about him, he just doesn't have the context needed to fairly discuss these games.
Losers bracket looking pretty good right about now lol.
the real winner might come from the losers bracket, I've not agreed with much on the winners side lol
Guys the show is called madness, this is basically whose game is it anyways were the points don't matter, They are just having fun discussing this stuff for jokes. Quit taking it so damn seriously.
These are some really bad takes I feel so bad for Jirard he was so short circuited in this conversation and poor Shane too he was so angry
Barry's really embracing being a heel in this episode. It almost makes me forgive him for hating on FF9...almost. :p
I hope he turns straight into it. Just be the most heelish judge, always bringin it up and grinding down the fan favorites.
Just a few short steps from coming to the table in a robe and yelling "WOOOOOOO".
This discussion was horrible, Ape Escape wins vs Final Fantasy IX,ridiculous...
And ResE2 beat symphony of the night. It’s their show. This isn’t a definitive what’s better it’s just 5 dudes talking about shit.
I feel Shane & Jirard so much in this and I've never played FFIX. It's a mood I feel every JRPG fan goes through at least once in their lives.
The disappointment on Shane and Jirard's face.
Dear NormalBoots: YOU NEED TO DEVELOP METRICS TO COMPARE THE GAMES CONSISTENTLY! Three seasons of Madness and this still hasn't happened. Sure, your method is different from other "Best of" series. But gamers feel strongly about these games, so they crave the satisfaction or consolation from hearing logical REASONS for their childhood game winning or losing. From ProJared's "essence of an N64 game" argument to Furst ditching his role as facilitator and blatantly campaigning for Batman to 3 of the 5 judges never having played the game AND having bias against JRPGs, the comments section always flares up when the illogical, inconsistent and unfair "Madness" of the show affects things.
Wanna fix things? Here's a simple rule: All judges must play (or have played) at least 30 minutes of any game in order to vote on it. If they haven't played a game, they must recuse themselves (not vote that time).
This was the first legitimately bad episode of madness....not because the better game lost (it did) but because 3 people who hadn't even played it weren't willing to be persuaded.
Better be FFIX or I'm gonna...
I dunno what I'll do.
Ornil RIOT
I unsubscribed
@@michaelmcmahon17 I thought about unsub'g...
@@unitearica Their other Maddess seasons broke me, this ended me. They often don't really watch or play everything. they argue stupid shit about why it makes a game good or bad then ignore it with other ones. They have no criteria. Like the N64 one. They would vote for a game cause it had great single player and then good games would lose to meh multiplayer games cause "multiplayer is the essence of N64". The series had potential but Lee is a terrible host, Jirard is never allowed to actually talk Shane seems defeated half the time and most of the other guests have been clowns.
This actually wasn't even a meaningful discussion. It was just all nonsense about Ape Escape...
Come on guys, I've loved every other episode in every other season... but that was just an absolute mess. If you're going to put a game in the bracket, please make sure everyone has played it to completion.
I was laughing so hard the whole time Caddi and Barry were making funny arguments for Ape Escape and seeing Jirard get steamed, thinking "oh they're just bullshitting because they're gonna let FFIX win." Then three people voted for Ape Escape.
I love how the Americans in this episode are pissed off of the Brits dry sense of humor
Officially calling shenanigans. Two out of the five panelists having no experience with one of the games is ridiculous. How could it possibly have been a fair matchup? Motherfucking shenanigans.
XD Gerard, why do you tolerate these philistines?
Final Fantasy VII is more iconic, IX is the better game
Personally I still prefer VII and I say that as someone who didn't grow up with VII. IX is still a VERY close second though for me.
@@DevilHunter1994 Fair enough :)
I know I'm two weeks late to the discussion, but I believe if you're going to have people argue for or against something, you should have people who have experienced the content of the discussion in order to give context. While I'll give you all credit for tackling the difficult discussion of best overall game, it would be better Suited for the discussion if you have equal numbers of people on both sides of the argument who can argue for or against their choice.
TL DR; Trainwreck confirmed.
I don’t care how outrageous this episode was, but god damn was this HILARIOUS
I don't think they understand that the jump button on the trigger was a deliberate decision so the gadgets could be easier to accese using the face buttons. It would be a lot more confusing with X as the jump button and R1, R2, L1, and L2 switching between the gadgets.
I'm not one to comment on youtube videos, and I'm aware that commenting feeds the algorithm all the same, but this episode is just poor all around and incredibly frustrating to watch.
Don't get me wrong; the show as a concept is interesting, but others have already put it better;
'Not mad, just disappointed. Came in expecting the typical banter and bringing in the legitimate highs and lows of each game and objectively comparing them. Instead, I got a bunch of hollering and trolling that lead to a baseless decision. I'm sure a point could have been made either way if either sides were able to speak without being talked over like reasonable hosts but, this is clearly a kindergarten corral now and shouting will win over a sound discussion every time.'
'This episode was... considerably worse than others. I don't even have a dog in this fight having not played either game. But damn this episode felt mean spirited, and it felt like arguments were taken in bad faith, especially Cad. Contrasted with the cartoon series, where if someone hadn't seen much/any of a show it always felt like the shows were still given a fair shake by the participants. I like everyone here but this was a really poor showing, I hope the rest of this season isn't like this.'
'There is a difference between playing devil's advocate and being a troll. I'm not saying that they shouldn't joke around at all, but they shouldn't make jokes to cut off someone's legitimate points. '
My input:
A show that debates games vs game to determine which is the best, you'd expect the majority to have played at least some of the game, if not the majority, or perhaps a more balanced line in terms of panelists. I'm not one of these 'anti so and so' people. In fact, the more I think about it, the more I quite like the outsider looking in (Barry in this case). It adds a unique perspective.
HOWEVER, that said, they have to have had SOME experience with the game beforehand, and not just the 30mins they seem to get revisiting the games. In this instance, to have a majority with little to no experience on the matter (in terms of FF9) or just straight up open disdain for the genre is just a waste of time and a insult to the integrity of the concept of the show and the intelligence of its viewers.
There will always be an argument to be had in terms of subjectivity vs objectivity, and while I don't believe it's possible to be totally objective, it is possible to attempt it in at least some way, shape or form.
Sure peoples opinion on these DOES matter; it's why having different panelist makes for an interesting debate, and sure, there is 'comedic' value to the heavy handed subjectivity/ trolling angle...but, as stated before 'There is a difference between playing devil's advocate and being a troll. I'm not saying that they shouldn't joke around at all, but they shouldn't make jokes to cut off someone's legitimate points.'
The way this 'debate' was presented in this episode is flagrantly an 'us vs them' belligerent kind of mind set, that puts you at immediate irreconcilable odds in a debate, which is a completely moot point, and seems totally at odds with the shows goals. This is present a little in all episodes (that comedic value) but here it was all there was.
Even with the Batman episodes there was SOME attempt to balance the argument.
It absolutely removes any sort of satisfaction, intrigue or relevance from the 'debate' in this episode outside of 'lol trollz.'
This episode could have been a 30 second affair, achieved the same goals and arguably been better for it.
'
I hope they understand that most of the dislikes aren't just butthurt FFIX fans but actually probably people who genuinely didn't like how o e sides the discussion In this episode was, None of them had finished FFIX but that doesn't mean they have to dismiss everything it has going for it and saying "app escape had so and so (too).'
I never played FFIX, and I stopped watching season 3 after this episode. That argument was just... so dumb... Anybody can see that.
Never played 9 and Ape Escape is one of my favorite games. Even I was super disappointed by how this turned out. Since both likes and dislikes help now, I disliked this video. Feedback is important and I really really want to like this show since I like a lot of these RUclipsrs.
How can you argue against a game you haven't played?!
This does feels like trying to convince the Vegan how good a Steak is, yet they will still choose a salad as the best food just because (1) they dont like meat (jrpg), or (2) they never taste a Steak before.
Jirard made a really good analogy on that.
I'm not a huge FFIX fan, so I'm not really hurt or anything, but these guys really don't seem to know what a subjective opinion is. Saying "JRPGs aren't my thing" doesn't make you seem dumb, but critiquing a game on that basis does. Why are there 3 guys in this season who aren't really into JRPGs? In the JRPG-mastersystem-PLAYSTATION-ONE season? Seems poorly planned.
PS1 madness part 3: The Triggering of the Khalil.
This wasn't even a fair fight with no one actually playing the games!
This was hands down the funniest episode yet. XD
Don't listen to the haters. This show is for entertainment, and isn't intended to be taken as fact.
Caddicarus, Barry and Lee meme around and Shane and Jirard can't take the joke: The Episode
okay, i wouldn't have a problem with ape escape winning if it actually won based on the discussion. There was basically no serious discussion for why ape escape is a better game, whereas jirard poured his heart and soul out telling exactly why FFIX is an amazing game. SO basically i think Forrest wasn't really being an unbiased tie breaker because based off the arguments, FFIX should have clearly won.
If this were any every day discussion on favorites.. I'd say all the power to you. But you turned this into a tiny tournament of debates on which are the best PlayStation 1 games. I know you're not the ones to choose the games that go up there.. nor control who's paired up against who.. but the least you could do is prepare yourself and try to become familiar with the games listed so it's a more solid debate.
The participants who haven't played a game in discussions shouldn't take part at all. Or even simply just postpone the discussion. A game shouldn't automatically lose due to bias nor people not caring to bother making fair and logical arguments of the pros and cons for both sides.
All this was is "I never played FFIX so it loses automatically" or "I hate JRPGs so I'm not gonna even bother trying it". Or voting against it because it's a JRPG.. which is fine and all but that's a personal opinion. This is about, logically and realistically, which is the better game.
Only Jirard provided any solid argument at all.. only to be talking to thin air. Poor Shane felt stuck and was unable to say much.. while the other 3 just laughed and didn't care at all about what Jirard had to say.
This episode was a disaster and poorly arranged. I'd like to hope that perhaps next time you guys would get familiar with any of the participating games or shows in your discussion.. that way a solid opinion is made. Not this.. nonsense we got stuck watching.
Not very impressed. Want to make casual chats and troll about topics? Just don't make it a competition between shows or games.. especially when some of you are in no position to get into debates on it.
This episode was a mess. I personally haven't played either, and just based on my personal preferences and the impression both games give I would say FFIX
Honestly, this has been my favorite episode so far. You have to bring back Caddy and Barry together in the future. They made this episode so much fun to watch.
So I started replaying FF9 yet again just before this season of madness started and I had no idea it would be on the bracket. I've beaten it numerous times, one of my favorites of all time. You did the best you could Jirard, given the circumstances.
So, we have a series about PS1 games, yet Jirard is the only one who has really played any of them... Disappointing season.