Undaunted: Normandy Review - Sharp as a Box of Bayonets
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- Опубликовано: 1 окт 2024
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I don’t think I’ve ever been more proud to be a donator for this content than I am now. Amazing review.
I came here for the review of Undaunted, a game I got last fall for our breaks. I will leave saluting your poignant criticism of the setting. I understand the designers played it safe here, but I hope this can change in the future. Fantastic work Quinn, proud to be a past donor to SUSD. /Flo
This honestly reminded me of a TGW segment. Cool to see you in these comments, Flo!
So there were Indians at Sword Beach ? I didnt know. Iknow the Indian forces played a huge role fighting alongside the Aussies in the Desert Campaign, and they fought the Japanese in India and Burma. Very cool. I will have to look that up.
There are many stories from non-American perspectives that deserve to be told, but I don't fault Americans for centering American soldiers' stories.
@@Contrapulator I do because they had the least risk within said war.
@@Contrapulator I dont get why people complain, just make your own damn game about your nation. Surprise people usually like themselves more than others.
Wow. Sobering and genuine. Definitely a departure of style. Not what I expected from a board game review, but something well deserved. Well done, Quinns and SU&SD.
Graham Gentz well said
More of this please. Good job.
The British engineered a famine that killed nearly 2.5 million people in India. But, when India appealed to Stalin for food, he sent it right over.
Soon after the transfer of power in 1947, India was faced with an alarming shortage of food grains. The Indian government urgently requested both the US and the USSR to send in food aid. While the American officials were working on the modalities for food grain aid--working out its terms and conditions, when the Indian request reached the Kremlin, USSR, Stalin immediately ordered a food-grain laden ship that was already on its way to a different destination to change course and go to India. A top Kremlin official intervened saying that documents were yet to be completed and signed, to which Stalin replied: "Documents can wait, hunger cannot."
Even today, people in Bengal name their children "Stalin".
@@stayphrosty amazing how many things I have no idea about, our history classes need to be updated pronto.
@@stayphrosty Churchill did a lot of messed up things, but what's your source for this story?
When Quinns says he's closing out the review with 5 minutes left in the video you know shit's gonna get real.
Iie
This is the first time I've ever written a yt comment even though I've been enjoying yt for half a decade. Your video made me want to thank you.
I feel like I'm fairly educated about WW2, more so than the average person, yet I didn't know about India's involvement.
It's always easier to conform to pre-existing narratives but you bucked that and mentioned an important but uncomfortable part of history that isn't being talked about and you did it in a board game review.
I'm more than happy to become your newest monthly donor and support such amazing and courageous content creation.
RUclips? Or whitey? Works either way :)
Hear, hear.
You should also look into China they been fighting WW2 long before any of the allies starting in 1937, and held off the bulk of the Japanese Army. If they didn't WW2 in the Pacific may have turned out completely different as Japan exploits China of its resources and manpower.
Claims to be more educated about WW2 "than the average person" than says about knowing absolutely nothing about India's involvment.... GEEZ! U're an American don't you?
papasnejk87 yup. Americans think the war started when they came in 😂
Great Review as always and thank you so much for spending the immense time you did on researching WW2 and actually visiting the India Gate.
I am an Indian and I genuinely never thought someone would take such interest in this topic and dig so deep to find out truth not just about the war but also about the famine and collateral damage because of world war 2 on Indian people.
Thank you so much. Appreciate your detailed work. Appreciate your admiration of the brave soldiers you mentioned. I'm grateful for your genuine interest and kind words.
I'm really glad you spent the time to give us that history lesson and remind us that the Allies were more than 3 countries. It may give you some hope to know that since 1950 Royal Military Academy Sandhurst has had a memorial room dedicated to Indian soldiers of the British army and cadets are required to meditate there and think on their sacrifice aswell as many ceremonies are held there.
It's refreshing. There tends to be a lot of pushback on the American narrative of WW II, but it tends to be "Actually, the British and Soviets ...", which is a very Eurocentric viewpoint. If you ask an American, they might say World War II began when Pearl Harbor was bombed. If you ask a Brit, they'll tell you it was when the British came to aid Poland. But let me ask: When do you think a Korean might tell you it started? Or the Chinese? It probably isn't going to be years after their own lands were occupied by, and people persecuted by the Axis powers.
@@JamesW6179 ww2 has an objective starting point, it starts with the invasion of Poland... Just because there were other wars going on before or at the same time as ww2 it doesn't mean their start was the start of ww2
@@phantom3969 What "objective" definition are you using?
@@JamesW6179 a bunch of declarations of war between major powers
@@phantom3969 So like 1933 then?
A New Zealander, we have a difficult historical relationship with Winston Churchill. Though he's remembered as a great wartime leader, and perhaps he was, he was also the one who ordered the Gallipoli Campaign in World War I, which killed more New Zealanders than any other war ever - and the campaign was a failure.
Churchill ordered the naval assault, but it was Kitchener and Ian Hamilton in charge of the subsequent land campaign that brought in the New Zealanders.
To be fair it's not like British lads weren't dying.....a lot
Hello, nice to see you here.
@@ElGrandoCaymano Yes but Churchill was in charge of organising it, and he botched it. This was not the time for it and Churchill’s bad handling of the campaign left far less troops and material for the landings.
"Worry a little bit. You're incompetent and men are dying."
Everyday Quinns, everyday..
M. Arx Darkest Dungeon in a nutshell
I read this as "Worry not, your incompetent men are dying."
"1st Sgt Lipton... you get things organized here, I'm gonna go for help."
Thanks for all the post review content - you taking time out to include this story is one of the many reasons I love SUSD.
Solidarity, friend. Don't try to take on the whole world at once, aim for consistency. We can make a difference if we all come together.
You folks not only write good, exhaustive reviews, but excellent comedy and educational, meaningful background and critique as well. Kudos to you and the valuable material you produce.
Agreed.
SU&SD and No Pun Included are absolute gems. Sincere without being preachy and very, very funny.
First off, thank you for the history lesson, I was delighted to learn new, incredible, important things about a war I thought I knew so much about.
Secondly, can I just say it makes perfect sense thematically, that the bigger your decks become, the harder it is for you to get the right cards? It's equivalent to you having more people to command, so it's more difficult for you to issue orders to them reliably.
Also, when you keep looking for this one card but it's already out of the game and you didn't notice, that's like you trying to reach a soldier on the radio, but he's already dead, cold and alone somewhere, but you're not too sure if he's actually dead or you're just having trouble reaching him. But Tom's dead. He's been dead a while now, commander. Please stop saying his name, you're making his brother in the infirmary cry.
Man this game is just a feel-good romp of the century, huh?
I had the same thought. Being a Commander in a bunker when your only vision of the battlefield is conversations on a radio? The tried and true deck building with real stakes when things get added or removed. It's almost creepily well thought out
If you really want important information about WW2 that's generally looked over for propaganda reasons, America and Britain did about jack shit in the fight against the Nazis. The Soviet people were the true heroes of the European theater, taking the main brunt of the German assault as well as the entirety of their racism. The soviets had the most deaths and casualties of any of the involved groups, including the Jews. (Side note: early Soviet POWs were the test subjects for the Holocaust's industrialized murder centers). Even when the US and Britain did open a second front (which was after Russia had started winning against the Nazis), they weren't even fighting the main German army nor were they fighting the best troops Germany had. Most of those had been chewed up in Russia and what was left was trying to stop the Russian advance into Germany. There are a lot more details and anecdotes that you could look up, but I was just pointing out general facts that are almost always overlooked in western societies because God forbid we praise the communists.
And now you just sold me on the game 😄
@@Daye04 I'm trying to avoid those very words haha
@@pewpewpandas9203 But do not forget that Soviet also started the war. They had The Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact with Germany. Germany attacted Poland on 01.09.39, Russians attacted on 17.09.39. Later when Germany attacted Russia, they were like "Oh no, lets join another side".
Poland fighted with German from the beginning on every fronts yet we were put under Soviet influence behind "Iron Curtain". Our forces were not allowed to join Victory Celebration because Soviet would be upset. So we were fighting on wining side from the beginning and we loose.
As a lover of boardgames, a proud Brightonian and a History teacher, this is my probably favourite video on RUclips.
Another quality video.
As an American I agree, we need more history on the other participants of WW2.
Also agreed as an American. I'd love to see Japanese, Italian, French, The various force of the Commonwealth (British Empire), Hungarian, etc.
As a person with a Polish background I would love a game about the Warsaw Uprising or Polish resistance to show and teach people about these events. (In Canada it seems no one my age knows about it.)
@@Ageofpoland1997 Or the defense of Poland. Poland's strategic situation was untenable, Hitler to the west, Stalin to the east, and abandoned by the Allies. The Polish military put up an inspired defense in an impossible situation. Extra Credits did a multipart Extra History segment on it.
@@Ageofpoland1997 Agreed. I'm largely from Polish descent myself (my great grandpa Casimir fought in WW1, he was first generation American on that side of the family). I just want more Polish acknowledgement in WW2 games and other media in general.
@@Ageofpoland1997 "As a person with a Polish background I would love a game about the Warsaw Uprising or Polish resistance to show and teach people about these events."
----
*7 days of Westerplatte* : boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/145103/7-days-westerplatte
Quote: _"The German battleship Schleswig-Holstein began the bombardment of the Polish Military Depot on September 1, 1939, at __04:48__. This symbolic event marks the_ _beginning of the Second World War. For seven days, the 235 defenders in the Polish forces bravely fought the overwhelming German army."_
"Don't worry. Well, do worry a little bit - you're incompetent, and men are dying."
I might have to get that on a mug.
Great review, but I really appreciated story time with Quins at the end. There are so many under appreciated stories through history that don't get the attention they deserve simply because they are incompatible with a particular narrative. Thank you Quins, and thank you Shut up and Sit Down.
How can we change that in the boardgaming world?
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There are great comments on the site saying that many countries are embarrassed of colonial service and don’t want to tell that story. They don’t want to remember putting on a British badge and fighting England’s wars. They don’t want to remember what little they got. And they don’t want to remember being forced to police their countrymen, fight people who looked like them (in World War One), or the pain of fighting Indians who defected to the other side. With all due respect this is more complicated than Quinn’s realizes.
@@stayphrosty 0 ppp pplp
I am from India. I love watching this channel and it was nice to hear Quinns mention Indians in World War 2.
Thanks for the education about India's role in WWII, Quinns -- I really liked it!
Great review! Especially liked the last several minutes of history lesson, context setting, and perspective that we, all, need to understand. With regard to different settings ... with Undaunted gaining more mainstream popularity there is opportunity for them to continue to expand and shed a light on other theaters, wars, and battle in or out of WW2.
Being and American and a lover of History, I applaud your words! I started out very interested in WW2 simply because my father was at Pearl Harbor when it was attacked. He had some books, so I started reading about WW2. But I have found the whole D-Day thing rather boring, compared to the rich history of the North Africa campaigns and the Eastern Front. I have read many books about WW2 and have since expanded my interest in other time periods. But I want to agree with you about D-Day getting much of the focus. So many other choices and D-Day I suppose is the one of the more well known events that is perhaps a safe choice if aiming for mass appeal. At any rate, great video, and BRAVO!
Undaunted has a North African version now.
Eastlyn Burkholder interesting!
@@gowensbach2998
Dice Tower's Tom Vassal reviewed it.
Eastlyn Burkholder of course he did! Lol. I will check it out! Probably not a good solo game, but I will still watch for sure...now, in fact
As someone who loves games this was a great review but assomeone who has spent years trying to share the less glamorous stories of history that don't make it to the movies this review was perfect. Thank you for the great video and the even more important message.
You guys are legit the best in the business from both a presentation and a writing standpoint. Bravo.
Total class act. 🖤 Came for the games, stayed for the friends, felt for the story.
"Bob is your grieving uncle" made me laugh harder than it should have
Goddammit, thank you for broadening my horizon. As an Austrian, I never ever heard about those distinguished Indian soldiers fighting in WW2. I am richer for knowing about this piece of history and sacrifice.
As an American, I fully agree with ya Quinns with your point at the very end of the video. I need more stories from all the different fronts of the wars.
Yeah. I consider myself a bit of a history nut, but as an American we didn't cover *any* of what happened after the war was won. I knew Churchill was a Harda$$, but FUC|< !
[Censorship because RUclips is getting weird lately]
@@grishakaleesh4207 Ehhh to be fair, my history classes in high school practically didn't even cover the World Wars. Or war in general. Teachers have tended to move past that sort of teaching paradigm in my experience, and also frankly start running out of time by the 20th century (It's April, kids are getting antsy summer is coming, exams are next month, etc.)
I specifically remember we spent more days discussing the Dryfus Affair than World War I.
@@JamesW6179 Only reason I think I got what little I did was because I took a year-long AP US History class. And my professor was pretty old. He showed us pictures of his dad, his dad's platoon, and brought in the medals.
After we had our AP test we had another two weeks of school so and he saw no point in covering what was on the School Board's syllabus.
We watched Band of Brothers.
He was one of my favorite teachers in my life.
@@edwardrice9170 Wow! That totally "won the war"! Those statistics must be why the Japanese just completely surrendered with no combat in the Pacific or Asia.
Did you even watch the video? Lol. Because a huge focus on it was the sacrifices made by the Indian people in the Japanese campaign.
Well said. Would also like to see common stories (ie D Day) with different protagonists. 2 of the 5 beaches on d day were assaulted by British troops. One of the 5 was assaulted by Canadians. Thousands of free French troops took part. Yet it always US troops portrayed. There were more non-US troops assaulting the beaches on d day than American.
Thank you so much ! As an Indian being taught about India's invovlement only later on in college in World War 2 and being shocked at how poorly represented it is in games, movies and tv shows it is so good to see this .Thank you Quinn and SUSD!
❤️ Thank you.
Best review ever.
Thanks for this video Quinns. My great grandad was in Flanders in 1915, fighting alongside the brits and the Canadians. About a million Indians fought in the First World War, and 62,000 died.
My family moved to Canada 42 years ago, and although I’ve no connection to India anymore, this video did make me a little proud of my Indian genes.
You know, every time I think to myself that this video could use A Brief Aside to talk about cultural context, SU&SD delivers. I will never not appreciate that.
Glenn Alastair There are great comments on the site saying that many countries are embarrassed of colonial service and don’t want to tell that story. They don’t want to remember putting on a British badge and fighting England’s wars. They don’t want to remember what little they got. And they don’t want to remember being forced to police their countrymen, fight people who looked like them (in World War One), or the pain of fighting Indians who defected to the other side.
Wow, this review is in a class of it's own.
The first part was a very well written review that also evoked some of the emotions one experiences through the mechanics. Also the game looks to be extremely appealing.
But the ending is what sets this video apart from other games reviews. A heartfelt appeal for an unbiased use of history as a setting. As a means to inform about the past in a accessible yet sobering way.
And I'm also grateful to you for bringing the fate of the Indian soldiers and civilists during WWII to my attention.
I salute you for this video. You approached a delicate matter in the best way possible.
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There are great comments on the site saying that many countries are embarrassed of colonial service and don’t want to tell that story. They don’t want to remember putting on a British badge and fighting England’s wars. They don’t want to remember what little they got. And they don’t want to remember being forced to police their countrymen, fight people who looked like them (in World War One), or the pain of fighting Indians who defected to the other side.
The ending about Indian soldiers was great, love hearing about things like these! My love for SUSD grows even stronger!
I did not know any of those stories you told at the end. I really appreciate this channel’s focus on inclusion and nuance when it comes to games and the stories it tells through its art and themes.
Thank you!
So, ordered the game when you said you had no negatives about it, I was on the fence until then. But your ending bit about World War 2, both with the over dominace of America as a thing (And I am American) And in the impact of India was well worth it. I personally *strongly* dislike the "MURRICA" mindset: in part because of my major in College was History and I know just how biased that is, but also as you said, things are down played out of shame for what happened before, during, or after, for the people involved.
To be fair though there is only so much time in school to study the subject of history. I think it is worth exploring a more complete perspective but it is important for Americans to understand specifically what Americans did. That being said, I don't think anyone would be against games exploring other perspectives of history. I did a study abroad in college where we visited turkey and saw a graveyard where Australians were essentially sacrificed by the British as a distraction when fighting the Ottoman empire.
That ending was really moving, thank you guys for such consistently great content ❤️
Thank you, Quinn, for the story of the Indian Famine. First time to hear of that, here in Poland. All best!
Thank you for taking the time to address this issue with the same events and portrayals of WWII. It is not just in games, but also films, novels etc. When people are not portrayed we are simply forgotten.
Soldiers are people, they have names and they die and it's sad reminds me of Cannon Fodder computer game
I never did keep Jools and Jops alive.
Yeeeessss! Completely forgot about that game.
That game drove home its serious message with just the right amount of glee and happiness. They use the same tactics for recruiting at the WWI military did; It will be fun, it is an adventure.
But it is not fun, and death is very real, and even when they die, there will be other waiting in line, next to the war cemetery.
Quinns, the last few minutes of this review was superb. Makes me feel bad about forgetting to donate over the holidays. Now going to search for that video with the instructions so I can make amends!
Some of the SUSD videos has such amazingly deep discussions. I remember fondly when I watched the review of "tales of Arabian Nights" and Quinns ended the video with a question. Thank you for the amazing service you guys do for the board game community
I’m only seeing this now, but this is brilliant and easily my favorite SU&SD video. As an Indian, and an American, thank you Quinns. And I hope game designers and publishers will think about these things, as well as the rest of society. We’re all human beings after all.
Excellent review Quinns, this seems like a really fun head to head game! I'd also like to just say, if you ever see this, that as an Irish man, it's very moving to hear an English man highlight some of the horrors that were caused by the British Empire. The Bengal famine was a tragic, and preventable, loss of life. The sacrifice given by the Indians who served in both WWI and WWII should never be forgotten, along with all of the volunteers from all other corners of the empire. I couldn't agree more about the completely unnecessary overblown-ness of Americas involvement in both world wars, and in a way I think this serves to glorify the military in America. If they had had the same loss of life as France, UK, the Soviet Union, Poland, Germany or really anywhere in Europe, I reckon there would be less D-Day themed games and media for us to consume.
"You will have so many turns where you use a Machine Gunner and a Scout to roll a whole bunch of dice... and they all miss."
That's XCO- uhh, wait.
That's Undaunted: Normandy, baby!
That's Warhammer too, then the greenskins will roll 5 times a 6 in a row and everything will be destroyed on your side.
This is the sort of games criticism and writing we need more of. Thanks for ending an excellent review with an even more important piece like this one.
Thank you for a touching review. It felt like the old ones.
I was slightly worried it would be guns and glory humour, but was actually very well targeted, touching and a nice part at the end, thank you.
Very good, perfect job.
I will say that I, literally, never knew of India's involvement and sacrifices during WWII.
I know that as an American my country practically fetishizes it's involvement in the war, and England tends to remain tight lipped about it as well,
but It really knocked my socks off to learn, from a board game review, about this huge chunk of world history for the first time
Thank you. I’m an American with a fairly good grip in history (or think I have, anyway), but it’s always beneficial to get a different perspective.
Not all of our histories are filled with heroes and good decisions. That’s an important lesson.
Thanks again. Keep up the good work!
The Begal famine story is more complex than was presented. The war was tough on all and India sacrificed more than her fair share. Her story deserves to be told more often. But I hesitate to suggest that Churchill was indifferent to or, at worst, encouraged that famine.
winstonchurchill.hillsdale.edu/did-churchill-cause-the-bengal-famine/
@@nrtallarida Thank you for sharing an objectively humbled POV.
Long time SU&SD fan; been subscribed for 4+ years. Although I love a good mid-review turnaround, this may be my favorite review so far. The review was informative, helped me understand who would like the game, included additional recommendations (a fairly new thing and something few reviewers do), and then the historical aspect was very eye opening. I had no idea about any of that.
Much better than recipes. Although surely there isn’t room/content for this with every review.
Tremendous work and tremendous raising of awareness. I love how much good you all do with your platform.
Probably the best SUSD review I've seen to date. No one else is on your level.
AHH this game does look great. I agree our retelling is so jingoistic, even just switch it up and make it about the Russians instead the battle of Kursk was INSANE.. it would be a start
Tom Warner Combat Commander (mentioned at the end of the review) does do this. The base game box has US and Russia as options for the Allies.
Check out Academy Games' Conflict of Heroes: Storms of Steel 3rd Ed. For a great game about Kursk
I couldn't adore Shut Up and Sit Down more. Beautifully, thoughtfully done.
The last 5 Minutes in this review are what sets this channel apart from most others. Thank you.
Well done SU&SD, still pushing the envelope in terms of what a board game review can do. One very proud donator here 🤓
omg wii store music for boy store. literally crying laughing.
You guys continue to be the top of the bar for me when it comes to reviews, opinions, and attitude. Classy ending, and I appreciate that a lot!
It is sad, but I'm glad you took the time to tell the story you did. I'm enamored by war RPGs like Ross Rifles and MASHED, not because i'm fascinated by war as such, but because there are so many narratives that are tossed by the wayside in favor of the big Us v. Them showdowns.
I had no idea that Indians contributed so much to WW1 or WW2, and I'd like to learn more about those untold stories, not only because they deserve to be told, but because I run a post-war D&D game, and that kind of nuance and humanism is exactly what I need to convey the reality, as opposed to the romance, of war. Maybe Undaunted: North Africa and future expansions will..well, expand on the role that nations who aren't US, Germany, and Britain had in shaping history. Cheers.
If they do an expansion on the Burma campaign there will be plenty of Indians
3:20 This floored me. It's those tiny bits of comedy that puts shut up & sit down on the top for me. Amazing review, went and got the game minutes after watching.
Me: I won't watch the review because I sure don't need more games. Me balfway through: wellll. But really I love how you guys always take us to the social and poltical issues. Always worth it to think about context.
That was a really interesting history lesson! Thanks for teaching me something new (and deeply saddening) about India
Thank you for raising my awareness of important historical events and to hopefully improving much needed diversity within the board game community.
Keep up the great work 👍
16:54 Holy shit, what a legendary badass. These are the stories that need to be told! Thank you so much for telling them!
I absolutely loved the ending to this video. I would love a Shut Up & Sit Down Story Time channel.
Absolutely fantastic review, as always. And a brilliant last five minutes with deserved mention of how many other nations sacrificed so much in the ‘great’ wars.
Wow. I just came for a board game review, but I really appreciate your input at the end. Very moving. I am definitely going to be looking further into Indian WW2 stories. And suddenly I don't feel like Churchill was quite the glorious hero we make him out to be. Great work Quinns!
wow, it's been a while since I watched a SUSD video, but boy am I glad I decided to watch this one. Made me remember so well why I once thought it would be fair to start supporting you guys with more than just views. No doubt you guys deserve every cent. Keep up the awesome work
I really appreciate what you had to say regarding the history of India during WWII.
I came here to watch a board game review instead I got punched in the feels. Great message
Thank you for speaking truth so clearly and not fudging the realities and tragedies of war. The ethnic discrimination that happened in the two ‘great’ wars has its effects today sadly. A fantastic review and worthy tribute to those who laid down their lives, and those who can truly be called heroes.
I am new to board gaming as a hobby and have only recently found SUSD and really appreciate all that you are doing
My grandma told me that one of the nearest village by their home (west side of Hungary) had a "visitor" in the last few months of the war. A black fella landed there after his plane was shot down. Many people visited this village after the incident ecause these people (and their elders...) never seen a black men in their life.
Btw thank you so much for the review! I always wanted to buy a game like this but there were too "much" and complicated or just missed something that I wanted. But now, I jsut bought the game right after the review! Thanks!
Thanks for another great review, but most of all - thanks for “story time” at the end! I’m from Russia and I definitely agree, that there are overload of Normandy-inspired games (and maybe not only games - even if I interested in history, in media we have only D-Day, “Magino-Line-fail” like Dunkirk and local movies (lots of it, but most of all - only about USSR parts, and they are pretty “mainstream” too)), so I really hope that someday it’s changed. Not gonna disrespect honor of Normandy solders, thanks to him for all. But I wish that we can see another sides of history and this terrible, but so important War. Hope that someday here, in Russia, we could make a world-known game about our terrors and achievements... But what I really wish - is that there is be no more new “real life based material” for future Wargames. “(War) What is it good for absolutely nothing!”
Sorry for this chunk of text and for bad grammar, that is definitely not my strong part, but this perfect ending just made me write it. I hope that it’s not get offensive for anyone, good luck and thank you, SU&SD, for another small shiny diamond of board games reviews :)!
❤
@@Dorian_sapiens & Dreadnote there are hundreds of games on Russia and the East Front. More than ANY other category by far. This and the videos assertion to that regard is incorrect. Nearly everyone who plays any type of wargames understands the loss ratios and where they happened. China/Russia being hte top two nations for civilian and military casualties.
Dreadnote1337 Yeah the soviets asked for D Day to happen years earlier but the allies refused because they thought it would be too bloody to fight in Europe. Even though millions were dying in Russia in even worse fighting.
Copy to arrive here in a few days. This reaffirms my choice with getting it and the Battle of Britain box as well.
BUT - THANK YOU FOR THE LAST PART OF THIS VIDEO! YES - you are absolutely right about the gaming narrative when it comes to WWII.
17:37 - they must have left this story out of "the Crown" for some reason... Thanks for this.
It sounds like you feel really strongly about this; perhaps you can review some of the many many games made by GMT, VPG, Decision Games, Hollandspiele, Histogames, Phalanx, and others that cover different conflicts?
Some of my favorite games about Britain's troubled history with Asia include Pax Pamir, John Company, Gandhi, and An Infamous Traffic. Three of those games made by the same designer as Root, the only game you've covered from him thus far. Much like publishers, perhaps you believe that is what sells?
Thank you so much for the review as well as the great historical excursus at the end of the video. It is impressive, how you brought to mind, that board games need to be understood as a potentially powerful source of how people perceive history, and create cultural memory. Emphasizing these aspects really distinguishes your channels' approach from many others out there: You grasp board games as a cultural phenomenon, developed and played by human beings - and that therefore needs to looked at critically. Thanks again and greetings from Germany.
Have you been to the Chattri Finns? If you park up/get the bus up to patcham near the rspca you can walk there in about 20-30 mins, it’s the site where they cremated/memorialised those Indian troops who didn’t make it. Those racist people out there need to know what the Indians gave and also how despicably they were treated by GB in return
What a great video. I have to say though, it really made me want a SUSD review of "Gandhi", the new GMT COIN game with a nonviolent faction.
COIN games have always been a tad too much for me to dive into, but I think SUSD could really bring a lot of deftness to a review of them, or at least Gandhi.
Vince Alvarez I suspect COIN is more complicated than SU&SD would prefer. They tend to have a personal taste for more streamlined, social games. I bet they’d love the concept but not the playtime and rules overhead.
@@maxducoudray They made written reviews of some COIN games in the past. So no, they are not to complicated for them. But I think, for people like Vince Alvarez, Gandhi might not be the best intro to the system, even if the prospect of a nonviolent faction might appeal. It just has more chrome then other games. Most people recommend Cuba Libre to begin with.
Markus Schmidt I believe their written review content is created by a wider variety of reviewers, so there’s a greater range of game types there than in video.
@@markusschmidt9260 It's not super clear in my original comment, but I did come to my conclusion about COIN games after a few stabs at Pendragon and Fire in the Lake. I have, however, read through the rulebook and playbook for Cuba Libre and agree it is a great starting point for someone totally green to the system. They are fun games, just not for me. If I'm gonna spend half a day playing a game, I'd rather it be an 18xx game. :p
Really cool to see someone point out that world war 2 was more than just the West and what was made popular because the winners pushed those few battles. Thanks Quinns from a Asian in Asia. It is much appreciated.
This was an excellent review, especially for the history lesson at the end. Thank you for taking the time and energy to explain that backstory, and thank you too for your plea to game designers to expand their repertoire of stories. I couldn't agree more.
I like how scrabble is in the dark heart of Quinn's collection
Awesome review. Last part was brilliant. Learnt a lot and you are right to say and include this.
You guys are something else! In one video review, Quinns is dressed as Batman, in another Matt's dressed as a space worm and now you bring attention to something that most board gamers (& most people) never give a second thought too. Thank you for the last five minutes. I would have enjoyed the video without it but we are all better off seeing! Thanks for taking the time to create something more than a board game review. I love that you review games while also making me think about social and historical issues. Cheers!
This is exactly why you are by far the best board game content creator period. Amazing.
Thank you so much Quinns and all the SU&SD team. I've not played this game yet and I fully intend to following your review. But before then, I intend to reread my grandfather's memoirs of his experience in WW2 retreat from Burma. On first reading them I was all in my own family's head space, trying to understand what it was like for old pa. Now I intend to reread them and try and draw out the experiences I'm sure he would want people to know of the sacrifices by the natives of those lands, those he fought beside. Thank you. I came to see what you guys thought of a game. I've left challenged to do and be better - with no judgement, just a simple sobering nudge.
Thank you for those last 5 minutes Quinns. They were beautiful and heart-wrenching.
I don't comment often on RUclips but fair play dude, particularly right now that was a really poignant and important story to tell.
This was epic.
The hobby needs more "reviews" like this.
Thank you.
Did not expect a video/content where you spoke in detail about India and her involvement in the world war 2. Thanks for sharing this with the world.
Well done on this review and the message at the end. Wholeheartedly agree.
Very interesting to hear about the huge Indian contribution to the British war effort! One thing though: let's not judge Churchill too harshly before informing ourselves from all sides of the issue. This short, more positive article may help to bring some balance: winstonchurchill.org/resources/in-the-media/churchill-in-the-news/indias-famine-would-have-been-worse/ Some highlights from the article:
- Once Churchill's cabinet became aware of the severity of the problem, it "agreed to send 200,000 tons of grain to India" in 1943.
- The "harvest of 1943 was one of the largest in India’s history" (just not in Bengal).
- Brittain was at war at the time and was stretched for resources, particularly shipping.
That doesn't make it any less horrible for the millions of Bengali that starved, of course.
In any case, thanks for the nice video!
That was actually really interesting to learn and something I never knew about, thanks for the history lesson Quinn!!!
I'm a bit late to the party of this particular review, but bravo on the coda discussing the unsung Indian heroes of WW2. America has the same problem of white-washing our history (especially when it adversely affects Native Americans and Black Americans). You show a tremendous amount of class by acknowledging the heinous and overtly racist oversights your countrymen once committed against those Indian allies. Should I find myself in Britain, I will make a point to see that museum. Well done, Quinns.
Plus, the game looks kick-ass, too.
Going above and beyond as usual. Great review!
It's always good to hear unheard voices from history but I don't think history should twisted just to get more publicity. Seeing as most of the critism of Churchill came from uncited hearsay and quotes taken out of context I thought I'd add some of my own. It's hardly as clear cut as suggested, Britian didn't deny India aid for starters.
Winston S. Churchill to William Mackenzie King
4 November 1943
“Your offer is contingent however on shipment from the Pacific Coast which I regret is impossible. The only ships available to us on the Pacific Coast are the Canadian new buildings which you place at our disposal. These are already proving inadequate to fulfil our existing high priority commitments from that area which include important timber requirements for aeroplane manufacture in the United Kingdom and quantities of nitrate from Chile to the Middle East which we return for foodstuffs for our Forces and for export to neighbouring territories, including Ceylon. Even if you could make the wheat available in Eastern Canada, I should still be faced with a serious shipping question. If our strategic plans are not to suffer undue interference we must continue to scrutinise all demands for shipping with the utmost rigour. India’s need for imported wheat must be met from the nearest source, i.e. from Australia. Wheat from Canada would take at least two months to reach India whereas it could be carried from Australia in 3 to 4 weeks. Thus apart from the delay in arrival, the cost of shipping is more than doubled by shipment from Canada instead of from Australia. In existing circumstance this uneconomical use of shipping would be indefensible.”
Cabinet papers
24 April 1944
"The Prime Minister said that it was clear that His Majesty’s Government could only provide further relief for the Indian situation at the cost of incurring grave difficulties in other directions. At the same time, there was a strong obligation on us to replace the grain which had perished in the Bombay explosion. He was sceptical as to any help being forthcoming from America, save at the cost of operations of the United Kingdom import programme. At the same time his sympathy was great for the sufferings of the people of India."
Winston S. Churchill to President Franklin D. Roosevelt
29 April 1944
"I am seriously concerned about the food situation in India and its possible reactions on our joint operations. Last year we had a grievous famine in Bengal through which at least 700,000 people died. This year there is a good crop of rice, but we are faced with an acute shortage of wheat, aggravated by unprecedented storms which have inflicted serious damage on the Indian spring crops. India’s shortage cannot be overcome by any possible surplus of rice even if such a surplus could be extracted from the peasants. Our recent losses in the Bombay explosion have accentuated the problem.
...
By cutting down military shipments and other means, I have been able to arrange for 350,000 tons of wheat to be shipped to India from Australia during the first nine months of 1944. This is the shortest haul. I cannot see how to do more."
Big thumps up for the review, and the perspective in the end! However, I'm always a bit saddend when people tell heroic war stories, like those of the indian heroes in this section. Yes, it might be impressive in a certain kind of way, but to light up while saying that someone then continued to kill several more men, seems like a sad and wrong continuation of a culture of war appraisal and hero-fixation.
I get that for all the american 'heros' already sung, it would only be fair to give some praise to an unsung heroic sacrifice. But the injustice repeats itself in a smaller scale, when singing the song of the killer, and forgetting the killed.
I am usually on the side of pacifism. However, those Indians were killing men who were fighting in service of fascism - two regimes well invested in ethnic cleansing. There can not be debate nor a peaceful solution with such an ideology.
@@PierrotLeFoul I don't think there's any doubt that they fought a fight worth fighting, but rather that the act of killing, should not be re-told as glorious or heroic, but ought to be told with a sense of sadness or regret. They were living, feeling people, born on the wrong side of history, that in this case, probably, 'had to' die for the world to move away from fascism.
If you're interested in WWII games that cover other theaters and participants (including India), might I suggest the breezy, lightweight wargame Advanced Squad Leader? (It actually has a rule where you can't fire a PIAT downwards because the shell would fall out). (Also, spoiler, it's not breezy or lightweight, I lied)
And let's not forget what Ernest Hemingway said: "Anyone who loves freedom owes such a debt to the Red Army that it can never be repaid."
+
Probably Ernest Hemingway (as a communist) didn't like the fact what people of eastern Europe "owned" to the Red Army
Great review, but even better quick hit history. Best 3-4 minutes I've watched in a long while.
Today I learned about an amazing new game, *and* just how much of a bootscrape Winston Churchill was!
Quinns, you are an excellent human being and this is the best kind of thing to put that excellence towards. Thank you for spreading understanding, knowledge, and recognition as well as making spectacular reviews. Loved learning about this and will remember India's role in WWII, the tragedies and heroism that came with it. Keep it up!!
Thank you, that a perfect review.