I think part of it is always finding something new to discover that you don't know. The search for knowledge never ends if you realize that there is a world full of things that you don't know yet!😁
@@LoSTRaMaiR How is €1.1 million meaningless? Honestly? And how is the nobel prize not the ultimate gesture of being scientifically dedicated with great results? And how is that meaningless? Tell me?
It's amazing that we're now rediscovering the fact that wild animals have emotions, thoughts and personalities, a fact that was clear to ancient people who interacted with them on a daily basis.
Yes many indigenous peoples the world over who interacted with nature much more deeply than we do today, knew about these sort of things. However much of their knowledge was far removed from any sort of formal account. Having said that, science today has a bad habit of being immotive to new data.
Daniel Djadan You can thank the thousands of years of Semitic mythology indoctrination that tells us animals were created FOR us and that we are at the image of God (whatever that is).
Err, "ancient people" is a bit generic. Ancient people were generally more cruel to animals because they had to a) survive or b) didn't have a clear understanding or empathy for the animal. Remember, ancient people are also the same people (pagans is usually the connotation) who mass sacrificed horses and other life stock to "gods" for boons.
Because we're peerless in our ability to create ideas at will and then make them reality. We are actually masters of our own lives. Like little gods, almost as if we are made in god's likeness or something.
There’s a number of things that separates us from animals. One example is our ability to philosophize or to contemplate the meaning / purpose of life. The very fact humans have this ability and to understand the concept of “God” or of a higher being is proof of our spiritual capacity, which animals simply don’t have.
BokuNoFateXero well for one they act purely on reflex and have amazing brains for calculating distance and time. On top of that they have a visible third eye.
I saw a video on line about a diver that became friends with a small octopus. One day the octopus pulled this diver's hand to this log. He held her fingers on the log. Then the diver pushed on the log a bit to where it rolled over a bit. The octopus quickly let go of her fingers swam underneath the log and pulled off some clam like creatures to eat. I was blown away by it. This octopus knew he couldn't get to the food, remembered his friend that visits, assumed his big friend was strong enough to hold up the log, and and was able to communicate that he needed her help to move the log. So, he either thought up his plan ahead of her showing up or quickly came up with that plan once he saw here again.
@@bring-out I don't think a lot of people really understand how much intelligence is involved with a seemingly simple act. It involves figuring out how to get the food item, planning how to do it, planning how to communicate to another species what he needs his friend to do, as well as conceptualizing on some level the properties of weight, force, and strength i.e., my big friend is probably strong enough to move this thing.
@Naegleria Fowleri an ant is not intelligent. Ants as a collective appear intelligent, but each individual any is basically genetically coded to follow a few simple rules. However, when thousands, hundreds of thousands, or millions of individual ants are governed by the same set of rules, it appears like intelligence is involved. However, an individual octopus problem having an idea to solve a problem via a method extremely uncommon to the species is a higher level of intelligence. Also, we humans still don't even know where consciousness comes from. We don't know how electrochemical signals between neurons in our brain turn into consciousness. So, assuming other animals don't have a thing that we don't understand is pretty stupid. Ants behavior is basically governed by if-this-then-that. For instance, if an ant comes to a gap, it can't cross it stops and reaches out as far as it can. The next ant that comes along does the same thing until they create a bridge. Then, the rule they follow is to hold on until no more ants are walking over them. There's no "if food under log ask human to hold up log" rules that an octopus follows without having a thought process of some kind.
It’s so refreshing to see such an intelligent person saying “I don’t know completely”, to watch someone embrace uncertainty and not state everything they believe as fact. The world would be a far better place if people presented their ideas like this more often
I think this is a problem with popular science, or 'science communication.' Scientists who want to engage with the general public think they have to keep things simple, and so they drive ideas home rather than admit when that there are opposing theories.
My old grandad was working class Londoner, a cockney. But, he was bright as a shining button, and I’d spend hours listening to his wisdom, and what he’d learned. This man is obviously much more educated than my grandad was, but the way he speaks about what he’s observed, is familiar. My grandad passed on nearly 26 years ago, and I swear, I miss him every single day! 🌹
I love when physicists get philosophical. Physics and Philosophy are beautifully intertwined and each continues to contribute to developments in the other.
Colt Johnson And I see people vote like idiots. I see people killing each other over bullshit, driving cars into trees, and sticking their dicks into electrical sockets. What’s your point?
Sean M I feel like thinking of it in degrees is wrong as well more like just totally different ways, some things like language sure it’s to a different degree but when we compare animals to a 3 old in intelligence It doesn’t sit well with me, the intelligence as a whole is specialized in different areas, animals are masters in certain areas pertaining to their survival just as we are, I think we can be fairly certain animals are just as conscious as us but in a different way so to speak. It’s just that same old wisdom but on a grand evolutionary scale that whatever you spend time doing means you spending time doing that instead of something else. You can’t be an expert at everything.
Chase Jordan Actually dogs can be racist although they may not know why. I once read a book about how slave masters kept their slaves in check and one of the methods was training dogs to hate black skin tones.
Makes you think what it would be like to be a human with no language. All of my thoughts, inner or outer, are in english. Would we even be able to comprehend complicated abstract ideas without the words we have?
We know those things from eachother because we have physical behavior and other characteristics that show someone is any of those emotional mindstates. Dogs have the same facial characteristics which is why we connect to them so much. Cats also have these facial characteristics but they are different from humans and dogs which is why we have a much harder time understanding them. And the list goes on
Such an INTERESTING video as always. Joe, I'm always amazed at your breadth of knowledge and intelligence. You can talk to anyone about anything and you still give important instites. Well done and cheers from Australia mate.
As far as animals go, humans and octopi are very distantly related. Octopi are far closer to snails than to apes such as ourselves. The fact that they display a high-degree of deliberative conscious thought suggests that consciousness is a general phenomenon can arise using completely alien brain architectures.
If you think about a mathematician, this guy pops up in your head. Voice, mannerisms style everything. He's probably the blueprint for all old intelligent guys
Slightly off topic here, but have you ever wondered about the craziness of being a conscious human being. Without getting too deep into thinking about existence or reincarnation, just the fact that we are lucky enough to have an understanding and the ability to study ourselves, an animal with a profound degree of self awareness
I wonder how rare that is in the universe. We are only getting smarter because we cab communicate with eachother easily with our throats and tongue and lips. How many intelligent lifeforms not just on earth but in the entire universe can do that?
Al the time man, I always wonder how crazy it is we are aware of our own consciousness and existence, and if there is other life across the universe, do they have the same capacity of conciseness as us or do they just have the same consciousness as a horse or a bird for instance
My girlfriend has 2 badgies (small birds. Less interactive that parrots). And they act different when we have sex. They get quiet. They're never quiet otherwise.
dogs are one of the things that really makes me think if animals are conscious. because out of all the animals out there, dogs seems to understand us on a different level.
The animal we literally created with the sole purpose of being able to understand us and coexist with us understands and coexists best with us... lol no shit
This is absolutely amazing because Jordan Peterson describes consciousness as something like "awareness of the future and the past in the present". The dogs hunting methods show they can plan ahead, i.e. they are ware of the existence of a future, not just thinking in the moment. And the elephants visiting bones of their dead shows an awareness of the past in the present. Those aren't just bones, they're the bones of someone they used to know. Animal Sentience, for me anyway, raises massive ethical questions about factory animal farming.
YouMake MeReal maybe it’s too advanced for a dumbass like you to realize 😂. When idiots think they are smart this conversation might be well above your 85 IQ level. You probably don’t even know what that means
You mean conciouness? I feel the same yet science does not agree.. When the mirror test has been performed with dogs, unlike elephants they unfortunately fail..
Matt Forrest no maybe I used the wrong word not that they know they are a dog but that they are aware. Like some dogs are smart. They know when they’re in trouble, when somethings wrong etc different emotions and just kinda smart. Not in the same way as a human. No animal is like a human just that they are aware of certain things
Matt Forrest that is a limited understanding of the issue. That is true, dogs aren’t self aware in terms of sight (being able to recognise what they look like, as an individual). But, there is speculation that dogs might be self aware, in respect to what they smell like. We simply cannot use the human experience and apply it to all other animals.
Anyone who’s had a dog knows they are very conscious & as much have a soul as humans do. With other animals, it’s probably that we don’t spend enough time around them (like we do with dogs) to realise they too are very conscious. We also tend to define something that’s not like us as unintelligent or not having a soul, which is more a reflection of human small mindedness than anything else.
Dogs don't even have brains and can't feel pain. God put animals on earth for humans to use however they like. Respecting animals is dumb. They are objects like a plant or a rock
@@googleuser3163 that's a morbid and dangerous way of looking at things. I don't think dogs have a soul. I don't think humans have a soul either. But animals clearly have pain receptors, they mourn, they love, they laugh, they cry. Humans are more complex, but there's nothing we have that animals dont to some degree
@@nawman2033 OMG that made my day. I literally LOLed at your comment. You're so right. I remember as I was writing it I felt so profound... then like an hour later on the bog I wanted to read my comment again to mentally masturbate and check out if I had any likes when I saw the blunder... Oh well... A for effort :)
It's so obvious ! People try to make it mean something else but it still just means, aware of ones self . They try to say it's a deeper awareness , reflection and contemplation of ones self . Well that definition excludes about 90% of humans .We need to stop treating animals like they aren't conscious, can't feel pain or have emotions when it is so obvious that they do . After seeing what I was paying for in factory farms , I stopped eating them three years ago . It turns out that there are tons of other delicious things to eat and I feel healthier than ever, to boot. Lets end the animal holocaust , go vegan .
I had an amazing experience in Serengetti, i felt the most intense soul connection when we met a family of wild african elephants, while lookimg into their eyes
@dumb genius I believe its mostly religious indoctrination that makes them not see it. I've heard some religious people claim non-human animals dont have souls nor free will, completely delusional people.
@@victormd1100 people who don’t think dogs and cats have souls shouldn’t be allowed to own them. Once you have one, it’s so obvious that they’re just as (if not more) alive than us. We’re smarter, of course, but they’re just little balls of life.
@@radtrashmcradical8202 Honestly you dont have to limit yourself to house pets. Pigs, cows, rats, birds, fish,... they all got souls as well, yet i've seen plenty of people say either they dont or they have but they're inferior to us therefore wont go to heaven. I've even seen people claiming they got souls but we're so superior to them that any person has the right to buy an animal just to torture it... sick sick people.
@@victormd1100 I mean, yes to all of those but probably fish. I don't know if I literally mean "souls", I'm not very religious. But they have life and character and feelings. Fish are pretty much little robots. Regardless, torture is wrong and we should treat all life with due respect because life is something worth respecting. I went with household pets because they act very differently from non-domesticated animals. Of course a feral pig feels things, but its not exactly gonna cuddle with you or feel much love. Its harder for people to understand/see that they've got soul. But I agree with you 100%
@@radtrashmcradical8202 Sure, i have noticed that most people i've met say call souls what scientists would call consciousness, so i usually say souls first as most people will understand it. Yep, mistreat and torture are horrible to sentient beings and, unfortunatelly happen a lot, both individually and in companies, i truly hope this generation and the next ones are able to lessen the harm those animals suffer. Just have to disagree with you on fish, i believe fish are conscious as well, but i have no proof so idk. I've just read somewhere they have pain receptors around their mouth, so they ( if have consciousness ) must feel a huge amount of pain when their body weight is pulling down on their mouth when they're captured.
@@anameyoucantremember Im so happy I found this video today. I thought I was the only one who saw consciousness as a spectrum, where some creatures are simply more conscious than others
@@sabiotiopablo5787 it's by far the most logical explanation. Our intelligence isn't something that evolved overnight, the theory that animals of lesser intelligence than dolphins or apes, are just automatons of instinct has never sat right with me.
@@KrikZ32 But that generates another question though, is consciousness just how smart we are? Or just awareness of our own existence? What would it take to make an AI conscious?
Im gonna break your human bubble here but.. they do. Millions maybe even billions or trillions of other civilizations like us have and will exist in the universe. we are meaningless monkeys and most of everything we think we know about the universe or the past is wrong. the universe is so much more complex than any of us apes will understand. But humans will feel depressed or sad knowing that their life truly has no meaning so we come up with all these explenations like god and so on.
Xagon I have seen apes they mostly throw their own shit or do some crazy shit and some people did not make up dogs we were told about it by something with a way better intelligence than us
@@5gasten so why are we nothing like apes then? Our bones and muscles are weaker and fur coat is basically non existent and there are some other far more important differences I'm sure you no all about that makes us not apes. Apes are apes. Doesn't mean our lives mean jack, but where certainly not apes
That's so cool about the elephants passing around the bones from the sister of the leader elephant in their traveling group. I've always thought that other animals have conciseness and a level of thought and understanding comparable to us, just different. Love these examples of this idea being displayed.
Absolutely animals have a conscious and feelings. I see it in my dogs every day. When I come home how excited they are to see me. How excited they get on walks. When I lay down they like to make sure I’m okay. Just to name a few.
Have you ever actually seen Dawkins in anything? He's like the most polite person ever. Just because lots of people disagree with him, they assume he must be rude and horrible. Hate him for his views all you want, but see him in anything and he's as pleasant as can be.
He would very much like to record the podcast on a near dying Lake or forest just to send a message and information over the issue to take it seriously and that's why I like him the most!
That story about the documentary with the elephants visiting the carcass of another is from "Echo the elephant". An amazing documentary...shows what a incredible animal elephants are
Being a meat-eater, this is the very reason that I respect vegetarian arguments as ethically superior despite the possibility that it *may* be less advantageous to us.
Yes OF COURSE they are. They fear death don't they? They mourn others deaths don't they? It's simply the LEVEL of intelligence that's different. The very fact they can be taught sympathy for OTHER SPECIES by us shows they are conscious of other creatures emotions if not suffering.
and how do you think they are taught anything? by giving them treats... they dont give a fuck about anything but doing what they need to do to get the treats...
People keep talking about intelligence; that's not the same thing as consciousness though. It could be purely mechanical (which seems absurd) ... but consciousness means the feeling of inner experience. Which is still unexplainable.
I've had a dream of being an animal before, I was a deer running from a hunter in a forest at night. There were no thoughts like we know them. Senses on overload. Emotions leading the way. I was terrified like I'd never been as a human. It was a much cleaner feeling of existence. I can remember the feeling of the stamina that I had in comparison to my human body. The speed I was running and not getting tired. What is very interesting to me upon looking back to this dream is the shapes the hunter's shadow made against the trees, and bushes, against the moonlight. I did not recognise the shape as anything. My deer brain didn't know what it was. When I woke up I was like that was a dude with a gun, as I remembered the shapes of the shadows. But the deer brain didn't know. So every glimpse I got of it was horrifying to me. The way it crept over bushes and stretched up trees. Like something out of a horror movie. It was definitely a more bare bones, less complex version of our consciousness, but in ways it was far more pure and pronounced because of it. We think we are so much better but in lots of ways we are dull and dumb compared to them. In many ways they are far superior at living on this planet.
Of course...they feel love, anger, fear, happiness, sadness, anxiety, etc... And a good majority of them are much much much smarter and even talented then us humans... Elephants that can paint pictures from memory or from dreams...
I saw an elephant one similar to this story, but it was the mother who was playing with the long dead baby's bones. She stopped to move them around each year.
Wtf, when are people going to realize we are just animals. We are all from the same. If you can see that a creature can suffer, and can experience fear, then what makes you think they aren't conscious? Who are we to say a cicada isn't conscious? Eyes to see and sensory to feel, yes animals might be simpler than we are but I fully believe every animal is conscious. My dog communicates to me in more ways than the majority of people do towards me, and I know she experiences her own world. We're all just living things interacting with each other, humans just happen to be at the top for now.
Sir Roger looks absolutley fantastic for his age. He's 87. Was born in 1931. We should all be so lucky to be so salient and spry at that age.
He's 87? That's incredible. I thought he was 70-ish
Weird to think He was 14 when ww2 ended, damn
Damn, you could convince me he was in his mid to late 60's
@@thefluffyneko4450 lol sthu
@@PM_____ why do you have to be an absolute twat about me trying to complememt someone? Like jesus fucking christ.
Joe: "that's heavy"
SRP: "indeed"
I like this interaction
The new Back to the Future series with Marty all growed up haha
The Ultimate Rage grown* (;
@@WishMount It's a reference to Rugrats but nice try tho. 😏😎✌🏿
Joe: “Holy shit! No fuckin’ waaayy”
SRP: “mmm, Yes. ....Quite.”
Joe: .....”blows my goddamn mind, man!”
SRP: “Indubidably”
5:35
All of a sudden, getting old doesn't look so bad. Look at this man, all curious and excited with the world.
Getting old does look bad. Especially on him. Smart tho
I am pretty sure it is because he is having fun that he is living longer.
territorial piss many philosophers talk of the beauty in old age, life is what you make it.
I think part of it is always finding something new to discover that you don't know. The search for knowledge never ends if you realize that there is a world full of things that you don't know yet!😁
@Sheldon Julius
important too is the health of one's cardiovascular system. The brain needs a healthy heart and blood vessels.
This man recieved a nobel prize today. He deserved it.
@@LoSTRaMaiR How is €1.1 million meaningless? Honestly? And how is the nobel prize not the ultimate gesture of being scientifically dedicated with great results? And how is that meaningless? Tell me?
Both are correct. It's meaningless, because, nothing matters. Your ego says it matters, but your ego doesn't exist. There is no you.
@@Unholyspirit if nothing matters, everything matters.
@@LoSTRaMaiR can you send me info about it? Who recieved it? And why?
@@LoSTRaMaiR yea, who's this?
More guests like this. I'm sick to death of toxic American politics.
and Bert , he has the IQ of a lab rat
Agreed
Canadian politics is equally bad...European politics is worse...
America is just more open, and honest about its political issues...And puts an entertainment spin on it
Then help do away with the republican party and get this country on the right track :)
He looks like how he speaks
Lord Vader accurate and underrated comment, my lord.
Jackson Putnam I live for comments like these. Indeed you are powerful.
He speaks just like he looks
@@Dankdalorde Can you beat Lord Frieza in 1 on 1 combat sir?
MaCeo Millions “All I am surrounded by is fear, and dead men.”
It's amazing that we're now rediscovering the fact that wild animals have emotions, thoughts and personalities, a fact that was clear to ancient people who interacted with them on a daily basis.
Yes many indigenous peoples the world over who interacted with nature much more deeply than we do today, knew about these sort of things. However much of their knowledge was far removed from any sort of formal account. Having said that, science today has a bad habit of being immotive to new data.
Religious indoctrination has told us for 1000s of years we are the pinacle of "creation" , the favorite of a god and much better then mere animals.
why do you think we are rediscovering it? its a weird statement and begs the question what did you mean
Daniel Djadan You can thank the thousands of years of Semitic mythology indoctrination that tells us animals were created FOR us and that we are at the image of God (whatever that is).
Err, "ancient people" is a bit generic. Ancient people were generally more cruel to animals because they had to a) survive or b) didn't have a clear understanding or empathy for the animal. Remember, ancient people are also the same people (pagans is usually the connotation) who mass sacrificed horses and other life stock to "gods" for boons.
Why does it seem like everyone has forgotten that we ourselves are animals.
That’s actually very true
Because we're peerless in our ability to create ideas at will and then make them reality.
We are actually masters of our own lives. Like little gods, almost as if we are made in god's likeness or something.
There’s a number of things that separates us from animals. One example is our ability to philosophize or to contemplate the meaning / purpose of life. The very fact humans have this ability and to understand the concept of “God” or of a higher being is proof of our spiritual capacity, which animals simply don’t have.
We are a higher order. No other animals philosophize about the nature of our existence, let alone their own.
@@kiliabgonzalez9977 your thoughts are thery because you don't KNOW this about the other animals on Earth. You have an assumption that's all
Imagine Brendan Schaub doing this podcast. "Foresure octopusses have more legs than peoples, and live in the wet place."
Wow that genuinely made me laugh out loud
Whahhahahahahahhahaha
Jo Po i dont get it whos brendan
@@JEMA333 google his name next to Joe Rogan
that was the best youtube comment I have read in a while !
Animal intelligence has been underestimated across the board. Especially reptiles.
Rhyds86 Domesticated animals are dumb af tho
BokuNoFateXero well for one they act purely on reflex and have amazing brains for calculating distance and time. On top of that they have a visible third eye.
@@Blue-gl7hw Don't talk about minorities like that!
@@LxGWolverine they have a visible third eye?
Eric Alonzo alligators don't have 3 eyes
Joes best guest are the least anticipated ones
Because we as a society have lifted the wrong people onto pedestals
Overthinking u need to look into it quit trying to talk like jre
RadFingerz please delete your reply lol
Elon Musk and Alex Jones were definitely a couple of the best guests
I'd say the three exceptions were Alex Jones, Elon musk and tyson fury
Joe on a date:
- "So how much have you studdied octopi?"
Date: "I've seen enough hentai to know where this is going"
Do you know what I can do to you with 8 tentacles baby...ya imagine that
*NANI DA?!*
What up steph nuggs
Who's gonna tell him octopi is wrong
What a cool old man 10/10
He ain’t dead yet so we don’t know if he a kiddy type of old dude or if he cool
No he’s white
Wow actual spoken knowledge carries a big stock these days lol
@John Smith I would bang hahah
Disliked for wholesomeness
I’m going to tell my kids one day that there was a 50 yr old podcaster who I loved to watch in my early 20’s .
Your kids are gonna look at you and say "did we ask?"
Ok
I watched him since I was 14, jeez I feel old
@@billbosagginz740 how old r u now
@@billbosagginz740 how old r u now
I saw a video on line about a diver that became friends with a small octopus. One day the octopus pulled this diver's hand to this log. He held her fingers on the log. Then the diver pushed on the log a bit to where it rolled over a bit. The octopus quickly let go of her fingers swam underneath the log and pulled off some clam like creatures to eat. I was blown away by it. This octopus knew he couldn't get to the food, remembered his friend that visits, assumed his big friend was strong enough to hold up the log, and and was able to communicate that he needed her help to move the log. So, he either thought up his plan ahead of her showing up or quickly came up with that plan once he saw here again.
That’s so cool thanks for sharing that
@@bring-out I don't think a lot of people really understand how much intelligence is involved with a seemingly simple act. It involves figuring out how to get the food item, planning how to do it, planning how to communicate to another species what he needs his friend to do, as well as conceptualizing on some level the properties of weight, force, and strength i.e., my big friend is probably strong enough to move this thing.
Doesnt mean it has consciousness like humans, has intelligence 😂 even insects have intelligence ants for example are highly intelligent
❤️
@Naegleria Fowleri an ant is not intelligent. Ants as a collective appear intelligent, but each individual any is basically genetically coded to follow a few simple rules. However, when thousands, hundreds of thousands, or millions of individual ants are governed by the same set of rules, it appears like intelligence is involved. However, an individual octopus problem having an idea to solve a problem via a method extremely uncommon to the species is a higher level of intelligence. Also, we humans still don't even know where consciousness comes from. We don't know how electrochemical signals between neurons in our brain turn into consciousness. So, assuming other animals don't have a thing that we don't understand is pretty stupid. Ants behavior is basically governed by if-this-then-that. For instance, if an ant comes to a gap, it can't cross it stops and reaches out as far as it can. The next ant that comes along does the same thing until they create a bridge. Then, the rule they follow is to hold on until no more ants are walking over them. There's no "if food under log ask human to hold up log" rules that an octopus follows without having a thought process of some kind.
So incredible to see Professor Penrose win the Nobel Prize.
One of the greatest minds.
Well deserved. People like Roger push us forward, away from all the crass distractions of primitive trappings.
Here here! *Starts singing "For He's A Jolly Good Fellow"*
It’s so refreshing to see such an intelligent person saying “I don’t know completely”, to watch someone embrace uncertainty and not state everything they believe as fact. The world would be a far better place if people presented their ideas like this more often
I’ve been thinking the same thing! Very true
I think this is a problem with popular science, or 'science communication.' Scientists who want to engage with the general public think they have to keep things simple, and so they drive ideas home rather than admit when that there are opposing theories.
I love when Joe has guests that teach him and his audience something, instead of just echo chamber type conversations that sometimes happen on here.
Elephants are very intelligent, they’ve even figured out how to use the order panels at McDonalds
Good 1😂😂
Fekin gold
Lol
Metallisika fat people
Metallisika bet you’re fun at parties😂
There is a city in Brazil where Amazon river dolphins show up at a city park every day to play with the human kids. It's amazing.
Watch Blue Planet 2 on Netflix and prepare to have your mind blown by animal intelligence.
Where can one watch this.
@@Chiefthepup on Netflix.
@@interlake2043 where
Where can I watch it?
Planet 2 or is it called Planet earth 2?
Joe"I've been studying them for a few years now" Rogan
More like skimmed articles every now and then on the subject for a few years
@@maskedmerker1 I read this as soon as he said it lmao
With his tongue
He said: i’ve been paying attention to them for a few years now. Big difference.
@@foxontherun4754 I always see people distorting quotes from him to make these jokes and getting a lot of likes, I can never understand it
My old grandad was working class Londoner, a cockney. But, he was bright as a shining button, and I’d spend hours listening to his wisdom, and what he’d learned. This man is obviously much more educated than my grandad was, but the way he speaks about what he’s observed, is familiar. My grandad passed on nearly 26 years ago, and I swear, I miss him every single day! 🌹
I love when physicists get philosophical. Physics and Philosophy are beautifully intertwined and each continues to contribute to developments in the other.
Meanwhile I just saw the neighbors dog eat his turd..
Colt Johnson And I see people vote like idiots. I see people killing each other over bullshit, driving cars into trees, and sticking their dicks into electrical sockets. What’s your point?
Went on PornHub and watched a chick eat her own shit...
@@frontcrevis2 you need professional help
Dogs are intelligent -> dog eats turd -> eating turds is smart -> you should eat turds
I've seen a human make sculptures out of turds. Some humans piss & shit on each other for kinks.
I personally think it is pretty obvious that every living creature is conscious but to a different degree than humans.
Sean M I feel like thinking of it in degrees is wrong as well more like just totally different ways, some things like language sure it’s to a different degree but when we compare animals to a 3 old in intelligence It doesn’t sit well with me, the intelligence as a whole is specialized in different areas, animals are masters in certain areas pertaining to their survival just as we are, I think we can be fairly certain animals are just as conscious as us but in a different way so to speak. It’s just that same old wisdom but on a grand evolutionary scale that whatever you spend time doing means you spending time doing that instead of something else. You can’t be an expert at everything.
I agree, but I think consciousness ends somewhere before you get down to bacteria, viruses and what not.
We always knew when certain birds came ashore that a hurricane was coming.
Exactly
Chase Jordan Actually dogs can be racist although they may not know why. I once read a book about how slave masters kept their slaves in check and one of the methods was training dogs to hate black skin tones.
Animals experience pain happiness fear depression I think it the same stream of consciousness they just can't express in the detail of a human being
Well put
Makes you think what it would be like to be a human with no language. All of my thoughts, inner or outer, are in english. Would we even be able to comprehend complicated abstract ideas without the words we have?
@@KrikZ32 I guess we cant have inner thoughts without words. We would only view the world as it is.
We know those things from eachother because we have physical behavior and other characteristics that show someone is any of those emotional mindstates.
Dogs have the same facial characteristics which is why we connect to them so much.
Cats also have these facial characteristics but they are different from humans and dogs which is why we have a much harder time understanding them.
And the list goes on
Such an INTERESTING video as always. Joe, I'm always amazed at your breadth of knowledge and intelligence. You can talk to anyone about anything and you still give important instites. Well done and cheers from Australia mate.
Outstanding interview. I've always been a fan of Rogan. His podcasts are more interesting and/ or entertaining than 90% of stuff on television.
Thanks to youtube , man. I'm 41 years old , I said that when I watched videos like this. Tv was so limited.
As far as animals go, humans and octopi are very distantly related. Octopi are far closer to snails than to apes such as ourselves. The fact that they display a high-degree of deliberative conscious thought suggests that consciousness is a general phenomenon can arise using completely alien brain architectures.
You tried
Not at all.
Stop being so full of yourself. You're cringe
@Globglogabgolab 2.0 "received transmission" this is very much it
-sCiEnTiSt
If you think about a mathematician, this guy pops up in your head. Voice, mannerisms style everything. He's probably the blueprint for all old intelligent guys
Slightly off topic here, but have you ever wondered about the craziness of being a conscious human being. Without getting too deep into thinking about existence or reincarnation, just the fact that we are lucky enough to have an understanding and the ability to study ourselves, an animal with a profound degree of self awareness
I wonder how rare that is in the universe. We are only getting smarter because we cab communicate with eachother easily with our throats and tongue and lips. How many intelligent lifeforms not just on earth but in the entire universe can do that?
Al the time man, I always wonder how crazy it is we are aware of our own consciousness and existence, and if there is other life across the universe, do they have the same capacity of conciseness as us or do they just have the same consciousness as a horse or a bird for instance
Joe "hey doc let me explain to you how wolves work" Rogan
konanoobiemaster Joe: if u look at a wolf he knows your pissed even if you dont say it
Hehehe
konanoobiemaster You nailed it..
Thanks for the laugh!
Wtf
I was doing this broad from behind and her dog started growling at me from the corner of the room. That dude was very self aware of what I was doing.
Must of been going hard he probably thought you were hurting her
nothing like asserting your dominance during an occular pat-down
Fried in oil. Boiled in water
@@anthonyolvera5916 I had a good rhythm going so yeah I think he thought I was roughing his mom up. It made me slow down real quick. 😂
My girlfriend has 2 badgies (small birds. Less interactive that parrots). And they act different when we have sex. They get quiet. They're never quiet otherwise.
Joe is such a great interviewer. He asks really good questions of his guests, getting to the heart of the matter.
dogs are one of the things that really makes me think if animals are conscious.
because out of all the animals out there, dogs seems to understand us on a different level.
The animal we literally created with the sole purpose of being able to understand us and coexist with us understands and coexists best with us... lol no shit
Dana Chapin dogs have been so selectively bred for so long now we might as well have created them.
I mean dogs are smart, but chickens are smarter.
@@onebilliontacos3405 Crows are smarter
Sir Roger Penrose! OMG! The man's a living legend!
.....right.
I honestly didn't know he was still alive. He seems quite cognitively healthy for a man who must be over ninety.
@Mike Jones He's alive, doofus.
@Mike Jones you're quick.
@@hilbertsinn6886 He's 87
Sir Penrose is someone to try to emulate. He is very intelligent and well posed.
This is absolutely amazing because Jordan Peterson describes consciousness as something like "awareness of the future and the past in the present".
The dogs hunting methods show they can plan ahead, i.e. they are ware of the existence of a future, not just thinking in the moment. And the elephants visiting bones of their dead shows an awareness of the past in the present. Those aren't just bones, they're the bones of someone they used to know.
Animal Sentience, for me anyway, raises massive ethical questions about factory animal farming.
When I see my dog I definitely believe that they’re conscious
YouMake MeReal maybe it’s too advanced for a dumbass like you to realize 😂. When idiots think they are smart this conversation might be well above your 85 IQ level. You probably don’t even know what that means
@YouMake MeReal shut up bitch
You mean conciouness? I feel the same yet science does not agree.. When the mirror test has been performed with dogs, unlike elephants they unfortunately fail..
Matt Forrest no maybe I used the wrong word not that they know they are a dog but that they are aware. Like some dogs are smart. They know when they’re in trouble, when somethings wrong etc different emotions and just kinda smart. Not in the same way as a human. No animal is like a human just that they are aware of certain things
Matt Forrest that is a limited understanding of the issue. That is true, dogs aren’t self aware in terms of sight (being able to recognise what they look like, as an individual). But, there is speculation that dogs might be self aware, in respect to what they smell like. We simply cannot use the human experience and apply it to all other animals.
Tony Ferguson the type of guy to try and ankle pick an octopus
Joe: "That's heavy!!!", Sir Roger: "Indeed!"
Anyone who’s had a dog knows they are very conscious & as much have a soul as humans do. With other animals, it’s probably that we don’t spend enough time around them (like we do with dogs) to realise they too are very conscious. We also tend to define something that’s not like us as unintelligent or not having a soul, which is more a reflection of human small mindedness than anything else.
Dogs don't even have brains and can't feel pain. God put animals on earth for humans to use however they like. Respecting animals is dumb. They are objects like a plant or a rock
@@googleuser3163 that's a morbid and dangerous way of looking at things. I don't think dogs have a soul. I don't think humans have a soul either. But animals clearly have pain receptors, they mourn, they love, they laugh, they cry. Humans are more complex, but there's nothing we have that animals dont to some degree
@@jacksonraidal9917 wrong
Some commenters are just sad lil cunts tryin to piss ppl off
@@jacksonraidal9917 he’s just a troll probably struggling with something in his life. Pay no notice to him
It’s so cool interviewing old scientists. They have so much to learn from.
Deep down we know they are... but that's awfully inconvenient for us. So no they are don't.
So true
You were doing so well till the end ❤
@@nawman2033 OMG that made my day. I literally LOLed at your comment. You're so right. I remember as I was writing it I felt so profound... then like an hour later on the bog I wanted to read my comment again to mentally masturbate and check out if I had any likes when I saw the blunder... Oh well... A for effort :)
@@htedumbprogrammer8658 Yep the idea was still conveyed poetically even with the mistake 😁 glad to bring ya some laughs
It's so obvious ! People try to make it mean something else but it still just means, aware of ones self . They try to say it's a deeper awareness , reflection and contemplation of ones self . Well that definition excludes about 90% of humans .We need to stop treating animals like they aren't conscious, can't feel pain or have emotions when it is so obvious that they do . After seeing what I was paying for in factory farms , I stopped eating them three years ago . It turns out that there are tons of other delicious things to eat and I feel healthier than ever, to boot.
Lets end the animal holocaust , go vegan .
I once spoke to a baboon. I may have been on a controlled substance, but we had a real conversation at the zoo ...
Define controlled
Not funny sorry
i want to be on a controlled substance 😳
...said Sir Roger Penrose when he got back to the UK..
I had an amazing experience in Serengetti, i felt the most intense soul connection when we met a family of wild african elephants, while lookimg into their eyes
More guests like this please. We need this stuff more than ever after all the politics, influencers and hate.
Ok i get it.... but where does Kevin lee fit in all of this
He cleans Yaquinta's shoes.
The UFC fighter? Well beneath Al.
Hes p4p best fighter ever at 165
Daniel Vazquez he fits in the prelims from whence he crawled
He makes animals look dumb
well it seems to me that perhaps a majority of humans aren't exactly conscious...
@dumb genius I believe its mostly religious indoctrination that makes them not see it. I've heard some religious people claim non-human animals dont have souls nor free will, completely delusional people.
@@victormd1100 people who don’t think dogs and cats have souls shouldn’t be allowed to own them. Once you have one, it’s so obvious that they’re just as (if not more) alive than us. We’re smarter, of course, but they’re just little balls of life.
@@radtrashmcradical8202 Honestly you dont have to limit yourself to house pets. Pigs, cows, rats, birds, fish,... they all got souls as well, yet i've seen plenty of people say either they dont or they have but they're inferior to us therefore wont go to heaven. I've even seen people claiming they got souls but we're so superior to them that any person has the right to buy an animal just to torture it... sick sick people.
@@victormd1100 I mean, yes to all of those but probably fish. I don't know if I literally mean "souls", I'm not very religious. But they have life and character and feelings. Fish are pretty much little robots. Regardless, torture is wrong and we should treat all life with due respect because life is something worth respecting.
I went with household pets because they act very differently from non-domesticated animals. Of course a feral pig feels things, but its not exactly gonna cuddle with you or feel much love. Its harder for people to understand/see that they've got soul. But I agree with you 100%
@@radtrashmcradical8202 Sure, i have noticed that most people i've met say call souls what scientists would call consciousness, so i usually say souls first as most people will understand it. Yep, mistreat and torture are horrible to sentient beings and, unfortunatelly happen a lot, both individually and in companies, i truly hope this generation and the next ones are able to lessen the harm those animals suffer.
Just have to disagree with you on fish, i believe fish are conscious as well, but i have no proof so idk. I've just read somewhere they have pain receptors around their mouth, so they ( if have consciousness ) must feel a huge amount of pain when their body weight is pulling down on their mouth when they're captured.
"That's heavy bro"
"Hmmm Indeed"
I love when I have a certain thought and find out JR has a clip about it.
"There's no clean dividing line, the differences are sort of continuous."
Holy crap! You actually got Penrose to be on your podcast?!
Absolute madlad!
"it's not like a baseball flying in the air, spinning and such, it's something different" i love this analogy.
Anyone that has a dog knows they have some sort of consciousness
True. Anyone whose not self-absorbed in their own "superior" condition can easily see consciousness everywhere. And I don't mean it in a mystical way.
@@anameyoucantremember Im so happy I found this video today. I thought I was the only one who saw consciousness as a spectrum, where some creatures are simply more conscious than others
@@anameyoucantremember I did acid one time and realized that it IS everywhere in a mystical way. Lol
@@sabiotiopablo5787 it's by far the most logical explanation. Our intelligence isn't something that evolved overnight, the theory that animals of lesser intelligence than dolphins or apes, are just automatons of instinct has never sat right with me.
@@KrikZ32 But that generates another question though, is consciousness just how smart we are? Or just awareness of our own existence? What would it take to make an AI conscious?
I wonder if Aliens are having this same discussion about humans? 🤔
Damn those humans are some horny mutafakas.
Im gonna break your human bubble here but.. they do. Millions maybe even billions or trillions of other civilizations like us have and will exist in the universe. we are meaningless monkeys and most of everything we think we know about the universe or the past is wrong. the universe is so much more complex than any of us apes will understand.
But humans will feel depressed or sad knowing that their life truly has no meaning so we come up with all these explenations like god and so on.
Xagon I have seen apes they mostly throw their own shit or do some crazy shit and some people did not make up dogs we were told about it by something with a way better intelligence than us
@@5gasten what is ur proof
@@5gasten so why are we nothing like apes then? Our bones and muscles are weaker and fur coat is basically non existent and there are some other far more important differences I'm sure you no all about that makes us not apes. Apes are apes. Doesn't mean our lives mean jack, but where certainly not apes
Sir Roger Penrose sounds like a Game of Thrones character.
Wow 87 my grandma was 67 when she passed so young I hope to live a long prosperous life like this young man
That's so cool about the elephants passing around the bones from the sister of the leader elephant in their traveling group. I've always thought that other animals have conciseness and a level of thought and understanding comparable to us, just different. Love these examples of this idea being displayed.
Octopus: I’m finna walk on the ground 🤣🤣
This man is a pioneer, recently heard him speak of microtubules in understanding how consciousness can exist outside the organism
The annoyed octopus is
my spirit animal.
Such and interesting and intelligent man, love when Joe has guests that like this.
Did you notice how Sir Roger doesn't wear headphones and so doesn't Joe
Aleks Boikov vevo oh shit I didn’t even notice. Probs the first time I’ve seen joe’s ears
Maybe as Jamie wouldnt be pulling anything up as the man is on there to teach joe not to learn
Joe: That's heavy!
Sir Roger Penrose: Indeed.
5:37
Just that fact that the organic material that composes me allows me to experience other material in the external world is so cool to me
I've always been curious about this too.
Absolutely animals have a conscious and feelings. I see it in my dogs every day. When I come home how excited they are to see me. How excited they get on walks. When I lay down they like to make sure I’m okay. Just to name a few.
Bruh this guy is the polite Richard Dawkins
I don't why, but I laughed so hard at your comment.
Richard Dawkins was given a rough time and hence turned sour.
I'd be impolite if I was treated like Dawkins...
Have you ever actually seen Dawkins in anything? He's like the most polite person ever. Just because lots of people disagree with him, they assume he must be rude and horrible. Hate him for his views all you want, but see him in anything and he's as pleasant as can be.
@@kyleahmad me 2 bro. 😂😂
We need a part 2
somehow wonderful and heart breaking in the same time
tnx
Imagine David Attenborough on Joe Rogan 😍
He would very much like to record the podcast on a near dying Lake or forest just to send a message and information over the issue to take it seriously and that's why I like him the most!
octopus are probably amazed by how we walk n communicate with each other as well
I bet they're not
That story about the documentary with the elephants visiting the carcass of another is from "Echo the elephant". An amazing documentary...shows what a incredible animal elephants are
5:54
I know he says "fed up with this thing"
But I totally heard a word I was never allowed to say and my kids say all the time
Nice to see some JRE without toxic American politics being brought up.
what a sharp man, someone mentioned he's 87. wow
"Man that's heavy!"
"Indeed."
I love these two together
my "Other Minds" book arrived last week. Need to finish my current book, but looking forward to picking it up
Being a meat-eater, this is the very reason that I respect vegetarian arguments as ethically superior despite the possibility that it *may* be less advantageous to us.
The question is, why do we seperate from them and deem them justifiable to kill for our benefit?
@@harambe8372 because our ancestors did that 🤷🏾♂️
@@genekendrick679 would you say that because our ancestors did it, it is then justified?
@@harambe8372 I believe it's justified because it's healthy for us.
@@genekendrick679 is the health it provides unattainable without it? Is it essential?
Yes OF COURSE they are.
They fear death don't they?
They mourn others deaths don't they?
It's simply the LEVEL of intelligence that's different.
The very fact they can be taught sympathy for OTHER SPECIES by us shows they are conscious of other creatures emotions if not suffering.
and how do you think they are taught anything? by giving them treats... they dont give a fuck about anything but doing what they need to do to get the treats...
Thats basically what he said kid, have you seen the video.
i had 2 dogs when i was younger and one of them passed away so the other dog refused to eat and we had to put him down as well....
People keep talking about intelligence; that's not the same thing as consciousness though. It could be purely mechanical (which seems absurd) ... but consciousness means the feeling of inner experience. Which is still unexplainable.
@@Narrowcros I'm 46 so keep your attempt at belittling comments to yourself.....little man.
That’s my kind of Octopus 🐙. “U make me yank a lever to get food??.. screw u, have some ink B!tch” haha
A budgerigar I had was very happy every time it became aware that I was coming home, and started singing even before I came inside.
Sir Penrose ASMR
I've had a dream of being an animal before, I was a deer running from a hunter in a forest at night. There were no thoughts like we know them. Senses on overload. Emotions leading the way. I was terrified like I'd never been as a human. It was a much cleaner feeling of existence. I can remember the feeling of the stamina that I had in comparison to my human body. The speed I was running and not getting tired. What is very interesting to me upon looking back to this dream is the shapes the hunter's shadow made against the trees, and bushes, against the moonlight. I did not recognise the shape as anything. My deer brain didn't know what it was. When I woke up I was like that was a dude with a gun, as I remembered the shapes of the shadows. But the deer brain didn't know. So every glimpse I got of it was horrifying to me. The way it crept over bushes and stretched up trees. Like something out of a horror movie.
It was definitely a more bare bones, less complex version of our consciousness, but in ways it was far more pure and pronounced because of it. We think we are so much better but in lots of ways we are dull and dumb compared to them. In many ways they are far superior at living on this planet.
I wonder had you been chased out into a highway would you have frozen in oncoming headlights ? One only knows. Just a thought.
God bless Sir Roger Penrose he is awesome.
So humbling to hear this man talk.
I agree with Penrose 100%
Gordon Ramsay dressed up as this guy once
"That's heavy"
"Indeed"
This was awesome!!!
Joe"I Got a Friend of Mine" Rogan
@Koba Foreversorry dude I dont get what you just said 😂
Of course...they feel love, anger, fear, happiness, sadness, anxiety, etc...
And a good majority of them are much much much smarter and even talented then us humans...
Elephants that can paint pictures from memory or from dreams...
I saw an elephant one similar to this story, but it was the mother who was playing with the long dead baby's bones. She stopped to move them around each year.
Spam the play back 10sec thing in the very beginning as it’s playing
Wtf, when are people going to realize we are just animals. We are all from the same. If you can see that a creature can suffer, and can experience fear, then what makes you think they aren't conscious?
Who are we to say a cicada isn't conscious? Eyes to see and sensory to feel, yes animals might be simpler than we are but I fully believe every animal is conscious. My dog communicates to me in more ways than the majority of people do towards me, and I know she experiences her own world.
We're all just living things interacting with each other, humans just happen to be at the top for now.
"the strength of the pack is the wolf, the strength of the wolf is the pack"
Jungle Book
All is one and one is all
The pack will git the lone wolf, but that doesn't mean he ain't tougher ;)
Please do another Roger Penrose one :)
I could listen to this for hours