Young Griff & Daenerys Targaryen : The Key to King's Landing's Destruction?
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- Опубликовано: 4 июн 2024
- Content Of This Video:
00:00 The Sack Of King's Landing
02:21 The Missing Link In The Story's Climax
04:02 What Does "The Bells" Mean?
05:46 Jon Connington And The Fall Of The Targaryen Dynasty
07:07 Jon's Belief In The Power Of Brutality Vs. Its Actual Effectiveness
08:32 The First Battle Of The Bells
09:29 A Second Battle Of The Bells?
09:53 JonCon's Reversal Of Fortune
12:12 Conclusion 
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I was thinking this back when everyone was like "Dany is an angel who can do no wrong how dare the showrunners have her burn people" as if arriving in westeros to find a targaryan pretender (at least as far as dany is concerned) who has already captured everyones hearts and who the people prefer to her with her dragons and foreign hordes wouldnt cause her to be furious after a lifetime of waiting for that moment.
Yeah completely agreed. I assumed by the time the series ended that they basically fused Jon and Aegon's characters/split Aegon's storyline between Jon and Cersei, but Dany's self-image is soooo wrapped up in being the last Targaryen and the last dragon that it seems obvious that when she finds out she's not, she's going to not believe it and react very violently towards it. LOL and yeah, I get that people saw everything from Dany's POV when she was in Essos but JFC when she was there she was also setting people on fire after about 5 seconds of consideration because they looked at her sideways, it was entirely in-character for her to kill people because they pissed her off or because they just didn't want to be invaded.
@@HillsAliveYT
Yeah, I'm one of those who didn't see it. I drifted away around season 4 (I was watching on DVDs).
But, except for that moment when she got visibly turned on while her husband Khal Drogo was talking about raping women and killing babies...😮😲😮‼️
...otherwise I saw her as the Emancipator Messa.
There's almost nothing that a beautiful girl can't persuade people to believe. Myself most definitely included... 🤷♀️
@@judeannethecandorchannel2153 So true, I was hardcore enchanted Dany fan until the middle of of the series when my enthusiasm devolved to 'meh' and transformed into positive dislike whenever she'd go on one of her self aggrandizing rant.
I was like "bitch you ain't shit" she found a vibrant and prosperous civilization in Slaver's bay.
Yes they were slavers and that is bad and needed to be changed _in a gradual and rational manner bearing in mind the complexity of the economics involved_ but by the time she left Slaver's Bay was an economic and political clusterfuck.
The books did a better job of showing this but even in the show you had people begging to return to slavery which says nothing good about her ability as a ruler.
Now with such a shitty record to the Seven Kingdoms demanding everyone kowtow to her or else burn.
Both in the show and the books there was plenty of evidence for her evilness which was not so much a twist as a progression.
Looking back at the scene with Khal Drogo talking about smashing castles, slaughtering people and raping women you can see she was clearly turned on by this.
I don't know how we missed this on the first viewing.
Me too. I was a huge Dany fan too, but her idea that I'm destined to rule does hint that she may turn out to be very, very bad.
It's because of this channel I became less enthusiastic.
I HAAAAATE the thought of Dany burning King’s Landing for a number of reasons but I can see how George could get us there and I’ll be there for the ride. I think it will happen though. I think burning Kings Landing was foreshadowed in what the undying told Dany during her house of the undying trip. The 3 fires, 3 treasons, etc.
Yeah I think it has been foreshadowed pretty often and I don’t think that GRRM is going to subvert expectations by having his living nuclear bombs not going off. I think the buildup and reasoning behind it will obviously be much easier to see in the books though.
I think it'll be Cersei who burns kings landing... That's been fore shadowed too... As has Jaime killing a mad, fire loving despot he is duty bound to protect in order to be a "true knight," which is the logical conclusion of the valonquar plot
Oh... And yeah, Cersei will likely be married to fAegon (she'll have won over the church after Bobby Biceps kills Loras, which results in Margie getting executed, which leads to Mace taking his army/guard and going home...) for easy political meshing, with jonconn taking the hand position at fAegon's insistence. the combo of jonconn going nuts, Cersei going nuts, and them deciding to not make the same mistakes they have in the past will lead them to igniting the wild fire caches around the city.
It's possible Dany will be blamed, but I don't know... Why would she need to burn Kings Landing? It's more likely she'll burn Dragonstone/Storms End, and instead send in her Doth raki screamers and unsullied in kings landing.
I'm starting to buy into the theories that Young Griff is the real Targaryen and Dany is a Dragonseed.
Edit: But regardless of that being true or not, I think omitting Aegon from the show was the biggest mistake I do not understand why they did it, and Aegon gets too little love.
Yeah agreed, if the series wanted to make Dany's dark turn into this massive twist then I have no idea why they excluded Aegon from the show completely, I'd be shocked if Aegon wasn't a massive contributing factor if not THE contributing factor to Dany burning King's Landing. And I personally subscribe to the idea that both Aegon and Dany are trueborn Targaryens, but I do think it's hilarious that she's probably going to deny Aegon's legitimacy using excuses that everyone else could also apply to her (i.e., how the hell is everyone to know that she truly is a Targaryen given that there is no one even left alive who can officially confirm it). Plus I just kind of live for the idea that Rhaegar and Dany, two characters who were exceptionally self-obsessed and believed that they were the ultimate chosen ones, will have to deal with the fact that two of the "heads of the dragon" that they were so consumed with will outright reject the Targaryen legacy and Targaryen supremacy.
@@HillsAliveYT Narration-wise I do prefer Aegon as a Blackfyre. It is the ultimate “yeah, he has no claim, but he makes a good ruler so we don’t care” that I like about that. It’s one of the reasons why Dany could be driven (more) to madness, because since her birth she was fed the stories about the inherent right to rule based on the lineage. Then, suddenly it becomes irrelevant. I can totally imagine that some of the major houses would not trust Aegon’s legitimacy, but they would still believe that he’s the best they could hope for. I do like it, that the person best suited for a job, in reality has no claim and people are ready to ignore it based on his abilities and the perspective of stabilizing the realm - and then is ultimately defeated by the legitimate queen, who however appears to be completely out of her mind. This portrayal puts in question entirety of Westeros succession system, which I believe is very in line with George’s writing.
Yes yes yes yes yes yes yes I love this. If you really study the book Game of Thrones, you can see how there could have been a baby switch at Dragonstone. Targaryens were known to do this in the past to protect the spare (Viserys II). Aerys + Ashara Dayne, who was one of the ladies in the court. Ned snuggles her into Dragonstone when she is pregnant while he is returning to Winterfell with Jon. She leaves Daenerys with a lemon tree from Dorne as a reminder of her heritage and leaves with baby Aegon, Viserys III's baby brother, and disappears for the Rhoyne. I'm not sure that Aegon is Rhaegar's son, but I do think he's legit.
Interesting theory! While Young Griff can't prove he's really Aegon, Danny has no way of proving he isn't either - it's only whether people believe it that matters ("Power resides where people believe it resides..."). And "solving" the problem by burning KL doesn't work either (at least, not to remove Young Griff) because (in the absence of DNA testing!) you can call any heap of bones Aegon/Griff but nobody could say for sure whether they were. Just as Henry VII had to deal with Lambert Simnell and Perkin Warbeck, she'd probably face a succession of Pretenders claiming to be Aegon challenger to her Throne and dealing with them with "Fire and Blood" isn't going to endear her to the people.
Not to mention the fact that Westeros is a society that finds Ruling Queens unnatural and would prefer a King in charge.
Yes, I think ironically Dany is going to believe that she proves he's a fake (I think she's going to "test" Aegon with a dragon and when he's rejected she'll be convinced that he's a fraud), but I actually think she's going to be wrong (I think he quite likely is who he says he is, but he'll be "tested" with a dragon that is already under someone else's control and will therefore reject him). However, as you said, it's not going to make a difference, both because the people of Westeros will believe that Aegon is Aegon, and simply because people will want him to be king and not want her to be queen.
"Fire and blood" obviously isn't a winning strategy, and if Dany winds up coming to Westeros with an army and any collection of followers, it's absolutely going to cripple the already damaged infrastructure of Westeros. And unsurprisingly, Dany's lack of skill when it comes to handling these kinds of infrastructural issues will likely escalate the situation, therefore killing a city full of "a pretender's supporters" will kinda kill two birds with one stone in her mind. But obviously, doing something like that will just mean that the first person who can get close enough to Dany to assassinate her will do it for the good of the realm.
@@HillsAliveYT didn't george confirmed will be second dance of dragon? Through aegon V dany
@@fauzanabdulkahfi957 Well he has done about a million interviews in the past few decades so I can't say for sure, but I think that he has said there will be another dance without specifying who it's going to be between. And I think that most fans presume that means it'll be between Jon and Dany, but it could just as easily be between Dany and Young Griff.
@@HillsAliveYT I think even if YG is a Blackfyre, there's still a significant chance he could claim a dragon. After all, in black or in red, a dragon is a dragon.
Holy crap I just realized when you were describing the traits, values and beliefs of the Targaryen family reminds me of one of the infamous family in books/movies….the Malfoy family! Holy crap the Targaryens are the Malfoys of the GOT universe! 😂
LOL and they even look the same!
I can agree Book Dany is much darker and is headed down a dark path. But I have to disagree that she kills at the slightest provocation. She refuses to harm her little hostages, the boy who attacked her in Mereen, Xaro Xhoan Daxos who openly threatened her, and Brown Benn Plumm after he betrayed her.
Also Drogon her biggest dragon is about the size of Pteranodon I don't see her burning down any cities any time soon.
Well we can agree to disagree, it just seems obvious to me that Dany burning King's Landing is a Chekhov's gun that has to go off, and given that she literally burned KL in the show and GRRM didn't say hey by the way the twist that almost everyone hated isn't the real ending it seems likely that it's going to happen. And I don't think Dany kills or torments people on a whim literally every single time, but in instances like the 163 masters in Meereen she doesn't hesitate to kill them very brutally without really thinking about what's she's doing or investigating who is really guilty and who isn't, and that seems like a really bad sign going forward. But we'll see what happens in the next book, I could be totally wrong!
@@HillsAliveYT One thing you are totally wrong and i am sure about it is that we will see any more books in this series.
@@adonaimelles2317 I won't say that that's impossible, but I just don't see GRRM making the greatest crime and the climax of his story an accident. Plus, could you really call that an accident? I feel like if you start setting parts of a city on fire you can't really call other parts of that city catching on fire an accident.
@@HillsAliveYT I agree, it can't be an accident. No to mention that Varys would almost certainly inform young Griff about the wildfire below King's Landing, and it would be very logical for Young Griff to remove the wildfire, so it doesn't accidentally activate by Drogon's fire and kill so many innocent civilians.
@@constantinetranos2225 Yeah that's a good point as well, I mean even if he's not expecting Daenerys to attack, it's just basic common sense to remove a fuckton of hidden explosives from the city that you want to rule from.
Its a crime that you don’t have more subs
LOL thanks! I'm guessing that my 1 video every 6 weeks upload schedule might somehow be related.
I think Daenerys will become much much more ruthless, and embrace the words fire and blood (with Tyrion urging her ruthless decisions onward), but I would never go to say its because she's "mad". Tywin's pretty ruthless, but I wouldn't ever call him "mad". Aegon the Conqueror was ruthless but no one calls him "mad". I think Cersei was a replacement for Aegon in the show, and that Cersei isn't long for this world in the books(I feel like she will die in Winds, and Jaime will outlive her). I also think Daenerys taking King's Landing from Aegon will be before the Long Night, and that after finally having the Iron Throne she will have a redeeming moment where she decides to do her duty and fight the Others (probably flying to the trident like in that vision). Like none of this is based on much evidence though, and just my speculation. However, one thing I'm confident in is she won't go "mad". Cersei's going "mad" already, and George wouldn't just make the only two women in power in his story go insane.
I absolutely agree that Dany isn't and never will be mad, but I don't think that she will have a redeeming moment saving people from the Others. I actually don't think that she or any Targaryen will have anything to do with the battle against the Others, even Jon, because thematically I think it makes no sense.
Targaryens saving Westeros even though they have no real connection to it would baffle me, and after every horrible thing that happened because of Rhaegar's belief that his magical Targaryen gonads were going to create the lone savior of the world, I feel like his presumption of his own importance actually being correct would be a really odd narrative payoff for that self-obsession.
Totally agree with this comment
@@HillsAliveYT yeah but Jon is basically just Targaryen in name. His entire story is dealing with the Others. It would be dumb if he suddenly just wasn’t
@@jaimelannister1797 Well l don't think his story won't deal with it, I just don't think he or any of the Targaryens are going to be the key to stopping them like so many people seem to think they are. If he was, then Rhaegar would be like the first person in Planetos history to actually interpret a prophecy correctly, and it would be very odd to essentially narratively reward Rhaegar for doing so much damage to the world in the name of fulfilling prophecy. Given that we know that Rhaegar interprets prophecies wrong anyway, I assume that because he thinks one of his children is destined to bring the dawn then it will absolutely not be either of them, and it would make even less sense if it was Dany. And thematically I just don't feel like any one person will be the make-or-break thing for defeating the Others. It's about everyone in Westeros uniting, not one person being the hero.
I think Jon is basically meant to ring the alarm and get people's attention, but if he does what he did in GoT and winds up entangled with Dany who doesn't really want to help him then it wouldn't be surprising if he's stuck dealing with the political stuff he hates when the Others show up in the North. I pretty much think that anyone who is still trying to play the game of thrones once the threat of the Others becomes known is going to completely miss the battle against them, and if Jon is trying to rally people who don't want to help then I don't expect him to play a huge role in the climax of that arc. And that would certainly be a subversion of everyone's expectations for Jon.
@@thetalesofelbek7042 Well we all have our different interpretations, but I just can't see how a bunch of living nuclear bombs are going to save the world, and I don't see GRRM going for that kind of story anyway. Personally I think that ice and fire are both two forms of destruction that are threatening humanity, and the conclusion of GoT seems to back that idea up, but I guess we'll never know for sure before the books are released.
With the bell thing, all they had to do was have Dany's enemies trick her into thinking that ringing the bells meant the city would never surrender and she ends up not only burning the city with Dragon fire, but also the wild fire under the city that Cersei may have had planted.
George said that there will be a second dance. I don't believe he will get a dragon but since he has started his conquest I don't think he will get his dragon but rather he would use wildfire. this will lead to the destruction. the vfx team have already confirmed that the fire was wildfire green not dragonfire red. I find it hard to believe that with so many different evidences show that the capital was burned down with wildfire for it to be just a show thing especially because of the Cersei chapters in feasts
I think wildfire will definitely be a factor, but I think it will be the wildfire that was left throughout the city by Aerys. That's a Chekhov's gun that has been waiting to go off for almost the entire story, but I don't think adding more literal fuel to the fire aside from that will be super necessary.
@@HillsAliveYT that is quite true. I am wondering how this will go about . if luck is on my side then I might get the ending to the series in my lifetime. Hopefully he does finish it so we can put this all to bed
@@marwanali4878 LOL I'm the rare optimist about the books being released, I honestly do think it'll happen!
@@HillsAliveYT I joke around with my husband that George has already finished it and is having fun making us wait and bite our nails. It's most likely in his will to release it after a preferred period of mourning. But in reality, it probably is a little daunting to tie together all the threads.
The bells did not trigger Dany to kill civilians. She knew what they meant and torched KL anyway. Ignoring the bells was the most important part of the episode and her characters journey in the show. Ignoring them turned a military victory into mass murder. She forgot everything she learned in merrine.
i'm obsessed with your takes, and i really hope aegon get to claimed a dragon, but i don't see him that much interested in the creatures or even in talks about her father (there's a convo between him and jonco that sounded indifferent towads rhaegar and their similarities)
I have a question, which I think is best asked here. How do you think Daenerys will become Mad after being corrupted by her absolute Power in the Books? In the Show, we got a Half-Baked and very unsatisfying Version of a "Power-Corruption-Madness"-Arc (as I call it) where Daenerys becomes Mad after all her Power doesn't give her the feeling she wants, but leaves her constantly craving. More importantly, which incising Indident will she cause, that breaks the Camels back? I don't think it will be her killing Young Griff/Aegon mostly because she has no connection to him and he is a competitor for the Throne, which means he has to die otherwise her Goal won't be fulfilled. In the Show we saw the Death of Rhaegal and Missandei, which both were Incidents caused by her Enemies, so nothing she did. This Power-Corruption-Madness-Thing nearly every time this Incident is something the Character inflicts on themself.
I watched some Videos on that Topic and would love to read your answer about it. How Daenerys will lose her Mind and become mad.
i suggest reading "Untangling the Meereenese Knot" which is a fan theory that was directly acknowledged by GRRM (according to GRRM, the author of the theory just gets it). it tackles dany's plot in meereen and what it implies for dany's future
@@MayumiSaegusaShiba I searched the Internet and it seems there are more than one Website with that Headline. Do you have a Link?
parts III, IV, and V especially analyze dany's personality and her plot so far which i think you'd find interesting!
I dont think so much it's that she's corrupted by power. I think Dany has convinced herself so much that she is the right and good hero who is owed this pointy ass chair and the love of the people of Westeros, that when her fantasy that she has willingly deluded herself into believing for literal years is broken she'll snap. All of her life Dany has had people telling her and her brother that everyone in Westeros want a Targaeryon on the throne, that they'll happily overthrow the usurper king and everything will be puppies and rainbows if they can only fund an army to protect them and gets boats to take them back to Westeros. Not even Drogo is all that into the idea (a guy who gets off on conquering) until he gets into the idea that his son will be the Stallion that Mounts the Earth or whatever. Drogo isnt stupid, he knows that the dothraki dont do boats and dont conquer cities. There is a reason dothraki dont really mess with cities in Essos and they only end up doing it when Dany takes over. The dothraki know they cant control a city, they dont have the unity to fight an organized military, and they dont need to. They get enough harassing smaller towns and travellers. Dany has no such grounding mindset that anything besides being a queen on a country is enough. She doesnt accept being a queen of the whole of the dothraki(whom she forces to serve her through fire and blood), nor any of the major cities she "frees".
Dany wants the throne and repeatedly refuses to accept that she may not be wanted whenever it is brought up to her that the people werent that happy with her father and may not want a dragon riding queen. The North want to be free, but do you think dany will accept that despite proclaiming she is someone who frees slaves? Of course not, because the North is part of the country she wants to rule over. The Lannisters and their bannermen and allies arent going to want to bend the knee and neither are the Dornishmen. The Riverlands and the Vale side with the Starks.
And the remaining people and smallfolk who still see Kings Landing as an open seat of power like the idea of Young Gryff taking over, someone that Dany doesnt just see as a rival, but as a pretender who unjustly is staking a claim.
Throughout her entire journey Dany has lied to herself, through years and years of war and trauma, and I think that finding out that everything she believed in was not just a lie but leaves her worse off if she fails to become queen, then she very well could snap. At any point Dany could give up on the iron throne and settle with her power in essos, actually learn to be a ruler and not just conquerer. She could marry for political power or have one of her lovers. She holds all the cards in Essos to make a stand against the cities who are rallying to fight back. But she wont, she believes too deeply in her claim. Once she hits Westeros with her armies she will have to see it through. In Essos, all the slave cities are amassing to reclaim and fight back against her. She cant hold onto power without the full force of her armies and dragons, so returning defeated will result in another defeat. In Westeros she has to fight not only this other Targaeryon but force all the fractured parts to reunite under her, which I cant see happening without further war. She has to go all in, double or nothing in westeros and I think losing in any way will be her tipping point.
Great video! Keep up the good work. Congrats on a thousand subscribers!
I find the showrunners to have a strange perception of the characters. When Daenerys burns slavers and enemy commanders that refuse to capulate, we are meant to take that as bad. But when Jon beheads a child and Ned kills Lady, we are meant to see them as good guys? I find it confusing that the signs before "The Bells" all are heroic and the only argument is "She's doing war" and "She and her troops wear black, so they're obviously evil".
I'm looking forward to seeing how George will handle the turn in the books. The signs are already there so it won't be as sudden, and it will be handled in a better way than "Women are crazy".
Thanks! And I completely agree, I feel like the showrunners and writers got way lost in the sauce and felt like everyone liked GoT for its gritty violence, therefore made all of the characters super violent across the board with little regard for whether or not it made sense for the characters.
I also think that they didn't do near enough to establish that Dany's beliefs aren't necessarily reflective of reality. I mean, in the books nearly everyone she kills seems like an evil redshirt, but because we see it through Dany's eyes it's easy to realize that in the eight seconds she sometimes takes to decide whether or not someone lives or dies, she probably isn't assessing them very realistically. In the show they just made everyone she faced off against so over-the-top villainous and made her aspirations so heroic (when to me it seems obvious that a lot of her choices in the books are more based on convenience or how much it helps her get closer to the Iron Throne) that they essentially wrote themselves into a corner they couldn't get out of in the end.
I guess we have a whole new perspective on Rhaegar and Lyanna now we know about Aegon's dream.
Not really, both Aegon and Rhaegar used prophecy to justify their violence and the pain and suffering they caused
prophecy in asoif is suposed to be a dangerouse thing that only causes destruction we saw this with both rheagar and viscerys(in the dance of the dragons show) and it will be similar for aegon. perhaps conquering westeros is what woke the others in the first place and aegon only intrepreted his dream the way it suited him as it's always the case with prophecy
Love the catch about the bells and how this time there will be 🔥
Thanks! And it may be a stretch but the fact that Jon Connington has gotten such little POV time as a character but that this has been pointed out repeatedly makes me feel like there has to be at least something significant about the Battle of the Bells going forward.
Hill's Alive ....crazy thought for what it is worth.... Cersei tried to use fire to root out Tyrion from the Tower of the Hand. Tyrion is set for a betrayal of Dany as we saw in the last season. Maybe Jon Con and Griff’s dragon root him out? Or something. Just a thought with no reflection.
@@SeptaShaenasSapphires Actually that is interesting, I'll have to think about it more.
@@SeptaShaenasSapphires Tyrion is based off of: Tyrian from Dragonslayer (80s), Rumplestiltskin, and Willow Ofgood of Willow (80s). His betrayal to Daenerys will be stealing her baby from being given to the Others, he won't succeed. She'll be dead anyway from a Cesarean birth, but Jon will do his Lord Commander's/Night King duty and deliver the baby to the North; hence his show leaving for the North ending.
This is a great video.
Thank you! 💜
You make an interesting prediction about Jon Con. If Aegon turns out to not be a Targaryen, which I what I personally believe, I cannot imagine Jon Con dying without finding that out. I would be disappointed if if he doesn't. And I think he would be very upset to have been bamboozled by Varys & Illyrio. I would even go further and say that it's totally possible that he could kill Aegon. Especially if he believes they are both doomed anyway.
I believe that Jon Connington will be the Reason for Kingslanding burning down. I think Dany will have to burn the city due to Greyscale. Book six seems more darker and evil, and the fact that Grey Scale is here will be Dany's Reason. So far Dany hasn't really acted selfishly in terms of gaining her throne. Dany is for the people. Is she perfect? Hell no, but she tries. I just don’t see her going mad.
She has acted selfishly. The issue is we see her story largely from her perspective and Dany doesnt have the patience to listen to setbacks. If you look at her actions in Essos, none of the "good" she does stays good. She sees something she doesnt like while in her quest to the throne and takes the shortest cut to "fixing" it without accepting any responsibility for the people she claims to care about. You can see it most starkly with the Unsullied. She hated seeing slavery so she murdered the masters and then told the people, who were mostly brainwashed and traumatized, unsure how to be in normal society, to do whatever they wanted. They only knew how to be soldiers, so they followed her and essentially continued to live the life they were forced into. But imagine Dany wasnt in need of an army and they really did try to just reintegrate into society, without any help or guidance. Most would probably be recaptured or follow their training and end up killing to keep their freedom until they themselves were killed. Brainwashed soldiers dont just become citizens and Dany doesnt consider this. Her only care is that she finds slavery to be distasteful and doesnt want to see it. She abolishes slavery and then leaves because being an abolishionist is something that takes more time than she's willing to give because her personal desires are more important to her.
If she cared about the people more than just feeling morally just, then she wouldnt have tried to force her view on others when it cimes to the fighting pits, which both master and slave wanted to keep open but she hated the thought of (as if she isnt walking around with a dothraki horde who love violence)
In every single city Dany visits, the moment she leaves it becomes worse than when she arrived. Some cities get retaken, slaves get murdered trying ti defend their freedom and failing, others get stuck in a power vaccuum where worse people than the masters take over, others dont have laws in place to actually remain stable.
If Dany cared like she goes on about caring, then she would stay in cities and deal with them properly. But most of the time she doesnt even have patience to handle the issue of the masters without some amount of burning. Most of the cities she took over revolved around some major dragon-related death, including the dothraki.
For someone who doesnt like slavery. She certainly doesnt mind conquering and subjugating people by any means possible and that's as early as the first people she takes over. The dothraki dont want to follow her or go to westeros... so she burns their leaders and takes over? It's almost explicitly been stated to her that the people of Westeros dont want her several times, but she still wants to press her claim and force them. That is not the mindset of someone who actually cares about the people's will. Dany sees herself as a hero, so her perspective chapters set herself up as one and downplay the reality of the problems she causes.
Damn I love this! I had been thinking that JC would burn KL to serve Aegon, but it's way more likely to play out the way you describe. Love it!!!
I like this theory and I'm hoping it comes to fruition. The show could have been much different with 10 seasons, more patience, and more time. Though waiting for GRRM to finish book 6 would have been frustrating, I think the end result could've been worth it
I have never thought Dany to be on a dark path and I don’t understand why others do. She did a number on Astapor after being horrified at the training of Unsullied. She nailed masters to posts because they did the same to children. Her knee jerk reactions to injustice seems tempered by her council. Merrine is her apprenticeship for ruling. Dany has gone out of her way for peace. She could have killed every great master and their families but did not. She is learning to be a good and just ruler. Dany believes a queen lives for her people.
Dany has been taught that her return is secretly hoped for when nothing could be further from the truth. Once in Westeros she will be in for a rude awakening. Going Mongol on KL wouldn’t make any more sense in the books than it did in the show simply because it would be so unnecessary. With her army and dragons one or two displays like the Field of Fire will prevent any further resistance from opposing armies.
What fate do you think awaits our young Queen Margaery Tyrell?
Well it's a bummer, but I expect her to be killed by Cersei like she was in GoT. But if it makes you feel better, I expect you and Willas to survive to the end.
@@HillsAliveYT aww thank you. Love your visa btw
She might survive and would end up as a hostage in KL to keep The Tyrells on a leash. However, when Dany comes to fire bomb KL... well, you can guess what happens.
@@gfilmer7150 Nah, Cersei hates her too much to keep her alive.
Man I wanted a second Dance, with Aegon claiming one of the dragons.
Didn’t grrm say a few weeks ago his ending will be different in the books thrn the show anyway he won’t finish the books anyways so doesn’t matter
Well I might be wearing my clown shoes about this forever but I honestly do think that TWOW is pretty close to being finished and I do think there's a good chance the whole series will be released. But if we're thinking of the same interview I think he meant that the ending would be different in that GoT cut out like 90% of the subplots and background story and basically made Jon and Dany the only relevant characters in the last two seasons so obviously a lot of the ending had to be different because of that.
@@HillsAliveYT what information makes u think ggrm has almost finished twow all we Herat about is everything else but the winds of winter from him only time we hear of it is when he says it delayed
@@lxfj2128 It's nothing specific, just the vibe I get from his responses and my relatively unfounded optimism. I just get the impression that he actually has been close to finishing for a while just like he says he is, but that he's the type of writer whose writing gets longer and more involved the more he writes it so it keeps on getting drawn out. I have never thought that he had writers block or didn't know where the story was going, my impression has always been that he writes too much instead of too little and that's what's taking so long.
Tiny tiny gripe with the video GRRM isn't a pacifist. He was a conscientious objector to the Vietnam War but has said that he probably would have served during world war 2.
I disagree. The books seem to foreshadow Jon Connington doing whatever it takes to get Aegon on the throne, and let's not forget that Kings Landing is sitting on top of a cache of wildfire. Cersei will not give up and go away so easily, and neither will the High Sparrow. As for Daenerys, nothing in her story arc or prophecy seems to foreshadow her ending up in Kings Landing. I'm under the impression that she gets killed in the Trident like Rhaegar during the Battle for the Dawn, but not before she barbecues a few cities in Essos, specifically Volantis, Mereen, and Vaes Dothrak. Braavos would be nice, but I'm getting greedy.
I just love that the image at 6:12 is supposed to be Jon Con and Rhaegar. Yes, the Targaryen men were extremely beautiful, though I'm pretty sure they still _looked_ like men. I can't stop laughing whenever I see that particular image.
LOL well actually I'm not so sure! It's very odd that when Arianne meets Lysono Maar she's weirded out by his appearance, and he's like "oh you think I look like a woman?" and Arianne's like "no I thought you looked like a Targaryen," it's interesting that GRRM included that particular exchange.
@@HillsAliveYT I was thinking about this line while I was writing this comment haha. Still, I don't know how so many straight women are attracted to these incredibly effeminate men 💋
🐉
The only scene I can't get out of my head is when they get to the city in the Red Waste, Quarth. When she says she will take back what is hers with fire and blood. And the dude is like. "I'm sure that may be true my lady, but not with my ships." That tells us everything we need to know about it. I'm talking about the show by the way.
Another great video!
You are definitely leaning on the good ruler equals powerful ruler, pacifist angle. Which normally I would say,
"oh that's kinda being a chick."
But it seems like George R Martin is a chick in that respect too!
I'm just being funny/ playful. I don't really mean to be sexist. After all, I'm a girl myself...
I love the slower narration, I love the well organized intelligence, I love the kind of adorable arrogance, and I love the really deep insight.
That video about the lemon tree...
😔💔😔
I watched it. I watched it again with my fiancé, we both agree it's a *haunting* psychological narrative.
Rather brilliant!
According to you argument, the lemon tree is essentially a hallucination.
The hallucinatory mental salve of a lonely and traumatized young woman.
How tragic is that… 😢🥺😢💔🥺😢💔
This is a channel to watch. You've done some amazing things!
Thanks so much!
It won’t happen, but I’d love to see Aegon win the throne. Nobody in the realm, and none of the readers, suspected a newbie like Griff would win. He’s clearly the best candidate for a monarch at this moment, and will benefit the realm. He’s the “good ending” that we all know probably won’t happen, but would be the best possible situation for the people of Westeros.
Dany will destroy him, and that’s going to suck for a lot of reasons. Dany is a tyrant and that will be revealed when she slays the only good king playing the game.
I think the Dragons will know that fAegon is not who he claims 2 be and will be eaten or burned by the Dragons.
I actually think that Euron stealing a dragon might factor into this though, it occurred to me that if Aegon is real then perhaps he's meant to ride Viserion, but because Euron will likely steal a dragon then Viserion would reject him and further convince Dany that he's not a real Targaryen when he actually is.
You are close, but stuff to keep in mind. Varys supports Aegon 6 and knows secret ways into KL, so Aegon 6 conquering KL will be like Tywin conquering KL probably nicer hence winning hearts and minds. Tommen and Cercei will likely be locked in a tower and spared. Tommen's death mirroring the show out the window, last book Cercei and Jaime joining him.
Daenerys will first accept Aegon 6; since her dragon, just like Aerys' did, will accept him by smell. Targaryens with the dragon gene give off a pheromone, it's why Aerys knew and why Pretty Maris was sniffed at. This will end badly since Aegon will demand HIS dragons, revealing that the gifted eggs are his and since men can't hatch eggs Varys "lent" her the eggs to hatch them for him. When Daenerys says no, Septa Lemore and company will point out that Daenerys is Ashara's daughter and not trueborn; telling about her son Gregor killed instead of Aegon 6, Davos smuggling them from Dragonstone, and Daenerys being born in Storm's End (maybe traveling to the Tower of Joy, Tyrosh later, Bravos after, and splitting the group at one of those points. Aegon 6 likely split at Dragonstone or Storm's End but could have left later ToJ/Tyrosh/Bravos, Septa Lemore would have been with him the others might have stayed til Bravos after meeting with Viserys' crew and sending most to Aegon 6.) Daenerys won't accept the loss of her crown/rank of course nor dragons, but probably will just burn the Aegon crew currently led by Selmy, Jon Con will step down. Sansa will survive as Dowager Queen, basically Cercei's unofficial apprentice and head back to North to get kidnapped in the Vale by Timmitt.
Cercei will burn the sept, while Daenerys is off. Daenerys will return burn KL then Cercei jumps from the burning tower, Jaime tries a swing save and plummets holding her.
Oh yeah, Bells don't go off for Aegon's conquering, but Daenerys' return to burn Cercei.
I only see Cersei or Connington burning KL, the dragons are for the wights
Bran should give us the answer and stop acting like a creep
Dany isn’t that brutal, at least not yet in the books. She wasn’t especially brutal to the harpy in Meereen when she could’ve been. She didn’t kill the yunkai hostages, locked up her dragons cause one of them killed a kid and hell she married that dweeb Hizdar just for peace in Meereen.
Where is Jon in this? as long as he lives the Targaryen bloodline continues
Queen Mother Cersei Lannister is the one who will obviously blow up KL 🤷🏾♂️ The Wildfire underneath the city almost went off during Robert's Rebellion. This time with her back against wall, facing the Faith of the Seven, a Young Griff Invasion, the possible deaths of her last two children, the lose of her station or life, Cersei will have Qyburn light the Wildfire to destroy some enemy but possibly end up triggering all of the wildfire and destroying the capital, all the people in it and around it, including herself. It might not happen this way, but I'm convinced Cersei will blow up KL someway somehow.
No, Dany is the hero and GRRM is using HOTD to set up the real ending for his books. Dany isn’t going mad and won’t destroy King’s Landing. Jon’s real identity might get revealed and Griff might end up teaming up with Dany.
theire are no heroes in asoif. grrm like deconstructing the typical fantasy tropes so the long lost princess coming so claim her throne save the people and be the beloved just queen won't happen in this story
Jon killed Jonas Slynt for not obaying his comands
He killed Olly who whas 10
No one is calling him crazy for it
You are a misogenic and openly hate speeching the best and most popular caracter on the show
You mean Slynt who was called a man without honor by Tyrion? Who betrayed Ned Stark? Who murdered Ned's bannermen? Who killed all of Robert's bastard children? Who intentionally schemed to have Jon murdered? The fact that he hid in the kitchen when they were under attack by the Wildings actually justified death as his punishment, but he is allowed to live. Then, when Jon orders him to take command of a different part of the wall he not onky refuses but he insults Jon by doing so. This cimes at the crucial time when half the Night's Watch doesnt fully want to follow Jon and a show of force is needed to prove he wont tolerate unrest. If he lets Slynt go, then the others will also refuse to respect his orders. As we saw later, anyone who mutinees gets death as punishment, so by killing Slynt there Jon is hoping to only need to kill one man instead of half the Watch. Plus, again, Slynt played a big hand in murdering Jon's father, putting his sisters under the thumb of the Lannisters and leading to a war where his brothers are believed to be killed.
Olly doesnt exist in the books, but even in the show Olly was a mutineer. You can see Jon doesnt want to do it, but being fair means that he has to punish everyone equally. Mutiny means death, those are the rules. If jon were to kill Olly just because, then he would have done it after Olly killed Ygrette. He wouldnt have kept the boy as a steward or trained him to fight after knowing this kid killed his lover. In the end Olly literally murders Jon Snow, so how are you going to say it's wrong that he dies?
Meanwhile Danaerys murders all of the Dothraki leadership to take control of it. She kills the leadership of every city she visits who stands against her in some way. She kills people who she has no stake in killing. When she kills House Tarly, it's set up like a similar show of force that jon has to make, except she has options. Sam's younger brother is clearly honorable and his dad (while a jerk) is simply a man on the other side of a war who refuses to bend the knee. She could have made Sam's dad take the black and convince his brother to keep their house alive before just outright slaughtering them. Her show of force is meant to envoke fear, not respect. If Dany were a good ruler, she would have tried to take the system she's trying to conquer into consideration rather than forcing it to change to suit her and she would have spent more time trying to get the lords on her side than wholesale murder because they dont want her to be queen. The Nights Watch votes and Jon fairly won. Dany was told several times most people dont want to follow her so she threatened them with her dragons.
Jon and Dany are not similar in their crimes and it isnt mysoginistic to say that Dany is a bad person. It isnt the killing that makes them bad, it's the reason for it. Jon kills when he has to for the good of people, Dany justifies brutality for the sake of her own personal ego.
@@Wandervenn Jonas Slynt whas sentenced to go to the wall for his sins. He folowed the orders of his masters. Jon had no reason to kill him because he did not know abot any of the thing he did. He executed him for not ovaying his comands. Watch the episode again.
You are saying that Jon Didnt kill olly in the books guess what Dany doesnt butn KL in the books eather.
Daenerys burned the khalls because they wanted to enslave and rape her, and give their horses a turn. She had every rught to defend herself and she did
Daenerys didnt kill no one without a reason
She even has public trials and acts acording to the law
Jon executed and senteced people by himself
Dany whas not said by anyone that they dont want to follow her
She liberated slaves and they maide thier own choice to follow her
Jon whas killed by their own man because he whas a bad leader
Keep lying to yourself delusional Jon boy
@@Wandervenn she gave the Taryls a choice and they maide it themself
They where traitors just like Jon betraying Ollyena who they swear aligence to.
Jon betrayed the woman that loved him and saved him and his family several time and in return they stabbed her in the back the moment Nk whas dead
Ploted agains her to put Jon on the trone
I hope she will be resurected in future shows and burns One by one all the starks
Jon would be last so he can watch them all burn
@@SuperCrofan olly doesnt exist as a character in the books.
Slynt wasnt sent to the wall as punishment. He was given Harrenhal and made commander of the city watch. He was literally made nobility for his service. Tyrion has him sent to the wall in hopes to take power from Cersei. He gets rid of as many of those loyal to her as possible.
Slynt is sent to command another part of the wall by Jon, but because it's not a cushier area, Slynt refuses. By law that is betraying his oath and Jon can kill him. So the Tarlys choose their death and are okay to be killed but not Slynt?
And Dany DOES kill in the book. She burns Mirri Maz Durr alive. Mirri was a free woman was raped by Drogo's men and then taken as a personal slave by Dany. Dany then begged Mirri to save Drogo when he was mortally wounded. She gave them explicit instructions and Drogo failed to follow. The Dany begs Mirri to use dark magic to save him. She tells Dany she will but not to enter the tent. Jorrah brings Dany into the tent and her baby dies. None of that was Mirri's fault but Dany murders her anyway.
She went to the Dothraki to force them ti keeo their promise ti Khal Drogo. They told her no and as a tradition is to join the other widowed Khalisis. She refused and they threatened to rape and sell her. She wasnt acting in self defense, she went there to force them to follow her. She had full autonomy before this but refused to leave the dothraki behind because they were her only power at the time. She demanded rapers and slavers to help her, of course they threatened to rape and enslave her!
She trapped two people who betrayed her in a temple to slowly starve to death. She could have killed them quickly but chose the torturous route.
Not a single city she took over was better off for it. Every single one was taken back over by slavers the moment she left. In Astapor she demanded the death of every single slave owner. Now remember that dany owned slaves when she was part of the dothraki because she had to conform to that system. She tried to treat them better but she was still a slave owner. Nobody else got that consideration. She had them all murdered. What of the kids? They were either orphaned and left to die or killed. Then she set up a council and left. The council is overthrown and Astapor is taken over by someone who is a butcher. Then its fought over. The remaining unsullied are killed. Eventually the entire city starves and resorts to cannabalism. Everyone who escapes goes to Dany in Mareen but are left to die of plague outside the city.
Dany only stays in Mareen because it has the harbor where she can go to Westeros. She kills one of her council for killing a slaver set to go to trial (because only dany can just murder bad guys) and starts off a whole civil war within mareen. The other slave cities come to overthrow her. She burns them and leaves, leaving behind only another council... because that worked in Astapor.
The only people who came out better for her conquering them are the unsullied who followed her as soldiers and survived... which she could have obtained without murdering all the masters in Astapor.
And that's just the books. She kills the Tarlys and Varys because they didnt want her to rule them. So slaves are wrong, but forcing an entire nation to do what you tell them is okay?
Jon kills Slynt to keep order, he kills Olly and the other mutineers because they mutinied, he protects the wall but seeks peace with the wildings and only goes to war after the wall falls and they need to unite everyone and that is somehow comparable to all of the people Dany has killed for her own power? No it isnt. He kills dany in the show because she MURDERS EVERYONE and then he willingly seeks punishment for his crime. Jon acts out of neccessity and Dany seeks power and to soothe her misplaced anger with blood.
She isnt going to be ressurected and if she did, she would be a revenant just like Lady Stoneheart and would absolutely be a villain.
@@Wandervenn she killed Miri mas door because she killed her unborn child
She gave a horse as a savrifice for Khals life but Miri decided to take revenge on a single person that showed her mercy
She killed her kid and man
She deserved to die
Dany didnt enslaved her the dotraki did and she whasnt responsible for what the did to her prior
She defended her from more beating and raping
She took ravenge against the only caracter that showed her mercy
Killing and unborn kid has no justification
Killing a kid eaven Olly has no justification no matter what that kid has done bit you dont get it
She locked a person who tried to trick her to steal her dragons and a servent who whas unloyal to her big deal
Dany didnt want to leave to westeros until the security of the slaves and the cities whas secured she emphesises that several times in the show
She left Dario and others in charge to secure their safety
Dany seeked the death of slavemasters because they crucified the inocent kids on the way to Meeren
I cannot belive that you are defending the slavemasters
They knew what they where doing and she just answered the same way
The punishment for people that kill children should always be death no matter how bad the children where
If you are justifying killing Jonas for not obaying your comands please dont ever be enyones boss
Every death comited by Dany has a reason and it is justified and the people she did kill really deserve it
I just want the entire ending outline he handed them for that show shitcanned. It’s bad. It’s all really really bad. 🤦♀️ my only solace at this point is that he will die before he writes mad dany into actual existence
It won’t happen, but I’d love to see Aegon win the throne. Nobody in the realm, and none of the readers, suspected a newbie like Griff would win. He’s clearly the best candidate for a monarch at this moment, and will benefit the realm. He’s the “good ending” that we all know probably won’t happen, but would be the best possible situation for the people of Westeros.
Dany will destroy him, and that’s going to suck for a lot of reasons. Dany is a tyrant and that will be revealed when she slays the only good king playing the game.