Young Griff - The Sixth Blackfyre Rebellion? | ASOIAF Animated
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- Опубликовано: 14 май 2024
- Who is Young Griff? A Targaryen, a peasant pretender... or a Blackfyre? Subscribe: @fantasyhaven1 Patreon: / fantasyhaven
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TIME STAMPS:
00:00 - Varys & Illyrio
02:38 - Young Griff
05:33 - Targaryen or Blackfyre?
"A Song of Ice and Fire (commonly abbreviated as ASoIaF) is an ongoing series of epic fantasy novels by American novelist and screenwriter George R. R. Martin. Martin began writing the series in 1991 and the first volume was published in 1996.
The story of A Song of Ice and Fire takes place in a fictional world, primarily on a continent called Westeros but also on a large landmass to the east, known as Essos. Most of the characters are human but as the series progresses others are introduced, such as the cold and menacing supernatural Others from the far North and fire-breathing dragons from the East, both thought to be extinct by the humans of the story. There are three principal story lines in the series: the chronicling of a dynastic civil war for control of Westeros among several competing families; the rising threat of the Others, who dwell beyond an immense wall of ice that forms Westeros' northern border; and the ambition of Daenerys Targaryen, the exiled daughter of a king who was murdered in another civil war fifteen years before, to return to Westeros and claim her rightful throne. As the series progresses, the three story lines become increasingly interwoven and dependent upon each other."
"Game of Thrones is an American fantasy drama television series created by David Benioff and D. B. Weiss for HBO. It is an adaptation of A Song of Ice and Fire, a series of fantasy novels by George R. R. Martin, the first of which is A Game of Thrones. Set on the fictional continents of Westeros and Essos, Game of Thrones has a large ensemble cast and follows several story arcs throughout the course of the show. The first major arc concerns the Iron Throne of the Seven Kingdoms of Westeros through a web of political conflicts among the noble families either vying to claim the throne or fighting for independence from whoever sits on it. A second focuses on the last descendant of the realm's deposed ruling dynasty, who has been exiled to Essos and is plotting to return and reclaim the throne. The third follows the Night's Watch, a military order defending the realm against threats from beyond Westeros's northern border."
#gameofthrones #asoiaf #blackfyre 
Развлечения
Is Young Griff a Targaryen or a Blackfyre?
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Blackfyre
BLACKFYRE ALL THE WAY!!!!!He is the Hope to put the Real Royal Family on the Thorne and bring Bittersteel home.
Targaryen. Varys knew the secret passages within the Red Keep.
He seems like he could be a blackfyre from the female line that has been mentioned but honestly that could just be with George RR Martin wants us to think and he could be really be Lyanna and Rhaegars son
Neither. Now could you imagine lol
Upon finally reading the books, the exclusion of the Young Griff/Aegon/Faegon storyline from the show became the thing I wish they kept the most
I only finished ADWD four days ago and I wholely agree. More expounding upon the Ironborn would've also been good. An accurate Euron and an existing Victarion.
Yeah it would've made everything more interesting
They mixed the arcs of Jon/Griff in the series, I think Griff will be the one to ride one of Dany's dragons, not Jon. And the final battle for the Iron Throne will be between Dany and Griff.
That and Stoneheart would have likely allowed the show to progress more stabily after the books ended.
But for some reason the show played down the magical elements to such a degree it removed a vital thread from the masterful tapestry
So you could see what happens in that plotline, seeing as how GRRM is never finishing the books?
It's interesting that Varys says he bought the child with Arbor Gold. There's a great theory that whenever arbor gold is mentioned someone in the scene is lying
This is one my favorite theories!
Although my issue with that theory is: show me a scene in ASOIAF that DOESN'T involve "someone" lying. If the theory was that the person *speaking* was lying, that would be something to work with, but short of doing more research into it, I'd assume it's as vague as it is because the more specific version doesn't work.
'He's a Blackfyre, she's a Blackfyre, you're a Blackfyre, I'm a Blackfyre?!? Are there any more Blackfyres I should know about'
What does Varys say? "Power resides where men believe it resides. It's a trick. A shadow on the wall. And a very small man can cast a very large shadow.” Small man, boy, the statement holds.
It doesn't matter is he's FAegon, or Aegon. He just has to be believably king.
What if JonCon is secretly a Blackfyre
My gods you’ve cracked the case
JonCon is secretly heterosexual
Now you've gone too far. George, we need the six book!@@JohnCena-um5uo
Dont be silly. JonCon is a horse
Jon Con is actually short for Jonathan Contractually ObligatedtoseatHotPieon theIronThrone. You heard it here first.
It would be a funny moment if a young griff as a Blackfyre became king, even if for a moment, and others rally to him against Daenerys if she doesn’t take it lying down. A Blackfyre, seen by most of Westeros as the villains of the story, is seen as more legitimate than the actual heir of house Targaryen. The Irony would be strong.
Edited to clarify things.
I don't know what you mean House Blackfyre are the Heros
Villains!?
Daemon Blackfyre was a hero! THE KING WHO BORE THE SWORD! When George said the hero of ASOIAF is dead before the story begins, he meant KING DAEMON!!!
Repent your blasphemy, wicked one.
@@ABoyNamedSnowHe meant prince rhaegar , not some naive idiot who got himself killed by bloodraven and tell how is he a hero when he literally tried to usurp his trueborn half-brother daeron's birthright
@@SherlockHolmesb-kp4ruDaeron was a bastard of Aemon and his sister, Daemon Blackfyre was the true heir.
@@theArab__aemon the dragon knight better
I love that you showed Tyrek Lannister as a horse. Great reference.
Last seen ahorse.
I think he's a Blackfyre via the female line. The son of Illyrio and his late wife, but he was raised to think he's Aegon VI and JonCon is also convinced he's the son of his crush.
Lmao I think it would also be cool is Illyrio is a descendant of Aerion Brightflame( he had bastards in essos) essentially this would unite the brightflames and the blackfyres in a weird way which would be cool.
Don't know why anyone thinks he's a peasant boy because Varys and Illyrio would never let Young Griff try and claim one of Daenerys Dragons without Valyrian dragon lord blood in his veins to even make such an attempt feasible. So he's either the real deal or a Blackfyre IMO.
Or another bastard Targaryen
Who says they expected him to ride any dragons? They'd already been invested in him for years before she hatched any.
OH that's actually an excellent point. If they were confident enough to pursue Dany in marriage then he's definitely got the bloodline.
What i really like about Young Griff is how imaginative Fanfic writers got with him. Throughout numerous fanfictnions, he is interpreted and characterised in many ways and it is always a blast to read if done properly. I read them all, from being Aerys the third, to Joffrey reborn to an alright guy to being very sympathetic. Honestly, i like it always the most when he is seen as Aegon, son of Rhaegar, because it would be quite lame if he was just another antagonist in our heroes path, and George doesn't write that way.
I am 75% sure that Young Griff was not the very first false identity Targaryen we have met in the aSoI&F books. In retrospect, I submit that (f)Aegon in DANCE was preceded by (f)Viserys in GAME as the TRUE & GENUINE 👑 Viserys III has been masquerading as Ser Gerold Dayne for years since he was swiftly and secretly sailed down to Dorne from Dragonstone Castle after he was crowned as King of Westeros by Queen Rhaella Targaryen after the sack of King's Landing to be raised by his noble kin of House Dayne with the blessing of his constructive custodian ~ Prince 🤴 Doran Martell who had a long-standing relationship with her Grace via his mother Princess of Dorne . . . a former Lady-in-waiting to 👑 Rhaella Targaryen.
Aegon is a Blackfyre, Jon is a Targaryen, Darkstar is a Targaryen, Edric is a Targaryen, Cersei and Jaime are the children of Aerys the Mad King, Daenerys is the daughter of Ashara Dayne and Ned, the real Daenerys is Wylla Manderly, Septa Lemore is Ashara Dayne, Roose is a vampire, Patchface is a Deep One wearing a skin of a jester, theres an ice Dragon under the Nightfort, and Varys is a Blackfyre and is NOT an eunuch
@@shinken6636 "When you have too long to wait between books"
@giacomoromano8842 I know I'm replying late but if you have any suggestions of good fanfics with YG, would you be willing to share the name ?
Aegon's tragedy only works if he is a good person
Honestly i feel as if GRRM will never reveal if the Young Griff is the real deal or not, i feel as if it goes against what Varys told Tyrion in book two about it not being important if someone is of right bloodline to be a King as long as he has the support of the people as power resides where men believe it resides.
As an Essosi slave, Varys has no reason to care about bloodlines. However, his rescue of Gendry indicates he does care that other people care about it.
Another potential line Young Gryff might be descended from is Aerion Brightflame. We know he had kids - both bastards in Lys, and Maegor (who just disappeared from history after Egg was crowned).
I've been thinking about Saera Targaryen who was the daughter of King Jaehaerys. She fled her home for Lyse where she took service at a Pleasure Garden. Doesn't seem to be an accident that she shares a name with the the Saera that Illerio loved. The back stories for Jaehaerys was recent flushed out in Fire and Blood and I believe some changes were made to Saera and her story.
Saera would have been long dead by the time Illyrio was born though?
@@Basileus1453Yes. Two different Saeras (hundreds of years apart) that suspiciously (foreshadowingly?) share some traits.
@@PintoRagazzo What would that even be foreshadowing. Also the only trait they share was that they were both prostitutes.
She could have had children and there could be a Targaryen line alive and well in Lyse.
@@leotrujillo4177 Princess Saera Targaryen DID have several children and I think several marriages too. Some of them attended the Great Council of 101 to be considered for succession.
Oh my god the Horse-Tyrek caught me completely off guard. I'm dying here.
I wish Feagon was actually Aegon, but there is realistically no way he swapped him out in time, it would mean he knew that Rhaegar would lose at the trident. He is probably A Blackfyre by Sara who I think is the daughter of Daemon Blackfyre (the one that Maëlys ripped his head off)
Varys knew the secret passages within the Red Keep. He COULD exchange him just in time
@@johngaelnox5447 I find Varys' "Baby swap" explanation extremely unlikely. So during the sack of Kings Landing, we're expected to believe Varys acquired a baby and swapped him for Rhaella's son (who died either protecting an imposter or didn't notice the change) relying on the fact that Tywin's men would smash the baby's body so no survivor could recognise his corpse as being fake, spirited the real Aegon away and came back to then serve the incoming regime? It's possible, but incredibly unlikely. Whoever Young Griff is, he's not Rhaegar's "missing" son.
One thing I haven't seen anyone else mention is that when Varys tells the story of the fAegon baby swap, he gave the father of the baby that died a flagon of ARBOR GOLD in exchange for his son. Arbor gold has been linked to numerous lies in text, and pretty much every time it's mentioned, a character is telling a lie.
Why does everyone assume the swap happened at the last second? Couldn't it be like Gilly's baby and have been switch WAY before, like Vasry's is a long-con type schemer, I think he would have switched them almost immediately after birth and used the switched baby as a body double to keep the real prince safe. Kinda like a baby version of Padme from Star Wars ep 1 where she's disguised as a handmaiden.
Also it’s dark that they swapped the boy but not the girl. It’s like, nah fuck you todler you have to die
I think Young Griff might be legit, if only because it would make the stakes and internal conflict more interesting.
If Daenerys kills a Blackfyre Aegon, then we can root for her as she’s destroying another usurper, one who’s stealing her dead nephew’s identity.
But if Young Griff is the real Aegon, then by combating him, she becomes a usurper like Robert. I feel like the latter makes for a more intense narrative than the former
I think the point is that it doesn’t matter whether Young Griff is legit. What’s important is that people believe in him
Young Griff is likely a fake but he doesn't know that since he's raised to believe he was legitimate which makes it tragic for him
The Seven Gods watching fAegon's sixth Blackfyre Rebellion, knowing that they have blessed the Blackfyres with the divine right to rule, but also want to wait until the seventh Blackfyre Rebellion for them to win because of the symbolism: 👀
The grind truly never stops
Bittersteel would be proud.
May the gods provide and give us a Blackfyre, as long as he isn’t some random Lyseni
Jon Con! Rhaegar did not deserve you! Also Faegon being a Blackfyre is like R+L=J, Jojen Paste and Lyanna being the Knight of the Laughing Tree, it’s all but confirmed. Why do People believe Mathis Rowan is a friend in the Reach Again? Tyrek Lannister’s design made me laugh so hard 😂. Another Great video Lord Haven! Can’t wait for the What If… the Blackfyres Won?
Aegon is legit.
R+L=J is the most Red Herring theory
@@Darius-_Quinn the GM has a whole Video about why he’s the best, give it a watch, it’s really good
@ucnguyenanh9414 not even a theory since I newer and haven't had time to read books but fact d&d were hired on who Jon's parents were its fact be super petty to change it since last couple season sucked
@@Darius-_ he is really sad! Who doesn’t love a sad boy
I do recall that LadyKnitsALot once say that GRRM, at some book festival appearance in 2018, had stated that the union of Calla Blackfyre and Aegor Bittersteel had not produced any children. If Aegon is a Blackfyre form female line, it wasn't for Calla one ... at least before when her first husband had perished after the 4th Blackfyre Rebellion, on the Disputed Lands.
Calla has another sister, maybe Faegon descended from her.
GRRM could have, you know, lied.
@@hristol7537 Why? If you don't trust the author of the story about what's canon in the story, why bother with his writing at all?
@@clownpendotfart I think you can only trust what's written in the story, the author may tease or change his mind or lie to hide a spoiler.
@@hristol7537 There have been a lot of SSMs over the decades. Which ones have been lies to conceal spoilers?
I would honestly really love to see some sort of short story spinoff of just the adventures of aegon as young griff and just seeing all the things his little band were up to before aegon was considered ready
Mostly it was training and sailing up and down the Rhoyne
Love your videos man! Thank you.
love this video probably the best video you've made.
Love the vids keep up the good work you absolute mad lad 👍
I love this channel so much. You’re doing great stuff. I completely lost it with Tyrek being ahorse. 😂😂
Seeing Tyrek Lannister “A horse” caught me off guard
Yeaaaaahhh! Another Fantasy heaven video!
Great video!
This an extraordinary! The hours it must have taken to animate this! Brilliant stuff! ❤
Thank you!
Amazing video
omfg that horse tyrek
They want to fulfill the ambition of Bitter steel and Daemon Blackfyre. But they don't knew that Bloodraven was waiting for them as three eyed raven to destroy their plans. He see everything and everyone.
4:03 wouldnt it be more accurate to say Tyrion convinced young griff
I think he is a Blackfyre from the female line.... However that could be exactly what George RR Martin wants us to think....he could be lyanna and Rhaegars kid for all we know
i really thing he is R+L
and john is a Dayne
-
but he might be a bittersteel-blackfyre
@@baronbrummbar8691 you could be right
I REALLY CAN'T IMAGINE ILYRIO AS A BRAAVO
All these theories are mindblowing but also killing me. GRRM or SOMEONE needs to finish the damn books.
Young Griff should have been in the show
Bruv… your videos👌🏾👌🏾👌🏾
Tyrek Lannister is ahorse 😊 that just made my day 😂😂😂
I've been in love with the Blackfyre theory since ASX's video from 2016, but some things still keep confusing me:
- Aerys made Varys his spy master in 278, years before the sack of King's Landing and before the birth (and death) of Aegon. Being able to disguise fAegon/Young Griff as Aegon requires them to be of the same age, so Varys came to King's landing several years before his supposed nephew was born. Hence, putting Young Griff on the Iron Throne can't have been his initial goal. Maybe they wanted to put Serra there instead? If she's Varys's sister, Illyrio would have known her probably gor as long as Varys.
- Varys and Illyrio can only disguise Young Griff as Aegin because there was an Aegon in the first place that was killed but mutilated to an extent that prevents identification. What would Varys and Illyrio have done if there hadn't been a true Aegon on the first place or if the circumstances of his death would have been clearer?
All these theories just serve to scare GRRM at how daunting the task at hand is 🤧🤧🤧🤧🤧🤧
Young Griff gets some hate but despite my thinking that he's a secret Blackfyre lying to everyone, he's still the 'realest' contender for the throne. Just a real dude. Raised similarly to Egg was with Dunk.
Griffgon is a lie not a liar. He and JonCon are unaware
Things you never want Varys to say to you: „hello, my old friend“ 😰😨
On the one hand, I find the idea of Young Griff being a Blackfyre very intriguing, and it does fit nicely with him being supported by the Golden Company. But on the other hand, there's the prophecy Daenerys received about the dangers she'd face, including the "mummer's dragon." I kinda like the idea of that as a double-entendre, that Young Griff isn't just Varys's "dragon," but that he's also a _false_ dragon.
So maybe the Targaryen loyalists like Connington think he's Rhaegar's son, while the Blackfyre loyalists think he's actually a Blackfyre, but really, he's just some kid who happens to have the look of a Valyerian.
Mixing all the theories together, I like it
I think 'Mummer's dragon' and all the cloth dragon imagery is just underlining that Aegon is a puppet of Varys - who started his life as a mummer, and in the books is repeatedly demonstrated to be an actor par excellence. He's not Rhaegar's son of course, I'm pretty sure about that, but him being a mummer's deception as a legitimate Targaryen doesn't mean he doesn't have some royal blood.
Bit late to the party but my data doesn't renew until tomorrow so using work WiFi for this 😊
The ASOIAF thumbnail god 😂
Remember that Tyrek is a horse and will just trample all his foes...wait what?
Kannst du bitte mehr The Winds of Winter Videos machen? Würde mich freuen. LG Thomas
I wonder if Vary's plan was to ensure the most dangerous houses to a restored targaryen rule were each ruled by puppets, one kidnapped member of each while all the others either died or bent the knee realising they had the missing member.
Tyrek is rather odd, because he at first is far away from rule, but now with Kevan, Tywin, Stafford, Willem, and other lannisters dead, Tyrion in exile essentially, Jaime a kingsguard , he's pretty close to being the new lord.
If Edric is captured or Gendry is, he can be legitimised as the new lord of storms end since Robert was the previous lord of storms end before being king, and Renly has no heirs while Stannis is believed to be dead or likely to perish in the north and Shireen is young and a girl with greyscale.
Sansa I wonder if Varys intended to capture her and spirit her away as with all her brothers dead or believed dead and her sister also believed dead, she would be in the heir to the north and by default the riverlands should Edmure die, and it looks good if the targaryen king is the one who spirited her away from the evil lannisters and returns her home, giving the north back to the starks.
I feel like Varys has realised that the reason the targaryens fell was due to alienated allies, too many snubs, and not enough communication or bonds existing between the throne and the lord paramounts, so by having the new lords paramounts around and making them grateful, they will not rebel so easily.
Calling Lemore “soiled” is a bit unfair; I don’t think you have to be a maiden otherwise there would be like, no Septas. The Sept is commonly where women are sent after having children out of wedlock or being unable to find a marriage match; it’s obviously not a disqualifier for the role or she wouldn’t have become one? Like you don’t have to be a virgin to become a nun. And the Septonship is GRRM’s version of the Papacy. Popeship? Whatever the word for Catholicism and the pope is. We see that part through Tyrion’s eyes and he’s paranoid and trying to figure out who these people really are, so it’s extra focused on that she’s had a child and isn’t ashamed of her body. She may not even be a real Septa, like a sanctioned one who trained at the Sept; she could be an Essosi who studied the faith specifically to teach it to Faegon since he’s planning on taking over a continent that predominantly worships the seven. I think there are a lot of conspiracies surrounding her specifically because we’re really introduced to her while Tyrion himself is in full-on conspiracy and subterfuge mode trying to work out who his captors are. I don’t think she’s who a lot of people think she is. I think she’s just a Septa who had a kid.
Leading theory between me and my friend is Vary’s is a Blackfire child or bastard from the golden company and after the war of nine penny kings the other members sold the bastard black fyre child and the daughters into slavery
Varys was tracked down because “there’s power in kings blood” and the slave in the pillow house was Varys half sister or cousin
It’s all a revenge plot at the end of the day in our opinion
I actually reckon he is who they say he is. Either that or he simply is . . . Nobody.
I think Illyrio packed Daenerys and Viserys off to Khal Drogo in the expectation that they'd be killed - to get them out of the way. I think he admits as much to Tyrion in the books. In the books its repeatedly pointed out that the notion of the Dothraki aiding in a reconquest of Westeros is inherently ridiculous, so it's kind of amusing to me that so many people in the fan community take that whole thing at face value.
That feels so silly to me though - why go through the insane trouble to forge an alliance with the Dothrakin and marry Dany off just as a convoluted means of 'getting them out the way"? If Illyrio wanted them gone, he could've just killed them. They were living in his manse.
I honestly think it's a retcon from George
@@fantasyhaven1 I went away and had a look at the Arya scene in book one, with Varys and Illyrio talking. (Varys and Illyrio working together is at least not a retcon)
Illyrio pleads for more time for things to come to fruition in King's Landing, because apparently Khal Drogo won't move until a son is born. Which makes it sound like they were hoping for Drogo to follow through on things in terms of invading Westeros. Or do _something_ at least.
This is crazy though - and it is pointed out as being crazy within book one. Ned states that the Dothraki have no navy and are terrified of water. The notion of Drogo being able to move within months on King's Landing, as Illyrio is touting to Varys, is ludicrous, and it's set up as ludicrous within book one.
So yeah, the whole Dothraki alliance thing doesn't make any sense at all however you interpret it.
My only thought is that maybe Varys and Illyrio were using Drogo to conquer somewhere in Essos for whatever reason, which is much more reasonable than any attack on Westeros. That really isn't implied by what Illyrio says to Varys though - more the opposite.
The fact that "Aegon convinced them to ignore Daenerys" really needs to be explained in some way. Because it doesn't make sence, even if he is a Blackfyre, to not get that undefetable alliance.
They were trying to reach Dany in Meereen but couldn't because of the blockade. Gorys Edoryen suggested taking a contract against Dany to get passage, then once they'd arrived turning cloak to fight for her, but the LC (the least supportive of Young Griff's plan) said one broken contract was plenty. Griff's suggestion is to let Dany come to him instead of trying to get to her.
@@clownpendotfart What a precise answer. Thanks !
“I just wish that Griff was dead. Put a greataxe to his head.” -Daenerys Targaryen.
TYREK LANNISTER! HE DID THE THING!
Any update on Melys the Merchandise? 😅
The JonCon LongCon
i love your videos everything we could ask for in a youtuber
Is it young grief as in John conningtons trauma over loosing his reahgar so young and this boy is now living ghost of grief, that people like varis use to hurt John idk
“Your a Targaryen ‘Arry…”
I doubt the Lords would even see him as a true Blackfyre. Last time someone tried to use the Female Line as the way of inheritance... well, it didn't go very well.
i'm torn between purchased peasant and blackfyre. both are equally possible imo-it doesn't seem likely that the aegon from Rhaegar and Elia survived.
The animation style kinda reminds me of Home Movies 😂
As to why there’s confusion about Varys and Illyrio’s plan to install Viserys on the throne…I agree that the Young Griff plot line has changed since the first book, but if anything its changes hold up. They wanted to weaken Westeros with war, a tide of Dothraki and Essosi invaders with Viserys, so that when FAegon rocks up: he’s the ideal king and a better alternative. Before that, why did Varys weaken Westeros by turning Aerys against Rhaegar? He’s looking to install the then-infant Young Griff on the throne when he’s older, and he’s laying the groundwork for it. If his plans began to form around the time of say, the Defiance of Duskendale, Rhaegar succeeding in deposing Aerys does not aid Varys and Illyrio in any way. A righteous, moral, kind-spirited king has no reason to be overthrown. If FAegon is to be installed (or any Blackfyre, if that is Varys’s true allegiance and FAegon wasn’t born or conceived yet) then Varys must prevent Rhaegar succeeding Aerys at all costs. Even if that means a Baratheon takes the throne, it’s worth it and even increases FAegon’s chances of being well-received (as Robert, or his heirs, could “easily” be accused of being usurpers and pretenders once FAegon is around and known to Westeros). Varys planned to: run Aerys’s reign into the ground, invalidate Rhaegar, aid the opposition (Robert) and achieve a position of power in their new regime, then in turn drag down this new dynasty, then aid another Targaryen claimant who will pave a path of destruction to the Iron Throne, and finally as Targaryens are once again accepted in Westeros…run Viserys’s reign into the ground, (the Dothraki and his personality are beneficial here) so that Varys can introduce a miraculous, savior-like claimant with all the attributes of a proper king to Westeros and the Blackfyres will be unchallenged. At that point, I believe Varys desires and expects for the true Targaryens to be extinct. Daenerys would have been married to Drogo, and dead in the long term (according to Varys’s plans) and Viserys would die during FAegon’s invasion, and Varys knows the real Aegon and Rhaenys (children of Rhaegar) are long dead. Of course, Jon Snow’s birth and Daenerys hatching the dragons were completely unforeseen by Varys (and the former event is still unknown to him). This is what I’ve gathered, it’s not confirmed but those are the dots I’ve connected. Narratively, I’m sure the “plan” has changed multiple times, and I think Martin alludes to that in the text (‘the fat man’s plans are always changing’).
If Young Griff isn't older than Aegon (and, if anything, Tyrion thought he was younger), then he wouldn't have been born when Varys went over to serve Aerys. Varys didn't have a replacement back then. Aegon was born after the tourney of Harrenhal. Varys was serving the king who hired him by accurately informing him of what people were up to. He was not trying to "weaken Westeros" when he argued against opening the gates to Tywin, he was doing his job more honestly than he would later under Robert.
I feel like Varys was turning Aerys against Rhaegar just because he was easy to manipulate and retain his power. Aerys invited Varys to court BECAUSE he felt he couldn’t trust Rhaegar, why would Varys try to reconcile them or make the King see reason? He wouldn’t believe him. He’s already losing his mind, might as well make the most of it and retain his influence on the throne. If Rhaegar took over, not a chance in Hell would Varys be staying at court. I personally believe (F)Aegon is a Blackfyre from his mother and Illyrio’s son, and it’s only when Illyrio’s wife dies, she makes a dying plea to put (F)Aegon on the throne and Varys switches up his plan from “maintain status quo” to “cause chaos in realm and install (F)Aegon.” I mean Varys under Aerys was no more disloyal and self-interested than the rest of the Small Council, it’s only under Robert he truly does actively harmful things for the Realm’s stability.
@@MT-iw6sl You believe Varys is Illyrio's son? How old is Illyrio?
Not only was Varys not "no more disloyal and self-interested", per Pycelle he was more loyal/competent in advising Aerys not to open KL's gates to Tywin. And of course, if he'd scheming to help Rhaegar overthrow Aerys, that would have made him less loyal to the king he was working for.
@@clownpendotfart The exact ages are never stated, but Illyrio should be in his late 40’s or early 50’s, and Young Griff around 18-20, perfectly reasonable age gap. I believe Young Griff is Illyrio and Serra’s son (or, at the least, Serra’s son) since Illyrio was by no means a “young man” when he became truly powerful, so they would’ve been married when Illyrio was in his late 20’s or early-mid 30’s. Again, perfectly reasonable age gaps. And yes, my point from before is Varys being “disloyal” during Aerys wasn’t really true. He whispered in his ear to keep his influence over Aerys and “turned” him against Rhaegar because Rhaegar would’ve wanted Varys gone. Rhaegar DID want his father gone, but Varys made it much harder to isolate and remove him. I 100% believe it was Varys who told Aerys to go to the Tourney at Harrenhal and thwart any plan, alleged or real, by Rhaegar to gather the lords and overthrow Aerys. During the war, he was loyal to Aerys and had no intention of opening Kings Landing to Robert or Tywin. Pycelle was the exception on the counsel, massively favoring the Lannisters and lying to Aerys while Varys knew there was nothing he could do and got tf outta danger. He was distant enough to not be severely punished by the Usurper and retained influence, tho diminished, at court. Now Illyrio’s son (or just Serra’s) is grown, groomed to be something grand, and Varys is a powerful whisperer at court. If Serra was a Blackfyre or descendent Blackfyre,(Serra IS a name seen among Targaryens), that gives Illyrio all the more reason to give his (or Serra’s) son the world. George said it himself, he LOVES writing about the human heart in conflict with itself. Giving Illyrio and Varys a vague reason of “restoring the rightful monarch to Westeros” isn’t convincing, but having Varys and Illyrio work tirelessly to enthrone Young Griff and honor Serra’s memory? That is a valid reason why Illyrio, a cheese merchant from Essos, would want anything to do with Westeros.
@@MT-iw6sl I misread your earlier comment as saying Varys rather than Young Griff was Illyrio's son.
Aerys was against Rhaegar even before Varys came over. He thought Tywin was plotting to crown Rhaegar at Duskendale, and sent Steffon Baratheon to find Rhaegar a bride in Essos without any familial powerbase in Essos. It was only after Steffon died (and Aerys thought Tywin somehow caused the storm that sank his ship) that he recruited Varys.
How does having a personal/familial stake in Young Griff becoming king constitute "the human heart in conflict with itself"? How are they conflicted?
I think Varys made the mistake of making FAegon too honourable and too connected to Westeros. I think Daenerys will expose him as a Blackfyre, but marry him nonetheless, because black or red... the House of the Dragon remains the House of the Dragon.
Ergo...one of the lies she will slay is the one of the fake division between the Blackfyres and the Targaryens. Basically putting the blame on people like Varys, Tywin, the entire house Peake, the Hightowers/Oldtown/the Citadel for always trying to cause a civil war amongst the ruling family.
The unfortunate problem with this is that 1. That would work too well Dany shows up and doesn't have to do anything other than marry the guy who already won the Throne. 2. George has stated that there is going to be a Dance of Dragons 2.0 meaning Dany is going to face off against either Jon (who is far North and has no current interest in the Iron Throne) or Faegon who will likely already be sitting on the Throne when she arrives.
@@mouse3872the second dance will be between Euron and Dany and company.
Do house karstark or umber please
Can the real Blackfire please stand up ? Please stand up, please stand up...
Illyrio Mopatis and Young not a Blackfyre Griff the wholesome father son duo. I wonder if one or both die will the get one last moment together. Not to mention how impressive Illyrio and Varys story is.
But he should win with The Sword of Kings in his hand🗡
I'd still prefer if he was actually a targ but this is probably the most likely
Is there a book about Blackfire rebellion?
Wonder if Jon Connigton will ever find out the truth about Aegon or the truth about Jon Snow. In any case Aegon is so dead that I can’t see a specific way for him to die, there are so many ways that I really can’t say. Hopefully he won’t die a virgin cause he’ll do something with Elia Sand before he exits the game, at least he’ll have that
Most involve fire.
The only out I see is if Blackfyre, the sword, is introduced
And that only gets him to Team Dawn
I hope Young Griff will be the son of Rahegar and Lyanna, raised by Connington, his father´s friend, Haldon Halfmaestre, Winterfell´s maestre before Catelyn brought Luwin from Riverrum, and Septa Lemore(Ashara Dayne) who traded her own son Jon Snowto save Lyanna´s son due to his Targaryen features. It doesn´t mean he´s not a Blackfyre because Rahegar was married to Elia when he was conceived.
The true Prince that was promised. Aegon the Sixth my king!!!!
What we should really be asking is if Tyrek is a Blackfyre
Just had to bring up world renowned Kentucky Derby winner Tyrell Lannister
Not Tyrek as a horse 💀💀
If this is a black fire rebellion, then I don’t understand how they’re gonna take the throne and not worry about Daenerys coming with her dragons i’m taking her rightful throne from her usurper Blackfire cousins
well... they could just keep lying say hes a Targ then when she pulls up he marrys her. boom both of them get the throne and he gets a dragon
Varys moment
Took me this many videos to notice the lack of arms. 😕 smh. 😅
Why do you depict Varys as having purple eyes? He's never said to have those. It would be hard for him to masquerade as commoners like Rugen the gaoler if he had such unique eyes.
How would Illyrio have obtained Edric Storm? Andrew Estermont and some others are all looking after him in Lys.
Varys had no connections to people in Westeros until Aerys hired him. And, per Jaime, Rhaegar apparently did have plans to change things once the war was over, so Varys was doing his job by informing his boss of such machinations.
It's not a "false flag attack" unless it wasn't actually Viserys, but you don't seem to be claiming that. It could be a stalking horse for potential Targaryen loyalists, or a shaping operation setting the stage for further military operations.
We know for a fact no one is descended from Bittersteel & Calla, because GRRM said they had no children.
If anyone was still sticking up for descendants of female Blackfyres, how could said descendants have wound up slaves? And once enslaved, why would anyone believe any claimed lineage from them?
The blacksmiths of Qohor use blood magic for their rituals. It's never claimed that such blood must be royal. Dany woke dragon eggs after burning Mirri Maz Duur and the corpse of Khal Drogo, but the former never claimed any political position and the latter was merely one of a number of Dothraki warlords (receiving his injury from a peer).
This is why Martin takes so long to write the next book the story needs an one time in a century power brain to finish it.
He doesn't have that brain, and can't finish his story. We should have listened to his preface to DRReamsongs, in which he said his career with littered with the corpses of abandoned series.
Or… and hear me out here… mermaids.
Im rooting for the Blackfyre kid
God I hope griff becomes king
i think young griff is the son of lyanna and Rheaghar and septa lamore is ashara dayne, jon starks mother
I think it’s possible Varys is a descendant of Sierra Targaryen,.
I think hes a targeryen but ut doesn't matter since winds wont be out for a lomg time
Blackfyre's are the true lords!
Bloodraven will NOT have any of that lol
What if Viserys is his father with the septa or a lady descended from the blackfyres as the mother.
Wow the influence of the show really shows here. Vis and young Griff are 7 years apart. How randy do you think Vis is?
@@davidlewis5312 Ik in the books it would be impossible but for the show it would fit
@@davidlewis5312 besides Vis died at 29 are you sure he didn't have heirs.
Like there are records of other Targaryens not Blackfyres mind you eg Maelor Targaryen.
Maybe thats why Vis never married Daenerys cause he had a marriage pact with another noble family and was waiting for the khalasar to bolster his army.
I'm not really inclined to believe that Vis was stupid as people make him out to be.
He's actions in the first book stem from desperation no stupidity.
I feel he had a plan with Illyrio and if anyone can point us to a Vis child it's Illyrio.
Also i feel Aegon Blackfyre is privy to this and understands more about dragons hence why he chose not ally with Daenerys in Essos.
Maybe George uses Tyrion as the third head or introduces a third Targaryen from Viserys's line.
It would be poetic.
Rhaegal being ridden by Aegon Targaryen(Jon)
Viserion being ridden by a child of Viserys.
My favorite theory is that Griff is just… Some Random Guy, a person we may Never know the true identity of
I think part of what is keeping winds of winter so long is the fact that grrm would want to drop a second fire and blood history book to heavy foreshadow things happening in winds of winter. And it would make sense even more so if his point is to make aegon the sixth really a blackfyre. Maybe faegon was switched. Just not from a Targaryen but from a blackfyre before being shipped off somewhere
Whoever he is, I don't think anyone sees his role to be long-lived. The bigger conundrum is why was he even introduced, so late in the story. It seemed to be just one of those George things, of being unable to stop inflating the cast and writing more characters plots and sub-sub plots of plots in the fifth book of the seven book series. I don't think Daenerys will actually try to rule the seven kingdoms, (because she is currently learning it's all bullshit) so I don't expect a direct competition with Faegon about it, but even so I don't see how he could become an important character and stay around for much longer.
Best guess is that Dany's invasion was supposed to be ADWD per the pitch letter, but she wasn't ready yet so he's going to fulfill that plot instead.
In the House of the Undying in book two, some of the visions Daenerys has foreshadows Young Griff, like the cloth dragon. So GRRM was probably already intending to introduce him then.
I think George always intended to introduce him. What I think changed was that at the time of the first couple of books, Young Griff was intended to be a descendant of Aerion Brightflame. The Blackfyres are clearly something George thought of later down the track.
Aegon is Alpharius.
I think it would be very interesting if aegon is a blackfyre but doesnt know and is going to be shocked if he finds out
In this world, it's nonsense to talk about who is the rightful ruler while Dany still has dragons and a sound head on her shoulders. If that remains the case, for the good of the people (remember them?) she and Aegon/Faegon/whomever should get married. Assuming he is stable and competent, he could handle domestic affairs, with the help of Varys and his relative (?) and ally Jon, King of the North. Dany and her dragons can handle defence and foreign affairs, which she seem to like. Jon and Dany could hang around from time to time, and he could sire her children, if she's capable of having them. It's all in the family. Peace is what Westeros needs, and a stable arrangement like thiis could give it to them.
Why would Elia martell accept her son to be saved alone dooming his sister rhaenys to a certain face