As a budget EDH player and someone who loves precons, I always appreciate your take on these decks. Shame the print quality is a bit of a miss, but I'm a sucker for artifact themes and old border. I'd bet you're probably getting sick of doing commander deck reviews every 8 weeks but it's greatly appreciated!
These videos are usually the deciding factor in which deck to buy, if any. He was spot on with the Warhammer ones, the Strixhaven ones, the AFR ones. No regrets.
I agree but I don't know if it's a problem. It's an iconic matchup that should be familiar with players across different eras of magic. Two precons is fairly affordable, they seem both interesting and balanced, and you can play them 1 vs 1 or in a group with other precons. Could the financial value have been better? I guess, but I won't be breaking up my set so it's not really an issue for me. Happy to take them as they are.
@@gaebril131 ohh the problem is not with this product, i really like it. It's with the actual 30, aniverdary products. Both then official 1k usd proxies and the secret lair that was pretty dope actually but sold out in less than an hour mostly to bots and resellers
Hey Prof, what if you made a video showing all the products you’ve ever given an A and all that you’ve given an E (or the lowest grade if it’s not an E) and show what Wizards had done absolutely right or absolutely wrong? I think it would be very interesting to know in this great lifespan.
@@jefff3023 Depends on your school district, even in the states. When I was a kid I went to a public school in Chicago where they used ABCDE, then moved to Boston where it was ABCDF, and I've also seen EGSU (excellent, good, satisfactory, unsatisfactory)
I was gonna say, the fact that many of these will probably never be printed like this again is gonna make these decks shoot up in price eventually when they're done printing them.
@@DINGTAN1 agreed. if money lines up, this would be slid to get multiples. So many staples in old border. Sol Ring is a dollar card, fanncy versions are usually severl dollars.
I bought both. Going to combine them with Breya as commander. Fortunately my LGS was selling them for $35 preorder and $40 normally so I felt it was worth it
I too bought both and was thinking about putting them together with a bunch of stuff from the Necron deck, Trazyn might get even more broken with these decks
@@phoenixraven5692 What’s that even supposed to mean. “How dare y’all buy things that make you happy”. Would you prefer I spend the $40 on 6 beers over the weekend? Besides, it’s supporting my local game store, not like I’m giving it to Amazon.
Love these reviews, I have saved myself a significant amount of money just buying singles now and avoiding Precons and Booster boxes ... wait a couple of months and most cards are cheaper., thanks, Prof 😊
My boyfriend and I got them on release day as duo pack for $70. He got Mishra and I got Urza. Urza has destroyed the Mishra deck every single time so we really haven't seen what the Mishra deck is capable of. Planning on playing it against Coven counters and other pre-cons so we can see what it does. Either way I love them. I just got into MTG in September so I'm still learning a whole lot. The retro boarders aren't a pro or a con to me since I'm so new.
Welcome! Learning can seem like an uphill battle, but as someone who's been playing since I'd wager before you were born, you'll meet some of the best friends of your life through the game!
see, ive found the opposite. I swapped in ashnod since i think the deck is slightly better set up for her. so far its 2 W 1 L vs Urza. They are decent enough decks, and they have some nice goodies for artifacts
I picked both of these up at my local game store and I absolutely love these decks. Something about having a deck for Urza and Mishra in the classic border really does it for me. I will only upgrade these with other old border cards.
I actually really enjoy the mishra deck that I bought. It's one of the smoothest playing decks out of the box of any commander precon that I've ever bought, and I've had precons from almost every year. I am keeping the deck in all old border so I've only replaced about seven or so cards, and replaced all the signets with my Dan Fraizer ones, and Mishra is one of my most recent favourites for edh decks.
First: pretty excited for these love the retro border(even if the execution here was questionable) love that Mishra finally has solid commander cards that don't require weird gimmicks. Second: I wonder if they're trying to factor the little mini pack thing into the value of pre-cons, it would explain why the value has generally been going down while the price is creeping up. Either that or they really did intend these to be 20$ pre-cons but they didn't want to put a cool print gimmick in the lower cost decks or compete with the beginner decks they have coming out in a bit here.
Deep speculation: These were probably designed as $20 decks, boosted to $45 when they thought of the old frames, wouldve been $100+ “Special Collector Edition” if they had no plan for the 30th Anniversary packs.
@@clashtwo5066 That's kinda what I was thinking, or else somewhere in the product design chain they put the retro borders on them, because it's urza and mishra, but then they worried having this "extra value" in the 20$ pre-cons would beg the question of why they won't do anything special for the 40 er 45 dollar pre-cons.
I dont play Magic, but I love watching the professor's reviews. With that said, it feels like mtg releases commander decks way too often. I swear I watched the latest review for commander decks like 2 weeks ago! Still love these videos, keep it up prof!
"But see, those were for the SPECIAL decks. These... well, they're special too, they're just not...as special?" Also, no joke, those decks are not $45 anymore...
@@redbirdriot Ha jokes on you, I live in Britain and have managed to purchase my warhammer decks for around $42, Make America Great (British) Again. But yeah I think basically everyone is selling them at like $65, I've seen some pushing close to $100 it's crazy.
I got to play these two decks with my brother last night. Short summary is that they were a blast. I agree that if I had to pick which was stronger, Mishra's made a bit more of an impression, but they both seemed balanced and well built, and I would enjoy buying both to own for myself. I sadly agree about the failure foe the reto frames. They were really dark, and it was bad enough that it made lands and artifacts hard to distinguish from one another, but even worse was that the artifact creatures who had a color shared the exact same border as a non-artifact creature with that same color. Both of us had to actively reread card types to verify if a colored spell was an artifact or not (nowadays colored artifacts have a bit of white-wash to distinguish). REALLY fun decks though, and great reviews, Professor!
We actually liked the darker retro frame art as it complimented quite a bit of the art, I guess experiences are different but this is the best precon set they've released in terms of quality imo. The foils for us weren't pringled out of the box (or for any of our customers) and the cards look and played beautifully.
I wonder if it has to do with which printers Prof's LGS typically gets their product from. I know the same thing happened to me with the Warhammer 40k decks where he was showing a lot of quality mishaps with the decks he got, but I didn't experience any problems at all. I know that the Japan printers are probably the best ones that I know about, which is why I'm happy knowing that the BW Set Box I bought was printed from the Japan printers
foils curling is the function of humidity difference between where you live (where the cards were stored) and where theyvwere printed. you may be in luck or prof lives somewhere humid. comparing printed colors of contemporary cards and old ones does not give justice those new ones. we are used to the old ones being lighter because ink bleaches in time exposed to air and sunlight. on the other hand they could have made new print lighter to match old prints...
@lindmorn5909 Personal experience lol. We're a WPN and have shipped out and sold hundreds of these. We haven't had a single complaint, and also see them opened in store often. How about you consider your opinion just as irrelevant as everyone elses? ;)
This seem worth it if you want to play them as is or like the three colors, since the mana base seems like a decent start. For me, I'm gonna take a break from buying commander decks for a while and just play the ones I already own lol.
I think both decks are a great starting point for anyone who hasn't dug into the artifact archetype yet. Had a chance to play Urza this week and wow, gameplay value on just the commander is stellar. I think you're right that Mishra has a higher shenanigans ceiling with his effects (especially with modifications), but the constant stream of beefy, menacing constructs from Urza, plus his easy recast-ability, means he kinda just works no matter what the rest of your board looks like. Sometimes players are too clever by half and having a few 13/13 constructs smashing into them makes their intricate combo plans meaningless.
I would love longer videos going over each card in more detail but I know the 10 minute videos are the sweet spot on youtube for viewer retention. Thank you and keep up the good work!
I sadly think that this printing issue is only for the American Printings. Here in Europe (at least, the ones we got in my store) the printing is Amazing! I really love how they fells and how they look, plus NO curving in any type of card. I was left really speechless about how much i liked them.
I was looking forward to this so much. This is the only channel I go to for Magic reviews. I was nervous, because I am sucker for the retro frames and nostalgia flavour, but I'm glad my wife and I can sit down and ram some creatures together this winter.
My local game shop is running a "Buy 2, Get 2 Free" sale on Commander decks, so I picked up 2 of each of these decks. I couldn't pass up that deal, and I'm looking forward to trying them out!
I wish they'd just go back to the older frames, or at least as a base and then make any needed tweaks like expanding the rules/flavor text box. It's been ...almost 20 years since Mirrodin and the new frames (plus tweaks here and there) and they still just don't look or feel right to me . Now, I know that will never happen, and it will still just be special products or variants that get retro frames...but... This old man still likes to yell at clouds sometimes
With advances in technology and other challenges humanity has overcome in the last 30 year I’d like to think our ability to improve cardboard quality can match 30 year old technology and methodologies.
I wish they would fix the curling already :( I hate that I feel I really can't buy products packed with foils that I would love to normally buy but I despise playing with because of the curling cards. Even more sad that they have been doing these really cool old border treatments and most of the time they are packed with foils which would normally be awesome but it drives me away because they won't focus on fixing this disastrous issue.
@@rhysjones1108 they typically only stay flat temporarily in my experience. I've done a few methods on my strixhaven foils to see, and was sorting cards the other day, took my stx foils out of the hard cases and they curled up to day 1 standards. It's frustrating to say the least.
My shop had these on sale for 60$ if you bought the pair, so I figured for that price I could at least part these out into other decks after getting a couple casual games in. However after playing around with both of them I've found that they're considerably more fun to play out of the box than I've experienced with most set commander pairs. The style and flavor of these classic characters in an all-retro deck is pretty sweet, even if the print quality is pretty bad and the colored artifacts can be a bit of a tracking headache. I might keep these intact for casual pickup games and just order a couple extra copies of the new cards I may want from these for other decks. Also, I find the fact that Mishra's deck is the more nuanced, less combat-centric deck of the two hilarious.
I the mishra deck will be the first dip in to commander for me. I like the flavor and it seems like it fits with the random stuff I've picked up in drafts over the years.
Always love these videos, you have an excellent take and normally never miss on quality or gameplay. I typically buy every precon available, but your reviews allow me to decide which one I want to open, modify, or play first!
What’s crazy is… my commander deck cards are SO DARK! But the print quality in the cards I got in my set booster box was WAY lighter. I don’t understand.
Different printers likely. It wouldn't be a reach in my mind to assume that the precons are printed at a different facility, but it also seems to me from quality differences that wotc probably pays a lower rate for lower quality printing on decks vs boosters.
I really appreciate two things about your content: 1. The recommendations of what is and is not worth the money; 2. Recommending spending at the local game store. I am a firm believer in supporting small business as much as I can. The guys who run my LGS offer me and other customers perks you cannot get from Amazon or a big box.
IT WAS GOOD SEEING YOU AT MTGSummit!! I was also hesitant to purchase this deck but as a EDH Main player I thought I’d grab something from MYGSummit while i was there, so I snagged the Urza deck. I was a little surprised by the design of all the cards, I don’t hate them but they’re okay. I wanted to see a little more power in it but I can’t complain too much as it’s set up pretty okay. I’ll be upgrading my Urza deck to make it a little bit harder hitting with a few low drop artifact creatures and some land upgrades to help the Urza affinity ability and the tokens power. Possibly also a few more win conditions in the deck as right now. It’s set up pretty good already however I’d like the Urza deck to be a little more powerful. Thanks for the read ❤️🔥
1 second in. Hopefully the answer to the question many Magic the Gathering players ask is "Yes" because I already bought both Commander decks since I love artifacts and enjoy the setting of the Brothers' War and old borders
11:40 slight audio repeat but as always thank you for your input Prof ! Can’t make any magic decisions without first listening to what the prof has to say !
I'm really happy with the print quality on both of my decks, it's sad that they aren't consistent. I was really happy with how both of these decks played at my LGS on commander night. Mishra's deck in particular has a few really nasty combo's able to entirely freeze someone out of the game. My playgroup thought that Mishra's deck was particularly oppressive. I agree that these were a little spendy (Ended up being ~$120CAD for both), but I'm happy having a lot of good commander staples in old border.
I actually think those prints the best quality. Slightly stronger contrast and no green tint. I'm not even usually a fan of the old style but think they look great all together!
I so look forward to these videos. Even if I'm not interested to buy the product it's a great way to see where Wizards stands in terms of quality product and pricing. Your insights are ageless, professor.
Thanks for the video, Professor. I am new to MTG so this was really helpful. Cant wait to see your opinion about the starter decks that are coming in December. Keep up the great work!
Thanks for keeping up the good fight, Prof. I've been sort of defaulting to ignoring the dozen+ Commander decks Wizards releases each year now, but this video made me resolve to look for the prices on these to drop and pick up a pair.
I personally love these decks. I don't usually buy precons and my interest in commander had cooled down a lot lately but these decks game me a really fun restriction to build around, make the most powerful artifact deck with only cards avalible in the retro frame. The print quality of the ones i got were very good (maybe the ones in europe were from another factory?) but i do agree that specifically the lands were a lot darker than "the real thing" which is a real bummer. Also, congratulations on your first win on Game Knights! I hope you and Josh get over your grudge eventually.
I bought this straight up for the retro treatment, and I thought Urza was super fun. I made a few card swaps but kept it budget. Great example of a fun product celebrating Magic's history. I thought the same thing while sleeving these up, they looked super dark, but the card stock at least feels good.
I appreciate how you described the pilot skill level. I often teach newer players. Having played both straight out of the box, Mishra’s synergy was my favorite, but I agree that Urza was easier for new players.
This video is exactly what I needed to help me resist the temptation to buy these, especially since the main reason I wanted them was the old frame treatment. Thanks prof!
In WOTC's "defense", the print quality being lacking is the most retro thing of all, though if they really wanted to nail that vibe, they should have erred on the side of too washed out, rather than too saturated. *glares in Ice Age/Fallen Empires/Homelands* That said, these were an immediate pickup for me. Print quality or no, reprint value or no, the concept of this essentially being "Duel Decks: Urza vs. Mishra," and having two full retro Commander decks out of the box, just sang to my inner 15-year-old, newly learning the game.
It's weird that some of the land frames are too dark and others are fine although very saturated. From the video, the artifacts look more like actual old card colors than the secret lair ones. They had fixed color and saturation issues by Tempest, so I would prefer new retro frames to look exactly like post-Tempest cards.
Yes, these are worth it. Used urza in my commander night Tuesday and it was super fun. Fun. Ya know. The point of the game. It slaps and is super good out of the box for beginners and sweaty neck beards.
Faults aside, I LOVE that some of my favorite cards now are available with the retro frames and artwork. I'm going to buy both decks and keep them stock.
I really like that they're doing the old borders. Might pick one of these up, or just get some of the singles for cool new (old looking) versions of cards I already use.
I just got the Mishra precon and was amazed at the quality of the reprints and construction of the deck. Picked it up for staples but it's become the first precon I leave as is.
Bought one literally last night after lookign to see if this video was out, I thought the Mishra looked fun, even if the old frame card arent quite up to the look I think they are just a fun different bunch of cards to use but I also have a young persons eyes so contrast is less of an issue. Excited to get my hands on the cards hopefully I can find a local play group.
Dang it Doc... I preordered set boxes and 1 of each commander deck last week. I just so happen to stumble upon your video and even before watching, I am shaking my head and face palm man. I really hope you shed some good light on these decks. I'll continue watching your video to see how it all shakes out, thanks Professor.
For what it’s worth I bought both from my FLGS on pre-release and IMHO I think they a) play really well, b) have some great cards and c) look the mutts nuts (awesome). Plus I feel sure the value of the singles will be higher than normal due to the one off borders. Honestly I think you’ll be really happy once you’ve got them on the table :)
@@ashsayyed I appreciate your honest feedback and positivity. I can definitely understand and agree on your reply. Once I have the commander decks in my hands and get some quality game time with each, I have a feeling that you are right, I will be satisfied overall in the end. I won't regret the purchase. I like that the decks do offer a good chance for growth and upgrades, so you can add your own flavor to them. I'll be stopping by my LGS tomorrow and pick up my pre order. Looking forward to it. I'm sure tomorrow evening, I will have a different and more positive opinion about the Brothers War commander decks. Thanks again and I hope you enjoy yours as well. Cheers! 🙂
In Australia with our biggest tcg retailer GoodGame, theyre selling these for 30 to 40 dollars cheaper than the usual Commander Deck upon the release. And for that price, I find it to be a fantastic purchase, also personally I just love the aesthetic of old border in darker colouring, and artifacts! Who doesnt like artifacts?
I love when the Professor can be excited about something, or at least pleasantly surprised. It's so painful to watch him have to rail against bad MTG products, you can tell he hates doing it even though he has to if he wants to be honest.
Prof you asked Wotc for more low cost cards and to get rid of higher value singles in decks for more valueless chaff, it's so nice to see Wotc finally listening to you.
I just got in to Magic two weeks ago now and have the Mishra Precon per my game store’s recommendation. Can confirm it’s tricky to figure this deck out.
I haven't found a precon commander deck under 40$ since the zendikar ones from a couple years ago, crimson vow on have all been at that 40 and up mark at launch
Loving the Urza deck it plays really well and for me being a newer player to magic I found was really easy to manage! The Brothers War set has been my favorite so far!!!
Hey Prof, just wanted to say another nice and informative video, get that algorithm going. Oh and you miss wrote "eliminate" (3:55) on one of your slides :D
Given the value is already high on Mishra's, I think we're ignoring the fact that many of those reprints are widely used and will be sought for singles due to the nature of the old frame print run. These will definitely rise in value once OOP.
Love your stuff man keep up the great work love yourself man keep up the great work thank you for taking time out of your day to make a video for me to watch
I got to play against the Urza deck this week at my LGS. Noone else was playing a pre-con and the Urza deck was pretty competitive and often pretty scary if Urza was left unchecked. For the Urza deck at least, it's totally fine out of the box and while I do agree with the printing issues and the price-point, the deck *definitely* played well.
I'm getting these just because I am pumped for the whole Phrexian story line, I might get 2 of the Urza one's because I want to make an Urza Planeswalker deck at some point. I might throw together a Yawgmoth and Titania, Voice of Gaea edh to make a full playset of brother's war / phyrexian invasion decks
I didn't think too much about comparing the old-border cards to the actual old cards for general print quality, but I definitely noticed how some of the cards I cracked during prerelease were noticably crooked and inconsistently positioned between copies of even the same card.
At this monetary value throw in a shock land or two into each of them :> I personally own all notable reprints in those, so this is hard skip for me. I might buy one or two singles though.
I bought the Urza deck and the FIRST thing I noticed was that the printings were darker for some reason. Even compared to the old borders in boosters. It's so bizarre
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Check out the Most Powerful New CommandersFrom The Brothers' War: ruclips.net/video/9W9Wh5UPiqo/видео.html
As a budget EDH player and someone who loves precons, I always appreciate your take on these decks. Shame the print quality is a bit of a miss, but I'm a sucker for artifact themes and old border. I'd bet you're probably getting sick of doing commander deck reviews every 8 weeks but it's greatly appreciated!
I got the Urza one because I love me some artifacts
Yeah...I got both. They just look like fun and I love getting back into artifacts, one of my favorite things from when I first played Magic.
@@redbirdriot There's a lot of cool Artifacts in Brother's War too, I've got a Wurmcoil and Mycosynth Lattice I will add to Urza's deck
These videos are usually the deciding factor in which deck to buy, if any. He was spot on with the Warhammer ones, the Strixhaven ones, the AFR ones. No regrets.
A good artifact deck is inherently expensive an artifact precon would never be on the highest power compared to other precons
This is the closest WOTC has come this year to a proper 30th aniversary product.
This comment made me unexpectedly depressed in its truth.
Yes brother!
I agree but I don't know if it's a problem. It's an iconic matchup that should be familiar with players across different eras of magic. Two precons is fairly affordable, they seem both interesting and balanced, and you can play them 1 vs 1 or in a group with other precons. Could the financial value have been better? I guess, but I won't be breaking up my set so it's not really an issue for me. Happy to take them as they are.
My vote is cast for dominaria remastered
@@gaebril131 ohh the problem is not with this product, i really like it. It's with the actual 30, aniverdary products. Both then official 1k usd proxies and the secret lair that was pretty dope actually but sold out in less than an hour mostly to bots and resellers
Hey Prof, what if you made a video showing all the products you’ve ever given an A and all that you’ve given an E (or the lowest grade if it’s not an E) and show what Wizards had done absolutely right or absolutely wrong? I think it would be very interesting to know in this great lifespan.
Ummm, wouldn't the lowest grade be a F?? What country do you live in where they hand out E's?
@@jefff3023 Depends on your school district, even in the states. When I was a kid I went to a public school in Chicago where they used ABCDE, then moved to Boston where it was ABCDF, and I've also seen EGSU (excellent, good, satisfactory, unsatisfactory)
An anual video with the year's A and S grade products
"New coat of old paint" was a brilliant turn of phrase, Prof. 👍
I think the old border Command Tower in particular is going to age VERY well
I was gonna say, the fact that many of these will probably never be printed like this again is gonna make these decks shoot up in price eventually when they're done printing them.
Lithoform engine is one to get while it's cheap. And it looks great to me.
@@DINGTAN1 agreed. if money lines up, this would be slid to get multiples. So many staples in old border. Sol Ring is a dollar card, fanncy versions are usually severl dollars.
@@DINGTAN1 where have i heard this one from wotc before
Hey Professor, congrats on melding Mishra three times on Game Knigths and winning the game! 👏
How'd he meld him three times?
@@MoistFloppa it was on different turns. First Prof played him as usual, than recast after Mishra was removed and then it got bounced
I bought both. Going to combine them with Breya as commander. Fortunately my LGS was selling them for $35 preorder and $40 normally so I felt it was worth it
I too bought both and was thinking about putting them together with a bunch of stuff from the Necron deck, Trazyn might get even more broken with these decks
Literally what I did and now I feel I need 2 Breya decks 😂 one sacrifice and one artifact creature aggro!
Why are y'all buying mtg during a recession?
@@phoenixraven5692 What’s that even supposed to mean. “How dare y’all buy things that make you happy”. Would you prefer I spend the $40 on 6 beers over the weekend? Besides, it’s supporting my local game store, not like I’m giving it to Amazon.
Holy crap! My LGS hasn't done pre-order on Precons in years and is selling both for 50$
Love these reviews, I have saved myself a significant amount of money just buying singles now and avoiding Precons and Booster boxes ... wait a couple of months and most cards are cheaper., thanks, Prof 😊
My boyfriend and I got them on release day as duo pack for $70. He got Mishra and I got Urza. Urza has destroyed the Mishra deck every single time so we really haven't seen what the Mishra deck is capable of. Planning on playing it against Coven counters and other pre-cons so we can see what it does. Either way I love them.
I just got into MTG in September so I'm still learning a whole lot. The retro boarders aren't a pro or a con to me since I'm so new.
Mishra seems to have issues against go wide decks because it does have enough board presence.
Welcome! Learning can seem like an uphill battle, but as someone who's been playing since I'd wager before you were born, you'll meet some of the best friends of your life through the game!
see, ive found the opposite. I swapped in ashnod since i think the deck is slightly better set up for her. so far its 2 W 1 L vs Urza. They are decent enough decks, and they have some nice goodies for artifacts
Feels special to see soemeone talk about them starting to play mtg when the last few weeks I saw more people just leave the game
Welcome to the magic community:)
I picked both of these up at my local game store and I absolutely love these decks. Something about having a deck for Urza and Mishra in the classic border really does it for me. I will only upgrade these with other old border cards.
SAME
Same
Same
I actually really enjoy the mishra deck that I bought. It's one of the smoothest playing decks out of the box of any commander precon that I've ever bought, and I've had precons from almost every year. I am keeping the deck in all old border so I've only replaced about seven or so cards, and replaced all the signets with my Dan Fraizer ones, and Mishra is one of my most recent favourites for edh decks.
This is the correct answer!
As an ornithopter lover that retro one you pulled looks mighty fine.
First: pretty excited for these love the retro border(even if the execution here was questionable) love that Mishra finally has solid commander cards that don't require weird gimmicks.
Second: I wonder if they're trying to factor the little mini pack thing into the value of pre-cons, it would explain why the value has generally been going down while the price is creeping up. Either that or they really did intend these to be 20$ pre-cons but they didn't want to put a cool print gimmick in the lower cost decks or compete with the beginner decks they have coming out in a bit here.
Deep speculation: These were probably designed as $20 decks, boosted to $45 when they thought of the old frames, wouldve been $100+ “Special Collector Edition” if they had no plan for the 30th Anniversary packs.
@@clashtwo5066 That's kinda what I was thinking, or else somewhere in the product design chain they put the retro borders on them, because it's urza and mishra, but then they worried having this "extra value" in the 20$ pre-cons would beg the question of why they won't do anything special for the 40 er 45 dollar pre-cons.
Personally, I wish the entire set of Brother’s War had alternate retro frame versions.
Agree on that. Although I'm not the biggest fan of artifact sets, the nostalgia alone would have had me bought some Booser Boxes.
the set packs i got had retro frames on the artifacts for some
I liked the Retro Urza, CA until I saw the Modern one. Even though I started playing in '96, those modern frames can really look amazing.
I dont play Magic, but I love watching the professor's reviews. With that said, it feels like mtg releases commander decks way too often. I swear I watched the latest review for commander decks like 2 weeks ago!
Still love these videos, keep it up prof!
Yeah commander decks for every set and yearly commander decks is a lot of decks.
It's always good to have choices, and for the collectors who have a hard time buying each one, it's not the worst problem to have.
Remember when we got 42 new cards in each warhammer 40k deck for like $45? It was like 5 weeks ago.
"But see, those were for the SPECIAL decks. These... well, they're special too, they're just not...as special?"
Also, no joke, those decks are not $45 anymore...
Wait were they ever $45? The lowest I saw starting off was $60. That being said, it was still a ton of new cards
Those warhammer decks were always more than the other commander decks though.
Hey, yeah! I 'member that!
@@redbirdriot Ha jokes on you, I live in Britain and have managed to purchase my warhammer decks for around $42, Make America Great (British) Again. But yeah I think basically everyone is selling them at like $65, I've seen some pushing close to $100 it's crazy.
I got to play these two decks with my brother last night. Short summary is that they were a blast. I agree that if I had to pick which was stronger, Mishra's made a bit more of an impression, but they both seemed balanced and well built, and I would enjoy buying both to own for myself. I sadly agree about the failure foe the reto frames. They were really dark, and it was bad enough that it made lands and artifacts hard to distinguish from one another, but even worse was that the artifact creatures who had a color shared the exact same border as a non-artifact creature with that same color. Both of us had to actively reread card types to verify if a colored spell was an artifact or not (nowadays colored artifacts have a bit of white-wash to distinguish). REALLY fun decks though, and great reviews, Professor!
We actually liked the darker retro frame art as it complimented quite a bit of the art, I guess experiences are different but this is the best precon set they've released in terms of quality imo. The foils for us weren't pringled out of the box (or for any of our customers) and the cards look and played beautifully.
Ditto :)
I wonder if it has to do with which printers Prof's LGS typically gets their product from. I know the same thing happened to me with the Warhammer 40k decks where he was showing a lot of quality mishaps with the decks he got, but I didn't experience any problems at all. I know that the Japan printers are probably the best ones that I know about, which is why I'm happy knowing that the BW Set Box I bought was printed from the Japan printers
foils curling is the function of humidity difference between where you live (where the cards were stored) and where theyvwere printed. you may be in luck or prof lives somewhere humid.
comparing printed colors of contemporary cards and old ones does not give justice those new ones. we are used to the old ones being lighter because ink bleaches in time exposed to air and sunlight. on the other hand they could have made new print lighter to match old prints...
@lindmorn5909 Personal experience lol. We're a WPN and have shipped out and sold hundreds of these. We haven't had a single complaint, and also see them opened in store often.
How about you consider your opinion just as irrelevant as everyone elses? ;)
@lindmorn5909 Much of the differences in quality depend on your location and humidity.
This seem worth it if you want to play them as is or like the three colors, since the mana base seems like a decent start. For me, I'm gonna take a break from buying commander decks for a while and just play the ones I already own lol.
I think both decks are a great starting point for anyone who hasn't dug into the artifact archetype yet. Had a chance to play Urza this week and wow, gameplay value on just the commander is stellar. I think you're right that Mishra has a higher shenanigans ceiling with his effects (especially with modifications), but the constant stream of beefy, menacing constructs from Urza, plus his easy recast-ability, means he kinda just works no matter what the rest of your board looks like.
Sometimes players are too clever by half and having a few 13/13 constructs smashing into them makes their intricate combo plans meaningless.
I've been in love with these precons since they announced the old border treatment, have ordered both of them ready to jam with!!
Already bought them, they are beautiful and I love the retro borders! I wish this whole set was retro border
I would love longer videos going over each card in more detail but I know the 10 minute videos are the sweet spot on youtube for viewer retention. Thank you and keep up the good work!
I sadly think that this printing issue is only for the American Printings. Here in Europe (at least, the ones we got in my store) the printing is Amazing! I really love how they fells and how they look, plus NO curving in any type of card. I was left really speechless about how much i liked them.
I was looking forward to this so much. This is the only channel I go to for Magic reviews. I was nervous, because I am sucker for the retro frames and nostalgia flavour, but I'm glad my wife and I can sit down and ram some creatures together this winter.
Prof! You do a great job! Thanks for always working hard for our entertainment~
My local game shop is running a "Buy 2, Get 2 Free" sale on Commander decks, so I picked up 2 of each of these decks. I couldn't pass up that deal, and I'm looking forward to trying them out!
Great video! ( really missed the music at the end though)
As a believer in old border superiority, it’s a shame the quality still isn’t up to the old standards.
I wish they'd just go back to the older frames, or at least as a base and then make any needed tweaks like expanding the rules/flavor text box. It's been ...almost 20 years since Mirrodin and the new frames (plus tweaks here and there) and they still just don't look or feel right to me . Now, I know that will never happen, and it will still just be special products or variants that get retro frames...but... This old man still likes to yell at clouds sometimes
Nothing is up to the old standards anymore 😢
Within reason, are the "old standards" still achievable? Literally still achievable?
With advances in technology and other challenges humanity has overcome in the last 30 year I’d like to think our ability to improve cardboard quality can match 30 year old technology and methodologies.
Old Border and new border are the same for me but the old work a lot of them are ugly
I wish they would fix the curling already :( I hate that I feel I really can't buy products packed with foils that I would love to normally buy but I despise playing with because of the curling cards. Even more sad that they have been doing these really cool old border treatments and most of the time they are packed with foils which would normally be awesome but it drives me away because they won't focus on fixing this disastrous issue.
They'll never fix this issu...
I know it’s a pain in the ass, but why not just flatten them out?
They’d need a steamroller for these foils to stay flat
@@rhysjones1108 they typically only stay flat temporarily in my experience. I've done a few methods on my strixhaven foils to see, and was sorting cards the other day, took my stx foils out of the hard cases and they curled up to day 1 standards. It's frustrating to say the least.
I actually really liked the dark retro frame, especially on the lands. I immediately looked at buying singles of the basics in these
Agreed 👍
My favorite part about these decks is the retro land base for pauper. The bounce land and artifact lands see so much play!
Thank You Professor for continuing to evaluate new Wizards of the Coast products.
My shop had these on sale for 60$ if you bought the pair, so I figured for that price I could at least part these out into other decks after getting a couple casual games in. However after playing around with both of them I've found that they're considerably more fun to play out of the box than I've experienced with most set commander pairs. The style and flavor of these classic characters in an all-retro deck is pretty sweet, even if the print quality is pretty bad and the colored artifacts can be a bit of a tracking headache. I might keep these intact for casual pickup games and just order a couple extra copies of the new cards I may want from these for other decks.
Also, I find the fact that Mishra's deck is the more nuanced, less combat-centric deck of the two hilarious.
I the mishra deck will be the first dip in to commander for me. I like the flavor and it seems like it fits with the random stuff I've picked up in drafts over the years.
Always love these videos, you have an excellent take and normally never miss on quality or gameplay. I typically buy every precon available, but your reviews allow me to decide which one I want to open, modify, or play first!
What’s crazy is… my commander deck cards are SO DARK! But the print quality in the cards I got in my set booster box was WAY lighter. I don’t understand.
Different printers likely. It wouldn't be a reach in my mind to assume that the precons are printed at a different facility, but it also seems to me from quality differences that wotc probably pays a lower rate for lower quality printing on decks vs boosters.
It's a great manabase if you wanna gut the main theme and use it to jump start a different deck in those colors
How is it a great mana base if it includes no fetches or shocks?
I really appreciate two things about your content: 1. The recommendations of what is and is not worth the money; 2. Recommending spending at the local game store.
I am a firm believer in supporting small business as much as I can. The guys who run my LGS offer me and other customers perks you cannot get from Amazon or a big box.
IT WAS GOOD SEEING YOU AT MTGSummit!!
I was also hesitant to purchase this deck but as a EDH Main player I thought I’d grab something from MYGSummit while i was there, so I snagged the Urza deck. I was a little surprised by the design of all the cards, I don’t hate them but they’re okay. I wanted to see a little more power in it but I can’t complain too much as it’s set up pretty okay.
I’ll be upgrading my Urza deck to make it a little bit harder hitting with a few low drop artifact creatures and some land upgrades to help the Urza affinity ability and the tokens power. Possibly also a few more win conditions in the deck as right now. It’s set up pretty good already however I’d like the Urza deck to be a little more powerful. Thanks for the read ❤️🔥
1 second in. Hopefully the answer to the question many Magic the Gathering players ask is "Yes" because I already bought both Commander decks since I love artifacts and enjoy the setting of the Brothers' War and old borders
11:40 slight audio repeat but as always thank you for your input Prof ! Can’t make any magic decisions without first listening to what the prof has to say !
I'm really happy with the print quality on both of my decks, it's sad that they aren't consistent. I was really happy with how both of these decks played at my LGS on commander night. Mishra's deck in particular has a few really nasty combo's able to entirely freeze someone out of the game. My playgroup thought that Mishra's deck was particularly oppressive. I agree that these were a little spendy (Ended up being ~$120CAD for both), but I'm happy having a lot of good commander staples in old border.
Congratulations on the winning at Command Zone's Game Knights. 🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉
Great video, informative and entertaining as always! You're the man Prof! Loved watching you win Game Knights with Mishra!!
Perfect timing as I’m likely picking one up at my lgs commander night tonight.
I actually think those prints the best quality. Slightly stronger contrast and no green tint. I'm not even usually a fan of the old style but think they look great all together!
I so look forward to these videos. Even if I'm not interested to buy the product it's a great way to see where Wizards stands in terms of quality product and pricing. Your insights are ageless, professor.
Thanks for the analysis! Also great job for winning on Commander Knights! Your deck was awesome
Nice job on GameKnights! You played a good game 👍
Thanks for the video, Professor. I am new to MTG so this was really helpful. Cant wait to see your opinion about the starter decks that are coming in December. Keep up the great work!
"This new coat of old paint" sounds like the title to the third track on the second album of a regionally popular indie band.
Thanks for keeping up the good fight, Prof. I've been sort of defaulting to ignoring the dozen+ Commander decks Wizards releases each year now, but this video made me resolve to look for the prices on these to drop and pick up a pair.
I personally love these decks. I don't usually buy precons and my interest in commander had cooled down a lot lately but these decks game me a really fun restriction to build around, make the most powerful artifact deck with only cards avalible in the retro frame. The print quality of the ones i got were very good (maybe the ones in europe were from another factory?) but i do agree that specifically the lands were a lot darker than "the real thing" which is a real bummer.
Also, congratulations on your first win on Game Knights! I hope you and Josh get over your grudge eventually.
Hey Prof! You have a typo of “ELEIMINATE” at the 3:56 mark. Also a spacing issue after “&” some minutes later.
Love your work, all the same!
I bought this straight up for the retro treatment, and I thought Urza was super fun. I made a few card swaps but kept it budget. Great example of a fun product celebrating Magic's history. I thought the same thing while sleeving these up, they looked super dark, but the card stock at least feels good.
I appreciate how you described the pilot skill level. I often teach newer players. Having played both straight out of the box, Mishra’s synergy was my favorite, but I agree that Urza was easier for new players.
After seeing you flip through them, I’m now going to buy both. I think the old borders look much cooler than I was expecting.
Thank you Professor. I always value and appreciate your thoughts and opinions.
I was waiting for this since weeks! I guess the important thing is having fun with this decks, regardless of their values
11:44 I noticed. Great video as always, Prof!
This video is exactly what I needed to help me resist the temptation to buy these, especially since the main reason I wanted them was the old frame treatment. Thanks prof!
In WOTC's "defense", the print quality being lacking is the most retro thing of all, though if they really wanted to nail that vibe, they should have erred on the side of too washed out, rather than too saturated. *glares in Ice Age/Fallen Empires/Homelands*
That said, these were an immediate pickup for me. Print quality or no, reprint value or no, the concept of this essentially being "Duel Decks: Urza vs. Mishra," and having two full retro Commander decks out of the box, just sang to my inner 15-year-old, newly learning the game.
It's weird that some of the land frames are too dark and others are fine although very saturated. From the video, the artifacts look more like actual old card colors than the secret lair ones. They had fixed color and saturation issues by Tempest, so I would prefer new retro frames to look exactly like post-Tempest cards.
Yes, these are worth it. Used urza in my commander night Tuesday and it was super fun. Fun. Ya know. The point of the game. It slaps and is super good out of the box for beginners and sweaty neck beards.
I got them because the decks looked really fun to play. And they are!
These decks were on holiday sale this year for 20€, snagged both of them and for that price point they're perfect
Faults aside, I LOVE that some of my favorite cards now are available with the retro frames and artwork. I'm going to buy both decks and keep them stock.
YOu played so well on Game Knights with Mishra. Taking on three opponents at once!
Alright in honor of the professor and all he's don't for us let's get this man to a million subscribers. OH CAPTAIN MY CAPTAIN
Thanks for the review. Just a heads up I noticed a few audio issues. Maybe watch it over and see if it's just me?
I really like that they're doing the old borders. Might pick one of these up, or just get some of the singles for cool new (old looking) versions of cards I already use.
I just got the Mishra precon and was amazed at the quality of the reprints and construction of the deck. Picked it up for staples but it's become the first precon I leave as is.
Bought one literally last night after lookign to see if this video was out, I thought the Mishra looked fun, even if the old frame card arent quite up to the look I think they are just a fun different bunch of cards to use but I also have a young persons eyes so contrast is less of an issue.
Excited to get my hands on the cards hopefully I can find a local play group.
Dang it Doc... I preordered set boxes and 1 of each commander deck last week. I just so happen to stumble upon your video and even before watching, I am shaking my head and face palm man. I really hope you shed some good light on these decks. I'll continue watching your video to see how it all shakes out, thanks Professor.
For what it’s worth I bought both from my FLGS on pre-release and IMHO I think they a) play really well, b) have some great cards and c) look the mutts nuts (awesome). Plus I feel sure the value of the singles will be higher than normal due to the one off borders.
Honestly I think you’ll be really happy once you’ve got them on the table :)
@@ashsayyed I appreciate your honest feedback and positivity. I can definitely understand and agree on your reply. Once I have the commander decks in my hands and get some quality game time with each, I have a feeling that you are right, I will be satisfied overall in the end. I won't regret the purchase. I like that the decks do offer a good chance for growth and upgrades, so you can add your own flavor to them.
I'll be stopping by my LGS tomorrow and pick up my pre order. Looking forward to it. I'm sure tomorrow evening, I will have a different and more positive opinion about the Brothers War commander decks.
Thanks again and I hope you enjoy yours as well. Cheers!
🙂
Thanks for the video! Sounds like this is one I can hold off on getting for a while.
In Australia with our biggest tcg retailer GoodGame, theyre selling these for 30 to 40 dollars cheaper than the usual Commander Deck upon the release.
And for that price, I find it to be a fantastic purchase, also personally I just love the aesthetic of old border in darker colouring, and artifacts!
Who doesnt like artifacts?
I love when the Professor can be excited about something, or at least pleasantly surprised. It's so painful to watch him have to rail against bad MTG products, you can tell he hates doing it even though he has to if he wants to be honest.
I got Mishra's Burnished Banner at MTG Summit and I really enjoy it. I'm going to keep it as a Precon
Saw the games knight show professor. Good Job!!! Lolz
11:57 anyone catch that? I like how you kept the ball rolling. That's great performance professor.
Prof you asked Wotc for more low cost cards and to get rid of higher value singles in decks for more valueless chaff, it's so nice to see Wotc finally listening to you.
I love that the new cards are tame. I DONT want more fierce guardianships or other cards print to be commander staples.
Love your tie. But niceties aparte, thanks for your opiniion of both commander decks
I was able to get Mishra with a set of DS Matte sleeves for £39.95 ($49.28) in a sale 🎉🎉
We need a deck tech of your mishria, claimed by Gix now
I just got in to Magic two weeks ago now and have the Mishra Precon per my game store’s recommendation. Can confirm it’s tricky to figure this deck out.
I haven't found a precon commander deck under 40$ since the zendikar ones from a couple years ago, crimson vow on have all been at that 40 and up mark at launch
Loving the Urza deck it plays really well and for me being a newer player to magic I found was really easy to manage! The Brothers War set has been my favorite so far!!!
Hey Prof, just wanted to say another nice and informative video, get that algorithm going. Oh and you miss wrote "eliminate" (3:55) on one of your slides :D
Given the value is already high on Mishra's, I think we're ignoring the fact that many of those reprints are widely used and will be sought for singles due to the nature of the old frame print run. These will definitely rise in value once OOP.
Great review as usual Professor. Thanks a lot!
I won the urza deck in a lucky giveaway drawing from my LGS during commander night. I plan on keeping the deck together, it looks awesome :)
Love your stuff man keep up the great work love yourself man keep up the great work thank you for taking time out of your day to make a video for me to watch
I got to play against the Urza deck this week at my LGS. Noone else was playing a pre-con and the Urza deck was pretty competitive and often pretty scary if Urza was left unchecked. For the Urza deck at least, it's totally fine out of the box and while I do agree with the printing issues and the price-point, the deck *definitely* played well.
I'm getting these just because I am pumped for the whole Phrexian story line, I might get 2 of the Urza one's because I want to make an Urza Planeswalker deck at some point. I might throw together a Yawgmoth and Titania, Voice of Gaea edh to make a full playset of brother's war / phyrexian invasion decks
I didn't think too much about comparing the old-border cards to the actual old cards for general print quality, but I definitely noticed how some of the cards I cracked during prerelease were noticably crooked and inconsistently positioned between copies of even the same card.
At this monetary value throw in a shock land or two into each of them :> I personally own all notable reprints in those, so this is hard skip for me. I might buy one or two singles though.
Thanks for everything, Prof!
I bought the Urza deck and the FIRST thing I noticed was that the printings were darker for some reason. Even compared to the old borders in boosters. It's so bizarre