Lossless Scaling Guide
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- Опубликовано: 30 июл 2024
- Program: store.steampowered.com/app/99...
Corrections: Ultra Quality is 1.3x, not 1.33x
In order to use the more advanced upscaling techniques you must buy the program. This includes a spatial AI upscaler named LS1 and also the beloved FSR 1.0, which can be applied and work flawless for 99% of games. Please note that the AI used in LS1 is different and more lightweight than the one used in DLSS, since it cant recieve temporal data and must run on a wide range of GPUs. So do not expect the same exact quality, however in every instance except shadow detail LS1 does surpass FSR 1.0, which was very usable already depending on screen size, resolution, what quality preset, etc, and it's still regularly updated with improvements happening all the time.
0:00 Explanation
0:15 Scaling Mode
2:55 Scaling Types
4:29 Misc Features
5:01 How To Upscale
5:36 Comparing The Upscalers
9:19 AI Upscaler Explained (LS1)
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New Video: ruclips.net/video/7SgA7M_XhQw/видео.html
This includes a spatial AI upscaler named LS1 and also the beloved FSR 1.0, which can be applied and work flawless for 99% of games.
Please note that the AI used in LS1 is different and more lightweight than the one used in DLSS, since it can't recieve temporal data and must run on a wide range of GPUs. So do not expect the same exact quality. However in every instance except shadow detail LS1 does surpass FSR 1.0, which was very usable already depending on resolution, quality preset, etc, and it's still regularly updated with improvements happening all the time. So by the time you're watching this video it'll be even better
*Custom Scale Factors*
Extreme Quality: 1.18x (85%)
Ultra Quality: 1.3x (77%)
Quality: 1.5x - (66%)
Performance: 2x - (50%)
*Program* store.steampowered.com/app/993090/Lossless_Scaling/
0:00 Explanation
0:15 Scaling Mode
2:55 Scaling Types
4:29 Misc Features
5:01 How To Upscale
5:36 Comparing The Upscalers
9:19 AI Upscaler Explained (LS1)
Just watched this video for a second time, and it is the most useful vid on the topic, thanks
I'm pretty good at doing guides I like cutting to the point! Did you watch my new video on LS?
Nice video. I used it before. Dunno if they had the new AI when I tested it. Will check it out again. Subbed
Honestly if FSR 1.0 is built into the game engine I'd still take FSR over LS1 as it typically looks better if not just as good and get better performance in most cases unless FSR 2.x is available either natively or through the DLSS2FSR mod. That being said I'd definitely use LS1 over Lossless Scaling's FSR option or AMD's RSR if the later was my only option for upscaling.
Yeah that's because native implementation has an LOD bias which makes things at a distance look much better, along with the post processing effects and HUD.
I wonder if LS1 might not work well on some older games? Because when I play Mass effect Andromeda and use CAS Bicubic style it gives me smoother and less frame jerk than when I use LS1 (In return Ls1 gives slightly better picture quality) . I also wonder if 3d pixel games like Minecraft or voxel games like Cloudpunk should use LS1 or Integer?
Do you know of fix for ultrawide monitors that keep the image from looking stretched? I have a 3440x1440 resolution ultrawide monitor.
Can you tell what amount of sharpening for FSR looks the closest to the native resoltion?
whats the difference between custom and auto? ive saw some of your post on steam and the quality on auto is a little bit better, but thats all I can find
Im planning to get the LG c2 4k screen, some games won't run good at 4k native, what do you recommend using with this upscaler, 1080p upscaled to 4k since its 4x the pixels? very nice application, have it on steam for quite a while.
It depends on what you can get away with. I'd use the highest internal resolution possible that you can use while achieving your desired framerate
So with custom factor, I choose my native resolution in-game then apply 1.33x/1.5x/2x ?
hello when i record with nvidia geforce experience + Lossless Scaling "fsr _sharpness at 8" there is no difference added to the video but to me its obvious can u give me a solution?
Bro i have intel hd 2500 core i5 3470 3.20 ghz and 8gb ram , when i use this the game lags and some games just get stuck at one screen even if i open something the sound of opening will come but on the screen there will be the same area
If you're upscaling and the resolution looks much worse, doesn't that mean you're actually downscaling?
This is what I gathered as well. The whole point of the application is to upscale lower resolution windowed game into native resolution by just looking at the pixels in the game window. Not to run it on top of native resolution, because why would you? I mean sure maybe you could upscale native resolution of 1080 (or what ever) to 1440p but what is the benefit other than get unnecessary artefacts when 1080 was working just fine? It can not add stuff that isn't there, it can just smooth the in between and fake. Still a cool program, I use it with unoptimized games that I can't run on high settings in 3440x1440. I don't mind a slight blur/softness if the game runs well and visuals are good.
No, downscaling means you're running at a higher resolution so your game would look better and perform worse
@@HybredDownscaling means you're turning a 4k image rendered by the game engine into a 1080p image, or a 1080p image into a 720p image, etc. Its going to both look a lot worse and perform a little worse than if you do NOT downscale and let the game engine-rendered image display as is. Upscaling means turning a low res rendering into a higher res one, which means looking better than the low res image but not as good as natively rendered high res image, and performing a lot better than if you had the game rendering a high res image to start with. So 1080p upscaled to 4k looks better than 1080p, performs a little worse than 1080p, looks worse than 4k and performs a lot worse than 4k. If you want the image to look better you upscale. If you want it to look worse you downscale.
The only time downscaling makes any sense whatsoever is if you want the original rendered image to be at higher res than your display supports, and then downscale it to your display's native res. Performance is bad but you get the best anti-aliasing possible without if you use 4x scaling with Nvidia's DSR for example.
@@thewhyzer the point of down scaling is to render above your native panel's resolution and then it down scales to your native resolution. This is upscaling because its rendering below your native resolution then upscaling the image to fit it
@@Hybred You just contradicted yourself in those two statements. "The point of downscaling... This is upscaling".. wat? And where in your video did you render anything above your native panel's resolution? You can't even select a higher-than-native resolution in the game unless you first set it up in the drivers, and the only way to do that is to use something like NVIDIA's DSR or whatever ATI's equivalent is, and then the game renders at that resolution and the GPU drivers take care of the downscaling and there is no room for Lossless scaling at all. Unless you do something weird like using DSR to render & downscale a 4k desktop resolution to your 1080p monitor and run the game in a 1080p-rendered window which you use Lossless Scaling to upscale to the desktop 4k resolution to be downscaled to 1080p... which does not look good, I've tried.
DSR is a great thing, even my 1050ti can handle some really old games like Hexen 2 (through the Hammer of Thyrion source port) at 4k and it looks great on my 1080p monitor, but whatever you were doing in the video didn't make any sense.
Thanks for this update video
sir how can you record while using lossles scaling?
and what program u use, thanks u
it's a great video
I've got a 1366x768 resolution. Can I use this?
my monitor is FullHD 144hz 15.6inch, can i use this upscaling to watch film or youtube video on 2K/4K ?
When i used losses scaling
Then i cannot record in obs
I am geting bad performance. normaly I get 70-60 but I am getting 25-30. what could be the reason?
Thanks for the tutorial
This may seem like an odd question, but the only thing I really miss from switching from Nvidia to AMD is the DLDSR feature. I would use 4k DLDSR to 1440p, rather than 2880p to 1440p DSR, and it was really great. Much better than DSR or VSR, for obvious reasons. Can this software go the other direction and downsample? Even if it used one of the other scalers, could one of those do a better job at downscaling the irregular pixel counts from 2160p to 1440p? Is it possible to buy this software outside of Steam, so it can be used without having to run Steam, during non Steam games.
running outside steam wont give u bit of fps increase :D
dldsr works with lossless scaling?
@@GeorgeSamou That's a good question. I've never used it before, so I can't say for sure.
@@TheCgOrion I just tried it. I think the quality is better. I tried changing the desktop resolution and then set borderless resolution in game.
I really don’t understand how the custom mode works... I can make it work on auto tho, what I do is put the game on 720p ( desktop resolution is native 1080p btw) and do auto amd fsr and boom it works, it’s look just like native and I have the FPS boost.
On thé custom, i let the native resolution in game just like you said (1080p) then I put 1.33 or 1.5 on the custom, I scale, fps doesn’t move.... why in auto it works but not in custom to me ? There’s something I miss here
It just depends on the game
1:46 is where he talks about resolution scale factors for those who want to know
1.33 - ultra quality
1.5-quality
1.7-balanced
2-peformance
2.33-ultra peformance (maybe)
@@RauzHamid72Ultra Quality is 1.3, Ultra Performance is 3.
@@Hybred could these settings apply to LS1 ?
@@phiphamgian3091 yeah
hi have you tried scaling in games like lol or csgo? in cs go when it scales the image from for example 800x600 in auto mode to my maximum resolution of 1280x1024 my in-game image looks like a screenshot with an even smaller second window, it adds fps but there are two game images in one monitor and it is not suitable for the game, and when it scales 1280x1024, no matter what scale from 1.0 to 2.0 up to 10, I lose fps I have this problem in csgo
in lolu when scaling I have the same problem and trace fps during each scaling method from 1.0 to 10
in games like hitman3 or assassins creed unity everything works as it should get about 50% more fps without losing almost any image quality
I use windowed mode in all games and csgo/lol is not work please help
Are you on the latest version of windows 10 or on windows 11?
@@Hybred i use Windows 10 but not latest version, i must to update it?
I have a suggestion. I recommend getting 2 things. Don't use lossless scaling at all. Instead use the app called Integer Scaler, it's free. The second thing you need to buy to make this work is a 4k dummy display. The one you wanna buy is called NewerTech. The max resolution can go up to 4096x2160. Ok, lossless scaling does support integer Scaling but it's horrible. That's why I said use the app Integer Scaler. Now, the way Integer Scaler works is you need 2 combination for a true full screen upscale. 1 a 16.9 resolution and 2 a 4k display. Without the 4k display, you won't get a true 4k upscale. Instead your game will be stuck in the center with black borders. A 4k display is a must, that's why I said you need to buy a dummy 4k display. So example. 720p is a 16.9 resolution. Run your game in windowed mode. You will get true 4k if you have a 4k display. Integer Scaler does not use any power at all. That's why it's the best one. No lost of fps.
no matter what i do it makes the image worse + giving negative performance. no matter how i set it up, it gives me less fps and a worse image. thoughts??
Same here wtf
I am getting a weird yellow box when I use this this application, any fixes ?
It means its upscaling or at least trying to
WHAT IF I HAVE 1366X768 RESOLUTION?
Does this work on games from XBOX Game Pass, or does it only work with Steam?
Both
Do you know the dev? You seem to know about future releases.
Also is that really how you use Scale Factor? As far as I was aware Scale Factor is down to what output res, you use I.e. 1440P to 4K means you are using Scale Factor 1.5 and isn’t down to what customer setting you use in LS. You set the customer Scale Factor and set to the correct one for the res. you are outputting.
Yes scale factor does a factor by your output resolution, dividing it. But those are the universal quality presets for FSR 1.0 for anyone curious
Yes that scale works as you described. In this it video he is essentially using backwards (?). The whole software's purpose is to run the games on lower resolution in borderless windowed then scale them with AI to Fullscreen in the native resolution of your monitor. It is not intended to be used while running the game in the native resolution.... because why would you? The whole point is to upscale lower resolution to get more performance with slightly better visual quality, not to mess with native resolution. Because if you can run native resolution then why would you use anything on top of it (well maybe if a game has horrible AA then 3rd party could fix it but still)?
doesnt workon team fortress2, can u fix?
so i am in a laptop and when i check resize before scaling on then it doesn't upscale, but if i leave it as off it scales :(
That's fine
@@Hybred but if its turned off it zooms in and doesn't look good :(
FYI Anyone hoping to squeeze any performance out of Path Of Exile on a potato I'm sorry to inform you it doesn't work well. Scrolling motion just becomes to jittery regardless of mode, it messes with the frame pacing it seems. Shame too, as the actual pixel upscale looks good, Even at 720p to 1440p.
hi im playing nba 2k23 and i have the same fps nothing change my cpu usage is 21% and gpu 92%.any solution for more fps ??
Very late but make sure your game isn't in fullscreen. Windowed or windowed borderless are your options.
Do I have to run the game in windowed mode or fullscreen mode?
Windowed
Any update on adding FSR 2.0
Only spatial upscalers can be injected
What's the game?
Will this program come to the Steam Deck as well?
It doesn't work on steam deck? Or do you mean natively to it in the menu? Well that's up to Valve. Developer(s) are completely okay with giving Valve the source code and letting them add it
@@Hybred When I went to the Steam store page it only shows it was only available for Windows. Just curious if you heard of anything it's coming to Steam Deck/Linux or if you tried running the program on the Steam Deck.
@@zeliph Steam Deck already has FSR. It's available as a setting in the Performance section of the UI. For Linux desktop, FSR is available in the custom proton package GloriousEggRoll.
this program somehow makes me lose frames
Both Ls1 and fsr stutters in elden ring. I am now playing game in 900p mid settings
Enable VRR support in the application settings, see if that helps. Thanks
Does this also work with 32:9 5120x1440 display?
Damn what the hell is this ? 😅😅
I would guess so. I am using 3440x1440 so a baby version of that. But for me scaling from borderless windowed at 2560x1080 results in quite good looking image. So if you drop your resolution to the second lower from that with right aspect ratio then it should scale it up no problems. Also the software is cheap so worth the try.
@@ocerco93 It's a 32x9. It's basically a double width 1440p display, so it's like two 2560x1440 panels combined as one.
Does LS1 look better then fsr 1.0 at 1080p?
Yes, only slightly though I might add, but it is noticable - and LS1 unlike FSR 1.0 is still being updated, there's even an update coming soon. So the differences will continue to grow with time
First thing first Thanks a lot for making this.
Second i used a igpu and i upscaled a 960x530 res in some games i got good looks with the optimized version and it was fantastic and smooth gameplay on most cases sometimes the game did drop frames but to be expected from a igpu (Amd 5300u) also i use custom OS and this was the final stage of optimization and i feel like the games run smothly and i can play bigger games smothly and if anyone wants more fps i will write reply to my comment thanks have a nice day.
I use atlas os for a optimized operating system I do recommend installing a antivirus since it disables the win security, I also use some other optimizations like Gpu/Cpu ETC Basic STUFF u can find on youtube and I also use ISLC really good for keeping low latency on games and over all and cleans trash programs that take space. I also use (Universal x86 tuning utility) watch video really good for any pc low-mid-high /End pcs e laptops (1/2)
I also use RivaTunnerStatisticServer to lock fps to reduce lag in the middle of frames. I used to think more fps the better and that is true most of the time but sometimes there might be lag in the middle so it's good to lock the fps to freq level helps a ton the games that I could get that much fps as my freq level I found that the game is smother and sharper with locked fps u could also in fps games or competitive game lock it a bit higher than frame rate like 20/40 more or even more then lock but u need to check delay between the frames with a program of your liking search online for one.
I did try on CS GO not CS2 and it worked smooth like butter but make sure to test and benchmark the delay in the frames (Very Important) I hope this helps even if a little bit :D
Does this work for ultrawide monitors?
Yep, at least for 3440x1440
Do you ever plan to implement FSR 2.0 into this?
Impossible. Can't get motion vectors or temporal data without access to the game engine
Ah this is not using AI and i highly dislike your title we talked before on reddit also why should we use this over RSR or NIS?
It does use AI, it uses a small general neural network, and different architectures are being tested constantly with tweaks being made to adjust the results the AI produces.
The AI is of course doing only a part of the lifting, the other part is the spatial upscaler built inside of it as well. AI is much less complex to reduce frametime cost compared to DLSS so it can work on a wide range of GPUs.
As for why you would use this over NIS? Because it produces superior results. There is also a big update coming soon for this upscaling model, and many more down the road, so it will constantly evolve and get better as long as there is interest. Stay tuned
I wonder how this would work with csgo
𝓟Ř𝔬𝓂𝔬𝐒ϻ 🤘
Junk software... Ghosting simulator
Nervously twitching dude. Very annoying.
What?
poor explanation
Thank you for your comment but if you'd like to help me improve please elaborate why, I'd gladly take this feedback into account.
This video wasn't intended to be a guide originally but I changed the title as most people found it by searching for guides, so I don't disagree I could've been clearer/better if it was my intent from the start, but I still thought it substitutes as a decent guide nonetheless