But they did get married quickly because both of them were ready for intimacy and instead of doing it in a safe environment, their culture just told them if they felt this way, put them legal binder on and then figure it out. So in a way if they had done a longer marriage, skipping out waiting, they may have been able to better navigate and learn through Paul’s ongoing expectations for his wife. Morgan could have known and not married OR been able to navigate it as a couple and not “his wife”.
Wowowow, as a survivor of a s*xually abusive relationship, the way Paul talks about just doing it anyway when you're upset with your partner is absolutely horrifying. Morgan's said a lot of harmful shit but God, I hope she gets out of this relationship.
Super scary. At first I thought he was upset with her because she was ignoring his feelings. Then I realized that he was mad because Morgan chose not to have sex with him, despite knowing that it hurt his feelings. I had to pause the video and take a breath. If he's willing to act and speak this way on camera, it makes me really worried about what he's like in private.
Same Adriana, it felt uncomfortable at first that Paul was expressing emotions of feeling hurt & disappointed and she was laughing. That's just "off" behavior with someone that you care about being vulnerable. But then he went to "you should have just taken up all the emotions labor to make me feel better AND have sex anyway even though you don't want to... red flag. That's not real consent, objectification and coercive.
It's even worse when she turns around and blatantly dismisses his feelings on camera. Like sis no wonder it seems like it's asking sooo much of a man if you're not willing to give him the same courtesy.
Video summery: Paul: “I was really hoping Morgan would be a total freak in bed but as it turns out when you’re sexually repressed your entire life that’s not possible. Definitely enjoyed my porn research though it left me confused” Morgan: “yah”
@@CherryBlossomBlyue those two things aren’t exclusive. She had pre-marital sex and then entered a space where this was very frowned upon. She probably got shamed for having had sex and she probably made the connection of sex = bad and I will go to hell for it and suddenly shes expected to make a 180 turn and be totally fine with it and revel in her sexuality
It’s so scary that this happens so frequently. I can only imagine the mental health issues that some of these partners are having to deal with, because of these situations
I follow their channel and agree with most of their views but when I heard him say this I was in shock. It seems like she was objectified which is absolutely disgusting for a guy who’s so feminine
That is absolutely true. Also, coming from someone who grew up in the church, women are also told to always please & submit to their husbands. Which can instill the idea that if the wives (in this scenario) were to not be comfortable with what’s going on, they shouldn’t say no. They should just do what their husband wants/says in order to be a “good wife”. And that’s very harmful, and not okay.
That’s exactly it, & it’s horrifying, especially as women in these groups are often told, per Michelle Duggar, to “never say no to sex.” I have seen Paul’s behavior while Morgan was in labor, & it was all about him. Selfies, with her in labor in the background. There’s something wrong with Paul, as he doesn’t seem to truly care about Morgan’s feelings of fear and pain. I don’t like this marriage. If she wants to be married, a grown man would be preferable.
@@bethmoore7722 first of all is your name a strange coincidence or are you that Beth Moore? Also, the idea of taking a selfie while your partner is in the most excruciating, possibly life threatening pain of their life is narcissistic to the point of being dangerous. It actually concerns me for the state of both of their mental health and safety.
I grew up in purity culture, and it screwed me up so badly that I freak out when somebody tries to force a kid to hug me. I want to be the Batman of bodily autonomy.
The crying at the whipped cream made my heart hurt for Morgan. Not only did she have a physical reaction to something happening to her but her partner didn’t have the tools necessary to understand or help her. I wonder what she will have to say in 10-20 years.
I cannot speak to the topic of her being wasted. However, her behavior is similar to other women I knew when I was in fundamentalism. Thankfully I am out. But women would act like this: fawning over their husband, silly and immature, giggling if they had to say something that made them nervous, etc., because it was the only way to survive under the abusive situation. It is painful for me to watch Morgan because I see so much pain and trauma there.
I hope she’ll get away from him, and the patriarchal fundies, by then. They do everything to take power & agency from women, short of binding their feet. I wish Morgan had a real life, with agency, power, and especially boundaries, ffs.
fight flight freeze and fawn are all trauma responses. you are no longer under your dad's protection once you're married, so most conservative wives are desperate to please as to avoid any excuses for abuse as fundies love victim blaming. i am very worried for morgan as it seems her emotions are not as important to her husband as they should be. i personally would never touch my spouse again without clear and enthusiastic invitation if i accidentally made them so upset they cried (sexily) during intimacy.
@@missmoxie9188 that is quite a reach. even if she did drink before every video, what does that have to do with her revealing such private details of her marriage for the benefit of other under educated couples?
Morgan's uncomfortable laughter always triggers something in me, she just doens't seem okay. It makes me want to pull her aside and ask what's going on with her.
I think she always almost acts odd, like she's either suppressing another personality or like not completely sober tho this is a heavy assumption ofc. I can't really put my finger on it but sometimes definitely off🤷♀️
It’s so uncomfortable like 90% of their conversations center around Paul wanting sex regardless of Morgan’s feelings or comfort and her trying to grapple with that.
For real. Libido mismatches require compromise on both sides. Why isn't the pressure ever on him to just have a date night that doesn't end in sex, or for him to just jerk off once in a while if she isn't in the mood? The second one might be a religious thing, but masturbation/porn really can play a healthy role in a relationship. Besides, trying to abstain from it never works and you just end up ashamed when you "fail".
@@dellybird5394 my marriage had libido mismatch, but my husband made sure it was my free choice, not me caving to pressure. I wish there was more discussion around being a partner that makes sex worth the investment.
@@dellybird5394I don't think it's a libido difference, it's a connection difference. She wanted connection and to take it slow, and all he thought of was "awesome, I get to have sex!" Both are completely different desires, but if nurtured, can end up in the same place.
Not only that, but they also need to have these conversations with eachother without a camera. This is full of passive aggressive comments towards eachother and this needs so much honest and open convo without the preying eyes of the internet
It says everything about their egos that they think this is advice to bestow on other people, rather than airing of issues, which really need addressing with therapy as you rightly point out. Can you imagine saying you’ve been doing some thing for six weeks and it’s going well and therefore you’re at the level of being an expert and a teacher?! 😂 again, self righteousness and ego 😂
The way he looks at her when she's clearly uncomfortable brings back so many uncomfortable memories of youth group: boys sitting on one side, girls on the other. And the pastor (always a male) would very pointedly look at the girls any time he would bring up the scriptures of women submitting to men. Regardless of how uncomfortable we all were on that side, all the boys followed the pastor's look and would stare at us, some smile, some laugh, some smirk. It's so........so bad. Paul is a creep. Just like those boys. He only cares about himself. He doesn't think outside of himself. Morgan is only there for his physical self and it's gross. Ugh.
God you can read right through the lines that any time they fight about something he most definitely uses, "Well if you had sex with me more! I wouldn't be angry with you!" against her. They both make me uncomfortable, but Morgan, girl, you deserve not to be married to a p*rv.
Wow. That memory you brought up blows my mind. Because I've seen a lot of traditional marriages (on the Internet, mind you) where BOTH spouses talk about their obligations to EACH OTHER. It's an unpopular setup that doesn't appeal to a lot these days, but appears to be very rewarding when done with mutual effort and enthusiasm. What you brought up sounds like a patriarchal hellscape, a lopsided social hierarchy that doesn't even value a traditional man the way it does a traditional woman.
@@matisseedgaryoshihara5625 It's very traditional in the Christian world. And it's just accepted. I can't tell you how many girls under 18 were being actively pursued by men nearing 25 and waited until they turned 18 to start "announcing" that they were dating when we all knew that they'd started dating way before that. The way I described it is what it actually is. The way it's "taught" is done so cleverly that even the one teaching doesn't realize what they're doing. And it's worse if they do know. A lot of already established religious marriages sound equal on the surface. They've been trained to say certain things to sound good. More often, women, like Morgan here, laugh it off. Or try to joke with a smile. It's a submissive act. And a lot of women do it around men without realizing that it's what we've been conditioned to do. To just accept.
I grew up in that environment and genuinely didn't believe women enjoyed sex until I was in my 20s. Marital rape was really normalized in my congregation. I grew up thinking sex was this terrible obligation that women had to fulfill for their husbands. I decided at a young age never to have sex because I didn't want to hurt anyone, especially not someone I cared about. I'm seeing a therapist now and finally trying to date for the first time at age 29. I left the church over a decade ago. It's taken me all that time to process 1) the realization that what I grew up with wasn't just "conservative" but abusive, and 2) the belief that I'm too broken and inexperienced to ever possibly have a normal relationship.
@@danieltaulbee9888 hi. former evangelical here. I'm so sorry you were raised in such an awful environment. I'm very proud of you for getting away and getting help, both very big steps! Good luck on your healing journey my friend❤️
As someone who came from an extremist right wing household, these videos are absolutely instrumental in my healing. Thank you so much for doing what you do!
Grew up gay/ace spectrum in an extremely religious family and state, so I absolutely second this! Mickey stays classy about it too, extremely helpful. Best of luck & lots of love to anyone healing from this, mental illnesses and/or addiction. ♡♡♡
@@zulemazahir666 Me too! And also I’ve known I was trans from a very young age…. the things they’d say and do to me to try to “get the devil out of me” aren’t appropriate to put into words. Listening to her and Jaclyn Glenn’s videos now that I’ve escaped have been extremely rewarding and healing experiences.
@@Thi-Sen I'm so glad you've found some relief through them. I haven't watched Jaclyn in forever! Genuinely best of luck to you, no one should be made to feel that they're inherently wrong or evil just for being themselves.
I'm not sure how much of Morgan's laughter is "I laugh because otherwise I'd cry" &/or the expectation in fundie worlds that women present only "positive" emotions, but I'm definitely getting some of that vibe.
just look at her face the whole time. she rolls her eyes at him so many times, sometimes has this sad and defeated expression on her face, her constant turning her head (and body) away from him. its all very telling.
I grew up with depression in a fundamentalist household, and presenting a happy face to the world is expected of men, too. (Although of course, everything is worse for women in fundamentalism)
Some people (myself included) have laughter as their default reaction - whether they're genuinely amused or extremely nervous/uncomfortable or just not knowing how to react at all.
Morgan wasn't a virgin when they married, and sometimes I get the feeling that Paul holds that over her head. Purity culture gives him a license to look down on her. I'm sure he expected her to be more "receptive" to his sexual wants (whipped cream) because she had sex before. That's not how it works Paul!
I completely agree. I think Morgan also probably feels a level of shame associated with the fact that she wasn't a virgin before marriage and feels she has to compensate for it to appease Paul.
What I don't understand is how can there be a culture where sex is banned but as soon as you get married you can do kinky sex. Shouldn't this repressive culture say that marriage sex should be non kinky. It would make much more sense and it might be what Morgan was expecting, not to have a sex addict husband.
Yeah he took it so personally and couldn’t let it go, it was so cringey. It worries me what he’s like when he gets angry off-camera. I feel bad for Morgan.
I'm very worried for Morgan. It's like she knows she deserves her autonomy but is so stuck in a fog, she can't figure out what's wrong with this picture. Paul's entitlement to sex is very scary.
Heres my hot take (Im a PsyD but thats kinda irrelevant) I dont think Morgan likes Paul very much. I think she rushed into a marriage due to religion and then realized theyre not very compatible. BUT because of the religious belief her only option is to keep on working on this relationship bc divorce is not an option. It pains me, bc as arrogant as she can be, I think Paul stiffles her light.
Actually I'm pretty sure in another video of theirs (or book) they mentioned that Morgan had recognized that they weren't compatible before marriage and had suggested they break up, only to have Paul "convince" her otherwise. But yeah you're totally right! (Also congrats on your PsyD!)
For some reason my gut tells me the arrogance people read isn't her genuine self. Idk if this is a thing or not but my gut tells me her arrogant opinions/language/actions are Paul's not hers almost like she is fawning on these videos to please him. It scares me. I think this bc of how she looks at him when she is saying a strong opinion as if to check and see if he agrees. She laughs and lets go of what she seems to feel as her own invalidated opinions and looks away. I just feel like there are fights and toxic shit behaviors happening off camera and between takes and during the editing. She doesn't look comfy in her own skin she looks like a child with an abusive caretaker. I see her in these newer videos and worry about her bc she seemed so different in the older videos when their marriage was newer.
@@SabiLewSounds I agree for the most part, but I remember when she spoke about God is Gray and how horrible she treated her and that was all her. She can be awful on her own.
their upbringing encourages cognitive dissonance. maybe theres a level where they feel it isnt right, or wish it werent, but they wont allow themselves to actually think that they arent right for each other. in these circles questioning ur marriage is equiv to questioning god. they arent supposed to question god. i do think however that morgan believes this in her own right and not just bc paul does or anyone makes her. her relationship isnt good for her but she has a platform thru it, and shes tempted by the idea that young women look up to/listen to her.
like...the idea that your partner is someone you "settled for" in any sense is fcked up. like...what you don't think that your partner is the absolute best person????
Paul radiates so much entitlement and contempt all of the time. "Uwu I was so sad that I just wanted to go for a drive when I didn't get sex wah wah wah" made my eyes roll all the way back into my head, but it reveals a deeper pathology that is anything but a trivial joking matter. Being sad or disappointed when you don't get what you want is perfectly human and normal, but healthy, self-aware, non-self-absorbed people recognize that their inner toddler *is* an inner toddler.
@@dinosaysrawr The sickest thing about this is that cishet men don't act this way about anything else. Tell them there's no icecream today or tell them they have to wait until they can get a new car or tell them they haven't been promoted, they are all Humble Adult about all that. I mean at least they handle those with a normal amount of disappointment. But no sex with their desired partner when THEY want to? HURRDURR HOW DARE YOU WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE THEY ARE OWED THAT, DISHONOR ON YOUR HOUSE, IT IS A LITERAL BIRTHRIGHT, YOU ARE OPPRESSING THEM AND ALSO YOUR MOM
I had the same exact reaction to him saying it’s good to pat your partner on the back, say I love you, and it’s OK we’re mad… and we should still have sex. I mean wtf! That is so manipulative and if I were in that position I’d probably start crying. And I love how he’s allowed to express being hurt they can’t have sex, but she doesn’t seem to be given the space to be upset about whatever they were arguing about which let’s be real, is more important than getting it on every flipping day.
I wonder what it was like after recording the video if he was this upset in front of the camera. "How dare you know I wanted sex and not give it to me!"
If I were in that position _I_ would be the one who leaves and just drives away :'DDD I mean I've literally done that, men who cannot FATHOM a no for an answer and even throw a hissy fit, are not safe to stay around, I have walked out of apartments at 2 AM, better to go home, even on foot, instead of trying to sleep next to creeps like that. I mean it's harder when you're married to one but ugghhhh I wish she wasn't
As an ace person, I'm very used to hearing any and all thoughts/commentary about sex and thinking "this is fun to hear about, but it isn't applicable to my life and isn't for me." So to hear you briefly acknowledge asexuality as a real thing was so surprising, uplifting, and heartwarming. Thanks Mickey :)
I completely agree. I don’t know if I’m ace because of previous religious trauma or just ace in general, but regardless I’ve avoided the dating world completely because I was told all relationships are held together by sex, and if you aren’t having enough sex your relationship will fail. And I knew from a young age that I wouldn’t be able to satisfy a partner because I never desired it. Now hearing that it’s okay to be asexual and not have a high or functioning libido is really comforting. I’m glad professionals are starting to take asexuality seriously and not as a problem to be fixed.
As a recovering fundamentalist, these therapy-breakdowns of people like Paul and Morgan as well as Girl Defined have been so, so massively meaningful and helpful to me in my healing journey. Thank you so much for these, sincerely. PS, your hair looks amazing!
So... Paul was super excited to have sex, and he began researching. And he... didn't mention this to Morgan? Didn't want to share his sources with her? Didn't ask how she felt about bringing out the whipped cream on the first night?? I'm not convinced these two communicate. They're just two people who live together (and now have a baby).
@@caseyw.6550 She nearly died because their church/faith tradition pushes home-birthing. Her water broke, and her midwife kept her at home for like 30 hours instead of going to a hospital. She had an infection when they finally got her in for an emergency Caesarean.
Mickey when you reaffirmed that it is not right to pout or get mad at your partner for saying no for whatever reason, it healed my heart a little, I almost cried. I’m many years out of a fundamentalist marriage, I feel like Morgan is me if I never left him.
I was also in a relationship where the one time I worked up the courage to say no, he kept acting like he was going to be sexual with me. I said no louder and pushed him away and he started crying because I "looked at him like he was an abuser". After that, I never said no to him again. It was awful and I'm still unpacking all of that. I'm sorry that you went through an entire marriage of that kind of behavior. You deserve a life where people respect your say in things
I was engaged to someone who was JUST like paul and it almost killed me. I get a bit of PTSD-like reactions hearing him talk about obligatory sex because that's what I was told as a soon-to-be wife. thankfully I got out of it but it's going to take years for me to be ready to be with anyone again. it's hard to trust when so much pressure is upon you.
My honest reaction to the whipped cream story was that Paul thought something like, "So I toughed out with this sl*t until we got married AND NOW IT'S GOING TO PAY OUT," which is just horrifying. It feels like yet another example of his sl*t-shaming attitude. I don't share their religious views, but geez, Morgan tried to improve herself in the way she knew how, and this is how she gets treated.
I am SO tired of the mass belief that women don't enjoy sex/sexual activities. That belief is upheld by people who are bad at sex or with someone who is bad at sex.
They also act like sex and lust is normal and natural for men and will excuse cheating or men having casual sex, but will call women sl*ts and fornicators for being engaged and having sex (let alone having ethical casual sex). The idea that women shouldn't like sex upholds this Madonna/wh*re complex they use to oppress afab people. I hate it especially since they still push sex on you to try to marry it off, but will disown you if you take the time to get to know your partner before marriage.
Me too. I'm so tired of it. I enjoy sex. I love doing it by myself and I love having my husband too. I hate that I grew up in a culture that says women can't enjoy sex as much as a man does. And it's so unfair that if I say I enjoy sex and orgasms, I'm view as dirty and sinful in some way.
One of the things that helped me leave an evangelical cult was a therapist. Not only is this reaffirming the truth of the matter, but it’s cathartic to share information from a therapist.
@@kodesh_intentions it’s too much to post, but there was sexual harassment from the lead pastor and his (ex) wife done to me and my friends, tax fraud, lying to the congregation (especially about money), child abuse, deliberate cherry-picking of biblical text, abusing staff and volunteers, emotional manipulation and interrogation, not paying staff for their 12-16 hour work days, not honoring vacation time even when there is an emergency, keeping members away from family, and a whole lot more. They got me when I was 17 and I was fully indoctrinated until 2020.
The body language is something else! So many times she "laughs" and then she looks away from him---extremely uncomfortable! I also love watching your expressions! They illustrate my feelings pretty accurately.
Her laughing is striking me an anxious performance to alleviate discomfort and present an image that these uncomfortable things aren't really a problem.
Thank you for always remembering and validating te Aspec community! I love watching the expressions on your face as you watch, I have a funny feeling mine are pretty much the same :) I also found it funny when Paul said he was up for anything. As a BDSM educator, I guarantee that there are things he wants nothing to do with LOL We always warn people against saying "I'm up for anything!" or "I have no limits!" is a huge red flag. Everyone has limits and no one is up for everything and that's okay!!
To give credit where it’s due it was actually the Aspec community who helped educate me! I’ve definitely made some mistakes in the past when speaking about the topic and the community was so kind in educating me and holding me accountable to growing so I definitely don’t want to take all the credit lol!
To be fair, I think the imaginations of most evangelicals are generally pretty limited, so their idea of "kinky" is "fluffy handcuffs" and "doing a position other than missionary." :D
I’d like to hear more about this BDSM education, please! I’m still kind of new to it, as I’m exploring my sexuality kind of late (I’m almost 30!), but I want to learn more :)
@@QueenCloveroftheice if you'd like a great source for bdsm education I have to recomend Evie Lupine on RUclips. She really does the best job I've seen of explaining all different bdsm orientations and practices in a respectful and informative way.
As someone that's also uncomfortable with "negative" emotions due to upbringing, I know Morgan's laughter. It's the same way I laugh in therapy when I have to talk about tough topics. She's laughing because she'd cry or scream otherwise and feels like she isn't allowed to. I just want to give her my hand and help her. She seems so miserable.
I think that the comment made by Paul about how he feels if they don't have sex is very interesting. Given their "traditional" gender roles, sex is likely the only form of intimacy and vulnerability he allows himself to have.
They both honestly seem so uncomfortable to be sitting in front of the camera talking about their sex lives. I can imagine them arguing about it the second they stop rolling.
She’s likely uncomfortable because women are judged very differently in her world, so he’s exposing her to very real criticism when he insists on publicizing their s€x lives. It reminds me of how Marc Driscoll did the same to his wife.
25:35 I really don't like how Paul puts the blame on Morgan for not being aware of/communicating her sexual needs, rather than blaming himself for not being attentive to her needs. Sure Morgan should have communicated what she needed to him better, but it really shocks me that he was expecting her to be 100% satisfied without any cuddling or conversation.
I'm baffled that he never asked her what her needs were and in the video how resistant he is because of his bullshit "men are from Mars" mentality. I wonder if she feels safe communicating those needs in all honesty.
When Paul conflated sex with being super emotional you could tell that was the only way he felt emotional connection and validation. Toxic masculinity is awful.
The most disturbing part to me is when Paul said he felt like leaving and getting in his car and driving away just because she didn't want to have sex on a night it was planned. Ugh.
@@sugoisenpai92 I agree, but I think if someone needs space to calm down then they should whether that's going for a walk or drive then they can come back to be able to talk rationally vs angry.
When my partner and I get into a little disagreement and I'm upset, I don't want to look at him until I process my emotions. I especially don't want to be touched. Can't imagine.
So many good things from this video! 1) As someone who’s Autistic/ADHD, I thought the distinction between “I feel hurt by X” vs “You (partner) hurt me by ______” is a HUGE thing for me!! My (newly married) spouse and I have dealt with this confusion a bit since I got diagnosed early last year (I’m in my early 30s) and it’s hard for me to sus out what’s *really* going on when I can’t process my emotions and it takes me longer to process what’s going on (hours most of the time). Thank you for that golden nugget of advice/wisdom Mickey! I’ll definitely be using it as a tool now and in the future!! 2) Also, as someone who grew up in Purity Culture, it literally took me until a few months ago to realize that it’s OK to say No when you’re not in the mood for sex. I’ve been out of the culture for 14-15 years now and, up until recently, I had this default mode on in my mind that told me that I should get into the mood if my partner was, even though I wasn’t. I didn’t even know where it came from and how it latched on so deeply in my psyche but I’m glad I addressed it!! I also think that Purity Culture/Christianity doesn’t approve of masturbati*n/solo pleasure away from one’s partner. If you engage in it, it’s a sin and you’re fulfilling your desires away from the One God has for you and it’s seen as a form of cheating…when honestly, it’s needed and welcome when you have two people with different libidos. I swear, Purity Culture and Christianity just make things so complicated, convoluted and messy it blows even my own mind sometimes (and I grew up in that subculture too)!
I would be cringing if I weren’t so angry and sad that purity and patriarchal culture have made sex such a minefield for everyone, especially for women. This video feels very validating though, thanks Mickey, we need more conversations about this 💯
Yeah all the stuff they had to unlearn could have been avoided if they were raised with a healthier attitude about sex. It's not something you can hide away in a little box until your wedding night. You need space to safely explore it and make mistakes before you are legally bound to someone.
The best advice on sex I've ever gotten was from an interview with a therapist in the newspaper, and she just said "Often times we view sex with a partner as a duty or something that regularly should happen. But that's the worst approach. Sex should never happen out of duty. You have to imagine sex as a big wildflower meadow. It's beauty and beautiful. It's natural. It's creative too. So if you feel like having sex with your partner, don't do it out of duty, but because you feel like it. Maybe don't immediately go for the private parts. Kiss and smooch a little. Learn to know the spots you and your partner likes, maybe the neck or something else. Take your time with it, and if it doesn't up end in sex but you're just smooching, that's perfectly fine as well."
This is great advice & it sounds like one of those things where just take things off the table and see where things go, enjoy the moment and a good time will be had by all!
It took us forever to get through this video because I kept having to pause and scream at some of their "advice" (usually right before Mickey did, LOL). The worst was the last bit; when Paul suggested that you roll over to your partner and scratch their back and say, "Hey, we might not figure this out tonight but I love you"--my heart melted and I thought, "Hey, that's actually good". But my guard was down and it was immediately stabbed by the words "AND HAVE SEX ANYWAY". He not only feels like r@pe/coercion is part of a loving relationship, but he's advising other couples to ALSO force s3x if one partner wants it, while trying to coerce Morgan on camera to agree with him that it's good to have s3x when you don't want to! It's like Inception: r@pe culture edition, so many terrible layers. I try so hard to have empathy for his entitled @ss when I watch these videos b/c he is also a victim of their weird fundie culture, but I hit a wall now and I just hate him. I can't stop hating him right now, he's too much of a r@pey trash fire and wants Morgan to basically be some kind of Mommy/wh0re mash-up where she soothes his hurt feelings at the expense of his own and offers s3x on demand. I can only imagine how much of a man-baby he is now that there's another baby in the house demanding her time, too, and actually deserving it. Ugh, ugh, ugh. She deserves better than this. ALL WOMEN deserve better. Ugh.
Whew, the video is being dragged in the comments (from their own viewers even, not yours!) and it looks like they've maybe done 1 video together since that one was released. I hope that means they're doing some self-reflection behind the scenes. I mean, I doubt Paul is, but hey--I am wrong sometimes.
it's absolutely incredible they filmed and edited this and thought it was a good idea to post it. it is so humiliating and makes their marriage seem super dysfunctional
I’m so glad my partner and I are autistic. We KNOW the other person might not pick up on hints or might misunderstand a situation, so we just…ask, or express how we feel. We both accept that it’s our own responsibility to communicate feelings if we’re able. Sometimes we aren’t, but we agree not to take it out on each other while we figure it out.
This is so good to hear as a late diagnosed autistic adult myself. I'm absolutely terrified of dating because I was abused as a child and saw a lot of borderline fundamentalist Christian attitudes within my home, and a lot of Christian fundamentalist values in my very conservative community growing up. I still am not sure I believe that healthy relationships actually exist, but I'd like to think that someday maybe I can have some companionship.
@@millenial90 They take work, but I can promise you that they do exist. I grew up in a terribly abusive household and so did my partner, and we both worked very hard to support each other and grow beyond what our fathers taught us. We now have an amazingly healthy 11-year relationship. It’s almost the exact opposite of what you (and I) probably grew up understanding as a “legitimate” one: poly, queer, and ace. I never imagined myself in a healthy relationship because I had no model of one-it turns out I was just looking in the wrong place. I won’t say it’s been an easy road for us because we both grew up in such awful families, but if I can find someone who matches me as well as my partner does, so can you!
@@millenial90 Tiny anecdote by way of example: tonight I was telling my partner how I’d been talking in therapy about all of the traumatic invalidation I’ve experienced in my life and they said, “I feel like I’ve contributed to that in the past, and I’m sorry for that.” We both learned how not to repeat what was taught to us and that’s made our relationship amazing.
Yeah, no. That whole speech he did about being angry and disappointed when they weren’t going to have sex is the shame stuff my ex pulled when he tried to guilt me into changing my no into a yes. It’s coercion 100%. Him saying “humble yourself” and just have sex anyway made my skin crawl. P.S. I escaped, and my current relationship is much healthier!
i’m Christian but this video was very helpful for me. i’ve always struggled with the concept of sex because of the way i was raised. i think it’s very important to distinguish between the actual teachings of Jesus and the harmful fundamentalism that has emerged culturally that is not inherent to Jesus’ teachings. i feel calmer today, thank you!
I agree! I actually was listening to another podcast about Christian sex and things that one partner may want to do that another may not want to do, the phrase that stuck out was “Is it kind?” The Jesus talks about treating someone as we ourselves would want to be treated. I agree we need to meet each other needs but I dont think we shouldn’t put our partners needs below ours. That’s how we love each other like Jesus would have us 💕
So from Paul's perspective he waited until marriage and now he can get sex on demand because by waiting he earned it. He feels by virture of being a virgin until marriage that he's already done everything he needs to be entitled to sex. It seems like he believes that Morgan should have understood this and by marrying him she automatically agreed that he has already earned sex from her. It seems like he never considered that waiting until marriage wasn't enough to "earn" sex from his wife. I think he's irritated that it takes more work and communication to have sex that Morgan wants to have and can enjoy having. He's confused that she has her own expectations because he feels like she already consented to meet his expectations when they got married. I feel like he's only capitulating to her to get what he wants because he know that's the only way he'll get sex. Meeting her needs is a chore he has to do have sex that he feels he shouldn't have do. I don't think he's even considers that sex is reciprocal. What morgan wants is unnecessary because he's done all the work (waiting) that he was willing to do. Meeting her expectations and desires is never something he wants to have to have the burden of doing. I'm not willing to do anything for you but you already agreed to do what I want so I expect to get it. Its cruel to take away something you promised me. I don't imagine that either one of them is enjoying their sex life as much as they could if were both got pleasure from mutal respect understanding and a desire to please and be pleased. I dont know why someone would want sex from someone who didn't really want to be there.
I was all ready to ask why there wasn't a mention of how harmful purity culture is for men, but by the time I got to the end I understood. There was such a difference in the way their hurt was treated: Morgan's hurt was funny, and treated like something she needed to communicate, but Paul's hurt needed to be catered to, to the point that years later he was deeply, publicly offended that Morgan didn't prioritize him, and pressed the point that she should. Yes, this kind of culture sets men up for hurt when they don't get the love and connection they are promised from these transactions, but they have also been given so much power that they tend to just double down, hurting their partners even more in the process. While they are victims of the system, they are also the primary perpetrators, so it can be hard to have any sympathy. They're doing it to themselves, and hurting others even worse.
You are also not being a “tease,” if you take sexual contact off the table, because right it just not an okay time. I've had to face this bs criticism and it was incredible painful.
The fact that these two are now parents makes their views even scarier. I'm worried for their child (and future children as I'm *sure* they will have more). They're not going to learn healthy information about sex and their bodies and could end up in potentially dangerous situations because of it.
I wouldn't be surprised if the dad molests them. He seems like the type to only enjoy sex with those that can't or reluctantly consent. There's no way he enjoys consensual sex
I think the not thinking about sex/avoiding "lustful" thoughts is a huge part of the problem with the emotional/physical connection problem Morgan was talking about. If you allow yourself to feel and think sexual things without shame or guilt, you can allow yourself to imagine and come to conclusions about what you may want. Shocker, allowing yourself to imagine what you might want can help you realize what you want. Kinda like having dinner, you gotta think about what you want sometimes to figure out what flavor of gravy you want with your mashed taters. Making even just thinking about sex or having "lustful" thoughts shouldn't be a bad thing, and yet they've made it that way, and that's just gonna make things more difficult.
So true. Avoiding "lust" while also getting yourself in the mood for sex is an impossible task. Also if Paul was allowed to look at porn and jerk off, I doubt he would be so hurt when Morgan turns him down. Both of them would be happier if they could explore this stuff by themselves guilt-free. Your spouse can't be the gatekeeper for your entire sexuality. That is way too much pressure to put on someone.
I think there’s a difference between lust and natural sexual desires. Natural sexual desires are just like you admire the beauty of that other person and the thought of having a more intimate relationship with them is nice. Lust is when you reduce a person into a sexual object.
16:45 The expectations from sex advice / porn problem goes way beyond fundie circles. That goes for any culture that lacks high quality, comprehensive sex ed. Or any group that doesn’t talk openly and honestly about different sexual experiences. People get info secret-squirrel style from dubious sources If you want info, find some well-reviewed websites and books like PlannedParenthood or Scarleteen. Right now, I’m reading *Come as You Are*, which I’m finding helpful and encouraging.
Yes yes yes! I love Scarleteen and Go Ask Alice, I read/watched them so much as a teen long before I had sex and I sent them to my other friends too. Even though I'm ace and I wasn't sure if I ever wanted to have sex, I wanted to be prepared if I did. I'm Christian and made the personal choice to wait, but it was about empowerment and owning my sexuality for me. Despite being raised in a non-denominational conservative household, I was lucky enough not to be raised in purity culture, and my parents were pretty "sex-positive" though they wouldn't have used that word. I'm also really grateful to the radio show Loveline. I listened to it for years growing up and it really helped me to be informed about many common teenage and relationship issues before my friends and I encountered them in our own lives.
I would just like to add that Morgan was in former relationship that she said was abusive. She said she had sex with this man. I don't know all that happened in that relationship but she might have bringing trauma into her relationship with Paul and the lack of communication between them could have been very triggering for her and creating new trauma. The fact that Paul "forgave" her for her past sexual history is concerning. This might not be Morgan but I know there are a lot girls that are made to feel that they have to be forgiven for being raped/sexually assaulted because they are not virgins.
Coming out of purity culture myself, I can say everything Mickey observed is 100 percent accurate. My honeymoon was traumatic for me but i laughed it off just like her. I still have issues with certain issues regarding sex because of this mentality like Paul and Morgan promote. Thank you Mickey for addressing this. Its very theraputic
I'm gay and grew up in a small conservative town as the only very out gay kid. My family was very supportive, and I'm eternally grateful for that. But kids at school would assault me and vandalize my locker and possessions, threaten me, assault me, etc. Teachers told me I was going to hell & am an abomination. At my first job as a teenager my supervisor said the same & told me I could never really love someone or have a real marriage because I'm a deviant. My whole life I've dealt with people who have treated me like this while doing this to their kids. I always felt awful for the people raised in this culture. It's so blatantly abusive, cruel, and wrong. They use fear and shame as weapons to brainwash children into believing that women are property, even if they dress it up in pretty words. Ultimately, they hated me for refusing to be controlled by their beliefs. Looking back, they thought I damaged the sanctity of marriage, the minds of other kids, and was an evil mockery of all things good and natural, but these things were what they were. I can't think of anything more evil than making children ashamed to control them and using someone's genuine desire to be good as a tool to beat them into submission so they can be controlled, violated, and abused by the people who are supposed to love and protect them. I'm so, so sorry that you want through that and I'm glad it's finally being talked about and brought to the light.
@@Nosfermarki I am so sorry for all that you went through also. It is an abusive environment and I am so thanfkul we can share our stories more openly now. But its taken years for many of us. Its a tough world to live in as is, but adding this culture to the mix is even harder. I am so glad you had some support and I wish you well on all you do.
i was really hoping you'd make a video about this. i grew up in this culture and it was the reason i stayed in a sexually abusive/sexually coercive relatonship, but almost no one who did a video on it was able to recognize the subtle implications of what paul especially is saying
As an ace person this is something I’ve thought a lot about, but in the video it’s mentioned a lot that this is a product of purity culture. While purity culture makes this worse, this is pervasive everywhere in our society. Morgan is echoing a bunch of issues that come from the fact that our society is based on an assumption that everyone has sex and everyone has it in a way that has already been previously agreed upon by the society i.e. how often, how kinky, etc. I think it would be nice to acknowledge that everyone struggles with this not just religious fundamentalists.
Fellow ace and completely this. This is why it took me sooooo long to recognize that I fall into the ace spectrum. I mean I'm more demisexual, but it took me ages to realize that I was.
Absolutely. For some of us sexuality is a delicate bloom, easily destroyed by crass pervy kink, that the other person mistakes for intimacy. A total turn off.
So true. I'm ace and married to a generally allo person, but our marriage helped him explore his sexual expression and now he talks about recognizing that he's "a little bit ace" too. Even being ace and having communicated my boundaries and expectations from the beginning of our relationship, and having them affirmed and respected, I still worried for the first few years of our marriage. Since I had it in my head that I had to balance my ace-ness with his 'regular' allosexual needs, I feared that it could be a sign that something was wrong if we weren't doing it at a frequency that society deems "normal." Being able to let that go and just be us has been so nice.
i grew up roman catholic in poland and watching them talk about this stuff brings back bad memories 😐 i'm still healing from years of hearing how masturbation is 'self r word' or 'church needs families so you should have 3 kids by the time you're 25'. i'm ace and that's one of the many reasons why i left church. as far as i was taught and read up sources... it's good to be celibate and abstain if you experimence ~lust and temptation~ but if you lack that? there's something wrong with you! the pressure to conform when you're afab is awful, you're taught to pray for a good husband but also accept whoever "god sends you" bc marriage is for life!!1 my parents are still hiding their divorce from relatives 🤡
I also grew up roman catholic in Poland! I'm not ace but the focus on the family, and getting married or staying celibate being the only valid choices also drew me away from the church (among other stuff).
yooo fellow ace ex-catholic comrade, you're so right! It's bizaare, for years I thought it was perhaps "better" that I lacked temptation but they hated that too! They want everyone's sexuality to be a switch they flip on right after the marriage ceremony to a near stranger, it's insane! Even though I am ace, I've still had to unpack some unhealthy concepts about sex and sexuality, and I've found a lot I enjoy about myself even though I'm not "sexually" attracted to others and not interested in having sex with others. Like, I'm happy being who I am! If I am "single" forever, or if my feelings ever do change, all those things I feel are totally okay and normal for me to want. It's such a relief to be able to allow that and be open to, even if my sexuality is "not typical" to most people's experience. I think my biggest aspec/arospec experience was in high school I would go on dates with guys sometimes because there was a lot of pressure to "give them a chance" and before the date I would spend like an hour sitting somewhere and trying SO hard to think positive thoughts about the guy I was going out with and trying trying *trying* to conjure up those bubbly feelings I was "supposed to have" towards the opposite gender. It was intensely artificial, and it wasn't good for me. I'm glad I don't have to put on such an act anymore.
And that's why so many Polish young people are leaving Poland. I've lived in Canada for 28 years but my sisters are still in Poland and thankfully my dad's family wasn't very religious but many of their friends are married with multiple kids and miserable. Also let's add in that mental health issues aren't taken very seriously or even mocked 😢
I cannot imagine having an expectation that when my partner is upset with me or we're not in a good place that they "humble themselves" and sleep with me. Not only is that not their responsibility but I would never EVER want to sleep with someone who was doing it despite not wanting to, especially a partner I love and value. I would never be able to have sex knowing it's not what my partner wants. I would feel so gross.
I’m so sorry. Me too. The only way I can describe it is violated and soiled. I find it hard to believe that a person who has sex, knowingly with an unwilling partner, truly believes that what they are doing is loving or intimate. It is abuse and coercion. We deserve better. It isn’t okay. Our bodies belong to our selves. Best wishes.
I am a person who is in the same religion as Paul and Morgan. I recently read "Pure" by Linda Kay Klein. If anyone reading this needs a book to help you process and heal from purity culture, I highly recommend this book. I have been married for 11 years and have just recently (after having kids) started to be so much more comfortable with my own body and sexuality. Thankfully my husband is NOT like Paul, and he supports/understands if it is not a good time to have sex. He also is not under this weird "have sex every other night" scheduled expectation. We have sex when we feel like it and we are both connected with each other. I want to say that I think a lot of this trouble with the man having an entitled attitude towards sex is taught by the church, because they say sex is how men most feel loved, so if you are withholding from your husband, he will go look for it elsewhere. This is not a healthy thing! It's a fear tactic. Thank you for bringing this up in your videos and providing a professional perspective. Your videos are helping me get over incorrect thought processes and unhealthy expectations I have of myself that are a byproduct of purity culture.
Growing up fundie, I thought that I was deeply broken because I have a high libido. It's taken almost 30 years to deprogram myself and there's still things that pop up and I have to acknowledge that, wait, that's not right. You are always a work in progress.
YIIIIIKES. As someone who does not maintain long term relationships, I’m just seeing the “we have maybe a few weeks left” signs stapled all over their foreheads. She seems super uncomfortable, he seems super angry, and they shouldn’t be talking about/to each other like this IN PUBLIC. Especially since it seems they didn’t talk about it with each other first. Wow.
Considering the culture they live in and how public their platform is, I would imagine they'll force themselves to stick it out another couple years at least. It definitely won't be happy though
The way Morgan nervously laughs and seemingly attempts to shrug off her own emotions is so hard to watch for me. I was in an emotionally abusive relationship for 6 months, but they messed me up wildly. The way they seem unable to properly communicate their needs and especially the way Paul expects Morgan to be the one initiating some form resolution after a fight is really hard to watch. My ex would do a similar thing if I upset or dissapointed him; leave me and not talk to me until I initiated it. It left me with an almost ptsd-like reaction to potentially dissapointing people out of the fear of then hating and/or leaving me if I didn’t submit. I hope Morgan won’t ever experience the same.
Purity culture messed me up in so many ways and caused me to accept coersion as okay. I pick up misogyny vibes here, and my heart goes out to Morgan for getting the brunt of it and Paul for being taught these messed-up ideas. I'm not justifying his behavior; I find it deeply triggering from my past. Thank you so much, Mickey, for doing this. It brings me closer to freedom and healthy mindsets about sex and relationships. I appreciate your insight!
paul seriously gives me the ick. the thinly veiled anger at the end sent off huge warning bells in my head, speaking as someone who's been in an emotionally abusive relationship. just, yikes on trikes all the way down
I CANNOT get over their sex schedule. Like sure I guess that works for some people but the way they imply that's the way to go... Well it doesn't sound like it's working for THEM honestly
Omg this brings up so much. I was told so much that sex was my 'duty', to be always 'joyfully available' no matter how I felt about it. It led to me being somewhat hypersexual, because if I'm supposed to have it whenever, I have to be thinking of sex to be always sort of 'in the mood', at least a little bit. Which then led to a lot of shame, because we're also told that women don't have sex drives. I absolutely do, and that made me think maybe god had screwed up and given me a 'male brain'. Then I got married, and his sex drive is soooo much *less* than mine. His idea of 'too much' is the same as my definition of 'deprived'. This has taken a VERY long time to come to terms with, because I felt so dysfunctional because I'd always been told that all men are sex fiends. So of course, him wanting it less than me made me feel even more depraved and ashamed.
That sounds horrible. Also sex drive is not something that you can manipulate manually. People are different this way and they meant to be regardless of gender. I am sorry that you think that you are deprived. You are NOT and NEVER has been just because you have a high sex drive or even if would not have any.
It’s also sad that she had to force herself to joke and laugh at her crying over the whipped cream on their honeymoon thing. Like, nothing about that is remotely funny or okay… that’s absolutely a trauma response and the fact that she’s crying makes me think she was terrified…which is again so not humorous or okay. It’s incredibly scary that Paul has made her feel like that response was funny. He has such an immature entitled personality and it makes me wanna slap him silly.
Lmao I used to housesit for the gottmans, and John's thing is that he can tell if a couple isn't going to stay together within like 10 minutes or something. I would be so nervous talking to them, especially with my boyfriend there too, because I felt like they were always analyzing everything I did
Thank you for posting this! When Morgan said she cried when Paul busted out the whipped cream, and you said that’s a trauma response, I had a breakthrough. I’m ALLERGIC to any sort of pressure or expectation in the bedroom. I figured it had to do with me being on the ace spectrum or my attachment style or struggles with anxiety, but now looks like we can add growing up in purity culture to that list. Off I go to unpack that at the age of 32! 🙃
Being pressured into having sex despite being mad at the partner and definitely not being in the mood (instead of trying to make up) would just make me feel like my partner cares nothing about my emotions and only sees me as a sexual object that's there for them to use whenever they feel like it.
@@vhillarygg1807 It really really isn't. That is how it's been used by the power structure of the mainstream church for a long time, and there certainly are depictions of patriarchal family arrangements in the bible, but that doesn't mean the Bible itself is promoting them. Jesus himself actually subverts patriarchal norms in marriage and the domination of women all throughout his ministry. This is something that some of us are working to correct, and I think it's important to own the past wrongs of the church while making the distinction between the misinterpretations of history and the actual message of the Bible.
Thanks Mickey for another great analysis! Does anyone else notice how Morgan appears to diminish/shrink herself around Paul? This is just an observation as I don't know them personally, but I just get the sense that Paul doesn't take Morgan seriously, and therefore leads to her not taking herself seriously either. The constant giggling and speaking without conviction makes me a bit sad for her. We all deserve someone who listens and respects us.
I grew up in a very similar circle as Paul and Morgan. I really wish parents would stop teaching their sons that sex something for them to take from a woman. That they are not entitled to nor do they “deserve” it. That it’s ok if their partner doesn’t want to have sex right after a fight. 🤦🏼♀️🤦🏼♀️
As a guy of a different persuasion, the culture dumped on me through social media and many other things puts the act as the most valued part, I can say that I fall into more the Morgan category of wanting intimacy, of the few times I’ve actually done things with others, the ones that have felt the most pleasing and happy were with people who were kind and that we took time to build it, I would say I definitely want to be more ready to go into it without all of the intimacy but I believe that it’s just who I am, I just need to give myself time to change that. I feel sometimes like the situation is such a chore and call myself Demi although it’s probably not the most accurate. I like hearing your take on things and it’s good to say that it’s not just a female thing to want intimacy more.
For me, when my relationship is good the sex is much better. When it's not great it's awkward and we kind of lose interest (both of us) even if we really wanted to before starting. I tried demi as a label for a bit, but I've settled on grey ace for both romantic and sexual spectrums. It's rare I'm either romantically or sexually attracted to someone and when I am the two are usually, but not always, connected. And the sexual attraction is usually connected to personality (even if it's a stranger it's like how they move or their sense of style not their physical features), but I don't really think demi was ever quite right for me. Because of a combination of not fully understanding myself and not knowing what alternative might be better it was the best I could do for a while, and that was fine. I also enjoy sex as a physical (and even intimate like Mikey says) act even when I'm not attracted to a specific person (that is, my libido is fine, they look fine but I haven't got that attraction spark of "oh I'd like that have sex with this person in particular because they are hot", and I can connect to them as a person I'm sharing something intimate with just not necessarily romantically) and in those cases it's usually better than when a relationship isn't great, worse than good relationship sex. *shrugs* sexuality is weird. And the ace spectrum covers a lot of things. If demi is the closest you can get it's fine, as long as the people who need to understand know what you mean by it then it's serving its purpose (possibly partners so they can decide whether your needs and their needs are compatible, for example. or someone you just want to understand you because you're close to them).
I don't think there's anything wrong with wanting intimacy and emotional connection, and I don't think it's something you have to train yourself out of or change about yourself. I think there are a lot of people out there who prefer this trait in a partner, and many people will tell you that kind of sex can be much more fulfilling than a casual hookup. Thank you for putting this comment out there, you're making it easier for other guys who prefer the intimate connection to speak out without so much shame or taboo around it.
I really appreciate how well you incorporate well spoken, well thought out talk, while giving space for all people...regardless of who is watching...with very real responses to the content you're breaking down.
"These expectations are a product of purity culture." YES! YES! Mickey thank you so much for these videos. You are shining a light that I hope young people (especially women) can see. We didn't have RUclips when I was a teen so it was just good old-fashioned community fear and shame and guilt.. I can't imagine the messages barraging kids these days. It makes me really sad. I hope ALL of them find these kinds of videos, and find a way out.
Thank you for validating ace people and those with low drive. I always feel very seen in both your sex advice and fundy breakdowns. Your vids help so much. Tho tbh something about the latter half of the video triggered something in me. Idk if it was just a culmination of the expectations i was raised with coming back to bite me in the ass? Not sure. But Paul gave me such concerning vibes. Hes not safe. Thank god i left fundamentalism before i finally got into a serious relationship...i cant image the hurt i could have experienced otherwise, because the looks they give eachother is pure resentment 😣
I married into purity culture (I wasn't raised with purity culture but my first boyfriend/husband was and his whole family was fundamentalist), and not only was it made out be that if you followed the rules you would have perfect s3x after marriage, but that EVERYTHING in your marriage would be perfect because "god would bless your marriage". As a child of divorce this was something that was soooo important to me and many other girls in our youth group at the time (I married at 19 so I was definitely still a girl). This stuff is dangerous and PREYS on those of us who maybe had/have a rougher life. It pisses me off so much. >:( Thank you for dissecting, Mickey.
oh my god, i do that. when my husband does something that hurts me i get upset and then…just expect him to realize i’m upset. while i’m sitting here thinking about it, it’s obviously ridiculous, but in the moment i feel so justified. and this is coming from someone who has been married for 12 years and has done years of couples counseling. i am really grateful you called attention to that so i can work on that behavior.
At the 30 minute mark I think it's important to acknowledge that men are conditioned(especially in the fundamentalist world) to funnel all of their intimacy needs into the sex act so it makes sense for him (esp. at the beginning of their relationship like he's talking about) to have felt this deep hurt from what in that perspective if a brutal emotional rejection. My partner and I have been working through this for DECADES. It's tough.
"Bro, I barely know you!" That comment from Morgan was heartbreaking and horrifying all at the same time.
But they did get married quickly because both of them were ready for intimacy and instead of doing it in a safe environment, their culture just told them if they felt this way, put them legal binder on and then figure it out. So in a way if they had done a longer marriage, skipping out waiting, they may have been able to better navigate and learn through Paul’s ongoing expectations for his wife. Morgan could have known and not married OR been able to navigate it as a couple and not “his wife”.
@@kellyire810 That's exactly my point.
Right?! Why did you get married then?! You can't get married to someone you just met!
@@meghanworkman6449 I think they were expanding on it. Like, elaborating.
Really told on themselves in that section hot mess express both of them. it's so sad they don't even realize that this is so wild and wrong
Wowowow, as a survivor of a s*xually abusive relationship, the way Paul talks about just doing it anyway when you're upset with your partner is absolutely horrifying. Morgan's said a lot of harmful shit but God, I hope she gets out of this relationship.
100%
Super scary. At first I thought he was upset with her because she was ignoring his feelings. Then I realized that he was mad because Morgan chose not to have sex with him, despite knowing that it hurt his feelings. I had to pause the video and take a breath. If he's willing to act and speak this way on camera, it makes me really worried about what he's like in private.
Same Adriana, it felt uncomfortable at first that Paul was expressing emotions of feeling hurt & disappointed and she was laughing. That's just "off" behavior with someone that you care about being vulnerable.
But then he went to "you should have just taken up all the emotions labor to make me feel better AND have sex anyway even though you don't want to... red flag. That's not real consent, objectification and coercive.
@@kamrynmiranda4739 The laughter seemed to be nervous laughter :/
totally agree
Paul trying SO hard not to admit to watching porn to “prepare for marriage” is too funny to me
Right? Like dude it's 2023, no one cares.
@@kents.2866 some people care, and some people don't like porn!
The fundies care (they're jealous)
Morgan's "I want him to treat me like a human with feelings before we do it" and acting like that is asking soooo much is heartbreaking.
It's even worse when she turns around and blatantly dismisses his feelings on camera. Like sis no wonder it seems like it's asking sooo much of a man if you're not willing to give him the same courtesy.
Video summery:
Paul: “I was really hoping Morgan would be a total freak in bed but as it turns out when you’re sexually repressed your entire life that’s not possible. Definitely enjoyed my porn research though it left me confused”
Morgan: “yah”
lmao
She wasnt sexually repressed though. Before she met him she was secular and dating etc... When she got with him is when she made the shift
@@CherryBlossomBlyue not really she's definitely repressed or just asexual 🤷🏻♀️
@@oogaboogass She had sex before she got married lol. She's not asexual.
@@CherryBlossomBlyue those two things aren’t exclusive. She had pre-marital sex and then entered a space where this was very frowned upon. She probably got shamed for having had sex and she probably made the connection of sex = bad and I will go to hell for it and suddenly shes expected to make a 180 turn and be totally fine with it and revel in her sexuality
imagine a guy telling a woman to humble herself and have sex with him when she doesn’t feel like it… just imagine 🤬
It’s so scary that this happens so frequently. I can only imagine the mental health issues that some of these partners are having to deal with, because of these situations
Not only telling his wife that BS - but dishing that out to his super impressionable audience as ADVICE. No no no. Wow. Red flag city.
I follow their channel and agree with most of their views but when I heard him say this I was in shock. It seems like she was objectified which is absolutely disgusting for a guy who’s so feminine
@@Shalom-th8ef
It’s disgusting for any guy!
Lol. In his dreams. christian wives are so encouraged to not have boundaries: it's all about relinquinshing control over their own bodies. I hate it.
The women in this culture go from being profoundly protective of their bodies to having a person literally invading invading it. That is terrifying.
100% agree. well put!
That is absolutely true. Also, coming from someone who grew up in the church, women are also told to always please & submit to their husbands. Which can instill the idea that if the wives (in this scenario) were to not be comfortable with what’s going on, they shouldn’t say no. They should just do what their husband wants/says in order to be a “good wife”. And that’s very harmful, and not okay.
That’s exactly it, & it’s horrifying, especially as women in these groups are often told, per Michelle Duggar, to “never say no to sex.”
I have seen Paul’s behavior while Morgan was in labor, & it was all about him. Selfies, with her in labor in the background. There’s something wrong with Paul, as he doesn’t seem to truly care about Morgan’s feelings of fear and pain. I don’t like this marriage. If she wants to be married, a grown man would be preferable.
@@bethmoore7722 first of all is your name a strange coincidence or are you that Beth Moore?
Also, the idea of taking a selfie while your partner is in the most excruciating, possibly life threatening pain of their life is narcissistic to the point of being dangerous. It actually concerns me for the state of both of their mental health and safety.
I grew up in purity culture, and it screwed me up so badly that I freak out when somebody tries to force a kid to hug me. I want to be the Batman of bodily autonomy.
the comment about them barely knowing each other during their honeymoon says it all
definitely
Don’t have sex with people you barely know…marry them first! Tooootally not at all problematic.
I’m sorry, but who the fuck marries someone they barely know?
It's all just so sad.
@@truckerdave8465 nooooo not problematic at all.............,🤦♀️
It's terrible advice and they are so problematic
The crying at the whipped cream made my heart hurt for Morgan. Not only did she have a physical reaction to something happening to her but her partner didn’t have the tools necessary to understand or help her.
I wonder what she will have to say in 10-20 years.
Assuming she gets off the sauce
She’s WASTED in every video
I cannot speak to the topic of her being wasted. However, her behavior is similar to other women I knew when I was in fundamentalism. Thankfully I am out. But women would act like this: fawning over their husband, silly and immature, giggling if they had to say something that made them nervous, etc., because it was the only way to survive under the abusive situation. It is painful for me to watch Morgan because I see so much pain and trauma there.
I hope she’ll get away from him, and the patriarchal fundies, by then. They do everything to take power & agency from women, short of binding their feet. I wish Morgan had a real life, with agency, power, and especially boundaries, ffs.
fight flight freeze and fawn are all trauma responses. you are no longer under your dad's protection once you're married, so most conservative wives are desperate to please as to avoid any excuses for abuse as fundies love victim blaming. i am very worried for morgan as it seems her emotions are not as important to her husband as they should be. i personally would never touch my spouse again without clear and enthusiastic invitation if i accidentally made them so upset they cried (sexily) during intimacy.
@@missmoxie9188 that is quite a reach. even if she did drink before every video, what does that have to do with her revealing such private details of her marriage for the benefit of other under educated couples?
Morgan's uncomfortable laughter always triggers something in me, she just doens't seem okay. It makes me want to pull her aside and ask what's going on with her.
Honestly
I always feel this overwhelmingly so whenever I see her. She always seems uncomfortable in these videos.
Same, I always think her laughter is her muting herself.
It's almost like a Stockholm Syndrome type of situation...
I think she always almost acts odd, like she's either suppressing another personality or like not completely sober tho this is a heavy assumption ofc. I can't really put my finger on it but sometimes definitely off🤷♀️
It’s so uncomfortable like 90% of their conversations center around Paul wanting sex regardless of Morgan’s feelings or comfort and her trying to grapple with that.
For real. Libido mismatches require compromise on both sides. Why isn't the pressure ever on him to just have a date night that doesn't end in sex, or for him to just jerk off once in a while if she isn't in the mood?
The second one might be a religious thing, but masturbation/porn really can play a healthy role in a relationship. Besides, trying to abstain from it never works and you just end up ashamed when you "fail".
They have people like The Transformed Wife teaching them it's the wife's job so to them it's normal.
@@dellybird5394 my marriage had libido mismatch, but my husband made sure it was my free choice, not me caving to pressure. I wish there was more discussion around being a partner that makes sex worth the investment.
Def a result of guys in that world being told that a woman's virginity is their prize... not the person, but the virginity
@@dellybird5394I don't think it's a libido difference, it's a connection difference. She wanted connection and to take it slow, and all he thought of was "awesome, I get to have sex!" Both are completely different desires, but if nurtured, can end up in the same place.
Paul and Morgan should be having these conversations in front of a therapist, not a camera / audience.
Oh my god for real though
Not only that, but they also need to have these conversations with eachother without a camera. This is full of passive aggressive comments towards eachother and this needs so much honest and open convo without the preying eyes of the internet
FR 😬😭
It says everything about their egos that they think this is advice to bestow on other people, rather than airing of issues, which really need addressing with therapy as you rightly point out.
Can you imagine saying you’ve been doing some thing for six weeks and it’s going well and therefore you’re at the level of being an expert and a teacher?! 😂 again, self righteousness and ego 😂
The way he looks at her when she's clearly uncomfortable brings back so many uncomfortable memories of youth group: boys sitting on one side, girls on the other. And the pastor (always a male) would very pointedly look at the girls any time he would bring up the scriptures of women submitting to men. Regardless of how uncomfortable we all were on that side, all the boys followed the pastor's look and would stare at us, some smile, some laugh, some smirk.
It's so........so bad. Paul is a creep. Just like those boys. He only cares about himself. He doesn't think outside of himself. Morgan is only there for his physical self and it's gross. Ugh.
God you can read right through the lines that any time they fight about something he most definitely uses, "Well if you had sex with me more! I wouldn't be angry with you!" against her.
They both make me uncomfortable, but Morgan, girl, you deserve not to be married to a p*rv.
Wow. That memory you brought up blows my mind. Because I've seen a lot of traditional marriages (on the Internet, mind you) where BOTH spouses talk about their obligations to EACH OTHER. It's an unpopular setup that doesn't appeal to a lot these days, but appears to be very rewarding when done with mutual effort and enthusiasm. What you brought up sounds like a patriarchal hellscape, a lopsided social hierarchy that doesn't even value a traditional man the way it does a traditional woman.
@@matisseedgaryoshihara5625 It's very traditional in the Christian world. And it's just accepted. I can't tell you how many girls under 18 were being actively pursued by men nearing 25 and waited until they turned 18 to start "announcing" that they were dating when we all knew that they'd started dating way before that. The way I described it is what it actually is. The way it's "taught" is done so cleverly that even the one teaching doesn't realize what they're doing. And it's worse if they do know.
A lot of already established religious marriages sound equal on the surface. They've been trained to say certain things to sound good. More often, women, like Morgan here, laugh it off. Or try to joke with a smile. It's a submissive act. And a lot of women do it around men without realizing that it's what we've been conditioned to do. To just accept.
I grew up in that environment and genuinely didn't believe women enjoyed sex until I was in my 20s. Marital rape was really normalized in my congregation. I grew up thinking sex was this terrible obligation that women had to fulfill for their husbands. I decided at a young age never to have sex because I didn't want to hurt anyone, especially not someone I cared about. I'm seeing a therapist now and finally trying to date for the first time at age 29. I left the church over a decade ago. It's taken me all that time to process 1) the realization that what I grew up with wasn't just "conservative" but abusive, and 2) the belief that I'm too broken and inexperienced to ever possibly have a normal relationship.
@@danieltaulbee9888 hi. former evangelical here. I'm so sorry you were raised in such an awful environment. I'm very proud of you for getting away and getting help, both very big steps! Good luck on your healing journey my friend❤️
As someone who came from an extremist right wing household, these videos are absolutely instrumental in my healing. Thank you so much for doing what you do!
Grew up gay/ace spectrum in an extremely religious family and state, so I absolutely second this!
Mickey stays classy about it too, extremely helpful. Best of luck & lots of love to anyone healing from this, mental illnesses and/or addiction. ♡♡♡
@@zulemazahir666 Me too! And also I’ve known I was trans from a very young age…. the things they’d say and do to me to try to “get the devil out of me” aren’t appropriate to put into words. Listening to her and Jaclyn Glenn’s videos now that I’ve escaped have been extremely rewarding and healing experiences.
wish you the best on your healing journey
@@zulemazahir666 same here!
@@Thi-Sen I'm so glad you've found some relief through them. I haven't watched Jaclyn in forever!
Genuinely best of luck to you, no one should be made to feel that they're inherently wrong or evil just for being themselves.
I'm not sure how much of Morgan's laughter is "I laugh because otherwise I'd cry" &/or the expectation in fundie worlds that women present only "positive" emotions, but I'm definitely getting some of that vibe.
100% agree
just look at her face the whole time. she rolls her eyes at him so many times, sometimes has this sad and defeated expression on her face, her constant turning her head (and body) away from him.
its all very telling.
I read that as nervous laughter and it looks very concerning to me.
I grew up with depression in a fundamentalist household, and presenting a happy face to the world is expected of men, too. (Although of course, everything is worse for women in fundamentalism)
Some people (myself included) have laughter as their default reaction - whether they're genuinely amused or extremely nervous/uncomfortable or just not knowing how to react at all.
Morgan wasn't a virgin when they married, and sometimes I get the feeling that Paul holds that over her head. Purity culture gives him a license to look down on her. I'm sure he expected her to be more "receptive" to his sexual wants (whipped cream) because she had sex before. That's not how it works Paul!
I completely agree. I think Morgan also probably feels a level of shame associated with the fact that she wasn't a virgin before marriage and feels she has to compensate for it to appease Paul.
@@mckennacartt5507 Exactly my thought!
Paul is imitating Marc Driscoll.
Nailed it.
What I don't understand is how can there be a culture where sex is banned but as soon as you get married you can do kinky sex. Shouldn't this repressive culture say that marriage sex should be non kinky. It would make much more sense and it might be what Morgan was expecting, not to have a sex addict husband.
Paul’s (thinly veiled) anger became very scary toward the end of that video, wow.
Yeah he took it so personally and couldn’t let it go, it was so cringey. It worries me what he’s like when he gets angry off-camera. I feel bad for Morgan.
Yeah, it made me suck in my breath, it was uncomfortable and tense.
It was RADIATING from my phone screen. 😳 I caught myself physically shrinking back.
I know. It was that 'smile' with the twitching in the corner of his mouth that gave me the real heeby jeebies. He freaks me out so much
I'm very worried for Morgan. It's like she knows she deserves her autonomy but is so stuck in a fog, she can't figure out what's wrong with this picture. Paul's entitlement to sex is very scary.
Heres my hot take (Im a PsyD but thats kinda irrelevant) I dont think Morgan likes Paul very much. I think she rushed into a marriage due to religion and then realized theyre not very compatible. BUT because of the religious belief her only option is to keep on working on this relationship bc divorce is not an option. It pains me, bc as arrogant as she can be, I think Paul stiffles her light.
Actually I'm pretty sure in another video of theirs (or book) they mentioned that Morgan had recognized that they weren't compatible before marriage and had suggested they break up, only to have Paul "convince" her otherwise. But yeah you're totally right! (Also congrats on your PsyD!)
For some reason my gut tells me the arrogance people read isn't her genuine self. Idk if this is a thing or not but my gut tells me her arrogant opinions/language/actions are Paul's not hers almost like she is fawning on these videos to please him. It scares me. I think this bc of how she looks at him when she is saying a strong opinion as if to check and see if he agrees. She laughs and lets go of what she seems to feel as her own invalidated opinions and looks away. I just feel like there are fights and toxic shit behaviors happening off camera and between takes and during the editing. She doesn't look comfy in her own skin she looks like a child with an abusive caretaker. I see her in these newer videos and worry about her bc she seemed so different in the older videos when their marriage was newer.
@@SabiLewSounds I agree for the most part, but I remember when she spoke about God is Gray and how horrible she treated her and that was all her. She can be awful on her own.
I think Paul crushes her soul down to nothing when the cameras are off...
their upbringing encourages cognitive dissonance. maybe theres a level where they feel it isnt right, or wish it werent, but they wont allow themselves to actually think that they arent right for each other. in these circles questioning ur marriage is equiv to questioning god. they arent supposed to question god. i do think however that morgan believes this in her own right and not just bc paul does or anyone makes her. her relationship isnt good for her but she has a platform thru it, and shes tempted by the idea that young women look up to/listen to her.
No one is entitled to use of your body EVER. Paul’s statement he “settled for “ Morgan not being pure only makes this so much worse
like...the idea that your partner is someone you "settled for" in any sense is fcked up. like...what you don't think that your partner is the absolute best person????
Paul radiates so much entitlement and contempt all of the time. "Uwu I was so sad that I just wanted to go for a drive when I didn't get sex wah wah wah" made my eyes roll all the way back into my head, but it reveals a deeper pathology that is anything but a trivial joking matter.
Being sad or disappointed when you don't get what you want is perfectly human and normal, but healthy, self-aware, non-self-absorbed people recognize that their inner toddler *is* an inner toddler.
@@dinosaysrawr The sickest thing about this is that cishet men don't act this way about anything else. Tell them there's no icecream today or tell them they have to wait until they can get a new car or tell them they haven't been promoted, they are all Humble Adult about all that. I mean at least they handle those with a normal amount of disappointment. But no sex with their desired partner when THEY want to? HURRDURR HOW DARE YOU WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE THEY ARE OWED THAT, DISHONOR ON YOUR HOUSE, IT IS A LITERAL BIRTHRIGHT, YOU ARE OPPRESSING THEM AND ALSO YOUR MOM
Well, and the fact that he feels like she wasn't a virgin because she was r@p3d is EXTREMELY sick!
@@jcfreak2007 yep
I had the same exact reaction to him saying it’s good to pat your partner on the back, say I love you, and it’s OK we’re mad… and we should still have sex. I mean wtf! That is so manipulative and if I were in that position I’d probably start crying. And I love how he’s allowed to express being hurt they can’t have sex, but she doesn’t seem to be given the space to be upset about whatever they were arguing about which let’s be real, is more important than getting it on every flipping day.
I wonder what it was like after recording the video if he was this upset in front of the camera. "How dare you know I wanted sex and not give it to me!"
If I were in that position _I_ would be the one who leaves and just drives away :'DDD I mean I've literally done that, men who cannot FATHOM a no for an answer and even throw a hissy fit, are not safe to stay around, I have walked out of apartments at 2 AM, better to go home, even on foot, instead of trying to sleep next to creeps like that.
I mean it's harder when you're married to one but ugghhhh I wish she wasn't
They're body language says it all.
Reading the comments before watching the video is shocking because I can't even believe anyone would ever say this sh!t.
As an ace person, I'm very used to hearing any and all thoughts/commentary about sex and thinking "this is fun to hear about, but it isn't applicable to my life and isn't for me." So to hear you briefly acknowledge asexuality as a real thing was so surprising, uplifting, and heartwarming. Thanks Mickey :)
This is why I'm thankful for being ace right now... the toxicity of this patriarchial mindset sends up all sorts of red flags for me!
@@timnewman1172 it's scary to be raised in this culture as an AFAB asexual.
I completely agree. I don’t know if I’m ace because of previous religious trauma or just ace in general, but regardless I’ve avoided the dating world completely because I was told all relationships are held together by sex, and if you aren’t having enough sex your relationship will fail. And I knew from a young age that I wouldn’t be able to satisfy a partner because I never desired it. Now hearing that it’s okay to be asexual and not have a high or functioning libido is really comforting. I’m glad professionals are starting to take asexuality seriously and not as a problem to be fixed.
As a recovering fundamentalist, these therapy-breakdowns of people like Paul and Morgan as well as Girl Defined have been so, so massively meaningful and helpful to me in my healing journey. Thank you so much for these, sincerely.
PS, your hair looks amazing!
Kudos for you to be out of it. Much love in your journey
@@LSnicket Thank you so much. ♥️ I have been out for two years and while it’s still a struggle, I’m improving in therapy day by day. 😊
Same for me
@@shattertheair @mmara that's so great! So happy for both of you and truly proud
You might also like Jordan & McKay, they are ex-Mormon and she is a therapist intern rn so they do similar things.
So... Paul was super excited to have sex, and he began researching. And he... didn't mention this to Morgan? Didn't want to share his sources with her? Didn't ask how she felt about bringing out the whipped cream on the first night??
I'm not convinced these two communicate. They're just two people who live together (and now have a baby).
They have a baby??
The thought of these two having a baby is painful. I fear for that child.
@@caseyw.6550 Yep! As of last month.
@@caseyw.6550 She nearly died because their church/faith tradition pushes home-birthing. Her water broke, and her midwife kept her at home for like 30 hours instead of going to a hospital. She had an infection when they finally got her in for an emergency Caesarean.
@@jencendiary omfg that's so scary! So dangerous.
Mickey when you reaffirmed that it is not right to pout or get mad at your partner for saying no for whatever reason, it healed my heart a little, I almost cried. I’m many years out of a fundamentalist marriage, I feel like Morgan is me if I never left him.
I was also in a relationship where the one time I worked up the courage to say no, he kept acting like he was going to be sexual with me. I said no louder and pushed him away and he started crying because I "looked at him like he was an abuser". After that, I never said no to him again. It was awful and I'm still unpacking all of that. I'm sorry that you went through an entire marriage of that kind of behavior. You deserve a life where people respect your say in things
I was engaged to someone who was JUST like paul and it almost killed me. I get a bit of PTSD-like reactions hearing him talk about obligatory sex because that's what I was told as a soon-to-be wife. thankfully I got out of it but it's going to take years for me to be ready to be with anyone again. it's hard to trust when so much pressure is upon you.
Just wanna say I'm so glad you got out of that situation 🙏💞
So glad you got out.
@@UlexiteTVStoneLexite thank you! i'm grateful every day for it ☺️
I’m glad you got out and I wish you so much love in your recovery ❤️🩹
You take as much time as you need 💕
My honest reaction to the whipped cream story was that Paul thought something like, "So I toughed out with this sl*t until we got married AND NOW IT'S GOING TO PAY OUT," which is just horrifying. It feels like yet another example of his sl*t-shaming attitude. I don't share their religious views, but geez, Morgan tried to improve herself in the way she knew how, and this is how she gets treated.
Your side eye expression and muttering “I wanna honor her experience but…” captured the way I feel for at least 90% of my life
I am SO tired of the mass belief that women don't enjoy sex/sexual activities. That belief is upheld by people who are bad at sex or with someone who is bad at sex.
Louder for the people in the fucking back
They also act like sex and lust is normal and natural for men and will excuse cheating or men having casual sex, but will call women sl*ts and fornicators for being engaged and having sex (let alone having ethical casual sex). The idea that women shouldn't like sex upholds this Madonna/wh*re complex they use to oppress afab people. I hate it especially since they still push sex on you to try to marry it off, but will disown you if you take the time to get to know your partner before marriage.
Or people who aren't good at communicating and listening....thats half the battle tbh
yeah and why do it with someone who doesn't seem to enjoy it?
Me too. I'm so tired of it. I enjoy sex. I love doing it by myself and I love having my husband too. I hate that I grew up in a culture that says women can't enjoy sex as much as a man does. And it's so unfair that if I say I enjoy sex and orgasms, I'm view as dirty and sinful in some way.
One of the things that helped me leave an evangelical cult was a therapist. Not only is this reaffirming the truth of the matter, but it’s cathartic to share information from a therapist.
Big same!!
What was the cult called?
@@kodesh_intentions Road to Life Church NWI. There’s a separate church with the same name in St. Joe that is unaffiliated.
@@ALLCAPSKELL If it doesn't bother you, what did they do that made them a cult/harmful?
@@kodesh_intentions it’s too much to post, but there was sexual harassment from the lead pastor and his (ex) wife done to me and my friends, tax fraud, lying to the congregation (especially about money), child abuse, deliberate cherry-picking of biblical text, abusing staff and volunteers, emotional manipulation and interrogation, not paying staff for their 12-16 hour work days, not honoring vacation time even when there is an emergency, keeping members away from family, and a whole lot more. They got me when I was 17 and I was fully indoctrinated until 2020.
Can we just all agree that "sex books & articles" = porn? OK great, cuz I can't 😂
yup, there's no way he actually picked up an actual good book about sex.
@@AW-uv3cb cause the first resource he would have come across is "communicate with your partner"
100% lmao. and then he goes on to say (or not say) that he watched porn to be prepared for marriage 😆 like brooo
The body language is something else! So many times she "laughs" and then she looks away from him---extremely uncomfortable! I also love watching your expressions! They illustrate my feelings pretty accurately.
Her laughing is striking me an anxious performance to alleviate discomfort and present an image that these uncomfortable things aren't really a problem.
Thank you for always remembering and validating te Aspec community! I love watching the expressions on your face as you watch, I have a funny feeling mine are pretty much the same :)
I also found it funny when Paul said he was up for anything. As a BDSM educator, I guarantee that there are things he wants nothing to do with LOL We always warn people against saying "I'm up for anything!" or "I have no limits!" is a huge red flag. Everyone has limits and no one is up for everything and that's okay!!
To give credit where it’s due it was actually the Aspec community who helped educate me! I’ve definitely made some mistakes in the past when speaking about the topic and the community was so kind in educating me and holding me accountable to growing so I definitely don’t want to take all the credit lol!
To be fair, I think the imaginations of most evangelicals are generally pretty limited, so their idea of "kinky" is "fluffy handcuffs" and "doing a position other than missionary." :D
I’d like to hear more about this BDSM education, please! I’m still kind of new to it, as I’m exploring my sexuality kind of late (I’m almost 30!), but I want to learn more :)
@@QueenCloveroftheice if you'd like a great source for bdsm education I have to recomend Evie Lupine on RUclips. She really does the best job I've seen of explaining all different bdsm orientations and practices in a respectful and informative way.
As someone that's also uncomfortable with "negative" emotions due to upbringing, I know Morgan's laughter. It's the same way I laugh in therapy when I have to talk about tough topics. She's laughing because she'd cry or scream otherwise and feels like she isn't allowed to. I just want to give her my hand and help her. She seems so miserable.
Exactly. For me, if I’m laughing about a moment I was really upset within, then I’m obviously still upset about it.
I think that the comment made by Paul about how he feels if they don't have sex is very interesting. Given their "traditional" gender roles, sex is likely the only form of intimacy and vulnerability he allows himself to have.
That or here's just like 80% of men out there. Simply want a fuck, even if she says, "I'm not sure"
Because anything that's not a no, is a yes 🙄
Oh damn I never thought of that. He’s still trash but honestly that’s interesting
They both honestly seem so uncomfortable to be sitting in front of the camera talking about their sex lives. I can imagine them arguing about it the second they stop rolling.
She’s likely uncomfortable because women are judged very differently in her world, so he’s exposing her to very real criticism when he insists on publicizing their s€x lives. It reminds me of how Marc Driscoll did the same to his wife.
Ikr? Especially, when he was like "You knew I was hurt? And just rolled over and went to bed?"
25:35 I really don't like how Paul puts the blame on Morgan for not being aware of/communicating her sexual needs, rather than blaming himself for not being attentive to her needs.
Sure Morgan should have communicated what she needed to him better, but it really shocks me that he was expecting her to be 100% satisfied without any cuddling or conversation.
I'm baffled that he never asked her what her needs were and in the video how resistant he is because of his bullshit "men are from Mars" mentality. I wonder if she feels safe communicating those needs in all honesty.
When Paul conflated sex with being super emotional you could tell that was the only way he felt emotional connection and validation. Toxic masculinity is awful.
The most disturbing part to me is when Paul said he felt like leaving and getting in his car and driving away just because she didn't want to have sex on a night it was planned. Ugh.
I'd say it's ok for him to go for a drive to calm down and clear his head so he could gone back to talk things out.
@@openlybookish It is not okay that he would get upset in the first place
@@sugoisenpai92 I agree, but I think if someone needs space to calm down then they should whether that's going for a walk or drive then they can come back to be able to talk rationally vs angry.
She would have been better off if he had (and stayed gone), honestly.
Reading the comments before watching the video is shocking because I can't even believe anyone would ever say this sh!t.
My jaw dropped when he said you should still ask for sex when your partner is mad- that’s insane
When my partner and I get into a little disagreement and I'm upset, I don't want to look at him until I process my emotions. I especially don't want to be touched. Can't imagine.
Reading the comments before watching the video is shocking because I can't even believe anyone would ever say this sh!t.
So many good things from this video!
1) As someone who’s Autistic/ADHD, I thought the distinction between “I feel hurt by X” vs “You (partner) hurt me by ______” is a HUGE thing for me!!
My (newly married) spouse and I have dealt with this confusion a bit since I got diagnosed early last year (I’m in my early 30s) and it’s hard for me to sus out what’s *really* going on when I can’t process my emotions and it takes me longer to process what’s going on (hours most of the time).
Thank you for that golden nugget of advice/wisdom Mickey! I’ll definitely be using it as a tool now and in the future!!
2) Also, as someone who grew up in Purity Culture, it literally took me until a few months ago to realize that it’s OK to say No when you’re not in the mood for sex.
I’ve been out of the culture for 14-15 years now and, up until recently, I had this default mode on in my mind that told me that I should get into the mood if my partner was, even though I wasn’t. I didn’t even know where it came from and how it latched on so deeply in my psyche but I’m glad I addressed it!!
I also think that Purity Culture/Christianity doesn’t approve of masturbati*n/solo pleasure away from one’s partner. If you engage in it, it’s a sin and you’re fulfilling your desires away from the One God has for you and it’s seen as a form of cheating…when honestly, it’s needed and welcome when you have two people with different libidos.
I swear, Purity Culture and Christianity just make things so complicated, convoluted and messy it blows even my own mind sometimes (and I grew up in that subculture too)!
I would be cringing if I weren’t so angry and sad that purity and patriarchal culture have made sex such a minefield for everyone, especially for women. This video feels very validating though, thanks Mickey, we need more conversations about this 💯
100% agree
Yeah all the stuff they had to unlearn could have been avoided if they were raised with a healthier attitude about sex.
It's not something you can hide away in a little box until your wedding night. You need space to safely explore it and make mistakes before you are legally bound to someone.
The best advice on sex I've ever gotten was from an interview with a therapist in the newspaper, and she just said "Often times we view sex with a partner as a duty or something that regularly should happen. But that's the worst approach. Sex should never happen out of duty. You have to imagine sex as a big wildflower meadow. It's beauty and beautiful. It's natural. It's creative too. So if you feel like having sex with your partner, don't do it out of duty, but because you feel like it. Maybe don't immediately go for the private parts. Kiss and smooch a little. Learn to know the spots you and your partner likes, maybe the neck or something else. Take your time with it, and if it doesn't up end in sex but you're just smooching, that's perfectly fine as well."
This is great advice & it sounds like one of those things where just take things off the table and see where things go, enjoy the moment and a good time will be had by all!
💯
It took us forever to get through this video because I kept having to pause and scream at some of their "advice" (usually right before Mickey did, LOL). The worst was the last bit; when Paul suggested that you roll over to your partner and scratch their back and say, "Hey, we might not figure this out tonight but I love you"--my heart melted and I thought, "Hey, that's actually good". But my guard was down and it was immediately stabbed by the words "AND HAVE SEX ANYWAY". He not only feels like r@pe/coercion is part of a loving relationship, but he's advising other couples to ALSO force s3x if one partner wants it, while trying to coerce Morgan on camera to agree with him that it's good to have s3x when you don't want to! It's like Inception: r@pe culture edition, so many terrible layers. I try so hard to have empathy for his entitled @ss when I watch these videos b/c he is also a victim of their weird fundie culture, but I hit a wall now and I just hate him. I can't stop hating him right now, he's too much of a r@pey trash fire and wants Morgan to basically be some kind of Mommy/wh0re mash-up where she soothes his hurt feelings at the expense of his own and offers s3x on demand. I can only imagine how much of a man-baby he is now that there's another baby in the house demanding her time, too, and actually deserving it. Ugh, ugh, ugh. She deserves better than this. ALL WOMEN deserve better. Ugh.
Whew, the video is being dragged in the comments (from their own viewers even, not yours!) and it looks like they've maybe done 1 video together since that one was released. I hope that means they're doing some self-reflection behind the scenes. I mean, I doubt Paul is, but hey--I am wrong sometimes.
Imagine saying "Bro, I barely know you" on your honeymoon.
it's absolutely incredible they filmed and edited this and thought it was a good idea to post it. it is so humiliating and makes their marriage seem super dysfunctional
Hopefully it’ll discourage anyone from taking their advice
Hundred percent! 😬
I’m so glad my partner and I are autistic. We KNOW the other person might not pick up on hints or might misunderstand a situation, so we just…ask, or express how we feel. We both accept that it’s our own responsibility to communicate feelings if we’re able. Sometimes we aren’t, but we agree not to take it out on each other while we figure it out.
This is so good to hear as a late diagnosed autistic adult myself. I'm absolutely terrified of dating because I was abused as a child and saw a lot of borderline fundamentalist Christian attitudes within my home, and a lot of Christian fundamentalist values in my very conservative community growing up. I still am not sure I believe that healthy relationships actually exist, but I'd like to think that someday maybe I can have some companionship.
@@millenial90 They take work, but I can promise you that they do exist. I grew up in a terribly abusive household and so did my partner, and we both worked very hard to support each other and grow beyond what our fathers taught us. We now have an amazingly healthy 11-year relationship. It’s almost the exact opposite of what you (and I) probably grew up understanding as a “legitimate” one: poly, queer, and ace. I never imagined myself in a healthy relationship because I had no model of one-it turns out I was just looking in the wrong place. I won’t say it’s been an easy road for us because we both grew up in such awful families, but if I can find someone who matches me as well as my partner does, so can you!
@@millenial90 Tiny anecdote by way of example: tonight I was telling my partner how I’d been talking in therapy about all of the traumatic invalidation I’ve experienced in my life and they said, “I feel like I’ve contributed to that in the past, and I’m sorry for that.” We both learned how not to repeat what was taught to us and that’s made our relationship amazing.
Being emotionally mature for a relationship is a BARE MINIMUM and not a "special" thing
@@cosmicreef5858 …okay?
Yeah, no. That whole speech he did about being angry and disappointed when they weren’t going to have sex is the shame stuff my ex pulled when he tried to guilt me into changing my no into a yes. It’s coercion 100%. Him saying “humble yourself” and just have sex anyway made my skin crawl.
P.S. I escaped, and my current relationship is much healthier!
If only a fundamental’s video on sex included ONE sentence on consent.
Their video did the opposite of talking about consent. He openly confessed to coercing her into changing her mind about sex, and that’s assauIt
I'm scared for Morgan. She does not seem safe or happy. I'm truly wishing the best for her. He is scary.
i’m Christian but this video was very helpful for me. i’ve always struggled with the concept of sex because of the way i was raised. i think it’s very important to distinguish between the actual teachings of Jesus and the harmful fundamentalism that has emerged culturally that is not inherent to Jesus’ teachings. i feel calmer today, thank you!
I was/am in a similar boat! Hannah Witton’s RUclips channel really helped me feel more comfortable learning about and talking about sex.
I agree! I actually was listening to another podcast about Christian sex and things that one partner may want to do that another may not want to do, the phrase that stuck out was “Is it kind?”
The Jesus talks about treating someone as we ourselves would want to be treated.
I agree we need to meet each other needs but I dont think we shouldn’t put our partners needs below ours. That’s how we love each other like Jesus would have us 💕
These two are a perfect argument for not waiting for marriage to get sexual experience ( safety, and with care and respect for yourself and others).
So from Paul's perspective he waited until marriage and now he can get sex on demand because by waiting he earned it. He feels by virture of being a virgin until marriage that he's already done everything he needs to be entitled to sex.
It seems like he believes that Morgan should have understood this and by marrying him she automatically agreed that he has already earned sex from her.
It seems like he never considered that waiting until marriage wasn't enough to "earn" sex from his wife.
I think he's irritated that it takes more work and communication to have sex that Morgan wants to have and can enjoy having. He's confused that she has her own expectations because he feels like she already consented to meet his expectations when they got married.
I feel like he's only capitulating to her to get what he wants because he know that's the only way he'll get sex. Meeting her needs is a chore he has to do have sex that he feels he shouldn't have do. I don't think he's even considers that sex is reciprocal. What morgan wants is unnecessary because he's done all the work (waiting) that he was willing to do. Meeting her expectations and desires is never something he wants to have to have the burden of doing.
I'm not willing to do anything for you but you already agreed to do what I want so I expect to get it. Its cruel to take away something you promised me.
I don't imagine that either one of them is enjoying their sex life as much as they could if were both got pleasure from mutal respect understanding and a desire to please and be pleased.
I dont know why someone would want sex from someone who didn't really want to be there.
I was all ready to ask why there wasn't a mention of how harmful purity culture is for men, but by the time I got to the end I understood. There was such a difference in the way their hurt was treated: Morgan's hurt was funny, and treated like something she needed to communicate, but Paul's hurt needed to be catered to, to the point that years later he was deeply, publicly offended that Morgan didn't prioritize him, and pressed the point that she should. Yes, this kind of culture sets men up for hurt when they don't get the love and connection they are promised from these transactions, but they have also been given so much power that they tend to just double down, hurting their partners even more in the process. While they are victims of the system, they are also the primary perpetrators, so it can be hard to have any sympathy. They're doing it to themselves, and hurting others even worse.
You are also not being a “tease,” if you take sexual contact off the table, because right it just not an okay time. I've had to face this bs criticism and it was incredible painful.
The fact that these two are now parents makes their views even scarier. I'm worried for their child (and future children as I'm *sure* they will have more). They're not going to learn healthy information about sex and their bodies and could end up in potentially dangerous situations because of it.
I wouldn't be surprised if the dad molests them. He seems like the type to only enjoy sex with those that can't or reluctantly consent.
There's no way he enjoys consensual sex
I think the not thinking about sex/avoiding "lustful" thoughts is a huge part of the problem with the emotional/physical connection problem Morgan was talking about. If you allow yourself to feel and think sexual things without shame or guilt, you can allow yourself to imagine and come to conclusions about what you may want. Shocker, allowing yourself to imagine what you might want can help you realize what you want. Kinda like having dinner, you gotta think about what you want sometimes to figure out what flavor of gravy you want with your mashed taters. Making even just thinking about sex or having "lustful" thoughts shouldn't be a bad thing, and yet they've made it that way, and that's just gonna make things more difficult.
Exactly!
So true. Avoiding "lust" while also getting yourself in the mood for sex is an impossible task.
Also if Paul was allowed to look at porn and jerk off, I doubt he would be so hurt when Morgan turns him down. Both of them would be happier if they could explore this stuff by themselves guilt-free.
Your spouse can't be the gatekeeper for your entire sexuality. That is way too much pressure to put on someone.
I think there’s a difference between lust and natural sexual desires. Natural sexual desires are just like you admire the beauty of that other person and the thought of having a more intimate relationship with them is nice. Lust is when you reduce a person into a sexual object.
16:45 The expectations from sex advice / porn problem goes way beyond fundie circles. That goes for any culture that lacks high quality, comprehensive sex ed. Or any group that doesn’t talk openly and honestly about different sexual experiences. People get info secret-squirrel style from dubious sources
If you want info, find some well-reviewed websites and books like PlannedParenthood or Scarleteen. Right now, I’m reading *Come as You Are*, which I’m finding helpful and encouraging.
Yes yes yes! I love Scarleteen and Go Ask Alice, I read/watched them so much as a teen long before I had sex and I sent them to my other friends too. Even though I'm ace and I wasn't sure if I ever wanted to have sex, I wanted to be prepared if I did. I'm Christian and made the personal choice to wait, but it was about empowerment and owning my sexuality for me. Despite being raised in a non-denominational conservative household, I was lucky enough not to be raised in purity culture, and my parents were pretty "sex-positive" though they wouldn't have used that word.
I'm also really grateful to the radio show Loveline. I listened to it for years growing up and it really helped me to be informed about many common teenage and relationship issues before my friends and I encountered them in our own lives.
I would just like to add that Morgan was in former relationship that she said was abusive. She said she had sex with this man. I don't know all that happened in that relationship but she might have bringing trauma into her relationship with Paul and the lack of communication between them could have been very triggering for her and creating new trauma. The fact that Paul "forgave" her for her past sexual history is concerning. This might not be Morgan but I know there are a lot girls that are made to feel that they have to be forgiven for being raped/sexually assaulted because they are not virgins.
I wonder what Morgan's dad was like, because these abusive relationships are likely a symptom of not having a positive male role model.
💯
Paul: "[Intimacy] takes work"
Mickey: Looks at the camera like she's on the Office
🤣🤣🤣
Coming out of purity culture myself, I can say everything Mickey observed is 100 percent accurate. My honeymoon was traumatic for me but i laughed it off just like her. I still have issues with certain issues regarding sex because of this mentality like Paul and Morgan promote. Thank you Mickey for addressing this. Its very theraputic
I'm gay and grew up in a small conservative town as the only very out gay kid. My family was very supportive, and I'm eternally grateful for that. But kids at school would assault me and vandalize my locker and possessions, threaten me, assault me, etc. Teachers told me I was going to hell & am an abomination. At my first job as a teenager my supervisor said the same & told me I could never really love someone or have a real marriage because I'm a deviant. My whole life I've dealt with people who have treated me like this while doing this to their kids. I always felt awful for the people raised in this culture. It's so blatantly abusive, cruel, and wrong. They use fear and shame as weapons to brainwash children into believing that women are property, even if they dress it up in pretty words. Ultimately, they hated me for refusing to be controlled by their beliefs. Looking back, they thought I damaged the sanctity of marriage, the minds of other kids, and was an evil mockery of all things good and natural, but these things were what they were. I can't think of anything more evil than making children ashamed to control them and using someone's genuine desire to be good as a tool to beat them into submission so they can be controlled, violated, and abused by the people who are supposed to love and protect them. I'm so, so sorry that you want through that and I'm glad it's finally being talked about and brought to the light.
@@Nosfermarki I am so sorry for all that you went through also. It is an abusive environment and I am so thanfkul we can share our stories more openly now. But its taken years for many of us. Its a tough world to live in as is, but adding this culture to the mix is even harder. I am so glad you had some support and I wish you well on all you do.
i was really hoping you'd make a video about this. i grew up in this culture and it was the reason i stayed in a sexually abusive/sexually coercive relatonship, but almost no one who did a video on it was able to recognize the subtle implications of what paul especially is saying
As an ace person this is something I’ve thought a lot about, but in the video it’s mentioned a lot that this is a product of purity culture. While purity culture makes this worse, this is pervasive everywhere in our society. Morgan is echoing a bunch of issues that come from the fact that our society is based on an assumption that everyone has sex and everyone has it in a way that has already been previously agreed upon by the society i.e. how often, how kinky, etc. I think it would be nice to acknowledge that everyone struggles with this not just religious fundamentalists.
Fellow ace here. You are spot on. Thanks for representing. :)
Fellow ace and completely this. This is why it took me sooooo long to recognize that I fall into the ace spectrum. I mean I'm more demisexual, but it took me ages to realize that I was.
Absolutely. For some of us sexuality is a delicate bloom, easily destroyed by crass pervy kink, that the other person mistakes for intimacy. A total turn off.
So true. I'm ace and married to a generally allo person, but our marriage helped him explore his sexual expression and now he talks about recognizing that he's "a little bit ace" too.
Even being ace and having communicated my boundaries and expectations from the beginning of our relationship, and having them affirmed and respected, I still worried for the first few years of our marriage. Since I had it in my head that I had to balance my ace-ness with his 'regular' allosexual needs, I feared that it could be a sign that something was wrong if we weren't doing it at a frequency that society deems "normal." Being able to let that go and just be us has been so nice.
Mickey: I just wanted to let Paul finish
Me: he needs to let Morgan finish!!!
RIGHT? 😂😂😂
i grew up roman catholic in poland and watching them talk about this stuff brings back bad memories 😐 i'm still healing from years of hearing how masturbation is 'self r word' or 'church needs families so you should have 3 kids by the time you're 25'. i'm ace and that's one of the many reasons why i left church. as far as i was taught and read up sources... it's good to be celibate and abstain if you experimence ~lust and temptation~ but if you lack that? there's something wrong with you! the pressure to conform when you're afab is awful, you're taught to pray for a good husband but also accept whoever "god sends you" bc marriage is for life!!1 my parents are still hiding their divorce from relatives 🤡
I also grew up roman catholic in Poland! I'm not ace but the focus on the family, and getting married or staying celibate being the only valid choices also drew me away from the church (among other stuff).
yooo fellow ace ex-catholic comrade, you're so right! It's bizaare, for years I thought it was perhaps "better" that I lacked temptation but they hated that too! They want everyone's sexuality to be a switch they flip on right after the marriage ceremony to a near stranger, it's insane!
Even though I am ace, I've still had to unpack some unhealthy concepts about sex and sexuality, and I've found a lot I enjoy about myself even though I'm not "sexually" attracted to others and not interested in having sex with others. Like, I'm happy being who I am! If I am "single" forever, or if my feelings ever do change, all those things I feel are totally okay and normal for me to want. It's such a relief to be able to allow that and be open to, even if my sexuality is "not typical" to most people's experience.
I think my biggest aspec/arospec experience was in high school I would go on dates with guys sometimes because there was a lot of pressure to "give them a chance" and before the date I would spend like an hour sitting somewhere and trying SO hard to think positive thoughts about the guy I was going out with and trying trying *trying* to conjure up those bubbly feelings I was "supposed to have" towards the opposite gender. It was intensely artificial, and it wasn't good for me. I'm glad I don't have to put on such an act anymore.
And that's why so many Polish young people are leaving Poland. I've lived in Canada for 28 years but my sisters are still in Poland and thankfully my dad's family wasn't very religious but many of their friends are married with multiple kids and miserable. Also let's add in that mental health issues aren't taken very seriously or even mocked 😢
I cannot imagine having an expectation that when my partner is upset with me or we're not in a good place that they "humble themselves" and sleep with me. Not only is that not their responsibility but I would never EVER want to sleep with someone who was doing it despite not wanting to, especially a partner I love and value. I would never be able to have sex knowing it's not what my partner wants. I would feel so gross.
That would literally harm them in the worst way. I agree that why would anyone sane do that?
Legit. I don't understand how someone can do that.
💯 Is it just women who don't wanna be intimate when they're hurt/angry? Do guys not respond that way?
That is exactly how I was assaulted by a previous partner 👀 We had a fight, I tried to go to sleep, he refused to let me sleep until after I gave in.
Ewww that's so awful
I'm so sorry
I’m so sorry. Me too. The only way I can describe it is violated and soiled. I find it hard to believe that a person who has sex, knowingly with an unwilling partner, truly believes that what they are doing is loving or intimate. It is abuse and coercion. We deserve better. It isn’t okay. Our bodies belong to our selves. Best wishes.
😥 this makes me so sad. i hope you're finding peace and healing. you deserve better than that.
@@sarahhale-pearson533 honestly it's sexual assault if it's not consensual.
I am a person who is in the same religion as Paul and Morgan. I recently read "Pure" by Linda Kay Klein. If anyone reading this needs a book to help you process and heal from purity culture, I highly recommend this book. I have been married for 11 years and have just recently (after having kids) started to be so much more comfortable with my own body and sexuality. Thankfully my husband is NOT like Paul, and he supports/understands if it is not a good time to have sex. He also is not under this weird "have sex every other night" scheduled expectation. We have sex when we feel like it and we are both connected with each other. I want to say that I think a lot of this trouble with the man having an entitled attitude towards sex is taught by the church, because they say sex is how men most feel loved, so if you are withholding from your husband, he will go look for it elsewhere. This is not a healthy thing! It's a fear tactic. Thank you for bringing this up in your videos and providing a professional perspective. Your videos are helping me get over incorrect thought processes and unhealthy expectations I have of myself that are a byproduct of purity culture.
Growing up fundie, I thought that I was deeply broken because I have a high libido. It's taken almost 30 years to deprogram myself and there's still things that pop up and I have to acknowledge that, wait, that's not right. You are always a work in progress.
9:39-"Bro! I barely know you" 'but I still legally bound myself to you.' Yeah, cause that makes so much sense.
YIIIIIKES. As someone who does not maintain long term relationships, I’m just seeing the “we have maybe a few weeks left” signs stapled all over their foreheads. She seems super uncomfortable, he seems super angry, and they shouldn’t be talking about/to each other like this IN PUBLIC. Especially since it seems they didn’t talk about it with each other first. Wow.
Considering the culture they live in and how public their platform is, I would imagine they'll force themselves to stick it out another couple years at least. It definitely won't be happy though
🚩🚩🚩🚩 „Bro I barely know you!“ 🚩🚩🚩🚩
HUGE RED FLAAAAG
The way Morgan nervously laughs and seemingly attempts to shrug off her own emotions is so hard to watch for me. I was in an emotionally abusive relationship for 6 months, but they messed me up wildly. The way they seem unable to properly communicate their needs and especially the way Paul expects Morgan to be the one initiating some form resolution after a fight is really hard to watch. My ex would do a similar thing if I upset or dissapointed him; leave me and not talk to me until I initiated it. It left me with an almost ptsd-like reaction to potentially dissapointing people out of the fear of then hating and/or leaving me if I didn’t submit. I hope Morgan won’t ever experience the same.
Purity culture messed me up in so many ways and caused me to accept coersion as okay. I pick up misogyny vibes here, and my heart goes out to Morgan for getting the brunt of it and Paul for being taught these messed-up ideas. I'm not justifying his behavior; I find it deeply triggering from my past.
Thank you so much, Mickey, for doing this. It brings me closer to freedom and healthy mindsets about sex and relationships. I appreciate your insight!
paul seriously gives me the ick.
the thinly veiled anger at the end sent off huge warning bells in my head, speaking as someone who's been in an emotionally abusive relationship.
just, yikes on trikes all the way down
This was literally painful to watch. Paul scares me.
He definitely has a creeper vibe surrounding him...
I CANNOT get over their sex schedule. Like sure I guess that works for some people but the way they imply that's the way to go... Well it doesn't sound like it's working for THEM honestly
Omg this brings up so much.
I was told so much that sex was my 'duty', to be always 'joyfully available' no matter how I felt about it.
It led to me being somewhat hypersexual, because if I'm supposed to have it whenever, I have to be thinking of sex to be always sort of 'in the mood', at least a little bit.
Which then led to a lot of shame, because we're also told that women don't have sex drives. I absolutely do, and that made me think maybe god had screwed up and given me a 'male brain'.
Then I got married, and his sex drive is soooo much *less* than mine. His idea of 'too much' is the same as my definition of 'deprived'.
This has taken a VERY long time to come to terms with, because I felt so dysfunctional because I'd always been told that all men are sex fiends. So of course, him wanting it less than me made me feel even more depraved and ashamed.
That sounds horrible.
Also sex drive is not something that you can manipulate manually. People are different this way and they meant to be regardless of gender.
I am sorry that you think that you are deprived. You are NOT and NEVER has been just because you have a high sex drive or even if would not have any.
The Bible literally calls sex a "marital duty" or something that's "due" so no wonder it's so F'ed up!
It’s also sad that she had to force herself to joke and laugh at her crying over the whipped cream on their honeymoon thing. Like, nothing about that is remotely funny or okay… that’s absolutely a trauma response and the fact that she’s crying makes me think she was terrified…which is again so not humorous or okay. It’s incredibly scary that Paul has made her feel like that response was funny. He has such an immature entitled personality and it makes me wanna slap him silly.
Agreed
Lmao I used to housesit for the gottmans, and John's thing is that he can tell if a couple isn't going to stay together within like 10 minutes or something.
I would be so nervous talking to them, especially with my boyfriend there too, because I felt like they were always analyzing everything I did
Thank you for posting this! When Morgan said she cried when Paul busted out the whipped cream, and you said that’s a trauma response, I had a breakthrough. I’m ALLERGIC to any sort of pressure or expectation in the bedroom. I figured it had to do with me being on the ace spectrum or my attachment style or struggles with anxiety, but now looks like we can add growing up in purity culture to that list. Off I go to unpack that at the age of 32! 🙃
Being pressured into having sex despite being mad at the partner and definitely not being in the mood (instead of trying to make up) would just make me feel like my partner cares nothing about my emotions and only sees me as a sexual object that's there for them to use whenever they feel like it.
Yeah, that's called r@pe when one partner is unwilling/obligated.
As a christian...like full blown christian... i am deeply concerned with this relationship lol.
As another full-blown Christian, so am I. YIKES.
This is pretty much the culture the bible enforces regarding sex and this is more liberal it worse in history
Why?
@@vhillarygg1807
The bible doesn’t enforce that.
@@vhillarygg1807 It really really isn't. That is how it's been used by the power structure of the mainstream church for a long time, and there certainly are depictions of patriarchal family arrangements in the bible, but that doesn't mean the Bible itself is promoting them. Jesus himself actually subverts patriarchal norms in marriage and the domination of women all throughout his ministry. This is something that some of us are working to correct, and I think it's important to own the past wrongs of the church while making the distinction between the misinterpretations of history and the actual message of the Bible.
Thanks Mickey for another great analysis! Does anyone else notice how Morgan appears to diminish/shrink herself around Paul? This is just an observation as I don't know them personally, but I just get the sense that Paul doesn't take Morgan seriously, and therefore leads to her not taking herself seriously either. The constant giggling and speaking without conviction makes me a bit sad for her. We all deserve someone who listens and respects us.
I……… so absolutely and completely wish the worst for him.
I'm so baffled that they looked at this video and thought "heaven yeah this is a great thing to post!"
I grew up in a very similar circle as Paul and Morgan. I really wish parents would stop teaching their sons that sex something for them to take from a woman. That they are not entitled to nor do they “deserve” it. That it’s ok if their partner doesn’t want to have sex right after a fight. 🤦🏼♀️🤦🏼♀️
As a guy of a different persuasion, the culture dumped on me through social media and many other things puts the act as the most valued part, I can say that I fall into more the Morgan category of wanting intimacy, of the few times I’ve actually done things with others, the ones that have felt the most pleasing and happy were with people who were kind and that we took time to build it, I would say I definitely want to be more ready to go into it without all of the intimacy but I believe that it’s just who I am, I just need to give myself time to change that. I feel sometimes like the situation is such a chore and call myself Demi although it’s probably not the most accurate. I like hearing your take on things and it’s good to say that it’s not just a female thing to want intimacy more.
For me, when my relationship is good the sex is much better. When it's not great it's awkward and we kind of lose interest (both of us) even if we really wanted to before starting. I tried demi as a label for a bit, but I've settled on grey ace for both romantic and sexual spectrums. It's rare I'm either romantically or sexually attracted to someone and when I am the two are usually, but not always, connected. And the sexual attraction is usually connected to personality (even if it's a stranger it's like how they move or their sense of style not their physical features), but I don't really think demi was ever quite right for me. Because of a combination of not fully understanding myself and not knowing what alternative might be better it was the best I could do for a while, and that was fine.
I also enjoy sex as a physical (and even intimate like Mikey says) act even when I'm not attracted to a specific person (that is, my libido is fine, they look fine but I haven't got that attraction spark of "oh I'd like that have sex with this person in particular because they are hot", and I can connect to them as a person I'm sharing something intimate with just not necessarily romantically) and in those cases it's usually better than when a relationship isn't great, worse than good relationship sex.
*shrugs* sexuality is weird. And the ace spectrum covers a lot of things. If demi is the closest you can get it's fine, as long as the people who need to understand know what you mean by it then it's serving its purpose (possibly partners so they can decide whether your needs and their needs are compatible, for example. or someone you just want to understand you because you're close to them).
I don't think there's anything wrong with wanting intimacy and emotional connection, and I don't think it's something you have to train yourself out of or change about yourself. I think there are a lot of people out there who prefer this trait in a partner, and many people will tell you that kind of sex can be much more fulfilling than a casual hookup. Thank you for putting this comment out there, you're making it easier for other guys who prefer the intimate connection to speak out without so much shame or taboo around it.
I really appreciate how well you incorporate well spoken, well thought out talk, while giving space for all people...regardless of who is watching...with very real responses to the content you're breaking down.
"These expectations are a product of purity culture."
YES! YES! Mickey thank you so much for these videos. You are shining a light that I hope young people (especially women) can see. We didn't have RUclips when I was a teen so it was just good old-fashioned community fear and shame and guilt.. I can't imagine the messages barraging kids these days. It makes me really sad. I hope ALL of them find these kinds of videos, and find a way out.
Yas and purity culture a result of the bible
Somehow I get „I‘m only in this marriage for sex“ vibes from Paul
when his voice drops and he says “so you knew??” it’s terrifying.
Paul seems to have a lot of (barely) hidden anger and Morgan seems very anxious. This makes me sad.
Thank you for validating ace people and those with low drive. I always feel very seen in both your sex advice and fundy breakdowns. Your vids help so much.
Tho tbh something about the latter half of the video triggered something in me. Idk if it was just a culmination of the expectations i was raised with coming back to bite me in the ass? Not sure. But Paul gave me such concerning vibes. Hes not safe. Thank god i left fundamentalism before i finally got into a serious relationship...i cant image the hurt i could have experienced otherwise, because the looks they give eachother is pure resentment 😣
I married into purity culture (I wasn't raised with purity culture but my first boyfriend/husband was and his whole family was fundamentalist), and not only was it made out be that if you followed the rules you would have perfect s3x after marriage, but that EVERYTHING in your marriage would be perfect because "god would bless your marriage". As a child of divorce this was something that was soooo important to me and many other girls in our youth group at the time (I married at 19 so I was definitely still a girl). This stuff is dangerous and PREYS on those of us who maybe had/have a rougher life. It pisses me off so much. >:( Thank you for dissecting, Mickey.
I found myself just silently pleading with Morgan thru my screen to *RUN.* Paul scares the shit out of me
Your videos help me so much to break away from the toxic things I was forcefed as a child. Thank you, Mickey.
oh my god, i do that. when my husband does something that hurts
me i get upset and then…just expect him to realize i’m upset. while i’m sitting here thinking about it, it’s obviously ridiculous, but in the moment i feel so justified.
and this is coming from someone who has been married for 12 years and has done years of couples counseling.
i am really grateful you called attention to that so i can work on that behavior.
I had to practice saying “My feelings are hurt” out loud. Good luck!
@@salyx i’m definitely going to have to, too! thank you!!
Not exactly the same thou
Not finding out that your partner is angry is not traumatizing. Forcing sex on someone VERY MUCH SO IS
At the 30 minute mark I think it's important to acknowledge that men are conditioned(especially in the fundamentalist world) to funnel all of their intimacy needs into the sex act so it makes sense for him (esp. at the beginning of their relationship like he's talking about) to have felt this deep hurt from what in that perspective if a brutal emotional rejection.
My partner and I have been working through this for DECADES. It's tough.
for future reference Mickey, your videos could be 2h long i’d watch them! i love your commentary, very necessary x