let me tell you as a (male) therapist, I have to spend time with some of my female clients deconstructing a lot of pathologizing language around their very valid emotions. The amount of times they refer to their feelings as "psycho", "crazy", a "woman" thing is appalling given the contexts often make sense. This socialization is hurting so many women and their relationships with friends, partners, families
Amen, whenever a guy calls their ex crazy I know to swerve clear of the guy. To me it’s a massive red flag! Also hate the way guys are told to just not have emotions.
I am a trans man, and its been a journey to allow myself to have loud and strong feelings without feeling hysterical and also without filtering them through the 'its just hormones' mindset
Its partially due to their religious influence. Christianity, especially the fundamentalism they tend to subscribe to, encourages immaturity as signs of purity or "innocence". Women especially are treated and taught to view themselves as these precious, childlike creatures designed to be guided by their fathers and then their husbands. Its gross.
God gave us emotions, so that's kind of contradictory. I used to follow them, but certain things they have said over the years has rubbed me the wrong way. I follow Bare Marriage with Sheila Wray Gregoire & her daughter, Rebecca Gregoire Lindenbach. They made a podcast talking specifically about Paul & Morgan, but it applies to more people. They basically said, "Let's stop listening to these Christian influencers solely for the fact they're young, have a following, & tend to be good looking." Nothing wrong with talking about one's own experiences, but one can't make a claim about something without backing it up with real evidence.
I’m just starting the video, but something that I remember from my time as a Christian is how *emotional* Jesus was. He cried. He sobbed. He destroyed a temple in anger. He literally sweat blood from the stress and anguish of the upcoming crucifixion, and asked God if there was any other way to save the world. If a “perfect” person didn’t censor/monitor His own emotions, what hope do the rest of us have? I went through a difficult loss when I was 18, and I remember confessing to my pastor how angry I was with God that He would let this happen. She told me that God was much bigger than any anger, hurt, sadness, etc that I could feel, then looked me in the eyes and said, “so if you want to be angry with Him, or yell at Him, or tell Him how hurt you are… I think that’s okay. He’s big enough to handle it.”
Dude. And nevermind his emotions. He got so pissed off at the Hoban race HE created for being heathens that he closed the whole freaking earth. The jealousy of not wanting anyone to worship false idols? The pissing contest (that is basically what it was) he got into with the devil over whether or not Job would forsake him? Like really? What do you have to prove? You're God. And especially to an angel you cast out of heaven. I'm fairly convinced God is an emotional being. Just saying. So I'm pretty sure our emotions are just a human thing that comes with the territory, not sinful
There are plenty of Psalms which openly express the Psalmist's sorrow, anguish, fear, despair, loneliness, and desperate pleas to God for help. The psalmist never attempts to hide whatever it was they were going through; in Psalm 102, it even says 'For you have taken me up and thrown me aside. My days are like the evening shadow; I wither away like grass.' Psalm 88 says 'For my soul is full of trouble and my life draws near the grave...I am set apart with the dead, like the slain who lie in the grave whom you remember no more.' When I was going through a dark time in my life a few years ago, the honesty of those verses and others definitely comforted me. I don't think God wants us to conceal what our true feelings from him are, even if they aren't 'good'. And if we do, it'll only become a problem which effectively stops us from being 'real' with God.
exactly! and the bible says it is sinful to react BADLY in response to your emotions. example: you are going to feel angry but its a sin to go punch the person you are angry at... ugh
I love how they say "girls have more crazy emotions!" and then IMMEDIATELY give the example of Bethany being less openly emotional than her husband, only to go on talking about how much more emotional "girls" are. They don't even stop for a second to consider that maybe, just maybe, the way individuals show/process emotions may have more to do with their personalities than their gender.
I think the most healing and validating thing I was ever told was “you’re not being irrational, you’re having a rational reaction to an irrational situation” Changed my entire thought process.
@@CraftyVegan Me, too! It seems small, but this thought will be absolutely revolutionized my life. I am seeing myself in a far kinder, not-self-deprecating light.
I find it weird that their example with the snails involves them having empathy for a creature that, in that moment, might have been more helpless. To downplay that empathy as something ridiculous and out of control feels so odd to me.
My thoughts here are that it's because sexism tells us that empathy is a female emotion i.e. bad and shameful - even if you are a female yourself. (At least that's the sort of shit I grew up feeling.)
i don't know, women are supposed to be understanding and empathetic towards men to an almost unreasomable amoint, so i wouldn't say it is bad because it is female. It might make it bad in men, but when you feel shameful because you empathetic as a female that doesn't make sense. It's rather thia conservative american thing where you are supposed to be so ambitious that the pain of others is to be ignored if it serves your cause.
Right? I thought their reaction was not uncalled for. They showed care for the little creatures who couldn’t help themselves. Isn’t that more like Jesus than turning off your emotion to watch them crumble beneath the weight of someone’s feet?
Kinda makes me wonder what role that kind of empathy-squelching plays in making people complacent when patriarchal figures start hurting OTHER conscious beings. How many people in these fundie circles have had nagging thoughts that their in-group was being cruel or hateful to others, only to terminate the thought with some version of the snail story?
I've tried to clarify to my child that he doesn't get in trouble because he gets angry. "It is normal to feel anger and to be angry. What gets you into trouble, is what you do with the anger and how you let it affect your behavior. Being calm, does not mean you stop being angry. It means you take back control from your anger."
Same. I always tell my kids that anger and sadness and frustration are part of being human, and there are healthy ways to express and release those emotions. That being destructive or harmful aren't going to get to the root of their issue. It's super important to create a safe environment for kids to express and work through those emotions because as I kid I was told to hide them. That it would embarrass my mom if I acted up. That there was a time and place to be angry. Basically my mom would tell me to hold off until I was away from the public eye to be upset. It was really damaging as a child to have that drilled into me. Now as a mom I make sure my kids feel like they can have those emotions, and together we will work through them together. Even if I cannot solve their problems, I will still help them work through their emotions.
Whenever I have a disproportionately strong emotional reaction, it's a trauma response, not "crazy girl emotions." And the fact that my whole life I was told I was "too sensitive" and to "stop acting crazy," meant I didn't realize this was a trauma response until I was 25. So yeah, their content is harmful and makes me so sad. PS love the hair!
@@RenDoesThings well, for me it is. When I have a disproportionate reaction, it's because something about the situation connects to my trauma. When we first started dating and I first started realizing this, I would say to my partner "I'm upset about this, but I'm a lot more upset than makes sense to me. I'm trying to figure it out and when I do, I'd like to talk about it." That way, he knew there was a reason I wasnt talking about being upset as opposed to me being passive aggressive.
I'd never thought about "over the top" emotions steming from trauma, but it makes so much sense. From a fellow sensitive "too much" human, thank you for this perspective.
@@RenDoesThings everyone can have different reasons for strong emotional reactions but it doesn't just come out of nowhere for no reason and it also doesn't make anyone crazy. I have adhd and one of the symptoms is a low ability to deal with frustration, so I have 2 minute angry or crying outbursts, specially because I live in a tropical place but hate the heat, to most people when they see it (what is not very often) it seems uncalled and childish but it's just how I'm wired.
As a person who is literally insane, hearing "Crazy Girl Emotions" Hurts. Hurts a lot. It's so depressing to see these women get a fanbase of impressionable girls and ruin their lives.
I'm really glad you brought this up. So, I don't allow my team to use the word "Crazy" to describe anything at work. Well.. allow isn't the right word, but we have diversity and inclusion talks very regularly and I FREQUENTLY bring up this word and the impact it can have on people who are dealing with serious mental or emotional health concerns in their lives or family. And people try really hard to kind of nod like "Oh wow, never thought of that before!" but I know some think it's overkill. I even did when I first thought of it (And I also suffer from mental health struggles and am neuro-divergent, so it's not like I didn't already know on some level) And people mess it up because that word is so baked into our everyday descriptions of things. Like 'That accident on the highway this morning was CRAZY!" or "I ate a crazy amount of hot cheetos last night" or whatever. It's such a standard vocabulary catch-all for A HUGE RANGE of different feelings about different experiences. Like "The accident I drove past was really scary and I've been thinking about it a lot today" or "You'll forgive me if I'm a little flatulent. I ate more hot cheetos than my IBS can tolerate" or whatever. So I always encourage people to remember to try and not use the word like this. Nobody gets hurt AND they get to tell a much more entertaining or interesting anecdote if they use more accurate language. And not blanketing over shocking or difficult experiences can also trigger your workmates to make sure you ARE actually doing ok after seeing a bad accident, or if you DO need a bit of extra time in the bathroom after the hot cheeto binge or whatever. Anyway, I'm rambling. I agree with you.
@@BeckBeckGo Crazy, insane, mental- all three of those words are used and can be used interchangeably to do exactly what you said, but all of them stem from one origin and have the same definition. And it's really sad and speaks volumes to society's conscious and subconscious view of people who have a mental illness.
@@BeckBeckGo I've been working on clearing the words "crazy" and "insane" out of my figurative vocabulary, replacing them with more specific words like "absurd" and "ridiculous", and similarly broad words like "wild"
I am also technically "insane" (cluster b disorders) but I think it's funny to use the words crazy and insane. I do not see how it's offensive and I don't care if people call me "psychopath" or other such strongly stigmatized words.
I've noticed that as soon as a man feels a little bit threatened by a woman calling out their bullshit, she is immediately labeled "crazy". I've heard it for decades now.
In my experience with the Evangelical Church is that, emotions are allowed to be had if they're positive. Negative emotions are allowed, for 5 min until you pray and then you're happy again. Prayer fixes everything. Depression was 'prayed away' so when you weren't happy afterwards it was because you didn't pray hard enough. Toxic positivity starts here.
For REAL!!!!!! Every bad thing has some god reason behind it, count it joy when awful shit happens all of that! It’s like can you all just shut up and let me be miserable for a bit! I’m so glad that I’m out of it
It reminds me of how some members of family tell me to smile whenever I feel sad or down. It's like...I can't. But yeah, I've been through the "pray the depression away" when I was in middle school. Thankfully, I've deconverted when I was in college because of many reasons besides toxic positivity.
"that's called meditation" THAT'S THE OPPOSITE OF MEDITATION ruminating has your mind go a mile a minute and the goal of meditation is to quiet the mind 😭
Not trying to be a jerk about their personalities, because I actually love chatty people (when they're not completely toxic like these two), but I could never picture either of these minds being capable of quieting down.
Maybe “quieting the mind” isn’t the perfect analogy here. The way I see medication is that you’re focused in the moment and focusing (and maybe enjoying) what is immediately in front of you. Ruminating is never about the present. It’s your mind racing about something that happened 5 years ago that nobody else remembers but you, or the fears you have about something happening in the future. Mediation is about being in the moment. Rumination is being anywhere but.
"Woefully ill-equipped" is the perfect description for these two and their advice. I'm always surprised when I'm reminded how old they are -- they have such a strong 16 year old vibe to them. Sixteen year olds who have lived in a little bubble their whole lives
Mikey: "human beings are always inherently--" My fundamentalist-indoctrinated brain: SINFUL. Mikey: "worthy of love and belonging" Me: 😬 I've been deconstructing for almost ten years at this point, and that is STILL where my brain goes. That's the problem with these fundamentalist fkers. Years of therapy, and I STILL think this way. Oof.
Big same, friend. It takes time to root out these toxic ways of thinking, particularly when they were so constantly reinforced through your youth. And I swear it's cyclical. I'll think I'm past it and then I gotta go back and relearn the truth. ❤️
When she started explaining in detail her symptom of anxiety, I thought she was going to talk about how she controls it, but instead followed it with "and that's called MEDITATION 😀" I HAVE NEVER LAUGHED HARDER IN MY LIFE. I did not see that coming.
My reaction was "No it's f***ing not!!!!". I'm just horrified that someone out there is going to see that and think their anxiety-fuelled ruminating is good. Arrgh!!!
I’m pretty sure that rumination is the diametric opposite of meditation. One is about stewing on your own thoughts, while the other is about bringing about peace through clearing your mind.
THANK YOU for the talk on the constant guilt trips/anxiety. I remember Mr. Atheist saying once, imagine growing up being told that red shirts were bad. Then one day as an adult you wear a red shirt, and you feel guilty. Is there anything wrong with wearing a red shirt? Of course not. You feel guilty because you were TOLD to feel guilty. GD's flavor of religion is VERY MUCH the same as how I was raised. It has taken me years, therapy, and money to get away from the constant feelings of guilt and shame about things that are totally fine. I HATE that young women are still being brainwashed like this. I HATE it.
@@ItBeThatWaySometimes I'm not a fan of dogging on people who struggle with their mental health, but I agree with that. His videos REALLY helped me deconstruct from religion.
Hi Melissa--thank you for sharing your experiences in escaping from the toxic flavor of religion that the Girl Defined community pushes. ❤ Having been raised in a strict Catholic household, I grew up in a similar environment where guilt, shame, low self-worth, and a heapin' helpin' of patriarchy was woven into the fabric of our childhood beliefs. Like you, it took me years to escape that mindset (thanks to lots of therapy!) and build healthy relationships with not only people around me, but myself as well. I'm 52 now, and it saddens me that young women still fall prey to this kind of brainwashing--and women like Kristin and Bethany enable its perpetuation via their platform. :(
“That’s called meditation!” Me: “WHAT???” 🤣🤣🤣 Also when I saw the thumbnail I said “Oh cool, time to watch Mickey repeatedly attempt to rip her face off.”
Their mislabeling of Meditation brought back up memories in growing up in a Fundamentalist Christian environment. I was taught that you were constantly “medicating” all the time, aka, you were thinking about things. Kristen talking about “Meditating” in bed before sleep is a “bad” version of “meditation” because, ideally and if you were a good Christian, you’re supposed to be “meditating” on Gods word. A lot of people I knew growing up thought and believed that Eastern Meditation or Mindfulness Meditation was evil because it’s an open invitation to let unruly, sinful thoughts creep into one’s mind…
The stupidity and ignorance they continue to display is truly astounding. They should be ashamed and they should not have any type of platform whatsoever.
In context, 'meditation' can be used to describe a person's contemplation and exploration of a particular subject - Marcus Aurelius and Descartes both have works using it that way. OTOH, kinda doubt GD have heard of either.
If someone thinks crying over a snail is somehow inappropriate (it isn't, like I am 29 years old and I would cry too), how do they justify that? Like... what is the harm in crying because an innocent creature you just saw alive and well a few minutes ago is dead? It feels really weird to hear two people acting like that was a sinful thing to do. I really do feel bad for these people... the level of rationalizations they have to engage in must be horrible and exhausting. And the toxic positivity! My god! "As teens we should have been grateful for our parent's curfew!" No, honestly that would be creepy. If I heard a teen saying they were grateful for their parent's rules I would be really confused. Not because rules are bad, but because teens are supposed to be rebelling against them. It's... what they do. Obviously there is a level at which that too becomes problematic, but they're at least supposed to be a little salty about it you know? It's part of growing up. We do not have to be grateful for every shitty thing that happens to us, jesus fuck! Let people be sad or angry!!
Started going to therapy 2 weeks ago. Our first session was OK. I felt th therapist was a little patronizing with his words, but I let it go because I blamed our culture. Men talk down to women all the time without realizing it or intending to hurt them. Th 2nd session i asked him for advice on how to handle my emotions when I felt they were disproportionate to th circumstances. His response was "close your eyes and think of all the good things in your life. Just try not to think of the bad things that are sparking bad emotions." I have since signed up with a new therapist (female) and hope she is more helpful. 🤞
Oof. Just want you to know it can be a process finding the right person. I saw several therapists before finding one that really clicked. She’s helped me change my life :)
I hope your next therapist is a good one and helps you! Even if she isn't, don't give up and keep looking! Sometimes it takes time and you gotta shop around to find one that works well with you and the problems you wish to work through. But hopefully you don't have to search any more
"Feel the feels, control the actions" is what I tell myself. And for me, it works. You know, when I feel like punching someone, I don't, but I also don't scorn myself for feeling anger because that's not going to help either.
uh I agree until you said you scorn yourself bc emotions are not good or bad they are neutral. They just exist. You shouldn't shame yourself for feeling it that's not healthy.
I find it crazy that they're using a time when they had compassion for animals as an example of stupid emotions getting out of hand. I don't see that as silly. Compassion is a good thing. Bethany and Kristen don't have a great track record for showing empathy for other humans, so it's striking that they're using compassion for animals as an example of feeling stupid emotions that's in some way a bad thing.
@@feliciascorner9795 Yeah. The BITE model could probably fit a lot of what they do and say, but it was just my gut reaction to be like "Dang, they're practically gaslighting themselves." "No, I can't be annoyed my parents make me come home at ten when Jessie's parents let her stay out until eleven! I have to be grateful my parents are looking out for me!"
These people really really have to be careful about what they call “sin” as a child I struggled with bulimia (still do unfortunately) and I remember my Sunday school teacher praying out loud in front of the whole class for “my sin of bulimia” that is the exact thing that will make a child’s eating disorder worse and lead to even more mental illness…
I was raised in a Christian home with Christian parents/grandparents/extended family that spoke like this. It’s an entire language for them, and only other Christians get it. The whole thing with sin leading to shame and fear and therefore those being “sinful” emotions kept me up at night thinking I was a “bad” person for not being able to just “trust god”. But really I have chronic anxiety, and I’ve been gaslighting myself over my emotions my entire life. I’ve been a proud and out atheist for like 8 years now, but the long term trauma from feeling unsafe in your own head takes a damn long time to go away.
i am a christian. my boyfriend who is also a christian and went to bible school told me that sin is “something that denies the humanity of you or another.” so yes, shame is sinful, but not because it makes you “bad” (in fact, that in itself is shame), but because you are DENYING yourself your humanity. you are a child of God as a human. God wants you to turn to him. shame causes you to turn away from him. i have since changed my attitude towards sin. instead of letting sin push us away from God in shame, sin should push us TOWARD God so we can look to him for grace and healing. so in conclusion: i know you are atheist, but what i would have suggested to you at that time was to turn to God in your anxiety, and also therapy, because God has grace for that and desires your healing, and ultimately to reframe the conversation that ill-informed Christians (who are also themselves in need of God) hurt you with. when Jesus died, he took all of that shame and hurt and pain and anxiety with him to the cross and then beat it and rose again. all he wants is for you to lean on him.
@@SparklesNJazz I appreciate the sentiment, but you cannot force faith. You cant force yourself to believe in something you don’t, and I spent a long time hating myself for not being able to just “believe”. I couldn’t just trust god, I couldn’t lean on the concept of god because he hadnt answered any of my prayers. Every life situation I made it out of, I made it out of without “his” help. And then when I’d ask people why he allows things to happen to undeserving people, they’d say it’s cause we sinned first. I don’t know what sect or what seminary you or your bf are in, but i was raised Calvinist baptist, and the whole thing is that you are going to suffer until you trust god. That’s really just gaslighting with extra steps, because you will not stop suffering. You might have a nice comforting placebo to replace the self hatred, but your life will continue to have stressors. I can’t count the amount of times I watched people I love deny themselves their dreams because it wasn’t “God’s plan”. My grandma is gay, she told me about her girlfriend she was in love with in college, but she is never going to come out to another soul. She is married to a man that she “loves” and hasn’t slept with him in probably 15 years. It keeps me up at night, that my grandma will deny herself for the rest of her life because a book told her to. Frankly, god has a lot to answer for in my book if he DOES exist. Like, “why don’t you every call ME? You’re omnipotent and omnicent and omnipresent right? So why can’t you just pick up a phone and go, ‘ay girl I will try to get back to you in the next couple weeks, I’ve been inundated with a lot of prayers, really crazy week, etc” Also, the fact that the Abrahamic religions are all mutually exclusive- and that means that god is also a part of one specific clique. So not only do you have to pick the *right* version, but all the other versions are doomed to hell because they didn’t have enough info? I just can’t. Rational people just get fed up with the concept of god because you can use it to excuse everything in your life. And you can adjust the interpretation to meet you exactly where you are, good or bad. Men have used it to force submission in their wives, children, other women, etc. church leaders use it to scare people into tithing. If god was present, you wouldn’t need churches or an outdated, badly translated book
I hope you're in a place now where you can express your feelings and have them met with validation. You deserve love, support, and proper treatment. I'm glad you're still here because you're a force of good in this world. Also - not an exact parallel - but my dad used to try to comfort me by telling me "all teenagers are depressed. You'll feel better when you're older." I understand now what he was trying to say, but when I hit my early 20s my mental illness spiraled out of control. I became frantic. I thought my depression & anxiety were literally going to dissolve once I reached age 18.
@@coralineschmidt1078 EXACTLY i hate when teenagers are shamed for being "ovely" emotional due to hormones and puberty like,, they're still feeling real emotions and even if it might seem extreme to someone else, that doesn't mean that they're wrong for the way they feel
The problem with Girl Defined is their whole channel is based around the concept "One size fits all". And if it doesn't, you have force it to fit otherwise you're going to hell.
Five years ago the church where I went suffered a great tragedy. There was a bus crash and 13 senior adults were killed. You can be damn sure there were negating emotions felt that night. And you can also be sure that I was shamed for still feeling sad weeks and months later. I hate hate hate that as a Christian I was always told to be happy and positive. I’m so glad I’m out now.
My grandfather had a very different view of sin and I always resonated with it. Sin is when you do something that hurts others, you are aware that it hurts others, and you do it anyways. That's sin. You know something is wrong and harmful and you do it anyways. Having emotions isn't sinful, it's being a fricken human. Being gay, trans, enby, etc isn't sinful. Touching someone who you know doesn't want to be touched, is sinful. You know they don't want to be touched and yet you do it anyways. Does that make sense?
As someone who’s Autistic and has ADHD, and who was raised in a fundamentalist Christian environment, I’m sure as hell not gonna listen to a f*cking word Kristen and Bethany say on how to deal with my emotions. I went undiagnosed for years, I’ve had tremendous struggles in even labeling my emotions (I still sometimes do) and I’m unpacking a lot of the shit that Girl Defined stigmatized as “sinful” emotional beliefs in therapy. The fact that I’m in my early 30s and have learned, in the past year, that negative emotions aren’t “bad/sinful” has been very helpful in figuring out what the real underlying issues are can be seen as being kind of late in the game, but better late than never (not trying to shame myself, esp with my Autism/ADHD, but it’s…interesting to think about). Thanks so much more making this video Mickey (I think it’s kind of funny that I was trying to do some wedding planning when I found out that you released this video on a Saturday)!! 😁
I used to feel alot of shame for my emotional dysregulation before I was diagnosed with adhd and autism, bc I thought that I was having tantrums and being overly sensitive and stuff. Knowledge and understanding, along with self compassion make a world of difference.
The idea of "crazy girl emotions," especially with regards to teenagers and adolescence, probably contributes to tons of teenaged and young adult women with depression or anxiety disorders going undiagnosed like I did.
As someone who came out of fundamentalism, I can say that we were not supposed to have emotions, and women were treated like sinful hystericals for experiencing normal feelings. I'm even less emotional than my husband (who has a mood disorder), and he was shamed even more than me in the subculture for experiencing human emotions. She was absolutely shaming her husband for being emotional. Because being self-controlled (a command in the Bible) is viewed as being emotionless and robotic. If you cannot manage that (I mean, who can?) then you're sinful. They create a need (you need to be emotionless) and then only they can fill that need (because Jesus is supposed to make you self controlled and emotionless). Then religious people are faking being perfect and emotionless becauseit's unobtainable. As a person with ADHD and C-PTSD, I could never pull this off even if I tried. This is a huge part of why I stepped away from this religious belief. I won't fake it and won't shut down all emotions. I am still a person of faith, but I no longer believe that stuff. I'm in ongoing therapy to help work through the religious trauma left in the wake of fundamentalism. Regarding the thoughts leading to feelings, thought control is a huge part of fundamentalism. "Bad" thoughts are sinful and a sign of lack of self control. As someone who has trauma responses, my feelings are not always a direct correlation to my conscious thoughts. It's way more complicated than that.
As a fellow person struggling to overcome the toxic thought processes that fundamentalism taught me growing up, I realized early on (although I have to keep reminding myself) that these people who praise the Bible so highly aren't actually quoting it right. Like, show me a 'godly' man in the bible who didn't have 'crazy' emotions (aka, normal)... it doesn't exist! Because being human, shocker, is totally okay! I remember being told not to get angry and reading the story of Samson, like literally everything he did "for God" was out of anger, so clearly the emotions are not a problem even if you want to stick strictly to the bible. Girl Defined is just not educated enough I think to speak accurately about even their own religion.
Yikes, I don't like the overrighteous. Self-control is not a command! Love is! I'm glad you are out of that! I'm probably not in the best place to say this, but self control is a result of dealing with or handling a problem. The best thought control I know is forgiveness. That means it's gonna be messy before that. Plus, a loving stance is always best. Btw the self control which is regarded as a fruit in the Bible is meant to be from God working on people, it's not our own strength cuz we risk of policing wrongly and getting ourselves and others far from... "God's peace". Don't tell me Psalms was not a dude dealing with his emotions and going haywire at times. May your recovery go well!
My fundie-lite parents are the most emotionally controlled people I know. I was a very emotive child and experienced so much shame. In adult life, I really feel like I missed out on a critical period of learning how to express my feelings in a healthy way. Good for you for working so hard toward authenticity.
I'm a very emotional person. My whole life i was told that I'm too sensitive and take things too seriously. When I'm tired I'm especially prone to crying or getting upset over small things. Just yesterday I was tired after spending the day gardening and doing yard work which I love. Seriously it was a great day, I felt the sunshine on my back, got dirt under my nails, moved my body in ways that feel good to me. It was great. But I was tired and sore and my hands were stiff. I moved onto my sewing project and my hand was sore and not able to do the fine motor work that I needed to do and it made me upset bc I have a previous injury that caused nerve damage and I was worried that my hand was losing condition and frustrated and I cried. Did it feel kind of silly to cry bc I was tired? Yeah, but honestly I just took care of myself (put on a movie, got myself some water, a snack and a cat to cuddle with) and I felt better. My emotions were telling me to take a pause. They weren't hurting me or anyone else. They weren't silly. They were informing me about my own state.
You're not silly. And I don't think you were crying because you were tired. I think you hit the nail on the head when you said frustrated. I would be frustrated too if I was losing an ability to do something that brought me joy because of an injury. I do tons of stuff that requires fine motor skill. And if I ever develop carpal tunnel or arthritis, it's going to kill me when I can no longer draw a well or paint or play the piano or sew or crochet or whatever. So I totally get crying over that lack of control, especially when it's something you used to be able to have control over. Definitely not silly
@@bottomofastairwell that's very kind, thank you. I'm a lot better at it, but even in my post about how I try to honor instead of downplay my emotions, I downplayed my emotions. Guess I still have some work to do, thank you for affirming me.
My first thought when anyone cries is "what do you need?" Comfort? Attention? Validation? Space? Rest? Nourishment? Like if a baby cries most of us would go through that mental checklist, trying to find the best response to the need behind the tears. I wouldn't dream of dismissing anyone's tears - they are signs of an issue that deserves attention, not dismissal and definitely not suppression!
There is a very big difference between recognizing teenagers tend to be emotional due to hormones and shaming it or using it as a joke. I always found it really strange and invalidating, especially because it’s usually targeted towards teenage girls. Like when teenage girls have a breakdown it’s their silly little girl feeling and silly little girl emotions. It’s so weird.
This type of thinking is what lead to my paranoia and psychosis for 8 years straight. I was convinced that the devil was making me feel negative feelings to separate me from God. Every day, I was battling my own self! I ended up taking the leap of faith that scared me the most, and that was allowing myself not to believe anymore. I realized I was only believing out of fear, and so letting go honestly save me.
this makes me so sad... the compartmentalization... the internalized thought-policing... creating mental compulsions to distance one's self from their true emotions... these girls were hurt like I was by fundamentalism.. glad i got out.. sorry they didnt.
These ladies need to read the Psalms... the amount of anger, fear, sadness, grief, etc that are expressed there, freely, shamelessly. "Negative" emotions are not bad to have.
I am in the midst of deconstructing negative thoughts of my emotions being "too much" and hiding them. I come from an upper-class family who put a lot of pressure on me to "put on a face" so our family would see okay because I am the only person in the family who is neurodivergent. I'm living alone now and dealing with constant anxiety that I am being judged constantly and find myself hiding/isolating A LOT. My gf has been helping me but it has been a long process. Thank you for sharing your knowledge and thoughts ❤
I really appreciate touching on the idea of "wrong" and "sinful" thoughts/feelings in religion. I can't imagine how many people have had horrible intrusive thoughts but made to choice to not act on them (proving they are good, responsible people) and still feeling in some way broken or sinful. I'm so sure there are millions of gay and trans folks suffering because of this. I'm sick of religious zealots acting like we're living in 1984 because they can't call people slurs while essentially recreating crimethink in their spaces. cute hair btw
I was raised Presbyterian and have intrusive thoughts due to OCD. I felt intensely guilty and bad about myself as a person growing up because I had so many rude, hurtful, "unChristlike" thoughts even though I hated them, never acted on them, and couldn't control them. And this was a fairly mellow and progressive church. Religious leaders really need to work on how to frame social and emotional issues and encourage their flocks to get professional help as needed ... not that I'm about to hold my breath waiting for that
@@FiddlebirdBlue - similar here. Raised in the Australian Anglican church and I have ADHD. Being told constantly to "calm my mind" and "guard my thoughts" made me feel intensely guilty because I couldn't. I was diagnosed at 31. Once I was medicated, I realised that I had a medical condition that prevented me from doing this crap and that it wasn't my fault. I'm 46 and an atheist now. Proper diagnosis and medication, plus a truckload of therapy has led me to being mentally healthier than I ever was pre-31.
@@FiddlebirdBlue I'm so sorry that people close to you hurt you this way. the people who should have been there to help you made you feel shame you didn't deserve. I sincerely hope you're in a better place now, having realized these issues. I wish you the best
I was raised Catholic and I can definitely relate to the feeling broken based on intrusive thoughts. Though, in the most ironic way it's not directly related to being raised Catholic, I wasn't taught such things in church/sunday school or from my Catholic side of the family. No, the Baptist side of my family (specifically my favorite extended family member who I looked up to and admired) taught me the whole 'God and everyone else in Heaven is always watching you at all times and they can see/hear your thoughts too so if you think naughty things they will Know all of them'. So me, a very vulnerable kiddo w/ undiagnosed ADHD (and anxiety and family history of paranoia) at the time got real afraid of committing thought crimes (via intrusive thoughts) against God for a long ass time. Like, it's kinda funny to me at least, because my church was actually good in this regard. My family member who was secretly freakishly religious was the one to do it in passing.
My ex mother in law would tell her grandson to not cry when he was sad and I always thought that was unhealthy She was a devout catholic not evangelical I was always worried that her grandson would grow up not knowing to to handle his emotions and fears Your hair looks amazing 🤩
My father told my then-3 year old son "big boys don't cry" and I don't think I've ever had a bigger whiplash into "mama bear" than I did at that moment. "Yes they do. Crying is a normal human thing. Suppressing your emotions doesn't make you strong. Dealing with them properly does." I admit that I was parroting my therapist there. But it's true.
Merch that says "This pushes my fucking buttons" 10/10 would purchase! also feel like having to point out that rumination is not a form of meditation to adults giving any kind of advice on the internet is both the funniest shit i've ever watched and the most terrifying concept for vulnerable people watching their videos.i am far from a professional but i think even if i wasnt in therapy i would know that shits not helpful.
negative emotions can sometimes be the only indicator to a person what's happening to them is wrong, and them saying to just ignore that gets people in very dangerous situations
I had a friend who was having a really hard time so I asked him what was wrong. It boiled down to him being incredibly upset that he was feeling feelings, like, any feelings at all. He was mad that he felt cared for, he was sad that he lost that relationship, he was enraged that he was sad. I was like, "dude, you're a person, and people feel feelings, it's not a condition unique to you."
Your hair is on point and I'm loving the streaks! Also, thank you for acknowledging that CBT isn't for everyone. I spent years trying to explain that this method made me feel too anxious and being completely dismissed by therapist after therapist. Still struggling to figure out if therapy in general is at all helpful to me as a result.
While CBT has worked well for me, I can totally see why it doesn't work for everyone. (I happen to be very Type A who loves spreadsheets haha) I hope you find someone that can help you & listen to what works best for you
I like cbt but am a data/list oriented person also! I hope you can have the strength to advocate for yourself and find a therapist that will try something else! Maybe emdr? I've had good success with that and it's very free-form
You may find person centred therapy to be helpful, or Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT) is one that a lot of people find more beneficial when CBT hasn't worked for them.
It is so weird to watch these because I grew up thinking and believing the exact same way as Kristen and Bethy. I'm just like wow, no wonder I'm in therapy. Its shocking to realize how harmful these ideas are and how normal they were to me up until 3 years ago.
This whole "keep your thoughts captive" shit is so triggering for me. I totally see younger more religious me in what they're saying. I used to try and control all of my thoughts to not be "sinful" and it resulted in some of the worst years of my life for mental health. So everyone needs to RUN AWAY from this toxic as fuck messaging
Me too. Not the religious thing, but the triggering thing. "It's not your circumstances that make you feel blah blah" That actually made me start crying and I think I'm gonna have to turn this off for a bit. You can clearly tell that neither of these people have been abused as children. Neglected. Violated. Traumatized in any way. Or, if they have, they've become so completely ashamed of their own existence that they literally warped and twisted into this shape. I don't know. I hope they haven't been through anything like that and that they're just privileged, thoughtless, self-absorbed airheads. I genuinely hope that's the reality here because i don't wish that on anybody. But I really also simultaneously want to stick a fork in their eyes so... Like, the meanest words to describe these two, words I normally do not like at alllll, are coming into my head and i'm very consciously not allowing them to flow through my hands into Mickey's comment section right now. Out of respect for Mickey and her platform. (Girl Disrupted, or whatever the hell you're called, if you're ever reading this, what YOU two dingleberries deserve is a good tar-and-feathering)
"Taking your thoughts captive" is something so aggressive towards one's own thoughts. It suggests that your thoughts are your enemies. However, examining your thoughts to understand what brought them on and if there are distortions affecting it is a more helpful way of going about it. Like, yeah, work on being able to slow down and check your thoughts, but they are a part of how you are processing what you're experiencing, check them for unhelpful self talk or self-shaming, etc. Understanding yourself is important, being patient and compassionate to yourself is important.
I started to realize in my early 20s I had ocd (and was later diagnosed in my late 20s). I started going to church when I was 21 and to be told you’re sinning against God with your mind when you have intrusive thoughts. It’s a mind fuck. Literally. It took going to therapy and being told that people are born good and then the trauma happens later on and we learn to react to it and hide our problems. That it’s a trauma response, not Satan. That I have a mental disorder and it’s ok. So hearing you talk about how bad it is to police your own thoughts is really reassuring. Because it was exhausting for awhile there.
Thank you for this. “It’s a trauma response, not Satan.” hits really hard in a good way. Love hearing that intrusive/anxious thoughts are because life can be shitty and hard and our brain is just trying to deal... and not because some evil master manipulator trying to sneak into my brain. Somehow that is nicer and easier to deal with and I didn’t realize I had that sort of internalized still...
I literally had a conversation with a Christian coworker last week about this. She was trying to say that having sinful thoughts was because we live in a fallen world and that people were inherently sinful. I didn't want to get into my personal OCD and intrusive thoughts so I just chose to tell her that I cannot believe that and I choose to think that people are inherently good and just react based on their needs being met or unmet.
I grew up Christian and I remember when I first started seeing a therapist one of the first things we talked about was how it was okay to feel emotions and that I wasn’t an evil person for feeling sad. Like I legit thought I was just so demonic for being depressed without a valid reason to be depressed.
Girl Defined: You need to control your thoughts Me, diagnosed with OCD: 😳 The basic fucking concept of OCD treatment is that you cannot control your thoughts in a way that is healthy or beneficial!
That "you just need to think about this circumstance differently" has also definitely been used against me by an abuser. Like no, actually, you were directly causing my unhappiness and leaving was the best thing I ever did for myself and now I'm happier. Changing circumstance can actually change emotions, funny how that works.
I love the part you included about people believing in God without this toxic theology! I can’t speak for everyone but where I attend (via web lol) the pastor makes a point about embracing our emotions and asking for help DEALING with them not avoiding them. Love your videos! 😊
I (female) had my therapist repeatedly tell me to actually feel my emotions instead of trying to logic my way out of emotions since I favour logic and reason over emotions, so I pushed emotions down and invalidate my own emotions. I still struggle with it from time to time. The repeated idea that "girls have crazy emotions" always brings an idea to my mind that I'm having "crazy girl emotions" when I express an emotion, even when I am just validating my own emotions in a healthy manner
My work just did a thing about controlling your thinking to make your life better and I think I strained my eyes from rolling them so hard. They also claimed that feelings always come from thoughts but didn't mention that thoughts can come from feelings (both emotional and physical!) too. It was a whole mess.
I will be 32 this Friday. If someone stepped on a snail I would probably be visibly upset. I have pet snails, but still I feel like them as teenagers had an age appropriate reaction.
What girl defined totally left out when they basically regurgitated what CBT is, is the “disputation” part! CBT helped me a lot because journaling helps me. The beginning of the “thought record” journalling with “activating event, thoughts, feelings behaviors” releases my spiraling thoughts by getting it out on physical paper. THEN the detective work/disputation analyses what I’ve recorded and allows me to reflect on what “unhelpful thinking styles” I may be engaging in and questioning how my anxiety/depression/trauma history is causing me to have beliefs that aren’t grounded in reality, which alleviates my overwhelming emotions. Also I like questions like “what would I say to a friend who is experiencing what i’m experiencing now?” Because I tend to be more patient with others than myself. Girl defined totally missed the nuanced concepts in CBT that make it relevant to the user and potentially healing. Just forcing yourself to think happy thoughts and expect to feel happy doesn’t work.
Idk if this helps to understand, but I grew up in this culture. When they talk about "meditation" they basically mean "rumination". There's conversations about meditating on things and it basically just means what you're focusing on or thinking a lot about; and trying to keep those things godly to like "train your brain" (form mental habits to jump to a positive/godly thing not a negative/sinful thing). Hope this helps :)
I feel like I'm watching a couple of permanent teenagers trying to explain emotions. I'm not trying to put them down, but if I want to learn and grow (especially when it comes to emotions), it wouldn't be through watching them. Thank you for encouraging and explaining how to feel our emotions in a munch healthier way.
Probably one of the most significant breakthroughs I've had in therapy was when I was starting to treat my depression in therapy and was beginning to feel emotions instead of just feeling empty all the time and I was so confused because I was like what??? This feels rubbish??? But then realizing that all emotions are just part of the human experience, and it's not supposed to feel good all the time and there isn't anything wrong with me for not feeling good all the time - that was life changing
It seems that they're confusing "take a breath and count to 10" with "ask god to stuff your emotions away". First one is fine I suppose as long as it's from a place of rationalising I suppose? And you need to know you might have to process it some other time (for example being angry with a child's behavior but keeping your cool and letting off steam when your partner is back home)
They constantly link everything to God, because it's part of their brand. However, I can't help but wonder if they are compensating for something...like lack of faith.
I was raised to link EVERYTHING to God. Every decision big or small. Every area of my life was meant to have God at the center of it. It may not be just a brand thing, because a lot if people are raised this way.
I love your content, and the new hair! I have a bachelors in psychology and plan to get my masters to be a therapist as well. :) CBT has been under fire for a good reason, and I absolutely love how well you explained all of this! It helped me further understand too! I watch other youtubers call out these two and I catch myself thinking "Do they not know how to critically think?" and also YES "Throw myself out the window" haha
I commented on another post about how CBT working for me, but my therapist didn't do that these 2 have done and say "oh, you had that negative thought? So just don't have it!!!" Hearing the critiques of it is also helping me understand if it's what I need as I continue my mental health journey. But, again, "bury your sinful emotions & don't acknowledge those bad thoughts ever again" is, uh, not it, girls! Also good luck getting your masters! I am sure you will crush it!
The puppies 😍💕 super therapeutic. Also, the information presented was helpful and helped me understand why CBT, when poorly presented to myself as a teen, did not work for me, and actually made the feeling I had about myself worse. Thanks Mickey 😊
"Your environment doesn't effect your emotions, only your thoughts do" is so entrenched in controlling situations (like say...a religious cult...). It's not OUR fault, YOU'RE crazy because YOU'RE thinking the wrong way. Think Approved Thoughts and you'll stop being so crazy. It kills coming and going--your situation isn't bad, you're just thinking bad; and therefore the same is true for everyone else who expresses 'bad' emotions like anger or sadness. Even if it turns out your emotional reactions are being caused by mental illness, the problem is on _you_ for failing in some way and the emotions you've expressed are proof of that--a perfect circle of blame focused on the person who's _inconveniencing_ others by expressing their unhappiness.
Am I the only one who doesn't even think how they reacted about the snails was extreme?? I mean I would react that way now as a 27 year old adult 🤷♀️ But I'm also autistic and have ADHD so I tend to feel emotion more intensely
The other day, my daughter and I moved a worm off the sidewalk so he wouldn't dry up in the sun. Young girls often empathize with little critters. It a good and endearing thing. Calling girls having human emotions "crazy" is unhealthy.
Thank you for naming anxiety about anxiety. This is my ex-mo husband’s experience and I’ve never heard a therapist (or anyone else) name this reality. Thank you
I grew up in a very strict Christian household, not fundie but definitely very strict & Godly. I consider myself a Christian to this day but I also recognize the toxicity some of these churches & people have in the messages that they preach. I started going to counseling when I got older & my dad was skeptical because for a long time I heard "You need to talk to God more" but it helped SO MUCH & it opened his eyes as well. I think there's this stigma around counseling because if you have a good relationship with God you don't need it which is not true whatsoever. God gives us the tools to help ourselves & that is NOT sinful. I think everyone could benefit from counseling even if it's just to gain a new perspective. It's also very important to have a counselor or therapist that respects your beliefs but isn't going to preach at you & says "This is what the Bible says" My counselor respected what I believed but also recognized that my mom what toxic af. She didn't preach to me that cutting my mom out of my life was unbiblical which is what I was afraid of. She turned out to be absolutely amazing & helped me so much.
As a fellow therapist, I kept thinking I might have something to add, but you basically covered it all. I work with kids and so often they tell me they want to “stop getting mad.” Obviously, that’s not possible. All we can do is learn to let out our anger in safe ways. I talk to kids about learning to “catch” the anger and deal with it before it gets out of control. I have used that exact emotions wheel with adolescent clients and I love it. I also loved your pooping metaphor! 😂
I grew up in church and had some good people around me (thankfully). The majority of our church was on the same track as Girl Defined, but I remember once someone brought up the "we are made in God's image" thing in a different way - there are biblical examples of Jesus getting like viscerally angry, God is regularly referred to as a "jealous God", Jesus wept and was scared and was literally asking for any other way to "save us" than to be crucified bc he was so terrified. According to the bible God literally flooded the entire earth bc he was over the bullshit so the idea of controlling emotions to that extent and not having these kinds of episodes is...... not biblical lol
This is where I suffer the greatest trauma from my fundie upbringing. The idea that I had to constantly be policing my thoughts and emotions (and enforced through verbal and physical abuse by my father if I was showing that I wasn't controlling them) from my earliest years - just as soon as I could speak, is so entrenched in my brain that every time an emotion even starts to manifest, my thoughts immediately take over and cuts it off. That sort of hyper vigilance has put me into such a perpetual state of anxiety that even though I know how harmful it is to bottle up my emotions and how much I yearn to have deep emotions, I'm never able to relax enough to release them from that iron prison. Please love yourself enough and relax yourself enough to let your emotions move through you! You don't have to act on them, but you need to feel them. Emotions are central to the human experience. Don't ever let anyone convince you that cold hard unfeeling logic is superior to emotions. Emotions are life. Even when trying to persuade someone, cold indifferent facts are never enough to get someone to change their mind or agree with you -- it's the emotions as expressed through those facts and ideas that persuade. Scholarly debate is dusty and boring, impassioned fiery speeches and heartbreaking confessions are deeply moving.
Speaking out on this subject specifically is so important! In other video Bethany said straight up that “anxiety is a sin” Absolutely appalling! These woman are 💯 contributing to the abuses of women! So toxic and so dangerous! 😡
It makes me sad that out of all possible examples, they picked out a situation of them having 'crazy emotions' when they literally just showed empathy. As a very sensitive person myself this is quite insulting and if anything we need *more* empathy in this world, not any less.
Thank you very much for these videos on toxic christianity topics! I've been a catholic until 17 yo, now it's been almost 4 years from moment I left church. This way of thinking was soo deeply indoctrinated in my mind, that I still find it hard to find new, healing way of thinking on many things. Your videos help me to understand how this toxic way of thinking affects people and look on it in other way. Very empowering to me! (I'm not fluent in english, hope I wrote everything right xdd)
I really hope no innocent child/teenager with abusive parents watches their video and then starts thinking that maybe it's their fault that they see their parents so poorly. These two infuriate me.
As someone trained in CBT, these 2 are an example of why a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing! What they are advocating is the absolute opposite of what I would advocate. Thought suppression is massively unhelpful, and the more you try not to think of something the more you will think of it.
let me tell you as a (male) therapist, I have to spend time with some of my female clients deconstructing a lot of pathologizing language around their very valid emotions. The amount of times they refer to their feelings as "psycho", "crazy", a "woman" thing is appalling given the contexts often make sense. This socialization is hurting so many women and their relationships with friends, partners, families
preach!
thank you so much for what you do!!
Amen, whenever a guy calls their ex crazy I know to swerve clear of the guy. To me it’s a massive red flag!
Also hate the way guys are told to just not have emotions.
YES! I so so so agree. I think it also sets the stage for men to normalize and excuse abuse and gaslighting in their culture which is SO dangerous.
I am a trans man, and its been a journey to allow myself to have loud and strong feelings without feeling hysterical and also without filtering them through the 'its just hormones' mindset
I can't deal with these grown, married women, mothers, continuing to refer to women as "girls." I realize it's in their business name, but I can't.
Religious fundies like to infantilize women
Media dose it all the time. It is infuriating.
I honestly think their target audience is younger women in their teens. So it makes sense.
Its partially due to their religious influence. Christianity, especially the fundamentalism they tend to subscribe to, encourages immaturity as signs of purity or "innocence". Women especially are treated and taught to view themselves as these precious, childlike creatures designed to be guided by their fathers and then their husbands. Its gross.
@@Darknienna08 🤢 that’s so disturbing
"Repressing your emotions in a god-honoring™️ way"
…have they read the Psalms?
@@cashwalk7253 But David was a man so it’s fine /s
@@cashwalk7253 exactly. psalms goes into humanity and emotions a lot. the bible also talks about the strength of women.
God gave us emotions, so that's kind of contradictory.
I used to follow them, but certain things they have said over the years has rubbed me the wrong way.
I follow Bare Marriage with Sheila Wray Gregoire & her daughter, Rebecca Gregoire Lindenbach. They made a podcast talking specifically about Paul & Morgan, but it applies to more people.
They basically said, "Let's stop listening to these Christian influencers solely for the fact they're young, have a following, & tend to be good looking."
Nothing wrong with talking about one's own experiences, but one can't make a claim about something without backing it up with real evidence.
I’m just starting the video, but something that I remember from my time as a Christian is how *emotional* Jesus was. He cried. He sobbed. He destroyed a temple in anger. He literally sweat blood from the stress and anguish of the upcoming crucifixion, and asked God if there was any other way to save the world. If a “perfect” person didn’t censor/monitor His own emotions, what hope do the rest of us have?
I went through a difficult loss when I was 18, and I remember confessing to my pastor how angry I was with God that He would let this happen. She told me that God was much bigger than any anger, hurt, sadness, etc that I could feel, then looked me in the eyes and said, “so if you want to be angry with Him, or yell at Him, or tell Him how hurt you are… I think that’s okay. He’s big enough to handle it.”
Wow. This comment is just... beautiful. We need more of this perspective, and I'm saying this as an atheist.
Dude. And nevermind his emotions. He got so pissed off at the Hoban race HE created for being heathens that he closed the whole freaking earth.
The jealousy of not wanting anyone to worship false idols?
The pissing contest (that is basically what it was) he got into with the devil over whether or not Job would forsake him? Like really? What do you have to prove? You're God. And especially to an angel you cast out of heaven.
I'm fairly convinced God is an emotional being. Just saying. So I'm pretty sure our emotions are just a human thing that comes with the territory, not sinful
There are plenty of Psalms which openly express the Psalmist's sorrow, anguish, fear, despair, loneliness, and desperate pleas to God for help. The psalmist never attempts to hide whatever it was they were going through; in Psalm 102, it even says 'For you have taken me up and thrown me aside. My days are like the evening shadow; I wither away like grass.' Psalm 88 says 'For my soul is full of trouble and my life draws near the grave...I am set apart with the dead, like the slain who lie in the grave whom you remember no more.' When I was going through a dark time in my life a few years ago, the honesty of those verses and others definitely comforted me.
I don't think God wants us to conceal what our true feelings from him are, even if they aren't 'good'. And if we do, it'll only become a problem which effectively stops us from being 'real' with God.
HE WEPT AT THE DEATH OF LAZARUS. Jesus was about to resurrect him...but he still mourned his death....
exactly! and the bible says it is sinful to react BADLY in response to your emotions. example: you are going to feel angry but its a sin to go punch the person you are angry at... ugh
I love how they say "girls have more crazy emotions!" and then IMMEDIATELY give the example of Bethany being less openly emotional than her husband, only to go on talking about how much more emotional "girls" are. They don't even stop for a second to consider that maybe, just maybe, the way individuals show/process emotions may have more to do with their personalities than their gender.
👏🏼 👏🏼
periodt
Imagine how far less annoying they would be if they had some capacity for self-reflection. They speaks so fast it's a wonder they are even coherent.
They routinely run face first into the point and still. fucking. miss it. 🙃
@@MickeyAtkins exactly!!!
I think the most healing and validating thing I was ever told was “you’re not being irrational, you’re having a rational reaction to an irrational situation”
Changed my entire thought process.
Thank you for saying this.
@@Thi-Sen Any time ^_^
I hope this helps you as much as it helped me
@@CraftyVegan Me, too! It seems small, but this thought will be absolutely revolutionized my life. I am seeing myself in a far kinder, not-self-deprecating light.
@@Thi-Sen good ^_^
I’m glad you’re being kinder to yourself.
I’m proud of you for that 👍
My therapist reminded me of this all the time. It was about complex trauma so the language was that I adapted to irrational situations but yeah.
I find it weird that their example with the snails involves them having empathy for a creature that, in that moment, might have been more helpless. To downplay that empathy as something ridiculous and out of control feels so odd to me.
Exactly what i was thinking!!
My thoughts here are that it's because sexism tells us that empathy is a female emotion i.e. bad and shameful - even if you are a female yourself. (At least that's the sort of shit I grew up feeling.)
i don't know, women are supposed to be understanding and empathetic towards men to an almost unreasomable amoint, so i wouldn't say it is bad because it is female. It might make it bad in men, but when you feel shameful because you empathetic as a female that doesn't make sense. It's rather thia conservative american thing where you are supposed to be so ambitious that the pain of others is to be ignored if it serves your cause.
Right? I thought their reaction was not uncalled for. They showed care for the little creatures who couldn’t help themselves. Isn’t that more like Jesus than turning off your emotion to watch them crumble beneath the weight of someone’s feet?
Kinda makes me wonder what role that kind of empathy-squelching plays in making people complacent when patriarchal figures start hurting OTHER conscious beings. How many people in these fundie circles have had nagging thoughts that their in-group was being cruel or hateful to others, only to terminate the thought with some version of the snail story?
“You just have to control your thinking!” Thanks gals, my anxiety is cured.
“I was unhappy in my marriage and cried a lot. I had to repress those thoughts and feelings to survive.” It’s sad really. They’re sooo disempowered.
I've tried to clarify to my child that he doesn't get in trouble because he gets angry. "It is normal to feel anger and to be angry. What gets you into trouble, is what you do with the anger and how you let it affect your behavior. Being calm, does not mean you stop being angry. It means you take back control from your anger."
Same. I always tell my kids that anger and sadness and frustration are part of being human, and there are healthy ways to express and release those emotions. That being destructive or harmful aren't going to get to the root of their issue. It's super important to create a safe environment for kids to express and work through those emotions because as I kid I was told to hide them. That it would embarrass my mom if I acted up. That there was a time and place to be angry. Basically my mom would tell me to hold off until I was away from the public eye to be upset. It was really damaging as a child to have that drilled into me. Now as a mom I make sure my kids feel like they can have those emotions, and together we will work through them together. Even if I cannot solve their problems, I will still help them work through their emotions.
Whenever I have a disproportionately strong emotional reaction, it's a trauma response, not "crazy girl emotions." And the fact that my whole life I was told I was "too sensitive" and to "stop acting crazy," meant I didn't realize this was a trauma response until I was 25. So yeah, their content is harmful and makes me so sad.
PS love the hair!
It's a turama response?!?! I mean i knew i have turama but man this really puts my problems in a completely different light
@@RenDoesThings well, for me it is. When I have a disproportionate reaction, it's because something about the situation connects to my trauma. When we first started dating and I first started realizing this, I would say to my partner "I'm upset about this, but I'm a lot more upset than makes sense to me. I'm trying to figure it out and when I do, I'd like to talk about it." That way, he knew there was a reason I wasnt talking about being upset as opposed to me being passive aggressive.
I'd never thought about "over the top" emotions steming from trauma, but it makes so much sense. From a fellow sensitive "too much" human, thank you for this perspective.
@@RenDoesThings everyone can have different reasons for strong emotional reactions but it doesn't just come out of nowhere for no reason and it also doesn't make anyone crazy.
I have adhd and one of the symptoms is a low ability to deal with frustration, so I have 2 minute angry or crying outbursts, specially because I live in a tropical place but hate the heat, to most people when they see it (what is not very often) it seems uncalled and childish but it's just how I'm wired.
that happens to me too, ppl need to stop gaslighting !
As a person who is literally insane, hearing "Crazy Girl Emotions" Hurts. Hurts a lot. It's so depressing to see these women get a fanbase of impressionable girls and ruin their lives.
I'm really glad you brought this up. So, I don't allow my team to use the word "Crazy" to describe anything at work. Well.. allow isn't the right word, but we have diversity and inclusion talks very regularly and I FREQUENTLY bring up this word and the impact it can have on people who are dealing with serious mental or emotional health concerns in their lives or family.
And people try really hard to kind of nod like "Oh wow, never thought of that before!" but I know some think it's overkill. I even did when I first thought of it (And I also suffer from mental health struggles and am neuro-divergent, so it's not like I didn't already know on some level) And people mess it up because that word is so baked into our everyday descriptions of things. Like 'That accident on the highway this morning was CRAZY!" or "I ate a crazy amount of hot cheetos last night" or whatever. It's such a standard vocabulary catch-all for A HUGE RANGE of different feelings about different experiences. Like "The accident I drove past was really scary and I've been thinking about it a lot today" or "You'll forgive me if I'm a little flatulent. I ate more hot cheetos than my IBS can tolerate" or whatever. So I always encourage people to remember to try and not use the word like this. Nobody gets hurt AND they get to tell a much more entertaining or interesting anecdote if they use more accurate language. And not blanketing over shocking or difficult experiences can also trigger your workmates to make sure you ARE actually doing ok after seeing a bad accident, or if you DO need a bit of extra time in the bathroom after the hot cheeto binge or whatever.
Anyway, I'm rambling. I agree with you.
@@BeckBeckGo Crazy, insane, mental- all three of those words are used and can be used interchangeably to do exactly what you said, but all of them stem from one origin and have the same definition. And it's really sad and speaks volumes to society's conscious and subconscious view of people who have a mental illness.
@@BeckBeckGo I've been working on clearing the words "crazy" and "insane" out of my figurative vocabulary, replacing them with more specific words like "absurd" and "ridiculous", and similarly broad words like "wild"
@@GarnetHeartIllustrations personally my favorite alternative is "bonkers", it's a funny word and doesn't have ableist implications (afaik)
I am also technically "insane" (cluster b disorders) but I think it's funny to use the words crazy and insane. I do not see how it's offensive and I don't care if people call me "psychopath" or other such strongly stigmatized words.
“Crazy girl emotions” reminds me of my (male) boss calling me “emotionally charged.”
Or like when you're pissed of and a man, any man, asks if you're having your period.
Oh just reading that made me cringe. I can’t imagine hearing it. Not only is that misogynistic but way out of line.
@@northshoregirl8173 Or my mom. She's been known to ask this.
I've noticed that as soon as a man feels a little bit threatened by a woman calling out their bullshit, she is immediately labeled "crazy". I've heard it for decades now.
Yeah it's just sexism
In my experience with the Evangelical Church is that, emotions are allowed to be had if they're positive. Negative emotions are allowed, for 5 min until you pray and then you're happy again. Prayer fixes everything.
Depression was 'prayed away' so when you weren't happy afterwards it was because you didn't pray hard enough. Toxic positivity starts here.
For REAL!!!!!! Every bad thing has some god reason behind it, count it joy when awful shit happens all of that! It’s like can you all just shut up and let me be miserable for a bit! I’m so glad that I’m out of it
I used to be told "there's not such a thing as an unhappy Christian". Such a painful thing to hear. Because if you're unhappy you are not a Christian.
Oddly enough, it was kind of the same when I was in New Age. It's weird how it always comes back to controlling emotions...
That might be why the Duggars are always smiling. It’s not because they’re happy, but because they’re pretending to be.
It reminds me of how some members of family tell me to smile whenever I feel sad or down. It's like...I can't. But yeah, I've been through the "pray the depression away" when I was in middle school. Thankfully, I've deconverted when I was in college because of many reasons besides toxic positivity.
"that's called meditation" THAT'S THE OPPOSITE OF MEDITATION
ruminating has your mind go a mile a minute and the goal of meditation is to quiet the mind 😭
Not trying to be a jerk about their personalities, because I actually love chatty people (when they're not completely toxic like these two), but I could never picture either of these minds being capable of quieting down.
Maybe “quieting the mind” isn’t the perfect analogy here. The way I see medication is that you’re focused in the moment and focusing (and maybe enjoying) what is immediately in front of you.
Ruminating is never about the present. It’s your mind racing about something that happened 5 years ago that nobody else remembers but you, or the fears you have about something happening in the future.
Mediation is about being in the moment. Rumination is being anywhere but.
"Woefully ill-equipped" is the perfect description for these two and their advice. I'm always surprised when I'm reminded how old they are -- they have such a strong 16 year old vibe to them. Sixteen year olds who have lived in a little bubble their whole lives
I always thought when I heard girl defined for the first time is they sound like high schoolers
Maybe because their target audience is high schoolers. Think how many adults who work with kids talk like kids themselves.
Mikey: "human beings are always inherently--"
My fundamentalist-indoctrinated brain: SINFUL.
Mikey: "worthy of love and belonging"
Me: 😬
I've been deconstructing for almost ten years at this point, and that is STILL where my brain goes. That's the problem with these fundamentalist fkers. Years of therapy, and I STILL think this way. Oof.
Just wanted to pop in and encourage you and say "keep up the good work" and I get it. Sending you peace and love!
You got this, girl!
Big same, friend. It takes time to root out these toxic ways of thinking, particularly when they were so constantly reinforced through your youth. And I swear it's cyclical. I'll think I'm past it and then I gotta go back and relearn the truth. ❤️
For real that sentence got me good
keep it up love!! proud of you for continuing to work on it!!
When she started explaining in detail her symptom of anxiety, I thought she was going to talk about how she controls it, but instead followed it with "and that's called MEDITATION 😀" I HAVE NEVER LAUGHED HARDER IN MY LIFE. I did not see that coming.
My reaction was "No it's f***ing not!!!!".
I'm just horrified that someone out there is going to see that and think their anxiety-fuelled ruminating is good. Arrgh!!!
I’m pretty sure that rumination is the diametric opposite of meditation. One is about stewing on your own thoughts, while the other is about bringing about peace through clearing your mind.
Lmfaoa
The fact that meditation is pretty much the exact opposite of what she described 😂😭
THANK YOU for the talk on the constant guilt trips/anxiety. I remember Mr. Atheist saying once, imagine growing up being told that red shirts were bad. Then one day as an adult you wear a red shirt, and you feel guilty. Is there anything wrong with wearing a red shirt? Of course not. You feel guilty because you were TOLD to feel guilty. GD's flavor of religion is VERY MUCH the same as how I was raised. It has taken me years, therapy, and money to get away from the constant feelings of guilt and shame about things that are totally fine. I HATE that young women are still being brainwashed like this. I HATE it.
@@ItBeThatWaySometimes I'm not a fan of dogging on people who struggle with their mental health, but I agree with that. His videos REALLY helped me deconstruct from religion.
@@ItBeThatWaySometimes wait what do you mean?
@@Sunny-fg4bc look up “jimmy snow controversy” it’s pretty bad
@@saltydinonuggies1841 thank you! I’ll check it out!
Hi Melissa--thank you for sharing your experiences in escaping from the toxic flavor of religion that the Girl Defined community pushes. ❤ Having been raised in a strict Catholic household, I grew up in a similar environment where guilt, shame, low self-worth, and a heapin' helpin' of patriarchy was woven into the fabric of our childhood beliefs.
Like you, it took me years to escape that mindset (thanks to lots of therapy!) and build healthy relationships with not only people around me, but myself as well. I'm 52 now, and it saddens me that young women still fall prey to this kind of brainwashing--and women like Kristin and Bethany enable its perpetuation via their platform. :(
“That’s called meditation!” Me: “WHAT???” 🤣🤣🤣 Also when I saw the thumbnail I said “Oh cool, time to watch Mickey repeatedly attempt to rip her face off.”
I know, right?
my jaw literally dropped at the ignorance
Their mislabeling of Meditation brought back up memories in growing up in a Fundamentalist Christian environment.
I was taught that you were constantly “medicating” all the time, aka, you were thinking about things. Kristen talking about “Meditating” in bed before sleep is a “bad” version of “meditation” because, ideally and if you were a good Christian, you’re supposed to be “meditating” on Gods word.
A lot of people I knew growing up thought and believed that Eastern Meditation or Mindfulness Meditation was evil because it’s an open invitation to let unruly, sinful thoughts creep into one’s mind…
The stupidity and ignorance they continue to display is truly astounding. They should be ashamed and they should not have any type of platform whatsoever.
In context, 'meditation' can be used to describe a person's contemplation and exploration of a particular subject - Marcus Aurelius and Descartes both have works using it that way. OTOH, kinda doubt GD have heard of either.
If someone thinks crying over a snail is somehow inappropriate (it isn't, like I am 29 years old and I would cry too), how do they justify that? Like... what is the harm in crying because an innocent creature you just saw alive and well a few minutes ago is dead? It feels really weird to hear two people acting like that was a sinful thing to do. I really do feel bad for these people... the level of rationalizations they have to engage in must be horrible and exhausting. And the toxic positivity! My god! "As teens we should have been grateful for our parent's curfew!" No, honestly that would be creepy. If I heard a teen saying they were grateful for their parent's rules I would be really confused. Not because rules are bad, but because teens are supposed to be rebelling against them. It's... what they do. Obviously there is a level at which that too becomes problematic, but they're at least supposed to be a little salty about it you know? It's part of growing up. We do not have to be grateful for every shitty thing that happens to us, jesus fuck! Let people be sad or angry!!
Any teen saying that must be a horrifically abused teen .
@@FunFilmFare☝🏻 this comment 👀
Started going to therapy 2 weeks ago. Our first session was OK. I felt th therapist was a little patronizing with his words, but I let it go because I blamed our culture. Men talk down to women all the time without realizing it or intending to hurt them.
Th 2nd session i asked him for advice on how to handle my emotions when I felt they were disproportionate to th circumstances. His response was "close your eyes and think of all the good things in your life. Just try not to think of the bad things that are sparking bad emotions." I have since signed up with a new therapist (female) and hope she is more helpful. 🤞
Yikes 😬
I wish you the best of luck
I am glad you are switching therapists. I went though 4 before I found one that was a good fit.
Oof. Just want you to know it can be a process finding the right person. I saw several therapists before finding one that really clicked. She’s helped me change my life :)
I hope your next therapist is a good one and helps you! Even if she isn't, don't give up and keep looking! Sometimes it takes time and you gotta shop around to find one that works well with you and the problems you wish to work through. But hopefully you don't have to search any more
"Feel the feels, control the actions" is what I tell myself. And for me, it works.
You know, when I feel like punching someone, I don't, but I also don't scorn myself for feeling anger because that's not going to help either.
You nailed it. Feel the feels, control the actions.
uh I agree until you said you scorn yourself bc emotions are not good or bad they are neutral. They just exist. You shouldn't shame yourself for feeling it that's not healthy.
@@jclyntoledo you misread. I said I DON'T scorn myself
wow ok this actually sounds so helpful, I'll try to incorporate this in my life asap
Hey I like this imma steal it
I find it crazy that they're using a time when they had compassion for animals as an example of stupid emotions getting out of hand. I don't see that as silly. Compassion is a good thing. Bethany and Kristen don't have a great track record for showing empathy for other humans, so it's striking that they're using compassion for animals as an example of feeling stupid emotions that's in some way a bad thing.
All I could think about was "Thought control" which is cult-like behavior.
The E in the BITE model stands for Emotion control which these two demonstrate in spades. My goodness.
@@feliciascorner9795 Yeah. The BITE model could probably fit a lot of what they do and say, but it was just my gut reaction to be like "Dang, they're practically gaslighting themselves."
"No, I can't be annoyed my parents make me come home at ten when Jessie's parents let her stay out until eleven! I have to be grateful my parents are looking out for me!"
We get a double whammy of thought control and emotion control in this one
Omg thank you I was talking about the Bite model yesterday and couldn't remember the T and then forgot before I googled it lol.
Oh crap please explain
These people really really have to be careful about what they call “sin” as a child I struggled with bulimia (still do unfortunately) and I remember my Sunday school teacher praying out loud in front of the whole class for “my sin of bulimia” that is the exact thing that will make a child’s eating disorder worse and lead to even more mental illness…
I was raised in a Christian home with Christian parents/grandparents/extended family that spoke like this. It’s an entire language for them, and only other Christians get it. The whole thing with sin leading to shame and fear and therefore those being “sinful” emotions kept me up at night thinking I was a “bad” person for not being able to just “trust god”. But really I have chronic anxiety, and I’ve been gaslighting myself over my emotions my entire life. I’ve been a proud and out atheist for like 8 years now, but the long term trauma from feeling unsafe in your own head takes a damn long time to go away.
Right there with you. The constant shame and fear...I'm not sure I will ever get over it. 😕 Wishing you continued healing and peace.
i am a christian. my boyfriend who is also a christian and went to bible school told me that sin is “something that denies the humanity of you or another.” so yes, shame is sinful, but not because it makes you “bad” (in fact, that in itself is shame), but because you are DENYING yourself your humanity. you are a child of God as a human. God wants you to turn to him. shame causes you to turn away from him. i have since changed my attitude towards sin. instead of letting sin push us away from God in shame, sin should push us TOWARD God so we can look to him for grace and healing.
so in conclusion: i know you are atheist, but what i would have suggested to you at that time was to turn to God in your anxiety, and also therapy, because God has grace for that and desires your healing, and ultimately to reframe the conversation that ill-informed Christians (who are also themselves in need of God) hurt you with. when Jesus died, he took all of that shame and hurt and pain and anxiety with him to the cross and then beat it and rose again. all he wants is for you to lean on him.
@@SparklesNJazz I appreciate the sentiment, but you cannot force faith. You cant force yourself to believe in something you don’t, and I spent a long time hating myself for not being able to just “believe”. I couldn’t just trust god, I couldn’t lean on the concept of god because he hadnt answered any of my prayers. Every life situation I made it out of, I made it out of without “his” help. And then when I’d ask people why he allows things to happen to undeserving people, they’d say it’s cause we sinned first. I don’t know what sect or what seminary you or your bf are in, but i was raised Calvinist baptist, and the whole thing is that you are going to suffer until you trust god. That’s really just gaslighting with extra steps, because you will not stop suffering. You might have a nice comforting placebo to replace the self hatred, but your life will continue to have stressors. I can’t count the amount of times I watched people I love deny themselves their dreams because it wasn’t “God’s plan”. My grandma is gay, she told me about her girlfriend she was in love with in college, but she is never going to come out to another soul. She is married to a man that she “loves” and hasn’t slept with him in probably 15 years. It keeps me up at night, that my grandma will deny herself for the rest of her life because a book told her to.
Frankly, god has a lot to answer for in my book if he DOES exist. Like, “why don’t you every call ME? You’re omnipotent and omnicent and omnipresent right? So why can’t you just pick up a phone and go, ‘ay girl I will try to get back to you in the next couple weeks, I’ve been inundated with a lot of prayers, really crazy week, etc”
Also, the fact that the Abrahamic religions are all mutually exclusive- and that means that god is also a part of one specific clique. So not only do you have to pick the *right* version, but all the other versions are doomed to hell because they didn’t have enough info? I just can’t. Rational people just get fed up with the concept of god because you can use it to excuse everything in your life. And you can adjust the interpretation to meet you exactly where you are, good or bad. Men have used it to force submission in their wives, children, other women, etc. church leaders use it to scare people into tithing. If god was present, you wouldn’t need churches or an outdated, badly translated book
@@SparklesNJazz But no one is redeemed without repentance towards God, belief on The Lord Jesus Christ and faith.
Oof just left the church last year. How long does it take to feel safe?
Also I can say from experience that this messaging to just be "grateful for your parents" can make the experience of abused children much worse.
YOUR HAIR!!
im glad you are still here
like, even if it was hormones, it doesnt mean it's unreal...
@@kdog5226 thank you!
I hope you're in a place now where you can express your feelings and have them met with validation. You deserve love, support, and proper treatment. I'm glad you're still here because you're a force of good in this world. Also - not an exact parallel - but my dad used to try to comfort me by telling me "all teenagers are depressed. You'll feel better when you're older." I understand now what he was trying to say, but when I hit my early 20s my mental illness spiraled out of control. I became frantic. I thought my depression & anxiety were literally going to dissolve once I reached age 18.
@@coralineschmidt1078 EXACTLY
i hate when teenagers are shamed for being "ovely" emotional due to hormones and puberty
like,, they're still feeling real emotions and even if it might seem extreme to someone else, that doesn't mean that they're wrong for the way they feel
Tbh I think they're reaching back to high school because they are still trying to relate to children, they know who their audience is.
I know and I find that rather creepy.
Yea thats what i was thinking.
@@jane-cn6nd I would have to agree, I don't understand why they wouldn't want to relate to other grown women...
The problem with Girl Defined is their whole channel is based around the concept "One size fits all". And if it doesn't, you have force it to fit otherwise you're going to hell.
Five years ago the church where I went suffered a great tragedy. There was a bus crash and 13 senior adults were killed. You can be damn sure there were negating emotions felt that night. And you can also be sure that I was shamed for still feeling sad weeks and months later. I hate hate hate that as a Christian I was always told to be happy and positive. I’m so glad I’m out now.
That's so bad as a Christian it frustrates me when some Christians do that.
@@carolinpurayidom4570 Dude same.
My grandfather had a very different view of sin and I always resonated with it. Sin is when you do something that hurts others, you are aware that it hurts others, and you do it anyways. That's sin. You know something is wrong and harmful and you do it anyways. Having emotions isn't sinful, it's being a fricken human. Being gay, trans, enby, etc isn't sinful. Touching someone who you know doesn't want to be touched, is sinful. You know they don't want to be touched and yet you do it anyways. Does that make sense?
It makes sense but it’s not the biblical definition
@@coffeehag they didn't say it was the biblical definition. They said their grandpa had a different view of sin 😁
I like this definition a lot more than the ones i learned as a kid in catholic school. Ur grandpa sounds cool, thank u for sharing :)
@@renl9893 oddly enough, my grandfather was a Catholic. He took Jesus' message a bit differently than most do.
@@coffeehag honestly it should be
As someone who’s Autistic and has ADHD, and who was raised in a fundamentalist Christian environment, I’m sure as hell not gonna listen to a f*cking word Kristen and Bethany say on how to deal with my emotions.
I went undiagnosed for years, I’ve had tremendous struggles in even labeling my emotions (I still sometimes do) and I’m unpacking a lot of the shit that Girl Defined stigmatized as “sinful” emotional beliefs in therapy.
The fact that I’m in my early 30s and have learned, in the past year, that negative emotions aren’t “bad/sinful” has been very helpful in figuring out what the real underlying issues are can be seen as being kind of late in the game, but better late than never (not trying to shame myself, esp with my Autism/ADHD, but it’s…interesting to think about).
Thanks so much more making this video Mickey (I think it’s kind of funny that I was trying to do some wedding planning when I found out that you released this video on a Saturday)!! 😁
Hi nice to meet you, I was 26 when I learned that "negative" emotions weren't the result of a bad attitude.
I used to feel alot of shame for my emotional dysregulation before I was diagnosed with adhd and autism, bc I thought that I was having tantrums and being overly sensitive and stuff.
Knowledge and understanding, along with self compassion make a world of difference.
Me, a grown woman living with BPD: "Haha yes ""Crazy Girl Emotions"" very good ladies. Not at all offensive" 😎
"Let's see how Mickey is doing!"
*Opens with screaming*
"Oh, that bad, huh?"
Me: another Mickey takes down Girl Defined video.
Mickey: *frustrated screaming *
Me: oh this is gonna be "fun".
The idea of "crazy girl emotions," especially with regards to teenagers and adolescence, probably contributes to tons of teenaged and young adult women with depression or anxiety disorders going undiagnosed like I did.
As someone who came out of fundamentalism, I can say that we were not supposed to have emotions, and women were treated like sinful hystericals for experiencing normal feelings. I'm even less emotional than my husband (who has a mood disorder), and he was shamed even more than me in the subculture for experiencing human emotions. She was absolutely shaming her husband for being emotional. Because being self-controlled (a command in the Bible) is viewed as being emotionless and robotic. If you cannot manage that (I mean, who can?) then you're sinful. They create a need (you need to be emotionless) and then only they can fill that need (because Jesus is supposed to make you self controlled and emotionless). Then religious people are faking being perfect and emotionless becauseit's unobtainable. As a person with ADHD and C-PTSD, I could never pull this off even if I tried. This is a huge part of why I stepped away from this religious belief. I won't fake it and won't shut down all emotions. I am still a person of faith, but I no longer believe that stuff. I'm in ongoing therapy to help work through the religious trauma left in the wake of fundamentalism.
Regarding the thoughts leading to feelings, thought control is a huge part of fundamentalism. "Bad" thoughts are sinful and a sign of lack of self control. As someone who has trauma responses, my feelings are not always a direct correlation to my conscious thoughts. It's way more complicated than that.
As a fellow person struggling to overcome the toxic thought processes that fundamentalism taught me growing up, I realized early on (although I have to keep reminding myself) that these people who praise the Bible so highly aren't actually quoting it right. Like, show me a 'godly' man in the bible who didn't have 'crazy' emotions (aka, normal)... it doesn't exist! Because being human, shocker, is totally okay! I remember being told not to get angry and reading the story of Samson, like literally everything he did "for God" was out of anger, so clearly the emotions are not a problem even if you want to stick strictly to the bible. Girl Defined is just not educated enough I think to speak accurately about even their own religion.
Yikes, I don't like the overrighteous.
Self-control is not a command! Love is!
I'm glad you are out of that!
I'm probably not in the best place to say this, but self control is a result of dealing with or handling a problem. The best thought control I know is forgiveness.
That means it's gonna be messy before that. Plus, a loving stance is always best.
Btw the self control which is regarded as a fruit in the Bible is meant to be from God working on people, it's not our own strength cuz we risk of policing wrongly and getting ourselves and others far from... "God's peace".
Don't tell me Psalms was not a dude dealing with his emotions and going haywire at times.
May your recovery go well!
@🦋Timileyin Destinee🦋 I've made this argument. I agree with you! They ignore whatever doesn't suit their narrative
My fundie-lite parents are the most emotionally controlled people I know. I was a very emotive child and experienced so much shame. In adult life, I really feel like I missed out on a critical period of learning how to express my feelings in a healthy way. Good for you for working so hard toward authenticity.
It’s like Christianity and ADHD are incompatible with each other .
“To take my thoughts captive”…I love it when my fellow Christians take one phrase or one verse and build an entire dogma off of it…it’s my favorite 🙄
I'm a very emotional person. My whole life i was told that I'm too sensitive and take things too seriously. When I'm tired I'm especially prone to crying or getting upset over small things.
Just yesterday I was tired after spending the day gardening and doing yard work which I love. Seriously it was a great day, I felt the sunshine on my back, got dirt under my nails, moved my body in ways that feel good to me. It was great. But I was tired and sore and my hands were stiff. I moved onto my sewing project and my hand was sore and not able to do the fine motor work that I needed to do and it made me upset bc I have a previous injury that caused nerve damage and I was worried that my hand was losing condition and frustrated and I cried.
Did it feel kind of silly to cry bc I was tired? Yeah, but honestly I just took care of myself (put on a movie, got myself some water, a snack and a cat to cuddle with) and I felt better. My emotions were telling me to take a pause. They weren't hurting me or anyone else. They weren't silly. They were informing me about my own state.
You're not silly. And I don't think you were crying because you were tired. I think you hit the nail on the head when you said frustrated. I would be frustrated too if I was losing an ability to do something that brought me joy because of an injury. I do tons of stuff that requires fine motor skill. And if I ever develop carpal tunnel or arthritis, it's going to kill me when I can no longer draw a well or paint or play the piano or sew or crochet or whatever.
So I totally get crying over that lack of control, especially when it's something you used to be able to have control over. Definitely not silly
@@bottomofastairwell that's very kind, thank you. I'm a lot better at it, but even in my post about how I try to honor instead of downplay my emotions, I downplayed my emotions. Guess I still have some work to do, thank you for affirming me.
My first thought when anyone cries is "what do you need?" Comfort? Attention? Validation? Space? Rest? Nourishment?
Like if a baby cries most of us would go through that mental checklist, trying to find the best response to the need behind the tears.
I wouldn't dream of dismissing anyone's tears - they are signs of an issue that deserves attention, not dismissal and definitely not suppression!
There is a very big difference between recognizing teenagers tend to be emotional due to hormones and shaming it or using it as a joke. I always found it really strange and invalidating, especially because it’s usually targeted towards teenage girls. Like when teenage girls have a breakdown it’s their silly little girl feeling and silly little girl emotions. It’s so weird.
This type of thinking is what lead to my paranoia and psychosis for 8 years straight. I was convinced that the devil was making me feel negative feelings to separate me from God. Every day, I was battling my own self! I ended up taking the leap of faith that scared me the most, and that was allowing myself not to believe anymore. I realized I was only believing out of fear, and so letting go honestly save me.
I feel the same way, hope you are healing!
@@carnystrickland4888 I am thank you! I hope you are too. 😊
2:51 was ABSOLUTELY a dig at her husband. Bethy passive-aggressively roasts him all the time. I think she simply doesn't like him all that much.
That's what happens when you rush into marriage and never kiss them before marriage and don't believe in divorce 🤷🏼♀️ lots of bitter resentment
this makes me so sad... the compartmentalization... the internalized thought-policing... creating mental compulsions to distance one's self from their true emotions...
these girls were hurt like I was by fundamentalism.. glad i got out.. sorry they didnt.
These ladies need to read the Psalms... the amount of anger, fear, sadness, grief, etc that are expressed there, freely, shamelessly. "Negative" emotions are not bad to have.
This is how you develop religious OCD :(
Can confirm 🤦
Exactly what it did to me! 😂 Currently in therapy about that issue
The worst part is a lot of evangelicals would never believe that's even a thing.
I am in the midst of deconstructing negative thoughts of my emotions being "too much" and hiding them. I come from an upper-class family who put a lot of pressure on me to "put on a face" so our family would see okay because I am the only person in the family who is neurodivergent. I'm living alone now and dealing with constant anxiety that I am being judged constantly and find myself hiding/isolating A LOT. My gf has been helping me but it has been a long process. Thank you for sharing your knowledge and thoughts ❤
Good luck my neurodivergent friend!
I really appreciate touching on the idea of "wrong" and "sinful" thoughts/feelings in religion. I can't imagine how many people have had horrible intrusive thoughts but made to choice to not act on them (proving they are good, responsible people) and still feeling in some way broken or sinful. I'm so sure there are millions of gay and trans folks suffering because of this. I'm sick of religious zealots acting like we're living in 1984 because they can't call people slurs while essentially recreating crimethink in their spaces.
cute hair btw
I was raised Presbyterian and have intrusive thoughts due to OCD. I felt intensely guilty and bad about myself as a person growing up because I had so many rude, hurtful, "unChristlike" thoughts even though I hated them, never acted on them, and couldn't control them. And this was a fairly mellow and progressive church. Religious leaders really need to work on how to frame social and emotional issues and encourage their flocks to get professional help as needed ... not that I'm about to hold my breath waiting for that
@@FiddlebirdBlue - similar here. Raised in the Australian Anglican church and I have ADHD. Being told constantly to "calm my mind" and "guard my thoughts" made me feel intensely guilty because I couldn't. I was diagnosed at 31. Once I was medicated, I realised that I had a medical condition that prevented me from doing this crap and that it wasn't my fault. I'm 46 and an atheist now.
Proper diagnosis and medication, plus a truckload of therapy has led me to being mentally healthier than I ever was pre-31.
@@FiddlebirdBlue I'm so sorry that people close to you hurt you this way. the people who should have been there to help you made you feel shame you didn't deserve. I sincerely hope you're in a better place now, having realized these issues. I wish you the best
I was raised Catholic and I can definitely relate to the feeling broken based on intrusive thoughts. Though, in the most ironic way it's not directly related to being raised Catholic, I wasn't taught such things in church/sunday school or from my Catholic side of the family. No, the Baptist side of my family (specifically my favorite extended family member who I looked up to and admired) taught me the whole 'God and everyone else in Heaven is always watching you at all times and they can see/hear your thoughts too so if you think naughty things they will Know all of them'. So me, a very vulnerable kiddo w/ undiagnosed ADHD (and anxiety and family history of paranoia) at the time got real afraid of committing thought crimes (via intrusive thoughts) against God for a long ass time.
Like, it's kinda funny to me at least, because my church was actually good in this regard. My family member who was secretly freakishly religious was the one to do it in passing.
My ex mother in law would tell her grandson to not cry when he was sad and I always thought that was unhealthy
She was a devout catholic not evangelical
I was always worried that her grandson would grow up not knowing to to handle his emotions and fears
Your hair looks amazing 🤩
Boomers LOVE telling kids to stop crying.
My father told my then-3 year old son "big boys don't cry" and I don't think I've ever had a bigger whiplash into "mama bear" than I did at that moment. "Yes they do. Crying is a normal human thing. Suppressing your emotions doesn't make you strong. Dealing with them properly does."
I admit that I was parroting my therapist there. But it's true.
Merch that says "This pushes my fucking buttons"
10/10 would purchase!
also feel like having to point out that rumination is not a form of meditation to adults giving any kind of advice on the internet is both the funniest shit i've ever watched and the most terrifying concept for vulnerable people watching their videos.i am far from a professional but i think even if i wasnt in therapy i would know that shits not helpful.
Yup!
GD: "That's the key"
Mickey: *hits pause* "No."
Love it!
negative emotions can sometimes be the only indicator to a person what's happening to them is wrong, and them saying to just ignore that gets people in very dangerous situations
I had a friend who was having a really hard time so I asked him what was wrong. It boiled down to him being incredibly upset that he was feeling feelings, like, any feelings at all. He was mad that he felt cared for, he was sad that he lost that relationship, he was enraged that he was sad. I was like, "dude, you're a person, and people feel feelings, it's not a condition unique to you."
Your hair is on point and I'm loving the streaks!
Also, thank you for acknowledging that CBT isn't for everyone. I spent years trying to explain that this method made me feel too anxious and being completely dismissed by therapist after therapist. Still struggling to figure out if therapy in general is at all helpful to me as a result.
While CBT has worked well for me, I can totally see why it doesn't work for everyone. (I happen to be very Type A who loves spreadsheets haha) I hope you find someone that can help you & listen to what works best for you
I like cbt but am a data/list oriented person also! I hope you can have the strength to advocate for yourself and find a therapist that will try something else! Maybe emdr? I've had good success with that and it's very free-form
You may find person centred therapy to be helpful, or Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT) is one that a lot of people find more beneficial when CBT hasn't worked for them.
“That’s called meditation” is sending me into orbit
The way they describe themselves as girls and not women.
It is so weird to watch these because I grew up thinking and believing the exact same way as Kristen and Bethy. I'm just like wow, no wonder I'm in therapy. Its shocking to realize how harmful these ideas are and how normal they were to me up until 3 years ago.
Good Job in getting out of the shit show!
This whole "keep your thoughts captive" shit is so triggering for me. I totally see younger more religious me in what they're saying. I used to try and control all of my thoughts to not be "sinful" and it resulted in some of the worst years of my life for mental health. So everyone needs to RUN AWAY from this toxic as fuck messaging
Me too. Not the religious thing, but the triggering thing. "It's not your circumstances that make you feel blah blah" That actually made me start crying and I think I'm gonna have to turn this off for a bit. You can clearly tell that neither of these people have been abused as children. Neglected. Violated. Traumatized in any way. Or, if they have, they've become so completely ashamed of their own existence that they literally warped and twisted into this shape. I don't know. I hope they haven't been through anything like that and that they're just privileged, thoughtless, self-absorbed airheads. I genuinely hope that's the reality here because i don't wish that on anybody. But I really also simultaneously want to stick a fork in their eyes so... Like, the meanest words to describe these two, words I normally do not like at alllll, are coming into my head and i'm very consciously not allowing them to flow through my hands into Mickey's comment section right now. Out of respect for Mickey and her platform. (Girl Disrupted, or whatever the hell you're called, if you're ever reading this, what YOU two dingleberries deserve is a good tar-and-feathering)
"Taking your thoughts captive" is something so aggressive towards one's own thoughts. It suggests that your thoughts are your enemies. However, examining your thoughts to understand what brought them on and if there are distortions affecting it is a more helpful way of going about it. Like, yeah, work on being able to slow down and check your thoughts, but they are a part of how you are processing what you're experiencing, check them for unhelpful self talk or self-shaming, etc. Understanding yourself is important, being patient and compassionate to yourself is important.
I started to realize in my early 20s I had ocd (and was later diagnosed in my late 20s). I started going to church when I was 21 and to be told you’re sinning against God with your mind when you have intrusive thoughts. It’s a mind fuck. Literally. It took going to therapy and being told that people are born good and then the trauma happens later on and we learn to react to it and hide our problems. That it’s a trauma response, not Satan. That I have a mental disorder and it’s ok. So hearing you talk about how bad it is to police your own thoughts is really reassuring. Because it was exhausting for awhile there.
Thank you for this. “It’s a trauma response, not Satan.” hits really hard in a good way.
Love hearing that intrusive/anxious thoughts are because life can be shitty and hard and our brain is just trying to deal... and not because some evil master manipulator trying to sneak into my brain. Somehow that is nicer and easier to deal with and I didn’t realize I had that sort of internalized still...
@@jennagrace1534 ❤️🩹
I literally had a conversation with a Christian coworker last week about this. She was trying to say that having sinful thoughts was because we live in a fallen world and that people were inherently sinful. I didn't want to get into my personal OCD and intrusive thoughts so I just chose to tell her that I cannot believe that and I choose to think that people are inherently good and just react based on their needs being met or unmet.
I grew up Christian and I remember when I first started seeing a therapist one of the first things we talked about was how it was okay to feel emotions and that I wasn’t an evil person for feeling sad. Like I legit thought I was just so demonic for being depressed without a valid reason to be depressed.
Girl Defined: You need to control your thoughts
Me, diagnosed with OCD: 😳
The basic fucking concept of OCD treatment is that you cannot control your thoughts in a way that is healthy or beneficial!
Obsessed with the new hair queen! Thank you for the videos you make you've helped me so so much
Sammmeeee 😭
That "you just need to think about this circumstance differently" has also definitely been used against me by an abuser. Like no, actually, you were directly causing my unhappiness and leaving was the best thing I ever did for myself and now I'm happier. Changing circumstance can actually change emotions, funny how that works.
I love the part you included about people believing in God without this toxic theology! I can’t speak for everyone but where I attend (via web lol) the pastor makes a point about embracing our emotions and asking for help DEALING with them not avoiding them. Love your videos! 😊
I (female) had my therapist repeatedly tell me to actually feel my emotions instead of trying to logic my way out of emotions since I favour logic and reason over emotions, so I pushed emotions down and invalidate my own emotions. I still struggle with it from time to time. The repeated idea that "girls have crazy emotions" always brings an idea to my mind that I'm having "crazy girl emotions" when I express an emotion, even when I am just validating my own emotions in a healthy manner
My work just did a thing about controlling your thinking to make your life better and I think I strained my eyes from rolling them so hard. They also claimed that feelings always come from thoughts but didn't mention that thoughts can come from feelings (both emotional and physical!) too. It was a whole mess.
I will be 32 this Friday. If someone stepped on a snail I would probably be visibly upset. I have pet snails, but still I feel like them as teenagers had an age appropriate reaction.
What girl defined totally left out when they basically regurgitated what CBT is, is the “disputation” part! CBT helped me a lot because journaling helps me. The beginning of the “thought record” journalling with “activating event, thoughts, feelings behaviors” releases my spiraling thoughts by getting it out on physical paper. THEN the detective work/disputation analyses what I’ve recorded and allows me to reflect on what “unhelpful thinking styles” I may be engaging in and questioning how my anxiety/depression/trauma history is causing me to have beliefs that aren’t grounded in reality, which alleviates my overwhelming emotions. Also I like questions like “what would I say to a friend who is experiencing what i’m experiencing now?” Because I tend to be more patient with others than myself. Girl defined totally missed the nuanced concepts in CBT that make it relevant to the user and potentially healing. Just forcing yourself to think happy thoughts and expect to feel happy doesn’t work.
Idk if this helps to understand, but I grew up in this culture. When they talk about "meditation" they basically mean "rumination". There's conversations about meditating on things and it basically just means what you're focusing on or thinking a lot about; and trying to keep those things godly to like "train your brain" (form mental habits to jump to a positive/godly thing not a negative/sinful thing). Hope this helps :)
As someone with ibs and bpd, the emotions are like poop metaphor hit close to home 😅
Off note: Your hair looks SO GOOD
It even matches her shirt it looks awesome
Not me forgetting Mickey has tattoos because she's never worn a tank top before 👁️👄👁️
Also LOVE THE HAIRRRRRRRR TREAT YOSELF
"Us gays and our tingling feet"
That's a shirt i would wear bc my bisexual ass can't sit right for the life of me
Their entire video feels like an exercise in thought control, and that comes across as pretty cult-y to me.
As an OCD survivor, I can confidently say, that this type of preaching these women give, would have been life threatening to my younger self.
I feel like I'm watching a couple of permanent teenagers trying to explain emotions. I'm not trying to put them down, but if I want to learn and grow (especially when it comes to emotions), it wouldn't be through watching them. Thank you for encouraging and explaining how to feel our emotions in a munch healthier way.
32:09
Mickey: I'm yelling about emotions on the Internet WITH qualifications, thank you!
Probably one of the most significant breakthroughs I've had in therapy was when I was starting to treat my depression in therapy and was beginning to feel emotions instead of just feeling empty all the time and I was so confused because I was like what??? This feels rubbish??? But then realizing that all emotions are just part of the human experience, and it's not supposed to feel good all the time and there isn't anything wrong with me for not feeling good all the time - that was life changing
It seems that they're confusing "take a breath and count to 10" with "ask god to stuff your emotions away". First one is fine I suppose as long as it's from a place of rationalising I suppose? And you need to know you might have to process it some other time (for example being angry with a child's behavior but keeping your cool and letting off steam when your partner is back home)
They constantly link everything to God, because it's part of their brand. However, I can't help but wonder if they are compensating for something...like lack of faith.
I was raised to link EVERYTHING to God. Every decision big or small. Every area of my life was meant to have God at the center of it. It may not be just a brand thing, because a lot if people are raised this way.
I love your content, and the new hair! I have a bachelors in psychology and plan to get my masters to be a therapist as well. :) CBT has been under fire for a good reason, and I absolutely love how well you explained all of this! It helped me further understand too! I watch other youtubers call out these two and I catch myself thinking "Do they not know how to critically think?" and also YES "Throw myself out the window" haha
I commented on another post about how CBT working for me, but my therapist didn't do that these 2 have done and say "oh, you had that negative thought? So just don't have it!!!" Hearing the critiques of it is also helping me understand if it's what I need as I continue my mental health journey. But, again, "bury your sinful emotions & don't acknowledge those bad thoughts ever again" is, uh, not it, girls!
Also good luck getting your masters! I am sure you will crush it!
Dude their suggestions are some of the exact ideas that caused my nervous breakdown
The puppies 😍💕 super therapeutic. Also, the information presented was helpful and helped me understand why CBT, when poorly presented to myself as a teen, did not work for me, and actually made the feeling I had about myself worse. Thanks Mickey 😊
"Your environment doesn't effect your emotions, only your thoughts do" is so entrenched in controlling situations (like say...a religious cult...). It's not OUR fault, YOU'RE crazy because YOU'RE thinking the wrong way. Think Approved Thoughts and you'll stop being so crazy.
It kills coming and going--your situation isn't bad, you're just thinking bad; and therefore the same is true for everyone else who expresses 'bad' emotions like anger or sadness. Even if it turns out your emotional reactions are being caused by mental illness, the problem is on _you_ for failing in some way and the emotions you've expressed are proof of that--a perfect circle of blame focused on the person who's _inconveniencing_ others by expressing their unhappiness.
Am I the only one who doesn't even think how they reacted about the snails was extreme?? I mean I would react that way now as a 27 year old adult 🤷♀️ But I'm also autistic and have ADHD so I tend to feel emotion more intensely
The other day, my daughter and I moved a worm off the sidewalk so he wouldn't dry up in the sun. Young girls often empathize with little critters. It a good and endearing thing. Calling girls having human emotions "crazy" is unhealthy.
Thank you for naming anxiety about anxiety. This is my ex-mo husband’s experience and I’ve never heard a therapist (or anyone else) name this reality. Thank you
I grew up in a very strict Christian household, not fundie but definitely very strict & Godly. I consider myself a Christian to this day but I also recognize the toxicity some of these churches & people have in the messages that they preach. I started going to counseling when I got older & my dad was skeptical because for a long time I heard "You need to talk to God more" but it helped SO MUCH & it opened his eyes as well. I think there's this stigma around counseling because if you have a good relationship with God you don't need it which is not true whatsoever. God gives us the tools to help ourselves & that is NOT sinful. I think everyone could benefit from counseling even if it's just to gain a new perspective. It's also very important to have a counselor or therapist that respects your beliefs but isn't going to preach at you & says "This is what the Bible says"
My counselor respected what I believed but also recognized that my mom what toxic af. She didn't preach to me that cutting my mom out of my life was unbiblical which is what I was afraid of. She turned out to be absolutely amazing & helped me so much.
As a fellow therapist, I kept thinking I might have something to add, but you basically covered it all.
I work with kids and so often they tell me they want to “stop getting mad.” Obviously, that’s not possible. All we can do is learn to let out our anger in safe ways. I talk to kids about learning to “catch” the anger and deal with it before it gets out of control.
I have used that exact emotions wheel with adolescent clients and I love it. I also loved your pooping metaphor! 😂
I grew up in church and had some good people around me (thankfully). The majority of our church was on the same track as Girl Defined, but I remember once someone brought up the "we are made in God's image" thing in a different way - there are biblical examples of Jesus getting like viscerally angry, God is regularly referred to as a "jealous God", Jesus wept and was scared and was literally asking for any other way to "save us" than to be crucified bc he was so terrified. According to the bible God literally flooded the entire earth bc he was over the bullshit so the idea of controlling emotions to that extent and not having these kinds of episodes is...... not biblical lol
Nice! I love this!
This is where I suffer the greatest trauma from my fundie upbringing. The idea that I had to constantly be policing my thoughts and emotions (and enforced through verbal and physical abuse by my father if I was showing that I wasn't controlling them) from my earliest years - just as soon as I could speak, is so entrenched in my brain that every time an emotion even starts to manifest, my thoughts immediately take over and cuts it off. That sort of hyper vigilance has put me into such a perpetual state of anxiety that even though I know how harmful it is to bottle up my emotions and how much I yearn to have deep emotions, I'm never able to relax enough to release them from that iron prison. Please love yourself enough and relax yourself enough to let your emotions move through you! You don't have to act on them, but you need to feel them. Emotions are central to the human experience. Don't ever let anyone convince you that cold hard unfeeling logic is superior to emotions. Emotions are life. Even when trying to persuade someone, cold indifferent facts are never enough to get someone to change their mind or agree with you -- it's the emotions as expressed through those facts and ideas that persuade. Scholarly debate is dusty and boring, impassioned fiery speeches and heartbreaking confessions are deeply moving.
Speaking out on this subject specifically is so important!
In other video Bethany said straight up that “anxiety is a sin” Absolutely appalling!
These woman are 💯 contributing to the abuses of women! So toxic and so dangerous! 😡
It makes me sad that out of all possible examples, they picked out a situation of them having 'crazy emotions' when they literally just showed empathy. As a very sensitive person myself this is quite insulting and if anything we need *more* empathy in this world, not any less.
I totally relate religiously to Mickey’s groans of frustration in the beginning of the video. 😅😅
Thank you very much for these videos on toxic christianity topics! I've been a catholic until 17 yo, now it's been almost 4 years from moment I left church. This way of thinking was soo deeply indoctrinated in my mind, that I still find it hard to find new, healing way of thinking on many things. Your videos help me to understand how this toxic way of thinking affects people and look on it in other way. Very empowering to me! (I'm not fluent in english, hope I wrote everything right xdd)
Your commentary on emotions and their necessity was something I needed to hear today.
I really hope no innocent child/teenager with abusive parents watches their video and then starts thinking that maybe it's their fault that they see their parents so poorly. These two infuriate me.
I was gaslighted for years by my church regarding my anxiety and depression. Therapy and meds saved my life
I’m so sorry-as a Christian with anxiety and depression too breaks my heart.
As someone trained in CBT, these 2 are an example of why a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing! What they are advocating is the absolute opposite of what I would advocate. Thought suppression is massively unhelpful, and the more you try not to think of something the more you will think of it.