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Elite:Dangerous. Dirty Drives vs Clean Drives. Drag Drives vs Drive Distributors
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- Опубликовано: 11 авг 2018
- Wanted to see if there is a single reason to choose clean drives over dirty drives for my combat Fer-de-Lance and which special effect to choose - drag drives or drive distributors. I did acceleration and deceleration test as well as compared data available at outfitting screen and conclusion is simple - if you want speed and agility then in this game there is really only one option - dirty drives with drag drives, that is all that you need to know, sadly.
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Crystal clear and well backed up. Thanks. Only exception to your conclusion might be reg enhanced performing small thrusters.
Drive Distributor on small ships that you cannot oufit without going way over minimal mass and thus losing a lot of optimal multiplier. Distributor raises minimum mass and you retain much more speed in particular cases. On perfomance drives especially, going over minimum mass loses a lot of speed quickly.
I run clean drives on everything that isn't built for combat. The lower heat signature makes a difference, I like stealth. Some builds, Drive Distributors won't do anything because of where the multiplier falls. So I sometimes add thermal spread to the clean drives. There's more to a ship than just top speed.
I like Clean drives even for some combat builts, because they allow slightly higher total mass as well as slightly more weapon heat output. So I gain Punch in exchange for Agility, which can save my day
the problem is that elite only has 1 variable for speed, acceleration and agility and thats the multiplier. So the one that gives the highest multiplier wins the performance-game.
I dont use dirty drags on all my ships, though. For combat ships its a must but for other ships the decreased thermal load of clean drives can be pretty neat too and a slightly slower turnrate doesnt need to bother you.
I agree that it would be very nice if they changed the mechanics so there would be multiple variables for topspeed, burstspeed, acceleration, turnrate, etc. but that wont happen since that would mean a lot of reengineering thrusters and that would piss off many many ppl.
No, they dont kare about pissing off anyone. It wont happen because it's extra work, even without testing. And without testing it would likely cause several bugs.Fixing them and/or testing before is even more work. For no extra income.
Drive Distributors are ONLY useful in situations where your ship's tonnage is above its thrusters' Optimal Mass, which is usually not going to happen in a typical Fer-De-Lance, and only really happens with specialized builds and/or ships that are weighed down by a lot of cargo.
Drive Distributors CAN help on combat ships that use Enhanced Performance Thrusters, which can only be equipped on Small ships with grade 2/3 Thrusters. EPTs can increase performance by a LOT, but also vastly lower the Optimal Mass of the ship, making every ounce of weight a potential performance gain. Drive Distros increase your thrusters' optimal mass, which means you can either carry slightly more stuff before you start to feel it, OR you just get a performance boost at all times because you're above the cutoff anyway. Once your ship is lighter than the Optimal Mass, you get no performance gain at all from increasing the Optimal Mass any further, which is when Drag Drives is better.
Obviously, Clean Drives vs Dirty Drives is always going to give a performance edge to Dirty. Clean Drives are only really for if you're running a hot build that overheats while boosting passively, which the Mamba might actually have trouble with.
Thanks for this explanation. But may I add that Clean drives also affect optimal mass, so they might open up options where this is crucial and your build is a close call, other than simply heat issues?
I'd like to see if drive distributors help with drift in larger ships like the cutter.
Drive Distros only help if your ship is heavier than its thrusters' optimal mass. Once you're lighter than that number, you gain no performance by increasing it.
I would love to know this as well. Sadly none of the youtube content creators cover this, they all simply focus on speed or acceleration.
My FAS ends up drifting when turning more than about 90 degrees while at speed, resulting in it actually decelerating while it tries to adjust to the new heading - almost coming to a standstill in the process.
Drive distributors are only good for very low-mass ships, like
@@paavobergmann4920 why is that?
There is a difference that is felt only after a long time playing.
Dirty drag does exactally what it says. It has more heat, and drags more force.
Clean+Drive dist on your medium ships will have a slower top-speed. But:
-Doesn't drag as much, so you can change vectors on FA On or Off faster than Dirty/Drag
It's noticable on Ships that dont drag as much as the FDL, such as the Chieftain
Thanks for do the hard work and testing. Sometimes if you change modules on a ship you can really kill your pitch/yaw thruster sweet spot.
If clean drives were lighter or took less power they could win a place by either helping jumprange or powerplant load.
One year later... For what it’s worth: it is still valid. Nothing beats DD, drag drives. Still, Ive got a xeno chieftain with clean drives. Coz you can boost and stay below 20 degrees heat - while orbiting in assist off and thermal vent lasers around the Thatgoid, and dodge its ray, missiles, etc. Died more than once doing that, not sure it is worth the loss of precious 50m/s. But fun.
Drive Distributors do give better top speed with Dirty Drive tuning on lightweight builds - I use that combo on my iCourier with performance enhanced thrusters.
I have a Courier with enhanced thrusters and Drive Distributors, too, but I chose Clean Drives, because of the slightly higher Optimal mass. That allowed me to armor my power plant instead of overcharging it, to save on heat for 3 PA´s without sacrificing propulsion efficiency, and still be able to beef up a shield booster a little. The chance to have a slightly higher practical fire rate is in this case worth more to me than the little sacrifice in agility or top speed. The big game I am going for won´t catch me anyway.
IF you test on an FDL, the answer is pretty much obvious.
But
That doesn´t need to be the case for all ships or builds.
Clean Drives run a little cooler, and don´t cut down on optimal mass so much, so it depends. I like them for some cases, e.g. a specially tailored combat-Courier.
Raw numbers don´t tell all about ED ships performance, because they are not readily comparable. Total mass of your ship plays a HUGE role for performance, depending on your individual outfit, and you can change that a LOT with A vs D class modules, engineering options, more or less armor, etc.
Especially the ratio between optimal mass and actual mass is crucial for all modules that have these stats (FSD, Shield generator, Thrusters), because the response curve, is, well, a curve. it´s not linear, and it changes not only position on the mass-performance diagram depending on outfitting options, it also changes shape.
So on a given ship, if Clean or Dirty Drives are "better" may in some cases depend on wether you fit light or heavy shield boosters.
You can play around on Coriolis ( be sure to open the "Profiles" tab at the bottom!) to get a better picture, but be sure to try ships of vastly different hull mass to see where a given upgrade shines, and where it doesn´t.
they need to up the heat out put of dirty drives under boost i think
Thanks. Nice job. A couple comments...1). I thought drive distributors were supposed to hold on to more speed and maneuvering as hull mass increased (full vs empty Anaconda or Cutter)...2). To assess drive heat efficiency, I think one needs to keep the vents closed (silent running)...I’ve been thinking of doing this test for a long time. You inspired me to finally do it. Off to engineer 4 8A thrusters for the Cutter to see how cargo impacts the results.
i have silent run tests...made 2 videos recently
Kornelius - Yes, I saw them. Also very good. I appreciate the testing you do. Very helpful. Still have to try myself. Sometimes that’s the only thing pulling me back to the game. :-)
Drive Distributors are pretty useless on heavy ships, afaik.
I've got a kitted out Asp-X With Clean Drives -Stripped Down. :P Keeps me from overheating with my 5A scoop, and I get more jump range. I tried Dirty Drives, but she starts to overheat a bit on the big stars.
Before you engineer any ship, one must decied are they going to be up against human's or NPC's with the particular ship they are going to engineer. One can engineer for NPC's a "GOD" ship. But using that same ship envolving human's, will cause you to go to the re-buy screen more often than not. As well as engineering for human's and going up against elite NPC'S, will cause you to go to the re-buy screen, more often than not.
Thus the majority of experienced player's will have two engineered differently exact same ship's. Though I've in all of my more than 7,000 hour's spread out over the past 8 to 9 year's. Have on occasion, accidently reloaded into open, It's was only until I came to realize at some point, I was in open and immediately, reloaded into solo. NONE of my ship's have ever been engineered to handle human's, only NPC'S.
Once one has deceided on either human or NPC, the next question is the loadout for extremely long range exporing, the shorter planet exploring, combat, mining, all of which cause's one's load out on the same ship to be engineered not to mention size of modual's.
Thus there is "NO" perfect loadout for a ship, which mode are you in, which mode are you role playing, are you after money, material's, both. Lot's of deciesion's for a nood. Doing it wrong, can and will cause considerably more "GRINDING" for the various material's, trip's to the tech broker's, and then back to the various engineer's. The "GRIND" is real, embrase it or your end game will come sooner rather than later.
Clean drives are perfect for exploration. You can literally start spooling FSD as soon as it exits cooldown, while still scooping the fuel at the star. They build significantly less heat even compared to un-engineered drives. And comparing to dirty drives it like earth and sky.
And they are also good for high heat-build outfits. Like full railgun (even more for gauss) guns setups.
My main reason for chosing clean drive over dirty was that it seemed better at heat management and power. where as the dirty drive had higher results but I didnt like the overall sacrifices to get it .
Yes! Courier with triple 2C-Plasma Accelerators! Glorious, I love it!
Your conclusion is erroneous because it is based a a false premise. It's like saying a parachute is just as safe backpack when jumping out of a plane when the plane is three feet off the ground. That's not how you use a parachute nor a backpack since all context is out the window. The benefit of a clean drive is to keep heat at a minimum but only sacrificing a small amount of speed. This is very useful when using a ship that is not very heat efficient or using weapons that generate too much heat like PA's or rail guns. So unless you like seeing the fourth of july in your cockpit every time you press a trigger, clean drives a always a viable option.
Clean drives also have higher optimal mass by a percentage, so this might affect outfitting options a lot.
What about a T-10 hull tank? or full cargo holds? on coriolis the profiles seem to be unaffected by cargo. -- Also dont different ships have different heat exhaust coefficents?
GOATS
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LOVE IT!
What about combat situations? Does dirty drives fry ur ship while using weapons that creates reasonable amount of heat?
if you want to see difference in heat check my silent running videos.
God damn it I can't understand a word he is saying it's the first time I have heard an accent like his yes it's a cool accent but I need subtitles
Clearly English isn't his native language...
for small ships dirty drives with drive distributor is better. I think it was everything that has smaller than size 5 thrusters should use drive distributor
PasteteDoeniel it's not only about small ships, it's about being close to minimum mass. Drive distributor is better for super-lightweight small ships, like 67t 800m/s courier
Yeah... It's good for racing or some weird super-light builds.
I always thought clean drives were for higher integrity for very long exploration trips for smaller ships without AFT. I just assumed that and have never really looked into it. Thanks for the video.
Was hoping to see you boost, mainly because I was curious about boost heat difference.
Dirty drag will generate much more heat for sure... 10~20% difference I assume.
No onetalks thermal problems? For example in ax ship maybe clean drives are better. For fast but still explorers or smughlers too.
Also outfit: Clean drives allow more follow-up shots with PAs on a courier, plus the have slightly higher optimal mass, which might allow different module/engineering optimisation options.
It´s specific test like this, turned into general answers, that feed serious misconceptions in the community on the use or usefulness of upgrade options.
What this test tells us, is, that there is no big deal on this FDL-build, so the materials should maybe be spent on something else entirely.
The type ten deffender is faster with clean drives form what i have experienced but maneuverability suffered.
Drive distributor is only better for enhanced performance thrusters. Class 2 and 3 only available from engineer. For exemple for a super fast eagle or courier. The improvement is massive in this case, but other way useless.
Not exactly :
"If you have Enhanced Performance Thrusters and your laden mass is between 64T and 120T (for class 3) or 45T and 76T (for class 2) then you should get Drive Distributors. In all other cases you should get Drag Drives."
forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=405552
Yes you are right, I was too lazy to find these numbers, thx.
so basically there is barely any difference between any of them?
there is, it just doesn´t show in this test setup.
The picture varies a lot with total mass, and with the total mass - optimal mass ratio, that plays a HUGE role in this case, in addition to whether the heat difference matters for what you want to do.
it doesn´t show on a straight run in the already hot-running FDL (which is far too havy for this comparison anyway, Drags and Ditributors differ between light and heavy ships in what they achieve), but take a light ship,
what do i put on an exploration ship?
Clean drives, to have less heat :)
as little as possible. You want range, and mass kills range.
Yamiks you didn't test the stopping soeed while at the sane speed to begin with so like a lot of this testing it wasn't well done to be honest
This is kinda pointless without boost.