@@Nathan-qt2zi Yes just like the first WRX , many crashed as when you hit the limit things go bad very quickly due to lack of driver skill. More GR's will end up crashed.
Plus apex not claiming doesn’t stop the possibility of insurance companies talking off the track from the policy. If lots of others claim it could happened to apex’s policy anyway.
But the customer pays so no need to claim insurance, really shouldn't have taken more than 30 seconds of video, customer has to pay, insurance is for something totally unforeseen
@@johnycarrera insurance is for when you damage things that are not cars that are easily repaired, i think its for "human" damage than quickly can cost several hundred thousands / millions. besides that you need it to be insured. to claim some lower value damages wouldnt even be profitable i think due to a rise in your insurance cost. if you have that many cars that can be quite some money besides the chance they dont wanna insure you anymore.
Had a „minor“ accident on the Nordschleife at Wehrseifen corner. Insurance company did not want to pay. Brought them to court and after 4 years court decided in my favor. Costs - 28,000 EUR which insurer covered following court order...
@@billigerfusel on a Touristenfahrt it is not a race track but a private toll road. On a track day it is a race track. However, they lost because their "race track" clause was deemed vague and not specific enough.
I heard a tale of a guy in the military who got billed for his carpet when he left. He thought this was a scam that the military does to everyone, without ever replacing the carpet. So he got a knife and cut a big square out the middle of the carpet and took it with him. When the military went crazy, he just replied “I’ve paid for it and you’re replacing it, right”?
AWD cars are very very fun, but you need to know how to drive them. They also give drivers a lot of confidence because the grip levels are so high, even if the driver is not really capable of dealing with something if anything surprising happens
What I love is that you are the first guys I have seen use the car properly. Using it, doing mistakes like mishift & going into the barrier thanks to panick all in a short life. I love it. It's almost like movie series on Netflix & Amazon Prime.
Wow. I absolutely love Robert's entire speech about driving dynamics. Way too many people talk so much about stabbing grabbing and jabbing inputs abruptly. Yes we often want to apply inputs quickly, but always smooth! And it's exactly for that reason. Letting tires + suspension compliant components adapt to the loading we are trying to apply through the car. Bravo, Robert!
Popcorn at the ready... The whole clutch in thing... I did a track day in a Boxster 2.7 with my friend a few years ago, and I noticed he was coasting into hairpin corners with his foot on the clutch, and releasing the clutch to exit, unsettling the car at both entry and exit. I pointed it out to him, and after that it was smooth in & out of the corners. As good and intuitive as the Yaris is, it's ultimately only as good as the nut behind the wheel ;-) Nice vlog Misha.
My girlfriend does that to our Boxter 2.9 when going around corners which upsets me every time… She is not willing to learn how to properly drive a sportscar…
Having driven manual cars for over 30 years (and 14 years of awd car ownership), you learn not to brake hard in corners or change gears in corners very early on 😁
@@tonyb1223 That's right. In an unexpected/dangerous situation it's still clever to break in corners, if you have ESP on and not being afraid that the car gets unstable.
@@mgcharoudinAnd what if someone doesn't really know how to drive an auto? I have hit the brake pedal (bc it's so damn big) while pushing the imaginary clutch when coming to a stop. Super, bit muscle memory. I also had the rear end break loose in heavy rain when the car shifted gears too wildly. Not much to do to prevent this I guess. All in all, I think it's best to drive something you know well.
As always guys, your honesty, integrity, transparency and business credibility continues to support your value in the industry and Ring Advocates. All the best.
I have had mine for a week now and 300miles.... Like all cars seat time is key.... 4 wheel drive is a new thing to learn... A friend left his 997 4S in a field in Wales... leaving the road at around 100mph... 4 wheel drive didnt help with phyisics... but it did with confidence... It is good to see this it just co firms that i will take my time!!😁
You are very fair with clients who damage the rental cars. In fact more than fair. Much credit to Apex and good to clear up all the mis'information put around about crash costs.
Thanks for covering a necessary but underdiscussed topic for anyone visiting the 'ring. I think people should always be empowered with information about their risk so they can mitigate it, deal with it, or walk away from it as they see fit. A fun, reasonably affordable trip to the 'ring can go very bad and very expensive very quickly. You're going to want some peace of mind when you're out there so you can have the most fun and least stress possible. Thanks Misha and Robert! 👍
@11:00 OHHHHH SNAP!!!! Robert throwing some shade at Misha 😂 "whether it be $2000 on a GT86 that rubs a barrier" (OG subs will know why this is funny) 😂 PS: Robert is a good dude for real... hats off to him 🤘
@@buildanddrive Oh man, that small amount of air unsettled the car quite a bit. Hilarious reference now that I get it. Thanks for letting me know! I appreciate it.
Very interesting infos, we all heard of those Nürburgring myths about costs and crashes... I don't understand why people spread those rumors. Sad to see the Yaris in such a state, and as Robert said : AWD + Manual is a recipe for disaster, inspires too much confidence and requires a lot more skill to drive properly than people realize. It has always been the problem with the GT-R, "they drive themselves" and people end up crashing stupidly, and they aren't even manual ! It would be a bummer to see it go from the rental fleet, but IMO it's only a matter of time before it has a worse crash that might end up totalling it. It's an homologation special, a rally version of a small hatchback, it needs some skills to be driven on a track, those that arguably some people renting it might not have. And I'm here staring at the little 106 in the back the entire video, "that looks like a blast to drive".
This is how u know the cars at apex get pushed to the absolute limits to the point they break or crash. keep it up misha and the apex team, u all make my day
Not sure what your thoughts were on the Yaris modifications as I’ve not seen the video, but just from seeing the suspension and tyres in this video, it looks like it’s set up for ultimate grip? I would think it would be better to set up for progressive grip loss rather than ultimate grip, large tyre sidewalls, softer roll, squat and dive stiffness etc, anything to prevent rapid changes in tyre contact load, slower changes are easier for a novice to react to
The problem with rental cars on the ring imho is not 4wd, 2wd, manual or auto per sé. The problem is you need to familiarize yourself with a car first. When I get a new company car, every 4 years at least (with much lower HP even compared to APEX cars ) , the first couple of weeks I drive totally different, compared to the previous company car. ( even on public road ) After all the manuals and automatic gearboxes I've had, I still find myself to be more in control of the car with a manual ( even prefer no rev match if the car has one, I prefer to do it myself ) Renting an unknown, relatively high HP car, on a race track and searching the grip limits during first few laps is always going to be more dangerous. ( and I'm not even talking about the ring's elevations for example, in Flanders and Holland, all roads are more or less flat. Driving in the mountains or the ring is a totally different game due to the weight balance )
Unfortunate this happened to the Yaris, it's one of my favorite cars in the rental fleet and I would hate to see it go and not be used as a rental anymore. Maybe it's an idea to only let people drive that are "qualified" but that would be difficult to judge I guess or mandatory instructor if you want to take it out for a lap
Have Robert or Misha ever made a video focusing on what it takes to rent a car on the 'ring? In other words, Apex fleet cars are rentals, but surely there must be a universe of difference between renting a car from the airport and renting a car on a public race course. I would like to at least be taxied for a lap around the 'ring if I ever vacation in Germany- if for no better reason than to scare the shit out of my wife. To be behind the wheel doing it would be bliss. But seriously, Nürburgring rentals are far removed from amusement park rides and as a foreigner I would be extremely interested in the unvarnished truth.
Tell Robert to consider the updated i30n DCT. Ticks both boxes, auto and 2wd. Plus it's a fantastic track worthy hot hatch. I'll rent one if us Aussie's can travel internationally again.
I feel like switchable AWD cars are the ones to go for. Like in AMGs & BMW M, you can switch from 4WD to 2WD. It's the same for M3 & M4 Xdrive. Would love to see you & Robert thoughts on that AWD system when you get the M3 Xdrive for a few days.
Every drive layout and chassis layout will lose in a different manor and require a different technique for recovery. As the owner of a AWD track car I can agree they will be going faster when they get out of shape and can be harder to recover.
4WD amazing in the right hands, awesome in the wet, but if you don't know how to use it it will bite you in the backside like a starving guard dog seems a lot of these are getting mis-shifts take it its a short shifter and people are messing up the H-patterns getting 1st instead of 3rd etc etc
Yeah both of my nephews want to get behind the wheel of my GR Yaris & I've let them drive all kinds of cars, but I'm very hesitant to let them near it without me being there, Rj in Oz
If you have hundreds of thousands of laps w people driving your cars a file of crashes could still be less than a very small fraction of a percent but at the same time be a substantial file. If we had 10 laps and a substantial list I’d be worried. Think then type Kurt;-)
Poor little Yaris GR. Centrifugal force disrupted as clutch went in and out equals lost traction, especially going into a corner loaded. I’m glad to hear the driver was uninjured and the car got off the track under its own steam👍. Top content
The more I watch your videos the more I’m thinking about booking some tuition with you guys when I come to Nürburgring in September. Keep up the great content
As did I. Tuition makes you sit completely different behind the wheel. You’ll decide the pace, and they’ll control it for you. It’s amazing to see what both car and driver(you) are capable of. Finding out in a safe environment. Enjoy it man!
I feel like an agreement document/Q&A should be required showing you are a proficient driver and have experience driving a manual on track prior to being allowed to drive this car and manuals in general on the Nurburgring. Would be a shame all manuals aren't usable anymore because a few lack the skill/competence to actually drive these cars with pace.
@@adogmcdizzle There is being able to "drive manuals" without stalling or blowing up the engine/transmission, then there is understanding how and when to shift when driving on the edge. Most drivers can't handle going around corners properly, never mind anything else.
You forget to mention one thing, what if he had touched the Porsche Gt3? Yeah you have to pay for it, just as you would on the public road. BUT, the insurance ain't gonna cover it in most country's.. Thats one thing most people don't know/forget that "if" you cause a accident, you're the one paying it all
i work for toyota in zeebrugge. most of the cars we process are for germany so it's possible i've seen the yaris before delivery. for the parts it's the same for us . only parts we need daily are easy to get.
Gr Yaris is my first 4wd sports car Coming from Pure FR back ground (Caterham) I found Gr Yaris is pretty easy to drive at limit Although it will still snap at high speed Made it challenging for people without experience
Bought a gr yaris as soon as it came out,im 19 and never had a crash/misshift issue,and i track the car A LOT(every week since i bough it),the issue is not beeing young,the issue is not knowing the limits of you and the car.
I remeber when i was little kid 10 years ago early wrx subarus were dirt cheap here in newzealand. As a result alot of young drivers, some still in high school were buying them. Safe to say a lot of them ended up on their roofs in culverts or smashed in banks ect
My family is in the tunnel car wash industry and experiences issues similar to Apex’s. A few customers think that the owners are making money by charging them repair damages for the car wash equipment caused by the customers poor driving/negligence. Since the US is such a customer service based country, some fail to accept responsibility for their actions.
Sorry to hear. Is it just the track where these crash a lot? Not sure but I suspect the limits are more than enough for the road. Wondering if these will be expensive to insure for everyday driving?
We run a Peugeot 208 GTi on 300bhp for the last two years mechanical wise it's not missed a beat and we also have an Mx5 I'd definitely suggest a 208gti for a track rental car. it will make you money be reliable be fast nimble and fun it's a miniature Mégane the chassis is brilliant.
The seat is probably extremely high because it has to be somewhat level with the airbags. And making a complete new dash with new airbags would cost millions
Relieved that the damage is not structural and glad no one was hurt. Is a shame that the driver panicked when being overtaken, perhaps you could put perspective inexperienced rental customers into a simulator to see how they react, before letting them on track in your cars? It’s true what people say about a car’s on limit handling, the higher the grip levels the more suddenly and forcefully they let go...
The way brünnchen goes down and tries to pull you off the line is very hard to balance in a push lap expecially for a normal person. Slope variations even on a public road can be hard to manage
Regarding the Yaris you guys have there, wether or not to keep it in the rental fleet. As you know I am following your channel as a tech petrol head, and your channel is absurdly informative, for me especially on a technical side (the M3/4 walkdowns paying attention to all details, bespoke content for me). You guys could in fact be sitting on top of a tuning brand, not just car rental. If you turn up the game into Apex Racing or something, you could very well be selling Apex Racing approved setups (including installing them) or even offer tuning sessions combined with laps. I see a business model here :). You could use the Yaris for starters I guess and indeed drive it like you stole it, providing the feedback here to your huge fanbase.
I may be biased because I've driven manuals all my life (minus the first 18, that is), but how is "manual" such a big deal? That said, I don't have any experience with flappy paddles or sequencial shifters, because the cars that come with them are out of my (financial) league, and for that reason, I wouldn't want to rent them for fear of making a (probably) costly mistake.
More chance of an unexperienced driver upsetting the balance of the car due to a jerky gear change. I thought they covered that point quite well in the video... :)
You can't really do anything wrong with a flappy paddle gearbox in regard of misshifting, or as said in this video, pushing the clutch in at the wrong time, and stuff like that.
On the public road you have all the time in the world for shifting, pushing in the clutch does no harm and mis-shifting 4th to 3rd at 100kph does no damage either. Driving on the Nordschleife is something completely different, you are unter quite a lot of stress as a beginner and you need to know where you can shift without unsettling the car. If you are unfamiliar with the gearbox, a mis-shift might happen, and that is deadly at 6000 rpm.
Have you ever considered a graduation program for the cars? My local race school makes you start small and work your way up to the higher level cars. I know it's nice to be able to offer any car someone wants but i think sometimes it might be best for everyone involved if you take small steps towards more extreme vehicles.
It’s not about the confidence that a AWD car gives you, it’s the way the car reacts to inputs that put people in dangerous situations. For example to grab a slide if you act like you are on a RWD and keep the opposite lock the car will snap hard in the direction of the steering. You need to catch it and point it right away. Other thing quite particular on AWD cars is that lifting on corners means loosing the rear. It can be funny and helpful but can also be a proper scare to someone not used to it. 90% of the evos I know crashed in one of those situations.
I really hope the yaris stays in the fleet, I'm looking forward to booking it sometime. Perhaps you could consider only renting it out if you've had some instruction in it. Shit still happens though.
I like how pancake is just strolling around in the background 🤩
3 года назад
I'm getting my first covid shot in one week, the second one a few weeks after. So IF the borders open and I don't have to go into 10 days of quarantine, it's the Ring next!! I just bought a bright orange 2018 Polo 1.0 95 HP, R-line, lowered with H&R, would be AWESOME to finally have a chance to lap the legend of legendary circuits :-D It's 2-3 days of driving one way though, from just north of Oslo, Norway...
I spinned mine. I was tired and my head was only 90%at driving. The next corner didnt look to sharp at first but something was off I hit the brakes fully then released a bit to start stearing. The corner closed to the end and i was to fast for this. Understeering became too much i pulled the handbrake(the handbrake was bearly working in my old fwd car) I pulled it too late too long and too hard. The car startet spinning 270° including the corner and luckly i stayed on the road. Happy end
It seems the yaris is a constant source of drama. On the other hand.....has had alot of great content created around it ...hrrrmmm🤔 risk/reward??..anyway.. Thanks for sharing this stuff. 🤘😎
The issue is the GR is literally driveable overconfidence, most people think "small 3 cylinder AWD race car, This is gonna be the easiest thing ever to push to the limit"
wow "compression lockup" (although its probably actually didnt lock up) in an awd car, at least its refreshing to know that this is a new car that doesnt drive for you.
Guys I really really hope i can make it to Apex this year. from Ireland its a bit harder now because of brexit. And looks like i wont get my Panamera until 2022. My Beautiful wife Dina has her build slot for August on her Macan GTS and Dina is hoping to go on a road trip. I am hoping we get to Apex this year.
Very interesting what Robert says about manual/4wd for track rental (and events proving him right). Even though I've only been on track once in my life, about 20 minutes in a Ferrari 360 with flappy paddles, and I left it in 4th the whole way round as I was so intent on getting the right lines/braking points/apexes in the (wet) corners, no time to think about gears! Not as easy as it looks in videos........and that track only had about 15 corners, not 170.
Are you used to driving manual? For me driving automatic is more difficult, bc I am not used to it. You also have less control. Even if you can select the gears. One day, I was in an automatic BMW, which I had put in manual. I accelerated from a stoplight in heavy rain. When I changed gear, the rear end broke loose (in a true manual, you have control with clutch and throttle, in this case the car decides). I was able to save it, but I still remember it.
@@michiel5160 yep never driven an auto on the road ever. Only briefly for about 20 yards in a car park to move it. Suppose pretty soon with electric cars all will be autos.
@@supersecularboypants he’s referring to the windshield fluid tank. You start doing that and eventually you have an alloy mesh everywhere piece of shit car....
@@supersecularboypants he’s referring to the windshield fluid tank. You start doing that and eventually you have an alloy mesh everywhere piece of shit car....
I do too. The thought of not being able to drive a manual would take away a lot of fun for me. If the accident cost was covered then it’s just downtime for awhile. It’s a nice option to have.
@@wallymcguire2033 I truly believe that having fun of managing 3 pedals and shifter is better than being faster ergo I really can slow down, not overdrive the car, concentrate on inputs and controls and enjoy "slow" drive.
@@tomasz899 - Agree 100%. I have an older 911 with a six speed that is a lot of fun to drive. I test drove a new 911 with a PDK on the street last summer and although it was technically great, it just wasn’t fun and engaging the way my old one is. On the road, it was kind of boring to drive. It was a beast on a tight track where the extra workload of shifting would have been unnecessary overhead and slowed me down. But for sport driving on the road or on a longer, more open track like the ‘Ring, I’ll take a 6 speed 10 out of 10 times for the fun factor.
Would be sad if you could not rent this one anymore but it's really understandable. It's hard to know if someone who books it has the experience to drive it without damaging it.
Pancake is really cute. Oh right we are here for the Yaris.
Are we tho?
@@iebe4388 Well, I am. :)
TG it's not a meowing furball . BUT now you have to teach it a neat trick like do a sub 90 lap and MAYbe it will redeem 15.000€ in youtube rev.
simp
@@user-jk7yz3xs8z He called a dog cute, you have some explaining to do now
Remember: Clutch kick is one of the main methods to initiate a drift. 😉
@Lukasz I know that you knew that already, didn't you? 😁
@Lukasz Then you're officially allowed to ignore my comments. 👍🏻
Man has the gr Yaris has been through wars
As it should.
Maybe it's time for retirement for the old girl.😂😂
cursed?
@@Dave-gl6jb but she a bruiser tho, I'm sure she has more in the tank lol
Not as much as my 400k km E46 haha
This is turning into a really unlucky car
It's because it gives you so much confidence and think you have more skill that you don't have
@@Nathan-qt2zi Yes just like the first WRX , many crashed as when you hit the limit things go bad very quickly due to lack of driver skill. More GR's will end up crashed.
Not relevant for this situation, but because it's affordable alot of others will crash indeed.
how do you have a nurburgring by your name thats mad that
I believe, besides the all-wheel drive and the manual transmission, the short wheelbase is another significant risk factor to the GR Yaris' fate.
Robert is so down to earth. It's nice to see you guys sharing the behind the scenes stuff and being honest with everyone.
The big winners are the insurance companies. Selling you a product you are scared to actually use.
Plus apex not claiming doesn’t stop the possibility of insurance companies talking off the track from the policy. If lots of others claim it could happened to apex’s policy anyway.
Not really. It is not economic for most insurance companies to offer Ring insurance due to the cost and frequency of crashes
But the customer pays so no need to claim insurance, really shouldn't have taken more than 30 seconds of video, customer has to pay, insurance is for something totally unforeseen
I'd say insurance is to cover 3rd party liabilities which in a severe accident could be 6 figures
@@johnycarrera insurance is for when you damage things that are not cars that are easily repaired, i think its for "human" damage than quickly can cost several hundred thousands / millions. besides that you need it to be insured. to claim some lower value damages wouldnt even be profitable i think due to a rise in your insurance cost. if you have that many cars that can be quite some money besides the chance they dont wanna insure you anymore.
Had a „minor“ accident on the Nordschleife at Wehrseifen corner. Insurance company did not want to pay. Brought them to court and after 4 years court decided in my favor. Costs - 28,000 EUR which insurer covered following court order...
In basically all insurance contracts it states no race track use is covered. How did they lose?
@@billigerfusel on a Touristenfahrt it is not a race track but a private toll road. On a track day it is a race track.
However, they lost because their "race track" clause was deemed vague and not specific enough.
Best to check your insurance policy wording, some of them specifically exclude this road
Which insurance company are you with?
a friend of mine once hit a lamp post and had to pay several thousands to replace it, he still claims it as his own to this day
I heard a tale of a guy in the military who got billed for his carpet when he left. He thought this was a scam that the military does to everyone, without ever replacing the carpet.
So he got a knife and cut a big square out the middle of the carpet and took it with him.
When the military went crazy, he just replied “I’ve paid for it and you’re replacing it, right”?
Really enjoy when Robert speaks about Driving Dynamics. 👍
Yes, but he should be outside of the track just to watch others, not driving...
@@SamaraRing why is that ?
@@RobertMitchell just hate...
AWD cars are very very fun, but you need to know how to drive them. They also give drivers a lot of confidence because the grip levels are so high, even if the driver is not really capable of dealing with something if anything surprising happens
AWD doesn't increase grip at all. 2WD cars just use only half of their grip for acceleration.
@@Mgoblagulkablong Yeah, sorry I should have used "perceived grip" there - They also give you confidence in the corners on power.
Perfect example, r35 gtrs. Awd + heavy car = bad fimes
Deadly when they let go.
What I love is that you are the first guys I have seen use the car properly. Using it, doing mistakes like mishift & going into the barrier thanks to panick all in a short life. I love it. It's almost like movie series on Netflix & Amazon Prime.
You two work so well together .
A great video again covered everything I need to know.
Wow. I absolutely love Robert's entire speech about driving dynamics. Way too many people talk so much about stabbing grabbing and jabbing inputs abruptly. Yes we often want to apply inputs quickly, but always smooth! And it's exactly for that reason. Letting tires + suspension compliant components adapt to the loading we are trying to apply through the car. Bravo, Robert!
Popcorn at the ready...
The whole clutch in thing... I did a track day in a Boxster 2.7 with my friend a few years ago, and I noticed he was coasting into hairpin corners with his foot on the clutch, and releasing the clutch to exit, unsettling the car at both entry and exit. I pointed it out to him, and after that it was smooth in & out of the corners. As good and intuitive as the Yaris is, it's ultimately only as good as the nut behind the wheel ;-)
Nice vlog Misha.
This is my biggest fear when someone REALLY doesn't know how to drive a manual and wants one for whatever reason.
My girlfriend does that to our Boxter 2.9 when going around corners which upsets me every time…
She is not willing to learn how to properly drive a sportscar…
Having driven manual cars for over 30 years (and 14 years of awd car ownership), you learn not to brake hard in corners or change gears in corners very early on 😁
@@tonyb1223 That's right. In an unexpected/dangerous situation it's still clever to break in corners, if you have ESP on and not being afraid that the car gets unstable.
@@mgcharoudinAnd what if someone doesn't really know how to drive an auto?
I have hit the brake pedal (bc it's so damn big) while pushing the imaginary clutch when coming to a stop. Super, bit muscle memory.
I also had the rear end break loose in heavy rain when the car shifted gears too wildly. Not much to do to prevent this I guess.
All in all, I think it's best to drive something you know well.
As always guys, your honesty, integrity, transparency and business credibility continues to support your value in the industry and Ring Advocates.
All the best.
I have had mine for a week now and 300miles....
Like all cars seat time is key.... 4 wheel drive is a new thing to learn...
A friend left his 997 4S in a field in Wales... leaving the road at around 100mph... 4 wheel drive didnt help with phyisics... but it did with confidence...
It is good to see this it just co firms that i will take my time!!😁
You are very fair with clients who damage the rental cars. In fact more than fair. Much credit to Apex and good to clear up all the mis'information put around about crash costs.
It always amazes me how people think any track or road you cause damage you won't need to pay for it unless its the nurburgring, crazy myth
I know right!
everyone hopes that the insurance will cover all repair costs
@@AleksandrHalas with all.. someone somewhere picks up the bill. In the uk you crash at Silverstone etc they aren't letting you out without a bill
I think this plastic cone at Bilster Berg that I ran over for 154€ was a bargain...
@@Danksta911 Wow. Was that thing silver plated?
Thanks for covering a necessary but underdiscussed topic for anyone visiting the 'ring. I think people should always be empowered with information about their risk so they can mitigate it, deal with it, or walk away from it as they see fit. A fun, reasonably affordable trip to the 'ring can go very bad and very expensive very quickly. You're going to want some peace of mind when you're out there so you can have the most fun and least stress possible. Thanks Misha and Robert! 👍
So one year to fix up my permits, Robert's as well and a fourth makes a N24 team! George?
Do it do it do it do it do it!
Good idea.
Also maybe put your favorites playlist on private xD
@11:00 OHHHHH SNAP!!!! Robert throwing some shade at Misha 😂 "whether it be $2000 on a GT86 that rubs a barrier" (OG subs will know why this is funny) 😂 PS: Robert is a good dude for real... hats off to him 🤘
I only see Misha's videos every now and then. Do you have the story/video on this? I am curious.
@@blkhauck search gt86 crash Nurburgring and look for Misha's video
@@buildanddrive Oh man, that small amount of air unsettled the car quite a bit. Hilarious reference now that I get it. Thanks for letting me know! I appreciate it.
Very interesting infos, we all heard of those Nürburgring myths about costs and crashes... I don't understand why people spread those rumors. Sad to see the Yaris in such a state, and as Robert said : AWD + Manual is a recipe for disaster, inspires too much confidence and requires a lot more skill to drive properly than people realize. It has always been the problem with the GT-R, "they drive themselves" and people end up crashing stupidly, and they aren't even manual !
It would be a bummer to see it go from the rental fleet, but IMO it's only a matter of time before it has a worse crash that might end up totalling it. It's an homologation special, a rally version of a small hatchback, it needs some skills to be driven on a track, those that arguably some people renting it might not have.
And I'm here staring at the little 106 in the back the entire video, "that looks like a blast to drive".
This is how u know the cars at apex get pushed to the absolute limits to the point they break or crash.
keep it up misha and the apex team, u all make my day
Not sure what your thoughts were on the Yaris modifications as I’ve not seen the video, but just from seeing the suspension and tyres in this video, it looks like it’s set up for ultimate grip? I would think it would be better to set up for progressive grip loss rather than ultimate grip, large tyre sidewalls, softer roll, squat and dive stiffness etc, anything to prevent rapid changes in tyre contact load, slower changes are easier for a novice to react to
These one on one discussion / explanation vids are a favorite. It’s like we’re all chillin at Apex.
Eating rocks though..🤷♂️🐶
The Toyota bill of the engine blow was not published yet as it was promised, or I missed something?
How about that cost?
Thank you for the crash explanation. It just shows how much more control you have if the car has a manual transmission.
The problem with rental cars on the ring imho is not 4wd, 2wd, manual or auto per sé. The problem is you need to familiarize yourself with a car first. When I get a new company car, every 4 years at least (with much lower HP even compared to APEX cars ) , the first couple of weeks I drive totally different, compared to the previous company car. ( even on public road ) After all the manuals and automatic gearboxes I've had, I still find myself to be more in control of the car with a manual ( even prefer no rev match if the car has one, I prefer to do it myself ) Renting an unknown, relatively high HP car, on a race track and searching the grip limits during first few laps is always going to be more dangerous. ( and I'm not even talking about the ring's elevations for example, in Flanders and Holland, all roads are more or less flat. Driving in the mountains or the ring is a totally different game due to the weight balance )
Unfortunate this happened to the Yaris, it's one of my favorite cars in the rental fleet and I would hate to see it go and not be used as a rental anymore. Maybe it's an idea to only let people drive that are "qualified" but that would be difficult to judge I guess or mandatory instructor if you want to take it out for a lap
Have Robert or Misha ever made a video focusing on what it takes to rent a car on the 'ring? In other words, Apex fleet cars are rentals, but surely there must be a universe of difference between renting a car from the airport and renting a car on a public race course. I would like to at least be taxied for a lap around the 'ring if I ever vacation in Germany- if for no better reason than to scare the shit out of my wife. To be behind the wheel doing it would be bliss. But seriously, Nürburgring rentals are far removed from amusement park rides and as a foreigner I would be extremely interested in the unvarnished truth.
Finally !!!! 😇
Some1 honestly told about the track closure matter. Thanks to Misha , really appreciated !!!
Tell Robert to consider the updated i30n DCT. Ticks both boxes, auto and 2wd. Plus it's a fantastic track worthy hot hatch. I'll rent one if us Aussie's can travel internationally again.
I feel like switchable AWD cars are the ones to go for. Like in AMGs & BMW M, you can switch from 4WD to 2WD. It's the same for M3 & M4 Xdrive. Would love to see you & Robert thoughts on that AWD system when you get the M3 Xdrive for a few days.
possible with this one as well. Switch to 70-30 split to RWD
Just saw GR crash yesterday in my city... in 5 years there will be no GR’s in factory condition left 😐
Least they're getting driven
@@ikebuttle360 ...for a few months
I’m glad you guys explained the costs! Too often people don’t get it!👊👊👊
Thanks for the insight Messieurs Charoudin and Mitchell !
Every drive layout and chassis layout will lose in a different manor and require a different technique for recovery. As the owner of a AWD track car I can agree they will be going faster when they get out of shape and can be harder to recover.
Exactly thier is always a compromise or condition to be aware of.
4WD amazing in the right hands, awesome in the wet, but if you don't know how to use it it will bite you in the backside like a starving guard dog
seems a lot of these are getting mis-shifts take it its a short shifter and people are messing up the H-patterns getting 1st instead of 3rd etc etc
Yeah both of my nephews want to get behind the wheel of my GR Yaris & I've let them drive all kinds of cars, but I'm very hesitant to let them near it without me being there, Rj in Oz
Yeah the first few weeks of owning a GR Yaris in Aus was a little scary if you push her in a corner.
You're a cool uncle just for that. Respect.
It's funny when one says there aren't that many crashes while the other says they have a pile of damage files.
If you have hundreds of thousands of laps w people driving your cars a file of crashes could still be less than a very small fraction of a percent but at the same time be a substantial file.
If we had 10 laps and a substantial list I’d be worried.
Think then type Kurt;-)
Poor little Yaris GR. Centrifugal force disrupted as clutch went in and out equals lost traction, especially going into a corner loaded. I’m glad to hear the driver was uninjured and the car got off the track under its own steam👍. Top content
You guys are the most humble and down to earth youtuber.. Greeting from Mozambique .and technically the best ..
The more I watch your videos the more I’m thinking about booking some tuition with you guys when I come to Nürburgring in September.
Keep up the great content
Just don't fucking crash man
@@billigerfusel hence the tuition!
As did I. Tuition makes you sit completely different behind the wheel. You’ll decide the pace, and they’ll control it for you. It’s amazing to see what both car and driver(you) are capable of. Finding out in a safe environment. Enjoy it man!
I feel like an agreement document/Q&A should be required showing you are a proficient driver and have experience driving a manual on track prior to being allowed to drive this car and manuals in general on the Nurburgring. Would be a shame all manuals aren't usable anymore because a few lack the skill/competence to actually drive these cars with pace.
Everyone in Europe drives manuals
@@adogmcdizzle There is being able to "drive manuals" without stalling or blowing up the engine/transmission, then there is understanding how and when to shift when driving on the edge. Most drivers can't handle going around corners properly, never mind anything else.
just a note to say thanks for sharing your thoughts on running Apex as a business, I really enjoy the insight.
The best car video on RUclips, loads of in-depth information.
You forget to mention one thing, what if he had touched the Porsche Gt3? Yeah you have to pay for it, just as you would on the public road. BUT, the insurance ain't gonna cover it in most country's.. Thats one thing most people don't know/forget that "if" you cause a accident, you're the one paying it all
Transparency is everything here. People who rent these cars need to understand their exposure if the worst happens. READ THE EXCESS DETAILS!!
Poor old Yaris. Great vid as always Misha.
i work for toyota in zeebrugge. most of the cars we process are for germany so it's possible i've seen the yaris before delivery. for the parts it's the same for us . only parts we need daily are easy to get.
Gr Yaris is my first 4wd sports car
Coming from Pure FR back ground (Caterham)
I found Gr Yaris is pretty easy to drive at limit
Although it will still snap at high speed
Made it challenging for people without experience
Bought a gr yaris as soon as it came out,im 19 and never had a crash/misshift issue,and i track the car A LOT(every week since i bough it),the issue is not beeing young,the issue is not knowing the limits of you and the car.
Bingo! Being young doesn't make an automatic idiot. Be aware, and keep learning!
Experience comes with age, older you will have more experience. But that doesn't mean your average 50 yo has more experience than you now.
I remeber when i was little kid 10 years ago early wrx subarus were dirt cheap here in newzealand. As a result alot of young drivers, some still in high school were buying them. Safe to say a lot of them ended up on their roofs in culverts or smashed in banks ect
Hello, it’s Yaris! Misha, keep riding your bike through the parking areas. So great to see you showing off the cars. Makes me envious!
My family is in the tunnel car wash industry and experiences issues similar to Apex’s. A few customers think that the owners are making money by charging them repair damages for the car wash equipment caused by the customers poor driving/negligence. Since the US is such a customer service based country, some fail to accept responsibility for their actions.
Yep I had an accident on the freeway in California. Car broke part of the concrete barrier, cost $500 usd.
Sorry to hear. Is it just the track where these crash a lot? Not sure but I suspect the limits are more than enough for the road. Wondering if these will be expensive to insure for everyday driving?
We run a Peugeot 208 GTi on 300bhp for the last two years mechanical wise it's not missed a beat and we also have an Mx5 I'd definitely suggest a 208gti for a track rental car. it will make you money be reliable be fast nimble and fun it's a miniature Mégane the chassis is brilliant.
Manual on a car the driver is unfamiliar with is just another unforgiving complication for them in the moments that count most.
What happens when a customer buys insurance for the lap. Do you self insure or is that with a third party insurance carrier?
The seat is probably extremely high because it has to be somewhat level with the airbags. And making a complete new dash with new airbags would cost millions
Would it not be better to just have a few things spare like a front/rear bumper and left/right wing for a quicker fix?
Time for a spare GR Yaris and solid explanation, thank you for the video.
Relieved that the damage is not structural and glad no one was hurt. Is a shame that the driver panicked when being overtaken, perhaps you could put perspective inexperienced rental customers into a simulator to see how they react, before letting them on track in your cars? It’s true what people say about a car’s on limit handling, the higher the grip levels the more suddenly and forcefully they let go...
Big like for this video from a proud owner of a "Yield" sign cut down in Dubai with a Jaguar XJR 15 years ago...
The way brünnchen goes down and tries to pull you off the line is very hard to balance in a push lap expecially for a normal person. Slope variations even on a public road can be hard to manage
Omg he named his dog Pancake. Im new to this channel but im here to stay 👌
welcome
Holy shit I love this guy. So honest and nice
Regarding the Yaris you guys have there, wether or not to keep it in the rental fleet. As you know I am following your channel as a tech petrol head, and your channel is absurdly informative, for me especially on a technical side (the M3/4 walkdowns paying attention to all details, bespoke content for me). You guys could in fact be sitting on top of a tuning brand, not just car rental. If you turn up the game into Apex Racing or something, you could very well be selling Apex Racing approved setups (including installing them) or even offer tuning sessions combined with laps. I see a business model here :). You could use the Yaris for starters I guess and indeed drive it like you stole it, providing the feedback here to your huge fanbase.
I may be biased because I've driven manuals all my life (minus the first 18, that is), but how is "manual" such a big deal?
That said, I don't have any experience with flappy paddles or sequencial shifters, because the cars that come with them are out of my (financial) league, and for that reason, I wouldn't want to rent them for fear of making a (probably) costly mistake.
More chance of an unexperienced driver upsetting the balance of the car due to a jerky gear change. I thought they covered that point quite well in the video... :)
You can't really do anything wrong with a flappy paddle gearbox in regard of misshifting, or as said in this video, pushing the clutch in at the wrong time, and stuff like that.
On the public road you have all the time in the world for shifting, pushing in the clutch does no harm and mis-shifting 4th to 3rd at 100kph does no damage either.
Driving on the Nordschleife is something completely different, you are unter quite a lot of stress as a beginner and you need to know where you can shift without unsettling the car. If you are unfamiliar with the gearbox, a mis-shift might happen, and that is deadly at 6000 rpm.
Great vid Misha. Unfortunate event but like the transparency
Have you ever considered a graduation program for the cars? My local race school makes you start small and work your way up to the higher level cars. I know it's nice to be able to offer any car someone wants but i think sometimes it might be best for everyone involved if you take small steps towards more extreme vehicles.
Evening Misha and Robert thanks for the update on the Yaris, it is a tough call on wether or not to keep it as a rental.
It’s not about the confidence that a AWD car gives you, it’s the way the car reacts to inputs that put people in dangerous situations. For example to grab a slide if you act like you are on a RWD and keep the opposite lock the car will snap hard in the direction of the steering. You need to catch it and point it right away. Other thing quite particular on AWD cars is that lifting on corners means loosing the rear. It can be funny and helpful but can also be a proper scare to someone not used to it. 90% of the evos I know crashed in one of those situations.
Exactly!
So basically more like FWD?
@@michiel5160 nope
If you want to learn car control listen to this video. They are talking absolute sense. Its physics 👍🏼
You guys are so good at talking.
Maybe one of the rules for novice drivers of this car is to keep the IMT button turned on to maintain rev match?
always good seeing Robert
I really hope the yaris stays in the fleet, I'm looking forward to booking it sometime. Perhaps you could consider only renting it out if you've had some instruction in it. Shit still happens though.
I like how pancake is just strolling around in the background 🤩
I'm getting my first covid shot in one week, the second one a few weeks after. So IF the borders open and I don't have to go into 10 days of quarantine, it's the Ring next!!
I just bought a bright orange 2018 Polo 1.0 95 HP, R-line, lowered with H&R, would be AWESOME to finally have a chance to lap the legend of legendary circuits :-D
It's 2-3 days of driving one way though, from just north of Oslo, Norway...
Very informative video on the track workings and what drivetrains the company chooses and why.
You forgot to mention the track personnel that comes to a wreck, The track charges 60 Euros per person, per hour. That what it was in 2016.
as this car is a future classic using it as a ring taxi car sounds like a good move. also good youtube material generator.
I spinned mine.
I was tired and my head was only 90%at driving.
The next corner didnt look to sharp at first but something was off
I hit the brakes fully then released a bit to start stearing.
The corner closed to the end and i was to fast for this.
Understeering became too much i pulled the handbrake(the handbrake was bearly working in my old fwd car)
I pulled it too late too long and too hard.
The car startet spinning 270° including the corner and luckly i stayed on the road.
Happy end
It seems the yaris is a constant source of drama. On the other hand.....has had alot of great content created around it ...hrrrmmm🤔 risk/reward??..anyway..
Thanks for sharing this stuff. 🤘😎
Great business ethics from Robert 👍👍👌
Gr Yaris should only go out on rental with instructor for the two first laps.
The issue is the GR is literally driveable overconfidence, most people think "small 3 cylinder AWD race car, This is gonna be the easiest thing ever to push to the limit"
Nope! LOL
106 XSI casually chilling in the background
Very good ...to clear it for the people
wow "compression lockup" (although its probably actually didnt lock up) in an awd car, at least its refreshing to know that this is a new car that doesnt drive for you.
Very good explanation. Thank you
Guys I really really hope i can make it to Apex this year. from Ireland its a bit harder now because of brexit. And looks like i wont get my Panamera until 2022. My Beautiful wife Dina has her build slot for August on her Macan GTS and Dina is hoping to go on a road trip. I am hoping we get to Apex this year.
Good flexing. 👍
😂
Very interesting what Robert says about manual/4wd for track rental (and events proving him right). Even though I've only been on track once in my life, about 20 minutes in a Ferrari 360 with flappy paddles, and I left it in 4th the whole way round as I was so intent on getting the right lines/braking points/apexes in the (wet) corners, no time to think about gears! Not as easy as it looks in videos........and that track only had about 15 corners, not 170.
Are you used to driving manual?
For me driving automatic is more difficult, bc I am not used to it. You also have less control. Even if you can select the gears.
One day, I was in an automatic BMW, which I had put in manual. I accelerated from a stoplight in heavy rain. When I changed gear, the rear end broke loose (in a true manual, you have control with clutch and throttle, in this case the car decides). I was able to save it, but I still remember it.
@@michiel5160 yep never driven an auto on the road ever. Only briefly for about 20 yards in a car park to move it. Suppose pretty soon with electric cars all will be autos.
@@michiel5160fully back off throttle before shifting even in automatics, when using manual in automatic. I do this and never felt this problem.
I have never heard of the Ring charging for accidents...but I have heard there are some surprising charges for having an accident on the Autobahn. 🤔
I repair things like that for a living. Sink some alloy mesh into the plastic tab and screw through. It'll be stronger than before
What part of the vid are you talking about?
@@supersecularboypants he’s referring to the windshield fluid tank. You start doing that and eventually you have an alloy mesh everywhere piece of shit car....
@@supersecularboypants he’s referring to the windshield fluid tank. You start doing that and eventually you have an alloy mesh everywhere piece of shit car....
this isn’t some $500 shitbox.
as minor of a break that is,
you replace it because it’s the right thing to do.
MrCukydoh send the car to a Toyota near me. see who they ring lol. Have a look at through my vids you can see some of cheap cars I work on 😊
Brilliant explained car dynamics👍👍
Hi Guys, I really want to learn the Ring, is there a way that you can limit the liability with with your cars???? Great content, keep it up.
Thats why i thought having manual fast car as rental was brave idea... Still hope You will have one in Your fleet :)
I do too. The thought of not being able to drive a manual would take away a lot of fun for me. If the accident cost was covered then it’s just downtime for awhile. It’s a nice option to have.
@@wallymcguire2033
I truly believe that having fun of managing 3 pedals and shifter is better than being faster ergo I really can slow down, not overdrive the car, concentrate on inputs and controls and enjoy "slow" drive.
@@tomasz899 - Agree 100%. I have an older 911 with a six speed that is a lot of fun to drive. I test drove a new 911 with a PDK on the street last summer and although it was technically great, it just wasn’t fun and engaging the way my old one is. On the road, it was kind of boring to drive.
It was a beast on a tight track where the extra workload of shifting would have been unnecessary overhead and slowed me down.
But for sport driving on the road or on a longer, more open track like the ‘Ring, I’ll take a 6 speed 10 out of 10 times for the fun factor.
Would be sad if you could not rent this one anymore but it's really understandable. It's hard to know if someone who books it has the experience to drive it without damaging it.