LONG POST WARNING! I've been filming at the Nordschleife since 2013, and the biggest thing that I have noticed changing over the last 11 years, is the type of cars that drive during the TF. Back in 2013, at least from my perspective, there were 80 to 90% of actual "tourists" on track, driving their Peugeot 405 or Ford Mondeo etc, while only 10 to 20% of the cars on track were actual track-build cars like BMW M3 and Porsches. Seeing a Porsche 991 GT3RS on track back then, was HUGE. However if we look at what is driving on track today, it is completely the other way around: 80 to 90% of cars on track are mega fast tracktools, fully build BMW M3's and M4's, COUNTLESS Porsche 992 GT3RS's and Cayman GT4RS's. The speed has (like you mentioned) also gone up exponentionally. But (from my perspective) the respect to other drivers, and in particular the respect to slower/less experienced drivers, has gone down DRASTICALLY. Laptimes have been banned for a couple of years now, but to me it feels like this has no effect anymore since everyone is running GoPro's and still making BTG xx-minutes videos on RUclips. I believe that this is also the reason REAL tourists (who want to drive their very first lap on the Nordschleife) don't want to take the risk anymore or they are way too intimidated by the extreme speed difference. People often comment on my videos why I only show BMW and Porsches, but in reality, that's 95% of the cars on track nowadays. Last but not least, I truly believe that the ticket pricing is way off. A single lap on weekend days costs € 35,- while a season card costs € 3000,-. This might seem expensive for a season card, but the "rich guys" in the GT3RS's easily do over a 1000 laps a year, making the season card cost only € 3,- per lap. My suggestion would be to get rid of the unlimited laps on a season card, and bring it down to € 1500,- for 100 laps (or similar), that way the ones that drive the most amount of laps have to pay more (but still only € 15,- per lap) and the Nürburgring management can bring down the price for a single lap ticket to € 25,-. This is just an example that I believe will help to restore the distribution of tourists vs tracktools on track.
I've been saying this for some time now... People take Touristenfahrten as Trackdays when they are not... I think you should generally limit heavily modified vehicles to special days every 2 Weeks or so, so actual tourists can do Touristenfahrten again... wont happen of course because of money... But driving anything with a power to weight ratio of less than 0,3 Hp/t basically means you'll be bullied by the Fastest Idiots on the Ring...
"I believe that this is also the reason REAL tourists (who want to drive their very first lap on the Nordschleife) don't want to take the risk anymore" THAT'S exactly the case for me. I would love to drive one or two Laps with my Daughter in my 08/15 Family Car there. To show her that AMAZING Historic Track and Landscape. 80% of those crazy People and their maxed out Cars at TF should go for dedicated Track Days there if they want to run fast... I'm not risking her Life in TF on a sightseeing Trip there, just because some Nutjob is on a Hot Lap for stupid Internet fame.
Nurburgring stopping people from posting crash videos here on RUclips was a super big fail on their part too. Those videos sobered me and my friends up to the reality of what can happen.
They had no choice, there wasn't a big problem with people (like me) posting crash videos. The problem started when some guys (looking at you EMS) decided to post crash videos with heavy injuries or fatalities as well...
@@v4skunk739 Don't blame him? The crash footage of people getting seriously injured were sometimes online even before the driver made it to the hospital... Think about the family of those guys, not even aware of what happened and then seeing the video...
Surprised it wasn't RUclips itself playing at being net nanny. That said, I for one wouldn't be interested in actively looking for videos of real life crashes. To do so is kinda like people slowing to a crawl passing the scene of a crash not for safety but to try to get a good look. Morbid...
As a motorcyclist and car enthusiast I completely agree. I would never want to enter a track on a bike knowing vehicles could lose control and cause a horrific accident. I personally think the safest thing that could be done would be creating different classifications for track days so that at given times only a certain class is allowed on track. I don’t think that modern sports cars such as Porsche 992 GT3 or Mercedes AMG GTR should be running on track with a motorcycle or a Toyota Corolla
@@staLkerhuit goes both ways in my opinion. I am sure motorcyclists probably are more unaware on track as there is much more they are concerned about and driving in your mirror on a bike is extremely dangerous. I think my concern is just general safety and mixed vehicle “classes”, if you will, is dangerous
But it's also down to the Rider/Driver as either can be great or both having the IQ of a Toaster. As machine is no Guarantee to Capabilities!. Ive known people the only time they look in the mirror is to brush their hair! you see them with mirrors broken/pointing anywhere but where should be. I spend ages setting my mirrors up be it in truck or car so can easily spot things and have spacial awareness.
(1) wear helmets (2) wear simpson hans, (3) minimum long pants, minimum long sleeved shirts, gloves boots and gloves. (4) have 2L fire extinguisher (5) window breaker (6) minimum 4 point harness (7) car inspection before going on "track" (8) induction for first time drivers (9) minimum age limit
I do not watch your videos solely because you are a talented driver. I watch your videos, because YOU are Misha! The driver is always more important than the car. There are good drivers who are slow, and there are fast drivers who aren't good people. I heavily respect that you are a fast driver, who is a good person. I get entertainment, laughs, and knowledge from you for complete free. The least I can do is comment and like. I watched your videos before this tragic accident occurred. I have always been impressed with your respect for safety and other drivers. I honestly wish I showed the level of respect for Motorsports as you do. You are a real one Misha, stay classy! 🫡
The minimum speed is a big safety improvement. We have people riding these 50cc scooters on city streets and can't maintain speed on roadway. Some drop off to 18 mph on hills and can't go much over 30-35 mph on the flat. This creates a moving chicane.
The same argument could be made that a top speed limit needs to be in place for safety. It is a fact that the Nürburgring sees more amateurs and tourist than professionally licensed drivers. Their awareness is not at that same level. A top speed limit would give them the time they need to react to cars coming up on them. It would also limit the amateurs that wanted to go spend a million dollars on a car and have no idea how to handle the power or think they bought a "race car" just because it was expensive (Bugatti owners I'm looking at you).
@@Outlaw_270 So what would that be? With the "right" car and properly improper driving, you could kill yourself on the Nurburgring doing 50 mph. So shall we introduce a 40 mph speed limit?
The idea that 50cc scooters low speed would be a safety hazard has zero evidence in research, that's a completely made-up claim by annoyed drivers. It definitely would be on the Nurburgring, but not on city streets.
@@swecreations maybe not safety hazad, and he is probably just frustrated, but I agree, all of them are annoyances, and not just because of their speed, but also because of their piss loud sound, which nobody wants to hear...
Frankly, I think TF is rapidly becoming such a legal headache that it will end soon. I'm not sure I'll miss it either. What used to be a 'drive a race track, have fun in your daily car and don't go super fast because you still have to drive home' has turned into this nightmare mix of people in relatively slow everyday cars and absolute full blown supercar track specials, all of whom seem to be focused on posting the fastest time possible. Closing speeds of 150kph, trains of cars all too close to avoid crashing if the lead car brakes, people getting pissed because their 'lap time' got ruined, the whole thing is a mess.
Honestly, I feel like the Ring goes in to a completely wrong direction. Instead of banning older/slower Cars they should rather focus on those that make the Ring actually unsafe. Idiots in their leased Super Cars/Track build Cars that are out hunting for times. Perfect Example was in one of Misha's previous Videos with that black BMW that flashed him non stop. People like that make the ring unsafe, not that Fiat 500 that rolls around the Ring doing 100kph.
@@HaloDude557 Car companies lobby for them to be the way they are making an SUV in America is like a cheat code you get taxed way less and be exempt from bunch of laws ez money.
@@cin2110 Left over from the US car industry lobbying succesful that trucks don't need to meet the same safety requirements as regular cars... so people all got big arse trucks with double cabs... and now they still addicted to 'big car is safe' while in reality the opposite is true. More mass equals more energy at the same speed and this increase is exponential.
Thank you for posting this, Misha. I was fortunate to be able to fulfill a life long dream of driving the Nurburgring just a few weeks ago. It was everything I had hoped it would be, even though it was pouring rain. I was, however, amazed by the lack of any safety briefing or warnings. I walked up to the kiosk, paid for a few laps, got my Green Hell Card and was told to "have fun!". That's it! You are expected to read the little Tourist Drive pamphlet you are given which outlines some safety protocols and a phone number to call to report an issue. I was not told to read this, it was just assumed that I would. At the very least, I think everyone should be briefed on basic safety protocols before they are handed the card. On one lap, the car ahead was drifting around almost every corner which, according to the pamphlet is forbidden. It also made it nearly impossible to pass as he was setting up for a drifting line, not a 'racing' line through every corner. If a marshal, or video marshal, was employed he could have been given a virtual blue flag, or a warning between laps, etc... Anyway, this did not detract from the enjoyment of that lap, but it was absolutely a safety concern. Thanks again, Misha. I am a long time fan from Canada.
Blah blah blah, you cry baby..... Listen dude: if you drive a car on a German Autobahn it's also completely UP TO YOU, if you know the rules and if you are even capable to going safe on a speedlimitless road, where other cars can overtake you with more than 300 kph... On the Nordschleife "EVERY driver is responsible for his own fate or luck", as we say here in Germany. You just can't blame "guys who are not there for safety instructions"... How dare you, trashtalker???! Who do you think you are? Who do you think would be paying all these "hundreds of safety guards", who are in the discussion of some clowns like you??? Are you crazy? We are here in Germany, where BS complaints coming from some uneducated tourist cry babies like you, who are even thinking having "special rights" as a tourist, are totally irrelevant! It's ridiculous, that some clowns from other countries still think, coming to the Nordschleife means they have "rights"... This isn't case, because you don't have rights dude! The only things you have on the Nordschleife are duties, duties for driving on a 21 kilometer long racetrack!
Yikes! If this was in America, you can bet basically nobody would read the pamphlet, while I'd like to think the European people are much more likely to actually read it, certainly not everybody will, and they aren't the only people who go to the Nurburgring besides.
You have no safety warnings when you go on a highway either. You're expected to know the regulations of the track, obviously. Apparenly you have internet so that should be really simple.
The thing that keeps me most from heading down to the Ring and indulge myself in some TF is not the safety or lack of marshalls, it is the lack of respect and driving below one's limit on track. That is the real problem in my opinion. The full tilt attitude that was to be found on track days (rightfully so) swept over to TF for many years now. Influencers showing themself pushing for that magical lap time in TF do contribute to that problem and I am not excluding you, Misha. There are videos that leave me shaking my head at why there is not more margin left. The comments under each of your videos show that the attitude of "I am on the ring, of course I am pushing like hell, it is a racetrack" is to be found with a looot of folks. I mean, I get it, no one wants to drive on the Ring just for the scenery. But many seem to have forgotten that this was once what the TF were "invented" for. For the regular Joe to try out the track, to get a feel what it is like driving on that legendary circuit. I do think a seperation of bikes and cars is a great idea, though.
And that's actually a missconception , it is not "a racetrack". It is a public toll road with no speedlimit. All STVO rules apply to it, the same as on any other public road in Germany. Well, at least in theory, don't know how far the law is actually enforced on the Ring. Never been on it.
I agree with you,and as much as i like misha he should also understand that he is probably the biggest influencer of nurburgring and his videos alone has had a big impact on how many people drive and treat TF days. Over the years there have been videos from our own an loved youtuber that is actually quite shocking driving wise because of little margin and hard pushing. One that comes to mind fast is in an m3/4 where he almost totals it in the FIRST braking zone with his car full of people only to keep on going just as hard. Misha himself has directly contributed to this problem of zero fucks given. Now i do understand he will read this comment and I hope and do believe Misha is insightful enough to see and understand his part of this and not take this as me just critisising him but it is very easy to point fingers at everyone else and their "weird" rules without taking a look at their own part in why the rules are being made.
I 100% agree with the no pickup truck rule in america trucks by default now are the ride height of a lifted truck and people choose to LIFT IT EVEN MORE and add gigantic tires. Alot of pickups are the ride height of a semi truck or near it and weigh at least 3 tons. Beyond dangerous even if it hits a modern car.
yeeeep, and as was said, the barriers are NOT designed to cope with a truck slamming into them, they'd probably just get ejected over the top/flip. (also the blindspots are insane)
@@sydney4814 It's not just trucks, I read a recent Texas A&M Transport Institute study showing 1,800kg Tesla Model 3s were not being stopped by guard rail safety barriers, and this is at road speeds (100 kph), let alone ring speeds.
Nah, not even semis have that kind of ride height (ride height being the distance the chassis “rides” from the ground, not how high the driver sits), those lifted US monstrosities don’t belong on roads, let alone a track like the ‘ring. I remember seeing one of the designers of these things say he wanted it to look like a fist flying through the air, it was actively designed to look intimidating and be dangerous.
@@CraigOverend a single-rail safety barrier is a different type of safety barrier than a 2-3 rung racing barrier. also their maintenance is considerably lesser as many times, safety barriers are compromised and not replaced. (Nurburgring's fences are *insane* for what they can take, they don't fail during a 130mph impact) (A real problem is much of the world (or the US's and Canada's at least) is that their safety systems/crash barriers are NOT designed to withstand 2-3 tonnes slamming into them and are designed for lighter 1.3-1.8 tonne vehicles)
When you look at how that other guy drove his Team Schirmer M2 on your main channel a while back, you could see that he does not give two shts about other drivers and their safety even though he was on a tourist lap. These elite rich people should honestly stick to track days if they imagine in their tiny brains that they are real DTM drivers.
… and even trackdays (in general, not specific for the Ring) are there for a wide variety of drivers. No one has the exclusive right to set his fastest tile and jeopardize others safety …
@@karlj1717 you do need to have knowledge of the trackday rules and the line to drive. Get a rookie sticker and of you go. Keep an eye on the upcoming traffic and don’t do anything unexpected. Experienced or not, there’s always someone faster and probably someone slower (might have an issue)
I was there the other weekend for my first visit - rented a car w/ instructor for a few laps and did a taxi lap. My biggest takeaway was the Nurburgring is a place that commands the highest respect for knowing your own skills, other drivers around you and the relationship of how everything mixes together.
I didn’t even watch the video tbh (I guess I didn’t want to feel down before going to bed, at least not more than usual) But I’d like to thank you for everything you do, Misha These constant reminders are needed…. Sadly… Sorry for your loss I know what it’s like to bury a friend Stay safe everybody!
But that brings up another issue what about the very fast riders? I know someone with a Suzuki Hayabusa Turbo and those things are mental without a turbo and he can ride that thing to within a millimetre of the bikes life! And hes had it over so far that wore the letters off the side walls!
@@buckrogers2828 if he can ride with that level of precision he should be able to navigate through slower traffic effortlessly and have the self restraint to wait for the right time to overtake. If he can't then he's not suited for the track
Tow trucks should have skirts on, i'd like for at least on track days people be made to use flourescent dye in their coolant, its a pain but it would be much safer for everyone.
@@MozzarellaBasket but the most awesome experience i ever had! 2 good drivers can have a good go! The main thing people need is to respect eachother, slow vehicles should have their own days or hours, but the mix between cars and bikes was such a awesome time!
That is an excellent idea - I had an accident because a bike was hiding in my blind angle. Expecting him to take over I was waiting, looking in the driver side mirror taking eyes off the road ahead of me - ended up braking late for curve. Wheels on grass, slide into wall, rest is history. Luckily I was the only vehicle damaged and nobody was hurt.
Not only Niko's accident was very gut wrecking and sad to ear, but I realize he had the same type of accident than Jules Bianchi in 2014 at Suzuka. Bog track engines and machines are a real danger.
Bigger danger is race drivers not correctly respecting yellow flags or even worse running too fast under safety car, like unfortunately Jules Bianchi. And not many drivers have changed, just watch any race and the driver behaviour when there is a yellow flag or the amount of incidents under double yellow or even code 60. Even nowadays driver play games during virtual safety car (slow down to drive faster elswhere, sometimes even at the site of the accident, and still match target time) or drive irresponsible when closing gaps during safety car. Same goes for drivers thinking TF is a race day, if you want to race the Ring sign up for a race series or track days.
A lot of things can be done, but already what’s in place seems pretty impressive, I’ve noticed that the warning lights have been upgraded to bigger more powerful led panels. They seem way easier to notice even from the videos. The AI stuff should be a big improvement. Anyway you can have every safety system in place, there will always be an issue with drivers that acts as morons, exactly like on the road. And those need to be denied access at some point.
Misha I a bike rider "ONLY" myself , i totally 100% agree bikes & cars should be seperated race/road bike riders lines Area ( ) space is lot different to a race/road car drivers BUT i race offroad rally Bikes around Cars & trucks racing in same event it im totally fine with that as we have on board proximity safety warning devices.
I agree there is should be a dedicated session per day or bike day only, no cars. As Well for other classe of véhicule, vintage /old slow wathever , day for race registered cars, and the rest . Well rethink a schedual to make everybody happy. But it wont be easy for sure,,, my 2 cents 🤙✌
Separate days for faster and slower cars could make sense too. I like your line of thinking. My thought on safety inspection is to work with local shops to certify them to perform an inspection. They makes a few bucks and the traffic isn’t impacted as they could maybe upload a pic of the car so the track can compare and if something is different, then no access until recertification (they would also have to expire). I want to come to the Nurburgring someday, but I will certainly be one of the slower people just enjoying the cruise and don’t want to be in the way for you ripping a fast lap.
Or kind of like a mobile inspection station located at the car park (the one where the ticket office is located), similar to those tech inspections they're doing at drag events in the US.
I agree that would make sense, but then the track needs to be classified differently from a public road. Thats the problem we are facing here. Maybe add an clause where if the road is closed for x days a year for racing or similar activities it would then get special rules like being able to ban certain classes on certain days or something like that
Yeah but not every fast car owner drives fast meanwhile there ar people that have slower cars that are going faster then those cars and same whit tuned cars how do you know how fast a car is might be a car that had 90hp from factory but was fully build and now has 300hp my car gas 340 from factory and now has 580 ish horsepower but i bet you a e36 whit 250hp would probs smoke my cause im not a fast driver
@@mrbwa1 yeah if they look at my hp i would be whit the faster cars wich would not be fun 🤣 and i think there would be even more danger cause i would not feel comfertable and might cause an error cause of stres levels
Maybe the pick up ban is because of the potential for cars to go under the rear bed in an accident. The problem I see with the 130km/h minimum. How many cars are doing less than that, because the driver just wants to enjoy their tourist lap(s) and isn't there to set BTG times. IMO it is also stupid to not allow hybrid HANS.
If you can't go faster than 130kmh on an unlimited speed racetrack you do not, repeat DO NOT, belong on that track. At any time. If you want to trundle along at low speed, find a track that is a legal road and has a speed limit. Bathurst in Australia is an example of this.
@@LincolnsLawyer Well that's the thing, it's technically a public road where those laws still count much like on the autobahn so it would be hard to enforce a minimum speed limit that would be any higher then currently exists(80 IIRC, given that trucks do 90).
@thealmightysnark5878 it sounds different to Bathurst. When not in use as a racetrack, Bathurst is a fully policed public road with a maximum 60kmh speed limit. I can't say I've ever seen police handing out infractions at the 'Ring, but I could be wrong.
i think the Ring is really a unique example. Few if any race tracks that aren't outright street circuits are pretending to be a privately owned public toll road. It sounds like the owners are trying to avoid restrictions you might face if the ring was acknowledged as a race circuit, with the result being that some safety rules are a compromise that just aren't acceptible, or even outright contradictory with safety aims. RIP to Niko
While that unique aspect is really cool, I think that if we are concerned about maximizing driver safety they need to treat the race track like a race track. Every vehicle should be inspected before being allowed on track, every driver should have mandatory minimums for safety equipment, drivers new to the track should have to do their preliminary laps with an instructor, and marshals should always be stationed.
@@theKashConnoisseur i agree. but we live in an era where profit is often placed above all else, all these things cost money and I cannot see any sort of property owner whose top priority is profit, spending money on all these without any profit-motivation to do so. And none of us who love cars want to stop going there, so they don't even have a motivation to do all that is necessary to pursue max safety to avoid a negative consequence if they don't.
@@punkypink83 I think they need to decide whether they are a privately owned racetrack or a public toll road. Plenty of long sections of pavement exist perfectly fine after deciding to be one or the other. If they wanted to make it a privately owned race track, they could still make plenty of profit with much lower traffic keeping everyone safe and much higher costs to the prospective drivers. Or they could be a public toll road and still make plenty of money with the higher traffic and with the usual speed limits keeping everyone safe.
@@theKashConnoisseur the Nurburgring is already more into safety than most other tracks. Technically being a public road means there's strict rules regarding overtaking and just driving in general and every vehicle is expected to be road worthy. On the contrary in the few trackdays I've done they never inspected a single car, basically everything can enter the track so long as it's not too loud or actively falling apart but there's no overtaking rules so people with faster cars (or more skill) will fly by left right and center. I don't entirely disagree with what you're saying, just saying there's a lot of track days aren't even as strict as TF is
I wish the ring had (unwritten) rules for time schedules on what you can expect on track. Like from XX:XX till XX:XX the fast guys stay off track, let the inexperienced have a chill time, after that the inexperienced can expect that they can be passed at high speeds.
I don't know if you've ever ridden a motorcycle, but it's not that motorcyclists don't look in the rear-view mirror so they don't move to the side so that someone overtakes them, but when they lean into a corner at those speeds, they can't just change the line to one side or the other, even though they may see that they're someone wants to overtake
And even seeing in your mirrors is a challenge - if you're leant over or tucked in you won't see anything, and a lot of bike mirrors vibrate too much to be that useful anyway
Misha, as a Norwegian that works for my community and my village, I've been working hard for many years to improve the cell phone coverage in our village. But with all the hills and forest and nature, connectivity is hard and having the phone companies build more poles in correct locations for a properly covered network is HARD! Today all homes in my village got connectivity in their livingroom, somewhere, not always on the couch, gotta walk to the window or something. But the fact that you had an incident and no connectivity hits home. We had many of farmer accidents that was fatal and with no connectivity.
There are relatively cheap femto/micro/metro-cell devices that can provide local mobile phone coverage if wired internet is available. I have one in my home, which is in some dead zone and with it phone works great.
Give every car on track a transponder and use software to provide warnings when cars travel slow or have stopped.. that should generate an early warning system. Pickup trucks are unsafe as the weight is mostly forward and are therefore easy to spin out in corners
@@bumonthemove FYI, regarding pickup trucks. In Thailand they race Toyota and Isuzu diesel 2 door pickups. It's not that hard to bring the balance more rear. We put the battery, radiator and fans and two NOS tanks with a mounting frame and all associated pipes and valves etc in the back tray. Then we replaced the bonnet and front guards with carbon fibre and moved everything in the engine bay (like washer fluid bottle etc etc etc) to somewhere/anywhere else. We also lost some weight in the rear by replacing drum brakes with Brembo disk's, and we replaced the rear tailgate with carbon fibre also, and removed the rear bumper completely (that's a regulation in Thai truck racing). When it was all said and done the trailer manufacturer who made our car trailer said there is far more weight in the rear than the front and the balance of the car is now like a 911, they had to make the trailer longer so if I drive onto the trailer it actually balances. Otherwise we would have had to back her onto the trailer like some 911 owners have to. This was on a 4 door Isuzu DMAX pickup truck. It's actually for drag racing, hence the NOS, which is not allowed in Truck Racing here, and also I have 2 too many doors to compete, I actually sometimes daily this beast (170 HP, 580nm torque) so the extra doors allow my kids to get in the back. It has a giant single turbo and driving it is like driving a vacuum cleaner.
I still remember Martin Brundle calling out the tow truck being out during red flags, he knew it was coming too yet it unfortunately still happened. One of the recent Japanese races had Pierre Gasly flying under red flags too and almost causing a collision under extreme rain.
I just drove the Ring and Spa both for the first time this year. Vastly different experiences in terms of safety. Ring was a TF day Spa was a private track day. Excited to hear there’s more safety development happening at the Ring, it needs it IMO
I think it is because their chassis is mostly all heavy reinforced steel that doesn't dissipate energy with a crash, even today pickups have that "feature", from the very front to the very back it is like one big steel bar. Anyone that crashes into that is killed on impact. Normal vehicles have plastics or fiberglass bumpers to dissipate energy, killing the vehicle but not the person(s).
Using a Raceceiver device would help as this allows Officials to broadcast directly to all drivers giving instant notification of track conditions etc. I was sceptical of this at first but our Club uses these and it makes a huge difference , yes it is a added cost but well worth it.
What would really help, in my opinion, is to make people read and approve terms and conditions before purchasing lap tickets on site or online. Slower traffic to the right, only pass on the left, orange barriers for defects, don’t keep driving with a broken car, slow down for yellow signal/flag, no drifting.
Pick-up trucks, especially modern trucks, are way too tall and an impact with almost any type of vehicle will result in the vehicle which is not the truck will end up under a truck. That makes absolute sense.
Hi, first off, my condolences for your friend Nico. Thanks for putting together this video. I always enjoy your content! I’ve been to the Nürburgring twice this year, and every time I share my videos, people always say, “Why didn’t you go faster?” They don’t realize how intimidating the Ring can be, especially for a first-timer. It’s nerve-wracking to be pushing 200kph and then have a GT3 fly past! So, thank you for making these safety videos - they’re really helpful!
Pickup trucks don't have to adhere to the same levels of safety in construction as an suv. Different rules apply. Different construction methods. That's why they are cheaper to build and why they've been pushed so much in the USA
You are everything we need in the car / racing community. Thank you Misha. We all want to push the limits but not at the cost of our own or other’s safety.
I dont think the minimum speed is a bad idea, but they should implement more days for those slower cars. I'd love to drive my classic car amongst others on the Nurburgring :) I do wonder how they enforce that rule though, how do they know what speed a vehicle can reach?
After I finished my truck license, on my first trip right outside the city I came across a truck accident on the other side of the Autobahn... No way the driver had survived. It was a reminder to always be careful on the road. That being said, I know the numb feeling when you witness something like that.
13:28 the asphalt wears faster with heavier vehicles and some areas require certain depths of asphalt in order to support certain weights. also the barriers are probably rated for a certain amount of force. heavier vehicles obviously produce more force. not a justification. just a thought. much love 🤙🏻
Misha, your take on the very disjointed rules is spot on. Is it a public road or not? How is a truck any worse off than an SUV? Have they ever used a HANS device? I have and can still see in the mirrors. Even without a HANS device, I'm never trying to look over my shoulder while on track. Weird stuff.
It's genuinely a bureaucracy thing, they can't say it's a racetrack in TF and grant HANS and so on because then it becomes a paperwork nightmare if something happens. It's funny how they won't let a Ram TRX in but Durango Hellcat (both body on frame and same drivetrain) is OK 😅
@@Hammar89 I would lean towards the blanket truck ban being more about the potential for bumper height miss matches than the weight/power comparisons to SUV's.
Let me ask you a question. Why would you want to drive on a circuit with a high lifted heavy pig anyway? If you can say any reasonable argument, then I'm okay with it, but "that's the only thing I have" doesn't count!
I’m not very often at the Ring like many others but I’m there once a month so here is my take: fully agree on your points except for the slow cars point. A very slow car can indeed cause a tricky situation when few fast cars are approaching it at the same time. I’m thinking of the portion between Flugplatz and Schweden Kreuz where I personally had a tricky situation with a very slow rental…. you see it can also happen with slow drivers who are maybe on their first lap ever but it’s a least an attempt to rule out this kind of situations. I feel safer knowing that the new led panels are there. It’s an awesome thing and i believe that it’ll make a huge difference. What I think that we need are checks. If you want to drive you have to register your car online where foreign drivers have to upload a proof of insurance. I would also differentiate between stock, tuned and old vehicles because the risk of a leak occurring in a tuned and an old vehicle is potentially higher, maybe I’m wrong. I would do risk classes and do checks according the risk class in order to be allowed to go on the track. This involves a lot of effort and money. Something like a testing center has to be built. But there is enough space :) cheers from Frankfurt
Foreign insurance never covers the ring and they know that, they know how expensive insurance is for the ring for a foreign driver and that no one will pay it therefore they’d lose 50% of their customers- not going to happen. Tuned cars aren’t more likely to leak, since pipes are pipes.
@@peterk8874 yes that’s also my understanding but the majority of the insurance companies exclude the Ring but still, Haftpflicht will pay all the damage you do. They might come back to you afterwards and charge you up to around 5000€ which is comparative ok when you for example crash with a GT3 RS and it’s your fault. Some insurances fully cover the Nürburgring but there are very few and quite expensive. If you know one let me know :D
It's a very tricky situation where sadly some compromises should be made. I do agree that there should be maybe specific days once in a while for specific vehicles like pickups and bikes.
I can remember that in Serbia ,there was a traffic rule which stated that a motor vehicle must maintain a certain , minimum speed on a public road. So for example,if a speed limit is 80kph, minimum would be 60. In reality though ,that was barely ever enforced and it's a common sight to see a car hitting a tractor or somethig cause it was allowed on a fast,public road. Or a situation I had in Croatia,on a highway. Driving at 130 ,which is the limit ,and almost hitting a car ,in a fast lane that was doing 80. Because,again ,no one can stop that driver from driving that slowly. 🤷
It’s similar here in Australia. One of the bigger risks right now is that when roadworks sprawl over many kilometres (with evidently no current work being done), drivers begin to speed back up to the usual limit, but some continue at the roadworks limit. We end up with huge speed differentials. Unfortunately, it’s often safer for the driver to just go with the flow, which is a scary position for the workers on the road
In Spain the rule of thumb is that you must go at least half the speed limit for all roads. You face fines and loss of points in your drivers license if you go under without a proper reason.
Kia ora hello Misha from Aotearoa New Zealand. Hay my 18 year old son Strummer put me onto you're channel we both really enjoyed your personality and DRIVING!!!.
I think it's also a big risk in general that cars are getting more powerful and heavier while becoming more mainstream, which means anyone can buy them, also the people that don't know how to drive, wether it be on public roads or TF. People are still going on track with 20 year old cars which weigh around 1.5 tonnes tops while most of the new cars you see are easily around 2-2.5 tonnes and double or triple the horsepower of back in the day. Combining this on track surely is a big risk, not even considering throwing bikes into that mix
Misha, I've done track events here in the USA at: Corvette Racetrack in Bowling green, Kentucky. Homestead, Florida, and Atlanta Racetrack, Georgia. At all those tracks, the drivers are not allowed to pass other vehicles in front without a signal from the driver upfront to allow you to pass on either side. Also, everyone has to wear a helmet for safety. From the first videos that I saw you driving on open track days, I felt like it was a free for all on the rules with cars passing at any time or after the cars in front signal and move to the side to let the cars behind pass. Not seeing anyone wearing helmets during open track day seems like a bad idea as you mentioned, cars have gotten really fast! My 350Z is LS swapped with around 525 horsepower capable to do straights at 130 mph easy. I've spun out at times and been close to slamming my ride at a wall. I'm glad it never happened and if it did, I was wearing a helmet at least. I feel the Ring would be safer if cars were divided by horsepower output and making sure everyone gets a clear signal before they pass. I know it would make things slower but, safety should be a priority first and I think everyone will have a better time knowing that all vehicles are abiding by the same rules. I also agree with separating the motorcycles from cars. I'm terribly sorry for the tragic loss of a driver and hope solutions are being explored so everyone can enjoy the Green Hella.
I understand the pick up ban. Pick ups are horribly unbalanced, most of the weight is over the front wheels and under heavy braking that's a recipe for oversteer, as a lot of pick ups are rwd. Slower cars is very understandable, as you should by nature have a lower speed limit and upper speed limit. The HANS device is probably bureaucratic and partially about ability for emergency help in case of crash to respond in time. It's a knock on effect, to them it's better for the everyday non driver to not use the device as it limits their usual range of motion when driving a car, a their habits will take over. On race days there is far more safety officials and vehicles ready to respond, but on TF days the response will be much more delayed. So i think partial bureaucratic and the fact they'll have more problems with than without. I do believe that they should implement a Nurburgring loop license, that grades you on awareness and ability to navigate the course safely at speed. Public road as it may be, it's a very fast road in many places and i think safety course should be upheld for everyone's benefit. I do think they should split sessions, slower older cars should get a day, along with two wheel vehicles. I fail to see the logic in having two wheeled vehicles on track with high speed 4 wheel cars. It's bad enough some spots can be blind, cars have more leeway when it comes to awareness, a bike less so because you can only glance over your shoulders or look into your mirrors on a bike but sudden movements can make the bike unstable, unlike in a car. Also Nurburgring isn't really built for bike at all. So they'll be very slow in a lot of places due to the track itself. Weight and potential speed should be factors that separate which class of cars can be on the course together. I don't think bike, moped or any two wheeled vehicles should be on course with current cars. Better safe than sorry, cars still weigh over a ton and it just not worth the risk. Unless they lower the speed limit for cars and simply make mandatory sub 270km limit for everyone regardless of where they are on track.
Interesting points raised. As a twenty plus year user of the Ring, I note a few important changes. First, years ago there were 80% bikes, 20% cars. The general power level of cars was way, way lower. Now the opposite is true with 80% cars and 20% bikes. Generally, even common cars have 250 plus ps and lots more tyre grip. So their potential speeds are way higher for inexperienced drivers. Lastly, there is an expectation that it’s normal to try to achieve really low lap times in some serious performance cars. That is promoted by numerous RUclipsrs. But it is a public road and such driving should be reserved for closed track days. The speed differentials that result are simply not experienced on non autobahn roads for most drivers, so consequently are dangerous.
It will be hard to slow down the fast cars that are going for laptimes during TF. What can however be done quite easily is some driver training before they go on the track. At least then the new, or slow, driver can prepare himself for what's to come when he goes out on the track. I'm frequenting the ring for a couple of years now and I am still baffled by the lack of information that drivers have before they go on the track. Some just litteraly driver over here, buy a ticket and crash in their first lap because they have no clue as to what they are doing.
I think the HANS thing is stupid as hell but the weight thing is good, they should actually just ban all vehicles over 3 tons and have vehicles over 2.4 be banned except for certain "heavy car" days
It is all about respect for where you are, what you are doing and for everyone else around you. Misha frequently talks about people not wanting to crash but at a place like the Nurburgring it has and always will be something that will happen....'public road' or not this is a RACETRACK and therefore is a naturally dangerous place regardless if your driving TF or racing. Respect is the number one asset that anyone can have - you can see those who have it by the way they drive and how they prepare their cars / bikes. Being aware of your limits (and your vehicles limits) requires genuine thought and intelligence; knowing that there will always be someone faster than you and not feeling the childish need to show off etc etc... Even seasoned professionals and experts have crashes and 'moments' so for everyday enthusiasts (like myself) its all about learning the track, ideally on a half decent simulator, and realising that you have to play within the rules in order to have fun! Thanks again to Misha and others who constantly remind us that nobody is above reproach and that the most important thing after any incident is for everyone involved to be able to walk away and live to enjoy another day. Nurburgring forever ❤
@justincase9471 for what I understand from various videos here, it should be, but it is not officially, so you basically place a bet every time you use it. However, as I said, I prefer a ban to a spinal injury or hitting the roll cage with my head if I don't wear a helmet for the sole reason that the HANS is not allowed.
@@shgdf They wont ban you for it. If they see you with it then they will probably tell you to park to the right, remove your HANS device and go on with your lap. Bans are mostly for terrible driving, loud cars and drifting. They also only last for that day, the next day you are welcome to try again.
I was driving on an oval test track to check different engine behaviour under different torque settings. It was mandatory to take a blue light on top of the car and a walky talky like device. Both things were supplied by the track owners. In case of a potential safety hazard you contact the track watchers and they contact every other driver on the track while the blie lights on the top will activate. It helps a lot and this was done when at max 3 cars were on the track. The NBR with 100+ cars doesn't have that feature. Sure it would be expensive first, but in the end it worth it.
That is a great system for a restricted area track where it's easy to make the comms work reliably ... the Nurburgring is nearly 13 miles long so achieving the same would be many many times more expensive ... though certainly possible.
The Hans should be allowed to be worn it’s a massive safety innovation. Along with the fact that a 2” harness is mandatory to be worn with a HANS device. Sounds like the Nurburgring needs to have speed classes?
Things are certainly headed by in the right direction Misha. It’s always sad when tragedy prompts change. I hope to be over next year in a Porsche of some description and hope that things will be a safe as they can be both for myself and others. Stay safe Bro 👊🏼
Hey Mate, a fan from Australia here. Having worked in IT for 15 years and a lot with Ai models I can say that yes the model will be better next year, but what I find in the real world is it will most likely fail to pickup incidents or hazards (maybe 10%). The only thing that can be done to mitigate this is to have one very knowledgeable marshal watching and able to manually initiate the system. Or maybe I am completely wrong 😂 RIP Nikola
Random car inspections are essential, as too many sketchy cars enter the track. This would not only help prevent their entry but also instill caution in people, especially those unfamiliar with or disrespectful of local regulations.
there is one factor that is hard to limit. the person behind the wheel. i remember this guy from my youth, first he did when getting the drivers licence was having a lap on the ring, wrecking the beetle he build since he was 16. modern cars make drivers even more confident in their abilities, internet makes it look easy.
It’s a public road so slower vehicles day is the majority of days. Onus is always on the faster car to do the right thing. This is the official rules of the ring btw.
@@BrodeyDoverosx Ah…yes as per the point he made regarding just that. Cars have just kept getting faster and raising the overall bar and pushing out the smaller ones by majority rule in essence.
I’m a member of a sports organization where we require a volunteer at each location whenever anyone is practicing, competing, or training. Risk has two components… frequency and severity. For high severity you have to take extra steps that seem unreasonable because of the low likelihood of a severe event occurring. To me it seems critically important that observers be placed within line of sight of each other and all the track between them. For our organization, members are required to volunteer as safety observers in order to participate. You can’t buy your way out of it, trade with someone else, or escape being a safety observer if you want to use the facility and grounds. There really is no excuse for any of the track to be out of mobile phone range. Communication is absolutely critical. The ability to communicate to oncoming traffic is absolutely critical. I’m sure there are many other considerations that Ring veterans can successfully apply to reduce frequency and severity, but the loss of life and serious bodily injury will always remain in autosport. Safety observers and communication should be redundant. Stay smart and safe. Thank you for sharing.
Ach Micha, Du lebst in Deiner eigenen Welt. Du kennst den Ring sehr gut, bist ein guter und sehr schneller Fahrer und gewohnt mit 500+ PS unterwegs zu sein. Aus dieser Perspektive machen Deine Denkanstöße sicherlich Sinn. Aber die Nürburgring GmbH muß Regeln machen, die für die Allgemeinheit passen. Wer unter Regeln fahren will, die für ihn besser passen, muss halt an Trackdays oder entsprechenden Veranstaltungen (z. B. speziell für Motorräder oder Oldtimer) teilnehmen. Ich mache das jedenfalls so.
Wise words dude . 👍 Not an easy topic to discuss with no easy answers. Making the experience open to everyone is key even though I’m bias towards cars. We have to respect that there will be many inexperienced drivers / riders and some ‘questionably prepared’ vehicles let loose . We have all at sometime in our lives been inexperienced novices and are constantly learning . As with most tracks / track days / racing ,The ring will continue to stir the passion and keep motorsport alive letting the public experience something out of most people’s reach . That in itself is a precious benefit in a somewhat crazy world . The benefits for educating everyone is maybe not taken into account, be it personal driving development or practical skills by owner / builders who Learn to prepare and maintain vehicles is so so valuable in society fuelling a lifetime’s worth of knowledge . From suspension geometry to welding to 3d printing. Man would still be living in caves never leaning to sail the seas , start fires, develop flight, create medicine. That is the bigger picture , in my tiny mind . 🇬🇧
I don't know how RUclips's subtitles work. But it could have automatic subtitles. At least for Brazilians. Because I love motorsports. I love this channel but the lack of English It really makes it hard to understand what's going on in the videos. If there were a lot of Brazilian fans, they would be very happy about this. Thank you very much for your videos. Recommendations from Brazil. 🙏😎
Bikes and Cars seperate i totaly agree with you , im a biker and i understand your view on this. On almost every other track the track days are seperate due to safety reasons. Ive done some track days on the bike and even there is a difference in technical check ups , some organisations don't check the bike over at all , and some others do. And those that do check ups you often see people and bikes excluded from the trackday because issues on the vehicle. And if you ask me that is a good thing for sure. Being on track with vehicle's that have technical issues and something happens due to that is a hell to say the least.
HANS Should be allowed. It makes no sense as 'restrictive', (you can/should still look). You raise a good point in your video. Side note: Chances are if you're using a HANS you are an experienced driver.
HANS should be allowed only if your car has the proper belts though, keeping it strapped down to your body. Otherwise a HANS could be more dangerous (from what i remember having read, i could be wrong).
@misha in my opinion a well organized inspection station should be buildt. Dedicated for visitors that would like to take part on TF. Once the check has been passed they get a „Wagenpass“ for let‘s say 5 days. Of course logistically and timing wise it will be a challenge for both parties. But i am convinced it could help big time making the Ring safer because of all the leaking „Betriebsmittel“ on track. Clearly said it is an investment for both sides, speak an initial cost for the Ring comittee to organize such a inspection station which on the other hand will be a paid service by the TF visitor prior to get clearance for the race track. The visitor might be sceptic about that new cost implementation, also having taking in account that they‘ll have to do an appointment. But to save lives, and everyone should agree with that, no effort should be too small. You only live once.
Accidents are always sad, but racetracks are always dangerous. Im sorry, but if you wanna be safe dont drive the nürburgring. Simple as that. This may be a realtity too harsh for sponsors to accept someone saying but its true.
While I was watching the video you‘re talking about yesterday I was wondering what the story behind it was. Cause back then I wasn’t that much into watching Nürburgring videos or news in general. So therefore I didn’t get the info of that really sad and tragic loss of life! Now I do understand why this was that emotional for the owner of the Kadett and you of course, so thank you for sharing the background story to this video 🙏 To be honest I‘ve always wondered why the heck really heavy cars like said BMW XM, Dodge Durango, G-Class models of any kind, or other really heavy and quite often also not very fast and heavy cars are allowed on the track but not a Dodge TRX or a Ford Raptor… 🫣 It literally makes no sense at all that you can drive a Mercedes-Benz G350d (which weighs around 2.5t or even more) or a 2006 Land Rover Range Rover III 3.6 TDV8 (which weighs around 2.7t) on the track during TF, cause both cars are really heavy and not fast at all! And if any of these cars plows into the barrier, the barrier is gone and with it the car. I „almost“ get the point of „cars need to be able to reach at least 130 km/h“ but even if an old Fiat 500 is capable of doing so, how long does it take this car to reach that speed? Days, weeks or even months? YES, the speed differences during TF are literally INSANE to me, and I‘m only watching your videos, the last time I was on the ring? At least 20 years have passed since then. Safety devices like HANS should be allowed during TF in my opinion, cause you also need to check all the mirrors or your sides when you race a really slow car during a race with really slow and really fast cars. So what’s the point of NOT allowing HANS during TF? Last but not least I do want to mention another topic, you filming and editing. Do you really edit all your videos alone/by yourself? Cause that’s really impressive to me giving the fact that your day also only has 24 hours 😉 And what I really would love to see and HEAR: You and the passenger/owner of the car you‘re driving using a thing called Rode Wireless Go II (or the DJI pendant or Sennheiser or or or), cause sometimes I really struggle to understand what you guys are saying 🥴 (Yes, I‘m old but not that old and for sure not deaf 🤪 Sorry for the long comment, all the best and please y‘all stay safe out there, Philipp
Thanks a lot for sharing, and sorry to hear about the deadly crashes. As with everything, this is the right step in the right direction. But what is also really important is being able to influence the safety of the Nurb; otherwise, if things move at the same speed as the German bureaucracy, we'll have to wait another lifetime.
Are you allowed to run coolant at the Ring? A check to make sure drivers are only running straight water seems like a good idea . Here in US most track’s don’t allow coolant. Even drag strips. I don’t know how you’d enforce this but here your banned from track if running coolant. Seems like a good idea?
Since the Nordschleife legally isn't a racetrack most of the time, you can't really enforce anything as long as the cars are street legal. Could be a different case on days where the ring is closed to the public, such as track days, races or time attack
As far as safety, its definitely a good idea. But it's just not feasible for many reasons. Enforcing that rule would alienate a massive amount of paying customers from the ring. I mean, you can't expect a guy with something like a 2024 Bentley GT to drain his entire cooling system and swap it out for water just to go do a couple laps. Not to mention the fact that it would be a nightmare to enforce. On top of that. It would create the scenario where you drive your car to the ring. Only to get there and have to let your car sit for X amount of time before your engine is cool enough so your coolant reservoir or radiator can be checked for water. And most tracks in the US, whether its a road course or a drag strip does allow coolant. It just depends whether it's a test and tune night/open track day or a sanctioned event.
@@sdidriver4847 water is (by far) the best coolant available for any engine. It cools better than all the other coolants on the market. But it’s very bad for the longevity of the engine and it can’t handle freezing temperatures when not running. We use coolant for protection of the engine, not for the cooling capacity. Overheating because the use of water is definitely not a thing.
Denny Fitch, one of the pilot's instrumental in anyone surviving the United Flight 232 crash said: "What makes you so sure you are making it home tonght?" He was a major captain for an US airline, a very safe environment, but at 4 o clock he was trying to stay alive. Things can turn pretty quick, and often we can't really avoid it either.
9:55 Pickups react differently to crash situations. They don't have (or have very little) crumple zones, this puts lots of deceleration force on the passengers when a collision occurs... Also hits harder on the other end
And SUVs are basically specifically designed by the car industry to pretend they aren't like pickups. Which is why they get through these sorta checks (or just around, through exceptions).
This is an outright lie. Trucks have had crumple zones for decades the only real exception to this are cab over trucks which I don't think are a common sight on any race track.
Much love from Kenya here. Ever since the red "cup2" Porsche you drove, I have been thinking about the safety, since you're inviting thoughts let me share. - does the nurburg ring have to stay "public road"? If it can be closed or booked, can't it be structured in paper, a way for a union of you guys and regulars to book the track everyday indefinitely, and then sublet back the public so normal operations can be held, but with track rules? It's already considerably expensive to get onto the track, and the extra hassle of being inspected and opportunity for training is nothing compared to knowing you're having a safer experience, and the possibility of zero deaths. This would allow for the helmet system you mentioned and car inspection (on the gp track possibly) - I can't imagine the motorbikes like being in the track next to "cagers", esp because of the difference in cornering lines, they can't get the best use of the space and are compromising enjoyment, not even safety. -watching your videos over the years, feels like the track is closed randomly throughout the day, and some time theres massive traffic jams on the way there. What if there was depending on population, hours for different classes? Maybe 3 hour windows. One for bikes, then another for sub 130kph, then another for up to 230kph, then a "gt3" category. The hours could be flexible depending on population of previous class sessions and the timetable available online. A very long lasting dream of mine has been to bring my pickup truck, so guess its time to wake up,😅
1. Yes it does, it's a private road during track days. If you want to chase laptimes, then please book a trackday on the Nordschleife. 2. Well we mix, and most of the times it goes well. Bikers do drive different lines and they don't expect cars to be that fast on the track. Most of the times it goes well, but sometimes your stuck for 4km behind a biker that does not care about traffic behind him. 3. Yes that's correct. The track is closed sometimes during the day for cleaning up accidents, and during high times we have traffic jams from the track all the way up to the ED. Splitting the traffic (cars and bikes) would be my preference as well. During the week the sessions are too short to do this, but in the weekends there is room to have 'biker-only' hours. I don't drive a bike on the track anymore, just a car, but I would be in favor of doing it like this.
Trackday class system. Mon - Wed = under 420hp. Thu = Bikes. Fri - Sat = Unlimited. Sun = Mixed. Hans should be allowed. Driver courses in etiquette (short and sweet) should be mandatory. Maybe sticker should be mandatory on car if driver has less then 50 laps, like L plate.
vielen dank Misha für dieses video & diese gute erklärung aller umstände usw. ... 💜 knuddel 💜 Big thanks for this vid and your explain of the crash & the safty of nürbr. ... stay healty & big hug
I think the theory behind the "pickup truck" rule MAY(I cannot emphasize enough that this is a THEORY and NOT an official word from 'Ring staff) be that they usually ride taller than comparable SUVs but also critically, have higher riding rear bumpers than most contemporary SUVs meaning a higher likelihood of a vehicle "submarining" below a vehicle like that's undercarriage. Now most cars are more than capable of keeping the driver/passenger cell intact in a rollover accident(some even without the addition of roll cages/bars) but add even a 1.5 ton truck to that workload and suddenly that windshield frame doesn't look so stout. Add to that those trucks usually being outfitted with towing implements and you begin to see the series of unfortunate events that might unfold. Personally, I think the commercial vans and heavy SUVs are okay? As they are usually quite "low" riding by comparison. But the "pick up truck" change I definitely agree with.
Regarding the ban on pickup trucks, most of them are driven as RWD and have nothing in the bed. So you have a high center of gravity, a light rear end, and a RWD set up. Its a recipe for disaster for a track day. SUV's and Trucks are pretty rare to see at a track day in the US despite their popularity.
I just flat out think certain cars, Especially tiny open top cars like Miata's shouldn't even be allowed on the track unless it has a full certified cage. FIA Seats/Belts and all the accompanying safety gear to go with that. Granted, even cages aren't a guarantee that you'll survive some type of crazy accident.
I disagree - these kinds of cars are made for enthusiast driving. It would be better to make sure that vehicles that are dangerous to them ( pickup trucks, lorries) are not allowed or must be safe for small cars to crash into.
its kinda crazy.. the Nordschleife is my favorite track and im basically only watching racing on this track. despite that, im now uncovering many crashes in the last 9 years that i never knew happened. i never knew of the Miata pile up crash. And i now also read that in 2024 a motorbiker from new zealand died on the track? I think its not a good thing that the Nordschleife owners are so secretive about this topic. it kinda gives the vibe that the track isnt that dangerous. And it shows when we look how mostly foreign drivers behave here. or when we see 2 people on one motorcycle making dangerous decisions. i mean if even people that are Nordschleife fans for years are uninformed about the crashes, imagine how bad it is for foreign drivers. it should be more public that this track can be really dangerous. Without showing any victims of course.. but in any way or form people should get more informed about this topic. i absolutely know that this is the (probabaly) most dangerous and tricky track in the world.. despite that it feels like were getting used to just see all the good and funny things and never any serious things, cause the Nordschleife doesnt even allow ANY crash to be shown on RUclips etc. its like its hidden from our minds.. atleast thats how i feel, after i heard about the Miata crash. But this needs to be acknowledged. i would even go as far, as to say that brand new drivers have to hear a short online lecture about the track that also talks about crashes. with some kind of quiz at the end that they have to solve. Its just a minimal safety feature but its better then nothing.
I think the speed issue is related to the end of the straights/straighter sections where speed differentials will be highest. I wouldn't be surprised if somebody organises a 'slower car trackday' where vehicles that can exceed 130km/h or 140km/h are banned, so that Beetle owners get their fix. There's no way that an AI camera system can spot that your Porsches radiator expansion bottle has overflowed & contaminated the track, the best it can do is detect that the car behind you ended up with the back end stepping out dramatically, & _deduce_ that something is down. It follows that you can still be first on scene at a coolant spill without warning, & you ending up in the barriers is what tells the AI that there is a problem.
I'm afraid Misha is part of th safety problem. Driving too hard, leaving too little margin, hence frequent accidents. There's a high probability that Misha's Ring "career" is going to end in tragedy the way he drives.
@@NickV1978 It's not complicated. Just drive with more margin than Misha. He has close calls in a high proportion of videos, plus numerous crashes. His reputation among locals at the ring is not positive. This isn't about whether he's quick, it's about whether he's safe. The locals / regulars as opposed to internet fanboys think he is not safe and have tired of him. It's obvious to anyone well informed from his videos he's not safe. He is at very high risk of harming someone. Or worse. It will likely end badly for him and sadly for someone else.
@@flat6croc I've got to disagree with you on this; no doubt you're entitled to your opinion but this was never about saying that Misha is quick, or holding him in a high regard as a result. Safety is always a top priority but if you expect a 100% record then you're going to be left wanting. The Nurburgring is a race track and is by its very nature an extremely dangerous place with over 200 recorded deaths over the years. I don't know if you have any experience driving this circuit (or any others) but I do and I can tell you that Misha, IMO, is definitely one of the safer drivers out there. Consider the years he has lived there, the thousands of laps he has under his belt, the range of cars he has driven (and raced), the people who lend their cars to him and also pay him to take others on Taxi Laps in their own cars (all of the Apex Cars and, more recently, Trackspeeds' GT3 spring to mind) and, with due respect, I think you may need to re-direct your frustrations towards those who deserve to hear them.
@@NickV1978 Nobody said anything about a flawless 100% record being required. That's a bullshit comment to make, I implied nothing of the sort, not even remotely. Misha isn't safe and the locals / regulars don't view him as safe. He pushes too hard and has too many accidents and is constantly and needlessly having very close calls. Like I said, the odds are high it's all going to end in tragedy. The fact that loads of fan boys queue up to risk their cars and their health with Misha proves nothing. Popularity is not and never has been well correlated with merit. I suggest you do some research into how Misha is viewed by the experienced Ring community as opposed to the RUclips teenybopper mouth-breathing massive. He is not held in high regard and for good and obvious reasons.
An MX-5 or any other roadster is not the safest vehicle on the road / track in any crash situation. I drive them (NC/ND) now for 10 years as a hobby car on sunny days / trips so I realize it very well @anticipation. Still like driving the twoseater though!
Back in the 70's 80's and 90's, I only ever rode bikes on the Nordschleife (without my wife knowing). And I totally agree with different times for bikes and cars. I have lost count of the number of times cars have pulled across on me while I was overtaking them.
Sorry for your loss and thank you for addressing safety contradictions. Out of curiosity how does the no cars under 130km/hr work if they are modified to the T for performance?
My recommendation would be to obligate linking your account to the track and only allowing the barrier to open when you have watched a short safety instruction video. Maybe even make it mandatory to watch it every year since each season there are changes to the track or changes in the rules. They already have the accountsystem, so it shouldn't be a very difficult thing to do and I think that would dramatically increase the awareness of newcommers on the track. I see often people not checking their mirrors or not knowing you have to stay right if a faster vehicle approaches. For newcomers it's also more reasuring knowing what is to be expected of them.
I'm a biker myself. I would love to ride the Nurburgring on my bike one day, as I did with my car 2 years ago. But I really do not want to get wedged between some cars. It would be awesome having a dedicated Touristenfahrten slot only for bikers. But I guess there is simply not much demand for that. There is also another aspect about motorcycles, which makes it extremly dangerous: Mirrors. The mirrors tend to vibrate at a certain speed, which makes it extremly difficult to watch them and the cars behind you. Most of the time, I can see that there is someone behind me when riding the autobahn at higher speeds, but only if they have their headlights on. There are ways to reduce the vibration, but as with everything in motorcycles, it's up to you to come up with a solution to that problem.
Great video very sad what happened to Nikola Koprivica ☹ Maybe an online quick non complicated brief online test should be done before you can book so you know track basics and what to do in an emergency situation on the Nürburgring.. It would be boring for pros but for the amateur drivers they it will become second nature.. Possible track marshall volunteers I'm sure loads of the car community would enjoy helping with the safety of others in their spare time.. Different car and bike category sessions even horsepower or vehicle so bikes only and cars only... Keep up the great videos Misha 👍👍 Awesome!! Watching from England
Any vehicle rated for towing significant weight (trucks/SUV’s) has a modified rear structure to reinforce it for towing. My 2018 Grand Cherokee (rated for towing 7200lbs) was rear ended by a Sienna van. The van was totaled while my Jeep suffered only minor damage. Road America here in US does not allow trucks or SUV’s on track days.
Hi, es gab mal eine Zeit wo ein " marshall service " von Auto - und Motorradfahrern oder auch Zuschauern organisiert wurde. Da wurden privat gelbe Flaggen hergestellt und verteilt, da hatte jeder der wollte Warnmaterial im Auto oder am Motorrad. Das wurde wohl auch mit einer Reduzierung des Jahreskartenpreises belohnt. Aus irgendwelchen Gründen wurde das dann nach und nach verboten. Sei es der Missbrauch der reduzierten Jahreskarte oder auch versicherungstechnische Gründe das keiner mehr die Strecke betreten durfte. Bis dahin waren zuverlässig immer mehrere mit gelben Flaggen unterwegs die sofort warnen konnten. Das wurde dann irgendwann abgeschafft oder verboten und seit dem gibt es nur die offiziellen marshalls die ihre Runden drehen und inzwischen die festen Posten und die Leuchttafeln. Da es immer jemanden gibt der irgendwas besser weiss wird es Vor - und Rückschritte geben. Die einzige Sicherheit wird am Ende sein die Touristenfahrten einzustellen und nur noch geführte Fahrten oder Lehrgänge anzubieten.
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LONG POST WARNING! I've been filming at the Nordschleife since 2013, and the biggest thing that I have noticed changing over the last 11 years, is the type of cars that drive during the TF.
Back in 2013, at least from my perspective, there were 80 to 90% of actual "tourists" on track, driving their Peugeot 405 or Ford Mondeo etc, while only 10 to 20% of the cars on track were actual track-build cars like BMW M3 and Porsches. Seeing a Porsche 991 GT3RS on track back then, was HUGE. However if we look at what is driving on track today, it is completely the other way around: 80 to 90% of cars on track are mega fast tracktools, fully build BMW M3's and M4's, COUNTLESS Porsche 992 GT3RS's and Cayman GT4RS's. The speed has (like you mentioned) also gone up exponentionally. But (from my perspective) the respect to other drivers, and in particular the respect to slower/less experienced drivers, has gone down DRASTICALLY. Laptimes have been banned for a couple of years now, but to me it feels like this has no effect anymore since everyone is running GoPro's and still making BTG xx-minutes videos on RUclips.
I believe that this is also the reason REAL tourists (who want to drive their very first lap on the Nordschleife) don't want to take the risk anymore or they are way too intimidated by the extreme speed difference. People often comment on my videos why I only show BMW and Porsches, but in reality, that's 95% of the cars on track nowadays.
Last but not least, I truly believe that the ticket pricing is way off. A single lap on weekend days costs € 35,- while a season card costs € 3000,-. This might seem expensive for a season card, but the "rich guys" in the GT3RS's easily do over a 1000 laps a year, making the season card cost only € 3,- per lap. My suggestion would be to get rid of the unlimited laps on a season card, and bring it down to € 1500,- for 100 laps (or similar), that way the ones that drive the most amount of laps have to pay more (but still only € 15,- per lap) and the Nürburgring management can bring down the price for a single lap ticket to € 25,-. This is just an example that I believe will help to restore the distribution of tourists vs tracktools on track.
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I've been saying this for some time now... People take Touristenfahrten as Trackdays when they are not... I think you should generally limit heavily modified vehicles to special days every 2 Weeks or so, so actual tourists can do Touristenfahrten again... wont happen of course because of money... But driving anything with a power to weight ratio of less than 0,3 Hp/t basically means you'll be bullied by the Fastest Idiots on the Ring...
100%
"I believe that this is also the reason REAL tourists (who want to drive their very first lap on the Nordschleife) don't want to take the risk anymore" THAT'S exactly the case for me. I would love to drive one or two Laps with my Daughter in my 08/15 Family Car there. To show her that AMAZING Historic Track and Landscape. 80% of those crazy People and their maxed out Cars at TF should go for dedicated Track Days there if they want to run fast... I'm not risking her Life in TF on a sightseeing Trip there, just because some Nutjob is on a Hot Lap for stupid Internet fame.
Back in the 80s my whole school class went around the track in a bus on a public day. (The bus driver took the inner line in Karussell. 😊)
Nurburgring stopping people from posting crash videos here on RUclips was a super big fail on their part too.
Those videos sobered me and my friends up to the reality of what can happen.
They had no choice, there wasn't a big problem with people (like me) posting crash videos. The problem started when some guys (looking at you EMS) decided to post crash videos with heavy injuries or fatalities as well...
It's an insurance/liability thing.
@@AutoAddictionMedia Don't blame him. Sure maybe he should have self censored like you but he was doing us good.
I blame the Nurburgring.
@@v4skunk739 Don't blame him? The crash footage of people getting seriously injured were sometimes online even before the driver made it to the hospital... Think about the family of those guys, not even aware of what happened and then seeing the video...
Surprised it wasn't RUclips itself playing at being net nanny. That said, I for one wouldn't be interested in actively looking for videos of real life crashes. To do so is kinda like people slowing to a crawl passing the scene of a crash not for safety but to try to get a good look. Morbid...
As a motorcyclist and car enthusiast I completely agree. I would never want to enter a track on a bike knowing vehicles could lose control and cause a horrific accident.
I personally think the safest thing that could be done would be creating different classifications for track days so that at given times only a certain class is allowed on track. I don’t think that modern sports cars such as Porsche 992 GT3 or Mercedes AMG GTR should be running on track with a motorcycle or a Toyota Corolla
Based on my experience it is often the other way around... 😘
@@staLkerhuit goes both ways in my opinion. I am sure motorcyclists probably are more unaware on track as there is much more they are concerned about and driving in your mirror on a bike is extremely dangerous. I think my concern is just general safety and mixed vehicle “classes”, if you will, is dangerous
The ring is a horrible track to enjoy a bike on, never understood why riders even want to go on.
But it's also down to the Rider/Driver as either can be great or both having the IQ of a Toaster. As machine is no Guarantee to Capabilities!.
Ive known people the only time they look in the mirror is to brush their hair! you see them with mirrors broken/pointing anywhere but where should be.
I spend ages setting my mirrors up be it in truck or car so can easily spot things and have spacial awareness.
that would increase pricing a lot, nobody would pay that and the ring would close
R.I.P Nikola Koprivica
(1) wear helmets (2) wear simpson hans, (3) minimum long pants, minimum long sleeved shirts, gloves boots and gloves. (4) have 2L fire extinguisher (5) window breaker (6) minimum 4 point harness (7) car inspection before going on "track" (8) induction for first time drivers (9) minimum age limit
@VK6AB- bro are you dumb? It's an accident 🤦♂️
@@VK6AB- True, problem is when you go under the tow truck, then its all useless
@@VK6AB-(10) Don't try to drive under a tow truck
@@arenam79 Drive to the conditions.......
I do not watch your videos solely because you are a talented driver. I watch your videos, because YOU are Misha! The driver is always more important than the car. There are good drivers who are slow, and there are fast drivers who aren't good people. I heavily respect that you are a fast driver, who is a good person. I get entertainment, laughs, and knowledge from you for complete free. The least I can do is comment and like. I watched your videos before this tragic accident occurred. I have always been impressed with your respect for safety and other drivers. I honestly wish I showed the level of respect for Motorsports as you do. You are a real one Misha, stay classy! 🫡
Exactly the cars are just the cherry on top.
Very well put. a thousand percent why i watch.
The minimum speed is a big safety improvement. We have people riding these 50cc scooters on city streets and can't maintain speed on roadway. Some drop off to 18 mph on hills and can't go much over 30-35 mph on the flat. This creates a moving chicane.
35mph is perectly fine for city streets and its often speed limit for cars on roads where 50cc are allowed to drive.
The same argument could be made that a top speed limit needs to be in place for safety. It is a fact that the Nürburgring sees more amateurs and tourist than professionally licensed drivers. Their awareness is not at that same level. A top speed limit would give them the time they need to react to cars coming up on them. It would also limit the amateurs that wanted to go spend a million dollars on a car and have no idea how to handle the power or think they bought a "race car" just because it was expensive (Bugatti owners I'm looking at you).
@@Outlaw_270 So what would that be? With the "right" car and properly improper driving, you could kill yourself on the Nurburgring doing 50 mph. So shall we introduce a 40 mph speed limit?
The idea that 50cc scooters low speed would be a safety hazard has zero evidence in research, that's a completely made-up claim by annoyed drivers.
It definitely would be on the Nurburgring, but not on city streets.
@@swecreations maybe not safety hazad, and he is probably just frustrated, but I agree, all of them are annoyances, and not just because of their speed, but also because of their piss loud sound, which nobody wants to hear...
Frankly, I think TF is rapidly becoming such a legal headache that it will end soon. I'm not sure I'll miss it either.
What used to be a 'drive a race track, have fun in your daily car and don't go super fast because you still have to drive home' has turned into this nightmare mix of people in relatively slow everyday cars and absolute full blown supercar track specials, all of whom seem to be focused on posting the fastest time possible. Closing speeds of 150kph, trains of cars all too close to avoid crashing if the lead car brakes, people getting pissed because their 'lap time' got ruined, the whole thing is a mess.
Honestly, I feel like the Ring goes in to a completely wrong direction. Instead of banning older/slower Cars they should rather focus on those that make the Ring actually unsafe. Idiots in their leased Super Cars/Track build Cars that are out hunting for times. Perfect Example was in one of Misha's previous Videos with that black BMW that flashed him non stop. People like that make the ring unsafe, not that Fiat 500 that rolls around the Ring doing 100kph.
The first thing that comes to mind with banning pickup trucks is bumper height. But SUVs are pretty high, too.
Those need to be banned from American roads. Or require an extra license. Too many brainlets driving those death machines
@@HaloDude557 Car companies lobby for them to be the way they are making an SUV in America is like a cheat code you get taxed way less and be exempt from bunch of laws ez money.
@@cin2110 yea EPA emissions laws are the main culprit
hey the US gov is maximizing the height of trucks now.
@@cin2110 Left over from the US car industry lobbying succesful that trucks don't need to meet the same safety requirements as regular cars... so people all got big arse trucks with double cabs... and now they still addicted to 'big car is safe' while in reality the opposite is true. More mass equals more energy at the same speed and this increase is exponential.
Thank you for posting this, Misha. I was fortunate to be able to fulfill a life long dream of driving the Nurburgring just a few weeks ago. It was everything I had hoped it would be, even though it was pouring rain. I was, however, amazed by the lack of any safety briefing or warnings. I walked up to the kiosk, paid for a few laps, got my Green Hell Card and was told to "have fun!". That's it! You are expected to read the little Tourist Drive pamphlet you are given which outlines some safety protocols and a phone number to call to report an issue. I was not told to read this, it was just assumed that I would. At the very least, I think everyone should be briefed on basic safety protocols before they are handed the card.
On one lap, the car ahead was drifting around almost every corner which, according to the pamphlet is forbidden. It also made it nearly impossible to pass as he was setting up for a drifting line, not a 'racing' line through every corner. If a marshal, or video marshal, was employed he could have been given a virtual blue flag, or a warning between laps, etc... Anyway, this did not detract from the enjoyment of that lap, but it was absolutely a safety concern.
Thanks again, Misha. I am a long time fan from Canada.
Blah blah blah, you cry baby.....
Listen dude: if you drive a car on a German Autobahn it's also completely UP TO YOU, if you know the rules and if you are even capable to going safe on a speedlimitless road, where other cars can overtake you with more than 300 kph...
On the Nordschleife "EVERY driver is responsible for his own fate or luck", as we say here in Germany.
You just can't blame "guys who are not there for safety instructions"... How dare you, trashtalker???!
Who do you think you are? Who do you think would be paying all these "hundreds of safety guards", who are in the discussion of some clowns like you???
Are you crazy?
We are here in Germany, where BS complaints coming from some uneducated tourist cry babies like you, who are even thinking having "special rights" as a tourist, are totally irrelevant!
It's ridiculous, that some clowns from other countries still think, coming to the Nordschleife means they have "rights"...
This isn't case, because you don't have rights dude! The only things you have on the Nordschleife are duties, duties for driving on a 21 kilometer long racetrack!
Yikes! If this was in America, you can bet basically nobody would read the pamphlet, while I'd like to think the European people are much more likely to actually read it, certainly not everybody will, and they aren't the only people who go to the Nurburgring besides.
You have no safety warnings when you go on a highway either. You're expected to know the regulations of the track, obviously. Apparenly you have internet so that should be really simple.
@@bencze465 Common sense is not common.
@@bencze465 You have to be licensed before you can drive any vehicle on any public road, and getting that license involves proving you know the rules.
The thing that keeps me most from heading down to the Ring and indulge myself in some TF is not the safety or lack of marshalls, it is the lack of respect and driving below one's limit on track. That is the real problem in my opinion. The full tilt attitude that was to be found on track days (rightfully so) swept over to TF for many years now.
Influencers showing themself pushing for that magical lap time in TF do contribute to that problem and I am not excluding you, Misha. There are videos that leave me shaking my head at why there is not more margin left. The comments under each of your videos show that the attitude of "I am on the ring, of course I am pushing like hell, it is a racetrack" is to be found with a looot of folks. I mean, I get it, no one wants to drive on the Ring just for the scenery. But many seem to have forgotten that this was once what the TF were "invented" for. For the regular Joe to try out the track, to get a feel what it is like driving on that legendary circuit. I do think a seperation of bikes and cars is a great idea, though.
And that's actually a missconception , it is not "a racetrack". It is a public toll road with no speedlimit.
All STVO rules apply to it, the same as on any other public road in Germany.
Well, at least in theory, don't know how far the law is actually enforced on the Ring. Never been on it.
The camera / AI system should be used to find idiots that do unsafe things and ban them. 3 offences, ban for life.
I agree with you,and as much as i like misha he should also understand that he is probably the biggest influencer of nurburgring and his videos alone has had a big impact on how many people drive and treat TF days. Over the years there have been videos from our own an loved youtuber that is actually quite shocking driving wise because of little margin and hard pushing.
One that comes to mind fast is in an m3/4 where he almost totals it in the FIRST braking zone with his car full of people only to keep on going just as hard.
Misha himself has directly contributed to this problem of zero fucks given. Now i do understand he will read this comment and I hope and do believe Misha is insightful enough to see and understand his part of this and not take this as me just critisising him but it is very easy to point fingers at everyone else and their "weird" rules without taking a look at their own part in why the rules are being made.
Well said !
Totaly agree, TF is not a race day/fastest lap attent
+ he didn’t wearn an helmet 95% of time, what an exemple... 😢
I 100% agree with the no pickup truck rule in america trucks by default now are the ride height of a lifted truck and people choose to LIFT IT EVEN MORE and add gigantic tires. Alot of pickups are the ride height of a semi truck or near it and weigh at least 3 tons. Beyond dangerous even if it hits a modern car.
yeeeep, and as was said, the barriers are NOT designed to cope with a truck slamming into them, they'd probably just get ejected over the top/flip. (also the blindspots are insane)
@@sydney4814 It's not just trucks, I read a recent Texas A&M Transport Institute study showing 1,800kg Tesla Model 3s were not being stopped by guard rail safety barriers, and this is at road speeds (100 kph), let alone ring speeds.
Nah, not even semis have that kind of ride height (ride height being the distance the chassis “rides” from the ground, not how high the driver sits), those lifted US monstrosities don’t belong on roads, let alone a track like the ‘ring.
I remember seeing one of the designers of these things say he wanted it to look like a fist flying through the air, it was actively designed to look intimidating and be dangerous.
@@CraigOverend a single-rail safety barrier is a different type of safety barrier than a 2-3 rung racing barrier. also their maintenance is considerably lesser as many times, safety barriers are compromised and not replaced. (Nurburgring's fences are *insane* for what they can take, they don't fail during a 130mph impact)
(A real problem is much of the world (or the US's and Canada's at least) is that their safety systems/crash barriers are NOT designed to withstand 2-3 tonnes slamming into them and are designed for lighter 1.3-1.8 tonne vehicles)
And beyond beyond dangerous if it hits an old car, since old cars already disintegrate vs a modern small or compact car.
When you look at how that other guy drove his Team Schirmer M2 on your main channel a while back, you could see that he does not give two shts about other drivers and their safety even though he was on a tourist lap. These elite rich people should honestly stick to track days if they imagine in their tiny brains that they are real DTM drivers.
The camera always adds a little boost to a persons ego
… and even trackdays (in general, not specific for the Ring) are there for a wide variety of drivers. No one has the exclusive right to set his fastest tile and jeopardize others safety …
neither does mischa if you look at how he drives in his onboards...
If your driving isn’t up to a certain standard on a track day and you’re dangerous you will be black flagged and banned from future track days.
@@karlj1717 you do need to have knowledge of the trackday rules and the line to drive. Get a rookie sticker and of you go. Keep an eye on the upcoming traffic and don’t do anything unexpected.
Experienced or not, there’s always someone faster and probably someone slower (might have an issue)
I was there the other weekend for my first visit - rented a car w/ instructor for a few laps and did a taxi lap. My biggest takeaway was the Nurburgring is a place that commands the highest respect for knowing your own skills, other drivers around you and the relationship of how everything mixes together.
I didn’t even watch the video tbh
(I guess I didn’t want to feel down before going to bed, at least not more than usual)
But I’d like to thank you for everything you do, Misha
These constant reminders are needed…. Sadly…
Sorry for your loss
I know what it’s like to bury a friend
Stay safe everybody!
It is an emotional one for sure but its also a beautiful tribute
stay safe homie !
I very much agree with your opinion on separating bikes and cars.
But that brings up another issue what about the very fast riders? I know someone with a Suzuki Hayabusa Turbo and those things are mental without a turbo and he can ride that thing to within a millimetre of the bikes life! And hes had it over so far that wore the letters off the side walls!
@@buckrogers2828have car only days, have bike only days. ain’t that hard
@@buckrogers2828 if he can ride with that level of precision he should be able to navigate through slower traffic effortlessly and have the self restraint to wait for the right time to overtake. If he can't then he's not suited for the track
Tow trucks should have skirts on, i'd like for at least on track days people be made to use flourescent dye in their coolant, its a pain but it would be much safer for everyone.
That's a brilliant idea. I don't know if it's possible, but I love the idea.
That's what I'm saying since Jules Bianchis Chrash. If it works for semi truck/lorrys it should work on other vehicles as well.
Banning slow vehicles is good idea, for the bikers it should be an hour per day or every 2nd day just for them.
Yeah we should have specific bike hours. Bikes and cars riding together is extremely dangerous
@@MozzarellaBasket but the most awesome experience i ever had! 2 good drivers can have a good go! The main thing people need is to respect eachother, slow vehicles should have their own days or hours, but the mix between cars and bikes was such a awesome time!
Or add hours for slow cars. Driving slow cars fast is a lot of fun.
@@Carnold_YT it is
That is an excellent idea - I had an accident because a bike was hiding in my blind angle. Expecting him to take over I was waiting, looking in the driver side mirror taking eyes off the road ahead of me - ended up braking late for curve. Wheels on grass, slide into wall, rest is history. Luckily I was the only vehicle damaged and nobody was hurt.
Not only Niko's accident was very gut wrecking and sad to ear, but I realize he had the same type of accident than Jules Bianchi in 2014 at Suzuka. Bog track engines and machines are a real danger.
I remember that 2014 accident...tragic
Bigger danger is race drivers not correctly respecting yellow flags or even worse running too fast under safety car, like unfortunately Jules Bianchi. And not many drivers have changed, just watch any race and the driver behaviour when there is a yellow flag or the amount of incidents under double yellow or even code 60. Even nowadays driver play games during virtual safety car (slow down to drive faster elswhere, sometimes even at the site of the accident, and still match target time) or drive irresponsible when closing gaps during safety car.
Same goes for drivers thinking TF is a race day, if you want to race the Ring sign up for a race series or track days.
A lot of things can be done, but already what’s in place seems pretty impressive, I’ve noticed that the warning lights have been upgraded to bigger more powerful led panels. They seem way easier to notice even from the videos. The AI stuff should be a big improvement. Anyway you can have every safety system in place, there will always be an issue with drivers that acts as morons, exactly like on the road. And those need to be denied access at some point.
Misha I a bike rider "ONLY" myself , i totally 100% agree bikes & cars should be seperated race/road bike riders lines Area ( ) space is lot different to a race/road car drivers BUT i race offroad rally Bikes around Cars & trucks racing in same event it im totally fine with that as we have on board proximity safety warning devices.
I agree there is should be a dedicated session per day or bike day only, no cars. As Well for other classe of véhicule, vintage /old slow wathever , day for race registered cars, and the rest . Well rethink a schedual to make everybody happy. But it wont be easy for sure,,, my 2 cents 🤙✌
Separate days for faster and slower cars could make sense too. I like your line of thinking.
My thought on safety inspection is to work with local shops to certify them to perform an inspection. They makes a few bucks and the traffic isn’t impacted as they could maybe upload a pic of the car so the track can compare and if something is different, then no access until recertification (they would also have to expire).
I want to come to the Nurburgring someday, but I will certainly be one of the slower people just enjoying the cruise and don’t want to be in the way for you ripping a fast lap.
Or kind of like a mobile inspection station located at the car park (the one where the ticket office is located), similar to those tech inspections they're doing at drag events in the US.
I agree that would make sense, but then the track needs to be classified differently from a public road. Thats the problem we are facing here. Maybe add an clause where if the road is closed for x days a year for racing or similar activities it would then get special rules like being able to ban certain classes on certain days or something like that
Yeah but not every fast car owner drives fast meanwhile there ar people that have slower cars that are going faster then those cars and same whit tuned cars how do you know how fast a car is might be a car that had 90hp from factory but was fully build and now has 300hp my car gas 340 from factory and now has 580 ish horsepower but i bet you a e36 whit 250hp would probs smoke my cause im not a fast driver
@@havefun1226 Very good point.
@@mrbwa1 yeah if they look at my hp i would be whit the faster cars wich would not be fun 🤣 and i think there would be even more danger cause i would not feel comfertable and might cause an error cause of stres levels
Much respect for making this video!
Maybe the pick up ban is because of the potential for cars to go under the rear bed in an accident.
The problem I see with the 130km/h minimum. How many cars are doing less than that, because the driver just wants to enjoy their tourist lap(s) and isn't there to set BTG times.
IMO it is also stupid to not allow hybrid HANS.
The 130kmh minimum is about the capability of the vehicle, not the actual driven speed on track
If you can't go faster than 130kmh on an unlimited speed racetrack you do not, repeat DO NOT, belong on that track. At any time. If you want to trundle along at low speed, find a track that is a legal road and has a speed limit. Bathurst in Australia is an example of this.
it’s a racetrack in a public highway system. if you cannot control your vehicle at sufficient speed, don’t drive it on the nurburgring.
@@LincolnsLawyer Well that's the thing, it's technically a public road where those laws still count much like on the autobahn so it would be hard to enforce a minimum speed limit that would be any higher then currently exists(80 IIRC, given that trucks do 90).
@thealmightysnark5878 it sounds different to Bathurst. When not in use as a racetrack, Bathurst is a fully policed public road with a maximum 60kmh speed limit. I can't say I've ever seen police handing out infractions at the 'Ring, but I could be wrong.
i think the Ring is really a unique example. Few if any race tracks that aren't outright street circuits are pretending to be a privately owned public toll road. It sounds like the owners are trying to avoid restrictions you might face if the ring was acknowledged as a race circuit, with the result being that some safety rules are a compromise that just aren't acceptible, or even outright contradictory with safety aims.
RIP to Niko
While that unique aspect is really cool, I think that if we are concerned about maximizing driver safety they need to treat the race track like a race track. Every vehicle should be inspected before being allowed on track, every driver should have mandatory minimums for safety equipment, drivers new to the track should have to do their preliminary laps with an instructor, and marshals should always be stationed.
@@theKashConnoisseur i agree. but we live in an era where profit is often placed above all else, all these things cost money and I cannot see any sort of property owner whose top priority is profit, spending money on all these without any profit-motivation to do so. And none of us who love cars want to stop going there, so they don't even have a motivation to do all that is necessary to pursue max safety to avoid a negative consequence if they don't.
@@punkypink83 I think they need to decide whether they are a privately owned racetrack or a public toll road. Plenty of long sections of pavement exist perfectly fine after deciding to be one or the other. If they wanted to make it a privately owned race track, they could still make plenty of profit with much lower traffic keeping everyone safe and much higher costs to the prospective drivers. Or they could be a public toll road and still make plenty of money with the higher traffic and with the usual speed limits keeping everyone safe.
@@theKashConnoisseur the Nurburgring is already more into safety than most other tracks. Technically being a public road means there's strict rules regarding overtaking and just driving in general and every vehicle is expected to be road worthy. On the contrary in the few trackdays I've done they never inspected a single car, basically everything can enter the track so long as it's not too loud or actively falling apart but there's no overtaking rules so people with faster cars (or more skill) will fly by left right and center.
I don't entirely disagree with what you're saying, just saying there's a lot of track days aren't even as strict as TF is
I wish the ring had (unwritten) rules for time schedules on what you can expect on track. Like from XX:XX till XX:XX the fast guys stay off track, let the inexperienced have a chill time, after that the inexperienced can expect that they can be passed at high speeds.
I don't know if you've ever ridden a motorcycle, but it's not that motorcyclists don't look in the rear-view mirror so they don't move to the side so that someone overtakes them, but when they lean into a corner at those speeds, they can't just change the line to one side or the other, even though they may see that they're someone wants to overtake
Plus bikes may need to take very different lines in corners than a car does. Cars corner predictably to other cars, bikes not so much.
And even seeing in your mirrors is a challenge - if you're leant over or tucked in you won't see anything, and a lot of bike mirrors vibrate too much to be that useful anyway
Misha, as a Norwegian that works for my community and my village, I've been working hard for many years to improve the cell phone coverage in our village.
But with all the hills and forest and nature, connectivity is hard and having the phone companies build more poles in correct locations for a properly covered network is HARD!
Today all homes in my village got connectivity in their livingroom, somewhere, not always on the couch, gotta walk to the window or something.
But the fact that you had an incident and no connectivity hits home. We had many of farmer accidents that was fatal and with no connectivity.
There are relatively cheap femto/micro/metro-cell devices that can provide local mobile phone coverage if wired internet is available. I have one in my home, which is in some dead zone and with it phone works great.
Give every car on track a transponder and use software to provide warnings when cars travel slow or have stopped.. that should generate an early warning system.
Pickup trucks are unsafe as the weight is mostly forward and are therefore easy to spin out in corners
In my time driving I've seen at least 3 trucks that have spun out accelerating out of a corner, such as getting onto a freeway.
yep this is also something already used on other tracks, at least during track days
This is what they use at the Magarigawa Club in Japan. GPS transponder and lights showing yellow flag etc.
I dont think you realise how many cars are going through the barriers every minute on a tourist day at the nurburgring
@@bumonthemove FYI, regarding pickup trucks. In Thailand they race Toyota and Isuzu diesel 2 door pickups. It's not that hard to bring the balance more rear. We put the battery, radiator and fans and two NOS tanks with a mounting frame and all associated pipes and valves etc in the back tray.
Then we replaced the bonnet and front guards with carbon fibre and moved everything in the engine bay (like washer fluid bottle etc etc etc) to somewhere/anywhere else.
We also lost some weight in the rear by replacing drum brakes with Brembo disk's, and we replaced the rear tailgate with carbon fibre also, and removed the rear bumper completely (that's a regulation in Thai truck racing).
When it was all said and done the trailer manufacturer who made our car trailer said there is far more weight in the rear than the front and the balance of the car is now like a 911, they had to make the trailer longer so if I drive onto the trailer it actually balances. Otherwise we would have had to back her onto the trailer like some 911 owners have to.
This was on a 4 door Isuzu DMAX pickup truck. It's actually for drag racing, hence the NOS, which is not allowed in Truck Racing here, and also I have 2 too many doors to compete, I actually sometimes daily this beast (170 HP, 580nm torque) so the extra doors allow my kids to get in the back.
It has a giant single turbo and driving it is like driving a vacuum cleaner.
It reminds me Jules Bianchi accident in F1. Every time it is something tragic has to happen to change safety regulations...
I still remember Martin Brundle calling out the tow truck being out during red flags, he knew it was coming too yet it unfortunately still happened. One of the recent Japanese races had Pierre Gasly flying under red flags too and almost causing a collision under extreme rain.
laws are written in blood in safety and racing unfortunately.
I just drove the Ring and Spa both for the first time this year. Vastly different experiences in terms of safety.
Ring was a TF day
Spa was a private track day.
Excited to hear there’s more safety development happening at the Ring, it needs it IMO
I think the problem with Pickup Trucks is their massive and high chassis structure when a fast car crashes on them.
It makes no sense, it’s a weight thing. SUVs are heavier
Pickup trucks still have to meet public safety standards/regulations and one of those standards is a min and max collision height
I think it is because their chassis is mostly all heavy reinforced steel that doesn't dissipate energy with a crash, even today pickups have that "feature", from the very front to the very back it is like one big steel bar. Anyone that crashes into that is killed on impact.
Normal vehicles have plastics or fiberglass bumpers to dissipate energy, killing the vehicle but not the person(s).
@@Becausefamilycarbut pickups do not have to meet the same safety standards as SUVs as in most countries they are Commercial Trucks and not “cars”.
@@bravoA-su8xmthey don’t have to meet all of the safety rules that apply to cars (SUVs are also “cars”).
Using a Raceceiver device would help as this allows Officials to broadcast directly to all drivers giving instant notification of track conditions etc. I was sceptical of this at first but our Club uses these and it makes a huge difference , yes it is a added cost but well worth it.
What would really help, in my opinion, is to make people read and approve terms and conditions before purchasing lap tickets on site or online. Slower traffic to the right, only pass on the left, orange barriers for defects, don’t keep driving with a broken car, slow down for yellow signal/flag, no drifting.
Basically all that is in tge terms and conditions, which you agree too by driving there
Pick-up trucks, especially modern trucks, are way too tall and an impact with almost any type of vehicle will result in the vehicle which is not the truck will end up under a truck.
That makes absolute sense.
So ban cars and only allow trucks on the road.
Hi, first off, my condolences for your friend Nico. Thanks for putting together this video. I always enjoy your content! I’ve been to the Nürburgring twice this year, and every time I share my videos, people always say, “Why didn’t you go faster?” They don’t realize how intimidating the Ring can be, especially for a first-timer. It’s nerve-wracking to be pushing 200kph and then have a GT3 fly past! So, thank you for making these safety videos - they’re really helpful!
Pickup trucks don't have to adhere to the same levels of safety in construction as an suv. Different rules apply. Different construction methods. That's why they are cheaper to build and why they've been pushed so much in the USA
You are everything we need in the car / racing community. Thank you Misha. We all want to push the limits but not at the cost of our own or other’s safety.
I dont think the minimum speed is a bad idea, but they should implement more days for those slower cars. I'd love to drive my classic car amongst others on the Nurburgring :)
I do wonder how they enforce that rule though, how do they know what speed a vehicle can reach?
yeah have theme days. pickup and suv day, motocycle day, scooter day, parade lap day etc.
After I finished my truck license, on my first trip right outside the city I came across a truck accident on the other side of the Autobahn...
No way the driver had survived. It was a reminder to always be careful on the road.
That being said, I know the numb feeling when you witness something like that.
13:28 the asphalt wears faster with heavier vehicles and some areas require certain depths of asphalt in order to support certain weights. also the barriers are probably rated for a certain amount of force. heavier vehicles obviously produce more force. not a justification. just a thought. much love 🤙🏻
Misha, your take on the very disjointed rules is spot on. Is it a public road or not? How is a truck any worse off than an SUV? Have they ever used a HANS device? I have and can still see in the mirrors. Even without a HANS device, I'm never trying to look over my shoulder while on track. Weird stuff.
Ill always want to drive the nurburgring but its good to understand and have a reminder that when driving safety first in general thank u.
Misha - kudos to you because after Nico's accident you were one of the very few who went on record about the need for safety improvements .
It's genuinely a bureaucracy thing, they can't say it's a racetrack in TF and grant HANS and so on because then it becomes a paperwork nightmare if something happens. It's funny how they won't let a Ram TRX in but Durango Hellcat (both body on frame and same drivetrain) is OK 😅
Oh yes🥲
@mgcharoudin2 also good they don't consider the tow trucks pickup trucks that always do over 130kph 🙄
@@Hammar89 I would lean towards the blanket truck ban being more about the potential for bumper height miss matches than the weight/power comparisons to SUV's.
Let me ask you a question. Why would you want to drive on a circuit with a high lifted heavy pig anyway? If you can say any reasonable argument, then I'm okay with it, but "that's the only thing I have" doesn't count!
@@staLkerhuit’s a public road after all so it might be what they have, and so they should use it
Thank you Misha. You really work to make it safer and more fun for others. This is sad, by lack of better words.
Thanks for educating
I’m not very often at the Ring like many others but I’m there once a month so here is my take: fully agree on your points except for the slow cars point. A very slow car can indeed cause a tricky situation when few fast cars are approaching it at the same time. I’m thinking of the portion between Flugplatz and Schweden Kreuz where I personally had a tricky situation with a very slow rental…. you see it can also happen with slow drivers who are maybe on their first lap ever but it’s a least an attempt to rule out this kind of situations. I feel safer knowing that the new led panels are there. It’s an awesome thing and i believe that it’ll make a huge difference.
What I think that we need are checks.
If you want to drive you have to register your car online where foreign drivers have to upload a proof of insurance. I would also differentiate between stock, tuned and old vehicles because the risk of a leak occurring in a tuned and an old vehicle is potentially higher, maybe I’m wrong. I would do risk classes and do checks according the risk class in order to be allowed to go on the track. This involves a lot of effort and money. Something like a testing center has to be built. But there is enough space :) cheers from Frankfurt
Foreign insurance never covers the ring and they know that, they know how expensive insurance is for the ring for a foreign driver and that no one will pay it therefore they’d lose 50% of their customers- not going to happen. Tuned cars aren’t more likely to leak, since pipes are pipes.
Why should it not cover the Ring?
The Ring is a public Toll road, StVO applies to it as on any other public german road.
@@peterk8874 yes that’s also my understanding but the majority of the insurance companies exclude the Ring but still, Haftpflicht will pay all the damage you do. They might come back to you afterwards and charge you up to around 5000€ which is comparative ok when you for example crash with a GT3 RS and it’s your fault. Some insurances fully cover the Nürburgring but there are very few and quite expensive. If you know one let me know :D
Are you sure they exclude the Nordschleife and not only the Nürburgring GP (permanent Race track)?
@@peterk8874 unfortunately yes. My insurance exclude every kind of Touristenfahrten doesn’t matter on which part of the track.
It's a very tricky situation where sadly some compromises should be made. I do agree that there should be maybe specific days once in a while for specific vehicles like pickups and bikes.
I can remember that in Serbia ,there was a traffic rule which stated that a motor vehicle must maintain a certain , minimum speed on a public road. So for example,if a speed limit is 80kph, minimum would be 60. In reality though ,that was barely ever enforced and it's a common sight to see a car hitting a tractor or somethig cause it was allowed on a fast,public road. Or a situation I had in Croatia,on a highway. Driving at 130 ,which is the limit ,and almost hitting a car ,in a fast lane that was doing 80. Because,again ,no one can stop that driver from driving that slowly. 🤷
It’s similar here in Australia. One of the bigger risks right now is that when roadworks sprawl over many kilometres (with evidently no current work being done), drivers begin to speed back up to the usual limit, but some continue at the roadworks limit. We end up with huge speed differentials. Unfortunately, it’s often safer for the driver to just go with the flow, which is a scary position for the workers on the road
In Spain the rule of thumb is that you must go at least half the speed limit for all roads. You face fines and loss of points in your drivers license if you go under without a proper reason.
Kia ora hello Misha from Aotearoa New Zealand. Hay my 18 year old son Strummer put me onto you're channel we both really enjoyed your personality and DRIVING!!!.
I think it's also a big risk in general that cars are getting more powerful and heavier while becoming more mainstream, which means anyone can buy them, also the people that don't know how to drive, wether it be on public roads or TF. People are still going on track with 20 year old cars which weigh around 1.5 tonnes tops while most of the new cars you see are easily around 2-2.5 tonnes and double or triple the horsepower of back in the day. Combining this on track surely is a big risk, not even considering throwing bikes into that mix
Misha, I've done track events here in the USA at: Corvette Racetrack in Bowling green, Kentucky. Homestead, Florida, and Atlanta Racetrack, Georgia. At all those tracks, the drivers are not allowed to pass other vehicles in front without a signal from the driver upfront to allow you to pass on either side. Also, everyone has to wear a helmet for safety. From the first videos that I saw you driving on open track days, I felt like it was a free for all on the rules with cars passing at any time or after the cars in front signal and move to the side to let the cars behind pass. Not seeing anyone wearing helmets during open track day seems like a bad idea as you mentioned, cars have gotten really fast! My 350Z is LS swapped with around 525 horsepower capable to do straights at 130 mph easy. I've spun out at times and been close to slamming my ride at a wall. I'm glad it never happened and if it did, I was wearing a helmet at least. I feel the Ring would be safer if cars were divided by horsepower output and making sure everyone gets a clear signal before they pass. I know it would make things slower but, safety should be a priority first and I think everyone will have a better time knowing that all vehicles are abiding by the same rules. I also agree with separating the motorcycles from cars. I'm terribly sorry for the tragic loss of a driver and hope solutions are being explored so everyone can enjoy the Green Hella.
I understand the pick up ban. Pick ups are horribly unbalanced, most of the weight is over the front wheels and under heavy braking that's a recipe for oversteer, as a lot of pick ups are rwd.
Slower cars is very understandable, as you should by nature have a lower speed limit and upper speed limit.
The HANS device is probably bureaucratic and partially about ability for emergency help in case of crash to respond in time. It's a knock on effect, to them it's better for the everyday non driver to not use the device as it limits their usual range of motion when driving a car, a their habits will take over. On race days there is far more safety officials and vehicles ready to respond, but on TF days the response will be much more delayed. So i think partial bureaucratic and the fact they'll have more problems with than without.
I do believe that they should implement a Nurburgring loop license, that grades you on awareness and ability to navigate the course safely at speed. Public road as it may be, it's a very fast road in many places and i think safety course should be upheld for everyone's benefit. I do think they should split sessions, slower older cars should get a day, along with two wheel vehicles. I fail to see the logic in having two wheeled vehicles on track with high speed 4 wheel cars. It's bad enough some spots can be blind, cars have more leeway when it comes to awareness, a bike less so because you can only glance over your shoulders or look into your mirrors on a bike but sudden movements can make the bike unstable, unlike in a car. Also Nurburgring isn't really built for bike at all. So they'll be very slow in a lot of places due to the track itself.
Weight and potential speed should be factors that separate which class of cars can be on the course together. I don't think bike, moped or any two wheeled vehicles should be on course with current cars. Better safe than sorry, cars still weigh over a ton and it just not worth the risk. Unless they lower the speed limit for cars and simply make mandatory sub 270km limit for everyone regardless of where they are on track.
Interesting points raised. As a twenty plus year user of the Ring, I note a few important changes. First, years ago there were 80% bikes, 20% cars. The general power level of cars was way, way lower. Now the opposite is true with 80% cars and 20% bikes. Generally, even common cars have 250 plus ps and lots more tyre grip. So their potential speeds are way higher for inexperienced drivers. Lastly, there is an expectation that it’s normal to try to achieve really low lap times in some serious performance cars. That is promoted by numerous RUclipsrs. But it is a public road and such driving should be reserved for closed track days. The speed differentials that result are simply not experienced on non autobahn roads for most drivers, so consequently are dangerous.
It will be hard to slow down the fast cars that are going for laptimes during TF. What can however be done quite easily is some driver training before they go on the track. At least then the new, or slow, driver can prepare himself for what's to come when he goes out on the track.
I'm frequenting the ring for a couple of years now and I am still baffled by the lack of information that drivers have before they go on the track. Some just litteraly driver over here, buy a ticket and crash in their first lap because they have no clue as to what they are doing.
I think the HANS thing is stupid as hell but the weight thing is good, they should actually just ban all vehicles over 3 tons and have vehicles over 2.4 be banned except for certain "heavy car" days
this would mean the new BMW M5 would be semi-banned LOL
@@purpleneons yeah, but it is what it is, having all these fat cars around the track is a problem for everyone!
It is all about respect for where you are, what you are doing and for everyone else around you. Misha frequently talks about people not wanting to crash but at a place like the Nurburgring it has and always will be something that will happen....'public road' or not this is a RACETRACK and therefore is a naturally dangerous place regardless if your driving TF or racing. Respect is the number one asset that anyone can have - you can see those who have it by the way they drive and how they prepare their cars / bikes. Being aware of your limits (and your vehicles limits) requires genuine thought and intelligence; knowing that there will always be someone faster than you and not feeling the childish need to show off etc etc... Even seasoned professionals and experts have crashes and 'moments' so for everyday enthusiasts (like myself) its all about learning the track, ideally on a half decent simulator, and realising that you have to play within the rules in order to have fun!
Thanks again to Misha and others who constantly remind us that nobody is above reproach and that the most important thing after any incident is for everyone involved to be able to walk away and live to enjoy another day.
Nurburgring forever ❤
The no HANS thing really drives me nuts. However, I prefer risking a ban than having a serious neck injury, all day long.
HANS Hybrid is still allowed during TF isn't it?
@justincase9471 for what I understand from various videos here, it should be, but it is not officially, so you basically place a bet every time you use it. However, as I said, I prefer a ban to a spinal injury or hitting the roll cage with my head if I don't wear a helmet for the sole reason that the HANS is not allowed.
@@shgdf They wont ban you for it. If they see you with it then they will probably tell you to park to the right, remove your HANS device and go on with your lap. Bans are mostly for terrible driving, loud cars and drifting. They also only last for that day, the next day you are welcome to try again.
@@justincase9471 then that's everything I need. The strategy is clear for me.
I was driving on an oval test track to check different engine behaviour under different torque settings.
It was mandatory to take a blue light on top of the car and a walky talky like device. Both things were supplied by the track owners. In case of a potential safety hazard you contact the track watchers and they contact every other driver on the track while the blie lights on the top will activate. It helps a lot and this was done when at max 3 cars were on the track. The NBR with 100+ cars doesn't have that feature. Sure it would be expensive first, but in the end it worth it.
That is a great system for a restricted area track where it's easy to make the comms work reliably ... the Nurburgring is nearly 13 miles long so achieving the same would be many many times more expensive ... though certainly possible.
The Hans should be allowed to be worn it’s a massive safety innovation. Along with the fact that a 2” harness is mandatory to be worn with a HANS device.
Sounds like the Nurburgring needs to have speed classes?
Things are certainly headed by in the right direction Misha. It’s always sad when tragedy prompts change. I hope to be over next year in a Porsche of some description and hope that things will be a safe as they can be both for myself and others. Stay safe Bro 👊🏼
Hey Mate, a fan from Australia here. Having worked in IT for 15 years and a lot with Ai models I can say that yes the model will be better next year, but what I find in the real world is it will most likely fail to pickup incidents or hazards (maybe 10%). The only thing that can be done to mitigate this is to have one very knowledgeable marshal watching and able to manually initiate the system. Or maybe I am completely wrong 😂
RIP Nikola
Hi Mischa, you’re a great human being and an equally great asset to the Nurburgring 🙌🏼
Random car inspections are essential, as too many sketchy cars enter the track. This would not only help prevent their entry but also instill caution in people, especially those unfamiliar with or disrespectful of local regulations.
Thank you for taking time talking about this.
there is one factor that is hard to limit. the person behind the wheel.
i remember this guy from my youth, first he did when getting the drivers licence was having a lap on the ring, wrecking the beetle he build since he was 16. modern cars make drivers even more confident in their abilities, internet makes it look easy.
Bonjour Misha,
Votre expertise est juste.
Merci pour votre vidéo
Make a "Slower car and vehicles day" then maybe
It’s a public road so slower vehicles day is the majority of days. Onus is always on the faster car to do the right thing.
This is the official rules of the ring btw.
@@BrodeyDoverosx Ah…yes as per the point he made regarding just that. Cars have just kept getting faster and raising the overall bar and pushing out the smaller ones by majority rule in essence.
I’m a member of a sports organization where we require a volunteer at each location whenever anyone is practicing, competing, or training. Risk has two components… frequency and severity. For high severity you have to take extra steps that seem unreasonable because of the low likelihood of a severe event occurring. To me it seems critically important that observers be placed within line of sight of each other and all the track between them. For our organization, members are required to volunteer as safety observers in order to participate. You can’t buy your way out of it, trade with someone else, or escape being a safety observer if you want to use the facility and grounds. There really is no excuse for any of the track to be out of mobile phone range. Communication is absolutely critical. The ability to communicate to oncoming traffic is absolutely critical. I’m sure there are many other considerations that Ring veterans can successfully apply to reduce frequency and severity, but the loss of life and serious bodily injury will always remain in autosport. Safety observers and communication should be redundant. Stay smart and safe. Thank you for sharing.
Ach Micha, Du lebst in Deiner eigenen Welt. Du kennst den Ring sehr gut, bist ein guter und sehr schneller Fahrer und gewohnt mit 500+ PS unterwegs zu sein. Aus dieser Perspektive machen Deine Denkanstöße sicherlich Sinn. Aber die Nürburgring GmbH muß Regeln machen, die für die Allgemeinheit passen. Wer unter Regeln fahren will, die für ihn besser passen, muss halt an Trackdays oder entsprechenden Veranstaltungen (z. B. speziell für Motorräder oder Oldtimer) teilnehmen. Ich mache das jedenfalls so.
Wise words dude . 👍
Not an easy topic to discuss with no easy answers.
Making the experience open to everyone is key even though I’m bias towards cars.
We have to respect that there will be many inexperienced drivers / riders and some ‘questionably prepared’ vehicles let loose .
We have all at sometime in our lives been inexperienced novices and are constantly learning .
As with most tracks / track days / racing ,The ring will continue to stir the passion and keep motorsport alive letting the public experience something out of most people’s reach . That in itself is a precious benefit in a somewhat crazy world .
The benefits for educating everyone is maybe not taken into account, be it personal driving development or practical skills by owner / builders who Learn to prepare and maintain vehicles is so so valuable in society fuelling a lifetime’s worth of knowledge . From suspension geometry to welding to 3d printing.
Man would still be living in caves never leaning to sail the seas , start fires, develop flight, create medicine.
That is the bigger picture , in my tiny mind . 🇬🇧
1. BAN ALL SUV, PICK UPS OR VEHICLES WITH RAISED SUSPENSIONS.
2. ALLOW HYBRID HANS SYSTEMS.
I don't know how RUclips's subtitles work. But it could have automatic subtitles. At least for Brazilians. Because I love motorsports. I love this channel but the lack of English It really makes it hard to understand what's going on in the videos. If there were a lot of Brazilian fans, they would be very happy about this. Thank you very much for your videos. Recommendations from Brazil. 🙏😎
Its the ride height of most pickup trucks that make collisions so dangerous
And the mass!
Bikes and Cars seperate i totaly agree with you , im a biker and i understand your view on this. On almost every other track the track days are seperate due to safety reasons.
Ive done some track days on the bike and even there is a difference in technical check ups , some organisations don't check the bike over at all , and some others do. And those that do check ups you often see people and bikes excluded from the trackday because issues on the vehicle. And if you ask me that is a good thing for sure. Being on track with vehicle's that have technical issues and something happens due to that is a hell to say the least.
HANS Should be allowed.
It makes no sense as 'restrictive', (you can/should still look). You raise a good point in your video.
Side note: Chances are if you're using a HANS you are an experienced driver.
HANS should be allowed only if your car has the proper belts though, keeping it strapped down to your body.
Otherwise a HANS could be more dangerous (from what i remember having read, i could be wrong).
@misha in my opinion a well organized inspection station should be buildt. Dedicated for visitors that would like to take part on TF. Once the check has been passed they get a „Wagenpass“ for let‘s say 5 days. Of course logistically and timing wise it will be a challenge for both parties. But i am convinced it could help big time making the Ring safer because of all the leaking „Betriebsmittel“ on track.
Clearly said it is an investment for both sides, speak an initial cost for the Ring comittee to organize such a inspection station which on the other hand will be a paid service by the TF visitor prior to get clearance for the race track. The visitor might be sceptic about that new cost implementation, also having taking in account that they‘ll have to do an appointment. But to save lives, and everyone should agree with that, no effort should be too small. You only live once.
Accidents are always sad, but racetracks are always dangerous. Im sorry, but if you wanna be safe dont drive the nürburgring. Simple as that. This may be a realtity too harsh for sponsors to accept someone saying but its true.
While I was watching the video you‘re talking about yesterday I was wondering what the story behind it was. Cause back then I wasn’t that much into watching Nürburgring videos or news in general.
So therefore I didn’t get the info of that really sad and tragic loss of life!
Now I do understand why this was that emotional for the owner of the Kadett and you of course, so thank you for sharing the background story to this video 🙏
To be honest I‘ve always wondered why the heck really heavy cars like said BMW XM, Dodge Durango, G-Class models of any kind, or other really heavy and quite often also not very fast and heavy cars are allowed on the track but not a Dodge TRX or a Ford Raptor… 🫣 It literally makes no sense at all that you can drive a Mercedes-Benz G350d (which weighs around 2.5t or even more) or a 2006 Land Rover Range Rover III 3.6 TDV8 (which weighs around 2.7t) on the track during TF, cause both cars are really heavy and not fast at all! And if any of these cars plows into the barrier, the barrier is gone and with it the car.
I „almost“ get the point of „cars need to be able to reach at least 130 km/h“ but even if an old Fiat 500 is capable of doing so, how long does it take this car to reach that speed? Days, weeks or even months?
YES, the speed differences during TF are literally INSANE to me, and I‘m only watching your videos, the last time I was on the ring? At least 20 years have passed since then.
Safety devices like HANS should be allowed during TF in my opinion, cause you also need to check all the mirrors or your sides when you race a really slow car during a race with really slow and really fast cars. So what’s the point of NOT allowing HANS during TF?
Last but not least I do want to mention another topic, you filming and editing. Do you really edit all your videos alone/by yourself? Cause that’s really impressive to me giving the fact that your day also only has 24 hours 😉
And what I really would love to see and HEAR: You and the passenger/owner of the car you‘re driving using a thing called Rode Wireless Go II (or the DJI pendant or Sennheiser or or or), cause sometimes I really struggle to understand what you guys are saying 🥴 (Yes, I‘m old but not that old and for sure not deaf 🤪
Sorry for the long comment, all the best and please y‘all stay safe out there, Philipp
Thanks a lot for sharing, and sorry to hear about the deadly crashes.
As with everything, this is the right step in the right direction. But what is also really important is being able to influence the safety of the Nurb; otherwise, if things move at the same speed as the German bureaucracy, we'll have to wait another lifetime.
Are you allowed to run coolant at the Ring? A check to make sure drivers are only running straight water seems like a good idea . Here in US most track’s don’t allow coolant. Even drag strips. I don’t know how you’d enforce this but here your banned from track if running coolant. Seems like a good idea?
Since the Nordschleife legally isn't a racetrack most of the time, you can't really enforce anything as long as the cars are street legal. Could be a different case on days where the ring is closed to the public, such as track days, races or time attack
As far as safety, its definitely a good idea. But it's just not feasible for many reasons. Enforcing that rule would alienate a massive amount of paying customers from the ring. I mean, you can't expect a guy with something like a 2024 Bentley GT to drain his entire cooling system and swap it out for water just to go do a couple laps. Not to mention the fact that it would be a nightmare to enforce. On top of that. It would create the scenario where you drive your car to the ring. Only to get there and have to let your car sit for X amount of time before your engine is cool enough so your coolant reservoir or radiator can be checked for water.
And most tracks in the US, whether its a road course or a drag strip does allow coolant. It just depends whether it's a test and tune night/open track day or a sanctioned event.
@@FastPaull also there will be overheating problems for some cars and a lot of need the fluid mix.
@@FastPaull Don't forget the Eifel weather. It might snow in the summer. 🤣
@@sdidriver4847 water is (by far) the best coolant available for any engine. It cools better than all the other coolants on the market.
But it’s very bad for the longevity of the engine and it can’t handle freezing temperatures when not running. We use coolant for protection of the engine, not for the cooling capacity. Overheating because the use of water is definitely not a thing.
Denny Fitch, one of the pilot's instrumental in anyone surviving the United Flight 232 crash said:
"What makes you so sure you are making it home tonght?"
He was a major captain for an US airline, a very safe environment, but at 4 o clock he was trying to stay alive.
Things can turn pretty quick, and often we can't really avoid it either.
9:55 Pickups react differently to crash situations. They don't have (or have very little) crumple zones, this puts lots of deceleration force on the passengers when a collision occurs... Also hits harder on the other end
And SUVs are basically specifically designed by the car industry to pretend they aren't like pickups. Which is why they get through these sorta checks (or just around, through exceptions).
This is an outright lie. Trucks have had crumple zones for decades the only real exception to this are cab over trucks which I don't think are a common sight on any race track.
@@Hybris51129Thank you for this. Was just about to launch into my own rant.
Much love from Kenya here. Ever since the red "cup2" Porsche you drove, I have been thinking about the safety, since you're inviting thoughts let me share.
- does the nurburg ring have to stay "public road"? If it can be closed or booked, can't it be structured in paper, a way for a union of you guys and regulars to book the track everyday indefinitely, and then sublet back the public so normal operations can be held, but with track rules?
It's already considerably expensive to get onto the track, and the extra hassle of being inspected and opportunity for training is nothing compared to knowing you're having a safer experience, and the possibility of zero deaths.
This would allow for the helmet system you mentioned and car inspection (on the gp track possibly)
- I can't imagine the motorbikes like being in the track next to "cagers", esp because of the difference in cornering lines, they can't get the best use of the space and are compromising enjoyment, not even safety.
-watching your videos over the years, feels like the track is closed randomly throughout the day, and some time theres massive traffic jams on the way there.
What if there was depending on population, hours for different classes? Maybe 3 hour windows. One for bikes, then another for sub 130kph, then another for up to 230kph, then a "gt3" category. The hours could be flexible depending on population of previous class sessions and the timetable available online.
A very long lasting dream of mine has been to bring my pickup truck, so guess its time to wake up,😅
1. Yes it does, it's a private road during track days. If you want to chase laptimes, then please book a trackday on the Nordschleife.
2. Well we mix, and most of the times it goes well. Bikers do drive different lines and they don't expect cars to be that fast on the track. Most of the times it goes well, but sometimes your stuck for 4km behind a biker that does not care about traffic behind him.
3. Yes that's correct. The track is closed sometimes during the day for cleaning up accidents, and during high times we have traffic jams from the track all the way up to the ED.
Splitting the traffic (cars and bikes) would be my preference as well. During the week the sessions are too short to do this, but in the weekends there is room to have 'biker-only' hours. I don't drive a bike on the track anymore, just a car, but I would be in favor of doing it like this.
Trackday class system.
Mon - Wed = under 420hp.
Thu = Bikes.
Fri - Sat = Unlimited.
Sun = Mixed.
Hans should be allowed. Driver courses in etiquette (short and sweet) should be mandatory. Maybe sticker should be mandatory on car if driver has less then 50 laps, like L plate.
this, but make it HP/ton instead of pure HP
vielen dank Misha für dieses video & diese gute erklärung aller umstände usw. ... 💜 knuddel 💜
Big thanks for this vid and your explain of the crash & the safty of nürbr. ... stay healty & big hug
I think the theory behind the "pickup truck" rule MAY(I cannot emphasize enough that this is a THEORY and NOT an official word from 'Ring staff) be that they usually ride taller than comparable SUVs but also critically, have higher riding rear bumpers than most contemporary SUVs meaning a higher likelihood of a vehicle "submarining" below a vehicle like that's undercarriage.
Now most cars are more than capable of keeping the driver/passenger cell intact in a rollover accident(some even without the addition of roll cages/bars) but add even a 1.5 ton truck to that workload and suddenly that windshield frame doesn't look so stout. Add to that those trucks usually being outfitted with towing implements and you begin to see the series of unfortunate events that might unfold.
Personally, I think the commercial vans and heavy SUVs are okay? As they are usually quite "low" riding by comparison. But the "pick up truck" change I definitely agree with.
Regarding the ban on pickup trucks, most of them are driven as RWD and have nothing in the bed. So you have a high center of gravity, a light rear end, and a RWD set up. Its a recipe for disaster for a track day. SUV's and Trucks are pretty rare to see at a track day in the US despite their popularity.
You are 100% correct, you know best. Veel groeten Misha, grote fan.
I just flat out think certain cars, Especially tiny open top cars like Miata's shouldn't even be allowed on the track unless it has a full certified cage. FIA Seats/Belts and all the accompanying safety gear to go with that. Granted, even cages aren't a guarantee that you'll survive some type of crazy accident.
I disagree - these kinds of cars are made for enthusiast driving. It would be better to make sure that vehicles that are dangerous to them ( pickup trucks, lorries) are not allowed or must be safe for small cars to crash into.
Thanks a lot Misha ! To be so honest and tell what to be tell.
its kinda crazy.. the Nordschleife is my favorite track and im basically only watching racing on this track.
despite that, im now uncovering many crashes in the last 9 years that i never knew happened.
i never knew of the Miata pile up crash. And i now also read that in 2024 a motorbiker from new zealand died on the track?
I think its not a good thing that the Nordschleife owners are so secretive about this topic.
it kinda gives the vibe that the track isnt that dangerous. And it shows when we look how mostly foreign drivers behave here.
or when we see 2 people on one motorcycle making dangerous decisions.
i mean if even people that are Nordschleife fans for years are uninformed about the crashes, imagine how bad it is for foreign drivers.
it should be more public that this track can be really dangerous. Without showing any victims of course.. but in any way or form people should get more informed about this topic.
i absolutely know that this is the (probabaly) most dangerous and tricky track in the world.. despite that it feels like were getting used to just see all the good and funny things and never any serious things, cause the Nordschleife doesnt even allow ANY crash to be shown on RUclips etc.
its like its hidden from our minds.. atleast thats how i feel, after i heard about the Miata crash. But this needs to be acknowledged.
i would even go as far, as to say that brand new drivers have to hear a short online lecture about the track that also talks about crashes.
with some kind of quiz at the end that they have to solve. Its just a minimal safety feature but its better then nothing.
I think the speed issue is related to the end of the straights/straighter sections where speed differentials will be highest. I wouldn't be surprised if somebody organises a 'slower car trackday' where vehicles that can exceed 130km/h or 140km/h are banned, so that Beetle owners get their fix.
There's no way that an AI camera system can spot that your Porsches radiator expansion bottle has overflowed & contaminated the track, the best it can do is detect that the car behind you ended up with the back end stepping out dramatically, & _deduce_ that something is down. It follows that you can still be first on scene at a coolant spill without warning, & you ending up in the barriers is what tells the AI that there is a problem.
I'm afraid Misha is part of th safety problem. Driving too hard, leaving too little margin, hence frequent accidents. There's a high probability that Misha's Ring "career" is going to end in tragedy the way he drives.
You got any videos to show us how to drive the Ring more safely?
@@NickV1978 It's not complicated. Just drive with more margin than Misha. He has close calls in a high proportion of videos, plus numerous crashes. His reputation among locals at the ring is not positive. This isn't about whether he's quick, it's about whether he's safe. The locals / regulars as opposed to internet fanboys think he is not safe and have tired of him. It's obvious to anyone well informed from his videos he's not safe. He is at very high risk of harming someone. Or worse. It will likely end badly for him and sadly for someone else.
@@flat6croc I've got to disagree with you on this; no doubt you're entitled to your opinion but this was never about saying that Misha is quick, or holding him in a high regard as a result. Safety is always a top priority but if you expect a 100% record then you're going to be left wanting. The Nurburgring is a race track and is by its very nature an extremely dangerous place with over 200 recorded deaths over the years. I don't know if you have any experience driving this circuit (or any others) but I do and I can tell you that Misha, IMO, is definitely one of the safer drivers out there. Consider the years he has lived there, the thousands of laps he has under his belt, the range of cars he has driven (and raced), the people who lend their cars to him and also pay him to take others on Taxi Laps in their own cars (all of the Apex Cars and, more recently, Trackspeeds' GT3 spring to mind) and, with due respect, I think you may need to re-direct your frustrations towards those who deserve to hear them.
@@NickV1978 Nobody said anything about a flawless 100% record being required. That's a bullshit comment to make, I implied nothing of the sort, not even remotely. Misha isn't safe and the locals / regulars don't view him as safe. He pushes too hard and has too many accidents and is constantly and needlessly having very close calls. Like I said, the odds are high it's all going to end in tragedy. The fact that loads of fan boys queue up to risk their cars and their health with Misha proves nothing. Popularity is not and never has been well correlated with merit. I suggest you do some research into how Misha is viewed by the experienced Ring community as opposed to the RUclips teenybopper mouth-breathing massive. He is not held in high regard and for good and obvious reasons.
@@flat6croc No need to get angry, I was trying to have a respectful discussion. You do you mate. 👍
An MX-5 or any other roadster is not the safest vehicle on the road / track in any crash situation.
I drive them (NC/ND) now for 10 years as a hobby car on sunny days / trips so I realize it very well @anticipation. Still like driving the twoseater though!
Back in the 70's 80's and 90's, I only ever rode bikes on the Nordschleife (without my wife knowing). And I totally agree with different times for bikes and cars. I have lost count of the number of times cars have pulled across on me while I was overtaking them.
Sorry for your loss and thank you for addressing safety contradictions. Out of curiosity how does the no cars under 130km/hr work if they are modified to the T for performance?
Are any modified cars liable be slower than their manufacturer specification? They are allowed to be faster.
My recommendation would be to obligate linking your account to the track and only allowing the barrier to open when you have watched a short safety instruction video. Maybe even make it mandatory to watch it every year since each season there are changes to the track or changes in the rules.
They already have the accountsystem, so it shouldn't be a very difficult thing to do and I think that would dramatically increase the awareness of newcommers on the track. I see often people not checking their mirrors or not knowing you have to stay right if a faster vehicle approaches. For newcomers it's also more reasuring knowing what is to be expected of them.
I'm a biker myself. I would love to ride the Nurburgring on my bike one day, as I did with my car 2 years ago. But I really do not want to get wedged between some cars. It would be awesome having a dedicated Touristenfahrten slot only for bikers. But I guess there is simply not much demand for that.
There is also another aspect about motorcycles, which makes it extremly dangerous: Mirrors. The mirrors tend to vibrate at a certain speed, which makes it extremly difficult to watch them and the cars behind you. Most of the time, I can see that there is someone behind me when riding the autobahn at higher speeds, but only if they have their headlights on. There are ways to reduce the vibration, but as with everything in motorcycles, it's up to you to come up with a solution to that problem.
Great video very sad what happened to Nikola Koprivica ☹ Maybe an online quick non complicated brief online test should be done before you can book so you know track basics and what to do in an emergency situation on the Nürburgring.. It would be boring for pros but for the amateur drivers they it will become second nature.. Possible track marshall volunteers I'm sure loads of the car community would enjoy helping with the safety of others in their spare time.. Different car and bike category sessions even horsepower or vehicle so bikes only and cars only... Keep up the great videos Misha 👍👍 Awesome!! Watching from England
Any vehicle rated for towing significant weight (trucks/SUV’s) has a modified rear structure to reinforce it for towing. My 2018 Grand Cherokee (rated for towing 7200lbs) was rear ended by a Sienna van. The van was totaled while my Jeep suffered only minor damage. Road America here in US does not allow trucks or SUV’s on track days.
Hi, es gab mal eine Zeit wo ein " marshall service " von Auto - und Motorradfahrern oder auch Zuschauern organisiert wurde. Da wurden privat gelbe Flaggen hergestellt und verteilt, da hatte jeder der wollte Warnmaterial im Auto oder am Motorrad. Das wurde wohl auch mit einer Reduzierung des Jahreskartenpreises belohnt. Aus irgendwelchen Gründen wurde das dann nach und nach verboten. Sei es der Missbrauch der reduzierten Jahreskarte oder auch versicherungstechnische Gründe das keiner mehr die Strecke betreten durfte. Bis dahin waren zuverlässig immer mehrere mit gelben Flaggen unterwegs die sofort warnen konnten. Das wurde dann irgendwann abgeschafft oder verboten und seit dem gibt es nur die offiziellen marshalls die ihre Runden drehen und inzwischen die festen Posten und die Leuchttafeln. Da es immer jemanden gibt der irgendwas besser weiss wird es Vor - und Rückschritte geben. Die einzige Sicherheit wird am Ende sein die Touristenfahrten einzustellen und nur noch geführte Fahrten oder Lehrgänge anzubieten.